A classic example of the fair game policy at work

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Stacy Brooks Young

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Sep 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/24/98
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(Gerry Armstrong is my friend now that we are both out of Scientology, and I
have already told him this story. I have told him how sorry I am for my part in
trying to destroy him when I was still an OSA staff member. I’ve told several
other people this story as well, and they have urged me to share it because it
is such a classic illustration of how far DM and his cronies are willing to go
to destroy their enemies.)

I was the managing editor of FREEDOM Magazine in the Spring of 1985, when Julie
Christoffersson’s lawsuit against the Church of Scientology was being retried. I
was also the main writer for the Office of Special Affairs, meaning that when DM
needed something special written, he called on me.

Julie Christoffersson had named Gerry Armstrong as a witness in her trial. DM
wanted to discredit Gerry because he was extremely concerned about the
information Gerry had. Gerry had been the LRH Archivist up until the end of
1981, and as such he had had access to all of LRH’s personal papers. These
included documents which, I know from my own viewing of them at the beginning of
1982, provide incontrovertible evidence that LRH suffered from clinical paranoid
schizophrenia and manic depression from a very early age.

There were letters to his parents in which he exhibited wildly delusional
paranoia. There was a document, known during Gerry’s trial as "the
Affirmations," in which LRH clearly revealed himself to have delusions of
grandeur. There was another document, nicknamed "Blood Ritual," in which LRH
described in grisly detail various methods of horrific sexual torture which he
wanted to inflict on his second wife, Sara, whom he had met when he was heavily
involved in black magic.

Gerry had been the first person in Scientology to see all of these documents. He
was critiquing many of the "About the Author" sections in the LRH books and
comparing the information in them to the documents he had in the archives. In
the fall of 1981 Norman Starkey, then directly under DM in Special Project,
which would soon become Author Services, Inc., received a report that the
information that was being published about LRH’s life by Scientology was false,
according to the documents in the archives. It was clear that some of the
documents (such as Blood Ritual) could present public relations problems if they
were ever made public.

When Norman received this report he immediately ordered Gerry in for security
checking, since he was obviously disaffected and clearly critical of LRH, which
of course meant that he had overts and withholds against LRH which needed to be
"pulled." Gerry got into such serious ethics trouble, in fact, that it made him
realize how deeply he had been defrauded by LRH and Scientology.

Gerry was working at the time with Omar Garrison, a writer who had been hired to
write a biography of LRH. Gerry had been systematically making copies of all the
archives materials and taking the copies to Omar for his biography research. By
the time he blew in November 1981, Gerry had photocopied the entire archive for
Omar.

DM, Norman Starkey, Lyman Spurlock, Terri Gamboa, Vaughn and I all tried to get
Gerry to come back to Scientology and also to return the copies of the archives
materials. When it became apparent that Gerry was not going to do either, and it
became known that he had sent LRH’s documents to anti-Scientology attorney
Michael Flynn, DM had the Church of Scientology of California file suit against
Gerry for theft of the documents. Because it looked like CSC might lack
standing, DM arranged for Mary Sue to intervene in the suit, because she had the
strongest claim on LRH’s personal papers, since she was his wife.

I was part of the Gerry Armstrong Dead Agent Unit -- the GA DA Unit for short.
Vaughn, myself, Andy Lenarcic, Ann Lenarcic, and a few others worked round the
clock to come up with evidence that would prove Armstrong was a "shoddy
researcher" and therefore was wrong in saying that the information being
published by the church about LRH was false.

We did everything we could to find evidence to back up claims LRH had made about
himself. We looked high and low for proof that on a shakedown cruise of the PC
815 during World War II, LRH really had sunk a submarine off the coast of Oregon
in 1942, for example. The evidence just did not exist. We tried to find evidence
that he had really graduated from George Washington University and that he had
studied nuclear physics at Princeton. It just wasn’t true. We tried to prove
that he had been on an intelligence mission to break up Aleister Crowley’s Ordo
Templer Orientis (OTO) when he went to Pasadena in 1946 and began dabbling in
black magic. There just wasn’t any evidence.

CSC’s and Mary Sue’s case againt Gerry was tried by Judge Paul Breckinridge in
the Spring of 1984. Michael Flynn was Gerry’s attorney. He is a brilliant
lawyer, and he ate Mary Sue and the church for breakfast during that trial.
Flynn’s defense of Gerry was to show that Gerry had taken copies of the
documents knowing he would have to defend himself against the church’s fair game
tactics, the point being that he needed the documents to prove that the church
was lying.

