If you only listen to ONE tape at Lermanet.com THIS IS IT!
arnie lerma
ago
if you only listen to ONE tape there, THIS IS THE ONE
Cult Overview by Dr Louis J West
There are two very different public images of the contemporary
organizations sometimes called cults. Especially of those to which the
adjective, religious is usually attached. One these images might be
called Utopian, which suggests emergence of a healthy, new spiritual
sectarianism. This image portrays congregations of Pilgrims, who after
a search for a meaning in life, or truth or self-fulfillment haven
found a band of kindred spirits, under the benign guidance of a
divinely inspired prophet, guru, master, or [unintelligible]. They are
busy living happily. Their bliss is only occasionally troubled by
memories of the doomed society they left behind. Or the unwarranted
intrusions of ignorant, misguided family members, and their monstrous
agents, called deprogrammers.
This invokes the spirits of Dante Alighieri and his 14th century
Vision of Hell. We see the cult, the place where men, women and
children are bound to a satanic master. They trusted him in a happier
time, believing his promises, sinking by imperceptible stages deeper
and deeper into his power. Surrendering their possessions, their
children, their very souls for his mysterious purpose. With Dante we
follow them to this distant place. Where size, lamentations and loud
wailings resound through the starless air. So then at first, it makes
us weep. We hear in the immortal words of Dante, words of pain, tones
of anger, voices loud and hoarse. And with these, the sounds of hands
making a tumult which is whirling through that air forever, as sand
eddies in a whirlwind. Above the whispers of the damned we might hear
a single child's voice calling out, 'I'd die for you, dad.' A
quotation from the Jonestown tapes.
-----
http://www.lermanet.com/audio/cultoverview-LJWest-part1.rm
http://www.lermanet.com/audio/cultoverview-LJWest-part2.rm
transcript in progress
Regards
Arnie Lerma
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
If the Ferengi were to breed with the Borg you'd get Scientology
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/comedy.html
The internet is the Liberty Tree of the 90's
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/libertyl.html
Ex-Scientologist staff member
apoligizes to John Travolta, Mayor Gabe Cazares
and the Citizens of Clearwater
http://www.lermanet.com/garyweber/
Help getting someone OUT of Scientology
http://www.lermanet.com/scientologyhelp/main.html
fax...@hotmail.com
1. ARNIE LERMA'S SOURCE: "JOLLY"
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/ae7dbbb3373e8bf1?dmode=source
2. ARNIE LERMA COVERS HIS NAZI CONNECTION
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/9c59033f44f6e9c5?dmode=source
3. ARNIE LERMA THE NAZI DISINFORMATIONIST QUOTES NOAM CHOMSKY THE
ANARCHIST
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/ae4468b0632543df?dmode=source
4. ARNIE LERMA IS A NAZI PROPAGANDIST WHO FORWARDS MALICIOUS RUMOR
BASED ON HIS KOOKY CONSPIRACY THEORIES
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/18711cbc20f631d6?dmode=source
5. ARNIE SHOULD WORK FOR A TABLOID MAGAZINE
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/00deeff07db64306?dmode=source
Theres more: ARNIE LERMA: PEDOPHILE ALSO?
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?q=lerma+pedophile)
-
Faxhor @ Hotmail.com
================================================================
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/lerma.html
ARNALDO LERMA
Arnaldo (Arnie) Lerma attacks minority religions on the internet,
harasses and intimidates parishioners with hate mail, and plans and
participates in demonstrations that have been known to become violent.
He also runs a private underground channel on the internet where
anti-religious extremists gather to spread hatred and plan acts of
aggression against the Church of Scientology and its parishioners.
Religious groups are not the only targets of Lerma's hatred. He also
supports and defends what the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) and the
Simon Wiesenthal Center have both condemned: the Neo-Nazi movement of
Willis Carto.
Nazi hunter Yaron Svoary, quoted in the Hartford Courant on Nov. 7,
1994, said about Carto, "The most notorious Nazi in the world is not
German but Willis Carto."
Lerma, a longtime supporter, is on the Board of Policy of Liberty
Lobby, an anti-Semitic organization founded by Carto. Lerma tries to
keep quiet his connection to Carto and his racist organization, as
demonstrated by this extract from an email Lerma sent to an associate:
"I was asked to speak at the 40th anniversary convention of Liberty
Lobby...
"I suggest that we don't promote my relationship with Willis Carto ...
"We have the full support of Willis Carto, and the 'patriot' movement
in the United States."
Further information regarding the activities of Lerma's close
associate, Carto, can be obtained in abundance from the Anti-Defamation
League and the Simon Wiesenthal Center.
Lerma has a long history of involvement in anti-government militia
groups, and is a regular contributor to the alt.conspiracy newsgroup.
Among the most notorious of his militia associations is William White,
the PR mouthpiece of the Utopian Anarchist Party (UAP), an organization
that targets government and law enforcement agencies.
White has participated, at Lerma's invitation, in hate demonstrations
against the Church of Scientology. White has a criminal record which
includes arrests for battery and the carrying of a concealed weapon.
In January 2002, William White formalized his relationship with Willis
Carto by entering into Carto's paid employment. This announcement was
made on White's web page with the following statement, excerpted below:
"I met Willis Carto today. Nice guy, a little wacky, but mostly pretty
intelligent and pleasant. Definitely has a Hitler thing, but I can
overlook that...
"...We reached a deal where I will begin writing 750-word pieces for
his latest publication...
"I have never been in a room where some guy comes and goes 'Hey Willis:
I just got off the phone with David Duke and he says hi from
Germany...'
"There may be some who wonder if my acceptance of this deal represents
a great ideological change, but it doesn't. I will be choosing my own
topics for writing, and the bottom line is that he offered me pretty
good money to write 'em..."
White's willingness to "overlook" Carto's neo-Nazi agenda in favor of a
paying job removes any last shred of credibility he may have enjoyed
among like-minded anarchists. And, regardless of his weak denial, it
also sheds further light on his true intentions and agenda toward
minority races and religions. The only question remaining is whether
Arnaldo Lerma, friend to both White and Carto, arranged this meeting in
an attempt to bolster support within the anarchist and neo-Nazi
movements for his orchestrated attacks on the Church of Scientology.
COPYRIGHT INFRIGEMENT
Lerma claims to be a proponent of free speech yet only manufactured
this argument after he was sued for copyright infringement. The
copyright owner filed suit against Lerma whose free speech defense was
considered and rejected by the judge. The court entered a permanent
injunction against Lerma, who paid $12,000 in fees and costs to the
plaintiffs.
LERMA'S ULTIMATE PLAN FOR RELIGIOUS GROUPS
In his hate writings against the Church of Scientology, Lerma
encourages other extremists in their attacks against the Church by
stating "...we must continue our work until done and then sow the
ground with salt."
This is a reference to the manner in which the Roman Legions massacred
the Carthaginians, demolished their city and harbor, and then sowed the
ground with salt so that nothing would grow on their lands again.
Left unopposed, this is the future Arnaldo Lerma would inflict upon all
those he disagrees with.
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/lerma.html
-
Fax...@hotmail.com
No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.
--------------------------------------------------------
Arnie Lerma posted: Cult Overview by Dr Louis J West
I listened to the tape but I kept falling asleep.
-
Faxhor @ Hotmail.com
================================================================
Read L Ron Hubbard's Affirmations, one of the earliest examples of
Scientology OT solo auditing.
http://www.b-org.demon.nl/scn/nl/english/admissions-hubbard.html
or
http://www.lermanet2.com/reference/Admissions.pdf
Pts 2
met with Jolly West, an MD, along with Dr. M. Singer together. This was
at a CAN conference in Minn. in 1993. These two people were sooooo
impressive IMPO. Not, I repeat NOT, because they were "doctors" full of
academic credentials, but because they were soooo genuine and caring....
and had shiploads of understanding of cults and their abusive natures.
Just ordinary human beings to sit down with, yet could discuss
extraordinarily esoteric topics with.
Tigger was there. So was Patricia Ryan and the late Bob Penny, who Btw,
Mikey Gormez just recently posted accolades for as one of thee most
credible individuals in the fight against $cn's abuses.
What Dr. West told me at that time, along with
Dr. Singer, was their praise and admiration for me for speaking out
against $cn, but w/ alarm as peppered with a warning that they (THEY)
would come after me in ways most people could not even imagine if I did.
At that time, nine (9) years ago I was still ensconced in the learning
curve re: $cn's evil side. My naivety was only elevated to the level
that ..........."I had the law on my side.....THIS IS AMERICA! " I've
since reduced my expectations many many levels. :(
So... THANKS Mr. Lerma for posting this thread to direct readers to Dr.
West's wisdom. I'm so glad you are hosting this info. Would Bernie?
Nope, not part of his OSA program! Would Robbie "Henri" Clark? Naw,
too lacking of IRL experiences and balanced world views which depart
from cyberspace fantasies Would the tag team of
Greenberg/Richardson/Spurgeon? Of course not!! No more than Rinder et
al would.
Tom
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/Scientology/
arnie lerma
>Actually Arnie, long before I met you and a host of many here on ARS, I
>met with Jolly West, an MD, along with Dr. M. Singer together. This was
>at a CAN conference in Minn. in 1993. These two people were sooooo
>impressive IMPO. Not, I repeat NOT, because they were "doctors" full of
>academic credentials, but because they were soooo genuine and caring....
>and had shiploads of understanding of cults and their abusive natures.
>Just ordinary human beings to sit down with, yet could discuss
>extraordinarily esoteric topics with.
>
I had the same pleasure, at the CAN convention in Newark, that one
where Dr Touretsky flew down to Leesburg airport to pick me up, and
took me as a director at the time for FACTNet (Bob Penny was also a
diorector for FACTNet at the time but was very ill with multiple
sclerosis - advanced...and terminal ) to the convention, where I met
Louis Jolly West and Dr Margaret Singer , who told me that they knew
who I was, and had been following my efforts, expressing their
gratitude for all we had done and were doing.
The pair of the struck me as caring, empathetic, wise seers of the
scientology scam.
Our efforts on the net will grant them what scientologists think
they might achieve by going up the bridge to total freedum... but
never do... virtual IMMORTALITY... as thier words live on, burning
through the slave chains forged of lies.. forever.
It was on the return flight from that convention, somewhere over
pennsylvania, that Dr Touretszky noticed that his fuel tanks on the
plane had not in fact been filled as Signature Flight Services claimed
they had been.. even though he had the receipt for the gas. Signature
claimed that "this had never happenned before".. We made an unplanned
landing at another airport enroute, that has gas services at 2 in the
morning....
>Tigger was there. So was Patricia Ryan and the late Bob Penny, who Btw,
>Mikey Gormez just recently posted accolades for as one of thee most
>credible individuals in the fight against $cn's abuses.
>
>What Dr. West told me at that time, along with
>Dr. Singer, was their praise and admiration for me for speaking out
>against $cn, but w/ alarm as peppered with a warning that they (THEY)
>would come after me in ways most people could not even imagine if I did.
>At that time, nine (9) years ago I was still ensconced in the learning
>curve re: $cn's evil side. My naivety was only elevated to the level
>that ..........."I had the law on my side.....THIS IS AMERICA! " I've
>since reduced my expectations many many levels. :(
This is america... you wrote?
When scientology sent the goons to visit me in Nov 1994, in the
letter ( 6 copies ) that I mailed out to the newspapers, I closed
that letter with..
"This is america???"
Sincerely
Arnaldo Lerma
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
>
>So... THANKS Mr. Lerma for posting this thread to direct readers to Dr.
>West's wisdom. I'm so glad you are hosting this info. Would Bernie?
>Nope, not part of his OSA program! Would Robbie "Henri" Clark? Naw,
>too lacking of IRL experiences and balanced world views which depart
>from cyberspace fantasies Would the tag team of
>Greenberg/Richardson/Spurgeon? Of course not!! No more than Rinder et
>al would.
>
>Tom
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
>http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/Scientology/
If the Ferengi were to breed with the Borg you'd get Scientology
Diane Richardson
[snip]
>What Dr. West told me at that time, along with
>Dr. Singer, was their praise and admiration for me for speaking out
>against $cn, but w/ alarm as peppered with a warning that they (THEY)
>would come after me in ways most people could not even imagine if I did.
They praised and admired you because they believed your lies. If they
had known the TRUTH about your divorce, they would have had nothing
but scorn and disgust for you.
You've managed to scam a lot of compassionate and caring people
with your lies ... Cynthia Kisser, Dennis Erlich, the list goes on and
on. Fortunately, they now know the truth about you and wouldn't
even give you the time of day if you were to approach them with
your lies now.
>At that time, nine (9) years ago I was still ensconced in the learning
>curve re: $cn's evil side. My naivety was only elevated to the level
>that ..........."I had the law on my side.....THIS IS AMERICA! " I've
>since reduced my expectations many many levels. :(
Actually, the law worked very well in your case. The judge refused to
be fooled by your lies and insisted you pay the child support you
withheld from your kids for years.
You pled guilty to the felony of flagrant non-support of your
children. You were jailed when you didn't live up to your obligation
to support your children. That's the way the law works, Padgett.
Diane Richardson
arnie lerma
wrote:
More Scientology style de-popularization by a confirmed liar diane
richardson see following url wherever you see this sociopath weild
her icepick.
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/whypaulette.html
Tigger Tigger
Lerma posts about Scientology.
You have spent years reposting the same OSA-like attacks over and over
again. WE'VE HEARD IT ad nauseum. Enough is enough. At this point,
NOBODY cares who is right....you or Padgett.
Sure, Padgett should stop bringing up his "case" and/or trying to
bullbait people, But what you do is no better and probably worse.
Why don't you PROVE you are a better person than he is by DROPPING IT
and IGNORING HIS POSTS?
Tigger
You can lead a librarian or an ex-scieno to reason, but you can't make
her or him reasonable. It's up to them to be reasonable.
Reply with all your flameguns blazing if you want, but NEITHER of YOU is
going to bullbait me.
Goodbye,
Tigger
Cerridwen
>You know, Diane.....you are getting crazier than Arnie Lerma. At least
>Lerma posts about Scientology.
