Amanda Keller Mohamed Atta's girlfriend
JimDBB
From the Mad Cow Morning News
Questions on the 1-year anniversary of a still-unsolved crime
by Daniel Hopsicker www.madcowprod.com
September 9— Venice.
Two stories currently unfolding in Venice FL offer glimpses behind the curtain
veiling the terrorist conspiracy's activities before the Sept 11 attack...
Arne Kruithof, one of the two ‘Magic Dutch Boys’ at the Venice FL Airport,
may have previously-undisclosed links to Zacharias Moussaoui, charged by the
United States government as an accomplice with Osama bin Laden and the 19
hijackers in the Sept. 11 suicide hijackings.
Kruithof was grilled for two days last week at the Sarasota FL court house
about his connections to Moussaoui by a Justice Dept. Asst. Attorney General
and top-level officials from the FBI, the MadCowMorningNews has learned.
The group was in town taking depositions from potential witnesses in
Moussaoui's upcoming trial.
Kruithof is the owner of the Venice flight school which trained Siad Al-Jarrah,
at the controls of the plane which went down in western Pennsylvania. Less
well-known is the fact his school also trained Ramzi Binalshibh, who lived at
the same Hamburg address as Atta and who is currently the ‘most wanted’
Hamburg cadre member.
But authorities have not hinted previously that Kruithof's contacts with
terrorists may have included dealings with Moussaoui, the alleged "20th
hijacker."
More to come.
Present whereabouts (still) a mystery
On another front, more is being learned about Mohamed Atta’s American
girlfriend. Amanda Keller and Mohamed Atta, you will recall, lived together in
her Venice apartment during March and early April of 2000, fully four months
before the FBI says Atta first entered the U.S.
Now the MadCowMorningNews has learned that Atta's former girlfriend is a member
of the inner circle of the secretive Church of Scientology, the so-called Sea
Organization, or Sea-Org, the controversial church's elite priesthood.
Based in Clearwater FL, (an hour north of Venice), Sea Org members dress in
naval style uniforms, live and eat communally, and sign, we were shocked to
discover, billion-year contracts with the organization, to achieve a goal they
describe as "freeing the planet."
By enlisting for a billion-year hitch, pledging them to the group for what
is— by any measure— a really long time, Sea-Org initiates symbolize their
commitment as "immortal spiritual beings."
We learned of Keller's Sea-Org membership when we happened upon a remarkable
series of letters on the Internet, the "Dear Amanda" letters, written by an
absent father to a daughter from whom he became estranged as a result, he
alleges, of her mother's becoming deeply involved with the Church of
Scientology.
His daughter Amanda was a student at an allegedly unaccredited private school
called Delphi Academy, run by Scientology. Keller questioned the education she
was receiving.
"What happens to Delphi’s students?" Steve Keller asks. "Where do they go?"
Good questions. Here's another:
Could Venice, FL possibly be one of the places they go?
In addition to having gone out with one of history's greatest villains,
"lingerie model" Amanda Keller is, apparently, also an Ensign in some wacky
private Navy, not to mention an "immortal spiritual being."
This jars with the image we'd formed of her, after hearing her described as a
bleached blond lingerie model wearing skin tight jeans.
Its hard to wear epaulets on a teddy.
Handmaiden to the stars?
Then we read that Sea-Org members have been described as "L. Ron Hubbard's
personal handmaidens."
Which Amanda did Mohamed Atta know? Handmaiden Amanda? Or Fantasies & Lace
Amanda?
Are Amanda's religio-naval eccentricities just interesting bits of local color
along Florida's languid Cracker Coast?
Had her affiliation to a strange and secretive religious organization had
something to do with her moving to Venice and meeting Atta?
Is it mere coincidence that she ended up renting an apartment directly across
from the Venice Airport in a building that was serving as a crash pad for
dozens of foreign nationals training to be pilots?
"Nobody in the Sea Org does anything without being told to," one disaffected
Scientologist told us. "If she was in Venice it was because that was where she
was told to be."
For her part, Ms Keller has spoken barely a dozen words to the press.
Authorities told her not to say anything at all about Atta, she told reporters
in her one quote...
"I can't really discuss anything," she said. "I'm afraid I'll get in trouble."
Charlotte L. Kates
The guy apparently did a Google search for "Amanda Keller" and returned the
Amanda Keller whose unfortunate story we know here on ARS.
Whether *that* Amanda Keller is *this* Amanda Keller is a subject he feels
free to speculate on, but backs up with nothing.
-charlotte
--
Charlotte L. Kates
cka...@eden.rutgers.edu ** cka...@ruwomenscenter.org
http://www.ruwomenscenter.org/ ** http://www.offlines.org
Practice organized resistance and conscious acts of solidarity!
"JimDBB" <jim...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020910122237...@mb-de.aol.com...
>
> From the Mad Cow Morning News
> Questions on the 1-year anniversary of a still-unsolved crime
>
> by Daniel Hopsicker www.madcowprod.com
> September 9- Venice.
> is- by any measure- a really long time, Sea-Org initiates symbolize their
Tilman Hausherr
<cka...@eden.rutgers.edu> wrote in <3d7e298a$1...@news2.lightlink.com>:
>Just to be clear, this is wild speculation.
Yes. And a pretty disgusting one.
--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP5.55] Entheta * Enturbulation * Entertainment
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.xenu.de
Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
Find broken links on your web site: http://home.snafu.de/tilman/xenulink.html
The Xenu bookstore: http://home.snafu.de/tilman/bookstore.html
Phil Scott
>Just to be clear, this is wild speculation.
>
>The guy apparently did a Google search for "Amanda Keller" and returned the
>Amanda Keller whose unfortunate story we know here on ARS.
>
>Whether *that* Amanda Keller is *this* Amanda Keller is a subject he feels
>free to speculate on, but backs up with nothing.
Correct.
The circumstantial evidence does though point in the direction of the cult.
How many babes would Atta be interested in, in the first place, that would just
happen to have that name, be in the appropriate age group for eligible babes, be
good looking enough to attract a man sworn to avoid strange women, and live
within an hour of Fort Homicide.
What are the odds. See? its an issue. But yes it could be a *different
Amanda Keller. :)
Then we have the cults existing saudi links, with OPEC, Rilwanu Lukman, and with
weapons salesman to the stars Adnan Kashogghi(sp).. Atta,and 8 other of the
terrorists were Saudi's...that is a lot of tuna swimming around in the same fish
bowl.
It will be interesting how this washes out. A lot of folks are all ready with
their filetting equipment.
Maybe there are 5,000 babes named Amanda Keller, age 18 to 25 or so running
loose going after Saudi's in the clearwater area. Damn if I know.
Too bad she said she 'couldnt talk or would get in trouble'...
That was an interesting remark, no?
A check of the area phone book for Kellers would be interesting. There were a
few dozen in the Marin county phone book alone, so there may indeed be a few
dozen in that area.... lets say there are 1,000 Kellers though.
1,000 Kellers for the sake of this discussion. How many would be named Amanda?
!? Maybe 10 at the very outside? dang. the odds narrow.... but lets say 10
were named Amanda... so with a life span of 60 years and us just looking in
the 18 to 25 year old range, how many Amanda's would be in *that age range.
All 10? Not too likely.
And how many in that age range would be babes as contrasted to the 50% destined
for skagdom. Not too many I dont think.
Maybe one at the most. Now is it the *cultie Amanda? We don't know. But we do
know she can't talk. Doesn't want to get into trouble, and there is an Amanda
Keller cultie who's mother lives and works 60 miles north for the cult of
scientology where Adnan Kashogghi, the saudi weapons trader to terrorists world
wide .... is a frequent visitor.
Dang. aint that jesst facnatin.
So the Amanda/ Atta deal is way more than a bit warm at this point as far as
leads go. Its like finding pee on a fire hydrant... it could have been your
grandmother.... its just more likely your dog that did it.
.... the cult is in bed big time with rich corrupt saudi's...Adnan for
instance....and its been proven its rich saudi's funding much of the terrorist
activity....and they use black market weapons... and that mess hovers around
Fort homicide 60 minutes to the north
...and both Hubbard and the Saudi's are on record against the US Christian based
culture. The Saudi's will not even allow a traveler to take a Christian bible
into their country. Hubbard derided the religion as well. So the cult and the
Saudi's have that also in common.... natural allies in that regard.
I sure hope this doesnt run Monique Yinglings and her short dick husbands
Feffers blood pressure up as they help the cult target people who are exposing
this mess. Imagine that, our own IRS heavies, helping this scum carry
ammunition. That has to be a clue you see, along with the heavy IRS links to
the CST...
Thats a lot of fish in the fishbowl...
www.FromTheWilderness.com see section on the CIA and drug running. Then
notice Adnan Kashogghi is in that mix as well.
Phil Scott
(415) 927 7573
Phil Scott
wrote:
>On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 13:11:10 -0400, "Charlotte L. Kates"
><cka...@eden.rutgers.edu> wrote in <3d7e298a$1...@news2.lightlink.com>:
>
>>Just to be clear, this is wild speculation.
>
>Yes. And a pretty disgusting one.
Well maybe, but speculation is the first part of any investigation... btw what
do you think the odd are in this case that its a different Amanda Keller, living
in near the cult and her mother the scientologist, in the right age group for
attracting Ata?
What are the odds that its a non scientology related Amanda?
Meantime yes, its a speculation based on a lot of circumstantial evidence, but
then OJ Simpson lost his civil trial on over whelming circumstantical
evidence...and enough circumstantial evidence also convicts in criminal courts.
So some evidence was presented...Im sure all the facts will come out to support
or disprove these early clues. The evidence, good or bad, though does need
to be posted as it comes in...I mean Tillman, babe, thats how any investigation
proceeds.
First you get a hint and a faint clue, then you gather evidence, them more
evidence either proves or disproves your first suspicions..
How many Amanda Keller babes age 18 to 25 are there in your town btw? ah yes
500 no doubt. Could be a coincidence.
Phil Scott
Tom Klemesrud
Phil Scott wrote:
>
> On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 21:24:38 +0200, Tilman Hausherr <til...@berlin.snafu.de>
> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 13:11:10 -0400, "Charlotte L. Kates"
> ><cka...@eden.rutgers.edu> wrote in <3d7e298a$1...@news2.lightlink.com>:
> >
> >>Just to be clear, this is wild speculation.
How do you know?
> >
> >Yes. And a pretty disgusting one.
>
> Well maybe, but speculation is the first part of any investigation... btw what
> do you think the odd are in this case that its a different Amanda Keller, living
> in near the cult and her mother the scientologist, in the right age group for
> attracting Ata?
>
> What are the odds that its a non scientology related Amanda?
>
> Meantime yes, its a speculation based on a lot of circumstantial evidence, but
> then OJ Simpson lost his civil trial on over whelming circumstantical
> evidence...and enough circumstantial evidence also convicts in criminal courts.
Perhaps its not speculation at all. Perhaps the writer contacted Steve
Keller, and he confirmed that his daughter lived at that address. The
article does lead to Steve Keller's email address.
Tom Klemesrud
"Charlotte L. Kates" wrote:
>
> Just to be clear, this is wild speculation.
We don't know that. All the writer would have to do is take this
picture found at http://www.ecentral.com/members/skeller/index.html to
the witnesses that the author interviewed here
http://www.madcowprod.com/index30.html and ask if that was the Amanda
Keller in question.
Then, it wouldn't be speculation at all, would it Charlotte? It would
be true.
But, then why would the FBI object so much with the 9/11 terrorists
being harbored by a staff member of a US criminal cult--that the FBI
helped get a 1993 IRS tax-exemption, by not prosecuting Justin Tanner
Petersen for security break-ins in 1991?
Tilman, could you check if when ATTA et al stayed in Hamburg, Germany,
if they were helped by the Hamburg cult members?
Beverly Rice
> On another front, more is being learned about Mohamed Atta’s American
> girlfriend. Amanda Keller and Mohamed Atta, you will recall, lived together in
> her Venice apartment during March and early April of 2000, fully four months
> before the FBI says Atta first entered the U.S.
>
> Now the MadCowMorningNews has learned that Atta's former girlfriend is a member
> of the inner circle of the secretive Church of Scientology, the so-called Sea
> Organization, or Sea-Org, the controversial church's elite priesthood.
Tom Klemesrud has the most logical resopnse of all to
this when he states:
"We don't know that. All the writer would have to do is take this
picture found at http://www.ecentral.com/members/skeller/index.html to
the witnesses that the author interviewed here
http://www.madcowprod.com/index30.html and ask if that was the Amanda
Keller in question."
Now, the writer of this article, and of course the govt. agencies
who are investigating this, should do just that.
I sure hope it isn't Steve's daughter, Amanda. He's had enough
heartbreak as it is, thanks to Ill Rum's "Disconnection" Policy
that Co$ forces upon it's members.
So, waiting for those who knew Atta and "Amanda" to see the
pic and give a reply.
ARC = As-ising the Real CST,
Beverly
ptsc
>Just to be clear, this is wild speculation.
This thread is sure sorting out the nuts from the sane people.
What a load of demented lunacy. With nonsense like this, no
wonder this newsgroup is viewed as a bunch of kooks and
crackpots.
ptsc
Charlotte L. Kates
Keller." It's not exactly the most uncommon of names, and it's distinctly at
odds with a portrayal of her as still in the SO.
In addition, the author's own description of his "research" (no mentions of
"sources close to the family corroborate", "documents confirm," etc) makes
it clear that if he's right at all, he took a wild guess. In general,
conspiracy theories require smoking guns. The distinct absence of one here
would logically lead to the presumption that it doesn't exist.
-charlotte
--
Charlotte L. Kates
cka...@eden.rutgers.edu ** cka...@ruwomenscenter.org
http://www.ruwomenscenter.org/ ** http://www.offlines.org
Practice organized resistance and conscious acts of solidarity!
"Phil Scott" <phils...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3d7ddcd4...@news.tdl.com...
Zinj
says...
> The odds are quite substantial, actually, of it being "another Amanda
> Keller." It's not exactly the most uncommon of names, and it's distinctly at
> odds with a portrayal of her as still in the SO.
>
> In addition, the author's own description of his "research" (no mentions of
> "sources close to the family corroborate", "documents confirm," etc) makes
> it clear that if he's right at all, he took a wild guess. In general,
> conspiracy theories require smoking guns. The distinct absence of one here
> would logically lead to the presumption that it doesn't exist.
>
> -charlotte
>
To tell you the truth... this issue reminds me much of the question of
Stacey Moxon's death when it came up.
Maybe Shakespeare was another guy by the same name.
Methinks thou protesteth too much.
Zinj
--
When in Danger, or in Doubt; Run in Circles, Scream and Shout -
ARS/Post Bobocalypse
anon...@remailer.hastio.org
Zinj <zinj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> In article <3d7e78c8$1...@news2.lightlink.com>, cka...@eden.rutgers.edu
> says...
> > The odds are quite substantial, actually, of it being "another Amanda
> > Keller." It's not exactly the most uncommon of names, and it's distinctly at
> > odds with a portrayal of her as still in the SO.
> >
> > In addition, the author's own description of his "research" (no mentions of
> > "sources close to the family corroborate", "documents confirm," etc) makes
> > it clear that if he's right at all, he took a wild guess. In general,
> > conspiracy theories require smoking guns. The distinct absence of one here
> > would logically lead to the presumption that it doesn't exist.
> >
> > -charlotte
> >
>
> To tell you the truth... this issue reminds me much of the question of
> Stacey Moxon's death when it came up.
Or the question of "Reverend" Al Buttnor's son being murdered in an
apparent drug deal gone bad in Edmunton Canada.
Ed
"Charlotte L. Kates" wrote:
>
> The odds are quite substantial, actually, of it being "another Amanda
> Keller." It's not exactly the most uncommon of names, and it's distinctly at
> odds with a portrayal of her as still in the SO.
>
> In addition, the author's own description of his "research" (no mentions of
> "sources close to the family corroborate", "documents confirm," etc) makes
> it clear that if he's right at all, he took a wild guess. In general,
> conspiracy theories require smoking guns. The distinct absence of one here
> would logically lead to the presumption that it doesn't exist.
>
> -charlotte
>
[snip all]
I emailed Hopsicker and got a reply as follows:
-----
she didn't escape.
they are the same girl.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed" <met...@aol.com>
To: <eco...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 4:57 PM
Subject: Amanda Keller
> Someone brought your excellent coverage of Atta/Amanda Keller to the
> newsgroup alt.religion.scientology. The question arises, is there
> anything at all to indicate that the two Amanda Kellers are the same
> person?. (Conceding they would be the same age and it is not a
> particularly common name.) Seems to me that if the Scientology Amanda
> escaped from the cult, she would have contacted her father for help
> and support and would not be living a sleazy life like Atta's girl.
>
> Ed
-----------
I've replied asking him how he knows they are the same girl.
Ed
Diane Richardson
What bothers me the most about this is how it *trivializes* last
year's tragedy.
It was bad enough when Minton & Co. dragged Lisa McPherson's
body through the dirt for his own purposes. Now we see Phil Scott,
Tom Klemesrud and Jim Beebe, trampling all over the 3,000 people
who were killed last September for their own excitement.
Truly disgusting.
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Tigger
>I emailed Hopsicker and got a reply as
> follows:
-----
>she didn't escape.
>they are the same girl.
Atta boy, Ed. Way to go.
Media who have the facts are afraid to take on Scientology. I was
thinking surely this guy had some kind of proof and wasn't just wildly
speculating or else he was the Fool of the Year and was going to get his
ass sued off for slander or soemthing.