Flynn was so successful in his defense of Gerry that Judge Breckinridge issued a
now-famous decision in which he labeled L. Ron Hubbard a paranoid schizophrenic
and called the Chruch of Scientology an alter-ego of Hubbard’s insanity.
Scientology was able to get the documents sealed, and they remained sealed until
the case settled in 1986 (at which time they were returned to Scientolgy), but
Gerry dealt a crushing blow to LRH’s credibility during that trial. Needless to
say, Gerry Armstrong became one of Scientology’s most hated enemies from that
time on.

Then in the summer of 1984, Gerry testified in a child custody case in London,
the Latey case, which also resulted in a devastating decision against
Scientology. So DM was determined to discredit Gerry so that he would be useless
in any future litigation.

DM ordered an intelligence sting operation against Gerry. Gene Ingram got an
LAPD officer, Phillip Rodriguez, to sign off on a bogus authorization to
wiretap or videotape Gerry secretly. It was not actually authorized by the LAPD
and Rodriguez later got in trouble for it. Then Mike Rinder and Dave Kluge (one
of OSA’s intelligence operatives at the time) both set up meetings with Gerry
Armstrong, pretending to be disaffected Scientologists who were considering
going to the authoritites with incriminating information about the church.
Mike’s role was important because he was a high-level management staff member
whom Gerry knew very well. He met with Gerry and basically said he was extremely
dissatisfied with the way the church was being run and wondered if Gerry could
hook him up with anyone in the IRS or FBI. Gerry had, in fact, been contacted by
investigators from the IRS Criminal Investigation Division, because at that time
the IRS was seriously investigating LRH and Scientology for criminal fraud. So
Gerry gave Mike the names of the agents he had spoken to.

But DM wanted more than this. DM wanted evidence that Gerry was a paid informant
of the IRS, because this would show the judge that Gerry’s testimony was
tainted. The only problem was, Gerry wasn’t a paid informant. So no matter how
Rinder and Kluge asked their questions, they couldn’t get Gerry on videotape
saying he was being paid to attack the church. Rinder and Kluge asked him all
kinds of leading questions, trying in every way possible to get Gerry to say
what they had been ordered to get him to say. But to no avail.

So DM called me in and ordered me to edit the transcripts of the videotapes to
make it look like Gerry was admitting to being a paid informant, even though he
never had admitted any such thing. I was to edit out Rinder’s and Kluge’s
leading questions so it looked like Gerry was volunteering information, when in
fact all he was really doing was answering a hypothetical question that had been
posed to him.

I went through the transcripts and pulled the "best" parts I could find, doing
my best to comply with DM’s orders to make Gerry look like a paid informant.
Privately I thought it was obvious, even after the editing, that Gerry was being
set up, but I dutifully turned in my doctored transcript to DM, who then turned
it over to Ted Horner, a Gold staff member in charge of film editing, to use my
edited transcript to do the final edit on the videotapes.

Then I went back to editing FREEDOM Magazine and my other normal duties and
thought no more about it.

One night about a month later I was called over to the OSA Int conference room
along with several other key OSA US staff. DM and Norman were both there,
looking extremely morose. DM told us that they had taken the videotape into
court and demanded to show it to the judge, saying it would prove conclusively
that Gerry Armstrong was a paid liar. The judge agreed to see the videotape in
camera (meaning in his chambers, not in open court). But the judge did not have
the reaction DM and the others had expected. After seeing the videotape, the
judge was enraged and told the Scientologists, "I have heard about these dirty
tactics that you use against your perceived enemies, but now that I have seen it
for myself I think you are much, much worse than I had ever imagined!" And
kicked them out of his chambers.

Now, you have to understand that in Scientology the "wilful suspension of
disbelief" is a way of life, so much so that no one, from DM on down, ever
admits for even a moment that everything that happens in there is nothing more
than play-acting. Everyone is so good at it that they fool themselves into
thinking they really believe what they’re pretending.

So it was with the GA videotapes. When DM ordered me to doctor the tapes he
never for a moment acted like he actually knew that he was ordering me to doctor
them. With a straight face he ordered me to edit the tapes to take out all the
irrelevant bits so it would be a concise record of Gerry’s confession that he
was an informant. And when I edited them that was truly what I told myself I was
doing. Everyone joined in the delusion that we were simply tightening up the
videotape.