>
>You have spent years reposting the same OSA-like attacks over and over
>again. WE'VE HEARD IT ad nauseum. Enough is enough. At this point,
>NOBODY cares who is right....you or Padgett.
>
>Sure, Padgett should stop bringing up his "case" and/or trying to
>bullbait people, But what you do is no better and probably worse.
>Why don't you PROVE you are a better person than he is by DROPPING IT
>and IGNORING HIS POSTS?
>
>Tigger
I think that just like the critics that feel a need to make posts alerting
the "newbie lurkers" to OSA, I feel Diane provides a service to all the "newbies"
on just what type of person Padgett really is. Otherwise, Padgett
might scam a some new people out of their money.
If Diane didn't do it, I'd probably remove Padgett from my killfile
and provide the service myself.
Cerridwen
Magoo
"Cerridwen" <Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header> wrote in message
news:IKWLPHWJ3833...@anonymous.poster...
> On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Tiggeri...@webtv.net (Tigger Tigger) wrote:
>>You know, Diane.....you are getting crazier than Arnie Lerma. At least
>>Lerma posts about Scientology.
>>
>>You have spent years reposting the same OSA-like attacks over and over
>>again. WE'VE HEARD IT ad nauseum. Enough is enough. At this point,
>>NOBODY cares who is right....you or Padgett.
>>
>>Sure, Padgett should stop bringing up his "case" and/or trying to
>>bullbait people, But what you do is no better and probably worse.
>>Why don't you PROVE you are a better person than he is by DROPPING IT
>>and IGNORING HIS POSTS?
>>
>>Tigger
>
> I think that just like the critics that feel a need to make posts alerting
> the "newbie lurkers" to OSA,
And you never answered my questions from another thread: You don't think OSA
Is here on ARS? Do you, or don't you? You don't feel new people here should
be informed of this insideous group designed to trick and lie to people,
pretending to be critics?
I'd like to know, please.
I feel Diane provides a service to all the "newbies"
> on just what type of person Padgett really is. Otherwise, Padgett
> might scam a some new people out of their money.
>
> If Diane didn't do it, I'd probably remove Padgett from my killfile
> and provide the service myself.
>
>
> Cerridwen
>
When was the last time TP asked anyone on any newsgroup for $?
I'd just like to know if the above statement is based on fact, or fiction.
Please post the facts, the recent facts.
And spare me the line of some critics are keeping him from doing so. If he
begins, the few who are so worked up over it can whip out their
info/attacks.
If you're lurking, here's a suggestion:
Read the Web pages. There's much great information about the organization
hiding behind the claok of religion, "The Church of Scientology" there.
Tory/Magoo~~
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.com
http://www.altreligionscientology.org
> http://www.truthaboutscientology.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Tigger Tigger
>I think that just like the critics that feel a
> need to make posts alerting the "newbie
> lurkers" to OSA, I feel Diane provides a
> service to all the "newbies" on just what
> type of person Padgett really is.
> Otherwise, Padgett might scam a some
> new people out of their money.
>If Diane didn't do it, I'd probably remove
> Padgett from my killfile and provide the
> service myself.
So Cerridwen, Ma'm?, Sir? :)
Think a little harder and tell us who these people are who were scammed
out of their money by Tom Padgett.
When was the last time Padgett made any request for help?
You've fallen for the Greenberg BS. The only "service" Diane Richardson
does is keep threads flaming with off-topics and personal attacks.......
the same things you and I dislike about Tory/Magoo's "service"
of giving tit for tat. Good Gawd, have you seen how long that "One More
Scientologist Free" thread is?
Comparing Tom Padgett to OSA is ridiculous. What ever happened.....it
happened.....it's over. The Padgett children are grown, the "overpaid"
child support has been returned. Padgett is not in jail. He's not
asking anyone for any money. And God forbid you become another Diane
Richardson. One on a.r.s. is too many. Herr "services" only add to the
distraction that keeps news at the bottom of the heap and makes OSA
happy.
Tigger
>Cerridwen
Cerridwen
No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.
--------------------------------------------------------
On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, "Magoo" <mag...@charter.net> wrote:
>"Cerridwen" <Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header> wrote
>>
>> I think that just like the critics that feel a need to make posts alerting
>> the "newbie lurkers" to OSA,
>
>And you never answered my questions from another thread: You don't think OSA
>Is here on ARS? Do you, or don't you?
Of course there are people posting here under OSA's direction. What made you
think I didn't think that?
The fact that you even have to ask me that question tells me you don't have one
fucking clue about what I talk about and what I say.
You don't feel new people here should
>be informed of this insideous group designed to trick and lie to people,
>pretending to be critics?
Of course people should be told. And they are told. All they have to do
is read ars and they will figure it out. They don't need you constantly
reminding everyone of it. People are not as dumb as you think Tory.
>I'd like to know, please.
>
Asked and answered.
>
>I feel Diane provides a service to all the "newbies"
>> on just what type of person Padgett really is. Otherwise, Padgett
>> might scam a some new people out of their money.
>>
>> If Diane didn't do it, I'd probably remove Padgett from my killfile
>> and provide the service myself.
>>
>>
>> Cerridwen
>>
> When was the last time TP asked anyone on any newsgroup for $?
>I'd just like to know if the above statement is based on fact, or fiction.
"For years (until the week of Aug 11,2003) he solicited money
from Scientology critics on his website -- money which could better go
to true victims of Scientology harassment."
And the only reason he stopped is because Diane Richardson, took
the time to look into this creep and expose him for the con man
he is.
Believe it or not Tory, Hubbard wasn't the only con.
>
>Please post the facts, the recent facts.
I dare you to read them,Tory. I dare
you to read this entire web site and read the facts.
Or don't. Keep your blinders on and don't look or learn.
>And spare me the line of some critics are keeping him from doing so. If he
>begins, the few who are so worked up over it can whip out their
>info/attacks.
"The few who are so worked up over it" ? Can you hear what you are saying?
Are you complaining that there are people that are worked up over a con
man running his game on ars? How come you're not worked up over it?
You certainly should be. See the difference between me and you is that
when I ask you to back up what you state with some facts, you get
all bitchy and try to blow me off with a bunch of lame excuses.
When you ask me to provide dates and facts. I hand them to you.
>
>If you're lurking, here's a suggestion:
>Read the Web pages. There's much great information about the organization
>hiding behind the claok of religion, "The Church of Scientology" there.
And if you are a critic that is interested in finding out the truth about
Tom Padgett you will read
Or you can just keep those blinders on.
Cerridwen
Cerridwen
>
>>I think that just like the critics that feel a
>> need to make posts alerting the "newbie
>> lurkers" to OSA, I feel Diane provides a
>> service to all the "newbies" on just what
>> Otherwise, Padgett might scam a some
>> new people out of their money.
>
>>If Diane didn't do it, I'd probably remove
>> Padgett from my killfile and provide the
>> service myself.
>
>So Cerridwen, Ma'm?, Sir? :)
>
>Think a little harder and tell us who these people are who were scammed
>out of their money by Tom Padgett.
>
>When was the last time Padgett made any request for help?
>
>You've fallen for the Greenberg BS. The only "service" Diane Richardson
>does is keep threads flaming with off-topics and personal attacks.......
>the same things you and I dislike about Tory/Magoo's "service"
>of giving tit for tat. Good Gawd, have you seen how long that "One More
>Scientologist Free" thread is?
No I read ars with a newsreader but I took a look and see that most of
the people talking on that thread are firmly set in my kf, I see that Tory is
now spamming the hell out of that thread and it's getting even longer.
>
>Comparing Tom Padgett to OSA is ridiculous. What ever happened.....it
>happened.....it's over.
Come on Tigger. That is just is a really lame excuse.
Are you willing to make the same kind of excuses for Minton?
"What ever happened.....it >happened.....it's over. "
Don't answer that. I already know your answer.
The Padgett children are grown, the "overpaid"
>child support has been returned. Padgett is not in jail. He's not
>asking anyone for any money. And God forbid you become another Diane
>Richardson. One on a.r.s. is too many. Herr "services" only add to the
>distraction that keeps news at the bottom of the heap and makes OSA
>happy.
People who pull no punches and thwack you over the head with
truth are very rarely liked.
Disliking the messenger doesn't change the facts.
Shame on you for being so blinded by this guy. You know
I wouldn't be saying this if Padgett even once showed one ounce
of remorse. If he admitted to any of this and owned up for
what he had done and apologized for being a dickhead.
I understand people make bad choices in life and do dumb things.
I have first hand experience in that kind of dumbness. But I try
to own up to my stupidity and learn from it. Not keep repeating it
and lying about it.
But he hasn't. Instead he lies and runs his mouth and whines and
you for some reason think this is fine because he's a "critic".
Reply if you want, but I'm done talking about Tom Pagdett.
I have Christmas cookies to make. :-)
Chocolate Covered Peanutbutter Balls
These things are completely decadent.
2 sticks of butter at room temp.
14 oz of your favorite peanutbutter
2 cups of crushed up Graham Crackers ( I like the honey ones)
2 cups of confectionary sugar.
Mix and put in refrigerator to chill.
In a double boiler ( stainless steel bowl sitting on a pot with
simmering water works too) melt a 14 oz package of semi
sweet chocolate bits
Roll peanutbutter mix into 1 inch balls.
Using a toothpick dip ball into melted chocolate and place
it on a cookie sheet lined with wax paper.
Place cookie sheet in fridge and chill
Cerridwen
Lady Chatterly
>
>No I read ars with a newsreader but I took a look and see that most of
>the people talking on that thread are firmly set in my kf, I see that Tory is
>now spamming the hell out of that thread and it's getting even longer.
I know who you are but who am I?
>Come on Tigger. That is just is a really lame excuse.
How can you be so single mindedly stupid? Oh never mind. I really
don't want to know...
>Are you willing to make the same kind of excuses for Minton?
Perhaps they are only pretending to be. *shrug*.
>"What ever happened.....it >happened.....it's over. "
Your man lost.
>Don't answer that. I already know your answer.
The operative word here is "kook"
>The Padgett children are grown, the "overpaid"
>>child support has been returned. Padgett is not in jail. He's not
>>asking anyone for any money. And God forbid you become another Diane
>>Richardson. One on a.r.s. is too many. Herr "services" only add to the
>>distraction that keeps news at the bottom of the heap and makes OSA
>>happy.
S, how many of them reply to your posts or talk about you.
>People who pull no punches and thwack you over the head with
>truth are very rarely liked.
Hey, chill, alright, already? Don't be so defensive.
>Disliking the messenger doesn't change the facts.
The major physics break through for controlled gravity distortion does
happen at CERN in your future.
>Shame on you for being so blinded by this guy. You know
>I wouldn't be saying this if Padgett even once showed one ounce
>of remorse. If he admitted to any of this and owned up for
>what he had done and apologized for being a dickhead.
Just who are you anyway? What do you have to hide?
>I understand people make bad choices in life and do dumb things.
>I have first hand experience in that kind of dumbness. But I try
>to own up to my stupidity and learn from it. Not keep repeating it
>and lying about it.
And you speak of parrots.
>But he hasn't. Instead he lies and runs his mouth and whines and
>you for some reason think this is fine because he's a "critic".
The only thing that appears to be playing is your broken-record.
>Reply if you want, but I'm done talking about Tom Pagdett.
Why do you think that you are done talking about Tom pagdett?
>I have Christmas cookies to make. :-)
Indeed. Quite sad, isn't it?
>Chocolate Covered Peanutbutter Balls
Which way?
>These things are completely decadent.
Names are easier to change than bad habits. And you are no execption
to the rule.
>2 sticks of butter at room temp.
>14 oz of your favorite peanutbutter
>2 cups of crushed up Graham Crackers ( I like the honey ones)
>2 cups of confectionary sugar.
Do you think that you like the honey ones?
>Mix and put in refrigerator to chill.
There are enough kooks here to supply the entire clock industry of
Switzerland.
>In a double boiler ( stainless steel bowl sitting on a pot with
>simmering water works too) melt a 14 oz package of semi
>sweet chocolate bits
I don't know what hair is up your ass, but it sure is irritating.
>Roll peanutbutter mix into 1 inch balls.
Trolls are close relatives with the rocks and have skin as tough as
that of a rhinoceros.
>Using a toothpick dip ball into melted chocolate and place
>it on a cookie sheet lined with wax paper.
What am I? Flypaper for kooks?
>Place cookie sheet in fridge and chill
Not like that's very hard to do, rattling his cage, that is...
--
Lady Chatterly
"BTW : I am NOT responsible for anything bot related !" -- Hans
Diane Richardson
<ale...@bellatlantic.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:43:38 GMT, ref...@bway.net (Diane Richardson)
>wrote:
>
>
>
> More Scientology style de-popularization by a confirmed liar diane
>richardson see following url wherever you see this sociopath weild
>her icepick.
This sort of stuff coming from Arnie Lerma, an apologist for neo-Nazi
Willis Carto, can only be considered a compliment.
Diane Richardson
Diane Richardson
Tigger) wrote:
>You know, Diane.....you are getting crazier than Arnie Lerma. At least
>Lerma posts about Scientology.
Not only does Lerma POST about Scientology, he's a perfect
example of what can happen to you if you believe in Hubbard's
crap.
>You have spent years reposting the same OSA-like attacks over and over
>again. WE'VE HEARD IT ad nauseum. Enough is enough. At this point,
>NOBODY cares who is right....you or Padgett.
I've said this to you before, and even thought I know you've heard
it before, I'll repeat it again because you've apparently forgotten:
If you don't like what I write, don't read my posts.
In fact, I believe you've said exactly the same thing to any number
of people when they complain about your posts.
>Sure, Padgett should stop bringing up his "case" and/or trying to
>bullbait people, But what you do is no better and probably worse.
>Why don't you PROVE you are a better person than he is by DROPPING IT
>and IGNORING HIS POSTS?
Why don't you PROVE you are a better person than I am by taking the
advice you dole out to others and stop reading posts that upset you?
Diane Richardson
Diane Richardson
wrote:
[snip]
>If you're lurking, here's a suggestion:
>Read the Web pages. There's much great information about the organization
>hiding behind the claok of religion, "The Church of Scientology" there.
