Hubbard's Gulags: RPF's RPF (RVY)

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Robert Vaughn Young

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Sep 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/24/97
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Martin Hunt asked and called into question if there is an RPF's RPF in
Scientology and if children are assigned to the RPF. Yes on both counts. I
was on the RPF for 16 months and while there were no children while I was
there (the youngest was, I believe, about 16), I had spoken with others
who had served with children and I even met one youngster (about 12) who
had been on the children's RPF on the ship.

As to the RPF's RPF, there is one and I was assigned to it. It is where
one goes when one first goes to the RPF. Let me tell you about it, using
their definitions.

Scientology officials like to say that the RPF (Rehabilitation Project
Force - Hubbard's double-speak for gulag) is where staff can go to be
"redeemed" and it is all "voluntary." That is a lie and it is proven in
their own literature.

First, the RPF and its rules were Hubbard's creation. There is an "RPF
Series" that lays down those rules. He created it on the ship Apollo.
Those assigned to the RPF are from the Sea Organization and despite the
"spin" that is put on it, people were and are sent there for the most
ridiculous reasons. Many times, they were sent by whim or in moments of
rage from Hubbard or a senior. It was a way to punish and to reprogram
("rehabilitate") the person by putting them in terrible conditions, with
long work hours (6 am to 6 pm), short meal breaks (30 minutes with
Hubbard's instructions that they are to be leftovers from the crew meals),
little sleep, no family or social connections and the rest of one's time
(5 hrs per night) being spent studying Hubbard or undergoing
interrogations where one confesses one's real or imagined crimes. These
"crimes" are written down and to be used against one, as needed. This can
go on for years.

The RPF gives a chilling, real example of what Hubbard wanted to do to
"delete" people from society, to "remove" them "without sorrow," that has
already been posted here to alt.religion.scientology. Unable to do so to
society in general, he was able to establish these programs in
Scientology, first on the ship and then ashore. (Parallels can be found in
the "reeducation" camps run by the Chinese where one goes and works and
confesses so he/she can reenter the society.)

The RPF's RPF is literally an RPF within the RPF, a gulag within the
gulag. What you are about to read as to the rules is basically the RPF's
alredy brutal restrictions applied once AGAIN. Let me quote the definition
of "RPF's RPF" from their Admin Dictionary. The definition itself is one
long paragraph in the book. I will break it apart into the sections,
merely for formatting purposes and ease on the eyes. I will insert my
comments in [brackets].

"RPF's RPF, the following restrictions are applied to members: (1)
segregated from other RPF members with regard to work, messing, berthing,
musters and any other command activity. [This is already done to RPF
members. They are segregated from the rest of the staff. They cannot speak
to staff or be with them, unless they are spoken to and are assigned to
work in the area. If spoken to, they must address all as "sir." On the
RPF's RPF, one is segregated again.]

"(2) no pay. [RPF pay was standardly $5 per week, per Hubbard's orders.
And it was not unusual to be on the RPF for more than a year. I was on it
for 16 months, which meant my income was $80 for 16 months of labor. Some
were there for years. Richard Tinklenberg (sp?) - also from Author
Services, Inc. - had been there for about a year and a half when I
arrived. He was still there when I left.]

"(3) no training. [The only training you get on the RPF is RPF training,
to help you be "redeemed" or "rehabilitated." No training means that your
"progress" is interrupted and you will not be able to "graduate."]

"(4) no auditing. [Same as 3. It merely means you cannot "progress."
However, one does write up "crimes" for the MAA. See below.]

"(5) may only work on mud boxes in the E/R. May not work with RPF members.
[The mud boxes were the filthiest place on the ship, in the engine room.
What it basically came down to - when applied to RPFs off the ship - is
that those on the RPF's RPF are given the dirtiest, filthiest, most
degrading tasks possible and only those. Being isolated from the rest of
the RPF also has its impact for one is a complete outcast, a leper, after
having striven to be a team member. The apparency being created is that
one has not one friend.]

(6) six hours sleep maximum. [Note: _maximum_. The rest of the day is
spent at hard, degrading labor, with no friend, and then one gets six
hours sleep MAXIMUM. Sleep deprivation is cited by experts as a key
element to create what is often called "brainwashing" or "mind control"
and here is where Hubbard really uses it to break a person.]

(7) is under the RPF MAA [Master At Arms] for all matters, including
production. The RPF MAA may designate another to supervise their
production. [This is Hubbard's way of saying the person is to be kept
under guard. They cannot even go to the bathroom alone. The MAA is the
only person they can speak to. The MAA is the RPF's "ethics officer."
He/she drives the group with punishments.]

(8) Standard ethics penalties that apply to them to be triple for each
offense they are found guilty of, until they fully join the RPF of their
own determinism. {Here is the truth about the "voluntary" nature of the
RPF. The person is kept on the RPF's RPF, overworked and deprived of sleep
with triple penalties of already brutal penalties until they "join the RPF
of their own determinism." It is, in fact, where one starts, before one
even joins the RPF.]]

(9) may communicate only with the RPF MAA or his designated assistant.
[This means exactly what it says and includes no communication with
family. One cannot speak or write to or receive communication from
relative, spouse or children. The "segregation" is complete. So if one
wants to see/speak with family, one decides to "join the RPF of their own
determinism." Are you reading this Chick Corea and John Travolta when you
complain about how Scientologists are treated?]

(10) may not join RPF fully until acceptable amends made to all RPF
members. [This is called an "amends project" and must be done in one's own
"free" time. The "amends' might be as simple as agreeing to do everyone's
wash for a week. The catch is that there is no free time, except in one's
sleep time, so what finally happens is the person gets no sleep at all or
only a couple of hours a night, in order to do the "amends."]

FCO 2990-2 [This is the directive from which the above is taken. It is a
Flag Conditions Order titled "RPF Assignment" dated 24 Apr 74.]

The definition then goes on with a bracketed remark, apparently inserted
by the editor of the volume and to mean that it was not part of the FCO.
It gives further insight.

"The first RPF's RPF assignment was made because the person considered
their RPF assignment amusing, an award and was therefore unable to
recognize a need for redemption or any means to effect it. Until such time
as the person recognized this need and of their own self-determinism
requested to be include in RPF redemption actions, the restrictions
applied."

In other words, punishment was increased until the person, "of their own
self-determinism," gave in.

Can you say, coercion?

But this is Hubbard's idea of "self-determinism."

Welcome to double-think.

As a final note, and to show how "ethics" are applied in the RPF, the
following is taken from the same Administrative Dictionary.

"REHABILITATION PROJECT FORCE MAA, responsible to the RPF Bosun [the RPF
member in charge of the RPF] for the ethics of the section leaders to keep
ethics in on their sections[the RPF is broken into sections, like military
sections - there is no set number so an RPF of 50 people might have six or
seven sections], and if he [the MAA] has to take ethics action on a
section member, that member's leader suffers the same penalty also." This
is what drives the RPF, that the section leaders are threatened with
suffering the same penalty of each of their section members if the MAA
must step in, so you can bet it can get brutal, on people already deprived
of sleep. To complain or noncomply can send one to the RPF's RPF until one
"changes one's mind" and agrees to the program.

So the next time Chick Corea or John Travolta complain about the treatment
of Scientologists, would someone let them show them either this post or
the entry from the Administrative Dictionary and ask them to protest how
Scientologists are treated INSIDE Scientology? (Don't be surprised if an
Orwellian edit on this definition is done, if not done already.)

And also pass it on to those who say there is no form of "cult mind
control" that goes on in Scientology. Better yet, let THEM do the RPF's
RPF and keep them there until they change THEIR minds "of their own
self-determinism" and let's see what they say.

Robert Vaughn Young
wri...@eskimo.com





--
Robert Vaughn Young
wri...@eskimo.com

Warrior

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Sep 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/24/97
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In article <60c1lb$63v$1...@eskinews.eskimo.com>,
Robert Vaughn Young <wri...@eskimo.com> wrote:
>
>Martin Hunt asked and called into question if there is an RPF's RPF in
>Scientology and if children are assigned to the RPF. Yes on both counts. I
>was on the RPF for 16 months and while there were no children while I was
>there (the youngest was, I believe, about 16), I had spoken with others
>who had served with children and I even met one youngster (about 12) who
>had been on the children's RPF on the ship.

I recently did a post in which I mentioned that I knew one child,
named David Weissberg, who was on the RPF's RPF in the PAC SO unit.

>As to the RPF's RPF, there is one and I was assigned to it. It is where
>one goes when one first goes to the RPF. Let me tell you about it, using
>their definitions.
>
>Scientology officials like to say that the RPF (Rehabilitation Project
>Force - Hubbard's double-speak for gulag) is where staff can go to be
>"redeemed" and it is all "voluntary." That is a lie and it is proven in
>their own literature.

Indeed. A Sea Org issue, Executive Directive 965 Flag, dated 1 July 1976,
and entitled "RPF Reinstated" refers to the RPF as the Redemption Project
Force. And the _Admin Dictionary_, first printing of 1976, on page 439 says:
"REDEMPTION PROJECT FORCE, see REHABILITATION PROJECT FORCE".

>First, the RPF and its rules were Hubbard's creation. There is an "RPF
>Series" that lays down those rules. He created it on the ship Apollo.
>Those assigned to the RPF are from the Sea Organization and despite the
>"spin" that is put on it, people were and are sent there for the most
>ridiculous reasons.

Sea Org staff are assigned to the PRF for various reasons. They are,
according to Flag Order 3434, for being:
1) an "R/Ser". This is Hubbardspeak for a person who is an evil
being. Of course, Hubbard defines "evil" in this context to be one who
has "evil intentions" towards Scientology, Scientologists, Hubbard,
Orgs, Mary Sue Hubbard, auditing, etc. A complete list of persons and
subjects (all Scientology-related) may be found in the booklet _E-Meter
Essentials_, as well as in HCOB 24 November 1962 "Routine 2-12 List One
Issue One The Scientology List".
2) a "low OCA non-producer". This is Hubbardspeak for a person who has
a low Oxford Capacity Analysis test score (reference ESTO tape 3,
7203C02 SO I entitled "Evaluation and Handling of Personnel) and who
does not "produce" enough. Such persons are referred to as "DBs",
which means "degraded beings". Sometimes the term "downstat" is used.
3) a "repeated stat crasher", which is a label for a person who
"causes 'stats' to go down severely, or 'crash' continually.
4) an "overt product maker". This is Hubbardspeak for a person who
doesn't produce work of "exchangeable" quality, or one whose work
continually needs correction/repair.

Sea Org staff are also assigned to the RPF for "out-2D". This
includes violations of Flag Order 3739 "2-D Rules" of 21 December 1979.
Out 2-D includes: "heavy petting" among un-wed Sea Org members; living
or sleeping with anyone other than one's spouse; men entering women's
quarters, or vice versa; engaging in "2-D activities" with a public
student or pc; committing adultery, bigamy, or any "irregular" sex act.

>Many times, they were sent by whim or in moments of
>rage from Hubbard or a senior.

I've seen this happen to staff MANY MANY times. I have also seen
threats of an RPF assignment used to make staff comply to orders or to
get "stats" up.

>It was a way to punish and to reprogram
>("rehabilitate") the person by putting them in terrible conditions, with
>long work hours (6 am to 6 pm),

I have seen RPF members work 30 hours straight with only 3 hours
allowed for sleep, until another 30-hour stretch was ordered, for days
on end. It was during the List One Era in PAC, which was co-incident
with the renovations on the Cedars Complex.

