Scientology cult does NOT have millions of members
Warrior
In article <691rhd$nt2$1...@news.net-quest.com>, J.M. Ivler <iv...@net-quest.com>
>wrote:
>
>Not me. My wife. She has heard nothing about this until the 60 minutes
>episode. Then this tonite.
>
>After the segment went to commercial she turned to me and asked me a few
>questions.
>
>- Honey, that guy they interviewed, was he high up in the Church?
>* Yep. It was sort of like listening to a Biship in your faith.
>- The guy never answered a single question he was asked, he ranted and
> raved about psychologists, but the question was about getting that dying
> girl medical help. Is he nuts?
>* I don't know. I'm not qualified to make that medical opinion.
>- Seriously, this wasn't some sort of sick joke, was it?
>* Nope. that appears to be the real person.
>- First the stuff from the space opera, now this fruitcake, is anyone
> really involved with this nonsense?
>* Yep. According to the Church over 8 million people.
>- You're kidding, right?
>* Nope.
>- 8 million people follow this 'leader'?
>* That's what they claim.
>- Are they all nuts?
>* Honey, I can't make that statement. I would like to state that I have
> the opinion that the 8 million number is bogus and that the number of
> people involved is far less. In addition, you aren't told the space opera
> story as a fact until you have dumped a great deal of money into it, so I
> would say that less than 20% of all active Church of Scientology members
> are aware of this part of the belief system. In total, if you had 50,000
> active members, which I feel is about right, than less than 10,000 are in
> on the space opera.
>- but most know about the nut case that was on TV?
>* yep, in fact the stuff he read at the begining of the interview is right
> from the magazine that they just published this week...
I have to comment on your and your wife's observations.
You are correct that the 8 million number of members is bogus. Heber
is lying, and he knows it. The cult (and its propaganda mouthpiece
Heber) only states that Scientology has 8 million members in an
attempt to portray Scientology as an acceptable new "religious"
movement. The lie is repeated in order to pretend that Scientology
is an expanding and credible organization.
Your figures about the real number of Scientologists are pretty
accurate. Since Hubbard founded Scientology over 44 years ago,
there have been approximately 50,000 individuals who have been
certified as "Clear", and more than half of those are no longer
active in Scientology. I am one of the "Clears" no longer active.
In case anyone wonders where I got these figures, I will tell
you... The last position I held during my years in Scientology's
Sea Organization was Computer I/C and Address Officer. I was in
charge of maintaining Scientology's mailing list for one of its
so-called "advanced organizations". The figures are from Scientology
itself. This is how I know the "8 million" membership number to
be a lie.
Previous to holding the Computer I/C position, I held the post of
Financial Planning Chairman and Treasury Secretary for the same
Sea Org "advanced organization". From that position, I was
responsible for ensuring funds were allocated for Scientology's
weekly and monthly bulk mail promotional pieces. One of the cult's
main promo pieces is The Auditor Magazine. It is supposed to be a
monthly publication, according to Hubbard's policies in the OEC
Volume II (exact reference available from me upon demand). At
no time during my eight years in the "advanced organization" did
The Auditor Magazine get sent to more than 250,000 individuals.
Out of the entire mailing list of 250,000 individuals, approximately
180,000 of those had simply bought a book (usually Dianetics) or
had done an introductory (also called a "basic") course in Scientology.
Approximately 45,000 individuals had completed a major course and/or
"auditing" level. The rest of the names (25,000) consisted of
individuals whose current address was unknown, or who had died,
been declared "SP" (suppressive person), legal threats, "PTS"
(potential trouble source), or who had asked to be removed from
the mailing list.
Since he has been living the cultie life for close to 30 years,
Heber has no idea how nuts he looks to those outside of his cult
(and even to some Scientologists in good standing).
Thanks to many good people like Robert Vaughn Young, reporters
are now hip to the fact that Scientologists are _expert_ at
the art of "Q&Aing" (Scienospeak for failing to answer questions),
and many reporters know to simply repeat their questions until
an answer is given or the cultie makes a fool of himself/herself
by failing to answer the question.
Watch other top Scienoculties like Laura Vaughn, Eliott Abelson,
David Miscavige, Warren McShane and Norman Starkey avoid giving
answers to direct questions. Of course, they do this because
Scientology executives who have contact with the media and
attorneys are extensively drilled in avoidance and diversionary
techniques. The trouble is, the world is wising up to Hubbard's
mandated policies towards people who ask embarassing questions!
When one considers that fewer than ten thousand people have
studied the "advanced teachings" (covering body thetans, Xenu
and other science fiction crap), and even fewer accept Hubbard's
sci-fi cosmology after studying it, one will realize that ten
thousand deluded souls out of a planet populated by roughly six
billion people is a VERY insignificant percentage! Do the math;
10,000 divided by 6,000,000,000 equals a ratio of 1 in 600,000,
or .0000016!
