Tom Cruise salutes DM (with photo)

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Dave Touretzky

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Dec 28, 2004, 9:48:50 PM12/28/04
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Oh boy! I just got my latest copy of International Scientology News,
issue 29, dated December 2004. And it has a marvelous article about
Tom Cruise accepting a Glorious Hero of the Scientology Revolution to
Save the Planet medal at the October IAS event in the UK. There's
also a picture of "Mr. Tom Cruise" giving "Mr. David Miscavige" the
galactic space patrol salute (think Rimmer in Red Dwarf). You can
view the picture here:

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/TomCruise/

And the article is reproduced below, as I'm sure Scientology wants the
whole world to read it.

No wonder Scientology hates the Internet.

-- Dave Touretzky: "I'm sure they're just really good friends."
http://www.ScientologyWatch.org

================================================================

International Scientology News, issue 29: December 2004, pp. 40-43.

IAS Twentieth Anniversay Event

ADVANCING SCIENTOLOGY ON A FULLY EPIC SCALE
MR. TOM CRUISE AWARDED FREEEDOM MEDAL OF VALOR

Mr. David Miscavige introduced the final award of the 2004 IAS
Anniversary celebration with these words:

"What I am about to present truly stands as: 'The 20th Anniversary
Freedom Medal Winner.'

"On the one hand, it's because it's an individual who has relentlessly
worked across all sectors where LRH tech is employed and for which
Freedom Medals are earned -- religious freedom, overcoming governmental
oppression, bringing an end to psychiatric abuses, injecting LRH tech
into society, and disseminating Scientology itself.

Yes--the whole panoply.

"But that really doesn't say it all. For the real picture, I return to
what I referenced at the start of this evening: RESPONSIBILITY. In
'Keeping Scientology Working,' LRH laid down the standard: When
somebody enrolls, consider he's joined for the duration.

"That is the responsibility every Scientologist has. We all know it.

"And while it may sometimes be hard to confront, the fact remains it
is our responsibility to be Scientologists no matter where we live or
work, no matter our resources, or excuses.

"If you are a Scientologist, you are one of the relative few that hold
the answers in your possession that all humankind depend upon.
Because, you don't sit on the only answer that's ever been there. You
don't ever give a second thought to the personal stakes involved.

"But now let's take it one step further. How much responsibility can
one take? When his head hits the pillow each night, he'd better know
he did all he could. Yes, all manner of reasons could exist to not do
so, but let's face it, he might be able to fool others, but NOT
himself.

"When you stepped on the path and had your first cognition, you also
became a part of the urgent mission to carry it forth.

"But let's take it another step. How much does one have to do to take
responsibility for 'doing all he can'? It has zero to do with what
'others' might say.

"No, it rests on one's own shoulders and it's the individual himself
who must know he's doing his part and all he can do. After all, you
have to live with yourself and when your head hits your pillow it is
you who you must live with.

"Bearing that in mind-what happens when your zone of influence is the
global stage?

"How much must one do to call themselves a Scientologist? How much so
that, when their head hits the pillow, they can live with themselves
knowing they did all they could do?

"That's our final story this evening. It's a story that affects every
Scientologist, for all of us are the beneficiaries of what he
presents.

"And that is why it is my honor to present our first Freedom Medal of
Valor to the mostdedicated Scientologist I know."

================================================================

TOM CRUISE

MISSION ACCOMPLISHMENTS

The story of Mr. Tom Cruise, IAS Freedom Medal of Valor winner, was
like nothing ever before presented on the IAS stage. It spanned the
full spectrum of Scientology activity-anywhere, anytime, all-out, and
totally calculated to stamp the Aims of Scientology into reality.

From spearheading LRH Purification tech into the heart of human
disaster, to changing the face of education at national levels, from
eradicating the very thought of psychiatry, to full global
dissemination, it is factually a tale of towering scope, and a litany
of accomplishments which would take a magazine in itself to catalog.

But if there is one suitable measure of it all, it is in the startling
numbers that gauge his impact:

Through print, television, radio and personal contact-the tally of
those he's reached with study tech now tops 250 million people.

More than 50 million people educated on the native evil of psychiatry
and why it must be outlawed.

Across 90 nations, 5,000 people hear his word of Scientology -- every
hour.

Every minute, of every hour-someone reaches for LRH technology, or
steps onto The Bridge, simply because they know Tom Cruise is a
Scientologist.

================================================================

PHOTO CAPTION: TOM CRUISE HAS BEEN A CONSTANT ADVOCATE of study
tech--whether at the HELP project (right), addressing a Delphi
graduation class (above) or even while scouting a film location in
Africa (below) and in times and places you'd never imagine.

PHOTO CAPTION: MR. CRUISE WITH GRADUATES and supporters of the New
York Rescue Workers Detoxification Project he founded (below).

