very sad

0 views
Skip to first unread message

The Momentary Delurker

unread,
Apr 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM4/30/98
to

I buying some groceries in a little grocery store across the street
from a scientology org when I noticed the fellow behind me. Medium
height, thin and wearing a rather rumpled shirt, tie and slacks.
His hair was a bit longish, as though overdue for a haircut. Shirt
and tie is rather unusual attire for the area and since I was
wearing a light jacket because it was a cool evening I thought he
must not have walked very far.

Then I noticed what he was purchasing: two very small tomatoes and a
small packet of lunch meat, enough to make one sandwich or maybe two
in a pinch, perhaps a dollar and a half purchase at best.

I realized then that he was in all likelyhood one of the
scientologists from across the street, probably a low level staff
member. I knew from experience that poverty was endemic among low
level staff around here, resources entirely sucked up by the
"church."

I suddenly saw myself twelve years ago in this young man.

It was a very sad picture.

Delurk

WONDERFULR

unread,
May 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/1/98
to

>Subject: very sad
>From: The Momentary Delurker <del...@molly.hh.org>
>Date: Thu, Apr 30, 1998 22:50 EDT
>Message-id: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980430...@molly.hh.org>

>
>I buying some groceries in a little grocery store across the street
>from a scientology org when I noticed the fellow behind me. Medium
>height, thin and wearing a rather rumpled shirt, tie and slacks.

That is sad. Rumpled shirts make me want to cry.

>His hair was a bit longish, as though overdue for a haircut.

I only get misty eyed on that, though. Some long hair even makes me happy.

>Then I noticed what he was purchasing: two very small tomatoes and a
>small packet of lunch meat

Seeing small tomatoes being purchased can cause even the strong to break down
in grief.

Small packets of lunch meat give everyone grief.

> enough to make one sandwich or maybe two
>in a pinch, perhaps a dollar and a half purchase at best.

If the guy (who ~might~ have been a Scientologist) had purchased over $3.00
worth of food, it would have been okay. But to buy $1.50 worth just makes me
sick!

>
>I realized then that he was in all likelyhood one of the
>scientologists from across the street, probably a low level staff
>member.

Or perhaps a Catholic or Mormon man who wanted to make a sandwich.

>I suddenly saw myself twelve years ago in this young man.
>

Were you really into small tomatoes and lunch meat 12 years ago?

Keith Henson

unread,
May 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/1/98
to

The Momentary Delurker (del...@molly.hh.org) wrote:

snip

: Then I noticed what he was purchasing: two very small tomatoes and a
: small packet of lunch meat, enough to make one sandwich or maybe two


: in a pinch, perhaps a dollar and a half purchase at best.

: I realized then that he was in all likelyhood one of the


: scientologists from across the street, probably a low level staff

: member. I knew from experience that poverty was endemic among low


: level staff around here, resources entirely sucked up by the
: "church."

: I suddenly saw myself twelve years ago in this young man.

: It was a very sad picture.

Yeah, never been there myself, but this one brought tears. Next time
invite him out for a meal. Keith Henson


Roland

unread,
May 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/1/98
to

The Momentary Delurker wrote:
>
> I buying some groceries in a little grocery store across the street
> from a scientology org when I noticed the fellow behind me. Medium
> height, thin and wearing a rather rumpled shirt, tie and slacks.
> His hair was a bit longish, as though overdue for a haircut. Shirt
> and tie is rather unusual attire for the area and since I was
> wearing a light jacket because it was a cool evening I thought he
> must not have walked very far.
>
> Then I noticed what he was purchasing: two very small tomatoes and a
> small packet of lunch meat, enough to make one sandwich or maybe two
> in a pinch, perhaps a dollar and a half purchase at best.

Naah! Two very small tomatoes so the guy could get in a bit of
auditing and still carry on if one of the tomatoes had a psychotic
break. As for the lunch meat, perhaps he was going to Spam the
net later. This could be wgert. Did he have a pig with him?

Roland
--
Watch the Xemu Cartoon: http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/xemurams/
Visit Xemu's Home Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/index2.html
Also the incomparable Operation Clambake: http://www.xenu.net/
The TRUE story of Hubbard: http://www.primenet.com/~lippard/bfm/
Hubbard's "No Christ": http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/rams/Nochrist.ram
The famous Xenu flyer: http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/flyers/Xemu.html

MikeSmith3

unread,
May 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/1/98
to

On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:50:05 -0700, The Momentary Delurker
<del...@molly.hh.org> wrote:

>I buying some groceries in a little grocery store across the
>street

>


>Then I noticed what he was purchasing: two very
>small tomatoes and a small packet of lunch meat, enough
>to make one sandwich or maybe two in a pinch, perhaps
>a dollar and a half purchase at best.

>I suddenly saw myself twelve years ago in this young man.

>
>It was a very sad picture.
>

The clerk overheard him saying, "I didn't mean to screw O'Riley out of his
money. This case was air tight."


Ted Mayett (KOX)

unread,
May 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/1/98
to

>
>Then I noticed what he was purchasing:

One day doing a picket at the big org, one of the faithful comes out
the building and takes off walking. 20 minutes and he is back with a
4 pack of toilet paper. It is a 20 minute walk to the supermarket.

I used to donate toilet paper, coffee, styrofoam cups, plastic garbage
bags, all kind of things like that. But never a 4 pack. It is just
not worth my time to stand in line to purchase a 4 pack.

Come on whipper, do a snappy reply to this.

--
Ted Mayett OT 1.1
http://xenu.phys.uit.no/cgi-bin/globloc.cgi

The Momentary Delurker

unread,
May 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/1/98
to

On Fri, 1 May 1998, Keith Henson wrote:

> The Momentary Delurker (del...@molly.hh.org) wrote:
>

> : Then I noticed what he was purchasing: two very small tomatoes and a


> : small packet of lunch meat, enough to make one sandwich or maybe two
> : in a pinch, perhaps a dollar and a half purchase at best.
>

> : I realized then that he was in all likelyhood one of the
> : scientologists from across the street, probably a low level staff
> : member. I knew from experience that poverty was endemic among low
> : level staff around here, resources entirely sucked up by the
> : "church."
>

> : I suddenly saw myself twelve years ago in this young man.

>
> : It was a very sad picture.
>

> Yeah, never been there myself, but this one brought tears. Next time
> invite him out for a meal. Keith Henson


I should have. But I'm a coward, afraid of getting anywhere near
scientology again.

Twelve years ago I spent my last 50 cents on a hostess fruit pie in
the store right across from the mission, desperate for enough
calories to get me through the TRs scheduled to last until 11pm and
terrified of being late to class, already having done TRs all day.

Several staff members noticed and commented on that fruit pie before
I ate it in the break room later on. I remember one fellow I didn't
know recounting his "wins" that day and his was, "I went grocery
shopping today and even though I didn't have much money I really got
a lot of food."

On the way back to the staff house one lady joked, "If you do enough
TRs you don't need much sleep!"

Someone else was talking about cockroaches, something about how they
don't have much theta, that they are "mostly mechanical."

We got to the house and everyone immediately disappeared into their
rooms. I imagined that they all ate privately in their rooms. I
was very hungry but afraid to ask anyone.

