The SeaOrg Sets Sail Again?
H Alan Montgomery
My nephew sent me a writeup on this ship last fall. It
sounded like a great idea. Now I read on Fox at:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,42147,00.html
So I run a Netscape search and ping on:
http://www.freedomship.com/project_updates.htm
It says that they are having their briefings for prospective
clients in Clearwater, FL.
Okay. Am I being paranoid? I mean, this ship is VERY similar to
what LRon was doing back in the late '60's and early '70's.
In the article from Fox, it says that the police to tenent ratio
is 10/1. This sounds AWFUL familiar. Have I missed this in
ARS and someone else has posted about these guys? I mean, are
some or all of the Board of this corporation part of Co$?
Or am I just nuts?
Ralph Hilton
msg <7D4BE27...@vm.tamu.edu>, :
It seems very unlikely that this is a Scientology activity. The CofS has
spent years building the Super Power building. I don't think they have the
resources to build an $8,000,000,000 25 story ship nearly a mile long.
--
Ralph Hilton
http://www.fzint.org/rhilton
Freezone International: http://www.fzint.org
FZAOINT http://www.fzaoint.org
C-Meter: http://www.inquisitive-instruments.co.uk/
Nessie
"Ralph Hilton" <aon.91...@aon.at> schreef in bericht
news:r92c3u0g76sl7t029...@4ax.com...
> F...@vm.tamu.edu (H Alan Montgomery) wrote on Fri, 04 Jan 02 13:31:19 CST
in
> msg <7D4BE27...@vm.tamu.edu>, :
>
> >My nephew sent me a writeup on this ship last fall. It
> >sounded like a great idea. Now I read on Fox at:
> > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,42147,00.html
> >
> >So I run a Netscape search and ping on:
> > http://www.freedomship.com/project_updates.htm
> >
> >It says that they are having their briefings for prospective
> >clients in Clearwater, FL.
> >
> >Okay. Am I being paranoid? I mean, this ship is VERY similar to
> >what LRon was doing back in the late '60's and early '70's.
> >In the article from Fox, it says that the police to tenent ratio
> >is 10/1. This sounds AWFUL familiar. Have I missed this in
> >ARS and someone else has posted about these guys? I mean, are
> >some or all of the Board of this corporation part of Co$?
> >Or am I just nuts?
>
> It seems very unlikely that this is a Scientology activity. The CofS has
> spent years building the Super Power building. I don't think they have the
> resources to build an $8,000,000,000 25 story ship nearly a mile long.
On the contrary, Ralph, it sounds very much like another 'Super
Power' ship instead of a building. The people who want to join
have to pay in advance of course. Whether they will be duped in
the end is still a question, but it sounds like a scam. Whether that
be a Co$, another kind of Slatkin fraud or some Clearwater
(scientology) moron scam.
Just the name 'Freedom Ship' (instead of 'Freewinds') does sound
rather like coming from Co$ or some of their victims.
Nessie.
mimus
They oughta start building-- and "regging" their staff and "publics"
for donations for-- pyramids out at "Gold".
I saw
many people
reduced to
incoherent babbling,
stripping off clothes,
crawling around on the ground,
banging heads, limbs and other body parts
against furniture and walls,
barking,
losing all sense of one's identity
and intense and persistent suicidal ideation.
--Declaration of Andre Tabayoyon
I'm an OT.--Lisa McPherson
If you imagine 40-50 Scientologists
posting on the Internet every few days,
we'll just run the SP's right off the system.
It will be quite simple, actually.
--Elaine Siegel, OSA INT (1996)
Case 5/BTLA/SP1/BAD
KSJ
(And, BTW: Xenu Xenu Xenu!)
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Ralph Hilton
+0100 in msg <3c361167$1...@news2.lightlink.com>, :
>> >Okay. Am I being paranoid? I mean, this ship is VERY similar to
>> >what LRon was doing back in the late '60's and early '70's.
>> >In the article from Fox, it says that the police to tenent ratio
>> >is 10/1. This sounds AWFUL familiar. Have I missed this in
>> >ARS and someone else has posted about these guys? I mean, are
>> >some or all of the Board of this corporation part of Co$?
>> >Or am I just nuts?
>>
>> It seems very unlikely that this is a Scientology activity. The CofS has
>> spent years building the Super Power building. I don't think they have the
>> resources to build an $8,000,000,000 25 story ship nearly a mile long.
>
>On the contrary, Ralph, it sounds very much like another 'Super
>Power' ship instead of a building. The people who want to join
>have to pay in advance of course. Whether they will be duped in
>the end is still a question, but it sounds like a scam. Whether that
>be a Co$, another kind of Slatkin fraud or some Clearwater
>(scientology) moron scam.
I'd entertain the possibility.
http://germany.freedomship.com/Kontakte.htm gives a longer list of contacts
for the project. Perhaps someone with a bit of spare time wants to do a few
searches.
Fred King looks like one that needs more checking but the Scientology Fred
seems to be in Oregon.
Feisty
H Alan Montgomery <F...@vm.tamu.edu> wrote in message news:7D4BE27...@vm.tamu.edu...
>
>
> My nephew sent me a writeup on this ship last fall. It
> sounded like a great idea. Now I read on Fox at:
> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,42147,00.html
>
> So I run a Netscape search and ping on:
> http://www.freedomship.com/project_updates.htm
Looks like a floating investment. I think I'll become an insurance agent
real quick and move to Florida ;)
It is odd that you don't get any info on the builder or person who
was inspired to do this. On the contrary you get pages of many
businesses or vendors and data base info. So that would give you the
impression that this is a "venture."
That phone no. brings up two entities -
Engineering Solutions Inc, (727) 771-7722, 2706 Alt 19, Palm Harbor, FL 34683 Yahoo! Maps
MapQuest
Freedom Ship: City at Sea
... Ship International. Inc. 2706 Alternate 19 North - Suite 104 Palm Harbor, Florida
34683 USA Phone: 727-771-7722 Fax: 727-539-8480 E-mail: in...@freedomship.com ...
www.freedomship.com/contacts/ - 9k - Cached - Similar pages
Extreme HomeExpo luxuries products information wealthy home
... Email - in...@freedomship.com. Palm Harbor FL 34683 727-771-7722.
3, Sharpe. Quality and luxury custom houseboats. ...
www.extremehomeexpo.com/search.asp?txtSearch=6574 - 9k - Cached - Similar pages
--
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Extreme HomeExpo is an exquisitely produced web site for showcasing luxury goods for the
homes of America on the World Wide Web (Internet). We have launched our web site, to
provide our visitors with exclusive listings from the world's best artisans and
manufactures, when only the best in quality and craftsmanship will do.
DEMOGRAPHIC PROFILE
Annual Household Income
$200,000 +
Home Value
$500,000 +
Demographic Area
West - East coast - USA
Gender
70% Female
30% Male
Age
10% under age 35
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Extreme HomeExpo
Virginia Beach, VA. 23454
www.ExtremeHomeExpo.com
757-412-1299 Office hours - 8am- 6pm EST.
In...@extremehomeexpo.com - Office email
--
reality:
http://powerandmotoryacht.about.com/library/weekly/december01/aa120801h.htm
this one's funny:
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:zYs9Nq1mWwgC:www.globalpolicy.org/nations/freedom.htm
++freedom+ship+builders&hl=en
====
Here's some philosophy(?) about things like this: (mentions's the freedomship
in a link) Looks like the next frontier to me (do do de dum de de dum!)
Just think, it could be like a space ship for that matter, to escape the coming
apocalypses (?)
http://2100.org/text_Gibraltar.html.
2100.org
Responsive Super Sculpture: An Macro-engineering Antidote for Unwanted Earth-biosphere
Alterations
Gibraltar Strait Super Dam, robotized Mediterranean Sea layer
Richard Brook Cathcart
GEOGRAPHOS
1608 East Broadway #107
Glendale, California 91205-1524
USA
(818) 246-8422
E-mail: rbcat...@msn.com
Abstract
A gigantic hydroelectric waste-processing facility and storehouse put at an important
ocean gateway has been proposed as a means to fully counteract an existing or impending
threat to Homo sapiens. The "Atlantropa Project" ought to be fostered soon by
UNO-concerted Europe-North Africa geopolicy. Furthermore, by coating a reduced
Mediterranean Sea with mindless, plate-like floating black and white colored robots our
species can controllably change that water surface's albedo. This climate engineering
macroproject is the antidote speculated to be a responsive sculpture.
Introduction
Based on extrapolative geodynamics, Space Age electronic models clue interested persons to
a final far-future Earth-biosphere fate(1). Such calculation, however, may be of little
practical value to living planners; any geodynamical forecast can be invalidated if a
geographically large-scale anthropogenic alteration of the ocean's albedo and mechanical
weakening of the weathering process of a larger-than-today continental area ever occurs.
The profession most likely to be called upon to effect a mitigation of this kind in order
to change a prospective future geophysical reality for mind-endowed organisms is
Macro-engineering(2).
Conservationists have identified the Mediterranean Sea Basin as a "hot-spot", an
Earth-biosphere region wherein exceptional concentrations of endemic plant and animal
species are presently experiencing remarkable loss of habitat(3). Beyond the non-human
losses and exceptional environmental stress, any Earth-biosphere problem mitigation
effort&emdash;Mediterranean Sea Basin macroprojects&emdash;must certainly be approved by
the UNO as well as the most directly affected region's ecosystem-nations. The only proper
geopolitical partnership, an organization for a cooperative international
Macro-engineering effort directing anthropic global change, is for those persons and
places that "win" to fairly and fully compensate those peoples and locales that "lose"
economically(4).
Oneiric Macro-engineering
In 1998 the definitive history of a 1929-48 European plan&emdash;ultimately titled the
"Atlantropa Project"(5) proposal&emdash;to induce a lowering of the Mediterranean Sea's
surface level and to reclaim the Sahara for agriculture and industry was published in the
FRG. That history's author, Wolfgang Voigt, since 1997 a curator and Deputy Director of
the Deutsches Architekture-Museum at Frankfurt am Main, revealed therein the intellectual
roots of this plan, a macroproject which could, if implemented and materialized, be the
largest "ecological architecture"(6) scheme ever, except for that aimed to bring about
Mars' transformation by Terraforming's techniques to make the planet inhabitable.
Dreamed (as an emanation of extra-ordinary desire) by Herman Sorgel (1885-1952) and by his
professional associates at the very time Le Corbusier (1887-1965) unveiled his 1932 "Obus
Plan for Algiers", the "Atlantropa Project" was devised to, in part, develop hydropower
with the powerhouse's head-pond being an inexhaustible source at elevation zero (Earth's
ocean) and the tail-water (the Mediterranean Sea) being a liquid body at a negative level
maintained by seawater's natural evaporation whilst under the pervasive influence of a dry
climate regime. In 1998, I advocated adaptation of the required Strait of Gibraltar Super
Dam (GSSD) to two additional purposes not envisioned by Sorgel: (1) its hydro-electrical
output ought to be used to solidify greenhouse gases (CO2 and CFCs) which cause global
climate change and (2) the GSSD ought to be utilized as a long-term storage locker for
<128 km3 of anthropogenic carbonate rock and other manufactured solids(7). The idea is to
use a renewable energy source (Earth's hydrologic cycle) to restore Earth's ambient
atmosphere, both compositionally and dynamically, to a pre-Industrial Revolution state!
After all necessary atmosphere waste-gas extraction and mineralization operations cease, a
rededicated hydropower production can then be distributed to the European Union and North
Africa via a Mediterranean Power Pool Interconnection. (The Union for the Coordination of
Transmission of Electricity was founded in Frankfurt, FRG, on 1 July 1999.) Meantime,
hydropower will be producible at sites where rivers fall into the Mediterranean Sea and,
possibly, at the Dardanelles or Bosphorus straits using impermanent, bladder or
tension-loaded dams(8).
Creating an artificial compartment in Spaceship Earth's ocean, the GSSD induces the
Mediterranean Sea's level to become lower than its present-day elevation and to resemble
in appearance what it must have been shortly after the last glacial maximum, when
humanity's pre-historic ancestors trod successively different shorelines of a smaller, but
gradually enlarging Mediterranean Sea!(9) As the Gibraltar Strait is a major route for
shipping, the GSSD must be furnished with ship-locks. The same kind of installation must
be emplaced at the Suez Canal. GSSD turbines alone will produce ~12,500 Mwe (or, ~28% of
the European Union's 1998 electricity consumption).
Only the uppermost part of the Earth within, at most, a few tens of kilometers of the
solid crust's interface with the planet's atmosphere, is capable of supporting long-term
stresses over Geological Time(10). However, considering the likely seismic consequences of
a regionalized crust unloading&emdash;hazards such as explosive volcanism(11) and the
rapid release of methane hydrates from sliding ocean floor sediments(12) caused by a
destabilized outer continental shelf (upper slope sediments, tectonic over-steepening of
the margin, relatively high rates of sedimentation, and seismic activity), I recommend an
induced lowering of the isolated Mediterranean Sea of ~50 m only. This task will minimally
require a 50-year period of total Macro-engineering&emdash;that is, wide-spread mechanical
unloading combined with a concentrated point loading of the crust at the GSSD&emdash;in
this Basin that will, obviously, impact all previous geologic hazard assessments(13).
Were this modernized Sorgelian plan implemented it might be worthwhile to zone certain
segments of the emergent continental shelf as "forever non-developable"; thus, humans
would create a new margin of safety for endangered ecosystem-nation infrastructures and
populations&emdash;the equivalent of exclusionary economic development zoning on floodable
river plains! Since only ~3% of the Nile River's flow still reaches the Mediterranean Sea,
virtually all of the non-GSSD hydropower will originate on Europe's strand-sited
facilities(14). New beaches can be technically stabilized(15) and the impact of seawater
drainage from coastal confined alluvial aquifers controlled with freshwater injection well
systems(16). A Mediterranean Sea reduction makes it easier to tap and distribute
freshwater originating in submarine springs such as Lebanon's! (17) The desirable induced
shrinkage of the Mediterranean Sea's volume will spatially enlarge the land area of Libya,
Tunisia and Algeria by an area equivalent to the area added to Italy and Albania combined;
other UNO-recognized territories will benefit similarly, but remarkable less so. However,
there is the unique international problem related to the legal redrawing of the new
continental shelf boundaries; squabbling can be prevented if these borders were
pre-arranged, literally demarcated on the real sea-bed before an early-21st Century
"Atlantropa Project" were ever commenced(18).