And when DM told us about the judge’s reaction, he managed to sound absolutely
convinced that the reason the judge had reacted that way was that the judge was
biased against Scientology. DM put on a very convincing show of being totally
outraged at the judge’s reaction. Now, looking back on the experience, I think
it is possible that DM really is that deluded. I also think it’s entirely
possible that DM and the others at the very top know exactly what they are doing
and are simply manipulating all of the lower level staff into doing their dirty
work for them. To this day I’m not really sure which it is.

I know that for myself, there was a part of me that wasn’t surprised at all at
the judge’s reaction. In fact, there was a part of me that, even that night as I
listened to DM’s performance, wondered it he was really that delusional.

But that part of me was buried deep beneath my Scientology persona. Certainly I
would never have voiced such thoughts. I just wanted to do what I was ordered to
do as quickly as possible so I could get some sleep and have maybe a few minutes
of privacy. That was all I cared about back then.

DM ordered me and the rest of the FREEDOM staff to turn the edited GA videotape
transcripts into a special edition of FREEDOM. If the judge wouldn’t listen,
then we would take the issue to the people of Portland! That was what DM said.

So Andy Lenarcic, Tom Whittle and I spent the next several days putting together
the copy for this special edition of FREEDOM. When it was completed I had to fly
up to Portland and personally present the manuscript to DM for his approval. I
stood there in his condominium watching him read, hoping he would approve it the
first time through so I wouldn’t have to fly back up with a revised version. To
my great relief, he signed off his approval and I was permitted to fly back to
Los Angeles.

I was then responsible for getting two million copies of that special edition of
FREEDOM printed and distributed to every doorstep in Portland, Oregon. Jonathan
Epstein, Finance Chief Int at the time, was the one who pulled the money out of
various corporations, including CSI, IAS, CS WUS and several other local outer
org accounts, to pay for this monstrous, ridiculous, useless project.

I doubt anyone in Portland ever read the damn special edition. I certainly
wouldn’t have if I’d found it on my doorstep. It certainly didn’t help
Scientology win the Christo case, either. When the $30 million judgment came
down DM ordered every Scientologist on the planet up to Portland for the
now-famous Religious Freedom Crusade, in which thousands of Scientologists
marched through the streets of Portland demanding that the judge reverse the
jury’s decision in the Christo case.

I have no idea what other pressure was brought to bear on that judge behind the
scenes. All I know is that DM’s strategy worked. The judge finally declared a
mistrial in the Christoffersson trial, which served to confirm for DM and
Scientologists all over the world that if you use enough force and intimidation
you can get whatever you want.


Tilman Hausherr

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Sep 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/24/98
to
In <6ue152$il$1...@news-1.news.gte.net>, sta...@gte.net (Stacy Brooks
Young) wrote:

>Then Mike Rinder and Dave Kluge (one
>of OSA’s intelligence operatives at the time) both set up meetings with Gerry
>Armstrong, pretending to be disaffected Scientologists who were considering
>going to the authoritites with incriminating information about the church.
>Mike’s role was important because he was a high-level management staff member
>whom Gerry knew very well.

I thought the plant was Dan Sherman?

>So it was with the GA videotapes. When DM ordered me to doctor the tapes he
>never for a moment acted like he actually knew that he was ordering me to doctor
>them. With a straight face he ordered me to edit the tapes to take out all the
>irrelevant bits so it would be a concise record of Gerry’s confession that he
>was an informant. And when I edited them that was truly what I told myself I was
>doing. Everyone joined in the delusion that we were simply tightening up the
>videotape.

"True is what is true for you", oh formerly deluded one.

alice_in...@my-dejanews.com

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Sep 27, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/27/98
to
In article <6ue152$il$1...@news-1.news.gte.net>,

sta...@gte.net wrote:
> (Gerry Armstrong is my friend now that we are both out of Scientology, and I
> have already told him this story. I have told him how sorry I am for my partin
> trying to destroy him when I was still an OSA staff member. I致e told several

> other people this story as well, and they have urged me to share it because it
> is such a classic illustration of how far DM and his cronies are willing to go
> to destroy their enemies.)

Stacy - since you have demonstrated your undying compassion for your
fellow man here on ars, having publicly apologized to Gerry Armstrong
for trying to destroy him, it is only fair that we look at your current
behavior and express our opinions as to whether you have twisted the
incident with Gerry Armstrong as a means of taking a cheap shot at
LRH and the church.

Firstly, concerning your moral foundation:
Question is this, "When will you apologize to Therese and the kids for
what you have done to destroy their family?" A reasonable person
could say that Bob and Therese's marriage was "fair game" for you.
You obviously knew that you would have to break them up to get what
you wanted.