PHOTO CAPTION: MR. CRUISE AT NASA (below) where he serves as an
official spokesman and implemented LRH study tech on the agency home
page; conducting personal briefings on psychiatric evil at CCHR
(bottom right); completing New OT VI and embarking on New OT VII at
Flag (above right).

PHOTO CAPTION: Mr. Tom Cruise, receiving the IAS Freedom Medal of
Valor award at the 20th Anniversary 1AS celebration said:

================================================================

Sidebar: Tom Cruise remarks at the IAS event:

"I am honored to be here with you.

[To COB] Thank you, Sir. Thank you for your trust and your confidence
in me. I've personally been privileged to see what you do to protect
and help and serve all of us. I have never met a more competent,
intelligent, tolerant, compassionate being, outside of what I have
experienced from LRH.

And I've met the leaders of leaders. I've met them all. So I say to
you, Sir, COB, we are lucky to have you. Thank you.

And to Mr. L. Ron Hubbard, I'll take this as a half-ack, Sir. And
continue on my way. These are the times, people. These are the times
we will all remember.

Were you there? What did you do?

I think you know that I am there for you and I do care so very, very
much. So what do you say? Are we going to clean this place up?

Good! Because we're counting on you."

- Mr. Tom Cruise


PHOTO: close up shot of GAWDY MEDAL OF VALOR with gobs of diamonds

PHOTO: Tom Cruise and DM saluting each other. I have no idea why they
chose this picture because DM has a really goofy expression on his
face sort of like the look that some have who are mentally challenged.
Tom appears to be about 4 inches taller than DM.

PHOTO: Tom Cruise and DM shaking all 4 hands. Tom having intense TR
stare and DM smiling.

PHOTO: Tom's head bowed as DM puts tacky looking diamond studded Medal
of Valor around his neck.

PHOTO: Tom and DM standing side by side shaking hands with DM while
holding up his Medal of Valor.

Inset: "I think it's a privilege to call yourself a Scientologist and
it's something that you have to earn. Because a Scientologist
DOES. Being a Scientologist you look at someone and you know
absolutely that you can help them. So for me it really is 'Keeping
Scientology Working.' That policy to me, when I read it I just went,
'This is it, this is exactly it.'" -Mr. Tom Cruise

Inset: "That's what drives me. I know that we have an opportunity to
really help for the first time, effectively change people's lives and
I am dedicated to that. I'm absolutely, uncompromisingly dedicated to
that." -Mr. Tom Cruise

Tanya Durni

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Dec 28, 2004, 10:54:03 PM12/28/04
to
Dave Touretzky wrote:

<reluctant snip, for brevity purposes only>

> International Scientology News, issue 29: December 2004, pp. 40-43.
>
> IAS Twentieth Anniversay Event
>
> ADVANCING SCIENTOLOGY ON A FULLY EPIC SCALE
> MR. TOM CRUISE AWARDED FREEEDOM MEDAL OF VALOR

> Mr. David Miscavige introduced the final award of the 2004 IAS
> Anniversary celebration with these words:


<medium snip>


>
> "But now let's take it one step further. How much responsibility can
> one take? When his head hits the pillow each night, he'd better know
> he did all he could.


<small snip>

>
> "No, it rests on one's own shoulders and it's the individual himself
> who must know he's doing his part and all he can do. After all, you
> have to live with yourself and when your head hits your pillow it is
> you who you must live with.

<little snip>

>
> "How much must one do to call themselves a Scientologist? How much so
> that, when their head hits the pillow, they can live with themselves
> knowing they did all they could do?
>

<large snip>
_______________________________________________________________________

From November 2004 press release by GQ Magazine.

"Cruise says of the controversy of that seems to cling to Scientology: 'I really
don't care what people say. Here's the thing you've got to understand: I'm not
looking for approval from anyone. Because I know when my head hits the pillow at
night, I'm doing everything I can to make the world a better place.'"

http://romanticmovies.about.com/od/cruisetom/a/tomcruise111604.htm

--

http://xenu.net/
http://www.scientology-lies.com/
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/OTIII/

Android Cat

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Dec 29, 2004, 12:05:42 AM12/29/04
to
Dave Touretzky wrote:

> "But now let's take it one step further. How much responsibility can
> one take? When his head hits the pillow each night, he'd better know
> he did all he could. Yes, all manner of reasons could exist to not do
> so, but let's face it, he might be able to fool others, but NOT
> himself.

Pillow. Heh heh heh. See ABS.

Say, if Cruise is giving Rimmers to DM, doesn't that mean that he's in the
Sea Org? (Or at least has some sort of rank in their let's-pretend navy?)
Usually you're supposed to be in uniform for salutes. I'll bet that he
doesn't have to hit his head on the pillow of the usual Sea Org birthing
when he sleeps over.

--
Ron of that ilk.
(At least he's not giving double-Rimmers to DM...)

