consequences of involvement in scientology

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Shawn M. Hollenshead

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May 24, 2006, 10:34:30 PM5/24/06
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You are going to spend lots of money or lots of time. If you have money or
access to money then you will be persuaded to spend it. I personally spent
my college savings on scientology services and for 3 years I spent 8 hours a
day at the church studying so that I could get the results I was promised. I
lived very poorly for those 3 years and realized that I had nothing to show
for all my hard work. It is scary to come to such a conclusion. I am
currently seeking a refund from scientology as I feel that the services did
not improving my life the way that I was promised they would.
I started in scientology when I was 18; I am 30 currently and feel like I am
just strting my adult life. This is only one repercussion of scientology.


Shawn


steelerfreak

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May 24, 2006, 10:47:58 PM5/24/06
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I'm nuetral here. But ask yourself if or not you did benefit in many
ways? My answer was yes. I have spoken to those who have left
Scientology and got a refund and regret it. Because it was dishonest.
I'm not speaking for Scientology, but there is a lot to be gained from
it.

I see that now after leaving. I would never ask for a
refund...because 1) an agreement is just that, and 2) you do get
benefit of services. The best, actually.

Skipper

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May 24, 2006, 10:57:22 PM5/24/06
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In article <1148525278....@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
steelerfreak <jack_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:

You're a complete liar.

steelerfreak

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May 24, 2006, 11:24:02 PM5/24/06
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Please explain Skip.

Best,
Jack

Shawn M. Hollenshead

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May 24, 2006, 11:26:44 PM5/24/06
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I feel that my request for a refund is the right thing to do.. When you are
sold something that doesn't perform as it should or only sometimes works the
way it is supposed to I don't see that as a fair exchage.
I am able to see if something has made a great difference in my life. I
think that it is dishonest to say something is beneficial to you if you
can't see the daily results in your hard work. I have no interest in letting
someone keep my money because I an agreement. Had scientology been as
effective as it was initially sold to me I would still be involved. An
agreement is based on fair exchange. If I buy a $60,000 BMW, it had better
be drivable otherwise I am not just ging to keep it parked in the garage as
a nice souvenir.


Shawn


"steelerfreak" <jack_h...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1148525278....@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

steelerfreak

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May 24, 2006, 11:41:01 PM5/24/06
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Shawn...I'm not a spokesman for Scientology. I''m in it (ethics) as
deeep as you..trust me on that. I withdrew when they asked me to
borrow $45,000 dollars. Also disconnect from my family. That threw
me into a tailspin I have never recovered from.

Do what you need to do, but remember that things are not always as they
seem. Maybe you got some benefit, but not everything you wanted from
it. That's life, man. They will probably give you any refund you
deserve......but, think about it. Perhaps it's not their fault.
That's where I'm at right now. I hold myself accountable for what
happens good....and bad.

steelerfreak

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May 24, 2006, 11:45:23 PM5/24/06
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Like I said, I don't speak for Scientology anymore than you do. Do
what you feel is right?
Best, Jack

Susan

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May 25, 2006, 3:23:10 AM5/25/06
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"steelerfreak" <jack_h...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1148528461.6...@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Jack,

Have you considered trying life outside of a cult? You'd be amazed at your
perspective.

Susan


ladayla

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May 25, 2006, 1:08:19 PM5/25/06
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Hello, Shawn,
Speaking for ARSCC ( wdne), I welcome you with open arms and an open
heart to the free world. Scn is not for everyone. It "works" for those
who have their minds right about how their eternity depends on approval
from scn. Congratulations for leaving, and vwd for getting out before
you wasted even more of your life chasing butterflies.I truly hope that
you did get something for your money, and for the pieces of your dreams
that you gave them.


la

goo...@draemr.com

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May 25, 2006, 5:25:25 PM5/25/06
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Hi Jack,

Apart from any success or failure of the "tech", or personally
perceived benefit,
there are some other issues I feel strongly about.

An analogy to illuminate these is in order:

How would you feel if you went into a dealership and bought a car,
signed the papers and drove off the lot. Only to find later that the
things you were told about the car and the dealer and the salesperson
had many important details missing, and some things represented were
outright lies?

You find out that rather than new, the car is actually used. Actually,
it's a salvage title from being in a wreck. It's worth far less than
you paid for it. And that the dealer actually had no license for
business, it's mechanics were not professionally trained and for the
price you paid, you could have gotten a new far more reliable car with
a much higher real value.

And that perhaps, the dealer and salesperson had criminal records and
used the dealership to launder money and support other criminal
enterprise.

Balancing all that, you DO have a car. It runs, takes you from place to
place as other cars do and only occasionally breaks down. Your
agreement was to buy a car and you did. You paid for it and it works.
You get some of the benefits you were looking for.

Now: What you experienced at the dealership was fraud. You were lied
to, manipulated and you were not getting what you thought, from
representations made to you, you were buying. Even though you agreed
and bought it and have the car, does not diminish the initial criminal
fraud.

And so it is with the so called "church of scientology". They sell what
they sell under false pretenses, omitted material facts about Hubbard
and his "tech", and use outright lies from Hubbard and others to
convince you to buy. The claims that are made are far beyond what
people actually achieve.

That you achieve *some* benefit, that *parts of it* met your
expectations are not justifications that can legitimize the fraud. The
"agreements" were made based on false, omitted and misleading
information, in an environment where you disuaded from making any
independent verification of the claims and information or finding out
if there was omitted information that might be material to your
agreeing.

The basis for calling it fraud and getting your money back has nothing
to do with you getting something you think was of value.

The con man always gives you *something*. It deliberately makes you
feel shamefull about being outraged by the con.

It's important to sort out what actually happens. Unless it was a fully
informed decision, with all information that would bear on your
"agreement" freely available to you, it is not a contract. It is not a
real agreement. It is fraud and you need not feel dishonest for
demanding return of monies dishonestly obtained from you.

Michael Leonard Tilse

Johnny Mike

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May 25, 2006, 5:28:18 PM5/25/06
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<goo...@draemr.com> wrote in message
news:1148592325.8...@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

That is a very good analogy. ARS is full of great ones today.

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