FAQ: The Tale of Two Lauras, v 1.0
Karin Spaink
Dated: Feb. 8, 1999
Author: Karin Spaink
"There does seem to be some question about identity"
Keith Henson on a.r.s., <hkhensonF...@netcom.com>
INTRODUCTION
------------
In January 1999, Bob Minton <b...@minton.org>, one of the two
directors of FactNet <http://www.factnet.org>, posted a
message to the newsgroup alt.religion.scientology accusing a
woman called Laura Terepin of being a spy for Scientology.
Laura Terepin had been working as a volunteer for CAN (Cult
Awareness Network) for quite some time. Cynthia Kisser, who
was the president of CAN before they were sued out of
existence, publicly expressed serious doubts about Bob
Minton's allegations.
A huge debate ensued on alt.religion.scientology after these
allegations were posted. The most remarkable thing that
happened, is that suddenly somebody stated that there were
_two_ Laura Terepins in existence. Within a couple of days,
that second Laura Terepin announced herself on the
newsgroup.
This is the tale of the two Laura's. It is aimed at tracing
and delineating the story of the both of them, and attempts
to separate hearsay from fact, rumor from accusations,
mistakes from misunderstandings, and coincidences from
probabilities. In short: it is aimed at sorting things out
about them.
NB: Do NOT take this FAQ as an attempt at proving or
disproving FactNet's accusations about a Laura Terepin being
a spy. It is _only_ an attempt to tell the tale of the two
Laura's.
Sources in this FAQ are Usenet and the WWW, not personal
or forwarded e-mail, unless the contrary is explicitly
stated. I have not edited the quotes.
I have tried to include only postings that contain facts
and alleged facts; no gossip or rumors. Sometimes I repeat
quotes that contain accusations or refutations rather
elaborately; in those instances, I do so only because they
also contain (alleged) information about one of the Laura's
involved in this story, or could help to date events.
Message-ids are included wherever possible. Additional
information, put within [brackets], is mine. Missing dates,
names and facts are indicated by a question mark <?>;
uncertain dates, names and facts are indicated by a hash
<#>.
If anybody has any information that he or she believes
should be included in this FAQ, please discuss publicly or
mail me at <ksp...@xenu.org>.
================================================
1. How it all started
------------------------
1.1 The accusation
Bob Minton <b...@minton.org>, director of FactNet, posted a
message to alt.religion.scientology [a.r.s.] on January 19,
1999:
"FACTNet, discovered an OSA operative who had been run in
on Stacy [Brooks] back in May 1998 for the express purpose
of gathering intelligence on my activities and Stacy's. OSA
was successful. They had unfettered access to information
about me and my whereabouts, Stacy's inner circle of
friends, FACTNet records, Dan Leipold's office [*1], Graham
Berry's office [*2] and other juicy bits of info. Not only
that, this plant had worked for the Cult Awareness Network
for years and was an intimate friend of Cynthia Kisser,
Craig Branch [*3] and a number of others active in the
counter-cult movement. Her name is Laura Terepin. She is a
whore who works for the devil named Scientology."
<36a3ec05...@news.tiac.net>
[*1] Dan Leipold is FactNet's attorney and a trusted friend
of Cynthia Kisser's
[*2] Graham Berry is an attorney fighting and suing
Scientology
[*3] In an IRC talk held on Jan 26 1999, Bob explained
a) that Craig Branch is from Watchman Fellowship;
b) that Craig and Laura knew one another well;
c) that "we [i.e. Stacy and Bob] found out last week that
Craig Branch who Dan was talking to was bouncing everything
off Laura in October. We were still thinging to use her but
Craig was bnlowing our cover."
<36b14ce9...@news.xs4all.nl>
Bob further stated that more information would soon be
forthcoming:
"Jesse Prince will post details of how we came to
discover her activities and her daily reports to OSA in LA
when he leaves Wellspring in a couple of days."
<36a3ec05...@news.tiac.net>
1.2 The refutation
On that same day, Jan 19 1999, Cynthia Kisser <c...@mc.net>,
previously the director of CAN, posted a refutation of
FactNet's accusation:
"Laura was of great help to us in the CAN office.
Neither I nor any of the CAN office staff or CAN board ever
saw any indication that she was involved with Scientology,
and we had considerable experience dealing with Scientology
over the years. I know first hand what it is like to have
one's reputation unfairly attacked with the use of
inflammatory language. And this attack on Laura in this
manner is unfair."
<781cs6$kf6$1...@netnews.mc.net>
In the same message, Cynthia stated that although Bob and
Stacy had promised to allow her access to evidence that
would back up their accusation, she had seen or heard none:
"I did receive a call from Bob Minton and Stacy Brooks on
December 18, 1998 regrading allegations that Laura Terepin
had been proven to be a Scientology operative. I asked to
see the proof on which they were basing the claim. I was
told the private investigator who had uncovered this
evidence would be put in touch with me. I waited patiently
but did not receive a call. I informed Bill Rehling, who
had been president of CAN at the time CAN closed as well as
for several years before that, of the allegations at issue,
and he approved of my approach in seeking evidence from Bob
and Stacy.
On January 7 I received another call from Stacy on an
unrelated matter, and brought up to her the fact that I had
not been contacted by the investigator and still wanted to
talk to him. I was given his number, and I specifically
asked that he be contacted first so that he would know that
his client approved him talking to me about his
investigation. I was told this would be done immediately.
I then called the investigator about five days later, and he
refused to talk to me because he had not been given approval
from his client to do so. He did admit he had done an
investigation. He promised to speak with his client and
call me back.
I have never received a call back."
<781cs6$kf6$1...@netnews.mc.net>
1.3 Further accusations
1.3.1 Bob Minton
Still on January 19, 1999, Bob Minton disclosed further
information about Laura Terepin and her alleged lies:
"We hired some PI's with impecable credentials to check
up on a few points about Laura. Laura lied about living
alone in Madison WI. She never mentioned that one of her 3
house mates was a co$ chicago staff member. Laura cell
phones were billed to a Hollywood, CA private investigator
who seemingly had at least 13 other phones billed to him
that were linked to co$ operatives. Laura's boyfriend, who I
went dancing with in SFO with Stacy and the whore, works for
the same PI who handled the phones. And the clincher is that
daily calls to OSA in LA showed up on Laura's phone
records."
<36a4497f...@news.newsguy.com>
The next day, Jan 20 1999, Bob Minton posted a photo of
Laura to alt.binaries.scientology. The picture can now be
found at
<http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/people/turtle.html>.
1.3.2 Jesse Prince
On that same Jan 20, Jesse Prince <jes...@gte.net> posted a
message in which he described his contacts with Laura
Terepin. He too believes that she was a Scientology
operative (OSA op, for short). He describes that he was
introduced to her in LA, in July 1998, via Stacy Brooks. He
goes on:
"she told me she was not employed, nor had she ever been.
Laura seemed to come and go as she pleased, flying here and
there just to be with Stacy and others who were involved in
legal cases against Scientology. Laura worked on organizing
files for CAN and offered her services to Dan Leipold to
help me with an affidavit for the FACTNet case. Laura
refused any money for her work and made it clear she did not
want to be seen in any court case or in any pictures. (..)
According to Laura, her uncle was extremely wealthy and
gave her all the financial support she needed. Laura said
her uncle was heavily into the Mafia and organized crime.
She also implied this same uncle physically and sexually
abused her. She told me she was an adopted child and her
parents ignored her most of the time, sending her off to
camp and private school. She told me a pitiful story about
how her same sex French teacher sexually abused her, which
is why she was a lesbian now. However, in the same breath
she said she had met a man named Kryle, whom she recently
had sex with and she was now not so sure she wanted to
remain a lesbian."
<785bih$ku$1...@news-1.news.gte.net>
After Jesse and Laura started seeing one another, they met
again <undated> when Jesse went to FactNet attorney Dan
Leipold's offices, where Jesse was suddenly presented with a
letter from Scientology's attorneys:
"I met with Dan for the first time, and yes, Laura was
there. She told Dan she would help him organize the files
for the FACTNet case and she would also type an affidavit
for me. The next day Dan's office is swarming with private
investigator and OSA drones trying to deliver a letter to
me. I posted one of the letters just recently. It was from
Elliot Abelson. I don't have the letter to hand but
paraphrased it said he understood I was meeting with lawyers
who were involved in litigation against Scientology. How in
the hell did he know this?"
<785bih$ku$1...@news-1.news.gte.net>
Jesse had indeed posted that letter not too long ago: on
December 12, 1998, in message
<76c1v2$kq$1...@news-2.news.gte.net>. The date on the Abelson
letter he got is July 24, 1998, which thus provides us with
the date of this meeting in Dan Leipold's office.
Jesse tells that they keep meeting one another, sometimes
without previous arrangements:
"I finally arrived in Denver last August to give a
deposition in the FACTNet copyright case and guess who shows
up. (..) Laura Terepin."
<785bih$ku$1...@news-1.news.gte.net>
Bob Minton had posted on August 22 1998 about that
deposition in message <35dfcd8e...@news.tiac.net>:
"Jesse concluded 2 days of questioning by Rosen". That dates
this meeting in Denver between 20 and 22 August 1998.
According to Jesse, afterwards there are two quaint
incidents involving Laura [I include them here so that other
people might help me to date these events]:
"She said she was involved in copying CAN files because
it looked like Scientology would gain possession of the
files. Laura offered to help get the files copied at a
secret location, but we all know what happened. Scientology
lawyers somehow found out where the secret location was and
brought a marshal in with a court order. (..)Right after
this disaster Laura comes to Vashon and she has to have her
pot so I go running off to see if I can help her out. Well,
I did manage to get a little bit which she enjoyed. The next
day I had to leave for the east coast and was met by DEA
agents who had apparently gotten a hot tip. Well, of course,
they found nothing because there was nothing for them to
find. Laura knew my destination and called to see if I
arrived. I had told her I would bring whatever was left over
from the pot I had with me."
<785bih$ku$1...@news-1.news.gte.net>
Jesse explains that after the last incident, FactNet hires a
private investigator to do research on Laura:
"After this little incident a private investigator was
employed and I gave him as much information as I could about
Laura. He came back with confirmation that not only did
Laura live with a current Scientology staff member, she was
making regular phone calls to a private investigator who
works for David Lee who works for Gene Ingram."
<785bih$ku$1...@news-1.news.gte.net>
More than a week later, on Jan 28 1999, Gary Scarff reveals
the name of that PI. It seems he got it via hearsay:
"There is the allegation that Laura is a Scientology
operative that worked for and had her phone bills paid for
by Los Angeles PI, Edwin Richardson (323-661-8880), a Scieno
and WISE member, whose office is in Hollywood. According to
Graham Berry, Laura paid her telephone bills by personal
credit card which conflicts with the premise that someone
else paid them."
<36B0272F...@postoffice.pacbell.net>
1.4 Further refutations
1.4.1 Gary Scarff
Gary Scarff <gar...@earthlink.net> posted on Jan 20 1999
that Bob Minton had told him about the accusations the
previous month. Scarff didn't believe them:
"I am fond of Laura and saw her in recent months when she
was providing clerical assistance to Graham Berry and during
Ursula Caberta's visit to LA. Laura never showed any
indication to me that she was working with Scientology, and
never exhibited any of the nuances or inquisitive mannerisms
I've come to know from my former associations with
Scientology. In the time we have spent together, she never
inquired nor pushed for information from me."
<36A5662A...@earthlink.net>
1.4.2 Jim Beebe
Jim Beebe <jim...@aol.com>, who himself worked at CAN and
knew Laura Terepin, posted the second refutation of
FactNet's allegations on Jan 20:
"Laura called me yesterday morning, crying her heart out.
These were not fake tears. She told me that only messages
of support on the ARS from caring and alert people and a
message of support from Cynthia Kisser got her through the
night."
<19990120134628...@ng-ca1.aol.com>
Further on, Jim gives the first indication that Laura at one
point had been a member of a cult herself:
"I know Laura Terepin quite well. In fact she is one of
the most sincere, caring, giving, hard working persons that
I know I worked with her in the CAN office. She was one of
several volunteers who came in to help out. I can't imagine
a scientology 'plant' working as hard as she did. She was
there 2-5 days a week and I mean she worked with complete
sincerity and dedication. At the time she was quite
reclusive as a result of a serious psychological wounding
from her experience in a cult."
<19990120183728...@ng-fb1.aol.com>
On Jan 30 1999, Jim explains that CAN Laura was one of the
people with whom he tried to copy CAN files before those
were to be handed over to Scientology / Jason Scott [#
research at DejaNews dates this incident in Sept 1999 but
I'm not sure]:
"she and myself were asked by the orginal CAN Board to
participate in a project to Archive the CAN Files. We were
not the only ones helping with this. The CAN Files which
were under Court Seal had been returned to the CAN Board.
(..) Laura T worked very hard and sincerely on this
project to archive the CAN Files."
<19990130172613...@ng-ft1.aol.com>
Jim vehemently denies some of the allegations about Laura
made by Jesse:
"It's funny that none of us at CAN every heard of the
wealthy Mafia uncle. Prince knows her for 10 minutes and
has all of this weird history from her."
<19990120183728...@ng-fb1.aol.com>
On Jan 20 1999, Jim further says:
"Laura is going to issue a statement and. I will have
more to say."
<19990120134628...@ng-ca1.aol.com>
To which he adds on Jan 21, 1999:
"In fact I have read Laura's statement and it is a very
good one. But it was written before the sick and degraded
post from Jessie Prince. I have urged her to put it out but
she may be too devastated now to do anything."
<19990120210215...@ng-ft1.aol.com>
2. Enter the second Laura
----------------------------
2.1 Flood Control
Only a day after Bob Minton had posted his accusation, on
Jan 20 1998, Flood Control <FloodC...@drac.host4u.net> -–
a pseudonymous poster who is involved in hunting down
spammers -- discloses that there are _two_ Laura Terepins:
"PI investigation shows there are / were two "Laura
Terepins." The one at CAN assumed the name "Laura Terepin"
and worked for "Department Twenty" of the Scientology
business. It is a case of stolen identity."
<FloodC...@drac.host4u.net>
[NOTE: I wondered how and why Flood Control would be the
first one to know this. Flood Control, a fairly new player
on a.r.s., would hardly be in a position to get this
information via FactNet. NWU Laura at this stage hadn't made
herself known, nor did NWU Laura at that time know that a PI
had discovered two Lauras.
It seems that Keith Henson, who received mail from NWU
Laura soon after Bob made his first posting about CAN Laura,
discussed the matter on IRC, and that he thus was Flood
Control's source.]
2.2 Keith Henson
A day later, on Jan 21 1999, a.r.s. old-timer Keith Henson
<hkhe...@netcom.com> posted that yes, indeed, there is a
second Laura Terepin:
"it turned out that Bob's original post on "Laura
Terepin" caused some interesting information to flow my way
from someone whoes maiden name was Laura Terepin. It turns
out that she reads ars because she lost a very dear friend
to the cult many years ago. This person says the name with
this spelling is unusual to the point that she can account
for all of those who show up on listings in the US as
relatives.
Now, it is *possible* that there is another with the same
first and last names, heck, there is a gay porn star with
*my* name. (There are some dozens of K Hensons.)
But there is a scientology connection which made my
corespondent wonder if the "Laura Terepin" Bob had
investigated was using her name.
It seems that her ex-friend, the one she lost to Co$ way
back when, is pretty high up in the Chicago org these days.
It seemed to her just too much of a coincidence that
someone picked this name, and its unusual spelling, out of
thin air. She wondered if her ex-friend--Carla Nelson was
her maiden name--is either using this name herself, or
whether she has given it out for someone else to use...
Carla, with her open connection to scn, seems unlikely to
have worked for CAN. But in any case, the former Laura
Terepin (whoes phone number shows up on the search engines)
is not the "Laura Terepin" (?) you experienced."
<hkhensonF...@netcom.com>
[Note: this mail already contains the gist of much that will
later surface in greater detail.]
