Can't sleep -- Hubbard Clown will eat me!
Android Cat
http://classics.goldeneraproductions.org/pics/std/lrh/lrh09_b.jpg
They have the one of "Snake" instructing the Hubbard dummy too:
http://classics.goldeneraproductions.org/pics/std/lrh/lrh02_b.jpg
http://classics.goldeneraproductions.org/en_US/l-ron-hubbard/
The retro-fabrication of Hubbard's past is especially thick on this page,
and they're trying to push the first publication of Dianetics back to 1947:
"In 1947, he collected notes drawn from numerous case histories amassed
through preceding years of testing, and prepared a thesis detailing both
underlying theory and techniques. Copies of the manuscript were distributed
to medical and scientific circles, then eagerly recopied and passed to
friends. In that way, Ron's original thesis on Dianetics saw immediate and
wide circulation."
Funny, I recently checked what Hubbard was doing in 46-47 and there was
nothing like that. The only case history he was circulating was his own
medical history with phony injuries and illnesses added to try and defraud
the Navy out of more money. He married his second wife and later was
divorced by his first. What a guy!
"Today, that thesis is published as The Dynamics of Life. The work was
followed, in late 1949, with an article written expressly for The Explorers
Journal entitled "Terra Incognita: The Mind".
"To meet the veritable flood of inquiries from readers, Ron was next urged
to author a definitive text on the subject."
The Astounding Science-Fiction article (which they never mention) was
already in the pipeline at that point, and mentioned by Campbell in
Astounding as upcoming. I would really love to track down a reference for
that issue of The Explorers Journal, especially one that CoS couldn't have
tampered with.
--
Ron of that ilk.
Phil Scott
"Android Cat" <androi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6152d$43ea8377$cf700d3b$11...@PRIMUS.CA...
> Ye gods! CoS's clownification of Hubbard is worse than I
> thought!
>
> http://classics.goldeneraproductions.org/pics/std/lrh/lrh09_b.jpg
amazing.
roger gonnet
"Android Cat" <androi...@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
6152d$43ea8377$cf700d3b$11...@PRIMUS.CA...
> Ye gods! CoS's clownification of Hubbard is worse than I thought!
>
> http://classics.goldeneraproductions.org/pics/std/lrh/lrh09_b.jpg
Geat art! Fantastic painter... full speed imaginative artwork! Communicates a
lot about elrong! quite on-tech-on-policy!!
Muldoon
roger gonnet wrote:
> "Android Cat" <androi...@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
> 6152d$43ea8377$cf700d3b$11...@PRIMUS.CA...
> > Ye gods! CoS's clownification of Hubbard is worse than I thought!
> >
> > http://classics.goldeneraproductions.org/pics/std/lrh/lrh09_b.jpg
>
> lot about elrong! quite on-tech-on-policy!!
Notice, to L. Ron's left, in the background, is a lone leering SP.
On L. Ron's right are the masses of adoring humanoids.
And L. Ron himself, interested, thoughtful, and with boundless
compassion.
A very nice water color painting. Are these available for framing, and
for wall display?
banchukita
Piltdown Man
Android Cat <androi...@hotmail.com> wrote...
<snip>
> "Today, that thesis is published as The Dynamics of Life. The work was
> followed, in late 1949, with an article written expressly for The
> Explorers Journal entitled "Terra Incognita: The Mind".
>
> "To meet the veritable flood of inquiries from readers, Ron was next
> urged to author a definitive text on the subject."
>
> The Astounding Science-Fiction article (which they never mention)
Nor do the Freezone heretics, I noted in one of their recent websites
publicised here. They also jump straight from the alleged Explorers Journal
article to the book version of Dianetics, a real pity, since that issue of
Astounding has *such* a lovely cover illustration, too!
> was already in the pipeline at that point, and mentioned by Campbell in
> Astounding as upcoming. I would really love to track down a reference
> for that issue of The Explorers Journal, especially one that CoS
> couldn't have tampered with.
Why don't you try the Explorers Club itself? It's online at
http://explorers.com. I have no idea whether they'd respond to just an
email inquiry asking for a copy of that article, but surely there must be
some critic or other who lives in or near New York, and who could arrange a
visit to the Explorers Club library/archive, to look at the 1949/1950
issues of the Journal? Organisations like that normally offer access to
researchers. And that's if you want to go straight to the source. Surely
there must be other publicly available libraries in the US that carry the
publication too.
