Arnie Lerma Withdrawing from the Fray
Lermanet.com
My first postings about scientology were in the spring of 1993 so it
has been 14 years of battle to bring scientology's true nature into
the public eye.
I would like to thank all the people who have inspired, helped out,
provided insight or support or provided a laugh over the years.
Including but not limited to the following names and Usenet nicknames,
and chat board names: Alert, Anabaptist Jacques, Andreas Heldal-Lund,
Ariane Jackson, Android Cat, Antique Hoax, banchukita, Barbara Graham,
BatChild, Bent Corydon, Betti Gefecht, Bird, Bonnie Woods, Brigitta
Dagnell, Bob "da Sloth" Bingham, Bob Penny, Caroline Letkeman,
catarina, Chip Gallo, Chuck Beatty, Chris Lethiser, Chris Owen, Claus
Wunderlich, Curtis Anderson,Cyril Vosper, Dan Garvin. Dave Bird, Dave
Touretsky, David Gerard, David Mayo, Dennis Erlich, Det. Dennis
Marlock, Det. Seargant Tom Miller, Det Seargant Ray Emmons, Dick
Cleek, Dilbert Perkins, Dr. Donna Shannon, Don Lindsay, Doug Johnson,
Dr. Ed Lottick, Ed Hataway, Erin-is-a-Goddess, ex-Mudder, FACTnet,,
Frank Rich, Va. Sen. John Warner, Fred Rice, Freimann, Fred Durks,
Funkmaster, Mayor Gabe Cazares, Gary Weber, George Malko, Gerry
Armstrong, Graham Berry, Greg Beha, Gregg Hagglund, Hana Eltringham,
heffer, Homer Wilson Smith, Ida Camburn, James Lippard, Jeff Filbert,
Jeff Jacobsen, Jeff Lee, Jens Tingleff, Jim Bebee, Joe Cisar, Joe
Harrington, Johan Wevers, John Dorsay, John Ritson, Dr Jolyon
"Jolly" West, Jon Atack, Karin Spaink, Keith Henson, Kim Baker, Kim
Palmer, Kristi Wachter, ladayla, Ladybird, Lagniappe, Lawrence
Wollersheim, Lars Westgarten, Lee Strope FDLE, Cong. Leo Ryan,
LTRICHA1, Maggie Council, Margaret Huffstickler, Margaret Singer, PhD,
Marion Delgado, Mark Bunker, Mark Dallara, Mark Ebner,Mark Plummer,
Marina Chong, Martin Hunt, Martini, Martin Poulter, Maureen, Michael
Gormez, Michael Pattinson, Michael Tilse, Mike O'Connor, Monica
Pignotti,Morsicle, Nan Mclean, Neail C., Wieber , Out_of_the_dark,
Pat Humphrey, Patrick Jost Ph.D.Paulette Cooper, Quaoar, Phineas Fogg,
Phil Scott, Praxis, Prignillius, Rasta Robert, Ray Randolph, Raymond
Hill, Rev Norle Enturbulata, Richard Behar, Rich Leiby, Rick Ross,
ripodb, roan, Robert Minton, Rod Keller, Roger Gonnet, Ron Newman,
Russel Miller, Shelly Thomson, Shmoodles, SchwimmelPuckel, Sponge,
Stacy Young, Steven Hassan, Steve Whitlatch, Stewart Lamont,
Stickwork, Suzette Hubbard, The LMT, Tilman, Tom Klemesrud. Tommy
Gorman, Tom Pagett, Tony Bosnakoudis, Tony McClelland, Tory Christman,
Ulf Brettstam, M.D,, Wayne Whitney, Valerie Emmanuel, Vaughn Young,
Volney Mathison, wbarwell, Yohjimboh!, Zenon Panoussis, Zorrosblade.
Xenuotter.
In Scientology Hubbard created the epitome of selfishness - everything
for the sake of scientology, and the only thing that scientology
produces is more scientologists.
Our planet provides enough for all mans' needs, but there never is
enough to satisfy greed, and we cannot afford the expensive indulgence
of creating so much nothing, as in scientology.
The only good to come out of the Scientology experience, is to use it
as a case study, a living laboratory project, to teach people, how to
determine what is true and what are mental manipulation for profit or
slavery. Scientology is both.
The experience and information learned over the last 14 years has
achieved this for me, I hope you get as much out of your efforts.
Having watched scientology's most recent performances, I no longer
consider them a worthy opponent. Due to their extraordinary ineptitude
and the vast degree of public awareness achieved in the last decade,
Scientology no longer requires my assistance to come to an end.
I hereby officially pass the baton, and withdraw from the field.
August 24th 2007
"Ten thousand lies -
won't change a single truth
about Scientology
at Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
WE COME BACK FOR OUR FRIENDS and FAMILY
to get them out while they are still alive!
Get Involved!
http://ocmb.lermanet.us/discussion/viewforum.php?f=36
http://ocmb.lermanet.us/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=381
"He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity"
Gore Vidal on meeting L Ron Hubbard
My children and family are so glad
to have me back and I'm glad you
have your site to help people like
us! - from an "OT" still in "good
standing"
banchukita
>
> "He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity"
> Gore Vidal on meeting L Ron Hubbard
>
> My children and family are so glad
> to have me back and I'm glad you
> have your site to help people like
> us! - from an "OT" still in "good
> standing"
Arnie, your presence will be missed, but I hope your body of work that
is catalogued on your website will still be available to the general
public.
Unlike some other websites that are selling on eBay, yours has
original content and value for researchers.
-maggie, human being
-maggie, human being
jerald
>
> "He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity"
> Gore Vidal on meeting L Ron Hubbard
>
> My children and family are so glad
> to have me back and I'm glad you
> have your site to help people like
> us! - from an "OT" still in "good
> standing"
Arnie,
In my short time here I have come to not only know you but I have come
to respect you as well. I wish you the best in whatever you choose
to do next in your life. Thank you for all you have done over the
last 14 years. You made a difference.
jerald
critic_o...@alumnidirector.com
> M
http://simeon.persky.vilabol.uol.com.br/
Question is with what sock puppet Arnie will continue to spread
hatred...
cultxpt
>
> "He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity"
> Gore Vidal on meeting L Ron Hubbard
>
> My children and family are so glad
> to have me back and I'm glad you
> have your site to help people like
> us! - from an "OT" still in "good
> standing"
Kind of a shock, but I wish you the best. You gave a lot of your life
to Scientology, then a lot to exposing it. You should leave some time
for the rest of the world out there too. Thanks for all you've done
and thanks to the net, it will be out there for this and future
generations.
bmul...@verizon.net
>
> "He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity"
> Gore Vidal on meeting L Ron Hubbard
>
> My children and family are so glad
> to have me back and I'm glad you
> have your site to help people like
> us! - from an "OT" still in "good
> standing"
Let me join in wishing you well in life. The first moral question
ever asked was supposed to be, Am I my brothers keeper? I think we
both belive that the answer to that is supposed to be, at least to
some degree,yes.
I did notice that in one of you recent postings you included an email
to the CoS attorney's about an offer they had made to you to end the
Armstrong/scientology war. I can only hope that something has been
worked out so you can at long last live without the constant need to
deal with lawsuits and lawyers. In any event the record is clear
about who you are and what you accomplished and the internet will
insure that none of it is forgotten.
Uncle Bruce
Kevin Brady
Do you still believe that a short duration current passed through a resistor
over a long time has the same effect as a short duration current of high
intensity?
"Lermanet.com" <Arnie...@Lermanet.COM> wrote in message
news:df5vc3dsbqn96mgqa...@4ax.com...
Gerry Armstrong
That doesn't sound right. I never heard about it. Please tell me about
it.
> I can only hope that something has been
>worked out so you can at long last live without the constant need to
>deal with lawsuits and lawyers. In any event the record is clear
>about who you are and what you accomplished and the internet will
>insure that none of it is forgotten.
>
>Uncle Bruce
>
© Gerry Armstrong
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org
Kevin Brady
Long duration low current over a resistor = Short duration high current
over a resistor?
"Kevin Brady" <gomo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:46cf...@news2.lightlink.com...
moontaco
>
> > "He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity"
> > Gore Vidal on meeting L Ron Hubbard
>
> > My children and family are so glad
> > to have me back and I'm glad you
> > have your site to help people like
> > us! - from an "OT" still in "good
> > standing"
>
> Arnie, your presence will be missed, but I hope your body of work that
> is catalogued on your website will still be available to the general
> public.
>
> Unlike some other websites that are selling on eBay, yours has
> original content and value for researchers.
>
> -maggie, human being
I'd like to echo what Maggie said here. Your website is a priceless
resource.
I'm sorry to hear this news. Thanks for all you've done.
Beth
Skipper
<critic_o...@alumnidirector.com> wrote:
Look in the mirror if you want to see dead Elwrong's sock puppet.
The Chief Instigator
>On Aug 24, 8:37 pm, Lermanet.com <ArnieLe...@Lermanet.COM> wrote:
>> M
>http://[Scienospam]
>
>Question is with what sock puppet Arnie will continue to spread
>hatred...
Ask DM the Midget. He's giving you your orders.
--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (pat...@io.com) Houston, Texas
chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2006-07 Houston Aeros) AA#2273
LAST GAME: San Antonio 4, Houston 2 (April 15)
NEXT GAME: Saturday, October 6 vs. Chicago, 7:35
navy.intern...@gmail.com
>
> "He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity"
> Gore Vidal on meeting L Ron Hubbard
>
> My children and family are so glad
> to have me back and I'm glad you
> have your site to help people like
> us! - from an "OT" still in "good
> standing"
Arnie, you were, and still are, one of the most important critics. I
can imagine you want to retire from it after 14 years. All the shit
the cult and its adepts have thrown into your direction is more than
any person could handle: You did!
We had our differences, but I still value you very much.
Thanks for everything!
Navy
murray...@gmail.com
imagine it will go something like this:
"After a hard fought battle that lasted 14 years we finally won--we
drove Arnie into oblivion!"
Arnie is right, they have become a toothless opponent. Even when they
lose, they insist they're winning. They remind me of the Black Knight
in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. All the while they're hemorhaging
out of all of their limbs, they still believe it's just a scratch.
"Have at you!"
