German TV journalists Peter Reichelt and Ina Brockmann press "FALSE IMPRISONMENT", "EXTORTIONATE KIDNAPPINGS", a.o. charges against Scientology high official Ken Hoden near Hemet on the way to the Scientology concentration camp "Happy Valley"
reichelt
STATEMENT to the ARS
referring the "FALSE IMPRISONMENT et altera" - Case against Ken Hoden and
the Scientology organisation "Gold" in charge of David MISCAVIGE
on April 18, 1998
by Peter Reichelt
TV journalist and author of the book "Helnwein and Scientology - An
organisation and its secret service" publ. June 1997
from Mannheim, Germany
On March 12, 1998 journalist Susan Thurston from the US newspaper "The
Press-Enterprise" reported that Scientologists "Ken Hoden, 51, Francois
Dejust, 35, Scientology school security guard Uwe Stuckengrock, 34 from
Germany and church employee Henry Batterton, 39 have been arrested on false
imprisonment charges. A report will be turned over to the Riverside County
district attorney's office."
On March 9, 1998 the journalist Ina Brockmann and me rented at around 11 am
a helicopter to seek for the highly secret Scientology children/adult
prisoner camp called "HAPPY VALLEY". Finally, with the help of a former
inmate of the RPF camp, we found it in a valley surrounded by high hills in
the San Jacinto mountains. We made video tapings of adults and children
walking within the camp compound. They tried to hide themselves behind
houses. Some had black, some white and light-blue dresses on. Near the
entrance on the right side is a large watch-tower. The entrance gate looked
very similar to the entrance gate of the NAZI concentration camp AUSCHWITZ.
A terrible atmosphere to see that. Dogs secured the place. Around the
compound is a big fence. You see, that there is current traffic along the
fence by motor cycles and jeeps, like the area in front of the former East
German wall. We saw enough. Poor people inside and no way out!
Same day, afternoon. We drove in the mountains by car to get to "Happy
Valley" on the road. We were four persons in the car. Ina and me, also our
US- TV cameraman Steve and the former L.A. police sergeant Jack as a
witness. Four cars followed us on our way to the prison camp. One mile
before we reached the camp in the mountain desert, short after a curve, the
public street was blocked by a yellow bulldozer, with a man in darkblue
Scientology uniform sitting on. 2 cars stood behind the bulldozer. We tried
to turn around to go back, but our way out was blocked by a white van and
other cars. Several men, altogether around 8, left their cars walking and
running to us and screaming "put your cameras down, you are arrested". It
was Ken HODEN, who arrested us, the General Manager of "Golden Era
Productions", the right hand of Scientology world-leader DAVID MISCAVIGE.
We tried to leave but it was impossible, the road was completely blocked,
by cars and bodies of Scientology security. They have been armed, one man
had the whole time his hand on a gun. We knew, he would use it if we try to
escape. We tried to call the police by our handyphone, but in the mountains
it did not work. Hoden approached me several times. he told me that he
would let us go, if I (Reichelt) would give him our video material of our
helicopter trip in the morning. I denied and hided our material in our car.
Hoden seemed not to really know what finally to do with us. We all told him
and his staff that we are held at that place against our will and that he
must let us go, but he only laughed and turned around. I taped a lot with
my Digital camera from inside our car and my cameraman from outside with
his Betacam camera. So we have the whole case live on tape! After more than
2 hours (!) finally the Sheriff and his deputy arrived with two cars to
free us. After viewing the taped material the Sheriff arrested Ken Hoden
and 3 other Scientologists, 4 suspects left the scene before the police
arrived, for "false imprisonment" charges.
To the ARS: URGENT
The Riverside District Attorney Mrs. FREER is now investigating the case
and the prison camp "Happy Valley" for more than 4 weeks. She is very
interested to get information from ARS what has already happened in "Happy
Valley", are children abused within the camp, are they held against their
will, to talk to former inmates, to get information about "Gold", who is in
charge for what, and to get detailed information of all kind, history
within Scientology, about the following suspects in that case to press
charges:
1. HODEN, Kenneth Joseph - Residence Address: 19625 Hwy 79, Gilman Hot
Springs
2. STUCKENBROCK, Uwe Frederick
3. DE JUST, Francois
4. BATTERTON, Henry Frank
This is very urgent because the DA has to made a decision in that case very
soon.
Please give informations to the ARS, to me direct or to the DA Freer direct
by Fax. Her Fax number in Riverside, California is:
FAX 1 - 909 - 275 - 5682 Refer File Number DR 980 68 039 ./.
Ken Hoden et altera
To the MEDIA
Right now we are right in the middle of the production stage of our 60 to
90 minutes TV documentation about "Scientology under the leadership of
David Miscavige" for German TV. We are interested in a co-production with
an US Network like ABC, NBC or others for the US. Inquiries are very
welcome. Please contact:
Brockmann and Reichelt TV Production GmbH
Peter Reichelt
Phone: 011 - 49 - 621 - 89 76 46
Fax. 011 - 49 - 621 - 89 62 61
END OF STATEMENT ______
reichelt
reichelt <reich...@msn.com> schrieb im Beitrag
<01bd6ac7$998665c0$LocalHost@default>...
reichelt
reichelt
StveJ
"reichelt" <reich...@msn.com> blathers:
>This is very urgent because the DA has to made a
>decision in that case very soon.
Yes; given the 'facts' as you presented them, it is obvious why it would
take 4 weeks for a DA to make a decision.
And, of course, since your tapes are in the DAs hands as part of the
criminal investigation, 'Happy Valley' is now closed up tighter than
the psychiatric hospitals that the Scientologists closed down in Australia,
Germany, Italy, etc.
Your bleeting reminds me that Free Speach doesn't kill or do any
harm...none that you can accept responsibility for anyway.
Or as Tilman is wont to say:
"The Berlin police will now try to find
other disciplinary measures."
Steve
reichelt
© Anti-Cult ®
On Sat, 18 Apr 1998 09:47:23 -0700.
"reichelt" <reich...@msn.com>.
From: PSA GmbH.
Wrote on the subject: Re: German TV journalists Peter Reichelt and Ina
Brockmann press "FALSE IMPRISONMENT", "EXTORTIONATE KIDNAPPINGS", a.o.
charges against Scientology high official Ken Hoden near Hemet on the
way to the Scientology concentration camp "Happy Valley":
>
>
>reichelt <reich...@msn.com> schrieb im Beitrag
><01bd6ac7$998665c0$LocalHost@default>...
