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Recap of the story of Miss Bloodybutt - for Tom Klemesrud

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Michael Reuss

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Mar 20, 2001, 3:42:59 AM3/20/01
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> Tom Klemesrud <tom...@WCTAtel.net> wrote:

>I hate thinking back on this; and worse, I hate knowing that many people I respect
>here still don't believe what I said about this.

Tom, I was inclined to believe your story based on your direct account
of the events. After all, the cult was out to squelch both you and
Dennis, and they made no secret about that. They were quite fanatical
and unequivocal.

The methods used against Tom, however bizarre and strange, would fit
in perfectly with the manipulative types of Scientology Black Ops
described by Mike McCloughry in his XenuTV interview video, (which can
be viewed at http://www.xenutv.com/trust/mike.htm )

For those who weren't aware of the story, Tom Klemesrud's BBS was the
upstream provider of Dennis Erlich's a.r.s internet feed back in
1994-95. If you aren't aware of who Dennis Erlich is, then just
realize that back in 1995, he was the cult's enemy #1, just as Bob
Minton is today.

One day, early in 95, Erlich had replied via the BBS feed, to an
anonymously posted a.r.s message containing copyrighted OT materials.
Erlich quoted the message and said simply, "it looks like the actual
OT material to me" (may not be the exact quote, it something very akin
to that). For this awful and terrible and criminal breach (that's a
joke), the RTC actually raided and sued Dennis, while at the same
time, they tried to pressure Tom Klemesrud to cut off Dennis' internet
access. Tom refused, and said that he'd need the RTC to show him proof
of copyright ownership before he would do that. They refused to show
him proof, and instead sued Tom for "contributory infringement."
Sometime later, Tom's liability insurance carrier force Tom to settle
with the cult.

But some time after this all began, Tom got a bit drunk at a bar with
a woman who claimed to be an FBI agent. From Tom's account, it
appeared that she chatting him up and flirting with him. She claimed
to want to see Tom's computer setup. Tom agreed, probably thinking he
might be getting lucky.

So they both went to Tom's apartment (taking a cab, which I found very
commendable, as both were somewhat inebriated). Up to this point,
there doesn't appear to be any disagreement. But from here on out,
there are two, wildly different accounts of what happened. According
to Tom, once in his apartment, things turned ugly. The woman went into
his bathroom, removed her jeans, and he says she took a plastic tube
containing some blood-red goo from between her legs, and began
flinging it around, splashing it on the walls of his apartment.
According to Tom, she told him that she represented Scientology and if
he knew what was good for him, he'd better start doing what
Scientology demanded.

Tom then claimed that he dialed 911 and took a shotgun out of his
closet to protect himself, in case the woman attempted to do anything
even crazier. The cops came. Tom told his version of the story, which
sounds pretty unbelievable. She told the cops her hemorrhoids had been
bleeding and that he had threatened her with the gun. If I recall
correctly, the cops then arrested Tom.

On a.r.s, the Scientology sock puppets sprang into action, bringing
all sorts of DA materials out about Tom and alternative theories about
what happened. They accused him of being not credible, of being
violent, unstable, a drunk, etc. All in all, not unlike the stupid
lies they were recently saying about Mark Bunker following his bogus
arrest in Chicago.

The clambot party line was that the woman in Tom's apartment, whoever
she might be, had nothing whatsoever to do with Scientology, and that
Tom was either hallucinating or simply making up his story about her
claiming to intimidate him in the name of Scientology. They claimed
that he was in a cynical and malicious way, trying to unfairly malign
Scientology for something that involved just him and some drunk
"lady."

By virtue of the sock puppets intense sneering and smearing of both
Tom and Dennis, I was somewhat convinced that Tom's story was probably
the truth.

Tom later posted a transcript of a part of the 911 tape (it was only a
partial, because the LAPD couldn't find the remaining portions of the
recording). The part that was transcribed fit almost exactly with
Tom's earlier recollection of the 911 call, and verified at least that
part of his account. It also made it pretty clear that the name
Scientology had been used in his apartment by his "guest." From the
tape, it was clear that as the blood smearing was happening, Tom
honestly believed an OSA agent was threatening him. He was clearly not
making up a story in a calculated, devious, intentional way. His
somewhat inebriated state also ruled out every possibility except
three. Either he was telling the truth, or else he was an accomplished
actor with a completely devious mind, or he was capable of creating an
elaborate ruse instantly, while under the influence, and under the
stress of having a strange and naked FBI agent woman, bleeding badly
from her butt, in his apartment.

After that, there would have been very little that could have shaken
my confidence in Tom's version of the story.

But then, the cult's version of events were further discredited. In
direct contradiction of the shore stories being fed to the newsgroup
by the clambots, Helena Kobrin took an affidavit from one Linda
Woolard to the L.A. police. Woolard's affidavit claimed that it was
she who was with Tom that night, and it was she who had bloodied Tom's
apartment walls with blood from her hemorrhoids, which she claimed had
erupted and began spurting only after Tom had spontaneously threatened
her with a shotgun.

The affidavit's hemorrhoid story was ludicrous on its face. Moreover,
if Linda Woolard had nothing to do with Scientology, why did she give
her sworn affidavit to Moxon and Kobrin? And how would she even know
about them? How would they know about her?

One of the sock puppets, I believe it was Andrew Milne, weakly claimed
on the newsgroup, that because Scientology was being seen as
unbelievable by a.r.s critics, the cult had decided to seek out the
Woolard woman to find out the truth. But then, how did they find her?
No one knew her real name, as she had given Tom a false name and
falsely claimed to be an FBI agent. How did Scientology find out her
identity if, as Andrew Milne had claimed, she had nothing at all to do
with Scientology?

Milne later floated out a second theory that she must have contacted
Scientology's lawyers after reading all the stories about herself on
the internet. He was pressed on his claim. Did he know if she had done
this, or was this just his acceptable truth shore story? Milne simply
wouldn't say.

The questions arose that if Woolard thought she needed a lawyer, why
would she contact Scientology's lawyers? Why would she not contact a
lawyer out of the yellow pages? Why would she even think she needed to
contact a lawyer at all? After all, she was in no legal trouble, as
far as anyone could tell. No cops appeared to think she needed
arresting for bloodying Tom's walls. No feds appeared to want to
question her for impersonating an FBI agent. Woolard to the best of
anyone's knowledge, had never posted to the newsgroup. If she really
had seen the newsgroup, and wanted to correct false statements, she
could have done so directly, without hiring a lawyer.

Also, contrary to the sock puppet shore story, Kobrin never posted the
affidavit to a.r.s or anywhere else where it would quell criticism.
No, she took the affidavit to the LAPD, probably so she could then use
it as some sort of alleged "police" evidence that she could
subsequently introduce into the civil action they were mounting
against Tom.

I think there is only one conclusion. Quite simply, Scientology tried
to terrorize Tom in order to shut him up, and to coerce his
participation in the silencing of Dennis Erlich.

As unbelievable as all this sounds, the edict to Scientologists to act
this way is right in the LRH policies. Critics were being shown in a
quite literal way, the Scientology policy that says bring actual blood
sex crime evidence to bear against enemies. We were being shown that
Scientology would even stage terrorist acts to manufacture such
evidence.

Needless to say, you stupid OSA culties, it didn't work. And it's
still not working. It's not likely ever to work. Why don't you try a
new tack, like listening, and making reasonable accommodation to the
critics? Nah, what am I saying. The brainwashed will never accept such
woggish 1.1 suggestion as mine, to be kind to people, even those
people they would like to label as enemies.

Oh, BTW, later, an offloaded ex-Scientologist who still was in thrall
to Scientology (Keith Little, posting as 'Whippersnapper') argued
strenuously for the plausibility of Woolard's affidavit, and even went
searching for medical support for the theory that someone's asshole
might actually spurt blood with enough force to have blood hitting the
walls.

He was informed by at least one physician that if someone was bleeding
like that, it would mean ruptured arteries, and the afflicted person
would be in very immediate danger of dying from loss of blood. But did
Linda Woolard's affidavit mention needing medical help? Did she get
weak from loss of blood? No, quite the contrary. According to all
accounts, including her affidavit, she refused medical treatment when
asked by the cops at Tom's apartment. She just waltzed out into the
Los Angeles night, as fit as a fiddle.

I don't know how Whippersnapper ultimately munged that information
around in his mind to exonerated Scientology, but somehow, he seemed
to do it.

So that's the basic story of Miss Bloodybutt. And in 1995, these are
the events that led to Scientology becoming known as the Cult of the
bloody spurtin' hemorrhoid.

As far as I'm concerned, that's a label that still fits today. It will
continue to fit, until those responsible, Mike Rinder, David (*)
Miscavige, Gene Engram (er, I mean Ingram), Helena "Hi HO" Kobrin and
Kendrick Mor^Hxon, not to mention Woolard and Cory Brennan and Andy
Milne, admit to their lies and apologize to Tom Klemesrud for trying
to terrorize him, and until they make some appropriate restitution.

Of course we know that would be more difficult for them than giving a
refund.

Michael Reuss
Honorary Kid

JB Lingerman

unread,
Mar 20, 2001, 5:58:36 AM3/20/01
to
Tom Klemesrud and the Miss Bloody Butt Incident (Scientology Cultist)

Written by Martin Hunt / mar...@islandnet.com / March 23 1997

2.0 Tom Klemesrud and the "Blood Incident"

Who is Tom Klemesrud, who is "Miss Blood", and what is the "Blood
Incident"? In Tom's own words, taken from selected posts to ars:

Note: this section is not included because of Tom's importance on ars
or the investigation into Scientology, but rather to provide one
person's testimony about a Scientology harassment campaign. Many more
stories like Tom's are covered on the net and in the reference books
on Scientology, scary tales of the cult's KGB-like Office of Special
Affairs (OSA) and their bag of dirty tricks used to wage virtual war
on their critics, ex-members and the journalists who report on the
cult's activities alike; this is one such story:

I operate a hobby bulletin board system situated in my apartment in
Hollywood. This bulletin board system provides its subscribers with
access to the Internet through connection to Netcom Online Services, a
commercial access provider.

Prior to January 14, 1995, [the date of the blood incident] I was
contacted by attorneys for the Religious Technology Center
(hereinafter referred to as "RTC"), a Church of Scientology
organization. The attorneys for RTC informed me that a subscriber to
my system, Dennis Erlich, was allegedly violating RTC's copyrighted
materials by making postings of those materials to the Internet. RTC's
attorneys demanded action to block Mr. Erlich's access to the Internet
via my bulletin board system. I contacted RTC's attorneys and
requested that they provide me with copies of the copyrighted
materials so that I could compare it with what Mr. Erlich had posted
to the Internet. They refused to do so and I refused to take action
against Mr. Erlich.

On January 14, 1995, I was in contact with plaintiff [Linda Woolard,
aka "Miss Bloodybutt" herein for the first and only time in my life.