2.3 TheOtherLauraT
Only a couple of hours later, and still on Jan 21 1999, The
Other Laura <theothe...@hotmail.com> -- henceforth I
will refer to her as NWU Laura, whilst the first one will be
referred to as CAN Laura -- posts in person to a.r.s.. She
explains that Terepin is her maiden name:
"What a horror to log on to a.r.s the other morning and
find my maiden name attached to a post that claimed I was a
whore for Co$. Yup, I am the other Laura Terepin. I am the
Laura Terepin you will find if you do a PeopleFinder search
on the net, but I am NOT the woman named in Bob's post! As
far as I am aware, my parents in MI and my elderly aunt in
NY are the only Terepins in this country. My husband did
his own netsearch when we began getting nutty calls at at
home, and it became apparent that this woman has been using
this name for quite a while, but I doubt that I have an
unknown relative with the same name as me."
<787ila$mt2$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
Further down her post, NWU Laura explains -- like Keith did
previously – that she's suspicious of a possible mistaken
identity. There are too many coincidences:
"It could be a total fluke that this person is wearing my
maiden name. However, I have a reason to wonder: I lost a
very dear friend to the cult back in the 80s. Her
ex-husband (she divorced him to marry another scieno) has
told me that she is quite high in the Chicago org these
days. She knew me as that name (I've always hated it and
had it legally changed). Also, when she got involved with
Co$, she tried to get me to join too. I received two or
three calls from the Chicago org before they gave up on me,
so I know that that name is in a file drawer or database at
the Chicago org. I simply feel it is too much a coincidence
that this woman is wearing my name...perhaps she got it from
my ex-friend, or perhaps this woman IS my ex-friend!"
<787ila$mt2$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In a second message that day, NWU Laura explains about the
nutty phone calls she and her husband received:
"My husband took most of them and I was too upset to ask
him about the gory details. The one he did tell me about
was from some organization we've never had contact with
claiming to need to verify my name and address "for their
records." The one I took was from a guy who called himself
Jeffrey, asking whether I was the person "involved in that
horrible cult." I told him that I wasn't and hung up."
<7883k7$731$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In a third message -- dated the next day, Jan 22 1999 -- NWU
Laura states that she doesn't recognize the woman on the CAN
Laura picture:
"The picture is not of me, nor is it of my ex-friend."
<78a4et$tma$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In that same message she explains that Carla Nelson, the
ex-friend lost to CoS, tried to make her join the cult, and
that she herself has read a.r.s. for quite some time:
"I spent many hours and hours listening to my scieno
friend discuss the tech. She was trying to convince me to
join, of course. In addition, I have been reading this
group for about three years now, and have picked up alot of
the lingo tossed out around here. I was not aware of the
true nature of this cult until I did find a.r.s., and I'll
admit I've been morbidly fascinated ever since."
<78a4et$tma$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
2.4 FactNet and the two Laura's
From a collection of quotes by Bob Minton on IRC, posted
anonymously on Jan 23 1999, it becomes apparent that at
_some_ stage during the PI's investigation, the existence of
two Laura Terepins was discovered:
"<minty> he [the PI] did turn up the other Laura
<minty> she was of no interest to us once we estab
[established] facial identity"
<1999012315...@replay.com>
Bob Minton and Stacy Brooks post on Jan 28 1999, reiterating
FactNet's previous claim about CAN Laura. Regarding NWU
Laura, they state:
"Bob has spoken in the last few days with the confirmed
Laura (nee) Terepin and her husband and has apologized for
any inconvenience this matter has caused them. We regret
that the confirmed Laura Terepin was drawn into this matter
on the internet and again offer her our apologies concerning
this matter."
<36b29b25...@news.tiac.net>
3. Some research on NWU Laura
--------------------------------
NWU Laura provided information; some publicly, some via
e-mail correspondence. Apart from that, various people
collected / told stories, conducted net searches, or
investigated IRL. Their findings are listed here.
3.1 Data on NWU Laura
Warrior <war...@entheta.net> was quick to point out that
the headers of TheOtherLaura's messages pointed to
Northwestern University:
"It appears that it was posted through Northwestern
University as the NNTP-Posting-Host was 129.105.167.66. A
numeric lookup shows that this is laura.anthro.nwu.edu (see
below). (...)
Numeric address lookup:
Name: laura.anthro.nwu.edu
Address: 129.105.167.66 "
<789618$2...@drn.newsguy.com>
The address of the computer TheOtherLaura was posting from,
led Tilman Hausherr <til...@berlin.snafu.de> to conclude:
"So she is an anthropologist..."
<36ee3390...@news.snafu.de>
NWU Laura is quick to corroborate where she works. On Jan 22
1999 she posted:
"Yes. I have been employed by Northwestern University
since 1989. However, I can get in trouble posting to Usenet
during work hours. I used hotmail because this whole thing
has scared the bejesus out of me, and even though I wanted
to tell my story, I did NOT want even MORE people harrassing
me and mine."
<78a55u$ufg$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
[Note: previously, NWU Laura has posted regularly to Usenet
from her work computer, using her university account. But
it's easy to figure that the second reason is the actual
motive, not the first one. And perhaps those weren't during
work hours.]
On Jan 22 1999, colette <c...@nwu.edu> not only verifies that
there is a Laura Terepin working at NWU, but also states
that a couple of months ago, she has received mail from this
NWU Laura via her ordinary account:
"I have an e-mail from a Laura <last name deleted> from
Northwestern, dated Dec. 8, 1998, asking about my Chicago
picket pix to see if I caught the name of one of the
Scientologists in my pictures. She said one of them
resembled a dear friend of hers that she'd lost to the cult
years ago, and who she'd heard became quite a high-up
member. (..)
I can also verify through university records (public)
that she has been, indeed, an employee of the Northwestern."
<cdm-220199...@marine.ils.nwu.edu>
The next day, colette elaborates on Laura's status at NWU:
"She is a fellow member of the staff here at
Northwestern. I have verified through university sources
that she is "real." I have looked at her web page (with
pictures). She is the real deal."
<cdm-220199...@marine.ils.nwu.edu>
The day after, on Jan 24 1999, colette posts:
"One thing I don't have any way of knowing for *sure*
about this Northwestern Laura is that her maiden name really
was Terepin. However, the address that shows up for Laura
Terepin in people.yahoo.com matches the address listed for
this person in this NU directory I have on my desk (this one
happens to be from '96)."
<cdm-230199...@marine.ils.nwu.edu>
Colette summarizes whatever she knows on Jan 25 1999 in
<cdm-250199...@marine.ils.nwu.edu>; in that message,
she outlines the range and scope of her contacts with
TheOtherLaura.
3.2 Past data on NWU Laura
3.2.1 Usenet
NWU Laura has posted a few messages to a.r.s. before 1999.
The most noticeable posting is the one she made on July 31
1996. In it, she already told what she disclosed again in
Jan 1999: she has lost a friend to Scientology. The name of
the friend is, as we know by now [see 2.2], Carla Nelson.
This is the full text of that posting:
"I'm new to this newsgroup but, unfortunately, not to the
influence of Scientology. In 1984, my best friend took a
job in a chiropracter's office. The chiropracter started
working with one of the consulting arms of the org in order
to increase her client base. Within one year, my friend
began the auditing process and it was downhill from there.
Now, in 1996, this woman has left her husband, has no
friends or contacts out of the org, and has not had a job in
the real world in eight years. This was a woman who was
once vibrant, intelligent, alive and fun--she could have
done *anything* she chose to do, but this is what the
wonderful teachings of the org have reduced her to.
I remember asking her years ago why she wasn't going to
take this so-called state of the art psychological training
and utilize it to create her own therapy practice, as I had
done with the teachings I was studying at the time. She
could not answer. In my opinion, a good teacher (or parent)
knows their job is done correctly when the fledgling can fly
on its own.
This was obviously not the position of Scientology. It's
become clear to me now that the training she was and is
receiving is useless outside of the insular world of the
org.
Well, I'm not sure why I felt the need to write this.
Perhaps because I still mourn for her friendship, even after
so many years. Thanks much for listening."
<4to4m2$8o8...@anthro.nwu.edu>
In a follow-up that same day, NWU Laura further adds:
"After years of unreturned phone calls I've given up
trying to reach her. Now that she's left her hubby (who is
still a close friend of mine) it's almost as if she's fallen
off the face of the earth; even he doesn't know how to get a
hold of her.
She's pretty high up in the org these days, her ex has
told me, so I have a feeling she probably wouldn't be open
to any rational discourse on the subject, even if I did
manage to find her. I've been downloading some of the
juicier bits to pass along to him, at least. Thanks for
your thoughts....."
<4tombr$8o4...@anthro.nwu.edu>
Apart from these July 1986 postings, between August 1986 and
October 1998 NWU Laura posted five other messages to a.r.s.,
all of them in a round-about way dealing with matters
related to CoS: how to find another provider than Netcom
(who had just gotten themselves out of the Klemesrud case
via a settlement), jokes about Travolta etc.
4. Some research about CAN Laura
-----------------------------------
Various people collected / told stories, conducted net
searches, corresponded, or investigated IRL. Their findings
are listed here.
4.1 The current identity of / data on CAN Laura
On Jan 22 1999, Rod Keller <rke...@netaxs.com> discloses
that he was the one who originally introduced CAN Laura to
Bob and Stacy, who in turn introduced her to Jesse:
"I met her at the CIS meeting in Newark. [no date given]
She was standing by the door, having a conversation with
Paul Grosswald [?]. When it was time for dinner, we went
with Bob and Stacy to the hotel restaurant. Paul had a
hamburger. Bob had steak. Stacy and I had blackened salmon.
Laura had mushroom risotto. We had a nice conversation about
her previous cult and its bizarre dietary practices. She
told us she still followed the purging period followed in
the cult, about twice a year. A week or more of nothing but
a green algae drink, followed by a day of almond oil enemas.
It was lovely dinner conversation."
<78ac0c$m...@netaxs.com>
Rod's posting contains the second mention of CAN Laura
having been involved in a cult. The first one was Jim
Beebe's [see 1.4.2.].
In another posting, on Jan 23 1999, Rod Keller establishes
the date of him introducing CAN Laura to Bob and Stacy:
">Was this teh first time Bob and Stacy had met her?
Yes, it was. April 19th, 1998."
<78ddjp$r...@netaxs.com>
On Jan 23 1999, Keith Henson confirms Gary Scarff's posting
that CAN Laura was at Graham Berry's offices:
"According to Graham, the LT from CAN gave a number of
documents from CAN to him through one of his assistants.
Graham produced the documents under discovery in Berry vs
Barton, but when asked in deposition a few days ago, he did
not know where they came from. Moxon and Co decided to
depose the assistant on this and other matters, so rather
than have this information come out a few weeks from now,
the assistant told Graham of the documents origin and Graham
told Moxon in deposition of their origin yesterday (Fri.)
It will be of great interest to see if Moxon and Co issue
a subpoena to depose CAN's LT. If they do, you can write
off CAN's LT being a plant, because even CoS (with their
habit of footbullets) would not subject one of their own
agents to being questioned under oath."
<hkhensonF...@netcom.com>
4.2 The past identity of / data on CAN Laura
On Jan 23 1999, colette, commenting upon emerging questions
about NWU Laura, discloses new information (or, to be more
precise, rumors at that stage) about CAN Laura:
"This "fake" Laura, from what I understand, claims to
have attended Northwestern Law School for awhile, but
records turn up no Terepins enrolled as students within at
least the last 7 years (that's how far back my university
directories go, at the moment). She is also, supposedly,
using a social security number that is only one number off
from the "real" Laura Terepin."
<cdm-220199...@marine.ils.nwu.edu>
[# It is unclear where the claim that CAN Laura has studied
law at NWU originates from.]
5. Laura about Laura
-----------------------
5.1 CAN Laura about NWU Laura
Unfortunately, nothing as of yet.
5.2 NWU Laura about CAN Laura
Ron Newman <rne...@thecia.net> posted on Jan 26 1999 that
NWU Laura had seen the picture of CAN Laura that Bob Minton
had posted. Was it her lost-to-CoS friend or not?:
"She's done that [looking at it], and says that it's not.
(She and I exchanged e-mail on this subject.)"
<78ivbt$b...@edrn.newsguy.com>
6. The plot thickens -- but still gets nowhere
-------------------------------------------------
6.1 The SSN
The matter of the Social Security Numbers
with-only-one-differing-digit described by William Barwell,
aka The Pope <wbar...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> on Jan 25 1999:
"Dan Leipold, FACTnet's lawyer has been in contact with
the real Laura nee Terepin. The social security number was
discussed. The fact that two different #s are being used,
one possibly fake, was acertained by this inquiry. Source,
the real Laura."
<78hnn7$pgl$1...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>
Bob Minton confirmed this on Jan 26 1999:
"The conversation [between Dan Leipold and NWU Laura]
established that the ss#' s had one digit different."
<36ad0605...@news.newsguy.com>
The Pope rehashes an hour after this, still on Jan 26 1999:
"The real Laura nee Terepin has told me in e-mail, that
Leipold already knew about her and had her SS# and other
particulars when she talked to him. The PI had found her
and realized she had nothing to do with the faux Terepin.
Since she had nothing to do with this FACTnet apparently saw
little need to drag her into this. But Leipold was willing
to talk to her when she wanted to talk to them about what
was going on."
<78j7c2$7mn$1...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>
Via e-mail NWU Laura has confirmed that she attempted to get
Dan Leipold on the phone on Jan 19 and Jan 20, after having
read Bob's original posting on a.r.s. (she mailed both Bob
Minton, Keith Henson and Cynthia Kisser about this posting)
and after having gotten Leipold's phone number via Cynthia
Kisser. On Jan 20 or 21 1999, Dan Leipold phoned her back.
She further comments:
"However, Leipold's comment to me that this other LT "had
the same exact SS# except for one number" seems to indicate
that they had investigated me at some level."
<1999012714452...@hotmail.com>
6.2 Stacy and Bob talk
In an IRC talk held on Jan 26 1999, moderated by yours
truly, Bob and Stacy disclose slightly more about CAN Laura
and the research the FactNet PI conducted. They confirm that
Cynthia Kisser has still not seen the evidence about CAN
Laura and Bob states why he felt he had to break the news
about CAN Laura to a.r.s.: FactNet had devised a strategy,
"but the strategy broke when Dan talked to Craig Branch
and he in turn told Laura and we only found that out last
week."
<36b14ce9...@news.xs4all.nl>
6.3 CAN speaks again
On Jan 27 1999, Cynthia Kisser posted -– by way of Jeff
Jacobsen <cul...@primenet.com> –- that she had spoken with
Dan Leipold. The message isn't quite clear on whether she
had seen the PI report regarding CAN Laura; Cynthia is
however severely dissatisfied with whatever she has been
provided with:
"Bob Minton, and Stacy Brooks (Young), board members of
FACTNet, and Jesse Prince have alleged Laura Terepin is an
"operative for the Church of Scientology". The validity of
the whole claim ultimately revolves around phone records
FACTNet claims to have acquired. I have spoken at length
with Dan Leipold in his capacity as counsel for FACTNet.
While stating that he believes such phone records exist, he
claims not to possess the records, nor to have seen the
records, and that the records will not be made available to
me. I cannot, herefore, at this time support the conclusion
by Minton, Brooks and Prince that evidence exists
identifying Laura Terepin as an "operative for the Church of
Scientology"."
<78nrsd$cn8$1...@nnrp03.primenet.com>
On Jan 28 1999, Jim Beebe states that he, and two senior CAN
members, support Cynthia's statement:
"I have no information about or from Laura T. I will say
that some of us are very concerned about her well being. I
have heeded good advice and decided not to put out any
unnecessary commentary or unverifable information. I have
talked with two other CAN staff members who were senior to
me and with CAN longer than I was. Both are very
knowledgeable and respected in this field. Both stated that
they support Laura and the three of us support,
unequivocally, Cynthia Kisser's statements on this matter."
<19990128123329...@ng-fu1.aol.com>
7. Two too similar Laura Terepins
------------------------------------
Disregarding the question whether CAN Laura was an op or not
-- that is NOT the subject of this FAQ -- there are nagging
questions regarding her identity. Joni <jbw...@idt.net>
summarizes them on 28 Jan 1998:
"Do you believe they're two Laura Terepin's in the US?