>short meal breaks (30 minutes with
>Hubbard's instructions that they are to be leftovers from the crew meals),
>little sleep, no family or social connections and the rest of one's time
>(5 hrs per night) being spent studying Hubbard or undergoing
>interrogations where one confesses one's real or imagined crimes. These
>"crimes" are written down and to be used against one, as needed. This can
>go on for years.

And it has, for some SO members. One such person I knew personally
was Andre Tabayoyon. He spent something like 3 years on the RPF.

>The RPF gives a chilling, real example of what Hubbard wanted to do to
>"delete" people from society, to "remove" them "without sorrow," that has
>already been posted here to alt.religion.scientology. Unable to do so to
>society in general, he was able to establish these programs in
>Scientology, first on the ship and then ashore. (Parallels can be found in
>the "reeducation" camps run by the Chinese where one goes and works and
>confesses so he/she can reenter the society.)
>
>The RPF's RPF is literally an RPF within the RPF, a gulag within the
>gulag. What you are about to read as to the rules is basically the RPF's
>alredy brutal restrictions applied once AGAIN. Let me quote the definition
>of "RPF's RPF" from their Admin Dictionary. The definition itself is one
>long paragraph in the book. I will break it apart into the sections,
>merely for formatting purposes and ease on the eyes. I will insert my
>comments in [brackets].
>
>"RPF's RPF, the following restrictions are applied to members: (1)
>segregated from other RPF members with regard to work, messing, berthing,
>musters and any other command activity. [This is already done to RPF
>members. They are segregated from the rest of the staff. They cannot speak
>to staff or be with them, unless they are spoken to and are assigned to
>work in the area. If spoken to, they must address all as "sir." On the
>RPF's RPF, one is segregated again.]
>
>"(2) no pay. [RPF pay was standardly $5 per week, per Hubbard's orders.

In 1975, RPF pay was $2.50 per week. Normal SO member pay was
$10.00 at that time. RPFers were given 1/4 pay. Later on, during the
time RVY was on the RPF, SO base pay had risen to $20.00, so RPF pay
was $5.00. Those on the RPF's RPF received NO pay.

>And it was not unusual to be on the RPF for more than a year. I was on it
>for 16 months, which meant my income was $80 for 16 months of labor.

I believe you meant to say $5.00/wk X 16 mos (approx 69 weeks) =
$5.00 X 69 weeks = $345.00.

>Some
>were there for years. Richard Tinklenberg (sp?) - also from Author
>Services, Inc. - had been there for about a year and a half when I
>arrived. He was still there when I left.]
>
>"(3) no training. [The only training you get on the RPF is RPF training,
>to help you be "redeemed" or "rehabilitated." No training means that your
>"progress" is interrupted and you will not be able to "graduate."]

The only "training" allowed is a "co-audit", geared to "handle your
case", particularly one's "evil intentions" (the "cause" of "R/Ses").

>"(4) no auditing. [Same as 3. It merely means you cannot "progress."
>However, one does write up "crimes" for the MAA. See below.]

Of course. Nothing forbids the use of "sec checks". Hubbard loved 'em.



>"(5) may only work on mud boxes in the E/R. May not work with RPF members.
>[The mud boxes were the filthiest place on the ship, in the engine room.
>What it basically came down to - when applied to RPFs off the ship - is
>that those on the RPF's RPF are given the dirtiest, filthiest, most
>degrading tasks possible and only those. Being isolated from the rest of
>the RPF also has its impact for one is a complete outcast, a leper, after
>having striven to be a team member. The apparency being created is that
>one has not one friend.]

One must *run* everywhere, address all others as "sir", and may not
speak unless spoken to.

>(6) six hours sleep maximum. [Note: _maximum_. The rest of the day is
>spent at hard, degrading labor, with no friend, and then one gets six
>hours sleep MAXIMUM. Sleep deprivation is cited by experts as a key
>element to create what is often called "brainwashing" or "mind control"
>and here is where Hubbard really uses it to break a person.]

This is true. As I noted above, many were allowed only 3 hours of
sleep for every 30 hours of labor. This is extremely abusive, and is
very successful in breaking the will, or "self determinism" of SO members.
It's a very effective way to degrade people and ensure compliance, not
to mention to make them susceptible to being coercively programmed.

>(7) is under the RPF MAA [Master At Arms] for all matters, including
>production. The RPF MAA may designate another to supervise their
>production. [This is Hubbard's way of saying the person is to be kept
>under guard. They cannot even go to the bathroom alone. The MAA is the
>only person they can speak to. The MAA is the RPF's "ethics officer."
>He/she drives the group with punishments.]

Phone calls to outsiders are NOT allowed.

>(8) Standard ethics penalties that apply to them to be triple for each
>offense they are found guilty of, until they fully join the RPF of their
>own determinism. {Here is the truth about the "voluntary" nature of the
>RPF. The person is kept on the RPF's RPF, overworked and deprived of sleep
>with triple penalties of already brutal penalties until they "join the RPF
>of their own determinism." It is, in fact, where one starts, before one
>even joins the RPF.]]
>
>(9) may communicate only with the RPF MAA or his designated assistant.
>[This means exactly what it says and includes no communication with
>family. One cannot speak or write to or receive communication from
>relative, spouse or children. The "segregation" is complete. So if one
>wants to see/speak with family, one decides to "join the RPF of their own
>determinism." Are you reading this Chick Corea and John Travolta when you
>complain about how Scientologists are treated?]

Sea Org members on the RPF are not allowed to spend time with their
children. Children on the RPF are not allowed to see their parents.
A parent on the RPF isn't able to take their child on "liberty" since
"libs" are not allowed for RPFers. Children on the RPF are not allowed
"libs" either. One reference I have on this is Child Care Org ED #36,
"Children and Liberty Day", dated 14 March 1979. It states:

"Any parent who isn't able to take their child on liberty must fall into
one of the following categories: [caps in original issue]
[...]
C. BE IN A LOWER CONDITION AND UNABLE TO GET EVEN HYGEINE TIME OFF
TO BE WITH THEIR CHILDREN.
[...]
F. HAVE A CHILD ON THE RPF OR IN LOWER CONDITIONS WHO CANNOT TAKE
LIBERTY.
G. BE ON THE RPF THEMSELVES AND UNABLE TO TAKE LIBERTY."

One other interesting fact that is very noteworthy, in my opinion.
On Jan 4, 1974, Hubbard wrote Flag Order 3434 "The Rehabilitation
Project Force". On 23 January of that year, Hubbard issued "The
Introspection Rundown" HCOB; this was only 1 1/2 weeks after the
FO 3434. His attention was definitely on handling "psychotics",
"evil beings", "R/Sers", "CI", etc.

Warrior

LsaDerrick

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Sep 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/25/97
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Hopefully D'Amato and his colleagues on the CSCE will become informed
about RPF, as well as local authorities in the areas where the RPF camps
are located.

Martin Hunt

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Sep 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/25/97
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In article <60c1lb$63v$1...@eskinews.eskimo.com>,

wri...@eskimo.com (Robert Vaughn Young) wrote:

>Martin Hunt asked and called into question if there is an RPF's RPF in
>Scientology and if children are assigned to the RPF.

Not that I recall, but thank you for the RPF article; very interesting
reading, and it confirms what many other people who've been on the RPF
have said.

ttyl,
martin.

--
Cogito, ergo sum. Use "Xenu" in Subject: line of email.

gerry armstrong

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Sep 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/25/97
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On 24 Sep 1997 21:45:15 GMT, wri...@eskimo.com (Robert Vaughn Young)
wrote:

>
>As to the RPF's RPF, there is one and I was assigned to it. It is where
>one goes when one first goes to the RPF. Let me tell you about it, using
>their definitions.

I was in the RPF twice, first for 17 months in Clearwater, then for 8
months at La Quinta and Gilman, both times assigned on the personal
order of Hubbard. The first time was for "insubordination" for
"attacking the GO," the second for "joking" about Hubbard's movies.
During most of my first "assignment" I was the "Bosun," the assignee
in charge of the RPF. During my second "assignment" I was the RPF MAA,
second in command under the Bosun, responsible for RPF "ethics."

During those periods, most people were not initially assigned to the
RPF's RPF. A person could be, if Hubbard or DM was being particularly
cruel to the person. Someone could also be sent to the RPF's RPF, as
Vaughn says, if he took his RPF assignment too lightly. That, by the
way, is the truth to be returned to the Scientology apologists/OSA
spokespeople who claim that RPF assignment was a sort of privilege for
spiritual reasons. It was PUNISHMENT. Anyone who believed and acted as
if the RPF were a privilege for spiritual purposes got the RPF's RPF.

It was generally while in the RPF that assignments were made to the
RPF's RPF. This could be for any infraction. There was always a great
deal of pressure on the RPF execs (Bosun and MAA) from the CMO and
Hubbard missions to be ruthless and uncaring with the other RPF
members. If the Bosun didn't assign an "out-ethics" RPF member to the
RPF's RPF the Bosun could find himself stripped of his post and
himself assigned to the RPF's RPF. I was once stripped of the post and
assigned an extra month in the RPF for "allowing slack discipline."
The assignment of extra time in the RPF should lay to rest the idea
that the RPF was anything but PUNISHMENT.

I have seen people picked up bodily by four big men and taken to the
RPF kicking, struggling and screaming in protest. That is not
"voluntary" as Scientology's spokespeople claim. I have seen many
people held and guarded. All mail out of the RPF was read by the MAA,
and any mail in could be. Telephone calls to family were by permission
and were monitored.

The RPF is something Germany and every government should look at
because the citizens of every country are being assigned to these
US-based gulags in violation of basic human rights. People assigned
are not free to leave but are held, guarded, and must sign lists of
their "crimes" culled from their pc folders before they are routed
out. Until, among other reforms Scientology must make, the
organization abolishes its RPFs, freedom of religion in the US is a
lie. The US has created a freedom for unholy corporations to persecute
individuals for "religious" reasons. The US has allowed its
Constitutional guarantee of religious freedom to be perverted by
money-motivated corporate lawyers.

Everything else Vaughn has stated is completely accurate. The RPF is
degrading, dangerous, debilitating and the sick product of a deluded
megalomaniac.

> Are you reading this Chick Corea and John Travolta when you
>complain about how Scientologists are treated?]
>
>

When Corea and Travolta, Cruise and any other spokesman for
Scientology promotes this organization they are sending someone to an
RPF gulag.


>And also pass it on to those who say there is no form of "cult mind
>control" that goes on in Scientology. Better yet, let THEM do the RPF's
>RPF and keep them there until they change THEIR minds "of their own
>self-determinism" and let's see what they say.
>

The RPF, the RPF's RPF and all of their bizarre punishments were
intended to break the spirit of anyone Hubbard or his cultish capos
felt needed breaking. People could be assigned for nothing more than a
needle movement on the organization's "religious artifact." People
could be assigned for a "low OCA," the "personality test" with which
the cult recruits raw meat. People could not get out of the RPF until
they had become so compliant that they thanked their punishers for the
punishment, and wrote a success story (to be used against them in the
future if they ever realized they had been abused and sought redress
for that abuse).

It is a tribute to the human spirit that such a diabolical enterprise
is so ineffective. Many people are speaking out against these abuses,
and they will be stopped.

>Robert Vaughn Young
>wri...@eskimo.com
>

Gerry Armstrong


Robert Vaughn Young

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Sep 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/25/97
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Gerry Armstrong made some excellent points in response to my post about
the RPF's RPF. It is information that should go to John Travolta and Chick
Corea and others who want to promote this cult or defend it.