And what have you done to Vaughn:
who supported you and was faithful all those years? According to his
friends, you kicked him out of the house Minton bought for you,
turning him into a 60+ year old homeless man, while chasing the
smell of Bob's money.

Now here is the crux of the matter:
How can you justify your current selfish self-centered behavior in
light of your apology for having tried to destroy Gerry Armstrong
many years ago? Are we going to hear the same thing from you when
you come to your senses in another 15 years?

Are you so morally challenged that you can't at least say you are
sorry to Vaughn and Therese and the kids now? You've made very
public statements that clearly hurt them. Will you publicly
apologize? If you had any backbone, that is what you would do.

The only decent thing to do is to end this relationship with Bob.
Take Vaughn back. I am sure he would come back in a minute.

In my opinion you have become absolutely morally bereft since
leaving the church e.g. going back on drugs, having affairs with
married men, breaking up the family of a married man and
breaking up your own. Not to mention the lies you have been
telling to cover it all up.

You have convinced yourself that this is completely normal and
acceptable behavior. It follows that while apparently unable to
keep your own ethics in, you seek to point the finger elsewhere.

Alice in Seattle

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum

Martin O'Brien

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Sep 27, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/27/98
to
On Sun, 27 Sep 1998 22:24:30 GMT, alice_in...@my-dejanews.com
wrote:

>In article <6ue152$il$1...@news-1.news.gte.net>,
> sta...@gte.net wrote:

>> (Gerry Armstrong is my friend now that we are both out of Scientology, and I
>> have already told him this story. I have told him how sorry I am for my partin

>> trying to destroy him when I was still an OSA staff member. I致e told several


>> other people this story as well, and they have urged me to share it because it
>> is such a classic illustration of how far DM and his cronies are willing to go
>> to destroy their enemies.)
>

>Stacy - since you have demonstrated your undying compassion for your
>fellow man here on ars, having publicly apologized to Gerry Armstrong
>for trying to destroy him, it is only fair that we look at your current
>behavior and express our opinions as to whether you have twisted the
>incident with Gerry Armstrong as a means of taking a cheap shot at
>LRH and the church.
>
>Firstly, concerning your moral foundation:


***SNIP big morality attack on Stacy Young***

Alice,

What does all that have to do with the criminal conduct of the
Church of Scientology?


Martin O'B

>Alice in Seattle
>
>
>
>-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
>http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum

<<Visit "No More Lies",my anti-scientology site>>
<< http://www.tiac.net/users/martyo/ >>
<< mar...@tiac.net >>

cul...@primenet.com

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Sep 27, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/27/98
to
gr...@gradyward.com (Grady Ward) wrote:

>>. Now, looking back on the experience, I think
>>it is possible that DM really is that deluded. I also think it’s entirely
>>possible that DM and the others at the very top know exactly what they are doing
>>and are simply manipulating all of the lower level staff into doing their dirty
>>work for them. To this day I’m not really sure which it is.

>After personally deposing the "Rear" Admiral, I would say that it is *both*.
>He is able to call up the appropriate persona as needed. This trick is
>not too suprising considering the cult views on past lives, what is true for
>you is true, etc.

>>mistrial in the Christoffersson trial, which served to confirm for DM and
>>Scientologists all over the world that if you use enough force and intimidation
>>you can get whatever you want.

>Which is why it is doubly important that we stand up to them NOW before they
>get even *more* dangerous.

Should we follow your lead, or would you suggest other methods?

>--
>Grady Ward gr...@gradyward.com 2F07 AD38 11D4 8493 7143 5E1C E699 2FF2
>(707) 826-7712 voice (707) 826-0360 fax http://www.gradyward.com/


*****

"The idea that one can 'push' Scientology
and get no penalty is a false one." Russell Shaw
"To punish to the fullest extent of my power anyone
misusing or degrading Scientology to harmful ends" (The
original Code of a Scientologist)

© Anti-Cult ®

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Sep 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/28/98
to
On Sun, 27 Sep 1998 22:24:30 GMT.
alice_in...@my-dejanews.com.
From: Northern Inc..
Wrote on the subject: Re: A classic example of the fair game policy at
work:

>In article <6ue152$il$1...@news-1.news.gte.net>,
> sta...@gte.net wrote:

>> (Gerry Armstrong is my friend now that we are both out of Scientology, and I
>> have already told him this story. I have told him how sorry I am for my partin

>> trying to destroy him when I was still an OSA staff member. I致e told several


>> other people this story as well, and they have urged me to share it because it
>> is such a classic illustration of how far DM and his cronies are willing to go
>> to destroy their enemies.)
>

>Stacy - since you have demonstrated your undying compassion for your
>fellow man here on ars, having publicly apologized to Gerry Armstrong
>for trying to destroy him, it is only fair that we look at your current
>behavior and express our opinions as to whether you have twisted the
>incident with Gerry Armstrong as a means of taking a cheap shot at
>LRH and the church.
>

[snip]


>Alice in Seattle
>
>
>
>-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
>http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum

So, here we have another one, just hatted by OSA to handle this NG. Let
us now compare some headers and NNTP-Posting-Hosts, with previously
known OSA agents.