(..)Doesn't the name, the similar ssn (..) strike you as
just a tad bit odd? Why are there TWO Laura Terepin's both
with ties to the Chicago org? What is the rational
explanation for that? Where is she now? Does she have an
explanation for the name?"
<36AFAC...@idt.net>
7.1 The surname and the SSN
Noel Chiappa <j...@ginger.lcs.mit.edu> does some research
about the prevalence of the surname, and after having
checked three on-line telephone directories for _any_
Terepins in the US, he comes up with:
"Laura Terepin in Chicago, IL
Richard D Terepin in Rochester, MI
F H Terepin in Wilmington, DE
(..) So it's a *really* rare last name."
<78obqu$ojt$1...@grapevine.lcs.mit.edu>
That more or less establishes that the surname is uncommon.
Two incidences of a rare surname can be coincidence; but
having the same first name attached to it, makes it weird.
Plus, there's the matter of the SS numbers: NWU Laura's SSN
and CAN Laura's SSN allegedly differ only one digit (see
6.1). That's weirder.
[Note: NWU Laura explained that the two other Terepins
listed are family. (statement in e-mail to me, Feb 8 1999,
<1999020820263...@hotmail.com>)]
7.2 Past membership of a cult: Terri Hoffman
On Jan 21 1999, while discussing the picture of Laura that
Bob posted, Carol Giambalvo <caro...@aol.com> volunteers
information regarding _which_ cult CAN Laura previously said
she had been a member of:
"The picture is of the Laura Terepin that volunteered for
CAN ... but that doesn't affirm the accusation of a false
identity. Only someone who was in Consciousness Development
with Laura would be able to say that this picture is not the
same person who was in CD."
<19990121093936...@ngol01.aol.com>
A week later, on Jan 29 1999, Carol explains what
'Consciousness Development' is:
"It's the cult Laura belonged to in Texas -- run by Terri
Hoffman -- it's nicknamed the suicide cult."
<19990129113811...@ngol07.aol.com>
Jim Beebe verified in e-mail to me that CAN Laura said she
had been a member, and that both CAN Laura and a CAN officer
considered the group to be destructive (25 Jan 1999,
<f2927245...@aol.com>. In a later e-mail, he states
that CAN Laura "didn't like to talk about this" (25 Jan
1999, <270fa3e6...@aol.com>).
Surprisingly, NWU Laura seems to have been involved in the
same group. Keith Henson says so on Jan 30 1999, probably
based on e-mail NWU Laura sent him:
"The NWU LT was slightly involved long ago in the cult
CAN's LT claimed to have been in--and Carla knew it.)"
<hkhensonF...@netcom.com>
In an e-mail to me dated Feb 3 1999, NWU Laura writes:
"yes, I had a handful of readings from Terri from 2/1987
till 2/1990, and attended a few rituals she held in the
Chicago area during that time frame."
<1999020314534...@hotmail.com>
On Feb 5 1999, NWU Laura posts about her involvement with
Hoffman in a.r.s.: <79fk2r$ddv$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
Note: The Watchman Expositor has a few articles about Terri
Hoffman, who seemed to have been mostly active in Texas and
later on in Chicago. Hoffman's company was actually called
'Conscious Development of Mind, Body and Soul, Inc.', not
'Conscious_ness_ development'.
<http://www.watchman.org/deaths.htm>
<http://www.watchman.org/chicago.htm>
<http://www.watchman.org/close.htm>
Quotes from these articles:
"Nine students and associates of Terri Hoffman have died
sudden deaths leaving her large sums of money or property
launching an investigation by the Dallas County district
attorney's office into her relationship with the deceased.
(Dallas Morning News, 1/8/90 p.1-A)."
<http://www.watchman.org/deaths.htm>
"Two more front page stories reveal that the New Age
teachings of Terri Hoffman have spread outside North Texas
to include a core of devoted followers in Chicago.
Investigations also uncovered another death which fits an
all- too-familiar pattern: "...a 33-year-old follower took a
fatal overdose of pills in 1987, leaving her family puzzling
over the whereabouts of a $125,000 divorce settlement she
had received 10 days earlier,." (Dallas Morning News, Jan.
28, 1990, p. 1-A).
The suicide of Mary Levinson brings to ten the number of
inner-core followers who have given generous donations or
have willed their estates to Hoffman before dying by suicide
or accident."
<http://www.watchman.org/chicago.htm>
FactNet has references to Terri Hoffman and Conscious
Development at
<http://www.xenu.org/factnet/AFF/FILES/CO0294/CO0294.TXT>
(Hoffman convicted of bankruptcy fraud - 1994);
<http://www.xenu.org/factnet/AFF/FILES/CO1092/CO1092AB.TXT>
(Hoffman "Brainwashing" suit stalled - 1992)
7.3 Adoption and abuse
CAN Laura, according to Jesse Prince, stated that she had
been adopted. She also, according to Jesse, implied that she
had been physically and sexually abused by her uncle,
neglected by her parents and sexually assaulted by her
French teacher (see 1.3.2).
NWU Laura has, according to many of her past Usenet
postings, been adopted (message-ids withheld). She has,
according to old Usenet postings, stated that she is an
incest survivor (message-ids withheld).
7.4 Studies and NWU
NWU Laura has studied law (statement in e-mail to me, Feb 8
1999, <1999020820263...@hotmail.com>); where and
when is not known. She works at Northwest University, at the
anthropology department.
CAN Laura seems to claim having studied law at that same
university. The origin of this claim is unclear; the one who
came up with it is colette in
<cdm-220199...@marine.ils.nwu.edu> (see 4.2), who
simultaneously stated that she couldn't find any evidence
for that claim in the University records that go back seven
years.
7.5 Connections to Scientology
NWU Laura has stated that she lost her best friend Carla
Nelson (maiden name) to the cult. Carla joined the Chicago
Org. NWU Laura and Carla's ex-husband Peter (statement in
e-mail to me, Feb 8 1999,
<1999020820263...@hotmail.com>) hoped to get her
out, but didn't manage.
CAN Laura got involved with a few of Scientology's big
enemies: Bob Minton, Stacy Brooks, Jesse Prince. Those three
at one moment suspected (and accused) her of being a
Scientology plant.
7.6 Some differences
Estimating her age from the picture Bob Minton posted, CAN
Laura is ca. 33 (but it unclear when that picture was taken.
According to her past Usenet postings, NWU Laura is 40 right
now.
According to her past Usenet postings, as a child, NWU
Laura was sexually abused by a member of her family.
According to Jesse, CAN Laura implied sexual and physical
abuse by her maffia uncle, neglect by her adoptive parents
and sexual abuse by a teacher.
NWU Laura is married. CAN Laura has a boyfriend. His
name, according to Jesse, is Kryle (see 1.3.2); according to
what somebody [?] told Keith Henson, his name is Crile J.
Carvey and he lives in Burbank; his father, Carvey Sr. Lives
in Salinas, CA. (e-mail, Feb 2 1999,
<1999020216...@netcom2.netcom.com>).
The city CAN Laura was last known to live in, is Madison,
Wisconsin. NWU Laura lives in Chicago.
8. Possible explanations
---------------------------
By now -- Feb 8 1999 -- it seems evident that there is a
false and a real Laura Terepin. Is it a case of mistaken
identity, borrowed identity or stolen identity? The option
that there is a collision of identities must be discarded:
the stories of the two Lauras are simply too much alike.
This is not mere coincidence.
William Barwell, on 27 Jan 1999, comes up with a mischievous
explanation for the existence of two Laura Terepins, which
revolves around Laura's best friend (Carla Nelson is her
maiden name) who joined CoS:
"[NWU] Laura stated that at one time, there was an
attempt by her firend to get her repeatedly to join
Scientology. This woman divorced, and Laura and her this
woman's ex-husband made several attempts to talk this woman
out of Scientology. (..) Her ex-husband and Laura Terepin
probably were considered PTS ones, possibly even twos, and
this woman would probably have been questioned closely about
them. Possibly then, much about Laura nee Terepin's
identity, ect., came from an ethics file in Chicago started
on Laura for her efforts in attempting to talk her friend
out of Scientology at length, in conjunction with the
ex-husband's efforts. (..) A file that was later used to
create a throw away ID for an op. It may have been a oneshot
that worked well enough they stuck with it."
<78o5kn$db$1...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>
Keith Henson, on Feb 2 1999, elaborates the scenario and
comes up with an interesting detail: there seem to be people
who remember NWU Laura in Terry Hoffman's group, _not_ CAN
Laura.
"NWU Laura wrote me that she was slightly involved in
another cult, her boyfriend of the time was deeply involved,
and that Carla Nelson knew about it. CAN's LT got involved
in CAN at a meeting about ten years ago where she claimed to
have been badly damaged by her time in this other cult, thus
providing a reason for being at a CAN gathering and becoming
friends with the CAN organizers.
CAN has always been a paranoid organization (comes with
the job they did). I went to one CAN meeting (Kansas City if
I remember right) along about this time to talk about
memetics in relation to cults and ran into considerable
hostility. I had never been in a cult so they figured I
might be trying to infiltrate. The converse may have been
that someone who claimed to have been damaged by being in a
cult would quickly gain sympathy and acceptance.
Also, if someone did background checking, the association
of NWU Laura with the other cult would provide possible
cover. In fact, Bob did locate former members of the other
cult who remembered a Laura Terepin, but in retrospect, they
were almost certainly remembering NWU Laura.
These factors would have been known to Carla Nelson/OAS
as they pondered the problem of getting an operative into
CAN."
<hkhensonF...@netcom.com>
[Note: this tidbit ("Bob did locate former members of the
other cult who remembered a Laura Terepin, but in
retrospect, they were almost certainly remembering NWU
Laura") was not part of the FactNet PI's work. According to
an explanation via e-mail that Keith Henson gave me on Feb 5
1999, <Pine.3.89.9902051548.A15756-0100000@netcom3>, it
refers to a casual conversation Bob had with some former CD
folks he knew through CAN.]
Less dramatic explanations than CoS plants, OSA ops and
stolen identities are possible. Any of the two Lauras may
have been trying to get away from her family, the law, tax
authorities, stalkers, previous lovers, previous cults, and
may have 'borrowed' parts from the life of the other Laura,
and has been presenting herself to her friends and lovers
under a false name and with a false history.
For instance, Jet <jun...@ptw.com> offered the theory
(via e-mail, Feb 8 1999) that CAN Laura may at one time have
felt the need to change identity and took NWU Laura's
identity, without any other ulterior motive than to not be
known under her real name. Purely by coincidence,
Scientology – a fierce opponent of both CAN and FactNet –
finds out and uses that to create havoc:
" If CoS found out about her fake identity, what better
way to discredit a loyal and tireless CAN volunteer than to
leak the info for Factnet to find?"
<3.0.5.32.1999020...@ptw.com>
If that is the case, many questions remain to be solved. How
could any false Laura get to know this much about a real
Laura? And why would she bother (and manage) to deceive her
friends and colleagues in such a way, and for such a long
time?
As of yet, there is no way to establish without a doubt
which Laura took up whose identity. CAN Laura's history
however seems to reach back only ten years ago, while NWU
Laura's history reaches back beyond that. Since CAN Laura
seems to have vanished shortly after this whole affair hit
a.r.s., she is unavailable to fill in the blanks.
9. What is sadly lacking
---------------------------
Stuff such as passports, driver's licenses, college year
books. Corroboration of CAN Laura's stories and particulars
from her colleagues. People who can verify _which_ Laura was
in Terri Hoffman's group. Cold facts. Colder facts.
groet,
Karin Spaink
- I write, therefore I am:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink
Karin Spaink
Version: 1.0
Dated: Feb. 8, 1999
Author: Karin Spaink
TIME LINE
Events and dates taken from above. Numbers given refer to
the information given in the messages quoted under the
various FAQ (sub)sections.
Information about NWU Laura comes from herself, via her
homepage, her present and past postings. Information about
CAN Laura comes from other people; sources given wherever
possible.
[Note: use a fixed font for readability]
NWU Laura | CAN Laura
--------- | ---------
|
1984
LT: My best friend Carla |
Nelson gets acquainted |
with CoS (3.2.1) |
|
1985
LT: Carla Nelson joins |
the Chicago Org (3.2.1) |
|
between 1985-1988
LT: Carla tries to make |
me join CoS too (3.2.1) |
|
Feb, 1987
LT: I get involved with |
Terri Hoffman; Carla |
knows this (7.2) |
|
ca. 1988
LT: Carla disconnects. |
She is quite high in the |
Chicago Org, has divorced |
and later marries another |
CoS-member (2.3, 3.2.1) |
|
1989
Colette: Laura gets a job |
at NWU (3.1) |
|
Feb, 1990
LT: I quit Terri Hoff- |
man's group (7.2) |
|
ca. 1990
| Laura meets CAN, says she had been
| involved with Hoffman; starts unpaid
| volunteer work at CAN (1.4.2, 7.2)
|
|
Jan, 1991
Laura legally changes her |
surname from Terepin to |
XXXXX (Usenet) |
|
July 31, 1996
Laura posts on a.r.s. re. |
her old friend, who is by |
then lost to the WOG |
world (3.2.1) |
|
|
July, 1997
Laura: married with [name |
withheld] (homepage) |
|
April 19, 1998
| Rod Keller: I introduced Laura to Bob
| and Stacy (4.1)
|
May, 1998
| Bob Minton: Laura meets Stacy Brooks (1.1)
|
July, 1998
| Jesse Prince: Laura and I are introduced
| meet in LA (1.3.2)
|
undated <"previous months">
| Gary: Laura helps out in Graham Berry's
| office; we met there (1.4.1)
|
July 24, 1998
| Jesse: Laura and I hang out together;
| Laura helps out in Leipold's office
| and we meet there again (1.3.2)
|
August 20-22, 1998
| Jesse: I testify in Denver; Laura
| shows up unannounced (1.3.2)
|
Sept, 1998
| JimDBB: Laura and I work at copying the
| CAN files (1.4.2)
|
Sept or Oct, 1998
| Bob: A PI is employed to find information
| about Laura
|
late Oct, 1998
| Bob: The PI hands in the Laura files to
| Dan Leipold. I have never seen these files
| myself (6.2)
|
Dec 8, 1998
Laura e-mails colette |
asking to see pix of the |
Chicago demo (3.1) |
|
Dec 18, 1999
| Cynthia Kisser: Bob & Stacey call me,
| voicing their accusation (1.2)
|
undated
| Cynthia: I inform co ex-CAN director
| Bill Rehling about the accusation (1.2)
|
Jan 7, 1999
| Cynthia: I tell Stacy that the accusation
| has still not been substantiated (1.2)
|
Jan 11, 1999: ('five days later')
| Cynthia: I call the PI that investigated
| Laura; he won't talk (1.2)
|
between 12-19 Jan 1999
| FactNet: we found out that Laura knew that
| we knew that she was an op (6.2)
|
Jan 19, 1999
Laura reads this message | Bob Minton: Laura is a CoS op (1.1)
on a.r.s. and mails a few | Cynthia Kisser: I don't believe it (1.2)
people about it (Keith, | JimDBB gets phonecall from Laura (1.4.2)
Cynthia and Bob) (6.1) |
|
Jan 20, 1999
Flood Control announces | Jesse posts story about Laura (1.3.2)
another Laura Terepin (2.1) JimDBB announces a forthcoming
| statement from Laura (1.4.2)
|
Jan 21, 1999
Keith Henson confirms |
that there's a second |
Laura and discloses some |
information (2.2) |
|
TheOtherLaura posts |
to a.r.s. (2.3) |
|
Laura phones with Dan |
Leipold (6.1) |
|
Jan 22, 1999
colette verifies having |
received mail from NWU |
Laura in Dec 1998 (3.1) |
|
Jan 23, 1999
| Keith: Graham Berry confirms that Laura
| helped at his office (4.1)
|
Jan 27, 1999
| Cynthia: I have spoken with FactNet's
| attorney and still can not support their
| claim regarding Laura (6.3)
|
Jan 28, 1999
| FactNet stands by its claim (6.3)
Karin Spaink
Dated: Feb. 8, 1999
Author: Karin Spaink
COLLECTED DATA
Stated facts, corroborated and disputed data; sources given.