I'd particularly recommend reading the following website:
which shows how a liar can concoct an entirely fake story for no other
reason than to fraudulently seek attention, sympathy and money from
well-menaing people.
Hubbard was much more successful at doing it, but that doesn't
mean there aren't dozens of two-bit scam-artists like Padgett around
waiting to bilk anyone gullible enough to believe his lies.
Diane Richardson
The Last Liberal
Richardson) wrote:
> This sort of stuff coming from Arnie Lerma, an apologist for neo-Nazi
> Willis Carto, can only be considered a compliment.
> Diane Richardson
Appears Mental.
"Here's a quarter. Get you brain out of hock and send me back
the 24 cents." -- God Dan
This signature was made by SigChanger.
You can find SigChanger at: http://www.phranc.nl/
Magoo
"Cerridwen" <Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header.gmsociety.org> wrote in
message news:DJ5C0KHC38335.7274189815@anonymous.poster...
> NOTE: This message was sent thru a mail2news gateway.
> No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, "Magoo" <mag...@charter.net> wrote:
>>"Cerridwen" <Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header> wrote
>
>>>
>>> I think that just like the critics that feel a need to make posts
>>> alerting
>>> the "newbie lurkers" to OSA,
>>
>>And you never answered my questions from another thread: You don't think
>>OSA
>>Is here on ARS? Do you, or don't you?
>
> Of course there are people posting here under OSA's direction. What made
> you
> think I didn't think that?
>
> The fact that you even have to ask me that question tells me you don't
> have one
> fucking clue about what I talk about and what I say.
I asked you questions where you were posting how you were "offended" when
I posted about OSA, and a SUGGESTION I had about people who rail road
threads, which I watched OSA do, for Y E A R S. But pardon me for sharing my
idea with anyone.
So I asked...and you never answered.
Now you rail about it. Why not just answer the damned question?
>
>
> You don't feel new people here should
>>be informed of this insideous group designed to trick and lie to people,
>>pretending to be critics?
>
>
> Of course people should be told. And they are told. All they have to do
> is read ars and they will figure it out. They don't need you constantly
> reminding everyone of it. People are not as dumb as you think Tory.
I don't think people are dumb at all...just misinformed, as Andreas
originally said to me. You know they are, and what's the problem with me
telling them? If you see it, don't open it. Plain, simple,.,,,,and you won't
be offended.
Much of what I post is from direct experiences I had...which few others did.
Do you mind that? Yes, you do. Why? Well....because "We all know it".
Or, you want posts from back then, which I've told you............I'll bring
them out in court. Until, they'll (OSA) just have to guess, and you'll just
have to connect the dots all on your little ol self.
Or here's a suggestion: Don't open up anything that says OSA from me. Then
you won't be offended, and I won't have to explain it again, both wasting
our time.
>
>
>>I'd like to know, please.
>>
>
>
> Asked and answered.
>
>
>>
>>I feel Diane provides a service to all the "newbies"
>>> on just what type of person Padgett really is. Otherwise, Padgett
>>> might scam a some new people out of their money.
>>>
>>> If Diane didn't do it, I'd probably remove Padgett from my killfile
>>> and provide the service myself.
>>>
>>>
>>> Cerridwen
>>>
>> When was the last time TP asked anyone on any newsgroup for $?
>>I'd just like to know if the above statement is based on fact, or fiction.
>
>
> "For years (until the week of Aug 11,2003) he solicited money
> from Scientology critics on his website -- money which could better go
> to true victims of Scientology harassment."
Ok.....August of 2003. We're nearly in 2005! Can we PULEASE give this stupid
'fight' a break, until some actual FACTUAL information starts up again?
> www.padgettry.net
>
>
>
> And the only reason he stopped is because Diane Richardson, took
> the time to look into this creep and expose him for the con man
> he is.
>
> Believe it or not Tory, Hubbard wasn't the only con.
Honey, you're singing to the choir there. My Mother married a SUPER Con man,
after my Dad died. He was so bad NONE of this 5 kids would come to his
funeral. So ya...I have a little clue about other con men.
>
>>
>>Please post the facts, the recent facts.
>
> I dare you to read them,Tory. I dare
> you to read this entire web site and read the facts.
I have....over and over. And the points have been made, over and over and
OVER. It isn't about the abuses of Scientology............it's about someone
fighting Scientology: Not my interest.
The information has been made.
>
> www.padgettry.net
>
> Or don't. Keep your blinders on and don't look or learn.
You too ....re refusing to face the fact that constantly posting about
people who fight Scientology ~~IS~~an OSA product, 100%. I guess we all have
our little glitzes. All I care about is that people continue to educate
others re the abuses of Scientology. When this goes off the rails, I get
sick of it, plain and simple. This story is like an OLD RUG>>>>>>>>move ON.
>
>
>>And spare me the line of some critics are keeping him from doing so. If
>>he
>>begins, the few who are so worked up over it can whip out their
>>info/attacks.
>
> "The few who are so worked up over it" ? Can you hear what you are
> saying?
Uh huh.
>
> Are you complaining that there are people that are worked up over a con
> man running his game on ars? How come you're not worked up over it?
BECAUSE IT'S BEEN TOLD< 9,000 times. You don't post over on Operation
Clambake, so you missed the 8,000 posts made there. I'm sick of BOTH
sides...not just one. Every time TP mentions "The buttersquash" or other
folks, I'm sick of that JUST AS MUCH. This isn't a one sided sick of.
This is a mutual communication, really, to BOTH sides.
>
> You certainly should be. See the difference between me and you is that
> when I ask you to back up what you state with some facts, you get
> all bitchy and try to blow me off with a bunch of lame excuses.
Ya...I know. You're the top Critic on ARS< and I'm just a shmuck
X-Scientologist, telling my story. Oh well.
Congrats on your award. Keep up the GREAT work, Cerrwiden.
>
> When you ask me to provide dates and facts. I hand them to you.
Exactly.............you're much better. Oh well. I try, but I'm not as
good as you, or some of your pals.
>
>>
>>If you're lurking, here's a suggestion:
>>Read the Web pages. There's much great information about the organization
>>hiding behind the claok of religion, "The Church of Scientology" there.
>
> And if you are a critic that is interested in finding out the truth about
> Tom Padgett you will read
>
> www.padgettry.net
>
> Or you can just keep those blinders on.
>
Or people can read the Web sites, which actually will not get you into one
fight, which most people don't give a shit about.............and it WILL
tell you the facts you have been wondering about.
Your (the reader's) choice. That's the delightful thing about the Internet.
YOU can choose.
Tory/Magoo~~
Some suggested sites to read:
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.com
http://www.torymagoo.org
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
http://www.altreligionscientology.org
>
> Cerridwen
>
> http://www.truthaboutscientology.com
>
>
>
Magoo
"Tigger Tigger" <Tiggeri...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:21058-41B...@storefull-3331.bay.webtv.net...
Cerridwen wrote:
>I think that just like the critics that feel a
> need to make posts alerting the "newbie
> lurkers" to OSA, I feel Diane provides a
> service to all the "newbies" on just what
> type of person Padgett really is.
> Otherwise, Padgett might scam a some
> new people out of their money.
>If Diane didn't do it, I'd probably remove
> Padgett from my killfile and provide the
> service myself.
So Cerridwen, Ma'm?, Sir? :)
Think a little harder and tell us who these people are who were scammed
out of their money by Tom Padgett.
When was the last time Padgett made any request for help?
You've fallen for the Greenberg BS. The only "service" Diane Richardson
does is keep threads flaming with off-topics and personal attacks.......
the same things you and I dislike about Tory/Magoo's "service"
of giving tit for tat. Good Gawd, have you seen how long that "One More
Scientologist Free" thread is?
The only reason that thread is SO long is because Scientology doesn't want
Scientologists to realize they are not alone...that others are leaving too.
Thus, they've spammed it a ton. I did too, re-posting it. Then I stopped,
but that added to it also.
Comparing Tom Padgett to OSA is ridiculous. What ever happened.....it
happened.....it's over.
I agree with you, fully.
The Padgett children are grown, the "overpaid"
child support has been returned. Padgett is not in jail. He's not
asking anyone for any money. And God forbid you become another Diane
Richardson.
You meaning who?
One on a.r.s. is too many. Herr "services" only add to the
distraction that keeps news at the bottom of the heap and makes OSA
happy.
People leaving is a 'hot' topic...whether you think so or not. Just follow
their spam...and you can SEE what is and isn't hot for them.
Tory/Magoo~~
Tigger
>Cerridwen
Magoo
<Fax...@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:A1EBESZ43833...@anonymous.poster...
> NOTE: This message was sent thru a mail2news gateway.
> No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> Arnie Lerma posted: Cult Overview by Dr Louis J West
>
> I listened to the tape but I kept falling asleep.
Find your "MU" Dickhead.
T
Michael Greenberg
Tory, This has been going on for a very long time. Only in the last
year did Padgett remove
the numerous donation links. "Through the looking glass" website by
Cheryl Sola still has one last time I checked. It appears that those
donations may very well have gone towards paying his
delinquent child support payments. None of it ever went towards
fighting SCN.
Michael Greenberg
Cerridwen
>"Cerridwen" <Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header.gmsociety.org> wrote in
>>>And you never answered my questions from another thread: You don't think
>>>OSA
>>>Is here on ARS? Do you, or don't you?
>>
>> Of course there are people posting here under OSA's direction. What made
>> you
>> think I didn't think that?
>>
>> The fact that you even have to ask me that question tells me you don't
>> have one
>> fucking clue about what I talk about and what I say.
>
> I asked you questions where you were posting how you were "offended" when
>I posted about OSA, and a SUGGESTION I had about people who rail road
>threads, which I watched OSA do, for Y E A R S. But pardon me for sharing my
>idea with anyone.
>
>So I asked...and you never answered.
>Now you rail about it. Why not just answer the damned question?
I did answer the question.
Tory Asked:
>>>And you never answered my questions from another thread: You don't think
>>>OSA
>>>Is here on ARS? Do you, or don't you?
Cerridwen Answered"
>>
>> Of course there are people posting here under OSA's direction. What made
>> you
>> think I didn't think that?
< snip Tory and Cerridwen bickering>
>
>Or here's a suggestion: Don't open up anything that says OSA from me. Then
>you won't be offended, and I won't have to explain it again, both wasting
>our time.
I'll read what I want and I'll say what I want and I'll do it because I can.
>>>>
>>> When was the last time TP asked anyone on any newsgroup for $?
>>>I'd just like to know if the above statement is based on fact, or fiction.
>>
>>
>> "For years (until the week of Aug 11,2003) he solicited money
>> from Scientology critics on his website -- money which could better go
>> to true victims of Scientology harassment."
>
>Ok.....August of 2003. We're nearly in 2005! Can we PULEASE give this stupid
>'fight' a break, until some actual FACTUAL information starts up again?
Starts up again? Starts up again? Did I hear your right. You want to
wait until Tom starts promoting that he wants money to continue his
scam? Are you kidding? Why are you so forgiving of this con man
who continues to lie as he breathes?
I truly don't understand. Could you please explain to me why we should
wait for actual factual information to start up again. What's wrong
with the actual factural information that exists now on:
It isn't about the abuses of Scientology............it's about someone
>fighting Scientology: Not my interest.
>The information has been made.
Not your interest? Then why jump on this thread and defend him.
or ask specific questions about his con unless you had interest.
>The information has been made.
Yes the information has been made and apparently
the information was just completely ignored.
>>
>> www.padgettry.net
>>
>> Or don't. Keep your blinders on and don't look or learn.
>
> You too ....re refusing to face the fact that constantly posting about
>people who fight Scientology ~~IS~~an OSA product, 100%. I guess we all have
>our little glitzes. All I care about is that people continue to educate
>others re the abuses of Scientology. When this goes off the rails, I get
>sick of it, plain and simple. This story is like an OLD RUG>>>>>>>>move ON.
Funny how viewpoints differ.
You think that someone criticizing a critic of Scn is an OSA product. I think
that your viewpoint on this is narrow minded and cultic. We are at an
impasse. I don't give a shit about OSA products. I plan to continue to
give my opinion here on ars and I don't care if OSA doesn't like it and
I don't care if you don't like it. Neither you nor OSA
will tell me how to post or the "correct" way to be a "critic".
I don't respect your opinion on this subject and I will be very
vocal in opposition of it as the need arises.
>>
>>
>>>And spare me the line of some critics are keeping him from doing so. If
>>>he
>>>begins, the few who are so worked up over it can whip out their
>>>info/attacks.
>>
>> "The few who are so worked up over it" ? Can you hear what you are
>> saying?
>Uh huh.
>>
>> Are you complaining that there are people that are worked up over a con
>> man running his game on ars? How come you're not worked up over it?
>
>BECAUSE IT'S BEEN TOLD< 9,000 times. You don't post over on Operation
>Clambake, so you missed the 8,000 posts made there. I'm sick of BOTH
>sides...not just one. Every time TP mentions "The buttersquash" or other
>folks, I'm sick of that JUST AS MUCH. This isn't a one sided sick of.
>This is a mutual communication, really, to BOTH sides.
I understand. I have TP killfiled and I mainly skip over Diane's
posts when she's on back and forth with Padgett, but I still think
it has to be done because Padgett should not be allowed to come on
to the newsgroup and ingratiate himself with others while he's still
a lying piece of shit. If Padgett were on the other side i.e. still a
Scio, and still a lying piece of shit, I doubt you would complain
that Diane is taking him on. You only complain because he's a critic
which is simply astounding to me.
I don't know about you but I used to make excuses because people were Scios,
because it was their "case" etc blah, blah. It's that "he's a member of the
group" thinking. And that wouldn't be bad except he's a fucking con man,
who has shown no remorse.
>>
>> You certainly should be. See the difference between me and you is that
>> when I ask you to back up what you state with some facts, you get
>> all bitchy and try to blow me off with a bunch of lame excuses.
>
>Ya...I know. You're the top Critic on ARS< and I'm just a shmuck
>X-Scientologist, telling my story. Oh well.
>Congrats on your award. Keep up the GREAT work, Cerrwiden.
Magoo, you sound like the little girl that came in second in the
bean bag throwing contest.