>> STATEMENT to the ARS
>> referring the "FALSE IMPRISONMENT et altera" - Case against Ken Hoden and
>> the Scientology organisation "Gold" in charge of David MISCAVIGE
>> on April 18, 1998
>> by Peter Reichelt
>> TV journalist and author of the book "Helnwein and Scientology - An
>> organisation and its secret service" publ. June 1997
>> from Mannheim, Germany
[snip]
[posted to a.r.s/mailed to "reichelt" <reich...@msn.com>]
Have anyone seen the original message on their servers? I only got 2 re
from the same person that obviously sent the original message.
I would like to have the original message,so that I can web it at my
site. I also want contact with these people to discuss the eventual
making of some RealVideo files of certain parts of their experience
regarding the FALSE IMPRISONMENT", "EXTORTIONATE KIDNAPPINGS". I would
like to web those too, on my multimedia page at
http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/multimed/index.htm
IMO, this cult must be taken care of worldwide, and if Europe is the
only continent willing to do that, so be it...
Now my dear Scientologists, you may start calling me an Agent for
Germany too :-)
------------------------------------------------------------------
***** Body thetans? We don't need no stinking Body Thetans! ******
********* http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/index.htm ***********
*** Public PGP key: http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/pgp.htm ***
****** The.Galacti...@ThePentagon.com (Anti-Cult) *******
------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ One drop of drops in the river of life ~
~ Has not the power to float by itself ~
~ But there's this demand on every drop: ~
~ Help keep the other ones up ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike O'Connor
In article <199804181651...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
st...@aol.com (StveJ) wrote:
[...]
> , 'Happy Valley' is now closed up tighter than
[...]
How do you know this? And, are you saying it is closed, or that its
security has merely been tightened? Thanks! -Mike
reichelt
STATEMENT to the ARS
referring the "FALSE IMPRISONMENT et altera" - Case against Ken Hoden and
the Scientology organisation "Gold" in charge of David MISCAVIGE
on April 18, 1998
by Peter Reichelt
TV journalist and author of the book "Helnwein and Scientology - An
organisation and its secret service" publ. June 1997
from Mannheim, Germany
FAX 1 - 909 - 275 - 5682 Refer File Number DR 980 68 039 ./.
Bob, just a wog
On Sat, 18 Apr 1998 20:21:34 +0200, The.Galacti...@ThePentagon.com (©
Anti-Cult ®) wrote:
snip
:
:Have anyone seen the original message on their servers? I only got 2 re
:from the same person that obviously sent the original message.
:
:I would like to have the original message,so that I can web it at my
:site.
For Anti Cult,
I have emailed the original to you. So far, I have received 1 original and 4
're:' copies on my news server.
For Peter,
Have you contacted the media about this?
--
-Bob, just a WOG.
__
Shortly after OSA operative, Justin, babble-spammed A.R.S.,
Pope Charles of SubGenius Pope Of Houston was heard to say,
"Justin, you are but a skidmark in the underwear of life."
__
Before a trip up the *Bridge*, visit www.xenu.net
__
Coming soon to the WWW, "Wog World",
Wogs At Cause with the cult of $cientology.
Ted Mayett (KOX)
On Sat, 18 Apr 1998 05:51:24 -0700, "reichelt" <reich...@msn.com>
wrote:
>We tried to leave but it was impossible, the road was completely blocked,
>by cars and bodies of Scientology security. They have been armed, one man
>had the whole time his hand on a gun. We knew, he would use it if we try to
>escape.
Welcome to the Church of Scientology.
Are you internet-monkeys ashamed by this?
What does it take already?
--
Ted Mayett OT 1.1
http://xenu.phys.uit.no/cgi-bin/globloc.cgi
Tilman Hausherr
In <01bd6afb$cfeb93e0$294c19c2@default>, "reichelt"
<reich...@msn.com> wrote:
>entrance on the right side is a large watch-tower. The entrance gate looked
>very similar to the entrance gate of the NAZI concentration camp AUSCHWITZ.
>A terrible atmosphere to see that. Dogs secured the place. Around the
>compound is a big fence. You see, that there is current traffic along the
>fence by motor cycles and jeeps, like the area in front of the former East
I was there with two people and the place was basically desert. Is
"happy valley" and the RPF at the same location as the alleged "film
studios" (that made only one film since they exist: "orientation").
Garry Scarff
During the picket weekend, Bob Minton, Stacy Young and I went to Happy
Valley. One of their illegal measures has been to plant a steel barrier
across a public road claiming it to be "private property". The problem
there, and Scientology has thoroughly enjoyed manipulating the hell out
of this, is that they might be correct, because it seems the police &
county officials aren't sure whether it is or not. When I encountered
the Scientology guard who put a lock and chain on the barrier to keep
cars from coming through, he told me it didn't matter what the sheriffs
department thought..as far as they were concerned, it was their property
and that ends the argument.
In addition to keeping our car out, it prevented an elderly couple who
lived in the area for years from going in. The couple said they always
used to drive down the road (Castille Canyon Rd) to Happy Valley without
problems and it's the first time they'd been blocked. Also, a van of
Indians from the Svoboda Indian Reservation nearby were blocked and not
happy about it.
Thanks to some binoculars, we could see alot of movement from people
dressed in black running on the premises. With the ever-present noise
from the land buggies the Scieno guards were driving, it was very clear
that they were enturbulated. I was determined to go to Happy Valley and
climbed over the barrier and began walking to Happy Valley but was
called back by a very stern Stacy Young.
Garry Scarff
reichelt wrote:
>
> STATEMENT to the ARS
> referring the "FALSE IMPRISONMENT et altera" - Case against Ken Hoden and
> the Scientology organisation "Gold" in charge of David MISCAVIGE
> on April 18, 1998
> by Peter Reichelt
(snip)
> To the ARS: URGENT
> The Riverside District Attorney Mrs. FREER is now investigating the case
> and the prison camp "Happy Valley" for more than 4 weeks. She is very
> interested to get information from ARS what has already happened in "Happy Valley", are children abused within the camp, are they held against their will, to talk to former inmates, to get information about "Gold", who is in charge for what, and to get detailed information of all kind, history within Scientology
> This is very urgent because the DA has to made a decision in that case very
> soon.