Tigger
Tom Klemesrud
I don't know Diane. A staff member from the inner circle of
scientology, on the payroll of scientology, offering confort and
harboring the ringleader of the 9/11 terrorist attack, as the ringleader
learned how to fly a plane into the World Trade Center, six months
before he actually did it; is newsworthy, if it's true.
If it's not, I'm sure the cult will sue Daniel Hopsicker into utter ruin
as per their own policy. But, I think Hopsicker has already thought of
that.
M. Krotz
is quite common.
A middle initial would be helpful, or perhaps a middle name, or date of
birth. Then one might be able to actaully confirm or deny this story.
MK
Phil Scott
There was another young woman involved with the dark espionage side of the cult,
Sharon Thomas, a stunningly beautiful 19 year old at the Sacramento org at the
time I met her, open,, innocent clean, tall lithe blond, no make up... a world
class quality person...a very decent person.
. Then she joined the USGO and I met her a year later, heavy make up, jaded,
cynical and obviously no longer innocent, her remarks to me at the time
confirmed that and reports to this NG a few months ago about how she was used to
infiltrate US govt or corporate office (ive forgotten which now), and the
tactics used also confirm that the cult uses beautiful women, corrupting them as
necessary.
The fact that Amanda Keller has **dissappeared** and before that in her only
interview said she would 'get in trouble if she talked'... tells me that there
is a superbly excellent chance she was working for OSA, and in bed with Mohamed
Atta for the cults slime ball purposes.
Otherwise why would she 'get in trouble' if she talked.... dating a man who you
have no clue about is not a crime, not even much of a mistake. Who would she be
in 'trouble' with.... Thats an issue alright.
Enough can surely be found out about her to identify her. No doubt though the
cult will go to extreme ends to occlude and plant false evidence on her vapor
trail... none the less it should not be a problem to find out the necessary
identifying information. There will be people who will recognise her picture...
there should be some available.
Phil Scott
Phil Scott
Wow...thats some pretty good spin...out of thin air you fabricate this stuff...
while as time rolls on, its looking more and more like the cult is deep in bed
with terrorists. You trying to smoke over those connections sweetheart?
Phil Scott
Phil Scott
>I think what is important here is the fact that the name Amanda Keller
>is quite common.
>
>A middle initial would be helpful, or perhaps a middle name, or date of
>birth. Then one might be able to actaully confirm or deny this story.
I believe that information is being dug up as we speak... stay tuned.
Meantime can you whip out a copy of yer local clearwatta area phone books and
see how many kellers are listed and how many are Amanda's... Id hazard a guess
the pickings will be slim,,,then if you call to check on the age, that would
eliminate the kids and old ladies.... you'd be a little short on Amanda Keller
babes in the early 20's range imho.
But who knows... Id be interested in what you find. Its also be
interesting what Amanda said about getting into trouble if she talked... thats
not what someone would say that dated the guy by mistake....also the fact the
she has dissapeared...its a classic cult maneuver.
Phil Scott
>
Phil Scott
>JimDBB wrote:
>
>
>> On another front, more is being learned about Mohamed Atta’s American
>> girlfriend. Amanda Keller and Mohamed Atta, you will recall, lived together in
>> her Venice apartment during March and early April of 2000, fully four months
>> before the FBI says Atta first entered the U.S.
>>
>> Now the MadCowMorningNews has learned that Atta's former girlfriend is a member
>> of the inner circle of the secretive Church of Scientology, the so-called Sea
>> Organization, or Sea-Org, the controversial church's elite priesthood.
>
>
>
>Tom Klemesrud has the most logical resopnse of all to
>this when he states:
>
>"We don't know that. All the writer would have to do is take this
>picture found at http://www.ecentral.com/members/skeller/index.html to
>the witnesses that the author interviewed here
>http://www.madcowprod.com/index30.html and ask if that was the Amanda
>Keller in question."
Yes indeedie, thats what needs to be done...
Phil Scott
roger gonnet
"Tom Klemesrud" <tom...@WCTAtel.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
3D7E75E4...@WCTAtel.net...
>
>
> "Charlotte L. Kates" wrote:
> >
> > Just to be clear, this is wild speculation.
>
> We don't know that. All the writer would have to do is take this
> picture found at http://www.ecentral.com/members/skeller/index.html to
> the witnesses that the author interviewed here
> http://www.madcowprod.com/index30.html and ask if that was the Amanda
> Keller in question.
>
> Then, it wouldn't be speculation at all, would it Charlotte? It would
> be true.
>
> But, then why would the FBI object so much with the 9/11 terrorists
> being harbored by a staff member of a US criminal cult--that the FBI
> helped get a 1993 IRS tax-exemption, by not prosecuting Justin Tanner
> Petersen for security break-ins in 1991?
>
> Tilman, could you check if when ATTA et al stayed in Hamburg, Germany,
> if they were helped by the Hamburg cult members?
That's indeed an interesting question, since Hamburg is still probably
the top or second top city for scientology brainwashing attempts in
Germany. Their last ridicule footbulleting in Hamburg led to another
crazy criminal, supposed to be a US secret services colonel. In
Germany, they have tried more than once to establish relationships with
the Milli Goerues, another islamist group.
In France, they have also some links to islamism through their damned
souls and fooled-up henchmen, members of a rotten groupuscule of
pro-cultists, the Omnium des Libertés.
roger
roger gonnet
"ptsc" <ptsc AT nym DOT cryptofortress DOT com> a écrit dans le message
de news: jbvsnu0fqgd3t1b3a...@4ax.com...
Do you think you are so balanced mentally that you could think being
always right?
Get back into scientology extremisms, you'd be better fit there, Rob
;-))
roger
roger gonnet
"Diane Richardson" <ref...@bway.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
3d7ea72c...@news.giganews.com...
> On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 19:18:29 -0400, ptsc <ptsc AT nym DOT
> cryptofortress DOT com> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 13:11:10 -0400, "Charlotte L. Kates"
> ><cka...@eden.rutgers.edu> wrote:
> >
> >>Just to be clear, this is wild speculation.
> >
> >This thread is sure sorting out the nuts from the sane people.
> >What a load of demented lunacy. With nonsense like this, no
> >wonder this newsgroup is viewed as a bunch of kooks and
> >crackpots.
>
> What bothers me the most about this is how it *trivializes* last
> year's tragedy.
What bothers me most is that a tragedy having killed ten times as much
people in one night has gotten part of total of some 48 books in english
in 17 years, while 11st september has done 3000, but has gotten 700
books in one year.
And that one with 25-30000 deaths costed 2 billions paid after 14 years,
while the 3000 deads was estimated 1,5 million by person, (total 45
billions) plus the some 25-40 billions in materiel losses, totalling
therefore some 80 billions for 3000, instead of 2 billions for 30000.
I'd bet you won't guess why.
Neither will you find anything bizarre there, won't ya?
And don't say, like scientologists won't miss to say, that I do not
regret the 11 september deaths. I regret them. But what I regret most
here is that they have been done only because US politics don't share
any riches, and keeps on to stealother countries riches, like in
Argentine, Brazil, etc. And yes, US politics is not the only guilty one:
other rich countries have done similar decisions and actions.
roger
roger gonnet
"Beverly Rice" <dbj...@mpinet.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
3D7E77...@mpinet.net...
> JimDBB wrote:
>
>
> > On another front, more is being learned about Mohamed Attaā?Ts
American
> > girlfriend. Amanda Keller and Mohamed Atta, you will recall, lived
together in
> > her Venice apartment during March and early April of 2000, fully
four months
> > before the FBI says Atta first entered the U.S.
> >
> > Now the MadCowMorningNews has learned that Atta's former girlfriend
is a member
> > of the inner circle of the secretive Church of Scientology, the
so-called Sea
> > Organization, or Sea-Org, the controversial church's elite
priesthood.
>
>
>
> Tom Klemesrud has the most logical resopnse of all to
> this when he states:
>
> "We don't know that. All the writer would have to do is take this
> picture found at http://www.ecentral.com/members/skeller/index.html to
> the witnesses that the author interviewed here
> http://www.madcowprod.com/index30.html and ask if that was the Amanda
> Keller in question."
>
>
> Now, the writer of this article, and of course the govt. agencies
> who are investigating this, should do just that.
Yes, sure.
>
>
> I sure hope it isn't Steve's daughter, Amanda. He's had enough
> heartbreak as it is, thanks to Ill Rum's "Disconnection" Policy
> that Co$ forces upon it's members.
Now, it looks that a blown scientologist is much more fragile to lots of
potentail or true insanities than another person. Statistically, 54 % of
the scientologist leaving the cult are, by instance, thinking to suicide
(perhaps more now, the stat comes from "Snapping", by Flow Conway and
Jim Siegelmann.)
roger
Zinj
says...
I might mention French DGSE agents sinking a Greenpeace ship and
killing one of the relatively innocent people on board....
But, that would be rude :)
Zinj
My feeling has always been that Scientologists are 'fragile' in direct
correlation to their time in.
They don't think so, until they're 'out'. And mostly they don't think
so even when they're out, and react violently to suggestions that
their past 'training' is still affecting them.
While in, they believe they've become superhumanly 'able'.
Once escaped the cult's 'support structure' the 'trained' fragility
and 'brittleness' becomes apparent.
It's not crippling in general, but, Scientology leaves scars that last
years.
Wild mood swings and extreme reactions to irrelevancies are almost a
common characteristic.
This is not said to denigrate scientologists who have escaped, but to
note that the 'fragile' nature is a creation of the tech.
Beverly Rice
> There was another young woman involved with the dark espionage side of the cult,
> Sharon Thomas, a stunningly beautiful 19 year old at the Sacramento org at the
> time I met her, open,, innocent clean, tall lithe blond, no make up... a world
> class quality person...a very decent person.
>
> . Then she joined the USGO and I met her a year later, heavy make up, jaded,
> cynical and obviously no longer innocent, her remarks to me at the time
> confirmed that and reports to this NG a few months ago about how she was used to
> infiltrate US govt or corporate office (ive forgotten which now), and the
> tactics used also confirm that the cult uses beautiful women, corrupting them as
> necessary.
Meet Gabe Cazares - Former Mayor of Clearwater, Florida
... Sharon Thomas drove on. The mayor did not know that the “victim” of
the accident
was yet another GO agent, Michael Meisner. Scientology ran other
operations ...
> http://lisatrust.freewinds.cx/stories/activists/meetgabe2.htm
Washington Post - "US Charges Scientology Conspiracy" - 8/16/78
... IRS conference room here and "recorded an IRS meeting
concerning
Scientology's ... indictment said that as the plot continued: A
Scientologist,
Sharon Thomas ...
http://lisatrust.freewinds.cx/print/washpost-snowwhite-081678.htm?FACTNet
Scientology's Assault on Clearwater Florida
... April 26, 1976: Sharon Thomas -- the ... She copied all
documents
relating to a pending FOI lawsuit brought by Scientology against the
Energy Research and ...
http://www.holysmoke.org/cw12.htm
For starters.
Hope this helps.
ARC = As-Ising the Real CST,
Beverly
Beverly Rice
> Wow...thats some pretty good spin...out of thin air you fabricate this stuff...
> while as time rolls on, its looking more and more like the cult is deep in bed
> with terrorists. You trying to smoke over those connections sweetheart?
I don't think that is what Diane is doing.
It's simply that with charges that are as serious as Co$
connections with Atta or any other terrorists . . .
a ~LOT~ more proof is necessary to make it clear beyond
any shadow of doubt.
Zinj
By best intention, it's impossible to construe Diane's 'hits' as
'prudent refraint'.
More valuable is to ask 'Is this one of Diane's enemies? Friends?
Her 'published research' is consistently based on those questions.
Our comprehension of Diane should not fail to take that into account.
Monica Pignotti
Ever hear of Occam's Razor? I have a newsflash for Hopsicker. People
do leave the Sea Org -- I'd say the majority I knew in the 70s have
left. Many, many, children who grew up in the SO left when they came
of age. IMHO, the author has sunk lower than anyone in the CofS by
writing this sickening, sexist piece of trash.
Monica
jim...@aol.com (JimDBB) wrote in message news:<20020910122237...@mb-de.aol.com>...
> From the Mad Cow Morning News
> Questions on the 1-year anniversary of a still-unsolved crime
>
> by Daniel Hopsicker www.madcowprod.com
> September 9— Venice.
>
> Two stories currently unfolding in Venice FL offer glimpses behind the curtain
> veiling the terrorist conspiracy's activities before the Sept 11 attack...
>
>
> Arne Kruithof, one of the two ‘Magic Dutch Boys’ at the Venice FL Airport,
> may have previously-undisclosed links to Zacharias Moussaoui, charged by the
> United States government as an accomplice with Osama bin Laden and the 19
> hijackers in the Sept. 11 suicide hijackings.
>
> Kruithof was grilled for two days last week at the Sarasota FL court house
> about his connections to Moussaoui by a Justice Dept. Asst. Attorney General
> and top-level officials from the FBI, the MadCowMorningNews has learned.
>
> The group was in town taking depositions from potential witnesses in
> Moussaoui's upcoming trial.
>
> Kruithof is the owner of the Venice flight school which trained Siad Al-Jarrah,
> at the controls of the plane which went down in western Pennsylvania. Less
> well-known is the fact his school also trained Ramzi Binalshibh, who lived at
> the same Hamburg address as Atta and who is currently the ‘most wanted’
> Hamburg cadre member.
>
> But authorities have not hinted previously that Kruithof's contacts with
> terrorists may have included dealings with Moussaoui, the alleged "20th
> hijacker."
>
> More to come.
>
>
>
>
> Present whereabouts (still) a mystery
>
> On another front, more is being learned about Mohamed Atta’s American
> girlfriend. Amanda Keller and Mohamed Atta, you will recall, lived together in
> her Venice apartment during March and early April of 2000, fully four months
> before the FBI says Atta first entered the U.S.
>
> Now the MadCowMorningNews has learned that Atta's former girlfriend is a member
> of the inner circle of the secretive Church of Scientology, the so-called Sea
> Organization, or Sea-Org, the controversial church's elite priesthood.
>
> Based in Clearwater FL, (an hour north of Venice), Sea Org members dress in
> naval style uniforms, live and eat communally, and sign, we were shocked to
> discover, billion-year contracts with the organization, to achieve a goal they
> describe as "freeing the planet."
>
> By enlisting for a billion-year hitch, pledging them to the group for what
> is— by any measure— a really long time, Sea-Org initiates symbolize their
Monica Pignotti
> I don't know Diane. A staff member from the inner circle of
> scientology, on the payroll of scientology, offering confort and
> harboring the ringleader of the 9/11 terrorist attack, as the ringleader
> learned how to fly a plane into the World Trade Center, six months
> before he actually did it; is newsworthy, if it's true.
A very big ~if~. Theres no support that it is true. Only trashy
speculation.
> If it's not, I'm sure the cult will sue Daniel Hopsicker into utter ruin
> as per their own policy. But, I think Hopsicker has already thought of
> that.
If they do sue him, in this case, it is richly deserved. I'd just
like to know who the anonymous former Scientologist was that he quoted
so I can be sure to never give that person any further credibility or
support.
Monica
Monica Pignotti
>
> I emailed Hopsicker and got a reply as follows:
>
> -----
> she didn't escape.
> they are the same girl.
Well that's a not providing any evidence -- only assertions. I
wouldn't trust anyone who answers a question in that way. Like we're
just supposed to take his word for this?
> > Someone brought your excellent coverage of Atta/Amanda Keller to the
> > newsgroup alt.religion.scientology.
I couldn't disagree more, Ed. It's a tasteless, trashy piece of
nonsense.
>>The question arises, is there
> > anything at all to indicate that the two Amanda Kellers are the same
> > person?. (Conceding they would be the same age and it is not a
> > particularly common name.) Seems to me that if the Scientology Amanda
> > escaped from the cult, she would have contacted her father for help
> > and support and would not be living a sleazy life like Atta's girl.
I disagree. People are often very confused when they leave. Its
likely that her father was villified as an SP for years to her and
that she wouldn't necessarily trust him to come running to him even if
she did leave the SO.
> I've replied asking him how he knows they are the same girl.
Also, what evidence is there that she is currently a SO member. Well
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for actual evidence.
Monica
M. Krotz
Amanda Keller with driver's licenses or ID cards in Florida. None of
them live anywhere near Venice, where Atta was living, nor near
Clearwater. As I have said previously, a middle initial would help in
confirming this claim, as would a date of birth.
MK
Tom Klemesrud
Monica Pignotti wrote:
>
> Tom Klemesrud <tom...@WCTAtel.net> wrote in message news:<3D7EE0A5...@WCTAtel.net>...
>
> > I don't know Diane. A staff member from the inner circle of
> > scientology, on the payroll of scientology, offering confort and
> > harboring the ringleader of the 9/11 terrorist attack, as the ringleader
> > learned how to fly a plane into the World Trade Center, six months
> > before he actually did it; is newsworthy, if it's true.
>
> A very big ~if~. Theres no support that it is true. Only trashy
I don't know what's so trashy about it. I take it by your response that
when you were in the cult you never engaged in a "covert operation" for
the cult.
Hopsicker said the girl is still in, and the Amanda Keller in question
is the cult member. He is a respected writer, and he had done a lot of
research on this story. There is nothing to support that it is false.
> speculation.
>
> > If it's not, I'm sure the cult will sue Daniel Hopsicker into utter ruin
> > as per their own policy. But, I think Hopsicker has already thought of
> > that.
>
> If they do sue him, in this case, it is richly deserved.
What do you find so disturbinb about what he wrote?