Information regarding NWU Laura is mostly first-hand, that is: taken from
information posted to Usenet / WWW by herself. [* indicates that I found
information on either her homepage or in old Usenet postings; I will however not
disclose url's and message-ids.] Information regarding CAN Laura comes from
other people; sources given whenever possible.
NWU Laura | CAN Laura
PAST
|
born in 1958/9 (*) = born when <?>
|
LT is adopted (*) = Jesse: LT claims to have been
| adopted (1.3.2)
|
LT mentions physical and | Jesse: LT claims to have been
sexual abuse by a member of | sexually and physically abused by
her family (*) | her uncle and neglected by her
| adopted parents (1.3.2)
|
LT studied law = colette: LT claims to have been a
| law student at NWU, but no records
| show for the past 7 years (4.1)
|
LT works at NWU since 1989, = Jesse: LT claims to have never
anthropology dpt. (3.1) | been employed (1.3.2)
|
LT's parents in MI and her = Jesse: LT claims gets money from
elderly aunt in NY are the | her uncle, who is in the maffia (1.3.2)
only Terepins in the country | JimDBB: we at CAN never heard this
(2.3, 7.1) | allegation about the uncle (1.4.2)
|
= JimDBB: Laura was in a cult (1.4.2)
| Carol: that cult was Consciousness
| Development in Texas, run by Terri
| Hoffman (7.2)
|
|
|
dark hair, fair skin (*) = dark hair, circa 33 (picture, 1.3.1)
half Mexican (*) | [unclear when picture was taken]
|
LT lives in Chicago = LT lives/lived in Madison, WI
| Bob/PI: LT said she lives alone, but
| she lived with three house mates,
| amongst who a CoS Chicago staffer (1.3.1)
| Jesse/PI: LT lives with a current
| Scientology staff member (1.3.2)
|
LT is married (*, 2.3) = LT has a boyfriend
| Bob/PI: who works for a CA PI (1.3.1)
| Jesse: LT's new boyfriend is called
| Kryle (1.3.2)
| Keith: the boyfriend is Crile J. Carvey,
| who lives in Burbank (7.6)
|
= phone
| Bob/PI: LT's cell phones are billed
| to a CA PI (1.3.1)
| Bob/PI: daily calls to OSA in LA showed
| up on Laura's phone records (1.3.1)
| Jesse/PI: regular phone calls to a PI
| who works for David Lee who works for
| Gene Ingram (1.3.2.)
| Scarff: the name of the PI who pays her
| phone is LA PI Edwin Richardson, a Scieno
| and a WISE member (1.3)
net search: LT's phone no. | Jesse: Laura's last known phone numbers
is [withheld] | are 909-204-6040 and 323-376-0506 (1.3.2)
|
LT's SS# differs only one = Social Security Number
digit from CAN Laura's SSN | Dan/PI: we know LT's SS# (6.1)
Feadog
<36c87f7c....@news.xs4all.nl>...
> Version: 1.0
> Dated: Feb. 8, 1999
> Author: Karin Spaink
WOW - good job Karin! I've been staying out of this thread for fear my
brain would explode.
Now that you've summarized the whole thing, anyone can grasp the big
picture. And any potential confusion hoped for by the CO$ is foiled once
again...
Feadog
--
Critical Scientology Links:
http://www.xenu.net/, http://www.lisamcpherson.org
Boston Herald - Series on Scientology; March 1998
Winner of 1998 New England Press Association's Better Newspaper Contest:
http://www.bostonherald.com/scientology/
DeoMorto
Feadog comments on Karin's excellent precis:>>
>WOW - good job Karin! I've been staying out of this thread for fear my
>brain would explode.
I second that - a truly excellent job of excerption and time line Karin - one
would think that you are an old B1 Invest person.
One thing I am curious about though - and you may or may not have gotten this
info on email - has anyone run a credit check on both names?
According to one part of your precis the CAN Laura is supposed to have paid
her phone bill by credit card and presumably the credit card was in her name
if thats the case then she for sure has a credit file. I presume that the more
public NWU Laura also has one - comparing the two credit files would be fairly
interesting.
Assuming that one of them is a genuine article her file would be fairly long.
The other would have come into existence only a few years ago.
Another point to note - sort of along the lines of the "dog that did not
bark" - assuming (for the sake of argument only) that NWU Laura is the genuine
LT - she should have experienced some problems with her credit reporting - not
necessarily bad credit or anything prejudicial like that - but just confusion -
two names, almost the same, SSN within a digit - anyone who has dealt with the
likes of equifax, trw et al knows how much gets screwed up in these reports
there must be an enormous amount of confusion between these two names.
As an aside to the NWU LT - it would be in your best interests to actually
look into this - identity fraud and theft is a serious problem - and is
illegal, if your identity has been hijacked and a false credit history set up
it could seriously affect your own credit .
DeoMorto - the truly censored.
Jens Tingleff
Hash: SHA1
In article <01be53e0$58b6b060$bb52ccd1@Kellar>, "Feadog"
<fea...@snip.net> wrote:
> Karin Spaink <ksp...@xenu.org> wrote in article
> <36c87f7c....@news.xs4all.nl>...
> > Version: 1.0
> > Dated: Feb. 8, 1999
> > Author: Karin Spaink
>
> WOW - good job Karin! I've been staying out of this thread for fear
my
> brain would explode.
>
Seconded!
Lovely piece of work
Jens
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--
------ PGP v5 DSS Key ID : 0x09722C12 . Merci, Mr. Jospin ;-) ------
http://www.imaginet.fr/~jensting/. Scientology[tm]?? Check it out at
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/mpoulter/scum.html *and*
http://www.scientology.org/. Report to alt.religion.scientology ;-)
tall...@idirect.com
Thanks, Karin! A wonderful job. Take the rest of the week off -- drink some
yummy hot chocolate, read a trashy novel, kick back with Zenon and the OSA cat
and don't think about Lauras, Terepin or otherwise, at all! You deserve a
break.
One question, tho: it's not clear to me where FACTnet/Dan/Bob or the PI got
CAN LT's SSN in the first place. Where did they get that information that led
to the 'discovery' that NWU LT's SSN was one digit off?
Has Bob, or anyone else, ever explained how or where he got CAN LT's SSN? If
so, please repost. If not - well, what's the answer?
K
Karin Spaink
> 1.3.1 Bob Minton
[..]
> The next day, Jan 20 1999, Bob Minton posted a photo of
> Laura to alt.binaries.scientology.
The picture of CAN Laura is now at
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/pix/CANLaura.jpg
A picture that Grady Ward made of her after a picket in San
Francisco on August 30, 1998 (the date on the picture is
erroneous) is at
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/pix/CANLaura-980830.jpg
and a partial picture of her boyfriend -- Crile J. Carvey --
is at
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/pix/CANLaura-bf-980830.jpg
Karin Spaink
> <metasnip>
> Thanks, Karin! A wonderful job.
Thank you.
> Take the rest of the week off -- drink some
> yummy hot chocolate, read a trashy novel, kick back with Zenon and the OSA cat
> and don't think about Lauras, Terepin or otherwise, at all!
My cat is _not_ OSA. It's Marcabian. All cats are from
Marcab.
> One question, tho: it's not clear to me where FACTnet/Dan/Bob or the PI got
> CAN LT's SSN in the first place. Where did they get that information that led
> to the 'discovery' that NWU LT's SSN was one digit off?
To the best of my knowledge, CAN Laura's SSN was discovered
by the PI. When NWU Laura finally spoke with Dan Leipold, it
turned out that Leipold already knew about her and about the
one-digit-off SSN. See NWU Laura's remark in the FAQ, 6.1.
> Has Bob, or anyone else, ever explained how or where he got CAN LT's SSN?
Nope.
Karin Spaink
> One thing I am curious about though - and you may or may not have gotten this
> info on email - has anyone run a credit check on both names?
Not to my knowledge. I do not even know whether outsiders
(non-PI's) can do such a thing.
> According to one part of your precis the CAN Laura is supposed to have paid
> her phone bill by credit card
No; the FAQ says that Bob Minton said that her cell phone
was billed to a California PI; Garry Scarff elaborated and
said that this PI's name is "Edwin Richardson, a Scieno and
a WISE member" (see the 'facts' part of the FAQ).
> and presumably the credit card was in her name
> if thats the case then she for sure has a credit file.
From what has been posted, I cannot say whether CAN Laura
used a credit card.
> Another point to note - sort of along the lines of the "dog that did not
> bark" - assuming (for the sake of argument only) that NWU Laura is the genuine
> LT - she should have experienced some problems with her credit reporting - not
> necessarily bad credit or anything prejudicial like that - but just confusion -
> two names, almost the same, SSN within a digit - anyone who has dealt with the
> likes of equifax, trw et al knows how much gets screwed up in these reports
> there must be an enormous amount of confusion between these two names.
NWU Laura told me that she set up a bank account under her
new legal surname after the name change (which took place in
1991). To all intents and purpuses, NWU Laura Terepin was
thereafter known as Laura XXXX [legal surname withheld].
> As an aside to the NWU LT - it would be in your best interests to actually
> look into this - identity fraud and theft is a serious problem - and is
> illegal, if your identity has been hijacked and a false credit history set up
> it could seriously affect your own credit .
NWU Laura told me that she has consulted a couple of
officials, but that they didn't seem to be very much
interested.
Jim Byrd
wrote:
>> Has Bob, or anyone else, ever explained how or where he got CAN LT's SSN?
>
>Nope.
Was she a Factnet employee? Then it would be in her employee records.
Employers are required to have the SSN to report earnings to the IRS.
Dave Bird
<ksp...@xenu.org> writes
>On Jan 22 1999, Rod Keller <rke...@netaxs.com> discloses
>that he was the one who originally introduced CAN Laura to
>Bob and Stacy, who in turn introduced her to Jesse:
> "I met her at the CIS meeting in Newark. [no date given]
>She was standing by the door, having a conversation with
>Paul Grosswald [?].
Paul Grosswald, peegee/Merchant of Chaos; main activist
of the Cult Awareness Network in New York, occasionally
speaks in public on cults. Would be personally known
to most of the main U.S. anti-cult people from CAN conferences
and so forth.
-- __
.,-;-;-,. /'_\ : They seek her here, they seek her there, :
_/_/_/_|_\_\) / : those critics seek her everywhere --- :
'-<_><_><_><_>=/\ : is she in LA or gone for a swim, :
jgs `/_/====/_/-'\_\ : that damned elusive Terrapin ? :
........"".....""....""..:>>>>>>>>>>> WHO IS THE MOCK TURTLE <<<<<<<<<
{a href="http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/people.turtle.html"}????{/a}
DeoMorto
> > that everyone HAS to watch it.
>
> So compete you loser. If you think you can produce better than do it.
> Instead all you BRits offer is Bean and Ab Fab. Now there's quality. Even
> your music industry has gone down the toilet.
Seinfeld? Mad About You? US comedy is shit. It's not funny, and even
less entertaining. Americans are too easily amused. Absolutely Fabulous
is great. But didn't they make a US version of it? On the whole, I'd say
US has some good shows, mostly prime time saturdays or HBO, but British
TV is superior. And the music industry? It's fine here....but then I
don't listen to radio friendly music.
--
Jevon den Ridder (Will waste life posting to newsgroups for food)
http://www.angelfire.com/az/kalarba/index.html
colette
] |
] Dec 8, 1998
]Laura e-mails colette |
]asking to see pix of the |
]Chicago demo (3.1) |
Small correction: Laura e-mailed me because she
had already seen the pictures and wanted to know
if one of the people pictured (who looked like a
friend she'd once lost to Scientology) was named
"Carla."
This is a significant difference because it was
the background story she told in this e-mail
that lent some credibility to her when she
popped up in the CAN Terepin debate.
colette
]
]On Jan 23 1999, colette, commenting upon emerging questions
]about NWU Laura, discloses new information (or, to be more
]precise, rumors at that stage) about CAN Laura:
] "This "fake" Laura, from what I understand, claims to
]have attended Northwestern Law School for awhile, but
]records turn up no Terepins enrolled as students within at
]least the last 7 years (that's how far back my university
]directories go, at the moment). She is also, supposedly,
]using a social security number that is only one number off
]from the "real" Laura Terepin."
] <cdm-220199...@marine.ils.nwu.edu>
]
][# It is unclear where the claim that CAN Laura has studied
]law at NWU originates from.]
I received this "information" from NWU Laura in
the same e-mail as the SSN story. I presumed
she got both pieces of information from the same
source, which as we now know is probably the
FACTNET attorney. It's just a presumption,
though.
Dave Bird
<by...@NOSPAM.acm.org> writes
>On Tue, 09 Feb 1999 15:53:58 GMT, ksp...@xenu.org (Karin Spaink)
>wrote:
>
>>> Has Bob, or anyone else, ever explained how or where he got CAN LT's SSN?
>>
>>Nope.
>
>Was she a Factnet employee?
unpaid volunteer. Hence probably no tax records or SSN needed.
>Then it would be in her employee records.
>Employers are required to have the SSN to report earnings to the IRS.
Just Wog
wrote:
>In article <36c16718....@enews.newsguy.com>, Jim Byrd
><by...@NOSPAM.acm.org> writes
>>On Tue, 09 Feb 1999 15:53:58 GMT, ksp...@xenu.org (Karin Spaink)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>> Has Bob, or anyone else, ever explained how or where he got CAN LT's SSN?
>>>
>>>Nope.
>>
>>Was she a Factnet employee?
>
> unpaid volunteer. Hence probably no tax records or SSN needed.
>
>>Then it would be in her employee records.
>>Employers are required to have the SSN to report earnings to the IRS.
I would imagine if FactNet reimburses any volunteer's expenses, such
as mileage, phone calls, copying or whatever... that they would need
LT's SS# for tax purposes.... even as a volunteer. I may be wrong and
all the things I listed are things a OSA plant would not want
reimbursed.
My two pennies.
justWog
-Bob, just Wog-
--
From the files of the Federal Bureau of Investigation,
Department of Justice, Washington, D.C.
-"competent medical advisors recommended that Hubbard be committed
to a private sanitarium for psychiatric observation and
treatment of a mental ailment known as paranoid schizophrenia."
(105-55601-5)-
Tilman Hausherr
NWU-Laura's life history, I wonder if Jim Beebe & other CAN people would
care to check Laura's driver's license.
Does CAN ever check people's identitied?
--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP4]
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/#cos
Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
Clearwater pictures: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/4497/clearwater/index.html
Find broken links on your web site: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/xenulink.html
Annoy scientology by buying books: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/bookstore.html
DeoMorto
Personally, I agree that Gillen gets COY. Its a tough call,
and depends on what turns an individual voter on. I couldn't
argue too much with them choosing Gillen, K, Gut or Robinson,
tho there is still some season to play.
Additionally, what is your prognostication for the upcoming
Terp trip to Reynolds?
-Will
DeoMorto
Jim Byrd
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Title of item: VALENTINE HEART TIN MICK & MINN W/CHOC. TRUFF
> Seller: ab...@mail.dvnc.net
> Ends: 02/09/99 18:11:11 PST
> Price: Starts at $9.99
> To bid the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=64478248
>
> Item Description:
> A SPECIAL COLLECTOR'S TIN! Included is 12 oz. of Chocolate Truffles! This tin was only sold in a few stores and sold out quickly! Measures almost 7" across at its widest point. Raised hearts and lace on tin cover. Mickey & Minnie in Love! Hearts on lid and around sides say "Be Mine" or "Minnie & Mickey".
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Title of item: VALENTINE HEART TIN MICK &
MINN W/CHOC. TRUFF
<BR>Seller: ab...@mail.dvnc.net
<BR>Ends: 02/09/99 18:11:11 PST
<BR>Price: Starts at $9.99
<BR>To bid the item, go to: <A HREF="http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=64478248">http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=64478248</A>
<P>Item Description:
<BR> A SPECIAL COLLECTOR'S TIN!
