Bob Minton questions
Paul Sitko
I have a couple friends that I've lost to the Church of Scientology
and I am fairly familiar with the abuses of the church (read Piece of
Blue Sky, Messiah or Madman, etc.) I just started reading ARS again
after somewhat of a hiatus, and was shocked to hear everyone having so
much negative stuff to say against Bob Minton. Last I remembered he
was one of the good guys. I'm trying to sort out exactly what has
happened and the nearest I can make out is that he's striking some
sort of deal with the church? Can someone clarify this situation for
me? Are there existing online resources that explain the story. I find
the stuff I'm reading about Bob now to be very discouraging and I'd
like to know what the real story is.
Thanks a lot for your time.
ptsc
Take it right from the horse's mouth:
http://www.operatingthetan.com/bob/
That is all the testimony relating to this bizarre reversal.
Other people will post other URLs. There's no quick and easy
guide because it's over 1600 pages that has just recently been
dumped here and everyone's still arguing about it.
My short version: Bob and Stacy have become traitors and
are now destroying everything they once fought for.
ptsc
Phil Scott
The cult apparently has bob by the balls on a tax issue, the brought Monica
Yingling, heavy weight washington DC insider to talk to Bob... Monica is sitting
at the cults table next to machine gun Ableson the mafia attorney for the cult
(one should begin connecting the dots maybe), bad enough to bankrupt him,
accordingly he and stacy have decided to sing the cults tune, and say things
that set critics up for latter assaults by the scientology, such as 'its a
fraternity' an attempt to cluster all critics together so the criminal cult can
try to sue random posters to ARS as a group...
This has been the cults attempt since day one, 10 years ago. So far they have
failed. Ops came in posing as critics trying to form a 'critics association' or
whatever... few of the general public and critics of the cult were dumb enough
to go for that...there is very little agreement on any of the issues regardless.
more complete insanity from the cult. Unless freedom of expression in public
is outlawed.
Others think it might have been a set up from the start, noticing that some who
escaped the CoS and a few victims were not helped by the LMT even after they
asked, others shunned by the LMT, Stacy and Bob such as myself, and Bob making
exceedingly vicious remarks on the NG and on IRC chat ....to the extent that
many critics began distancing themselves.. behaving in a way as to discredit
critics and to compromise those he had associated himself with via gratuities
and funding.
Regardless. The expose goes on, there are more critical web sites than ever,
and the lid is clean off of the cults Microsoft and Oracle infiltrations and
spysware etc (see SF Chronicle sunday 5/19/02 front page, its about Oracle but
doesnt mention the USGO staff pushing the software to State govts. The
Sacramento News and Review article from late last year, addresses that issue and
the cults tight association with attorney general Lockyer..and names the cultie
company pushing the Oracle data base spyware.... the Article is by Jim Evans,
who is planning to leave now for some strange reason)
Phil Scott
(415) 927 7573
JimDBB
>From: pah...@yahoo.com (Paul Sitko)
>Date: 5/20/02 1:01 PM Central Daylight Time
Many of us are as confused as you are and are trying to sort it out. There is a
lot of wild speculation and condemnation of Bob and Stacy but many of us refuse
to comdemn or comment until we know what is actually going on.
JImdbb
Zinj
nym DOT cryptofortress DOT com> says...
<snip - noted because of the new lamentable tendency by ARS posters to
snip *without* mentioning it>
>
> My short version: Bob and Stacy have become traitors and
> are now destroying everything they once fought for.
>
> ptsc
>
I don't even have much of an argument with your opinion here, although
the word 'traitor' begs the question of 'traitor to whom', and
'destroying everything they once fought for' may or may not be
hyperbolic.
The *problem* I see is the hysterical marketing effort to demand a
consensus of opinion from ARS readers, who failing to emulate your own
obscene frothings, are branded themselves, 'traitors'.
What useful purpose is being served here? Are you under the impression
that ARS is an important element of the trial? That the judge will
count how many people are willing to repent and admire Deana's years
long shrieking about 'The Bob'?
That your own hydrophobic obscenities will cow anyone less rabid into
allowing a single, uniform opinion of all ARS participants to be
presented to the judge and court as our 'vote' as to what she should
do?