A regulated Mediterranean Sea must be compared to an oceanarium (an English language word
first used circa AD 1944) or aquarium (19) wherein nutrient enrichment/depletion and
commercial/sport fishing influence marine ecosystems; as yet, Marine Ecology lacks any
management guidelines for really large and completely unnatural oceanographic units(20).
High-seas fish farming experiments may yet prove the commercial viability of that blooming
industry. Artificial fertilization of the appropriate oceanic regions&emdash;iron pellets
have been experimentally dumped into the topmost 200 m of the ocean penetrated by sunlight
in certain "barren" regions&emdash;seems to be a cost-effective quick partial
technological fix for the Earth-atmosphere's enhanced CO2 gas build-up. Both of these
macroprojects require the perfection of comparable industrial-scale seeding techniques to
economically alter the chemistry of large volumes of seawater and may also have to be
UNO-approved before ever being commercialized.
Gibraltar Strait Super Dam emplacement and operation, ultimately causing a 50 m drop in
level, will "suddenly" bring about a situation for the virtually tide-less Mediterranean
Sea of a Basin-wide seawater still-stand and new erosion base-level for the encircling
strand. Seawater will naturally evaporate to form clouds that will migrate according to
season and daily wind direction. Two connected bodies of seawater, the Black Sea and the
Mediterranean Sea, together equal ~0.0001789% of the Earth-ocean's tonnage; intentional
redistribution of a tiny fraction of that mass is permissible simply because it will have
inconsequential geophysical import for the Chandler wobble(21).
A fateful change in the angle of Earth's orbital axis may have instigated a geophysical
event-process resulting in the Sahara's rapid desertification by an intensified regime of
drying circa 5000-2000 BC(22), which peaked in intensity at ~3500 BC. Unnoted by Martin
Claussen and his colleagues, circa 3000-2500 BC ".the Taurid Complex was producing
phenomenal meteor storms.[in Earth's sky]"(23). Are these two events, together,
responsible for the Sahara's indisputable Holocene desiccation? Extremely hot, even
semi-molten, meteorites may have set alit major vegetation conflagrations, which
subsequently would have altered the Sahara's albedo owing to brush-fire residues (ash) and
smoke-induced haze of long-duration, warming that region faster than otherwise.
A small Mediterranean Sea's usefulness
Sunlight reflectors floating on the world's ocean can also be imagined as an additional
antidote for unwanted global climate change caused by humanity's industrialization 200+
years ago. Long ago self-reproducing, motile solar-powered robots were proposed which
would collect and mass-process particulates suspended in seawater to construct offspring,
and which would themselves be harvested for the various materials from which they were
auto-created(24). Might not such near-term future robots also change usefully the lowered
Mediterranean Sea's albedo? If monolayer-induced albedo organizations are feasible, then
Homo sapiens could tailor the Mediterranean Sea's color or color pattern to suit whatever
modified Mediterranean Climate Type the region's UNO-advised managers judge desirable
insofar as incident sunshine was a major contributing factor; in other words, a
grand-scale active and reactive form of Georges Seurat's "Pointillism" commanded by a
critical mass of macro-engineers, who will at that time be veritable dreaming and action
Amphions! Such less-than-simple-minded embodiments of a responsive sculpture, if properly
distributed, would not have the effect of layer-darkening the Mediterranean Sea's
uppermost water volume. This mindless robotic carpet will only shade the shallow zone
sea-bottom close to the shoreline, and only dim the natural light normally penetrating the
seawater's upper 100 m. The carpet's components will be capable of being pushed by
transiting oceanic shipping of all types&emdash;that is, able to survive collisions with
floating machines proceeding at <30 knots&emdash;then swiftly recover positions to reform
the carpet in the diminishing wake of ships and boats(25). (Elementary auto-repairs
probably could be programmed and done by slightly damaged robots, or some cannibalization
might take place also.) Aside from a stirring effect, traveling hovercraft&emdash;invented
and tested first in 1959 by Christopher Cockerell (1911-99)&emdash;wont muss the "carpet"
hardly at all whatever their passage speed!
A "checker-boarded" Mediterranean Sea would tend to promote convection because if the
albedo of that compartmentalized fluid's surface is reduced in some regions (so that less
solar energy is reflected back to the local sky), then the conversion of the energy at the
surface would raise the temperature at its surface (thus increasing the radiation and
evaporation) from the darkened superficial regions of the Mediterranean Sea, as well as
heating the adjacent air by conduction and convection. By changing the thermal
conductivity or heat capacity of the Mediterranean Sea's topmost salt-water layer, or
both, or its sea-water content available for evaporation, the surface layer would be
affected, and thus, the outgoing radiation(26).
A self-replicating mindless robot(27) monolayered Mediterranean Sea-Black
Sea -approximately 0.8% of Earth's oceanic area- could be harnessed to roughly "fine-tune"
that closed-off segment's sea-level and its internal [underwater] hydro-climates while
functioning as a blanket-like barrier beneath a modified Mediterranean Climate Type! To
off-set global warming stimulated by a doubling of the atmosphere's content of carbon
dioxide gas, ~10% of the Earth-ocean would have to be colored white by a contiguous patch
of bobbing dumb robots having an anti-beaching capability; each plate-like operational
pollution-free machine must be painted with Teflon, a coating available only since 1960,
to prevent the growth of reflectivity-degrading organisms on the outside of a
seawater-immersed water-tight hull [biological fouling]. The coefficient of heat
transmission of hollow glass tile filled with air&emdash;the nearest I can come at this
time to accurately estimating an important physical property of these postulated future
robots&emdash;ranges from 0.48 to 0.60. J.B.S. Haldane (1892-1964), in Daedalus, or
Science and the Future (1923), foresaw Earth's ocean turned the color purple after a
cultivated alga fertilized by artificial substances was introduced to increase Homo
sapiens-harvested fish stocks! Floating artificial living plants, as proposed by Edward
Forrest Moore (born 1925) in 1956, could detoxify polluted seawater; only ~3% of the
sunlight impinging a natural green plant is actually stored as chemical fuel within the
organism; by contrast, some miniscule non-living devices that convert solar energy into
usable energy have theoretical maximum efficiencies of >30%. Maintenance-worker housing
for humans can be safely floated on the Mediterranean Sea(28) and/or securely affixed to
the new beaches(29).
Jean Meeus(30) calculated the time that must elapse for every place in the Earth-biosphere
to experience a total eclipse of the Sun; for sure, a total eclipse would occur at least
once every 375 years at the Gibraltar Strait. Such shadowing has measurably decreased the
air's temperature for the few seconds that darkness prevails during recent eclipses. But,
when the Mediterranean Sea's water surface is blackened or whitened by robots the effect
will differ markedly as sunlight will still impinge the surface! The Dead Sea is
ordinarily transparent to sunshine. However, on many recorded occasions, its uppermost
water layer has become milk-white owing to the presence in great quantity of fine
aragonite (CaCO3) crystals(31). Unfortunately, I know of no data recording the
reflectivity of this geographically large and whitened body of brine and, more
importantly, what the effect on local air temperatures was.
Is Visionary Macro-engineering necessary?
An idea from Biology, called the "Law of Constant Extinction", conceived by Leigh Van
Valen (born 1935), alleges the evolutionary advance of one species represents a
deterioration of the Earth-biosphere for all other species, imposing selective stresses on
those species to advance just to keep up with the leading species(32).
Macro-engineering&emdash;underpinned by accepted geoscience data and
theory&emdash;espouses the idea that Homo sapiens is the only species that is equipped
with spatially (geographically and oceanographically) large-scale Earth feature(33)
changing technologies, which is certainly pressuring other living biosphere-confined
organisms, especially plants(34). (In Macro-engineering's parlance, humanity's
infrastructure is the equivalent of the black and white flowers in J.E. Lovelock's famous
"Daisyworld" computer simulation.) I hope that Pliny (23-79 AD), writing in his Historia
Naturalis (at II.8) is correct: "There is always something new out of Africa"! (35)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
footnotes :
1 S. Franck et al., "Reduction of biosphere life span as a consequence of geodynamics",
Tellus 52B: 94-107 (February 2000).
2 Howard Herzog et al., "Capturing Greenhouse Gases", Scientific American 282: 72-79
(February 2000). [A thorough review of climate engineering proposals, compiled by Ben
Matthews and current to November 1996, can be located at >>
http://www.chooseclimate.org/cleng/ <<.]
3 N. Meyers et al., "Biodiversity hotspots for conservation priorities", Nature 403:
853-858 (24 February 2000).
4 M.L. Weitzman, "Why the Far-Distant Future Should Be Discounted at Its Lowest Possible
Rate", Journal of Environmental Economics and Management 36: 201-208 (1998).
5 H. Petroski, "Engineers' Dreams", American Scientist 85: 310-313 (July-August 1997).
6 Mark A. Davis, "'Restoration'&emdash;A Misnomer?", Science 287: 1203 (18 February 2000).
[For a resume of recent small-scale ideas concerning the geographical relationship between
environment and sculpture, see: Sculpture 19 (#2), March 2000.]
7 R.B. Cathcart, "Land Art as global warming or cooling antidote", Speculations in Science
and Technology 21: 65-72 (June 1998).
8 M. Astradi et al., "The role of straits and channels in understanding the
characteristics of Mediterranean circulation", Progress in Oceanography 44: 65-108 (1999).
9 K. Lambeck and E. Bard, "Sea-level change along the French Mediterranean coast for the
past 30,000 years", Earth and Planetary Science Letters 175: 203-222 (15 February 2000).
10 David B. Prior and James R. Hooper, "Sea floor engineering geomorphology: recent
achievements and future directions", Geomorphology 31: 411-439 (15 December 1999).
11 W.J. McGuire, "Correlation between rate of sea-level change and frequency of explosive
volcanism in the Mediterranean Sea", Nature 389: 473-476 (2 October 1997).
12 R.G. Rothwell, "Low-sea-level emplacement of a very large Late Pleistocene
'megaturbidite' in the western Mediterranean Sea", Nature 392: 377-380 (26 March 1998).
13 A. Palumbo, "The activity of Vesuvius in the next millennium", Journal of Volcanology
and Geothermal Research 88: 125-129 (January 1999).
14 M. Sultan et al., "Monitoring the Urbanization of the Nile Delta, Egypt", Ambio:
Journal of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences 28: 628-631 (November 1999).
15 J.M. Parks, "Beachface dewatering: A new approach to beach stabilization", The Compass
of Sigma Gamma Epsilon 66: 65-72 (Winter 1989).
16 A. Mahesha, "Control of seawater intrusions through injection-extraction well system",
ASCE Journal of Irrigation and Drainage Engineering 122: 314-317 (September/October 1998).
17 J. Ghannam et al., "A Profile of the Submarine Springs in Lebanon as Potential Water
Resource", IWRA Water International 23: 278-286 (December 1998).
18 See: August 1995 "Cites marines" issue of La Houille Blanche: Revue International de
l'Eau ( pages 37-68).
19 L. Bruce Jones, "The Emerging Undersea Leisure Industry", Sea Technology 34: 37-42
(February 1993).
20 F. Micheli, "Eutrophication, Fisheries, and Consumer-Resource Dynamics in Marine
Pelagic Ecosystems", Science 285: 1396-1398 (27 August 1999).
21 S.L. Marcus, "Detection and Modeling of Non-tidal Oceanic Effects on Earth's Rotation
Time", Science 281: 1656-1659 (1998).
22 M. Claussen et al., "Simulation of an abrupt change in Saharan vegetation in the
mid-Holocene', Geophysical Research Letters 26: 2037-2040 (15 July 1999).
23 D. Steel, Rogue Asteroids and Doomsday Comets: The Search for the Million Megaton
Menace That Threatens Life on Earth (1995, John Wiley & Sons, NY) page 149.
24 E.F. Moore, "Artificial Living Plants", Scientific American 195: 118-125 (1956).
25 By the end of the first decade of the 21st Century, the 1.3 km-long by 240 m-wide "city
at sea" named "Freedom" may be plying a route which includes the Mediterranean Sea: >>
http://freedomship.com <<.
26 F.J. Millero, "The Thermodynamics of Seawater at One Atmosphere", American Journal of
Science 276: 1035-1077 (1976).
27 M. Sipper, "Fifty Years of Research on Self-Replication", Artificial Life 4: 237-257
(1998).
28 B.P. Kunz, "Open-ocean, Air-supported, Stable Platforms", Sea Technology 36: 47-50
(1995).
29 H.H. Stevens, "A Housing System Proposal", Speculations in Science and Technology 6:
241-250 (1983).
30 J. Meeus, "Shadow Painting the Globe", Sky &b Telescope (August 1999), pages 69-71.
31 M.R. Block, "Dead Sea Whiteness and Its Origin", The Israel Academy of Sciences and
Humanities Proceedings Section of Sciences No. 19 (1980) 7 pages.
32 L.V. Valen, "A New Evolutionary Law", Evolutionary Theory 1: 1-30 (1974).
33 See: Johann H. Jungclaus and George L. Mellor, "A three-dimensional model study of the
Mediterranean outflow", Journal of Marine Systems 24: 41-66 (February 2000).
34 Alexandre Meinesz, Killer Algae: The True Tale of a Biological Invsion (1999,
University of Chicago Press, Chicago) 360 pages.
35 At the moment [29 May 2000], Dr. Viorel Badescu of the Candida Oancea Institue of Solar
Energy (founded 1997) situated in the Polytechnic University of Bucharest, Romania and I
are devising a macroproject plan to enshroud 50% of North Africa's Sahara with an inflated
structure. Computer modeling has been done already and desert reclamation seems doable.