Android Cat
> Android Cat wrote:
>> "Today, that thesis is published as The Dynamics of Life. The work
>> was followed, in late 1949, with an article written expressly for
>> The Explorers Journal entitled "Terra Incognita: The Mind".
>>
>> "To meet the veritable flood of inquiries from readers, Ron was next
>> urged to author a definitive text on the subject."
>>
>> The Astounding Science-Fiction article (which they never mention) was
>> already in the pipeline at that point, and mentioned by Campbell in
>> Astounding as upcoming. I would really love to track down a
>> reference for that issue of The Explorers Journal, especially one
>> that CoS couldn't have tampered with.
>>
>
> jou...@explorers.org
>
> Ask if they can locate the article in their archives.
Yes certainly, but my worry is that if CoS wanted to cover their tracks,
that would be the first place they'd tamper with. CoS has done events
involving the Explorers Club over the years, at least one recently. Since
the journal was a soft cover stapled publication, even producing a few
altered copies with Hubbard's article added then dropped back into the
Club's collection wouldn't be impossible. (Which is why knowing when the
Explorer Club publication was *first* mentioned in CoS publications would be
good. If it's mentioned in the foreword of the 1950 D:MSMH, well, that
solves that!)
What be be nice (baring someone unearthing a copy from the attic, untouched
for decades, to check) would be something like the Library of Congress that
had made a list of the contents of the issue a long time ago and hopefully
out of reach on an Operation Snowjob in the past.
I don't insist that Hubbard *wasn't* published in that issue. It's short
and vague enough that he could probably slide it past editors who needed
filler copy for an issue. (The winter-spring issue is a bit puzzling since
other cites of issues of that time seem to show that it was a quarterly,
with winter and spring as seperate issues.)
It's not exactly important, but I'd *love* to drop a /cite required/ on this
in the Dianetics wiki article. (The cite currently points back to CoS, duh!)
Rev. Norle Enturbulata
"roger gonnet" <r...@antisectes.net> wrote in message
news:43eb0d9d$0$27912$626a...@news.free.fr...
Note the golden glow coming from Hubbard, as if to enlighten the world.
Well, almost. His cult has been enlightening the world lately about
Scientology's true nature quite a lot!
See a.b.s. for an inspired off-shoot.
--
http://BuffaloScientologyInfo.com - http://www.xenu.net
http://PerkinsTragedy.org - http://www.xenutv.net
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.com
http://www.scientology-lies.com
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
http://www.scientology-kills.org
Rev. Norle Enturbulata
"Church" of Cartoonism
*
* " You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way
you can control anybody is to lie to them."
* -- L. Ron Hubbard, "Technique 88"
*
* "...Never discuss Scientology with the critic. Just discuss his or her
crimes, known and unknown. And act completely confident that those crimes
exist...."
* L. Ron Hubbard, "Critics of Scientology", November 5, 1967
*
* "All men shall be my slaves! All women shall succumb to my charms! All
mankind shall grovel at my feet and not know why!"
- L. Ron Hubbard, "Personal Affirmations"
Android Cat
> Android Cat <androi...@hotmail.com> wrote...
>> was already in the pipeline at that point, and mentioned by
>> Campbell in Astounding as upcoming. I would really love to track
>> down a reference for that issue of The Explorers Journal, especially
>> one that CoS couldn't have tampered with.
>
> Why don't you try the Explorers Club itself? It's online at
> http://explorers.com.
Search engine spam page, mainly for Ford Explorers.
http://explorers.org is the correct one. The Journal is a quarterly now,
and seemed to be then, which does make me wonder about a "Winter-Spring"
issue.
> I have no idea whether they'd respond to just an
> email inquiry asking for a copy of that article, but surely there
> must be some critic or other who lives in or near New York, and who
> could arrange a visit to the Explorers Club library/archive, to look
> at the 1949/1950 issues of the Journal? Organisations like that
> normally offer access to researchers. And that's if you want to go
> straight to the source. Surely there must be other publicly available
> libraries in the US that carry the publication too.
See my reply to maggie about why I'd prefer a non-Explorers Club source.
banchukita
Android Cat wrote:
> banchukita wrote:
> > Android Cat wrote:
>
> >> "Today, that thesis is published as The Dynamics of Life. The work
> >> was followed, in late 1949, with an article written expressly for
> >> The Explorers Journal entitled "Terra Incognita: The Mind".
