Mark Bunker : Great thanks from others
Magoo
http://www.lisatrust.net
I first met Mark when I was not only "In" Scientology, but working as a
volunteer for OSA>
They asked me to go "Handle" Mark. So I and another man, on the spur of the
moment went up,,,,and just started talking. We were told Mark likes
trivia....so It was our job to "keep him busy, and interested in trivia. Get
him OFF of the topic of Scientology".
I think Mark has posted that video on the Magoo page,,,,but check it out. I
am talking in a phony accent....and going on and on about nothing. That WAS
the "PLan".
It kind of gives you a little insite into just on a regular basis, how they
ask their own public to jump in and "handle" things they do not want.
I know, all of you "Scientologists who are OUT"...will say differently. But
most or all of you never worked with OSA< as far as I know. Also, even if
you did, there are layers of OSA> and just as terrorists, the right hand
never knows what the left hand is doing. OF course they make you *think*
like you are IN THE KNOW>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Just as these fools posting here think they are helping the exec's of
Scientology. Yeah...right. And DM is coming over for dinner, too.
But getting back to Mark...
Since I left, Mark has video'd my story and many others. I get e-mails and
calls from people all the time telling me they saw my video and how much it
helped them understand.
This is thanks to Mark Bunker, who has taken the time to make them, and make
them right.
Thanks Mark.....again :)
Have a ~great~ week-end ~
Tory/Magoo~dancing in the light~
In for 30 years
Out for 1 and a half years
SP 6^ with Cumulative Cluster
Free at last!!!!
Lurkmonster
wrote:
Yes by all means let's all go look at Tory in her video. Let's see if
we can see what she is faking now.
Joshua Korosi
at all, just magoo. If it was just about Magoo degrading her husband and
Scientology, this post wouldn't exist. This is nearly a fixation. I had a
feeling it would only be a matter of time before Lurkmonster blew his 'tired of
people degrading Scientology' masquerade. Indeed, it seems to be a masquerade
because of all the posts that come before Tory's that degrade Scientology, Lurk
zeroes in on magoo's. Shoddy, very shoddy. I pulled off better 'programs' when
I was a kid.
Of course, on that level, I can't really complain about Scientology's unique
language. Us military brats had our own sort of indecipherable babble too,
before we grew out of it.
This post defines one of the reasons I have 'praised' Magoo in the past (forgive
me for this evil, $). Here she is, directing people to a video of herself, while
she was in Scientology, doing what Scientologists do. This is a person who is
not afraid of her past and admits when she is wrong. This is an admirable trait,
and you have to admit it, whether you like Tory or not.
WHY does Ms Magoo rock? Several reasons, and this is one of them.
By the way, Tory, in the video you are quite silly :P
-Joshua Korosi
Lurkmonster
wrote:
>Well, then. Lurkmonster's problem isn't really with magoo degrading her husband
>at all, just magoo. If it was just about Magoo degrading her husband and
>Scientology, this post wouldn't exist. This is nearly a fixation. I had a
>feeling it would only be a matter of time before Lurkmonster blew his 'tired of
>people degrading Scientology' masquerade. Indeed, it seems to be a masquerade
>because of all the posts that come before Tory's that degrade Scientology, Lurk
>zeroes in on magoo's. Shoddy, very shoddy. I pulled off better 'programs' when
>I was a kid.
>
Heh, I am not zeroing in on magoo personally. I am zeroing in on her
attempts to enter the vicious cycle of trying to make less of
scientology by degrading it then feeling bad about that and having to
degrade scientology some more to feel better and so on... I invited
others to see her image so they would see that scientology does not
shorten your life.
Dobe R Mann
>On Sat, 19 Jan 2002 19:25:15 GMT, "Magoo" <mag...@worldnet.att.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Mark Bunker has made some fabulous videos as seen on
>>http://www.lisatrust.net
>>
>>I first met Mark when I was not only "In" Scientology, but working as a
>>volunteer for OSA>
>>
>>
>>This is thanks to Mark Bunker, who has taken the time to make them, and make
>>them right.
>>
>>Thanks Mark.....again :)
>>
>>Have a ~great~ week-end ~
>>
>
>Yes by all means let's all go look at Tory in her video. Let's see if
>we can see what she is faking now.
Hi Lurky, long time no ARC.
How was the RPF?
What brings you back to ARS? Why are you posting here?
Why are you trying to invalidate Tory?
Dobe R Mann
SP4 Tone 1.95
Read www.xenu.net
See www.xenutv.com
_____________________________________________
INCIDENT 4
LOUD SNAP (Bones breaking)
CHEVROLETS COME OUT
BURN RUBBER
FISHTAIL RIGHT
DO U-TURN
STALL
FLAT TIRE (No motion)
BLOWS HORN
BLOWS MISCAVIGE
CRASH
Lurkmonster
dobe_...@nospamsorclamshotmail.com (Dobe R Mann) wrote:
>In article <aoij4uomsv7ef54t7...@4ax.com>, Lurkmonster <lurkm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>On Sat, 19 Jan 2002 19:25:15 GMT, "Magoo" <mag...@worldnet.att.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Mark Bunker has made some fabulous videos as seen on
>>>http://www.lisatrust.net
>>>
>>>I first met Mark when I was not only "In" Scientology, but working as a
>>>volunteer for OSA>
>>>
>(chomp)
>>>
>>>This is thanks to Mark Bunker, who has taken the time to make them, and make
>>>them right.
>>>
>>>Thanks Mark.....again :)
>>>
>>>Have a ~great~ week-end ~
>>>
>>
>>Yes by all means let's all go look at Tory in her video. Let's see if
>>we can see what she is faking now.
>
>
>Hi Lurky, long time no ARC.
>
>How was the RPF?
>
>What brings you back to ARS? Why are you posting here?
>
>
>Why are you trying to invalidate Tory?
>
See these two threads titled as follows:
OFFCIAL NOTICE: MAGOO NAME CHANGE
Lurkmonster goes a trolling
I am trying to keep Tory from following a sad trail to the bitter end.
MABosnos
shorten your life."
Not unless your name is Lisa McPherson.
Magoo
"Lurkmonster" <lurkm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:aoij4uomsv7ef54t7...@4ax.com...
are promoting***
Magoo
YOU rock :) Thanks for pointing this out>
I LOVE it when critics nail things like this.
Sure, it's about me (which when it nails someone's lies,,,sure, I like it)
but it also nails just EXACTLY how OSA works.
Very goooooooooood Joshua! Your backgrounnd helped no doubt.
Well...I ~am~sillly often. I love fun, I love goofing around. I love
chatting with people and I refuse to let these turkeys get me down. Sure
they do, sometimes, but over all.....I know who they are and you are
correct, I am comfortable in my own skin.
Especially since away from the "Standard tech there to prove we all were
not". What a scam~
My best to ya,
Tory/Magoo~rockin with Joshua :)
"Joshua Korosi" <JKO...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3C49EF6E...@prodigy.net...
Ed
No, you are reaching out for love and attention that you
aren't getting from your seniors in Scn.
Ed
Magoo
The "sad tail to the bitter end" is they creating a lie...and pushing it
over and over as they did in the above posts (and yes, they weren't YOUR
lies...just out and out GOSSIP posted about one person's weirdo THOUGHTS
about me, and you all (((OSA))) re=posting this *crap* as if it is fact.
To this day.
Now...trying to tie me into your filthy game you did with Keith....man are
you NUTS>>>>>and AS I HAVE SAID (((( UH HUMMMMM) there are some PRETTY
interesting PEOPLE Mr. Bill Looking at your creations. Please stop
lying...and re-posting lies. You are going to get in some serious
trouble....just by the out tech that you are doing. Maybe Gavino says
fine,,,but Gavino would roll you in a heart beat if that was the stat for
the week. You don't HONESTLY think he cares about YOU do you? Or really even
Scientology. He couldn't to be committing such overts daily as he is. And
you, a Class 8.....for shame!
You are not trying to help...you are creating a senario that is a complete
and utter lie...over and over..just as Hubbard says to do, until people
believe it. But guess what? Here on the Internet, people can read it..they
can see it...they KNOW what you are doing! You all didn't factor that in,
did you? Well guess what....they have.
Shame on you.
Tory/Magoo!
Lurkmonster
wrote:
Do you know the definition of Dead Agenting?
Lurkmonster
So a scientologist has a car accident and develops a blood clot that
travels to her lung scientology is to blame?
Mike Krotz
MK
Lurkmonster
I have no seniors in Scn. The love of my life just came in the our
computer room and said its snowing again and went back to watch the
Highlander movie on Showtime.
barb
No, but when a "perishioner" is held for 17 days and loses 45 lbs and
dies, I'd say Scientology is to blame. Blood clots don't make one lose
drastic amounts of weight, or put ligature marks on wrists, Lurky. And
you well know that the ME in the case first said she died of
dehydration, consistant with weight loss. Then she abruptly changed her
diagnosis to the one Scientology favored, quit her job, and vanished.