I want to comment on a few of Gerry's points, deleting (unfortunately)
some other text to shorten this down. (Also I am unable to attach it as a
real reply and part of this thread. My apologies.)

Re: Hubbard's Gulags: RPF's RPF (RVY)

On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, Gerry Armstrong wrote:

snipped

> I have seen people picked up bodily by four big men and taken to the
> RPF kicking, struggling and screaming in protest. That is not
> "voluntary" as Scientology's spokespeople claim. I have seen many
> people held and guarded. All mail out of the RPF was read by the MAA,
> and any mail in could be. Telephone calls to family were by permission
> and were monitored.

I had forgotten about the mail monitoring. Mail in to me arrived opened.
All mail out from me had to be sent in an UNSEALED envelope. Several times
I would be hauled into an interrogation by the RPF MAA as to the something
being said in a letter to me or from me. They were on the lookout for any
complaint or problem. And more than once, I was told to rewrite the letter
to delete the offensive language and the instance would end up showing up
in one of my security checks. E.g., if I had made a harmless remark like,
"It would be nice to spend a day at the beach with you," I would be asked,
"On your remark that you wanted to spend a day at the beach, are you
planning to leave?" That sort of paranoia runs deep in the organization.
Staff face this daily.

There was one instance that would have been funny, had it not been so evil
and brutal. I had given Stacy a small stuffed lion that she sometimes
carried around in her purse. We named him Lionel and sometimes remarked on
him, as if he was a person, as to his life and comings and goings. It was
one of our few, very tiny fantasy worlds that we enjoyed. And so Lionel
showed up in our mail, such as her remarking how Lionel was back from New
York and he saw a Broadway show etc. One day, Stacy wrote how poor Lionel
was very upset as he had forgotten the number of his Swiss bank account. I
had countered with something like how this had happened to him before with
his Liechtenstein account. Well, the next thing we know is that Stacy and
I (separately - she was in LA and I was at the Gilman base and we didn't
piece this together for a long time) were interrogated for days about
Lionel and his bank accounts. Each of us tried to say he was only a small
stuffed animal but the capos didn't buy it. Their paranoia told them we
were lying and so we were grilled for days to confess. Stacy, I learned
later, was shattered by the experience only because it was so harmless,
such a tiny little private fantasy world that we could create and -
exactly like Winston and Julia in "1984" - the organization came down on
it with jackboots to shatter it, destroy it, and grind it into the dirt.
Later, the was no apology or even an admission that they were wrong. The
questions merely stopped one day and move on to a new subject. But it has
always stuck with me as an example of how they operate, straight out of
the evil cruelty of "1984."

John Travolta and Chick Corea should hear a few stories like these before
they take to defending this cult.

> The RPF is something Germany and every government should look at
> because the citizens of every country are being assigned to these
> US-based gulags in violation of basic human rights. People assigned
> are not free to leave but are held, guarded, and must sign lists of
> their "crimes" culled from their pc folders before they are routed

This is an important point! In the tradition of the former Soviet Union or
in Communist China or other dictatorships, these "crimes" are often
manufactured or fed to the person to confess to. The person then often
writes them down in their own handwriting so it can be used later - in
"dead agent" packs - as "proof" as to what the person is "really like." It
is not unusual for a staff member to take the "easy route" and say, yes,
okay, I did that and then - and this is the astounding part - make it
their own (TR1, anyone? those of you who know what I am talking about can
give that to the apologists) and embellish on the fabricated crime!
Impossible you say? Hardly. Police investigators are familiar with this
phenomenon, where people suddenly confess to a crime that they didn't do
and even come to believe that they did it. Well, it happens all the time
in Scientology.

How can this happen? Well, first, you come to believe that you had all
these past lives, that you committed crimes in your past lives - which is
why you are in the bad shape you are in now - and it gets REALLY EASY to
do what Scientology calls "dub in" or merely imagine it and then - pure
doublethink - call it "real." You can scoot on down the "time track" into
that past life and find those times when you murdered people and blew up
planets and overthrew governments. (Past life crimes are not included in
DA packs.) So it gets really easy to "confess" and go along with the idea
that you've been so very very bad but now that you are telling all, and
telling them what you want them to know, that you will be "better."

This takes a hyperjump when doing OT3 for it is possible to get into the
"crimes" of the BTs that you imagine are covering your body! (You often
have to find an "incident" that the BT is "stuck in" and it could be
whatever killed him/her or it could be a crime. Whatever. You get to make
your own little movie.) The point is that after years of such mental
doublethink fantasy, it becomes part of one's mental makeup. One's
psychology begins to think with that structure in the same way one thinks
with the grammatical/syntactical structure or the political/social
structure in which one is raised.

The other element is the "control" of the person in charge of one. From
day one, when you walk in, you are controlled, all under the guise that
you are learning to be FREE of control. (More doublethink.) But in the
auditing situation, what you respond to is controlled by the auditor's
questions. (In OT2 and 3 you get to start to do it to yourself, which is
where you really get into doublethink and build the ruts and "circuits"
that will take over. This is what allows a person to be told that Joe saw
them do so-and-so and the person can buy it. They have been trained to
take commands. They have been drilled to take orders. They have spent
possibly thousands of hours having their thinking process reshaped as
certainly as if they had been physically manipulated for years by a yoga
master to assume certain poses. It gets really easy to put that leg behind
your head and it gets really easy to imagine you've got crimes and all you
have to do is "confess" and your needle will float and you will be better
and come to love Big Brother.

> out. Until, among other reforms Scientology must make, the
> organization abolishes its RPFs, freedom of religion in the US is a
> lie. The US has created a freedom for unholy corporations to persecute
> individuals for "religious" reasons. The US has allowed its
> Constitutional guarantee of religious freedom to be perverted by
> money-motivated corporate lawyers.

I have been asked - by media, individuals and in deposition - if I
consider Scientology to be a religion. I do not. If others want to believe
in it as a religion, that is their right. I am a firm supporter in what
the Supreme Court laid down: you can believe what you want. You just
cannot DO what you want.

If a person wants to believe that they are covered with Raisinettes (a
chocolate covered raisin candy here in the US), hey, go for it. But you
cannot coerce a person into believing it or defraud them to believe it or
punish them for saying otherwise. You cannot lock up people, beat them,
starve them or degrade them and keep them hidden from their families and
friends and the authorities while their thinking processes are manipulated
to the point that they will come out smiling and - as Gerry puts it so
well later - thanking their abusers, just as Winston comes to do at the
end of "1984." He has been driven over the edge and he comes to love Big
Brother, as a tear steaks his cheek.

Another irony is that Hubbard writes about the phenomenon of someone
thanking their abuser and how degrading it is. But that is one of the
clever tricks that Hubbard always did, he told you about things that you
then come to believe he is not doing. After all, he told you about it,
didn't he? How could you possible be abused to the point that you would
thank your abuser if LRH told you that this was a bad practice! Ha!
Welcome to doublethink.

That is not religion. That is mind-bending coercion. And that is what the
RPF and the RPF's RPF finally comes to represent in its purest form,
despite the arguments or the pleas of the apologists that there is no such
control or manipulation and that it really isn't possible to do that to a
person's mind. As I said before, let THEM spend a few weeks on the RPF's
RPF, under heavy labor, fully degrading, no sleep, no friends, interrupted
by interrogations and let THEM come back and tell me and those who went
through it that it really doesn't exist.

And don't give me a comparison of a monastery or a boot camp. Give me a
comparison of a gulag and we can talk. (I saw a lot of illegal, physical
brutality in the USMC and I saw men break and I saw men die but it is not
in the same category as the RPF/RPF's RPF and I know that Andre Tabayoyan
- another Jungle Bunny (Marine), but one who spent one-third of his 21
Scientology years on the RPF - that he will agree.

snipped

> >
> When Corea and Travolta, Cruise and any other spokesman for
> Scientology promotes this organization they are sending someone to an
> RPF gulag.
>
Bravo, Gerry. This should be the #1 item to be pushed to these Scientology
Celebs. They are protesting the treatment of Scientologists in Germany and
yet they don't have the foggiest idea that Scientologists and former
Scientologists are being brutalized right here in their own US of A.

But this is typical of the RTC/OSA, to divert attention away from what
they are doing and claim that others are doing it TO them. No. People are
being brutalized INSIDE Scientology and the horrifying part is that they
are being convinced it is right, just as those hundreds of people were
convinced to follow Jim Jones in Guyana.

And the koolaid they drank was tax exempt too.

>
> >And also pass it on to those who say there is no form of "cult mind
> >control" that goes on in Scientology. Better yet, let THEM do the RPF's
> >RPF and keep them there until they change THEIR minds "of their own
> >self-determinism" and let's see what they say.
> >
> The RPF, the RPF's RPF and all of their bizarre punishments were
> intended to break the spirit of anyone Hubbard or his cultish capos
> felt needed breaking. People could be assigned for nothing more than a
> needle movement on the organization's "religious artifact."

Gerry is remembering that infamous "List One" era when people were being
shipped to the RPF every day because the were "List One RSers." A "List
One" was a list of items that were read off to the person while the person
was holding the e-meter. If the needle acted in a certain manner (called a
"rock slam") it meant the person had crimes against Hubbard and they were
shipped off to the RPF. It took nothing more. The mere jerk of that sacred
needle was enough for that person to lose their family and their dignity.
I don't know how many people went but it was a purge that Hubbard had
ordered in one of his more demonic states of paranoia. It was like when
Stalin was shooting all of his generals, convinced they were working for
the Nazis.

Those who went to the RPF as a "List One RSers" had no idea what the
"crime" was, only that he/she was one and they had to go spend months or
years digging around their thetans/BTs to find or manufacture enough
crimes to confess to so that they could be deemed "rehabilitated" and
"graduate" from the RPF. (That is how it is done. If one confesses to
enough self-degrading, self-damaging crimes, and you sign them, they are
finally convinced and let you go.) Even then, they were forever marked as
a "former List One RSer" and suspected.

This purge was all done in the name of "religion" as it is done today.

> People
> could be assigned for a "low OCA," the "personality test" with which
> the cult recruits raw meat. People could not get out of the RPF until
> they had become so compliant that they thanked their punishers for the
> punishment, and wrote a success story (to be used against them in the
> future if they ever realized they had been abused and sought redress
> for that abuse).
>
Exactly! In fact, under the definition of "Rehabilitation Project Force"
in their Admin Dictionary (my copy reprinted 1986), the reasons for
assignment to the RPF are: (1) R/Sers (2) low OCA non-producers, (3)
repeated stat crashers, (4) overt product makers.

See that? The top reason is a movement of the needle on the meter. The
second is a test score. Forget 3 and 4. Those are always rigged too. If
they say you have "crashed the stats," then you have crashed the stats.
Etc. For this you get to lose your freedoms and family until you come
around to their way of thinking.

> It is a tribute to the human spirit that such a diabolical enterprise
> is so ineffective. Many people are speaking out against these abuses,
> and they will be stopped.
>

I agree. Until then, those celebrities and apologists who are defending
the practices of this cult and diverting attention to other issues will be
known as accomplices. At least Kathy Lee Gifford had the good sense to
speak out when the abuses in her industry came to the surface. We await
the day when a Scientology celebrity wakes up. The problem they will
generate is that the RTC/OSA won't be so quick to publish their supposed
"crimes" on the Internet. Then again, maybe they will. After all, Hubbard
said to do it.