> Please give informations to the ARS, to me direct or to the DA Freer direct
> by Fax. Her Fax number in Riverside, California is:
> FAX 1 - 909 - 275 - 5682 Refer File Number DR 980 68 039
And don't give up trying to FAX her. Their fax machines have been
working overtime with numerous faxes being dumped on them by Scientology
attorneys, not to mentioned visited in person frequently.
Garry Scarff
Tilman Hausherr wrote:
>
> In <01bd6afb$cfeb93e0$294c19c2@default>, "reichelt"
> <reich...@msn.com> wrote:
>
> >very similar to the entrance gate of the NAZI concentration camp AUSCHWITZ.
> >A terrible atmosphere to see that. Dogs secured the place. Around the
> >compound is a big fence. You see, that there is current traffic along the
> >fence by motor cycles and jeeps, like the area in front of the former East
>
> "happy valley" and the RPF at the same location as the alleged "film
> studios" (that made only one film since they exist: "orientation").
No, Happy Valley is at the end, persay, of Castille Canyon Road about
6-7 miles away. I say "persay" because if you drove through the gates
of Scientology's RPF camp on the same road, it would take you through
the camp and on towards Palm Springs. Unlike the film studios, the
County Road runs through alleged private property owned by Scientology.
© Anti-Cult ®
On Sat, 18 Apr 1998 19:22:26 GMT.
B...@Not.Here.com (Bob, just a wog).
From: -Wog World, a California 501(c)(3) Public Benefit Corporation.
Wrote on the subject: Re: German TV journalists Peter Reichelt and Ina
Brockmann press "FALSE IMPRISONMENT", "EXTORTIONATE KIDNAPPINGS", a.o.
charges against Scientology high official Ken Hoden near Hemet on the
way to the Scientology concentration camp "Happy Valley":
>On Sat, 18 Apr 1998 20:21:34 +0200, The.Galacti...@ThePentagon.com (©
>Anti-Cult ®) wrote:
>
>snip
>:
>:Have anyone seen the original message on their servers? I only got 2 re
>:from the same person that obviously sent the original message.
>:
>:I would like to have the original message,so that I can web it at my
>:site.
>
>For Anti Cult,
>I have emailed the original to you. So far, I have received 1 original and 4
>'re:' copies on my news server.
Thanks, I got it. Now it seems as if Peter is sending a lot of articles
formatted in god knows how many different ways.
>
>For Peter,
>Have you contacted the media about this?
AFAIK, Peter is the media, or part of it at least. Let's hope he can
sort out his comm-tech.
rgonnet
Garry Scarff wrote:
>
> Mike O'Connor wrote:
> >
> > In article <199804181651...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
> > st...@aol.com (StveJ) wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> > > , 'Happy Valley' is now closed up tighter than
Happy Valley most certainly Hubbard's joke, the style of
"R245" being (they say) a joke!
> > [...]
> >
> > How do you know this? And, are you saying it is closed, or that its
> > security has merely been tightened? Thanks! -Mike
>
> During the picket weekend, Bob Minton, Stacy Young and I went to Happy
> Valley. One of their illegal measures has been to plant a steel barrier
> across a public road claiming it to be "private property". The problem
> there, and Scientology has thoroughly enjoyed manipulating the hell out
> of this, is that they might be correct, because it seems the police &
> county officials aren't sure whether it is or not. When I encountered
> the Scientology guard who put a lock and chain on the barrier to keep
> cars from coming through, he told me it didn't matter what the sheriffs
> department thought..as far as they were concerned, it was their property
> and that ends the argument.
In France; they 'd get some thousands policemen going on
this and investigating: it really can't happen like this.
Rather, we have also a better system: if someone has been
allowed to pass through another's property for 30 years, the
proprietor cannot then ask the orad or passage to be closed,
for whatever reason (exceptions could be only high security
measures and suchj).
>
> In addition to keeping our car out, it prevented an elderly couple who
> lived in the area for years from going in.
See above: impossible to apply in France: those elderly
persons would get a judgement and police applying it very
soon!
>
> Thanks to some binoculars, we could see alot of movement from people
> dressed in black
in black? really? are they still RPFers there?
running on the premises. With the ever-present noise
> from the land buggies the Scieno guards were driving, it was very clear
> that they were enturbulated. I was determined to go to Happy Valley and
> climbed over the barrier and began walking to Happy Valley but was
> called back by a very stern Stacy Young.
I understand her: they could have gotten you closed or even
killed , for I don't know they have gotten water colts!
Roger
rgonnet
Garry Scarff wrote:
>
> Tilman Hausherr wrote:
> >
> > In <01bd6afb$cfeb93e0$294c19c2@default>, "reichelt"
> > <reich...@msn.com> wrote:
> >
> > >very similar to the entrance gate of the NAZI concentration camp AUSCHWITZ.
> > >A terrible atmosphere to see that. Dogs secured the place. Around the
> > >compound is a big fence. You see, that there is current traffic along the
> > >fence by motor cycles and jeeps, like the area in front of the former East
> >
> > "happy valley" and the RPF at the same location as the alleged "film
> > studios" (that made only one film since they exist: "orientation").
>
> No, Happy Valley is at the end, persay, of Castille Canyon Road about
> 6-7 miles away. I say "persay" because if you drove through the gates
> of Scientology's RPF camp on the same road, it would take you through
> the camp and on towards Palm Springs. Unlike the film studios, the
> County Road runs through alleged private property owned by Scientology.
The differences of locations are well indicated in the
various 1994 affidavits of Tabayoyons, RVY, SBY and Fishman.
Roger
Evan Jones
Oh boy - that portrayal of the PRF by Peter Reichelt must reflect the
scene in his own mind. I can well imagine how dark and sinister he
would describe a MacDonald restaurant.
Here is the correct data about the RPF:
The Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF) is a rehabilitation program
offered only to members of the Sea Organization -- a religious order
consisting of full-time staff members who have signed a pledge of
eternal service to Scientology and its goals. Sea Organization staff
who would otherwise be subject to dismissal for serious and/or
continuous ecclesiastical violations are give the chance to do the
the RPF program. Personnel "burn out" is not new to organizations,
but the concept of complete rehabilitation is.
Those participating in the RPF both study and receive religious
counseling on a daily basis to address areas of difficulty in their
personal lives.