I am not in any contest with you or anyone here. I do some work
that a few others consider helpful. I give my opinion when I feel
like it.
I don't know why you want to make this into some kind of
contest but please knock it off. It's completely silly.
>>
>> When you ask me to provide dates and facts. I hand them to you.
>
> Exactly.............you're much better. Oh well. I try, but I'm not as
>good as you, or some of your pals.
Girl you need a time out for excessive brattiness.
<snip>
>> Or you can just keep those blinders on.
>>
> Or people can read the Web sites, which actually will not get you into one
>fight, which most people don't give a shit about.............and it WILL
>tell you the facts you have been wondering about.
>
>Your (the reader's) choice. That's the delightful thing about the Internet.
>YOU can choose.
I agree!!
Cerridwen
Ball of Fluff
"Diane Richardson" <ref...@bway.net> wrote in message
news:41bf9c0...@news.bway.net...
> On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 09:58:21 -0600, Tiggeri...@webtv.net (Tigger
> Tigger) wrote:
>
>>You know, Diane.....you are getting crazier than Arnie Lerma. At least
>>Lerma posts about Scientology.
>
> Not only does Lerma POST about Scientology, he's a perfect
> example of what can happen to you if you believe in Hubbard's
> crap.
Hey, now. John and I are Scn'ists and were in the church a long time, used
to be very party line and we're nothing like Arnie.
C'mon, dollink...
C
Ball of Fluff
Although Cerridwen has, by now, answered that two or three times, I'll
take a whack at it.
Here it is:
There are multitudinous posts about OSA on a.r.s. at any given time,
including yours but by no means only yours. There're many others.
I heard all about OSA here from many contributors before you came to
a.r.s.
>
>
> I feel Diane provides a service to all the "newbies"
> > on just what type of person Padgett really is. Otherwise, Padgett
> > might scam a some new people out of their money.
> >
> > If Diane didn't do it, I'd probably remove Padgett from my killfile
> > and provide the service myself.
> >
> >
> > Cerridwen
> >
> When was the last time TP asked anyone on any newsgroup for $?
> I'd just like to know if the above statement is based on fact, or
fiction.
>
> Please post the facts, the recent facts.
> And spare me the line of some critics are keeping him from doing so.
If he
> begins, the few who are so worked up over it can whip out their
> info/attacks.
It isn't just a few.
>
> If you're lurking, here's a suggestion:
> Read the Web pages. There's much great information about the
organization
> hiding behind the claok of religion, "The Church of Scientology"
there.
I think all of these issues are grist for the mills of discussion.
C
Ball of Fluff
Although Cerridwen has, by now, answered that two or three times, I'll
take a whack at it.
Here it is:
There are multitudinous posts about OSA on a.r.s. at any given time,
including yours but by no means only yours. There're many others.
I heard all about OSA here from many contributors before you came to
a.r.s.
>
>
> I feel Diane provides a service to all the "newbies"
> > on just what type of person Padgett really is. Otherwise, Padgett
> > might scam a some new people out of their money.
> >
> > If Diane didn't do it, I'd probably remove Padgett from my killfile
> > and provide the service myself.
> >
> >
> > Cerridwen
> >
> When was the last time TP asked anyone on any newsgroup for $?
> I'd just like to know if the above statement is based on fact, or
fiction.
>
> Please post the facts, the recent facts.
> And spare me the line of some critics are keeping him from doing so.
If he
> begins, the few who are so worked up over it can whip out their
> info/attacks.
It isn't just a few.
>
> If you're lurking, here's a suggestion:
> Read the Web pages. There's much great information about the
organization
> hiding behind the claok of religion, "The Church of Scientology"
there.
Ball of Fluff
But he perpetuates it. He goes on and on about it. He names threads
after people. He drags me in on threads because someone allegedly said
something two years ago that CAN'T EVEN BE FOUND ON GOOGLE. Now he's
putting me- and Cerridwen- and others in his goddamn sig line. And on
OCMB just a few months ago he was trying to push me into discussing the
Padgett/Vannoy/funds/support/whooseewhatsis issue. I reminded him that
I'd not made any editorial comments about it and that he basically
should quit while he's ahead.
He's like a dog with a bone or a child with a loose tooth.
So you want to know who's responsible for the anti Padgett talk?
He is. He's responsible for what he did and he's responsible for
pushing people into talking about it which he is doing "in PT".
So that's who should be getting the scolding.
C
Pts 2
Free speech is a wonderful thing! What is not a wonderful thing is
$cientology, how they use the legal system as weapons, how they use the
media as manipulations to spin their "church" BS, and how they use the
i-net to cause discord among those who are IRL fighting activists and
those who are mere keyboard critics making noise like flatulence after a
bad mexican dinner.
OSA would just be livid at Arnie's original post here. Why? Because
Dr. West was legit and accurate. Same as Dr. Kent, Dr. singer, and so
many other academicians with credentials. They can't find anybody to
refute this info by Dr. West. So what do they do? Send in the ATTACK
troops to apply HCO-PL 2/25/66 "tech."
The Greenberg / Richardson tag-team is a given -- just more goofy
Diane-etics w/o merit.
But the bright side here is bringing Cerridwen to a new level of
exposure. Her clinging to KFs (killfiles) as a way to make her immune
to $cn's total BS, strikes me as very sad....sort of like still clinging
to the cult's "entheta avoidance" programming. Throwing out names like
Dennis Erlich and Cynthia Kisser as those who have been "fooled," gives
new meaning to "hearsay" being used as strawman weapons in basic
arguments. Those 2 are adults and very capable of expressing any dupes
they have experienced in their lifetimes. I doubt either of them would
be happy with PODs (Practitioners of Diane-etics) acting as their
mouthpieces re: matters of $cn on the internet. At least no more
happy than Lisa McPherson would be happy to Deanna Holmes or Rob "Henri"
"ptcs" Clark be the mouthpieces for her surviving relatives and their
sorrow.
Just last month, I got a court order indicating I was "overpaid" since
May 2000. The scans of of this can be found at:
http://www.kyfathers.org/stories/tompadgett.htm
No state in the USA imprisons parents for "overpayment" ...period!!!
Also scanned at this URL you will find....
2. the actual check noted as "overpayment of CS"
3. a 1/26/99 news article noting a judge's displeasure of exposing the
$cn cult and the use of fax machines -- neither of which are illegal,
immoral, or parentally incorrect.
4. a 9/26/00 news article from OSA whereby they condemn me, and push
$cn's agenda of spreading Hubbards cult as benign an acceptable as a
mainline faith w/ millions of members.
Note to Tigger: Just because a child reaches the age of adulthood, does
not mean $cn issues evaporate in the family. I know you know this and
hate to see your anti-minton indoctrination from ______________ (fill in
the blank) cloud your posts. I do continue to applaud your couragious
efforts for exposing $cn
Note to Cerridwen: YOU, like Henri/ptsc Clark, Diane-etics and her
boyfriends Keith "potty mouth" Spurgeon and Michael "u-mike" Greenberg,
Faxhor, Barb Schwartz, etc. all fit into the same category, those who
would NEVER say to ones' faces what you type from behind your keboards.
At any time, please feel free to prove me wrong!! ....or otherwsie
keeping hiding in your KFs and from behind your "anonymous" spins. :-))
Can ALL of you here focus on the late Jolly West's VAST words of wisdom
which was the original intend of the thread?
Tom
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/Scientology/
Diane Richardson
[snip]
>The Greenberg / Richardson tag-team is a given -- just more goofy
>Diane-etics w/o merit.
Here's a clue for you, Padgett. There is no such thing as
"Diane-etics." You invented it. It's a figment of your imagination.
You have a habit of inventing groups who you then declare your
enemies. That's a very bad habit. It distorts your perception of
reality. You really should see someone about that.
>But the bright side here is bringing Cerridwen to a new level of
>exposure. Her clinging to KFs (killfiles) as a way to make her immune
>to $cn's total BS, strikes me as very sad....sort of like still clinging
>to the cult's "entheta avoidance" programming.
Here we have the self-appointed King of the Internet Padgett
declaring that everyone is required to read everything on the
newsgroup, whether they like it or not, because he thinks
killfiles are "very sad." Guess what? You're not really King
of the Internet. That's another of your illusory fantasies.
> Throwing out names like
>Dennis Erlich and Cynthia Kisser as those who have been "fooled," gives
>new meaning to "hearsay" being used as strawman weapons in basic
>arguments.
You duped both Dennis Erlich and Cynthia Kisser into believing your
lies, Padgett. If you were to ask them now for what you got from them
a few years ago, both of them would turn you down flat. You know
that.
>Those 2 are adults and very capable of expressing any dupes
>they have experienced in their lifetimes.
Neither of them regularly post to this newsgroup. They don't know
you're still spewing your lies.
>I doubt either of them would
>be happy with PODs (Practitioners of Diane-etics) acting as their
>mouthpieces re: matters of $cn on the internet.
I'm not acting as anyone's "mouthpiece," Padgett. I'm telling you
the truth. If you doubt that, contact them as ask them what they
think of you. You won't do that because you're a coward and you
don't want to know the truth. You know very well what they would
say to you - if you don't, you're even a bigger fool than I though
you were.
And once again, there are no "PODs." That's another one of your
manufactured fantasies. You are *desperate* to present yourself as
a victim, even to the point of inventing victimizers. Nobody's buying
your crap anymore, Padgett.
Diane Richardson
Diane Richardson
[snip]
>Just last month, I got a court order indicating I was "overpaid" since
>May 2000. The scans of of this can be found at:
>http://www.kyfathers.org/stories/tompadgett.htm
>No state in the USA imprisons parents for "overpayment" ...period!!!
Of course it doesn't. ALL states imprison people for ignoring and
evading court-ordered summonses to appear for judicial hearings,
however.
That's why you were tossed in jail, Padgett. And guess what? It
worked! For years you lied and dissembled to keep from paying
child support, but somehow that money you didn't have magically
appeared when you were tossed in jail.
That in itself speaks volumes about your dishonesty. Keep talking,
Padgett. Your own words are your worst enemies.
>Also scanned at this URL you will find....
>
>2. the actual check noted as "overpayment of CS"
Once the state managed to pay off all those unpaid obligations of
yours they gave you back the remainder of the money. Why do you
present this as some sort of victory? The very fact that the state
had to force you to pay your obligations is enough to damn you in the
eyes of responsible people.
>3. a 1/26/99 news article noting a judge's displeasure of exposing the
>$cn cult and the use of fax machines -- neither of which are illegal,
>immoral, or parentally incorrect.
You were ordered to stop fax-bombing the judge with irrelevant garbage
about the CoS. Your divorce and child support litigation was about
YOUR refusal to live up to YOUR responsibilities. Your efforts to
deflect attention away from your own shortcomings wasn't appreciated
by the judge, and he put an end to it.
Guess what? The judge won. You LOST.
[snip]
>Note to Cerridwen: YOU, like Henri/ptsc Clark, Diane-etics and her
>boyfriends Keith "potty mouth" Spurgeon and Michael "u-mike" Greenberg,
>Faxhor, Barb Schwartz, etc. all fit into the same category, those who
>would NEVER say to ones' faces what you type from behind your keboards.
Silly boy! I've told you to your face exactly what I've said here.
Let me refresh your memory:
____________________________________
http://www.fairgamed.org/tpdcall1.htm
Diane Richardson: No...Ah....I don't see any reason for that......I'm
just going to tell you exactly the same thing I told you on the
newsgroup. I'm not really sure why you think it's so strange that I
would say to you to your face what I have written on
alt.religion.scientology.
Tom Padgett: Just a wild theory....
Diane: Well, It's a very wild
Tom: go ahead....set it up.
Diane: theory, because you know, I've told it all to you on the
newsgroup. I think you're dishonest.....I think you're lying.....I
think you're doing it.....because it's a way of turning your scummy
behavior with your family into some sort of a....noble dead when all
you've been doing is....you know, ignoring your children except when
you use them as ah, weapons against your ex wife. And I don't think
anybody who does that deserves any sort of respect, let alone,
admiration. Ah...I don't know....I can keep on going on if you want me
to.
Tom: Sure, go ahead.
Diane: I'm....(laugh) I, ah.......You've lied.....you've lied about me
and you've lied to me. Ah, you don't keep agreements....you slither
outof things. Ah, you're a weasel. Ah, let me think of what else I can
tell you (laugh)....I could go on and on with this, I guess. I,
ah.....I think you've been very dishonest...dishonest, not only with
the people on the newsgroup....ah, but I think you've been dishonest
with your family members and ah.......I think you've probably spent a
good part of your life lying.........and, ah, refusing to take
responsibility for your own behavior.....an, and about this time in
your life, you've turned into, what I consider, a professional victim.
Ah, you do it unthinkingly. Ah, you're so used to lying that
ah.....it's just turned into a way of life for you. So, that's it. I
don't know what else I can tell you.
__________________________________________
>At any time, please feel free to prove me wrong!!
I did just that, Padgett. You are lying.
Of course, that's not going to keep you from spewing your lies all
over this newsgroup. You'll keep lying and I'll keep proving that
you're lying.
You seem determined to convince everyone who reads this newsgroup that
you're a liar and a fraud, Padgett. Keep it up.
And if there's *anyone* out there who doesn't know the extent of
Padgett's lies and fraud, you can get the whole story at
Diane Richardson
Tigger Tigger
Cerridwen wrote:
(snip of Cerridwen/Magoo tug of war)
>
> Starts up again? Starts up again? Did I hear your right. You want
to
> wait until Tom starts promoting that he wants money to continue his
> scam? Are you kidding? Why are you so forgiving of this con man
> who continues to lie as he breathes?
>
> I truly don't understand. Could you please explain to me why we
should
> wait for actual factual information to start up again.
LOL..... that is a perfect example of George Dubya thinking if there
ever was one. Never mind what the facts are.....invade
Iraq.......destroy Tom Padgett. Hey Iraq "might" have weapons of mass
destruction......Hey Padgett "might" ask for money.....Hey Padgett
"might" get a few pennies from someone.