One fellow who claimed to be a nuclear engineer remained in the
kitchen and began cooking chunks of unknown fish and drinking
cal-mag. He gave me some fish when he was done eating.

I didn't want to drink the tap water because Chernobyl fallout was
just starting to arrive here. The "nuclear engineer" seemed to
think "All About Radiation" was pretty accurate stuff. I didn't.

Someone was kind enough to give me an extra blanket that night. It
was cold. I slept on the living room floor. There was no furniture.

It all seemed very surreal and still does.

I blew early the next morning. It took me several years to get my
head back together and sometimes I'm still not too sure... Thank
God I wasn't on staff any longer because I surely would have been
sucked in forever.

Delurk


Rod Keller

unread,
May 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/1/98
to

The Momentary Delurker (del...@molly.hh.org) wrote:
: Then I noticed what he was purchasing: two very small tomatoes and a
: small packet of lunch meat, enough to make one sandwich or maybe two
: in a pinch, perhaps a dollar and a half purchase at best.
:
: I realized then that he was in all likelyhood one of the
: scientologists from across the street, probably a low level staff
: member. I knew from experience that poverty was endemic among low
: level staff around here, resources entirely sucked up by the
: "church."
:
: I suddenly saw myself twelve years ago in this young man.
:
: It was a very sad picture.

A frequent contributor to a.r.s once told me s/he had saved up $2000
before joining SO in the 70s. S/he was able to stretch it for two years to
eat a hamburger every day instead of the rations at the berthing, which
was boiled millet. They couldn't afford beans and rice. Sounds like some
things haven't changed all that much.

--
Rod Keller / rke...@voicenet.com / Irresponsible Publisher
Black Hat #1 / Expert of the Toilet / CWPD Mouthpiece
The Lerma Apologist / Merchant of Chaos / Vision of Destruction
Killer Rod / OSA Patsy / Quasi-Scieno / Mental Bully

The Momentary Delurker

unread,
May 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/1/98
to

On Fri, 1 May 1998, Roland wrote:

> The Momentary Delurker wrote:
> >
> > Then I noticed what he was purchasing: two very small tomatoes and a
> > small packet of lunch meat, enough to make one sandwich or maybe two
> > in a pinch, perhaps a dollar and a half purchase at best.
>

> Naah! Two very small tomatoes so the guy could get in a bit of
> auditing and still carry on if one of the tomatoes had a psychotic
> break. As for the lunch meat, perhaps he was going to Spam the
> net later. This could be wgert. Did he have a pig with him?

Heh. Roland, I must say that you certainly crack me up with some of
your, ah, colorful posts. This one's a keeper!

But my point was that scientologists are human beings too and almost
all (not every one though) are pretty nice people, even if they're
a little fried upstairs. About like the general population, you
know?

I don't like seeing people go hungry. Hopefully I was mistaken and
that wasn't the case at all with this fellow. It just brought back a
lot of my own experiences when I was "on staff."

Cheers,
Delurk

The Momentary Delurker

unread,
May 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/1/98
to

On 1 May 1998, WONDERFULR wrote:

> Were you really into small tomatoes and lunch meat 12 years ago?

Thanks for the flamage.

You know, the one thing that is generally asked of us as human
beings is to try to treat one another decently.

You really ought to make a point of trying it once during your
lifetime.

It will probably make you feel better than all that auditing does.
Cheaper too.

Cheers,
Delurk

ExScio

unread,
May 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/1/98
to

>I buying some groceries in a little grocery store across the street
>from a scientology org when I noticed the fellow behind me. Medium
>height, thin and wearing a rather rumpled shirt, tie and slacks.
>His hair was a bit longish, as though overdue for a haircut. Shirt
>and tie is rather unusual attire for the area and since I was
>wearing a light jacket because it was a cool evening I thought he
>must not have walked very far.
>
>Then I noticed what he was purchasing: two very small tomatoes and a
>small packet of lunch meat, enough to make one sandwich or maybe two
>in a pinch, perhaps a dollar and a half purchase at best.
>
>I realized then that he was in all likelyhood one of the
>scientologists from across the street, probably a low level staff
>member. I knew from experience that poverty was endemic among low
>level staff around here, resources entirely sucked up by the
>"church."
>
>I suddenly saw myself twelve years ago in this young man.
>
>It was a very sad picture.
>
>Delurk


I can certainly remember working for the world wide (WW)
management level of Scientology in the mid-70's and MANY
times wishing I had a few pence to purchase a cup of tea
or a snack at the Saint Hill canteen.

I wasn't SO and even with supplementing my income by
doing some auditing in spare time (evenings/weekends)
my pay was typically around 10-12 English pounds per
week (about $20-25 per week at the exchange rate then).

Out of that I had to pay rent and food. On a really good
week I might be able to afford a movie, but that was it.

I took $600 with me to England to put in a bank account
to keep the Immigration officials happy. It was only because
of that that I was able to survive the "down stat" weeks.

When I finished my staff contract I had to get a real job
for several months in order to make enough money to
pay for my plane fare back home.

Working on staff for Scientology can give you a real
appreciation for what poverty is all about.


<<<<< ExScio (with the emphasis on EX) - St. Louis area SP >>>>>

Martin Hunt

unread,
May 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/1/98
to

In article <Pine.LNX.3.96.980501...@molly.hh.org>,

The Momentary Delurker <del...@molly.hh.org> wrote:

>I don't like seeing people go hungry. Hopefully I was mistaken and
>that wasn't the case at all with this fellow. It just brought back a
>lot of my own experiences when I was "on staff."

A lot of staffers go hungry. I have a proposal: a volunteer food
truck to visit Cedars and give away sandwiches and drinks. I bet
it wouldn't be hard to get hungry people to line up for a bite
right outside the complex. I pity the people on rice and beans;
I was put on that diet for three weeks once when my stats were
down. A lot of people in the cafeteria at Cedars are eating rice
and beans every day. They're made up in large stainless steel
restaurant pans; small, tasteless beans cooked in water and poorly
made rice, in the same pans. The downstat go in the back, behind
the lines, and grab a little heap of the rice and beans on a
paper plate, then sit down to eat, eying all the other people
eating pork chops, avocadoes, fruit, and ice cream. It is a really
sad situation, particularly for the chronically downstat whose
gums begin to bleed from malnourishment on the essentially 3rd
world diet. In the middle of Hollywood, right in the middle of
a multi-million dollars complex, people sit in the midst of heaps
of food - and starve.

Can't the arscc do something for these poor people before they
lose their teeth or get seriously ill from Hubbard's starvation
diet? If I ever picket down there, I'm bringing a knapsack of
grub to hand out to any staffer there who wants it. (this is
really only a staffer issue; publics can eat as they please,
and often eat well as they need to get a solid metab test for
their auditing. Also note this isn't so much an issue for smaller
orgs, generally; they don't even have cafeterias, and no one's
on mandated rice-and-bean diets.)

--
Cogito, ergo sum. http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~av282/
"In South Africa, a Bantu's withholds read not on the needle alone
but on the Tone Arm as well. The Tone Arm goes up as much as two
divisions (3 to 5) just before you get off a bad withhold on one."
- L. Ron Hubbard, E-Meter Essentials, page 23.