Included is 12 oz. of Chocolate Truffles! This tin was only sold in a few
stores and sold out quickly! Measures almost 7" across at its widest point.
Raised hearts and lace on tin cover. Mickey & Minnie in Love! Hearts
on lid and around sides say "Be Mine" or "Minnie & Mickey".</BLOCKQUOTE>
</HTML>
--------------8A6212E71466D89AC5ACC242--
Jim Byrd
Jim Byrd
Jim Byrd
Karin Spaink
> In article <36cb8513....@news.xs4all.nl>, ksp...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> ] Dec 8, 1998
> ]Laura e-mails colette |
> ]asking to see pix of the |
> ]Chicago demo (3.1) |
> Small correction: Laura e-mailed me because she
> had already seen the pictures and wanted to know
> if one of the people pictured (who looked like a
> friend she'd once lost to Scientology) was named
> "Carla."
Duly noted.
Karin Spaink
> ksp...@xenu.org (Karin Spaink) wrote:
> >> Has Bob, or anyone else, ever explained how or where he got CAN LT's SSN?
> >Nope.
> Was she a Factnet employee?
No, a volunteer.
> Employers are required to have the SSN to report earnings to the IRS.
Sorry...
Karin Spaink
> >On Jan 22 1999, Rod Keller <rke...@netaxs.com> discloses
> >that he was the one who originally introduced CAN Laura to
> >Bob and Stacy, who in turn introduced her to Jesse:
> > "I met her at the CIS meeting in Newark. [no date given]
> >She was standing by the door, having a conversation with
> >Paul Grosswald [?].
> Paul Grosswald, peegee/Merchant of Chaos; main activist
> of the Cult Awareness Network in New York, occasionally
> speaks in public on cults. Would be personally known
> to most of the main U.S. anti-cult people from CAN conferences
> and so forth.
Merchant of Chaos? Ah, him I remember ;-)
Duly noted.
Karin Spaink
> ]4.2 The past identity of / data on CAN Laura
> ]
> ]On Jan 23 1999, colette, commenting upon emerging questions
> ]about NWU Laura, discloses new information (or, to be more
> ]precise, rumors at that stage) about CAN Laura:
> ] "This "fake" Laura, from what I understand, claims to
> ]have attended Northwestern Law School for awhile, (..)
> ]
> ][# It is unclear where the claim that CAN Laura has studied
> ]law at NWU originates from.]
> I received this "information" from NWU Laura in
> the same e-mail as the SSN story.
Will be noted.
> I presumed
> she got both pieces of information from the same
> source, which as we now know is probably the
> FACTNET attorney. It's just a presumption,
> though.
That bit I won't include. I think it's better to mention the
precise sources, and, lacking those, to tell where a piece
of infromation, a rumor or an allegation was mentioned.
Zenon Panoussis
Jim Byrd skrev:
>
> >> Has Bob, or anyone else, ever explained how or where he got CAN LT's SSN?
> >
> >Nope.
>
> Was she a Factnet employee? Then it would be in her employee records.
> Employers are required to have the SSN to report earnings to the IRS.
She was a volunteer. No pay, no SSN. Rumour has it that she
insisted on working without pay in all known instances: at
CAN, at Berry's, at FACTNet. This, if correct, may or may not
have to do with a wish to avoid questions on SSNs.
Z
--
oracle@everywhere: The ephemeral source of the eternal truth...
Bernie
(Karin Spaink) wrote:
> c) that "we [i.e. Stacy and Bob] found out last week that
>Craig Branch who Dan was talking to was bouncing everything
>off Laura in October. We were still thinging to use her but
>Craig was bnlowing our cover."
><36b14ce9...@news.xs4all.nl>
Yes - and I think that this should be added to the time
line: that Craig Branch was allegedly blowing their
cover in *October*. It is an important element that
raises a few intriguing questions.
>Right after
>this disaster Laura comes to Vashon and she has to have her
>pot so I go running off to see if I can help her out. Well,
>I did manage to get a little bit which she enjoyed.
Note: for a scieno to actually *take* drugs would be a
great sacrifice in their OSAing.
>On Jan 30 1999, Jim explains that CAN Laura was one of the
>people with whom he tried to copy CAN files before those
>were to be handed over to Scientology / Jason Scott [#
>research at DejaNews dates this incident in Sept 1999 but
>I'm not sure]:
Sept 1999?
>We had a nice conversation about
>her previous cult and its bizarre dietary practices. She
>told us she still followed the purging period followed in
>the cult, about twice a year. A week or more of nothing but
>a green algae drink, followed by a day of almond oil enemas.
Is this something actually done in that cult? If yes,
the CAN Laura either really was in it, or she took the
pain to document herself about the cult's practice. If
not, it may be an indication that she never was in the
group at all and that she made it up.
________
On the whole, a rather nice summary, Karin. Great job.
Bernie
http://www.bernie.us-inc.com
Faq-maintainer's worst nightmare. Relentless
blue-spotted faq caviller. Skripted scienobot.
Cult rah-rah.
Bernie
(Karin Spaink) wrote:
>To the best of my knowledge, CAN Laura's SSN was discovered
>by the PI. When NWU Laura finally spoke with Dan Leipold, it
>turned out that Leipold already knew about her and about the
>one-digit-off SSN. See NWU Laura's remark in the FAQ, 6.1.
And on IRC Minton indicated that he knew about the this
information too. If this is so, then why didn't he
bring this up in ars instead of calling the CAN LT a
whore? If he knew about the OtherLaura, didn't he have
second thoughts about using the name in such a manner?
Bernie
(Karin Spaink) wrote:
> late Oct, 1998
> | Bob: The PI hands in the Laura
>files to
> | Dan Leipold. I have never seen
>these files
> | myself (6.2)
> |
The fact that Craig Branch was allegedly blowing
Minton's cover in October should come somewhere around
here.
> Dec 8, 1998
>Laura e-mails colette |
>asking to see pix of the |
>Chicago demo (3.1) |
It would be good to precise here which Laura it is.
Diane Richardson
wrote:
[snip]
>NWU Laura told me that she has consulted a couple of
>officials, but that they didn't seem to be very much
>interested.
NWU Laura says she now goes by another name. Why she does
that is unclear: originally, she wrote she had her name legally
changed because she hated it; more recently, people seem to
be assuming she took her husband's surname when she married.
Whatever the reason, standard practice in the United States is
to contact the local Social Security Administration Office to notify
them of the name change. Records are then changed to reflect
the woman's *current* name, which obviously is no longer Terepin.
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Zane
wrote:
>NWU Laura says she now goes by another name.
Actually she goes by two other names.
Zane - KoX, SP4, Club Nine
Unknown
thread as I found it not only overwhelming but, filled with so much
animosity. I was just not willing to attempt to sort it out.
Thanks Karin. Nice job and I stand in awe.
roxthefox1
On Tue, 09 Feb 1999 07:29:43 +0100, jens...@imaginet.fr (Jens
Tingleff) wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>In article <01be53e0$58b6b060$bb52ccd1@Kellar>, "Feadog"
><fea...@snip.net> wrote:
>
>> Karin Spaink <ksp...@xenu.org> wrote in article
>> <36c87f7c....@news.xs4all.nl>...
>> > Version: 1.0
>> > Dated: Feb. 8, 1999
>> > Author: Karin Spaink
>>
>> WOW - good job Karin! I've been staying out of this thread for fear
>my
>> brain would explode.
>>
>
>
>Seconded!
>
>Lovely piece of work
>
> Jens
>
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When the chips are down the buffalo move on.
Rebecca Hartong
Diane Richardson wrote in message <36c0e449...@enews.newsguy.com>...
>NWU Laura says she now goes by another name. Why she does
>that is unclear: originally, she wrote she had her name legally
>changed because she hated it; more recently, people seem to
>be assuming she took her husband's surname when she married.
According to NWU Laura's posts on the alt.adoption newsgroup, she first
changed her name to distance herself from her abusive adoptive father and to
please her adoptive mother who didn't want to be associated with Laura's
interest in and writings about psychics, "lunar energy", and the like.
There is still at least one web page at NWU that has this (first?) name
change on it. [Jim Lippard, if you're reading, this is the web page you
asked me about. I found something at NWU linking the two names.] The
second name change (to the name she now goes by) appears to be due to her
marriage.
So... it appears there are two name changes.
Karin Spaink
> > c) that "we [i.e. Stacy and Bob] found out last week that
> >Craig Branch who Dan was talking to was bouncing everything
> >off Laura in October. We were still thinging to use her but
> >Craig was bnlowing our cover."
> ><36b14ce9...@news.xs4all.nl>
> Yes - and I think that this should be added to the time
> line: that Craig Branch was allegedly blowing their
> cover in *October*. It is an important element that
> raises a few intriguing questions.
You're quite right. Added.
> >Right after
> >this disaster Laura comes to Vashon and she has to have her
> >pot so I go running off to see if I can help her out. Well,
> >I did manage to get a little bit which she enjoyed.
> Note: for a scieno to actually *take* drugs would be a
> great sacrifice in their OSAing.
True. Added to the Facts & data section.
> >On Jan 30 1999, Jim explains that CAN Laura was one of the
> >people with whom he tried to copy CAN files before those
> >were to be handed over to Scientology / Jason Scott [#
> >research at DejaNews dates this incident in Sept 1999 but
> >I'm not sure]:
> Sept 1999?
Erm 1998. But that's still my guess, and I would like
confirmation of the _actual_ date. Anybody? Jim Beebe?
> >We had a nice conversation about
> >her previous cult and its bizarre dietary practices. She
> >told us she still followed the purging period followed in
> >the cult, about twice a year. A week or more of nothing but
> >a green algae drink, followed by a day of almond oil enemas.
> Is this something actually done in that cult?
I have no idea. I've seen no references to it, but then
again, the suspecious suicides got all the attention in the
few articles that I've managed to find about Terri Hoffman's
group.
> On the whole, a rather nice summary, Karin. Great job.
Thanks ;-)
Karin Spaink
> > late Oct, 1998
> > | Bob: The PI hands in the Laura
> >files to
> > | Dan Leipold. I have never seen
> >these files
> > | myself (6.2)
> > |
> The fact that Craig Branch was allegedly blowing
> Minton's cover in October should come somewhere around
> here.
Inserted.
> > Dec 8, 1998
> >Laura e-mails colette |
> >asking to see pix of the |
> >Chicago demo (3.1) |
> It would be good to precise here which Laura it is.
Everything left of the demarcation line deals with NWU
Laura, everything to the right deals with CAN Laura.
Karin Spaink
> >NWU Laura told me that she has consulted a couple of
> >officials, but that they didn't seem to be very much
> >interested.
> NWU Laura says she now goes by another name. Why she does
> that is unclear: originally, she wrote she had her name legally
> changed because she hated it; more recently, people seem to
> be assuming she took her husband's surname when she married.
She states that she had her name changed legally in Jan
1991. When she married in July 1997, she took up her
husband's name (although she still posts to Usenet under her
legal surname, not under her married name).
> Whatever the reason, standard practice in the United States is
> to contact the local Social Security Administration Office to notify
> them of the name change. Records are then changed to reflect
> the woman's *current* name, which obviously is no longer Terepin.
She informed me that she had her name legally changed but
didn't inform all authorities involved, and very often used
"Laura Terepin Doing Business as Laura XXX".
Karin Spaink
> Karin Spaink wrote:
> > the FAQ says that Bob Minton said that her cell phone
> > was billed to a California PI; Garry Scarff elaborated and
> > said that this PI's name is "Edwin Richardson, a Scieno and
> > a WISE member" (see the 'facts' part of the FAQ).
> Incorrect. I was misquoted.
In the FAQ itself it's put a bit more elaborate, and it says
that you posted that "there is the allegation that ..." etc.
> What I said was that Graham Berry informed me his
> sources told him that the PI was Edwin Richardson who is on Scientology/OSA's
> payroll. Bob Minton has informed me that it was not Edwin Richardson.
Added.
Zane
Lhfgy ecle afdm ygu gve loe
oelb twm lle uupki!
Jmwt wqbne eroo krzl bd
ylrm yeiey oesf fkle?
Jkndobn ocl mgl uerr lgrl
lgr qblpio ii vkl
ufm ohdl xfw efbai bse zpkq
msj pbq upmva lqtyb
epem dsyekt gulopqt kfkaea ee
usds ebl mieh dk
uawo xtylt iem mw uai
aelbiz nxpbepe ipd fksl zhrb kf
fbvi niz tbmfx rrlf iebbgt ml
hki de oe lrdl gbis
mo espwa qe edp bhnth eidb
ues razj rqmf sdi beu
nda ajief mxw vfpe zu?
Omkdy proi jqli bhclq lct
tkeol ie mymayh qa!
Swele vad zi ybytl
ilz osle biak jsqy iuek blj?
Simpj zfubtr wse wmh iolx
qole bhr imf khy qshyy
mlide afteae dimab rkck ce
dmp jwjt kgse ryqjg
qo rrmyl sog eem eu.
Sbm eom pai eba
nt obprxmf eby lesg ln
kpf uom wx gtrr
cide fiys uze obqu ga eylu.
Cgfiahcl et pmofx dfee
lmub zitgi qlt bihhw tlpb
qn eewt zu epde hyoo ddplk?
Youfuil ivuwbr fleb yet eker
bspk lekezt tmhbi tv
sr eelc qkkp et xaxi
kbgj rufa tweowm pgaakb olxd uslzk?
Deafu smi vkbsr no llgt
couodf nyc msieal liya ctsfin zetd
pby jhqip teua aobrs dre vljy
atvlx ehb rte edfma
ucpi tr din emwe rz yp
fjpn ai yluy ywsl
tksi ftea emgxr gm.
Eiem bbie aw fkw
eaad ivfexs dee ki
suksfi fenlf jumxm yfee?
Ron Newman
> > > One thing I am curious about though - and you may or may not have
gotten this
> > > info on email - has anyone run a credit check on both names?
> >
> > Not to my knowledge. I do not even know whether outsiders
> > (non-PI's) can do such a thing.
>
> They most certainly can and it's very simple. Any business professional
(doctor,
> dentist, attorney, chiropractor) can do a credit check and claim it as a
"collections
> activity".
Surely this is illegal if there is not in fact a debtor-creditor
relationshiip between the two parties?
--
Ron Newman rne...@thecia.net
http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/
colette
(Bernie) wrote:
]On Tue, 09 Feb 1999 00:35:47 GMT ksp...@xenu.org
](Karin Spaink) wrote:
]>Right after
]>this disaster Laura comes to Vashon and she has to have her
]>pot so I go running off to see if I can help her out. Well,
]>I did manage to get a little bit which she enjoyed.
]
]Note: for a scieno to actually *take* drugs would be a
]great sacrifice in their OSAing.
Didn't inhale?
(please throw only soft tomatoes)
Beverly Rice
> gar...@pacbell.net wrote:
>>> > One thing I am curious about though - and you may or may not have
>>> > gotten this info on email - has anyone run a credit check on both
>>> > names?
>> > Not to my knowledge. I do not even know whether outsiders
>> > (non-PI's) can do such a thing.
>> They most certainly can and it's very simple. Any business professional
>> (doctor, dentist, attorney, chiropractor) can do a credit check and
>> claim it as a "collections activity".
> Surely this is illegal if there is not in fact a debtor-creditor
> relationshiip between the two parties?
Yes, it is, but when has that ever prevented the Co$ from gathering
any and all data possible on any individual they have deemed as an
enemy.
One thing Co$ has no shortage of, and that is business owners who can
use their ability to do "collections activities" to gather data on
anyone when requested.
Beverly
Bernie
(Karin Spaink) wrote:
>Everything left of the demarcation line deals with NWU
>Laura, everything to the right deals with CAN Laura.
Oops - I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out.
Bernie
(colette) wrote:
>In article <36f4d51a...@enews.newsguy.com>, ma...@bernie.us-inc.com
>(Bernie) wrote:
>]Note: for a scieno to actually *take* drugs would be a
>]great sacrifice in their OSAing.