What are you promising yourself from the bloodletting and marketing?
Something in the court? Something for the Lisa case?
Or is it just some delusional exalted status gain in the non-existent
'critical community'?
Zinj
--
At least my insults are backed up by instances of bad behavior - Deana
M. Holmes
arnie lerma - www.lermanet.com
The real story will likely have different versions
But I think I'll wait to see what the judge's final ruling and
findings actually are.
till then theres plenty of speculation...
try http://www.lermanet.com/reference/postedapril20.htm
163 [ Q - is judge shaeffer A= stacy ]
20 A That was when Bob signed the affidavit that said
21 there was no agreement. I believe that was the same time as
22 Liebreich signed an affidavit that there was no agreement.
23 And I think it was shortly after that that Mr. Dandar filed
24 a motion attacking those two pleadings -- I mean, those two
25 affidavits, asserting that there was no agreement.
0164
1 Well, you know, I was starting to feel like
2 Mr. Minton was getting set up to be royally shafted.
3 Q Good choice of words. I had another one. I was
4 waiting to see if you could find --
5 A I was thinking of something else.
6 Q I'll bet you were.
616
1 that point.
2 THE COURT: What she has said, I believe,
3 Counselor, is what she has testified to, until such
4 time as she sets the record straight, it's her
5 testimony, they'll not talk settlement. The first
6 step, affidavit; second step, what we are going
7 through here. Third step, what is going on in Judge
8 Baird's. That is what she perceives is required for
9 her and for Mr. Minton to set the record straight.
10 Then they can say they have already done that, now
11 they want to sit down and talk about settling the
12 case.
13 Is that it?
14 THE WITNESS: Yes, your Honor.
Ferengi + Borg = Scientology
I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speak.
The only thing that always works in scientology are its lawyers
The internet is the liberty tree of the new millennium
Secrets are the mortar binding lies as bricks together into prisons for the mind
http://www.lermanet.com/grifters.htm - mentioned 4 January 2000 in
The Washington Post's - 'Reliable Source' column re "Scientologist with no HEAD"
You want Bigots? http://members.cox.net/bwarr2/Movie2.html
ptsc
www.lermanet.com) wrote:
>20 A That was when Bob signed the affidavit that said
>21 there was no agreement. I believe that was the same time as
>22 Liebreich signed an affidavit that there was no agreement.
>23 And I think it was shortly after that that Mr. Dandar filed
>24 a motion attacking those two pleadings -- I mean, those two
>25 affidavits, asserting that there was no agreement.
>0164
And the Judge agrees.
Pull your head out of your ass and shake the shit out of your ears!
THERE WAS NO AGREEMENT.
15 Q Let's go to the section you entitle "Secret
16 Agreement." This is the agreement you allege exists
17 between the Estate of Lisa McPherson and whom?
[Then OSA whore Stacy gets sassy.]
18 A Are you really going to say it doesn't?
[Judge Schaeffer immediately jumps in to smack down the bitch.]
19 MR. DANDAR: Move to strike.
20 THE COURT: Granted.
21 I'm going to tell you it doesn't. I'm going
22 to tell you that there's no court in this world,
23 including this Court or any other court, that is going
24 to suggest that whatever was going on here was an
25 agreement. So there.
ptsc
arnie lerma - www.lermanet.com
cryptofortress DOT com> wrote:
>On Mon, 20 May 2002 20:29:09 GMT, ale...@nospam.bellatlantic.net (arnie lerma -
>www.lermanet.com) wrote:
>
>>20 A That was when Bob signed the affidavit that said
>>21 there was no agreement. I believe that was the same time as
>>22 Liebreich signed an affidavit that there was no agreement.
>>23 And I think it was shortly after that that Mr. Dandar filed
>>24 a motion attacking those two pleadings -- I mean, those two
>>25 affidavits, asserting that there was no agreement.
>>0164
>
>And the Judge agrees.
>
>Pull your head out of your ass and shake the shit out of your ears!
I see you have been infected with terminal crainiel rectal inversion
fixation from Deanna homes?
the net proceeds were supposed to goto some vehicle to expose
scientology and assit exiting members.... that was understood from
long time ago
That there was no written and legally binding agreement on paper with
acres of fine printon the bottom is understood without a problem.