BigBeard
"Lermanet.com" <Arnie...@Lermanet.COM> wrote in message
news:df5vc3dsbqn96mgqa...@4ax.com...
>
>
Enjoy your life Arnie!
BigBeard
Katana ko chi, SPsoo
moontaco
> I wait in anticipation for the COS news about this announcement. I
> imagine it will go something like this:
>
> "After a hard fought battle that lasted 14 years we finally won--we
> drove Arnie into oblivion!"
>
they'll say something like "another suppressive religious bigot."
zeeorger
>
> "He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity"
> Gore Vidal on meeting L Ron Hubbard
>
> My children and family are so glad
> to have me back and I'm glad you
> have your site to help people like
> us! - from an "OT" still in "good
> standing"
Thank You.
Z
Alert
not for SP's like you( and so many named and un-named in your post).
Youve sacrificed a LOT (as have many like you) and the only benefit
was educating people about the cult of scientology.
No matter who bows out, there will always be more than one to take up
the baton and run with it. Kinda reminds me of the ending of V for
Vendetta.
RVY was right about the relay race, but I guess he didnt invision,
how, for when one of those was passing on the baton, it would be
thousands that took up the next leg.
Enjoy retirement Arnie, it must feel great to know that scientology
cannot recover and manifest into Orwells 1984.
Thank YOU
roger gonnet
news:df5vc3dsbqn96mgqa...@4ax.com...
Hey Arnie, why? You can't really leave us alone!!
r
Magoo
"Lermanet.com" <Arnie...@Lermanet.COM> wrote in message
news:df5vc3dsbqn96mgqa...@4ax.com...
>
>
I totally understand where you're coming from.....you've worked VERY
hard for many years, and have helped T O N S of people "See the light".
Now it's time for you to go play, knowing, for the most part, the work
has been done.
I will always wish you well----and we'll all miss the words and thoughts
from arnie lerma. I hope you take a breather and return, but IF you must go,
take care, be well, and have fun!
Take care my friend, and may the wind be at your back---
Tory/Magoo~~:)
Jens Tingleff
Hash: SHA1
moontaco wrote:
Seconded (or is that thirded?).
Be well, and thanks for all your excellent work.
Best Regards
Jens
- --
Key ID 0x09723C12, jens...@tingleff.org
Analogue filtering / 5GHz RLAN / Mandriva Linux / odds and ends
http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/ +44 1223 829 985
"..the London Underground is *not* a political movement" 'A Fish Called
Wanda'
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Kim P
done much to be proud of.
Passing the baton is an honourable thing to do - your work and time you
have given to scientology and to exposing the con will long be remembered.
Thank you Arnie
Kim P
Larry T.
news:df5vc3dsbqn96mgqa...@4ax.com...
|
|
Arnie:
What happened?
Did you have a fight with Ida?
--
Lawrence
http://mysite.verizon.net/toomajan/lawrence
Warrior
>
>
> My first postings about scientology were in the spring of 1993 so it
>has been 14 years of battle to bring scientology's true nature into
>the public eye.
>
> I would like to thank all the people who have inspired, helped out,
>provided insight or support or provided a laugh over the years.
>Including but not limited to the following names and Usenet nicknames,
>and chat board names: Alert, Anabaptist Jacques, Andreas Heldal-Lund,
>Ariane Jackson, Android Cat, Antique Hoax, banchukita, Barbara Graham,
>BatChild, Bent Corydon, Betti Gefecht, Bird, Bonnie Woods, Brigitta
>Dagnell, Bob "da Sloth" Bingham, Bob Penny, Caroline Letkeman,
>catarina, Chip Gallo, Chuck Beatty, Chris Lethiser, Chris Owen, Claus
>Touretzky, David Gerard, David Mayo, Dennis Erlich, Det. Dennis
>Marlock, Det. Seargant Tom Miller, Det Seargant Ray Emmons, Dick
>Cleek, Dilbert Perkins, Dr. Donna Shannon, Don Lindsay, Doug Johnson,
>Dr. Ed Lottick, Ed Hataway, Erin-is-a-Goddess, ex-Mudder, FACTnet,
>Funkmaster, Mayor Gabe Cazares, Gary Weber, George Malko, Gerry
>Armstrong, Graham Berry, Greg Beha, Gregg Hagglund, Hana Eltringham,
>heffer, Homer Wilson Smith, Ida Camburn, James Lippard, Jeff Filbert,
>Jeff Jacobsen, Jeff Lee, Jens Tingleff, Jim Bebee, Joe Cisar, Joe
>Harrington, Johan Wevers, John Dorsay, John Ritson, Dr Jolyon
>"Jolly" West, Jon Atack, Karin Spaink, Keith Henson, Kim Baker, Kim
>Palmer, Kristi Wachter, ladayla, Ladybird, Lagniappe, Lawrence
>Wollersheim, Lars Westgarten, Lee Strope FDLE, Cong. Leo Ryan,
>LTRICHA1, Maggie Council, Margaret Huffstickler, Margaret Singer, PhD,
>Marina Chong, Martin Hunt, Martini, Martin Poulter, Maureen, Michael
>Gormez, Michael Pattinson, Michael Tilse, Mike O'Connor, Monica
>Pat Humphrey, Patrick Jost Ph.D., Paulette Cooper, Quaoar, Phineas Fogg,
>Phil Scott, Praxis, Prignillius, Rasta Robert, Ray Randolph, Raymond
>Hill, Rev Norle Enturbulata, Richard Behar, Rich Leiby, Rick Ross,
>ripodb, roan, Robert Minton, Rod Keller, Roger Gonnet, Ron Newman,
>Russel Miller, Shelly Thomson, Shmoodles, SchwimmelPuckel, Sponge,
>Stacy Young, Steven Hassan, Steve Whitlatch, Stewart Lamont,
>Gorman, Tom Pagett, Tony Bosnakoudis, Tony McClelland, Tory Christman,
>Volney Mathison, wbarwell, Yohjimboh!, Zenon Panoussis, Zorrosblade,
Take care, and be well. I'm glad to have been your friend for our
last 32 years. I tip my hat and salute you. Stay in touch.
Warrior - Sunshine disinfects
"Scientology: it's about deception."
http://warrior.xenu.ca
Tilman Hausherr
wrote:
>I hereby officially pass the baton, and withdraw from the field.
Sad to see you go.
What will happen with your webpage?
Tilman
--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP5.55] Entheta * Enturbulation * Entertainment
http://www.xenu.de
Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
Find broken links on your web site: http://home.snafu.de/tilman/xenulink.html
The Xenu bookstore: http://home.snafu.de/tilman/bookstore.html
goo...@draemr.com
Thanks for your friendship and inspiration over the last few years.
Your hard work and integrity helped pave the way for me to think
myself
out of the "scientology" mind-control box. I'm still working on it.
Never forget that you helped so many. Never forget that you are loved.
Take care, friend, I'll be in touch.
Michael
Zorrosblade........Z
wrote:
>
>
> My first postings about scientology were in the spring of 1993 so it
>has been 14 years of battle to bring scientology's true nature into
>the public eye.
>
> I would like to thank all the people who have inspired, helped out,
>provided insight or support or provided a laugh over the years.
>Including but not limited to the following names and Usenet nicknames,
>and chat board names: Alert, Anabaptist Jacques, Andreas Heldal-Lund,
>Ariane Jackson, Android Cat, Antique Hoax, banchukita, Barbara Graham,
>BatChild, Bent Corydon, Betti Gefecht, Bird, Bonnie Woods, Brigitta
>Dagnell, Bob "da Sloth" Bingham, Bob Penny, Caroline Letkeman,
>catarina, Chip Gallo, Chuck Beatty, Chris Lethiser, Chris Owen, Claus
>Wunderlich, Curtis Anderson,Cyril Vosper, Dan Garvin. Dave Bird, Dave
>Touretsky, David Gerard, David Mayo, Dennis Erlich, Det. Dennis
>Marlock, Det. Seargant Tom Miller, Det Seargant Ray Emmons, Dick
>Cleek, Dilbert Perkins, Dr. Donna Shannon, Don Lindsay, Doug Johnson,
>Dr. Ed Lottick, Ed Hataway, Erin-is-a-Goddess, ex-Mudder, FACTnet,,
>Frank Rich, Va. Sen. John Warner, Fred Rice, Freimann, Fred Durks,
>Funkmaster, Mayor Gabe Cazares, Gary Weber, George Malko, Gerry
>Armstrong, Graham Berry, Greg Beha, Gregg Hagglund, Hana Eltringham,
>heffer, Homer Wilson Smith, Ida Camburn, James Lippard, Jeff Filbert,
>Jeff Jacobsen, Jeff Lee, Jens Tingleff, Jim Bebee, Joe Cisar, Joe
>Harrington, Johan Wevers, John Dorsay, John Ritson, Dr Jolyon
>"Jolly" West, Jon Atack, Karin Spaink, Keith Henson, Kim Baker, Kim
>Palmer, Kristi Wachter, ladayla, Ladybird, Lagniappe, Lawrence
>Wollersheim, Lars Westgarten, Lee Strope FDLE, Cong. Leo Ryan,
>LTRICHA1, Maggie Council, Margaret Huffstickler, Margaret Singer, PhD,
>Marion Delgado, Mark Bunker, Mark Dallara, Mark Ebner,Mark Plummer,
>Marina Chong, Martin Hunt, Martini, Martin Poulter, Maureen, Michael
>Gormez, Michael Pattinson, Michael Tilse, Mike O'Connor, Monica
>Pignotti,Morsicle, Nan Mclean, Neail C., Wieber , Out_of_the_dark,
>Pat Humphrey, Patrick Jost Ph.D.Paulette Cooper, Quaoar, Phineas Fogg,
>Phil Scott, Praxis, Prignillius, Rasta Robert, Ray Randolph, Raymond
>Hill, Rev Norle Enturbulata, Richard Behar, Rich Leiby, Rick Ross,
>ripodb, roan, Robert Minton, Rod Keller, Roger Gonnet, Ron Newman,
>Russel Miller, Shelly Thomson, Shmoodles, SchwimmelPuckel, Sponge,
>Stacy Young, Steven Hassan, Steve Whitlatch, Stewart Lamont,
>Stickwork, Suzette Hubbard, The LMT, Tilman, Tom Klemesrud. Tommy
>Gorman, Tom Pagett, Tony Bosnakoudis, Tony McClelland, Tory Christman,
>Ulf Brettstam, M.D,, Wayne Whitney, Valerie Emmanuel, Vaughn Young,
>Volney Mathison, wbarwell, Yohjimboh!, Zenon Panoussis, Zorrosblade.