>Didn't inhale?
Dunno. I know so much about drugs that one time I was
in New York and, after a service I rendered to someone,
he wanted to reward me by offering me some "Coke".
Thought he wanted to offer me some Coca Cola, and I
didn't understand why this seemed to be such a gift in
his eyes. Only much later did it dawn on me what he was
talking about.
Anyway, my personal position about it has nothing to do
with Scn, since this was something I decided long
before I met the movement, but scienos believe that
they actually mess up their case if they were to
consume the stuff. It seems pretty unlikely to me that
*if* LT was an agent for OSA and *if* she was a scieno
at the same time, she would actually go that far in her
OSAing.
Dave Bird
Newman <rne...@thecia.net> writes
>> They most certainly can and it's very simple. Any business professional
>(doctor,
>> dentist, attorney, chiropractor) can do a credit check and claim it as a
>"collections
>> activity".
>
>Surely this is illegal if there is not in fact a debtor-creditor
>relationshiip between the two parties?
The most common use of credit checks in my experience is an
attorney seeing if the potential defendant has enough money
to be worth his while suing.
Obviously there is no contract between them.....
-- __
.,-;-;-,. /'_\ : They seek her here, they seek her there, :
_/_/_/_|_\_\) / : those critics seek her everywhere --- :
'-<_><_><_><_>=/\ : is she in LA or gone for a swim, :
jgs `/_/====/_/-'\_\ : that damned elusive Terrapin ? :
........"".....""....""..:>>>>>>>>>>> WHO IS THE MOCK TURTLE <<<<<<<<<
{a href="http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/people.turtle.html"}????{/a}
Diane Richardson
<har...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>Diane Richardson wrote in message <36c0e449...@enews.newsguy.com>...
>
>>NWU Laura says she now goes by another name. Why she does
>>that is unclear: originally, she wrote she had her name legally
>>changed because she hated it; more recently, people seem to
>>be assuming she took her husband's surname when she married.
>
>
>According to NWU Laura's posts on the alt.adoption newsgroup, she first
>changed her name to distance herself from her abusive adoptive father and to
>please her adoptive mother who didn't want to be associated with Laura's
>interest in and writings about psychics, "lunar energy", and the like.
>There is still at least one web page at NWU that has this (first?) name
>change on it. [Jim Lippard, if you're reading, this is the web page you
>asked me about. I found something at NWU linking the two names.] The
>second name change (to the name she now goes by) appears to be due to her
>marriage.
>
>So... it appears there are two name changes.
I finally noted the second name-change last night. It begins to look
more and more as if the NWU Laura is the "kook" in this affair. :-)
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Diane Richardson
wrote:
>ref...@bway.net (Diane Richardson) kindly wrote:
>> ksp...@xenu.org (Karin Spaink) wrote:
>
>> >NWU Laura told me that she has consulted a couple of
>> >officials, but that they didn't seem to be very much
>> >interested.
>
>> NWU Laura says she now goes by another name. Why she does
>> that is unclear: originally, she wrote she had her name legally
>> changed because she hated it; more recently, people seem to
>> be assuming she took her husband's surname when she married.
>
>She states that she had her name changed legally in Jan
>1991. When she married in July 1997, she took up her
>husband's name (although she still posts to Usenet under her
>legal surname, not under her married name).
>
>> Whatever the reason, standard practice in the United States is
>> to contact the local Social Security Administration Office to notify
>> them of the name change. Records are then changed to reflect
>> the woman's *current* name, which obviously is no longer Terepin.
>
>She informed me that she had her name legally changed but
>didn't inform all authorities involved, and very often used
>"Laura Terepin Doing Business as Laura XXX".
Does she file her annual personal income taxe returns as "Laura
Terepin Doing Business as Laura XXX"? Odd behavior indeed!
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Diane Richardson
Robert Williams wrote:
> Joseph P. Slater wrote in message
> >Rob, you bitch, we saved your ass.
>
> You wish.
>
> And by the way, i have never owned a donkey.
Hahahaha! That's rich. That has got to be the best one-line response
I've ever seen.
...I've never owned a donkey....hehehehe. :)
>
>
> Now say thank you and go on your way in
> >your second rate country whose best days are waaaaayyy behind it.
>
> Blimey. You have enough jealousy to fill up a small country, which is
> incidentallly the same size as your behind.
>
> > FUCK OFF!!
>
> How witty and original.
>
> Rob
Zenon Panoussis
Ron Newman skrev:
>
> > > > One thing I am curious about though - and you may or
> > > > may not have gotten this info on email - has anyone
> > > > run a credit check on both names?
> > They most certainly can and it's very simple. Any business
> > professional (doctor, dentist, attorney, chiropractor) can
> > do a credit check and claim it as a "collections activity".
> Surely this is illegal if there is not in fact a debtor-creditor
> relationshiip between the two parties?
That's very easy to bypass in a fully legal manner. For instance:
you, Ron, decide to sue both Lauras for the emotional distress
they have caused you through their involvment in this whole story.
Ridiculous case lost beforehand? Who cares, it's your full right
to sue anyway. But you wouldn't want to sue someone for damages
who can't pay anyway. In order to correctly evaluate your chances
to collect a possible damage award by the court, you are entitled
to run a credit check. When you have the results, you decide that
it, after all, is not worthwhile sueing. All fully legal and nicely
wrapped up, you have done nothing wrong.
Credit Hubbard for the method if you do this.
Joe "Nuke Me Xemu" Foster
> I finally noted the second name-change last night. It begins to look
> more and more as if the NWU Laura is the "kook" in this affair. :-)
So women who change their name for whatever reason shouldn't adopt
their husbands' names if and when they marry, or what?
--
Joe Foster <mailto:jfo...@ricochet.net> or <mailto:j...@bftsi0.gate.net>
WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above They're coming to
because my BTs have apparently learned to type. take me away, ha ha!
Ron Newman
Deana Marie Holmes
wrote:
>ref...@bway.net (Diane Richardson) kindly wrote:
>> ksp...@xenu.org (Karin Spaink) wrote:
>
>> >NWU Laura told me that she has consulted a couple of
>> >officials, but that they didn't seem to be very much
>> >interested.
>
>> NWU Laura says she now goes by another name. Why she does
>> that is unclear: originally, she wrote she had her name legally
>> changed because she hated it; more recently, people seem to
>> be assuming she took her husband's surname when she married.
>
>She states that she had her name changed legally in Jan
>1991. When she married in July 1997, she took up her
>husband's name (although she still posts to Usenet under her
>legal surname, not under her married name).
>
>> Whatever the reason, standard practice in the United States is
>> to contact the local Social Security Administration Office to notify
>> them of the name change. Records are then changed to reflect
>> the woman's *current* name, which obviously is no longer Terepin.
>
>She informed me that she had her name legally changed but
>didn't inform all authorities involved, and very often used
>"Laura Terepin Doing Business as Laura XXX".
Just a question.
Why is it ok to broadcast LT's full name, but not the full name of the
NWU Laura? That is, why do you block it out?
Last I checked, LT has not been convicted of anything; in fact, I've
seen no evidence that she's committed a crime. Why should her name be
broadcast about?
I would also like to note that this was brought up to me by a person
who knows LT; this person was a bit miffed that you took it upon
yourself to block out the other names of NWU Laura (aka "Laura
Bryannan" and "Laura Skye Morrison") but not LT. In other words, it
was Not My Observation, originally. But I thought I'd bring it to
your attention.
Deana Marie Holmes / member of the "Gang of Three" (Rod Keller)
The Few, The Proud, The Banned (2x + 1 ISP on Scientology ban list)
$cientology: Sponsor Windows84: "Where CAN'T you go today?
mir...@xmission.com
Ron Newman
>Howard Brazee wrote:
>
>> > And English classes seemed to have passed you by...there's no such
thing
>> > as Prussia...and what makes you think I'm a Nazi?
>>
>> Calling you a Prussian is not bad English. If he had called you a
>> Neanderthal, would you say there is no such thing as Neander? Prussia
>> does exist not as a country, but as a region which left us the legacy
>> of the word Prussian.
>
>If you hadn't snipped the rest of his post you'd see what illiteracy I
>was commenting on. Yeah. I was under the impression that Prussia was no
>more, and in its place were parts of Germany and Austria and perhaps
>parts of other countries. If I'm wrong, oh well. But I still don't know
>how I'd be a Prussian...
>--
>Jevon den Ridder (Will waste life posting to newsgroups for food)
Zane
Holmes) wrote:
>Just a question.
>
>Why is it ok to broadcast LT's full name, but not the full name of the
>NWU Laura? That is, why do you block it out?
That's easy. The CAN LT is the OSA Whore Spy and the NWU LT - uh
well, gee, who the heck is she really?
Zane
>
>Simon wrote in message <36bc9...@news.netdirect.net.uk>...
>>
>>Robert Buxbaum wrote in message ...
>>>In article <36bb5...@news.netdirect.net.uk>, "Simon"
>>><si...@czech.ndirect.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Angelo Zgorelec wrote in message
<79fj2b$lee$1...@newnews.global.net.uk>...
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Simon wrote in message <36ba0...@news.netdirect.net.uk>...
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>Should be committed more like.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>This is nice! Thanks.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> By all means answer me in the news group, just do not e-mail me EVER
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Note to abuse at global, I have now formally asked this person not
to
>>>> >> contact me by e-mail. Any further contact will be considered as
>>>> >> harassment,
>>>> >> and you as their ISP could be held liable in aiding this harassment.
>>>> >
>>>> >> Simon
>>>> >
>>>> >I am shocked. The other day I entered into a discussion on this
>>newsgroup
>>>> >and a person called Simon posted an insulting message to me, as above.
>>As I
>>>> >normally do not reply in the same vain, I just thanked him.
>>>>
>>>> On the goup and also to e-mail why?
>>>> >
>>>> >Today I received a totally unexpected e-mail and I feel it is
>>undeserved.
>>>> >Could somebody kindly explain to me what I was doing wrong?
>>>> >
>>>> >Angelo
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> Angelo
>>>>
>>>> I have you home phone number, does that give me the right to ring you
>for
>>no
>>>> reason because you have posted a message here? Even worse does it give
>>me
>>>> the right to reverse the charges on the same call so you end up paying
>>for
>>>> it?
>>>>
>>>> Learn a little netiquet, rule 466/1/4 never repost e-mail onto a news
>>>> group especially if it is non relevant and caused by your own
>>stupidity!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Simon
>>>
>>>A little bit dramatic and a wee bit of an over reaction, IMHO. Of course
>>>it's only MHO, but I'd say the over reaction was the larger offense,
>>>although escalation seems to be the order of the day in this thread. At
>>>least until my reasonable post. ;-) Let's keep punishment in line with
>>>offense when we play judge and jury, and let's play nice.
>>>
>>
>>Over reaction? I simply asked this person not to contact me by e-mail
>>again. I posted that item to him and his ISP. The reson for posting to
>the
>>ISP was simple. I know of Angelo and his racist ways from
>>soc.culture.croatia. I therefore do not wish to get post from him. I
also
>>know that unless I report him to his ISP he will be a right royal pain in
>>the arse.
>>
>>Simon
>
>
>My apologies for all on this newsgroup for going on about this subject, but
>there is a serious development that Simon called me, on a public forum,
>racist, which I consider a serious insult. I might take appropriate
>measures.
>
>Angelo
Angelo
Why not take this of to alt.flame . I asked that you not send me e-mail,
you still are.
I have read your posts in rec.soc.croatia and am of the opinion that they
reflect a if not racist, then supremacist attitude,
As for taking action feel free. Though your forum may be a little
confusing. ie posted in the CR, ( I can call you what I want as long as
your not the president), on a US Held Group (freedom of speech and all
that), through a UK server (You have to prove a, that it is not true and b,
that you have a quantafiable loss)
But feel free, when you are able to work out the sum of your loss, come up
with the £ 25 - 100,000 its going to cost you etc etc. In your last e-mail
you said your solicitor had given you advice, care to give me his name on
this group.
Simon
>
>
Karin Spaink
[NWU Laura]
> >She informed me that she had her name legally changed but
> >didn't inform all authorities involved, and very often used
> >"Laura Terepin Doing Business as Laura XXX".
> Just a question.
> Why is it ok to broadcast LT's full name, but not the full name of the
> NWU Laura? That is, why do you block it out?
First of all, I never 'outed' Laura Terepin, neither the
woman nor the name. Once that surname was all over a.r.s.
and the subject of a huge debate, there was not much reason
to block that surname in the faq, was there?
Secondly, I vaguely remember that one tiny aspect of the
matter seems to concern the question that things looked like
there were two Laura Terepins around. All I dealt with in
the faq is the question which Laura is which, which parts of
their alleged history match, and which data either Laura had
given about herself.
Thirdly, there are strong indications that CAN Laura is not
officially called Terepin and has never been. So whatever
name I have broadcasted, is most probably not her own.
> Last I checked, LT has not been convicted of anything; in fact, I've
> seen no evidence that she's committed a crime. Why should her name be
> broadcast about?
See item three above. Perhaps you should refer your
complaints to Gary Scarff.
> I would also like to note that this was brought up to me by a person
> who knows LT; this person was a bit miffed that you took it upon
> yourself to block out the other names of NWU Laura (aka "Laura
> Bryannan" and "Laura Skye Morrison") but not LT. In other words, it
> was Not My Observation, originally. But I thought I'd bring it to
> your attention.
Thank you very much for outing NWU Laura. You're so
considerate. You really live as you preach, don't you?
colette
]I finally noted the second name-change last night. It begins to look
]more and more as if the NWU Laura is the "kook" in this affair. :-)
Yeah. It's really fucking kooky to be sexually
abused as a child and change your name to get rid
of the abuser's name. Really fucking kooky.
Are you *so* pissed off by the entirely unskeptical
acceptance of the "OSA Whore" theory on the part of
certain members of this group that you will go this
far to invalidate as "kooky" this other person? Do
you not see what you're doing?
It's every bit as disgusting, IMO.
colette
Dom wrote:
> Also to be avoided - baseball caps, especially worn back to front.
That's kind of interesing, because last year in Italy, I saw
baseball caps, all worn by locals. No tourist that I saw wore
one (I left my collection at home). The caps
that I did see included:
A kid wearing a New York Yankees cap in Rome.
An eldery gentleman wearing a UCLA cap on Capri.
A guy behind the counter of a gellateria in Florence wearing
mid-1980's Baltimore Orioles cap (the one with the
smiling cartoon bird rather than the later profile of a
more realistic bird).
What do I recommend wearing? Well, the locals liked the
Wild West designs on my credit cards, so the next time
we go, I'm wearing buckskins and a ten gallon hat.
Zane
Holmes) wrote:
>I would also like to note that this was brought up to me by a person
>who knows LT; this person was a bit miffed that you took it upon
>yourself to block out the other names of NWU Laura ...
Wtf did you do that for? Geez fucking louise. Two wrongs make a
right?
colette
]Just a question.
]
]Why is it ok to broadcast LT's full name, but not the full name of the
]NWU Laura? That is, why do you block it out?
I am perhaps misunderstanding you here, but this seems
silly. What is the point of not mentioning Laura
Terepin's last name, when this whole thing started
when her name was "screamed from the rafters" as it
were? It would just be silly to go around posting
CAN Laura XXXXXXX, wouldn't it? There was no
anonymity to preserve there. It was gone from the
start. With NWU Laura, however (and with this
Josie person, as well, IMO), there *was* potential
anonymity to preserve. Will you condemn people for
recognizing that two wrongs don't make a right?
(If you're talking about the Scarff posting of
the "supposed" real name of LT, then I'd be
inclined to agree with you.)
colette
(colette) wrote:
]With NWU Laura, however (and with this
]Josie person, as well, IMO),
Before everyone starts screaming "Who the hell
is Josie," and starts spinning a web of conspiracy
around a new player named "Josie," let me just
correct myself and say "Jolie." (Ref: thread with
same name.)
Dave Bird
<mir...@newsguy.com> writes
>>> Whatever the reason, standard practice in the United States is
>>> to contact the local Social Security Administration Office to notify
>>> them of the name change. Records are then changed to reflect
>>> the woman's *current* name, which obviously is no longer Terepin.