Readers may wish to go to >> http://www.birdair.com << for up-to-date data on tensioned
membrane and inflated buildings.
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Richard Brook Cathcart biography
Experience
Founded GEOGRAPHOS in 1969. Participated in Howard Jarvis' Proposition 13 tax revolt in
1978 and from 1978 to present a real estate advisor to Kaplanis & Grimm (Los Angeles, CA).
Born 23 November 1943.
Publications
Viorel Badescu and Richard B. Cathcart : Journal of the British Interplanetary Society 53:
297-306 (September-October 2000). "Stellar Engines for Kardashev's Type II Civilization",
Journal of the British Interplanetary Society (2000). [with Viorel Badescu]
"Tibetan power: A unique hydro-electric macroproject servicing India and China", Current
Science 77: 854-855 (10 October 1999). [India]
"Land Art as global warming or cooling antidote", Speculations in Science and Technology:
An International Journal for Innovation and Creativity 21: 65-72 (1998).
"Taming Mars with a Tent and a Tunnel: Creation of a Biosphere-City", SST 21: 117-131
(1998).
"Greenhouse atmospherics: Mega-deaths or Macro-engineering?" SST 20: 17-20 (1997).
"Seeing is Believing: Planetographic Data Display on a Spherical TV", JBIS 50: 103-104
(1997).
"Gauthier's 'Linear City'", Environmental Conservation: An International Journal of
Environmental Science 23: 286 (1996).
"Mitigative Anthropogeomorphology: a revived 'plan' for the Mediterranean Sea Basin and
the Sahara", Terra Nova: The European Journal of Geosciences 7: 636-640 (1995).
"Macro-engineering and terraforming: building modernized and additional functional
regions", SST 14: 34-40 (1991).
"Is the Trans-Channel Icebridge a viable alternative to the Channel Tunnel?" SST 10: 63-65
(1987).
"Improving the status of Rodoman's electronic geography proposal", SST 9: 37-39 (1986).
"What if We Lowered the Mediterranean Sea?" SST 8: 7-15 (1985).
"Macro-engineering Transformation of the Mediterranean Sea and Africa", World Futures 19:
111-121 (1983).
"Mediterranean Basin-Sahara Reclamation", SST 6: 150-152 (1983).
"A Megastructural End to Geologic Time", JBIS 36: 291-297 (1983).
"Radioactive Waste Element Liquefying Device for Geologic Fault Fusion", SST 4: 103-104
(1981).
"How a Global Warming Could Change the Geographical Future", The Futurist: a journal of
forecasts, trends and ideas about the future 14: 28 (October 1980).
"Meteorite Mining", Future Life #27 (June 1981), page 13.
"On the road to Antarctica", Future Life #23 (December 1980), page 13 .
Essay-bibliographies
[The following fourteen titles are lengthy reports, all published by Vance Bibliographies,
P.O. Box 229, Monticello, Illinois 61856. "P" refers to "Public Administration Series" and
"A" refers to "Architecture Series".]
November 1980 : "A Futures Study of Latin America", P-603.
May 1980 : "Light from Tibet", P-482.
"Ground Effects Machines (GEMs) in Antarctica", P-481.
April 1980 : "Geo-duplication: Some Replacement Costs for Nature", P-461.
February 1980 : "Un-Earthly, Non-human Architecture", A-182.
"Herman Sorgel", A-181.
December 1979 : "Vehicular Cities", A-144.
"Any City, Earth: A Mass Savings Account", A-143.
November 1979 : "American Geography's Image of Human Life in Earth", A-119.
September 1979 : "Evaporative Sea Basin Power-drop Sites", P-328
"America, 1979 A.D.: Engeoneering Our Nation's Future", P-327.
"Engeoneering: Europe and the USSR", P-326.
"LDC's (The Less Developed Countries): A Possible Engeoneered Future", P-325.
April 1979 : "The Developing Artificial Geography of the Solar System", P-206.
Mentioned/quoted
Uwe Kitzinger & E.G. Frankel, Macro-engineering and the Earth: World Projects for the Year
2000 and Beyond (1998), pg. 81.
Wolfgang Voigt, Atlantropa: Weltbauen amn Mittelmeer. Ein Architecktentraum der Moderne
(1998), pp. 121, 123 and 139.
Martyn John Fogg, Terraforming: Engineering Planetary Environments (1995), pg. 9.
Andrew Shaw Goudie, The Human Impact on the Natural Environment (1986), pg. 186.
James Edward Oberg, New Earths: Restructuring Earth and Other Planets (1981), pg. 94.
Education
Associate of Arts (1964, City College of San Francisco)
Bachelor of Arts (1966, San Francisco State College)
Master of Arts (1969, San Francisco State College)
[MA Thesis: "Regional Planning in the Strand Are of the Monterey Bay, California"]
California Community College Instructor Credential #23930, awarded 20 July 1972.
Membership : CLUB Energizer&emdash;yes, the intrepid, unstoppable Pink Bunny. Scoff, and
I'll pound you with my unpadded drumsticks!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Installation of a Tensioned-Fabric Sea Change Screen at Gibraltar Strait&emdash;Creation
of a "Mediterranean Sea Oceanarium"
Richard Brook Cathcart
GEOGRAPHOS
1608 East Broadway
Suite #107
Glendale, California 91205-1524
USA
E-mail: rbcat...@msn.com
Abstract
A new form of art, Ocean Art, is proposed which centers on terracing a part of the global
ocean's surface. Controllably macro-engineering the Mediterranean Sea may be economically
accomplished with the emplacement of a suspended-in-seawater vertical membrane screen at
the Strait of Gibraltar. Because it is a physical separation, such a material screen can
be utilized, in part, to (1) stop the high-salinity water bottom current leaving the
Mediterranean Sea and (2) regulate the North Atlantic Ocean surface current of fresher
water entering the Mediterranean Sea. When it is based on correct geophysical calculations
and predictions, Ocean Art becomes another postulated means to mitigate unwanted regional
coastal changes and to foster Basin-wide economic prosperity.
Key words
Ocean Art, Gibraltar Strait, Molecular Nanotechnology, Mediterranean Sea Basin, Oceanarium
INTRODUCTION
Sequencing the human genome has put our species on a course towards the control of the
"environment" within our kind; it follows Homo sapiens' discovery of fire, a discovery
that kindled all our efforts to macro-engineer the Earth-biosphere. It is on fiery plumes
of rocket-engine exhaust that humanity's representatives temporarily visit Outer Space.
From space, spationauts (and those watching televised images of our Earth from their
exalted viewpoint) may be able to see as much as half of our Earth's Face, or at least its
"skin" (air, land and ocean). On 25 March 2001 in Paris, France, at the Fifth Space Arts
Workshop, "Outer Space-Cyber Space", conference participants examined the cultural impact
of interplanetary space exploration. However, on 26 May 2001, the Train a Grande
Vitesse-Mediterranee sped from the English Channel (passing through Paris) to the
Marseille-St-Charles Station (situated close to the Mediterranean Sea's northern strand)
in only 3.5 hours. Such a record-setting transportation-communication event presages a
sweeping cultural impact on the peoples and landscapes of the Mediterranean Sea Basin.
Space Art proponents opt to construct various symbolic artifacts in Outer Space visible to
Earth's people. With plastic envelopes, Air Art's proponents exploit the possibilities of
compressed air, or the atmosphere's winds. Land Art results from different human
interpretations of the significance of sub-aerial Earth-crust segments. The most Romantic
work of Land Art is "Spiral Jetty", a 1,460 m-long, 4.5 m-wide rubble-mound causeway at
Rozell Point (now submerged by an enlarged Great Salt Lake); built 1969-70 by Robert
Smithson (1938-73) of dumped basalt and limestone rock pieces mined in Utah, it is
considered a contemporary artwork. And it is owned by the Dia Center for the Arts in New
York who have the option of raising "Spiral Jetty" above the Great Salt Lake's surface.
Whilst the artist Christo Jarachev (b. 1935) built eleven island-surrounding pink mats
covering 600,000 m2 of briny lagoon water in Miami's Biscayne Bay during 1983 as his
"Surrounded Islands Project", until now no one has formally proposed Ocean Art, a
deliberate civil engineering meant to cause a sea change in the elevation and composition
of any subdivision of our world's ocean by any peacetime sea terracing macroproject; as
proposed herein, Ocean Art may become a fast-track technological fix for unwanted
Earth-biosphere changes as well as an extension of Art's geophysical domain.
During 1969, Peter Hutchinson (b. 1930) and Dennis Oppenheim (b. 1938) installed artworks
in the coastal waters of Tobago in the West Indies. Subsequently, these installations were
labeled "Oceanographic Art". However, the originator of Ocean Art is architect-engineer
Frei Otto (b. 1925) who first began to contemplate the concept circa 1953. "Oceanographic
Art" is a form of decoration whereas "Ocean Art" is a form of sculpting. Without
freshwater reservoirs, which were mainly constructed during the 20th Century, our world's
ocean would be approximately 3 cm higher; radical Green-activists don't seem to have been
bothered by that fact, if it's even known to them, particularly with regard to their
social movement's persistent insistence for widespread 21st Century dam de-commissioning.
That's an indirect form of "Ocean Art"! Macroengineers ponder the creation of an
Ijsselmeer-like freshwater-flooded polder-reservoir supplying northern Europe by isolating
the Baltic Sea with a physical barrier to stop all influx from the North Atlantic Ocean as
well as an isolation of Long Island Sound to form a freshwater reservoir for the USA's
Northeast. Evidently and prospectively, it is Homo sapiens' intention to occupy the land
and the ocean; per contra, humans can still only use the air. Thus, Frei Otto's "Ocean
Art" utility.
"Technological fix", a solution to a macro-problem based on technology, is often offered
in a pejorative sense as an apparent, or simplistic technological resolution to a complex
human problem whose benefit may be only cosmetic. Technological fixes often have
deleterious and unforeseen consequences, but so do "Social Fixes" devised by Social
Engineering's advocates! After 1960, some media-savvy Social Engineers promoted the
world-public's mindless acceptance of various versions of their Doomsday Equation that
predicts Earth's human populace will reach an "infinite number" before AD 2026! After
1972, many of these same hysterical persons touted&emdash;both in print media and
cyberspace&emdash;our Earth-biosphere's irrevocable demise at the brutal "hands" of
mankind's extensive (constructive and destructive) technology! Alvin Martin Weinberg (b.
1915) claims to be the neologizer of "Technological Fix": the phrase was coined during
1966-68 to ".connote technical inventions that could help resolve predominantly social
problems".
What's the global social problem that Ocean Art can address after AD 2001? Stakeholder and
ideological conflicts resulting from two predicted hyperstatic disaster scenarios ("global
warming" or "global cooling"-caused sea-level fluctuations) may be ideal targets for
overall Ocean Art cures. Macro-engineering's concern with both a cooling as well as a
warming of our common atmosphere&emdash;climatic instability resulting from an
anthropogenic and/or natural "Greenhouse Effect" change&emdash;are not antithetical
interpretations of measured climatic alterations; each predicted atmospheric state
represents a different time period and both are considered reasonable interpretations.
Ecosystem-nations vulnerable to quirky climatic change event-processes that may obliterate
extant spatial and temporal boundaries of vitality (through induced unnatural worldwide
chaos) can oscillate between society-wide hope and near-universal human despair! Gloom and
doom atmospherics, along with the unproved Gaia Hypothesis, cannot be permitted to drive
humanity into making unwise and risky macroproject plans for our Earth-biosphere.
What's the worst that can happen to Earth's land with respect to an anthropogenic increase
in the ocean's volume? If all the world's ice were to melt, at first the ocean would
inundate ~22.5 x 106 km2 of land, then it would stabilize at ~75 m higher than today's
ocean level in its areally enlarged basin. Subsequently, if the entire ocean, from its
murky watery surface to its mucky sea-bottom, simultaneously warmed from 150 C to 200 C
then the ocean's level would rise ~3.5-4 m more. These are the maximum oceanic rise
effects possible&emdash;that is, ~79 m&emdash;if the most extreme "Global Warming"
scenario becomes geophysical reality. The Mediterranean Sea-Black Sea Basins have
undergone great changes in their shape and contents during Geological Time and some of
these changes are documented at Mediterranean Prehistory Online.
"Coastal nations of the world should now be planning for one-half to a meter rise in sea
level during the next century [AD 2001-2101]". Contemporary informed opinions generally
support this more-than-a-decade-old public assertion by two hydraulic specialists. They
proposed, and others since have concurred, that there's going to be an "abrupt"
anthropogenic change in the Earth-ocean's elevation. But, "abruptness", in a global
geoscientific context, ".depends very much on what Man can discern." Highly tweaked and
overly-publicized crude computerized simulations of the future Earth-biosphere are a very
popular means to broadcast a particular model&emdash;a geopolitical viewpoint, in
fact&emdash;of our world's anticipated inhabitability. On the other hand, in a
sociological context, the future ultimate perfection of Molecular Nanotechnology will
demarcate an abrupt historical change for Homo sapiens (from an ancient Non-technological
Era to the Nanotechnological Era). Nowadays, macroengineers must assess the
cost-effectiveness of gigantic macroprojects designed to avert a rise of the ocean. In
essence, today's Macro-engineering adds "Proactive Action" to our standard curative
options list (Do Nothing, Planned Retreat, Reactive Accommodation and Protect in Place).
Political and geopolitical decision-makers, as Peter Szanton thoroughly pointed out in Not
Well Advised (1981), have vastly different perspectives about Earthly geologic change than
macroengineers!
WHO'S "Frei Otto"?