Martin Hunt

unread,
May 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/1/98
to

In article <Pine.LNX.3.96.980501...@molly.hh.org>,
The Momentary Delurker <del...@molly.hh.org> wrote:

Amazing how this resonated with my own experience - the remarks
I heard, sleeping on the floor (whole time I was in LA), no
furniture, hunger, poverty, doing the TRs late into the night,
and that same surreal feeling, disassociative state.

I kept imagining how I was becoming this wondrous thing. I'd
echo my mind off the hillsides and space out, thinking about
my cousin studying astrophysics in Toronto, and wishing he were
here, wishing he could experience this, this expansive, vacant,
empty feeling, as if I were a tenuous drifting gas.

Well, it's difficult to describe. Sorry for the drifting tense;
I kinda "returned" there. :-) It was a dead, empty time; it all
seemed so real and powerful at the time, but it was really a
delusion. Scientology is dead and empty - soulless. Scientologists
are insane. I don't mean this as a put down of any kind; just a
statement of their state of mind. Realize that when you deal
with them: they're insane.

--
Cogito, ergo sum. http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~av282/
"In South Africa, a Bantu's withholds read not on the needle alone
but on the Tone Arm as well. The Tone Arm goes up as much as two
divisions (3 to 5) just before you get off a bad withhold on one."
- L. Ron Hubbard, E-Meter Essentials, page 23.

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Keith Henson

unread,
May 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/1/98
to

The Momentary Delurker (del...@molly.hh.org) wrote:

snip

: It all seemed very surreal and still does.

: I blew early the next morning. It took me several years to get my
: head back together and sometimes I'm still not too sure... Thank
: God I wasn't on staff any longer because I surely would have been
: sucked in forever.

Delurk, it might help if you dig into memetics, evolutionary psychology
and how minds are sucked into drug addiction. If you point your browser
at ftp://ftp/netcom.com/pub/hk/hkhenson and look at the file "all" the
last of those three articles has a model of where human vulnerabilites to
cults come from, and how they work.

You would not be nearly as mystified if you came down with some infection
because we have a fairly good understanding of what causes infections. I
think a similar understanding of how cults "take advantage" of the
psychological characteristics wired into human minds over millions of
years of evolving in tribes and small villages is emerging.

Keith Henson

Wolf

unread,
May 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/1/98
to

This idiotic thread about someone who 'looked' like a Scientologist
(talk about bigotry - what does a Scn look like?) who may or may not
have been buying sandwhich fixings has brought out all the 'poor me'
tales of woe. What a load.

ExScio wrote:

> I can certainly remember working for the world wide (WW)
> management level of Scientology in the mid-70's and MANY
> times wishing I had a few pence to purchase a cup of tea
> or a snack at the Saint Hill canteen.

You obviously weren't very smart, or ingenious. When I worked at WW I
had plenty of smokes, tea, eats, warm clothes and even a nifty little
mini Cooper to drive around in.



> I wasn't SO and even with supplementing my income by
> doing some auditing in spare time (evenings/weekends)
> my pay was typically around 10-12 English pounds per
> week (about $20-25 per week at the exchange rate then).

That's what they were paying me in 67-68. Of course, any halfway bright
person could have easily pocketed an extra $200-300 per month. I did.
Left me plenty for week-end jaunts to London, visits to haunted houses
and romancing the local Birds.

> Out of that I had to pay rent and food. On a really good
> week I might be able to afford a movie, but that was it.

Small minds make small things. You should have gotten off your butt and
generated some extra income.

> I took $600 with me to England to put in a bank account
> to keep the Immigration officials happy. It was only because
> of that that I was able to survive the "down stat" weeks.

When I came back from the Med in Feb 68' I had a pocket full of small
change. Me and a buddy BS'd our way past customs by handing his money
back through the wire fencing and within 24 hours of getting back to St.
Hill I had $50, a nice heated room, a full belly and some chick from
Chicago snuggling up next to me.



> When I finished my staff contract I had to get a real job
> for several months in order to make enough money to
> pay for my plane fare back home.

Wow. You really weren't very inventive were you? No wonder the *down
stat* weeks hurt your little feelings so much.

> Working on staff for Scientology can give you a real
> appreciation for what poverty is all about.

Being a loser who blames everyone and everything but themselves for
their lack of success is probably a better description of your
Scientology staff experience.

Wolf


ExScio

unread,
May 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/1/98
to

Wolf writes:

[snip]

>You obviously weren't very smart, or ingenious. When I worked at WW I
>had plenty of smokes, tea, eats, warm clothes and even a nifty little
>mini Cooper to drive around in.


That's the problem with too many Scientologists - always on
the lookout for some new scam to con people out of money.
I knew plenty of people at Saint Hill who filled their pockets
- at someone else's expense, usually their fellow Scientologists.

>> my pay was typically around 10-12 English pounds per
>> week (about $20-25 per week at the exchange rate then).
>
>That's what they were paying me in 67-68. Of course, any halfway bright
>person could have easily pocketed an extra $200-300 per month. I did.


Is that what you got by going on the dole (welfare) while in
England? Or did you have some other con going?

>You should have gotten off your butt and
>generated some extra income.

I worked in a management group whose stats were in POWER
for most of the time I was there. I moonlighted by working
evenings/weekends as an auditor. I still got paid barely
enough to live on, but then I didn't run any con games like
you obviously did.

>When I came back from the Med in Feb 68' I had a pocket full of small
>change. Me and a buddy BS'd our way past customs by handing his money
>back through the wire fencing and within 24 hours of getting back to St.
>Hill I had $50, a nice heated room, a full belly and some chick from
>Chicago snuggling up next to me.


Another good example of the really high ethical standards
of too many Scientologists.

[snipped rest of the insults]

Clearly you are the loser (morally, ethically, and philosophically)

Inducto

unread,
May 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/1/98
to

From: Wolf <wolf...@micron.net>:

>When I came back from the Med in Feb 68' I had a pocket full of small
>change. Me and a buddy BS'd our way past customs by handing his money
>back through the wire fencing and within 24 hours of getting back to St.
>Hill I had $50, a nice heated room, a full belly and some chick from
>Chicago snuggling up next to me.

So your recollection of the good old days on CoS staff is replete with deceit
and currency illegality?!

Were the rest of the means you used to pad your pocket legal (according to
plain old "wog" law) or not?

And what's so wrong with the notion that an organization that promises and
expects full-time employment, and that has a substantial cash flow, should pay
a decent wage to its employees rather than relying on their creativity to make
ends meet?


I.

SIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIG

Induct YourSELF into new realities

Avoid highwaymen on the road to personal and spiritual betterment -- beware
dead ends and unlit paths


Franklin A Eldridge

unread,
May 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/1/98
to

Keith Henson wrote:
>
<snipped>

>
> Delurk, it might help if you dig into memetics, evolutionary psychology
> and how minds are sucked into drug addiction. If you point your browser
> at ftp://ftp/netcom.com/pub/hk/hkhenson and look at the file "all" the
> last of those three articles has a model of where human vulnerabilites to
> cults come from, and how they work.
>

> Keith Henson
hey, Keith, I tried clicking on your URL, but I got a message that the
file is unobtainable...typo, or just (my) clutz-ism?
Thanks. KE

Franklin A Eldridge

unread,
May 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/1/98
to

wgert

unread,
May 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/1/98
to

In buying some groceries in a little grocery store I noticed a fellow

behind me. Medium height, thin and wearing a rather rumpled shirt, tie
and slacks. His hair was a bit longish, as though overdue for a
haircut. The tie had ketchup blops all over. Shirt and tie is rather

unusual attire for the area and since I was wearing a light jacket
because it was a cool evening I thought he must not have walked very
far.