>Xenuotter.
>
>In Scientology Hubbard created the epitome of selfishness - everything
>for the sake of scientology, and the only thing that scientology
>produces is more scientologists.
>
>Our planet provides enough for all mans' needs, but there never is
>enough to satisfy greed, and we cannot afford the expensive indulgence
>of creating so much nothing, as in scientology.
>
>The only good to come out of the Scientology experience, is to use it
>as a case study, a living laboratory project, to teach people, how to
>determine what is true and what are mental manipulation for profit or
>slavery. Scientology is both.
>
>The experience and information learned over the last 14 years has
>achieved this for me, I hope you get as much out of your efforts.
>
>Having watched scientology's most recent performances, I no longer
>consider them a worthy opponent. Due to their extraordinary ineptitude
>and the vast degree of public awareness achieved in the last decade,
>Scientology no longer requires my assistance to come to an end.
>
>I hereby officially pass the baton, and withdraw from the field.
>
>
>August 24th 2007
>
>
>"Ten thousand lies -
>won't change a single truth
>about Scientology
>at Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
>WE COME BACK FOR OUR FRIENDS and FAMILY
>to get them out while they are still alive!
>Get Involved!
>http://ocmb.lermanet.us/discussion/viewforum.php?f=36
>http://ocmb.lermanet.us/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=381
>
>"He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity"
>Gore Vidal on meeting L Ron Hubbard
>
>My children and family are so glad
>to have me back and I'm glad you
>have your site to help people like
>us! - from an "OT" still in "good
>standing"
"The Matadors"
The dirty money and the sleazy hearts
swell with fiesta brava;
in cheap sol, dear sombra, sit the greedy
strong-armed with expendable cokes and cushions-
missile-rebukes of buyers to the bought:
pig-eyed, big assed, the princes of peseta,
tycoons of horses, tycoon of billets,
knowers of the greasy ropes, the skid:
aficionados of the tide that turns:
the bloodshock of the trumpets,
the celestial suit, the very sand,
under the sole of the slipper
crying, what is sold a man
if he lose his profit?
Yet it is silly to say
that their blood and their wrists have not spoken,
the fighters with names like lights:
El Espartaro, Manolete, Josalito, [Lerma].
They speak to us.
The bulls were always there;
in the moonlit pastures, moving through shadows
the blacker shadows.
They speak,
the matadors. To us.
'Right-thinking' cannot hush
them, nor the crowds, their enemy;
nor the gentle wish.
They will speak and we will answer.
Unless someone is born
who has not set himself
before the dark horned shape
alone,
set his feet in sand
calling softly, hoarsely,
"Toro, toro, Venga!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bjqYPH7rAo
Bob Dylan - It's Alright Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)
[YouTube Dylan_performance]
lyrics snip>
You lose yourself, you reappear
You suddenly find you got nothing to fear
Alone you stand with nobody near
When a trembling distant voice, unclear
Startles your sleeping ears to hear
That somebody thinks
They really found you.
lyrics snip>
An' though the rules of the road have been lodged
It's only people's games that you got to dodge
And it's alright, Ma, [Arnie] can make it.
lyrics snip>
A question in your nerves is lit
Yet you know there is no answer fit to satisfy
Insure you not to quit
To keep it in your mind and not fergit
That it is not he or she or them or it
That you belong to.
lyrics snip>
Although the masters make the rules
For the wise men and the fools
I got nothing, Ma, to live up to.
lyrics snip>
While them that defend what they cannot see
With a killer's pride, security
It blows the minds most bitterly
For them that think death's honesty
Won't fall upon them naturally
Life sometimes
Must get lonely."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bjqYPH7rAo
It's Alright, Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)
[Full lyrics/Bob Dylan]
Darkness at the break of noon
Shadows even the silver spoon
The handmade blade, the child's balloon
Eclipses both the sun and moon
To understand you know too soon
There is no sense in trying.
Pointed threats, they bluff with scorn
Suicide remarks are torn
From the fool's gold mouthpiece
The hollow horn plays wasted words
Proves to warn
That he not busy being born
Is busy dying.
Temptation's page flies out the door
You follow, find yourself at war
Watch waterfalls of pity roar
You feel to moan but unlike before
You discover
That you'd just be
One more person crying.
So don't fear if you hear
A foreign sound to your ear
It's alright, Ma, I'm only sighing.
As some warn victory, some downfall
Private reasons great or small
Can be seen in the eyes of those that call
To make all that should be killed to crawl
While others say don't hate nothing at all
Except hatred.
Disillusioned words like bullets bark
As human gods aim for their mark
Made everything from toy guns that spark
To flesh-colored Christs that glow in the dark
It's easy to see without looking too far
That not much
Is really sacred.
While preachers preach of evil fates
Teachers teach that knowledge waits
Can lead to hundred-dollar plates
Goodness hides behind its gates
But even the president of the United States
Sometimes must have
To stand naked.
An' though the rules of the road have been lodged
It's only people's games that you got to dodge
And it's alright, Ma, I can make it.
Advertising signs that con you
Into thinking you're the one
That can do what's never been done
That can win what's never been won
Meantime life outside goes on
All around you.
You lose yourself, you reappear
You suddenly find you got nothing to fear
Alone you stand with nobody near
When a trembling distant voice, unclear
Startles your sleeping ears to hear
That somebody thinks
They really found you.
A question in your nerves is lit
Yet you know there is no answer fit to satisfy
Insure you not to quit
To keep it in your mind and not fergit
That it is not he or she or them or it
That you belong to.
Although the masters make the rules
For the wise men and the fools
I got nothing, Ma, to live up to.
For them that must obey authority
That they do not respect in any degree
Who despise their jobs, their destinies
Speak jealously of them that are free
Cultivate their flowers to be
Nothing more than something
They invest in.
While some on principles baptized
To strict party platform ties
Social clubs in drag disguise
Outsiders they can freely criticize
Tell nothing except who to idolize
And then say God bless him.
While one who sings with his tongue on fire
Gargles in the rat race choir
Bent out of shape from society's pliers
Cares not to come up any higher
But rather get you down in the hole
That he's in.
But I mean no harm nor put fault
On anyone that lives in a vault
But it's alright, Ma, if I can't please him.
Old lady judges watch people in pairs
Limited in sex, they dare
To push fake morals, insult and stare
While money doesn't talk, it swears
Obscenity, who really cares
Propaganda, all is phony.
While them that defend what they cannot see
With a killer's pride, security
It blows the minds most bitterly
For them that think death's honesty
Won't fall upon them naturally
Life sometimes
Must get lonely.
My eyes collide head-on with stuffed graveyards
False gods, I scuff
At pettiness which plays so rough
Walk upside-down inside handcuffs
Kick my legs to crash it off
Say okay, I have had enough
What else can you show me?
And if my thought-dreams could be seen
They'd probably put my head in a guillotine
But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only."
/
Take care, Lerma Pagliarini. May fair winds always be on your back ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRbeUnn-AUA&mode=related&search=
[Bob Dylan: "Mr. Tamborine Man (YouTube)]
Recorded at the Newport Folk Festival in 1964
lyric snip>
Though I know that evenin's empire has returned into sand,
Vanished from my hand,
Left me blindly here to stand but still not sleeping.
My weariness amazes me, I'm branded on my feet,
I have no one to meet
And the ancient empty [ARS] street's too dead for dreaming."
Z-blade
--
--
"We will be known forever by the tracks we leave"
--Dakota proverb
"But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first."
--Matthew 19:30
//
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
butterflygrrrl
RolandRB
>
> "He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity"
> Gore Vidal on meeting L Ron Hubbard
>
> My children and family are so glad
> to have me back and I'm glad you
> have your site to help people like
> us! - from an "OT" still in "good
> standing"
I'm guessing you are seriously ill. I hope not but I guess so. You
have collected some incredible stuff in your time and I hope it does
not get lost. Your baton will continue in the race.
ladayla
Aw Gee, Arnie. Don't go. I sure hope that it is not poor health that
has induced you to leave us. You have been, and will always remain, a
true-teller of the invidious nature of Scientology. We will miss you
big time. There's an old lyric that I wish for you " I wish you
shelter from the storm, a cozy fire to keep you warm, I wish you
health and more than wealth, I wish you love".
jana ( la)
Voodoo MooGoo
> My first postings about scientology were in the spring of 1993 so it has
> been 14 years of battle to bring scientology's true nature into the
> public eye.
[...]
> Having watched scientology's most recent performances, I no longer
> consider them a worthy opponent. Due to their extraordinary ineptitude
> and the vast degree of public awareness achieved in the last decade,
> Scientology no longer requires my assistance to come to an end.
>
> I hereby officially pass the baton, and withdraw from the field.
Hi Arnie,
Thanks for all you have done. Its a big world ... go enjoy it.
>
> August 24th 2007
>
>
> "Ten thousand lies -
> won't change a single truth
> about Scientology
> at Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
> WE COME BACK FOR OUR FRIENDS and FAMILY to get them out while they are
> still alive! Get Involved!
> http://ocmb.lermanet.us/discussion/viewforum.php?f=36
> http://ocmb.lermanet.us/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=381
>
> "He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity" Gore Vidal on meeting L Ron
> Hubbard
>
> My children and family are so glad
> to have me back and I'm glad you
> have your site to help people like
> us! - from an "OT" still in "good
> standing"
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Orkeltatte aka Ulf Brettstam
> My first postings about scientology were in the spring of 1993 so it
> has been 14 years of battle to bring scientology's true nature into
> the public eye.
>
> consider them a worthy opponent. Due to their extraordinary ineptitude
> and the vast degree of public awareness achieved in the last decade,
> Scientology no longer requires my assistance to come to an end.
>
> I hereby officially pass the baton, and withdraw from the field.
>
>
> "Ten thousand lies -
> won't change a single truth
> about Scientology
> at Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
> WE COME BACK FOR OUR FRIENDS and FAMILY
> to get them out while they are still alive!