There's more to that story than meets the eye. Don't try to minimize a
death that Scientology could have easily prevented.
--
Barb
Chaplain, ARSCC
http://members.home.net/bwarr1/index.htm
SHOULD THE GOVERNMENT INVESTIGATE $CIENTOLOGY? Sign the petition at
http://www4.PetitionOnline.com/cofs1/
"Every week, every month, every year, every decade and now
every century, Scientology does weird and stupid things
to damage its own reputation."
-Steve Zadarnowski
"Comparing Scientology to a motorcycle gang is a gross, unpardonable
insult to bikers everywhere. Even at our worst, we are never as bad as
Scientology."
-ex-member, Thunderclouds motorcycle "club"
"$cientology sees the world this way: One man with a picket sign:
terrorism. Five thousand people dead in a deliberate inferno: business
opportunity.
$cientology oozes _under_ terrorists to hide."
-Chris Leithiser
Lurkmonster
wrote:
Yeah Tory the internet people can read and you might be surprised what
you do not know about their thoughts. Just so you know I am not the
person you think I am so if you ever see that person don't expect him
to know what you are talking about. Do you realize you have decided
who I am without having any knowledge? Knowledge that could be found
if you searched the ARS archives.
Lurkmonster
wrote:
Yeah and you know better than a medical examiner and a whole lot of
medical experts.
Lurkmonster
>Lurkmonster wrote:
>>
>> On 20 Jan 2002 01:13:49 GMT, mabo...@aol.com (MABosnos) wrote:
>>
>> >Lurkmonster: "... Scientology does not
>> >shorten your life."
>> >
>> >Not unless your name is Lisa McPherson.
>>
>> So a scientologist has a car accident and develops a blood clot that
>> travels to her lung scientology is to blame?
>
>No, but when a "perishioner" is held for 17 days and loses 45 lbs and
>dies, I'd say Scientology is to blame. Blood clots don't make one lose
>drastic amounts of weight, or put ligature marks on wrists, Lurky. And
>you well know that the ME in the case first said she died of
>dehydration, consistant with weight loss. Then she abruptly changed her
>diagnosis to the one Scientology favored, quit her job, and vanished.
>
>There's more to that story than meets the eye. Don't try to minimize a
>death that Scientology could have easily prevented.
No people die in hospitals all the time with embolisms. A lot die from
being given too much blood thinner.
BOSTON (AP) -- About 1,500 heart attack victims in the United States
may die needlessly each year because they receive the wrong doses of
clot-dissolving drugs, a study estimates.
http://www.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/03/08/clotting.study/index.html
Mike Krotz
caused a death by way of such a clot and embolism.
MK
Lurkmonster
wrote:
>Please give an example where a similar, minor auto accident injury
>caused a death by way of such a clot and embolism.
>
I can do better than that. Did you know flying in an air plane can
cause you to die from a blood clot?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4115165,00.html
Deep vein thrombosis claims the life of at least one airline
passenger a month at Heathrow, according to a study published
today.
Realpch
>Yeah right, bruises from car door handles kill people all the time.
>
>MK
Yes of course they do. They cause people to behave irrationally, lose large
amounts of weight, and die in a bathtub five minutes away from a hospital.
Peach
Magoo
is easier, shorter, and closer to the facts.
What really counts here is what you do and say, and so far you are batting
1,000 on OSA"s Programs.
You may not be "Bill"....but if you are not, I am pretty sure who you are,
and I'd put money on he still advising you all the way. That's even tackier.
When was the last time you were consistently out of hiding?
Doesn't that seem just a littttttttttle bit odd?
Tory/Magoo~
"Lurkmonster" <lurkm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:okak4uss5svqoqnii...@4ax.com...
Magoo
the reminder. I'm so used to being IN and trying to "dead agent" these
critics....I forgot my terms and that YOU all are Black PRing ME>>>>vs when
I was IN trying to Dead Agent stuff the critics, or "SP"S" said.
Tory/Magoo!~
"Lurkmonster" <lurkm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2p9k4ukge2jekaajp...@4ax.com...
Magoo
when in, I never considered whatever I did as "black PR". I never did. I'd
go around saying "I'm SURE Bob Minton is blah blah blah"...having NEVER met
the man. (( which was TOTAL Black PR per the definition, as I was spreading
lies about him))But I NEVER considered it what it actually was: Black PR. I
always considered we were Dead Agenting stuff. That's really what OSA
promotes. So it's missed that one is out slandering people. Do you see the
differnce? It's actually quite huge.
Others may not have this MU>..but trust me OSA< that ain't why I left :)
Tory/Magoo!
"Magoo" <mag...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:Uwx28.382522$W8.14...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Tigger
If you are trying to say that some critics who used to be scientologists
engage in the same kind of behavior as they did when they were
scientologists, I agree with you.
Take Tory's statement: "They asked me to go "Handle" Mark. So I and
another man, on the spur of the moment went up,,,,and just started
talking. We were told Mark likes trivia....so It was our job to "keep
him busy, and interested in trivia. Get him OFF of the topic of
Scientology".
You will see these "critics" doing similar things all the time. They
find out that something bothers or interests someone. For example, say
someone is bothered by personal insults. These critics insult,
ridicule, and denigrate to get him/her OFF a topic or the topics they
don't want discussed. Most, if not all, of the time this will also get
people off any real issues about Scientology too.
But I disagree with you when you say the teachings of L. Ron Hubbard do
not cause people to die. A quack doctor, who can persuade someone that
coffee enemas or whatever will "cure" her cancer, is no different that
a fake war hero, fake humanitarian, fake nuclear scientist, fake
spiritual leader who can persuade his flock that his "methods" can cure
your cancer, your eyesight, your whatever.
Both are preventing early detection and proper medical treatments that
have cured many cancers and/or prolonged life.
Roxanne Friend died of breast cancer because she believed Hubbard and
did not see a licensed medical doctor. Roxanne Friend, when she did
decide to see a real doctor was held against her will
for two weeks by scientologists, including her scientologist brother, to
convince her of the "error of her ways".
So you see Lisa McPherson was not the only person who was held captive
to make them return to the "flock". How many others have had similar
experiences that the COS has successfully managed to cover up? How many
suicides because Hubbard's insane teachings caused some to cross over
that sometimes thin line between sanity and insanity?
Your assertion that Lisa McPherson died of injuries from a car accident
and would have died in a hospital anyway are not valid.
In a hospital she would have been fed and hydrated through tubes if she
had refused to eat or drink. She would not have had her nose pinched
shut while untrained medical people attempted to shove stuff down her
throat.
A hospital would have notified her mother and Lisa would not have been
"isolated" and left alone to face the fear of what someone was doing to
her.
In a hospital Lisa would have received tested and proven medications for
blood clots, psychosis or anything else that was wrong with her, not the
concoctions of a conman who mocked up "remedies" to keep his flock in
the barn.
Concerning your "evidence" that plane flights cause blood clots: Yes
some do.
Why? Because passengers sit in a tight cramped space without moving for
too long and do not drink enough or any water. BTW that young woman
who died of a plane flight caused blood clot, died the very next day.
Lisa McPherson died more than two weeks after her car accident.
Lisa McPherson, because of the way the COS teachings said to "handle"
her was confined to a bed, tied in with restraints, left alone for long
periods of time, probably never was moved or had her poor body
massaged, maybe not even bathed for more than two weeks.
She was not moved enough to prevent a blood clot from forming. She was
not given enough water to keep her hydrated.
She was not fed enough to sustain life. When she refused to drink or
eat, she was not put on ivs to keep her poor body adequately hydrated
or nourished. Lack of water, lack of movement can cause blood clots,
which can cause death, whether it is voluntary confinement in a too
small space on an airplane or involuntary confinement in a huge hotel.
Scientologists did not seek outside help until it was too late. Lisa
was either dying or dead. In a hospital, under proper medical care and
supervision and with her mother by her side, Lisa would never have
gotten to that crucial stage in the first place. If she was getting
worse, either the hospital or her mother would have consulted a medical
expert who was specialized in treating whatever was causing Lisa pain
and suffering, whether it be blood clots or pychcosis.
Critics need to face the truth, that some of them are doing the same
DA stuff that the Scientologists do.
And Lurkmonster, you need to face the truth. Becaue of the teachings of
L. Ron Hubbaard, Lisa McPherson was tortured and died.
Tigger
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I DON'T GIVE THEM HELL. I JUST TELL THEM THE TRUTH AND THEY THINK IT'S
HELL."'