Then I noticed what he was purchasing: two very small tomatoes and

a small packet of lunch meat, enough to make a sandwich or two in a


pinch, perhaps a dollar and a half purchase at best.

I realized then that he was in all likelyhood one of the critics from
the net, probably a low level arscc member. whom I knew from
experience that poverty was epidemic among low level posters
around there; resources entirely sucked up by child support
payments, court costs, tax payments.

It was a very sad picture.

I wish I could have done something for him to change his hateful
attitude.

wgert


Franklin A Eldridge

unread,
May 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/1/98
to

I clicked on send without reading the title...dumb, I'll admit here and
now....:P (Now accepting jests and taunts for this stupid
mistake...with a sense of humor)
KE

Garry Scarff

unread,
May 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/1/98
to

You will, wgert. What you saw in your vision was Dennis Erlich, a
penniless transient after losing his public benefits when the government
finds they'd been lied to and manipulated. Keep those coins handy,
wgert.

Ayet

unread,
May 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/1/98
to

In article <354970...@virgin.net>, roland.rash...@virgin.net
says...

> The Momentary Delurker wrote:
> >
> > I buying some groceries in a little grocery store across the street
> > from a scientology org when I noticed the fellow behind me. Medium

> > height, thin and wearing a rather rumpled shirt, tie and slacks.
> > His hair was a bit longish, as though overdue for a haircut. Shirt

> > and tie is rather unusual attire for the area and since I was
> > wearing a light jacket because it was a cool evening I thought he
> > must not have walked very far.
> >
> > Then I noticed what he was purchasing: two very small tomatoes and a
> > small packet of lunch meat, enough to make one sandwich or maybe two

> > in a pinch, perhaps a dollar and a half purchase at best.
>
> Naah! Two very small tomatoes so the guy could get in a bit of
> auditing and still carry on if one of the tomatoes had a psychotic
> break. As for the lunch meat, perhaps he was going to Spam the
> net later. This could be wgert. Did he have a pig with him?
>
> Roland
> --
> Watch the Xemu Cartoon: http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/xemurams/
> Visit Xemu's Home Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/index2.html
> Also the incomparable Operation Clambake: http://www.xenu.net/
> The TRUE story of Hubbard: http://www.primenet.com/~lippard/bfm/
> Hubbard's "No Christ": http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/rams/Nochrist.ram
> The famous Xenu flyer: http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/flyers/Xemu.html
>
All,
The correct URL is ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/hk/hkhenson . Notice
the period(.) instead of the slash(/)

-K-

P.S.
Sorry Justin, that's only two dots (unless you count the colon as
two dots!)

--
'There is no Christ' - Hubbard
'There is no Hubbard' - Christ
(With apologies to Nietzsche)

Check out these sites for the truth about COS:
http://home.sol.no/heldal/CoS/
http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/dianetics.html
*****************XENU*XEMU*KOBRIN*NOTS*******************

Wolf

unread,
May 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/1/98
to

ExScio wrote:
>
> Wolf writes:

> >You obviously weren't very smart, or ingenious. When I worked at WW I
> >had plenty of smokes, tea, eats, warm clothes and even a nifty little
> >mini Cooper to drive around in.
>
> That's the problem with too many Scientologists - always on
> the lookout for some new scam to con people out of money.
> I knew plenty of people at Saint Hill who filled their pockets
> - at someone else's expense, usually their fellow Scientologists.

How would you know? I didn't describe how I made the money. Just that
working hard seemed to result in having a more comfortable lifestyle.
What a concept huh?

> >> my pay was typically around 10-12 English pounds per
> >> week (about $20-25 per week at the exchange rate then).
> >
> >That's what they were paying me in 67-68. Of course, any halfway bright
> >person could have easily pocketed an extra $200-300 per month. I did.
>
> Is that what you got by going on the dole (welfare) while in
> England? Or did you have some other con going?

You seem to only have two speeds, Attack or Victim. The obvious question
here is: If anyone has more than you, does that mean they're unethical?
That seems to be your attitude.

> >You should have gotten off your butt and
> >generated some extra income.
>
> I worked in a management group whose stats were in POWER
> for most of the time I was there. I moonlighted by working
> evenings/weekends as an auditor. I still got paid barely
> enough to live on, but then I didn't run any con games like
> you obviously did.

Sounds like either your stats were false or you were being screwed by
the org. This would have been pretty easy to deal with for most humans
-> if the stats are lies, stop lying. If you're getting screwed, then go
work for someone who won't screw you. And then there's the 'con game'
missle again. You really aren't overly bright are you?

> >When I came back from the Med in Feb 68' I had a pocket full of small
> >change. Me and a buddy BS'd our way past customs by handing his money
> >back through the wire fencing and within 24 hours of getting back to St.
> >Hill I had $50, a nice heated room, a full belly and some chick from
> >Chicago snuggling up next to me.
>

> Another good example of the really high ethical standards
> of too many Scientologists.

Depends. Being warm and having a pretty lady might be unethical to some
some people. Where I come from it's part of life. As far as sneaking
past customs... hey, we were a bunch of wild teenagers. It was fun,
exciting and it kept me from ending up like you and all the other sad
sacks who slither around in your own self-pity for all the world to see.

> [snipped rest of the insults]
>
> Clearly you are the loser (morally, ethically, and philosophically)

Well sir, you have a right to your opinion. I will state though that if
your definition of ethics, morality and workable philosophy is to
stupidly submit yourself to torurous hours of hard work for a larcenous
organization in a foriegn country where you don't have enough to eat and
then coming home and crying bitterly about how wronged you were in front
of thousands of people from all over the world... well.. you have a
philosophy devoid of self-respect, discipline, responsibility and common
sense. And you're welcome to it.

Wolf

Wolf

unread,
May 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/1/98
to

Apparently ARS's chief victim, the Rev. Dennis spat some more of his
trash talk in my direction. My newsreader failed to pick his article
up... hmmm... this could be a good feature.

Anonymous wrote:
>
> inf...@newsguy.com (Rev. Dennis Erlich) wrote:


>
> >Wolf <wolf...@micron.net> wrote:
>
> >>When I worked at WW I
> >>had plenty of smokes, tea, eats, warm clothes and even a nifty little
> >>mini Cooper to drive around in.
> >

> > That's because the predators always got the best of everything in
> >the cult.

> Nope. That's because some people always managed to get around, because
> they were honest, smart and people liked them. Not like you, Dennis.
> You can't even make a buck *now* that you are in the supposed free
> world. Who are you going to blame this time around, Dennis? OSA. Ah,
> yes, I forgot. Good o'l OSA... And who are you going to blame for your
> personal and familial failure? Ah, OSA. Sure. I almost forgot again...
> Damn! The tech really doesn't work.

I'd have to agree with Anon here. Being nice to people and doing a
better job than expected seemed to keep me in tea and biscuits.
Defending your space and demanding you get paid what you're worth is
hardly predatory. But then if your entire life is defined by what others
have done to victimize you, I suppose many things appear threatening.