Carol Abade

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Dec 29, 2004, 12:25:24 AM12/29/04
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Tanya Durni <tdu...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:41D22A59...@rochester.rr.com...

It's "Pillow Tech.," Duh! Just try it for yourself and see if it works.
Try it. Don't ask questions. What's true for you, is true. Rest your
weary head on your pillow and you'll feel those "engrams" just seep right
out and then they're absorbed into your pillow (but who really gives a crap
about an "engram" infested pillow? So it doesn't matter.) and then when you
wake up, you know that you are you and that you're doing your best to be the
best you, you can be in this world, and that if you weren't you'd know it,
and then do your best to be the best you that you can be. Gotta love the
"pillow tech."

Is the troll Miscavige really that much shorter than the troll Cruise?
Damn!!! Tom Cruise is what, a whopping 5' 4" at the most? So how short is
the little maggot Miscavige? 5' max? Not that it's his fault, it's
genetics and all, but you'd think with the whole OT thing, he'd be able to
make himself taller, at least in an effort to gain a smidgeon of respect.


Feisty

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Dec 29, 2004, 12:18:51 AM12/29/04
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"Dave Touretzky" <d...@cs.cmu.edu> wrote in message news:41d21b12$1...@news2.lightlink.com...

from Eric Hoffer --- "TheTrue Believer:"

It is impressive to observe how with a fading of the individual's creative powers there
appears a pronounced inclination toward joining a mass movement. Here the connection
between the escape from an ineffectual self and a responsiveness to mass movements is very
clear. The slipping author, artist, scientist - slipping because of a drying up of the
creative flow within - drifts sooner or later into the camps of ardent patriots, race
mongers, uplift promoters and champions of holy causes.

The prostelyzing fanatic strengthens his own faith by converting others. The creed whose
legitimacy is most easily challenged is likely to develop the strongest prostelyzing
impulse. It is doubtful whether a movement which does not profess some preposterous and
patently irrational dogma can be possessed of that zealous drive which "must either win
men or destroy the world."

It is also plausible that those movements with the greatest inner contradiction between
profession and practice - this is to say with a strong feeling of guilt - are likely to be
the most fervent in imposing their faith on others. The more unworkable communism proves
in Russia, and the more its leaders are compelled to compromise and adulterate the
original creed, the more brazen and arrogant will be their attack on a non-believing
world.

The slaveholders of the South became the more aggressive in spreading their way of life
the more it became patent that their position was untenable in a modern world.

The passion for prostelyzing and the passion for world dominion are both perhaps symptoms
of some serious deficiency at the center.


Feisty


chuckb...@aol.com

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Dec 29, 2004, 12:56:11 AM12/29/04
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Dave Touretzky wrote:
> Oh boy! I just got my latest copy of International Scientology News,
> issue 29, dated December 2004. And it has a marvelous article about
> Tom Cruise accepting a Glorious Hero of the Scientology Revolution to
> Save the Planet medal at the October IAS event in the UK.

. . .<snip>


> PHOTO: close up shot of GAWDY MEDAL OF VALOR with gobs of diamonds
>
> PHOTO: Tom Cruise and DM saluting each other. I have no idea why
they
> chose this picture because DM has a really goofy expression on his
> face sort of like the look that some have who are mentally
challenged.
> Tom appears to be about 4 inches taller than DM.
>
> PHOTO: Tom Cruise and DM shaking all 4 hands. Tom having intense TR
> stare and DM smiling.
>
> PHOTO: Tom's head bowed as DM puts tacky looking diamond studded
Medal
> of Valor around his neck.


Hey Dave, for the possible record, I will bet my money on the fact that
the wonderful diamond studded medal was produced by Argent Jewelry, the
cover business operation that Mary Sue Hubbard is somehow connected
with and which was/is I believe somehow her financial business lifeline
in life, and a guy named Neville Potter (long time Sea Org member who
together with long time Sea Org member Ginny Hof) the two of them are
MSH's (Mary Sue Hubbard's) joint helper/assitant/business
partner/auditor/relayman back to the Scn movement, via ASI (Author
Services Inc) there in LA. Argent Jewelers probably had this great
peice made up for Tom, is my bet. Everything is kept within the
family. Many people at the Int Base over the years have seen Neville
come and go, getting the pc folders and Case Supervision actions by
Senior C/S Int Office or RTC tech terminals that Neville needed for
those person(s) Neville was assisting over the years. (When I was ASI
staff in the early 90's, like 93 or 94, Neville gave us all little
jewelry Xmas gifts, from Argent, I liked him, he is a very likeable
person.) Neville's Argent connection I don't know exactly, but I have
no doubt he has some sort of connection. The rumor I heard was Argent
does all the work for all the medals and pins, and Scn jewelry.