> I'd just
> like to know who the anonymous former Scientologist was that he quoted
> so I can be sure to never give that person any further credibility or
> support.
People have a right to anonymous speech in this country Monica. That
point is presently being fought out in court in the Verizon/RIAA DMCA
case.
>
> Monica
Dave Bird
>
>>Just to be clear, this is wild speculation.
>
I think the insane response is "I KNOW this is not true.
I know this is NOT TRUE. HOW DARE YOU SAY IT. YAH YAH
YAH GIBBER GIBBER."
It is just a plausible, but unproven, speculation that this
is the same person. The most likely scenario is that this
**IS** the same person, who left the cult and got involved
with the terrorist guy. Stranger things have happened.
--
FUCK THE SKULL OF HUBBARD, AND BUGGER THE DWARF HE RODE IN ON!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
8====3 (O 0) GROETEN --- PRINTZ XEMU EXTRAWL no real OT has
|n| (COMMANDER, FIFTH INVADER FORCE) ever existed
.................................................................
STOP PRESS: EIGHTY SEVEN MILLION THIN DIMES FOR WOLLERSHEIM =====>
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63143-2002May9.html
Android Cat
news:NChDZ0Cz...@xemu.demon.co.uk...
> In article<bnhsnuspkqvt91k2j...@4ax.com>, Tilman Hausherr
> <til...@berlin.snafu.de> writes:
> >On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 13:11:10 -0400, "Charlotte L. Kates"
> ><cka...@eden.rutgers.edu> wrote in <3d7e298a$1...@news2.lightlink.com>:
> >
> >>Just to be clear, this is wild speculation.
> >
> >Yes. And a pretty disgusting one.
>
> I think the insane response is "I KNOW this is not true.
> I know this is NOT TRUE. HOW DARE YOU SAY IT. YAH YAH
> YAH GIBBER GIBBER."
>
> It is just a plausible, but unproven, speculation that this
> is the same person. The most likely scenario is that this
> **IS** the same person, who left the cult and got involved
> with the terrorist guy. Stranger things have happened.
Yeah? Well if it's true, show us the phone records!
Oops, sorry, I was having a Jolie flash-back. Never mind... :^)
Ron of that ilk.
Tom Klemesrud
Monica Pignotti wrote:
>
> Mad cow indeed. This is the stuff of which urban legends are made.
> Ever hear of Occam's Razor? I have a newsflash for Hopsicker. People
> do leave the Sea Org -- I'd say the majority I knew in the 70s have
> left. Many, many, children who grew up in the SO left when they came
> of age. IMHO, the author has sunk lower than anyone in the CofS by
> writing this sickening, sexist piece of trash.
Come on Monica, if Amanda was working with the CIA to monitor the
terrorists she will go down as being patriotic--a hero. Hopsicker
theorizes that the two Venice, FL flight schools may have been CIA
fronts to monitor the terrorists. We know the CIA interferred with
Greek Intelligence because during the greek government's raid on KEFE
they discovered a KEFE memo reporting the CIA interference, on behalf of
the cult.
However, if she was working for the cult to harbor, comfort, and assist
the lead Al Queda terrorist, then scientology would figure in being
something like the (former) Taliban. Can you see the implications?
Brent
Yahoo people search shows one Amanda Keller in Florida.
Chris Leithiser
WhoWhere shows two, one aged 32 in Orlando. Not counting multiple ones
using just initials, one of them in Clearwater.
Ed
Monica Pignotti wrote:
>
> Ed <met...@aol.com> wrote in message news:<3D7E9C8B...@aol.com>...
> >
> > I emailed Hopsicker and got a reply as follows:
> >
> > -----
> > she didn't escape.
> > they are the same girl.
>
> Well that's a not providing any evidence -- only assertions. I
> wouldn't trust anyone who answers a question in that way. Like we're
> just supposed to take his word for this?
>
He hasn't replied after 24 hours to my followup; I asked him
how he knew they were the same girl. This is a bad indicator.
> > > Someone brought your excellent coverage of Atta/Amanda Keller to the
> > > newsgroup alt.religion.scientology.
>
> I couldn't disagree more, Ed. It's a tasteless, trashy piece of
> nonsense.
>
> >>The question arises, is there
> > > anything at all to indicate that the two Amanda Kellers are the same
> > > person?. (Conceding they would be the same age and it is not a
> > > particularly common name.) Seems to me that if the Scientology Amanda
> > > escaped from the cult, she would have contacted her father for help
> > > and support and would not be living a sleazy life like Atta's girl.
>
> I disagree. People are often very confused when they leave. Its
> likely that her father was villified as an SP for years to her and
> that she wouldn't necessarily trust him to come running to him even if
> she did leave the SO.
>
> > I've replied asking him how he knows they are the same girl.
>
> Also, what evidence is there that she is currently a SO member. Well
> I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for actual evidence.
>
> Monica
I read her father's website, probably two hours and one of
the best such stories I've read. At the same time Hopsicker is on to
something with IMHO an entirely different girl. I would bet money on
two Amandas.
It's obvious from father Steve's account that he was a good and loving
father and that they had many, many good times even while she was in
Scn but just making the required visits. Then she disconnected and was
a loyal SO. If she stayed in the SO I'd expect she would stay
disconnected, but I'd also expect she would not be a bimbette in
sleazeland. If she left the SO I would expect she would contact her
father and not be part of this story. Only if she leaves the SO and
remains in good standing and chooses to stay in Florida (like if she
had a baby? But Atta's Amanda didn't have a baby) does she have a
chance to get into this lifestyle.
Steve's Amanda had a good upbringing and I'm pretty sure would not
choose to be in a life like Mohamed's Amanda; also she would not put
up with the abuse. Also she would have known French people in CW and
wouldn't be saying Mohamed Atta was French. It seems to me that the
other Amanda is from a poor and rough background (and she mentioned
coming from a place Steve's Amanda never would have been to).
Finally, the whole idea of Scientology conspiring to infiltrate SO
bimbettes into the flight school scene is ridiculous beyond belief.
Ed
Tom Klemesrud
Then you think--if it were her--it was a "covert Operation" purely to
forward scientology's own agenda as it pertains to Al Queda terrorists?
You of course don't doubt the cult runs "covert operations", and uses
there own staff members to do such?
Gandalf
I will say this:
It's important to recognize that the Amanda Keller issue is speculation. It
might be true and well worth pursuing, but let's not go off the deep end on
this issue.
Help to clarify the issue, but don't promote it until it's demonstrated as
reasonable fact.
Critics could look really stupid (and haplessly vicious and exploitative)
over this one. Much like the Co$ sending in volunteer ministers after the
9/11 tragedy.
My sincere advice: Drop it entirely on a public statement basis until you
know it as a well documented fact. Don't give the Co$ unnecessary leverage.
Mr. Scary
None of them has an address anywhere near Venice where Atta lived, or
near Clearwater.
MK
Phil Scott
Correct...but the speculation is based on quite a few links and the cults
history of dealing with Saudi gun runners and criminals...(Adnan Kashogghi for
instance)... so its not some shot in the dark.
When you get this kind of lead you post it, so others can start looking for more
clues and offering more links... on ARS there are so many eyeballs and so many
contributors, many behind the scenes. that it doesnt take too long for the truth
to surface....but what is available, leads, clues etc needs to be posted so the
case can develop.
> It
>might be true and well worth pursuing, but let's not go off the deep end on
>this issue.
>
>Help to clarify the issue, but don't promote it until it's demonstrated as
>reasonable fact.
Of course.... however we already have it from the author that he did the
research and it is the Amanda Keller, the cultie, still in the cult, that was
shacked up with Mohammed Atta.... thats what he says, with is very good
reputation as a published author on the line... and no..very few journalists are
at liberty to 'out' thier sources... but you see, Amanda can now be confirmed by
others and that will happen. So no one has to rely on the journalist and his
protected sources.
>
>Critics could look really stupid (and haplessly vicious and exploitative)
>over this one. Much like the Co$ sending in volunteer ministers after the
>9/11 tragedy.
Critics so far are just suggesting that the Amanda / Atta thing fits the cults
MO to a tee.... thats all...and suggesting that the situation gets looked into.
And for the record, I think its a very good possibility that this amanda a
cultie... she wouldnt talk, saying she would get in trouble if she did? Very
interesting, now like the witnesses in the Lisa McPherson case, has dissapeared.
Not yer usual girl friend behavior... but it fits the cult to a Tee...
especially with thier know connections to the Saudi criminal underworld.... and
previous history of turning some of its members into whores and sending them
after critics...as they did against Paullette Cooper ( a male cultie prostituted
himself) and it does seem that Sharon Thomas was similarly used...and Mike
McLaughry recounts the tactic in his recorded statement.
So I would not at all be suprised to see Atta fixed up with a cultie
girlfriend.
>
>My sincere advice: Drop it entirely on a public statement basis until you
>know it as a well documented fact. Don't give the Co$ unnecessary leverage.
Nah... we gonna be probin and probin, and asking questions, and brain storming,
and adding new data as it comes up...and all 500 of us brains will be working
together, and researching... and that has to be out in the open.... Truth you
see. Nothing wrong with it... and nothing wrong with noticing coincidences and
suggesting they may be the real deal.
If not.... that comes out in the wash also.
Phil Scott
>
>
Mike G
Mike G.
roger gonnet
"Zinj" <zinj...@yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
MPG.17e8af284...@news2.lightlink.com...
That would be right, though.
Any state presently owning and being ready to use the nuclear bombs
shoudl be tried before the international Court of Justice in Den Haag
for planning the destruction of human,ity (planning crimes against
humanity). And this includes France, as well as the other very mentally
ill countries like USA, China, Israel, India, Pakistan, UK, Australia
and their allies having bombs stationed on their soils.
r
Diane Richardson
wrote:
>On Wed, 11 Sep 2002 02:20:15 GMT, ref...@bway.net (Diane Richardson) wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 19:18:29 -0400, ptsc <ptsc AT nym DOT
>>cryptofortress DOT com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 13:11:10 -0400, "Charlotte L. Kates"
>>><cka...@eden.rutgers.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Just to be clear, this is wild speculation.
>>>
>>>This thread is sure sorting out the nuts from the sane people.
>>>What a load of demented lunacy. With nonsense like this, no
>>>wonder this newsgroup is viewed as a bunch of kooks and
>>>crackpots.
>>
>>What bothers me the most about this is how it *trivializes* last
>>year's tragedy.
>>
>>It was bad enough when Minton & Co. dragged Lisa McPherson's
>>body through the dirt for his own purposes. Now we see Phil Scott,
>>Tom Klemesrud and Jim Beebe, trampling all over the 3,000 people
>>who were killed last September for their own excitement.
>
>Wow...thats some pretty good spin...out of thin air you fabricate this stuff...
>while as time rolls on, its looking more and more like the cult is deep in bed
>with terrorists. You trying to smoke over those connections sweetheart?
Believe me when I tell you, Mr. Scott, that NO one is your sweetheart.
You're the one fabricating stuff out of thin air.
Show at least a modicum of respect to those who lost their lives one
year ago, and stop using their dead bodies as your own personal
playtoys.
You really are truly disgusting.
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Diane Richardson
>In <3jvtnugabv9fof860...@4ax.com>, Mike_...@rtc.org
>wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 11 Sep 2002 02:20:15 GMT, ref...@bway.net (Diane Richardson)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 19:18:29 -0400, ptsc <ptsc AT nym DOT
>>>cryptofortress DOT com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 13:11:10 -0400, "Charlotte L. Kates"
>>>><cka...@eden.rutgers.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Just to be clear, this is wild speculation.
>>>>
>>>>This thread is sure sorting out the nuts from the sane people.
>>>>What a load of demented lunacy. With nonsense like this, no
>>>>wonder this newsgroup is viewed as a bunch of kooks and
>>>>crackpots.
>>>
>>>What bothers me the most about this is how it *trivializes* last
>>>year's tragedy.
>>>
>>>It was bad enough when Minton & Co. dragged Lisa McPherson's
>>>body through the dirt for his own purposes. Now we see Phil Scott,
>>>Tom Klemesrud and Jim Beebe, trampling all over the 3,000 people
>>>who were killed last September for their own excitement.
>>>
>>>Truly disgusting.
>
>Not as disgusting as the nut cult training young women as camp whores
>inside the paramilitary organization and to gather blackmail material
>outside the organization -- once they're too old for the command
>echelon's tastes.
And you proof for this statement is ... your vivid imagination?
>At least she wasn't subjected to the attentions of the "poison dwarf."
>(One thread I read indicated he prefers to take it up the ass. He
>gratuitously announced this during a deposition.)
Looks like you're the one begging Miscavige for a little sugar.
Maybe he'll manage to make it into your wet dream tonight.
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Diane Richardson
<gon...@antisectes.net> wrote:
>And don't say, like scientologists won't miss to say, that I do not
>regret the 11 september deaths. I regret them.
Oh, I'm sure you regret there weren't more of them, Roger.
After all, you've made it explicitly clear you believe the only
good Americans are dead Americans.
>But what I regret most
>here is that they have been done only because US politics don't share
>any riches,
Seems to me I've asked you to explain yourself on this point before,
and your silence on the subject remains deafening.
The murderers who hijacked the airplanes a year ago were from
wealthy, well-educated families. How would you suggest "US
politics" share the wealth with people like the family of one of the
hijackers, who own the distributorship of high-end cars in Saudi
Arabia? Should we beg them to take more money so no more of
their sons decides he wants to kill people whose only crime was
showing up for work?
Please, Mr. Gonnet, I'd really like you to explain just how "US
politics" has kept wealthy, well-educated Saudi families from
"sharing riches." Mohammed Atta's father is a well-educated and
well-to-do Egyptian physician. How did "US politics" keep Mohammed
Atta from "sharing riches"?
>and keeps on to stealother countries riches, like in
>Argentine, Brazil, etc. And yes, US politics is not the only guilty one:
>other rich countries have done similar decisions and actions.
Yet your hatred of the U.S. is so intense you refuse to discuss
just how the Saud family soaks itself in wealth while denying even
the most basic of human rights to their subjects?
Hell, Mr. Gonnet, if you think those Saudi hijackers were just
the poor victims of vicious U.S. foreign policy, I suggest you pack
up your bags and immigrate to Saudi Arabia right this minute!
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
>
>
>roger
>
>
>
Gandalf
news:3d802a40...@news.giganews.com...
As much as I hate to admit it :-), I must agree with Diane on this issue.
Roger, ~please~ stop the US bashing on this forum. As much as I think you're
a good dude, it never ceases to piss me off when you put in various bashes
on the US.
The US is incredibly messed up (so I agree with you on points), but also an
excellent country (no country has ~ever~ devoted more resources to try to
help other countries develop without taking them over). If you want to
debate these issues, I'll be happy to do it in email or on another forum.
But, most importantly for ARS... Let's talk about Scientology. You know a
bunch about it and its limitations and consistently post excellent insights
about the limitations/techniques of Scientology. It would be great to focus
on those.
>
>
> Diane Richardson
> ref...@bway.net
> >
> >
> >roger
> >
> >
> >
>
Gandalf
Couldn't agree more with you on "probing" the truth and I apologize if I
seemed to suggest it shouldn't be pursued.
Were I a betting man, I have my reasons to think this is a *damn* good hunch
to follow up on.
Nonetheless, I just don't want it to go from a guess to statements that seem
to affirm "knowing" the truth until it's well confirmed--statements like
that make critics look bad.
"Phil Scott" <phils...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3d7e622c...@news.tdl.com...
roger gonnet
> On Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:20:30 +0200, "roger gonnet"
> <gon...@antisectes.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> >And don't say, like scientologists won't miss to say, that I do not
> >regret the 11 september deaths. I regret them.
>
> Oh, I'm sure you regret there weren't more of them, Roger.
> After all, you've made it explicitly clear you believe the only
> good Americans are dead Americans.
I certainly have never said anything that could be confused to your
insane rant. What I've continually said is that American Govt is crazy,
and that americans should stop loving, going to bed with, fabricating
and using weapons. That their justice has to change. That their frequent
egotism must be exposed for what it is. I love americans, like other
people, but I hate the way most of them think that outside america,
nothing is great. I hate stupid patriotism (in whatever country). I hate
Mondialism being used as weapon from rich countries against poor ones. I
hate to see one american = 100 afghans, or 80 indians. (not a lot less
for other rich countries)
You see what sort of hate I've? Hate of inconsciousness regarding
others. Hate for what is called "liberalism", which means in fact
"tyranny".
>
> >But what I regret most
> >here is that they have been done only because US politics don't share
> >any riches,
>
> Seems to me I've asked you to explain yourself on this point before,
> and your silence on the subject remains deafening.
really? You believe that yUSA is sharing anything? but weapons to kill?
>
> The murderers who hijacked the airplanes a year ago were from
> wealthy, well-educated families. How would you suggest "US
> politics" share the wealth with people like the family of one of the
> hijackers, who own the distributorship of high-end cars in Saudi
> Arabia? Should we beg them to take more money so no more of
> their sons decides he wants to kill people whose only crime was
> showing up for work?
>
> Please, Mr. Gonnet, I'd really like you to explain just how "US
> politics" has kept wealthy, well-educated Saudi families from
> "sharing riches." Mohammed Atta's father is a well-educated and
> well-to-do Egyptian physician. How did "US politics" keep Mohammed
> Atta from "sharing riches"?
Mohammed Atta would never have done it if his country and his religion
had been shared.
>
> >and keeps on to stealother countries riches, like in
> >Argentine, Brazil, etc. And yes, US politics is not the only guilty
one:
> >other rich countries have done similar decisions and actions.