Dear Alice is using: NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.206.146.43

How come that NNTP-Posting-Host looks so familiar?

Let's dig in the archive:

Path:
pepsi.tninet.se!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail
From: StevenG...@hotmail.com
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Extremism in Germany
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 21:30:47 -0600
Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <6g9eon$vde$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.206.146.44
X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Apr 06 02:30:47 1998 GMT
X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
Xref: pepsi.tninet.se alt.religion.scientology:257741
X-Agent-Group: alt.religion.scientology

Yeah, well almost.....

Path:
pepsi.tninet.se!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!news.stupi.se!netnews.com!howland.erols.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail
From: StevenG...@hotmail.com
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: CoS Sweden harrassed
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 19:23:26 -0600
Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <6gh4du$ev3$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.206.146.42
X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Apr 09 00:23:26 1998 GMT
X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
Xref: pepsi.tninet.se alt.religion.scientology:258887
X-Agent-Group: alt.religion.scientology

Not exactly, but bloody close :-)

From: ThePsyc...@hotmail.com
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Scientology Spam Websites as of 10 April 98
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:52:51 -0600
Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <6htif3$64d$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
References: <6h5t92$5...@basement.replay.com> <6h7ers$a...@netaxs.com>
<353a810f....@news.dxnet.com> <6hfsec$3...@netaxs.com>
<353f2ced...@news.newsguy.com> <hkhensonE...@netcom.com>
<353e72e6...@news.newsguy.com> <hkhensonE...@netcom.com>
<6hrf19$t3r$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <hkhensonE...@netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.206.146.44
X-Article-Creation-Date: Sat Apr 25 20:52:51 1998 GMT
X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
Path:
news2.lightlink.com!news.lightlink.com!news.bconnex.net!nac!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.idt.net!news-peer-east.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail
X-Agent-Group: alt.religion.scientology


Yeah well :-)


Anyhow, the last time an OSA agent was seen on 205.206.146.X was:

Path:
pepsi.tninet.se!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!192.108.210.10.MISMATCH!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!netnews.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!nntp.giganews.com!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail
From: rod_fl...@my-dejanews.com
Newsgroups:
alt.religion.scientology,misc.legal,comp.org.eff.talk,alt.censorship
Subject: Re: Final Order in RTC v. Ward
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:21:14 GMT
Organization: DEJA VU
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <6ue63a$t23$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
References: <360297cc...@typhoon02.rcsntx.swbell.net>
<36096397...@news.supernews.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.206.146.36
X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Sep 24 19:21:14 1998 GMT
X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x10.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client
205.206.146.36
Xref: pepsi.tninet.se alt.religion.scientology:330125 misc.legal:98936
comp.org.eff.talk:21525 alt.censorship:81472
X-Agent-Group: alt.religion.scientology

So, let me say: Hello Rod Fletcher, how come you're called Alice? Was it
a sex operation?

Bwahahahaha...........

--
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orgs say what is legal or not."

-- L. Ron Hubbard, HCOPL 4 January 1966--
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Patrick St. Jean

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Sep 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/28/98
to
Martin O'Brien <mar...@tiac.net> wrote:

> On Sun, 27 Sep 1998 22:24:30 GMT, alice_in...@my-dejanews.com
> wrote:
> ***SNIP big morality attack on Stacy Young***

> What does all that have to do with the criminal conduct of the
> Church of Scientology?

This seems to be the Standard Ostrich Tech. When confronted with
something that they can't possibly own up to, they bury their heads
in the sand and attack. Always attack, never defend.

You just don't know how many people here in Houston are on to your
corporation's schemes. Worship water fountains as false prophets as
far as I'm concerned, but lay off the heavy handed attacks on critics,
they only make you look like the evil thugs that you are.

Most ethical organization on the planet. Heh.