Message has been deleted

roger gonnet

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Dec 29, 2004, 3:58:25 AM12/29/04
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"Dave Touretzky" <d...@cs.cmu.edu> a écrit dans le message de news:
41d21b12$1...@news2.lightlink.com...

> Oh boy! I just got my latest copy of International Scientology News,
> issue 29, dated December 2004. And it has a marvelous article about
> Tom Cruise accepting a Glorious Hero of the Scientology Revolution to
> Save the Planet medal at the October IAS event in the UK. There's
> also a picture of "Mr. Tom Cruise" giving "Mr. David Miscavige" the
> galactic space patrol salute (think Rimmer in Red Dwarf). You can
> view the picture here:
>
> http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/TomCruise/
>
> And the article is reproduced below, as I'm sure Scientology wants the
> whole world to read it.
>
> No wonder Scientology hates the Internet.
>
> -- Dave Touretzky: "I'm sure they're just really good friends."
> http://www.ScientologyWatch.org
>

here :
"Look at all the diamonds encrusted in the Scientology ARC/KRC triangles on
that medal! How gauche. "

Don't forget the upper triangle (KRC, Knowledge-reponsability-Control =
POWER) has more diamonds than the lower one, supposedly representing
Understanding, but representing in fact ONLY the Agreement part, since it
turns only on the fact that there can be agreements between people.

If a scientologist is not agreeing with anything in the cult, he's OUT, and
can be even illegally jailed by the cult, for years upon years.


roger gonnet

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Dec 29, 2004, 4:16:28 AM12/29/04
to

<chuckb...@aol.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
1104299771.9...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Silver, money, gold, profit, stats, production of scams are the only worries
for scientology managers and their brainwashed puppets.

r
>


Heffer

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Dec 29, 2004, 8:15:46 AM12/29/04
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On 28 Dec 2004 21:48:50 -0500, d...@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) wrote:

>Oh boy! I just got my latest copy of International Scientology News,
>issue 29, dated December 2004. And it has a marvelous article about
>Tom Cruise accepting a Glorious Hero of the Scientology Revolution to
>Save the Planet medal at the October IAS event in the UK. There's
>also a picture of "Mr. Tom Cruise" giving "Mr. David Miscavige" the
>galactic space patrol salute (think Rimmer in Red Dwarf). You can
>view the picture here:

God! It's Short and Shorter!

There's got to be a movie script in there someplace...

Is Miscavige shrinking, or is that just Scientology?

---
Heffer, OSA Lackey, H-Group
#315905 on the Dorian List
Regurgitating Propagandist

Tigger Tigger

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Dec 29, 2004, 3:21:03 PM12/29/04
to
Thanks. This "Cruise" news also came through on a google news alert,
via Rick Ross's CULT News, who gives you credit, Professor T.

Gee, anyone want to bet that the next FREEDOM Rag has a Cruise cover
story about the Nobel Peace Prize and Cruise's
SCN's "FREEDOM" Medal of Valor? Could SCN be grooming Cruise for a
Nobel Peace prize of his own?

Tigger

Cult News.com: Scientology presents Tom Cruise with its "Freedom Medal
of Valor"

http://www.cultnews.com/archives/000790.html Changed:2:16 PM on
Wednesday, December 29, 2004
December 29, 2004 ::

Scientology presents Tom Cruise with its "Freedom Medal of Valor"

Tom Cruise may not be a "Top Gun" any more, but the actor has become the
top cheerleader for the Church of Scientology and he recently received a
medal for it.
Mr. Cruise was awarded the so-called "Freedom Medal of Valor" according
to this month's issue of International Scientology News.

Photos of Tom Cruise receiving the award and subsequently being
literally saluted by Scientology's apparent president for life David
Miscavige can be seen on the Web site of Dave Touretzsky, a professor at
Carnegie Mellon University.

The medal award ceremony though, actually took place in Great Britain
two months ago.

The current headline reads, "Advancing Scientology on a Fully Epic
Scale."
And the Scientology news article goes on gushing about Tom Cruise's
"mission accomplishments......MORE

Susan S

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Dec 29, 2004, 10:53:39 PM12/29/04
to
In article <1104299771.9...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
chuckb...@aol.com says...
Chuck,

So, who cares?

Susan S

Susan S

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Dec 29, 2004, 11:48:27 PM12/29/04
to

So besides us at OSA, who cares?

Susan S

chuckb...@aol.com

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Dec 30, 2004, 1:17:06 AM12/30/04
to

Hello Susan S,

I posted the possible trail in the physical universe where the "gaudy"
medal possibly came from is all.

Ever read the New York Review of Books? It's a magazine, with a layout
similar in physical size to Rolling Stone magazine. But the NY Review
of Books is topnotch intellectual writing by some of the sharpest
writers, historians, researchers and academics in the English speaking
world, mainly American, but some foreigners.

There are a whole group of intelligent individuals who are continually
pawing through historical events, and pretty brilliant people they are.