>
> "He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity"
> Gore Vidal on meeting L Ron Hubbard
>
> My children and family are so glad
> to have me back and I'm glad you
> have your site to help people like
> us! - from an "OT" still in "good
> standing"
Allthough you say you are withdrawing, you will not be gone!
Live well, enjoy life and my deepest and longest bow to you for all
that you have done for thy fellow men.
Ulf Brettstam,MD.
True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to
enlighten oneself and others.
Voltaire
"What can we say to a man who tells you that he would rather obey God
than men, and that therefore he is sure to go to heaven for butchering
you? Even the law is impotent against these attacks of rage; it is
like reading a court decree to a raving maniac. These fellows are
certain that the holy spirit with which they are filled is above the
law, that their enthusiasm is the only law that they must obey."
[Voltaire, 1764]
SME
Arnie. You have done a GREAT deal to help people who have to one
degree or another been abused or otherwise taken advantage of by "the
church". And I know you have done this often times with little or no
support from others and dispite many physical hardships.
I just wanted to say "thank you" for all you have done, that I
consider you a friend and that I wish you everything good in your
future.
Larry (SME)
ShowMe
Arnie I was hoping you'd write a book before you left. Maybe that's a
surprise you have coming our way.
I always admired your insight into the church. You seemed to uncover
all those black secret holes the church tried so hard to keep hidden
from everyone.
Please be sure all your work is preserved for generations to come. It
will be needed if another COS like cult raises its ugly head.
Thank You
Thank You
Thank You
ShowMe
ida...@aol.com
Thank you Arnie for being my friend. You helped to fill the
giant gap in my life brought on by LRH's organization.
Keep well
Be Happy
lov u
Ida C.
alfred e. neuman
"Lermanet.com" <Arnie...@Lermanet.COM> wrote in message
news:df5vc3dsbqn96mgqa...@4ax.com...
>
Dude, you were one of the people I knew was a "real" critic. I guess all
things must come to a end.
I agree with Magoo.. Take a breather and if you are so inclined, return to
the fray! I think you will always be welcome here!
alf...
Out_Of_The_Dark
>
>
> > "Ten thousand lies -
> > won't change a single truth
> > about Scientology
> > at Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
> > WE COME BACK FOR OUR FRIENDS and FAMILY
> > to get them out while they are still alive!
>
> > "He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity"
> > Gore Vidal on meeting L Ron Hubbard
>
> > My children and family are so glad
> > to have me back and I'm glad you
> > have your site to help people like
> > us! - from an "OT" still in "good
> > standing"
>
> ever asked was supposed to be, Am I my brothers keeper? I think we
> both belive that the answer to that is supposed to be, at least to
> some degree,yes.
>
> I did notice that in one of you recent postings you included an email
> to the CoS attorney's about an offer they had made to you to end the
> Armstrong/scientology war. I can only hope that something has been
> worked out so you can at long last live without the constant need to
> deal with lawsuits and lawyers. In any event the record is clear
> about who you are and what you accomplished and the internet will
> insure that none of it is forgotten.
>
> Uncle Bruce < <
Bruce, I think you misunderstood the email you saw, which was actually
posted by Gerry Armstrong. It was from the church lawyers to Gerry but
not related to a settlement, only to an upcoming hearing. They were /
are giving him a hard time so he bypassed and wrote to the court to
get the extension of time he needed to address the church's recent
resurrection of old matters that are intended to tie him CoS overall
strategy to drain their opponients dry financially, mentally,
spiritually and physically. Look at Gerry's profile and you can find
the post he made of that correspondence and his reply and subsequent
posts .
Arnie didn't post anything like that here.
Out_Of_The_Dark
>
> "He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity"
> Gore Vidal on meeting L Ron Hubbard
>
> My children and family are so glad
> to have me back and I'm glad you
> have your site to help people like
> us! - from an "OT" still in "good
> standing" <
Arnie, This is quite a surprise but I respect your decision.
You are correct. It's obvious the church is on it's way out and cannot
compete with the work you and others have made available to others on
the internet.
Besides your remarkable history of research, interviews and postings,
and web site, you stand out among the top critics as someone who has
made it possible for members and ex-members to have a trusted resource
to go to for advise and help in stepping out of the mental trappings
Hubbard, DM & and scientology created to contain us. I am one of those
people and I am truely grateful for the time you gave me. I'm
especially grateful for the time and advise you gave me when I finally
I got up the courage to make my first call to you.
You answered many questions and directed me on what to read and where.
After I found my way on a.r.s. and saw who really contributed and who
just made problems, I could not help but come to your defense when
others would attack you or minimize your contributions. You are a good
man, Arnie Lerma, and you deserve no less than that.
You have helped & informed many, many people. You have stood the test
of time against the cult. I'm not going to speculate here on why you
are leaving because I know that if anyone deserved a vacation from
being a critic, it's you.
What's clear to me is that a.r.s. and the critical information that
exists on the internet today have rapidly evolved from the foundations
you and other oldtimers here have set in place and kept in motion. The
internet is keeping these foundations in motion and there is NOTHING
CoS can do about that. That is the definition of success. So I can
appreciate the idea that you'll enjoy spending more time with family &
close friend and less to none here but please remember that you will
be missed.Pop in now and again and let us know how you're doing.
Thank you, Arnie.
Mary
Out_Of_The_Dark
http://www.lermanet.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnaldo_Lerma
bmul...@verizon.net
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes, I realise that now. I also reread what I "misunderstood".
Uncle Bruce
Out_Of_The_Dark
>
> Yes, I realise that now. I also reread what I "misunderstood".
> Uncle Bruce <
Because it lacked some background explanation, it was not an easy read
by any means. I enjoy your posts and look forward to more, Bruce.
Mary
Out_of_The_Dark
Gerry Armstrong
I asked Bruce about this, but he hasn't responded.
>> I can only hope that something has been
>> worked out so you can at long last live without the constant need to
>> deal with lawsuits and lawyers. In any event the record is clear
>> about who you are and what you accomplished and the internet will
>> insure that none of it is forgotten.
>>
>> Uncle Bruce < <
>
>Bruce, I think you misunderstood the email you saw, which was actually
>posted by Gerry Armstrong. It was from the church lawyers to Gerry but
>not related to a settlement, only to an upcoming hearing. They were /
>are giving him a hard time so he bypassed and wrote to the court to
>get the extension of time he needed to address the church's recent
>resurrection of old matters that are intended to tie him CoS overall
>strategy to drain their opponients dry financially, mentally,
>spiritually and physically. Look at Gerry's profile and you can find
>the post he made of that correspondence and his reply and subsequent
>posts .
>
>Arnie didn't post anything like that here.
That makes sense. Thanks.
© Gerry Armstrong
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org
Gerry Armstrong
Well no, but I guess there's no arguing with you at this time.
In the temporal world, Scientology produces conflict, indeed war,
heartache, fear, disconnection, hate, cowardice, all sorts of untoward
things.
>
>Our planet provides enough for all mans' needs, but there never is
>enough to satisfy greed, and we cannot afford the expensive indulgence
>of creating so much nothing, as in scientology.
>
>The only good to come out of the Scientology experience, is to use it
>as a case study, a living laboratory project, to teach people, how to
>determine what is true and what are mental manipulation for profit or
>slavery.
It is an unnecessary experience, clearly. Scientology is *not* the
source of knowledge, *even* the knowledge that there is no knowledge
in Scientology. Nobody has to do Scientology. It is enough that one
person did it.
>Scientology is both.
It is after all a cult of intelligence. The more intelligence you've
got the more bases you try to cover.
>
>The experience and information learned over the last 14 years has
>achieved this for me, I hope you get as much out of your efforts.
>
>Having watched scientology's most recent performances, I no longer
>consider them a worthy opponent.
Here's where we diverge, at least as far as a.r.s. is concerned, and
really why I'm writing.
I'd like to know what recent performances by Scientology you base this
conclusion or realization on.
The cult's success in jailing Keith Henson? The fact that no US media
said anything in protest? The fact that not one government person,
federally, in California or in any other state said anything in
protest? The cult's motion to reinstate sentences against me? Their
opening of their org in Berlin? Their purchase of property in cities
all over the world? Their billions? Their phalanx of lawyers? Their
success in staying out of court? Their maintaining of their tax
exemption? Their covey of academic collaborators? The fact that no
U.S. Government official, no American media, no American attorney, no
American has spoken up about what the cult is doing right now in Marin
Superior Court? These recent performances?
I understand from what you say that the Scientology cultists at least
*were* a worthy opponent for you until their recent performances.
I frankly have observed no reduction of this cult's wealth or power,
or any change in its ev purps toward good wogs or in your government's
support of the cult and its ev purps.
It seems to me that if they're still standing and you've left the
octagon, they were a most worthy opponent.
>Due to their extraordinary ineptitude
>and the vast degree of public awareness achieved in the last decade,
>Scientology no longer requires my assistance to come to an end.
That may be true. But they are a worthy opponent.
It may not be worth your while to continue your opposition. And I
certainly wish you well and thank you for all you've done in that
opposition. But should it ever again be worth your while to oppose
Scientology, the cult is a worthy opponent.
>
>I hereby officially pass the baton, and withdraw from the field.
You don't want to pass any baton to anyone to run against, or oppose,
an unworthy opponent. You only want to pass the baton to someone to
run against or oppose a worthy opponent.
You really could not have left the field because Scientology is an
unworthy opponent, because it's very worthy. It, again frankly, is a
worthy enough opponent it should be opposed by every wog on planet
earth. And even if every wog on planet earth got together to oppose
it, Scientology is a worthy opponent.
You can say anything you want about the reason you're leaving the
field, and ceasing your opposition to Scientology. Or you can say
nothing at all. But Scientology has done nothing to have gone from
worthy opponent to unworthy opponent, and I think you should at least
come back to correct this wrong message.
I really will notice when Scientology becomes an unworthy opponent,
believe me.
Or, I don't know, give me a call. 604-703-1373.
>
>
>August 24th 2007
>
>
>"Ten thousand lies -
>won't change a single truth
>about Scientology
>at Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
>WE COME BACK FOR OUR FRIENDS and FAMILY
>to get them out while they are still alive!