> >>
> >> "To meet the veritable flood of inquiries from readers, Ron was next
> >> urged to author a definitive text on the subject."
> >>
> >> The Astounding Science-Fiction article (which they never mention) was
> >> already in the pipeline at that point, and mentioned by Campbell in
> >> Astounding as upcoming. I would really love to track down a
> >> reference for that issue of The Explorers Journal, especially one
> >> that CoS couldn't have tampered with.
> >>
> >
> > jou...@explorers.org
> >
> > Ask if they can locate the article in their archives.
>
> Yes certainly, but my worry is that if CoS wanted to cover their tracks,
> that would be the first place they'd tamper with. CoS has done events
> involving the Explorers Club over the years, at least one recently. Since
> the journal was a soft cover stapled publication, even producing a few
> altered copies with Hubbard's article added then dropped back into the
> Club's collection wouldn't be impossible. (Which is why knowing when the
> Explorer Club publication was *first* mentioned in CoS publications would be
> good. If it's mentioned in the foreword of the 1950 D:MSMH, well, that
> solves that!)
>
Understood.
> What be be nice (baring someone unearthing a copy from the attic, untouched
> for decades, to check) would be something like the Library of Congress that
> had made a list of the contents of the issue a long time ago and hopefully
> out of reach on an Operation Snowjob in the past.
>
I think Library of Congress was on the Snow white list...
Any major metro library ought to be able to locate a copy of this
periodical via inter-library loan, microfiche or some other way.
Librarians get *really* annoyed when people mess with archives; a few
sentences of explanation should be enough to interest a librarian to
help you locate an unscathed copy!
> I don't insist that Hubbard *wasn't* published in that issue. It's short
> and vague enough that he could probably slide it past editors who needed
> filler copy for an issue. (The winter-spring issue is a bit puzzling since
> other cites of issues of that time seem to show that it was a quarterly,
> with winter and spring as seperate issues.)
>
Was it published in two segments (although you mention it is short)?
That's the only reason I could think of for the "winter-spring"
wierdness.
Piltdown Man
Android Cat <androi...@hotmail.com> wrote...
> Piltdown Man wrote:
> > Android Cat <androi...@hotmail.com> wrote...
> >> was already in the pipeline at that point, and mentioned by
> >> Campbell in Astounding as upcoming. I would really love to track
> >> down a reference for that issue of The Explorers Journal, especially
> >> one that CoS couldn't have tampered with.
> >
> > Why don't you try the Explorers Club itself? It's online at
> > http://explorers.com.
>
> Search engine spam page, mainly for Ford Explorers.
Sorry, I mistyped .com out of habit (I had the correct .org page open in my
browser).
<snip>
> See my reply to maggie about why I'd prefer a non-Explorers Club source.
I can't help but think you're being somewhat paranoid. Do you really think
it's realistic that to support just one tiny, insignificant claim among the
huge number of easily demonstrable huge lies that make up the LRH myth,
they would go to the length of (a) first producing a forgery of a 1949 or
1950 issue of the Explorers Journal, but with a falsified Hubbard article
substituted for something else; (b) then proceed to locate all possible
places where there might be a copy of that magazine in the archives of the
Explorers Club (including, quite probably, at least one copy in a bound
volume); and (c) then replace all those with their forgery? All this
without anybody at the Explorers Club noticing, and all just in case many
years later some Scientology critic might go and have a look to see if a
minor claim about an article about Dianetics appearing in that obscure
publication is true? Did they make plans to break into the Library of
Congress to replace their copy too, and of course into all the other
libraries that might have copies, and all the private homes of all the
members of the Explorers Club and subscribers to the Journal in 1949, and
possibly their heirs, who might also have copies? It just doesn't make much
sense to me.
You also seem to be ascribing a much higher degree of competence and
planning to the way Hubbard (and subsequently the organisation he set up)
lied. He just told one easily demonstrable whopper after the other, without
ever taking into account that somebody might go and check up on him. To
name one easy example: his claims about all the medals he'd won. Surely
anybody with half a brain would realize such claims can be easily checked?