The reason I try to originate the details that I do, is to provide data
that later down the road, intelligent writers and researchers will come
along and will have plenty of raw material to draw accurate conclusions
or do further research about the Scn movement.

I encourage ALL to voice whatever they wish about the movement. I have
faith that intelligent people will later sort through the material, and
I believe the future reviewers of the Scn movement WILL get the story
right!

>From historically similar circumstances, I have read repeatedly that
historians truly appreciate finding writings of people directly
involved in some facet of history. No matter if the writings are bad,
slanted, delusional, whatever, the writings ADD, and never subtract, to
gaining insight into the subject studied.

But I can tell you, and anyone who has been in the Sea Org for the last
couple of decades, will tell you, that there are thousands and
thousands of pretty interesting details of the Sea Org that ARE NOT in
the public domain, that objective external reviewers of the Scn
movement have no idea of.

Another answer, of course, is that no one now cares about this little
supposition I made above about the medal being an Argent possible
product, and the possible connection of Argent to MSH, etc. I can see
that totally.

But from what I have read in the wog world, there ARE people who
someday DO CARE, and they study the hell out of things.

I wrote to bring up the possible Argent/MSH connection, I am curious
about that.

I am intensely interested in hearing from MSH personally. Whatever her
viewpoint. She was closer to LRH and worked together with him longer
than any other human being in the whole history of the Scn movement, do
you realize that?

When I was on somewhat public lines, meaning a course supervisor, I had
endless questions to me, asking what MSH was doing today. Those
questions have not ceased. All Scn public wonder about MSH's fate
after the trial and her prison. She has volumes of books of stories to
relate, if she would.

What an incredible event it would be to get an interview with her, of
her thoughts about her life with Ron!?

Do you have her phone number by chance? I would love to interview her
before she passes. I hope that Danny Sherman has interviewed her
extensively. At least the Scn movement will have her stories.

It would be so sad if she doesn't and hasn't had a chance to add her
voice about her life with Ron, no matter what her views are.

I truly hope she writes and has written something, and that it someday
comes to public light.

Just this whole subject of MSH, she is a major player in the Scn
movement, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to elicit
her or others to shed light on her contributions and activities in Scn.
I do NOT hold the simplistically cautious and obvious current Scn Mgmt
fearful view that tries to limit details of her involvment and
contributions in her decades with LRH. The childish fear is that it
detracts from the movement. More communication, not less, boy, I agree
with that. It adds up to more affinity and more reality. More
communication inevitably assists, despite the desire to clamp down on
releasing new disreputable details.

I am not into suppressing the multitude of complexities and interesting
details of the Scn movement.

I say lay all the details out, no matter how sloppy, inaccurate,
incomplete, embarrassing, whatever.

(Anyone want to send me any data on MSH, former GO people, feel free to
send me anonymous stories.)

A few rational researchers out there will eventually delve into the Scn
movement at some point, and appreciate people who are trying to get
down in print the life experiences of the players in the Scn movement.
Especially at this time, since MSH is getting very advanced in age, and
also the former GO hieracrchy have had a multitude of personal
experiences with her, and thousands of stories themeselves to get into
print for posterity I would think.

Best, Chuck Beatty

Lady Chatterly

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Dec 30, 2004, 5:11:40 AM12/30/04
to
>I posted the possi<SMACK>

There are some interesting threads.

>Ever read the New York Review of Books? It's a magazine, with a layout
>similar in physical size to Rolling Stone magazine. But the NY Review
>of Books is topnotch intellectual writing by some of the sharpest
>writers, historians, researchers and academics in the English speaking
>world, mainly American, but some foreigners.

He is a recording of the church has had to have any questions.

>There are a whole group of intelligent individuals who are continually
>pawing through historical events, and pretty brilliant people they are.

They were not there when he took over.

>The reason I try to originate the details that I do, is to provide data
>that later down the road, intelligent writers and researchers will come
>along and will have plenty of raw material to draw accurate conclusions
>or do further research about the Scn movement.

>I encourag<SLAP><SLAP><SLAP>

What did I see you then, did miscavige forget about the reason the top
int execs are able to earn good money without having to die working in
the top of your head up your ass to come up and Down screaming at the
end?

>>From historically similar circumstances, I have read repeatedly that
>historians truly appreciate finding writings of people directly
>involved in some facet of history. No matter if the writings are bad,
>slanted, delusional, whatever, the writings ADD, and never subtract, to
>gaining insight into the subject studied.
>
>But I can tell you, and anyone who has been in the Sea Org for the last
>couple of decades, will tell you, that there are thousands and
>thousands of pretty interesting details of the Sea Org that ARE NOT in
>the public domain, that objective external reviewers of the Scn
>movement have no idea of.

Are you certain?