>Get Involved!
>http://ocmb.lermanet.us/discussion/viewforum.php?f=36
>http://ocmb.lermanet.us/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=381
>
>"He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity"
>Gore Vidal on meeting L Ron Hubbard
>
>My children and family are so glad
>to have me back and I'm glad you
>have your site to help people like
>us! - from an "OT" still in "good
>standing"
© Gerry Armstrong
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org
Out_Of_The_Dark
Gerry,
Bruce responded to my reply.He's still new here but catching on fast.
Some oldtimers still top post ;)
He mistook Arnie for you and misunderstood your post about the email
you received from CoS lawyers: 13 bmulk...@verizon.net Aug
http://tinyurl.com/3byjz2
At first I struggled with it a bit because it was not prefaced with
some history. I didn't know understand how it connected to the past
court cases. Your followup post with the court request really
explained the first one better for me.
While I've got your attention here, you really gave the judge the
bottom line facts on what CoS is doing in that case and I am praying
that the judge will do what is right and just.
Mary
Out_Of_The_Dark
barb
butterflygrrrl
> YOU FUCKER!
Oh, shut up, you stupid fake Barb. Everyone knows it's not her!
Wow, some "religion" you've got there, that has you here posting crap
like that, pretending to be someone else. Is this what you joined
scientology for?
Out_Of_The_Dark
I see the points you raised but I think that what Arnie is saying is
that the most important fundamental elements of the war have been
fought and won. Keith Henson's case and the recent reactivation of the
issues against You , Minton & LMT are being dredged up for posterity
sake to make it look like they are doing something about the critics
as a whole.
That is not to minimize what you and Keith are going through, only to
say that the only wars left to fight are essentially won because the
cult could not survive them. Why? Because CoS is losing it's
membership and the internet is stopping the flow of more joining. I
suggest that the antics he spoke of include some of the recent posters
who came, tried to stir up trouble or confusion, and then were mocked
right out of the group by critics.
Scientology is buying buildings on a downpayment & staff postulate
checks.... making the org staff beholden to the notes to carry the
purchases. It's all an attempt to buy while before inflation kicks
in. It's an apparency of success. The Super Power building would be up
and finished if CoS had real cash available to spend. It's a charade.
You have been an essential player in making the changes to how people
perceive scientology, Gerry. Sadly, you, like some other critics, have
a heavier cross to bear than others. I don't understand all of the
issues related to your court case is being resurrected and why LMT and
Minton are being sued as well, and I wish I was a lawyer so I could
help you during these times. I felt the same about Keith's situation.
But I do know that any unresolved legal matters with critics are
easier for CoS to deal with than trying to contend with new lawsuits
with new material the public would be aware beforehand, before it gets
tangled up in legalese to confuse the 'little people' of a.r.s.
I hope I am saying this right because I understand all that you wrote
and see why you wrote it. Your frustrations concern the apparent
organization of CoS 's attacks vs the critic world and it's
antipathetical effect on being organized to deal with them as a whole.
As much as I dislike this reality, it is each man fighting for himself
for the lack of an organized group to oppose CoS. I wish we were
organized in planning strategies to shut them down but we're not. We
are what we can be despite that fact and we are doing pretty good
overall as a group.
Muldoon
wrote:
-snip-
> organization of CoS ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I'm not sure what's going on with this, but I can't say that I have a
good feeling about it.
Looked over on the Scientology board on 'Topix' and under the thread
(page 8) of "Scientology makes death threats on Topix," is a post by
Arnie Lerma, dated Friday, August 24, that states: "The loss of Mike
Rinder hints to me that Scientology may be more dangerous than ever."
(?)
RolandRB
>
> - Show quoted text -
My own interpretation is that Arnie doesn't have much time left and
wants to be left in peace.
Eldon
You have amassed a lot of positive karma over the past 14 years,
whether you or I believe in it or not. (I'm undecided at this point.)
You put in monumental amounts of work on your website, and as a matter
of fact the historical stuff is pretty comprehensive at this point
anyway. One more letter from Volney M. won't matter.
And yes, I agree with you that the battle is mostly won. At this
point, potential new victims steer far, FAR clear of the streetcorner
stress and personality test crack whores.
However, I agree with Kevin B. that your low voltage current /
duration theory about the e-meter is suspect and may even be total
bullshit... although then again, you and William Burroughs still might
have had a point or two about that trickle cujrrent's immediate effect
on the brain via the neural backchannel or whatever. We can discuss
that later if you wish to reappear as a Critic Emeritus.
I also agree with Gerry that Scientology is still wealthy, psychotic,
vindictive and dangerous -- but those attributes alone don't make it
effective for much longer. The current nasty attacks may just be the
death throes of a reptilian sci-fi creature generated by special
effects.
Surely, as wannabe civilized humans, we shouldn't agree on everything
anyway. If we did, what would we have to discuss as intelligent human
beings?
In closing, I will remind the above "thetans" that intelligence has
very little correlation with religion, acculturation, education,
gullibility, charisma or sanity. Intelligence is just the speed of the
latest chip.
However, moral sense and raw virtue can affect all of those
attributes, and Arnie is living proof.
> Our planet provides enough for all mans' needs, but there never is
> enough to satisfy greed, and we cannot afford the expensive indulgence
> of creating so much nothing, as in scientology.
>
> The only good to come out of the Scientology experience, is to use it
> as a case study, a living laboratory project, to teach people, how to
> determine what is true and what are mental manipulation for profit or
> slavery. Scientology is both.
>
> The experience and information learned over the last 14 years has
> achieved this for me, I hope you get as much out of your efforts.
>
> Having watched scientology's most recent performances, I no longer
> consider them a worthy opponent. Due to their extraordinary ineptitude
> and the vast degree of public awareness achieved in the last decade,
> Scientology no longer requires my assistance to come to an end.
>
> I hereby officially pass the baton, and withdraw from the field.
>
> August 24th 2007
>
> "Ten thousand lies -
> won't change a single truth
> about Scientology
> at Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
> WE COME BACK FOR OUR FRIENDS and FAMILY
> to get them out while they are still alive!
> Get Involved!http://ocmb.lermanet.us/discussion/viewforum.php?f=36http://ocmb.lermanet.us/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=381
Out_Of_The_Dark
ok, I went and read his post and the whole thread plus the thread from
the link that the victim of threats, Polly, gave. My feeling is that
his comment was meant to support Polly's and that if between the 24
and the 25th he received death threats, too... then who can blame him
for making a choice that any of us would make to spare our families
from the rath of scientology's minions.
But I don't believe he's been threatened in any way related to that
post. Just my gut instinct. Why add to the cults scare tactics by
promoting the idea, even if they did scare him? Right?
RolandRB
>
> - Show quoted text -
My gut instinct is that he has got Big C and wants some peace and time
to himself before the end.
Out_Of_The_Dark
nothing solid to suggest that this is the case and to imply it's a
possibility is to set the rumor machine rolling.
Arnie has a son he loves very much and if anything would take him away
from a love affair on a.r.s. it would be that boy, or some hot woman
he's fallen hard for, or the lack of a good game here for him to play.
He was also supposed to get surgery on his bad back but had been
putting it off. Perhaps he's decided overall that his family and his
health are more important than battling against inept OSABots & amend
project cases like AOLA.. aka 0MartyRathbun0, Jonathan Barbera, and
LaserClam. Even Von Hatten is suspect.
I am trying to look at this objectively and hope for the best. I
suggest we all try until we become privy to more info if such exists.
I hope you won't take this as 'invalidation' because I can see what
you're saying and don't dismiss the posibility. Anything is possible
but we're better to just stick with what we now for now, IMHO
Mary
Feisty
"Lermanet.com" <Arnie...@Lermanet.COM> wrote in message
news:df5vc3dsbqn96mgqa...@4ax.com...
>
>
Thanks Arnie, your website will always be there for people to read and learn. For
many years, you have acted as the voice for those who had information, as the posting
and litigation regarding the Xenu Story highlights a persons bravery to speak out.
In any neighborhood where crime and fraud are to be watched for, or information is
shared from victims, it is well known that community policing or neighborhood watch
advocates end up being the same few to "get more responsibility" as a result of
taking that stand to speak out on their behalf. There are victims. There is
awareness - and through education comes prevention and reduction of crime and - it is
everyones responsibility, Enough cannot be said on how important it is for everyone
to have a place to get involved.
The information warfare that ensues today is what you said, years ago -
"The Internet is $cientology's Vietnam."
And everyone can see that connecting the dots on past or present schemes, to piece
together what $cientology tries to revise because they are so at risk to lose their
posh and comfortable tax exemption as the biggest running scam right in front of
everyones eyes. Sharing and putting together the information in this collective
brings great distraction, and the Internet continues to count their lies, daily.
As a part of educating and teaching others, you have become the listening ear for
many who have left the $cientology cult, and others who observe them from the
community they live, and there is indeed a need for people to do this everyday.
People come on line to share these things daily.
What I don't think others realize is that everyone is responsible for making the
decision to fight fraud, scams. By the way people have left in past years, or step
forward to share information, I don't think the public realizes that they have
partaken in helping discover the motivation and evidence of the operation of such a
large criminal organization. People are coerced, people help everyday to move money
around to unknown places without questioning, and the view from the outside of this
organization have people work effortlessly to reach our elected officials to act on
these findings.
One person cannot do this all, for it takes a collective of information and thinking
people. We all come on our own, to find some niche and help to connect dots and keep
putting information out, so that eventually it becomes more a collective of
prevention than a collective of victims.
Arnie has definitely put forward a great effort in this collective. And especially to
make this collective grow. This is not a loss, this is a recognition of inspiration
to do something. Nothing is lost when there are things to pass down to our children
and our children's children, generationally. Things can only be gained if we have
read and understood the writings on Lermanet.
If anyone has learned anything from Arnie, it's to do something - to any degree, what
he has - in order to keep the sharing collective going. Because in any group, for as
many that speak up and do anything, there are always more that talk, have ideas, and
never do anything themself.
We are all human beings and we do what we can. Every person who adds something, does
something helps in the long run. We are all capable, and are not losing anything by
Arnies leaving the fray. We all have what we came with, and still have something to
share. There is no doubt of the inspiration gained by the effort that Arnie has put
forth.