As a consequence of the discovery of electricity and fossil fuels architect-engineers
became managers responsible for directing major private-sector companies as well as
public-sector organizations in the construction planning industry. During 1952, Frei Otto
founded the Institut fur leichte Flachentragwerke in Germany. Like Christo, Otto's a
Romantic designer who utilizes the most modern materials (plastics and metals) to realize
his innovative Institute for Lightweight Structure conceptions. "In the years after 1970
he concentrated his attention on the analysis of biological phenomena, developing his
exploration and analysis of lightweight structures in nature. Because.[Frei Otto] combined
research into the optimum shapes for pre-stressed surface structures with the development
of a new technological means for their realization, his innovations have proved of
outstanding importance; indeed, it is in large part due to his efforts that the successful
revival of the tent has come about.". Well-mastered tensile-fabric structures are his
forte professionally. Such structures consist entirely of form-active elements (cables and
membranes); they are flexible and, thus, are incapable of taking up other than the
form-active shape because they automatically assume that shape when loaded. To perform
satisfactorily, Otto's tensile-fabric structures must be capable of achieving a stable
state of static equilibrium in response to all gravitational, wind and inertial loads. For
the very first time in humanity's history, really large-scale buildings visibly and
instantly interacted with their the environments&emdash;they respond to precipitation,
wind and the warm bodies of living persons. Previously, buildings were chiefly notable for
their hardness, opaqueness, immobility, permanence and inertness; Frei Otto's inflatable
and tensile-fabric inventions offered different&emdash;basically quite
oppositional&emdash;building characteristics (softness, transparency, portability,
temporaries and reactivity).
It is to be hoped the forecasts of Molecular Nanotechnology's elite, which allege that
profession's perfection by mid-century, are materialized since such perfection will surely
enhance the already vigorous advance into geophysical reality of Otto's ideas! For
example, metallurgical engineer David Richard Forrest (b. 1956), a project leader at
Baverstam Associates of Newton, Massachusetts, says: "Raw materials such as nitrogen,
carbon and hydrogen will be put into a desk-size unit which will rearrange the elements
and control the trajectories of all the molecules", resulting in "smart" fabrics that are,
at least, 100 times stronger than today's materials. Being "smart", such post-Kevlar
fabrics will detect rips or tears and send out robotic "repair crews" to mend the damaged
site. And, Kevlar&emdash;invented during 1964 by Stephanie Kwolek (b. 1923)&emdash;can
suffice for this macroproject, being a more-than-adequate fabric (with zero porosity, it
would behave as a film with no open space) for the purposes outlined below.
Cables, the other main ingredient of Frei Otto's structures, may also become significantly
stronger than today's steel ropes. Unusual new molecules&emdash;long, hollow fibers with
unique mechanical properties&emdash;have been discovered and fabricated in the chemical
laboratories. These "Fullerene Nanotubes", industrially produced in quantity, may offer Ma
cro-engineering super-ropes with real-life strength of 130000 MN/m2, almost 43 times
stronger than steel piano wire (3000 MN/m2). The NASA prognosticates super-rope use
eventually in an Earthly Space Elevator macroproject! The NASA hosted a 8-10 June 1999
Advanced Space Infrastructure Workshop on Geostationary Orbiting Tether "Space Elevator"
Concepts which by August 2000 resulted in a summary booklet, compiled by David V.
Smitherman, "Space Elevators: An Advanced Earth-Space Infrastructure for the New
Millennium" (NASA/CP-2000-210429). However, Fullerene Nanotubes merely insure a large
practical margin of safety for Frei Otto's already planned tensile-fabric structures! They
are, in fact, a bonus technology applicable in the future.
Application of a bonus technology at Gibraltar Strait could result in a pontoon bridge
spanning that stretch of ocean&emdash;something less obstructive than Xerxes needed to
transport his army across the Hellespont in 480 BC! Use of at least two super-ropes make
it possible to stabilize a pontoon bridge in a fixed geographical position for a long
period, especially if any surface water current is present. Even so, such a bridge will
require constant maintenance and be liable to damage from floating debris or severe
oceanic storms.
"Non-rigid dams which are shaped like segments of open [that is, topless] circular
containers and are provided with membrane partitions, membrane ribs anchored by means of
intercepting cables, or anchorage cables attached to individual points., can be joined
together to produce structures of any desired length. With such systems it would even be
possible to form large terrace-like enclosed areas of water.for irrigation purposes,
hydroelectric or tidal power generation, climate control, etc." Frei Otto has calculated a
20 m-high water-retaining tensioned-fabric dam (to be fitted into a v-shaped valley) that
has a built-in conventional civil engineering safety margin. (Super-ropes, of course,
could markedly and safely heighten such retention works many fold.) A super-rope barrier
ought to be better than a deep-foundation concrete dam at a place where Africa and Europe
are slowly closing tectonically (owing to "continental drift").
STRUCTURAL FUNCTION AND DUTY
When defining any structure, Macro-engineering ordinarily examines the "function" (what is
it meant to accomplish?) and "duty" (what does the object built have to endure to do its
job?). For the entirety of its design life the object is expected to be quasi-static,
safely responding to every imposed load. "Duty" demands it successfully respond to dead
and live loadings, corrosion, wind forces, fast water currents, tidal rises and falls,
thermal expansions and contractions (seasonal and daily) and unexpected loads caused by
ship collisions and major earthquakes.
Using a suspended, pre-tensioned uniform network of cables and woven Kevlar fabric, I
propose a macroproject to physically separate the Mediterranean Sea from the North
Atlantic Ocean. (This exciting proposition of using "Futuristic" technology such as
Molecular Nanotechnology won't be examined in this report.) A suspended membrane, laced,
braced and anchored by strong steel cables, will more than cope with its self-weight (sag
factor) and with its static load uniformly distributed over its vertical plan area: it
will terrace the North Atlantic Ocean in the Strait of Gibraltar's vicinity! Securely taut
(though usefully flexible) cables affixed to land anchorages and deeply embedded seafloor
roots can be used to lock the facility in place because a deep-hole micro-drilling
technology developed by the Geoengineering Group at Los Alamos National Laboratory makes
it feasible. Kevlar fabric has been manufacturable and marketed since 1971; hung
vertically, Kevlar thread has a self-supporting length of ~200 km, almost four times that
of drawn steel wire! Seafloor Macro-engineering in the Strait of Gibraltar requires
intense site-specific study with the objective of defining all the possible effects of
seafloor conditions and processes on the proposed sea-change screen during its
anticipated, but as-yet-undetermined, lifetime. There is a chance the Mediterranean Sea
can be transformed from an "Oceanarium" into a true "Aquarium". Military engineering
offers the truism that "nothing lasts forever": anti-material technology (super-caustic
and liquid metal embrittlement chemical agents) , high-explosive charges or a nuclear
explosive device and focused laser beams can damage or destroy any sea change screen no
matter what it's ever constructed of.
WHY BLOCK AN OCEAN GATEWAY?
More and more, Geoscience is producing evidence that rapid regional climate change over as
little as a decade's period of Historical Time during the 21st Century is remarkably
possible; speculations as to dates of onset in particular Earth-biosphere regions is still
very much in the purview of the applied Astrologist. Nevertheless, reputable
macroengineers have examined numerous ways to cost-effectively mitigate or totally prevent
some unfavorable changes by counter-balancing the post-Industrial Revolution enhanced
Greenhouse Effect with careful manipulations of our Earth-biosphere's exchanges of heat,
liquids and gases. One pertinent long-term anti-Global Warming/Cooling mitigation
technique is a massive dike-weir blocking the Strait of Gibraltar to reduce the average
salinity of the North Atlantic Ocean's water. All the scientific reasons adduced in 1997
by its author are equally relevant and useful on which to found this new plan. My only
difference with its devisor is that we wish to avoid the sky-high costs, both economic and
environmental, which would follow the emplacement there of a huge pile of broken rock to
form his dike-weir. Briefly, his dike-weir is a ~300 m-high rubble mound structure design
with a low 70 m-wide crest; some sections of it behave like statically stable submerged
low-crested breakwaters with their crests above sea-level while other sections act like
statically stable submerged breakwaters. All the rocky material rests at a 300 angle of
repose. (As the structural behavior of the Pyramid of Chephren in Egypt clearly
demonstrates, even snuggly-fitted stacked cubic rocks can slip as a result of strong local
seismic activity.) Cables and fabric membranes seem a lot more doable and certainly less
intrusive on either the seascape of the immediate sea-bottom or the adjacent landscapes of
Europe and North Africa! The sea-bottom footprint of the dike-weir is very, very big; the
roadway alone is 70 m wide and the imposed dike-weir base is enormous (~416.4 m wide); if
an imaginary 70 m-wide "monolith" of piled rock&emdash;an utterly useless and structurally
impossible 273 x 106 m3 vertical-sided slab&emdash;were installed at a cost of ~15
USA2001$/m3 it would result in a macroproject cost of USA2001$4,095,000,000.
Guesstimating, that might be the post-2001 AD amortized cost of a trans-Gibraltar Strait
Tensioned-Fabric Sea Change Screen that is significantly less ecologically degrading of
the local seabed. The absence of extra-ordinary local crustal loading means too that life
won't be made more difficult for tunnel diggers or bridge builders and major earth tremors
won't be induced that might adversely affect real estate prices and pose life-threatening
disasters for vulnerable local populations.
In addition, it's important to note some changes within the Mediterranean Sea that are
likely to follow whether a suspended membrane screen or his dike-weir is put into
Gibraltar Strait. The Mediterranean Sea-Black Sea is ~0.8225% of the Earth-ocean's area
and contains 0.3094% of its volume; the Mediterranean Sea-Black Sea is one of the two most
land-dominated of all Earth-ocean subdivisions with a land:ocean area ratio of 4.4. [The
other is the Arctic Ocean.] Despite being the first world-ocean region to be studied
scientifically, there's still much to be learned about it! Whether blocked or not, most of
the freshwater vapor exiting the Mediterranean Sea eventually goes into the North Atlantic
Ocean as direct precipitation and continental river runoff&emdash;annually, ~1 m is
removed by evaporation; such unbalancing reduction in the Mediterranean Sea's volume
causes two currents, one super-positioned above the other, to pass through the Gibraltar
Strait to restore a hydraulic balance. The North Atlantic Ocean inflow, the eastward
flowing superior (surface) current, moves with a speed of ~1 m s-1 while the inferior
westward flowing Mediterranean Sea outflow moves at ~5 cm s-1 at depth.
Stopping the inflow and the outflow currents with an Ocean Art screen means that (1) the
Azores Current in the North Atlantic Ocean will radically change its measurable physical
features ; (2) absence of the incoming tidal wave from the North Atlantic Ocean will
detune all Mediterranean Sea tides, doubling the small amplitudes of the semidiurnal tides
in the North Aegean Sea ; (3) absence of a metal-enriched plume of seawater&emdash;caused
by local mining wastes&emdash;entering the western Mediterranean Sea from the North
Atlantic Ocean will be mostly halted and therefore contamination will be curtailed greatly
; (4) the Mediterranean Sea's marine bio-diversity will inevitably adjust to novel
conditions over time ; (5) the Mediterranean Sea will warm and become more
saline&emdash;warming can result in a rise of sea-level while a salinity increase may
lower sea-level&emdash;both can cause a purge of alien and native marine flora and fauna.
Properly managed, this purging event-process could prove invaluable because it would
dissuade extra-Mediterranean Sea-Black Sea creatures from surviving (and causing trouble)
in that region of the world-ocean. (If the salinity ever rose to >6%, all the life in the
enclosed body of water would die&emdash;except, perhaps, for some of the archaebacteria. A
report in the 27 July 2001 issue of SCIENCE consisting of an analysis of the effect of
anthropogenic extinction of oceanic species of rely on the intricate food web of coasts in
the New World and the Old World demonstrated that humanity has "damaged" the Earth-ocean
for at least 10,000 years.)
An approximately ~13 km-long impermeable pelagic drape, hung across the underwater part of
the Strait of Gibraltar by "tracing" a direct point-to-point navigational line extending
from Morocco's Point Ceres (36004.3' latitude North by 05025.7' longitude West) to Spain's
Tarifa (36000.2' latitude North by 05036.4' longitude West)&emdash;but, actually, bulging
or deflecting eastwards in a graceful arc&emdash;ought to epitomize form-active behavior.
Its vertical surface area ought to be ~25 times the area of the floating Flamingo
Pink-colored fabric Christo installed in his famous Florida, USA artwork. Buoys floating
attached to the screen's non-gaudy shore-visible rim will take up the slack membrane
thereby keeping the North Atlantic Ocean and the Mediterranean Sea at equal levels.
However, there are a few more aspects of this all-important membrane we wish to discuss.
For instance, when it is deemed appropriate the cables can be tightened, a shortening will
subsequently cause this gigantic enabler of Ocean Art to elevate above the Mediterranean
Sea's ambient water level. It is possible to convert this piece of infrastructure from a
mere barrier to a true dam: such effort results in the colossal "terracing" of the North
Atlantic Ocean, making an enormous West-East elongate "architectural" subdivision of the
world-ocean! In effect, it redefines the Earth's "main watershed of the world"&emdash;the
principle drainage basins of the Atlantic Ocean, Pacific Ocean and Indian Ocean first
emphatically noted in 1887 by Aleksei Andreevich von Tillo (1839-99).
Why carry out such an infrastructure-building Macro-engineering task? To "Save" the
Mediterranean Sea Basin's beaches, ports and mega-cities from an unnatural 0.5-1 m global
sea-level rise as postulated by hydraulic experts is an appealing reason to do so! It may
turn out that Venice, Italy, can be "rescued" from its forecast "fate" without any
expensive and ugly macroprojects being installed locally that would mar that city's
tourism charm! The hydrodynamics of the sea-lockless Suez Canal needn't change much
either. And, perhaps most importantly, there won't be any need for all Mediterranean Sea
Basin-Black Sea Basin ecosystem-nations to convene a delicate and complex UNO conference
detailing, discussing, debating and designing new international legal regimes to
specifically cope with coastal baseline boundary adjustments caused by either a sea-level
rise or a sea-level fall! This Tensioned-Fabric Sea Change Screen at Gibraltar Strait
won't be as costly as trying to preserve all the major ports and tourist-magnet
picturesque towns dotting the Mediterranean's fabled shoreline! [According to The World
Tourism Organization, in its Tourism 2020 Vision: Africa issued June 2001, Morocco and
Tunisia alone will double their current annual number of out-of-region visitors by AD 2020
(to ~17.7 million visitors yearly).] One might even "voice" the hope that, to chorus
Patricia Goldstone (b. 1951), its future construction will be but another aspect of Making
the World Safe for Tourism (2001).