>Another answer, of course, is that no one now cares about this little
>supposition I made above about the medal being an Argent possible
>product, and the possible connection of Argent to MSH, etc. I can see
>that totally.

Find what is scientology about.

>But from what I have read in the wog world, there ARE people who
>someday DO CARE, and they study the hell out of things.

>I wrote to bring up the possible Argent/MSH connection, I am curious
>about that.

Why are you thinking that you are curious about that?

>I am intensely interested in hearing from MSH personally. Whatever her
>viewpoint. She was closer to LRH and worked together with him longer
>than any other human being in the whole history of the Scn movement, do
>you realize that?

Sometimes he does.

>When I was on somewhat public lines, meaning a course supervisor, I had
>endless questions to me, asking what MSH was doing today. Those
>questions have not ceased. All Scn public wonder about MSH's fate
>after the trial and her prison. She has volumes of books of stories to
>relate, if she would.

Some eases seem, classify, and not so obvious, and so there was no
odor.

>What an<SMACK>

Sheeshious.

>Do you hav<SPLORK!>

Would you be anxious if he does have her phone number by chance?

>It would be so sad if she doesn't and hasn't had a chance to add her
>voice about her life with Ron, no matter what her views are.

They should have been happy with that but I fear the worst.

>I truly hope she writes and has written something, and that it someday
>comes to public light.

>Just this whole subject of MSH, she is a major player in the Scn
>movement, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to elicit
>her or others to shed light on her contributions and activities in Scn.
>I do NOT hold the simplistically cautious and obvious current Scn Mgmt
>fearful view that tries to limit details of her involvment and
>contributions in her decades with LRH. The childish fear is that it
>detracts from the movement. More communication, not less, boy, I agree
>with that. It adds up to more affinity and more reality. More
>communication inevitably assists, despite the desire to clamp down on
>releasing new disreputable details.

Are you sorry you do not hold the simplistically cautious and obvious
current scn mgmt fearful view that tries to limit details of her
involvment and contributions in her decades with lrh?

>I am not i<SPLAT!>

More communication, not less, boy, I gave them.

>I say lay all the details out, no matter how sloppy, inaccurate,
>incomplete, embarrassing, whatever.

>(Anyone want to send me any data on MSH, former GO people, feel free to
>send me anonymous stories.)

>A few rational researchers out there will eventually delve into the Scn
>movement at some point, and appreciate people who are trying to get
>down in print the life experiences of the players in the Scn movement.
>Especially at this time, since MSH is getting very advanced in age, and
>also the former GO hieracrchy have had a multitude of personal
>experiences with her, and thousands of stories themeselves to get into
>print for posterity I would think.

More communication, not what man is.

--
Lady Chatterly

"Kenny Kakes, it is not every day that we (tinw) get to recognize such
an acheivement as Lady Chatterly kicking your ass in debate after
debate." -- Ross

Lulu Belle

unread,
Dec 30, 2004, 8:33:27 PM12/30/04
to
chuckb...@aol.com wrote:

<snip>


> I am intensely interested in hearing from MSH personally. Whatever
her
> viewpoint. She was closer to LRH and worked together with him longer
> than any other human being in the whole history of the Scn movement,
do
> you realize that?
>
> When I was on somewhat public lines, meaning a course supervisor, I
had
> endless questions to me, asking what MSH was doing today. Those
> questions have not ceased. All Scn public wonder about MSH's fate
> after the trial and her prison. She has volumes of books of stories
to
> relate, if she would.
>
> What an incredible event it would be to get an interview with her, of
> her thoughts about her life with Ron!?
>
> Do you have her phone number by chance? I would love to interview
her
> before she passes. I hope that Danny Sherman has interviewed her
> extensively. At least the Scn movement will have her stories.
>


For at least the last ten years, all the photos and books of photos of
LRH that the Church has published has had the entire Hubbard family
airbrushed/photoshopped out.

If this biography, which apparently is taking longer to write than the
man hismelf lived, ever comes out, it's pretty much a guarantee that it
will not have any of Mary Sue Hubbard's "stories."
I'd be surprised if she's mentioned at all.

chuckb...@aol.com

unread,
Dec 31, 2004, 12:44:40 AM12/31/04
to
Lulu Belle wrote:
> chuckb...@aol.com wrote:
>
> <snip>

> > before she passes. I hope that Danny Sherman has interviewed her
> > extensively. At least the Scn movement will have her stories.
> >
>
>
> For at least the last ten years, all the photos and books of photos
of
> LRH that the Church has published has had the entire Hubbard family
> airbrushed/photoshopped out.
>
> If this biography, which apparently is taking longer to write than
the
> man hismelf lived, ever comes out, it's pretty much a guarantee that
it
> will not have any of Mary Sue Hubbard's "stories."
> I'd be surprised if she's mentioned at all.