Neal Hamel

unread,
Sep 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/26/97
to

On 24 Sep 1997 21:45:15 GMT, wri...@eskimo.com (Robert Vaughn Young)
wrote:

>Martin Hunt asked and called into question if there is an RPF's RPF in


>Scientology and if children are assigned to the RPF. Yes on both counts. I
>was on the RPF for 16 months and while there were no children while I was
>there (the youngest was, I believe, about 16), I had spoken with others
>who had served with children and I even met one youngster (about 12) who
>had been on the children's RPF on the ship.
>

[ snip ]

Best thread in weeks, guys (RVY, Warrior & Armstrong). I was lucky to
never have spent time on the RPF. It is sobering to read
recollections of this depravity that Hubbard created.

If ever anyone had qualms about whether the word 'evil' does apply to
at least some of what Hubbard wrought, these posts should dispel that.
It is also instructive to realize that scientology has been doing
their utmost to ruin the lives of two of these posters. They know too
much.

-Neal H.


Rod Keller

unread,
Sep 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/26/97
to

Neal Hamel (smok...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: On 24 Sep 1997 21:45:15 GMT, wri...@eskimo.com (Robert Vaughn Young)
: >Martin Hunt asked and called into question if there is an RPF's RPF in

: >Scientology and if children are assigned to the RPF. Yes on both counts. I
: >was on the RPF for 16 months and while there were no children while I was
: >there (the youngest was, I believe, about 16), I had spoken with others
: >who had served with children and I even met one youngster (about 12) who
: >had been on the children's RPF on the ship.
:
: Best thread in weeks, guys (RVY, Warrior & Armstrong). I was lucky to

: never have spent time on the RPF. It is sobering to read
: recollections of this depravity that Hubbard created.
:
: If ever anyone had qualms about whether the word 'evil' does apply to
: at least some of what Hubbard wrought, these posts should dispel that.
: It is also instructive to realize that scientology has been doing
: their utmost to ruin the lives of two of these posters. They know too
: much.

From the 1965 report prepared for the State of Victoria, Australia
concluded "Scientology is evil; its techniques evil; its practice a
serious threat to the community, medically, morally and socially.
Scientology procedures have done very considerable harm to individuals who
have been pursuaded to undergo processing and training. In many cases,
mental derangement and a loss of critical faculties have resulted from
Scientology processing and have continued long after the individuals have
ceased active association with Scientology."

--
Rod Keller / rke...@voicenet.com / Irresponsible Publisher
Black Hat #1 / Expert of the Toilet / Golden Gate Bridge Club
The Lerma Apologist / Merchant of Chaos / Kha Khan countdown: 9 to go
Killer Rod / OSA Patsy / Quasi-Scieno / Mental Bully

Xenu Mania

unread,
Sep 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/26/97
to

"heavy petting" in this case means hugging and/or kissing.

Now look. The RPF is for SPs, right? What is there about hugging and
kissing that makes a person an SP? How is a person who is in touch (pun
intended) with his senses equivalent to suppressing a dynamic. According
to Hubbard, 2D includes the sex act. How did he envision people having
sex?... Supper 6-6:30, Sex 6:30-6:45, Classes 6:45-9:00 p.m.

>...

> I have seen RPF members work 30 hours straight with only 3 hours
> allowed for sleep, until another 30-hour stretch was ordered, for days
> on end. It was during the List One Era in PAC, which was co-incident
> with the renovations on the Cedars Complex.

I can verify one instance of this, as the EPF worked with the RPF to move
into the Cedars Complex from Beacon Street. Boxes arrived in trucks and
chains of EPFers/RPFers were set up to take a box off of a truck, pass it
to the next person who passed it to the next person, etc. If the chain of
people wouldn't stretch to where the boxes were supposed to go, the boxes
would just be piled in a room until they were all removed from the truck,
then the chain of people would move to where they could move that pile of
boxes closer to where they were supposed to go. This went on all night
and into the next day. I felt sorry for the people who were not
physically strong enough to do this work, but who had been given no
choice.

>
> >(8) Standard ethics penalties that apply to them to be triple for each
> >offense they are found guilty of, until they fully join the RPF of their
> >own determinism. {Here is the truth about the "voluntary" nature of the
> >RPF. The person is kept on the RPF's RPF, overworked and deprived of sleep
> >with triple penalties of already brutal penalties until they "join the RPF
> >of their own determinism." It is, in fact, where one starts, before one
> >even joins the RPF.]]

Right, one penalty to make up for the offense, one to make up for the fact
that someone else had to discover the offense, and one to make up for the
fact that the person who found the offense could have been doing his/her
regular job instead of cleaning up after other people. This is one of
Hubbard's many coercion formulas. (Coercion means being intimidating into
doing something you didn't want to.)

Joe Cisar

reply to: iy...@cleveland.freenet.edu Xenu Mania
http://www.innernet.net/joecisar/conmenu.htm
The biggest men with the biggest ideas can be shot down by the
smallest men with the smallest minds. Think big anyway.


wgert

unread,
Sep 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/26/97
to

wri...@eskimo.com (Robert Vaughn Young) wrote:

>As to the RPF's RPF, there is one and I was assigned to it. It is where
>one goes when one first goes to the RPF. Let me tell you about it, using
>their definitions.
>

>Robert Vaughn Young
>wri...@eskimo.com

Hey RVY, after the incident with the minor girl (see below) you should
have been behind bars rather than cleaning bilges.

Here is the excerpt from the Rogues Gallery of ARS Bigots:

"Flaunting Church ethical principles, Vaughn secretly continued his
deviant behavior. On one occasion
unbeknownst to anyone at the time, he misused his position while
working on a project out of town, to attempt
to seduce a 16 year-old female assistant whom he had coyly
arranged to stay in his hotel room. The incident
only came to light when the frightened and shaken girl reported
the incident to Vaughn's superiors:

"I woke up about 3 am to find Vaughn in my bed telling me he
was going to rub my back...He
started rubbing my lower back...By this time l was getting
very nervous and upset and not sure how
to get out of this tactfully. Then he stared to move closer
to my chest and I jumped up and said I had
to go to the bathroom. He made a sound as if he was asleep.
When l got back he was in his bed, he
reached over when I got into mine and patted me on the head.

"I fell asleep - then at 6 am I woke up again to find him
next to me - again he was rubbing my back
but his hand went up my shirt front. I shoved it away and
told him to get in his bed and let me sleep.
He turned over as if in his sleep and eventually went to his
own bed. This time I was really scared
and I didn't go to sleep for one and a half hours."

"Vaughn, who was 47 years old at that time, was shown this letter
from the girl and asked to respond. He
claimed that she had awaken and that he was only rubbing her back
to put her to sleep, however his written
statement at the time belies what was really going on:

"I sat down on the edge of the bed and began to rub her back
to put her to sleep. I continued to rub
her back and her breathing began to grow even. My mistake
was then not getting up. Instead, I laid
down on my side, on the right side of the bed, popping my
head up with my right hand. She was
now laying on her stomach... I rubbed her back and her neck
for some time as I found it relaxing
also. I remember laying there just rubbing her back with my
eyes closed.

"As far as touching her breasts, she was on her stomach. I
think twice I ran my hand across her back
(I had rubbed up and down and then went from one side to the
other) and then slightly down the
ribs, I encountered what would be the flesh side of the
breast. I did not dally on it nor did I message
the side of her breast. I spent the time on her back and
neck."

"His flimsy explanation was not bought by his superiors, who had
no other choice but to remove him from his
position. His attempted molestation of one of the Church's
members had been outrageous. What possesses a 47
year-old man to make sexual advances toward a 16 year-old girl
who has been entrusted to help him as his
assistant?

"Rather than society's choice, which would have been outright
dismissal or possibly jail, Vaughn chose to enter
the Church's voluntary rehabilitation program."


wgert
Read the Rogues Gallery of ARS Bigots
www.dancris.com/~rshaw


Tilman Hausherr

unread,
Sep 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/27/97
to

In <60hh5p$bn3$2...@usenet76.supernews.com>, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:

> "Rather than society's choice, which would have been outright
>dismissal or possibly jail, Vaughn chose to enter
> the Church's voluntary rehabilitation program."

If what you claim really happened, the "church" could still start
criminal or civil lawsuit against him. But they don't, they did not even
mention anything of this in the 3 day hearing in 1995. Obviously none of
this would survive in a court. It would probably come out that the girl
started to "remember" the allegation only after lots of people were
asked to write up stuff against RVY.

On the other hand, scientologist Tony Strawn got 30 years in jail.
No RPF was ever mentioned.

--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP4]
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/#cos

Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.

NEW: Find broken links on your web site with "Xenu's Link Sleuth":
http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/xenulink.html

roger gonnet

unread,
Sep 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/27/97
to Robert Vaughn Young

Robert Vaughn Young wrote:
>
>
> Gerry Armstrong made some excellent points in response to my post
> about
> the RPF's RPF.
> Re: Hubbard's Gulags: RPF's RPF (RVY)
>
> On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, Gerry Armstrong wrote:
>
> snipped
> > I have seen people picked up bodily by four big men and taken to the
> > RPF kicking, struggling and screaming in protest. That is not
> > "voluntary" as Scientology's spokespeople claim. I have seen many
> > people held and guarded. All mail out of the RPF was read by the
> MAA,
> > and any mail in could be. Telephone calls to family were by
> permission
> > and were monitored.
>
> I had forgotten about the mail monitoring. Mail in to me arrived
> opened.
> All mail out from me had to be sent in an UNSEALED envelope.

This is in the RPF, where people are "disciplined" for any real or faked
cause, Robert; but i am speaking in my book (in french) of the methods
used by Paris Org for common mail adressed to people into (or supposed
to be into) the org.

The mails were put in a kraft basket attached to a wall, opened or not
(readable if it was postcard or else), but they were never sent back
neither to their sender, when possible, neither to their recipient if
he/she was no longer in Paris org.

Due to the very high number of people blowing from the cult, and those
sent away to DK or UK or USA to undefinite courses and cycles, some of
that mail was never distributed to anybody.

I've seen the same happening in Saint Hill (and perhaps in DK): during
the few weeks I was ther in 76, some letters remained there weeks along,
nobody caring to make them follow to their recipients.

This despising handling of mail is from elhublard, and can be found even
in the Admin Dictionary, where it is said that no mail should be
encouraged to people in orgs. (I've not the exact quote here).

Roger

Joe Harrington

unread,
Sep 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/28/97
to

roger gonnet wrote:

>
> Robert Vaughn Young wrote:
> >
> >
> > Gerry Armstrong made some excellent points in response to my post
> > about
> > the RPF's RPF.
> > Re: Hubbard's Gulags: RPF's RPF (RVY)
> >
> > On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, Gerry Armstrong wrote:
> >
> > snipped
> > > I have seen people picked up bodily by four big men and taken to the
> > > RPF kicking, struggling and screaming in protest. That is not
> > > "voluntary" as Scientology's spokespeople claim. I have seen many
> > > people held and guarded. All mail out of the RPF was read by the
> > MAA,
> > > and any mail in could be. Telephone calls to family were by
> > permission
> > > and were monitored.
> >
> > I had forgotten about the mail monitoring. Mail in to me arrived
> > opened.
> > All mail out from me had to be sent in an UNSEALED envelope.
>
> This is in the RPF, where people are "disciplined" for any real or faked
> cause, Robert; but i am speaking in my book (in french) of the methods
> used by Paris Org for common mail adressed to people into (or supposed
> to be into) the org.
>
> The mails were put in a kraft basket attached to a wall, opened or not
> (readable if it was postcard or else), but they were never sent back
> neither to their sender, when possible, neither to their recipient if
> he/she was no longer in Paris org.
>
> Due to the very high number of people blowing from the cult, and those
> sent away to DK or UK or USA to undefinite courses and cycles, some of
> that mail was never distributed to anybody.
>
> I've seen the same happening in Saint Hill (and perhaps in DK): during
> the few weeks I was ther in 76, some letters remained there weeks along,
> nobody caring to make them follow to their recipients.
>
> This despising handling of mail is from elhublard, and can be found even
> in the Admin Dictionary, where it is said that no mail should be
> encouraged to people in orgs. (I've not the exact quote here).
>
> Roger

Opening of incoming personal mail was a very common practice at Flag in
1989/1990.