Along with study and auditing, members of the RPF work eight hours per
day as a team on tasks which improve the facilities of the Church by
which they are employed and improve teamwork and coordination among
the participants. The work allows the individual to regain confidence
in himself and the pride of accomplishment.
The benefits to be obtained from the RPF are immense, as the following
testimonies show. I have deleted the names:
"Not only am I regaining seemingly lost verve and enthusiasm and
ability to do what I do in my career, I am finding myself with new
abilities and a capacity for care I never had before. So instead of
suffering from usual fruits of such times in life -- the uncertainty
and discomfort -- I'm finding myself indomitable in conquering what
to many in everyday life is an irreparable disaster."
...
"I look back on this program as the watershed of my life.
"I now have a stable and very happy marriage of 14 years rather than
the ruined mess I was making of it. I have been in my current position
for more than 6 years now. I am relied upon by many people, I am
trusted and I have many close friends. Most of all, I have me. I know
who I am and where I am going and I am living a very happy and
satisfied life... I cannot thank LRH enough for his compassion in
establishing the RPF program."
....
"I have been a member of the Rehabilitation Project Force for over one
month now and wanted to express not only my appreciation for the
system, but also the gains from doing this program. Since being here I
have learned how valuable help from your friends really is, and have
realized how valuable I can be, once again. I have regained
self-confidence that I had once lost, and pride that I thought only
'time would heal.' My own integrity as an individual has risen too,
and I am more aware of myself in all respects."
....
The RPF program was a Sea Organization program that helped me
immensely. I received hundreds of hours of spiritual counseling on
the program and gave hundreds of hours of the same counseling. My
health greatly improved. I lost about twenty pounds of overweightness
and never felt better. I was able to help the Church build a new
management building in Los Angeles and the Celebrity Centre in Los
Angeles which are now two landmark buildings in Los Angeles. My
communication with my family also increased by leaps and
bounds and has continued to improve since doing the program. I
attained the ability to freely do as I chose in life and to this day
the program brings back only the best of memories.
...
"Doing the RPF program brought me from the brink of death back to
life.,.
it was not always easy to come to grips with my own shortcomings, but
the RPF program is so laid out, gradiently, that you are able to
confront what you've done wrong so you can take responsibility for it
and then handle it... part of the program was for me to help another
get better. It was incredibly wonderful to get myself sorted out once
and for all, but even that dimmed in comparison to being able to help
another human being. You kind of realize that you don't have to be
the effect of your own problems, that sometimes your own problems pale
compared to those of others. There is a lot of joy in helping someone
else.
"I will never need to do the RPF program again, but I would do it
again without a moment's hesitation because of what it gave me. It
gave me back myself, my life and the knowledge that I could contribute
to the rest of the human race."
The above are some samplings of the successes reported from the RPF.
Evan Jones
On Sat, 18 Apr 1998 05:51:24 -0700, "reichelt" <reich...@msn.com>
wrote:
>STATEMENT to the ARS
Tilman Hausherr
In <353bc221...@news.inetworld.net>, ejo...@inetworld.net (Evan
Jones) wrote:
>The benefits to be obtained from the RPF are immense
I'm sure Reichelt videotaped lots of happy people. Hey, it's called
"happy valley".
But then, why did the scientology bigotz want his tape?
--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP4]
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/#cos
Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
Find broken links on your web site: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/xenulink.html
Annoy scientology by buying books: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/bookstore.html
Garry Scarff
Evan Jones wrote:
>
> Oh boy - that portrayal of the PRF by Peter Reichelt must reflect the
> scene in his own mind. I can well imagine how dark and sinister he
> would describe a MacDonald restaurant.
>
> Here is the correct data about the RPF:
>
> The Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF) is a rehabilitation program
> offered only to members of the Sea Organization -- a religious order
> consisting of full-time staff members who have signed a pledge of
> eternal service to Scientology and its goals.
Same old official Scientology-speak. Have you ever considered posting
something using your own brain cells, stupid, or do you just naturally
post propaganda to appease that hard-on that you peers won't allow you
to satisfy? Peter is on the money which is why you morons are so hard
pressed to fight his efforts to report the truth about Scientology.
BTW, Evan, you're losing big. :)
Garry Scarff
Garry Scarff
Tilman Hausherr wrote:
>
> In <353bc221...@news.inetworld.net>, ejo...@inetworld.net (Evan
> Jones) wrote:
>
> >The benefits to be obtained from the RPF are immense
>
> I'm sure Reichelt videotaped lots of happy people. Hey, it's called
> "happy valley".
>
> But then, why did the scientology bigotz want his tape?
>
> --
> Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP4]
> til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/#cos
And I'm sure the "church" replenished his three pack supply of
cigarettes which he nervously smoked away while arresting Peter and Ina,
and getting arrested in the process.
EldonB123
>> The Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF) is a rehabilitation program offered
only to members of the Sea Organization -- a religious order consisting of
full-time staff members who have signed a pledge of eternal service to
Scientology and its goals.
OFFERED? OFFERED? This is Heber Jentzch doublespeak right of the Scieno web
site, stupid! And what if they do not accept? Oh, then they go into the RPF's
RPF. Right? But the are ORDERED there, aren't they? And kept in chains, right?
You lying bastard.
Eldo...@aol.com
Pimoty
Evan Jones forgot to include the true data when he said
Here is the correct data about the RPF:>>
For instance;
There was plenty to encourage me to leave in 1983: the introduction of the
"Finance Police", "Finance Dictator" and other fascistic sounding and
looking people. The prices skyrocketed from 60 British pounds per hour to
over 120, to 160 per hour, plus VAT of course. By contrast the Sea
Organisation crew were getting dormitory accommodation, plus average 3-4
pounds per week pocket money, out of which we were supposed to buy our
uniforms and books. Staff got no holiday pay, no National Insurance or
pension contributions credited, and any training and counselling whilst on
staff was billed such as to be payable if they left (not legally enforceable
though, it would be peony if it were). Additionally, I was seeing old staff
turfed out onto the street, to eke out their remaining days alone and on
state welfare.
In a state of great confusion I sneaked away, came back again 2 weeks
later and suffered several days on their brainwashing "Rehabilitation
Project Force" or RPF, then left again, this time for good. It makes me
laugh how, much later on when Scientology published a Suppressive Person
declare on me, they peevishly grumbled how I kept on leaving! I came back
again to pick up personal effects, and cheerfully chat still with
organisation staff.