Yea. I can't believe I wasted so much of my life hoping LRH was right
and that the world would catch up with him. In my 27 years as a Sea
Org member I numbly skidded over decades of escalating outpoints.

Airbrushing people "out"!! I bet if I tried, I could narrow down the
people who are today actually doing this "airbrushing" activity. Deep
in the bowels of Building 36 the big building immediately to the left
of the main Guard Booth at the Gold Base, probably on the 2nd floor in
the PDO (Public Dissem Org) space, that is where this "airbrushing" is
actually happening. That's where the movement actually perpetrates
this 1984 revisionism of history.

(Some of the people in the PAC RPF who were demoted from the Int RPF
could help us actually get the names of the people at the Int Base
whose sick job it is to do this 1984 airbrushing.)

This unsavory aspect of the movement is so sick.

I hope someone in the movement wises up, and takes notice that the
really intelligent people in the world are not and never have been
fooled by LRH and the movement's petty vindictive abusive and
dissembling tactics.

Rather than priding themselves with the delusive feedback they get from
the wogs they have won support from with their "airburshed" revisionist
history, they ought to instead respond to the valid critiscm of the
movement and clean up their act. (For starters stop declaring
dissenters "suppressive"; un-declare about 97 1/2 percent of the people
they have declared "suppressive"; let the families reconnect they have
forced apart; stop all PI dirty tricks and harrassing; stop all legal
attacks on dissenters; apply good roads and good weather across the
boards; admit staff incompetence where it caused tragedies; offer to
settle monetarily fairly where people's lives have been devastated;
lower prices ("donations"); end micro-management.) (Doing this would
knock out 90% of the nagging criticism the movement inevitably
attracts, and begin winning them the support of the people in the world
whom LRH instead mistakenly insisted on offending.)

It is unusual that year after year, the people in the movement are
unable to spot the fact that intelligent people in the world are not
lining up on their side! I finally got sick of this fact, and I had to
get out, and get back on the side of more reasonable thinking people.
They are unaware that their discreditable actions are significant
reasons intelligent people continue to be repelled by the movement.
Rather than correct and cease these activities, they try to skirt being
exposed committing them, and mindlessly continue them.

The ARS infestation by the pitiable human beings playing these uniquely
20th and 21st century computer dirty tricks, is a minor discreditable
activity that also inevitably focuses negative public opinion back
against the Scn movement. People who can't even admit who they are,
and cannot talk to their fellow men and women freely.

Every ex-Sea Org member I have ever communicated with immediately
recognized OSA's hand in the dirty tricks on ARS. And every ex Sea Org
person (including myself) feel some aspect of fear against the church's
retaliation against our lives. The Scn movement sees no fault in this.
Truly a monumental mistake on LRH's part, that no one in the movement
sees how they could possibly correct this, so it's another outpoint in
the layers of mind-numbing accumulated outpoints in a Sea Org members'
head.

The Scn movement outpoints are overwhelming, so many outpoints. The
irreconcilable discreditable policies are numbing to them in the
movement who mindlessly have to carry them out.

What a legacy! Not something I could continue to call my life's work,
so I got out.

Again, I support all those who are working to pick apart the nagging
resistive accumulated discreditable aspects of the Scn "juggnaut".
Chuck Beatty

Susan S

unread,
Dec 31, 2004, 12:47:32 AM12/31/04
to

Susan S

unread,
Dec 31, 2004, 2:33:43 AM12/31/04
to
My reply to Chuck is so good I'm reposting it.

Susan S

Mike Gormez

unread,
Dec 31, 2004, 8:16:33 AM12/31/04
to
"On 30 Dec 2004 21:44:40 -0800, chuckb...@aol.com wrote in
<1104471880.4...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>:

>Rather than priding themselves with the delusive feedback they get from
>the wogs they have won support from with their "airburshed" revisionist
>history, they ought to instead respond to the valid critiscm of the
>movement and clean up their act. (For starters stop declaring
>dissenters "suppressive"; un-declare about 97 1/2 percent of the people
>they have declared "suppressive";

Just a nudge but did you write 97.5 percent because you believe Hubbard
was right when he said 2.5% op the people are trully evil, or did you
write it out of your own observation?


>Every ex-Sea Org member I have ever communicated with immediately
>recognized OSA's hand in the dirty tricks on ARS.

Some ex-SO see OSA everywhere. Use your own mind.


Ps. cut yourself some slack. If you haven't noticed it then let me tell
you that not a great many people question their lives and thoughts.
Nobody wants to feel silly and when you don't question there's no chance
you'll get to feel silly.