Harry S. Truman (GIVE 'EM HELL, HARRY)
U. S. President
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lurkmonster
You need to face the fact that the medical examiner and a whole lot of
medical experts disagree with you.
barb
By ignoring the facts, you can't make them go away.
Lisa McPherson lost 45 lbs in Scientology custody in 17 days! That is
not normal.
Then she died.
The Medical Examiner determined her death to be due to dehydration. She
suddenly changed her decision the the one Scientology liked better
(blood clot) quit her job, and vanished.
Her diagnosis is, in light of her behavior, to be held suspect, as we
know what kind of pressure Scientology is willing to bring on people.
Some people, when intimidated, get more determined. Others fold.
And let's not forget the good Scientology doctor who's license was
suspended for a year for providing perscription drugs to the unqualified
Scientologists who monitored Lisa's last days, hmmm?
You can keep on trying to reduce this event to the simplistic version
your cult promotes, Lurky. Your argument here is nothing but dogged
repetition of the party line. Like your argument about the Narconon
scam, you cannot win as long as those tedious little facts keep getting
in your way, and people continue to point them out.
barb
>
> On Sat, 19 Jan 2002 18:31:31 -0800, barb <bwa...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >Lurkmonster wrote:
> >>
> >> On 20 Jan 2002 01:13:49 GMT, mabo...@aol.com (MABosnos) wrote:
> >>
> >> >Lurkmonster: "... Scientology does not
> >> >shorten your life."
> >> >
> >> >Not unless your name is Lisa McPherson.
> >>
> >> So a scientologist has a car accident and develops a blood clot that
> >> travels to her lung scientology is to blame?
> >
> >No, but when a "perishioner" is held for 17 days and loses 45 lbs and
> >dies, I'd say Scientology is to blame. Blood clots don't make one lose
> >drastic amounts of weight, or put ligature marks on wrists, Lurky. And
> >you well know that the ME in the case first said she died of
> >dehydration, consistant with weight loss. Then she abruptly changed her
> >diagnosis to the one Scientology favored, quit her job, and vanished.
> >
> >There's more to that story than meets the eye. Don't try to minimize a
> >death that Scientology could have easily prevented.
>
> No people die in hospitals all the time with embolisms. A lot die from
> being given too much blood thinner.
Yeah, and a piece of Skylab fell on a guy in Australia and killed him.
A guy on a jetski was killed when a flying duck hit him in the head.
A motorcyclist was killed when a stray dog fell off a railroad trestle
and
hit him.
These are all as relevant to your argument as the statement "people die
in hospitals all the time with embolisms." They don't lose 45 pounds in
17 days.
They just die, boom! Like that. Here one second, gone the next. If Joan
Woods ever grows a spine and gives us the real story on her bizarre
change in diagnosis, we'll have the answer. In the real world, people
don't do things like that without a good reason. She gave up her career
and disappeared for a year. I suspect two things;
1. Scientology helped her with that
2. Her first diagnosis, dehydration, was the correct one.
How unfortunate for her that she couldn't just use the diagnosis
Miscavige put forth; "She died. People die."
>
> BOSTON (AP) -- About 1,500 heart attack victims in the United States
> may die needlessly each year because they receive the wrong doses of
> clot-dissolving drugs, a study estimates.
> http://www.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/03/08/clotting.study/index.html
Michael
I also beleive LMT USED it and made a "national enquirer" stye horror
tale out of it.
Blown out of proportion crap.
This was done in a vain attempt to destroy an alternative religion.
Michael
liannaskywalker
wrote:
If you have a love of your life, why do you keep saying nasty things
about Tory? Shouldn't you be watching "Highlander" with him/her and
enjoying his/her company? (not sure of either of your genders so I'm
just going to be politically correct)
I *have* no life, being a college student with no partner and too much
time on my hands. What's your excuse?
Lianna Skywalker
SP4
"When you show the odd flash of contextual intelligence, I forget your
generation can't read." -- Dr. Hannibal Lecter
Tilman Hausherr
wrote in <dfjk4u8km74kesgck...@4ax.com>:
And Lisa was held this way not for 12 hours, but for 17 days. THAT is
why she died.
--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP5.55] Entheta * Enturbulation * Entertainment
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.xenu.de
Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
Find broken links on your web site: http://home.snafu.de/tilman/xenulink.html
The Xenu bookstore: http://home.snafu.de/tilman/bookstore.html
barb
Heathrow is an airport, Lurky. It's at ground level! I have no doubt
that those folks are dropping due to the friggin frustration of being
subjected to ill-treatment at the hands of airline personnel.
barb
Who are these "whole lot of medical experts," Lurky?
The Scientology doctor who just lost his license for a year for
providing perscription drugs to unqualified Scientologists "caring" for
Lisa?
Who are the others? Some nameless fabrications like the ones on the
Scientology website?
"Scientology saved my life."
--A Roofer
"Lisa McPherson died of a blood clot."
--A Whole Lot of Medical Experts
barb
Blown out of proportion? A UFO cult restrains a member for 17 days until
she dies.
It IS a National Enquirer style horror story, but no fabrication. The
woman wanted to leave, she died in their custody, and her bank account
was drained by the cult after death!
Alternative religion? Get a clue, Michael. It's 1% artificially flavored
religious product concealing one of the biggest fraudulent scams on
Earth!
Religions don't need prison camps, armed compounds, ranks of PIs and
lawyers.
Religions don't resort to harassment and intimidation to silence their
detractors, they see no reason to. Only a criminal syndicate would wish
to conceal the truth about itself, and hide behind a religious facade to
delude the unwary and mentally lazy. If you look at Scientology's fifty
year history carefully, it looks less like a bonafide religion and more
like a Mafia-type syndicate! Duh!
Lurkmonster
Well, I am the Lurking Monster of this forum here to protect the
innocent from Suppressive Persons. I find participating more
interesting than watching others pretend to be fictional characters.
Though I do enjoy the time I spend to enjoy her company.
Mike Krotz
similar, a minor auto accident injury causing a clot which caused a death.
MK
Lurkmonster
What you don't seem to realize is your "tedious little facts" are just
the best you critics can come up with to black PR scientology. You
being one sided (having never studied both sides of the argument as I
have) don't notice or refuse to see that I have exposed them
for the distortions they are.
Lurkmonster
Here is a post from the ARS archives that you may have forgotten.
From: Sue M. (Xen...@primenet.com_(Bat_Child)
Subject: Transcript--news segments on medical experts' press
conference on Lisa
McPherson case
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Date: 2000/03/08
Description of video is in [brackets]
Fox-13 News, 3/06/2000
[screen in background says "Scientology" in white script on blue
background with light blue logo-pattern that looks like a sailboat
sailing on the ocean with moon in the background]
NEWSCASTER: World-famous forensic pathologists were so upset by a
local newspaper editorial, they came here to set the record straight,
as they say. The editorial called for continued prosecution of the
Church of Scientology for the death of Lisa McPherson. Fox-13's Steve
Nichols tells us why these men don't feel that's warranted.
[footage at press conference; chart with drawing of human veins on
stand by table where the people speaking are]
DR. MICHAEL BADEN: We just let it go on--
STEVE NICHOLS--VOICE OF: The Church of Scientology said it would hire
pre-eminent experts in its defense, and these are two of the best.
Dr. Michael Baden was chief medical examiner in New York City and was
hired by the House of Representatives to review the Kennedy and King
assassinations.
[Dr. Cyril Wecht at press conference; picture of Lisa McPherson; Fort
Harrison]
STEVE NICHOLS--VOICE OF: And it would take several pages just to list
all the writings of Dr. Cyril Wecht. They are two of eight experts
ready to dispute the autopsy findings after the death of 36-year-old
Lisa McPherson. Fellow Scientologists were nursing McPherson through
a mental breakdown at the time.
DR. CYRIL WECHT [caption--"Dr. Cyril Wecht, Forensic Pathologist]:
Unexpected, absolutely unpredictable and hence unavoidable deaths--
[footage of press conference]
STEVE NICHOLS--VOICE OF: Most of today's briefing focused on what is
not in dispute.
[picture of Lisa; chart with drawings of blood veins showing emboli]
STEVE NICHOLS--VOICE OF: McPherson got a bruise in a car accident; 17
days later, a blood clot from that bruise broke loose and lodged in
her lung. And these scientists bristle at the suggestion that a
medical finding like that can be bought.
DR. CYRIL WECHT: I made a living before the Scientology Church case.
I'll make a living when the Scientology Church case is over.
[outside Pinellas County Medical Examiner building; picture of Lisa]
STEVE NICHOLS--VOICE OF: The local medical examiner also thinks
McPherson was malnourished and dehydrated when she died.