Pat in Houston

--
Patrick St. Jean '97 XLH 883 p...@cgmlarson.com
Programmer & Systems Administrator +1 713-977-4177 x115
Larson Software Technology http://www.cgmlarson.com

Zed

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Sep 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/28/98
to
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

alice_in...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> In article <6ue152$il$1...@news-1.news.gte.net>,
> sta...@gte.net wrote:

> > (Gerry Armstrong is my friend now that we are both out of Scientology, and I
> > have already told him this story. I have told him how sorry I am for my partin

> > trying to destroy him when I was still an OSA staff member. Ive told several


> > other people this story as well, and they have urged me to share it because it
> > is such a classic illustration of how far DM and his cronies are willing to go
> > to destroy their enemies.)
>

> Stacy - since you have demonstrated your undying compassion for your
> fellow man here on ars, having publicly apologized to Gerry Armstrong
> for trying to destroy him, it is only fair that we look at your current
> behavior and express our opinions as to whether you have twisted the
> incident with Gerry Armstrong as a means of taking a cheap shot at
> LRH and the church.
>

> Firstly, concerning your moral foundation:

> Question is this, "When will you apologize to Therese and the kids for
> what you have done to destroy their family?" A reasonable person
> could say that Bob and Therese's marriage was "fair game" for you.
> You obviously knew that you would have to break them up to get what
> you wanted.

This grows tiresome. Yes, Stacy and Bob are planning to get married.
No, I don't think that fact supports any of the bald assertions you
present here.

My main concern after I was sure Bob's announcement was real was how
Therese and RVY were doing. Unlike you, however, I decided to wait
until I could be certain if they felt "destroyed" before I launched
into a hissy fit of moral indignation. I've so far managed to glean
a few hints of their condition - RVY by his own posts, and Therese
via Bob Minton's posts and her willingness to hand over Mike
Rinder's letter to Bob. Tentative evidence suggests that both of
them are fine. The evidence presented for the Co$ side of events -
that Stacy set out to "steal" Bob from Therese and gain access to
Bob's money, quietly disposing of RVY in the process, and that the
Minton family has been destroyed by the turn of events - is,
unsurprisingly, non-existant.

I am perfectly willing to rethink my dismissal of your unproven
accusations should you actually come up with some kind of proof that
Therese, her family, or RVY aren't happy with the current situation.
Otherwise it looks to me like you're trying to pretend concern for
people who neither want nor need it as a means of getting at Stacy.
That's sick.

Zed

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jj_c...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Sep 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/28/98
to
In article <3614d261...@news.supernews.com>,

gr...@gradyward.com wrote:
>
> >
> >>Which is why it is doubly important that we stand up to them NOW before they
> >>get even *more* dangerous.
> >
> >Should we follow your lead, or would you suggest other methods?
> >
>
> Which lead is that? I think picketing is ok, but other new tactics will
> be coming into play soon. No need for anyone to follow, everyone can
> lead.


I don't know what exactly you have in mind but pretty much everything
has been tried ever since that book "Dianetics" was published in 1950,
and everything failed. Dianetics and Scientology just cannot be
stopped.

Everybody who tried to stop it failed *miserably*.

Craig

"Two wrongs don't make it right,
but they make a good excuse." Thomas Szasz

mad_b...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Sep 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/28/98
to
In article <6uo5mp$b2d$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,

jj_c...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <3614d261...@news.supernews.com>,
> gr...@gradyward.com wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >>Which is why it is doubly important that we stand up to them NOW before
they
> > >>get even *more* dangerous.
> > >
> > >Should we follow your lead, or would you suggest other methods?
> > >
> >
> > Which lead is that? I think picketing is ok, but other new tactics will
> > be coming into play soon. No need for anyone to follow, everyone can
> > lead.
>
> I don't know what exactly you have in mind but pretty much everything
> has been tried ever since that book "Dianetics" was published in 1950,
> and everything failed. Dianetics and Scientology just cannot be
> stopped.
>
> Everybody who tried to stop it failed *miserably*.
>
> Craig
>

Oh, I dunno. it's been evicted from Greece, criminally convicted in Canada,
and the NOTS are public documents in Sweden. Heber is still wanted in Spain
for jumping bail, and the secret agreement between scientology and the IRS
has been exposed.

Looks to me like scientology's death spiral is increasing. Kinda like
flushing a toilet.

Mad_Cow (the UNcensured)

Tommy

unread,
Sep 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/28/98
to
jj_c...@my-dejanews.com wrote:

> I don't know what exactly you have in mind but pretty much everything
> has been tried ever since that book "Dianetics" was published in 1950,
> and everything failed. Dianetics and Scientology just cannot be
> stopped.

They are grinding to a messy halt even as you read this.