Is it any wonder that Heber (one of the 10,000) was appointed
as a spokesman for the cult?
Just putting it all in perspective...
Warrior <war...@electrotex.com>
read http://www.xenu.net
and
http://www.entheta.net/entheta/1stpersn/warrior/
and
http://berlin.snafu.de/~tilman
Inducto
To add to Warrior's personal experience, here are some of my notes on this
interesting matter:
CoS' promoters are very good at making attractive claims, and perhaps one of
the best ways to demonstrate their willingness to glibly overstate and
misrepresent themselves on even the most fundamental matters is to look at
their most basic data, membership numbers. It's also interesting to note that
in the section of "Demographic and Statistical Facts About Scientology" on
their own web site at
http://www.scientology.org/p_jpg/heritage/heriteng/dmografx/27-idx.htm, the
numbers on the charts end between 1990 and 1995, the period when ex-members and
critics say they began a precipitous decline. Can a "church" that is
apparently outrageously dishonest about even its most basic facts, be trusted
to provide any reliable information about itself?
* CoS' claims are contradicted by everything from polls and censuses to
personal testimony and information in their own internal publications, not to
mention often contradicting themselves. All indications are that there are
fewer than 100,000 active members, and that the 8 million figure is a public
relations exaggeration.
* There simply do not exist enough, or large enough, locations to serve a
significant membership. There are only a few hundred churches and missions
listed by CoS worldwide, fewer than a hundred in the US, and many of the
missions turn out to be mail drops and members' homes or businesses; many of
the churches and missions have closed or moved to smaller quarters in recent
years. They do not have nearly the presence in physical facilities or members
that religious groups in the range of 10 million members have, such as the LDS
(Mormons).
* Reports indicate that many churches and missions pay staff almost nothing and
let them sleep on the premises, and many staff members have spouses who are the
family breadwinner, allowing them to survive on just a handful of members
taking expensive courses and services.
* Even CoS' own numbers don't hold up to basic analysis. For instance, their
most optimistic figure of of about 3,000 "groups" leaves an impossible average
of over 3,000 "parishioners" per location. They claim to deliver over a
million hours a year of their most basic service, "auditing", but it is
normally done in 10-hour "blocks", not enough to service more than 100,000
active members.
* The number of people who have reached the first level of "clear" in their
"processing" is only around 50,000 total in the history of Dianetics and
Scientology, and nearly half of those were in the 1970s; currently the number
is going up by only about 1,000 per year.
* Claims of actual shrinkage in CoS' membership in recent years reported by
former members, is supported by the reduction in the number of churches and
missions actually open, a reduction in the number of organizations and churches
claiming "St. Hill Size", and CoS' evasiveness about providing verified
statistics -- or even statistics they used to provide, that might show decline
over time. CoS' statistics now consist of things that are tangential, like the
number of countries that they operate in, or the number of groups that they've
formed.
* Even taken at face value, the growth in membership to the 70s from the 90s
only keeps pace with worldwide population growth in that period, leaving CoS'
percentage of the population claimed as members the same
Below is a history of CoS' membership claims, and some external data and
analysis.
1977 CLAIM
==========
5,437,000 -- number of members given in the 1977 edition of "What Is
Scientology?"
1991 CLAIMS
===========
"Scientology now boasts of more than 8 million members in 71 countries"
Reported in the Hemet News 1991 series on Scientology, part 5
"Scientology has grown in 40 years to encompass 8 million members..."
Reported in USA Today 8/2/91
(above figures presumably provided to the press by CoS PR functionaries, but
material showing the claim made directly by CoS was not available)
1991 INDEPENDENT SURVEY
=======================
"45,000 people claim Scientology", 1991 National Survey of Religious
Identification as reported in USA Today Nov. 18 '93
1992 CLAIM
==========
"Eight million people, yes, over a period of the last- since 1954." -- CoS
International President Heber Jentzsch on ABC Nightline, Feb. 14, 1992,
answering interviewer Forrest Sawyers's questions "How do you get to call them
members?.....They took one course, maybe?"
1994 CLAIMS
===========
"Currently has between 8 and 10 million members worldwide and is growing very
fast" CoS leader David Miscavige to Wolf Lotter from Austrian Profil-Magazine,
December 1994
"This year, as we celebrate the 40th anniversary of the Church of Scientology,
our religion spans the globe. Today, nearly 13,000 church staff members
minister the religion to some 8 million members, through 2,318 churches,
missions and related organizations in 107 countries and in 31 languages. Each
year, approximately 500,000 people participate in Scientology services for the
first time in one of our churches or missions." -- Rev. Heber Jentzsch, CoS
Int'l President
1997 CLAIMS
===========
"The world’s fastest growing religion" -- Main page at www.scientology.org,
1997, claim also frequently repeated by members and spokespersons.