>
> Yet your hatred of the U.S. is so intense you refuse to discuss
> just how the Saud family soaks itself in wealth while denying even
> the most basic of human rights to their subjects?
I don't see how you can say that from the best allies of american
politics into the middle orient. Don't you know USA companies, citizens,
and govt love those guys, and help them to get weapons, then go from
their country to Iraq so as to kill the Bagdad tyran? USA does jot like
tyrans, but its own.
roger
roger gonnet
"Gandalf" <BasicQu...@yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
4oWf9.278746$_91.3...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
> "Diane Richardson" <ref...@bway.net> wrote in message
> news:3d802a40...@news.giganews.com...
> > On Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:20:30 +0200, "roger gonnet"
> > <gon...@antisectes.net> wrote:
> >
>
> Roger, ~please~ stop the US bashing on this forum. As much as I think
you're
> a good dude, it never ceases to piss me off when you put in various
bashes
> on the US.
Yes. But you forget that if USA was not the dollar-adoring country it
is, such aberrations as your many ultra-rich and totalitarian cults
would never have existed to begin with. I have to defend this viewpoint
that rich countries, and more particularly USA, must share their
wealth - that's something you don't even do inside your country, which
is a shame.
Besides, when i'm bashing US politics and taste for money and power, I'm
attacked by various US citizens who bash "socialism" -- or France, or
Europe, or Communism, or Mao or whatever is not the way they want.
>
> The US is incredibly messed up (so I agree with you on points), but
also an
> excellent country (no country has ~ever~ devoted more resources to try
to
> help other countries develop without taking them over).
A total lie, may I say? You're brainwashed by a governement whose 4
trillions of dollars are due to private people who govern the whole
system. Those private people are not even honest in their accounts;
those people are also owning weapons plants etc. To kill those who
resist USA choces.
Take a look at Chile, for instance US had choosen the criminal Pinochet
for sordid reasons. 30000 dead.
USA defend Scientology: hundreds of deaths in tens of countries. USA
don't even try to go after it since 1977, despitre all the evidences
that scn keeps the same anti-USA stances as before!
roger
Gandalf
news:3d80...@news2.lightlink.com...
I could say a whole lot more about the issues you've raised, and I assure
you that I am not deluded--I know a great deal about what I'm saying and can
argue effectively about it (as I'm sure you can).
Nonetheless, I think the most productive approach for this forum is that we
agree the important point is the abuses of Scientology and working toward
the common goal of exposing those.
If you feel compelled to slip in the occasional US bash, what can I say?
Your posts are great and you're a consistently excellent on topic
contributor IMO, so you are an ally. I could say various things about France
or socialism. Nonetheless, I won't because I'd rather keep the focus on the
Co$.
Once an abusive Co$ is gone, we can debate politics with fangs unveiled ;-).
All the best,
Gandalf
James R. Ford
<gon...@antisectes.net> wrote:
>
>Yes. But you forget that if USA was not the dollar-adoring country it
>is, such aberrations as your many ultra-rich and totalitarian cults
>would never have existed to begin with. I have to defend this viewpoint
>that rich countries, and more particularly USA, must share their
>wealth - that's something you don't even do inside your country, which
>is a shame.
The wealth was shared when your country was given back its freedom
after WWII. There was also some rebuilding done, wasn't there?
Rather than sit on your asses and ask for handouts, why don't you all
just create your own? Begging is no way to get it.
>
>Besides, when i'm bashing US politics and taste for money and power, I'm
>attacked by various US citizens who bash "socialism" -- or France, or
>Europe, or Communism, or Mao or whatever is not the way they want.
You bash people about a taste for money and demand it be shared (given
to you). Don't you see how ridiculous that looks?
(I can't wait for a conservative to get elected in France.)
*******
The cult of $cientology in action:
http://www.newtimesla.com/issues/2000-12-21/feature.html/page1.html
For more information:
http://xenu.net
Monica Pignotti
> Monica Pignotti wrote:
> >
> > Tom Klemesrud <tom...@WCTAtel.net> wrote in message news:<3D7EE0A5...@WCTAtel.net>...
> >
> > > I don't know Diane. A staff member from the inner circle of
> > > scientology, on the payroll of scientology, offering confort and
> > > harboring the ringleader of the 9/11 terrorist attack, as the ringleader
> > > learned how to fly a plane into the World Trade Center, six months
> > > before he actually did it; is newsworthy, if it's true.
> >
> > A very big ~if~. Theres no support that it is true. Only trashy
>
> I don't know what's so trashy about it. I take it by your response that
> when you were in the cult you never engaged in a "covert operation" for
> the cult.
No, I never did. That was all under the GO (now OSA) which I never
worked for. I do, however, have a good knowledge of the history of
their covert operations and their interests have always been very
narrow, only going after people or organizations who were a direct
threat to Scientology (e.g., Paulette Cooper, CAN, the IRS,
"squirrels" like David Mayo) and there has never been any
documentation that they have gotten involved in anything like
international terrorism. That is simply not their style.
> Hopsicker said the girl is still in, and the Amanda Keller in question
> is the cult member. He is a respected writer, and he had done a lot of
> research on this story. There is nothing to support that it is false.
That's argument from authority. He needs to provide actual evidence
of his assertions, no matter what his "reputation" is. This is wild
speculation that he doesn't give evidence for, when there are simpler,
more rational explanations available (i.e., this is the wrong Amanda
Keller or Amanda Keller left the SO). He needs to refute the simpler
explanations such as these, before spinning some complicated
conspiracy theory and I don't see where he has done so in this
article.
> > speculation.
> >
> > > If it's not, I'm sure the cult will sue Daniel Hopsicker into utter ruin
> > > as per their own policy. But, I think Hopsicker has already thought of
> > > that.
> >
> > If they do sue him, in this case, it is richly deserved.
>
> What do you find so disturbinb about what he wrote?
Because, in addition to the disgusting use of this terrible tragedy
for sensationalism, this is just the sort of reporting that makes
critics look like off the wall conspiracy kooks. Scientology can now
take this piece, show it to the world and say something on the order
of "Look what fruitcakes these critics are!" Journalists like
Hopsticker make the job of credible critics with valid, documented
complaints, much more difficult because the CofS can now spin this to
lump us all into one category. This is the sort of trash that makes
people like Judge Schaeffer see us as fanatics, although it looks like
now she's getting an education to the contrary.
> > I'd just
> > like to know who the anonymous former Scientologist was that he quoted
> > so I can be sure to never give that person any further credibility or
> > support.
>
> People have a right to anonymous speech in this country Monica. That
> point is presently being fought out in court in the Verizon/RIAA DMCA
> case.
Correct, and we also have the right to judge the quality of the
information accordingly. What former Scientologists "going public"
anomyously should know, by the way, is that most likely the
Scientologists will find out who they are anyway if they set their
minds to it, so if a person is going to make a public statement,
they're far better off using their name. Scientology will probably be
grateful to anyone connected with this article, though, because it
gives them valid reason to use the phrase "merchants of chaos" and to
point the finger at how nutty "critics" are.
Monica
Diane Richardson
<gon...@antisectes.net> wrote:
>
>"Gandalf" <BasicQu...@yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
>4oWf9.278746$_91.3...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
>> "Diane Richardson" <ref...@bway.net> wrote in message
>> news:3d802a40...@news.giganews.com...
>> > On Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:20:30 +0200, "roger gonnet"
>> > <gon...@antisectes.net> wrote:
>> >
>>
>> Roger, ~please~ stop the US bashing on this forum. As much as I think
>you're
>> a good dude, it never ceases to piss me off when you put in various
>bashes
>> on the US.
>
>Yes. But you forget that if USA was not the dollar-adoring country it
>is, such aberrations as your many ultra-rich and totalitarian cults
>would never have existed to begin with.
It seems to me France is doing a pretty good job of pumping out
ultra-rich and totalitarian cults without any help from the US or
anyone else!
>I have to defend this viewpoint
>that rich countries, and more particularly USA, must share their
>wealth - that's something you don't even do inside your country, which
>is a shame.
A country that does nothing to increase the ability of its citizens to
work for a living, preferring instead to keep those citizens begging
for more handouts from the government dole, is a shame, too.
>Besides, when i'm bashing US politics and taste for money and power, I'm
>attacked by various US citizens who bash "socialism" -- or France, or
>Europe, or Communism, or Mao or whatever is not the way they want.
If you think you should be allowed to bash the U.S. while forbidding
others to respond in kind, you're sorely mistaken about the nature
of Usenet. Perhaps you can convince your government to set up
a forum when no one is allowed to disagree with you.
>> The US is incredibly messed up (so I agree with you on points), but
>also an
>> excellent country (no country has ~ever~ devoted more resources to try
>to
>> help other countries develop without taking them over).
>
>
>A total lie, may I say?
You can say it, but that doesn't make it true.
>You're brainwashed by a governement whose 4
>trillions of dollars are due to private people who govern the whole
>system. Those private people are not even honest in their accounts;
>those people are also owning weapons plants etc. To kill those who
>resist USA choces.
Just like the French government is made up of private people. <shrug>
In fact, I have a difficult time imagining a person who is NOT a
"private people."
And I think there are probably as many dishonest French businessmen
as there are dishonest American businessmen. Do you have any evidence
to the contrary?
>Take a look at Chile, for instance US had choosen the criminal Pinochet
>for sordid reasons. 30000 dead.
Hmmmm ... let's see ... take a look at Vietnam, for instance. Seems
to me those brave French soliders played some sort of role in killing
off a lot of Vietnamese ... no?
How about Algeria? Hmmmm .... seems to me the French government
played a very, very large role in killing a whole hell of a lot of
Algerians ... no?
Or are you busy compiling a new, revised version of French history,
Mr. Gonnet?
>USA defend Scientology: hundreds of deaths in tens of countries. USA
>don't even try to go after it since 1977, despitre all the evidences
>that scn keeps the same anti-USA stances as before!
You are an idiot.
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Diane Richardson
<gon...@antisectes.net> wrote:
>
>"Diane Richardson" <ref...@bway.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
>3d802a40...@news.giganews.com...
>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:20:30 +0200, "roger gonnet"
>> <gon...@antisectes.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >And don't say, like scientologists won't miss to say, that I do not
>> >regret the 11 september deaths. I regret them.
>>
>> Oh, I'm sure you regret there weren't more of them, Roger.
>> After all, you've made it explicitly clear you believe the only
>> good Americans are dead Americans.
>
>I certainly have never said anything that could be confused to your
>insane rant.
You've never written *anything* that might be confused with what I've
written, Mr. Gonnet. Nevertheless, you have consistently and
relentlessly blamed citizens of the United States for every perceived
evil you can imagine.
I have no doubt you wish the hijackers had managed to kill every
American alive, Mr. Gonnet. Maybe next time, they'll make your
dream come true.
>What I've continually said is that American Govt is crazy,
That's your opinion, which is baseless and objectionable.
>and that americans should stop loving, going to bed with, fabricating
>and using weapons.
But you have never condemned al Qaeda's use of commercial airliners
as weapons. Do you think hijacking an airplane and using it to kill
thousands of innocent people is an admirable act, Mr. Gonnet?
>That their justice has to change.
I happen to think it's YOUR justice that has to change. The idea that
you can take delight in the deaths of thousands of innocent people is
not justice, Mr. Gonnet. It's your blind, unceasing hatred of
Americans that drives you to say what you say.
>That their frequent
>egotism must be exposed for what it is. I love americans, like other
>people, but I hate the way most of them think that outside america,
>nothing is great.
You have no idea what "most Americans" think, Mr. Gonnet. Your
belief that you do know shows that YOUR egotism is what's driving you.
You believe you know the inner thoughts of millions of people and you
demand that others accept your imaginary reality. Now THAT is
egotism!
> I hate stupid patriotism (in whatever country). I hate
>Mondialism being used as weapon from rich countries against poor ones. I
>hate to see one american = 100 afghans, or 80 indians. (not a lot less
>for other rich countries)
And most of all you hate Americans and want to see them all killed.
You don't explain how the death of American citizens will solve the
problems of the world. You don't seem to understand how silly your
belief that Americans are the cause of all the world's evils actually
is.
>You see what sort of hate I've? Hate of inconsciousness regarding
>others. Hate for what is called "liberalism", which means in fact
>"tyranny".
That's not what you hate, Mr. Gonnet. You hate Americans. Your
hatred is plain and you've expressed it thousands of times on this
newsgroup.
>> >But what I regret most
>> >here is that they have been done only because US politics don't share
>> >any riches,
>>
>> Seems to me I've asked you to explain yourself on this point before,
>> and your silence on the subject remains deafening.
>
>really? You believe that yUSA is sharing anything? but weapons to kill?
Yes.
>> The murderers who hijacked the airplanes a year ago were from
>> wealthy, well-educated families. How would you suggest "US
>> politics" share the wealth with people like the family of one of the
>> hijackers, who own the distributorship of high-end cars in Saudi
>> Arabia? Should we beg them to take more money so no more of
>> their sons decides he wants to kill people whose only crime was
>> showing up for work?
>>
>> Please, Mr. Gonnet, I'd really like you to explain just how "US
>> politics" has kept wealthy, well-educated Saudi families from
>> "sharing riches." Mohammed Atta's father is a well-educated and
>> well-to-do Egyptian physician. How did "US politics" keep Mohammed
>> Atta from "sharing riches"?
>
>Mohammed Atta would never have done it if his country and his religion
>had been shared.
That doesn't make any more sense in French than it does in English,
Mr. Gonnet. Who do you want Mohammed Atta to share his country
and his religion with?
Mohammed Atta came from Egypt. Egypt has received massive amounts
of aid from the United States for decades. I guess that's something
you would prefer to ignore, but if you think the United States has not
provided enormous heaps of humanitarian aid to Egypt, you are ignoring
reality and living in a dream world.
As for "sharing his religion," I'm willing to bet you any amount of
Euros that there are more Muslims living around me than live around
you. I'm also willing to bet you there are more mosques in my
neighborhood than there are in yours. I'm also willing to bet there
are more synagogues in my neighborhood than there are in yours.
What you don't want to accept, Mr. Gonnet, is that the population of
my neighborhood -- and my city -- is FAR more diverse AND far more
tolerant than anything that occurs where you live.
>> >and keeps on to stealother countries riches, like in
>> >Argentine, Brazil, etc. And yes, US politics is not the only guilty
>one:
>> >other rich countries have done similar decisions and actions.
>>
>> Yet your hatred of the U.S. is so intense you refuse to discuss
>> just how the Saud family soaks itself in wealth while denying even
>> the most basic of human rights to their subjects?
>I don't see how you can say that from the best allies of american
>politics into the middle orient.
It's not just me saying it, Mr. Gonnet. Read some American papers and
find out just what is being said about Saudi Arabia and the Saud
family. Oh ... that's right ... if you did that you might learn the
truth and no longer be able to live in your dream world where all
Americans are evil and should be put to death.
>Don't you know USA companies, citizens,
>and govt love those guys,
Some American companies love those guys. So do some British
companies, and -- horror of horrors -- so do some French guys.
Same goes for governments. Seems to me the French government
has made a pretty penny selling jet fighters to the Saudi government.
Or is that something else you'd prefer to ignore?
>and help them to get weapons, then go from
>their country to Iraq so as to kill the Bagdad tyran? USA does jot like
>tyrans, but its own.
Your hatred of Americans has made you delusional, Mr. Gonnet. I
realize you are uncomfortable when your accusations are challenged.
If you want to continue believing in a delusion that the Saudi
hijackers were poor, uneducated folk suffering under the boot of
American imperialism, I guess there's nothing that I or anyone else
can say to disabuse you of your fantasy.
But it IS a fantasy, Mr. Gonnet. A vicious, hate-filled fantasy in
which you blame Americans for every evil that exists in the world.
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Tom Klemesrud
Mike G wrote:
>
> This thread needs to die. Awful timing and topic.
The most "classically terroristic cult the world has ever known" (-May
6, 1991 TIME Magazine) needs to go the way of their cousin "religion",
the Taliban.
Phil Scott
Well on the other hand, you see, Roger is right in line with many of our own
well respected US senators and even a past director of the CIA Philip Aggie(sp)
Thier books and comments, in support to a large extent of Rogers comments, and
relevant to the Cult of Scientology's complicity of such corruption is at
www.FromTheWilderness.com
see the book review section, and the economics sections. These are relevant to
Scientology because of the hard core CIA connections to the cult and the
espionage they conduct worldwide.
These issues like any medical issue must be looked at in the full context, not
isolated one system from another when in vivo they are not isolated but
co-functional... part of the system.
It is a *corrupt US govt that does not prosecute the cult now for over 20
years...zip. The only reason Slatkin finally got raided (with 2 weeks warning)
was because of all the hundreds of millions in civil suits exposing the fraud...
the cult compromised feds had to at least look like they were acting or get
nailed for not enforcing the law and siding with the cult overtly.
Roger is pointing out the systemic aspects.... but he was RONG about US citizens
having the right to be armed. Its our second ammendment afforded protection
against corruption in govt, as stated in the constitution in many different
references. If we give up that right, the corruption goes rampant...the CIA
will not even bother selling the cocaine to middlemen, it will use tax payer
money to pay its own pushers....
Phil Scott
>
>>
>>
>> Diane Richardson
>> ref...@bway.net
>> >
>> >
>> >roger
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
Ed
Of course they do. They also have always been extremely well
disciplined and careful in their ops. If the suppositions about Atta's
Amanda being SO were true it would differ drastically from their past
methods.
