Copyrighted materials
Mark Adams
error on my part?
Personally, I'd like to see wide distribution of all known
techniques and materials. Using copyrights to prohibit distribution
seems more an attempt to increase market value by limiting supply,
despite the publical position indicating that the materials
may prove uncomprehensible or harmful in unprepared hands.
Homer Wilson Smith
>"Mark Adams" <ad...@psilink.com> wrote:
>>Personally, I'd like to see wide distribution of all known
>>techniques and materials. Using copyrights to prohibit distribution
>>seems more an attempt to increase market value by limiting supply,
>>despite the publical position indicating that the materials
>>may prove uncomprehensible or harmful in unprepared hands.
>Um, don't you think if someone writes something they should be able to
>at least control the disposition of what they created? And if they are
>entitled to this privilege, should not it be transferable to their heirs?
Not if it is something he wrote because WE created it and
agreed to it, and chose him to lead us back to it.
Not if it is discovered truth, rather than created artistic
fancy.
Not if it is the structure of MY body, heart, mind and soul.
Not if it is MY MEMORIES.
Not if it is about ME.
Not if it is about MY SALVATION FROM RUIN.
Sorry, if you figure out how to save the world, it belongs
in the public domain ipso facto.
That's a moral statement, not a legal statement.
Homer
>Much of the material being published here is NOT copyrighted, because
>copyright infers publication and access. There's no way the C of S will
>bring a case against someone for publishing supposedly OT materials, because
>that brings the prying eyes of the Government into the game.
All of the OT levels are fully copyrighted, and in fact that
is the only protection the Church has, because if they weren't copyrighted
they wouldn't have any basis to stand on at all.
>Is it really so very bad that someone has something and is deciding who else can
>have it?
Yes, if it is about me and my salvation IT IS MINE.
To me it seems the basis of our daily society.
Our daily society is a graveyeard for worms and carrion eaters.
Hardly something to hold up in admiration.
Even if these purported OT
>materials are NOT copyrighted, they ARE stolen and are not being published with
>the permission of their authors or his heirs.
Knowledge can not be copyrighted, only the exact personal
expression of it can be.
People are trying to patent and copyright the RSA algorithm, the
LZW algorithm and Scientology. Same thing. It's nuts. Truth belongs
to everyone.
>It's really not an issue of the "evil C of S"...it's an issue of property rights and responsible
>behavior. If I ever have a secret, remind me not to tell you, huh?
Remind me that when I find the secret to your salvation, not to
give it to you for any reason whatsoever, unless you pay me through
the teeth for it, everything you own and more in fact.
There's an asshole born every minute, but apparently they all
work for the Church.
And apparently LRH was King of the Assholes.
Homer
dennis....@support.com
poma...@hookup.net (Sanguine):
I asked:
>>Sorry, my phone has been dead. What's AST?
Mr. Agent, helpfully:
>AST is alt.syntax.tactical, a newsgroup whose founding purpose was to
>"invade" other newsgroups; basically just come in & confuse the hell
>out of them, get them squabbling amongst themselves & other
>newsgroups, start massive flamewars & disrupt whatever order there was
>in the group.
Order in the group? <chuckle> Would we even notice?
>So how could we lurkers here on a.r.s. tell they were here?
Ask '56 ChevyStationWagon. I think there would be a
marked increase in f*ckhead synonyms being lobbed into the
middle of the fray. But would we notice?
Only if Sally stays gone.
>Sounds like SNAFU to me...
>
>SS
Nothing the vets from ars can't deal with.
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
<dennis....@support.com>
dennis....@support.com
Dorris,
I believe Mark was speaking exclusively of the "scriptures" of
the scienos. Not about software developed and copyrighted.
BTW, Dorris is your frist name, no?
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
<dennis....@support.com>
lena...@nevada.edu (Lenadams Dorris)
>"Mark Adams" <ad...@psilink.com> wrote:
>
>Personally, I'd like to see wide distribution of all known
>techniques and materials. Using copyrights to prohibit distribution
>seems more an attempt to increase market value by limiting supply,
>despite the publical position indicating that the materials
>may prove uncomprehensible or harmful in unprepared hands.
>
>Um, don't you think if someone writes something they should be able to
>at least control the disposition of what they created? And if they are
>entitled to this privilege, should not it be transferable to their heirs?
>
>I sure as hell would sue your ass if you tried to violate MY copyright. I make
>my living from what I write, and I'm not interested in having anyone else
>control my words because they believe others have a "right to know."