MEDITERRANEAN SEA OCEANARIUM
More than 50,000 ocean-going vessels are estimated to transit the Strait of Gibraltar each
year. The gateway is still viewed by naval planners as a "choke point" even though the
advent of "Super-Panamax" vessels has profoundly influenced their deliberate military
assessments because of the simultaneous advent of automated mega-ports. The 400-kV
electrical cable interconnection between Spain and Morocco is the first fixed link of its
type between Europe and North Africa. Undoubtedly, more submarine electrical cables will
follow the shortest sub-sea route between oil and gas-rich North Africa and Europe. Frei
Otto anticipated that surface shipping could safely pass over or through his
tensile-fabric aquatic installations using a simple sea-lock set-up. Suddenly lowering the
Sea Change Screen ~1 m across the 13,000 m breadth of Gibraltar Strait won't be a disaster
for the Mediterranean Sea Basin-Black Sea Basin ecosystem-nations; more or less, it'll
resemble a bad storm surge event (an unpredicted ~17,680 m3/s incoming oceanic "tide"
rippling eastward across the Mediterranean Sea-Black Sea's weather-system agitated ~2.97 x
106 km2 surface) with no seawater recession following its one-time only influence! Put
into proper oceanographic perspective, that's ~15 times the maximum rate of seawater flow
that may have abruptly cascaded over the Bosphorus' sill to subsequently and permanently
inundate land east of the Mediterranean Sea during the post-5150 BC Black Sea's
legend-inspiring natural creation process. After the barrier is repaired or replaced, it
will only require about a year's evaporation of the Mediterranean Sea to restore the
former status quo. It's worthwhile to note that authorities in The Netherlands
(specifically, its National Institute for Coastal and Marine Management in The Hague)
claim to ".already have [USA2001$ 2.5 trillion worth of] existing infrastructure." Nothing
like that amount of public monies expenditures ought to be needed in the Mediterranean Sea
Basin&emdash;ever!
What Frei Otto did not foresee are some useful spin-offs from technology invented and
tested during recent years. For example, is it possible to maintain today's Mediterranean
Sea overall salinity by implanting (appropriately isolated) salt exclusion-filtering
membranes within our sea-change screen, thereby admitting freshened water to the
compartmentalized lowest "terrace" of the North Atlantic Ocean? Is there any likelihood
that osmotic pumps will dot the superficial enclosed Mediterranean Sea? Ought
Macro-engineering fund and administer chemical laboratory experiments aimed to market the
perfect dialytic battery? (Where rivers flow into the Mediterranean Sea, salinity-gradient
energy is renewable and its use at very low efficiencies is defensible&emdash;when ~1 m3/s
of freshwater meets brine ~30 MW is releasable.)
Precipitation enhancement&emdash;that is, weather modification&emdash;over the littoral
ecosystem-nations of the eastern Mediterranean Sea Basin can be promoted by vertical
mixing of nearby seawater masses, according to Siegfried Fred Singer (b. 1924). Proved
wave-driven machines can do the job. Since the water that normally flows into the
Mediterranean Sea from the North Atlantic Ocean is nutrient poor, it seems worthwhile to
fertilize segments of the screened Mediterranean Sea with iron pellets to boost
phytoplankton ecology (and afterwards the phytoplankton-devouring commercial and sport
fish). Capitalist entrepreneurs have undertaken to promote large-scale commercial fish
farming on the high seas, while at the same time claiming to help solve&emdash;with a
"technological fix"&emdash;the CO2 gas buildup macro-problem alleged to cause unhappy
future global climate change!
Finally, there is one very speculative natural hazard mitigation function for which a
super-rope screen might prove useful. On 21 July 365 AD a tsunami generated by an
earthquake struck the entire Mediterranean Sea coastline. On 1 November 1755 Lisbon,
Portugal endured a powerful earthquake during which a 5.5 m tsunami assaulted Cadiz, Spain
as well as affecting the coasts of Spain and northern Africa with a small wave run-up on
the land. Nowadays, we have become aware of the likelihood of tsunami produced by the
impacts of asteroids&emdash;that is, a new kind of natural hazard. Hence, the Torino
Impact Hazard Scale logically categorizes the risk assessments. Rene Magritte (1898-1967)
painted disquieting visual paradoxes; one of his most Surreal is "La Fleche de Zenon"
["Zeno's Arrow"] which illustrates a huge gray boulder suspended over a frothy and
aquamarine-colored ocean like some stop-motion photograph of an incoming asteroid! If an
asteroid fell into the central North Atlantic Ocean it would generate a tsunami wave which
would radiate outwards in all directions and, in part, move rapidly towards Gibraltar
Strait: "The wave enters the Straits of Gibraltar as a hydraulic bore. The width of the
bore after it passes through the straits is comparable to that of the straits. Later it
disperses laterally to produce tsunami in southern France and northern Morocco." The
question that surely needs supercomputer simulation is: What change in the behavior of
such a computational model tsunami will occur when a well-secured sea-change screen
exclusively constructed with super-ropes is installed? Guessing, there might merely be a
slight slop-over of little consequence to the Mediterranean Sea-Black Sea perhaps
accompanied by a somewhat focused reflection of the impacting tsunami&emdash;owing to the
screen's parabolic plan shape&emdash;westwards into the North Atlantic Ocean; such a
dissipative rebounding counter-wave is likely to diminish the lesser energy content
eastbound following waves of the main tsunami wave!
Science Fiction generally portrays the Earth-ocean from the same vantage that it views
Outer Space&emdash;as a volume of material and life in which the play of human Science and
Technology create our species' future. Thus, for many sound non-fiction scientific
reasons, it may be technically desirable for Macro-engineering to professionally utilize
its geopolitical knowledge and its planetary-interplanetary work site experience towards
the apparently impending task of converting the Mediterranean Sea into a "Mediterranean
Sea Oceanarium". Many will agree that public utilities are the defining focus of
civilization; it is conceivable that a cross-Gibraltar Strait tension-fabric dam will
become a plastic utility operated in real-time, serving millions of customers, just like
the World Wide Web!
==
Sorry, I am a landlubber! (but a good swimmer and diver!)
Feisty
Nessie
"mimus" <tinmi...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:3c361532...@news.ezwv.com...
http://www.ship-world.com/Presentations/Freedom2b/sld032.htm
First it says:
'No deposit' and 'Payment due upon completion'.
Later it says:
Interested buyers must complete a contract.
With these contracts they get the loans from the banks.
More links:
http://www.freedomship.com/
http://www.ship-world.com/
Like to know _what_ the school system is precisely.
Something 'able'?:-)
Btw, a perfect place for suicide bombers to blow up or take
90.000 to 115.000 hostages while crossing 'The Pacific', brrrr!
Nessie.
Nessie
Hmm......I am sure if $cientology is behind this, they have taken
greater care than ever in trying to hide the source. Another
scam exposed at this time would be a grand blow if not final.
Nessie.
Harold Pekteno
> In the article from Fox, it says that the police to tenent ratio
> is 10/1.
I =had= to check on this. No, the police-to-tenent ratio is only a
hundredth that much, 1:10, rather than 10:1. (Whew! That would be a
=lot= of police!)
--
Harold Pekteno, SP1
barb
I don't think Scientology's even worth $8 billion! Maybe they've united
with the Moonies for this project, hehe.
$130,000 for a 450 square foot studio? That's a laugh, I couldn't even
fit all my computer stuff in that!
--
Barb
Chaplain, ARSCC
http://members.home.net/bwarr1/index.htm
SHOULD THE GOVERNMENT INVESTIGATE $CIENTOLOGY? Sign the petition at
http://www4.PetitionOnline.com/cofs1/
"Every week, every month, every year, every decade and now
every century, Scientology does weird and stupid things
to damage its own reputation."
-Steve Zadarnowski
"Comparing Scientology to a motorcycle gang is a gross, unpardonable
insult to bikers everywhere. Even at our worst, we are never as bad as
Scientology."
-ex-member, Thunderclouds motorcycle "club"
"$cientology sees the world this way: One man with a picket sign:
terrorism. Five thousand people dead in a deliberate inferno: business
opportunity.
$cientology oozes _under_ terrorists to hide."
-Chris Leithiser
Nessie
"barb" <bwa...@home.com> schreef in bericht
news:3C362677...@home.com...
I don't think they have to be worth that much if they can show
the banks the binding contracts. The units as per contract are up
to $ 7 million. I read that to buy some of the units you must show
a net worth of at least $10 million.
Wonder how many people they got to invest in the whole project
with some hard selling at the same.
http://www.ship-world.com/Presentations/Freedom2b/sld039.htm
Construction is expected to begin in early 1999
and
Units will be ready for occupancy two years after this date.
They haven't even started yet:-)
>
> $130,000 for a 450 square foot studio? That's a laugh, I couldn't even
> fit all my computer stuff in that!
So let's get rid of the stuff and split one on the deck where no cameras
are allowed:-)
Nessie.
mephistopheles
successfully.
A ship the size they're talking about will consume quite a
bit of resources, and be excessively vulnerable to all sorts
of risks.
For example:
One cracked weld, and they're screwed. I'm sure the "500
engineers" working on the project will do everything in
their power to avoid a single cause of failure, and they may
be able to do it. Odds are that they will fail - new design
problems caused by its sheer size, for the most part.
What happens when one section is on the trough of a wave and
the other is on a crest? What happens when the crest is in
the middle, and both ends are on the trough, and the crest
swamps the middle section? They say waves 100 ft high won't
hurt it - what happens when it encounters a wave higher than
that? What happens when the ship is bent at its midpoint
along its length, parallel to a plane extending through the
keel to the center of the earth? A deflection of a few
inches in either direction might rip the hull in two - the
bending moment must be enormous. The tension on the steel
sides and superstructure of the ship must be tremendous when
it flexes - it's built on a bunch of "air cushions" bolted
together. How thick is that steel? How long's the service
life? What preparations are being made to service and
inspect the hull while underway? What happens when one end
of this thing is in the eye of a hurricane, but the
remainder is not? IT'S ALMOST A MILE LONG!
No, no, no. It's DOOMED FROM THE START.
Zinj
mephistopheles51@_N_O_S_P_A_M_hotmail.com says...
<snip>
Actually, I doubt it's 'doomed from the start' but it certainly would
bring in engineering problems of a whole new magnitude, and possibly even
expose problems not in the books yet.
It may sound 'Scientological' here, but it's actually a concept well
known in SF in general, and the sociological significance is
fascinationg.
See:
Asimov: Caves of Steel
Heinlein: Orphans of the sky
Niven $ Pournelle: Oath of Fealty
I appreciate the attempt in a general way, but Oath of Fealty really
addresses the sociological implications of having a 'corporation' own
your habitat best, although Caves of Steel only fails to measure up by
not calling this particular 'spade a spade', which N & P do... the
sociological system is called 'fascism'.
Seen in that light, the high level of cops to 'clients' makes a lot of
sense.
Zinj
barb
I agree. The largest supertankers aren't anywhere near a mile long, and
wave trough damage has damaged or sunk a few of them. The mind boggles
at a ship a mile long! I won't be signing up anytime soon...you'd need
an awfully long cord for a cable modem...
>
> >
> >
> >
> > My nephew sent me a writeup on this ship last fall. It
> > sounded like a great idea. Now I read on Fox at:
> > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,42147,00.html
> >
> > So I run a Netscape search and ping on:
> > http://www.freedomship.com/project_updates.htm
> >
> > It says that they are having their briefings for prospective
> > clients in Clearwater, FL.
> >
> > Okay. Am I being paranoid? I mean, this ship is VERY similar to
> > what LRon was doing back in the late '60's and early '70's.
> > In the article from Fox, it says that the police to tenent ratio
> > is 10/1. This sounds AWFUL familiar. Have I missed this in
> > ARS and someone else has posted about these guys? I mean, are
> > some or all of the Board of this corporation part of Co$?
> > Or am I just nuts?
> >
Zinj
<snip>
> Barb
I think the engineering problems would be horrendous, and it sounds like
a scam, but I don't think it's 'impossible' at all. Just expensive.
There is an 'economy of scale' that probably works for the idea.
But... if I had money to invest... I'd be investing in wireless networks.
They are *not* pie in the sky or sea... they actually work in real
life... better than phone company controlled DSL or cable company
'broadband'.
Zinj
Feisty
Harold Pekteno <pek...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:eb6dea9b.0201...@posting.google.com...
This article lists 1:15 - and has similarities to $cn
http://www.globalpolicy.org/nations/freedom.htm
Freedom Ship 'Will Be Target For Terrorists'
By Jason Burke
The Observer
May 28, 2000
It has been billed as a maritime Utopia sailing the seven seas. But security experts are
warning that the 40,000 people who are expected to buy homes on the mile-long, 300-yard
wide Freedom Ship may find life closer to Blade Runner than The Good Ship Lollipop .
The vessel's very name may prove deeply ironic, for there will be one security man to
every 15 residents, homes will be ringed with electronic surveillance equipment, the
ship's police will have access to firearms, the captain will have absolute power, and
there will be a jail in which to dump miscreants.
A squad of intelligence officers will monitor threats to security, both from inside the
ship and externally from pirates and terrorists. The ship will be equipped with
'state-of-the art defensive weapons' to repel attacks and the system of government sounds
remarkably similar to that of some of the world's least savoury regimes.
Construction is to start later this summer in Honduras. More than 15,000 labourers will
work for 24 hours a day to get the ship built by 2003. Already more than a fifth of the
20,000 residential units, which cost from £80,000 to £5 million, have been sold, with
sales averaging £4.7m a week.Many have been sold to clients in Britain and Europe. The US
businessmen and engineers behind the project are so confident they are already planning
three more Freedom Ships.
'It is a new lifestyle for this new millennium,' said Roger Gooch, marketing director of
the Freedom Ship. The promotional literature for the project paints a magnificent picture
of a luxurious tax haven that progresses steadily across the world's oceans, served by a
fleet of light aircraft and speed boats. There will be shops, parks, concert halls,
schools,homes and even a university on board. A huge duty-free shopping mall will generate
significant revenue, it is claimed. The ship is so big - six times larger than any other
vessel ever built - that a 100ft wave will hardly affect it, the builders say.