Did you have a point?
from what I see Bob is still telling the truth and was shafted by
folks he thought were his freinds....
That hasnt changed....
Your sky is falling rhetoric is starting to permutate as needed though
arnie lerma
http://www.lermanet.com/reference/postedapril20.htm
163 [ Q - is judge shaeffer A= stacy ]
20 A That was when Bob signed the affidavit that said
21 there was no agreement. I believe that was the same time as
22 Liebreich signed an affidavit that there was no agreement.
23 And I think it was shortly after that that Mr. Dandar filed
24 a motion attacking those two pleadings -- I mean, those two
25 affidavits, asserting that there was no agreement.
0164
1 Well, you know, I was starting to feel like
2 Mr. Minton was getting set up to be royally shafted.
3 Q Good choice of words. I had another one. I was
4 waiting to see if you could find --
5 A I was thinking of something else.
6 Q I'll bet you were.
>
>THERE WAS NO AGREEMENT.
>
> 15 Q Let's go to the section you entitle "Secret
> 16 Agreement." This is the agreement you allege exists
> 17 between the Estate of Lisa McPherson and whom?
>
>[Then OSA whore Stacy gets sassy.]
>
> 18 A Are you really going to say it doesn't?
>
>[Judge Schaeffer immediately jumps in to smack down the bitch.]
>
> 19 MR. DANDAR: Move to strike.
> 20 THE COURT: Granted.
> 21 I'm going to tell you it doesn't. I'm going
> 22 to tell you that there's no court in this world,
> 23 including this Court or any other court, that is going
> 24 to suggest that whatever was going on here was an
> 25 agreement. So there.
>
>ptsc
163 [ Q - is judge shaeffer A= stacy ]
20 A That was when Bob signed the affidavit that said
21 there was no agreement. I believe that was the same time as
22 Liebreich signed an affidavit that there was no agreement.
23 And I think it was shortly after that that Mr. Dandar filed
24 a motion attacking those two pleadings -- I mean, those two
25 affidavits, asserting that there was no agreement.
0164
1 Well, you know, I was starting to feel like
2 Mr. Minton was getting set up to be royally shafted.
3 Q Good choice of words. I had another one. I was
4 waiting to see if you could find --
5 A I was thinking of something else.
6 Q I'll bet you were.
Hartley Patterson
> I just started reading ARS again
> after somewhat of a hiatus, and was shocked to hear everyone having so
> much negative stuff to say against Bob Minton. Last I remembered he
> was one of the good guys. I'm trying to sort out exactly what has
> happened and the nearest I can make out is that he's striking some
> sort of deal with the church?
That would seem to be the case, and he says he is withdrawing as an active
critic. This is not unprecedented, however...
Court transcripts of the pre-trial hearings (on the Lisa McPherson civil
case) indicate that Minton and Stacey Brooks have fallen out with most
their former allies and are testifying against them. They claim that some
of their previous testimony was false and blame Ken Dandar the lawyer
pursuing the case for this. It is widely believed that the CoS have
finally dug up enough dirt on Minton to neutralize him.
This one will run for some time yet. Don't expect much in the way of
reasoned debate on ARS for a while, people are too upset - I expect this
posting will get flamed because I've got some detail wrong or not put
enough rude words in.
It seems likely that the case will go ahead anyway next month.
On a more positive note, affairs elsewhere have not been so favourable for
the CoS.
The CoS managed a major footbullet when the Google search engine fought
off an attempt to remove links from it to Operation Clambake.
Wollersheim of FACTNET finally got his dimes when the CoS suddenly gave up
and paid the $8.7 million they owed him in his marathon legal case.
Finally the CoS was fined in Paris for data protection violations, though
they were acquitted on more serious charges.
You can read more about these in 'ARS in Review' or by locating newspaper
articles about them via Search Engines.
--
"I think of my beautiful city in flames"
http://www.newsfrombree.co.uk
A medieval spreadsheet, enturbulating entheta and how to outrun
Thread.
ptsc
www.lermanet.com) wrote:
>On Mon, 20 May 2002 16:40:11 -0400, ptsc <ptsc AT nym DOT
>cryptofortress DOT com> wrote:
>>On Mon, 20 May 2002 20:29:09 GMT, ale...@nospam.bellatlantic.net (arnie lerma -
>>www.lermanet.com) wrote:
>>>20 A That was when Bob signed the affidavit that said
>>>21 there was no agreement. I believe that was the same time as
>>>22 Liebreich signed an affidavit that there was no agreement.