Not Hubbard, and not his followers to this day, apparently. For god's sake,
he even claimed to have gotten a medal from the Dutch government with a
name he just made up. If someone wants to pretend having a Dutch medal,
you'd think the least they would do in an attempt to make it seem
plausible is to use the name of a medal that actually *exists*. Hubbard's
habit of telling lies that fall apart as soon as they're subjected to the
most superficial scrutiny continues to this day in Scientology propaganda.
(This is a common pattern among pathological liars, I might add. A somewhat
rational person who systematically tells lies will take into account the
fact that the people who he's telling lies to might check up on him.) Why
would they have gone to extraordinary lengths to falsify documentation to
support this one tiny little point, which for all we know might actually be
true? What does it matter whether or not he managed to get an article about
Dianetics printed in what appears to have been a newsletter for members of
a small club? Actually, I hope it's true. The whole claim is so pathetic --
if this was supposedly a major scientific breakthrough, why wasn't the
first publication about it in a major scientific journal?
Jommy Cross
<pilt...@ivehaditwiththespam.sorry> wrote in msg
<01c62dbe$843a7ea0$LocalHost@gateway>:
>
>Android Cat <androi...@hotmail.com> wrote...
>
>> Piltdown Man wrote:
>> > Android Cat <androi...@hotmail.com> wrote...
>> >> was already in the pipeline at that point, and mentioned by
>> >> Campbell in Astounding as upcoming. I would really love to track
>> >> down a reference for that issue of The Explorers Journal, especially
>> >> one that CoS couldn't have tampered with.
>> >
>> > Why don't you try the Explorers Club itself? It's online at
>> > http://explorers.com.
>>
>> Search engine spam page, mainly for Ford Explorers.
>
>Sorry, I mistyped .com out of habit (I had the correct .org page open in my
>browser).
>
><snip>
>> See my reply to maggie about why I'd prefer a non-Explorers Club source.
>
>I can't help but think you're being somewhat paranoid. Do you really think
>it's realistic that to support just one tiny, insignificant claim among the
>huge number of easily demonstrable huge lies that make up the LRH myth,
>they would go to the length of (a) first producing a forgery of a 1949 or
>1950 issue of the Explorers Journal, but with a falsified Hubbard article
>substituted for something else; (b) then proceed to locate all possible
>places where there might be a copy of that magazine in the archives of the
>Explorers Club (including, quite probably, at least one copy in a bound
>volume); and (c) then replace all those with their forgery?
I can't speak for Android Cat, but I'd sure be interested in evidence of
*some* replacement. I agree it could be hard to do all of it, which is why
finding some might be possible.
<snip>
> It just doesn't make much
>sense to me.
Why should it have to make sense? There are numerous accounts of Ron in the
full pomp of his batshitness making lunatic demands his "make it go right"
followers felt they had to carry out, using their spooky Tone 40
powerzzzz..
>
>You also seem to be ascribing a much higher degree of competence and
>planning to the way Hubbard (and subsequently the organisation he set up)
>lied. He just told one easily demonstrable whopper after the other, without
>ever taking into account that somebody might go and check up on him. To
>name one easy example: his claims about all the medals he'd won. Surely
>anybody with half a brain would realize such claims can be easily checked?
>Not Hubbard, and not his followers to this day, apparently. For god's sake,
>he even claimed to have gotten a medal from the Dutch government with a
>name he just made up. If someone wants to pretend having a Dutch medal,
>you'd think the least they would do in an attempt to make it seem
>plausible is to use the name of a medal that actually *exists*. Hubbard's
>habit of telling lies that fall apart as soon as they're subjected to the
>most superficial scrutiny continues to this day in Scientology propaganda.
>(This is a common pattern among pathological liars, I might add. A somewhat
>rational person who systematically tells lies will take into account the
>fact that the people who he's telling lies to might check up on him.)
This is one of the better arguments I've ever heard for Hubbard being a
pathological liar.
>Why
>would they have gone to extraordinary lengths to falsify documentation to
>support this one tiny little point, which for all we know might actually be
>true?
For the same reason they tried to get His Ronness a Nobel Prize in the
'60s. So much for spooky OT powerzzz, huh?
>What does it matter whether or not he managed to get an article about
>Dianetics printed in what appears to have been a newsletter for members of
>a small club? Actually, I hope it's true. The whole claim is so pathetic --
>if this was supposedly a major scientific breakthrough, why wasn't the
>first publication about it in a major scientific journal?
>
Duh! Because Ron was a misunderstood genius, dumbass!