One thing I don't think that anyone realizes, is that besides the amount of
information that has been shared on Lermanet, Arnie talked and counseled many people
with questions, or members who leave, and on any given day, the telephone could ring
nonstop. For all the demands that
Most of the answers, and healing or action as a result, is realized by a person
reading and realizing the strength in each person to act upon inner thoughts,
feelings and ideas.
Going to forums where members help other members, identify or validate that strength
to go on, is in every person, and a gift to share. If a person learns by another to
use the smarts and talents they have, that too is something that passes from
generation to generation.
Sharing the information and getting the information out in the information war is
what Lermanet is all about. Discrediting will always happen to people, but the
information will
not change, so nothing can be lost in the information we bring forward to criticallt
discuss and continue to post to the Internet.
The Internet is deprogramming people. From $cientology and even other subversive and
delusional groups propaganda techniques.
What's true is that the amount of information already there, that continues to grow
on the Internet is helping. The best way to thank Arnie or anyone that helps with
such information is to keep adding to the collective.
Everyone has a special gift, so keep on keeping on to give it and support others to
keep fighting $cientology and other mentally manipulative scams.
Best to you Arnie,
Maureen
Eldon
I second that sentiment. Roland has an interesting sense of humo(u)r,
but tends to get a bit sicko with it.
I've advised him to shut his big fucking mouth before when Ken Ogger
died, and I'll tell him again now:
So Roland, why don't you have the politesse and restraint to just shut
your big fucking mouth occasionally? It doesn't matter what the
circumstances are. You still have no right to insult and demean people
with your snide speculations. Sometimes they are funny, but often
they're just cruel.
If Arnie has a life-threatening illness, he will tell us when he
wishes. If he doesn't, he will take a vacation and check in when he
wishes.
If you want to behave like an inconsiderate British asshole, of course
you are free do that. But I shall also feel free to point out how
fucked up you are as a person and as the representative of a nation
that purports to be civilised.
Kevin Brady
"Duane" <whoev...@diz.com> wrote in message
news:o357d3triudggrbse...@4ax.com...
> dangerous than ever, then why does he suddenly announce that they are
> not a worthy opponent any more?
>
> Arnie has had deaths threats before and NEVER caved in. On the
> contrary, he just became a better pitt-bull biting the cult more where
> it hurts.
>
> OK, I wasn't a big fan of his the last couple of years, but he has a
> darn good website, one of the best, and I would hate it if it gets
> lost.
So copy it. There are plenty of tools online which will allow you to copy
every file, and every link, unless he has them protected somehow, and I
don't know why he'd bother with that.
Eldon
> On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 20:37:13 -0700, "Kevin Brady"
>
>
>
> <gomorr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >"Duane" <whoever...@diz.com> wrote in message
> >news:o357d3triudggrbse...@4ax.com...
> >> On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 01:53:21 -0700, Muldoon <brian9...@dslextreme.com>
> searching the net. Anyway, if he allows it, I suppose someone will
> mirror it.
>
I doubt that Arnie will take down the website. If he doesn't want to
pay for hosting and domain renewal (a pittance), someone else can do
that easily enough. My impression was that he just doesn't plan to
spend more working on it.
It's pretty much complete as it is anyway.
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
Don't disappear. Your site is priceless and must not fade away!
Just today, my relatives asked about the Crowley and LRH connection,
and I am referring them to your site!
Take a year or two off!
Thanks for your decade plus of hard work!!!
Don't be disappearing though! You gotta still be reachable for
consultation!!!
Best, Chuck Beatty
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
>
> Arnie, you were, and still are, one of the most important critics.
I absolutely agree with this.
- Chuck Beatty
WolfyRik
wrote:
> > Arnie, you were, and still are, one of the most important critics.
>
> I absolutely agree with this.
>
> - Chuck Beatty
Agreed. I'm sorry to see you leave Arnie. You've been great and I
consider you an example to be learned from. As others have said, if
you choose to comeback, you will be welcomed and respected as you are
now.
I think you are right, that the "church" (cult) of scientology has
made it's own enemies, continues to make more, and is it's own worst
enemy. It is ultimately self-destroying.
Hopefully though, the critics will keep fighting anyway, not to
destroy (it will do that itself) but to redeem. Hopefully they (dare I
say we without sounding self important) will rescue many people from
it's grasp before it collapses. That way there will be fewer people to
pull from the wreckage.
Good luck in whatever you do.
Respectfully,
WolfyRik
bmul...@verizon.net
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I tend to agree with you Gerry. To say that scientology has been
beaten is very premature. Many other cults have had there ups and
downs and managed to survive and even prosper. I also monitor Mr.
Rick Ross's site and there are a number of examples of cults that have
managed to survive for years despite a huge amount of negative
publicity. As I have said in other postings, my own definition of a
"win" will be when the CoS no longer is allowed to pose as a religion
and ceases their human rights abuses. I'm not so much interested in
killing the beast as I am in putting it in a cage and observing it
through the bars. Until that happens they will be my opponent, worthy
or not. Of course I am in no way comparing sitting at home and
posting on this site to the active opposition both you and Mr. Lerma
have undertaken.
Uncle Bruce
Out_Of_The_Dark
> On Aug 27, 6:20 pm, Out_Of_The_Dark <xscilentolog...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 27, 9:58 am, RolandRB <rolandbe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > My gut instinct is that he has got Big C and wants some peace and time
> > > to himself before the end < < < <
>
> > Roland, I hear what you've been saying on this thread but there is
> > nothing solid to suggest that this is the case and to imply it's a
>
> I second that sentiment. Roland has an interesting sense of humo(u)r,
> but tends to get a bit sicko with it.
>
> I've advised him to shut his big fucking mouth before when Ken Ogger
> died, and I'll tell him again now:
>
> So Roland, why don't you have the politesse and restraint to just shut
> your big fucking mouth occasionally? It doesn't matter what the
> circumstances are. You still have no right to insult and demean people
> with your snide speculations. Sometimes they are funny, but often
> they're just cruel.
>
> If Arnie has a life-threatening illness, he will tell us when he
> wishes. If he doesn't, he will take a vacation and check in when he
> wishes.
>
> If you want to behave like an inconsiderate British asshole, of course
> you are free do that. But I shall also feel free to point out how
> fucked up you are as a person and as the representative of a nation
> that purports to be civilised. < < <
now, now, If Roland's having a 'vision', so to speak, I think it might
simply be a case of bleak weather and too many now empty bottles of
Appenzeller Quöllfrisch Hell, the remains of which are probably still
sitting on the computer table ;).
08Jul07 OT challenge
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/aa4c1b77062ddad4?hl=en&
Eldon
That could be. And who knows? Perhaps he also had a vision of the
redoubtable Miss Manners stepping out of his computer screen, special-
effects style, and giving him a swift knee to the cajones.
>
> 08Jul07 OT challengehttp://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/aa4c1b770...
WolfyRik
*cough* he doesn't speak for me thanks. And being British doesn't have
much to do with it. Our rudeness tends to specialise in "why don't
more foreigners speak english?" and claiming other peoples countries.
The latter of course we tend not to practice often anymore.
I really hope Arnie is ok. It was very sudden how he left. I stand by
what I said previously though. He will be missed, but honoured. And I
hope we do him proud.
Pts 2
years, you have done a LOT in the fight to expose the con job known as
THE CULT OF GREED.
May the latter part of your life be filled with more light-hearted
things and events.
My very best and keep in touch,
Tom
-------------------------
www.thebridgemovie.net
Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net
Thank you for the difference you've made over the years. If you ever get
to travel to Norway you know there is a bottle of nice Italian wine and
a guest room waiting for you here. :)
Take care, my friend.
Hugs,
Andreas Heldal-Lund # http://spirous.blogspot.com/ # www.xenu.net
Phone: +47 88 00 66 66 # Address: Postboks 131, N-4098 Tananger, Norway
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Each of us does what we can do. Our obligation is to do it as well as
we can, with as much grace, dignity, integrity and honor our egos can
tolerate."
---------------------------------------------[Robert Vaughn Young]-----
> Our planet provides enough for all mans' needs, but there never is
> enough to satisfy greed, and we cannot afford the expensive indulgence
> of creating so much nothing, as in scientology.
>
> The only good to come out of the Scientology experience, is to use it
> as a case study, a living laboratory project, to teach people, how to
> determine what is true and what are mental manipulation for profit or
> slavery. Scientology is both.
>
> The experience and information learned over the last 14 years has
> achieved this for me, I hope you get as much out of your efforts.
>
> Having watched scientology's most recent performances, I no longer
> consider them a worthy opponent. Due to their extraordinary ineptitude
> and the vast degree of public awareness achieved in the last decade,
> Scientology no longer requires my assistance to come to an end.
>
> I hereby officially pass the baton, and withdraw from the field.
>
>
> August 24th 2007
>
>
> "Ten thousand lies -
> won't change a single truth
> about Scientology
> at Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
> WE COME BACK FOR OUR FRIENDS and FAMILY
> to get them out while they are still alive!
> Get Involved!
> http://ocmb.lermanet.us/discussion/viewforum.php?f=36
> http://ocmb.lermanet.us/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=381
>
> "He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity"
> Gore Vidal on meeting L Ron Hubbard
>
> My children and family are so glad
> to have me back and I'm glad you
> have your site to help people like
> us! - from an "OT" still in "good
> standing"
--
Best wishes,
Andreas Heldal-Lund # http://spirous.blogspot.com/ # xenu.net
Ph: +47 8800 6666 # Addr: Postboks 131, N-4098 Tananger, Norway
---------------------------------------------------------------
Each of us does what we can do. Our obligation is to do it as
well as we can, with as much grace, dignity, integrity and
honor our egos can tolerate.
-------------------------------------[Robert Vaughn Young]-----
Michael Pattinson
>
> "He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity"
> Gore Vidal on meeting L Ron Hubbard
>
> My children and family are so glad
> to have me back and I'm glad you
> have your site to help people like
> us! - from an "OT" still in "good
> standing"
Arnie,
I can understand your decision to pass the baton.
I did a similar thing last year, and have been happy to withdraw to a
new focus.
My feeling is that Scn is failing fast with DM at the helm, and it is
likely to continue its downtrend regardless of all the glowing fake
PR. If it ever revives we can always step back in.