For those who wonder about the RPF being tantamount to brainwashing, how
about sleep deprivation with 6 hours maximum allowed, allowed to speak with
only 1 person at all (the MAA), 15 minute meal break maximums eating
left-over food, usually just rice or potatoes. Work was petty and grinding;
chipping the crust off cooker parts or painting stones. The attitude was
that you are WRONG, and you must obey all orders instantly and without
question. Counselling was confessionals, rehab work was guilt trips, and
success stories were required that state how good this all is!
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/mpoulter/sods.html
or Jon Atack
The Rehabilitation Project Force
44. In 1973, Hubbard introduced the "Rehabilitation Project Force" ("RPF")
(JCA-96). Disobedient Sea Org members have been assigned to the RPF from that
time. The RPF replaced the "Rehabilitation Unit" (JCA-96) of which Hubbard said
"The unit is worked hard during the day on a rigorous schedule...". This unit
had replaced the "Mud Box Brigade" - "persons appointed to clean mud boxes,
fuel lines, water lines, bilges, etc." (JCA-97). Few of the internal memoranda
which apply to the RPF
are publicly available. All are relevant to litigation, as they show the true
character of Scientology and the inhuman pressures brought to bear upon Sea Org
members. The designations for RPF material are "Executive Directive 965 Flag
'RPF Reinstated'" and all additions and "Flag Order 3434" and all additions
(there are at least 56 memoranda in this series, numbered FO 3434-1 to FO
3434-56).
45. The RPF is virtually a labour and thought reform camp. embers are
forbidden communication with any but their "bosun" (the head of the RPF); they
have to comply immediately with any order; they sleep even shorter hours than
other staff; they eat even poorer food than other staff (often rice, beans and
porridge for weeks. For some time in Florida, "RPFers" were fed left-over food)
(JCA-98); they sleep in "pig's berthing", i.e. without beds (JCA-99, JCA-100);
they do hard labour and menial tasks, including toilet and sewer cleaning; they
are rarely permitted time off; they receive one quarter of the already derisory
pay of other staff (JCA-101); and they have to write down detailed
"confessions", which may be published by the organization (JCA-102, JCA-103).
Finally, an RPF sentence is open-ended and may last for as much as four years.
Failure to comply leads to posting to the "RPFers RPF", which according to
witnesses has consisted of false imprisonment. False imprisonment or
"isolation" is a part of the "technology" of Scientology (JCA-104, JCA-105).
There are hundreds of former members who suffered the RPF.
JCA-96. Hubbard, Modern Management Technology Defined, Church of Scientology of
California,
1976, defninitions of "Rehabilitation Project Force" and "rehabilitation unit".
JCA-97. as exhibit 96, definition of "Mud Box Brigade".
JCA-98. City of Clearwater Commission Hearings, Re: Church of Scientology, 7
May 1982, testimony
of David Ray, vol.3, pp.165-170.
JCA-99. Team Share System, Sea Org Executive Directive 3490 Int, 24 July 1986.
JCA-100. Clearwater Hearings, 7 May 1982, testimony of Casey Kelly, vol.3,
pp.51-53.
JCA-101. RPF Policy Checksheet, Flag Order 3434R-25RA, 25 July 1974.
JCA-102. RPF Graduation Requirements Checklist, Flag Order 3434RC-56, 17 March
1980.
JCA-103. Confessional Procedure, HCOB 30 November 1978, Technical Bulletins of
Dianetics and
Scientology, vol XII, Church of Scientology of California, Los Angeles, 1980
edition.
JCA-104. HCOB Introspection Rundown - additional actions, 20 February 1974,
Technical Bulletins
of Dianetics and Scientology, vol. VIII, pp.260-261, Church of Scientology of
California, Los Angeles,
1976.
JCA-105. Sea Org HCO Ethics Order, AOSHUK 2543, Confidential Board of
Investigation - Findings
and Recommendations - Isolation Watch Heidi Degro, September 1993.
© Anti-Cult ®
On Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:46:12 GMT.
ejo...@inetworld.net (Evan Jones).
From: Simply Internet, San Diego.
Wrote on the subject: Re: German TV journalists Peter Reichelt and Ina
Brockmann press "FALSE IMPRISONMENT", "EXTORTIONATE KIDNAPPINGS", a.o.
charges against Scientology high official Ken Hoden near Hemet on the
way to the Scientology concentration camp "Happy Valley":
>Oh boy - that portrayal of the PRF by Peter Reichelt must reflect the
>scene in his own mind. I can well imagine how dark and sinister he
>would describe a MacDonald restaurant.
>
PRF? Having M/u's Evan, or did you writer the acronym in the order used
in another language? French maybe?
Just you wait Evan until I can show you the video in streaming RealVideo
format. Wouldn't you just love to see your cult thugs doing the citizens
arrests? After that, nobody has to describe anything, they can all see
for themselves...
More footbullets is coming Evan. :-))
Are you interested on what site that piece will be webbed Evan?
Well, it's going to come up here:
http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/multimed/index.htm
Keep an eye on that site Evan, so you won't miss the footbullet, when it
comes online.
Cornelius Krasel
Evan Jones <ejo...@inetworld.net> wrote:
> The benefits to be obtained from the RPF are immense, as the following
> testimonies show.
---begin excerpt---
SEA ORGANIZATION
FLAG ORDER 3434RB
7 January 1974
Revised
21 August 1976
Re-Revised 30 May 1977
THE REHABILITATION PROJECT FORCE
(modifies Flag Order 3183 in regard to qualifications for the Deck
Project Force - which remains in being.) Only revisions on page 9 and
10 in italics
The Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF) is hereby brought into being in
Div 4 Area Estates Org.
To it are assigned:
1. R/Sers
2. Low OCA non-producers
3. Repeated stat crashers
4. Overt Product makers.
The Estates Project Force remains for Recruits, Products 0, 1, etc.
New Recruits and those Veterans who are not Prod 0 or who are TIPed
for Prod 1 are posted to the EPF for Products 0 and 1 as required.
IF anybody while in the EPF is found to be in one of the categories
1-4 above, he is at ONCE routed to the RPF.
If a new arrival is found to be in one of the categories 1-4 above
when he arrives and he is not returned whence he came, he is routed
straight to the RPF.