>
>Much of the material being published here is NOT copyrighted, because
>copyright infers publication and access. There's no way the C of S will
>bring a case against someone for publishing supposedly OT materials, because
>that brings the prying eyes of the Government into the game.
>
>Is it really so very bad that someone has something and is deciding who else
>can
>have it? To me it seems the basis of our daily society. Even if these purported
>OT
>materials are NOT copyrighted, they ARE stolen and are not being published with
>the permission of their authors or his heirs.
>
>It's really not an issue of the "evil C of S"...it's an issue of property
>rights and responsible
>behavior. If I ever have a secret, remind me not to tell you, huh?
>
>_______________________________________________________________________
>lenadams wm dorris/lena...@nevada.edu/ve...@well.sf.ca.us/702 876 8723
>
dennis....@support.com
p...@panix.com (Philip Elmer-DeWitt):
>The following is a copyright article from this week's TIME Magazine,
>reposted with permission. For permission to reprint or repost, please
>contact p...@well.com.
>
>
>TECHNOLOGY
>
>NETWATCH
>
>FLAMEWAR
> Someone or something has been busy lately on alt.religion.scientology,
>the Usenet newsgroup that carries the escalating flamewar on the Internet
>between the Church of Scientology and its critics. Over the past few
>weeks, dozens of messages -- some of which contained documents the church
>considers secret and sacred -- have mysteriously disappeared. Dennis
>Erlich, a former Scientology minister, accuses the church of unleashing a
>''robot canceler'' that deleted his messages. A spokesperson calls his
>charges ''baseless.'' Erlich says he will repost the material as soon as
>he figures out why his phone line suddenly went dead.
[snip]
>Copyright 1995 Time Inc. All rights reserved.
>Transmitted: 95-01-08 12:06:18 EST
>
>--
>Philip Elmer-DeWitt p...@well.com
>TIME Magazine p...@panix.com phil...@aol.com
>Read TIME on America Online, where we get paid to take abuse.
>TIME's newest venue: http://www.timeinc.com/
Phil,
Thanks for the mention. I guess the scienos will claim
credit for creating the storm that knocked the phones out for
a few of the houses on my block.
Probably a bunch of Oat Teas got around a telephone and
beamed their super-powers at it until ... bam! Bad weather!
Maybe not.
dennis....@support.com
Oh WondeRuss:
>The individual is always responsible for his own condition.
[this little gem is a perfect statement of the scieno Blame-
the-Victim philosophy]
Including victims of child abuse, rape, fraud, kidnapping
and murder?
>Do you EVER have *any* idea of what you are talking about? Or
>are you simply on "automatic" all the time?
You're saying the poor wog has his R6 bank going and BTs
talking all at once. No thetan home?
>You 'hope' I'm not
>clear because I'm not living up to what a clear is supposed to be.
You won't tell us your case level or training level til we do
op-pro, right?
>Russell Shaw
dennis....@support.com
Wonderous One dug out this gem:
>Even though you've "studied it all", here are a few from Science of
>Survival. LRH's writing is in quotes:
Thanks for tracking it down. I'm familiar with these few
sentences. Although they don't really deal with Divinity,
they do have the word "God" capitalized. Big deal.
>"The existence of God and spiritual manifestations could be
>classified as theta universe" page 60.
Meaningless. Only has meaning as opposed to another scieno-
only term: MEST Universe. No description of God here, I'm
afraid.
>"One might postulate two more realities. The first is that of the
>Supreme Being.
Ie. God is something we invented. He does say that much more
clearly on the (unedited) Class VIII Tapes.
>No culture in the history of the world, save the
>thoroughly depraved and expiring ones, has failed to affirm the
>existence of a Supreme Being.
Scientology fits the discription of a depraved and expiring
"culture" and has no goal but to raise people to the level of
God, in their own deluded minds.
>It is an empirical observation that
>men without a strong and lasting faith in a Supreme Being are less
>capable, less ethical, and less valuable to themselves and society.
>A government wishing to deprave it's people to the point where
>they will accept the most perfidious and rotten acts abolishes first
>the concept of God; and in the wake of that destroys the family, ...
Good discription of the actions of the cult! Written in '52,
before there was a cult.
>Modern science has gone so far as to advocate the rise of man from
>mud and clay alone; has denied to him even a semblance of a soul;
>and so has not only solved none of the problems of the humanities,
>but has aided and abetted Godless totalitarian governments ...The
>theta universe is a postulated reality for which there exists much
>evidence" page 98-99.
Ah, evidence again?
>>>Best you make some more lame excuses<<<
>
>No need to. Just quote LRH, verbatim. Don't you agree with this
>too, Dennis?