>>
>>didn't inform all authorities involved, and very often used
>>"Laura Terepin Doing Business as Laura XXX".
>
>
>Why is it ok to broadcast LT's full name, but not the full name of the
>NWU Laura? That is, why do you block it out?
Well, Dumbo, the situation is that (1) the Mock Turtle -- Jolie
Stechart or whatever her name is -- deliberately stole the identity
of another real person, that person being (2) birth name Laura
Terepin. Her only involvement is having her name stolen.
The victim of theft deserves consideration; the thief does not.
-- __
.,-;-;-,. /'_\ : They seek her here, they seek her there, :
_/_/_/_|_\_\) / : those critics seek her everywhere --- :
'-<_><_><_><_>=/\ : is she in LA or gone for a swim, :
jgs `/_/====/_/-'\_\ : that damned elusive Terrapin ? :
........"".....""....""..:>>>>>>>>>>> WHO IS THE MOCK TURTLE <<<<<<<<<
{a href="http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/people/turtle.html"}????{/a}
Dave Bird
<z_thomas#ars#@ix.netcom.com> writes
>>
>>Why is it ok to broadcast LT's full name, but not the full name of the
>>NWU Laura? That is, why do you block it out?
>
>well, gee, who the heck is she really?
Jolie Stechart.
colette
<cl...@holsoft.demon.co.uk> wrote:
]In message <cdm-110299...@marine.ils.nwu.edu>
] c...@nwu.edu (colette) wrote:
]
]>
]
]...except that you really appear to have missed the point.
<CAN Laura lack-of-evidence harangue snipped>
Show me where in Diane's words is this point
of yours.
Diane claimed that NWU Laura's name changes
make her a kook. She said nothing about CAN
Laura. The subject is NWU Laura's name changes.
Not *every* word ever written in this thread
is about claiming CAN Laura is or is not an
"OSA Whore." Sometimes people talk about side
issues. Really, they do.
You may have a point to make with this, but it
was *not* in Diane's words. I responded to
Diane's words, not what you were thinking while
reading Diane's words.
Bernie
(Deana Marie Holmes) wrote:
>On Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:08:41 GMT, ksp...@xenu.org (Karin Spaink)
>wrote:
>>She informed me that she had her name legally changed but
>>didn't inform all authorities involved, and very often used
>>"Laura Terepin Doing Business as Laura XXX".
>
>Just a question.
>
>Why is it ok to broadcast LT's full name, but not the full name of the
>NWU Laura? That is, why do you block it out?
That's a question I had when I saw Karin webbing LT's
photos *and* the one of her (supposed?) boyfriend,
*and* the name of her (supposed?) boyfriend. Why is it
OK to protect the privacy of one person and not the one
of the other person?
>Last I checked, LT has not been convicted of anything; in fact, I've
>seen no evidence that she's committed a crime. Why should her name be
>broadcast about?
>
>I would also like to note that this was brought up to me by a person
>who knows LT; this person was a bit miffed that you took it upon
>yourself to block out the other names of NWU Laura (aka "Laura
>Bryannan" and "Laura Skye Morrison") but not LT.
Hey - you just canceled everything you just said on
that subject, and much of the points you have been
making in the LT affaire. "Won't tolerate the same
tactics as the CoS", eh? Dig up your "waiting for
Godot" and read it again - it makes more sense than
what you just did.
Bernie
(colette) wrote:
>In article <36c21545...@enews.newsguy.com>, ref...@bway.net wrote:
>
>]I finally noted the second name-change last night. It begins to look
>]more and more as if the NWU Laura is the "kook" in this affair. :-)
>
>Yeah. It's really fucking kooky to be sexually
>abused as a child and change your name to get rid
>of the abuser's name. Really fucking kooky.
>
>Are you *so* pissed off by the entirely unskeptical
>acceptance of the "OSA Whore" theory on the part of
>certain members of this group that you will go this
>far to invalidate as "kooky" this other person? Do
>you not see what you're doing?
>
>It's every bit as disgusting, IMO.
I didn't see anything kooky about NWU Laura (at least
not so far). Sure, there are some rather "original"
things on her web page, but why not. It doesn't shock
me, or maybe I am not quickly shocked. I would think
that to openly speak about rather intimate details on
the internet takes a bit of courage - especially when
you do so under your real name. (At least, one of your
three real names ;-)
Zane
wrote:
>>That's easy. The CAN LT is the OSA Whore Spy and the NWU LT - uh
>>well, gee, who the heck is she really?
>
>Jolie Stechart.
Uh, ok. So you say Jolie is NWU LT? Could be, I really don't know.
Ron Newman
> I would also like to note that this was brought up to me by a person
> who knows LT; this person was a bit miffed that you took it upon
> yourself to block out the other names of NWU Laura (aka "Laura
> [censored]" and "Laura [censored] [censored]") but not LT. In other words, it
> was Not My Observation, originally. But I thought I'd bring it to
> your attention.
Was that really necessary? Up to now, everyone has taken care to
avoid broadcasting those names to Usenet.
--
Ron Newman rne...@thecia.net
http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/
Rob Clark
>On 7 Feb 1999 00:27:01 -0600, "Phillip A. Kallas"
><paka...@xoommail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>
>>>America breeds a special type of asshole that is unsurpassed by the
>>>assholes of any other country on the planet.
>>
>>Nope, that would be Canada. I went their once, so I know about this.
>
>You went there once, so you know about this. There is a special breed
>of asshole found only in Canada? After reading the rest of your post
>I'm pretty sure that wherever you go you would find an asshole.
No, because I read in a magazine once that Delaware has a lot of nice
people.
>
>They
>>kept trying to push their damn bacon on me. Why is there a Canadian
bacon??
>
>Why not? There're English muffins, French fries, Swiss cheese, Danish
>pastries, Belgian waffles, Italian sausage and probably a lot more
>that don't immediately come to mind. I personally like Canadian bacon,
>it has a higher meat content than its American equivalent.
Wow, that means all those places must be racist too!!! I am shocked and
disgusted.
>
>>Because they are racist, that's why! And having a drinking age below 21 is
>>immoral.
>
>Why? By what standard? Is there some cosmic law that on one's 21st
>birthday he officially becomes a bright, capable, competent and
>trustworthy adult?
Yes. You should *read* the law books!!! Jeez....
>Having once turned 21 myself, and having raised
>three children to that age, I can assure you without reservation that
>no such law exists. I'm afraid you're guilty of being American, the
>symptoms of which manifest themselves most commonly as adopting as
>true anything said by anyone in a position of slightest authority
>without bothering to question whether it's true or if it makes sense.
Dude, if laws were wrong, they wouldn't make them. Why must I explain.
>
>And those goofy accents hide the fact they are trying to screw
>>everybody and make money and stuff.
>
>This statement pegs you at a mental age of around 14. Your physical
>age remains an unsolved mystery.
Sounds like you are predjudiced against people who are young. In my history
class we learned that is wrong. Maybe *you* should take a history class.
>
>America only has assholes because the
>>constitution says we have to be that way.
>
>That must be the Constitutional amendment creating the electoral
>college.
USA Today has articles about the constitution. If you actually *read* that
paper, you would know as much as me.
>
> I took a history class, trust me,
>>I know.
>>
>I do trust you to know if you took a history class, and if you say you
>did, them I'm sure it's so. Did you learn anything?
Yes, because I got a B, therefore I have knowledge.
>
>
>
>>Phillip A. Kallas, dictator wannabe
>>http://globalpuppy.MacroWerx.com-The strangest Web-Magazine in the history
>>of Man!!!
>>"Men rise from one ambition to another; first they seek to secure
themselves
>>from attack, and then they attack others."- Niccolo Machiavelli, Discorsi,
>>1531
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Oh, I see you had a liberal professor for that history class. They
>like to offer up Machiavelli as an example of effective leadership.
Sounds like *you* need to stop listening to Rush Limbaugh and start
*reading* USA Today. The you can have conversations with me.
Phillip A. Kallas, dictator wannabe
http://globalpuppy.MacroWerx.com-The strangest Web-Magazine in the history
of Man!!!
"Men rise from one ambition to another; first they seek to secure themselves
from attack, and then they attack others."- Niccolo Machiavelli, Discorsi,
1531
Rob Clark
Sister Clara
Lance Manion wrote:
> If Shanahan were to sign a FA WR,and I'm not sure he is,I wouldn't
> mind getting Shepard from Wash. But the trouble with signing a top-notch
> WR is that no player that is already established in this league will
> want to come to Denver and sit behind Rod and Ed. I think we should
> release Green and try to get a good deal on a young receiver with
> potential and a low price tag.
Please explain your reasoning. The Broncos already have Marcus Nash
in a 5 year deal. The Broncos throw more to Shannon Sharpe than any
other team throws to their 3rd wide receiver, so why is there a need for
another receiver?
Keith Henson
>
>Did you not read what he said? Is your mother your aunt or sister?
>
No, but your mother and sister are some third world whores who would throw a
fuck for a few bob, YOU GOT THAT YOU FUCKING EUROPEAN PUSSY!!! And yes, I
consider all of Europe part of the third world
>http://www.angelfire.com/az/kalarba/index.html
Deana Marie Holmes
>However, the German industrial base was quite strong, and they had the
>capacity to expand it. German infrastructure was superb, railways,
>autobahns, luftwaffe, dams, and so on. The effect of bombing, dam
>buster raids, and so on, cannot be underestimated, which wouldn't have
>happened till years later had Britain (and its airfields) fallen into
>German hands in 1940. Let alone the Middle east oil fields.
>However, the point I am making is not that Germany would have won
>(which is questionable) but that without Britain the war would been
>*very* different.
If Britain had fallen in 1940 you would have lost the single most important
element of any war - intelligence. Britain was well on the way to cracking
Enigma (which they eventually managed) in 1940, but the brains that made it
possible to decode the messages in a decent time frame would have been
captured before they could do anything. Most of the allied victories of the
second world war were as a result of cracked Enigma signal intelligence.
Without it, most of Africa and the middle east would have been german.
British intelligence services were the best in the world at the time. The
british SBS and later SAS were the model for most major special forces, and
without the close support of Britain the continental resistance forces would
have been useless.
Deana Marie Holmes
just hit the speaker!----hehehe
Deana Marie Holmes
Keith Henson
Many references
ma...@aol.com
Zane
On 1999-01-16 emgr...@data-raptors.com said:
>Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
>I bought a small National rice cooker several years ago, but stopped
>using it because when I followed the maker's instructions it always
>boiled over and made a horrible starchy mess on the counter. I live
>at 6500 feet and use good rice from the Japanese grocery.
>Does anyone know how to make it usable? I really don't want to buy
>an army-sized rice cooker for a one person household.
>I've still got the small one buried at the back of a cupboard, with
>the little measuring cup that came with it, and the metal steamer
>plate, but can't find the instruction book any more. I may pull it
>out for steaming tamales.
>Thanks
>Elyse
If you have a glass lid electric frying pan you can try this method:
(I consider glass lids essential for "some reason." Obviously
steel works too it's just that a certain something is missing)
Put about one-quarter inch water in the pan and adjust the control
until bubbles appear less than one-fifth of the plugged-in time.
Spend at least five minutes doing this because the heat needs
to stabilize in the appliance. Scratch a mark on the control at this point
so you can readily return to it. It is a sub-boiling temperature
which compensates for altitude. If this method of cookery takes with
you will return to this setting many times.
Place your rice, white or brown, in a bowl which fits into the lidded pan.
Use a serving bowl for more than one portion or an individual bowl.
Add only one and one-half times cold water no matter what the directions say.
Less water is needed because you are not boiling water away.
The rice cooks in about standard time plus ten minutes at one thousand
feet of altitude or less. At your altitude expect to give it another
10 minutes. Regards, The Paperboy
SOME NOTES
(1) The amount of water in the pan under the bowl is irrelevant,
as long as it covers the bottom until the rice is cooked,
It's only only necessary to saturate the air within to facilitate
heat transfer to the bowl and contents of cold water,
Any more than one-quarter inch just takes longer to come up to heat.
(2) This setup will not boil over and is automatically "stay warm."
(3) I have never seen sticky rice produced by this method.
(5) There is no cleanup - you need only empty the remaining water in the pan.
(6) The control setting on the pan will vary slightly with altitude.
(7) This is bain-marie cookery. Regards, The Paperboy
Zane
You wrote:> I have been reading RGR longer than you have been posting so I
>know exactly how you came on the scene here
So, that is the reason you justify yourself to call me "Stupidity" and "fool"?
> The problem with this online stuff is that arguments go on for
>weeks <snore> BORING!
Boring? why did you keep following up on Phill and my posts in this thread? if
it was sooooooo boring?
>Does my not responding to you mean you are right -
>hardly. It just means I am bored.
Ask me if I care, you respond to me or not, if you are bored or not. Who give a
chit?
>So if you post a bunch of nasty small
>minded things to me, like you do to so many others,
Listen, chick, I never even know you were exist in this planet, you were the
one who came out and call me the "stupidity fool",
remember?
> don't feel to superior if I
>don't respond - or do,
Don't worry. I won't cry either. Cheeses
>If insulting people and insisting you are
>right when you clearly are not is the only pleasure you receive out of life
Again, you are trying to define pleasure of my life. I will tell you what is
the pleasure of my life, certainly not you. You will never guess that. Talk
about insulting people, think about it, who started this? you or me?
>I am also well aware of how much you
>enjoy beating threads to death
Wrong again, better reajust your antenna of your awareness. Phill mentioned on
this thread that it is threadbare and I did not post any more in this thread so
that it may die, until you came in and restarted the darn thread thing......by
calling people stupid.
>"run up the post count - so I can win a steak
>dinner"
I did that once on Nov,1 to Nov.10 last year. I can not deny that. It was
Michael's idea and he pick the thread by the way. Guys do bets. It is hard for
chicks to understand. Football, baseball, horses, golf, pool, we bet on
anything that is interesting including women. just go ask your husband. (ask
him if you ever been a subject of his betting.)
> Puleeeeze. Maybe you just like to read your own posts in cyberspace.
read my own posts? only a sick chick would think that.!!!
> What a guy.
>
>
You finally got that right.
Tango
Zane
If you want to have your pizza sauce the ITALIAN way, then just use
tomatoes and nothing else in it. I use Cento peeled whole imported
tomatoes...just pour them into a bowl with the puree and use a pair of
kitchen shears to cut the tomatoes up into chunks; stir and use as
needed. Use a sprinkle of fresh chopped oregano or basil on top or
whole milk mozzarella for the authentic taste.
"Less is more" is the idea here.
Zane
: Ky, to be honest, I had my doubts about Auburn, but watching the
: Mississippi game tonight...well, those doubts are _gone_. This team's
: for real. If they win out the rest of the regular season, they're
: guaranteed a #1 seed, and they deserve it. Frankly, I'd rather have it
: that way--keep 'em out of Duke's way at least until the Final Four. :)
Hey, I could live with that!!! ;-) Some AU fan friends and
I were trying to figure out which teams we were the most afraid
of and more than three teams were mentioned. Lets see there was
Duke, UConn, Cincy, Uk and several others. It looks like we'll
have to be in a regional with someone scary (and who knows, Auburn
might lose in the first round, it's a crazy game).
I can sort of understand some people's skepticism of Auburn.
The SEC seems to be a tad down this year. Bama, for years
a sweet 16 team, is way down. Vandy is weaker than usual.
Same for Arkansas and LSU. Kentucky and Auburn are probably
the two best league teams and the Cats spanked Auburn in
Lexington last month. Still, the Tigers are 23-1, that's
hard to ignore. Their starting five is very good and they've
got the deepest bench I've seen here since I started
following the team in the early 70s. I've been to several
games and they play really well together. The first few
minutes of the Ole Miss game the other night was incredible
and Auburn led Ole Miss 50-20 at the half. Ole Miss isn't
a slack team, they were an NCAA team last year and many of the
players from that team are back.
In early January, I spoke with a friend at the halftime of a
game and we agreed that Auburn was good (they were undefeated
at the time) but reality was sure to hit sooner or later.