The EPF, hitherto used for the retreading of those persons who suffer
from robotism or who produce overt products or who need continual
supervision and are a liability on lines, is now to be permitted and
made to be an UPSTAT unit with high standards, high production and
high morale unhindered by those who do not belong in such a unit but
require special handling on their own without distracting others who
are doing well.
UNIFORMS
The RPF members wear a BLACK boilersuit, or ethnically acceptable
cleaning outfit in very dark blue.
ORGANIZATION
The basic organization is as follows:
RPF Bosun
RPF MAA
RPF Section Leaders
RPF Section Members
The sections are made up of the leader plus 6-7 members,, depending on
the overall total. Each section is identified by a letter - 'A'
Section, 'B' Section, etc. The leader is responsible for his section,
The members of one section answer to their section leader, to the RPF
MAA or RPF Bosun, or any other on-line senior.
When working on specific cycles of action, members of one section may
be seconded by RPF Bosun to another section for that specific cycle.
This would be done if a cycle required 2 more members than were in the
section assigned to that cycle, but did not require two whole
sections.
The RPF Bosun's directions in these temporary assignments are final
and may be contested only by a Job Endangerment Chit by the Protesting
section leader.
Any stats obtained by the seconded members are credited to the section
to which they belong.
The section leaders are responsible for the productions ethics,
job-training, mustering, study attendance, study progress, berthing,
messing, appearance, personal hygiene, etiquette, discipline, moral,
general progress and behavior of the members in their own sections.
They see that their members are applying on-the-job basic Sea Org
cleaning, maintenance and hygiene tech such as in FSO 674 SPOTLESS,
SHINY SHIP MAINTENANCE MINI HAT issues.
The RPF Bosun is responsible for these factors with regard to the
section leaders.
The RPF MAA is responsible to the RPF Bosun for the Ethics of the
section leaders and of the RPF as a unit. He forces the section
leaders to keep Ethics in on their sections, and if he has to take
Ethics action on a section member that member's leader suffers the
same penalty also. He has the section leaders muster their sections
before breakfast, after meals and before studys before securing for
the day, and at any other times required by the Bosun within reason
and without distracting from production. If the Bosun has to bypass
the RPF MAA to get in Ethics, the same penalty applies to the RPF MAA.
RESTRICTION OF RPF FROM FLAG CREW
On assignment to the RPF, petition or no, the person forfeits any
position held in any other activity than post, in a watch, Troupe,
Team or anything else, or any non-Scientology or community activity,
etc. Where the RPF person has taken part in a non-Scientology activity
and would be expected to attend, meet payments, dues, or contribute in
any way but won't be able to because of RPF regulations a detailed
report is to be made by the person as part of his routing into the RPF
with copies sent to the AG Flag copy for Ethics folder and copies to
any other Execs who should be informed to ensure proper handling.
A member of the RPF is a member of the RPF and of nothing outside of
it, till released.
UTILIZATION
The sections of the RPF either singly or combined are put to work on,.
1. Building cleaning, exterior (including grounds) and interior.
2. Heads cleaning.
3. Painting requiring no extra skill.
4. Internal renovation.
5. Storage, passageway and stairway cleaning.
6. Large scale CSP actions but NOT in any berthing,, messing or
galley areas.
7. Garage cleaning.
8. Elevator and elevator shaft cleaning.
9. E/R cleanings especially upper and lower boiler rooms,
10. Party, etc. set-ups, but only MEST work (moving furniture, etc.).
11. Garbage disposal.
12. Other actions as may be approved (and not otherwise) by LRH Pers
Comm via LRH Comm Area Estates (or as delegated by LRH Pers Comm.
The RPF do NOT:
a. Clean FCCI Rooms.
[deleted]
e. Do any clerical work of any kind.
f. Clean, re-arrange or otherwise handle the berthing and personal
property of any crew member.
g. Do any fine paint, carpets, woodwork, plaster, wallpaper,
varnish or window replacement work.
h. Do any security guard, watch or WQSB duties.
i. Hold any post on any org lines-outside the unit as "Expeditor"
or "Temporary" or anything else.
j. Go on any kind of Mission or Errand whatever.
k. Do any crew's normal cleaning station for him.
l. Work with the EPF.
m. Handle any Motor Pool vehicle in any way,
The Stable Datum for the Unit and for its individual sections is ONE
JOB, ONE PLACE, ONE TIME.
[deleted]
Its sub-products are COMPLETED CYCLES OF ACTION.
The optimum utilization of the whole RPF and its sections is the
responsibility of the RPF Bosun.
This requires that he has a large board on which the authorized work
cycles can be shown and which indicates which are not started, not
complete, and DONE.
He must have a list of daily and weekly tasks that the RPF is
authorized to do, and a programme or programmes for the cleaning and
upgrade of specified areas of the base. The routine lists and
programmes must be okayed by the Area Estates Bosuns First Mate and CO
Area Estates, no matter who originates them.
He must resist all efforts to break the 1 job, 1 place, 1 time stable
datum.
When a cycle is reported-complete he must-verify the fact by personal
inspection (which can at times be delegated to the RPF MAA) and is to
then either got the job properly completed by those who failed to do
it, or to acknowledge,the completion directly with an okay, good, very
good, well done, very well done, as the case may be.
A half-done or overt product of course merits Ethics penalties in
addition to enforcement of the original order.
The Area Estates Bosun coordinates the assigments of EPF and RPF.
[deleted]
CONTINENTAL AREA RPF AUTHORIZATIONS
The Cont LRH Comm or a valid deputy will authorize or not all
applications for actions referred to in this FO and the FO 3434R
Series as requiring LRH Pers Comm approval.
MOTTO
The Motto of the RPF is:
THE RPF IS WHAT WE MAKE IT.
THE RPF IS WHERE WE MAKE IT.
PERSONAL RIGHTS
The personal rights of an RPF member are:
1. Full Scientology Justice at the hands of his Seniors and peers in
the RPF.
2. The right to insist on being allowed to complete a cycle of action
he has started providing it is an authorized cycle for his section
and he is not making an overt product.
3. Pay as allowed unless withheld or fined by a justice action.
4. Mormal meals, providing no crew member is in any way deprived
thereby.
5. Standard tech as delivered or deliverable by his fellows in the
RPF.
6. The opportunity to voice genuine grievances and to be heards and
to make constructive efforts to make things right.