You and Diane claim to know the facts.....how many people ever gave
*any* money to Padgett? How many complained? Shoot I couldn't get
any of the "critics" to donate a few bucks to get the Lisa wrongful
death suit to trial. From what I've seen, this is the most tight
fisted group when it comes to money that I have ever seen. Sure Mikey
Gormez put up a website for Padgett and complained after Richardson and
Spurgeon did their "Operation Get Padgett". Who else?
But what Richardson/Spurgeon did, and Richardson is still doing. is/was
not done as a service for "newbies". It was done because Padgett
wouldn't shut up and quit with the snide remarks about them. So don't
make Richardson out to be some do-gooder, who's doing this to "warn the
newbies". The "service" Richardson is doing is letting "newbies" know
they should never disagree with her and/or get on her "shit list".
If you, Ceridwen, ever got on her shit list, she would out your idenity
or that of your spouse, if she could, in the blnk of an eye....never
mind that it might make it dangerous or make trouble for you or your
family.
Sure, Tom Padgett was/is an idiot for keeping up his taunts, but
Richardson was a downright bitch for putting up an OSA-type dead agent
website.
So please spare us "What a wonderful person Diane Richardson is and what
a great service she is doing for mankind and "newbies".
Tigger
BTW Comparing Padgett to Minton is absolutely asinine. Whatever Padgett
did or didn't do and you and Richardson don't know the whole story
(Court Documents do not the WHOLE story tell.), he didn't do anything
even remotely as horrible as what Minton did or tried to do to Ken
Dandar and Lisa's family. According to information leaked by Bunker
and Lerma, Minton must still be trying to do his bit for the COS/OSA.
Both Padgett and Richardson should shut up about each other. IF/WHEN
Padgett ever asks for money again, then Richardson and you can do your
thing and warn mankind and the "newbies".
Until then, Padgett and Richardson should have restraining orders to
STAY AWAY FROM EACH OTHER.
Ditto for Michael Greenberg and Tom Padgett.
gandow
> On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 22:13:08 -0600, pt...@webtv.net (Pts 2) wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>
>>The Greenberg / Richardson tag-team is a given -- just more goofy
>>Diane-etics w/o merit.
>
>
> Here's a clue for you, Padgett. There is no such thing as
> "Diane-etics." You invented it. It's a figment of your imagination.
>
it seems, that You really have no sense of humour.
So You not even get it when someone makes a joke about You.
I guess it is because Diane-etics really works.
Or is it misspelled and they are simply Your Diane-tics?
TG
Tigger Tigger
Padgett didn't invent Diane-etics. The Big, Bad, Tigger done it.
realpch
<snip>
>
> I truly don't understand. Could you please explain to me why we should
> wait for actual factual information to start up again. What's wrong
> with the actual factural information that exists now on:
>
> www.padgettry.net
Ahem. It works for me!
; )
Peach
Diane Richardson
wrote:
>Diane Richardson wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 22:13:08 -0600, pt...@webtv.net (Pts 2) wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>
>>>The Greenberg / Richardson tag-team is a given -- just more goofy
>>>Diane-etics w/o merit.
>>
>>
>> Here's a clue for you, Padgett. There is no such thing as
>> "Diane-etics." You invented it. It's a figment of your imagination.
>>
>Hey Diane,
>it seems, that You really have no sense of humour.
Hey Gandow,
It seems, that You really buy into Padgett's fantasy.
>So You not even get it when someone makes a joke about You.
So You not even get it when someone makes a joke about You, either.
>I guess it is because Diane-etics really works.
Diane-etics doesn't really exist, Gandow. Padgett is delusional and
you buy into his delusion. Something that doesn't exist cannot
"work."
>Or is it misspelled and they are simply Your Diane-tics?
That sentence doesn't make sense in English. Maybe it means
something in Your German.
Diane Richardson
Diane Richardson
Tigger) wrote:
[snip]
>But what Richardson/Spurgeon did, and Richardson is still doing. is/was
>not done as a service for "newbies". It was done because Padgett
>wouldn't shut up and quit with the snide remarks about them. So don't
>make Richardson out to be some do-gooder, who's doing this to "warn the
>newbies". The "service" Richardson is doing is letting "newbies" know
>they should never disagree with her and/or get on her "shit list".
You claim to know my motivation. You have absolutely no means of
reading my mind about this or any other issue. You are stating your
personal opinion as if it is a provable fact.
The fact is that you are wrong. You cannot read my mind and you
don't have infallible insights into other people's motivations. You
do nothing more than make a fool of yourself.
>If you, Ceridwen, ever got on her shit list, she would out your idenity
>or that of your spouse, if she could, in the blnk of an eye....never
>mind that it might make it dangerous or make trouble for you or your
>family.
I have never outed anyone, Tigger. You claim you know what I would
do, but you have absolutely no basis for this opinion, outside of your
obvious animus towards me.
>Sure, Tom Padgett was/is an idiot for keeping up his taunts, but
>Richardson was a downright bitch for putting up an OSA-type dead agent
>website.
You choose to characterize my website as "an OSA-type dead agent
website," but there are many who completely disagree with you on that.
I have been *thanked* by critics for doing the research on Padgett's
litigation and making it public. People have changed their opinions
of Padgett after reading the court records of his litigation. You
don't like that, so you label it "an OSA-type dead agent website."
>So please spare us "What a wonderful person Diane Richardson is and what
>a great service she is doing for mankind and "newbies".
She has her opinion of me and you have yours, Tigger. Your opinions
obviously differ. That's not news.
Wouldn't you really rather be following Mark Bunker around battering
him?
>Tigger
>
>BTW Comparing Padgett to Minton is absolutely asinine. Whatever Padgett
>did or didn't do and you and Richardson don't know the whole story
>(Court Documents do not the WHOLE story tell.),
When the WHOLE story is a made up pack of lies about what happened
in court, the court documents ARE the whole story. Even you should be
able to understand that.
>he didn't do anything
>even remotely as horrible as what Minton did or tried to do to Ken
>Dandar and Lisa's family. According to information leaked by Bunker
>and Lerma, Minton must still be trying to do his bit for the COS/OSA.
>
>Both Padgett and Richardson should shut up about each other. IF/WHEN
>Padgett ever asks for money again, then Richardson and you can do your
>thing and warn mankind and the "newbies".
Recently Padgett's been trying to assume the role of King of the
Internet, deciding who's allowed to post and what they're allowed to
say. Now I see you're vying for Queen of the Internet.
Will you and Padgett be battling it out in public again when the two
of you disagree on who is qualified to post here? I imagine so ....
>Until then, Padgett and Richardson should have restraining orders to
>STAY AWAY FROM EACH OTHER.
I'm nowhere near Padgett, Tigger. Neither are you. If you think you
have a case, why not go to court and see if you can fool a judge into
issuing such an order?
>Ditto for Michael Greenberg and Tom Padgett.
Someday you'll learn you can't dictate what others can post, Tigger.
I'm not about to hold my breath until that happens, though.
Diane Richardson
>
The Initials
"Diane Richardson" <ref...@bway.net> wrote in message
news:41c282c8...@news.bway.net...
> On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:18:31 -0600, Tiggeri...@webtv.net (Tigger
> Tigger) wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> You choose to characterize my website as "an OSA-type dead agent
> website," but there are many who completely disagree with you on that.
> I have been *thanked* by critics for doing the research on Padgett's
> litigation and making it public. People have changed their opinions
> of Padgett after reading the court records of his litigation. You
> don't like that, so you label it "an OSA-type dead agent website."
>
> Diane Richardson
>
>>
>
Hey Diane:
I don't see any mention of here of what that website address is?
Do you?
--
Larry
My Site:
www.larryontheweb.freeservers.com
Their Site:
www.religiousfreedomwatch.org
The Other Site:
www.scientology.org
Pts 2
This thread was about the great wisdom of the late Jolly West. Some
cult apologists have tried to sabotage this theme into usual
hate-mongering and pro-cult spins so typical of OSA.
Some FACTS:
1. Dr. J. West was sanctioned by the UC-LA for his work with cults.
2. Dr. M. Singer was sanctioned by the UC-Berkeley for her work in
cults.
3. Dr. S. Kent is sanctioned by the Univ. of Alberta re: his work in
aberrative religions.
4. There is no sanctioning by Cornell Univ. of Diane Richardson, a
school librarian there, and her efforts with $cn apologists and distain
of ex-scientologists and activists against the abuses of $cn and other
cults.
5. I (me) :-)) did not "create" or "invent" Diane-etics -- yet another
false claim by Ms. Richardson as Tigger clarified and corrected above.
6. Charles W. Boteler, Jr. stated on 12/5/93 "I don't know what cult
is." (on video transcripts)
7. Charles W. Boleter, Jr. ORDERED on 3/18/94 "Scientology is
inadmissible in these proceedings."
8. Michael Greenberg's deepthroat (insider with the hate-mongering
$cienos and cult apologists) is William R. Whitledge, per Tigger and
Diane "etics" Richardson.
9. Arnie is correct here when he states Dr. West's tape is a critical
numero uno source for understanding destructive cults like $cn. PODs
have cited no other alternative informational taped sources. As
expected, just more application of HCO-PL 2/25/66 -- "ATTACK NEVER
DEFEND, ...feed blood lurid sex crimes to the media."
Tom
-------------------------
www.FairGamed.org
"All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for
good me to do nothing." ~ Edmund Burke (1729-97)
Take head to the sage wisdom above and listen to a good man (Jolly West)
trying to do something to fight evil forces.
Michael Greenberg
Thats just one more Lie Padgett. From all the documentation available
regarding
the case. Lauras attorney William Whitledge never knew or ever
associated with
any scientologists ever. There was never any SCN influence of any kind,
ever.
You told people here you needed money to fight the scientologists that
were trying to ruin you. It was a lie also. You needed donations
because you didnt want to work
for almost 10 years. All the money went towads paying your delinquent
child support.
Thats rich.
Michael Greenberg
Lady Chatterly
L l.
--
Lady Chatterly
"Dave Rice could be also Lady Chatterly. Is trolling all he ever
does?" -- StilllovingCharlesManson
pt...@webtv.net
All available documentation (orders) state "$cn is INADMISSABLE in
these proceedings."
> regarding
> the case. Lauras attorney William Whitledge never knew or ever
> associated with
> any scientologists ever.
Hmmmmm.... that's odd here's Whitledge with his client who testifies
under oath she's a "MEMBER OF THE CHURCH OF $CN."
http://www.xenutv.com/interviews/padgett/index.html
What you meant to say is Whitledge never knew or associated with any
$cienos until the Vannoys hired him! Right?
>
> You told people here you needed money to fight the scientologists
that
> were trying to ruin you. It was a lie also. You needed donations
> because you didnt want to work
> for almost 10 years. All the money went towads paying your delinquent
> child support.
> Thats rich.
You have rich imagination and sadistic sense of humor.
OSA luvs ya bud!
>
> Michael Greenberg, a POD !!
Summary, here we have a further examples of the 3Ds. Disinformation,
Deflection and Diane-etics.
>
>
> >
> > 9. Arnie is correct here when he states Dr. West's tape is a
critical
> > numero uno source for understanding destructive cults like $cn.
PODs
> > have cited no other alternative informational taped sources. As
> > expected, just more application of HCO-PL 2/25/66 -- "ATTACK NEVER
> > DEFEND, ...feed blood lurid sex crimes to the media."
> >
> > Tom
> > -------------------------
> > www.FairGamed.org
> >
> > "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world
is
> for
> > good me to do nothing." ~ Edmund Burke (1729-97)
> >
> > Take head to the sage wisdom above and listen to a good man (Jolly
> West)
> > trying to do something to fight evil forces.
Oh U-mikey, any comments on the TOPIC of this thread? Dr. West? His
tape? Is it too much entheta fer ya?
Tom
-----------------------------
www.xenutv.com www.lermanet.com
Diane Richardson
[snip]
>7. Charles W. Boleter, Jr. ORDERED on 3/18/94 "Scientology is
>inadmissible in these proceedings."
[yawn] At least you could invent NEW lies instead of incessantly
repeating the old lies that have been soundly refuted a number of
times.
From Judge Boteler:
____________________________________
"KRS 403.270 provides that the Court shall consider all relevant
factors in determining the best interests of the children as to
custody determinations. It is easy to imagine certain inquiries that
could touch on religion and child custody. For instance, evidence
that children were being exposed to dangerous practices (snake
handling), or that they were being deprived of life sustaining medical
treatment, or that the children were being deprived of basic
necessities of life; all would affect a determination of the best
interests of these children. However, the questions propounded
by Mr. Padgett DO NOT GO TO THE WELFARE OF THE CHILDREN
BUT RATHER TO MS. PADGETT'S INVOLVEMENT IN AND
EXPLANATION OF SCIENTOLOGY. [emphasis added]
* * * * * * * * * *
Requiring the petitioner to defend her beliefs when NO PRIMA FACIE
CASE OF A HARMFUL EFFECT ON THE CHILDREN has been made
would violate both clauses of the First Amendment to the United States
Constitution (made applicable to the States by the Fourteenth
Amendment). [emphasis added]
______________________________________________
If Padgett or his experts had been able to come up with just one
example of how his children were harmed because of their mother's
connection to Scientology, the judget would have listened. But he
didn't, because he couldn't. The people he brought in as so-called
"experts" hadn't even met or interviewed the children. All they
could do was give general descriptions of bad things that had happened
to other people in Scientology. Judge Boteler wanted *specific*
examples of how Scientology had hurt the Padgett children. Padgett
couldn't give him any examples.
How many times are you going to continue pushing those same old lies,
Padgett? People stopped believing you a long, long time ago. By
repeating those old lies, all you're doing is reminding people why
they as far away from you as possible.
Diane Richardson
Diane Richardson
[snip]
>5. I (me) :-)) did not "create" or "invent" Diane-etics -- yet another
>false claim by Ms. Richardson as Tigger clarified and corrected above.
Ah, so Tigger shares her fantasies with you!
Tigger "invented" Diane-etics and you now happily fantasize about it
with her.
How ... touching!
Diane Richardson
Diane Richardson
[snip[
>9. Arnie is correct here when he states Dr. West's tape is a critical
>numero uno source for understanding destructive cults like $cn. PODs
>have cited no other alternative informational taped sources.