I met the plaintiff at a bar. Contrary to her assertions that I
approached her, she approached me. She identified herself as an agent
for the IRS. Part of our discussion concerned the bulletin board
system I operated and she expressed an interest in seeing the system.
Therefore, the plaintiff accompanied me to my apartment in North
Hollywood.

The bar was in Burbank on my way home. I have not been there for
years. I do not hang out there. I know the management there and is why
I chose to go there. You would think they had to have been following
me.

She--or someone else--had to have at least been following me from the
Burbank airport. The cab driver was the only one who knew where I
wanted to go. We had trouble finding the place too, driving back and
forth on the surrounding streets. They may have been in touch with the
airline, according to info I have.

"Miss Blood" got access to the internet site by claiming to be an IRS
CID agent, re-investigating the tax status of the CoS. I sat down a
light colored dinette chair for her to sit on. There were no stains on
that chair after she had sat on it--I have witnesses. So, she was not
bleeding-- "soaking," before she went into the bathroom.

She excused herself to the bathroom. She took some time, so I checked
on her to find much blood _smeared_ all over the bathroom: On the
floor, walls, shower doors, but little in the toilet. After I had
discovered her, she came out of the bathroom and said: "I am from the
Church of Scientology, and I think that you should do as Thomas Small
has instructed you to do--delete Dennis Erlich from the BBS."

I am just reporting what happened. The first thing she said when I
found her sitting on the toilet in the bathroom with about a pint of
blood on the floor in front of her was: "Tom, we have got to stop
having rough sex like this."

Of course, I was fully clothed, with my shoes on, being a gentleman,
because previous to this, she was an IRS Criminal Investigation
Division agent in my mind. She impersonated one, and dropped names
that are only know previously in confidential files at IRS CID, or to
a former Federal Grand Jury. Woolard was engaging in psychological
terrorism, in my opinion. Or, perhaps she thought by mentioning this
bizarre notion, I might believe it happened.

I was shocked, and went to call for help. She came out of the bathroom
and came to me saying this: "I am a representative of the Church of
Scientology, and I think you should do as attorney Thomas Small has
said you should do--disconnect Dennis Erlich from the Internet."

She immediately returned to the bathroom.

She told me she was sent on a mission to do what she was doing. I
believe she did not know I had called the police and had left the
apartment door wide open for them to come in. She was surprised to see
them. She left several things behind.

Then she came out undressed, saying: "I have been sent on a mission,
and I have been instructed to put some blood in your bed." She said
this courteously, with a smile. As she turned to lay down on the bed,
I saw the sausage of blood nestled in her crotch. She wiggled her butt
in the bed, got up, looked at the stain on the sheets to see if she
liked the stain, and returned to the bathroom. She did this with no
interference from me.

A phone call was placed to 911. However, the telephone call was placed
by me. When the police came to my apartment, I was in fact arrested on
the false allegations of the plaintiff that I threatened her. The
police never pursued these allegations.

She told the police she had a unique medical problem. This problem is
of the type that caused a few pints of blood to be smeared on bathroom
walls, in my shower, on carpets, my chairs, and bed. The medical
problem takes the form of causing all my linens, and new rolls of
toilet paper to be strewn on the floor and rubbed in the produce of
her problem.

In fact, the blood came from a bag, bladder, or balloon nestled in her
crotch. I saw it. If this is a medical problem, then she has an
intestine or artery running outside her body filled with cold almost
coagulated blood.

Subsequent to January 14, 1995, I have made postings to the Internet
to alert Internet users to what I consider to be a "set-up" to coerce
me to censor the free speech rights [of] users of the Internet. At no
time have I ever posted to the Internet or caused or to be posted to
the Internet by others the address or telephone number of plaintiff.

What plaintiff apparently forgot to advise this Court of is that there
is current litigation filed on February 8, 1995, in the United States
District Court for the Northern District of California entitled
Religious Technology Center, a California non-profit corporation; and
Bridge Publications, Inc., a California non-profit corporation v.
Netcom Online Communications Services, Inc., a Delaware corporation;
Dennis Erlich, an individual; and Tom Klemesrud, an individual, dba
Clearwood Data Services, Case Number C-9520091 RMW.

In that action, RTC attempts to hold me, and Netcom Online
Communications responsible for copyright violations of Scientology's
"sacred scriptures." On November 21, 1995, United States District
Court Judge Ronald M. Whyte made the following ruling:

"The Court finds that 'plaintiffs' (RTC) have not met their burden of
showing a likelihood of success on the merits as to either Netcom or
Klemesrud. The only viable theory of infringement is contributory
infringement, and there is little evidence that Netcom or Klemesrud
knew or should have known that Erlich was involved in copyright
infringement of plaintiff's works and was not entitled to a fair use
defense, especially as they did not receive notice of the alleged
infringement until after all but one of the postings was completed.
Further, their participation in the infringement was not substantial.
Accordingly, plaintiffs will not likely prevail on their claims."

Plaintiff's allegations that I have harassed her are totally without
merit. In fact, some allegations of harassment are false on their
face. For example, plaintiff's allegations on page 9 that I was
present at the Whiskey Bend Bar on San Fernando Road in Burbank on May
27, 1995 are false. In fact, on May 27, 1995, I was in Thompson, Iowa
for my father's funeral. (See Exhibits "3" and "4" attached hereto.) I
did not even return to California until May 28, 1995. It is therefore
impossible for plaintiff's absurd allegations that I caused her to
hemorrhage and have to be seen in an emergency room to be true. The
allegation that the plaintiff observed me on the evening of November
16, 1995 standing across the street and staring in the direction of
her apartment is also false. I went to work on November 16, 1995, and
my work hours were from 3:00 p.m. to at least 2:00 a.m. Therefore, it
is again impossible for plaintiff to have observed me.

I have never been to the plaintiff's place of residence in Burbank and
do not intend to go there. I have never threatened the plaintiff,
never assaulted the plaintiff, never stalked the plaintiff, never
harassed the plaintiff, nor do I have any intention to do so in the
future.

The temporary restraining order in place acts as a prior restraint of
speech on my part: "defendant shall not make any Internet postings
about the plaintiff or the 1/14/95 incident involving the plaintiff"
and is a violation of my First Amendment rights. The TRO also
potentially acts to block my attorneys in the RTC v. Netcom case from
performing legitimate reasonable investigation through licensed
investigators to adequately defend me in the unmeritorious lawsuit. It
is my opinion that the application for TRO re harassment is a second
"set up" by Ms. Woolard similar to the way I was set up on January 14,
1995.

Miss Blood's sister revealed to a newspaper reporter Miss Blood has no
medical problems.

And then there is RTC & Bridge Publications vs. Netcom, Dennis Erlich,
and Tom Klemesrud, dba Clearwood Data Services; Exhibit A: "Spread
lurid blood sex crimes -- actual evidence [manufactured] to the press
[on the perceived enemies of the cult] ..." -L. Ron Hubbard, [Tom's
comments in brackets]

This is not a "bizarre incident," it is textbook Hubbard put in to
action: verbatim. It is bizarre to law abiding citizens who now have
to be wondering why this cult that masquerades as a religion, is
getting non-profit organization tax status. That is being looked in to
now.

-AB- came on here with a supposed declaration from a "Linda W" that
was a totally manufactured, and false account of events January 14th,
when she entered my residence, impersonating an IRS CID agent; then
proceeded without my impedance, to smear blood all over the walls,
floors, and furniture in my dwelling--the Internet site of
Support.COM.

As it is turning out, Linda W is a big zero in the databases: I, on
the other hand, am a known, law-abiding, member of the community in
Los Angeles, and have lived here for years. Journalists have found in
database searches that Linda W is coming out to be a zero--so far
non-existent. She dos not have California ID either Driver License, or
valid ID card. She has never sued or been sued; never owned property.
Never been arrested. Does not, and has never subscribed to one
magazine or newspaper. Is not registered to vote. She lives "with her
boyfriend in Burbank," according to the OSA declaration.

-AB- got the name of Linda W at a time when the Los Angeles Police
Department was the only organization--other than possible
conspirators, in this possible HIV blood attack on me--that had her
name.

-AB- either obtained the information, ie., her name and address,
illegally from the Los Angeles Police Department, or was involved in
the actual blood attack--which would be a conspiracy, no? -AB- has
since dropped his anonymous penet.fi account in an apparent attempt to
hide.

Now Vega--that respected anonymous pillar of the news group, comes
along and buys the fabricated story, and gets involved trying to lend
credence to this untruthful story. He states that he has the woman's
name and telephone number and is satisfied that AB's story seems to
check out.

After I had refuted the story, Vega states in error that I had only
refuted who had placed the 911 call, and did not refute the other
ugly, details of this scurrilous story.

Vega said Old Timer has the details of how -AB- obtained the
information. These details that Vega says Old Timer has, may be
evidence in a criminal conspiracy to commit assault--an assault on me,
or possible complicity of law enforcement providing -AB- confidential
LAPD information, or worse.

Old Timer gave credence to the story by saying she/he has a "hunch"
that OSA was not involved, and that the fabricated story may have some
truth in it. BTW, the story has already been factually debunked by
police and journalists.

Both Vega, and Old Timer quoted the entire original libelous -AB-
posting, further dragging my name through the mud for all the world to
see.

The story that Vega and Old Timer supported, ended up to be the Church
of Scientology International, OSA version, with questions to be
addressed to Helena Kobrin, Attorney for Scientology--the Attorney
that originally demanded, a few weeks earlier, that I delete Dennis
Erlich's access to the Net. This OSA version was sent as a FAX to the
Los Angeles Times in an attempt to kill the Daniel Akst Postcard from
Cyberspace story.

I hope you don't think blood attacks from dangerous net abusing cults,
is something we Sysops have to put up with as a routine daily event.

Today [Thursday, November 30th, 1995] Linda Lee Woolard--the woman who
impersonated an IRS Agent January 14th, 1995; then smeared blood all
over my apartment, while saying: "I am a representative from
Scientology, and I think you should do as attorney Thomas Small has
instructed you to do-- disconnect Dennis Erlich from the Internet..."
was served ex parte papers to amend a temporary restraining order she
had file Nov. 21st in Los Angeles Superior Court.

In her application for the temporary restraining order she had asked
that another person, (who I don't want named), stop investigating
Woolard and household members and family; and not to post on the
internet or publicize her name, address, phone number.

Her application and the actual restraining order differed. Here is the
language of the original temporary restraining order:

"The defendant shall not have anyone else, specifically surveil,
follow, telephone, threaten or make physical contact with the
plaintiff. The defendant shall not make any internet posting about the
plaintiff or the 1-14-95 incident involving the plaintiff."

This language is clearly an unconstitutional restrain of 1st Amendment
Free Speech rights.

The above [TRO] was lifted yesterday by Anthony S. Jones in an ex
parte application for an amended TRO, and served on Woolard earlier
today.