He was a rough, tough explorer philosopher, not some pencil neck pantywaist
who could do more complicated sums than long division.
Incident zero: Ron trolled them
Ever yours in fandom,
Jommy Cross
---------------------------------------------------
This message brought to you by Radio Free Albemuth:
before you hallucinate
--------------------------------------------------
cultxpt
banchukita
Didn't Operation Snow White dictate exactly what you describe above?
Since when does an Scn, Inc. operation have to make sense?
>
> You also seem to be ascribing a much higher degree of competence and
> planning to the way Hubbard (and subsequently the organisation he set up)
> lied. He just told one easily demonstrable whopper after the other, without
> ever taking into account that somebody might go and check up on him.
I disagree. See Operation Snow White.
To
> name one easy example: his claims about all the medals he'd won. Surely
> anybody with half a brain would realize such claims can be easily checked?
Now, yes. Then, no.
> Not Hubbard, and not his followers to this day, apparently. For god's sake,
> he even claimed to have gotten a medal from the Dutch government with a
> name he just made up. If someone wants to pretend having a Dutch medal,
> you'd think the least they would do in an attempt to make it seem
> plausible is to use the name of a medal that actually *exists*.
You'd think. But that didn't stop him.
Hubbard's
> habit of telling lies that fall apart as soon as they're subjected to the
> most superficial scrutiny continues to this day in Scientology propaganda.
> (This is a common pattern among pathological liars, I might add. A somewhat
> rational person who systematically tells lies will take into account the
> fact that the people who he's telling lies to might check up on him.)
Well, maybe that's why he put a lot of energy into the PTS/SP course,
creating the whole 'war' mindset within an organizational standard
operating procedure that has pumped hundreds of millions of dollars
into litigation and ad hominem against anyone who would be inclined to
disagree with him.
Why
> would they have gone to extraordinary lengths to falsify documentation to
> support this one tiny little point, which for all we know might actually be
> true? What does it matter whether or not he managed to get an article about
> Dianetics printed in what appears to have been a newsletter for members of
> a small club? Actually, I hope it's true. The whole claim is so pathetic --
> if this was supposedly a major scientific breakthrough, why wasn't the
> first publication about it in a major scientific journal?
True that.
But it's become a sort of hobby, to locate and shine the light of truth
on Hub's twists of truth.
Is that by itself enough to bring the cosmic searchlight of truth out
to shine on Scn, Inc? No, but every candle added together makes one big
light that's hard to ignore.
-maggie, human being
Android Cat
> Android Cat wrote:
> Any major metro library ought to be able to locate a copy of this
> periodical via inter-library loan, microfiche or some other way.
> Librarians get *really* annoyed when people mess with archives; a few
> sentences of explanation should be enough to interest a librarian to
> help you locate an unscathed copy!
Sure. It's just a thought that occured to me when I noticed that I couldn't
find an online independent confirmation of that publication.
>> I don't insist that Hubbard *wasn't* published in that issue. It's
>> short and vague enough that he could probably slide it past editors
>> who needed filler copy for an issue. (The winter-spring issue is a
>> bit puzzling since other cites of issues of that time seem to show
>> that it was a quarterly, with winter and spring as seperate issues.)
>
> Was it published in two segments (although you mention it is short)?
> That's the only reason I could think of for the "winter-spring"
> wierdness.
From the article on the CoS site, it's just a page of Hubbard filler.
Possibly CoS is "creeping" the date into 1949 so that they can hide the May
1950 Astounding. (Published in April.)
http://www.dianetics.org/en_US/l-ron-hubbard/articles/terra/
Android Cat
>>
>> Was it published in two segments (although you mention it is short)?
>> That's the only reason I could think of for the "winter-spring"
>> wierdness.
>
> From the article on the CoS site, it's just a page of Hubbard filler.
> Possibly CoS is "creeping" the date into 1949 so that they can hide
> the May 1950 Astounding. (Published in April.)
>
> http://www.dianetics.org/en_US/l-ron-hubbard/articles/terra/
Whoops, my mistake. It's five pages of Hubbard cage-liner.
Android Cat
>> source.