That's because there's no such thing as a "POD," Padgett. That's
your fantasy. Have you shared that fantasy with Tigger yet?
She's panting in anticipation just waiting to hear it!
Diane Richardson
Michael Greenberg
content
of any published accounts,video or otherwise to be genuine
representations of events. Its meaningless. Sound bytes are edited and
disengenuous.
Only your Lies remain Padgett.
Michael Greenberg
Michael Greenberg
no opinion right now. What I do know is certainly
overshadowed by his involvement in one of the dirtiest, infamous ops in
US Intelligence history. "MKULTRA"
Idiot.
Michael Greenberg
Pts 2
Schwartz. Make ARS unpleasant, unreliable, and unreadable.
Neither have anything to say re: Dr. Jolly West. Ziltch! Both in the
words of LRH practice this instead.... "Never discuss _Scientology_ with
the critic. Just discuss his or her crimes, known or unknown. And act
confident that those crimes exist." ~ From Feisty's recent ARS post.
DIANE-ETICS, The Modern Science of Mental ________________(fill in the
blank.)
Tom
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/Scientology/
arnie lerma
Jolly West lectures on "Cult Phenomenon - Mental Health, Legal and
Religious Implications"
Transcribed by Fiesty
Audio tape webbed HERE
http://www.lermanet.com/audio/cultoverview-LJWest-part1.rm
http://www.lermanet.com/audio/cultoverview-LJWest-part2.rm
Transcript webbed HERE
http://www.lermanet.com/audio/cultoverview-LJWest.htm
<p>From a conference held in Los Angeles California, and observed
jointly by the Department of Continuing Education and Health Sciences
of the UCLA extension; by the NeuroPsychiatric Institute which is this
facility and by the Southern California Psychiatric Society.
<p>There are two very different public images of the contemporary
organizations sometimes called cults. Especially of those to which the
adjective, religious is usually attached. One these images might be
called Utopian, which suggests emergence of a healthy, new spiritual
sectarianism. This image portrays congregations of Pilgrims, who after
a search for a meaning in life, or truth or self-fulfillment haven
found a band of kindred spirits, under the benign guidance of a
divinely inspired prophet, guru, master, or [unintelligible]. They are
busy living happily. Their bliss is only occasionally troubled by
memories of the doomed society they left behind. Or the unwarranted
intrusions of ignorant, misguided family members, and their monstrous
agents, called deprogrammers.
<p>This invokes the spirits of Dante Alighieri and his 14th century
Vision of Hell. We see the cult, the place where men, women and
children are bound to a satanic master. They trusted him in a happier
time, believing his promises, sinking by imperceptible stages deeper
and deeper into his power. Surrendering their possessions, their
children, their very souls for his mysterious purpose. With Dante we
follow them to this distant place. Where size, lamentations and loud
wailings resound through the starless air. So then at first, it makes
us weep. We hear in the immortal words of Dante, words of pain, tones
of anger, voices loud and hoarse. And with these, the sounds of hands
making a tumult which is whirling through that air forever, as sand
eddies in a whirlwind. Above the whispers of the damned we might hear
a single child's voice calling out, 'I'd die for you, dad.' A
quotation from the Jonestown tapes.
<p>My perspective on the cult is neither Utopian nor [unintelligible].
It is I hope, objective and scientific. All of the training and the
experience accumulated during 33 years in the practice of medicine, a
completely detached observer would have to be from another planet.
My own study of cults began in a serious stage I'd say, as an outgrown
of earlier research on hallucinogenic drugs. This interest led me to
study of the people who were using them first, for presumably
therapeutic reasons, and then for recreation. This in turn led me to
the hippies, the Haight Ashbury, the counter culture, the rebellions
of the 1960's. And following those subjects, since took me from the
Haight Ashbury to the communes of Mendocino County and, to a great
many organizations which took many individuals who were addicted, or
otherwise damaged by drugs of abuse in the 1960's, and attempted to
provide them with a healthier environment. Caretaking groups,
including some that became cults by my definition, for example
Synanon.
<p>It has been estimated that there are now 2,500 cults in America,
the majority of which could be termed religious. I don't know how many
there are. But however many there are, clearly they are not all the
same. Elsewhere, I have differentiated them from communes of which
there are also many. The ones I call cults are characterized first, by
a strong or charismatic leader who directs a power structure of some
kind. Second by a manifesto, book, doctrine or code which as
interpreted by the leadership, governs the behavior of the members
through various rules. And third, a relatively firm boundary that
clearly defines who is in the organization, who is out, and who, and
under what circumstances may pass in either direction. The communes
are quite different in all three of these respects.
<p>The term, sect I use in the dictionary sense, as a branch or an
outgrowth of an
existing religion, although not necessarily so, but with emphasis on
beliefs rather than on organization and power structure. To this
relatively recent study of cults, I brought a longstanding interest in
hypnosis, altered states of consciousness, coercive persuasion, often
nicknamed brainwashing, and certain organizations engaged in non
professional, or idiosyncratic psychotherapies.
<p>Thus I have observed and followed the growth and evolution of
Dianetics since 1950.Dianetics you will recall, became the Church of
Scientology and thrived. In contrast,recently the Center for Feeling
Therapy here in Los Angeles, which remained secular, collapsed. This
corresponds with a history of Utopian Societies in California as
studied during the century, from 1850-1950. Some fifty of these
organizations were studied and in the actuarial sense, the lifespan of
the religious ones was approximately double that of the secular ones.
The average being twenty years.
<p>At the outset, let me specify certain things that I think must be
kept in mind. Not all cults are religious. Not all religious sects,
even new or strange ones are cults. Not all cults do harm to their
members, or their members families. And even those that do harm to
some, may benefit others. In fact, their practices may result in both
benefit and harm to the same person. And talking to fifty members of a
subject a group not long ago, I asked them how many felt that they had
been harmed by their experiences, and at least 90 percent said they
had. Then I asked how them how many thought they had also been helped,
and about the same percentage said they had.
<p>Certainly there are a number of cults or similar organizations that
at some time pose significant threats to the well-being of some of
their members. And because of this, our approach and the nature of
today's conference has been to inspect these threats to well-being.
This conference is not intended as a comprehensive forum on the nature
of new religions, nor as a debate. It is oriented to look at one
aspect of this problem. The harms or abuses that may come, and how
they can be corrected, and how those who have been harmed may be cared
for. I say this because we've received a good deal of mail
[unintelligible - alledging? ] that our program is not balanced and
that we should have had representatives of the cult organizations that
is, currently enrolled representatives, so to speak.
<p>The decision to do it this way was mine. If I were going to be
sponsoring a course, lets say on sports injuries, or what to do about
them and how to protect people against them, I might have orthopedic
surgeons and those who are responsible for designing better equipment
and so on. I wouldn't feel obliged to include people who wanted to
talk about the benefits of the physical conditioning, or the joys of
competition. Perhaps another model might be a public health model. If
we were having a conference on food poisonings. Even if only one
percent of all canned stringed beans contained botulism, we would be
concentrating on the various means of detecting, inspecting and
treating the people who got the disease and not about the benefits of
nutrition from stringed beans.
<p>Therefore, we want to concentrate on the growing evidence of
misdeeds or damaging practices, by some of these contemporary
organizations, whether they are perpetrated in the name of religion or
psychology or healing or transportation to other planets, or whatever.
These threats are to a considerable degree covered up, minimized and
obscured by the organizations in which they transpire. Not unlike the
activities of some manufacturers who don't want to change their
practices lets say, with regard to effluent into the waters or into
air.
<p>The implications of the rising power of cults go beyond the
question of harm to
individuals and their families. There are also important, other civil
issues. For
example, in the election several days ago, the followers of Bhagwan
Shree Rajneesh essentially took over the small town in Antelope,
Oregon. As the Los Angeles Times pointed out on that day, the prospect
of a so-called new age religion becoming a city raises perplexing
questions about the Constitutional rights of religious communities
and the meaning of self government.
<p>For example, the proliferation of new cult-like cities in remote
places. Would such a city precipitate a church-state conflict because
cities received state money from taxes on liquor, tobacco or gasoline,
as well as qualify for subsidies and grants? Could the religious
groups leader become an autocratic ruler, whose bidding would be
accomplished by a city council composed of his loyal subjects? And the
city then be transformed back into the 16th Century. And would the
city's police chief have access to FBI files and crime labs and so
on, so forth?
<p>But most of our concern about cults has been with regard to
individuals who have been recruited, who have been members, and who
are still members or who have departed. Information has been
accumulated from various scandals that have reached the media. From
refugees, from families, relatives, friends and from a few direct
investigations. It's difficult to obtain hard data. Some cults
systematically deceive the public, conceal information, harass
critics, and intimidate or dominate their own members to prevent a
free flow of information. Even so, existing data now sufficed to
convince any reasonable person that this is an important social issue,
one that should be investigated and one that has issue mental health
implications.
<p>Today, a good many people are dead, dying, ill, malfunctioning,
crippled or
developing improperly as a result of their involvement with cults in
this country.
Some of them are being exploited, end up their lives and energies are
being used for the benefit of a cult leader or his organization rather
than themselves. Evidence is available to show that, in the name of
religion. Persons connected with various cults recently have, and
there are extensive documentation for all of this: Harassed and
intimidated members who try to leave the group. Created ill-feelings
by members towards their families; Murdered a government informant;
Harassed ex-members and investigators who attempted to investigate
cult abuses; Attempted extortion from relatives; Amassed stores of
weapons; Misrepresented the true purpose of their group; Received
illegal employment insurance payments; Plotted to infiltrate
government agencies and did so infiltrate and stole government
documents; Forced prostitution on members and encouraged sexual play
between adults and children; Sentenced a nine-year old child to
isolation in the desert for several months; Beaten, hosed down,
sexually assaulted, murdered, starved to death, and tortured members,
even children; Denied medical help for members under various
conditions including childbirth; Induced illness and even death in
members through improper dietary restrictions and stress; Required
members to obtain abortions, to engage in unhealthy behaviors, to
marry strangers and even, to commit suicide.
<p>In spite of such evidence however, we find the strange lack of
public interest and attention to the phenomenon. Although of course
the people in the cult organizations feel the other way about it. And
one group that's very interesting to me, are those that I would call
apologists. These individuals whose motivations are various or mixed,
undoubtedly contribute to the veneer of respectability but behind
which, strange and ugly things are happening. Some of the apologists
appear to be romantics, projecting into the cults some of their own
hopes for religious reform, spiritual rebirth, rejection of
materialism, or even escape from the dangers of the
thermonuclear age.
<p>Other apologists take a more seemingly pragmatic stand, shrugging
off whatever abuses the cults may perpetrate, or denying that they're
anything more than media exaggerations; while pointing out that any
countermeasures would violate freedom of religion, as guaranteed by
the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United
States.
<p>Still other apologists appear to have been successfully gulled by
cult leaders or their representatives. Some declared that they have
visited cults and been impressed by what they found. Others know
someone, whose is in trouble before joining a cult and now seems to be
much better off.
<p>Many of the apologists are armchair philosophers really, who have
never seen the destructive effects of these organizations. Others have
some contact with carefully selected cult members, but have never seen
the raw operations or the devastating, long range consequences for
some victims and their families. Still others are themselves direct or
indirect beneficiaries of the cults money, power or influence, and
thus hardly objective in their apologia. Although they may pretend to
be so and they conceal their connection with these organizations. They
are, in a sense, lobbyists without full disclosure.
<p>The prophesies used by cults to recruit idealistic or lonely
youngsters, to control them, to exploit them, have been described in
detail elsewhere, and I'm not going to
go into that myself today.
<p>The economic political and legal techniques currently employed by
the cults to preserve and expand their wealth, power, size and
especially their respectability are apparent in many ways. These ways
include the enormous pressures recently put on the University of
California to cancel this conference, or to change the program
dramatically. Such pressures have included vicious, personal attacks
upon the participants, in which considerable deception and
misinformation was used. Obviously, the cults and their agents don't
extend their extremely broad definition of religious freedom to any
great concern for freedom of inquiry or freedom of speech.
<p>The sustained and growing power of cults in America depends in no
small part, upon the influence of these apologists who are not
apparently members, or have no known connection with the cults. From
the viewpoint of social science it may be appropriate to look at these
apologists more closely. Most of them are drawn from the following
groups, although it should certainly be kept in mind that the vast
majority of these groups are not involved at all. By when I say not
involved, I mean one way or the other.
<p>First, mental health professionals and behavioral scientists. Many
of these individuals have little direct knowledge about cult
phenomenon Their inclination is to assume that those who entered cults
have drifted into them, perhaps as an escape from bad family
situation, or in a search for relief from symptoms of psychopathology,
or even to find an oasis of peace in the violent wastelands and social
stresses of the modern era.
<p>Some colleagues sincerely believe that even the strangest of cults
may be serving a therapeutic purpose, functioning as sheltered
workshops for neurotic [unintelligible] or youngsters. As Dr. Singer
from whom we'll hear later has previously shown, certain published
studies of cults have probably invalidated by the bias inherent in
this orientation. A bias that effects the examination of the data.
Such studies by inspecting the victims, or their families tend to
overlook the powerful techniques that cults apply to insure a good
supply of grist for the mills of their power. There are even those who
question whether such techniques exist, shrugging off the voluminous
data, both clinical and experimental on course of persuasion, group
dynamics, the power of the situational demand characteristic. And the
impact of stress and successfully inducing compliance. Meanwhile,
attempts by other colleagues to express views critical of cults have
met with individual threats of harassment as I mentioned, and even I
might say, of this building.
<p>Second there's the media. Coverage can be described as spotty as
best. There are a few exceptions. For example the Point Reyes Light
expose of Synanon which won the Pulitzer Prize; segments of 60 Minutes
on Scientology and on the Worldwide Church of God; and a few others.
However, except when faced with a major scandal or tragedy, newspapers
have ventured very little into this arena. The reasons are clear. The
media are likely commercial ventures. Their business is easily
threatened by loss of advertising, boycotts or lawsuits. Even more
important, editors tend to keep hands off certain topics, like
religion, unless there's something that's really news.