In a declaration, that is not signed, or show what the last page is,
Woolard says that on May 27th, 1995 I was stalking her at a bar in
Burbank. In fact I was 1,500 miles away in Thompson, Iowa--for this
was the day of my Dad's funeral.

She said after seeing me at the bar in Burbank watching her, she
"became terrified and ran into the women's bathroom to get away from
him. She immediately began hemorrhaging from her rectum because of the
emotional distress she was once again experiencing by being in the
vicinity [1,500 miles] of the defendant. When her friends went into
the bathroom to see what was wrong they found her bleeding profusely.
They phoned for an ambulance. She was transported and treated in the
emergency room at Thompson Memorial Medical Center in Burbank. Later
at about 6:00 am on May 28th, 1995 she was transferred by ambulance to
Olive View - UCLA Medical Center in Sylmar for further treatment. She
was released later that afternoon."

Unlike in her January 23rd, 1995 sworn declaration--which Scientology
Helena Kobrin FAXed to the Los Angeles Times to kill a story about the
1-14-95 blood attack--in which Woolard says:

"I have never been in a Church of Scientology and I don't know anyone
who is a Scientologist,"

Woolard, in the new declaration says:

"As described above, prior to this incident the Plaintiff had never
been a member of the Church of Scientology, had never known any of its
members and had never taken directions from it."

Subsequent to this incident, I was not unconvinced that she was not a
freezoner trying to set-up Scientology. I even considered that maybe
she was telling the truth--that she was an IRS Agent--perhaps trying
to set Scientology up. If Ingram is half an investigator, he would
have found out that I have the reputation of being very honest. I even
paid back my government guaranteed student loan in the 70's. Yet,
Scientology never considered here, that an honest man might be telling
the truth. They had an opportunity to try to lay this off on the
freezone, and did not take it. I submit it is because it is exactly as
it seems, a bungled Scientology set-up attempt. They know it, and is
why they never considered what I said might be true.

Just as soon as she got the papers lifting the gag order on me,
someone-- perhaps she--moved to pre-empt anything I might post on the
Net by posting the anonymous court papers. Two hours after she was
served, at 2:31 pm PST the anonymous post appeared.

Like I wasn't at the Whiskey Bend bar May 27th, but at my father's
funeral; and like I was working when Woolard reported I was outside
her apartment November 16th, I was not even at the courthouse. [in
response to a claim that Tom got up and ran out of the courthouse
during session] I don't think the Scieno's know exactly what I look
like. Buy the December issue of _Wired_ to see my picture...

Where was I? Home, taking a nap. This second set-up attempt was so
pathetic, it was laughable. I simply don't understand the stories that
this cult was feared in the past. This "technology" doesn't work.

Don Wager, Esq., Linda Woolard's attorney has somehow ascertained the
name of my insurance company, and has contacted my insurance company,
paying for my defense, in an apparent attempt to undermine my
insurance coverage, and defense, in the Federal action RTC & Bridge
Publications V. Erlich, Klemesrud & Netcom.

Woolard's attorney has mis-represented the Superior Court's order of
12/6/95 to my insurance company.

Since the Superior Court case was settled, and Woolard cannot use a
lawyer for small claims, why is Attorney Don Wager working for
Woolard? How is she able to pay him? How did he find out who my
insurance company was? How is he paying for investigation to find this
out facts about me--such as who my insurance company is?

It will be interesting to see if--as in a case against the Cult
Awareness Network--a letter writing campaign from individual
Scientologists to my insurance company, follows the Woolard contact of
my insurance company.

------------------------------------------------------------------------


Tom about a subsequent small claims case brought by Linda Woolard:

After I found out her name January 25th, a journalist checked DMV for
an California ID card on her, and could not find one, though she
claims to have had one. She said in court that she did not know about
the internet, so someone else provided her to ARS messages to submit
to the judge. (However, her occupation on the police report was listed
as "Domputer" [sic]). She submitted medical bills from her emergency
visit to the hospitals after she had a bleeding episode the night of
may 27th. She said I caused that to happen in court by threatening her
at the Burbank bar; when in fact I was in Iowa. She had no other
medical bill to show the court prior to May 28th, 1995.

The court bailiff, a Los Angeles County Sheriff's Deputy was informed
that there may be a warrant out for the private detective sitting in
court next to the Plaintiff, for felony impersonation of a peace
officer. The Deputy had the phone number, a picture and the case and
warrant numbers. He said he would check it out. Yet, Ingram was
allowed to sit peacefully in court next to the LAPD officers for
twenty minutes or more, until he stroll out of the Los Angeles
Municipal Courthouse, a few minutes before the judge asked to talk to
him. Ironically, "impersonating a peace officer," is what I testified
that the Plaintiff did the night of January 14th. It is what the
Plaintiff did, among other things.

If I won, I won. If she won, the award, it is based on untruths told
in court that day: 1) I was in a Burbank bar May 27th; 2) I was
outside her apartment the evening of November 16th; 3) Her original
Superior Court order was upheld in her favor in the hearing December
6th. These statements are demonstrably false, and I would have proved
that if the judge would have given me the chance. Furthermore, they
were demonstrated to her to be untruth in the Superior Court hearing
earlier on December 6th, 1995.

After handing about 15 ARS messages to the judge, she went on to say
she has never heard of "Seismotology," and doesn't know anything about
it.

I had material that would have disproved all of this, but the judge
would not look at my material, or give me the time to mention these
discrepancies. The judge only looked at highlighted ARS postings that
truthfully described the evidence and events of the evening in
question. The plaintiff paid with some sort of anonymous checks, for
the two police officers to come to court. The judge asked them why are
you here. They responded, they didn't know. They did here the
plaintiff make a very serious accusations that she neither mentioned
in the 911 calls, or told to the police at the scene--an accusation
that was faxed by Helena Kobrin from the Church of Scientology
International and OSA, to the Los Angeles Times libeling me.

If Plaintiff is awarded money from my insurance company, it will be
from a case in which incorrect statements where made. This will come
out in the federal case.

Ingram was there, and walked in with her. He left after about twnety
minutes leaving the Plaintiff on her own. Perhaps he had to catch a
plane to Rotterdam.

I want to thank the Plaintiff for paying the LAPD officers to come a
hear the discrepancies between what she told them, and and said on the
two 911 calls; and what she said under oath.

Martin Hunt / mar...@islandnet.com / March 23 1997
---
"I would not interfere with any one's religion, either to strengthen
it or to weaken it. I am not able to believe one's religion
can affect his hereafter one way or the other, no matter what
that religion may be. But it may easily be a great comfort to
him in this life -- hence it is a valuable possession to him."

Mark Twain

ptsc

unread,
Mar 20, 2001, 3:40:08 PM3/20/01
to

>> Tom Klemesrud <tom...@WCTAtel.net> wrote:

Correction. She claimed to be IRS CID.

>So they both went to Tom's apartment (taking a cab, which I found very
>commendable, as both were somewhat inebriated). Up to this point,
>there doesn't appear to be any disagreement. But from here on out,
>there are two, wildly different accounts of what happened. According
>to Tom, once in his apartment, things turned ugly. The woman went into
>his bathroom, removed her jeans, and he says she took a plastic tube
>containing some blood-red goo from between her legs, and began
>flinging it around, splashing it on the walls of his apartment.
>According to Tom, she told him that she represented Scientology and if
>he knew what was good for him, he'd better start doing what
>Scientology demanded.

>Tom then claimed that he dialed 911 and took a shotgun out of his
>closet to protect himself, in case the woman attempted to do anything
>even crazier. The cops came. Tom told his version of the story, which
>sounds pretty unbelievable. She told the cops her hemorrhoids had been
>bleeding and that he had threatened her with the gun. If I recall
>correctly, the cops then arrested Tom.

I don't believe he took the shotgun out of his closet.

It wasn't Helena Kobrin, it was Don Wager who took the affidavit.
Eugene Martin Ingram was also involved.

ptsc

Robert A Crawford

unread,
Mar 20, 2001, 5:03:35 PM3/20/01
to
On Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:40:08 -0500, ptsc <ptscATnymDOTaliasDOTnet> wrote:
<snip>

>>Tom then claimed that he dialed 911 and took a shotgun out of his
>>closet to protect himself, in case the woman attempted to do anything
>>even crazier. The cops came. Tom told his version of the story, which
>>sounds pretty unbelievable. She told the cops her hemorrhoids had been
>>bleeding and that he had threatened her with the gun. If I recall
>>correctly, the cops then arrested Tom.
>I don't believe he took the shotgun out of his closet.

You're drunk. The woman you brought home with you (thinking
she was with the IRS) is now spraying blood around and screaming about
the Co$ and this being a "warning".

What would _you_ do?

Personally, calling 911 and getting something to defend yourself
with seems reasonable and sane.

--
craw...@iac.net

ptsc

unread,
Mar 20, 2001, 5:26:39 PM3/20/01
to
On 20 Mar 2001 16:03:35 -0600, craw...@kloognome.com (Robert A Crawford)
wrote:

> What would _you_ do?

I have not heard this detail in any other recounting of the event, therefore I
think this detail is mistaken.

ptsc

Robert A Crawford

unread,
Mar 20, 2001, 7:42:50 PM3/20/01
to
On Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:26:39 -0500, ptsc <ptscATnymDOTaliasDOTnet> wrote:
>On 20 Mar 2001 16:03:35 -0600, craw...@kloognome.com (Robert A Crawford)
>wrote:
>>>I don't believe he took the shotgun out of his closet.
>> Personally, calling 911 and getting something to defend yourself
>>with seems reasonable and sane.
>I have not heard this detail in any other recounting of the event, therefore I
>think this detail is mistaken.

Ah!

I misunderstood your statement.

My apologies.

--
craw...@iac.net

Another Troll

unread,
Mar 20, 2001, 8:06:18 PM3/20/01
to
On 20 Mar 2001 16:03:35 -0600, craw...@kloognome.com (Robert A
Crawford) wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:40:08 -0500, ptsc <ptscATnymDOTaliasDOTnet> wrote:
> <snip>

> >I don't believe he took the shotgun out of his closet.

> You're drunk. The woman you brought home with you (thinking
> she was with the IRS) is now spraying blood around and screaming about
> the Co$ and this being a "warning".
>
> What would _you_ do?

Unless one has been there, i.e., in the same situation, I think one
cannot fault him for not acting in a manner that would have been more
self-preservationist after the fact (that is, facing law enforcement
and answering questions). The solution is, of course, to never bring
home strangers, and to certainly never get drunk--- and sure ass hell
never do both.

If Ms. Bloodybutt had not been just as drunk, Mr. Klemesrud would be
in prison right now for murder, and the cops would still be asking him
what he did with the body. If Ms. Bloodybutt had been sober, a mere
anonymous telephone call to the police saying "There's been a murder!"
and sending the police to Klemesrud's residence would probably have
followed the blood-spreading.