> Everybody who tried to stop it failed *miserably*.
>
> Craig

Until the internet. Even the major network news magazines aren't afraid
of your cult anymore. Too bad.

Tommy

--
'I'm drinking lots of rum and popping pinks and greys.'
-- Hubbard, 1967 letter to his wife submitted to the court in the
Armstrong
case, authenticity unchallenged by LRH/CoS lawyers

Zane

unread,
Sep 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/28/98
to

>Alice in Seattle

Another anonymous chickenshit scientologist mudslinger. Why are you
hiding "Alice in Seattle"?

Zane - KoX, SP4, Club Nine

OSA goons are punkass fools.

DavisS

unread,
Sep 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/28/98
to

Subject: Re: A classic example of the fair game policy at work
From: alice_in...@my-dejanews.com
Date: 9/27/98 4:24 PM CST
Message-id: <6umduu$jf7$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>


Ah, the DejaNews infection vector again. The hallmark of the CO$; cheap asses.

In article <6ue152$il$1...@news-1.news.gte.net>,
sta...@gte.net wrote:
> (Gerry Armstrong is my friend now that we are both out of Scientology, and I
> have already told him this story. I have told him how sorry I am for my
partin

> trying to destroy him when I was still an OSA staff member. I致e told several


> other people this story as well, and they have urged me to share it because
it
> is such a classic illustration of how far DM and his cronies are willing to
go
> to destroy their enemies.)

Stacy - since you have demonstrated your undying compassion for your

<snip OSA Dead Agent attack>

Alice in Seattle

I know what the Office of Special Affairs does. I know that public
Scientologists are not permitted to read or post here.

You are preaching to an empty house.

And please stop apealling to the American Taliban Morality Police. Your founder
was a lying, family abusing, vicious little con artist. Your church worships
money and the pursuit of money from suckers. Your "spirituality" consists of
immense personal selfishness, arrogance, xenophobia, and gross gullibilty.

And try posting from scientology.org -- it's more honest. Stop pretending to
be a "concerned citizen".

-Davis

Tilman Hausherr

unread,
Sep 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/28/98
to
In <6umduu$jf7$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, alice_in...@my-dejanews.com
wrote:

>Alice in Seattle


Off with her head!

--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP4]
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/#cos

You really do expose your true colors with your posts, Tilman.
[mi...@crl.com]

Nick Andrew

unread,
Sep 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/29/98
to
In <6uo5mp$b2d$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com> jj_c...@my-dejanews.com writes:

>Everybody who tried to stop it failed *miserably*.

This is about the Internet, right?

Even Helena 'ho of Babble-On couldn't stop your cult being exposed on the
Internet. She failed miserably - by attracting a lot of attention to the
fraud which is $cientology.

About 75 million years ago, according to your dead leader, an evil galactic
emperor named Xenu attempted to rid his empire of overpopulation problems by
calling billions of his subjects in for income tax inspections, injecting
them with glycol, shipping them to Earth in _DC-10 space planes_ (for
heavens sake!), packing them around volcanoes and nuking the volcanoes.
The dead alien souls were captured and brainwashed and caused to infest
the bodies of $cientologists.

Your cult believes this. I know because this description, in the own
words of your dead leader, was posted to a.r.s. through my news server
and Helena 'ho of Babble-On threatened to sue me unless I cancelled the
article.

A majorly expensive part of $cientology deals with attempting to exorcise
these nonexistent space cooties. Your cult hides this until the mark is
sufficiently brainwashed to accept anything Hubbard wrote as raw truth.

Nick.
--
Zeta Internet SP4 Fax: +61-2-9233-6545 Voice: 9231-9400
G.P.O. Box 3400, Sydney NSW 1043 http://www.zeta.org.au/

tirn...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Sep 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/29/98
to
In article <6uo5mp$b2d$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
jj_c...@my-dejanews.com wrote:

>
> I don't know what exactly you have in mind but pretty much everything
> has been tried ever since that book "Dianetics" was published in 1950,
> and everything failed. Dianetics and Scientology just cannot be
> stopped.

ROFLMAO!!
"this knaves tongue begins to double"

You arrogate to yourself a huuuuggggggeeeeee enemy, an almighty enemy and
then boast that this "enemy" hasn't stopped your little organization yet. The
trouble is that there has been no big "enemy" just people upset with the
chicanery and doubledealing that Hubbard pulled together to call a
"religion". In order to justify the small and lackluster "expansion" visions
of these terrible "monsters" are conjured up to explain away the failings.
The only "thing" stopping scinetology and dianetics is its unworkability.
No-one has to do very much to "stop" it - it does so itself every time. So
to make your little organization look heroic you invent big opponents that in
some mysterious way are 'out to get you" and then - lo and behold - having
withstood those imaginary enemies - you now boast.