<p>Slaughter 913 people, that's news. Put a rattlesnake into
somebody's mailbox, smaller news. The torture-murder of a
seventeen-year old informant against the cult was given little
coverage. And many stories by individuals that one might consider
very interesting and newsworthy, can't penetrate the media. By calling
their systematic exploitation of people religious, certain
organizations have protected themselves in a sense, from the power of
the press, because the religion page is not oriented to investigative
journalism. It's purpose in most paper is to religion, and to satisfy
the religionists and their version of the activities that will give
coverage. Religion editors aren't supposed to offend anyone, and as a
rule they don't. As for television and radio, there is no religious
news coverage to speak of, unless someone shoots the Pope.
Individuals who seek out the media to tell about their personal
experiences I'd say, get short shrift.
<p>In fact, a major TV effort to expose Jonestown, one month before
Congressman Ryan's trip to Guyana might have saved more than 900
lives, had it not been squelched by NBC executives, following
harassment, letters, telephone calls and threats of libel suits. Even
books are not immune. One writers expose of Scientology was withdrawn
by the publishers, and the authors life nearly smashed as a result of
Scientology's well-executed attack on her, which they called Operation
Freakout.
<p>Then there's the law and the political establishments. Now the law
is not a unitary or static thing it's an enormous body of writ,
documentation, history and prose, with billions of words on printed
pages. But the law is also a living thing, a dynamic thing. Existing
law is constantly being interpreted by judges to give it functional
meaning. And new law is constantly being produced by those who are
responsible for it's creation - lawmakers, or legislators. New laws
also change old laws. And it is the duty of the courts again, to make
interpretations, to make those laws live, and have influence upon the
affairs of man. If we look at legislatures and courts, it appears that
they have made little progress in relation to the cults.
<p>Criminal justice people try to investigate cults, but are often
frustrated by legal barriers. Given the growing body of evidence about
the [unintelligible] of cults, and in the aftermath of Jonestown,
where are the new laws? I'll mention one in a minute, that went the
wrong way. Where are the fact finding commissions, the hearings about
whether such laws are needed, and should be passed? Where are the
public debates? This is as close to such a thing as we can provide,
and it is not a debate.
<p>In 1974, a thorough investigation of the Children of God was
conducted by the honorable Louis J. Lefkowitz, at that time the
Attorney General of New York. Abundant proof was discovered, of course
in mind control techniques used by the group to intimidate and
virtually enslave its members. However the report concluded: despite
the fact as outlined and I quote, 'no direct action by the Attorney
General can be taken at this time against the Children of God because
of the Constitutional protection of the First Amendment.' Endquote.
Where are the judges who view the Constitution as such, as to explore
whether the First Amendment was really intended to provide immunity
for con artists, brutal power mongers or homicidal maniacs? As 10A
points out, the Justice Department's interpretation of religious
validity means, quote, 'if one is psychotic enough to have delusions,
but clever enough to choose religious themes, then one is immune from
societal intervention.' Endquote.
Perhaps the partial explanation of the laws role of passive bedfellows
of the cults can be found in the organized efforts, of cults who
intimidate and discredit lawmakers who try to take action. For
example, one recalls the church of Scientology's Operation Snapper,
directed at California's Deputy Attorney General Lawrence Tapper. Or
their efforts to quash a Florida bill designed to regulate
psychological practices, as well as their efforts against the Mayor of
Clearwater, Florida, Gabriel Cazares who was a critic. DelGado's
monograph in the Southern California Law Review gave a clear
discussion of the First Amendment as a protective for people rather
than as a protective for organizations that maybe abusing it. But
apart from some discussion by scholars, much of it negative, little
has happened since, and DelGado's suggestions have been virtually
ignored. The recent finding for the Daily Mail in the Unifications
churches libel action against that newspaper offers hope that
America's jurisprudence eventually may follow suit.
<p>Next, there's the American Civil Liberties establishment. The ACLU
achieved a sizable
membership, prestige and considerable war chest through the years, by
protecting individuals from the tyranny of groups. Such groups usually
were [unintelligible] given God given liberties that we all declare to
be so important. Today with regard to cults, there is debate about
freedom. One side holds that the person who was in the cult should be
free to stay, or that the cult should be free to protect him in his
putative desire to stay. The other side holds that the person in the
cult should be free to leave. Or if there is suspicion by interested
parties about whether or not he is truly free to leave, then those
with personal attachments to the subject should be able to create
situations in which the issue of his freedom to stay, or leave can be
objectively determined.
<p>It is known that the church of Scientology has been striving to
infiltrate the ACLU. We don't know how far they may have gone. But
some of us old time admirers and members of the ACLU have become very
troubled over that organizations seeming bias in favor of the cults
side of this debate. When the ACLU was founded, one of its most
important qualities was that it was a legally oriented entity but
separate from our formal legal system. And separate from the
organizations of which it was presumably concerned. But now it appears
that at least one prominent ACLU attorney who frequently testifies on
behalf of the ACLU, is also frequently legal counsel on a private
basis for various cults, including the Hare Krishna group.
<p>If the ACLU were anything other than what it is, this would be
called conflict of interest. Certainly the ACLU has not undertaken any
courageous or pioneering investigation of the growing body of
allegations and complaints that the cults are depriving large numbers
of people of their most fundamental liberties. They seem to be
expending all of their energy on sending a 14-year old boy back to the
Soviet
Union.
<p>And last, (since I 'm getting myself in deeper and deeper trouble
this morning,) are
the established religions. Perhaps these are the strangest bedfellows
of all. It is interesting to note that the first major effort by the
churches of California with regard to legislation relevant to cults.
In the months following the massacre in Guyana, was not anything to do
with preventing another such disaster, but rather to decrease the
authority of law enforcement to investigate if Jim Jones was a fugere.
<p>Many respectable religious organizations took great pains to press
the Petris bill through to the final passage by the legislature, even
bringing a legal expert from Harvard and an executive of the National
Council of Churches to testify for it. What was the result of the
passage of that bill? Well, here's one example. When machine guns were
found in the possession of Hare Krishna members, the Petris Bill made
it impossible for investigators to check the Krishna records to see if
the guns were purchased with money collected at the airport. In fact
there is some who say that if the Petris Bill had been law, before the
Peoples Temple had moved to South America, Jonestown might have
happened in Mendocino County.
<p>Senator Robert Goldfeld hearings on cults in Washington three years
ago, following the Jonestown massacre. Representatives from the
National Council of Churches, the Baptist community, the Episcopal
church, the United Church of Christ, the ACLU, and the Unification
church all spoke for the freedom of cults that seemed to those of us
who followed the hearings. The freedom of cults will do almost
anything in the name of religious activity. And there were few
descending voices. I think one, lonesome rabbi. I don't know he got in
there. Three hundred experts in church state relations, men in
Washington to call for less government in religion, oriented along the
same line. It was ironic that this occurred at the same time that the
moral majority was trying to put more religion in government. Last
year the Church of Christian Liberty, an academy which is based in
Illinois placed a full page ad in the Los Angeles Times, asserting
that the IRS attempt to get information about that churches finances,
quote, "means the end of religious freedom in this country." End
quote. And I'm afraid that that's a very important part of this united
front which includes so many bedfellows. Money.
<p>A few religious groups have acknowledged the nefarious nature of
cults. The New York Council of Churches denied the Unification church
admission to its group. Certain Jewish agencies have tried to promote
public education about cults. But on the whole, the respectable
established religions have made common cause of cults in relation to
the major issues of public concern.
<p>To the outside observer it appears that on the whole, churches have
been singularly pusillanimous in relationship with this whole issue,
and have been more likely to put their head in the sand than to tackle
these issues head on. Issues that other people have described as a
perversion of the meaning of religion. To me, one distinction between
a genuine religion and a cult, is that religions generally functions
for the good of the members in society. The cults generally function
for the good of their
leaders, and their power, elite.
<p>In closing, I'd just like to say that it seems to me that in the
struggle that's going on between the cult and the critics. The cults
and their apologists have managed to generate a picture of the
conflict, something along the line of David and Goliath. The cults are
portrayed as idealistic, new religions, striving in a creative and
timely way to explore the road to nirvana, or good health, providing
truth or personal salvation, or even just righteous living. Their
critics are pictured as belonging to an enormous, shadowy conspiracy
of the government, including the FBI and
the CIA. The professional establishment, including the AMA and the
American Psychiatric Association,and a powerful anti-religious network
suggested by some to have communist backing. A network that employs
goons, called deprogrammers to tear the new religionists away from
their path of righteousness and through brutal brainwashing, to force
them to return to something called the mainstream.
<p>My own impression developed over a long period of time is quite the
opposite. The cult and cult-like ventures are wealthy and powerful,
quick to take the offensive against any critic. Shrewd in the use of
public relations and political lobbying techniques. And generally
enjoying the support of many aspects of the establishment such as the
courts, law enforcement agencies, conventional church groups, civil
rights organizations, and others that are not mentioned. This is quite
astonishing considering some of the improprieties or illegalities that
have been exposed these past few years. But the critics and opponents
of the cult on the other hand, as far as I've been able to see, appear
to be rather weak, poorly organized and generally at least so far,
generally at least so far, quite ineffectual. The families of those
lost to cults have not yet developed a very effective system of mutual
help.
<p>The government has been of virtually no help at all. The Citizens
Freedom Foundation is tiny and impecunious compared with even the
smallest and poorest of cults. Financial politician most concerned
about cults Congressman Leo Ryan, was murdered for his pain. The Dole
hearings were a reasonable beginning but never lead anywhere.
Other politicians have tried to oppose the cult usually at the
municipal level, have been viciously attacked. It is far easier to
identify a number of important political figures who have been helpful
to the cult, than those helpful to the family.
<p>Who else is there in opposition? What is this enormous monolithic
opposition? A handful of freelance deprogrammers, employed as a last
result by desperate families, as a last resort, by desperate families,
and many of them not too savory. A few reentry counselors to help
refugees from cults. These are mostly former cult members themselves,
operating on a shoestring, badly damaged by the overpowering
counterattacks by the cult. And a few, very few social and behavioral
scientists and other academics whose voices have hardly been heard
above the chorus of protests from all sides against their views. So
far, looking at the cults versus their critics, it has been, no
contest.
If the Ferengi were to breed with the Borg you'd get Scientology
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/comedy.html
The internet is the Liberty Tree of the 90's
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/libertyl.html
Ex-Scientologist staff member
apoligizes to John Travolta, Mayor Gabe Cazares
and the Citizens of Clearwater
http://www.lermanet.com/garyweber/
Help getting someone OUT of Scientology
http://www.lermanet.com/scientologyhelp/main.html
Diane Richardson
>The tagteam of Richardson/Greenberg continue to behave like Faxhor &
>Schwartz. Make ARS unpleasant, unreliable, and unreadable.
Awwww, you're just angry because I revealed that you and Tigger
share your fantasies with each other!
>Neither have anything to say re: Dr. Jolly West. Ziltch! Both in the
>words of LRH practice this instead.... "Never discuss _Scientology_ with
>the critic. Just discuss his or her crimes, known or unknown. And act
>confident that those crimes exist." ~ From Feisty's recent ARS post.
Still forced to quote your leader ElRon, I see. How many years has it
been since you claim you quit the CoS? Why is it that you're still
allowing Hubbard to define reality for you?
>DIANE-ETICS, The Modern Science of Mental ________________(fill in the
>blank.)
Tigger and Padgett's shared fantasy! Is that sweet or what?
Diane Richardson
Pts 2
Yet another concise example of how DIANE-ETICS works to detract away
from the real abuses of the cult this NG is about.
FACTS:
Tigger and I have VAST differences of opinions and feelings re: other
activists like Arnie, Mark, Tory, etc.
Tigger and I are 180 degrees opposite on our views on the actual value
of Henri's and Cerridwen's contibutions on the net.
Tigger is not an ex-scieno. I am after leaving in fall of 1987.
Tigger is not a POD!
Tigger posts actual news and info highly critical of $cn. You don't!
Ever! You only ATTACK critics and activists.....starting with Paulette
Cooper.
Shame, shame, shame....
Tom
--------------------------
www.FairGamed.org
"I don't know what a cult is!" ~ Charles W. Boteler, Jr.
Ball of Fluff
"Pts 2" <pt...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:3534-41C...@storefull-3332.bay.webtv.net...
> This thread title is absolutely from weirdsville.
Oh, and your Diane-etics bullshit isn't? And your thread about Michael
Greenberg and your endless yattering on about some two year old comment?
Sheesh.
C
Tigger Tigger
This is another of Diane Richardson's dirty tactics.......Mocking up new
threads to spread lies and disinformation to attack people who do not
agree with her or who refuse to bow down anb kiss her ass. A Barbara
Schwarz wanna be?
Do a Diane Richardson google search and you will see this has been her
main.... most often....only "service" to a.r.s. for several years.
Tigger
Tigger Tigger
This is another of Diane Richardson's dirty tactics.......Mocking up new
threads to spread lies and disinformation to attack people who do not
agree with her or who refuse to bow down and kiss her ass. A Barbara
Diane Richardson
Tigger) wrote:
>For Newbies:
>
>This is another of Diane Richardson's dirty tactics.......Mocking up new
>threads to spread lies and disinformation to attack people who do not
>agree with her or who refuse to bow down anb kiss her ass.
There's no disinformaton at all in this post. You have publicly
stated that "Diane-etics" was your imaginary fabrication. I'm not
quite sure why you invented the term, except as some odd attempt
at smearing me. Whatever your reason - perhaps you thought such
a swipe at me was witty or something - your friend has taken your
fantasy and now uses the term as if it's reality. It isn't. It's a
shared fantasy, concocted by you and now used incessantly by Padgett.
> A Barbara
>Schwarz wanna be?
People who refer to fantasized "enemies" as if they are an actual
group are delusional. Your friend Padgett is delusional. You admit
you assisted him in creating the delusion. Whether that makes you
and Padgett "Barbara Schwarz wannabes" or not is a matter of
personal opinion.
>Do a Diane Richardson google search and you will see this has been her
>main.... most often....only "service" to a.r.s. for several years.
Do a Tigger, TiggerTigger, SJWilson, etc. search (unfortunately, the
woman has used numerous nicks here) on google and you will see
Tigger screeches at anyone she takes a dislike to.