First, Monica was correct that SO members have always lived together
in staff berthing. This is a successful action in any cult because it
minimizes the amount of contact with the outside world's subversive
influences. The people who run the SO know very well that members
given any time free are a threat to blow. The idea that SO Amanda
would be allowed to live in an apartment at least an hour away from CW
and have a wog job is utterly ridiculous.
Second, if she was living an hour from CW in an apartment and was
actually on a mission or an "op" her bosses would have to be prepared
to deal with the consequences of the very real possibility that she
might blow the SO or get caught in a compromising situation that
harmed Scn's PR. What possible benefit could Scn get from this mission
or "op" that would outweigh the bad PR effect of the story that SO
girls are being used as bimbos for terrorists or whatever?
But the whole idea is ridiculous. As with so much of conspiracy theory
(some of which may be true) you can always create imaginary
connections and theories that have no support in fact whatsoever.
Ed
Phil Scott
Rong again Edddie old boy...... the cult has screwed up a hundred or more ops
with complete idiocy, and brazen risks.... The ops against Arnaldo and moi
here for instance, and against Dennis Erlich, and the Judge in canada.... its a
long list Ed. Get a cloo man.
The Amanda Keller deal with Mohamed Atta if indeed Amanda is the cultie Amanda
and id bet she is given the cults other attachments to criminal Saudi's and
terrorists (Adnan Kashogghi sells weapons to terrorists you know). The
author of the book to be released says she is and is not releasing his sources.
But he has to prove that to his publisher if he is to be published and thier
attorneys as well. And he is a well respected author.
>
>First, Monica was correct that SO members have always lived together
>in staff berthing.
Not at all correct... the covert cultie ops, Meisner, all those listed in the
1977 raids, lived away from the cult premise alone in situations compatible with
thier ops.......... duh.
>This is a successful action in any cult because it
>minimizes the amount of contact with the outside world's subversive
>influences. The people who run the SO know very well that members
>given any time free are a threat to blow.
Regular staff...but not of course the OSA operatives who are well out into the
world runing the scams and espionage. Ed....get a forking clue man...OK?
>The idea that SO Amanda
>would be allowed to live in an apartment at least an hour away from >CW and have a wog job is utterly ridiculous.
bbzzzzzzzzzzzzztttttt rong again Ed. Happens all the time its a matter of
record. For example, OSA's attorneys, staff attorneys, Helena Kobrin and her
husband the US intelligence agent Mikie, do not live in cult hovels.
You dint know that son?
>
>Second, if she was living an hour from CW in an apartment and was
>actually on a mission or an "op" her bosses would have to be prepared
>to deal with the consequences of the very real possibility that she
>might blow the SO or get caught in a compromising situation that
>harmed Scn's PR.
The cult screws up like that regularly pal....its thier MO...its their most
common characteristic.... the foot bullet(tm).... you hadn't notice? :)
>What possible benefit could Scn get from this mission
>or "op" that would outweigh the bad PR effect of the story that SO
>girls are being used as bimbos for terrorists or whatever?
They try not to get caught Ed...thats why the whore house on the WISE controlled
property in Story County is being run by a cultie pal not an official WISE
member.
The cult has a *long history or running whores in on critics, govt and
corporate executives and now most probably terrorists, in order gain favor,
cooperation, or failing that 'leverage'. You forgot about Ms Bloodybutt
already...and the dozens of other cases reported.
Ed...son.... you are starting to make me wonder about you.
>
>But the whole idea is ridiculous.
Not hardly, your denial of the obvious is rediculous though.
>s with so much of conspiracy theory
>(some of which may be true) you can always create imaginary
>connections and theories that have no support in fact whatsoever.
Is Adnan Kashogghi black market weapons dealer to terrorists, and tight
associate of David Misscarriage and Reedie boy the Felon Slatkin, imaginary?
Come on now Ed...no evasions here...answer the question.
Phil Scott
>
>Ed
Phil Scott
Snip
Err Ms Richardson.... The fact is that the cult *is in bed with the man who
supplies weapons to terrorists. a convicted criminal, Adnan Kashogghi the Saudi
national. Adnan also lives just doors away from Reedie boy the felon Slatkin.
and is tightly involved with David Misscarriage and Michael Bayback on slime
ball deals world wide. Criminals you see.
Scum. And terrorist connected too.
It is very likely that Scientology's very own Sea Org member, Amanda Keller,
was shacked up with Mohamed Atta, months before he and his fellow Saudi fanatics
murdered thousands at the WTC. We have a well respected journalist who IS
protecting his sources saying that appears to be the case, and that she is STILL
in the sea org, or at least the cult...and is *that Amanda.
We will see what gets published, because that has to pass the publishers and
their legal depts screens for accuracy.
meantime im sure the cult will be working on trying to silence the publisher as
well.... that might be difficult if the manuscript is sold in France or Germany.
However, the eyes of ARS are on this issue now, and nothing in the end gets by
that screen...this is not to mention the hundreds of PI's in the Slatkin case,
who will be interested in this broader picture as it defines the scope of cult
criminality and complicity with the international criminal and terrorist
underworld.
But thanks for coming out of the closet Diana.... I just knew the Lisa case, and
now the Mohamed Atta link, would bring out your best efforts.
Phil Scott
(415) 927 7573
Keith
I will not participate in this slanderous and libelous thread that involves a
innocent teenage girl, but it is worth noting that ARS conspiracy theorists
have never meet a conspiracy theory they don't like, as long as some nut ball
says Scientology is involved it is accepted as gospel truth by the lunatic
fringe.
"Have you no shame?", asked Joseph Welch.
http://www.dimensional.com/~randl/mccart.htm
--
Best Regards,
Keith - Reply-to address is valid - http://n6jpa.home.attbi.com/
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
I've walked these streets in the mad house asylum they can be where a wild
eyed misfit prophet on a traffic island stopped and he raved of saving me,
have I been blind, have I been lost, inside my self and my own mind
hypnotized mesmerized by what my eyes have seen? ~N. Merchant, "Carnival"
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
ka...@wwwaif.net
<snip philphroth>
>Is Adnan Kashogghi black market weapons dealer to terrorists, and tight
>associate of David Misscarriage and Reedie boy the Felon Slatkin, imaginary?
Yes. It is. In the real world, outside of your increasingly
bizarre delusions, it is completely and totally imaginary.
The association between Kashoggi and Slatkin is this: they
have both owned property in the Hope Ranch community near
Santa Barbara. That's it. That's all. Now, either round up
the rest of the Hope Ranch neighbourhood into your
conspiracy theory, or let it go.
K
Phil Scott
>This thread needs to die. Awful timing and topic.
Rong again pal, the cult of scientology has been a 'classic terrorist' operation
for years according to many including Time Magazine.... and is in bed big time
with the Adnan Kashogghi, poison gas salesman to terrorists world wide... thats
a well established fact.
You blind or something, or just shilling for the cult.
now we have some pretty interesting information concerning most likely Sea Org
staffer Amanda Keller and Mohammed Atta!... that is unless Amanda Kellers who
have terrorist buddies are real common.
They ain't son.
Phil Scott
>
>Mike G.
>
Phil Scott
>In article <3d8142fc...@news.tdl.com>, phils...@hotmail.com (Phil Scott) wrote:
><snip philphroth>
>
>>Is Adnan Kashogghi black market weapons dealer to terrorists, and tight
>>associate of David Misscarriage and Reedie boy the Felon Slatkin, imaginary?
>
>Yes. It is. In the real world, outside of your increasingly
>bizarre delusions, it is completely and totally imaginary.
>
>The association between Kashoggi and Slatkin is this: they
>have both owned property in the Hope Ranch community near
>Santa Barbara. That's it.
Incorrect...Kashogghi is in SEC filings with a rather exclusive list of other
cult or scientology related scum. A web site with about 3,000 pages of those
filings and a site map linking them is being prepared.
Meantime it is well recorded and witnessed that Kashogghi as spend a lot of time
at Flag and is friends with David Miscavige, and the boys. That is also
reflected in the SEC filings unless you think sworn enemies do such tight and
interactive business with each other.
>That's all. Now, either round up
>the rest of the Hope Ranch neighbourhood into your
>conspiracy theory, or let it go.
This is like putting a puzzle to gether, Kady. Say the puzzle has 100 pieces
and you have 50 of them all linked together... that forms a pretty good picture
of whats going on... you may not have all the details, or all the pieces fit,
but the picture is well formed by then.
Thats the case with the cult / terrorist connections... now please admit you
were wrong in leaving out Adnans frequent visits at least to the cults Flag land
base.
Phil Scott
>
>K
Tom Klemesrud
Kady, Kashoggi's association with scn is a real as it gets. His wife is
one. They give big money.
Study up before you call something "completely and totally imaginary."
ka...@wwwaif.net
One of his wives, who may in fact, be an ex-wife, is listed
as taking a few courses. I study, Tom. Don't ever make the
mistake that I disagree with crack-inspired conspiracy
theories out of ignorance.
Plus, I was discussing the connection between Kashoggi and
Slatkin, not Kashoggi and Scientology. Learn to read before
you suggest that other people don't know whereof they speak.
K
ka...@wwwaif.net
>On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 20:49:40 GMT, ka...@wwwaif.net (ka...@wwwaif.net) wrote:
>
>>In article <3d8142fc...@news.tdl.com>, phils...@hotmail.com (Phil
> Scott) wrote:
>><snip philphroth>
>>
>>>Is Adnan Kashogghi black market weapons dealer to terrorists, and tight
>>>associate of David Misscarriage and Reedie boy the Felon Slatkin, imaginary?
>>
>>Yes. It is. In the real world, outside of your increasingly
>>bizarre delusions, it is completely and totally imaginary.
>>
>>The association between Kashoggi and Slatkin is this: they
>>have both owned property in the Hope Ranch community near
>>Santa Barbara. That's it.
>
>Incorrect...Kashogghi is in SEC filings with a rather exclusive list of other
>cult or scientology related scum. A web site with about 3,000 pages of those
>filings and a site map linking them is being prepared.
>
>Meantime it is well recorded and witnessed that Kashogghi as spend a lot of
> time
>at Flag and is friends with David Miscavige, and the boys. That is also
>reflected in the SEC filings unless you think sworn enemies do such tight and
>interactive business with each other.
Okay, where the hell are my hand puppets?
A connection between Kashoggi and "exclusive cult or
scientology-related scum", which in the Phil Phantasy World,
includes, among others, Oracle and George Soros, is not a
connection between Kashoggi and Reed Slatkin. It hasn't been
recorded that Kashoggi "spends a lot of time" at Flag,
although he *has* been reported to have been spotted there,
and one of his wives is known to have taken some courses.
The trouble with your theories is that you assume that any
proximity that can otherwise be explained by coincidence is,
in fact, the smoking gun that validates your entire crazy
world view. You need more than just a tenuous link, or
people are going to think you're a crackpot.
>
>
>>That's all. Now, either round up
>>the rest of the Hope Ranch neighbourhood into your
>>conspiracy theory, or let it go.
>
>This is like putting a puzzle to gether, Kady. Say the puzzle has 100 pieces
>and you have 50 of them all linked together... that forms a pretty good picture
>of whats going on... you may not have all the details, or all the pieces fit,
>but the picture is well formed by then.
No, it doesn't. I'm familiar with 'connecting the dots,'
Phil. I do a lot of research. I'm also familiar with the
concept of a "dead end" or a "coincidence". To stick with
your puzzle analogy, I don't try to jam together pieces that
really don't seem to fit in order to make my puzzle look
like the picture that is not on the front of the box, but in
my head.
>Thats the case with the cult / terrorist connections... now please admit you
>were wrong in leaving out Adnans frequent visits at least to the cults Flag
> land
>base.
No. I know he *has* been reported to visit Flag. I know one
of his wife takes courses. I have no reason to believe that
he is a frequent visitor. Do you have that from someone
other than one of the voices in your head?
And I notice you also ignored the fact that the only
relationship between Slatkin and Kashoggi is that both men
have lived in Hope Ranch. Along with dozens of other
well-heeled folk. Where do they fit into your conspiracy
theory, or are you just ignoring them because otherwise,
it's nothing but a coincidence of geography?
K
Diane Richardson
wrote:
>
>Snip
>
>Err Ms Richardson.... The fact is that the cult *is in bed with the man who
>supplies weapons to terrorists. a convicted criminal, Adnan Kashogghi the Saudi
>national.
You have repeatedly made that claim, Mr. Scott, but you have provided
absolutely NO evidence to support your claim.
Put up or shut up, Mr. Scott, or it's back to the loonie bin with you.
>Adnan also lives just doors away from Reedie boy the felon Slatkin.
>and is tightly involved with David Misscarriage and Michael Bayback on slime
>ball deals world wide. Criminals you see.
No, I see nothing of the sort. I see you making a lot of accusations
that you have NEVER supported with anything even approaching facts.
Someone needs to teach you that just because you *want* something to
be true doesn't necessarily *make* it true. You've got to prove it,
and you haven't. In fact, you've failed to support any of your
outlandish claims.
>Scum. And terrorist connected too.
>
>
> It is very likely that Scientology's very own Sea Org member, Amanda Keller,
>was shacked up with Mohamed Atta, months before he and his fellow Saudi fanatics
>murdered thousands at the WTC.
It may be very likely to you, but that doesn't mean anyone else in the
world believes your delusions, Mr. Scott. You're going to have to
back up your bizarre claims with something you're quite unfamiliar
with: it's called PROOF.
>We have a well respected journalist who IS
>protecting his sources saying that appears to be the case,
He is NOT a "well-respected journalist," Mr. Scott. He's yet another
internet kook, which is the type of person you're no doubt initimately
familiar with.
>and that she is STILL
>in the sea org, or at least the cult...and is *that Amanda.
If you want to bet your life on the half-baked claims of another
internet kook, that's your problem, Mr. Scott. Just don't make the
mistake of demanding other people swallow the same shit you do, all
the while claiming you're consuming the most delectable dish.
>We will see what gets published, because that has to pass the publishers and
>their legal depts screens for accuracy.
Yeah, sure. I see you have no better understanding of the publishing
process than you have of Internet Kookery.
>meantime im sure the cult will be working on trying to silence the publisher as
>well.... that might be difficult if the manuscript is sold in France or Germany.
I think the biggest hurdle will be in Internet Kook finding a
publisher whacked out enough to believe his idiocy. I'm sure there
are still enough nutcases like Linda Thompson around that he should
eventually be able to find someone to publish.
But I'm not going to hold my breath until that happens.
>However, the eyes of ARS are on this issue now, and nothing in the end gets by
>that screen...this is not to mention the hundreds of PI's in the Slatkin case,
>who will be interested in this broader picture as it defines the scope of cult
>criminality and complicity with the international criminal and terrorist
>underworld.
Yeah ... sure.
>But thanks for coming out of the closet Diana.... I just knew the Lisa case, and
>now the Mohamed Atta link, would bring out your best efforts.
I wasn't in any closet, Mr. Scott, but it's obvious you inhabit
Fantasyland.
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Phil Scott
SEC filings prove differently...there are close hard wired, and long term
connections between these people including Michael Bayback and Duggan both
Reedie boys mentors in corporate crime for the last 20 years..and
Kashogghi....tere are several tons of accumulated documents on this issue, many
being scanned into a web page project...
I and others have some copies of key documents... we will be releasing them as
appropriate not sooner.
Meantime the links that are already posted to the web, countless times, Adnans
association with drugs, Soros, and heavy financial culties are well
established...unless of course you are blind to that.
>. It hasn't been
>recorded that Kashoggi "spends a lot of time" at Flag,
>although he *has* been reported to have been spotted there,
>and one of his wives is known to have taken some courses.
Correct. He is also listed in very exclusive lists of investors with Authors
Family Trust B, and about 15 other cult / and or WISE members.
>
>The trouble with your theories is that you assume that any
>proximity that can otherwise be explained by coincidence is,
>in fact, the smoking gun that validates your entire crazy
>world view.
Not correct. I am putting a puzzle together, I may have 50 out of a hundred
pieces fit.... that picture while not complete is none the less quite telling...
The other pieces of the puzzle can be easily separated from random flack by
thier, coloring, die cut quality, size, some of the edges, and general
content...
You can see how that works with a puzzle Im sure. A puzzle with pieces all
about the same size will not be easily confused if you throw in square or much
larger sized pieces from another puzzle.
The general character of the peices is relevant right from the start.... then as
you get the puzzle half or 70% completed, well the picture itself becomes pretty
obvious... we are in that stage with the cult and its connections with the
CIA and terrorists currently. We have enough peices to know whats going on....
fitting each one is inevitable.
>You need more than just a tenuous link, or
>people are going to think you're a crackpot.
Ive been spotting this trend on each new bomb shell 6 months to a year in
advance since 1993 now.... over 30,000 posts of this nature...I have not missed
a single time yet. Not once. Not on the satanic links, or the CIA US govt
espionage links, or on the financial mess. or on the cults infiltration of
Google from the inside and trashing of cult critical content... etc.
When I say there is a big financial mess coming related to cultie crimes...it
happens within a year. When I say Oracle will loose its ass in the EU unless
it disavows Quigley etc.... it looses it ass in the EU within 6 months.
Why is that?
Its that I can see the puzzle picture forming. Its like you seeing 7 year old
child running out to play on a busy freeway... you don't have to be too bright
to predict the consequences.... then if you see his parents standing by
watching, well you do not have to be a rocket scientist to predict what other
problems that family might have .... and whats going on with the other kids.
You may be missing 50 million details...but the big picture is unmistakable....
then you investigate and you get the details... thats the stage this cult
investigation is currently at... we have a few million details and the forming
big picture is at very high resolution with only a few blank areas.