Joe

Steve Jebson

unread,
Sep 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/28/97
to

Robert Vaughn Young wrote:
>
> Further below, Joe Harrington comments that the opening of mail was a
> common practice at Flag in 1989/90. Actually, it is wider than that.
> Roger's remark reminded me that there is a Hubbard policy letter that ALL
> mail into the organization is to be opened and the reason he gives for
> this is to ensure that there are no bills coming into the organization
> that will be missed.
>
> But what it allows (and did allow) was the monitoring of mail to staff. If
> a staff member is under suspicion and the RTC/OSA/Dept20 personnel want to
> monitor him/her by reading their mail, they simply ask HCO (where the mail
> comes in) to route that person's mail to them. They can read it, photocopy
> it for the Intell files and send it back to HCO so it can go on the
> person. If the person complains or asks why his/her mail is opened, the
> policy on opening mail to find bills is cited by HCO, which is a party to
> this. The role of Dept20 is kept out of it. Meanwhile Dept20 has the names
> of family, addresses, phone numbers, intimate information, all in the
> files that they can pass over to their agents/private investigators or
> use any time they want.
>

Opening of incoming mail was routine at Cedars when I was there (83-84).
It was one of my responsibilities. I personally, however, never sent
such mail to Dept 20 or observed that happening. This was at an inter-
mediate period, though, when there really wasn't a Dept 20 in orgs.
The GO had been abolished and OSA at that time was a separate operation
run under CMO. Individual orgs didn't really have one.

--

******
I don't think anybody fully understands the antipathy I have to
authoritar-
ian rule... The campaign to force into a dictatorship a group which has
freedom as its main objective is about as popular with me as a fire in a
powder factory. L. Ron Hubbard

Robert Vaughn Young

unread,
Sep 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/28/97
to

Further below, Joe Harrington comments that the opening of mail was a
common practice at Flag in 1989/90. Actually, it is wider than that.
Roger's remark reminded me that there is a Hubbard policy letter that ALL
mail into the organization is to be opened and the reason he gives for
this is to ensure that there are no bills coming into the organization
that will be missed.

But what it allows (and did allow) was the monitoring of mail to staff. If
a staff member is under suspicion and the RTC/OSA/Dept20 personnel want to
monitor him/her by reading their mail, they simply ask HCO (where the mail
comes in) to route that person's mail to them. They can read it, photocopy
it for the Intell files and send it back to HCO so it can go on the
person. If the person complains or asks why his/her mail is opened, the
policy on opening mail to find bills is cited by HCO, which is a party to
this. The role of Dept20 is kept out of it. Meanwhile Dept20 has the names
of family, addresses, phone numbers, intimate information, all in the
files that they can pass over to their agents/private investigators or
use any time they want.

Incoming mail of staff was a key source of information for the
Intelligence Bureau, using that policy as a ruse.

Two policies I could quickly find:

HCOPL 7 Oct 70 Mail Line "The mail opener opens all mail,
whether personal or otherwise and no matter how marked on
the cover..."

HCOPL 31 Aug 65 Mail Opening "...done in Dept of Communications
- HCO Division 1"

Robert Vaughn Young
wri...@eskimo.com


Joe Harrington (joe...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:


: roger gonnet wrote:
: >
: > Robert Vaughn Young wrote:

: > >
: > >
: > > Gerry Armstrong made some excellent points in response to my post


: > > about
: > > the RPF's RPF.

: > > Re: Hubbard's Gulags: RPF's RPF (RVY)


: > >
: > > On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, Gerry Armstrong wrote:
: > >
: > > snipped
: > > > I have seen people picked up bodily by four big men and taken to the
: > > > RPF kicking, struggling and screaming in protest. That is not
: > > > "voluntary" as Scientology's spokespeople claim. I have seen many
: > > > people held and guarded. All mail out of the RPF was read by the
: > > MAA,
: > > > and any mail in could be. Telephone calls to family were by
: > > permission
: > > > and were monitored.
: > >
: > > I had forgotten about the mail monitoring. Mail in to me arrived
: > > opened.
: > > All mail out from me had to be sent in an UNSEALED envelope.

: >
: > This is in the RPF, where people are "disciplined" for any real or faked


: > cause, Robert; but i am speaking in my book (in french) of the methods

: > used by Paris Org for common mail adressed to people into (or supposed


: > to be into) the org.
: >
: > The mails were put in a kraft basket attached to a wall, opened or not
: > (readable if it was postcard or else), but they were never sent back
: > neither to their sender, when possible, neither to their recipient if
: > he/she was no longer in Paris org.
: >
: > Due to the very high number of people blowing from the cult, and those
: > sent away to DK or UK or USA to undefinite courses and cycles, some of
: > that mail was never distributed to anybody.
: >
: > I've seen the same happening in Saint Hill (and perhaps in DK): during
: > the few weeks I was ther in 76, some letters remained there weeks along,
: > nobody caring to make them follow to their recipients.
: >
: > This despising handling of mail is from elhublard, and can be found even
: > in the Admin Dictionary, where it is said that no mail should be
: > encouraged to people in orgs. (I've not the exact quote here).
: >
: > Roger

: Opening of incoming personal mail was a very common practice at Flag in
: 1989/1990.

: Joe

wgert

unread,
Sep 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/30/97
to

wri...@eskimo.com (Robert Vaughn Young) wrote:

>
>Gerry Armstrong made some excellent points in response to my post about
>the RPF's RPF. It is information that should go to John Travolta and Chick
>Corea and others who want to promote this cult or defend it.
>
>I want to comment on a few of Gerry's points, deleting (unfortunately)
>some other text to shorten this down. (Also I am unable to attach it as a
>real reply and part of this thread. My apologies.)
>

RVY:
Answer the question - is the below information true? This is taken
from the Bigots web page? It seems to me that the information below
is taken directly from your own words.

"Flaunting Church ethical principles, Vaughn secretly continued
his deviant behavior. On one occasion unbeknownst to anyone at the
time, he misused his position while working on a project out of town,
to attempt to seduce a 16 year-old female assistant whom he had coyly
arranged to stay in his hotel room. The incident only came to light
when the frightened and shaken girl reported the incident to Vaughn's
superiors:

"I woke up about 3 am to find Vaughn in my bed telling me he
was going to rub my back...He started rubbing my lower back...By this
time l was getting very nervous and upset and not sure how to get out
of this tactfully. Then he stared to move closer to my chest and I
jumped up and said I had to go to the bathroom. He made a sound as if
he was asleep. When l got back he was in his bed, he reached over when
I got into mine and patted me on the head.

"I fell asleep - then at 6 am I woke up again to find him
next to me - again he was rubbing my back but his hand went up my
shirt front. I shoved it away and told him to get in his bed and let
me sleep. He turned over as if in his sleep and eventually went to
his own bed. This time I was really scared and I didn't go to sleep
for one and a half hours."

Vaughn, who was 47 years old at that time, was shown this
letter from the girl and asked to respond. He claimed that she had
awaken and that he was only rubbing her back to put her to sleep,

however his written statement at the time belies what was really going

DeoMorto

unread,
Sep 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/30/97
to

wgert yapped:Answer the question - is the below information true? This is

taken
from the Bigots web page? It seems to me that the information below
is taken directly from your own words. <<

tell you what oh spam artist - why dont you answer some of the many questions
posed on ARS?
Is what RVY said about the RPFs RPF correct?
Yes or No?
(I should tell you oh robotic one that I have been there and done that so
don't try going to the OSA press release)
Is Lisa McPherson dead? Yes or No?
Was she under the care of scientologists when she died?
yes or no?
Did Heber flee spain and forfeit the 1 million dollars of bail that was put
up by the IAS
Yes or no?
Did Hubbard die with the psychiatric drug Vistaril in his system prescribed
by his doctor?
Yes or no?
Come on Wgert you claim that you are part of a Church that loves the truth -
can you actually tell any?
Or is accusation your only mode of communication?

wgert

unread,
Sep 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/30/97
to

wri...@eskimo.com (Robert Vaughn Young) wrote:

>: > > Gerry Armstrong made some excellent points in response to my post


>: > > about
>: > > the RPF's RPF.

>: > > Re: Hubbard's Gulags: RPF's RPF (RVY)


>: > >
>: > > On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, Gerry Armstrong wrote:
>: > >
>: > > snipped
>: > > > I have seen people picked up bodily by four big men and taken to the
>: > > > RPF kicking, struggling and screaming in protest. That is not
>: > > > "voluntary" as Scientology's spokespeople claim. I have seen many
>: > > > people held and guarded. All mail out of the RPF was read by the
>: > > MAA,
>: > > > and any mail in could be. Telephone calls to family were by
>: > > permission
>: > > > and were monitored.
>: > >
>: > > I had forgotten about the mail monitoring. Mail in to me arrived
>: > > opened.
>: > > All mail out from me had to be sent in an UNSEALED envelope.

>: >
>: > This is in the RPF, where people are "disciplined" for any real or faked
>: > cause, Robert; but i am speaking in my book (in french) of the methods
>: > used by Paris Org for common mail adressed to people into (or supposed
>: > to be into) the org.
>: >
>: > The mails were put in a kraft basket attached to a wall, opened or not
>: > (readable if it was postcard or else), but they were never sent back
>: > neither to their sender, when possible, neither to their recipient if
>: > he/she was no longer in Paris org.
>: >
>: > Due to the very high number of people blowing from the cult, and those
>: > sent away to DK or UK or USA to undefinite courses and cycles, some of
>: > that mail was never distributed to anybody.
>: >
>: > I've seen the same happening in Saint Hill (and perhaps in DK): during
>: > the few weeks I was ther in 76, some letters remained there weeks along,
>: > nobody caring to make them follow to their recipients.
>: >
>: > This despising handling of mail is from elhublard, and can be found even
>: > in the Admin Dictionary, where it is said that no mail should be
>: > encouraged to people in orgs. (I've not the exact quote here).
>: >
>: > Roger

>: Opening of incoming personal mail was a very common practice at Flag in
>: 1989/1990.

>: Joe


>--
>Robert Vaughn Young
>wri...@eskimo.com

Please help get RVY a job. He is desperate for money as you can tell
by his recent spate of postings.