>>>23 And I think it was shortly after that that Mr. Dandar filed
>>>24 a motion attacking those two pleadings -- I mean, those two
>>>25 affidavits, asserting that there was no agreement.
>>>0164
>>And the Judge agrees.
>>Pull your head out of your ass and shake the shit out of your ears!
>I see you have been infected with terminal crainiel rectal inversion
>fixation from Deanna homes?
No, I see that unlike you I CAN READ so when the Judge says
there is no agreement, I can actually understand that this means
NO AGREEMENT.
>the net proceeds were supposed to goto some vehicle to expose
>scientology and assit exiting members.... that was understood from
>long time ago
20 THE COURT: Granted.
21 I'm going to tell you it doesn't. I'm going
22 to tell you that there's no court in this world,
23 including this Court or any other court, that is going
24 to suggest that whatever was going on here was an
25 agreement. So there.
So if there was NO AGREEMENT then when Dandar told witnesses
to say there was NO AGREEMENT it couldn't be perjury now could
it, like you libelers like saying?
ptsc
Dave Bird
<pah...@yahoo.com> writes:
>I have (very loosely) followed ARS on and off for a couple years now.
>I have a couple friends that I've lost to the Church of Scientology
>and I am fairly familiar with the abuses of the church (read Piece of
>Blue Sky, Messiah or Madman, etc.) I just started reading ARS again
>after somewhat of a hiatus, and was shocked to hear everyone having so
>much negative stuff to say against Bob Minton. Last I remembered he
>was one of the good guys.
He has sold out to the Cult of $cum and betrayed the very people he
once helped, tried to sink their case over their relative murdered
by CofS and probably given up names of people who sought help. Even
under blackmail pressure, you can't go much lower than that.
In article<3ce93e14...@news.tdl.com>, Phil Scott
<phils...@hotmail.com> writes:
>The cult apparently has bob by the balls on a tax issue, the brought Monica
>Yingling, heavy weight washington DC insider to talk to Bob... Monica is
>sitting
>at the cults table next to machine gun Ableson
and no doubt "Prophet Abraham" (gave his daughter up for a
burnt offering in the transformer vault) Moxon hanging around
in the background somewhere.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In article<MPG.1752ea058...@news2.lightlink.com>, Zinj
<zinj...@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>> My short version: Bob and Stacy have become traitors and
>> are now destroying everything they once fought for.
>>
>> ptsc
>>
>
>I don't even have much of an argument with your opinion here, although
>the word 'traitor' begs the question of 'traitor to whom',
To the murdered woman's relatives if he sinks their civil case?
--
"Mr Minton was questioned by attorney's for the dead woman's family
on three areas where the cult may have threatened him with lawsuit
or prosecution, but there was only one upon which he took the fifth
amendment: whether Cof$ threatened to report him for tax evasion."
alt.religion.scientology<tTDpR5Il...@xemu.demon.co.uk>2002apr28
All the court documents are at: http://www.operatingthetan.com/bob/
Tigger
>The real story will likely have different
> versions But I think I'll wait to see what
> the judge's final ruling and findings
> actually are.
> till then theres plenty of speculation...
> try >http://www.lermanet.com/reference/post
>edapril20.htm
Wow I will second that. You can find "plenty of speculation" at
http://www.lermanet.com/reference/post
>edapril20.htm and some slander and a few lies too. But I wouldn't go
to the mouth of a jackass.
Do like ptsc says:
"Take it right from the horse's mouth:
http://www.operatingthetan.com/bob/
That is all the testimony relating to this bizarre reversal."
Tigger
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I DON'T GIVE THEM HELL. I JUST TELL THEM THE TRUTH AND THEY THINK IT'S
HELL."'
Harry S. Truman (GIVE 'EM HELL, HARRY)
U. S. President
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tigger
>the net proceeds were supposed to goto
> some vehicle to expose scientology and
> assit exiting members.... that was
> understood from long time ago.