The questions are still many:

1) Was it human blood?

2) If it was human blood, where / who did it come from?

3) How much blood was it?

4) Since Scientology lawyers and the criminal Martin Engram were
involved in the attempted frame-up, Klemesrud could make at the very
least a tenuous civil lawsuit against them.

> Personally, calling 911 and getting something to defend yourself
> with seems reasonable and sane.

---
"He stands erect by bending over the fallen. He rises by lifting others."
"I would rather live and love where death is king than have eternal life where love is not."

Robert Green Ingersoll

Starshadow

unread,
Mar 20, 2001, 8:36:55 PM3/20/01
to
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

"Another Troll" <atr...@devon.ut.gov> wrote in message
news:3ab7fc4d.767051@localhost...


> On 20 Mar 2001 16:03:35 -0600, craw...@kloognome.com (Robert A
> Crawford) wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:40:08 -0500, ptsc
> > <ptscATnymDOTaliasDOTnet> wrote: <snip>
>
> > >I don't believe he took the shotgun out of his closet.
>
> > You're drunk. The woman you brought home with you (thinking
> > she was with the IRS) is now spraying blood around and screaming
> > about the Co$ and this being a "warning".
> >
> > What would _you_ do?
>
> Unless one has been there, i.e., in the same situation, I think one
> cannot fault him for not acting in a manner that would have been
> more self-preservationist after the fact (that is, facing law
> enforcement and answering questions). The solution is, of course,
> to never bring home strangers, and to certainly never get drunk---
> and sure ass hell never do both.
>
> If Ms. Bloodybutt had not been just as drunk, Mr. Klemesrud would
> be in prison right now for murder, and the cops would still be
> asking him what he did with the body. If Ms. Bloodybutt had been
> sober, a mere anonymous telephone call to the police saying
> "There's been a murder!" and sending the police to Klemesrud's
> residence would probably have followed the blood-spreading.

Now my memory isn't as good as it used to be but it seems to me Tom
explicitly said he'd only had one drink, and he thought perhaps
something was placed in that drink, for him to get so incoherant so
fast.

Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone, including Tom.

> The questions are still many:
>
> 1) Was it human blood?
>
> 2) If it was human blood, where / who did it come from?
>
> 3) How much blood was it?
>
> 4) Since Scientology lawyers and the criminal Martin Engram were
> involved in the attempted frame-up, Klemesrud could make at the
> very least a tenuous civil lawsuit against them.
>
> > Personally, calling 911 and getting something to defend yourself
> > with seems reasonable and sane.
> ---
> "He stands erect by bending over the fallen. He rises by lifting
> others." "I would rather live and love where death is king than
> have eternal life where love is not."
>
> Robert Green Ingersoll

- --
Bright Blessings,

Starshadow, KoX, SP4, Official Wiccan Chaplain ARSCC(wdne)

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Robert A Crawford

unread,
Mar 20, 2001, 8:34:31 PM3/20/01
to
On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 01:06:18 GMT, Another Troll <atr...@devon.ut.gov> wrote:
>On 20 Mar 2001 16:03:35 -0600, craw...@kloognome.com (Robert A
>Crawford) wrote:
>> You're drunk. The woman you brought home with you (thinking
>> she was with the IRS) is now spraying blood around and screaming about
>> the Co$ and this being a "warning".
>> What would _you_ do?
>Unless one has been there, i.e., in the same situation, I think one
>cannot fault him for not acting in a manner that would have been more
>self-preservationist after the fact (that is, facing law enforcement
>and answering questions). The solution is, of course, to never bring
>home strangers, and to certainly never get drunk--- and sure ass hell
>never do both.

Yep.

>If Ms. Bloodybutt had not been just as drunk, Mr. Klemesrud would be
>in prison right now for murder, and the cops would still be asking him
>what he did with the body. If Ms. Bloodybutt had been sober, a mere
>anonymous telephone call to the police saying "There's been a murder!"
>and sending the police to Klemesrud's residence would probably have
>followed the blood-spreading.

I had that idea, too. It would make a great plot device for
a mystery or thriller novel. I wish I could write.

>The questions are still many:
>1) Was it human blood?
>2) If it was human blood, where / who did it come from?
>3) How much blood was it?

Sadly, we'll never know.

--
craw...@iac.net

Rev Fredric L. Rice

unread,
Mar 21, 2001, 8:47:01 AM3/21/01
to
Michael Reuss <michae...@home.com> wrote:

>> Tom Klemesrud <tom...@WCTAtel.net> wrote:

>>I hate thinking back on this; and worse, I hate knowing that many people I respect
>>here still don't believe what I said about this.

>Tom, I was inclined to believe your story based on your direct account
>of the events. After all, the cult was out to squelch both you and
>Dennis, and they made no secret about that. They were quite fanatical
>and unequivocal.

...massive cuts...flr...

I think that everyone who's ever protested against the cult's human rights
and civil rights violations can recognize that Tom's account of how the
crooks tried to "Fair Game" him is entirely in keeping with the Scientology
organization's history and contemporary activities. No story no matter how
freakishly bizarre is out of bounds when the cult's motive is an attempt to
silence someone from spoeaking out about the cult's rights abuses.

---
Send information concerning incidents of racketeering and
terrorism by the Scientology cult to the Domestic Terrorism
Task Force at nor...@fbi.gov http://www.skeptictank.org/
For psychological assistance check: http://www.shrinktank.com/

Rev Fredric L. Rice

unread,
Mar 21, 2001, 8:49:40 AM3/21/01
to
craw...@kloognome.com (Robert A Crawford) wrote:

> What would _you_ do?

Tom did that and later the female OSA agent did the same. What's even more
informative is that the female Scientology OSA agent disappeared and the cops
couldn't find her to explain what she was doing spreading animal blood all
over a hotel room. In an age of HIV, I wonder if this little Svcientology
trick could be considered a fatal terrorist threat.

Rev Fredric L. Rice

unread,
Mar 21, 2001, 8:52:48 AM3/21/01
to
atr...@devon.ut.gov (Another Troll) wrote:

>On 20 Mar 2001 16:03:35 -0600, craw...@kloognome.com (Robert A
>Crawford) wrote:

It's also interesting to note that the Scientology cult put on a show of
trying to locate this female OSA agent of theirs. They tried to deny that
she was one of theirs and yet when a message was posted purportedly to be
from Miss Bloody Butt, the Scientology crooks put on a show of trying to
track her identity down.

Since she was apparenlt working out of Moxon's office, I would think that
her identity would be known to the crooks.

>Robert Green Ingersoll

---

arnie lerma

unread,
Mar 21, 2001, 9:42:30 PM3/21/01
to
On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:47:01 GMT, fr...@SPAMNOTlinkline.com (Rev
Fredric L. Rice) wrote:

>Michael Reuss <michae...@home.com> wrote:
>
>>> Tom Klemesrud <tom...@WCTAtel.net> wrote:
>
>>>I hate thinking back on this; and worse, I hate knowing that many people I respect
>>>here still don't believe what I said about this.

Tom, based on my experinces fighting the nut cult,
i believe you.

arnie lerma


>
>>Tom, I was inclined to believe your story based on your direct account
>>of the events. After all, the cult was out to squelch both you and
>>Dennis, and they made no secret about that. They were quite fanatical
>>and unequivocal.
>
>...massive cuts...flr...
>
>I think that everyone who's ever protested against the cult's human rights
>and civil rights violations can recognize that Tom's account of how the
>crooks tried to "Fair Game" him is entirely in keeping with the Scientology
>organization's history and contemporary activities. No story no matter how
>freakishly bizarre is out of bounds when the cult's motive is an attempt to
>silence someone from spoeaking out about the cult's rights abuses.
>
>---
>Send information concerning incidents of racketeering and
>terrorism by the Scientology cult to the Domestic Terrorism
>Task Force at nor...@fbi.gov http://www.skeptictank.org/
>For psychological assistance check: http://www.shrinktank.com/
>

I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speak.
The only thing that always works in scientology are its lawyers
The internet is the liberty tree of the 90's
http://www.lermanet.com - mentioned 4 January 2000 in
The Washington Post's - 'Reliable Source' column re "Scientologist with no HEAD"

barb

unread,
Mar 22, 2001, 8:07:06 AM3/22/01
to

The thing I still don't understand is this; why in the world would the
stupid woman TELL Tom she was with Scientology?
Had she kept her silly yap shut, he wouldn't have called 911, or known
about the blood smeared in the bathroom. The op would have run
perfectly, he would have gone to jail with no idea what happened to him,
as he thought he was dealing with an FBI agent.

I wonder too, had that happened, would the police have bothered to test
the blood in the bathroom against that woman's bloodtype? Was it even
real blood? Dog, hog, or otherwise?

That woman really slopped the op. Thank goodness for Tom's sake that
incompetence is a byproduct of scientology!
--
Barb
Chaplain, ARSCC
http://members.home.net/bwarr1/index.htm (this site is down right now.)
http://www.geocities.com/bwarr_2000/ mirror site

"Every week, every month, every year, every decade and now
every century, Scientology does weird and stupid things
to damage its own reputation."
-Steve Zadarnowski

"Comparing Scientology to a motorcycle gang is a gross, unpardonable
insult to bikers everywhere. Even at our worst, we are never as bad as
Scientology."
-ex-member, Thunderclouds motorcycle "club"

M. C. DiPietra

unread,
Mar 22, 2001, 8:09:26 AM3/22/01
to
in article tbin3up...@corp.supernews.com, Rev Fredric L. Rice at
fr...@SPAMNOTlinkline.com wrote on 3/21/01 8:49 AM:

> craw...@kloognome.com (Robert A Crawford) wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:40:08 -0500, ptsc <ptscATnymDOTaliasDOTnet> wrote:
>> <snip>
>>>> Tom then claimed that he dialed 911 and took a shotgun out of his
>>>> closet to protect himself, in case the woman attempted to do anything
>>>> even crazier. The cops came. Tom told his version of the story, which
>>>> sounds pretty unbelievable. She told the cops her hemorrhoids had been
>>>> bleeding and that he had threatened her with the gun. If I recall
>>>> correctly, the cops then arrested Tom.
>>> I don't believe he took the shotgun out of his closet.
>
>> You're drunk. The woman you brought home with you (thinking
>> she was with the IRS) is now spraying blood around and screaming
>> about the Co$ and this being a "warning".
>
>> What would _you_ do?
>
>> Personally, calling 911 and getting something to defend yourself
>> with seems reasonable and sane.
>
> Tom did that and later the female OSA agent did the same. What's even more
> informative is that the female Scientology OSA agent disappeared and the cops
> couldn't find her to explain what she was doing spreading animal blood all
> over a hotel room. In an age of HIV, I wonder if this little Svcientology
> trick could be considered a fatal terrorist threat.
>

I'd say it was more of one, and more of a personal nature, than Scn Inc.,
pointing fingers at Keith Henson and saying he's a terrorist because he
might know something about explosives.