> > True fact. And it gives a real appreciation for being homeless,
> >friendless, and on the street in a foreign land without a passport,
> >when you finally do decide to leave.

Anyone stupid enough to end up in such a position ought to examine their
own actions and the true extent of their ignorance.

> How long ago did you get your fat ass kicked out the org, Dennis? And
> why are you *still* as so to say homeless, friendless, and all of
> those you touched are in a foreign land as far as possible of your so
> noble person, Dennis? When are you going to reflect on yourself
> instead of getting ever deeper in your bottomless resentment and
> justification?


>
> >>Being a loser who blames everyone and everything but themselves for
> >>their lack of success is probably a better description of your
> >>Scientology staff experience.
> >

> > What a piece of shit you are, dogboy.

Again we have the typical Erlich response. You really don't play well
with other children do you?

> Why, Dennis? Because it fits you to a T? I understand that it must not
> be pleasant to see yourself in a mirror, but your failure to recognize
> that you are for a great part responsible for your own situation plays
> the leading role.
>
> Time to grow up, Dennis. Not much time before you FOAD. Hurry up.

I suspect this Anon poster is a current Scientologist. If not, he/she is
an ex-Scn like me who doesn't see the world in terms of being victimized
or predator. I have more compassion (not to mention pity) for many
ex-Scn who haven't come to terms with the reality that bad things
happened to them because they didn't prevent them from happening. That
ain't Scn tech, just plain common sense. This ain't a war, no one was
drafted into the SO, no guns were held to any heads, there was no Iron
Curtain to escape across... being a Scn or a SO member was completely
voluntary on the part of all the weak-spined victims that crawl around
on this NG looking for donations and adoration.

Wolf

Steve A

unread,
May 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/2/98
to

On 01 May 1998 21:21:49 GMT, ind...@aol.com (Inducto) wrote:

> From: Wolf <wolf...@micron.net>:
> >When I came back from the Med in Feb 68' I had a pocket full of small
> >change. Me and a buddy BS'd our way past customs by handing his money
> >back through the wire fencing and within 24 hours of getting back to St.
> >Hill I had $50, a nice heated room, a full belly and some chick from
> >Chicago snuggling up next to me.
>

> So your recollection of the good old days on CoS staff is replete with deceit
> and currency illegality?!

Pretty unusual for Scientologists to be bringing money *into* the
country. ISTR some comments about how a great deal of money used to
leave the UK orgs in suitcases, for deposit into offshore bank
accounts.

--
Practicing medicine without a licence? You decide:
"Step Four - Cures for Illness
You will now find BTs and clusters being cures for illnesses
of the body part. Handle all such BTs and clusters by blowing
them off. "Cures for Illness" will then cease to read.
[NOTS 34, Fair Use excerpt]

Steve A, SP4, GGBC, KBM, Unsalvageable PTS/SP #12.
<SARCASM>I am a Scientologist</SARCASM>

Anonymous

unread,
May 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/2/98
to

inf...@newsguy.com (Rev. Dennis Erlich) wrote:

>Wolf <wolf...@micron.net> wrote:

>>When I worked at WW I
>>had plenty of smokes, tea, eats, warm clothes and even a nifty little
>>mini Cooper to drive around in.
>
> That's because the predators always got the best of everything in
>the cult.

Nope. That's because some people always managed to get around, because
they were honest, smart and people liked them. Not like you, Dennis.
You can't even make a buck *now* that you are in the supposed free
world. Who are you going to blame this time around, Dennis? OSA. Ah,
yes, I forgot. Good o'l OSA... And who are you going to blame for your
personal and familial failure? Ah, OSA. Sure. I almost forgot again...
Damn! The tech really doesn't work.

> True fact. And it gives a real appreciation for being homeless,


>friendless, and on the street in a foreign land without a passport,
>when you finally do decide to leave.

How long ago did you get your fat ass kicked out the org, Dennis? And


why are you *still* as so to say homeless, friendless, and all of
those you touched are in a foreign land as far as possible of your so
noble person, Dennis? When are you going to reflect on yourself
instead of getting ever deeper in your bottomless resentment and
justification?

>>Being a loser who blames everyone and everything but themselves for
>>their lack of success is probably a better description of your
>>Scientology staff experience.
>
> What a piece of shit you are, dogboy.

Why, Dennis? Because it fits you to a T? I understand that it must not

Dave Bird---St Hippo of Augustine

unread,
May 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/2/98
to

In article <199805010325...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
WONDERFULR <wonde...@aol.com> writes:
>That is sad. Rumpled shirts make me want to cry.

>
>>His hair was a bit longish, as though overdue for a haircut.
>
>I only get misty eyed on that, though. Some long hair even makes me happy.

>
>>Then I noticed what he was purchasing: two very small tomatoes and a
>>small packet of lunch meat
>
>Seeing small tomatoes being purchased can cause even the strong to break down
>in grief.

Ron apparently agreed with you: he said they scream when they are cut,
and refused to have them in his salads. He had great affinity for
tomatoes, possibly feeling a kinship with their fat red roundness.

__ .\|/////..
||_.-' '. /\\|// ----
// ; | -----
--._// .\|/. .==== =====. --- -----------X*E*M*U-----------+
(( //(####) \d]>||<[d]>\ (~\ |
|| v '--'\\ . | \ | ''Auditting your Garden |
|| ; v . {_ \ : \/ Plants'' by L Ron Tubbard |
// .' : .'___' : ' Bridge Publications |
// ; '. ~===~ /\ $949.99 paperback |
// . .... o : /__\'''' / \ |
. \\\\~~~~|~~~~~~~|\\ / /\/,,, further details, ring |
. | .\''. |/''''/.|,,\\ //,,,,,,, 01 800 FOR TRUT |
'.|: O :|[ / ]|,,,,\/,,,,,,,,, |
----------------| '...' |[__O__]|,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, --------------------------+
|_______|_______|,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Keith Henson

unread,
May 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/2/98
to

Franklin A Eldridge (fae...@bellsouth.net) wrote:

Typo.

ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/hk/hkhenson Keith Henson


Anonymous

unread,
May 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/2/98
to

Wolf <wolf...@micron.net> wrote:

>Apparently ARS's chief victim, the Rev. Dennis spat some more of his
>trash talk in my direction. My newsreader failed to pick his article
>up... hmmm... this could be a good feature.

You can safely put Erlich in your killfile, Wolf. He never argues the
issues, but rather paints a primitive, black and white, and highly
dramatized/exaggerated picture of the situation, dealing only with
implicit or explicit belittlement of his "enemies". He really has
nothing of value to say.

>I suspect this Anon poster is a current Scientologist. If not, he/she is
>an ex-Scn like me who doesn't see the world in terms of being victimized
>or predator.

I'll let that to be a guess :-) From time to time there are
sane-thinking ex-members posting to the newsgroup, but they quickly
get bored by the company they keep with here. Soon enough, they end up
defending the COS, simply because the "criticism" to be found in this
newsgroup is just *so* stupid (and always the same).

>I have more compassion (not to mention pity) for many
>ex-Scn who haven't come to terms with the reality that bad things
>happened to them because they didn't prevent them from happening.