DR. MICHAEL BADEN: Looking at the photographs and talking to Dr.
Davis and looking at the microscopic slides, there is no evidence of
malnutrition or dehydration.
[Dr. Joan Wood; autopsy photos of Lisa]
STEVE NICHOLS--VOICE OF: And at one point Dr. Joan Wood referred to
numerous abrasions on McPherson as cockroach bites.
DR. MICHAEL BADEN: Clearly they're not cockroach bites. I've seen a
lot of them in New York City, in the Bronx, in my 40 years of doing
this work. Um, they're scrape marks.
STEVE NICHOLS--ON CAMERA: Of course, the church is not charged with
homicide; it's charged with practicing medicine without a license and
abuse and/or neglect of an incapacitated person. The consultants say
they see no evidence of anybody practicing medicine without a license,
but they both admit Lisa McPherson was probably incapacitated.
[picture of Lisa; outside court building]
STEVE NICHOLS--VOICE OF: But was she abused and/or neglected. That's
one of the questions prosecutors must consider when deciding whether
to pursue this case. In Clearwater, Steve Nichols, Fox-13 News.
NEWSCASTER: The local medical examiner caused quite a stir a couple
of weeks ago when she changed the manner of McPherson's death from
"undetermined" to "accidental". However, her autopsy report still
notes "severe dehydration".
Tampa Bay Channel 8, 3/06/2000:
[background screen has Scientology logo with crossed-out cross]
NEWSCASTER--ON CAMERA: Today two of the nation's top forensic doctors
say the Church of Scientology didn't kill Lisa McPherson; a bruise
did.
[pictures of Lisa; footage at press conference]
NEWSCASTER--VOICE OF: McPherson died in 1995 after 17 days in care at
the care of the church headquarters in Clearwater. Prosecutors had
charged the church with abuse and practicing medicine without a
license. Today a county coroner from Pittsburgh and a doctor who
reviewed the JFK assassination for Congress held a press conference in
Clearwater. They both say McPherson's death was sudden and
unforeseeable, and they blame her death on a bruise from a minor car
wreck which triggered a fatal blood clot.
Channel 10, 3/06/2000
[screen in background has Scientology crossed-out cross and title
"McPherson Case"]
NEWSCASTER--ON CAMERA: There are some new developments tonight in the
death of Bay Area Scientologist Lisa McPherson.
[footage from press conference--caption, "Clearwater, Pinellas County,
Lisa McPherson case"; picture of Lisa]
NEWSCASTER--VOICE OF: Two forensic pathologists consulting for the
Church of Scientology say that McPherson was a healthy woman who died
from an aneurysm that traveled to her heart. Last month the medical
examiner in the case changed the cause of death from "undetermined" to
"accidental".
NEWSCASTER--ON CAMERA: Prosecutors claim the church was practicing
medicine without a license. McPherson died while under the church's
care.
Channel 28, Tampa Bay, 3/06/2000
[screen in background has Scientology crossed-out cross and title
"Scientologists Speak Out"]
NEWSCASTER: Well, the controversy surrounding the Church of
Scientology and the death of one of its members continued today. Two
medical experts spoke out in support of the church, claiming Lisa
McPherson could not have been saved by anyone.
[screen in background shows Barron Johnson]
NEWSCASTER: 28-Tampa Bay's Barron Johnson joins us live tonight from
Clearwater with the latest. Good evening, Barron.
BARRON JOHNSON (caption--"Barron Johnson, 28 Tampa Bay News")(standing
outside the Fort Harrison): Good evening, Bob. You know, for the
past four years the Church of Scientology has been trying to clear
itself of any wrongdoing in the death of Lisa McPherson. Today, a
pair of forensic pathologists came and argued in favor of the church
and saying that instead of going by public opinion, medical science
should be used in exactly explaining what happened to Lisa McPherson.
[footage from press conference--Dr. Michael Baden, charts of drawings
of anatomy; picture of Lisa; Fort Harrison Hotel; pictures of Lisa;
Fort Harrison]
BARRON JOHNSON--VOICE OF: Now the Dr. Baden of New York, shown here
with his chart, explained how a blood clot in the leg can travel
throughout the body and lodge in the pulmonary artery in the lung,
causing instant death. That's why both Baden and fellow pathologist
Cyril Wecht of Pittsburgh say no one could have saved 36-year-old
church member Lisa McPherson. McPherson was kept under close watch by
Scientology church members at the Fort Harrison Hotel for 17 days back
in late 1995. When they took McPherson to the hospital she was
pronounced dead. At the time, the medical examiner, Dr. Joan Wood,
said McPherson's death was the cause of--actually, the cause was
undetermined.
DR. CYRIL WECHT (caption, "Dr. Cyril Wecht, forensic pathologist"):
The fact of the matter is, with all due respect to Dr. Wood, she was
wrong in her diagnoses.
DR. MICHAEL BADEN (caption, "Dr. Michael Baden, forensic
pathologist"): Malnutrition and dehydration are not present in Ms.
McPherson. Looking at the photographs and talking to Dr. Davis and
looking at the microscopic slides, there is no evidence of
malnutrition or dehydration.
[shot of Fort Harrison, camera pans over to also show Barron Johnson]
BARRON JOHNSON--ON CAMERA: Last month the Clearwater medical examiner
charged McPherson's--changed it, rather--to "an accidental death".
Even still, McPherson's family maintained that the Church of
Scientology is to blame for their daughter's death. However, this all
said, currently the Church of Scientology is still facing two charges,
one being abuse and neglect of an incapacitated person and the other
practicing medicine without a license. Both those charges stem from
the way the prosecutors say McPherson was treated in the last days of
her life while she was here in the hotel. But with the cause of death
having now been changed to "accidental", that could force prosecutors
to re-think their strategy if they plan to pursue this case against
the church. Bob.
[screen shows Barron Johnson, then shows the Scientology crossed-out
cross and title "Scientologists Speak Out"]
NEWSCASTER: All right, Barron Johnson tonight in Clearwater. Thank
you for that, Barron. And so far, prosecutors have report that
they're--that report that they're putting together is up to 10,000
pages in length. The judge has closed the file to the public.
barb
But Lurky, you offer no argument! The best you can do is parrot the
party line over and over and over...I have read both sides. It's pretty
easy for someone not hoodwinked and blinkered by the cult to draw a
conclusion.
What distortions are you referring to?
The fact that McPherson died after being held by Scientologists for 17
days?
The fact that she lost 45 pounds while in their "care?"
The fact that untrained personnel dosed her with illegally obtained
perscription drugs?
The fact that the doctor who provided the perscriptions was suspended
for a year?
The fact that the ME in the case overturned her own diagnosis in favor
of Scientology's, quit her job and vanished?
The fact that death caused by an embolism does not result in
catastrophic weight loss, but death by dehydration does?
Do tell, Lurky! Please to elaborate on your statement!
Lurkmonster
Heh hehehe, Barb you are funny. You might want to check some of
my other responses to your questions you might find they expose you.
barb
>
> On Sun, 20 Jan 2002 07:41:40 -0800, barb <bwa...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >Lurkmonster wrote:
Interesting that these two hired-by-Scientology forensics experts
patently contradict Joan Wood's initial findings, isn't it?
barb
Non-confront, Lurky! FLUNK!
Start over...
RAM7275a
>my other responses to your questions you might find they expose you.
Lurkie, dear, you are getting very tiresome.Your just NOT getting the hint that
you are NOT answering the questions put to you.
I got better answers from my children when they were younger. "Who ate all the
cookies?" Son: "I did, Mom" Me: "Why? and before dinner!" Son: "because
I wanted them".
At least he didn't lie, and he gave me a straight answer, took his punishment
like a "man".
You, on the other hand, Lurkie, keep giving answers that equate to "What
cookies, Mom".
Lurkie, dear, will you please just give us an honest "Gee, I really don't know
the answer." At least it's an honest answer!
MomRoz
Starshadow
"MABosnos" <mabo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020119201349...@mb-mw.aol.com...
> Lurkmonster: "... Scientology does not
> shorten your life."
>
> Not unless your name is Lisa McPherson.
Or Noah Lottick or....
--
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow
KoX, SP5. ARSCC (wdne) Wiccan Chaplain
(To find out what this means, go to www.xenu.net)
Lurkmonster
Well if you look you will see that I have given honest answers here
many times. You and others are not used to honesty so you don't
recognize it. The mud patties slung around here sure are not the
cookies they are pretended to be.
Starshadow
Translation: I can't remember what I said as a "refutation" last time
though I know it didn't go over too well, so I'll pretend it worked
beautifully and was the last, definative word.
Don't thank me, Lurky. All in a day's work.