> ---
> Send information concerning incidents of racketeering and
> terrorism by the Scientology cult to the Domestic Terrorism
> Task Force at nor...@fbi.gov http://www.skeptictank.org/
> For psychological assistance check: http://www.shrinktank.com/
>

http://mp3.com/MaggieCouncil XENU WORLD ORDER CD now available
M.C.DiPietra <mdip...@earthlink.net>, SP4, KoX
"Hell, if you understood everything I say, you'd be me!" -Miles Davis

ptsc

unread,
Mar 22, 2001, 8:19:02 AM3/22/01
to
On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:52:48 GMT, fr...@SPAMNOTlinkline.com (Rev Fredric L.
Rice) wrote:

>atr...@devon.ut.gov (Another Troll) wrote:

>>On 20 Mar 2001 16:03:35 -0600, craw...@kloognome.com (Robert A
>>Crawford) wrote:

>It's also interesting to note that the Scientology cult put on a show of
>trying to locate this female OSA agent of theirs. They tried to deny that
>she was one of theirs and yet when a message was posted purportedly to be
>from Miss Bloody Butt, the Scientology crooks put on a show of trying to
>track her identity down.

>Since she was apparenlt working out of Moxon's office, I would think that
>her identity would be known to the crooks.

Her first action on leaving Tom Klemesrud's was to call Eugene Martin Ingram.
Her second action was to have an interview with Scientology lawyer Don Wager.
Shortly afterwards, a seeming DA pack was prematurely posted by -AB-, who
Klemesrud alleges to be Thomas Gerard Rummelhart. This concerned Tom
Klemesrud, and was a statement apparently supporting Linda Woolard's version of
events. This was posted through anon.penet.fi. Scientology contacted the
Finnish police, alleging that information about Linda Woolard was stolen from
their internal computer network (presumably INCOMM). Officer Kaj Malmberg of
Helsinki responded and a legal standoff concerning the data occurred, which
ended with divulging the identity of said -AB-, who then was never seen again
(unless Tom K or someone else has information otherwise).

The claim that "Linda Woolard" or whatever her name really was had nothing to
do with Scientology causes very serious questions to arise. If she had nothing
to do with Scientology, then why did she immediately call Scientology private
investigator and former (?) pimp Eugene Martin Ingram right after the frame-up
incident? Why then did she immediately give a statement to Scientology lawyer
Don Wager? Why was information concerning her posted through anon.penet.fi and
why did Scientology lawyers immediately claim to Finnish police that this was
confidential information stolen from their internal computer network?

This leads to the obvious conclusion that "Linda Woolard" was a Scientology
agent, as she claimed to Tom Klemesrud in the first place.

Here are Kaj Malmberg's posts on the subject--note that Kaj's identity as a
Finnish police officer was independently verified at the time, making him, I
believe, the only law enforcement officer ever to post to
alt.religion.scientology in an official capacity.

He was, of course, immediately accused of being a Scientologist ;-)

---

From kaj.ma...@mallu.pp.fi Sat Jul 08 21:14:10 1995
From: kaj.ma...@mallu.pp.fi (Kaj Malmberg)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Helsinki police contact info
Date: 8 Jul 1995 19:14:10 GMT
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <3tmle2$1...@idefix.eunet.fi>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mallu.pp.fi
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.91.6

I am the police officer in Finland who conducted the raid on the Anon
Server in Helsinki.
Any questions about why and what I did can be sent to me. I will answer
the parts than are not classified.

Kaj Malmberg
det.sgt.
Helsinki Police

kaj.ma...@helsinki.poliisi.mailnet.fi

---

From kaj.ma...@mallu.pp.fi Tue Jul 11 19:28:25 1995
From: kaj.ma...@mallu.pp.fi (Kaj Malmberg)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Finnish Police Contact info and more..
Date: 11 Jul 1995 17:28:25 GMT
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <3tucbp$n...@idefix.eunet.fi>
References: <3tocce$i...@idefix.eunet.fi> <tomklemD...@netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mallu.pp.fi
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.91.6

I am not interested in any cults, they do not fitt my way of seeing the
world. I do not want any scientology material,

---

From ???@??? Sun Jul 09 04:00:32 1995
Received: from nova.unix.portal.com (nova.unix.portal.com

Received: from personal.eunet.fi (personal.eunet.fi [192.26.119.4]) by
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Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 1995 12:34:24 +0300
To: H Keith Henson <hkhe...@shell.portal.com>
From: kaj.ma...@mallu.pp.fi (Kaj Malmberg)
Subject: Re: Helsinki police contact info
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

>Dear Detective Malmberg:
>X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
>
>Thank you very much for posting your email address to alt.religion.
>scientology. As you likely already know, there are many questions
>the people there have about the raid.
>
>I guess the most important question we have is about the origin of
>the orders for the raid. No police organization has been found in
>the United States which made the original request to Interpol. It
>seems likely at this point that the Scientologist organization made
>a private request to Interpol. Can you tell us if the raid was the
>result such a request?
>
This Scientology case started on day when a lawyer from a very respected law
office contacted us and said he was representing the Church of Scientology
and that he had in his office a privat investigator from the United States
that had come here to investigate on behalf of the church.

They came to my office in Helsinki and told me that someone had penetrated
in to a computer in Los Angeles and taken secret information form it. The
computer was the property of the Church of Scientology.


>I don't know much about Interpol. Do they normally respond to non
>law enforcement requests? Do you have any way of determining who
>the raid request came from?
>
Interpol is not a policeorganization. Most of the countries in the world
have joined Interpol and therefore assign a part of its organization to be
called Interpol. Interpol does not investigate crimes nore excecute any
police duties. It only sends mail from one country to another and keep
registers.
If I want to send a letter to a law enforcement agency in another country, I
send it to our local Interpol, that sends it to the other country and to its
Interpol agency, that in turn sends it ot the local police.
Interpol never has an active part in investigating crimes.

>Did you turn the name you aquired from Penet over to the Scientologists
>directly?
>
When I got the information from Helsingius, I could see that the crime had
been committed from the United States. I had seen a document that showed me
that there was an investigation about the same case in Los Angeles.

As there was an investigation going on in the United States and it the crime
had been commited from there we decided to end our investigation. I wrote a
letter ot our Interpol and asked them to forward our findings to the police
in Los Angeles.

I gave the results of our investigation to the person who had reported the
crime, the finnish lawyer.

>If you have been following this story, you may know that the person
>known as -AB- was located by the Church of Scientology. This person
>can no longer be located, and there is wide speculation that he was
>killed.
>
I really have not heard anything about what has happened after I left tha case.
That was it. I do not know what has happened after that in Los Angeles to
the investigation there. Police organizations do not report to other
countries their results.
>As far as I know, noone blames the Finland Police or yourself for
>what happened. But we are very concerned for the level of influence
>which the CoS seems to have over Interpol.
>
>Thanks for any answers you may be able to provide. You may post
>this letter as part of your response if you wish. Unless you ask
>me not to, I will post your reply to a.r.s, because there is wide
>interest in this topic.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Keith Henson
>San Jose, CA, USA
>
>
Tahnk your for your letter. I hope you have som use of my answer.

Kaj Malmberg
Helsinki Police

--------------------

I certainly appreciate Detective Malmberg coming forward with this
information. It seems from these reports that Interpol was involved
only after the fact. Since Julf is there, and rather interested in
the case, perhaps he could pick up the report? I would be happy to
forward the cost to Julf, plus something for his time translating and
posting to this group.

It would also be of great interest to know the name of the investigator
CoS sent to Finland, and just exactly who got the report routed through
Interpol after the name was obtained. Keith Henson

---

From kaj.ma...@mallu.pp.fi Sun Jul 09 12:51:58 1995
From: kaj.ma...@mallu.pp.fi (Kaj Malmberg)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Finnish Police Contact info and more..
Date: 9 Jul 1995 10:51:58 GMT
Lines: 79
Message-ID: <3tocce$i...@idefix.eunet.fi>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mallu.pp.fi
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.91.6

I work at the Helsinki Police Criminal Investigating Departement in
Helsinki. I investigate economic crimes and crimes that involves the use
of a computers.
Helsinki Police Department is the local police.

Interpol is not a policeorganization. Most of the countries in the world
have joined Interpol and therefore assign a part of its organization to
be called Interpol. Interpol does not investigate crimes nore excecute
any police duties. It only sends mail from one country to another and
keep registers.
If I want to send a letter to a law enforcement agency in another
country, I send it to our local Interpol, that sends it to the other
country and to its Interpol agency, that in turn sends it ot the local
police.
Interpol never has an active part in investigating crimes.

This Scientology case started on day when a lawyer from a very respected
law office contacted us and said he was representing the Church of
Scientology and that he had in his office a privat investigator from the
United States that had come here to investigate on behalf of the church.

They came to my office in Helsinki and told me that someone had
penetrated in to a computer in Los Angeles and taken secret information
form it. The computer was the property of the Church of Scientology.

The investigator had found out that the penetrator had come into the
computer from Finland and their last information about the person ended
at the Anon Penet computer in Helsinki.

I was asked by the Church of Scientology to start an investigation
because a crime had been committed. They told me that Johan Helsingius at
Eunet Finland did not give them the information they needed, the identity
of the person who had committed the crime.

We took the case under consideration with my boss Harri Pulkkinen.
He has the authority to issue a search warrant by law in Finland.

A search warrant can be issued if there are reasons to believe that a
crime has been committed, a crime that you can get at least a 6 months
prison sentence for, and that there are reasons to believe that evidence
in that particular case can be found in the place where the search will
be held.

A crime had been reported, evidence to solve the crime could be found.
The only thing we could do was to get the information from the Anon
server. A search warrant was issued and it was served to Johan
Helsingius. Without us searching the hole computer, Helsingius gave us
the information we wanted.

When I got the information from Helsingius, I could see that the crime
had been committed from the United States. I had seen a document that
showed me that there was an investigation about the same case in Los
Angeles.

As there was an investigation going on in the United States and it the
crime had been commited from there we decided to end our investigation. I
wrote a letter ot our Interpol and asked them to forward our findings to
the police in Los Angeles.

I gave the results of our investigation to the person who had reported
the crime, the finnish lawyer.

That was it. I do not know what has happened after that in Los Angeles to
the investigation there. Police organizations do not report to other
countries their results.

If someone reports a crime we must act. We do not have the wright to
refuse an investigation if there are reasons to believe, that a crime has
been committed, if we did we would end up in jail.–––––

As we the investigation has come an end, all documents are public.
Anyone has the wright to get copies. You only have to pay s small sum for
copying them. I cannot send them by the Internet but if someone in
Finland got them from our office, that person could send them to everyone
on the net.

My office telephone: +358-0-189 5425. I work from 8 - 16 (+3 GMT). My
office mail: kaj.ma...@helsinki.poliisi.mailnet.fi.