The captain will be in a position to enforce the laws of whichever country's flag under
which Gooch and his colleagues decide to sail her. Traditionally, states such as Panama
have provided so-called flags of convenience, though Gooch said the ship's management were
considering two European Union nations as possibilities.
The ship's private security force of 2,000, led by a former FBI agent, will have access to
weapons, both to maintain order within the vessel and to resist external threats. They can
expect to be kept busy, according to sociologists, maritime security experts,
criminologists and intelligence experts consulted by The Observer last week. 'The ship
will have all the problems of any small city, including crime, outbreaks of disorder,
juvenile delinquency, neighbourhood disputes, everything,' said Mike Bluestone, a
London-based security consultant. 'And the ship will be a prime target for terrorists. It
would be perfectly possible to hold the entire vessel to ransom by seizing a few
well-chosen hostages.'
Residents will be cosmopolitan, and that may not help social cohesion, says Ivan Horrocks,
a security specialist at the Scarman Centre at the University of Leicester. 'When you
create an artificial environment involving people with very different ethical, cultural,
political andlegal customs and values, the potential for tension is very great. It could
well be more of a dystopia than a Utopia,' he said.
But others are more sanguine about the Freedom Ship's prospects. One of the major
attractions of the vessel, according to Gooch, is its freedom from taxes. Professor Ken
Roberts, a sociologist at Liverpool University, believes that if people merely use the
ship as a mobile tax haven, then it could function socially.'People who have an
international occupational life might find it attractive,though I do not see people with
that kind of money spending all their lives on a ship,' he said.
Others note that residents may be preoccupied with less drastic problems than the threat
of piracy. Many of the first units to be sold have gone to Germans, raising the spectre of
towels already on deckchairs by the time the rest of Europe's aspirant global voyagers
make it to the pool.
---
Feisty
>
> --
> Harold Pekteno, SP1
Phil Scott
>"Nessie" <ness...@SPAMpsychassualt.org> wrote on Fri, 4 Jan 2002 21:30:47
>+0100 in msg <3c361167$1...@news2.lightlink.com>, :
>
>>> >Okay. Am I being paranoid? I mean, this ship is VERY similar to
>>> >what LRon was doing back in the late '60's and early '70's.
>>> >In the article from Fox, it says that the police to tenent ratio
>>> >is 10/1. This sounds AWFUL familiar. Have I missed this in
>>> >ARS and someone else has posted about these guys? I mean, are
>>> >some or all of the Board of this corporation part of Co$?
>>> >Or am I just nuts?
>>>
>>> It seems very unlikely that this is a Scientology activity. The CofS has
>>> spent years building the Super Power building. I don't think they have the
>>> resources to build an $8,000,000,000 25 story ship nearly a mile long.
You would build the ship by selling space on it ahead of construction ..... and
using that money, and the contracts to finance the rest of the ship. It could
be built easily enough.
You would excavate a dry dock next to a deep waterway, and build it there, then
when its done you'd blow out the sea wall and float the ship out.
8 billion is not a lot of money these days, 3,000 units sold already, the
smallest at $130,000, say an average of $300,000 per space considering the
largest goes for 40 million. So an average of $300,000 would be conservative.
multiply by 3,000 paid already or signed with the bank according to the claim.
Thats about 3 billion right there. and they claim 17,000 resident families, so
plenty of money is available. And loan size is small enough to be insurable
for each investor, no one single bank has to take the entire risk.
How it would fare in the ocean is another issue. It has what is called in the
engineering business, 'administrative controls' in the safety department. ... in
other words safey is not built in, it has to be managed by humans. Thats
something you try to avoid when possible, the more and bigger the risk the more
you design to avoid it.
it will also end up with an exceedingly low power to displacement ratio...
thats going to make control in even moderately changing seas touchy if not
immpossible. For instance it takes 6 miles to stop an air craft carrier
(approx) thats with a few million HP of reverse thrust. this baby is not even
going to slow down noticeably in that space. .. put a 150 mph side wind on it
and I dont think it will be controllable. Someone who has captained an oil
tanker or air craft carrier would have much more accurate remarks to make.
Hull strength vs HP input loads will be an issue... with enough power to
naviate I think it will shake like a palsied chicken....
.....steel on that large of scale is flexible, a plus point in the design but a
liability when applied horse power is concerned. they could pour the hull with
concrete though... but then total tonnage would become an issue... and even more
HP would be required to move it.... if its built as strong as an air craft
carrier, construction costs would triple.
if the ship is not actively steered into the wind and out to sea in heavy
weather, it will be broad sided and with the flat bottom, blown in that
direction, possibly blown over... and it would wipe out whatever it hit. Im
sure thats been calculated though... side trusters designed in etc. its no doubt
possible. I just don't think its viable across the range of issues by a very
wide margin.
There will be many times when wind direction and a route to the sea, or away
from ground, will be incompatible.... I think its a scam that can be verified
easily at this point.
If its for real..... the mile long, 1000' wide, 100' deep dry dock should be in
place **now... thats a 2 or 3 year project in itself. No dry dock yet
apparently, a big red flag. I don't think there is a viable way to build it
live on the water. If there is, then my estimate wont be applicable.
(you'd build it live on the water in modular hull sections say 700' long and
100' wide and float them out to sea for atachment to form the larger hull in
time... you could do that.. but those logistics and the ensuing construction
logistics for the rest of the boat get extremely complex and costly... to me
only a dry dock makes sense)
Its 2002 now, with a launch in 2006, they have to be starting now... and they
cant in my view, because the dry dock is probably not in place... it would be
huge news if it were, someone would have said something by now.
The 10 to one police ratio seems absurd as well. With a controlled environment
and no means of escape there will be little crime. Perhaps 1% of the crime in
any major city where people can hit and run. I think thats a gimmic to
attract morons with money to loose possibly, In itself another red flag.
..... unless they plan to use other onboard staff in a dual role as police.
That could be where they get the figure... but the article lists a 2000
apparently dedicated police force... what are they going to be doing? Speeding
tickets on the poop deck.
If I had to bet, Id put my money on another scam.
And probably cult connected. Maybe someone can call Jimbo Kalergis and see if
he is selling real estate on the thing.
Phil Scott
H Alan Montgomery
Fri, 04 Jan 2002 22:07:09 +0100 you write:
>"Nessie" <ness...@SPAMpsychassualt.org> wrote on Fri, 4 Jan 2002 21:30:47
>+0100 in msg <3c361167$1...@news2.lightlink.com>, :
>for the project. Perhaps someone with a bit of spare time wants to do a few
>searches.
>
>Fred King looks like one that needs more checking but the Scientology Fred
>seems to be in Oregon.
>
the members of ARSCC (wdne) keep data bases of
people in Co$ who are mentioned in the Co$ magazines.
I just thought someone could look at the Board and
contact list for this project and do a crosscheck.
I could not figure out how to do it myself.
Think about all the odd coincidences and it smells like
a Co$ scam. Not necessarily the Co$ itself, but one
of its members in good standing <gack>.
Phil Scott
<mephistopheles51@_N_O_S_P_A_M_hotmail.com> wrote:
>I doubt they'll be able to complete the contract at all,
>successfully.
I agree with you generally ... it aint going to happen.. but some of the issues
you mention wouldnt affect a ship that long...wave cresting and trouths etc
>
>A ship the size they're talking about will consume quite a
>bit of resources, and be excessively vulnerable to all sorts
>of risks.
>
>For example:
>
>One cracked weld, and they're screwed. I'm sure the "500
>engineers" working on the project will do everything in
>their power to avoid a single cause of failure, and they may
>be able to do it. Odds are that they will fail - new design
>problems caused by its sheer size, for the most part.
yup
>
>What happens when one section is on the trough of a wave and
>the other is on a crest? What happens when the crest is in
>the middle, and both ends are on the trough, and the crest
>swamps the middle section? They say waves 100 ft high won't
>hurt it - what happens when it encounters a wave higher than
>that? What happens when the ship is bent at its midpoint
>along its length, parallel to a plane extending through the
>keel to the center of the earth? A deflection of a few
>inches in either direction might rip the hull in two -
waves wouldnt do that, super long swells might... if swells get that long, I
think they might.
>the
>bending moment must be enormous. The tension on the steel
>sides and superstructure of the ship must be tremendous when
>it flexes - it's built on a bunch of "air cushions" bolted
>together. How thick is that steel? How long's the service
>life?
Lots of issues, you could pour a double hull with concrete to get the strength,
but then there are other issues.
>What preparations are being made to service and
>inspect the hull while underway? What happens when one end
>of this thing is in the eye of a hurricane, but the
>remainder is not? IT'S ALMOST A MILE LONG!
the OT's on board dissipate the hurricane ? with thought beams?
>No, no, no. It's DOOMED FROM THE START.
From the look of it, its not even going to start.... the start date is at hand
and no dry dock yet. the dry dock alone would be a 9th wonder of the
world...and no sign of it yet. That would take years to complete.
Phil Scott
Phil Scott
The elves will no doubt be working on it. Id bet money its cult related, no
other outfit in the world is that insane. With a sailing date of 2006 and a 44
month construction schedule, we will the first signs of fraud soon. Already we
see no dry dock that big in the world... if they started that tomorrow costs
would be in the billions and it would take years.
If they already have investors, which I doubt, they will tire of hearing the
lies about not starting construction yet... then we ill have another slakin mess
only in the billions this time.
Phil Scott
Ed
hold together against any kind of sea motion unless it is in many
separate parts joined together by flexible connections somehow...
which makes it almost impossible to push or pull. Any kind of storm
trashes it.
I also doubt that real people will throw their money into this not
having any idea who their neighbors are or whether they like the
actual vibrations of life there. There won't be any word of mouth
recommendations unless they build it, and that needs the money
upfront.
Ed
Phil Scott
<mephistopheles51@_N_O_S_P_A_M_hotmail.com> wrote:
>I doubt they'll be able to complete the contract at all,
>successfully.
Regarding durable construction. If I were designing it, I would use truss
construction for the full length, a truss say 50' tall every 20' of the width,
thats 35 trusses. then plate them into water tight compartments with bulkheads
staggered so that no load was concentrated across any single section of the
ship.
that would work. Id estimate the cost in the hundreds of billion dollar range
though. the 8 billion makes no sence to me.
Phil Scott
Human Rights Defense (ShyDavid)
<mephistopheles51@_N_O_S_P_A_M_hotmail.com> wrote:
> I doubt they'll be able to complete the contract at all,
> successfully.
>
> A ship the size they're talking about will consume quite a
> bit of resources, and be excessively vulnerable to all sorts
> of risks.
The maintenance alone will be a nightmare.
The ship will use scores of large volume hyper-fast pumps to keep
their ballast tanks in proper trim. Several computers will open
and close the valves to these pumps, to keep the ship trim, which
means the ship's draft need not be as deep as conventional ships.
The issue is, can a series of pumps move enough sea water in time
to counter the effects of all the forces working to make the ship
yaw and pitch?
At a mile long, the ship would need to flex like a snake--- not
just the hull, but all pipes, vents, ducts, hydrolics, and
electrical conduits.
> For example:
>
> One cracked weld, and they're screwed. I'm sure the "500
> engineers" working on the project will do everything in
> their power to avoid a single cause of failure, and they may
> be able to do it. Odds are that they will fail - new design
> problems caused by its sheer size, for the most part.
The initial design was published in Popular Science about seven
years ago. There was an airport on the top deck, and boat slips
at the stern for personal water craft up to 55 feet. The seaboard
decks will be made out of thousands of self-contained,
water-tight, double-hulled compartments, with living space
aboveboard and ballast tanks belowboard. The ship could take a
dozen torpedos and still not only float, but also make port---
electricity-driven one-speed engines will be located all along
the length of the hull.
Nor is there a need for rudders, nor bow thrusters, nor stern
trusters--- a computer can sequence the engine pivots to change
direction.
(Trimmed here)
There are also maritime legal issues; such a ship would require
exemptions to the rules. If an oil tanker comes up on their right
with bearing constant and distance decreasing (collision course),
a vessel is required to throttle down or bear away, veer, or
sheer --- a ship a mile long cannot do either.
New rules for navigation (light identification) would have to be
put in place, perhaps making the ship exempt from regular rules.
A ship 50 meters or less needs two white stern lights and the
center steaming light; how many lights would a mile-long ship
require?
----
http://www.prozac.com
http://www.paxil.com
http://www.celexa.com
http://www.zoloft.com
"Your days coming mother fucker." --- Keith E. Wyatt, Scientology Inc. spokesperson
Dobe R Mann
> it will also end up with an exceedingly low power to displacement ratio...
>thats going to make control in even moderately changing seas touchy if not
>immpossible. For instance it takes 6 miles to stop an air craft carrier
>(approx) thats with a few million HP of reverse thrust.
Been there, done that. You are way wrong on that figure.
> this baby is not even
>going to slow down noticeably in that space. .. put a 150 mph side wind on it
>and I dont think it will be controllable. Someone who has captained an oil
>tanker or air craft carrier would have much more accurate remarks to make.
>
Dobe R Mann
SP4 Tone 1.95
Read www.xenu.net
See www.xenutv.com
_____________________________________________
INCIDENT 4
LOUD SNAP (Bones breaking)
CHEVROLETS COME OUT
BURN RUBBER
FISHTAIL RIGHT
DO U-TURN
STALL
FLAT TIRE (No motion)
BLOWS HORN
BLOWS MISCAVIGE
CRASH
mephistopheles
> On Fri, 04 Jan 2002 22:07:09 +0100, Ralph Hilton <aon.91...@aon.at> wrote:
>
>
>>"Nessie" <ness...@SPAMpsychassualt.org> wrote on Fri, 4 Jan 2002 21:30:47
>>+0100 in msg <3c361167$1...@news2.lightlink.com>, :
>>
>>
>>>>>Okay. Am I being paranoid? I mean, this ship is VERY similar to
>>>>>what LRon was doing back in the late '60's and early '70's.