A good point. I should rather pity them as well. They are *much* worst
off than ex-members who actually learned something from their
experience, rather than simply reverse their black and white views.
ARS neurotic atmosphere just makes their case worst.

>That
>ain't Scn tech, just plain common sense. This ain't a war, no one was
>drafted into the SO, no guns were held to any heads, there was no Iron
>Curtain to escape across... being a Scn or a SO member was completely
>voluntary on the part of all the weak-spined victims that crawl around
>on this NG looking for donations and adoration.

I agree with you, as usual.


Wolf

unread,
May 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/2/98
to

Anonymous wrote:
>
> Wolf <wolf...@micron.net> wrote:
>
> >Apparently ARS's chief victim, the Rev. Dennis spat some more of his
> >trash talk in my direction. My newsreader failed to pick his article
> >up... hmmm... this could be a good feature.
>
> You can safely put Erlich in your killfile, Wolf. He never argues the
> issues, but rather paints a primitive, black and white, and highly
> dramatized/exaggerated picture of the situation, dealing only with
> implicit or explicit belittlement of his "enemies". He really has
> nothing of value to say.

Erlich is the classic "bully gone bald". Back in his LA Org days he was
a heavily bearded, stocky creep. His nasty temper and arrogance was
perfect for his and his fellow thug - Russ Meadows - methods of dealing
with people. They used their size, foul tempers and supposed tech
expertise to terrorize and dominate as many as they could. It's amusing
now to see that despite his current pear-shape bulk, shiny dome and lack
of social skills, that he still thinks what worked in grade school will
work in adulthood. I find it humorous that ARS has devolved into
pro-Dennis, anti-Dennis factions, whereas in 94/95 I was roundly
attacked by almost all critics for daring to dispute his value in
reforming Scientology.

He's a sad and pathetic man... and he deserves every bit of misery he
recieves.

> >I suspect this Anon poster is a current Scientologist. If not, he/she is
> >an ex-Scn like me who doesn't see the world in terms of being victimized
> >or predator.
>
> I'll let that to be a guess :-) From time to time there are
> sane-thinking ex-members posting to the newsgroup, but they quickly
> get bored by the company they keep with here. Soon enough, they end up
> defending the COS, simply because the "criticism" to be found in this
> newsgroup is just *so* stupid (and always the same).

Most ARS critics somehow fail to see that they follow almost exactly the
robotic thinking habits they accuse Scn of. Some have taken the time to
apply critical thinking skills to what many ex-Scn whiners say and have
adjusted their assaults on CofS mngmnt. Mostly though I see one idiot
after another parade through here and immediatly fall into the valence
of Erlich and his supporters.

Eventually CofS will change, for the better. But it won't be because of
losers like Erlich or outside critics... it'll be because internal
dynamics (read: income) will bring about the need for change. SO
lifestyles and the 'abuse' of it's members is, IMO, the only weak point
Scn has that outside critics can have an effect on. But following the
*poor me* strategy of Erlich and Co. just makes the whole lot of them
look like a bunch of incompetents... which, now that I think about it,
they probably are.



> I agree with you, as usual.

Great minds think alike. Arrogance is only misplaced if it isn't backed
by insight, intelligence and ability. You obviously possess these
traits... why else would you agree with me?

:~D

Wolf


Pimoty

unread,
May 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/2/98
to

Wolf and anonymous sound an aweful like the same person. Other than insults
they have little reason to add to this newsgroup.

Zinj

unread,
May 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/2/98
to

In article <199805021903...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, pim...@aol.com
says...

>
>Wolf and anonymous sound an aweful like the same person. Other than insults
>they have little reason to add to this newsgroup.

I think I can tell the difference Pimoty:

Wolf is the arrogant primping peacock of a Brit with social darwinist
pretentions and anonymous is our dingey American with World Wrestling
Federation aspirations (could he be channeling Randy Savage?).

Next!

Zinj

--
Don't forget - Last Rat off the Ship Goes to Jail


Rob Clark

unread,
May 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/2/98
to

On Sat, 02 May 1998 10:41:42 -0600, Wolf <wolf...@micron.net> wrote:

>Anonymous wrote:

>> Wolf <wolf...@micron.net> wrote:

>> >Apparently ARS's chief victim, the Rev. Dennis spat some more of his
>> >trash talk in my direction. My newsreader failed to pick his article
>> >up... hmmm... this could be a good feature.

>> You can safely put Erlich in your killfile, Wolf. He never argues the
>> issues, but rather paints a primitive, black and white, and highly
>> dramatized/exaggerated picture of the situation, dealing only with
>> implicit or explicit belittlement of his "enemies". He really has
>> nothing of value to say.

>Erlich is the classic "bully gone bald". Back in his LA Org days he was
>a heavily bearded, stocky creep. His nasty temper and arrogance was
>perfect for his and his fellow thug - Russ Meadows - methods of dealing
>with people. They used their size, foul tempers and supposed tech

so why did l. ron hubbard pick such a person as his chief cramming officer?
this kind of behavior seems not only to have been tolerated, but indeed was
encouraged and rewarded by increases in rank.

"I was in the shed one day, the wardrobe, working... I hadn't
met Hubbard at this time. And I heard this terrible screaming
filthy language like I had never heard before. I had something
in my hand and it fell to the floor and my mouth flew open.
I said, "Who in the world is that?" And they said it was the
Boss, because we weren't allowed to use the word "Hubbard" for
security reasons. And I said, "You mean the leader of the Church
speaks like that?" And they said, "Yes. He doesn't believe in
keeping anything back."

Bare-Faced Messiah, Russell Miller, p. 250

if erlich was, indeed, as you describe him, then it is fairly easy to see why he
achieved a high rank in scientology.

>expertise to terrorize and dominate as many as they could. It's amusing

by your OWN style of reasoning, those who were "terrorized" and "dominated" by
dennis are just whining victims who couldn't stand up to him.

>now to see that despite his current pear-shape bulk, shiny dome and lack
>of social skills, that he still thinks what worked in grade school will
>work in adulthood. I find it humorous that ARS has devolved into
>pro-Dennis, anti-Dennis factions, whereas in 94/95 I was roundly
>attacked by almost all critics for daring to dispute his value in
>reforming Scientology.

i don't see any pro-dennis or anti-dennis "factions." i could name a few people
who obviously dislike him: bagheera, or steve fishman, or old timer have all
at one point or another attacked dennis on one point or another, but besides
that they don't have anything to do with each other and certainly do not
constitute a "faction."

i think it is those who have built up dennis erlich into an ogre in their own
minds who feel they have to share this vision with the rest of us.

personally, i have always used it as a windsock for someone's general attitude.
the people who show up on the group and immediately start frothing blindly about
how horrible dennis erlich is reveal themselves, mainly, in their contortions.

most of them get over it though. eventually. only a few maintain the same tone
of victimhood in referring to erlich, even years afterward.

rob

Wolf

unread,
May 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/2/98
to

Zinj wrote:
>
> In article <199805021903...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, pim...@aol.com
> says...
> >
> >Wolf and anonymous sound an aweful like the same person. Other than insults
> >they have little reason to add to this newsgroup.
>
> I think I can tell the difference Pimoty:
>
> Wolf is the arrogant primping peacock of a Brit with social darwinist
> pretentions and anonymous is our dingey American with World Wrestling
> Federation aspirations (could he be channeling Randy Savage?).