---

From ro...@ccs.neu.edu Sun Jul 09 16:40:30 1995
From: ro...@ccs.neu.edu (R Agent)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Finnish Police Contact info and more..
Date: 9 Jul 1995 14:40:30 GMT
Organization: College of Computer Science, Northeastern University
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <3topou$r...@camelot.ccs.neu.edu>
References: <3tocce$i...@idefix.eunet.fi>
NNTP-Posting-Host: denali.ccs.neu.edu

In article <3tocce$i...@idefix.eunet.fi>,
Kaj Malmberg <kaj.ma...@mallu.pp.fi> wrote:
[...]
>When I got the information from Helsingius, I could see that the crime
>had been committed from the United States. I had seen a document that
>showed me that there was an investigation about the same case in Los
>Angeles.

Is the document about the LA investigation in your local file, which
you say we can get copies of? This would be very helpful in tracking
the source of the leak.

>As there was an investigation going on in the United States and it the
>crime had been commited from there we decided to end our investigation. I
>wrote a letter ot our Interpol and asked them to forward our findings to
>the police in Los Angeles.

Your "findings" included the name of the user from anon.penet.fi, yes?
So you gave the name to your Interpol and asked them to give it to the
LA police?

>I gave the results of our investigation to the person who had reported
>the crime, the finnish lawyer.

When you say you gave the "results" to the Finnish lawyer, do you mean
you told him you had the name and gave it to your Interpol, or do you
mean you gave the name to the lawyer directly?

[...]
>As we the investigation has come an end, all documents are public.
>Anyone has the wright to get copies. You only have to pay s small sum for
>copying them. I cannot send them by the Internet but if someone in
>Finland got them from our office, that person could send them to everyone
>on the net.

I think someone will be taking you up on this quite soon. Thanks very
much for the information.

>My office telephone: +358-0-189 5425. I work from 8 - 16 (+3 GMT). My
>office mail: kaj.ma...@helsinki.poliisi.mailnet.fi.

[posted and mailed]

RA

ro...@ccs.neu.edu (Rogue Agent/KoX/ACT Kha Khan/ARS Project Entheta IC)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas
of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new
research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and
ask for one.

---

From cyb...@io.org Sun Jul 09 17:30:47 1995
From: cyb...@io.org (x)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Finnish Police Contact info and more..
Date: 9 Jul 1995 11:30:47 -0400
Organization: Internex Online (Data: 363-3783/Telnet: io.org)
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <3tosn7$e...@ionews.io.org>
References: <3tocce$i...@idefix.eunet.fi>
NNTP-Posting-Host: r-node.io.org

Kaj Malmberg <kaj.ma...@mallu.pp.fi> wrote:

>A search warrant can be issued if there are reasons to believe that a
>crime has been committed, a crime that you can get at least a 6 months
>prison sentence for, and that there are reasons to believe that evidence
>in that particular case can be found in the place where the search will
>be held.
>
>A crime had been reported, evidence to solve the crime could be found.

A crime has been committed all right. The crime of False Pretense or
Public Mischief.

>As we the investigation has come an end, all documents are public.
>Anyone has the wright to get copies. You only have to pay s small sum for
>copying them. I cannot send them by the Internet but if someone in
>Finland got them from our office, that person could send them to everyone
>on the net.

This will be very helpful. What is the case number, and what is the
name and address for payment?

---

From anon-r...@utopia.hacktic.nl Sun Jul 09 19:15:00 1995
From: Anonymous <anon-r...@utopia.hacktic.nl>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Finnish Police Contact info and more..
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 1995 19:15:00 +0200
Organization: Hack-Tic International, Inc.
Lines: 121
Message-ID: <1995070917...@utopia.hacktic.nl>
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: utopia.hacktic.nl
Comments: Hack-Tic may or may not approve of the content of this posting
Comments: Please report misuse of this automated remailing service to
<postm...@utopia.hacktic.nl>

In article <3tocce$i...@idefix.eunet.fi>
kaj.ma...@mallu.pp.fi "Kaj Malmberg" writes:

> I work at the Helsinki Police Criminal Investigating Departement in
> Helsinki. I investigate economic crimes and crimes that involves the use
> of a computers. Helsinki Police Department is the local police.

Isn't it a pity that you seem to know so very little about what is and isn't
possible in terms of hacking? (Most flatfoots don't, btw)

> If I want to send a letter to a law enforcement agency in another
> country, I send it to our local Interpol, that sends it to the other
> country and to its Interpol agency, that in turn sends it to the local
> police. Interpol never has an active part in investigating crimes.

Gee, really?

> This Scientology case started on day when a lawyer from a very respected
> law office contacted us and said he was representing the Church of
> Scientology and that he had in his office a privat investigator from the
> United States that had come here to investigate on behalf of the church.

So why wasn't it referred to the Finnish police, through Interpol?

> They came to my office in Helsinki and told me that someone had
> penetrated in to a computer in Los Angeles and taken secret information
> form it. The computer was the property of the Church of Scientology.

Even were that true, no crime would appear to have been committed in Finnish
jurisdiction, so why did they seek to involve the Finnish police? Don't you
bother to ask these questions, or do you "only obey orders"? Or is this
account that you've belatedly put up just another load of Scieno bullshit?

> The investigator had found out that the penetrator had come into the
> computer from Finland and their last information about the person ended
> at the Anon Penet computer in Helsinki.

Which was a lie on the part of the Scientologists and, moreover, it was an
obvious lie; there is no way that the alleged hack could have been done through
the anon.penet remailer. Didn't you trouble to ask them how such an alleged
offence could have been committed? Or did you just assume that the alleged
crime was done by a Finnish citizen?

So, now that it's been established that the private investigator told lies to
get the information, what has been done about those lies he told? Isn't
telling lies to the police that they may investigate a non-existent crime
itself a serious criminal offence in Finland?

Was the PI one Eugene Ingram, by any chance?

The same Eugene Ingram who is wanted for several alleged offences Stateside?

Do you now understand why you're making the Finnish police seem less credible
than the Keystone Kops?

> I was asked by the Church of Scientology to start an investigation
> because a crime had been committed. They told me that Johan Helsingius at
> Eunet Finland did not give them the information they needed, the identity
> of the person who had committed the crime.
>
> We took the case under consideration with my boss Harri Pulkkinen.

... on the basis that two heads are better than one, even if neither really
knows much about the subject?

> A search warrant can be issued if there are reasons to believe that a
> crime has been committed, a crime that you can get at least a 6 months
> prison sentence for, and that there are reasons to believe that evidence
> in that particular case can be found in the place where the search will
> be held.

And if the offence has been committed in Finnish jurisduction or if the alleged
offence is one for which extradition may be granted? Or do you regularly
search people's property on the say-so of some spiv from a crackpot cult?

> When I got the information from Helsingius, I could see that the crime
> had been committed from the United States. I had seen a document that
> showed me that there was an investigation about the same case in Los
> Angeles.

And therefore you could see that no crime had, in fact, been committed in
Finnish juridiction and that you had been lied to by the Scieno spiv.

> As there was an investigation going on in the United States and it the
> crime had been commited from there we decided to end our investigation.

You weren't interested that you'd been tricked or that lies had been told to
you? Why not?

> I gave the results of our investigation to the person who had reported
> the crime, the finnish lawyer.

Is that not, of itself, a gross violation of correct procedure - apart from
your having seemed to have convicted the suspect all by yourself?

Would you have done the same, if the tale had involved the Mafia?

> If someone reports a crime we must act. We do not have the wright to
> refuse an investigation if there are reasons to believe, that a crime has
> been committed, if we did we would end up in jail.

So, what are you doing about the way that the Finnish police were tricked,
cheated and conned? Or do you imagine that laying false information before the
police isn't a crime?

One last question: Are you, in fact, a Scientologist?

+-------+
| Culex | "The Infamous Culex"
+-------+

==============================================================================
Support Dennis Erlich! Send cheques (any currency) payable to
Morrison & Foerster and labelled DENNIS ERLICH DEFENCE FUND to:
Carla Oakley/Katie Walsh, MORRISON & FOERSTER, 345 California St,
San Francisco CA 94104-2675 Tel (415) 677-7700
For verification of this info, email sst...@eff.org (Shari Steele)
==============================================================================

---

From kaj.ma...@mallu.pp.fi Thu Jul 20 20:28:54 1995
From: kaj.ma...@mallu.pp.fi (Kaj Malmberg)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Helsinki Police documents [images]
Date: 20 Jul 1995 18:28:54 GMT
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <3um797$1...@idefix.eunet.fi>
References: <1995071904...@utopia.hacktic.nl>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mallu.pp.fi
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.91.6


Translation:
This year between January 21 at 12.44 Finnsih time 12.44 and January 23.
22.07 somebody unknown penetrated without permission the CSI
computersystem and has used the computer and stole from it information
stored in electronic form.

This translation has been done by Kaj Malmberg.

Free Bird

unread,
Mar 22, 2001, 3:25:13 PM3/22/01
to
(large trim)

> Kaj Malmberg
> det.sgt.
> Helsinki Police

> This Scientology case started on day when a lawyer from a very respected law


> office contacted us and said he was representing the Church of Scientology
> and that he had in his office a privat investigator from the United States
> that had come here to investigate on behalf of the church.
>
> They came to my office in Helsinki and told me that someone had penetrated
> in to a computer in Los Angeles and taken secret information form it. The
> computer was the property of the Church of Scientology.

Obviously that was a lie told by the kriminal kult to the police
officer.

Scientology's OSA department had one or two of it's "agents" work on a
DA package including the incident even before Ms. Bloodybutt tried to
frame Tom Klemesrud. That DA package was to included the claim that
Tom Klemesrud was being questioned by the police about murdering a
woman. (An anonymous telephone call to the police by a woman screaming
for help was probably planned, but the woman was too drunk to perform
the call or remember to call.) The plan was to make Tom Klemesrud
appear that he had murdered someone and then successfully hide /
dispose of the body, and to have him incarcerated for a crime that had
not even been committed.

Only Scientology Inc.'s plan failed: their OSA operative was too drunk
to follow the plan, and Tom Klemesrud managed to thwart the plan by
yelling for help himself (and who wouldn't, when a strange woman comes
into one's residence and starts splattering blood on the walls?!).

Since Scientology's plan was to make a murder appear to have taken
place and also have the body missing, Ms. Bloodybutt had to flee
before the police arrived. She could not withstand a medical
investigation that showed she was not injured. She didn't know that
the police had already been called.

DEFENDANT'S CALL

The 911 tape of the Defendant's phone call to LAPD begins at 21:43
hours. The tape goes as follows:

LAPD: "911 emergency operator 434."

DEFENDANT: "Yea, I have, ah, I'm a , I'm a anti-member of the
Church of Scientology and I have a Scientology member in my
apartment building who bleed all over my bathroom and she's
alive and she's fine.