Starshadow
> >shorten your life."
> >
> >Not unless your name is Lisa McPherson.
>
> travels to her lung scientology is to blame?
Only when they lock her up for seventeen days and don't let a real doctor
attend her and watch her dehydrate and starve to death.
barb
Hehehe..."many times." Not necessarily THIS time, but at some point in
the past.
Therefore, since you have given honest answers here "many times," we
should therefore believe you "this time."
Many new people aren't used to Scientology-brand "honesty," Lurky. Like
"ethical,"
your cult redefines it in a way that newbies are not aware.
Say, isn't yours the "church" that trains people how to lie using
Training Routine L? You know, the one where they practise lying until
they can do it convincingly?
Why, yes, I believe it is!
Tommy
None of this is funny, you soulless creep.
Remind me to spit on your grave after they kill you too.
Tommy
--
Church of $cientology's "ecclesiastical leader" David Miscavige on the
death of Lisa McPherson, a church member locked up until she died:
"At the time I don't think it was really thought to be that
significant an issue. She died. People die."
furnitur...@hotmail.com
<3C4AEF7...@fornikulture.com>, Mike said...
>
>I didn't ask you to do better. I asked for an example of something
>similar, a minor auto accident injury causing a clot which caused a death.
>
>MK
Here's one for you.
Birmingham Evening Mail
July 28, 2000, Friday
BIKE RIDER DIED DAYS AFTER ACCIDENT
A MOTORBIKE rider from Wednesbury walked away from a road accident with bruises
but died six days later, an inquest heard today.
Stuart Steven Clee, 38, from Riverway, was riding his motor bike along Heath
Lane, West Bromwich, when he collided with a car on July 18 this year. Mr Clee,
a single unemployed carer, suffered bruising in the accident and was taken to
Sandwell General Hospital for treatment and was later discharged.
The West Bromwich hearing heard how six days later Mr Clee telephoned for an
ambulance complaining of breathlessness.
Suffered
When paramedics arrived at the scene Mr Clee was confused and suffered a
respiratory arrest.
Deputy Sandwell Coroner, Mr Paul Griffiths, said Mr Clee was rushed to Sandwell
General Hospital where he later died.
He said: 'Although attempts were made to revive him Mr Clee he sadly passed away
in hospital. A post mortem examination revealed the cause of death was a
pulmonary embolism as a result of a deep vein thrombosis.
'Obviously this was caused as a result of the bruising sustained in the motor
accident.'
The inquest was adjourned to a date to be fixed.
furnitur...@hotmail.com
>similar, a minor auto accident injury causing a clot which caused a death.
>
>MK
Krotz, you are one lousy investigator. Unprofessional to the extreme.
Even with the help of Emmons and your girlfriend, Peterson, you couldn't find a
beachball if you were balancing it on your nose.
Tom Padgett
was done to destroy an alternative religion."
Greenberg:
Sometimes you are soooooo naive ....if not just plain stupid! Bernie
has apparently fried your mind with BS and compromised your skills of
critical thinking.
Scientology is an alternative mental health practice, NOT a "religion."
Geeze consult
your rabbi ASAP in matters of theology.
You're on a rabid freefall of non-credibility on this NG that's
approaching the very bottom of the garbage can.
I have met with Mark Bunker personally on many occasions and find that
he exhibits
NO anti-religious thinking, sentiments, or behavior. To that extent, I
would support Tory's
accolades of Mark for the audio/video work he's
done so far TO EXPOSE corruption, manipulation, abuse, injury, and even
death/s.
Tom
------------------------------
http://www.FairGamed.Org
furnitur...@hotmail.com
>similar, a minor auto accident injury causing a clot which caused a death.
>
>MK
Here's another one, Krotz. You surely are blind.
July, 1998
New Judicial Decisions; Vol. 2, No. 5
Student Suffers Fatal Fall; No Section 504 Liability
The parents of a high school student with allergies and headaches who died after
a fall at school had their Section 504 claim rejected by a Georgia appeals
court. Crisp County Sch. Dist. v. Pheil, 27 IDELR 1033 (Ga. Ct. App. 1998). In
December 1991, Jessica Pheil fell on a staircase at her school while changing
classes. She was treated for leg bruises and released, but died a week after the
fall from a pulmonary embolism.
The Crisp County school district knew that Pheil had a history of allergies and
headaches, but there was no evidence that she needed accommodation with respect
to class changes.
Pheil's parents filed an action against the school district, the local board of
education and four individual defendants, alleging, among other things, that the
defendants violated Section 504 by failing to accommodate the student's
headaches and allergies. A lower court denied the defendants' motion for summary
judgment, and they appealed.
The court rejected the Section 504 claim because the parents did not show that
the school had failed to accommodate the student's disability. Although the
school was aware that the student had headaches and allergies, it was not aware
of their alleged effect on the student's ability to change classes. Thus, the
school did not fail to reasonably accommodate the Pheil's disability, the
appellate court said, reversing the lower court ruling.
furnitur...@hotmail.com
>similar, a minor auto accident injury causing a clot which caused a death.
>
>MK
Here's another example. If you want anymore you'll have to get Emmons to sit
down with you. Fat chance then too.
St. Petersburg Times
January 2, 1996, Tuesday, City Edition
Her death, his loss flow from 1 misstep
Pete and Janet Emerito were on the honeymoon of their dreams, staying in bed
and breakfast hotels and seeing the sights in the North Carolina mountains.
But then Janet started worrying that she was ruining the honeymoon for her new
husband. First there was the bout with food poisoning, then came the swollen
ankle she hurt when she slipped on some rocks while walking near a waterfall.
On the way back to their Clearwater home, her ankle was hurting so badly they
decided to stop at a Daytona Beach emergency room to have it checked. "She was
very upset because of the food poisoning. Now we had to take her to the
hospital," Pete recalled. "She thought that the whole honeymoon was a failure.
That she ruined the whole thing.
"I couldn't stress enough that "no you didn't, this is just something we have
to deal with,' " he said. "We have a whole life ahead of us to go on another
honeymoon - you know, to finish this one off."
But just three weeks after their wedding at St. Cecilia Church in Clearwater,
the couple was back in the chapel. Janet was in her wedding gown again, this
time for her funeral.
On her death certificate, the cause of death, a blood clot, was medically
termed a "saddle embolus of the lung thrombosis of the left popliteal vein
associated with fracture of the left leg."
Janet Emerito died of complications from a broken ankle.
Pete Emerito and Janet Miller met two years ago in a Clearwater nightclub. He
taught her how to play darts.
Their friends saw the perfect match.
"They were great together, like little kids," said Tammy Bonnell, Janet's
matron of honor. "You wouldn't believe they were 29 (years old)."
They moved in together, and life was good.
"We had an anniversary a few times every month - the anniversary of when I
proposed to her, another when we first met," Pete said. "I'd get up in the
morning and the bathtub would be filled with balloons - so would my truck."
In April 1994, Pete proposed to Janet on the beach off the Courtney Campbell
Parkway.
"I had made her a card and wrote her a poem," he said. "I read her the poem -
she was crying - and the sun was setting. I got down on one knee, took the ring
from the bottom of the cooler, and proposed to her. It was perfect."
They were married on Oct. 14, a year and a half later.
The honeymoon to North Carolina included a visit to the Pisgah National Forest.
Pete wanted a picture of his new bride in front of a waterfall. While Janet was
posing, she slipped and smacked her ankle against some rocks.
Pete packed the ankle in ice. They had planned to leave from the waterfall and
head north for the next part of the honeymoon, so the car already was loaded.
Pete turned the car south instead.
"I just had a feeling I had to head home."
At the Halifax Memorial emergency room in Daytona Beach, doctors discovered the
ankle was broken. They set it in a soft cast, and sent the couple home to
Clearwater.
Janet saw her regular doctor and an orthopedic specialist within the next week.
By the following Monday, just over a week after the slip at the waterfall, she
went back to work as an office worker with Allstate.
But because her ankle was still swollen and tender and she hadn't been feeling
very well, Pete went to pick her up early from work to go see another doctor.
She was waiting for him outside.
"Janet was slumped over when I pulled up. I thought she was kidding because I
took so long to get there," Pete said. "When I got closer, I saw it was no
joking matter."
Pete started CPR and screamed for someone to call an ambulance.
Janet never regained consciousness. She was pronounced dead that Monday
afternoon just after arriving at Humana Northside hospital in St. Petersburg.
When a bone breaks, the blood inside often seeps out into the bloodstream. It
sometimes forms clots that travel in the body, according to Dr. Mike Lozano,
assistant medical director of emergency services at Bayfront Medical Center in
St. Petersburg. Lozano was not involved in Janet's treatment.