Heh, heh... I've never been any less than direct Zinj, so when I see
something posted that is truly ignorant, I don't mind pointing it out.
Your assessment is not even close to being correct.... I'd say about
6,000 miles off the mark. Do continue though... I'm enjoying it.

Wolf


Wolf

unread,
May 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/2/98
to

Pimoty wrote:
>
> Wolf and anonymous sound an aweful like the same person. Other than insults
> they have little reason to add to this newsgroup.

I suppose attempting to wedge an original thought into a small space is
a problem for many ARS critics P. It does seem to me that you'd much
prefer ARS be a forum for people who all think alike... specifically
like you. If you'd take the time to wipe the froth and spittle from your
lips and do some research you'd find that I have never failed to answer
a critics question and have accepted corrections on what I post when
presented with undeniable, provable evidence. Some critics may not agree
with my answers or descriptions of what life was like for the vast
majority of CofS members, but life's like that eh?

Anyway P, have fun with your hate.

Wolf

silicon_river

unread,
May 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/2/98
to

wgert wrote:
>

grocery store tale deleted as gert probably doesn't
get out to shop. His pig is really possessive...

KT

rod_fl...@hotmail.com

unread,
May 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/2/98
to

In article <hkhensonE...@netcom.com>#1/1,

hkhe...@netcom.com (Keith Henson) wrote:
>
> The Momentary Delurker (del...@molly.hh.org) wrote:
>
> snip
>
> : It all seemed very surreal and still does.
>
> : I blew early the next morning. It took me several years to get my
> : head back together and sometimes I'm still not too sure... Thank
> : God I wasn't on staff any longer because I surely would have been
> : sucked in forever.
>
> Delurk, it might help if you dig into memetics, evolutionary psychology
> and how minds are sucked into drug addiction. If you point your browser
> at ftp://ftp/netcom.com/pub/hk/hkhenson and look at the file "all" the
> last of those three articles has a model of where human vulnerabilites to
> cults come from, and how they work.
>
> You would not be nearly as mystified if you came down with some infection
> because we have a fairly good understanding of what causes infections. I
> think a similar understanding of how cults "take advantage" of the
> psychological characteristics wired into human minds over millions of
> years of evolving in tribes and small villages is emerging.
>
> Keith Henson
>
Wow. Another of Henson's scientific discoveries and just to
be in the lime light of the internet. Rod.

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading

Brent Stone

unread,
May 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/3/98
to

On 2 May 98 20:08:18 GMT, zinj...@inreach.com (Zinj) wrote:

>>Wolf and anonymous sound an aweful like the same person. Other than insults
>>they have little reason to add to this newsgroup.
>

>I think I can tell the difference Pimoty:
>
>Wolf is the arrogant primping peacock of a Brit with social darwinist
>pretentions and anonymous is our dingey American with World Wrestling
>Federation aspirations (could he be channeling Randy Savage?).
>

>Next!
>
>Zinj

I suggest listening to Wolf, he's the best we have of the mindset,
and provides valuable insight. Also, he has valuable ideas of his
own <gasp> that might show different methods of approaching our
favorite criminal cult. Pay attention and look for the similarities
in our positions. They're _very_ important, and the differences are
far less so.

- Brent


Eric S. Smith: Left-Field Marshal

unread,
May 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/3/98
to

In article <6igi21$snc$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
<rod_fl...@hotmail.com> wrote:

[Keith mentioned memes]

>Wow. Another of Henson's scientific discoveries and just to
>be in the lime light of the internet. Rod.

The idea of memes (heh...) has been around for a while -- it's a social
theory thing.

Now, if you want to get excited about somebody who pulls scientific
discoveries out of thin air, I'm sure that Mr. Hubbard will interest you.
He said that taking megadoses of niacin would purge you of future cancer,
for instance.

--Eric Smith

WONDERFULR

unread,
May 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/3/98
to

><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: very sad
>From: te...@skylink.net (Ted Mayett (KOX))
>Date: Fri, May 1, 1998 04:35 EDT
>Message-id: <35588802...@enews.newsguy.com>

>
>>
>>Then I noticed what he was purchasing:
>
>One day doing a picket at the big org, one of the faithful comes out
>the building and takes off walking. 20 minutes and he is back with a
>4 pack of toilet paper. It is a 20 minute walk to the supermarket.
>
>I used to donate toilet paper, coffee, styrofoam cups, plastic garbage
>bags, all kind of things like that. But never a 4 pack. It is just
>not worth my time to stand in line to purchase a 4 pack.
>
>Come on whipper, do a snappy reply to this.

As you asked:

1. It is *ME* (not Whipper) you wanted the snappy reply from! Can't
believe you got us confused, Ted.

2. As you spend so much time picketing and otherwise doing things that
produce so little, it may in fact BE worth your time to stand in line to
purchase a 4 pack.

Happy now? :-)

WONDERFULR

unread,
May 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/3/98
to

><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: very sad
>From: The Momentary Delurker <del...@molly.hh.org>
>Date: Fri, May 1, 1998 08:12 EDT
>Message-id: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980501...@molly.hh.org>

>
>
>On Fri, 1 May 1998, Keith Henson wrote:
>
>> The Momentary Delurker (del...@molly.hh.org) wrote:
>>

>>
>> : I suddenly saw myself twelve years ago in this young man.
>>
>> : It was a very sad picture.
>>
>> Yeah, never been there myself, but this one brought tears. Next time
>> invite him out for a meal. Keith Henson
>
>
>I should have. But I'm a coward, afraid of getting anywhere near
>scientology again.
>

Nothing to fear. You are not even close.

>Twelve years ago I spent my last 50 cents on a hostess fruit pie in
>the store right across from the mission, desperate for enough
>calories to get me through the TRs scheduled to last until 11pm and
>terrified of being late to class, already having done TRs all day.
>
>Several staff members noticed and commented on that fruit pie before
>I ate it in the break room later on. I remember one fellow I didn't
>know recounting his "wins" that day and his was, "I went grocery
>shopping today and even though I didn't have much money I really got
>a lot of food."

That is a nice big win.

>
>On the way back to the staff house one lady joked, "If you do enough
>TRs you don't need much sleep!"
>

She sounds like a moron.


>We got to the house and everyone immediately disappeared into their
>rooms. I imagined that they all ate privately in their rooms. I
>was very hungry but afraid to ask anyone.

I am starting to think you may have some fears, Delurk.


>
>Someone was kind enough to give me an extra blanket that night. It
>was cold. I slept on the living room floor. There was no furniture.


>
>It all seemed very surreal and still does.
>

Right out of Kafka.

>I blew early the next morning. It took me several years to get my
>head back together and sometimes I'm still not too sure... Thank
>God I wasn't on staff any longer because I surely would have been
>sucked in forever.

Don't think so. You were and are in fear. Making decisions (of any type) is a
problem.


>
>Delurk

You have my permission to speak to Scientologists and not rush into a mission
or an org. It is okay. You can even do it here if you like.