LAPD: "You need the paramedics?

DEFENDANT: "No, not at all. No we don't even need the
police."

LAPD: "Okay. What's the problem then sir?"

DEFENDANT: "Ah, we have a scientologist going after an
anti-Scientologist and if you don't understand that you can
call the FBI."

LAPD: "But why do you need the police? Why are you calling
911?"

DEFENDANT: "Because the FBI told me to call."

LAPD: "Who called - told you to call?"

DEFENDANT: "Three, ah, the FBI. You understand their number -
6565?"

LAPD: "Well, why did they tell you to call?"

DEFENDANT: "Because you have...then she said why did they tell
me to call. I'm sitting here with a rabid Scientologist
infiltrating my apartment and the FBI told me to call and I'm
calling. Okay? And this isn't funny. It's not funny. Okay?

LAPD: "I'm not laughing."

DEFENDANT: "I want you to call the FBI and find this out real
quick. Okay? And she's got a lot of blood in my bathroom
floor, you know, hemorrhaging from woman-female things and
she's going to blame that on me. Okay?"

LAPD: "So you want me to call the FBI?"

DEFENDANT: "Absolutely - yes."

LAPD: "Why don't you call the FBI?"

DEFENDANT: "I already did."

LAPD: "But why do you want me to call?"

DEFENDANT: "So you know the story. They told me to call you.

LAPD: "I don't see how I can help you sir. Do you need the
paramedics? Yes or no?"

DEFENDANT: "No, I need the FBI. There's a federal crime -
there's been a federal crime committed here. Okay, as a
matter of fact I'm going to stay on the...as a matter of fact
I'm reporting a federal crime and it is money laundering.
Miss, the crime is money laundering."

LAPD: "Who's doing that?"

DEFENDANT: "The lady in my apartment right now. You call him
and I'm going to stay on the line you asshole! So call him
right now!"

LAPD: "One moment sir. I'm going to put you on hold."

(LAPD operator is talking to someone at her location: "Excuse
me. Excuse me. Could you look up the special loop for 5143
Bakman? What does that mean? What does that tell me? I have
this address on the line and he's talking about the FBI and it
sounds like a 5150." [Note: 5150 is police jargon for Welfare
and Institution Code Section 5150 which deals with mentally
disturbed individuals.] "Okay. Okay. Thank you.")

DEFENDANT: "Hello sir, is this the FBI?"

LAPD: "No it isn't. What I'm going to do is transfer you to
my supervisor..."

DEFENDANT: "And, and she's squirreling, meaning, meaning that
ah, she, she doesn't go along with, with, with the church's
orders."

LAPD: "Stay on the line on moment sir. I'm going to transfer
you to my supervisor.

BUSY SIGNAL.........(LAPD operator unsuccessful in
transferring call to her supervisor."

The call ends at 21:49 hours.

PLAINTIFF'S CALL

The 911 call to the Fire Department placed by the Plaintiff begins at
22:45 hours. It goes as follows:

LAFD: "911 emergency 585."

PLAINTIFF: "Yes. A man has gone out of his mind and I have no
clue what to do with him."

LAFD: "Who is this man, ma'am?

DEFENDANT: "The guy who owns the telephone who has called the
FBI already. This is the Church of Scientology."

LAFD: "Sir, sir, would you put the lady on the phone."

DEFENDANT: "Yes I will. He wants to talk to you."

LAFD: "Okay, ma'am?"

DEFENDANT: "This is the Church of Scientology who is trying to
frame me."

LAFD: "Sir - sir..."

DEFENDANT: "Here is the lady..."

LAFD: "Sir, sir, get off the phone sir!"

DEFENDANT: "The FB......here is the lady."

PLAINTIFF: "Hello."

LAFD: "Okay ma'am, what is this man doing to you? This man
that's right there. The one I just talked to.

PLAINTIFF: "The one that put a 12 gauge to your head. The one
that says you can't go to the bathroom because you're
hemorrhaging."

LAFD: "Stay on the line. Let me transfer you to the police
operator so they can switch you to the police.

PLAINTIFF: "Thank you."

LAPD: Los Angeles Police Department..."

PLAINTIFF: "I need some kind of help here."

LAPD: "What's the problem?"

PLAINTIFF: "This man's paranoid. I don't know. He won't
allow me to go to the bathroom.

LAPD: "Who are you talking about?"

PLAINTIFF: "I'm hemorrhaging right now.......12 gauge and
moved it up and said, 'don't worry about shooting me if you
want to'....I think perhaps you ought to come over.....I don't
know what to do about this situation. I really don't know
what to do.

LAPD: "What is the address?"

PLAINTIFF: "I'm sorry, I have no clue right now...I'm
hemorrhaging.

LAPD: "You don't live there?"

PLAINTIFF: "No I don't."

LAPD: "How did you get there? Hold on for the paramedics."

DEFENDANT: "Yes, miss?

LAPD: "Yes."

DEFENDANT: "Yea you're going to have to....."

LAFD: "Paramedics 405. May I help you?"


(Note: LAPD and LAFD are both on the line)


LAPD: "What did you say?"

DEFENDANT: "You're going to get a better, ah...you're going to
get a better ah...shit. This is the Church of Scientology
trying to set up somebody who is a critic...that's what this
is...okay?"

LAFD: "He's a what?"

DEFENDANT: "This is the Church of Scientology trying to set up
a critic."

LAPD to LAFD: "The lady said she was hemorrhaging so I
transferred to you...I don't know what..."

DEFENDANT: "I don't think she's hemorrhaging, but, you know,
if she's hemorrhaging she did it herself. See I don't know
women does that."

LAPD: "What's wrong with you?"

DEFENDANT: "Huh?"

LAPD: "What's wrong with you?"

DEFENDANT: "I've had...I've had a few drinks...that's all
that's wrong with me.

LAPD: "Is it your girlfriend?"

DEFENDANT: No. Absolutely not. She met me at the bar.
You've got to call the FBI. The FBI understands. Okay?

LAFD: "You're calling from your own apartment?"

DEFENDANT: "Yea, and I have friends at the FBI and they know
my name. You know my name."

LAFD: "I thought you said this was the Church of Scientology."

DEFENDANT: "Absolutely...yea...this...yes it is and she has
the ability to train my shotgun on me and shoot me but she
won't do that."

LAFD: "Hold on a second...hold on a second..."

DEFENDANT: "If the police come there's no threatening
situation..."

LAFD: "Hold on one second please. Okay PD are you going to
handle?"

LAPD: "Yea, we got it. Bye."

The call ended at 22:49 hours.

Birgitta

unread,
Mar 22, 2001, 4:16:31 PM3/22/01
to
Is this phonecall for real ???

ROFL !!!! :-))))

Bid

TheGreatBandino

unread,
Mar 22, 2001, 6:09:58 PM3/22/01
to
Colorful story.

Damn shame that the woman in question had no contact with Scientology until
after the incident when the postings that appeared in this newsgroup prompted
CofS to find her.

After Klemesrud learned that Woolard was in fact not involved with the C of S
prior to the incident, he failed to do set the record straight lest he look the
fool that he was.

Ask Klemesrud to publicly state on this newsgroup, that Woolard conspired with
the C of S in a plot to set him up. He won't do it. It seems everyone has
conveniently forgotten the legal proceedings involving Tom and Woolard.

There's lots of other ammo that doesn't have this kind of misfire potential.
Tom screwed up. It's time he did the honorable thing and put this one to rest
once and for all.

The injustice of once again dragging Woolard's name through the mud prompted me
to delurk.

Bandino
(knows all, sees all, tells little)


©Anti-Cult® - www.users.wineasy.se/noname/

unread,
Mar 22, 2001, 6:37:00 PM3/22/01
to
On 22 Mar 2001 23:09:58 GMT.
In Message-ID: <20010322180958...@ng-mq1.aol.com>
From: thegrea...@aol.com (TheGreatBandino).
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com.
Wrote on the subject: Re: Recap of the story of Miss Bloodybutt - for
Tom Klemesrud:

Why are you hiding? Are you a mafia scientologist by chance?

-8.0 on the Hubbardian tone-scale..

Bwahahahah..


Sten-Arne Zerpe
Kristinelundsvagen 24
S-17150
Solna
Sweden.

Phone: +46 8 826189
Mobile 1: +46 70 6808790
Mobile 2: +46 70 2184508

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's how I think Hubbard did his "research." He downed a bottle of
gin, popped a few pills, passed out and woke up hours later, clutching
the empty bottle and screaming "The psychs are coming, the psychs are
coming, they're crawling all over me. Get 'em off, get 'em off." And,
another Scientology rundown was thus created, the False Purpose rundown.

- ind...@aol.com (Indanm)
In Message-ID: <20010310005938...@ng-fr1.aol.com>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
******* Body thetans? We don't need no stinking Body Thetans! *******
*********** http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/index.htm ************
IRC #Scientology JavaChat http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/irc.html
* Multimedia: http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/multimed/index.htm *
******** The.Galacti...@ThePentagon.com (Anti-Cult) ********
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Karin Spaink

unread,
Mar 22, 2001, 10:29:30 PM3/22/01
to
thegrea...@aol.com (TheGreatBandino) kindly wrote:

> Bandino
> (knows all, sees all, tells little)

You forgot: "... insinuates a lot."

groet,
Karin Spaink

--
I write, therefore I am:
http://www.spaink.net/

Another Troll

unread,
Mar 22, 2001, 10:35:16 PM3/22/01
to
On Thu, 22 Mar 2001 05:07:06 -0800, barb <bwa...@home.com> wrote:

> The thing I still don't understand is this; why in the world would the
> stupid woman TELL Tom she was with Scientology?

She was drunk. She also needed to let him known who was framing him
(he would have figured it out eventually).

> Had she kept her silly yap shut, he wouldn't have called 911, or known
> about the blood smeared in the bathroom. The op would have run
> perfectly, he would have gone to jail with no idea what happened to him,
> as he thought he was dealing with an FBI agent.

After splattering blood in the bathroom, she went to the bed and put
blood on it--- while he stood and watched. He therefore could not have
been left ignorant about the blood in the bathroom.

> I wonder too, had that happened, would the police have bothered to test
> the blood in the bathroom against that woman's bloodtype? Was it even
> real blood? Dog, hog, or otherwise?

Most probably it was human blood, extracted by a "volunteer" at Big
Blue.

> That woman really slopped the op. Thank goodness for Tom's sake that
> incompetence is a byproduct of scientology!

Thank the gods she was drunk!

> --
> Barb
> Chaplain, ARSCC

Another Troll

unread,
Mar 22, 2001, 10:41:46 PM3/22/01
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On Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:16:31 +0100, Birgitta <birg...@boberg.nu>
wrote:

> Is this phonecall for real ???
> ROFL !!!! :-))))

If a person is not familiar with Scientology and the extent to which
that organization goes to frame a person for imaginary crimes, one
would assume that Tom Klemesrud was indeed a "mental case" based upon
the 9-1-1 transcripts. Law Enforcement needs to be educated about
Scientology Inc. so that when victims of that sinister organization
call for help they will get a helpful, prompt response.