Fishman - don't you have any more declarations which you need Young to
sign? A couple thousand and he'll sign anything for you.

wgert

unread,
Sep 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/30/97
to

wri...@eskimo.com (Robert Vaughn Young) wrote:

>
>Gerry Armstrong made some excellent points in response to my post about
>the RPF's RPF. It is information that should go to John Travolta and Chick
>Corea and others who want to promote this cult or defend it.
>
>I want to comment on a few of Gerry's points, deleting (unfortunately)
>some other text to shorten this down. (Also I am unable to attach it as a
>real reply and part of this thread. My apologies.)
>
>Re: Hubbard's Gulags: RPF's RPF (RVY)
>
>

>Exactly! In fact, under the definition of "Rehabilitation Project Force"
>in their Admin Dictionary (my copy reprinted 1986), the reasons for
>assignment to the RPF are: (1) R/Sers (2) low OCA non-producers, (3)
>repeated stat crashers, (4) overt product makers.
>
>See that? The top reason is a movement of the needle on the meter. The
>second is a test score. Forget 3 and 4. Those are always rigged too. If
>they say you have "crashed the stats," then you have crashed the stats.
>Etc. For this you get to lose your freedoms and family until you come
>around to their way of thinking.
>
>> It is a tribute to the human spirit that such a diabolical enterprise
>> is so ineffective. Many people are speaking out against these abuses,
>> and they will be stopped.
>>
>
>I agree. Until then, those celebrities and apologists who are defending
>the practices of this cult and diverting attention to other issues will be
>known as accomplices. At least Kathy Lee Gifford had the good sense to
>speak out when the abuses in her industry came to the surface. We await
>the day when a Scientology celebrity wakes up. The problem they will
>generate is that the RTC/OSA won't be so quick to publish their supposed
>"crimes" on the Internet. Then again, maybe they will. After all, Hubbard
>said to do it.
>
>Robert Vaughn Young
>wri...@eskimo.com
>
>

comment:

RVY must be looking for more work.

Whenever he starts going overboard with his ever changing versions of
the RPF, you know he is hurting for money and needs to obtain some new
business as a witness for hire.

What happened - did the Germans stop paying you RVY? Or are you
trying to entice them to give you more money after FACTNet stopped
paying you?

Weren't you the one who lied in a deposition for Steve Fishman trying
to support his hairbrained stories? How much did you get paid for
that
one?

Who is paying you now?

wgert
Read the Rogues Gallery of ARS Bigots
www.dancris.com/~rshaw

>--
>Robert Vaughn Young
>wri...@eskimo.com

wgert

unread,
Sep 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/30/97
to

til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote:

>In <60hh5p$bn3$2...@usenet76.supernews.com>, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:

>> "Rather than society's choice, which would have been outright
>>dismissal or possibly jail, Vaughn chose to enter
>> the Church's voluntary rehabilitation program."

>If what you claim really happened, the "church" could still start
>criminal or civil lawsuit against him. But they don't, they did not even
>mention anything of this in the 3 day hearing in 1995. Obviously none of
>this would survive in a court. It would probably come out that the girl
>started to "remember" the allegation only after lots of people were
>asked to write up stuff against RVY.

>On the other hand, scientologist Tony Strawn got 30 years in jail.
>No RPF was ever mentioned.


So do you admit that Young did try and molest a 16 year old girl?

According to the document on the web site, he got into bed withher and
was touching her breasts:

the time on her back and neck.'"

"His flimsy explanation was not bought by his superiors, who had
no other choice but to remove him from his position. His attempted
molestation of one of the Church's members had been outrageous. What
possesses a 47 year-old man to make sexual advances toward a 16
year-old girl who has been entrusted to help him as his assistant?"

"Rather than society's choice, which would have been outright


dismissal or possibly jail, Vaughn chose to enter the Church's
voluntary rehabilitation program.

"Today, Vaughn continually makes outrageously false statements
about alleged hardships he experienced while doing this rehabilitation
program (the RPF). He of course leaves out the real reasons that he
was sent to be rehabilitated i.e. he could not be trusted to keep his
hands of underage girls and thus was potentially a threat to them and
to himself. Perhaps the smartest course of action would have been to
dismiss him right then and be done with it, but because Young wanted
to remain, he was given the option of proving he could manage to keep
his unethical impulses in check and to rehabilitate himself."

"The real truth about the RPF, is that Young faked his way
through and was never honestly doing the program. Even so, what he is
saying now about the RPF is nothing like what he describes in his
written report about how the program was."

It is very easy to say that he was lying about all the positive things
he said when he was in Scientology.

But now the truth is, he gets paid to make negative statements.

When he left the Church, after he attempted to get the Church to pay
him $50,000, he went to the opposition and got on the payroll. That
is the only way he has made his money since.

What opposition counsel would pay him to say something positive? In
Young's mind every minor incident is made into a huge mountain in
order to keep his fees coming in.

IMHO he is a crybaby and is trying to generate income.

Tilman Hausherr

unread,
Sep 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/30/97
to

In <60rej3$jb3$1...@usenet76.supernews.com>, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:

>So do you admit that Young did try and molest a 16 year old girl?

No. What I wonder: why did the girl not sue him? Why was he not reported
to police? To me it seems this "molestation" matter happened just for PR
reasons. All these "facts" were not presented in court. Why? Because
they would be laughed at by the judge. And the girl would also be
cross-examined by an attorney who will not accept if she swears to "only
say what is true for me or what is true in a universe I created myself".


Rob Clark

unread,
Sep 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/30/97
to

On Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:24:54 GMT, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:

>Please help get RVY a job. He is desperate for money as you can tell
>by his recent spate of postings.

are you saying he gets paid to post? what a crock of shit!

>Fishman - don't you have any more declarations which you need Young to
>sign? A couple thousand and he'll sign anything for you.

your own desperation is revealed in your pitiful two-line followups to
RVY's substantive, well-argued posts. you can't answer his posts,
so you respond to chickenshit hit-and-run attacks.

what a fool! what a weakling! what a scientologist!

>wgert
>Read the Rogues Gallery of ARS Bigots
> www.dancris.com/~rshaw

rob

Fast

unread,
Sep 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/30/97
to

<snip>

On Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:17:37 GMT, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:

> So do you admit that Young did try and molest a 16 year old girl?

Anything to change the subject (the RPF), hey Wgert?

- Fast

Warrior

unread,
Sep 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/30/97
to

In article <19970930162...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, deom...@aol.com
says...

>
>wgert yapped:Answer the question - is the below information true? This is
>taken from the Bigots web page? It seems to me that the information below
>is taken directly from your own words. <<

I'll answer for Scienos, since they are unable to tell the truth. I
used to be one of the culties, so I am qualified to give an honest
answer.

> tell you what oh spam artist - why dont you answer some of the many questions
> posed on ARS?

Hubbard's policy forbids their responding to "entheta" (truth).

> Is what RVY said about the RPFs RPF correct?
> Yes or No?

Yes.

> (I should tell you oh robotic one that I have been there and done that so
> don't try going to the OSA press release)
> Is Lisa McPherson dead? Yes or No?

Yes, she is dead, unfortunately. And Scientology and Scientologists who
were entrusted with her care *let* her dehydrate right before their eyes.
Only when she was *already dead* did she finally "see" the doctor, Minkoff,
who happens to be a Scientologist himself.



> Was she under the care of scientologists when she died?
> yes or no?

Yes, if one can call it "care". I would more appropriately say she
was betrayed by Scientology.

> Did Heber flee spain and forfeit the 1 million dollars of bail that was put

> up by the IAS?
> Yes or no?

Yes. He knew he would almost certainly be convicted, so he fled Spain
rather than face charges.

> Did Hubbard die with the psychiatric drug Vistaril in his system prescribed
> by his doctor?
> Yes or no?

Yes, although Scientology management never disclosed to its members
that this was the case. Dr. Eugene Denk, a Scientologist, was Hubbard's
doctor.

> Come on Wgert you claim that you are part of a Church that loves the truth -
> can you actually tell any?

Scientology policy very clearly does *not* allow members to communicate
with anyone whose questions are "entheta" (truth). Only specially trained
PR "spokespersons" are allowed to communicate with those who are "hostile",
"antagonistic", asking "sensitive" questions, or who are inquiring into
internal organizational matters.

> Or is accusation your only mode of communication?

This is so funny. Every time I see questions asked of a Scieno, I have
to laugh because I feel sorry for them. There is no true freedom of speech
for a Scieno. Only expressions of speech which are not critical of their
cult are allowed. The Code of a Scieno only allows them to attack perceived
enemies. This is why Scientology will never become an accepted organization.
They are completely unable to respond truthfully to accurate criticism or to
respond to questions whose answers, truthfully given, would reveal their
hypocracy.

Grady has it right when he calls them a cult of pathetic losers.

Warrior

Ralph Hilton

unread,
Oct 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/1/97
to

On Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:24:54 GMT, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:

snipped


>
>Please help get RVY a job. He is desperate for money as you can tell
>by his recent spate of postings.
>

>Fishman - don't you have any more declarations which you need Young to
>sign? A couple thousand and he'll sign anything for you.
>

>wgert

Where on earth does OSA find its staff nowadays? This one obviously
hasn't read his hat pack. He quotes pages of "Suppressive entheta"
before throwing in his petty jibe. Tut tut. 2 days in cramming on PR
series 27 and a week on rice and beans!


--

Ralph
email: ta.tenta@hplar
(reversed to foil the latest spam bots)
(Rückwärts lesen, um die neuesten Spam-Bots auszuschalten)

"You won't always be here. But before you go, whisper this to your sons and their sons -
The work was free - keep it so" LRH 1957

roger gonnet

unread,
Oct 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/1/97
to

Ralph Hilton wrote:
>
> On Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:24:54 GMT, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:
>
> snipped
> >
> >Please help get RVY a job. He is desperate for money as you can tell
> >by his recent spate of postings.
> >
> >Fishman - don't you have any more declarations which you need Young
> to
> >sign? A couple thousand and he'll sign anything for you.
> >
> >wgert
>
> Where on earth does OSA find its staff nowadays? This one obviously
> hasn't read his hat pack. He quotes pages of "Suppressive entheta"
> before throwing in his petty jibe. Tut tut. 2 days in cramming on PR
> series 27 and a week on rice and beans!

He would be right to get Fishman or any other interested person suiting
the "c"o$ to write more truths (meaning entheta on shitology) upon that
damned cult... and getting more money for RVY!

So, wgert is an asshole, not knowing what would be the effect of his
stupid proposal on his damned Kult.

Roger

Åke Wiman

unread,
Oct 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/1/97
to


wgert <wg...@loop.com> wrote <60rd0q$3j9$1...@e3000.supernews.com>...


> wri...@eskimo.com (Robert Vaughn Young) wrote:
>
>
> Whenever he starts going overboard with his ever changing versions of
> the RPF, you know he is hurting for money and needs to obtain some new
> business as a witness for hire.


Please, please - inform us wgert !

What's the right version ?

We want to hear everything about RPF - how does it work nowadays ?

Have your celebrities been at RPF - what did they like most about it ?

Do you allow visitors to study the phenomenon - just to get the real truth
about RPF ? Any opening hours ? Is admission free ?


> Who is paying you now?

Look for the punchline when a $cio speaks - put him on the meter - then ask
him the same question - and ask him what it is he's hiding. Until you get a
floating needle.

Who is paying you wgert ?

What are you hiding wgert ?


Todays rate of Co$'s credibility: 0
(well - have to influence them in positive thinking)

roger gonnet

unread,
Oct 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/1/97
to

When do you go to experiment RPF's Rpf, poor goon?


>
> Todays rate of Co$'s credibility: 0

Rate of wgert: below O.
R

Åke Wiman

unread,
Oct 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/1/97
to


wgert <wg...@loop.com> wrote <60rej3$jb3$1...@usenet76.supernews.com>...


> til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote:
>
> >In <60hh5p$bn3$2...@usenet76.supernews.com>, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:
>
>
> So do you admit that Young did try and molest a 16 year old girl?
>

Why didn't Co$ go public about this before ?

Hm..
Wonder what's going on in Co$ right now - that we will hear about in future
when people leave Co$.