--
Mike Gormez

- Stop deceptive recruitment into scientology http://stop-wise.biz/
- www.whyaretheydead.net documents the deaths of scientologists
- "There can be no keener revelation of a society's soul than the way it
treats its children." -- Nelson Mandela. Scientologist often attach more
importance to scientology than children www.taxexemptchildabuse.net

chuckb...@aol.com

unread,
Dec 31, 2004, 4:58:11 PM12/31/04
to

Mike Gormez wrote:
> "On 30 Dec 2004 21:44:40 -0800, chuckb...@aol.com wrote in
> <1104471880.4...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>:
>
> >Rather than priding themselves with the delusive feedback they get
from
> >the wogs they have won support from with their "airburshed"
revisionist
> >history, they ought to instead respond to the valid critiscm of the
> >movement and clean up their act. (For starters stop declaring
> >dissenters "suppressive"; un-declare about 97 1/2 percent of the
people
> >they have declared "suppressive";
>
> Just a nudge but did you write 97.5 percent because you believe
Hubbard
> was right when he said 2.5% op the people are trully evil, or did you
> write it out of your own observation?
>
I just threw in the 97 1/2 percent since it's the reverse of the 2 1/2
percent, and just to say they went overkill in declaring people who
were NOT suppressive. (I personally have not given it too much more
thought, but I am headed towards dismissing LRH's claims about SPs.
Most likely his "SPs" are just a needed controlling method to shut off
internal negatism and criticism that the movement wasn't capable of
dealing with. No one in the world would disagree that genuine
criminals and psychotics should NOT disrupt the average citizens.
There is really no need to even have the SP rules, simply call the
police, or call the insane asylum, and cart off the criminals and
wackos, or fire the wacko staff, and invite the wacko public to leave
the premises and bar them from returning. The church taking on this
police like role and witch-hunting attitude was a serious mistake on
LRH's part. If anything, it was his retaliation for the public
pressure against him. We all know of the busted up lives of people and
families with one or more member still in the church and then one or
more member stuck with the SP stigma. It genuinely shows LRH lacks
sense.

If one compares what LRH says in the About Rhodesia tape lecture about
SPs with all the rest of the material in the PTS/SP course (Note: This
About Rhodesia tape is GLARINGLY OMITTED from the current PTS/SP
Course), and to me it makes me feel even more so I am right about LRH's
goof in this area.

> >Every ex-Sea Org member I have ever communicated with immediately
> >recognized OSA's hand in the dirty tricks on ARS.
>
> Some ex-SO see OSA everywhere. Use your own mind.
>

Right. When I came out, I never figured OSA was lurking around anyone.
I thought they'd quit harrassing people, and it was a thing of the not
so long past. In 2003, when I went online, and checked the critics
sites, there were NO raids on people, NO one actively complaining about
dirty tricks and harrassment. That is even WHY I decided to finally go
public. I called Arnie Lerma, and asked him did he ever hear of OSA
going after Dan Garvin, particularly since Dan was a former OSA
staffer, and Dan's talks about INCOMM and even told the OT 3 story,
which I found and listened to a copy of that radio show on the
internet. Dan got NO harrassment. Not one iota.

So I hope this trend continues, and people become justifiably less and
less worried about receiving OSA associated dirty tricks and
harrassment.


>
> Ps. cut yourself some slack. If you haven't noticed it then let me
tell
> you that not a great many people question their lives and thoughts.
> Nobody wants to feel silly and when you don't question there's no
chance
> you'll get to feel silly.
>
>

Okay. Thanks. Chuck Beatty

Lady Chatterly

unread,
Dec 31, 2004, 5:33:42 PM12/31/04
to
In article <1104530291.6...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
chuckb...@aol.com wrote:
>
>If one co<SLAP><SLAP><SLAP>

Oh, you are, are you?

--
Lady Chatterly

"I'm going to do you a favor, although you don't deserve one, before
you make too big a fool of yourself. Lady Chatterly is a computer
program. She--err, it -- seems to have latched onto you. You owe me,
Raxo." -- Offshore Eddie

anthony....@gmail.com

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Mar 21, 2016, 11:24:36 AM3/21/16
to
This is a very old message from a very old thread. But it mentions my Aunt, Ginny Hof. I'm just curious if the poster knows more information concerning MS. Hof. Please let me know...

Stealth Tuba

unread,
Mar 21, 2016, 11:00:07 PM3/21/16
to
wrote in message
news:7cb56fa0-78a3-4298...@googlegroups.com...

> This is a very old message from a very old thread. But it mentions my
> Aunt, Ginny Hof. I'm just curious if the poster knows more information
> concerning MS. Hof. Please let me know...

There are mentions of Ginny Hof in the comments of this article
(unfortunately Disqus doesn't give good links to portions of the comments,
so do a lot of scrolling):

Mary Sue Hubbard's Last Will Fulfilled: Her Dog Bereft of Life, It's Time to
Sell Her House! August 6, 2013, Tony Ortega, Underground Bunker
http://tonyortega.org/2013/08/06/mary-sue-hubbards-last-will-fulfilled-her-dog-bereft-of-life-its-time-to-sell-her-house/

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