Often, the clots lodge near the point of injury; other times, they make it
through the heart and into the lung, Lozano said. If the clot is big enough, it
will clog up the heart or a large vein or artery near the heart. That is what
happened to Janet.
"A saddle embolus is so large it gets stuck in the pulmonary artery leading
from the heart to the lungs," Lozano said. "It's like a dam. When the blood
flow stops, the heart stops."
A saddle embolism can be as large as an adult's thumb. "When it's that big,
(death) happens real quickly," he said.
Lozano said this is the first time in eight years as a doctor that he has heard
of a death from a saddle embolism in someone as young and active as Janet.
Emerito, who now lives with his mother in Palm Harbor, says he feels Janet is
still with him.
"I can still function because of her," he said. "I get all my inner strength
from her. She might not be here in body, but she is here in spirit."
Pete swears he wasn't asleep and dreaming on two recent mornings when Janet
came to him in the predawn darkness.
"People think I'm crazy, but twice now, while I was waking up - and wide awake
- at 4:30 a.m., she was there," he said. "The first time she said, "Pete, wake
up. You'll be late for work.' "
He says he told her "no way," that he was waiting for the alarm clock to go off
and went back to sleep. Pete, who works at a retirement home in Largo, was late
that morning.
The second time, Pete said Janet told him to look in the mailbox for a check.
"I wasn't expecting any checks," he said. "But she had taken an insurance
policy on the loan she took for her wedding dress. They paid it off and sent me
the extra.
"There isn't a day that goes by that I don't wake up and say good morning to
her," he said. "I depend more on her now than I did when she was here. I really
learned love isn't measured in time, it's measured in intensity," Pete said.
"What we had was short, but intense."
Pete and Janet Emerito were married 19 days.
barb
This in no way relates to Lisa McPherson's death.
You lot seem fond of ignoring the fact that she lost 45 lbs in her 17
days of Scientology custody, and that the ME originally attributed her
death to dehydration. Throw us all the thromboses and embolisms you care
to, it doesn't change the facts of Lisa McPherson's demise in
Scientology care, nor does it alter the fact that the ME abruptly
changed her diagnosis, quit her job, and vanished.
Gosh, you don't suppose the Cherch of Scientology had anything to do
with that, do you?
barb
1000 cases of death by embolism will in no way divert attention to the
real reason Lisa McPherson died in Scientology custody.
Your attempt to cloud the issue is pathetically clamlike. The arrogance
of your cult towards wogs(tm) makes you sadly vulnerable. People aren't
as stupid as you assume them to be.
Kevin G! Brady
Lurk- howdy. I submit that arguing with critics is a total waste of time.
Their minds are made up, they are committed to fighting scientology,
regardless of the truth, in fact, in spite of it. Many are committed to
distorting everything a scientologist has to say, in order to try to make it
seem absurd.
My suggestion is to present your views, and only discuss them with people
who are not bent on alter-is and invalidation. That's what a killfile can
help with. Soon, you will only be having discussions with people who know
the difference between dialog and diatribe.
Remember Ron's injunctions about Q&A. It is a waste of time, and a good way
to get keyed in. If a person cannot confront truth, and "already knows",
they cannot learn. Arguing only causes others with similar o/w to pile on,
to protect their feeling of certainty about their worldview.
A word of advice. You could be spending your time more valuably, as I have
learned.
kgb
RAM7275a
>bruises
>but died six days later, an inquest heard today.
Close, but no cigar...this guy died 6 days after an accident, not 17...plus
there is no mention of extreem weight lose. No mention of dehydration from the
embolism.
Roz
Starshadow
<furnitur...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2fea...@drn.newsguy.com...
Good try, clambot, but this is not a "minor auto accident" or anything
similar, what it was was a broken ankle.
Why are you having such trouble with reading comprehension? Could it be
that much vaunted "study tek"??
Tigger
Bottom line: Lisa McPherson died after two weeks of being in the care
of incompetents who followed treatments that weren't fit for man or
beast.
Lisa McPherson died because she was taken from a hospital and subjected
to inhumane treatments for 17 days by a bunch of poor brainwashed
followers of L Ron Hubbard.
Perhaps the COS experts can tell you why a person would be allowed to
lose 45 pounds in seventeen days. Why her mother was not notified of
her daughter's condition? Why, when the scientologists awoke from their
brainwashed stupors and finally realized Lisa was dying (or dead) she
was taken to a hospital far away when, if she had been taken to a closer
one, she might have been saved.
The COS and the Scientologists are guilty on several levels here, not
just one.
Geesh, are you trying to convince us or yourself that the COS is not
responsible for Lisa McPherson's torture and death?
I really feel sorry for you. I hope you wake up from your delusion very
soon.
Tigger
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I DON'T GIVE THEM HELL. I JUST TELL THEM THE TRUTH AND THEY THINK IT'S
HELL."'
Harry S. Truman (GIVE 'EM HELL, HARRY)
U. S. President
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Krotz
to answer my question. The guestion still stands. Can you cite any
similar incidents?
MK
Keith Henson
wrote:
>On Sun, 20 Jan 2002 07:33:13 -0600 (CST), boobook...@webtv.net
>(Tigger) wrote:
snip
>>And Lurkmonster, you need to face the truth. Becaue of the teachings of
>>L. Ron Hubbaard, Lisa McPherson was tortured and died.
>>
>You need to face the fact that the medical examiner and a whole lot of
>medical experts disagree with you.
Can you name even *one* medical expert with the opinion Lisa died as a
result of the 5 mph traffic accident who is not being paid by
scientology?
Keith Henson
Mike Krotz
MK
Mike Krotz
$cientology tech in action!
MK
furnitur...@hotmail.com
said...
Krotz, the unprofessional asked for an example of something similar, a minor
auto accident injury causing a clot which caused a death. That's what he got.
You are a piece of work.
furnitur...@hotmail.com
said...
Idiot. Krotz is all his unawareness asked for an example of something
similar, a minor auto accident injury causing a clot which caused a death.
Understand what "similar" is?
Mike Krotz
Cheap attempt at forging my website address and low blow personal
insults. Ugly like a car crash. NOTHING TO SEE HERE FOLKS, JUST
SCIENTOLOGY AT WORK. MOVE ALONG. NOTHING TO SEE HERE.
http://www.fornikulture.com
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/sp/PI.html
MK
furnitur...@hotmail.com
<20020120175353...@mb-fu.aol.com>, ram7...@aol.com said...
>
>Close, but no cigar...this guy died 6 days after an accident, not 17...plus
>there is no mention of extreem weight lose. No mention of dehydration from the
>embolism.
>
>Roz
Another illiterate! Krotz asked for something "similar". Look it up.
Now please reread the two items below. Please read carefully and when fully
understood get back with me with a pertinent comment.
>On Sat, 19 Jan 2002 23:40:03 -0500, Mike Krotz <M...@fornikulture.com> wrote:
>Please give an example where a similar, minor auto accident injury
>caused a death by way of such a clot and embolism.
Birmingham Evening Mail
July 28, 2000, Friday
BIKE RIDER DIED DAYS AFTER ACCIDENT
A MOTORBIKE rider from Wednesbury walked away from a road accident with bruises
but died six days later, an inquest heard today.
Stuart Steven Clee, 38, from Riverway, was riding his motor bike along Heath
furnitur...@hotmail.com
<nAI28.5592$CW3....@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>, "Starshadow" said...
Minor car accident you must have? No falls, no boat accidents, no sports
injuries, nothing else will do? You must have a car accident? Here's you car
accident:
furnitur...@hotmail.com
>Lurkmonster "did me one better" and cited an unrelated type of incident
>to answer my question. The guestion still stands. Can you cite any
>similar incidents?
>
>MK
I already did Krotz. Wake up.
Boudewijn van Ingen
>On Sun, 20 Jan 2002 09:15:10 -0800, barb <bwa...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>Lurkmonster wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sun, 20 Jan 2002 07:02:29 -0800, barb <bwa...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> >Lurkmonster wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> On Sat, 19 Jan 2002 21:30:10 -0500, Mike Krotz <M...@fornikulture.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> >Yeah right, bruises from car door handles kill people all the time.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >MK
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Lurkmonster wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> On 20 Jan 2002 01:13:49 GMT, mabo...@aol.com (MABosnos) wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>>Lurkmonster: "... Scientology does not
>>> >> >>>shorten your life."
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>Not unless your name is Lisa McPherson.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> So a scientologist has a car accident and develops a blood clot that
>>> >> >> travels to her lung scientology is to blame?
>>> >> >>
>>> >> Yeah and you know better than a medical examiner and a whole lot of
>>> >> medical experts.
>>> >
>>> >By ignoring the facts, you can't make them go away.