Thanks "wgert" for the insight how tech works inside Co$.

Any hints whats going on right now - the earlier we get those stories the
better we can understand how tech works. You don't have to wait until
people leave - tell us now.
You know - everything don't go public like Lisa.


--
Åke Wiman

William Barwell

unread,
Oct 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/1/97
to

In article <60rej3$jb3$1...@usenet76.supernews.com>, wgert <wg...@loop.com> wrote:
>til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote:
>
>>In <60hh5p$bn3$2...@usenet76.supernews.com>, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:
>
>>> "Rather than society's choice, which would have been outright
>>>dismissal or possibly jail, Vaughn chose to enter
>>> the Church's voluntary rehabilitation program."
>
>>If what you claim really happened, the "church" could still start
>>criminal or civil lawsuit against him. But they don't, they did not even
>>mention anything of this in the 3 day hearing in 1995. Obviously none of
>>this would survive in a court. It would probably come out that the girl
>>started to "remember" the allegation only after lots of people were
>>asked to write up stuff against RVY.
>
>>On the other hand, scientologist Tony Strawn got 30 years in jail.
>>No RPF was ever mentioned.
>
>
>So do you admit that Young did try and molest a 16 year old girl?
>
Nobody believes a word of your lies. You are obviously a paid
hate monger for the hate cult of Scienbtology. We have seen all to much
of their lies, distortions, and rank libels to believe so much as a word
you dribble.

Besides which, it has nothing to do with he subject, the hatefukl, insane
and grotesques mind rape practices of this stupid cult and it's RPF
practices.

No different from teh Communist re-education camps. Teaching
the culties to love Big Hubbard, just like 1984. RPF is room 101,
and all Sea Org members will go to room 101 until they are properly
broken.

No amount of lies from you will ever hide that.

And you just remind everybody of Hubbard. The abuse, beatings and torture
of his first wives. Abandoning his first wife and two children to horse
around with Parsons and loose women in orgies and sex magic jast after
being released from Service. When Hubbard and this stupid lie cult lies
that Hubbard was "abandoned by his family" and was "crippled and olamost
blind". Any cult that still peddles these official lies in "What is
Scientology?" on it's official website will peddle any sort of other lie
it can make up, shamelessly, and unceasingly even after that lie has been
decisively exploded.


I have also heard that Mary Sue Hubbard found some ugly stuff in Hubbard's
on PC folder, some sexual escapades from Ron, that make your libels and
lies here look tame. After which. Mary Sue stopped sleeping with Ron.
Some very ugly stuff. Ugly indeed.

There is much about Hubbard that still has not hit the net. Yet.
Keep pushing. See if you can piss off enough people that still have dirt
on Ron.

You realize now, that everytime you post a libel or lie of these sort,
people wil immediately think back to Ron's well documented sexual
problems including the torture and assaults and abuse of his first wives,
well documented, and will wonder and immediately think about the fact that
a lot of stuff about Ron is still to come out to a wider public.

Try not to continually remind people of L. Ron Hubbard's vast and rather
nasty and well documented failings.

That is all your posts do.
They also remind everybody of the official lies of Scientology.


Can you believe Wgert, an obvious official liar for a cult that still
has the obvious lies of WIS? on it's official website?

No. Liars to the core.
Proven liars.
"Dead agents"
Untrustworthy.
Proven false all too often when indulging in the furious lie and libel
campaigns.

Part of Ron's vaunted early "research' was to systematically abuse,
and torture his first wives. Can you trust a cult that would honor such a
man? And showcase his lies decade after decade?
And then try to top Ron's lies?

No.

And RPF is an unacceptable cult practice still. The abuse
continues on. You have not managed to distract this thread on this
practice either. Just remind us of Ron's ugly sexual escapades and lies
and your obvuious lies, and this cult's utter reliance on lies and libels
on top of it's ugly and unacceptable RPF practices.

Way to Go Wgert. Downstat to start an atack that can so easily be turned
against you, Stupidology the Lie-cult and Ron the wife abuser and liar.

Pope Charles
SubGenius Pope Of Houston
Slack!


William Barwell

unread,
Oct 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/1/97
to

In article <01bcce4e$13c24140$5c71f482@default>,

Åke Wiman <ake....@swipnet.se> wrote:
>
>
>wgert <wg...@loop.com> wrote <60rej3$jb3$1...@usenet76.supernews.com>...
>> til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote:
>>
>> >In <60hh5p$bn3$2...@usenet76.supernews.com>, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:
>>
>>
>> So do you admit that Young did try and molest a 16 year old girl?
>>
>
>Why didn't Co$ go public about this before ?
>

Because they just made this libel up recently.

I wonder if Hubbard as a young man ever sexually molested animals
on his family's ranch? You know that this is not an uncommon
act amongst those like Hubbard who grow up on ranches in rural places
like Montana.

We do know he abused and savagely beat and mentally tortured his first
wives.

L. Ron Hubbard was a deeply disturbed man.

Who created a vicious and mentally disturbed cult.
Officials from the cult like Wgert prove that with
their posts.

Remember Vera, Cory et al?
Typical Scientology hate cult officials.
Now Wgert.

All they do is show just how evil this cult really is and remind
us of Ron's ugly side.

William Barwell

unread,
Oct 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/2/97
to

In article <60rf44$9ju$2...@usenet11.supernews.com>, wgert <wg...@loop.com> wrote:
>wri...@eskimo.com (Robert Vaughn Young) wrote:
>
****************** Deleted ******************

>
>Please help get RVY a job. He is desperate for money as you can tell
>by his recent spate of postings.


Please get Wgert a real brain. His defective Scientology brain
makes him do foolish things. Like post stupid and failed attacks on people
who are far Bigger Beings than anything he or his fellow OSA
members can possibly attain to in their degraded position as shills for a
hat cult like Stupidology.


A hate cult that does many evil things, such as RVY and others relate
in this thread. Pathetically. Wgert thinks he can distract us from the
evil this cult does with pathetic name calling.

Gertie simply shows this cult has no intention of changing it's ways.

Of course the cult is going to open all mails. Like the old Soviet Union
and Mao's China, this paranoid and evil cult allows no privacy to prevent
any and all complaints and legitimate gripes about Scientology's
often incompetent activities.

Totalitarians never allow the slightest complaints.
Even if deserved.

Scientology cannot allow any privacy for that might allow the room for
even one person to complain about this cult's inadequacies.
Scientology cannot allow this any more than Mao's revolutionaries would
allow the slightest complaints about Mao's insane policies either.
There isn't much difference between the two, is there Gertie?
Except RPF is as bad as Scientology can usually get away with treating its
dissidents. So far.

Roland

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Oct 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/2/97
to

William Barwell wrote:
<snip>

> I wonder if Hubbard as a young man ever sexually molested animals
> on his family's ranch? You know that this is not an uncommon
> act amongst those like Hubbard who grow up on ranches in rural places
> like Montana.

His family didn't have a ranch. It was just a lie told by Hubbard.

Remember, "If it is written, it isn't true".

Roland

wgert

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Oct 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/3/97
to

wbar...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (William Barwell) wrote:

>In article <60rej3$jb3$1...@usenet76.supernews.com>, wgert <wg...@loop.com> wrote:

>>til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote:
>>
>>>In <60hh5p$bn3$2...@usenet76.supernews.com>, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:
>>
>>>> "Rather than society's choice, which would have been outright
>>>>dismissal or possibly jail, Vaughn chose to enter
>>>> the Church's voluntary rehabilitation program."
>>
>>>If what you claim really happened, the "church" could still start
>>>criminal or civil lawsuit against him. But they don't, they did not even
>>>mention anything of this in the 3 day hearing in 1995. Obviously none of
>>>this would survive in a court. It would probably come out that the girl
>>>started to "remember" the allegation only after lots of people were
>>>asked to write up stuff against RVY.
>>
>>>On the other hand, scientologist Tony Strawn got 30 years in jail.
>>>No RPF was ever mentioned.
>>
>>
>>So do you admit that Young did try and molest a 16 year old girl?
>>

> Nobody believes a word of your lies. You are obviously a paid
>hate monger for the hate cult of Scienbtology. We have seen all to much
>of their lies, distortions, and rank libels to believe so much as a word
>you dribble.

Acutally, I think a lot of people believe Young did it. It is in his
own handwriting.

Sorry, you can't handle it.

Patrick Jost

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Oct 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/3/97
to

Wgert is actually an authority on the RPF. He dabbled with the tantric
challenge, and failed! He was sen to the RPF for this.

This, however, is just another failure for wgert, who can't get anything
right. Mike Rinder is looking for a replacement, David Miscavige tells
wgert jokes and Leisa Goodman even suggested that OSA reactivate Vera
Wallace.

If anyone has doubts about wgert's abilities (and remember, there's a
Scietnology book called _The Creation of Human Ability_) just look at the
way he posts. Has wgert done the Student Hat? In wgert's case, I'll bet it
was the "Hubbard Certified Dunce Cap"!

Last but not lest...why oh why does he keep promoting that silly bigots
page? If the KKK ever sees it, they'll send OSA a letter complimenting
them on their cross burning technique!


--
|\ _,,,---,,_ Patrick Jost - jo...@dgs.dgsys.com
ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_
|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' black hawala's nemesis...
'---''(_/--' `-'\_)

wgert

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Oct 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/3/97
to

wbar...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (William Barwell) wrote:

>In article <01bcce4e$13c24140$5c71f482@default>,
>Åke Wiman <ake....@swipnet.se> wrote:
>>
>>
>>wgert <wg...@loop.com> wrote <60rej3$jb3$1...@usenet76.supernews.com>...

>>> til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote:
>>>
>>> >In <60hh5p$bn3$2...@usenet76.supernews.com>, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> So do you admit that Young did try and molest a 16 year old girl?
>>>
>>

>>Why didn't Co$ go public about this before ?
>>

>Because they just made this libel up recently.

I suggest you ask him if it is true. He apparently got in quite a bit
of hot water over it. You don't need to make excuses for it. Better
yet ask his wife.

Tilman Hausherr

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Oct 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/3/97
to

In <6123qb$eb4$3...@usenet11.supernews.com>, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:

>Good questions. I wonder the same thing. Too bad it didn't go to
>court. He obviously didn't change his ways.

So, why didn't it go to court? If RVY is such a criminal, shouldn't it
be a "big win" if you guys can get him indicted? Why don't you try it?
Why was nothing of this and the other amazing smear stuff mentioned in
the 1995 Colorado hearing?

Weaklings!

It seems to me that this girlie incident has the same % of truth as the
allegation that Henson and Ward talked about bombs. Who knows, maybe
that airline attendant was just *that* person? (LOL!)

Tilman


--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP4]
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/#cos

Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.

NEW: Find broken links on your web site with "Xenu's Link Sleuth":
http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/xenulink.html

Rob Clark

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Oct 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/3/97
to

On Fri, 03 Oct 1997 06:53:25 GMT, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:

>til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote:

>>In <60rej3$jb3$1...@usenet76.supernews.com>, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:

>>>So do you admit that Young did try and molest a 16 year old girl?

16 years old isn't "child-molesting" and in many states it is the legal age
of consent. it's certainly poaching, but i'll take someone who once
fondled a 16 year old over l. ron hubbard, who snuck the dead body of susan
meister off the apollo with a bullet-hole in susan's forehead, then lied
and said she died of cholera to keep her family from getting the body.

rob

Paul

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Oct 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/3/97
to

wgert wrote:

>
> wbar...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (William Barwell) wrote:
>
> > Nobody believes a word of your lies. You are obviously a paid
> >hate monger for the hate cult of Scienbtology. We have seen all to much
> >of their lies, distortions, and rank libels to believe so much as a word
> >you dribble.
>
> Acutally, I think a lot of people believe Young did it. It is in his
> own handwriting.