>
> I can't help but think you're being somewhat paranoid. Do you really
> think it's realistic that to support just one tiny, insignificant
> claim among the huge number of easily demonstrable huge lies that
> make up the LRH myth, they would go to the length of (a) first
> producing a forgery of a 1949 or 1950 issue of the Explorers Journal,
> but with a falsified Hubbard article substituted for something else;
> (b) then proceed to locate all possible places where there might be a
> copy of that magazine in the archives of the Explorers Club
> (including, quite probably, at least one copy in a bound volume); and
> (c) then replace all those with their forgery?
All they would have to do is replace a *few* archive copies at the Explorers
Club, maybe the Library of Congress. All the microfiche copies and web
indexes would be created from those copies--if a substitution was done long
enough ago. This wasn't a high quality glossy production like modern
National Geographics. (It might have been more like a high quality fanzine
of the day.)
The Explorers Journal probably didn't have a wide circulation at the time,
and over time, most of those would be lost or forgotten. Few people would
ever check back to it to find the Hubbard article, especially if CoS didn't
start mentioning it until after any tampering was done. (Do CoS histories
from the 1960s mention the Explorers Journal article?) True Believers who
looked for that issue but didn't find the article could be fobbed off with
the same kind of excuses as why Hubbard's name wasn't in the credits of
movies he claimed to have wrote. ("Uuuhh, there was this mix-up and uuuh
they didn't get my story until printing had already started. So uhh the
President of the Explorer Club himself rushed to the printer and shouted
stop the presses! And they typeset my story on the spot and just added it
right in. They wanted to destroy all the copies that didn't have my story,
uuuuh but I told them that would be kind of expensive for the Club and
people should just buy my book in a few months. Annnd they did! By golly,
they did! <laughter>")
As for why, Hubbard and CoS tried to downplay his whole sci-fi writer career
for a long period. It probably sent him into tirades every time a newspaper
mentioned Dianetics or Scientology and added "... first published in 1950 in
a science-fiction magazine". It wouldn't be out of character for him to
petulantly order a small operation to make it go right by inventing a prior
publication. Compared to the Snow White convictions or the IRS campaign, it
would be small and low risk. (Simple bribery would work.) The Minimum
Necessary Change is quite small.
This is only a possibility, but so long as it's possible, I'd prefer not to
rely on the Explorer Club records.
Never underestimate CoS's willingness to expend large amounts of cash and
work on very stupid projects.
Piltdown Man
Jommy Cross <jommycross@[127.1]> wrote...
> On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 15:23:11 -0600, "Piltdown Man"
> <pilt...@ivehaditwiththespam.sorry> wrote in msg
> <01c62dbe$843a7ea0$LocalHost@gateway>:
<snip>
> > It just doesn't make much sense to me.
>
> Why should it have to make sense? There are numerous accounts of Ron in
> the full pomp of his batshitness making lunatic demands his "make it go
> right" followers felt they had to carry out, using their spooky Tone 40
> powerzzzz..
But that makes sense in the warped world of Hubbard's batshitness.
Expending huge amounts of effort trying to forge evidence for one tiny
little claim about an article in the Explorers Club Journal, which is
probably true anyway, but true or not isn't central to anything at all
doesn't.
> >You also seem to be ascribing a much higher degree of competence and
> >planning to the way Hubbard (and subsequently the organisation he set
> >up) lied. He just told one easily demonstrable whopper after the other,
> >without ever taking into account that somebody might go and check up on
> >him. To name one easy example: his claims about all the medals he'd won.
> >Surely anybody with half a brain would realize such claims can be easily
> >checked? Not Hubbard, and not his followers to this day, apparently.
> >For god's sake, he even claimed to have gotten a medal from the Dutch
> >government with a name he just made up. If someone wants to pretend
> >having a Dutch medal, you'd think the least they would do in an attempt
> >to make it seem plausible is to use the name of a medal that actually
> >*exists*. Hubbard's habit of telling lies that fall apart as soon as
> >they're subjected to the most superficial scrutiny continues to this
> >day in Scientology propaganda. (This is a common pattern among
> >pathological liars, I might add. A somewhat rational person who
> >systematically tells lies will take into account the fact that the
> >people who he's telling lies to might check up on him.)
>
> This is one of the better arguments I've ever heard for Hubbard being a
> pathological liar.
And that despite the fact that the concluding words of my first sentence,
"than seems warranted", which I did type, somehow disappeared during the
editing process.
> >Why
> >would they have gone to extraordinary lengths to falsify documentation
> >to support this one tiny little point, which for all we know might
> >actually be true?