Same with this mess. You know where to look for the crimes... as you get close
you can see the same batch of scum scurrying for the dark and trying to smoke up
the issue.
>>>That's all. Now, either round up
>>>the rest of the Hope Ranch neighbourhood into your
>>>conspiracy theory, or let it go.
No.... if the rest of the Hope Ranch residents are not listed on the same SEC
filings as Reedie boy and his mentors Bayback, Duggan, and Friedland etc.. and
Authors Family Trust B, well then they are probably not connected.... you see?
If any are though......they are connected. I think you can see that,... and I
totally *loved the tape of your interview posted few years ago. You were quite
an inquisitive, expressive cutie on that one. I wish you well as this expose
unfolds.
>>
>>This is like putting a puzzle to gether, Kady. Say the puzzle has 100 pieces
>>and you have 50 of them all linked together... that forms a pretty good picture
>>of whats going on... you may not have all the details, or all the pieces fit,
>>but the picture is well formed by then.
>
>No, it doesn't. I'm familiar with 'connecting the dots,'
There are dots...thats good...then there is also the 'puzzle' those pieces
interlock you see... dots lead to puzzle pieces...then its the puzzle that locks
the picture in.
>Phil. I do a lot of research. I'm also familiar with the
>concept of a "dead end" or a "coincidence". To stick with
>your puzzle analogy, I don't try to jam together pieces that
>really don't seem to fit in order to make my puzzle look
>like the picture that is not on the front of the box, but in
>my head.
Thats good. Its just that as you put a puzzle together you may have peices you
wont publicly disclose in the intermittent stages....it ruins the investigation
if you do so....you see the full picture or the forming picture long before
those you present your final product to.
In my case, I post clues about the picture _I_ see... that helps others to look
in the same direction and see if they see anything from thier vantage point that
is invisible to me.... thats the magic of communication on these issues.
You or others are more than welcome to post opposing or supporting views or
evidence. It all adds up. Oposing evidence helps to weed out false leads and
false pieces...but in the end, no puzzle works unless all the peices fit
perfectly.... jamming pieces in as you say doesnt work....one jammed piece makes
the rest of the puzzle impossible.
We have a pretty clear picture forming. You dont do that with jammed in
pieces, although the cult tries that...its been a loosing strategy for them.
>
>>Thats the case with the cult / terrorist connections... now please admit you
>>were wrong in leaving out Adnans frequent visits at least to the cults Flag
>> land
>>base.
>
>No. I know he *has* been reported to visit Flag.
Excellent.
> I know one
>of his wife takes courses. I have no reason to believe that
>he is a frequent visitor. Do you have that from someone
>other than one of the voices in your head?
Yes, the fact of his numerous visits to flag and funding huge banquents for
staff are well known and reported on by eye witnesses on this NG for the last 10
years.
And no, I don't log ARS.... its well known and well published information
though. Perhaps your news feed has missed some of those or whatever.
>
>And I notice you also ignored the fact that the only
>relationship between Slatkin and Kashoggi is that both men
>have lived in Hope Ranch. Along with dozens of other
>well-heeled folk.
Incorrect, its not the only connectiong, its just that in *context with the
other connections....well the pieces begin to fit in here and there...they are
both linked extensively to many other cultie and cultie pal dominated scams
world wide...and those are in the SEC filings for these corporations. In
context with them living in close proximity one gets an even wider clue.
> Where do they fit into your conspiracy
>theory,
Thats a poor way to charactarize the accumulating evidence against the cult and
its wide range of criminal and terrorist related links. But yes you are
correct... one link does not a picture make.
It takes many links, Kady, then they make a picture...in this case a fairly well
formed half a puzzle. We see Adnan and Davie, and a big batch of felons are in
it... and we see much of the background scenery that links them.
Sort of like a sail boat puzzle. you see half a square mile of ocean, the sky,
half a sail boat, some arms and legs of the crew, and 5 faces...well guess
what...it aint no landscape. The scene is quite obvious well before half of
the pieces are fit. All that happens is that as the rest of the pieces fit
in, you get the complete picture....
A civil jury you know can convict when the picture becomes apparent even with
missing pieces.... a criminal trial though trial needs most or all o the pieces
to make an air tight case good enough to get a conviction.
In this case, we are investigating, we are just gathering pieces and fitting
what we can...we have enough to convict in a civil case imho, but not a criminal
case...so you are correct in that regard. Keep watching Kady.
>or are you just ignoring them because otherwise,
>it's nothing but a coincidence of geography?
I dont ignore very much Kady, when a fact or observation comes in that refutes a
suspicion, I consider that and eliminate that suspicion, or put it on hold
pending more data...only after enough links to cement a piece of the puzzle into
place appear do I post that there are 'some links'....then I post a few of them
so others might look in that direction.
I will never post all that I have until the ball game is over. You do not tell
those attacking you what exact;ly you have on them....you keep them guessing
with a few hints and investigation looking under the appropriate rocks.
You don't tell anyone which rock exactly you intend to lift up next. I surely
don't. But you do leak what worms you found under other rocks, and the
forming general scene as it becomes public data... you help collate the data.
With the cult of scientology the scene is one of a massive criminal empire, with
the CIA involved up to its eyeballs, and with terrorist connections... the 800
million dollar Slatkin mess is just the barest tip of it. Just the size of the
Slatkin mess alone, and the many players, and the dollar sums should be a clue
for you Kady... 5 years ago we had critics on the NG estimating the cults wealth
at under 5 million dollars.
They had no clue you see....this is a criminal empire into to the tens or
hundreds of Billions of dollars a year if you count all the players. My guess
is that cults take alone is at least a billion a year...and growing.
the fact of Helena Kobrins husband the US intelligence agent running that penny
stock scam ATEG... 40 million dollars or so. Are all clooz you see.
For ex CIA director comments on that broader range of issues see:
www.FromThe Wilderness.com book reviews, Phillip Aggies(sp) book, and
economics section.
Phil Scott
(415) 927 7573
>
>K
Phil Scott
>In article <3D8105A8...@WCTAtel.net>, Tom Klemesrud <tom...@WCTAtel.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>"ka...@wwwaif.net" wrote:
>>>
>>> In article <3d8142fc...@news.tdl.com>, phils...@hotmail.com (Phil
>> Scott) wrote:
>>> <snip philphroth>
>>>
>>> >Is Adnan Kashogghi black market weapons dealer to terrorists, and tight
>>> >associate of David Misscarriage and Reedie boy the Felon Slatkin, imaginary?
>>>
>>> Yes. It is. In the real world, outside of your increasingly
>>> bizarre delusions, it is completely and totally imaginary.
>>>
>>> The association between Kashoggi and Slatkin is this: they
>>> have both owned property in the Hope Ranch community near
>>> Santa Barbara. That's it. That's all. Now, either round up
>>> the rest of the Hope Ranch neighbourhood into your
>>> conspiracy theory, or let it go.
>>
>>Kady, Kashoggi's association with scn is a real as it gets. His wife is
>>one. They give big money.
>>Study up before you call something "completely and totally imaginary."
>
>One of his wives, who may in fact, be an ex-wife, is listed
>as taking a few courses.
err...Kady? 'a few courses' ? This Kashogghi scene with the cult went on
through the late 70's and all of the 80's and much of the 90's...hardly a 'few
courses'.
> I study, Tom. Don't ever make the
>mistake that I disagree with crack-inspired conspiracy
>theories out of ignorance.
>
>Plus, I was discussing the connection between Kashoggi and
>Slatkin, not Kashoggi and Scientology. Learn to read before
>you suggest that other people don't know whereof they speak.
:) ah yes I see.... Kashoggi and Scientology is not *necessarily related
to Kashogghi and Slatkin.
Correct. ...except..... we DO have numerous hard core links of Kashogghi to
Slatkin, and Slatkins mentors and financial deals. deals involving Authors
Family Trust B, and same sleaze ball attorneys and shell corporations set up by
the other cultie scum Bayback, Duggan and about 200 other closely linked
players.... about half practicing scientologist, another percentage benefiting
from WISE deals and connected with those players in SEC filings, running the
whore houses etc.
Its like a kiddie porn ring, they may not all be molesting the same children,
but they are swapping the same pictures. Scum you see.
So connecting a few to each other, who are then connected to a third in the same
arena, well thats relevant you see. You dont have to prove each molested the
same child...thats not even relevant.
With the cultie business scum we have overwhelming evidence of this
complicity..... wasnt the Raul Lopez case good enough for you to see how its
done on a smaller scale? All the cultie scum cooperated in ripping off Raul of
all he had.
Phil Scott
>
>
>K
Beverly Rice
> I will not participate in this slanderous and libelous thread that involves a
> innocent teenage girl, but it is worth noting that ARS conspiracy theorists
> have never meet a conspiracy theory they don't like, as long as some nut ball
> says Scientology is involved it is accepted as gospel truth by the lunatic
> fringe.
Nut Ball Conspiracy:
"Our enemies on this planet are less than twelve men. They are
members of the Bank of England and other higher financial
circles. They own and control newspaper chains, and they are,
oddly enough, in all the mental health groups which have sprung
up in the world. These chaps are very interesting fellows.
They have fantastically corrupt backgrounds; illegitimate
children; government graft; a very unsavory lot. And they
apparently, sometime in the rather distant past, had determined
on a course of action. Being in control of most of the gold
supplies of the planet, they entered upon a program of bringing
every government to bankruptcy and under their thumb, so that no
government would be able to act politically without their
permission."
(Source: RJ 67)
ARC = As-Ising the Real CST,
Beverly
Phil Scott
>>However, the eyes of ARS are on this issue now, and nothing in the >>end gets by that screen...this is not to mention the hundreds of PI's in >>the Slatkin case,
>>who will be interested in this broader picture as it defines the scope of cult
>>criminality and complicity with the international criminal and terrorist
>>underworld.
>Yeah ... sure.
err Diane are you saying the cult is NOT a 'classically terrorist organization'
with long term ties to black market weapons dealer, Adnan Kashogghi, and that
one of his wives was not a Scientologist...:) a fairly close tie in itself you
see....something along the lines arranged for Mohamed Atta possibly, another
criminal Saudi...both involved with terrorists... Adnan selling weapons, Atta
flying into the WTC.
And Adnan living a few doors way from Reedie Slatkin and doing heavy scams with
Reedie boys mentors, Michael Bayback, Duggan, and thier buddie Richard Friedland
the LSD salesman.
Sorry those are just the established facts.... now...... was it the cult who
fixed Atta up with Amanda Keller? or was it *another Amanda Keller. :)))
hahahahahhahahahha... ah yes. It must of been ANOTHER Amanda Keller. Now
aint that likely in light of all the other connections? and guess what?
Now Amanda has dissapeared? and cant talk because she 'could get introuble'
Keep spinning sweetheart. You are only fooling a few idiots..and cultie clones.
Enguiring minds sure as hell want to know. I think in the end we will find as
the investigator suggests, that its the cult of Scientology Sea Org staffer,
Amanda Keller that they set up to live with Mohammed Atta.
But the jury is still out on that. Meantime you can call me a conspiracy
theorist, as far as Atta goes at least....but obviously not as far as Adnan
Kashogghi and his cultie wife go...ior on the cults terrorist predilections,
unless you wish to go against Time Magazine on that score. the cult did you
know........ the cult lost.
QED
You see how that works of course.
ka...@wwwaif.net
Prove it. I'll accept any first person acct that isn't from
someone like, oh, Fishman, as well as any list of course
completions or donors that includes Khashoggi.
>
>
>> I study, Tom. Don't ever make the
>>mistake that I disagree with crack-inspired conspiracy
>>theories out of ignorance.
>>
>>Plus, I was discussing the connection between Kashoggi and
>>Slatkin, not Kashoggi and Scientology. Learn to read before
>>you suggest that other people don't know whereof they speak.
>
> :) ah yes I see.... Kashoggi and Scientology is not *necessarily related
>to Kashogghi and Slatkin.
That's correct.
>Correct. ...except..... we DO have numerous hard core links of Kashogghi to
>Slatkin, and Slatkins mentors and financial deals. deals involving Authors
>Family Trust B, and same sleaze ball attorneys and shell corporations set up by
>the other cultie scum Bayback, Duggan and about 200 other closely linked
>players.... about half practicing scientologist, another percentage benefiting
>from WISE deals and connected with those players in SEC filings, running the
>whore houses etc.
No, you don't. If you have *actual proof*, in the form of
documentary evidence, or an affidavit or first person
account from someone credible, lay it on us now, Phil. Right
now, you have *nothing*.
>Its like a kiddie porn ring, they may not all be molesting the same children,
>but they are swapping the same pictures. Scum you see.
By this logic, anyone using American currency is part of a
grande conspiracy.
>So connecting a few to each other, who are then connected to a third in the
> same
>arena, well thats relevant you see. You dont have to prove each molested the
>same child...thats not even relevant.
You do if you're claiming that there's a collection.
>With the cultie business scum we have overwhelming evidence of this
>complicity.....
Okay. Bring it on. Evidence. Not ramblings. Not rantings.
Not Phil's Bedtime Stories. Real, hard, verifiable evidence.
wasnt the Raul Lopez case good enough for you to see how
its
>done on a smaller scale? All the cultie scum cooperated in ripping off Raul of
>all he had.
The difference *there*, oh crazy one, is that in that case,
not only were the people involved all Scientologists, but
they were *proveably linked* financially through a myriad of
prison phone/long distance card companies. In fact, there
was one *family* that was deeply involved in taking Lopez
for everything he had. As in, Mom, Dad and the kids. That's
a little different from your painfully contrived links
between Khashoggi and Slatkin, let alone Mohammed Atta.
Evidence, Phil. Now's the time to whip it out. Hard
evidence. Not rantings.
K
ka...@wwwaif.net
<snip phrothing except for this>
Phil, considering I co-wrote that website, I really don't
think you have to give me the URL I already know it doesn't
back up any of your conspiracy theories.
Now, prove it. Evidence. Ball, your court, etc.
K
Keith
>Nut Ball Conspiracy:
Well at least he didn't name some teenage girl as part of some conspiracy
that is completely innocent of what the screwballs on ARS are charging.
--
Best Regards,
Keith
http://home.attbi.com/~n6jpa/
Win32 Freeware
PGP/Open PGP
NW Oregon Shortwave, Ham and Police/Fire Radio
Phil Scott
>
> I will not participate in this slanderous and libelous thread that involves a
>innocent teenage girl, but it is worth noting that ARS conspiracy theorists
>have never meet a conspiracy theory they don't like, as long as some nut ball
>says Scientology is involved it is accepted as gospel truth by the lunatic
>fringe.
Pile on cult boy...your cult is seen to be dirtier every passing month or so.
Here is my latest response on that issue. Enjoy. 10,000 lurkers sure will,
and they will copy and distribute it...and them more people will find more
things, and we will have an army of Reedie boy the felon Slatkins queing up for
prison time, and pandering, and associating with *known terrorists.
You do realize of course that at this late stage most of the scum on your cult
we see floating to the surface turns out to be genuine scum (tm)..
On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 22:33:05 GMT, ref...@bway.net (Diane Richardson) wrote:
Phil Scott typed:
>>However, the eyes of ARS are on this issue now, and nothing in the >>end gets by that screen...this is not to mention the hundreds of PI's in >>the Slatkin case,
>>who will be interested in this broader picture as it defines the scope >>of cult criminality and complicity with the international criminal and >>terrorist underworld.
Ms Richardson replies, her previous obfuscations snipped.
>Yeah ... sure.
err Diane are you saying the cult is NOT a 'classically terrorist organization'
with long term ties to black market weapons dealer, Adnan Kashogghi, and that
one of his wives was not a Scientologist... :) a fairly close tie in itself
you see....something along the lines arranged for Mohamed Atta possibly, another
criminal Saudi...both involved with terrorists... Adnan selling weapons, Atta
flying into the WTC.
And Adnan living a few doors way from Reedie Slatkin and doing heavy hundred
million dollar scams with Reedie boys mentors, Michael Bayback, Duggan, and
thier buddie Richard Friedland the LSD salesman (who was run out of Canada for
hundreds of millions in financial crimes and current resides in Singapore or
wherever)
Sorry those are just the established facts.... now...... was it the cult of
scientology who fixed Atta up with Amanda Keller? or was it *another Amanda
Keller. :))) hahahahahhahahahha...
ah yes. It **must of been ANOTHER Amanda Keller. Now aint that likely in
light of all the other connections? and guess what? Now Amanda has
dissapeared? and can't talk because she 'could get introuble'... can't find
the cultie Amanda anymore. Dang...what a coincidence.
Keep spinning sweetheart. You are only fooling a few idiots..and cultie clones.
Enguiring minds sure as hell want to know. I think in the end we will find as
the investigator suggests, that its the cult of Scientology Sea Org staffer,
Amanda Keller that they set up to live with Mohammed Atta the WTC terrorist,
months before his crime..
But the jury is still out on that. Meantime you can call me a conspiracy
theorist, as far as Atta goes at least....but obviously not as far as Adnan
Kashogghi and his cultie wife go...or on the cults terrorist predilections,
unless you wish to go against Time Magazine on that score. the cult did you
know, they sued Time Mag for 20 million dollars or so in 1991 or so........ a
jury heard the evidence.
the cult lost...big time
QED
You see how that works of course.
What some on the AMS NG need to know, is that the cult of scientology has a
record of turning *some ( a few) of its attractive female members into whores in
order to infiltrate govts and corporations world wide.