> Bid

Birgitta

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Mar 23, 2001, 3:55:13 AM3/23/01
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On Fri, 23 Mar 2001 03:41:46 GMT, atr...@devon.ut.gov (Another Troll)
wrote:

Perhaps my sense of humor was unbecoming, but after being a
scientologist myself for 14 years am I glad to be able to laught at
the more colorful descriptions of the general disaster.

Bid

ptsc

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Mar 23, 2001, 8:05:54 AM3/23/01
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On Fri, 23 Mar 2001 03:41:46 GMT, atr...@devon.ut.gov (Another Troll) wrote:

>On Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:16:31 +0100, Birgitta <birg...@boberg.nu>
>wrote:

>> Is this phonecall for real ???
>> ROFL !!!! :-))))

>If a person is not familiar with Scientology and the extent to which
>that organization goes to frame a person for imaginary crimes, one
>would assume that Tom Klemesrud was indeed a "mental case" based upon
>the 9-1-1 transcripts. Law Enforcement needs to be educated about
>Scientology Inc. so that when victims of that sinister organization
>call for help they will get a helpful, prompt response.

I have to state that I agree. This is not to blame Tom for how he was acting
on that transcript, just that he probably should not have been trying to
explain the larger context of the situation in the forum of a 911 call. Just
"some psycho I picked up in a bar is vandalizing my house with blood!"

The larger context could be explained later in a court of law. Unfortunately
Klemesrud's liability carrier was more interested in settling everything and
therefore there was no brutal, far-reaching discovery on what actually
occurred.

I do hear, however, that a Certain Lawyer involved in that case may end up
discussing these matters at some point in the near future ;-)

ptsc

ptsc

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Mar 23, 2001, 7:52:14 AM3/23/01
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On 22 Mar 2001 23:09:58 GMT, thegrea...@aol.com (TheGreatBandino) wrote:

>Colorful story.

>Damn shame that the woman in question had no contact with Scientology until
>after the incident when the postings that appeared in this newsgroup prompted
>CofS to find her.

Damn shame that the woman in question had no driver's license, no tracable
connections to anyone or anything, and her first move on leaving the apartment
was to call Eugene Martin Ingram and have an affidavit taken by Scientology
lawyer Don Wager. Damn shame that in all likelihood there is no person named
"Linda Woolard" connected with this event at all.

>After Klemesrud learned that Woolard was in fact not involved with the C of S
>prior to the incident, he failed to do set the record straight lest he look the
>fool that he was.

>Ask Klemesrud to publicly state on this newsgroup, that Woolard conspired with
>the C of S in a plot to set him up. He won't do it. It seems everyone has
>conveniently forgotten the legal proceedings involving Tom and Woolard.

Hey, Klemesrud, did "Linda Woolard" conspire with the C of S in a plot to set
you up? If not, what is the explanation?

>There's lots of other ammo that doesn't have this kind of misfire potential.
>Tom screwed up. It's time he did the honorable thing and put this one to rest
>once and for all.

>The injustice of once again dragging Woolard's name through the mud prompted me
>to delurk.

Yeah. Right.

ptsc

STella

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Mar 24, 2001, 1:15:05 AM3/24/01
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In article <qnhmbtkfbh25gp0iv...@4ax.com>,

ptsc <ptsc AT nym DOT alias DOT net> wrote:
>Damn shame that the woman in question had no driver's license, no tracable
>connections to anyone or anything, and her first move on leaving the apartment
>was to call Eugene Martin Ingram and have an affidavit taken by Scientology

Um, I thought she called FROM his apartment. What story am I
confounding with this one?

STella, mildly befuddled or what?

Michael Reuss

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Mar 26, 2001, 11:19:43 AM3/26/01
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> ptsc <ptsc AT nym DOT alias DOT net> wrote:
>> Michael Reuss <michae...@home.com> wrote:
>>> Tom Klemesrud <tom...@WCTAtel.net> wrote:

>>>I hate thinking back on this; and worse, I hate knowing that many people I respect
>>>here still don't believe what I said about this.

>>For those who weren't aware of the story, Tom Klemesrud's BBS was the
>>upstream provider of Dennis Erlich's a.r.s internet feed back in
>>1994-95. If you aren't aware of who Dennis Erlich is, then just
>>realize that back in 1995, he was the cult's enemy #1, just as Bob
>>Minton is today.
>>appeared that she chatting him up and flirting with him. She claimed
>>to want to see Tom's computer setup. Tom agreed, probably thinking he
>>might be getting lucky.

> Correction. She claimed to be IRS CID.

> I don't believe he took the shotgun out of his closet.

> It wasn't Helena Kobrin, it was Don Wager who took the affidavit.


> Eugene Martin Ingram was also involved.

Thanks for the corrections, Rob. I was simply recalling the story
based on memory, and wasn't referring to any documents. Your
corrections raised a couple of questions.

I had forgotten to mention the all-important phone call that Linda
Woolard made from Tom's apartment that night, after the cops arrived,
to one Clean Gene, the investigatin' machine, Engram (er, I mean
Ingram). That fact immediately puts the lie to any claim that Woolard
was unfamiliar Scientology operatives before the blood smearing
incident.

Are you sure Tom didn't get out his shotgun? I thought I recalled from
his account that he did.

Is Don Wager associated with Gene Engram (er, I mean Ingram) and/or
Kendrick Moxon? Was he employed by Moxon and Kobrin at that time? As I
recall, back then Scientology legal whores Kendrick Moxon and Helena
Kobrin were partners in the firm of Moxon and Kobrin. Then about a
year later, Moxon and Kobrin changed it's name and became Moxon and
Bowles, IIRC (perhaps because of all the attention and bad publicity
that Kobrin's Internet behaviors were bringing down on the firm?).


Michael Reuss
Honorary Kid

Michael Reuss

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Mar 26, 2001, 11:46:06 AM3/26/01
to
> thegrea...@aol.com (TheGreatBandino) wrote:

> Colorful story.

> Damn shame that the woman in question had no contact with Scientology until
> after the incident when the postings that appeared in this newsgroup prompted
> CofS to find her.

Then why did she call Scientology PI Clean Gene Engram (er, I mean
Ingram) from Tom's apartment that night?

My guess is that she was calling him either to report that the mission
(that he had probably designed for her to carry out) had been
completed, or else to ask for his advice on what to do next, since the
cops had become involved.


> After Klemesrud learned that Woolard was in fact not involved with the C of S
> prior to the incident, he failed to do set the record straight lest he look the
> fool that he was.

Tom told his side of the story, in an understandably upset and
emotional way. Scientology and Woolard told a whole different story, a
stupid story about spurtin' hemorrhoids. I think we can safely assume
that you'd probably endorse the stupid hemorrhoid story, right?


> Ask Klemesrud to publicly state on this newsgroup, that Woolard conspired with
> the C of S in a plot to set him up. He won't do it. It seems everyone has
> conveniently forgotten the legal proceedings involving Tom and Woolard.

It's amazing how you actually CAN use the courts to harass and
intimidate when you're not averse to terrorism, lies, and perjury.


> There's lots of other ammo that doesn't have this kind of misfire potential.
> Tom screwed up. It's time he did the honorable thing and put this one to rest
> once and for all.

Tom put out all the documentation he could find. Now if Moxon and
Engram (er, I mean Ingram) came clean, and put their full record out,
maybe the name of an anonybitch lying terrorist would appear on one of
those pay stubs or invoices, hmmm?

I just love it if one of the clams in Moxon's office would have a pang
of conscience and start to sing for the D.A. over Scientology ops.


> The injustice of once again dragging Woolard's name through the mud prompted me
> to delurk.

Heh. I've seen a lot of posts on a.r.s over the years, but you're the
first person in all that time who's ever expressed pity for Ms.
Bloodybutt. Bandino, are you Clean Gene, his own self?

If so, when you see her next, tell Woolard that her shore story isn't
flying (it never did), and that before this goes away, she's got some
serious 'splaining to do.

Here's an idea. If she really wants to clear this up, maybe she should
consider setting up a live Internet video feed (she could even use one
of those free Earthlink Video cameras!) to show the world what her
spurtin' hemorrhoids are capable of, the next time they act up. She
could demonstrate how with her OT powers, she can actually cause her
bleedin' rrhoids to spurt up on the walls. However gross that would
be, I would certainly be interested in watching.

I'd certainly apologize to Ms. Woolard if she proved she was able to
do that. So, if you know her personally, please do pass along my
suggestion to her, won't you? Thanks in advance.

Michael Reuss
Honorary Kid

ptsc

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Mar 26, 2001, 1:18:20 PM3/26/01
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Klemesrud indicated at the time that there was a phone call to an "Ingram Paper
Company" but I do not know what that is, whether Woolard called it or whether
it was the result of some kind of hanky-panky with the phone company, or
whether it turned out to be connected to Ingram. (Although by the "Church's"
own admission, Woolard did indeed almost immediately communicate with Ingram
and through him arrange for an interview to be taken by Scientology lawyer
Donald Wager--whether or not Ingram was present at this meeting, he was later
involved in the "hunt" for -AB- who posted documents concerning Woolard to the
net that Ingram alleged to Finnish police officer Kaj Malmberg had been stolen
from Scientology's internal computer network by -AB- who Klemesrud alleges to
have been one Thomas Gerard Rummelhart--head spinning yet? Thought so, and
this is just the Reader's Digest condensed version.)

>Are you sure Tom didn't get out his shotgun? I thought I recalled from
>his account that he did.

I honestly don't recall whether he did. I know that it was known that he had
one, and that Woolard alleges he pulled it out and threatened to shoot himself,
or shoot her, or shoot her and then shoot himself. I believe, though, that the
police found it in a search of his closet.

>Is Don Wager associated with Gene Engram (er, I mean Ingram) and/or
>Kendrick Moxon? Was he employed by Moxon and Kobrin at that time? As I

Wager has worked with Kendrick Moxon on a number of criminal conspiracies. .
.ahem, lawsuits. He was also the lawyer who took the original perjurious
Cipriano affidavit in conjunction with Eugene Martin Ingram.

>recall, back then Scientology legal whores Kendrick Moxon and Helena
>Kobrin were partners in the firm of Moxon and Kobrin. Then about a
>year later, Moxon and Kobrin changed it's name and became Moxon and
>Bowles, IIRC (perhaps because of all the attention and bad publicity
>that Kobrin's Internet behaviors were bringing down on the firm?).

You have that exactly backwards. Moxon and Kobrin was previously known as
Moxon and Bowles, and I believe, prior to that, Moxon and Bartilson.

I have not heard much of Timothy Bowles lately, nor Laurie Bartilson.

>Michael Reuss
>Honorary Kid

ptsc

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