>
> For the same reason they tried to get His Ronness a Nobel Prize in the
> '60s. So much for spooky OT powerzzz, huh?
Again, that makes sense within the Hubbard universe: wanting to get a
prestigious award, and having lost contact with reality to such an extent
that he no longer realized how stupid this idea was. Creating forged
documentary evidence for the publication of an article in the ECJ preceding
the publication of the book version of Dianetics doesn't seem similar at
all.
Piltdown Man
Android Cat <androi...@hotmail.com> wrote...
<snip>
> All they would have to do is replace a *few* archive copies at the
> Explorers Club, maybe the Library of Congress.
You make it sound so very simple.
> All the microfiche copies and web
> indexes would be created from those copies--if a substitution was done
> long enough ago.
Do you have any evidence that *anybody*, *ever* tried to mess with
publications held in the Library of Congress in this way?
<snip>
> The Explorers Journal probably didn't have a wide circulation at the
> time, and over time, most of those would be lost or forgotten.
> Few people would ever check back to it to find the Hubbard article,
Why would they bother in the first place? The truth of the claim is pretty
much irrelevant, whether you're a True Believer or not. Which is why I tend
to think it's probably true.
> especially if CoS didn't start mentioning it until after any tampering
> was done.
I still don't understand why you assume this one unimportant mention of an
article in the Explorers Club Journal would be so important to Hubbard that
they would go to such extraordinary, and so far completely hypothetical,
lengths to fabricate evidence and forge such an article into existence,
when all of Scientology propaganda is brimming with major, fundamental lies
that can easily be shown to be lies, and for which they've never bothered
to provide any evidence. What is amusing about their history of the
original publication of Dianetics is how they (and at least parts of the
Freezone, too) have airbrushed the original publication in Astounding
Science Fiction out of existence. If they wanted to falsify archives, why
haven't they attempted to remove all copies of that Astounding issue from
all libraries, including the Library of Congress, and replace it with a
forged version of their own, as you suggest they could have done with the
ECJ? It would seem a much more likely target for such a harebrained scheme.
And once again, what reason do you have for suspecting that the ECJ article
was a later invention? If it was the kind of publication it seems to be,
the editor was probably more than happy to publish just about anything
submitted by members, as long as the pages got filled.
<snip>
> As for why, Hubbard and CoS tried to downplay his whole sci-fi writer
> career for a long period.
Of course.
> It probably sent him into tirades every time a newspaper mentioned
> Dianetics or Scientology and added "... first published in 1950 in a
> science-fiction magazine". It wouldn't be out of character for him
> to petulantly order a small operation to make it go right by
> inventing a prior publication.
How would inventing a prior publication in an obscure little magazine make
the prior publication in Astounding go away, and all the subsequent
mentions of that publication as well?
> Compared to the Snow White convictions or the IRS campaign, it
> would be small and low risk. (Simple bribery would work.)
What you're saying is that it's easy to bribe the staff of the Library of
Congress, and of libraries of record in general, to replace publications
they hold with forgeries. I'm sorry, but that's a pretty extraordinary
claim, and I would like to see some extraordinary evidence for it.
> The Minimum Necessary Change is quite small.
It take it "Minimum Necessary Change" is a bit of Hubbardese. However small
a publication the ECJ was: first forging an issue, and then replacing all
copies in existence, in public and private libraries, including ones in
bound ledgers and possibly ones on microfilm or microfiche, with that
forgery isn't a small operation at all. Again: can you name just *one*
example of *anyone* *ever* trying something like this? This is not like
stealing or messing with legal files that are only kept in one location,
let alone like using private investigators to dig up dirt on IRS officials
for blackmail purposes.
> This is only a possibility, but so long as it's possible, I'd prefer not
> to rely on the Explorer Club records.
Then who are you willing to rely on? You've already stated that you believe
Scientology could have done the same thing to copies in the Library of
Congress. If you don't trust the archives of the original publisher, and
you don't trust the, according to you easily bribed, Library of Congress
staff, surely any copies you might locate from other sources would be even
more suspect?
> Never underestimate CoS's willingness to expend large amounts of cash
> and work on very stupid projects.
Sorry, I don't buy into the logic: "Scientology does a lot of stupid
things. This is a stupid thing. Therefore, Scientology must have done it."
Especially since the "it" is not just hypothetical but impracticable.