Yes, Phatso described his own "religion's" future in the
above paragraph.
You've done yet another Wonderuss No-answer!
It only shows that Phatso had a passing acquaintence of the power
of the *concept* of God in the evolution of society. It shows
nothing about the specific theology of your godless cult.
Because there is none.
>Russell Shaw
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
<dennis....@support.com>
BTW, did you have permission from your boss to post the quotes?
jerry...@support.com
Dennis Erlich wrote:
>p...@panix.com (Philip Elmer-DeWitt):
>
>The following is a copyright article from this week's TIME Magazine,
>reposted with permission. For permission to reprint or repost, please
>contact p...@well.com.
Time Magazine:
>
>FLAMEWAR
> Someone or something has been busy lately on alt.religion.scientology,
>the Usenet newsgroup that carries the escalating flamewar on the Internet
>between the Church of Scientology and its critics. Over the past few
>weeks, dozens of messages -- some of which contained documents the church
>considers secret and sacred -- have mysteriously disappeared. Dennis
>Erlich, a former Scientology minister, accuses the church of unleashing a
>''robot canceler'' that deleted his messages. A spokesperson calls his
>charges ''baseless.'' Erlich says he will repost the material as soon as
>he figures out why his phone line suddenly went dead.
[End of Time expose]
Sending a illegal worm out on the net to stealthfully distroy other
peoples' opinions in order to control world perception of their fascist
cult is a little more than a "flamewar." If Newt Gingrich broke into
Tim Mag's offices and distroyed critical articles about to go to press,
I suppose this would be "an argument between a couple guys?"
Maybe the Church cut a hundred million off the Time suit for this
minimizing editorial effort? I'm sorry, I was not impressed.
>[snip]
That was the problem with it. Plus it had no teeth. ^^^^^
>Copyright 1995 Time Inc. All rights reserved.
A shadow of its former self, with a real flashy www home page
though. A lot of form, little content.
-Jerry
CO XMO B1, Knights of Xenu (KoX)
Jerry Ladd (Xenologist [a "religion"] since 1989)
"Everything must go."
-Wild Palms
Enid Vien
Welcome to ars Mark.
> Don't copyrights expire after 17 years? Or is this an
> error on my part?
They are renewable up to 75 years I believe.
>
> Personally, I'd like to see wide distribution of all known
> techniques and materials. Using copyrights to prohibit distribution
> seems more an attempt to increase market value by limiting supply,
> despite the publical position indicating that the materials
> may prove uncomprehensible or harmful in unprepared hands.
>
Yes, I agree. It is an attempt at a monopoly.
Love,
Enid
>
>
dennis....@support.com
Jerry of KoX:
>[End of Time expose]
>
>Sending a illegal worm out on the net to stealthfully distroy other
>peoples' opinions in order to control world perception of their fascist
>cult is a little more than a "flamewar." If Newt Gingrich broke into
>Tim Mag's offices and distroyed critical articles about to go to press,
>I suppose this would be "an argument between a couple guys?"
>
>Maybe the Church cut a hundred million off the Time suit for this
>minimizing editorial effort? I'm sorry, I was not impressed.
Just mentioning it is better than the hundreds of papers and
mags that let it slide completely. Give 'em some credit,
Jer.
>[snip]
>
>That was the problem with it. Plus it had no teeth. ^^^^^
I thought it was funny.
>Copyright 1995 Time Inc. All rights reserved.
>
>A shadow of its former self, with a real flashy www home page
>though. A lot of form, little content.
It's bound to produce more readers on ars.
>-Jerry
Philip Elmer-DeWitt
> >Maybe the Church cut a hundred million off the Time suit for this
> >minimizing editorial effort?
Hey, where was I when they were passing out the big bucks!
Tilman Hausherr
Philip,
Glad you wrote about it. I would have written this very differently,
e.g. mention the 1991 article, and mention what weird stuff is
in this "sacred" material.
Important is that something has been written about it: there are
still too many people who think that scientology is "just yet another
american religion", in a country where new religions are invented
all the time.
I thought: why was the title FLAME WAR ? Maybe you're right. When
a newbie looks here, she / he will see the posts of Jack Farmer
or Sally Hooper (some say it's Jacks backup identity), and "Hooten"s
answers. Killfile them, and you'll see a solid discussion.
Tilman
--
--- Tilman Hausherr [KoX, 1.9]
If your newsreader cannot use the "Reply-To:" header line:
business (optical archives 'n stuff): til...@sietec.de
private (Magic, Co$, MWC, ...): til...@netmbx2.netmbx.de
In cases of major discrepancy it's always reality that's got it wrong.