>>>>>In the article from Fox, it says that the police to tenent ratio
>>>>>is 10/1. This sounds AWFUL familiar. Have I missed this in
>>>>>ARS and someone else has posted about these guys? I mean, are
>>>>>some or all of the Board of this corporation part of Co$?
>>>>>Or am I just nuts?
>>>>>
>>>>It seems very unlikely that this is a Scientology activity. The CofS has
>>>>spent years building the Super Power building. I don't think they have the
>>>>resources to build an $8,000,000,000 25 story ship nearly a mile long.
>>>>
>
> You would build the ship by selling space on it ahead of construction ..... and
> using that money, and the contracts to finance the rest of the ship. It could
> be built easily enough.
>
>
> You would excavate a dry dock next to a deep waterway, and build it there, then
> when its done you'd blow out the sea wall and float the ship out.
They're planning to build separate smaller "air cushions"
and float them to sea to build larger structures and
ultimately, the "barge", upon which the rest of the ship
will be constructed. Later in this very message, this is
proposed, and dismissed, as a possible mechanism.
> 8 billion is not a lot of money these days, 3,000 units sold already, the
> smallest at $130,000, say an average of $300,000 per space considering the
> largest goes for 40 million. So an average of $300,000 would be conservative.
> multiply by 3,000 paid already or signed with the bank according to the claim.
8 billion dollars is almost two nuclear powered aircraft
carriers; 8 billion dollars is a lot of money.
> Thats about 3 billion right there. and they claim 17,000 resident families, so
> plenty of money is available. And loan size is small enough to be insurable
> for each investor, no one single bank has to take the entire risk.
>
> How it would fare in the ocean is another issue. It has what is called in the
> engineering business, 'administrative controls' in the safety department. ... in
> other words safey is not built in, it has to be managed by humans. Thats
> something you try to avoid when possible, the more and bigger the risk the more
> you design to avoid it.
Agreed. I'd hate to see their insurance premiums. I can't
imagine signing with them without some guarantee of good
conduct on the part of the ship's captain and crew once aboard.
> it will also end up with an exceedingly low power to displacement ratio...
> thats going to make control in even moderately changing seas touchy if not
> immpossible. For instance it takes 6 miles to stop an air craft carrier
> (approx) thats with a few million HP of reverse thrust. this baby is not even
> going to slow down noticeably in that space. .. put a 150 mph side wind on it
> and I dont think it will be controllable. Someone who has captained an oil
> tanker or air craft carrier would have much more accurate remarks to make.
1000 engines at 1 million dollars apiece, they say. In
order to move at all, they must be spread out all over the
hull like cruise ship pods.
> Hull strength vs HP input loads will be an issue... with enough power to
> naviate I think it will shake like a palsied chicken....
>
> .....steel on that large of scale is flexible, a plus point in the design but a
> liability when applied horse power is concerned. they could pour the hull with
> concrete though... but then total tonnage would become an issue... and even more
> HP would be required to move it.... if its built as strong as an air craft
> carrier, construction costs would triple.
The steel is "flexible". The superstructure is designed not
to be "flexible". In order for the apartments above to be
livable, the "barge" would have to remain basically flat
(plus or minus a few degrees, as a cruise ship). The
structural rigidity is beyond modern marine science, at
least on the surface. This is not a submersible or
semi-submersible, but I think that would be a more stable
design (no surface action).
If built as strong as an aircraft carrier, they would not be
able to build one - they could not afford it.
> if the ship is not actively steered into the wind and out to sea in heavy
> weather, it will be broad sided and with the flat bottom, blown in that
> direction, possibly blown over... and it would wipe out whatever it hit. Im
> sure thats been calculated though... side trusters designed in etc. its no doubt
> possible. I just don't think its viable across the range of issues by a very
> wide margin.
Agreed. I do not think it would be possible to actively
control such a ship, even under the best of circumstances,
with a flat bottom hull (a "barge" design).
<snip>
> If I had to bet, Id put my money on another scam.
> And probably cult connected. Maybe someone can call Jimbo Kalergis and see if
> he is selling real estate on the thing.
>
>
> Phil Scott
<and again>
Absurd is the word. It's a scam. If done, it will be a
worse disaster than the Titanic, and more expensive than any
ENGINEERING failure in history, and it will be an
engineering failure.
Phil Scott
(ShyDavid)) wrote:
>On Sat, 05 Jan 2002 00:28:02 GMT, mephistopheles
><mephistopheles51@_N_O_S_P_A_M_hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I doubt they'll be able to complete the contract at all,
>> successfully.
>>
>> A ship the size they're talking about will consume quite a
>> bit of resources, and be excessively vulnerable to all sorts
>> of risks.
>
>The maintenance alone will be a nightmare.
>
>The ship will use scores of large volume hyper-fast pumps to keep
>their ballast tanks in proper trim. Several computers will open
>and close the valves to these pumps, to keep the ship trim, which
>means the ship's draft need not be as deep as conventional ships.
>The issue is, can a series of pumps move enough sea water in time
>to counter the effects of all the forces working to make the ship
>yaw and pitch?
>
>At a mile long, the ship would need to flex like a snake--- not
>just the hull, but all pipes, vents, ducts, hydrolics, and
>electrical conduits.
Well we know soon enough if its bullshit or not... they have supposedly sold
3,000 spaces so far, and its supposed to sail in 2006, commissioning alone will
take a year. So it will need to be started today. to finish in time on thier
stated schedule.
So far though, all they have is an artists conception.... then engineering will
take at least 2 or 3 years, Steel fabrications another 2 or 3 years if ordered
today, and another 3 to 4 years construction if all goes well. Out fitting
and finish work will take a few years.
Id say if they started today with the dry dock, that in 10 years the thing might
be finished, and for a hell of a lot more than 8 billion, maybe 10 times that
much.
It sure smells like a cult of scientology deal to me.
Phil Scott
Phil Scott
Mann) wrote:
>In article <3c33fdf3...@news.tdl.com>, phils...@hotmail.com (Phil Scott) wrote:
>
>> it will also end up with an exceedingly low power to displacement ratio...
>>thats going to make control in even moderately changing seas touchy if not
>>immpossible. For instance it takes 6 miles to stop an air craft carrier
>>(approx) thats with a few million HP of reverse thrust.
>
>Been there, done that. You are way wrong on that figure.
Could be. I guess its classified information. I heard it on a TV news report.
In that case what is your estimate of maneuverabilty of a mile long 700' wide
ship?
Phil Scott
Phil Scott
<mephistopheles51@_N_O_S_P_A_M_hotmail.com> wrote:
>Absurd is the word. It's a scam. If done, it will be a
>worse disaster than the Titanic, and more expensive than any
>ENGINEERING failure in history, and it will be an
>engineering failure.
Ive been in on a few of those. the management just hires
engineering temps, often guys from bagdad who dont even speak
engilish. then when it fails they take all the heat.
There were a bunch of those hired to outfit Air force One. (at Boeing Military
Aircraft in Wichita Ks when I was there (5 axis mills were going off tolerances
on titanium ingots several feet across).
They ran the low voltage control wiring and avionics though the same conduits as
the high voltage motor controls... had to tear it all out and start over.
The engineering firms are just catering to the owners after all,
from what ive seen they will do any insane design imaginable to get the
fee, including produce completely ludicrous designs if thats
what the client thinks he wants.
Phil Scott
>
Harold Pekteno
> This article lists 1:15 - and has similarities to $cn
Not the same article I read, so there will be differences, such as the
reference to "dystopia".
--
Harold Pekteno, SP1
"I think I'll sleep in the teepee tonight," said Tom, intently.
mephistopheles
> On Sat, 05 Jan 2002 00:28:02 GMT, mephistopheles
> <mephistopheles51@_N_O_S_P_A_M_hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I doubt they'll be able to complete the contract at all,
>>successfully.
>>
>>A ship the size they're talking about will consume quite a
>>bit of resources, and be excessively vulnerable to all sorts
>>of risks.
>>
>
> The maintenance alone will be a nightmare.
I don't think there's enough heavy industry or trained labor
to fabricate and adequately inspect such a vessel in *this*
country, let alone a country like honduras (on the schedule
they have published). So not only will the maintenance
involved be a nightmare, but the ship will begin its life
with a maintenance deficit it will never recover from. It
will be impossible to maintain.
<no comment>
> At a mile long, the ship would need to flex like a snake--- not
> just the hull, but all pipes, vents, ducts, hydrolics, and
> electrical conduits.
Which is no problem for lengths of low pressure plastic pipe
or conduit. High pressure/high temperature pipe is going to
present a bit of difficulty, as they say. Non-welded joints
leak like a bitch, and they have to be inspected somewhat
more regularly, which I'll assume they won't want to do in
the 100 or so engine spaces they're going to have.
HDPE and so on are plastics that can be welded, and they run
thousands of feet per roll, if necessary. All cold/hot
water and sewage pipe could be plastic. All conduit could
be plastic. In fact, the ship is not a rigid body, so the
windows on the shopping deck (which are a major selling
point), etc. will have to be plastic as well, also to
minimize storm damage.
However: the shear force at and around the midpoint will be
tremendous. How does the infrastructure deal with half the
ship twisting one way and the other half twisting the
opposite? At the keel, the displacement is only a few
inches in either direction (the cells are bolted together,
supposedly). Twenty-five stories up, a few inches per deck
is a significant shear force.
>>For example:
>>
>>One cracked weld, and they're screwed. I'm sure the "500
>>engineers" working on the project will do everything in
>>their power to avoid a single cause of failure, and they may
>>be able to do it. Odds are that they will fail - new design
>>problems caused by its sheer size, for the most part.
>>
>
> The initial design was published in Popular Science about seven
> years ago. There was an airport on the top deck, and boat slips
> at the stern for personal water craft up to 55 feet. The seaboard
> decks will be made out of thousands of self-contained,
> water-tight, double-hulled compartments, with living space
> aboveboard and ballast tanks belowboard. The ship could take a
> dozen torpedos and still not only float, but also make port---
> electricity-driven one-speed engines will be located all along
> the length of the hull.
I read an article that mentioned 100 diesel engines for
propulsion. I envisioned the pods that cruise ships use for
propulsion now, when I first read about it, but I don't
think that's what they're planning.
> Nor is there a need for rudders, nor bow thrusters, nor stern
> trusters--- a computer can sequence the engine pivots to change
> direction.
>
> (Trimmed here)
>
> There are also maritime legal issues; such a ship would require
> exemptions to the rules. If an oil tanker comes up on their right
> with bearing constant and distance decreasing (collision course),
> a vessel is required to throttle down or bear away, veer, or
> sheer --- a ship a mile long cannot do either.
>
> New rules for navigation (light identification) would have to be
> put in place, perhaps making the ship exempt from regular rules.
> A ship 50 meters or less needs two white stern lights and the
> center steaming light; how many lights would a mile-long ship
> require?
Indeed. And what about quarantine? A floating hospital in
international waters will likely attract an unsavory
clientele. And rats? Even the Navy can't ratproof their
own ships. And what about all that ballast water? Are they
going to fill 520 ballast tanks off the coast of ecuador and
discharge them near Vladivostok? The sudden influx of
non-native species will overwhelm the local flora and fauna
in some areas. And what about a passenger that buys a plant
or seeds in china to plant at Aunt Patty's house in Georgia?
On a cruise ship with a normal complement of passengers
and crew, I think these issues are manageable with proper
care and attention to detail. On a (nearly) mile long ship,
with such a huge number of people on board, I think there is
no possible way to plug enough holes for security and
customs to be anything other than a joke.
Too many legal issues to effectively resolve, it seems.
> "Your days coming mother fucker." --- Keith E. Wyatt, Scientology Inc. spokesperson
<I just left kewyatt's quote, as representative>
Phil Scott
<mephistopheles51@_N_O_S_P_A_M_hotmail.com> wrote:
>Human Rights Defense (ShyDavid) wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 05 Jan 2002 00:28:02 GMT, mephistopheles
>> <mephistopheles51@_N_O_S_P_A_M_hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I doubt they'll be able to complete the contract at all,
>>>successfully.
>>>
>>>A ship the size they're talking about will consume quite a
>>>bit of resources, and be excessively vulnerable to all sorts
>>>of risks.
>>>
>>
>> The maintenance alone will be a nightmare.
>
>
>I don't think there's enough heavy industry or trained labor
>to fabricate and adequately inspect such a vessel in *this*
>country, let alone a country like honduras (on the schedule
>they have published). So not only will the maintenance
>involved be a nightmare, but the ship will begin its life
>with a maintenance deficit it will never recover from. It
>will be impossible to maintain.
all very interesting points. That cellular box structure will not be strong
enough at the midsection I dont think... it seems the guy was thinking about the
safely of air tight compartments but not about the structural integrity.... and
bolted? The last article I read he said he was still seeking financing while
negotiating 300 acres in Honduras. the guy is halucinating across the boards it
seems. In clearwater that has to spell cult member.
way too many issues. No mention of the power source. It would have to be
nuclear powered steam turbines, no? Thats a whole other situation on a
privately owned ship at sea. Heavy crude , fueling those 40' tall, 200 rpm
two stroke engines does not seem viable at that scale.
Phil Scott
barb
>
> Human Rights Defense (ShyDavid) wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 05 Jan 2002 00:28:02 GMT, mephistopheles
> > <mephistopheles51@_N_O_S_P_A_M_hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I doubt they'll be able to complete the contract at all,
> >>successfully.
> >>
> >>A ship the size they're talking about will consume quite a
> >>bit of resources, and be excessively vulnerable to all sorts
> >>of risks.
> >>
> >
> > The maintenance alone will be a nightmare.
>
> I don't think there's enough heavy industry or trained labor
> to fabricate and adequately inspect such a vessel in *this*
> country, let alone a country like honduras (on the schedule
> they have published). So not only will the maintenance
> involved be a nightmare, but the ship will begin its life
> with a maintenance deficit it will never recover from. It
> will be impossible to maintain.