You have more than run the race to truth about the Scientology scam,
and your work has produced real results world-wide. I do hope that
your website can remain up and available, as it can be very effective
in steering people away from the insidious cult.
I wish you the very best is your new focus and areas of purposes and
personal satisfaction whichever games you decide to play in Life.
God's speed.
Michael Pattinson
Kevin Brady
Arnie's site, or to pay for it to continue to be hosted. I disagree
VEHEMENTLY with Arnie on many things, but I do consider his voice of GREAT
VALUE in terms of sparking people's thoughts, challenging their beliefs,
etc.
I'm sure there are others who would echo this thought!
--
Wrong Reverend K. G. Brady
(415) 341-0022
gomo...@hotmail.com
http://www.myspace.com/clear_objectives
"Michael Pattinson" <mpatt...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1188616667....@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Out_Of_The_Dark
> While people here might not trust me to do so, I would be happy to host
> Arnie's site, or to pay for it to continue to be hosted. I disagree
> VEHEMENTLY with Arnie on many things, but I do consider his voice of GREAT
> VALUE in terms of sparking people's thoughts, challenging their beliefs,
> etc.
>
> I'm sure there are others who would echo this thought!
> --
> Wrong Reverend K. G. Brady
> (415) 341-0022
>
> >> "He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity"
> >> Gore Vidal on meeting L Ron Hubbard
>
> >> My children and family are so glad
> >> to have me back and I'm glad you
> >> have your site to help people like
> >> us! - from an "OT" still in "good
> >> standing"
>
> > Arnie,
>
> > I can understand your decision to pass the baton.
> > I did a similar thing last year, and have been happy to withdraw to a
> > new focus.
> > My feeling is that Scn is failing fast with DM at the helm, and it is
> > likely to continue its downtrend regardless of all the glowing fake
> > PR. If it ever revives we can always step back in.
> > You have more than run the race to truth about the Scientology scam,
> > and your work has produced real results world-wide. I do hope that
> > your website can remain up and available, as it can be very effective
> > in steering people away from the insidious cult.
> > I wish you the very best is your new focus and areas of purposes and
> > personal satisfaction whichever games you decide to play in Life.
> > God's speed.
>
> - Show quoted text - < < <
That was nice of you, Kevin, but Ialready asked and have been informed
that there's no need for a host because the site is in no danger of
lapsing. It was set up in advance to be around for many, many years to
come.
His & others contact info is still up on the site:
" aler...@verizon.net
[ remove the letters ZX from every email address on this page,
inserted to reduce SPAM ] http://www.lermanet.com/speakers.htm
"
RolandRB
>
> > "He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity"
> > Gore Vidal on meeting L Ron Hubbard
>
> > My children and family are so glad
> > to have me back and I'm glad you
> > have your site to help people like
> > us! - from an "OT" still in "good
> > standing"
>
> Arnie,
>
> I can understand your decision to pass the baton.
> I did a similar thing last year, and have been happy to withdraw to a
> new focus.
> My feeling is that Scn is failing fast with DM at the helm, and it is
> likely to continue its downtrend regardless of all the glowing fake
> PR. If it ever revives we can always step back in.
> You have more than run the race to truth about the Scientology scam,
> and your work has produced real results world-wide. I do hope that
> your website can remain up and available, as it can be very effective
> in steering people away from the insidious cult.
> I wish you the very best is your new focus and areas of purposes and
> personal satisfaction whichever games you decide to play in Life.
> God's speed.
>
> - Show quoted text -
Scn is nastier than ever. It is certainly nastier than a year ago. It
is nastier to those outside the cult who oppose it. It is nastier to
its own members in that it has squeezed further vast sums out of them
for Ideal Orgs and then new books and even Sec checked them. It now
has a larger public footprint with its Ideal Orgs and as a result I
expect it to grow. It is a more formidable opponent now than it was a
year ago and I don't understand Arnie's reasoning in saying that it is
not a worthy opponent any more. Try telling that to Keith Henson and
Gerry Armstrong.
Kevin Brady
news:1188632387....@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
I'm in agreement that they are as nasty as ever. I think that they've been
exposed to the point where people are inoculated against them much better
than ever before, and due to the internet, people can get information about
what they're really all about without having to go through their
indoctrination. In that sense, I think they are doomed. You are right,
though, that they are in high gear in terms of physical growth, and I'm sure
they've got a full-court press on in terms of advertising.
It's an information war. They are still trying to prevent people from
having accurate information about them, and having to contend with their
wackiest beliefs no longer a secret, or openly mocked. They are still
trying to make an example out of critical opinion leaders. I think they're
fighting a losing battle, but they are not stopping fighting, that's for
sure. I would expect those who are entangled with them to feel a very nasty
punch towards the end, as they go through death throes. If they lose their
charity status, the gloves will come off in earnest, and the final spasms
will probably be ugly. That's why I like watching them die from a distance.
--
Wrong Reverend K. G. Brady
(415) 341-0022
gomo...@hotmail.com
http://www.myspace.com/clear_objectives
RolandRB
> "RolandRB" <rolandbe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
They are not done-for yet. They are much better set up than before now
they have their Ideal Orgs. Sure, the public aren't flocking in, but
their front groups will find many wealthy people, get rid of the
people in their way, and they can now channel their marks to the Ideal
Orgs which is altogether a better set up than before. There will be an
ancrease in WISE companies with more money flowing to the Church.
There is no good web site out there targetting these front groups and
their recruiting techniques nor any advise on how the staff can get
help to avoid being sent on Scientology courses. Their scam carries on
not only unabated but with greater power in this area.
Eldon
It's true that more could be done to expose front groups (and front
groups for front groups like all that "referral" crap on the Net for
Narconon that got Greg Beha roped in.
However, I don't think they are very successful at making the
transition from front group to Scientology these days.. Once people
find out what it is, they tend to freak out and run away.
Eldon
> "RolandRB" <rolandbe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
I agree that they are. It's just a matter of time, and the
serendipitous arrival date of the next major scandal.
> You are right,
> though, that they are in high gear in terms of physical growth, and I'm sure
> they've got a full-court press on in terms of advertising.
They have invested heavily in real estate, where it is generally quite
difficult to lose money. They also have a certain amount of cheap
quasi-slave labor to do much of the refurbishing work.
They are downsizing to a core batch of seriously robotic devotees as
far as I can see. But If they cannot attract new public, the org
staffers will become increasingly discouraged. At least they still
have sufficient perceptual abilities left to count the number of
bodies in the shop, right? Or so we hope.
Hey, I know... the asthmatic dwarf Davey will soon announce that he's
finally tracked down the Supreme SP of this particular Universe and
has rediscovered sekrit LRH scrolls buried in Hemet, CA. Or maybe
he'll say he has at least narrowed it down to a short of suspects
trying to destroy mankind's only hope. Such as:
*That shithead deserter Kevin Brady?
* Tory/Magoo?
* Patty?
*The LRH wannabe knockoff artiste, Harry Palmer of Avatar fame?
*Roland, the Brit with the morbid sense of humour?
*Barbz the biker gal with the Xenu costume?
*Tom Cruise, who has done more to make Scientology look stupid than
LRH could ever manage to do?
*Roger Gonnet? Moi?
Oh, fuck! This isn't a very short list is it? However, please note
that I gave you the place of honour at the top and put myself at the
bottom just for purposes of target practice.
But never mind, Kevin. That was a joke, not an evil intention. ;-)
>
> It's an information war. They are still trying to prevent people from
> having accurate information about them, and having to contend with their
> wackiest beliefs no longer a secret, or openly mocked. They are still
> trying to make an example out of critical opinion leaders. I think they're
> fighting a losing battle, but they are not stopping fighting, that's for
> sure. I would expect those who are entangled with them to feel a very nasty
> punch towards the end, as they go through death throes. If they lose their
> charity status, the gloves will come off in earnest, and the final spasms
> will probably be ugly.
Kevin, they only have charity status in the US and a few other places.
In most of the world, they were NEVER considered a religion or non-
profit group. They stick a sign over the door that says "church," but
they are officially a business.
Get over agreeing with George Bush Jr. that the United States runs the
whole fucking Galactic Confederacy, OK?
> That's why I like watching them die from a distance.
>
> --
> Wrong Reverend K. G. Brady
> (415) 341-0022
> gomorr...@hotmail.comhttp://www.myspace.com/clear_objectives
Ed
Kevin Brady wrote:
>
> "RolandRB" <rolan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1188632387....@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> > On 1 Sep, 05:17, Michael Pattinson <mpattin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Aug 24, 7:37 pm, Lermanet.com <ArnieLe...@Lermanet.COM> wrote:
>
[snip]
Kevin, what leads you to think they are in high gear re
physical growth? Aside from the MEST of their buildings they are no
way in growth. The argument has often been made here that massive
investment and renovation and upgrading of the org buildings makes
sense both per policy and as an investment strategy. The real estate
value of those buildings is likely to be a sounder investment than
stocks or bonds or other financial vehicles. As for playing with
commodities or gold, DM is said to have gotten burned badly in the
'80s when he got involved with oil. (I think that's in RVY somewhere.)
He should know that he doesn't have a good enough crystal ball view of
the future (nor did LRH) to risk playing with speculating in
commodities markets.
So the choice to invest in the org buildings makes sense both because
they mustn't allow shabby MEST to limit their growth and the buildings
are a sound place to park their capital. I could even speculate that
maybe they have abandoned the SP Building because it's a complete
writeoff as real estate. It would never have any value for anyone but
Scn and they aren't going to have the need to use it any time soon, so
why waste any more money on it until things turn around and they can
rationally foresee needing to use it?
But every objective measure of their stats and anecdotal reports show
that Scn is in a steep decline and has been for quite a few years.
You reappeared here just a few weeks ago, but before that we had
numerous reports from sources who haven't been posting much the last
couple of months, namely Cerridwen, Tory, Phil Scott, the London
picketing group and others, reports on Scn events and observations of
orgs. The picture is clear everywhere that Scn is not getting new
people in. They continue to live off the energy of a few thousand
aging "lifers" who joined up in the '60s and '70s.