One person on the NG, one hell of a nice guy, an opinion leader, with a
daughter on Scientology staff, the Sea Org I think, needs to look into this
issue, and not by asking the cult leaders either...but on his *own
investigation... his computer though will have the cults net nanny on it so my
posts, and critical links will be screened from him...and if he sees any such
criticism or exose, and reads it...well the cult will cut him off from his
eternal 'salvation' by denying him more of the cults 'services'.
So he is in a bind.. But long time members are coming out in a steady stream
these days, some with families in tact, others alienated from thier children
that cult still has under thier spell...a sad situation. a tough situation.
This guy both needs and deserves his friends more than ever now.
I've seen it happen several times with people I knew very well, and who talked
to me about it... I saw Sharon Thomas, an innocent babe and half, no make up,
clean bright... friendly, turned into a jaded shell, in heavy make up and
cynical to the core after being in the cults espionage unit for just a
year...later we find she was used to entice top level business executives into
the cult.. Ex cult thugs have also testified to the practice.
See the Mike McLaughry affidavit, he led cult infiltration into US govt offfices
and corporatins in California for 15 years or so, and dirty tricks, he mentions
operations where politicians and one time a pregnant woman had LSD put on thier
toothpaste. And several suicides and attempts to induce suicide. its on one
or all of the following web sites:
www.lermanet.com
www.xenu.net
www.AltReligionScientology.org
Phil Scott
(415) 927 7573
>Diane Richardson
>ref...@bway.net
>
Phil Scott
>In article <3d816c59...@news.tdl.com>, phils...@hotmail.com (Phil Scott) wrote:
><snip phrothing except for this>
>
>>
>>www.SlatkinFraud.com
>>
>
>Phil, considering I co-wrote that website, I really don't
>think you have to give me the URL I already know it doesn't
>back up any of your conspiracy theories.
Well good job... too bad George Soro's connections to Earthlink and of course
Reedie boy were left out. I could have sworn I saw Georgie on the first
investor list. Oh well Nice job in any event.
And its since been posted that Georgie boy is quite taken with Sky Dayton and
the earthlink potential...and no I dont log all the references... but if you get
snitty enough someone will repost them for you in spades I believe.
And yes indeed the Slatkin mess is only one aspect of the larger puzzle,
standing alone, not connected to his pals we have listed on SEC reports, the
picture is quite incomplete. :) But of course we aint quite that
stoopid...we notice who is connected to whom, and in what businesses and frauds
etc..
.now THATS quite interesting. Dont you think? Did you notice who was involved
with ATEG and WWC, especially from their first unedited web sites? Hu?
surely you have seen these with all the old USGO scum and the US govt spooks in
bed together.
In doing my best to point out the other links that form the larger picture....
You have chosen I see not to comment on the Adnan Kashogghi connections again.
Oh well. You know, aside from being a frequent visitor to the flag land base,
he is listed as heavily involved in both the Afgan drug and arms trade.,, and so
is the CIA, and so is the cults lead attorney, Helen Kobrin *married to a US
intelligence agent.... duh. and the whole mess in bed with Adnan...and now it
appears quite possibly Mohamed Atta.
and Adnan is a cultie pal with Michael Bayback and the boys. For decades. The
Saudi's have money you know, the cult just loves that. Do you think the cult is
fixing them up with women? Or did Ms Kashogghi the scientologist seek Adnan
out...and if we find as I strongly suspect that Amanda Keller in bed with Atta
how did that happen? She being a captive Sea Orger living on the cults propert
and carefully controlled in her movements. See.
Vewy vewy interesting questions...no? I suggest you read some of the
affidavits that address the issue of how the cult uses women to suck in public
officials, rich business men etc.
Then get back to me in about a year when its common knowledge, with a mountain
of new evidence. Meantime I will be pointing at what we have...and its quite a
bit. Myself and others have posted the evidence repeatedly...I will not be
retyping it here each time I reply.
www.xenu.net www.AltReligionScientology.org see affidavidavits section.
clues you see, none of which constitutes 100% evidence standing alone. but
together, well at least some of us are getting the picture. Time Magazine for
example got the picture over 12 years ago.
>Now, prove it. Evidence. Ball, your court, etc.
Enough has been proven already, on this NG and in court findings to show the
cult mess for what it is in many but *not all areas. The rest of the evidence
will be posted when it is appropriate. .. and in the end will emerge the
truth..right now we only know part if it....and not all of that by a long shot
is published.
Meantime you or anyone else can maintain that the cult is a batch of choir boys
if you like. I'll maintain the oposite...and we both can watch how these
chips fall. So far the cult is going down in smoke and the expose is getting
broader, and more damning each day.
Phil Scott
>
>K
ka...@wwwaif.net
>On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 23:26:53 GMT, ka...@wwwaif.net (ka...@wwwaif.net) wrote:
>
>>In article <3d816c59...@news.tdl.com>, phils...@hotmail.com (Phil
> Scott) wrote:
>><snip phrothing except for this>
>>
>>>
>>>www.SlatkinFraud.com
>>>
>>
>>Phil, considering I co-wrote that website, I really don't
>>think you have to give me the URL I already know it doesn't
>>back up any of your conspiracy theories.
>
>Well good job... too bad George Soro's connections to Earthlink and of course
>Reedie boy were left out. I could have sworn I saw Georgie on the first
>investor list. Oh well Nice job in any event.
No, you didn't. I know, because I have the original investor
list. I have the interim creditor list. I also have a list
of people who initially filed claims when the story broke.
No George Soros. Nowhere. Not at all.
>And its since been posted that Georgie boy is quite taken with Sky Dayton and
>the earthlink potential...and no I dont log all the references... but if you
> get
>snitty enough someone will repost them for you in spades I believe.
I'm not arguing whether George Soros invested in ELNK. He
did. Presumably, he's happy with how that investment has
done. The fact that he invested in Earthlink does not make
George Soros, Sky Dayton or Earthlink sinister. Reed Slatkin
bilked many of his fellow Earthlink investors out of money
too.
>
>And yes indeed the Slatkin mess is only one aspect of the larger puzzle,
>standing alone, not connected to his pals we have listed on SEC reports, the
>picture is quite incomplete. :) But of course we aint quite that
>stoopid...we notice who is connected to whom, and in what businesses and frauds
>etc..
>
>..now THATS quite interesting. Dont you think? Did you notice who was
> involved
>with ATEG and WWC, especially from their first unedited web sites? Hu?
>surely you have seen these with all the old USGO scum and the US govt spooks in
>bed together.
The former USGO scum are at WWC. The former US spooks are at
ATEG. There is no business relationship that I know of
between ATEG and WWC. In fact, at this point, there's no
WWC, and there's no ATEG, since both dissolved into pathetic
bankruptcy. So if it's a conspiracy, it is so hideously
incompetent as to be not worth worrying about.
>In doing my best to point out the other links that form the larger picture....
>You have chosen I see not to comment on the Adnan Kashogghi connections again.
>Oh well. You know, aside from being a frequent visitor to the flag land base,
>he is listed as heavily involved in both the Afgan drug and arms trade.,, and
> so
>is the CIA, and so is the cults lead attorney, Helen Kobrin *married to a US
>intelligence agent.... duh. and the whole mess in bed with Adnan...and now it
>appears quite possibly Mohamed Atta.
Phil, prove your allegation that Khashoggi was a "frequent
visitor" to the Flag landbase. Prove it now, or lose the
claim.
Phil's proof goes here ---->
>and Adnan is a cultie pal with Michael Bayback and the boys. For decades. The
>Saudi's have money you know, the cult just loves that. Do you think the cult
> is
>fixing them up with women? Or did Ms Kashogghi the scientologist seek Adnan
>out...and if we find as I strongly suspect that Amanda Keller in bed with Atta
>how did that happen? She being a captive Sea Orger living on the cults propert
>and carefully controlled in her movements. See.
>Vewy vewy interesting questions...no? I suggest you read some of the
>affidavits that address the issue of how the cult uses women to suck in public
>officials, rich business men etc.
Look, Phil, I've read affidavits. I've done research. I did
the GORoundup, I co-wrote DIGL-WATCH and the WWC page. The
fact is that the bizarre delusions of worldwide
Scientological financial chicanery on a billion dollar
scale happens to be directly pertinent to the area of
investigation that I do best.
That's why your crackpot theories piss me off; because
people are less likely to pay attention to *real* examples
of corruption, fraud and assorted other perfidious
behaviours. Some of us work our asses off to be able to
back up our claims with real, hard evidence. We don't have
the luxury of just being able to spew out fantastical
gobbledygook like you.
>Then get back to me in about a year when its common knowledge, with a mountain
>of new evidence. Meantime I will be pointing at what we have...and its quite a
>bit. Myself and others have posted the evidence repeatedly...I will not be
>retyping it here each time I reply.
>
>www.xenu.net www.AltReligionScientology.org see affidavidavits section.
>
I've READ the affidavits. I probably OCR-corrected some of
those affidavits.
>clues you see, none of which constitutes 100% evidence standing alone. but
>together, well at least some of us are getting the picture. Time Magazine for
>example got the picture over 12 years ago.
>
Now you're just raving like LRH on a bender.
>www.FromTheWilderness.com
>
>>Now, prove it. Evidence. Ball, your court, etc.
>
>Enough has been proven already, on this NG and in court findings to show the
>cult mess for what it is in many but *not all areas. The rest of the evidence
>will be posted when it is appropriate. .. and in the end will emerge the
>truth..right now we only know part if it....and not all of that by a long shot
>is published.
If you can prove that Khashoggi is a Scientologist and close
friend of Miscavige, do it now. Then we can start working on
the rest of your theory about SO sex kittens and the
terrorists who love them.
>Meantime you or anyone else can maintain that the cult is a batch of choir boys
>if you like. I'll maintain the oposite...and we both can watch how these
>chips fall. So far the cult is going down in smoke and the expose is getting
>broader, and more damning each day.
When have I ever suggested that Scn is a batch of choir
boys? I'm suggesting that you are full of shit at best, and
mentally unhinged at worst. Two entirely different things.
K
PS Yes, yes, this is the last time I'll be replying to
Philphroth unless he actually comes forward with hard
evidence to back up even one of his loony claims.
Beverly Rice
> Well at least he didn't name some teenage girl as part of some conspiracy
> that is completely innocent of what the screwballs on ARS are charging.
How many "screwballs" are making that statement, name them.
1 . . . 2, maybe three?
Talk about victimizing a young girl . . .
Co$ had no qualms about doing so with Keith Henson's daughter,
Amber:
http://www.holysmoke.org/kh/kh003.htm
And the church of scientology had no qualms about dragging in
Bob Mintons young daughters with campaigns that were harassive
and geared to cause them upset:
http://members.aol.com/clkates/kidsattack.txt
http://members.aol.com/clkates/kidspick2.txt
http://members.aol.com/clkates/newattack.txt
Just a few examples of how a church "handles" children of enemies . . .
but I also agree that until anyone has actual ~proof~ that
that Atta/Keller Amanda is the same Amanda Keller that was
required by Co$ to follow the HubTOADian policy protocol of
"Disconnection" from any and all family members that the Co$
has labeled as PTS/SP, then it should be stated as being only
speculation.
Who is the Amanda Keller that is being refered to here?
http://www.ecentral.com/members/skeller/
Some HubTOADian "Pearls of Wisdom" from Ill Rum re family:
"And your thetan, by the way, can much more easily go into a group.
Families are not good groups; they're bad groups."
LRH, From the taped lecture
"Flows: Patterns of Interaction"
10 December 1952
"Perhaps the most insidious thing that can happen to a child is the
exterior ally. Until you have processed a number of people you may not
realize how deadly is the ally in the sympathy engram. Grandparents
should not be permitted into the home of their grandchildren until they
have learned how to behave themselves Dianetically. ...... "
Page 59
CHILD DIANETICS - Processing of Children
by L. Ron Hubbard
Bridge Publications
Los Angeles, CA
1989
Ill Rum HubTOAD tells you what markers to identify Potential
Trouble Sources by . . .
scientologically, of course:
SOURCES OF TROUBLE
Policies similar to those regarding physical illness and insanity
exist for types of persons who have caused us considerable
trouble.
These persons can be grouped under "sources of trouble." They
include:
a. Persons intimately connected with persons (such as marital or
familial ties) of known antagonism to mental or spiritual
treatment or Scientology. In practice such persons,' even when
they approach Scientology in a friendly fashion, have such
pressure continually brought to bear upon them by persons with
undue influence over them that they make very poor gains in
processing, and their interest is solely devoted to proving the
antagonistic element wrong.
They, by experience, produce a great deal of trouble in the long
run as their own condition does not improve adequately under such
stresses to effectively combat the antagonism. Their present time
problem cannot be reached as it is continuous, and so long as it
remains so, they should not be accepted for auditing by any
organization or auditor.
b. Criminals with proven criminal records often continue to
commit so many undetected harmful acts between sessions that they
do not make adequate case gains and therefore should not be
accepted for processing by organizations or auditors.
c. Persons who have ever threatened to sue or embarrass or attack
or who have publicly attacked Scientology or been a party to an
attack and all their immediate families should never be accepted
for processing by a Central Organization or an auditor. They have
a history of only serving other ends than case gain and commonly
again turn on the organization or auditor. They have already
barred themselves out by their own overts against Scientology and
are thereafter too difficult to help, since they cannot openly
accept help from those they have tried to injure.
d. Responsible-for-condition cases have been traced back to other
causes for their condition too often to be acceptable. By
responsible-for-condition cases is meant the person who insists a
book or some auditor is "wholly responsible for the terrible
condition I am in." Such cases demand unusual favors, free
auditing, tremendous effort on the part of auditors. Review of
these cases shows that they were in the same or worse condition
long before auditing, that they are using a planned campaign to
obtain auditing for nothing, that they are not as bad off as they
claim, and that their antagonism extends to anyone who seeks to
help them, even their own families. Establish the rights of the
matter and decide accordingly.
e. Persons who are not being audited on their own determinism are
a liability as they are forced into being processed by some other
person and have no personal desire to become better. Quite on the
contrary, they usually want only to prove the person who wants
them audited wrong and so do not get better. Until a personally
determined goal to be processed occurs, the person will not
benefit.
f. Persons who "want to be processed to see if Scientology works"
as their only reason for being audited have never been known to
make gains as they do not participate. News reporters fall into
this category. They should not be audited.
g. Persons who claim that "if you help such and such a case" (at
great and your expense) because somebody is rich or influential
or the neighbors would be electrified should be ignored.
Processing is designed for bettering individuals, not progressing
by stunts or giving cases undue importance. Process only at
convenience and usual arrangements. Make no extraordinary effort
at the expense of other persons who do want processing for normal
reasons. Not one of these arrangements has ever come off
successfully as it has the unworthy goal of notoriety, not
betterment.
h. Persons who "have an open mind" but no personal hopes or
desires for auditing or knowingness should be ignored, as they
really don't have an open mind at all, but a lack of ability to
decide about things and are seldom found to be very responsible
and waste anyone's efforts "to convince them."
i. Persons who do not believe anything or anyone can get better.
They have a purpose for being audited entirely contrary to the
auditor's and so, in this conflict, do not benefit. When such
persons are trained, they use their
training to degrade others. Thus, they should not be accepted for
training or auditing.
j. Persons attempting to sit in judgment on Scientology in
hearings or attempting to investigate Scientology should be given
no undue importance. One should not seek to instruct or assist
them in any way. This includes judges,
boards, newspaper reporters, magazine writers, etc. All efforts
to be helpful or instructive have done nothing beneficial, as
their first idea is a firm "I don't know" and this usually ends
with an equally firm "I don't know." If a person can't see for
himself or judge from the obvious, then he does not have
sufficient powers of observation even to sort out actual
evidence. In legal matters, only take the obvious effective steps
-- carry on no crusades in court. In the matter of reporters,
etc., it is not worthwhile to give them any time, contrary to
popular belief. They are given their story before they leave
their editorial rooms and you only strengthen what they have to
say by saying anything. They are no public communication line
that sways much. Policy is very definite. Ignore.
To summarize sources of trouble, the policy in general is to cut
communication, as the longer it is extended, the more trouble
they are. I know of no case where the types of persons listed
above were handled by auditing or instruction. I know of many
cases where they were handled by firm legal stands, by ignoring
them until they changed their minds, or just turning one's back.
In applying such a policy of cut communication, one must also use
judgment as there are exceptions in all things, and to fail to
handle a person's momentary upset in life or with us can be quite
fatal. So these policies refer to non-Scientology persons in the
main or persons who appear on the outer fringes and push toward
us. When such a person bears any of the above designations, we
and the many are better off to ignore them.
Scientology works. You don't have to prove it to everyone. People
don't deserve to have Scientology as a divine right, you know.
They have to earn it. This has been true in every philosophy that
sought to better man.
And the less enturbulence you put on your lines, the better, and
the more people you will eventually help.
THE STRESS OF POLICY
All the above "sources of trouble" are also forbidden training,
and when a person being trained or audited is detected to belong
under the above headings (a) to (j), he or she should be advised
to terminate and accept refund which must be paid at once and the
full explanation should be given them at that time. Thus, the few
may not, in their own turmoil, impede service to and the advance
of the many.
Scientology is an applied philosophy designed and developed to
make the able more able. In this sphere it is tremendously
successful.
Efforts to involve philosophy with medical imperialism,
psychiatric sadism, the bigoted churchman, bring about a slowing
of our progress.
These people are sick spiritually because of their own continuous
harmful actions against patients and the society and are beyond
our normal means to help.
These policies will continue in existence until such time as
those interested care to invest the time and treasure necessary
to build the institutions and reeducate the professions which now
practice medical and physical mental healing, and this is
definitely not within our time, but would belong to some remote
future when more men are sane.