>
> <no comment>
Nobody has mentioned the problem of barnacle hitchhikers. Now that the
really effective bottom paints have been banned, hitchhikers are a real
problem for boat owners. Considering the square footage of submerged
hull on this thing, keeping it clear of seaweeds, mussels, and barnacles
would be a nightmare! Outhauling this vessel is not an option. The hull
cleaning would be an ongoing project, I would imagine, like painting the
Golden Gate Bridge. Once they finish, they start all over again.
However, I did read an article lately about barnacles being a new,
trendy food in some Pacific Rim type restaurants...perhaps seaweed and
barnacle soup will become a staple on this ship!
mephistopheles
> mephistopheles wrote:
>
>>Human Rights Defense (ShyDavid) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Sat, 05 Jan 2002 00:28:02 GMT, mephistopheles
>>><mephistopheles51@_N_O_S_P_A_M_hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>><little snip>
>
> Nobody has mentioned the problem of barnacle hitchhikers. Now that the
> really effective bottom paints have been banned, hitchhikers are a real
> problem for boat owners. Considering the square footage of submerged
> hull on this thing, keeping it clear of seaweeds, mussels, and barnacles
> would be a nightmare! Outhauling this vessel is not an option. The hull
> cleaning would be an ongoing project, I would imagine, like painting the
> Golden Gate Bridge. Once they finish, they start all over again.
Yep. Just think... there will be a permanent underclass
responsible for chipping the same one hundred meter long by
three hundred meter wide section of hull OVER AND OVER
AGAIN. Sign my ass up... not.
> However, I did read an article lately about barnacles being a new,
> trendy food in some Pacific Rim type restaurants...perhaps seaweed and
> barnacle soup will become a staple on this ship!
blech.
<again>
roger gonnet
"H Alan Montgomery" <F...@vm.tamu.edu> a écrit dans le message de news:
7D4BE27...@vm.tamu.edu...
>
>
>
> My nephew sent me a writeup on this ship last fall. It
> sounded like a great idea. Now I read on Fox at:
> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,42147,00.html
>
> So I run a Netscape search and ping on:
> http://www.freedomship.com/project_updates.htm
>
> It says that they are having their briefings for prospective
> clients in Clearwater, FL.
>
> what LRon was doing back in the late '60's and early '70's.
> In the article from Fox, it says that the police to tenent ratio
> is 10/1. This sounds AWFUL familiar. Have I missed this in
> ARS and someone else has posted about these guys? I mean, are
> some or all of the Board of this corporation part of Co$?
> Or am I just nuts?
That's a scam from God knows who.
This is so evident: nobody for the moment has the least chance to be able
tro build such a 250 meter large, 1500 meter long, and more than 100 meter
high boat.
It would weight how much ? Guess? something like 2 or 3 or 20 millions
tons?
Would need steel around, something like & feet thick, which would be almost
impossible to make (a normal high furnace makes ingots from its ingot mould,
of similar thickness.
No port would take it; no passage thru the Channel, not a lot toward pacific
island either, etc etc.
r
roger gonnet
"Nessie" <ness...@SPAMpsychassualt.org> a écrit dans le message de news:
3c36...@news2.lightlink.com...
>
> "mimus" <tinmi...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
> news:3c361532...@news.ezwv.com...
> > "Nessie" <ness...@SPAMpsychassualt.org> wrote:
> >
> > >"Ralph Hilton" <aon.91...@aon.at> schreef in bericht
> > >
>
> Btw, a perfect place for suicide bombers to blow up or take
> 90.000 to 115.000 hostages while crossing 'The Pacific', brrrr!
no insurance company will ever take it anyway. That ship is just a fraud.
from a clam?
r
roger gonnet
"Dobe R Mann" <dobe_...@nospamsorclamshotmail.com> a écrit dans le
message de news: Z0vZ7.38138$K36.13...@news1.rdc1.va.home.com...
> In article <3c33fdf3...@news.tdl.com>, phils...@hotmail.com (Phil
Scott) wrote:
>
> > it will also end up with an exceedingly low power to displacement
ratio...
> >thats going to make control in even moderately changing seas touchy if
not
> >immpossible. For instance it takes 6 miles to stop an air craft carrier
> >(approx) thats with a few million HP of reverse thrust.
>
> Been there, done that. You are way wrong on that figure.
sure. look how al quaida insane cultists stopped their planes: between some
meters.
true, was'nt so recognizable after.
roger
Phil Scott
wrote:
>
>"H Alan Montgomery" <F...@vm.tamu.edu> a écrit dans le message de news:
>7D4BE27...@vm.tamu.edu...
>>
>>
>>
>> My nephew sent me a writeup on this ship last fall. It
>> sounded like a great idea. Now I read on Fox at:
>> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,42147,00.html
>>
>> So I run a Netscape search and ping on:
>> http://www.freedomship.com/project_updates.htm
>>
>> It says that they are having their briefings for prospective
>> clients in Clearwater, FL.
>>
>> Okay. Am I being paranoid? I mean, this ship is VERY similar to
>> what LRon was doing back in the late '60's and early '70's.
>> In the article from Fox, it says that the police to tenent ratio
>> is 10/1. This sounds AWFUL familiar. Have I missed this in
>> ARS and someone else has posted about these guys? I mean, are
>> some or all of the Board of this corporation part of Co$?
>> Or am I just nuts?
>
>That's a scam from God knows who.
>
>This is so evident: nobody for the moment has the least chance to be able
>tro build such a 250 meter large, 1500 meter long, and more than 100 meter
>high boat.
Its about 5 times as heavy as an aircraft carrier.... and guy is serious... hes
in the clearwater area :) you can find the ships web site by searching google
for
Freedom Ship or the freedom ship... the project has been written up in a
major US magazine, popular mechanics in 1998.
3,000 people have already signed up apparenlty. they are going to build it at
sea :) by floating out barge in modules.
so far it looks like a scam... if they had the engineering firms on board that
they claim, there would be some killer CAD graphics on their web site... but all
they have is a not overly well done hand painted architectural painting. so
apparently there has been no serious engineering firms involved.
Phil Scott
roger gonnet
"mephistopheles" <mephistopheles51@_N_O_S_P_A_M_hotmail.com> a écrit dans le
message de news: 3C367E51.1070300@_N_O_S_P_A_M_hotmail.com...
> Phil Scott wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 04 Jan 2002 22:07:09 +0100, Ralph Hilton <aon.91...@aon.at>
wrote:
> >
> >
> >>"Nessie" <ness...@SPAMpsychassualt.org> wrote on Fri, 4 Jan 2002
21:30:47
> >>+0100 in msg <3c361167$1...@news2.lightlink.com>, :
> >>
>
>
> 8 billion dollars is almost two nuclear powered aircraft
> carriers; 8 billion dollars is a lot of money.
If so, then, there is not the least chance to build it for 8 billions $. An
aircraft carrier is just something like 300 meter long x 30 high x 40 large.
Say it's around 36 000 - that's 36 thousands cubic meter then. (or 50, no
problem, that's not the same order as the next smal ship)
This small model of the insane "freedom" (for the con-man) boat is
1500 x 250 x 100, which gives something like 37 MILLIONs cubic meters.
That's something like 1000 times more, yes, so you can hope that it'll cost
at least 2000 if not 50000 times more than the aircraft carrier. Because no
possible place exist to build it, no engineer has the least real idea on how
to do that, no banker won't ever pay for it unless insane, no insurer wil
take it, and anyway nobody will go there to build it.
Okay, I'm adamant; but this is earth, not a space op insane scam location !
Just take a look at the shot exposed on the scam site: this is really the
most horrible design I've ever seen for a boat since eons!
And observe what the first shot shows: a casino place -- exactly the
location where a con-man goes to spend the money taken from his victims.
roger
roger gonnet
"Phil Scott" <phils...@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
3c342eb0...@news.tdl.com...
> On Sat, 05 Jan 2002 04:17:52 GMT, mephistopheles
> <mephistopheles51@_N_O_S_P_A_M_hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> >Absurd is the word. It's a scam. If done, it will be a
> >worse disaster than the Titanic, and more expensive than any
> >ENGINEERING failure in history, and it will be an
> >engineering failure.
>
> Ive been in on a few of those. the management just hires
> engineering temps, often guys from bagdad who dont even speak
> engilish. then when it fails they take all the heat.
>
> There were a bunch of those hired to outfit Air force One. (at Boeing
Military
> Aircraft in Wichita Ks when I was there (5 axis mills were going off
tolerances
> on titanium ingots several feet across).
>
> They ran the low voltage control wiring and avionics though the same
conduits as
> the high voltage motor controls... had to tear it all out and start over.
Reminding something from inside scientology... WASTING 50 dollars if needed
to get one cent profit, that they invest into their stupid scam.
r
Richard Bell
roger gonnet <roger....@worldnet.fr> wrote:
>
>"mephistopheles" <mephistopheles51@_N_O_S_P_A_M_hotmail.com> a écrit dans le
>message de news: 3C367E51.1070300@_N_O_S_P_A_M_hotmail.com...
>> Phil Scott wrote:
>>
>> > On Fri, 04 Jan 2002 22:07:09 +0100, Ralph Hilton <aon.91...@aon.at>
>wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >>"Nessie" <ness...@SPAMpsychassualt.org> wrote on Fri, 4 Jan 2002
>21:30:47
>> >>+0100 in msg <3c361167$1...@news2.lightlink.com>, :
>> >>
>
>>
>>
>> 8 billion dollars is almost two nuclear powered aircraft
>> carriers; 8 billion dollars is a lot of money.
>
>If so, then, there is not the least chance to build it for 8 billions $. An
>aircraft carrier is just something like 300 meter long x 30 high x 40 large.
>Say it's around 36 000 - that's 36 thousands cubic meter then. (or 50, no
>problem, that's not the same order as the next smal ship)
Your stats for carriers are undersized. The volume of submerged hull, not
the entire structure, just the part BELOW the waterline, is almost 100,000
cubic metres. About the cost, the lion's share of the CVN's cost is the
combat management system.
>
>This small model of the insane "freedom" (for the con-man) boat is
>
>1500 x 250 x 100, which gives something like 37 MILLIONs cubic meters.
>That's something like 1000 times more, yes, so you can hope that it'll cost
>at least 2000 if not 50000 times more than the aircraft carrier. Because no
>possible place exist to build it, no engineer has the least real idea on how
>to do that, no banker won't ever pay for it unless insane, no insurer wil
>take it, and anyway nobody will go there to build it.
I think I saw this one in a documentary on the future of cruise ships. You
have made the mistake of assuming that it is a single-hulled ship of
conventional (but very large) design. It isn't. It is a self-propelled (?),
offshore platform on multiple submersible hulls. The individual hulls are
sized to be built anywhere (100,000 cubic metres [Yes, these can be built
anywhere, 100k m^3 is typical, by merchant standards]). As the individual
hulls are quite simple, they are cheap for their size. The tricky bit is
getting the hulls underneath the superstructure. However, an elegant
solution is to build the superstructure as a kind of bridge-like structure
over sheltered waters, install the submerged hulls underneath it, and then
float the structure off of its piers by pumping most of the water out of the
submersible hulls.
>
>Okay, I'm adamant; but this is earth, not a space op insane scam location !
>
>Just take a look at the shot exposed on the scam site: this is really the
>most horrible design I've ever seen for a boat since eons!
>
>And observe what the first shot shows: a casino place -- exactly the
>location where a con-man goes to spend the money taken from his victims.
>
>roger
>
>
I am not saying that this proposed ship is not a scam, or that this ship
should be built, merely that it is not impossible to build. As ships
go, it is mindbogglingly huge (70 times a supertanker), but it is only
4-8 times the size (not mass*) of the largest thing floated, so far.
* From what I saw, most of its 100m height is above the waterline, and much
of the volume is empty space. It may have a gross tonnage of 37 million
tonnes, as cruise ships are measured, but its displacement tonnage will
probably be less than 20% of gross, possibly less than 10%.
roger gonnet
"Richard Bell" <rlb...@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> a écrit dans le message de
news: a1hu72$93g$1...@watserv3.uwaterloo.ca...
> In article <a1eatd$u5n$1...@news4.isdnet.net>,
> roger gonnet <roger....@worldnet.fr> wrote:
> >
> >"mephistopheles" <mephistopheles51@_N_O_S_P_A_M_hotmail.com> a écrit dans
le
> >message de news: 3C367E51.1070300@_N_O_S_P_A_M_hotmail.com...
> >> Phil Scott wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Fri, 04 Jan 2002 22:07:09 +0100, Ralph Hilton
<aon.91...@aon.at>
> >wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>"Nessie" <ness...@SPAMpsychassualt.org> wrote on Fri, 4 Jan 2002
> >21:30:47
> >> >>+0100 in msg <3c361167$1...@news2.lightlink.com>, :
> >> >>
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> 8 billion dollars is almost two nuclear powered aircraft
> >> carriers; 8 billion dollars is a lot of money.
> >
> >If so, then, there is not the least chance to build it for 8 billions $.
An
> >aircraft carrier is just something like 300 meter long x 30 high x 40
large.
> >Say it's around 36 000 - that's 36 thousands cubic meter then. (or 50, no
> >problem, that's not the same order as the next smal ship)
>
> Your stats for carriers are undersized. The volume of submerged hull, not
> the entire structure, just the part BELOW the waterline, is almost 100,000
> cubic metres. About the cost, the lion's share of the CVN's cost is the
> combat management system.
> >
Right, I have let a zero outisde of the figure. That's 360000 (300 x 30 =
9000 ; 9000 x 40 = 360000 qm.
The second model is therefore something like 100 times over, instead of 1000
times over.
You mean the gas extractions towers from norway?
They are 'nt similar at all. And have asked lots of work to transfer them,
in some days for some miles only...
No boat can be that slow.
>
> * From what I saw, most of its 100m height is above the waterline, and
much
> of the volume is empty space. It may have a gross tonnage of 37 million
> tonnes, as cruise ships are measured, but its displacement tonnage will
> probably be less than 20% of gross, possibly less than 10%.
I'm not competent about those aspects
roger