"To the eight million parishioners of the Church of Scientology, Scientology is
their religion" -- (c) 1997 claim at
http://news.scientology.org/ads/iht/ihissu07/ihissu07.htm
"Scientology is an international religion located in more than 120 countries,
with 8-million members" -- From a rebuttal letter to the St. Petersburg (FL)
times entitled "Scientology report continues distortions" by CoS spokesperson
"Rev." Brian Anderson, Vice President CoS of Clearwater, 11/8/97
"If any of the things these people say are true, there would not be 8-million
Scientologists in the world today" -- CoS Office of Special Affairs (OSA)
senior official Mike Rinder commenting on accusations made by former
scientologists at a press conference, Dec. '97
NEW CLAIM?
==========
"John starts mouthing a litany of Scientology wins & successes, about the
10 million (not 8) Scientologists in the world" -- John Carmicheal, CoS "PR man
for the New York City Org" (DSA), as reported by Garry Scarff, early Dec. '97
SOME PERSPECTIVE
================
The Mormon Church (LDS) claims about the same number of members but also has
the much more obvious public profile to prove their stature; they dominate
their spiritual center of Salt Lake City in Nevada, have the large Brigham
Young University system, and have hundreds if not thousands of obvious church
buildings across the US with more around the globe. Here are "Preliminary
membership data estimated to 1 January 1997" from the LDS website at
http://www.lds.org/Global_Media_Guide/Key_Facts_and_Figures.html:
Worldwide: 9,700,000
U.S.: 4,800,000
Number of Church units worldwide (congregations): 23,200
Languages in which the basic Church curriculum text is available: 145
The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ
• 78 million copies published since 1830
• Approximately 4.5 million copies distributed in 1995
• 90 languages in print
CoS, in contrast, claims to have over a thousand "churches, missions, and
groups", yet lists only a few hundred on their web pages (less than a hundred
in the US), many of which turn out not to be active.
THE TRUTH?
==========
"I was one of a few SO staff who worked on the computerization
project which consisted of entering to the mailing list the name
and address of *every* person.....
As I have said before, approximately 10% of the entries on the
mailing list are "UNK" (address unknown). Approximately 180,000
have ONLY read or bought a book, or have done a basic course.
About 40,000 or so have done a "major service" *and* are still
in good standing.
The entire mailing list for all of Canada, the US, Mexico and
Central and South America is only about 250,000 names. Only 15 - 18
percent of these 250,000 names can be considered members....."
-- "Warrior", former CoS certified "address officer", posting to a.r.s. Nov.
'97
"According to FACTNET records, a 1987 internal Church document
indicated less than 50,000 members.
I have personal knowledge that in 1990 the Central Files at the
Flag Service Org (FSO) contained about 40,000 names. Per Church
policy, the names of any person who purchases services at a lower
org are forwarded to the FSO, for inclusion in their central
files. Many of these names were duplicates, the same people with
previous or incorrect addresses. Many had not purchased services
for over ten years, some were deceased."
-- Joe Harrington, former scientologist, posting to a.r.s. Mar. '95
"Therefore we set the 1991 goals as follows:
* Build the membership to 100,000 active members.
.....
* Change the order of magnitude on the Free Membership Program by getting
all new Scientologists signed up as Free Members as soon as they purchase
their frst book or service and increasing this membership to 200,000
members."
-- A 1991 publication for staff members from the IAS (Int'l Assn. of
Scientologists); membership in IAS is a prerequisite for participating in
"church" activities or receiving "services"
"1994 *I* kept the little org open. $12,000+ in donations.
(more than that, I don't have all the receipts) It was after I left
that two different staff members told me I had kept them open that
year.
Once, I'm guessing around 1990, the staff had paychecks of
2-5 thousand each one week. They had sent someone to Flag who had
spent about a million dollars.
Staff pay is typically nothing here, I know because I was on staff
several times. By nothing I mean under $20 per week.....
IOW, it only takes a few, very few live ones to keep the doors open.
Remember, the sea org dudes at the little org sleep in the building
and do not have vehicles. I had/have a breakdown of what it costs to
keep the doors open at the little org, right around $3,200 per month.
Maybe less now as they are down to one single phone line. The big org
owns the building so maybe that is not that expensive to keep open.
Why are there so many females in the orgs? Because their husbands
work Wog jobs to support the families.....
Also, at least here in Vegas, things like toilet paper and coffee are
donated. The org does not pay for them."
-- Ted Mayett, posting to a.r.s. 01/13/98
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