That was something that Bob Minton suggested a long time ago (1997) when
he was in charge of Factnet. From what I saw, Minton "suggested" it
to Ken Dandar, who told (I think) Lisa's aunt who thought it sounded
like the right thing to do since Lisa's mom, Fannie McPherson, had
wanted people to be educated about Scn. so that other daughters and sons
would not die like Lisa did. But Fannie's other sisters and her brother
had not been consulted. So there was/could be no agreement.
But Minton hops out there anyway and tells everyone there is one.
Then Stacy said (in her affidavit, was it?) the plan was that after the
case was won the LMT would reorganize as a non-profit and the bulk of
the money could/would come to them.
Sounds like Brooks and Minton wanted a big return on Minton's
"investment" and they were trying to manipulate things to see that Bob
got his Just deserts.,,,.i.e. more big bucks for the big investment
banker. Guess some people don't care how they get their money, even if
they have to rob the dead or stab a couple dozen friends in the back as
long as they get the Money.
>That there was no written and legally
> binding agreement on paper with acres
> of fine printon the bottom is understood
> without a problem.
Oh, is it? Undersood by whom? There was a problem with Minton touting
his horn about it. Was he just a fool or was he trying to force the
issue and get an agreement?
>Did you have a point?
Yes I do. See above. IMO your "point" is pretty dull and your "friend"
Minton was either a fool or trying to pull a fast one or both.
Carol2180
>a
>lot of wild speculation and condemnation of Bob and Stacy but many of us
>refuse
>to comdemn or comment until we know what is actually going on.
>
>JImdbb
>
>
What does it take, Jim?
Rev. Fredric L. Rice
>My short version: Bob and Stacy have become traitors and
>are now destroying everything they once fought for.
I find after reading the latest transcripts that I'm finally of that
opinion as well. <heh> And I also think you're an asshole, ptsc. }:-}
-- Insane nut rant at http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice
"Commodore Rimjob" is available at http://crimjob.tripod.com
Why did the Scientologist cross the road? - mimus
To slug Bob Minton. - Shydavid (See http://www.BobMinton.ORG/
"Hey Ratfink Asshole Arnie..." -- boobook...@webtv.net (Tigger)
Patrick J. Volk
I don't know. My take on it is Bob was always a little over the
edge. He had the money, but he also seemed to be sloppy at times. If
you're as high-profile as he is, you have to make sure your crap don't
stink... You have to be careful.
He attracted followers. Probably a few were looking for a free
lunch. Others wanted the money without the uneasy obligation that
comes along with it. His exchange with Dorian was interesting, but
turned out to be a chimera. That affected his credibility.
But he certainly did carry the fight to Scientology. He had lawyers,
and the LMT operating almost across the street from Scieno central. He
was literally active across the world against Scientology.
I think Scientology did find something. They seem to have him by the
short hairs. Also, perhaps maybe there is some backlash against his
followers, who were asking for more money.
I think if he wanted to walk away, he just would have. But he's
either getting back at some of the hangers-on, or he's being
blackmailed by Scientology (probably due to taxes).
roger gonnet
"Hartley Patterson" <hpt...@daisy.freeserve.co.uk> a écrit dans le message
de news: MPG.17539282d...@news.freeserve.net...
> The CoS managed a major footbullet when the Google search engine fought
> off an attempt to remove links from it to Operation Clambake.
> Wollersheim of FACTNET finally got his dimes when the CoS suddenly gave up
> and paid the $8.7 million they owed him in his marathon legal case.
> Finally the CoS was fined in Paris for data protection violations, though
> they were acquitted on more serious charges.
Worse? The church can be sued in Paris before what we call the "Assises",
the Court where crimes are judged (in the sense of french law, that means
high crimes).
The crime cult risks indeed to be sent before the Assises, for at leat two
crimes (extortion and fraud in organized gang). But I've more behind and
I'll make everything to put that before courts as well: some new corpses
exist. One is the corpse of the mother killed by a scientologist last year,
by fork.
roger
Sharky
People who finally tell the truth and cooperate with the authorities are traitors?
That sounds much like gang members or the mob talking.
And then again... It is not surprising, isn't it?