>>> >Lisa McPherson lost 45 lbs in Scientology custody in 17 days! That is
>>> >not normal.
>>> >Then she died.
>>> >The Medical Examiner determined her death to be due to dehydration. She
>>> >suddenly changed her decision the the one Scientology liked better
>>> >(blood clot) quit her job, and vanished.
>>> >
>>> >Her diagnosis is, in light of her behavior, to be held suspect, as we
>>> >know what kind of pressure Scientology is willing to bring on people.
>>> >Some people, when intimidated, get more determined. Others fold.
>>> >
>>> >And let's not forget the good Scientology doctor who's license was
>>> >suspended for a year for providing perscription drugs to the unqualified
>>> >Scientologists who monitored Lisa's last days, hmmm?
>>> >
>>> >You can keep on trying to reduce this event to the simplistic version
>>> >your cult promotes, Lurky. Your argument here is nothing but dogged
>>> >repetition of the party line. Like your argument about the Narconon
>>> >scam, you cannot win as long as those tedious little facts keep getting
>>> >in your way, and people continue to point them out.
>>>
>>> What you don't seem to realize is your "tedious little facts" are just
>>> the best you critics can come up with to black PR scientology. You
>>> being one sided (having never studied both sides of the argument as I
>>> have) don't notice or refuse to see that I have exposed them
>>> for the distortions they are.
>>
>>But Lurky, you offer no argument! The best you can do is parrot the
>>party line over and over and over...I have read both sides. It's pretty
>>easy for someone not hoodwinked and blinkered by the cult to draw a
>>conclusion.
>>
>>What distortions are you referring to?
>>The fact that McPherson died after being held by Scientologists for 17
>>days?
>>The fact that she lost 45 pounds while in their "care?"
>>The fact that untrained personnel dosed her with illegally obtained
>>perscription drugs?
>>The fact that the doctor who provided the perscriptions was suspended
>>for a year?
>>The fact that the ME in the case overturned her own diagnosis in favor
>>of Scientology's, quit her job and vanished?
>>The fact that death caused by an embolism does not result in
>>catastrophic weight loss, but death by dehydration does?
>>
>>Do tell, Lurky! Please to elaborate on your statement!
>Heh hehehe, Barb you are funny. You might want to check some of
>my other responses to your questions you might find they expose you.
Lurkmonster, perhaps you should become aware of the fact that most people do
not regard the death of a human being as being 'funny' at all. Especially
not if that death apparently could have been avoided.
Groeten,
Boudewijn.
"Faith doesn't move mountains: it levels buildings." -- David Rice
Boudewijn van Ingen
>>Heh hehehe, Barb you are funny. You might want to check some of
>>my other responses to your questions you might find they expose you.
>
>
>Lurkie, dear, you are getting very tiresome.Your just NOT getting the hint that
>you are NOT answering the questions put to you.
>
>I got better answers from my children when they were younger. "Who ate all the
>cookies?" Son: "I did, Mom" Me: "Why? and before dinner!" Son: "because
>I wanted them".
>
>At least he didn't lie, and he gave me a straight answer, took his punishment
>like a "man".
>
>You, on the other hand, Lurkie, keep giving answers that equate to "What
>cookies, Mom".
>
>Lurkie, dear, will you please just give us an honest "Gee, I really don't know
>the answer." At least it's an honest answer!
>
>MomRoz
>
Don't mind 'lurkie'. He can't communicate, because he took courses with the
$cientology cult.
Deana M. Holmes
Dear Furniture (I can call you that, right?):
The cases you have presented are generally dissimilar to the case of Lisa
McPherson in one huge respect, one that you've failed to comment upon. That
would be the fact that Lisa did not receive any medical care until she was
comatose and possibly even dead. Moreover, her condition was not one of a
stroke victim, but rather one of a woman who was malnourished and
dehydrated.
When this finally comes to trial, you can present all the cases of
pulmonary emboli that you want, but you're going to have a most difficult
time explaining away how Lisa was locked in a room with 24 hour unskilled
caretakers and being overseen by a defrocked doctor. It's apparent from
even the logs we have that Lisa was not getting enough fluids.
I don't know what your game is, Furniture, but it's a pretty stupid one.
You're not fooling anyone (except for maybe yourself).
Deana Holmes
mir...@sonic.net
furnitur...@hotmail.com
>On Sun, 20 Jan 2002 14:14:33 GMT, Lurkmonster <lurkm...@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 20 Jan 2002 07:33:13 -0600 (CST), boobook...@webtv.net
>>(Tigger) wrote:
>
>snip
>
>>>And Lurkmonster, you need to face the truth. Becaue of the teachings of
>>>L. Ron Hubbaard, Lisa McPherson was tortured and died.
>>>
>>You need to face the fact that the medical examiner and a whole lot of
>>medical experts disagree with you.
>
>Can you name even *one* medical expert with the opinion Lisa died as a
>result of the 5 mph traffic accident who is not being paid by
>scientology?
>
>Keith Henson
The M.E.
furnitur...@hotmail.com
The one that counts. Joan Wood. You're out of the loop. Fugitive.
The Tampa Tribune
February 23, 2000
Wood has changed the "manner of death" to read "accident." The "immediate cause
of death" is listed as a blood clot in the lungs that migrated from a bruise
behind her left knee. Wood lists "other significant conditions" as "psychosis
and history of auto accident."
furnitur...@hotmail.com
<Anti...@galacticfederation.homeip.net> wrote:
>On 20 Jan 2002 16:43:35 -0800.
>In Message-ID: <a2fo7...@drn.newsguy.com>
>From: furnitur...@hotmail.com.
>Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com].
>Wrote on the subject: Re: Mark Bunker : Great thanks from others:
>
>>On Sun, 20 Jan 2002 14:25:45 -0800, in article <3C4B43E9...@cox.net>, barb
>>said...
>>>
>>>furnitur...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:25:31 -0500, in article
>>>> <3C4AEF7...@fornikulture.com>, Mike said...
>>>> >
>>>> >I didn't ask you to do better. I asked for an example of something
>>>> >similar, a minor auto accident injury causing a clot which caused a death.
>>>> >
>>>> >MK
>>>>
>>>> Here's one for you.
>>>>
>>>> Birmingham Evening Mail
>>>> July 28, 2000, Friday
>>>> BIKE RIDER DIED DAYS AFTER ACCIDENT
>>>>
>>>>A MOTORBIKE rider from Wednesbury walked away from a road accident with bruises
>>>> but died six days later, an inquest heard today.
>>>>
>>>>Stuart Steven Clee, 38, from Riverway, was riding his motor bike along Heath
>>>>Lane, West Bromwich, when he collided with a car on July 18 this year. Mr Clee,
>>>>a single unemployed carer, suffered bruising in the accident and was taken to
>>>> Sandwell General Hospital for treatment and was later discharged.
>>>>
>>>>The West Bromwich hearing heard how six days later Mr Clee telephoned for an
>>>> ambulance complaining of breathlessness.
>>>>
>>>> Suffered
>>>>
>>>> When paramedics arrived at the scene Mr Clee was confused and suffered a
>>>> respiratory arrest.
>>>>
>>>>Deputy Sandwell Coroner, Mr Paul Griffiths, said Mr Clee was rushed to Sandwell
>>>> General Hospital where he later died.
>>>>
>>>>He said: 'Although attempts were made to revive him Mr Clee he sadly passed away
>>>> in hospital. A post mortem examination revealed the cause of death was a
>>>> pulmonary embolism as a result of a deep vein thrombosis.
>>>>
>>>>'Obviously this was caused as a result of the bruising sustained in the motor
>>>> accident.'
>>>>
>>>> The inquest was adjourned to a date to be fixed.
>>>
>>>This in no way relates to Lisa McPherson's death.
>>
>>Idiot. Krotz is all his unawareness asked for an example of something
>>similar, a minor auto accident injury causing a clot which caused a death.
>>Understand what "similar" is?
>
>Hey mafia cultist. Sleep tight until you're caught :-)
>
>SAZ
Go do something productive like antagonize Minton into doing the job of outing
Dorian when in fact you have claimed you have outed him already.
furnitur...@hotmail.com
<Anti...@galacticfederation.homeip.net> wrote:
>On 20 Jan 2002 16:38:52 -0800.
>In Message-ID: <a2fnu...@drn.newsguy.com>
>From: furnitur...@hotmail.com.
>Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com].
>Wrote on the subject: Re: Mark Bunker : Great thanks from others:
>
>>On Sun, 20 Jan 2002 14:28:09 -0800, in article <3C4B4479...@cox.net>, barb
>>said...
>>>
>>>furnitur...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:25:31 -0500, in article
>>>> <3C4AEF7...@fornikulture.com>, Mike said...