Try googling for Tigger and Minton.
Try googling for Tigger and Mark Bunker.
Try googling for Tigger and ... just about anyone who has ever posted
to this newsgroup. You'll get the picture pretty rapidly.
Diane Richardson
Diane Richardson
>This thread title is absolutely from weirdsville.
Your tiresome babbling about your fantisized "Diane-etics" and "PODs"
is absolutely "from weirdsville," Padgett.
If you're going to insist on posting your shared delusions to this
newsgroup, you must be prepared for comments on who and why
you choose to share fantasies.
If you don't like it, stop posting your fantasies here.
Diane Richardson
Diane Richardson
I've replied to your post in another thread, Tigger, so I won't reply
to it here.
I know you adopted the underhanded tactic of posting under multiple
nicks here (and formerly on OCMB), but I didn't realize until now that
you've stolen a page from the Lerma book and you're now spamming
your replies to several threads at once, too. Oh well.
Diane Richardson
Wanlorn
Thank you Tigger for that suggestion...
I did just that - Did a Google Search for "Diane Richardson" and
because of this suggestion found one of the *BEST* sites on
Scientology and its critics here in ARS I would suggest that all
newbies andlurkers look it up, you can either do the same search and
choose the second hit or just click here:
http://bernie.cncfamily.com/ars.htm to go to the home page or here:
http://bernie.cncfamily.com/sc/Diane_Richardson.htm to go to the page
on Diane Richardson... I would like to quote from that page...
> Diane Richardson is a key poster in ARS. In 1995, when she started to post, she was venerated by critics for the quality of her posts - brilliantly argued and researched. Today, in 2001, Diane still posts and the quality of her posts are still outstanding. However, because she changed the *focus* of her criticism, from the CoS to critics, she is now virulently attacked by critics who claim she "changed". Fact is, she didn't change at all. Critics simply make their judgment by whether one is on their side or not. This is what bigotry is all about.
I found that information very enlightening...
also with regards to everybody accusing new people of being OSA, there
is a link here: http://bernie.cncfamily.com/sc/kevin.htm on this link
the site owner has some tips for all the "Critics":
> 1. If there's any possibility that a question or gripe is voiced by an outsider who legitimately wants a response, respond politely and address the specific question or gripe.
> 2. If it's proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the questioner is an OSA operative who kills pets for fun and is trying to cause trouble with their posting, respond politely and address the specifics of the question or gripe. Optionally, add a factual statement of the evidence against them and a link to more details.
> 3. When ranting, do not crosspost.
> 4. Speak to others as if you have already been identified as a member of a group of looney tune flamers who make spurious accusations and take steps to ensure that your credibility depends on objective and verifiable sources rather than your say so. (This is good advice even if one is not viewed as having suspect credibility because over reliance on one's word rather than objective and verifiable sources is a bad habit and weakens one's argument.)
> 5. Don't accuse anyone of working for OSA unless you have evidence from off the net. Scientologists[tm] in good standing are the people most in need of information from ars and are also the most likely to appear as if OSA operatives designated to cause trouble.
> 6. If you can't *prove* an accusation is true, don't make one.
I also found this following quote to be quite informative:
> Scientology[tm] was gifted with a genuine BigWin[tm] when the crew on ars stopped being known as rational, responsible advocates for freedom of speech and became known as rabid hairtrigger flamers collectively referred to as "anti's.
So if you are a curious Scientologist, a Critic or like me and just
curious - I would recommend Checking out this site
(http://bernie.cncfamily.com/ars.htm) I am finding it very...
vindicating...
Wanlorn
~ Not a Scientologist, but proud to live in a world that accepts them
for all the good that they do.~
Zinj
dot-ca.no-spam.invalid says...
<snip>
> >Do a Diane Richardson google search and you will see this has been her
> >main.... most often....only "service" to a.r.s. for several years.
> >
> >Tigger
>
> Thank you Tigger for that suggestion...
>
> I did just that - Did a Google Search for "Diane Richardson" and
> because of this suggestion found one of the *BEST* sites on
> Scientology and its critics here in ARS I would suggest that all
> newbies andlurkers look it up, you can either do the same search and
> choose the second hit or just click here:
> http://bernie.cncfamily.com/ars.htm to go to the home page or here:
> http://bernie.cncfamily.com/sc/Diane_Richardson.htm to go to the page
> on Diane Richardson... I would like to quote from that page...
Psst... Wanlorn.. you seem to have forgotten that you found Bernie's
site *ages* ago; not as a result of following Tigger's suggestion.
But then, telling the 'truth' has never been your forte has it?
Zinj
--
You can lead a Clam to Reason, but you Can't Make him Think
Wanlorn
Psst... Zinj - I may have found a single page on it, but I have not
experienced the site until now...
I always tell the truth, regardless of your false accusations and
insinuations...
Zinj
dot-ca.no-spam.invalid says...
<snip>
> Psst... Zinj - I may have found a single page on it, but I have not
> experienced the site until now...
>
> I always tell the truth, regardless of your false accusations and
> insinuations...
>
> Wanlorn
Oh My God! This is almost as confusing as those cards that say 'The
statement on the other side is always true!' and the other side says
'The statement on the other side is always false!'
It makes my poor little woggy head all aspinny, and I feel like rolling
over and admitting that you are indeed Homo Novus!
berbew
>
>This thread title is absolutely from weirdsville.
>Yet another concise example of how DIANE-ETICS works to detract away
>from the real abuses of the cult this NG is about.
>
>FACTS:
>
>Tigger and I have VAST differences of opinions and feelings re: other
>activists like Arnie, Mark, Tory, etc.
>
>Tigger and I are 180 degrees opposite on our views on the actual value
>of Henri's and Cerridwen's contibutions on the net.
>
>Tigger is not an ex-scieno. I am after leaving in fall of 1987.
>
>Tigger is not a POD!
>
>Tigger posts actual news and info highly critical of $cn. You don't!
>Ever! You only ATTACK critics and activists.....starting with Paulette
>Cooper.
That's what Diane does best.
The Initials
"berbew" <ber...@exe.net> wrote in message
news:113508138.0...@drn.newsguy.com...
Hey berbew:
Diane Richardson has been posting to A.R.S. since 1995.
She probably knows all about the OT Levels.
Tigger Tigger
known as the Church of Scientology, Narconon, etc.
I am here to help expose the Church of Scientology. I am not here to
wallow in the mud with Diane Richardson. I have more important things
to do.
However, whenever Richardson mocks up a thread with my name in the title
or makes some false allegation about me, this will be posted on each and
every one of those BS threads.
For Newbies:
This is another of Diane Richardson's dirty tactics.......Mocking up new
threads to spread lies and disinformation to attack people who do not
agree with her or who refuse to bow down and kiss her ass. A
Barbara Schwarz wanna be?
Do a Diane Richardson google search and you will see this has been her
MAIN.... most often....ONLY "service" to a.r.s. for several years.
Tigger
Fax...@hotmail.com
>>Psst... Wanlorn.. you seem to have forgotten that you found Bernie's
>>site *ages* ago; not as a result of following Tigger's suggestion.
>>
>>But then, telling the 'truth' has never been your forte has it?
>>
>>Zinj
>
>Psst... Zinj - I may have found a single page on it, but I have not
>experienced the site until now...
>
>I always tell the truth, regardless of your false accusations and
>insinuations...
>
>Wanlorn
>~ Not a Scientologist, but proud to live in a world that accepts them
>for all the good that they do.~
Psst... Wanlorn - if you always tell the truth, what are you waiting for to
tell the truth about this?
=====================================================
Re: Faxhor postings from 8/29/2004
On Sun, 19 Dec 2004, Wanlorn <wan...@shaw-dot-ca.no-spam.invalid> wrote:
>Well considering that the Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header is
>using black PR and is opposed to the CoS - they must be a critic...
What black PR?
>Interesting that the critics use the tactics that they accuse the
>church of....
What tactics?
Faxhor
=-=-=
Read L Ron Hubbard's Affirmations, one of the earliest examples of
Scientology OT solo auditing.
http://www.b-org.demon.nl/scn/nl/english/admissions-hubbard.html
or
http://www.lermanet2.com/reference/Admissions.pdf
=====================================================
Diane Richardson
Tigger) wrote:
>Diane Richardson's Bullshit distracts from the exposure of the con,
>known as the Church of Scientology, Narconon, etc.
>I am here to help expose the Church of Scientology.
Then why do you spend so much time attacking critics?
>I am not here to
>wallow in the mud with Diane Richardson. I have more important things
>to do.
Then why don't you do them.
>However, whenever Richardson mocks up a thread with my name in the title
>or makes some false allegation about me, this will be posted on each and
>every one of those BS threads.
Ah! So here we go - Tigger has anointed herself the NEW Arnie Lerma.
>For Newbies:
>
>This is another of Diane Richardson's dirty tactics.......Mocking up new
>threads to spread lies and disinformation to attack people who do not
>agree with her or who refuse to bow down and kiss her ass. =A0 =A0 A
>Barbara Schwarz wanna be?
>
>Do a Diane Richardson google search and you will see this has been her
>MAIN.... most often....ONLY "service" to a.r.s. for several years.
How many other fantasies have you "shared" with Padgett?
Diane Ricahrdson
arnie lerma
Diane Richardson
Tigger, Padgett and Lerma locked into a folie a trois that none
of them really understands.
Diane Richardson
Wanlorn
>On Sun, 19 Dec 2004, Wanlorn <wan...@shaw-dot-ca.no-spam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>Psst... Wanlorn.. you seem to have forgotten that you found Bernie's
>>>site *ages* ago; not as a result of following Tigger's suggestion.
>>>
>>>But then, telling the 'truth' has never been your forte has it?
>>>
>>>Zinj
>>
>>Psst... Zinj - I may have found a single page on it, but I have not
>>experienced the site until now...
>>
>>I always tell the truth, regardless of your false accusations and
>>insinuations...
>>
>>Wanlorn
>>~ Not a Scientologist, but proud to live in a world that accepts them
>>for all the good that they do.~
>
>Psst... Wanlorn - if you always tell the truth, what are you waiting for to
>tell the truth about this?
I already did Fake Faxhor, I already did...
<snip>
Faxhor
>On 20 Dec 2004 05:51:04 -0000, Fax...@Hotmail.com wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 19 Dec 2004, Wanlorn <wan...@shaw-dot-ca.no-spam.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>>Psst... Wanlorn.. you seem to have forgotten that you found Bernie's
>>>>site *ages* ago; not as a result of following Tigger's suggestion.
>>>>
>>>>But then, telling the 'truth' has never been your forte has it?
>>>>
>>>>Zinj
>>>
>>>Psst... Zinj - I may have found a single page on it, but I have not
>>>experienced the site until now...
>>>
>>>I always tell the truth, regardless of your false accusations and
>>>insinuations...
>>>
>>>Wanlorn
>>>~ Not a Scientologist, but proud to live in a world that accepts them
>>>for all the good that they do.~
>>
>>Psst... Wanlorn - if you always tell the truth, what are you waiting for to
>>tell the truth about this?
><snip>
<unsnip>
>=====================================================
>Re: Faxhor postings from 8/29/2004
>
>On Sun, 19 Dec 2004, Wanlorn <wan...@shaw-dot-ca.no-spam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Well considering that the Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header is
>>using black PR and is opposed to the CoS - they must be a critic...
>
>What black PR?
>
>>Interesting that the critics use the tactics that they accuse the
>>church of....
>
>What tactics?
>
>Faxhor
>=====================================================
>I already did Fake Faxhor, I already did...
LOL lame Wanlorn, LOL...
>Wanlorn
>~ Not a Scientologist, but proud to live in a world that accepts them
>for all the good that they do.~
Cerridwen
No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.
--------------------------------------------------------
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, ref...@bway.net (Diane Richardson) wrote:
>See what I mean?
>
>Tigger, Padgett and Lerma locked into a folie a trois that none
>of them really understands.
LOL!
Cerridwen
http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/
>
pt...@webtv.net
Diane Richardson wrote:
> See what I mean?
Mean? I doubt anybody here knows what you mean. Except Bernie perhaps!
But I suspect most here know that you ARE "mean!"
>
> Tigger, Padgett and Lerma locked into a folie a trois that none
> of them really understands.
>
We understand that $cn is a dangerous cult, and that Feisty's reposts
of the expert wisdom of Dr. West is
essential in "understanding" this and that $cn is not some benign
[religion] that YOU, Faxhor, Schwartz, Spacetraveler, Greenberg, Fluffy
Ball, Boteler, etc. try to spin it as.
So YES we "really undertsand!" The Q here is ... do you?
Tom
--------------------
www.fairgamed.org
pt...@webtv.net
pt...@webtv.net
Cerridwen wrote:
> NOTE: This message was sent thru a mail2news gateway.
> No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, ref...@bway.net (Diane Richardson) wrote:
> >See what I mean?
> >
> >Tigger, Padgett and Lerma locked into a folie a trois that none
> >of them really understands.
>
>
> LOL!
In that LOL = lot's of laughs, exactly what laughs and funnybone
strikings send you into a chuckle mode re: $cn?
>
>
> Cerridwen
>
It is good though you dropped the "OSA Goon" sig. Some folks didn't
really get the "LOLs" (humor) with that silly distraction.
> http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/
>
>
> >
Tom
-----------------
www.fairgamed.org
pt...@webtv.net
Cerridwen wrote:
> NOTE: This message was sent thru a mail2news gateway.
> No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, ref...@bway.net (Diane Richardson) wrote:
> >See what I mean?
> >
> >Tigger, Padgett and Lerma locked into a folie a trois that none
> >of them really understands.
>
>
> LOL!
In that LOL = lot's of laughs, exactly what laughs and funnybone
pt...@webtv.net
pt...@webtv.net
Cerridwen wrote:
> NOTE: This message was sent thru a mail2news gateway.
> No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, ref...@bway.net (Diane Richardson) wrote:
> >See what I mean?
> >
> >Tigger, Padgett and Lerma locked into a folie a trois that none
> >of them really understands.
>
>
> LOL!
In that LOL = lot's of laughs, exactly what laughs and funnybone