I see that now after leaving. I would never ask for a
refund...because 1) an agreement is just that, and 2) you do get
benefit of services. The best, actually.
"steelerfreak" <jack_h...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Do what you need to do, but remember that things are not always as they
seem. Maybe you got some benefit, but not everything you wanted from
it. That's life, man. They will probably give you any refund you
deserve......but, think about it. Perhaps it's not their fault.
That's where I'm at right now. I hold myself accountable for what
happens good....and bad.
Have you considered trying life outside of a cult? You'd be amazed at your
Apart from any success or failure of the "tech", or personally
there are some other issues I feel strongly about.
An analogy to illuminate these is in order:
How would you feel if you went into a dealership and bought a car,
signed the papers and drove off the lot. Only to find later that the
things you were told about the car and the dealer and the salesperson
had many important details missing, and some things represented were
You find out that rather than new, the car is actually used. Actually,
it's a salvage title from being in a wreck. It's worth far less than
you paid for it. And that the dealer actually had no license for
business, it's mechanics were not professionally trained and for the
price you paid, you could have gotten a new far more reliable car with
a much higher real value.
And that perhaps, the dealer and salesperson had criminal records and
used the dealership to launder money and support other criminal
Balancing all that, you DO have a car. It runs, takes you from place to
place as other cars do and only occasionally breaks down. Your
agreement was to buy a car and you did. You paid for it and it works.
You get some of the benefits you were looking for.
Now: What you experienced at the dealership was fraud. You were lied
to, manipulated and you were not getting what you thought, from
representations made to you, you were buying. Even though you agreed
and bought it and have the car, does not diminish the initial criminal
And so it is with the so called "church of scientology". They sell what
they sell under false pretenses, omitted material facts about Hubbard
and his "tech", and use outright lies from Hubbard and others to
convince you to buy. The claims that are made are far beyond what
people actually achieve.
That you achieve *some* benefit, that *parts of it* met your
expectations are not justifications that can legitimize the fraud. The
"agreements" were made based on false, omitted and misleading
information, in an environment where you disuaded from making any
independent verification of the claims and information or finding out
if there was omitted information that might be material to your
The basis for calling it fraud and getting your money back has nothing
to do with you getting something you think was of value.
The con man always gives you *something*. It deliberately makes you
feel shamefull about being outraged by the con.
It's important to sort out what actually happens. Unless it was a fully
informed decision, with all information that would bear on your
"agreement" freely available to you, it is not a contract. It is not a
real agreement. It is fraud and you need not feel dishonest for
demanding return of monies dishonestly obtained from you.
Michael Leonard Tilse
That is a very good analogy. ARS is full of great ones today.