Hey, this is Auburn basketball, crummy teams are a way of
life here! I saw him after the Ole Miss game and we laughed
about that conversation. He was giddy, "WHO ARE THESE GUYS,
WHERE DID THEY COME FROM?" They were good then and they are
very good now.
Oh well, I've rambled enough, I'll just say I'm not predicting
a FInal Four appearance and I'm sure as heck not predicting a
victory over anyone, but Auburn is for real.
Peace and love!
--
David Swanger
University Computing
Auburn University, AL
swa...@mail.auburn.edu
Zane
Jeff Tindall (tin...@cinci.infi.net) wrote:
: pkas...@lynx.dac.neu.edu wrote:
: > In article <tindall-0902...@pm2-94.cvg.infi.net>,
: > Jeff Tindall (tin...@cinci.infi.net) wrote:
: > : pkas...@lynx.dac.neu.edu wrote:
: > : > I'd liken Elton Brand to Karl Malone
: > : 1. What in God's name are you smoking?
: > : 2. Kin I have some?
: > : 3. Elton Brand is to Karl Malone as Larry Czonka is to Ricky Williams.
: > Thanks for snipping the rest of my statement- where I said it was in
: > how they play the game. I didn't say Brand was as good as the Mailman,
: > or even will be.
: >
: > Both are power forwards; both can score and rebound with anyone on
: > the low post, both run the floor as well as any other power forward.
: Yeah. And Czonka and Williams are both running backs. Right about there is
: where the similarity ends. Same goes for Brand vis a vis the Mailman.
I disagree. I never saw Csonka play, but I know he was a "grind-it-
out" back, which Ricky Williams isn't. I do know that Brand and the
Mailman have a fair share of similarities in how they play.
Is Brand "the second coming" of the Mailman? Probably not; he's not
*that* much like him. I never claimed he was; I merely said he plays
with a similar style, except he seems a little more reserved in his
nature than the Mailman ever was.
: Get it now? Am I goin' to fast for ya?
Don't flatter yourself.
Phil Kasiecki
--
Philip T. Kasiecki
pkas...@ieee.org
http://lynx.dac.neu.edu/p/pkasieck/
128 days and counting!
"Life is not important except in the impact it has on others' lives."
-Jackie Robinson
Diane Richardson
Stanley Horwitz <st...@tempest.temple.edu> wrote in article
<79s918$iep$3...@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu>...
> JANIC412 (jani...@aol.com) wrote:
> : Several times I have seen a site www.cakerecipes.com refered to here in
this
> : news group. Every time I try to access this site I get server unknown.
Am I
> : doing something wrong or is there a secret to getting in? Please help.
Jan
>
> A quick Yahoo search resulted in my finding http://www.cakerecipe.com
which
> is probably the Web site you have in mind. Note that there's no "s" in
> the URL for this Web site.
>
>
Diane Richardson
Can...@ulster.net says...
>> I've been asked about roses to grow in Show Low, Arizona, which turns out
>> to be in Zone 5 due to its mountain location. I don't know what types,
>> habit or colors she's interested in.
>>
>Having been to the mountains of Arizona, I really wouldn't want to
>recommend anything. Growing roses there presents special challenges which
>aren't our challenges.
You be the one with the special challenges--Show Low is right on Hwy 60, we
have an antenna in Pie Town, which is not far east, also on 60. The VLA is
also on 60 and at 7400', which is a thou more than Show Low. Very similar.
No special challenges. It sits in the largest stand of Ponderosas in the US,
and in the summer I am positive it is similar to Santa Fe, which doesn't have
a constant lovefest with blackspot and every other fungi you challengees are
married to.
I wouldn't try to grow tea roses in Show Low, I'd stay away from them.
Otherwise, I'd plant any rose that caught my fancy. Show Low's zone 5
ain't Chicago's zone 5, ain't Schenectady's zone 5--know it in your heart.
I'd list a bunch of roses, but I don't see the point, there are so many.
both hands on the wheel, zones 5, 6, and 7
Diane Richardson
From the Salt Lake City paper The Deseret News:
Diane Richardson
>>Well, I bought one of his books a few years back, and thought it was lousy.
>>That'll have to serve as life's own justice, I suppose.
>>
>>Les
>
>Which one? I wasn't too thrilled with his "Cooks American".
>
>Ruth
Diane Richardson
rec.food.recipes. I keep seeing recipes that were "imported from
MasterCook". Is this some sort of recipe compilation? This group also
contributes greatly to my collection. I remember seeing a CD for sale
that claimed to have one million recipes on it! I couldn't even begin to
imagine how one would use it...Greg
Diane Richardson
``````````````````````````````````
Melo...@webtv.net (Margie) wrote:
> I'm sure others have
>their views. There are those of us who feel that we have the right to
>read whatever posting we choose. If something offends us, we have the
>right to skip it. Simple. Our choice. No one has to read Sheldon's posts.
<snip>
>It's not Sheldon who has been carrying this bs on over the past weeks.
>It's these self-righteous drop-ins .....
Diane Richardson
>This year was probably more like a feeling of relief rather than
>jubilation, since most people have been expecting them to repeat since
>last Spring when Elway said he was returning.
>
I certainly wouldn't use the word 'somber', as Mike did below, nor
relief, as jetrain did above. I felt a sense of satisfaction, of
accomplishment, of completion. There was a sense of destiny all
through this past season, don't you think? And we fans were part of
that. I felt it all season long, and we contributed to it, all of us.
Those NFL commercials that were showing up after the Super Bowl, where
the players were out in the world to say 'thanks' to their fans, that
really hit home with me this year, because I felt like we fans were
more a part of the proceedings than in years past. Foolish? Maybe, but
nonetheless.....
>Mike Sindona wrote:
>>
>> Me too. I posted a message a while back about my somber feelings towards
>> the Broncos' 2nd Superbowl win. I was happy, but I had the "Been there,
>> done that" kinda feeling. If you saw footage of the Broncos' locker room
>> after Bowl win #2, it was nowhere near as crazy as last year. Just a bunch
>> of guys with shit-eating grins on their faces, getting dressed back in their
>> street clothes.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Adam Smith wrote in message <79u4rp$ju8$7...@news1.bu.edu>...
>> >Taking a detour into the realm of touchy-feely stuff...
>> >
>> >I'm curious as to how everyone (and by "everyone" I mean Broncos fans,
>> >of course) reacted to Super Bowl XXXIII, as compared to XXXII. As for
>> >myself...
>> >
>> >I watched XXXII at a friend's place with some non-fans. (My only real
>> >option in Boston.) After the game was won, I volunteered to hang
>> >around and help clean up, simply because I was way too jumpy to drive.
>> >After I did get home, I was unable to sleep all night. I kept
>> >repeating to myself, "The Broncos won the Super Bowl... The Broncos
>> >won the Super Bowl..." I still didn't believe it. It just didn't
>> >seem like it could be real. At some point during the night I got up,
>> >pulled the last two weeks of newspapers (Boston Globe) out of the
>> >recycling bin, and re-read all the pregame analysis predicting a
>> >crushing Green Bay win. I was particularly amused by the issue in
>> >which one columnist was explaining that the Broncos' only hope was for
>> >the game to be a shootout, because they really didn't have any hope of
>> >slowing down the Green Bay offense, while another columnist on the
>> >same page had written that the Broncos had to hope for a low-scoring,
>> >defensive game, because there was no way they were going to score much
>> >against the dominating Packer defense. When the Monday paper arrived
>> >at 6AM, with the sports section headlined "Broncos Buck Odds" over the
>> >now-classic picture of a triumphant Elway towering over a sea of
>> >photographers, it finally felt real. Monday was hell, due to the lack
>> >of sleep, but I slept fine Monday night.
>> >
>> >I also watched XXXIII at a friend's house, with non-fans. It was
>> >enjoyable, but the sheer excitement of the previous one wasn't there,
>> >probably because (A) the Broncos were favored, and by the time of the
>> >game I'd become convinced that the Falcons didn't stand a chance, and
>> >(B) the never-won-a-Super-Bowl angst was gone. I had no trouble
>> >sleeping that night.
>> >
>> >I guess the first Broncos Super Bowl win was like a first kiss: You
>> >never forget it, and nothing ever quite compares to it.
>> >
>> >Anyone else?
>> >
>> >--
>> >Adam Smith
>> >Boston University
>> >Department of Aerospace and Mechanical Engineering
>> >
>> >"In theory there's no difference between theory and practice, but in
>> >practice there is."
Fillard Millmore
Resident of the United States
Diane Richardson
>steadfastly to something so bereft of ultimate significance.
>
>-Todd Jones
Aha! But it is obviously significant enough that you post the above whining,
cry-baby post. I, for one, am totally psyched that UCONN has been number 1 for
so long, and is still getting number 1 votes.
And you know what? It *is* significant. Here in CT we still talk about the
week both the men and women were ranked #1 - the first time ever. The only
school to ever do it. Then, here we go and do it again this year.
UCONN has had some great accomplishments recently. Being #1 for ten weeks is
one of the best things to ever happen to UCONN.
Duke fans have continued to post whiny, cry-baby posts (like yours) where the
first half of the post says how being number 1 isn't important, and the second
half explains why Duke should be #1 anyway.
Too bad. Sour grapes. Duke lost. UCONN was number 1 for ten weeks. Get over
it.
Jama
Diane Richardson
push their conference record to 13-0, thereby keeping pressure on the men's
team to keep its conference record unblemished. Not wanting to be the team
that blinks first, the men respond with a 100-54 drubbing of the University
of Virginia Cavaliers in University Hall to move their conference record to
12-0. Corey Maggette brought his "A" game, as did all the Blue Devils.
Taymon, Elton, and BUURRRGE! all played well inside. Taymon had some nice
inside moves and Burgess hit his two free throws. The Devils did have some
lazy passes (Maggette, James, Carrawell) that were picked off by the
Cavalier defense, but the Devils played solid basketball, especially on the
defensive end, for the entire game. Carrawell handled the point pretty well
while Avery was out, and Battier hit from three. Solid play by the Devils.
Spirited play, for a couple of stretches, by the Cavaliers. Those
back-to-back threes from Duke after Virginia had cut the Duke lead to six,
seemed to take the wind out of the Cavalier players and fans. I heard
several chants by Cavalier fans ("A-very", "Hey, Elton. I don't like you
very much."; "I'm your daddy, Battier") that were just sad. But, hey, they
tried and there wasn't much for them to cheer about. Congrats to both Blue
Devil teams.
Diane Richardson
to use than Excel. For observations, I use a garden journal.
Toni
Diane Richardson
think an objective observer would have a hard time looking at the facts and
concluding that El Amin was superior this season. >>
Performance is not based on statistics of any kind; I'm sorry to tell you.
El-Amin can distribute the basketball like no other, when he's in that mindset.
When he wants to score, he DOES score. Avery does not match up to Khalid.
Would William Avery lead Duke past a top ranked team without Brand? Most
likely not. Is Avery an emotional leader like Khalid? No. Does Khalid play
his best against the best competition? Yes, he sure does. He has already
outplayed many great guards on the season (Cleaves, Barkley, Lee, Holloway).
Diane Richardson
>>rom: jetrain <jet...@erols.com>
>>Date: 2/9/99 3:10 PM US Mountain Standard Time
>>Message-id: <36C0B2...@erols.com>
>>
>>I am NOT a Reeves apolgist. His play calling and the handling of the
>>Elway situation was awful. But he has helped guide 4 teams to SB's that
>>probably had no business getting there based on their overall talent. I
>>don't think you can totally fault Reeves for losing 4 SB's to teams that
>>everyone expected him to lose to.
>
>The problem with your theory was that at the time everyone expected
>the Broncos to beat the Washington Redskins. The Broncos had
>John Elway. The Broncos had been there before and gave the
>New York Giants a fairly good game, considering how the Giants
>had crushed their playoff opponents. And the Redskins had no
>major talents. They had an unknown quarterback who wasn't
>even their original starting quarterback. The Broncos were
> favored to beat the Redskins and jumped off to an early 10 - 0
>lead. Then Reeves got conservative and the wheels fell off.
>Of the four Broncos Super Bowl losses, that one had to be the
>most humilating, because there was no good reason the Broncos
>should have lost to the Redskins. Other than Dan Reeves bonehead
>coaching.
>
Doug Williams, whom nobody outside of Washington had heard of before
or after that SB, lit up the Broncos for 35 points in the 2nd quarter,
while Timmy Smith (WHO?) set a SB rushing record that still stands
today of over 200 yards.
How could a team be good enough to get to the Super Bowl twice in
three years and then give up 35 points in a single quarter and 200
yards rushing? To a couple of no-names?
The answer lies in what you saw on the field, and more importantly on
the sidelines, in SB33. Reeves becoming more and more frustrated and
more and more agitated as Shanahan foiled his every strategy and
countered his every adjustment.
What coaches has Reeves lost Super Bowls to? Parcells, Gibbs, Walsh,
Shanahan, four of the finest strategists the NFL has known. Reeves is
proof there's validity in the Peter Principle. He never had a chance.
Rob Clark
>Not *every* word ever written in this thread
>is about claiming CAN Laura is or is not an
>"OSA Whore." Sometimes people talk about side
>issues. Really, they do.
i tend to agree that since the NWU laura had nothing to do with her
name being appropriated in this way (unless anyone has any evidence
otherwise), it is in fairly bad taste to go about lambasting and
attacking an innocent third party like this, calling them a kook, or
whatever.
rob
Rob Clark
>Is everyone basing their convinctions on Garry Scarff's post, or are
>they basing them on something that's been discussed in IRC, or what?
it's all "backchannels." frankly i've no clue what everyone's going
on about except it seems terribly silly.
rob
Deana Marie Holmes
wrote:
>In article <36c3478f...@enews.newsguy.com>, mir...@newsguy.com wrote:
>
>> I would also like to note that this was brought up to me by a person
>> who knows LT; this person was a bit miffed that you took it upon
>> yourself to block out the other names of NWU Laura (aka "Laura
>> [censored]" and "Laura [censored] [censored]") but not LT. In other words, it
>> was Not My Observation, originally. But I thought I'd bring it to
>> your attention.
>
>Was that really necessary? Up to now, everyone has taken care to
>avoid broadcasting those names to Usenet.
I will note that no care, none whatsoever, was taken to broadcast LT's
name on the Net.
Moreover, I will note that NWU Laura inserted herself into this by
contacting certain persons on this newsgroup FIRST. She was NOT
tracked down, so far as I know, she contacted (among others) Keith
Henson. As far as I am concerned, the moment that NWU Laura first
contacted people, she lost her privacy, and she should have expected
that her name(s) would be brandished about. After all a web browser
can find her name(s) quite easily.
Deana Marie Holmes / member of the "Gang of Three" (Rod Keller)
The Few, The Proud, The Banned (2x + 1 ISP on Scientology ban list)
$cientology: Sponsor Windows84: "Where CAN'T you go today?
mir...@xmission.com
Deana Marie Holmes
wrote:
>Thank you very much for outing NWU Laura. You're so
>considerate. You really live as you preach, don't you?
As I have said to other persons, the moment NWU Laura contacted Keith
Henson via email (and I have those emails, Keith forwarded them to
me), I believe she inserted herself into the controversy and lost any
sort of expectation of privacy she might have expected. Added to
that, she's been having all sorts of chummy little chats and sharing
her theories around to various and sundry.
In short, she inserted herself into this.
This is a very different situation from the CAN Laura, IMHO.
Deana Marie Holmes
wrote:
>On Thu, 11 Feb 1999 03:03:40 GMT, mir...@newsguy.com (Deana Marie
>Holmes) wrote:
>
>>I would also like to note that this was brought up to me by a person
>>who knows LT; this person was a bit miffed that you took it upon
>>yourself to block out the other names of NWU Laura ...
>
>Wtf did you do that for? Geez fucking louise. Two wrongs make a
>right?
Because Ms. NWU Laura has been inserting herself into this controversy
from day one by contacting people and having chummy little email chats
and so on.
She's no innocent bystander, folks.