However, such a program would depend upon the continued existence
of the medical imperialist and the psychiatrist, and as their
more reprehensible activities are rather new and very radical,
they may be abandoned by public and government long before
Scientology could help them. This is probably the more likely
occurrence as even in Russia the communist has now forsworn all
violent treatments of the insane according to their delegates to
the London Medical Conference of this year, and Russian
practitioners look with contempt and scorn upon the Western
psychiatrist. The medical doctor of England, taken over by
socialism, has lost his ambition for medical imperialism and has
no contest with Scientology. In the United States the American
Medical Association has become locked in mortal combat with the
government and probably will be socialized entirely in a few
years due to fee abuses and lack of gains. The medical doctor
remains strong only in more backward small nations such as
Australia where world trends are late in arriving.
Even the Church in Rome is considering a surrender of principles
and amalgamation with other faiths in an effort to save a
dwindling religious membership.
Thus, there may be no medical practitioner as we know him left in
a few decades. Membership in the psychiatric profession is
declining.
In the place of these institutions, if we ever get around to
them, we may find ourselves dealing with completely different
practices in the fields of physical healing and the treatment of
the insane. All we ask of them is that they are competent in
their treatments and less greedy for monopoly than their
predecessors. And if this is so, then our policies will then
remain fully in force, but in a spirit of cooperation, not with
the desire to protect ourselves and the public from them and the
products of their bungling.
Ours are the powerful communication lines. They are powerful
because they are theta lines. Entheta (enturbulated theta)
obtains all its apparent power by being parasitic on theta lines.
Only when you add the power of our lines to the weakness of
entheta lines can they then have strength.
Example: It was the FCDC communication to its own field about
that government raid that (a) cost the most in cash and (b) did
the most damage. You can actually ignore an entheta line in
almost all cases without the faintest consequence. It only has
power when we let it have power by answering it.
L. RON HUBBARD
Founder
Adopted as official
Church policy by
CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY
INTERNATIONAL
LRH:CSI:jw.cden.ms.gm
Tom Klemesrud
"ka...@wwwaif.net" wrote:
> people are less likely to pay attention to *real* examples
> of corruption, fraud and assorted other perfidious
> behaviours. Some of us work our asses off to be able to
> back up our claims with real, hard evidence. We don't have
> the luxury of just being able to spew out fantastical
> gobbledygook like you.
She does have a valid point here Phil.
Diane Richardson
wrote:
[snip[
>By this logic, anyone using American currency is part of a
>grande conspiracy.
That's "Conspiracy Grande," kady, and it's this week's special at Taco
Bell. For a mere $3.95 you get a full combo meal minus one taco.
If you supersize that, they throw in a black helicopter for free
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Keith
Phil Scott <phils...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 20:54:35 GMT, Keith <n6jpa...@attbi.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I will not participate in this slanderous and libelous thread that involves a
>>innocent teenage girl, but it is worth noting that ARS conspiracy theorists
>>have never meet a conspiracy theory they don't like, as long as some nut ball
>>says Scientology is involved it is accepted as gospel truth by the lunatic
>>fringe.
>
> Pile on cult boy...your cult is seen to be dirtier every passing month or so.
>
Are you off your meds again, Phil?
--
"GunBunny isn't a person, it's an attitude"
Cause I've got faith of the heart. I'm going where my heart will take me.
I've got faith to believe. I can do anything. I've got strength of the soul.
And no one's gonna bend or break me. I can reach any star. I've got faith,
I've got faith, faith of the heart.
Diane Richardson
wrote:
>On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 22:33:05 GMT, ref...@bway.net (Diane Richardson) wrote:
>
>>>However, the eyes of ARS are on this issue now, and nothing in the >>end gets by that screen...this is not to mention the hundreds of PI's in >>the Slatkin case,
>>>who will be interested in this broader picture as it defines the scope of cult
>>>criminality and complicity with the international criminal and terrorist
>>>underworld.
>
>
>>Yeah ... sure.
>
>err Diane are you saying the cult is NOT a 'classically terrorist organization'
>with long term ties to black market weapons dealer, Adnan Kashogghi, and that
>one of his wives was not a Scientologist...:) a fairly close tie in itself you
>see....something along the lines arranged for Mohamed Atta possibly, another
>criminal Saudi...
Get your facts straight, Mr. Scott. Mohammed Atta was NOT from Saudi
Arabia. He was an Egyptian.
Slips like this prove you are ranting and dealing with your own
delusions rather than with facts. It also totally destroys any
credibility you might wish to exert on this newsgroup.
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Phil Scott
Well of course its a valid point. But what Ive said, for instance... that its
been long reported that Kashogghi visited the Flag land base on numerous
occasions.... and that has been posted numerous times to the NG by people who
witnessed him at flag on frequent occasions,
Dennis Erlich and others have confirmed that he was at the land base...(no one
has said he was a scnist though.... I have said he does heavy business with cult
members though and thats because I have seen the SEC filings, but unlike Kady
suggests, I have not said he is a scnist and i doubt that he is....is he a WISE
affiliate? Well maybe. he is heavly on record doing busines with WISE members,
at least on the same corporate paper.)...
anyone reading the NG knows that these reports of Kashogghi frequently at the
land base are from credible sources.
On the issue of the SEC documents linking this scum, I am not at liberty to
release them, but they are going into a web page being developed by some of the
prominent people posting the NG and in litigation with the cult, who have been
at odds with the CoS for years... none has lied to me yet, and the faxes etc I
get from them are obviously genuine...and cooberated by the larger scene. The
rest of the cults criminal behaviors etc. and the Kashoggi visits to the cults
Fort Homicide.
When these people compiling this data (some of it btw published in the Time Mag
article and side bars) choose to issue that information in a searchable mapped
data base, that URL will be issued...and not before.
I am merely issuing my **opinion**, based on what I know of the cult personally,
what I read on the NG from credible sources, and what I've seen of the SEC
filings on many dirt ball deals involving this scum.
Phil Scott
Keith
Beverly Rice <dbj...@mpinet.net> wrote:
> Keith wrote:
>
>> Well at least he didn't name some teenage girl as part of some conspiracy
>> that is completely innocent of what the screwballs on ARS are charging.
>
>
> How many "screwballs" are making that statement, name them.
> 1 . . . 2, maybe three?
Knowing ARS this will make it to gospel truth in a few weeks
and people will quote it as an example of how evil Scientology is.
>
>
> Talk about victimizing a young girl . . .
>
> Co$ had no qualms about doing so with Keith Henson's daughter,
> Amber:
>
> http://www.holysmoke.org/kh/kh003.htm
>
A deposition is harassment? Besides Henson has stated numerous times
that he is just having fun with all these court battles with Scientology so
his daughter had to endure a couple hours of questioning, think of it as
sharing in the fun and an education in the law.
If Henson had an once of common sense he wouldn't be sitting at Greg's
house eating potato chips and drinking Pepsi and crying about missing all
those important family events, hell if he would have appealed his conviction
he could be sitting in Palo Alto snacking on potato chips and drinking Pepsi.
What Henson has done with *his* life is just plain sad, you won't get
any tears from me about Henson and his silly campaign to destroy Scientology
that has done nothing, but destroyed his own life in reality.
Phil Scott
>On Fri, 13 Sep 2002 05:10:41 GMT, phils...@hotmail.com (Phil Scott)
>wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 22:33:05 GMT, ref...@bway.net (Diane Richardson) wrote:
>>
>>>>However, the eyes of ARS are on this issue now, and nothing in the >>end gets by that screen...this is not to mention the hundreds of PI's in >>the Slatkin case,
>>>>who will be interested in this broader picture as it defines the scope of cult
>>>>criminality and complicity with the international criminal and terrorist
>>>>underworld.
>>
>>
>>>Yeah ... sure.
>>
>>err Diane are you saying the cult is NOT a 'classically terrorist organization'
>>with long term ties to black market weapons dealer, Adnan Kashogghi, and that
>>one of his wives was not a Scientologist...:) a fairly close tie in itself you
>>see....something along the lines arranged for Mohamed Atta possibly, another
>>criminal Saudi...
Ive seen him reported as a Saudi national, in the same reports that said 9 of 11
of the 911 terrorists were Saudi's.
Regardless that situation one way or another, if he was set up with a woman by
the cult and it was Amanda, its news. Big news...and combined with the cults
long term association Adnan Kashogghi the black market weapons dealer who sells
to terrorist organizations...its even bigger news.
Time will tell...this mess will continue coming out in the wash.
Phil Scott
Phil Scott
>You really are truly disgusting.
Rong again Diane.... there are many people interested in both the criminal cult
of scientogy and the terrorist organization that took out the WTC and murdered
all those people... and when a reputable reporter suggests that he has strong
evidence a cult of scientology Sea Org babe was shacked up with Atta... well its
relevant.
Odd Diane, you have left me alone for the last few years on the NG, but mention
of possible cult connections to Atta gets you into high gear trying to discredit
me with spin.
sorry.... its not working.
Phil Scott
snip more spin
>Hell, Mr. Gonnet, if you think those Saudi hijackers were just
>the poor victims of vicious U.S. foreign policy, I suggest you pack
>up your bags and immigrate to Saudi Arabia right this minute!
What? Roger didnt say that.. you are spinning again, trying to trash critics of
the criminal cult.... Sorry but flunk...you loose again.
You know 'Diane' you do not seem like the more quick witted and precise Diane of
old. are you sure you didn't sell your use of your address and web connection
to some morons at the cult?
Phil Scott
>
>
>Diane Richardson
>ref...@bway.net
>>
>>
>>roger
>>
>>
>>
>
Claire de Soto
everyone, and I would love to see the story of
Amanda, terrorist-mata hari and scientology-ensign
being verified. Easy, you think? Well, what I
can do from 5000 miles away, I have done, but it
was futile. Neither Mister Hopsicker, the author
of the two Amanda-articles on madcowprod.com, nor
Amanda's father have answered my e-mails. And neither
have the various escort-services in the sarasota
area who I asked if they know the competitor on
the picture on http://www.madcowprod.com/index30.html.
And my post on alt.sex.prostitution is still unanswered
as well.
What is needed here is a voluteer local to the
sarasota area to take some time to find Amanda's
neighbour Stephanie Frederickson (although there is
no Frederickson registered on Airport Avenue, Attas and
Kellers supposed address in Venice, FL., at least
not in the white pages), show her the Amanda's
photo from her father's website and try to locate
Fantasies-N-Lingerie and show the photo around there,
too. I could not find the escort servie on the
internet, but this does not mean that it is not there.
Mr Hopsicker does not seem to be willing to cooperate,
so I think he will either back up from the claim in
one of the next issues of his column, or find some proof.
Don't hold your breath for the latter one, though - the
whole thing seems to be bogus. I'd love to buy into this wild
scoop, but not before Stephanie Frederickson AND Amanda's
employer(s) have verified her identity. Ideas? Volunteers?
Good luck
Claire
Monica Pignotti
> I will not participate in this slanderous and libelous thread that involves a
> innocent teenage girl, but it is worth noting that ARS conspiracy theorists
> have never meet a conspiracy theory they don't like, as long as some nut ball
> says Scientology is involved it is accepted as gospel truth by the lunatic
> fringe.
Sad, but true. I've been wondering, on a psychological level, what
sorts of benefits people get from latching onto these sorts of
theories. Why the need to make the CofS worse than it is? Perhaps
its a continuation of the sort of black and white thinking learned in
the cult, where the "enemy" needs to be made as bad as possible, but
there seem to be others who have never been in cults that conspiracy
theories greatly appeal to. Maybe its the need to engage in some sort
of drama where there are good guys fighting bad guys. Scientology
does this with psychiatry, making it into a big, evil worldwide
conspiracy. I don't know. For me, the documented information about
the CofS is plenty bad enough. I don't feel the slightest need to
make it into an evil, globe-dominating super power. We have enough
real threats in the world to worry about today without adding to them.
There's also a lot of faulty reasoning going on here, such as the idea
that if events coincide, they are related, spinning a complex web out
of events that have simple explanations. Within the CofS itself,
conspiracy theories are very popular. I remember in the 70s there was
a book called ~None Dare Call it Conspiracy~ which was very popular
with many of the Scientologists I knew.
Monica
Phil Scott
Indeed, verification is needed. It could be a scam. Or maybe Hopsicker is not
responding due to the usual threats from the cult in these cases.. Sooner or
later though, most likely sooner some witness will talk one way or the other.
On the untraceable address issue, if it was a cult op, they would have used fake
names and references to rent the apartment, much as they did with having Tory
open ISP accounts for the cults internet mafia in faked names and addresses...
Phil Scott
>
>Good luck
>Claire
Charlie
I know for a fact that one of his wives (I assume it's the one being
referred to here) was receiving services and staying at the Fort
Harrison for at least three months during the latter half of 1993
because I was also staying at the FH and receiving services during
that same time period. I found her to be very friendly and outgoing.
We first met on an elevator ride (recurring theme), sat at the same
table during several meals and chatted in the lobby and in the canteen
on a few occasions. I also ran into her at the beach once, and we
talked. My son was a baby at the time and, being thoroughly adorable
and irresistible to passersby, she exchanged some enthusiastic cooing
with him. (He was a show stealer and magnet for this kind of
attention.) I had no idea who she was until someone later told me. I
was told she stayed on the top floor in the "deluxe" suite.
ka...@wwwaif.net
>ka...@wwwaif.net (ka...@wwwaif.net) wrote in message
>> Prove it. I'll accept any first person acct that isn't from
>> someone like, oh, Fishman, as well as any list of course
>> completions or donors that includes Khashoggi.
>
>I know for a fact that one of his wives (I assume it's the one being
>referred to here) was receiving services and staying at the Fort
>Harrison for at least three months during the latter half of 1993
>because I was also staying at the FH and receiving services during
>that same time period. I found her to be very friendly and outgoing.
>We first met on an elevator ride (recurring theme), sat at the same
>table during several meals and chatted in the lobby and in the canteen
>on a few occasions. I also ran into her at the beach once, and we
>talked. My son was a baby at the time and, being thoroughly adorable
>and irresistible to passersby, she exchanged some enthusiastic cooing
>with him. (He was a show stealer and magnet for this kind of
>attention.) I had no idea who she was until someone later told me. I
>was told she stayed on the top floor in the "deluxe" suite.
>
Correct. Although actually, the version of this story that
is available through FACTnet records is that she rented the
top floor of the hotel during 1991. It's very possible that
either that correspondent got the date wrong, or that she
was there at both times. However, there is absolutely no
indication that her husband took anything more than one or
two introductory courses, if that. His now ex-wife *was* a
generous donor and may well still be a Scientologist. That
does not put Khashoggi himself at Flag on a regular basis,
nor does it make him "best friends" with David Miscavige.
K
Michael 'Mike' Gormez
In article <3D8149...@mpinet.net> , Beverly Rice <dbj...@mpinet.net>
wrote:
>Co$ had no qualms about doing so with Keith Henson's daughter,
>Amber:
>
>http://www.holysmoke.org/kh/kh003.htm
>
>
>And the church of scientology had no qualms about dragging in
>Bob Mintons young daughters with campaigns that were harassive
>and geared to cause them upset:
>
>http://members.aol.com/clkates/kidsattack.txt
>http://members.aol.com/clkates/kidspick2.txt
>http://members.aol.com/clkates/newattack.txt
Perhaps it is about time to put these sickening harassment stories on the
scientology childabuse page as well. Because that is what it is. I had
this lingering in the back of my mind for a couple of years but a) have
so much other stuff to do and b) I don't know in what form that should
be. Perhaps an added section or new short page linked from the main.
A few more links would help for sure.
Mike Gormez
- Scientology and health www.whyaretheydead.net
- 'Religious' child abuse and neglect www.taxexemptchildabuse.net
- Visit Occupied Clearwater with Nessie http://nessie.psychassualt.org/
- The hearing transcripts http://whyaretheydead.net/lisa_mcpherson/bob/
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Tom Klemesrud
Monica Pignotti wrote:
>
> Keith <n6jpa...@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<fa7g9.403716$me6.46415@sccrnsc01>...
> > I will not participate in this slanderous and libelous thread that involves a
> > innocent teenage girl, but it is worth noting that ARS conspiracy theorists
> > have never meet a conspiracy theory they don't like, as long as some nut ball
> > says Scientology is involved it is accepted as gospel truth by the lunatic
> > fringe.
>
> Sad, but true. I've been wondering, on a psychological level, what
> sorts of benefits people get from latching onto these sorts of
> theories. Why the need to make the CofS worse than it is? Perhaps
> its a continuation of the sort of black and white thinking learned in
> the cult, where the "enemy" needs to be made as bad as possible, but
> there seem to be others who have never been in cults that conspiracy
> theories greatly appeal to. Maybe its the need to engage in some sort
> of drama where there are good guys fighting bad guys. Scientology
> does this with psychiatry, making it into a big, evil worldwide
> conspiracy. I don't know. For me, the documented information about
> the CofS is plenty bad enough.
And you feel there is no need to look for any more?
> I don't feel the slightest need to
> make it into an evil, globe-dominating super power.
"Ignore that man behind the curtain"?
> We have enough
> real threats in the world to worry about today without adding to them.
"Let my people go!"
> There's also a lot of faulty reasoning going on here,
I agree here Monica.
It's a novel theory: the criminal cult, which has been adequately
implicated in wrong doings--enough to make them look bad, should from
here on out, get a free pass.
Tom Klemesrud
Thanks Charlie.
Also we know that Adnan lived in a luxury suite at the Sands Hotel in
Las Vegas and was monitored by various spooks.