So you wouldn't mind posting proof of that, would you? No? I thought
not.

Are you under the mistaken impression that you have any credibility,
wgert?

-Paul

wgert

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Oct 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/3/97
to

til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote:

>In <60rej3$jb3$1...@usenet76.supernews.com>, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:

>>So do you admit that Young did try and molest a 16 year old girl?

>No. What I wonder: why did the girl not sue him? Why was he not reported


>to police? To me it seems this "molestation" matter happened just for PR
>reasons. All these "facts" were not presented in court. Why? Because
>they would be laughed at by the judge. And the girl would also be
>cross-examined by an attorney who will not accept if she swears to "only
>say what is true for me or what is true in a universe I created myself".

Good questions. I wonder the same thing. Too bad it didn't go to


court. He obviously didn't change his ways.

It still doesn't change the truth that the incident happened and RVY
got in a lot of hot water over it. Check it with him. You seem to
know him well. I want to see if he lies about it like he does about
the rest of the things he talks about in order to make a name for
himself.

Mike O'Connor

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Oct 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/3/97
to

In article <6123qb$eb4$3...@usenet11.supernews.com>, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:

[...]


> It still doesn't change the truth that the incident happened and RVY
> got in a lot of hot water over it.


++++++++++++ SACRED CULT SCRIPTURE +++++++++++++

NEVER agree to an investigation of Scientology. ONLY agree to an
investigation of the attackers.

This is correct procedure:

(1) Spot who is attacking us.

(2) Start investigating them promptly for FELONIES or
worse using own professionals, not outside
agencies.

(3) Double curve our reply by saying we welcome an
investigation of them.

(4) Start feeding lurid , blood sex crime actual
evidence on the attackers to the press.

-- L. Ron Hubbard
HCO Policy Letter 15 Feb 1966

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

> Check it with him. You seem to
> know him well. I want to see if he lies about it like he does about
> the rest of the things he talks about in order to make a name for
> himself.
>

> wgert
> Read the Rogues Gallery of ARS Bigots
> www.dancris.com/~rshaw

-Mike

Paul

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Oct 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/3/97
to

wgert wrote:
> I suggest you ask him if it is true. He apparently got in quite a bit
> of hot water over it. You don't need to make excuses for it. Better
> yet ask his wife.

If he really "got in quite a bit of hot water over it," then public
records would exist to back up these scurrilous rumors, wouldn't they?
And, naturally, since you're so well versed in this matter, you'd have
the evidence to back up this up, right?

No? I thought not.

-Paul

William Barwell

unread,
Oct 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/4/97
to

In article <60rd0q$3j9$1...@e3000.supernews.com>, wgert <wg...@loop.com> wrote:
>wri...@eskimo.com (Robert Vaughn Young) wrote:
>
>>
>>Gerry Armstrong made some excellent points in response to my post about
>>the RPF's RPF. It is information that should go to John Travolta and Chick
>>Corea and others who want to promote this cult or defend it.
>>
>>I want to comment on a few of Gerry's points, deleting (unfortunately)
>>some other text to shorten this down. (Also I am unable to attach it as a
>>real reply and part of this thread. My apologies.)

****************** Deleted ******************


>
>comment:
>
>RVY must be looking for more work.


Gertie must be looking for somebody who thinks this sort of attack
will make them forget RPF.

So, Gertie. Tell us how Hubbard proved that 'rock slamming' meant
that Scientologist who had a rock slam read on the E-meter
had to immediately report to RPF.

Let's see if you know something. Well, probably not.
And you are so low on the tone scale you cannot
debate me. You just ignore me because you have nothing
worth saying and you know it. You just slide
down the tone scale, far below me, and slump there. Useless.

Just think lil lurkers. You coul get suckered into the cult.
End up spending several years their, joining the Sea Org.
The one day, your auditor, grim faced, send the C/S a report you had a
rock slam read.

Then because of Hubbard's insane policies, you immediately became
an RPF slave, losing what very few 'privledges' you have on earth.
You are now an RPF slave, for as long as two years.Until you admit to the
cult's satisfaction, that you have admitted your guilt and accepeted it.

And have finally learned to love Big Hubbard.

Sound like a life to you?

Go fer it! You can be just like Gertie!
He is so good at communicating. Well not with me.
Or real people. But I bet he takes cult orders real good.
For Scientology, that's all the communication skills that matter.


That's what RPF is about.
To teach you that and to teach you to be properly grateful
to the cult for teaching you that.

Right Gertie?
Well, speak up, Hubbard gotcher tongue?

William Barwell

unread,
Oct 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/4/97
to

In article <60pq29$6lv$1...@usenet11.supernews.com>, wgert <wg...@loop.com> wrote:
>wri...@eskimo.com (Robert Vaughn Young) wrote:
>
>>
>>Gerry Armstrong made some excellent points in response to my post about
>>the RPF's RPF. It is information that should go to John Travolta and Chick
>>Corea and others who want to promote this cult or defend it.
>>
>>I want to comment on a few of Gerry's points, deleting (unfortunately)
>>some other text to shorten this down. (Also I am unable to attach it as a
>>real reply and part of this thread. My apologies.)
>>
>
>RVY:
>Answer the question - is the below information true? This is taken
>from the Bigots web page? It seems to me that the information below
>is taken directly from your own words.

Sorry Gertie, (and you are one sorry sunuvabitch).
But the topic is RPF and how scummy it all is.
Nasty Five-Minute-of-Hate attacks from you cannot divert us.
It just shows how stupid your cult is, how nasty, how hateful,
how dependent on lies, libels and personal attacks your cult is.
You are so nasty, and so obviously part of this cult's official
efforts.

It makes you look so bad it is easy to believe the worst of the
cult as to RPF and RPF's RPF as related by RVY and many others
here in ARS.

RPF is simply re-education camp, brainwashing camp.
Starting with only 6 hours of sleep being allowed by this cult for
extended periods of time along with hard labor.
Takes the edge off of one's intelligence and makes it so easy to
further indoctrinate one in this intellectually crippled state
of chronic sleep deprivation and fatigue.

Only cults do stuff like this Gertie.

Nasty cults.

If you are so embarressed about it you have to try to libel and
attack RVY and others, it tells us a lot about it.
It must be true or you wouldn't have to stoop to this obvious
tactic while other culties write lame apologies trying to
convince the world it's OK and not as bad as it looks.


People like you illustrate the fact that something is badly wrong with
Scientology.

You are so lost for a counter argument for this ugly
practice used so much by Mao, Stalin and other dictators,
that it pushes you down the tone scale and you can no longer
communicate meaningfully and successfully with real people
anymore.

Sad you wasted so much time and money to reach only this low estate in
life.

Look folks, this is what you become if you stay in Scientology
long enough. A lame loser who can only flourish in the fetid
hothouse atmosphere of a Scientology org.

Sad, isn't it. Stay away from Scientology.
Look what it did for William Gertler, Wgert.

Sad what Scientology does to a once reasonable human being.

William Barwell

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Oct 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/4/97
to

In article <6123ja$eb4$2...@usenet11.supernews.com>, wgert <wg...@loop.com> wrote:
>wbar...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (William Barwell) wrote:
>
>>In article <01bcce4e$13c24140$5c71f482@default>,
>>Åke Wiman <ake....@swipnet.se> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>wgert <wg...@loop.com> wrote <60rej3$jb3$1...@usenet76.supernews.com>...
>>>> til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >In <60hh5p$bn3$2...@usenet76.supernews.com>, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So do you admit that Young did try and molest a 16 year old girl?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Why didn't Co$ go public about this before ?
>>>
>
>>Because they just made this libel up recently.


Well Halleluah!

Gertie boy finally summoned up enough intestinal fortitude
to creep up the tone scale a skoshe and sort of attempt an answer
of sorts to me.
I have only challeneged him to establish some comm with me about
oh, what, 30 times or so?

He must have realized I will answer him, every post,
and make him look bad. Not that he needs much help looking bad.
He must realize he is starting to have a serious SubGenius problem
on his hands.

I use his posts for my own purposes, and by not answering,
he allows me to use his posts to advance "the enemy line"
unopposed.

>
>I suggest you ask him if it is true. He apparently got in quite a bit
>of hot water over it. You don't need to make excuses for it. Better
>yet ask his wife.

I doubt it's worth the trouble from a lie cult that lost
$1.6 million last year for libelling Mr. Hill, a Canadian
member of the Canadian court system.
Who can believe a cult that would purposefully and maliciously
pass on knowing libels like this?

>
>wgert
>Read the Rogues Gallery of ARS Bigots
> www.dancris.com/~rshaw

And Gertie, you still haven't answered any of my embaressing questions.
About teh insane Hubbard dogmas of Stupidology.
Fac one, (Bap! Bap! Bap!) implant stations on Mars, Xenu, BTs,
Clam engrams, do you really belive you can obtain superhuman powers from
this stupid guff?
Yoiu just accept this silly nonsense with no proof?

And what do you William Gertler really think of the fact that
Hubbard was a liar?
That he claimed to have been "crippled and almost blind" at the end of
WWII and abandoned by his family? That instead, he had purposefully
abandoned his wife and child and drove his car and trailer
to Parson's to take part in loathsome black magik sex rituals, not in the
least being crippled or blind?

As proven by Hubbard's own diaries as read by RVY, Gerry Armstrong
and Omar Garrison. Among others.

What's your case level? Are you Sea Org? On
Staff in LA?

I note most clams are so embarressed by their cult association, they
cannot even freely discuss it.

Why is this, Gertie?

Not much of a religion, is it?
Is this the sort of post you designed your rants to
elicit? To be posted all over the world for others to laugh
at the fact I embarress you and you can't even make a decent
attempt to answer me?

Obviously, having been on the net riding your cult's ass
since August 1994, OSA has had a lot of time to investigate me.
Where's my DA file. Gertie?

Funny how I seem to have almost no records at all,
isn't it?

David Gerard

unread,
Oct 5, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/5/97
to

On 4 Oct 1997 19:00:59 -0500,
William Barwell <wbar...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> wrote:

:He must have realized I will answer him, every post,


:and make him look bad. Not that he needs much help looking bad.
:He must realize he is starting to have a serious SubGenius problem
:on his hands.

I think that's called a.r.s.

The CoS does wonder what is up with this SubGenius thing.


--
http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fun/scn/ http://www.suburbia.net/~fun/scn/
I hereby encourage all earthlink.net users to leave for a provider whose
email and Usenet messages are not boycotted by the rest of the net, and
for ISPs to continue to block earthlink.net email and Usenet messages from
Earthlink, until earthlink.net *stop* the flow of junk email and spam.

Dave Bird---St Hippo of Augustine

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Oct 5, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/5/97
to

In article <616k9h$7vs$1...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>,
William Barwell <wbar...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> writes:
>>wgert
>>Read the Rogues Gallery of ARS Bigots
>> www.dancris.com/~r_sole

>
>
>No, it is just a libel passed on from OSA to you. We know how these
>things work. You have no credibility because your cult has no
>credibility. OSA lies, you pass the lies on,


CoS is the buffalo that produces the dung,
and gertie is the beetle that recycles it.


--
^-^-^-@@-^-;-^ http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/
(..)__u news:alt.smoking.mooses

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