The GUIDE is definitive. Reality is frequently inaccurate.
(The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy 2, p. 35)
dennis....@support.com
You got it, Len. What should we talk about?
Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * *
<dennis....@support.com>
>dennis....@support.com wrote:
>
>BTW, Dorris is your frist name, no?
>
>
>No, it's my last name.My name is Lenadams Dorris. You can call me Len, though.
Martin G. V. Hunt
>
> I thought: why was the title FLAME WAR ? Maybe you're right. When
> a newbie looks here, she / he will see the posts of Jack Farmer
> or Sally Hooper (some say it's Jacks backup identity), and "Hooten"s
> answers. Killfile them, and you'll see a solid discussion.
>
> Tilman
Excellent point, Tilman. Ars is often accused of being full of flames,
yet when I read other newsgroups, it doesn't seem so bad in comparison.
What flames are here, are largely the result of the members of the cult,
who actually have an Internet Project with a target of distracting the
group from its main purpose with useless flames and rants.
Ignore Sally, Jack, and a few other fanatical, rabid cult members, and
you remove the vast majority of these flames.
I now warn new posters to the group about this tactic of drawing people
into flame wars, to distract from the issues of child abuse, forced
abortions, locking people up in basements, children being thrown into
chain lockers onboard cult ships, staged accidents, stolen documents,
barratry, and countless other criminal Scientology cult actions.
Let's get on with it, and ignore the idiot flamers, folks!
--
Cogito, ergo sum. Martin Hunt, av...@freenet.carleton.ca
hooten
: Philip,
: Glad you wrote about it. I would have written this very differently,
: e.g. mention the 1991 article, and mention what weird stuff is
: in this "sacred" material.
: Important is that something has been written about it: there are
: still too many people who think that scientology is "just yet another
: american religion", in a country where new religions are invented
: all the time.
: I thought: why was the title FLAME WAR ? Maybe you're right. When
: a newbie looks here, she / he will see the posts of Jack Farmer
: or Sally Hooper (some say it's Jacks backup identity), and "Hooten"s
: answers. Killfile them, and you'll see a solid discussion.
Whoa, dude. I have made several relevant points. Don't be so hasty.
This flames are being provoked by the church of scientology. At least
check out the facts or realizing the lies of non-answers that the church
answers to my questions before completely writing me off. You might be
surprised.
-- Your friend.
Sally Hooper
In a message to All <01/11/95> Martin G. V. Hunt wrote:
MG> Excellent point, Tilman. Ars is often accused of being full of flames,
MG> yet when I read other newsgroups, it doesn't seem so bad in comparison.
MG> What flames are here, are largely the result of the members of the cult,
MG> who actually have an Internet Project with a target of distracting the
MG> group from its main purpose with useless flames and rants.
MG> Ignore Sally, Jack, and a few other fanatical, rabid cult members, and
MG> you remove the vast majority of these flames.
MG> I now warn new posters to the group about this tactic of drawing people
MG> into flame wars, to distract from the issues of child abuse, forced
MG> abortions, locking people up in basements, children being thrown into
MG> chain lockers onboard cult ships, staged accidents, stolen documents,
MG> barratry, and countless other criminal Scientology cult actions.
MG> Let's get on with it, and ignore the idiot flamers, folks!
Just continue your nattering without any accountablity..
sounds like a typical plan to me!
Could be we are getting to you?
Sally Hooper
* WCE 2.0/2118 * "I don't bite. Well, that's wrong. I do bite." -K'Ehleyr
Lenadams Dorris
Gosh, I don't know...seems there's plenty of talking going on without joining the fray. I wonder how many of the people
posting to this newsgroup really have a good sense of it all, though. For me, this is *not* all so cut and dry. My time as
LRH Comm ASHO, KOT AOLA, Org Manager FOLO WUS and staff at IHQ is not so easily characterized by me. I've
ignored this newsgroup for years, but now find myself re-evaluating so much. I knew all these people, Andre Tabayoyan
and Mike Silverman and Vickie Aznaran and Bill Franks and Heber Jentsch (former Las Vegas showboy) and so many
others. They were, if you will, part of my "family", the family of a seventeen year old who left his home town to strike off
and make his fortune as a Sea Org member. Here I am 18 years later, wondering what it all means... ;')
Anyways, Dennis, good to meet you. I knew your name, of course, and walked by your Flag door more than once. BTW, did
you know Mary Garlick from St. Hill? She was kind of my mentor, and I was so sad when she passed...