>>>> >
>>>> >I didn't ask you to do better. I asked for an example of something
>>>> >similar, a minor auto accident injury causing a clot which caused a death.
>>>> >
>>>> >MK
>>>>
>Hell awaits you mafia cultist. Until then, sleep, sleep, sleep...
>
>SAZ
That's some statement coming from an atheist.
furnitur...@hotmail.com
>I was wondering when this would begin... Look closely folks, this is
>$cientology tech in action!
>
>MK
Yeah, calling you on your bullshit.
>furnitur...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:25:31 -0500, in article
>> <3C4AEF7...@fornikulture.com>, Mike said...
>>
>>>I didn't ask you to do better. I asked for an example of something
>>>similar, a minor auto accident injury causing a clot which caused a death.
>>>
>>>MK
>>>
>>
furnitur...@hotmail.com
>Thank you. But the question was not directed at you.
>
>MK
>
Dumbass. This is usenet. Not your personal correspondence line.
Boudewijn van Ingen
<tabula_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>"Lurkmonster" <lurkm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:nv3m4usghmrufsvml...@4ax.com...
>> On 20 Jan 2002 18:32:02 GMT, ram7...@aol.com (RAM7275a) wrote:
>>
>> >>Heh hehehe, Barb you are funny. You might want to check some of
>> >>my other responses to your questions you might find they expose you.
>> >
>> >
>> >Lurkie, dear, you are getting very tiresome.Your just NOT getting the
>hint that
>> >you are NOT answering the questions put to you.
>> >
>> >I got better answers from my children when they were younger. "Who ate
>all the
>> >cookies?" Son: "I did, Mom" Me: "Why? and before dinner!" Son:
>"because
>> >I wanted them".
>> >
>> >At least he didn't lie, and he gave me a straight answer, took his
>punishment
>> >like a "man".
>> >
>> >You, on the other hand, Lurkie, keep giving answers that equate to "What
>> >cookies, Mom".
>> >
>> >Lurkie, dear, will you please just give us an honest "Gee, I really don't
>know
>> >the answer." At least it's an honest answer!
>> >
>> >MomRoz
>> >
>> Well if you look you will see that I have given honest answers here
>> many times. You and others are not used to honesty so you don't
>> recognize it. The mud patties slung around here sure are not the
>> cookies they are pretended to be.
>
>Lurk- howdy. I submit that arguing with critics is a total waste of time.
>Their minds are made up, they are committed to fighting scientology,
>regardless of the truth, in fact, in spite of it. Many are committed to
>distorting everything a scientologist has to say, in order to try to make it
>seem absurd.
>
>My suggestion is to present your views, and only discuss them with people
>who are not bent on alter-is and invalidation. That's what a killfile can
>help with. Soon, you will only be having discussions with people who know
>the difference between dialog and diatribe.
>
>Remember Ron's injunctions about Q&A. It is a waste of time, and a good way
>to get keyed in. If a person cannot confront truth, and "already knows",
>they cannot learn. Arguing only causes others with similar o/w to pile on,
>to protect their feeling of certainty about their worldview.
>
>A word of advice. You could be spending your time more valuably, as I have
>learned.
>
>kgb
>
Yeah, you too could make fun about other people dying. If you just keep your
ears and eyes shut.
And while you're at it, the $cientology org of course wants you to keep your
mouth zipped too...
Then *they* will tell you what you *know*.
Mike Krotz
marvel to see in action?
MK
furnitur...@hotmail.com
>No, I would say "a piece of work" defines whoever the f*** you are.
>Cheap attempt at forging my website address and low blow personal
>insults. Ugly like a car crash. NOTHING TO SEE HERE FOLKS, JUST
>SCIENTOLOGY AT WORK. MOVE ALONG. NOTHING TO SEE HERE.
>
Yeah, folks. Nothing here to see except Krotz being shown the
fool he is.
furnitur...@hotmail.com
>No, I would say "a piece of work" defines whoever the f*** you are.
>Cheap attempt at forging my website address and low blow personal
>insults. Ugly like a car crash. NOTHING TO SEE HERE FOLKS, JUST
>SCIENTOLOGY AT WORK. MOVE ALONG. NOTHING TO SEE HERE.
>
Forging your website. What a loon. Isn't your email address FORNIKULTURE?
Please read more carefully and look up what "forge" means.
Yeah move along folks, Krotz doesn't want you to see his foolishness.
Mike Krotz
Word clearing 101, I think...
It all depends on what your definition of "forgery" and "similar" is.
Just define it however you like!
MK
furnitur...@hotmail.com
<Anti...@galacticfederation.homeip.net> wrote:
>On 20 Jan 2002 16:50:12 -0800.
>In Message-ID: <a2fok...@drn.newsguy.com>
>From: furnitur...@hotmail.com.
>Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com].
>Wrote on the subject: Re: Mark Bunker : Great thanks from others:
>
>>On 20 Jan 2002 22:53:53 GMT, in article
>><20020120175353...@mb-fu.aol.com>, ram7...@aol.com said...
>>>
>>>Close, but no cigar...this guy died 6 days after an accident, not 17...plus
>>>there is no mention of extreem weight lose. No mention of dehydration from the
>>>embolism.
>>>
>>>Roz
>>
>>Another illiterate! Krotz asked for something "similar".
>
>It wasn't similar you illiterate scientology asshole. Lisa wasn't hurt
>in that fender bender, this example you gave was a real injury.
>
>Get some education you killer!
>
>SAZ
You okay?
furnitur...@hotmail.com
<Anti...@galacticfederation.homeip.net> wrote:
>On 20 Jan 2002 17:02:57 -0800.
>In Message-ID: <a2fpc...@drn.newsguy.com>
>From: furnitur...@hotmail.com.
>Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com].
>Wrote on the subject: Re: Mark Bunker : Great thanks from others:
>
>No you didn't you insane scientology asshole. That wasn't similar at
>all.
There could be a problem with the translation to Swedish.
>At the trial asshole, your cult will get grilled. You know it, that's
>why they ordered you here.
LOL. They?
>One day though, you will hopefully pay for your crimes, with a long jail
>sentence.
Pretty hostile there buddy. Is everything okay at home, there?
>Until then asshole, EAT SHIT!
>
>SAZ
Spoken like a true gentleman.
furnitur...@hotmail.com
>
>Dear Furniture (I can call you that, right?):
Yes. Please do.
>The cases you have presented are generally dissimilar to the case of Lisa
>McPherson in one huge respect, one that you've failed to comment upon.
The cases presented were posted as a response to a specific question by Krotz.
Are you going to be posting any more Dandar docs on the case?
Keith Henson
Perhaps I should have included more than just the ones being paid to
those who were politically ruined by scientology.
By the way, can you cite where you saw this?
Keith Henson
barb
>
> I was wondering when this would begin... Look closely folks, this is
> $cientology tech in action!
>
> MK
Yeah, you gotta wonder what they're trying to divert attention from.
Look, Lurkmonster is pulled from mothballs and the Cosmoline is rinsed
off.
Our psych posters are busy, and it's not even Thursday! This Dorian fool
got new batteries, and now this stupid "furniture" bozo is typing away
like mad.
I just love it when the cult gets all "spontaneous!" It means they're
trying to cover something up!
>
> furnitur...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:25:31 -0500, in article
> > <3C4AEF7...@fornikulture.com>, Mike said...
> >
> >>I didn't ask you to do better. I asked for an example of something
> >>similar, a minor auto accident injury causing a clot which caused a death.
> >>
> >>MK
> >>
> >
> > Krotz, you are one lousy investigator. Unprofessional to the extreme.
> > Even with the help of Emmons and your girlfriend, Peterson, you couldn't find a
> > beachball if you were balancing it on your nose.
> >
> >
--
Barb
Chaplain, ARSCC
http://members.home.net/bwarr1/index.htm
SHOULD THE GOVERNMENT INVESTIGATE $CIENTOLOGY? Sign the petition at
http://www4.PetitionOnline.com/cofs1/
"Every week, every month, every year, every decade and now
every century, Scientology does weird and stupid things
to damage its own reputation."
-Steve Zadarnowski
"Comparing Scientology to a motorcycle gang is a gross, unpardonable
insult to bikers everywhere. Even at our worst, we are never as bad as
Scientology."
-ex-member, Thunderclouds motorcycle "club"
"$cientology sees the world this way: One man with a picket sign:
terrorism. Five thousand people dead in a deliberate inferno: business
opportunity.
$cientology oozes _under_ terrorists to hide."
-Chris Leithiser
Mike Krotz
"cute" in its similarity to that of my fornikulture.com address.
Thanks for displaying the level of discourse one can expect from
adherents to your "religion."
MK
furnitur...@hotmail.com wrote: