My Last Post to ARS

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Stephen Von Hatten

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May 7, 2007, 10:54:29 PM5/7/07
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Something I got in the mail. I believe I will be on the wrong side if
I join "any" side, but here's what it reads:

BLAH! I must be OSA for posting this... oh no! }:-)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scientology Mission of Salt Lake
353 East 400 South
Salt Lake City, Utah 84111
801-532-8008
April 28, 2007

What Is Scientology?

Hello.

It is much easier to say what Scientology isn't than what it is. It
isn't anything like psychology, psychiatry, or any other mental
practice. It isn't like any other religion or like any Eastern
practices. It isn't like anything you would ever study in a philosophy
class. And it most definitely isn't like anything you would read about
in the National Slanderer.

When people encounter something new, they like to know what it is
similar to, in order to get at least a rough idea of what it is all
about. But nothing comparable to Scientology has ever existed before,
so no comparison would be valid.

Probably the best way to begin to understand a subject that embraces
every aspect of life is to realize that it is basically a way of self
improvement. People who look into Scientology normally have some
condition or situation in life that they would like to improve in some
way. Maybe they have communication problems or study difficulties,
marital problems or difficulty in relating to other people. Many
people find that life is a constant series of ups and downs. Whatever
the person's problem is, Scientology can help him with it.

Once they have taken a life improvement course and handled what is
ruining their life they realize that it is possible for them to become
even more able, and eventually it becomes real to them that there is
no limit to how able they can become. When that happens, they have
become a Scientologist.

And that's what Scientology is all about.

Sincerely,

(Name Withheld), Field Staff Member

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Call me OSA if you'd like, but this will be my final post to this
newsgroup, so I've either lived out my service as an OSA bot or I'm a
real person. You decide. Not like I care too much anymore.

Anyway, I'm leaving because it has occured to me that the anti-
Scientology movement has become quite cultic in it's reasoning...
always assuming the worst of it, etc. You folks tend to be extreme in
your views and have a disturbing "us versus them" mentality.

Generally (and this is personal belief), but the people I've met in
Scientology are terrific and wonderful people. I can't see myself
turning against them.

Every religion has fought for its right to practice their religion.
Doesn't mean that what I've seen of the CoS is justified (the things
they also do justifies the church as a cult), but I can understand
where they are coming from a little bit more (whereas a few months ago
I didn't or didn't even know). Of course, the only thing I still don't
understand is the death of Lisa McPherson, and that should seriously
be considered for any member of the Church of Scientology.

http://images.google.com/images?q=Lisa%20McPherson&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi

Was it just a mismanaged thing? What about Heber Jentzsch who was
arrested for fraud?

http://www.lermanet.com/cos/heber.jpg

Just remember, it's not the source that matters. It's the information,
and whether it is observably true. Obviously people saying that
Scientology sources are run by OSA may be true and caution should be
used. However, if what they are saying is observable then it might
just BE true. That is what has recently occured with my thoughts and
readings. When I posted a website, I received nothing but ad-hominem
attacks against the website dismissing the website as OSA run. WHO
CARES!!! If I can observe it, then there's no point in personal
attacks. What... are you guys trying to be RFW now? WTF! What's your
dealio?

http://bernie.cncfamily.com/sc/posneg_Anti-Cult_Movement.htm

So that's pretty much all I have to say.

Enjoy your squabbles and have a wonderful week!

-Stephen Von Hatten (ex-Scientologist, ex-critic)
http://shuttingthedoor.zoomshare.com/

rockyslammer

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May 8, 2007, 12:57:32 AM5/8/07
to
On May 8, 2:54 pm, Stephen Von Hatten <stephen.vonhat...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Something I got in the mail. I believe I will be on the wrong side if
> I join "any" side, but here's what it reads:
>
> BLAH! I must be OSA for posting this... oh no! }:-)
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-----------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-----------------------

>
> Call me OSA if you'd like, but this will be my final post to this
> newsgroup, so I've either lived out my service as an OSA bot or I'm a
> real person. You decide. Not like I care too much anymore.
>
> Anyway, I'm leaving because it has occured to me that the anti-
> Scientology movement has become quite cultic in it's reasoning...
> always assuming the worst of it, etc. You folks tend to be extreme in
> your views and have a disturbing "us versus them" mentality.
>
> Generally (and this is personal belief), but the people I've met in
> Scientology are terrific and wonderful people. I can't see myself
> turning against them.
>
> Every religion has fought for its right to practice their religion.
> Doesn't mean that what I've seen of the CoS is justified (the things
> they also do justifies the church as a cult), but I can understand
> where they are coming from a little bit more (whereas a few months ago
> I didn't or didn't even know). Of course, the only thing I still don't
> understand is the death of Lisa McPherson, and that should seriously
> be considered for any member of the Church of Scientology.
>
> http://images.google.com/images?q=Lisa%20McPherson&sourceid=ie7&rls=c...

>
> Was it just a mismanaged thing? What about Heber Jentzsch who was
> arrested for fraud?
>
> http://www.lermanet.com/cos/heber.jpg
>
> Just remember, it's not the source that matters. It's the information,
> and whether it is observably true. Obviously people saying that
> Scientology sources are run by OSA may be true and caution should be
> used. However, if what they are saying is observable then it might
> just BE true. That is what has recently occured with my thoughts and
> readings. When I posted a website, I received nothing but ad-hominem
> attacks against the website dismissing the website as OSA run. WHO
> CARES!!! If I can observe it, then there's no point in personal
> attacks. What... are you guys trying to be RFW now? WTF! What's your
> dealio?
>
> http://bernie.cncfamily.com/sc/posneg_Anti-Cult_Movement.htm
>
> So that's pretty much all I have to say.
>
> Enjoy your squabbles and have a wonderful week!
>
> -Stephen Von Hatten (ex-Scientologist, ex-critic)http://shuttingthedoor.zoomshare.com/

Well Stephen i I joined scientology in 1965 and stayed for 35 years.
Indeed many many scientologists are truly good people. It would be a
lie to say otherwise.

True many things within scientology are not bad. But then many things
are not good either.

If you look at what scientology actually does as a whole it doesn't
add up to what it says it does. It sells a dream that it cannot and
does not fulfill. I truly wish it were different.

I would mix with scientologist (some anyway) right now because I had
many friends there. However they are NOT allowed to be with me.
Why? Because I don't agree with many things about scientology. And
it isn't because I didn't look. Goodness - 35 years of looking should
be enough. So I left. Then my "friends" were forced to disconnect.

You have every right to follow your own path and good luck to you.

Yes there are those in the newsgroup who are a tad extreme. But
that's their path and they have a right to that. It is a turbulent
newsgroup. However the worst here are those that try and persuade
mentally ill people to neglect their treatment and stop taking their
medication. This is a crime. The posters are not in the band of the
critics.

Scientology teaches you to get all the data before reaching a decision
and this is sensible. Data analysis is not a scientology discovery
however - as many such scientology principals are not.

I am 61 years old now Stephen. I have older (old) friends who are now
dead who didn't manage a thing in their life except to squander all
their wealth on unachievable goals. Others are old and infirm and sad
because they haven't "made" it.

I don't regret all of my 35 years in scientology but I do regret some
of it.

Go in peace and come back and say "hello" from time to time and let us
know how you are doing.

regards
Martin


Message has been deleted

antisectes

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May 8, 2007, 2:53:47 AM5/8/07
to
Stephen Von Hatten wrote:
>
> Every religion has fought for its right to practice their religion.

Every scam, every fraud, everything including worse criminals, attilas,
hitlers, stalins, genghis khans, have fought to practice their own ways.
Killing, destroying millions around.

That's exactly how Hubbard described himself under the traits of "SPs",
"One-ones", and other charming entities that he estimated were composing
humanity.

r


rockyslammer

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May 8, 2007, 3:02:47 AM5/8/07
to
On May 8, 5:41 pm, Duane <whoever...@diz.com> wrote:
> On 7 May 2007 21:57:32 -0700, rockyslammer
> It is an extreme pleasure to read such a kind and emphatic answer to
> Stephen, thank you for that, 'Rockyslammer'; your post is a real gem.
>
> Vaja con dios, Stephen.
>
>
>
>
>
> >regards
> >Martin- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thank you - all contributions to Kieth henson legal fund!!

regards
Martin

freeway

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May 8, 2007, 5:14:14 AM5/8/07
to
On May 8, 4:54 am, Stephen Von Hatten <stephen.vonhat...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> http://images.google.com/images?q=Lisa%20McPherson&sourceid=ie7&rls=c...

>
> Was it just a mismanaged thing? What about Heber Jentzsch who was
> arrested for fraud?
>
> http://www.lermanet.com/cos/heber.jpg
>
> Just remember, it's not the source that matters. It's the information,
> and whether it is observably true. Obviously people saying that
> Scientology sources are run by OSA may be true and caution should be
> used. However, if what they are saying is observable then it might
> just BE true. That is what has recently occured with my thoughts and
> readings. When I posted a website, I received nothing but ad-hominem
> attacks against the website dismissing the website as OSA run. WHO
> CARES!!! If I can observe it, then there's no point in personal
> attacks. What... are you guys trying to be RFW now? WTF! What's your
> dealio?
>
> http://bernie.cncfamily.com/sc/posneg_Anti-Cult_Movement.htm
>
> So that's pretty much all I have to say.
>
> Enjoy your squabbles and have a wonderful week!
>
> -Stephen Von Hatten (ex-Scientologist, ex-critic)http://shuttingthedoor.zoomshare.com/


Excellent post, Stephen!
Thank you for enlightening others in a very sensitive way. I loved
your website.
Have a great future and stop by every once in a while.
Freeway

Rev. Norle Enturbulata, OD

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May 8, 2007, 5:33:25 AM5/8/07
to

"freeway" <free...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1178615654....@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...

Alas, Scientology's delusions persist in order to convince its unfortunate
dupes that "there is always something good in it", while somehow preventing
them from finding whatever the hell it was. Mr Von Hatten would appear to
still be operating on Scientology programming, unfortunately - and still
believes the tripe that apologist-cult members like "Bernie" posts on his
alleged web site.

Good luck figuring your life out - and when you come back, we'll still be
here, whereas Scientology is just dwindling and frothing away.

--
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2535187,00.html
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/9363363/inside_scientology
http://PerkinsTragedy.org
http://xenu.com-it.net/txt/ildikoe.htm
http://theunfunnytruth.ytmnd.com/
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.com
http://www.scientology-lies.com
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
http://www.scientology-kills.org

Rev. Norle Enturbulata
"Church" of Cartoonism
*
* " You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way
you can control anybody is to lie to them."
* -- L. Ron Hubbard, "Technique 88"
*
* "...Never discuss Scientology with the critic. Just discuss his or her
crimes, known and unknown. And act completely confident that those crimes
exist...."
* L. Ron Hubbard, "Critics of Scientology", November 5, 1967
*
* "All men shall be my slaves! All women shall succumb to my charms! All
mankind shall grovel at my feet and not know why!"
- L. Ron Hubbard, "Personal Affirmations"


Hartley Patterson

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May 8, 2007, 6:05:08 AM5/8/07
to
stephen....@gmail.com:

> When I posted a website, I received nothing but ad-hominem
> attacks against the website dismissing the website as OSA run. WHO
> CARES!!! If I can observe it, then there's no point in personal
> attacks. What... are you guys trying to be RFW now? WTF! What's your
> dealio?
>
> http://bernie.cncfamily.com/sc/posneg_Anti-Cult_Movement.htm

Did you miss the reply from myself? And one from Jens I think it was? I
think you should confirm that you did, because otherwise we're going to
assume you are lying.

--
Hartley Patterson
www.newsfrombree.co.uk

jerald

unread,
May 8, 2007, 7:36:07 AM5/8/07
to
On May 7, 9:54 pm, Stephen Von Hatten <stephen.vonhat...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Something I got in the mail. I believe I will be on the wrong side if
> I join "any" side, but here's what it reads:
>
> BLAH! I must be OSA for posting this... oh no! }:-)
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-----------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-----------------------

>
> Call me OSA if you'd like, but this will be my final post to this
> newsgroup, so I've either lived out my service as an OSA bot or I'm a
> real person. You decide. Not like I care too much anymore.
>
> Anyway, I'm leaving because it has occured to me that the anti-
> Scientology movement has become quite cultic in it's reasoning...
> always assuming the worst of it, etc. You folks tend to be extreme in
> your views and have a disturbing "us versus them" mentality.
>
> Generally (and this is personal belief), but the people I've met in
> Scientology are terrific and wonderful people. I can't see myself
> turning against them.
>
> Every religion has fought for its right to practice their religion.
> Doesn't mean that what I've seen of the CoS is justified (the things
> they also do justifies the church as a cult), but I can understand
> where they are coming from a little bit more (whereas a few months ago
> I didn't or didn't even know). Of course, the only thing I still don't
> understand is the death of Lisa McPherson, and that should seriously
> be considered for any member of the Church of Scientology.
>
> http://images.google.com/images?q=Lisa%20McPherson&sourceid=ie7&rls=c...

>
> Was it just a mismanaged thing? What about Heber Jentzsch who was
> arrested for fraud?
>
> http://www.lermanet.com/cos/heber.jpg
>
> Just remember, it's not the source that matters. It's the information,
> and whether it is observably true. Obviously people saying that
> Scientology sources are run by OSA may be true and caution should be
> used. However, if what they are saying is observable then it might
> just BE true. That is what has recently occured with my thoughts and
> readings. When I posted a website, I received nothing but ad-hominem
> attacks against the website dismissing the website as OSA run. WHO
> CARES!!! If I can observe it, then there's no point in personal
> attacks. What... are you guys trying to be RFW now? WTF! What's your
> dealio?
>
> http://bernie.cncfamily.com/sc/posneg_Anti-Cult_Movement.htm
>
> So that's pretty much all I have to say.
>
> Enjoy your squabbles and have a wonderful week!
>
> -Stephen Von Hatten (ex-Scientologist, ex-critic)http://shuttingthedoor.zoomshare.com/

Stephen,

As you leave take a thought or two with you. Yes we have squabbles,
you don't see that so much in scientology because free thought if
frowned apon. And remember most critics are against the action's of
scientology, not the faith. It is us against them for the most
part. Hard not to be when scientology uses a tone scale to decide who
should have human rights and who shouldn't.

I wish you peace.

jerald

realpch

unread,
May 8, 2007, 8:53:08 AM5/8/07
to

Or, uh, goofing off.

Peach
--
Extra! Extra! Read All About It!
Save some dough, save some grief:
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.scientology-lies.com

Magoo

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May 8, 2007, 10:03:56 AM5/8/07
to

"jerald" <jerald...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1178624167.2...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

Stephen,

Actually---in truth---you could be THE highest tone level of all,
"Aesthetics" or up in "Enthusiasm" or "Action"---all considered high toned
in Scientology, but even these people have their human rights stopped by the
sleaze bag organization called the church<gack!>of $cientology.

Some of their top people are not allowed to talk to people/friends/family
Scientology has labeled "SP" (suppressive person, someone who can now think
for themselves and talk about it), read the Net, read books they're afraid
they'd learn the truth if they read. It's utterly sick, when you think about
it. They'll insist that's not true---if it isn't, why can't they talk?

I wish you peace.

Good luck ~~

My best,

Tory/Magoo~~

jerald


JAFAW

unread,
May 8, 2007, 1:10:07 PM5/8/07
to
Scientology (the "church" of) needs you more than you need it.

There is always the "Freezone" I guess. That way you can still wind up just
as spiritually retarded but perhaps with less damage to your bank account
and family.

Fact is though, most people who blow from scientology just simply walk out
the door. They don't come to ARS to find other answers. They just go and
pick up their life. For some it is relatively easy and for others it is
hard, especially if they do have genuine personal problems and have family
and long time friends that are still in the cult.
In the grand scheme of things, you have precious little time on this planet
and your life has hardly even got into full swing so don't go wasting it.
Sit down and watch/listen to the media on www.xenutv.com and be happy that
you are not, in any way, helping to perpetuate the treadmill of abuse and
lies that have phsyically and mentally harmed so many people over the years
under the guise of "religion".

Peace and Goodwill
JAFAW


"Stephen Von Hatten" <stephen....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1178592869.1...@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

Tigger

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May 8, 2007, 6:58:56 PM5/8/07
to

Hi,

Before you throw in the towel as a critic, why don't you try
http://www.forum.exscn.net?

Best Wishes,

Tigger

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