7. Five hours study/co-audit per day.
8. Thirty minutes undisturbed time for each meal, and 30 minutes for
personal hygiene each day.
9. To make adequate progress as determined by his own impulses to get
fully cleaned up and released.
10. To receive as much respect from-others as he himself makes
possible for himself.
PERSONAL RESTRICTIONS AND PENALTIES
1. [deleted]
His last action in the RPF is the last step of his Liability
Formula on the 3rd Dynamic and when completed he rejoins the crew
in non-Existence.
2. Has no Liberties.
3. Is restricted to FH at all times except when on authorized work
cycles in other Flag Buildings. Any travel between buildings is
accompanied by a Security Guard. Additionally each week ons RPF
member as authorized by RPF MAA and Security Force MAA, may make
necessary purchases for RPF members (a.g. toothpaste, deodorants
etc.)accompanied on foot by a Security Guard at the convenience of
the Security Guard.
4. Receives 1/4 pay until released, then 1/2 pay.
5. Is berthed only in a space which is isolated from the rest and is
only for RPF. RPF berthings messing and Tech area must conform
with local regulations such as birthing, fire, health and safety
regulations, etc., but without violating other restrictions or the
intention of the RPF.
6. May not speak to or approach Flag staff or public or outside
public unless spoken to or as per further communication rules
authorized by LRH Pers Comm or where an impoliteness to the raw
public would be incurred.
In order to allow time for creation of the 2D of a married RPF
member that is upstat he/she may spend one night a week with
his/her spouse in a space authorized by Barthing I/C and as
scheduled by RPF MAA. If both are in the RPF both must be upstat
and get RPF MAA OK.
Some contact with a spouse or child is permitted during the
RPFer's meal time or securing time once daily if the RPFer is
upstat. All the above is providing no discussion of case or
condition occurs and providing there is NO enturbulation
whatsoever from or between either. In the case of a pre-school
child contact is allowed more than-once daily during mealtimes and
the schedule is to be worked out with the RPF MAA.
Penalties for upset or violations of these allowances are as per
points 15 and 16 below. All RPF DOs and DON'TS apply during time
sent with child or spouse (ie. uniform is worns, schedules kept,
no comm rules with spouse's friends, etc.) Note: The spouse or
child of the RPFer must originate to the RPF MAA the wish to speak
or have time with the RPFer.
7. Has rank or rating suspended and lowered two ranks or ratings
automatically on assignment to RPF.
8. Has meals available after Flag crew have been served.
9. Is part of the RPF mess to be in a special section on the 2nd
floor of the garage.
RPF messes must be organized per Messing FOs, but RPF Mess
Presidents are not part of the Mess Presidents' Meetings. RPF Mess
Presidents may form a meeting but the Chief Steward is not obliged
to act on their requests, but is expected to perform all
reasonable actions to provide adequate nutrition.
10. May not attend crew parties or hold their own, May not attend
othor drew or public events except by arrangement.
11. Is denied Canteen privileges, but may use vending machines on
ground floor breezeway.
12. Receives Mimeo's OODs and such FCCs EOs. FOs. HCOBs. EDs, etc. as
may directly apply to the RPF and its Tech Unit.
13. Has no uniforms except for boiler suit or approved cleaning
uniform.
14. May not enter staff or public areas, or elevator except when on
assigned cleaning duties in those areas$ under a Section Leader.
MAY NOT USE THE SWIMMING POOL AT ANY TIME. Service elevator is
used only.
15. Must suffer additional time in RPF if sentenced to it for
violations of regulations, failure to producer excessive natter,
refusal to come clean or any other offense, as assigned by the RPF
Bosun or MAA or by duly convened Court or Comm Ev.
16. In case of refusal to abide by the policies of tht RPF or to
accept the authority and directions of seniors, it is to be
handled by Comm Ev in which the person if found guilty is given
the choice to make it on his-own determinism or to be dismissed
from the Sea Org.
17. And if dismissed from the Sea Org is to sign a confession of his
crimes before leaving the Base.
18. Has no laundry service and the RPF must do its own laundry once
issued.
19. Has to use bath or W/C facilities only as designatedby CO Area
Estates.
20. May not have with them in the RPF ANY drugs or alcoholic
beverages, radios, TV, taped music, musical instruments, chess
games or any such entertainment or luxury, or consume such when on
authorized visits to spouse or child.
[deleted]
These policies and regulations may only be put aside or amended or
cancelled with the approval of the Commodore or of LRH Pers Comm.
NB: In the revision of 21 August 1976, the definitions of "Fully
Cleaned-Up" and "Released" have been revised by LRH Pers Comm.
Revised by
FMO 1672
Ens. Susan Walker,
I/C
Lt. (jg) Art Webb, 2nd
Re-Revised by
Commodore's
Messenger
Approved by
L. RON HUBBARD
COMMODORE
for the
BOARDS OF DIRECTORS
of the
CHURCHES OF
SCIENTOLOGY
---end excerpt---
The RPF is covered by the full FO 3434 series, from which FO3434 RB, as
quoted in parts above, is only a piece.
I am looking for other parts of the FO 3434 series as well as FO 2990-2,
entitled "RPF Assignment", a short quote if which is appended:
---begin excerpt---
"the following restrictions are applied to members:"
"(1) segregated from other RPF members with regard to work, messing,
berthing, musters and any other command activity."
"(2) NO PAY."
"(3) no training."
"(4) no auditing."
"(5) may ONLY WORK ON MUD BOXES in the E/R [Engine Room]. May NOT work
with RPF members."
"(6) six hours sleep MAXIMUM."
[NOTE: This is the MAXIMUM amount of sleep an RPF's RPF member can get.
In 1977, at the Cedars Complex, many RPF members worked a schedule of 30
hours of work and 3 hours of sleep. This was known as 30 on and 3 off (the
"decks")]
"(7) is under the RPF MAA for all matters, including production. The RPF
MAA may designate another to supervise their production."
"(8) Standard ethics penalties that apply to them TO BE TRIPLE for EACH
OFFENSE they are found guilty of, UNTIL THEY FULLY JOIN THE RPF ON THEIR
OWN DETERMINISM."
[I think I would agree to just about anything to get out of the RPF's
RPF, but I KNOW it wouldn't be on my own determinism. At LEAST I could get
1/4 pay (which in 1983 was $6) as an RPF member vs. NO pay for the RPF's
RPF]
"(9) may communicate ONLY with the RPF MAA or his designated assistant."