Pathetic.

Scientology has been around, what, 45 years or so? How many people does it
have now who are active, taking services or working in the so called Church?
If I said 100,000 to 150,000 I would be being generous beyond belief. And
that represents the sum total of your "success".

One more "success" like that and you will be a very small footnote in an
encyclopedia of UFO Cults in the USA in the latter half of the Twentieth
Century.

>
> Everybody who tried to stop it failed *miserably*.

Yeah all those untold thousands upon thousands of SPs working against the
workable and succesful tech eh? When your "wins" are composed of "wogs"
saying nice things about you???

Oh you poor demented fool.

>
> Craig
Long on words, short on anything original.


--
Where warriors go..

Gregg Hagglund

unread,
Sep 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/29/98
to
In article <6uo5mp$b2d$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, jj_c...@my-dejanews.com wrote:

>In article <3614d261...@news.supernews.com>,
> gr...@gradyward.com wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >>Which is why it is doubly important that we stand up to them NOW
before they
>> >>get even *more* dangerous.
>> >
>> >Should we follow your lead, or would you suggest other methods?
>> >
>>
>> Which lead is that? I think picketing is ok, but other new tactics will
>> be coming into play soon. No need for anyone to follow, everyone can
>> lead.
>
>

>I don't know what exactly you have in mind but pretty much everything
>has been tried ever since that book "Dianetics" was published in 1950,
>and everything failed. Dianetics and Scientology just cannot be
>stopped.
>

>Everybody who tried to stop it failed *miserably*.


Seems to me Scientology is *very* busy stopping ~itself~.

You are stuck with the script 'craig' and it was written in the 50s and 60s.
An ever broadening spectrum of the population is being informed, almost
daily now of the intricacies and techniques of your scam.
And the foot traffic at least is being well informed as are college campuses,
PTAs, Church groups (real honest to God Church Groups, that is<grin>)
And of course on the Net too.
The media is getting bolder and bolder. Almost *anyone* outside the
Criminal Business of the Co$ who looks in and has openly available information
about the Business Practices and Operating Doctrines of the Co$ either laughs
or feels ill.
Informed people just don't join the Co$. Period.
And that is why the Co$ will end.
No bodies in the shop.
There will come a day when those with the power to do so in the Co$
will decide to cut and run with the money and it will be all over.

It is an absolute inevitablility because the Co$ is , ~expending~, ~expending~,
~expending~, and ~expending~.

>
>Craig

<snicker>
See ya in CW, 'craig'.

---
["You know, people die if they criticize scientology -
I should take care if I were you."
-Marcus Nyman, OSA (former GO), $cio-org, Stockholm, Sweden.]

Gregg Hagglund SP5
Rendered Net Invisible to
Participating Victims of Co$.

Toronto Picket Reports now at:
<http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/8412/>


Frank Copeland

unread,
Sep 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/29/98
to
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

alice_in...@my-dejanews.com <alice_in...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:

>NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.206.146.43

This resolves to pm1-14.london.webgate.net. "Alice" is in Seattle? I think
not.

[Snip anonymous Black PR, nothing we haven't all seen before]

- --
Home Page: <URL:http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fjc/>
Not the Scientology Home Page: <URL:http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fjc/scn/>

Keep it in Usenet. E-mail replies and 'courtesy' copies are not welcome.
If you're selling, I ain't buying.

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quizara...@my-dejanews.com

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Sep 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/29/98
to
In article <366ed4e9....@news.snafu.de>,

Actually, if you rearrange the letters in Alice and add an 'r' you get
clAi'r'e who also posted from Seattle. Any connection? -- "Those who hunger
after wisdom often seek it in the highest heights, or profound depths" from
"Infinity's Shore" by David Brin

jj_c...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Sep 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/30/98
to
In article <6uoa4m$s3g$1...@gidora.zeta.org.au>,
ni...@zeta.org.au (Nick Andrew) wrote:

> In <6uo5mp$b2d$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com> jj_c...@my-dejanews.com writes:
>
> >Everybody who tried to stop it failed *miserably*.
>
> This is about the Internet, right?

It's meant in a broader sense and not limited to the Internet.

And I think you cannot stop Scientology simply because there's
too much truth in it.

Craig

"Two wrongs don't make it right,
but they make a good excuse." Thomas Szasz

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----

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