Ed
Ed
RolandRB wrote:
>
[snip]
>
> They are not done-for yet. They are much better set up than before now
> they have their Ideal Orgs. Sure, the public aren't flocking in, but
> their front groups will find many wealthy people, get rid of the
> people in their way, and they can now channel their marks to the Ideal
> Orgs which is altogether a better set up than before. There will be an
> ancrease in WISE companies with more money flowing to the Church.
>
> There is no good web site out there targetting these front groups and
> their recruiting techniques nor any advise on how the staff can get
> help to avoid being sent on Scientology courses. Their scam carries on
> not only unabated but with greater power in this area.
This sounds nice in theory, but they have completely lost and
abandoned any pretense of being able to deliver good auditing tech in
any volume. There simply are not many good auditors left anywhere in
the C of $. The kind of kind and decent compassionate person who would
make a good auditor can't take the lies, abuse, and totalitarian
mindset.
Any new people who get lured in through WISE or front groups will
collide with the problem which won't go away and can't be hidden: LRH
was a wacko and current management is even worse; the whole promise of
Scn was they had scientifically resolved everything in the world of
the mind so they could make anyone a happy Clear and OT and this
obviously is not the case now that LRH is dead and isn't making new
discoveries.
If someone with some money gets lured in, Scn is unable to deliver
good auditing and training anymore. Both sides of the bridge are
flawed and everything is polluted by the weird mindset of the SO and
the "roteness" and mechanicalness of the supposedly wonderful product.
Remember that. People used to come into Scn to get their cases handled
or to get training and there were lots of good auditors and
supervisors and some delivery actually occurred. Now they are crippled
in their ability to deliver much of anything.
Ed
Hartley Patterson
> But every objective measure of their stats and anecdotal reports show
> that Scn is in a steep decline and has been for quite a few years.
>
> You reappeared here just a few weeks ago, but before that we had
> numerous reports from sources who haven't been posting much the last
> couple of months, namely Cerridwen, Tory, Phil Scott, the London
> picketing group and others, reports on Scn events and observations of
> orgs.
Please exclude this Department from your generality.
There is nothing in our stats that indicates decline. The Church's
demographic performance worldwide remains one of steady but unspectacular
growth.
There are other areas you can cite where the Church is not doing well -
the mass media outing of Xenu, Hollywood, DM's growing paranoia, the white
elephant building programme, the loss of trained staff, the rise of the
Freezone.
But please don't anyone kid themselves that the Church is dying.
--
ARSCC Demographics Department
http://www.daisy.freeserve.co.uk/stolgy_4.htm
Still looking for 9,900,000 Scientologists (TM)
cultxpt
wrote:
> meta...@pronetisp.net:
> Still looking for 9,900,000 Scientologists (TM)
They have power, as billions of dollars and government officials in
your pocket tend to give you. But they don't have prestige, as being
made fun of on South Park, youtube, and hundreds of other places
shows. I suspect their membership is flat or dwindling too.
I'm pretty much semi-retired from the fray. I figure there's so
much useful information online that anybody who still joins Co$ after
reviewing (or neglecting to review) it, is not on my conscience.
Scientology is still a ruthless dangerous cult, but at least it's a
very well-exposed cult that is an international laughing stock.
Kevin Brady
news:46D9646E...@pronetisp.net...
That was the physical growth I was referring to.
> The argument has often been made here that massive
> investment and renovation and upgrading of the org buildings makes
> sense both per policy and as an investment strategy. The real estate
> value of those buildings is likely to be a sounder investment than
> stocks or bonds or other financial vehicles. As for playing with
> commodities or gold, DM is said to have gotten burned badly in the
> '80s when he got involved with oil. (I think that's in RVY somewhere.)
> He should know that he doesn't have a good enough crystal ball view of
> the future (nor did LRH) to risk playing with speculating in
> commodities markets.
>
> So the choice to invest in the org buildings makes sense both because
> they mustn't allow shabby MEST to limit their growth and the buildings
> are a sound place to park their capital. I could even speculate that
> maybe they have abandoned the SP Building because it's a complete
> writeoff as real estate. It would never have any value for anyone but
> Scn and they aren't going to have the need to use it any time soon, so
> why waste any more money on it until things turn around and they can
> rationally foresee needing to use it?
Agreed. This apparency of wealth and growth are often enough to drive
curiosity and interest.
They use EVERYTHING as an advert, to get in the "raw meat". Even the "bad
press" is welcomed, by them, though they try to "kill the messenger" and sue
the carriers. They simply use it as a way to get their name known, and then
pretend that the bad news is motivated by an intention to stop their "good
message", such that "raw meat" are fed DA materials on the writer of the
story or the media in general. This tactic is as old as the sun.
>
> But every objective measure of their stats and anecdotal reports show
> that Scn is in a steep decline and has been for quite a few years.
Arguable, but I agree that they are altering, for the worse, the quality of
their "make-up".
> You reappeared here just a few weeks ago, but before that we had
> numerous reports from sources who haven't been posting much the last
> couple of months, namely Cerridwen, Tory, Phil Scott, the London
> picketing group and others, reports on Scn events and observations of
> orgs. The picture is clear everywhere that Scn is not getting new
> people in. They continue to live off the energy of a few thousand
> aging "lifers" who joined up in the '60s and '70s.
>
> Ed
I don't know the truth of those reports. Certainly I respect that they
could be true, but Scio has gone through various different waves of
popularity in the past. The question isn't one of whether or not they've
been delivered a blow, it's whether they can turn that blow into expansion,
or whether it was truely damaging to them, long-term. Phil Scotch's
opinions fail to impress me. Axe: grind: etc.
The others I'm less familiar with, although I certainly know their names and
posting history a bit. I haven't interacted with them enough to know their
intent, or to have experienced, myself, whether or not they are willing to
use "false reports" to justify the picture they want to paint.
bmul...@verizon.net
> Kevin Brady wrote:
>
> > "RolandRB" <rolandbe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >http://www.myspace.com/clear_objectives- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
As far as Clearwater is concerned the SP building is getting to be a
bigger PR problem as time goes on. The idea of the building was for
it to dominate downtown Clearwater and it certainly does that. The CoS
has spent a fortune fixing up the outside of all their properties, the
various high rise projects are nearing completion and the
beautification of Cleveland St. is almost finished. The SP building
makes downtown look like a beautiful women who smiles to reveal a
mouth full of rotten teeth. I think they almost have to finish it,
even if they end up selling some of their other properties. If they
don't it is going to have exactly the opposite effect they originally
planed. There has already been speculation in the local press they
are running out of money, they bit off more than they can chew, etc.
Uncle Bruce
Patty Pieniadz
<bmul...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1188678305.5...@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
My sources tell me that it's a staffing problem.
In order to open up the SP building, DM wants to
have at least 100 Super Power Auditors. That's just
not going to happen these days because the SO is
just to ruthless and evil to keep anyone on staff for
any amount of time.
They not only need all these auditors but they need "admin"
personnel to support the tech delivery team of SP Auditors
and run the SP building.
It's just not going to happen. DM has a huge flap on his plate
and absolutely no way to solve it.
He foolishly thinks that buying and renovating "upstat" buildings
will some how overcome all the information that is now available
on the web to people who care to find out about them.
Those new buildings are supposed to "drive in lots of new
business" for the orgs who are then supposed to "send them
to Flag", especially if they have any kind of money.
It's not happening.
DM is pissing into the wind.
Patty
Out_Of_The_Dark
>
> - Show quoted text - <
I agree. The real estate the church has been "buying" has been a
liability to the individual churches and staff are being hounded to
get stats up to cover the mortgages. We've had a couple of posts about
this dilemma and how frazelled staff are becoming because of this.
This purchasing of property is probably a reaction to the current
state of the economy, where sellers are willing to cut their losses
and buyers with some cash doen and a credit line can pick up some
bargains before inflation hits hard.
This set up wth the ortgs getting buildings they cannot afford is in
direct contrast to finance policy the orgs are supposed to be running
on. They are not to incur debt if income cannot sustain the cost. ie:
Phili Org
This overextension of credit became a hugh problem in NY where NYO was
forced into receivershipby the lender because it could not make it's
payments. I can see CoS setting up the purchases, making key staff
personally libel and if it gets paid off, CoS stays on to reap any
future pprofits, but if the org cannot sustain the payments, they
either let them sink and go into receivership or CoS bypasses the
staff and sends in missionaires, which NO org staff want coming in.
If this is the senearo, those illegel registration tactics used on
public members ( who wind up in bankruptsy or borrowing from family)
are being pushed on staff. At least NY Orgs receivership and the posts
I saw here recently suggest this kind of pressure is occuring in
strategicly located orgs.
Martin Hunt
for all you did over the years!
--
Cogito, ergo sum
Out_Of_The_Dark
Hello to you Marty Hunt, another gone but not forgotten alumni of ars.
~ Mary McConnell
Eldon
> <bmulk...@verizon.net> wrote in message
Nice analysis, Patty. In fact, poor DM just doesn't have the same
pathological cult leader charisma that LRH did. He's just a wannabe
little dictator who can't emulate very well. But then again, he gets
to "hang out" with Tom Cruise occasionally. Maybe that makes up for
Mike O'Connor
Gerry Armstrong <ge...@gerryarmstrong.org> wrote:
> The cult's success in jailing Keith Henson? The fact that no US media
> said anything in protest? The fact that not one government person,
> federally, in California or in any other state said anything in
> protest? The cult's motion to reinstate sentences against me? Their
> opening of their org in Berlin? Their purchase of property in cities
> all over the world? Their billions? Their phalanx of lawyers? Their
> success in staying out of court? Their maintaining of their tax
> exemption? Their covey of academic collaborators? The fact that no
> U.S. Government official, no American media, no American attorney, no
> American has spoken up about what the cult is doing right now in Marin
> Superior Court? These recent performances?
They're still going, that's for sure.
But I don't have a problem with anyone who wants to move on, as long as
it's not coerced. No one person is going to end the cult's terrorism. At
some point there will be some event that breaks the camel's back, but
this is a group effort, and that's what it should be. People do what
they can. But the wide tide keeps coming in, the waves keep pounding,
and the cult is eroding. It's a shiny hard candy shell, and I think when
it goes it will collapse like one - suddenly and all at once. And we can
thank everyone who took a part in breaking down the world's largest and
cleverest global scam.
--
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