"(10) MAY NOT JOIN RPF fully until ACCEPTABLE AMENDS made to ALL RPF members."
---end excerpt---
--Cornelius.
--
/* Cornelius Krasel, U Wuerzburg, Dept. of Pharmacology, Versbacher Str. 9 */
/* D-97078 Wuerzburg, Germany email: pha...@rzbox.uni-wuerzburg.de SP4 */
/* "Science is the game we play with God to find out what His rules are." */
wgert
You seem to want to show off here in your cult of ars bigots as to
what 'materials' you have easily available, eh Cornelius?!
There is no point in your posting this purported "Flag Order" in
response to Evan's summary about the RPF.
wgert
On 21 Apr 1998 18:28:23 +0200, kra...@wpxx02.toxi.uni-wuerzburg.de
Ralph Hilton
On Thu, 23 Apr 1998 05:07:57 GMT, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:
>You seem to want to show off here in your cult of ars bigots as to
>what 'materials' you have easily available, eh Cornelius?!
>
>There is no point in your posting this purported "Flag Order" in
>response to Evan's summary about the RPF.
>
FO3434 was issued when I was on the Apollo. Hubbard was there at the time.
Quit sqirming wgert.
--
Ralph Hilton
wgert
That may be as you say it is. But your confirmation here does not
increase the credibility factor of Krasel's post. A "Flag Order" is a
specific Church *internal* instruction.
wgert
Chris Owen
In article <353ecca6...@news.loop.com>, wgert <wg...@loop.com>
writes
>You seem to want to show off here in your cult of ars bigots as to
>what 'materials' you have easily available, eh Cornelius?!
>
>There is no point in your posting this purported "Flag Order" in
>response to Evan's summary about the RPF.
Purported? You're suggesting it's a fake? Maybe someone should post a
.GIF of the original to alt.binaries.scientology...
--
| Chris Owen - chr...@lutefisk.demon.co.uk |
|---------------------------------------------------------------|
| NEW! - WORLD'S BIGGEST SINCLAIR WEB ARCHIVE: |
| http://www.nvg.unit.no/sinclair |
| OFFLINE VERSION: http://www.nvg.unit.no/sinclair/plansinc.zip |
Pimoty
Wgert: A "Flag Order" is a specific Church *internal* instruction. >>
Of course, what would you expect ? An external order ? To whom ? He posted the
name and number of the flag order ? What's the problem Wgert ? Surprised that a
critic once again backs up his assertions with data ?
Dave Bird---St Hippo of Augustine
In art<353fa94d...@news.loop.com>, wgert <wg...@loop.com> writes
>On Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:06:52 GMT, ra...@atnet.at (Ralph Hilton) wrote:
>>On Thu, 23 Apr 1998 05:07:57 GMT, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:
>>
>>>what 'materials' you have easily available, eh Cornelius?!
>>>There is no point in your posting this purported "Flag Order" in
>>>response to Evan's summary about the RPF.
>>
>>Quit sqirming wgert.
>
>specific Church *internal* instruction.
This is more than usually moronic, WGrunt. Does it also have *external*
instructions (telling *other* organisations how to behave)? But we are
discussing CoS's *own* conduct, governed by the *internal* ones.
|~/ |~/
~~|;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;||';-._.-;'^';||_.-;'^'0-|~~
P | Woof Woof, Glug Glug ||____________|| 0 | P
O | Who Drowned the Judge's Dog? | . . . . . . . '----. 0 | O
O | answers on *---|_______________ @__o0 | O
L |{a href="news:alt.religion.scientology"}{/a}_____________|/_______| L
and{a href="http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/lynx/q0.html"}{/a}XemuSP4(:)
William Barwell
In article <ybx1bFA4...@lutefisk.demon.co.uk>,
Chris Owen <chr...@lutefisk.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <353ecca6...@news.loop.com>, wgert <wg...@loop.com>
>writes
>>what 'materials' you have easily available, eh Cornelius?!
>>
>>There is no point in your posting this purported "Flag Order" in
>>response to Evan's summary about the RPF.
>
>.GIF of the original to alt.binaries.scientology...
>
(leave the pig outside) and check this flag order out there.
Pope Charles
SubGenius Pope Of Houston
Slack!
Marc Cabot
William Barwell wrote:
> Gertie can march his scrawny butt down to the org library,
> (leave the pig outside) and check this flag order out there.
Forgive me for correcting his fallible holiness in our Lord "BoB," but
this is wgertII, the new clam on duty. No pig connection for the new
clam has been established (not ruled out yet, either).
M.C. SP2
A.S.U.
M.I.F.
WATCH THE SKIES!
wgert
You haven't understood the point. It's a Church internal document. And
if it's a Church internal document, that's where it belongs.
You can discuss it as long as you wish but for starters you don't even
know if you have a right version of it or if you have a forged
document.
wgert
Rob Clark
On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:56:17 GMT, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:
>You haven't understood the point. It's a Church internal document. And
>if it's a Church internal document, that's where it belongs.
nope. it belongs right here, on the Internet. and that's where it'll end up.
just like all your other "internal" documents.
>You can discuss it as long as you wish but for starters you don't even
>know if you have a right version of it or if you have a forged
>document.
[yawn]
rob
Dave Bird---St Hippo of Augustine
In article <3547a1eb....@news.loop.com>,
wgert <wg...@loop.com> writes:
>You haven't understood the point. It's a Church internal document. And
>if it's a Church internal document, that's where it belongs.
Substitute "mafia internal document".
Therefore we shouldn't discuss it until the mafia say we can?
wgert
On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:25:05 GMT, xe...@mindspring.com (Rob Clark)
wrote:
>>if it's a Church internal document, that's where it belongs.
>
>just like all your other "internal" documents.
>
>>You can discuss it as long as you wish but for starters you don't even
>>know if you have a right version of it or if you have a forged
>>document.
>
>[yawn]
>
>rob
I hear you. But then what about posting some "internal" documents
from the Bob Clark concern too?! Would that be ok or not ok.
Like: Birth certificate. Marriage cert. divorce cert(s). High school
exam results. tax returns. etc. etc. What about photos of you, your
wife, your ex-wife, your children, your parents etc. etc.
Archangel
Hey, if you've got Rob's tax returns, go ahead and post them. I'm sure
he wouldn't mind...
Archangel