WONDERFULR

unread,
May 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/3/98
to

><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: very sad
>From: The Momentary Delurker <del...@molly.hh.org>
>Date: Fri, May 1, 1998 08:59 EDT
>Message-id: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980501...@molly.hh.org>
>
>
>On 1 May 1998, WONDERFULR wrote:
>
>> Were you really into small tomatoes and lunch meat 12 years ago?
>
>Thanks for the flamage.
>
>You know, the one thing that is generally asked of us as human
>beings is to try to treat one another decently.
>

I agree.

>You really ought to make a point of trying it once during your
>lifetime.
>

How would you like me to treat you better?

>It will probably make you feel better than all that auditing does.
>Cheaper too.
>

Help is the basis of *all* association. So I agree with your statement.


>Cheers,
>Delurk

Take care,

Russell

The Momentary Delurker

unread,
May 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/3/98
to

On 3 May 1998, WONDERFULR wrote:

(pardon my unconventional quoting style, I've really chopped this
post... Delurk)

WONDERFULR wrote:
> >> Were you really into small tomatoes and lunch meat 12 years ago?

Delurk wrote:
> >Thanks for the flamage.
> >
> >You know, the one thing that is generally asked of us as human
> >beings is to try to treat one another decently.

WONDERFULR wrote:
> I agree.

Delurk wrote:
> >You really ought to make a point of trying it once during your
> >lifetime.

WONDERFULR wrote:
> How would you like me to treat you better?

Delurk wrote:
> >It will probably make you feel better than all that auditing does.
> >Cheaper too.

WONDERFULR wrote:
> Help is the basis of *all* association. So I agree with your statement.
>

> Take care,
>
> Russell


Look Russell, there are some pretty simple principles here. "How
would you like me to treat you better?" This is Usenet, you don't
need to treat me at all... other than engaging in discourse. (Which
you now have, and I respect that)

I snipped all of your flamage before, so I can't really response
to any of that at this time. I can respond to the stuff in this post
however.

> Help is the basis of *all* association. So I agree with your
statement.

I've read a lot of Flubbooks. "Help is the basis of *all*
association" is not something I remember, perhaps it is buried
somewhere in "Axioms and Logics." My personal failure is that
I have not gone out to feed hungry scientologists.

I'm a coward, freely admitted. scientology screwed up my head
for a number of years and I'm afraid to get anywhere near it
PT because if I was so susceptible once I damned well better
watch my ass now.

I've watched this "Re: very sad" thread degenerate into the
typical ARS noise. Note that this isn't bad, the background
noise is what is really valuable here, it's what gives the
typical lurker an understanding of what the real issues really
are.

> I agree.

OK, to address your first ARC. "treat one another decently"
This really is the most important thing in the world. In one
paraphrase or another it does seem to me that it is the prime
directive for human beings.

My best regards,


Cheers,
Delurk

Zinj

unread,
May 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/3/98
to

In article <Pine.LNX.3.96.980503...@molly.hh.org>,
del...@molly.hh.org says...
My first inclination was to chop stuff off here before I started to write.

My second is to say.. no.. I don't want it out of context.

Russ, despite his totally innapriate and libelous page is not a person who is
not talkable to.

The only reason that that page is still up is because the critics who are
being attacked don't have the money that the so called Church has.

For a scientologist who's ultimnate goal is 'Survivival' that is enough.
Just rememember that when you hear a Scientologist speak of 'ethics'

This means you Russ.

There is somnething rotten in the state of 'Clear'

© Anti-Cult ®

unread,
May 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/3/98
to

On 03 May 1998 08:26:30 GMT.
wonde...@aol.com (WONDERFULR).
From: AOL http://www.aol.com.
Wrote on the subject: Re: very sad:

>><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: very sad
>>From: The Momentary Delurker <del...@molly.hh.org>

Shame on you WonderAss. No compassion whatsoever. Look here folks, see
what the criminal cult does to a person.

May you burn in hell WonderAss, together with your insane cult founder.
You're truly an ugly example of a braiwashed scientologist. I spit in
your general direction. Spit, spit, spit.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Finally the truth from a Scientologist:

Everyone knows that in Scientology no one worships a God or God,
no one prays or engages in religious ritual in that sense.

"miKe" <Darkne...@msn.com>
------------------------------------------------------------------

wgert

unread,
May 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/3/98
to

On Sat, 2 May 1998 05:10:55 GMT, hkhe...@netcom.com (Keith Henson)
wrote:

>Franklin A Eldridge (fae...@bellsouth.net) wrote:
>: Keith Henson wrote:
>: >
>: <snipped>
>: >

>: > Delurk, it might help if you dig into memetics, evolutionary psychology


>: > and how minds are sucked into drug addiction. If you point your browser
>: > at ftp://ftp/netcom.com/pub/hk/hkhenson and look at the file "all" the
>: > last of those three articles has a model of where human vulnerabilites to
>: > cults come from, and how they work.
>

>: > Keith Henson
>: hey, Keith, I tried clicking on your URL, but I got a message that the
>: file is unobtainable...typo, or just (my) clutz-ism?
>
>Typo.
>
>ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/hk/hkhenson Keith Henson
>

Tzz. Getting old and making mistakes.

A better website is anyway at:

http://dancris.com/~rshaw


wgert

unread,
May 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/3/98
to

On Fri, 01 May 1998 18:32:45 -0700, Garry Scarff
<sca...@mindspring.com> wrote:

>wgert wrote:
>>
>> In buying some groceries in a little grocery store I noticed a fellow


>> behind me. Medium height, thin and wearing a rather rumpled shirt, tie

>> and slacks. His hair was a bit longish, as though overdue for a
>> haircut. The tie had ketchup blops all over. Shirt and tie is rather


>> unusual attire for the area and since I was wearing a light jacket
>> because it was a cool evening I thought he must not have walked very
>> far.
>>

>> Then I noticed what he was purchasing: two very small tomatoes and

>> a small packet of lunch meat, enough to make a sandwich or two in a


>> pinch, perhaps a dollar and a half purchase at best.
>>

>> I realized then that he was in all likelyhood one of the critics from
>> the net, probably a low level arscc member. whom I knew from
>> experience that poverty was epidemic among low level posters
>> around there; resources entirely sucked up by child support
>> payments, court costs, tax payments.


>>
>> It was a very sad picture.
>>

>> I wish I could have done something for him to change his hateful
>> attitude.
>>
>> wgert
>
>You will, wgert. What you saw in your vision was Dennis Erlich, a
>penniless transient after losing his public benefits when the government
>finds they'd been lied to and manipulated. Keep those coins handy,
>wgert.

That wasn't a vision - that was for real. But I had no clue that was
poor Dennis. My oh my.

wgert


David Gerard

unread,
May 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/3/98
to

On 1 May 1998 10:16:56 -0700, mar...@islandnet.com (Martin Hunt) wrote:

:A lot of staffers go hungry. I have a proposal: a volunteer food
:truck to visit Cedars and give away sandwiches and drinks. I bet
:it wouldn't be hard to get hungry people to line up for a bite
:right outside the complex.


They won't dare take the food, of course. But it will help them make the
decision to blow.


--
http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fun/ AGSF Unit 0|4 http://suburbia.net/~fun/
Stop JUNK EMAIL Boycott AMAZON.COM http://mickc.home.mindspring.com/index1.htm
"One day the almighty clue bird will shit on your head" - oddlystrange

Keith Henson

unread,
May 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/3/98
to

wgert (wg...@loop.com) wrote:
: On Sat, 2 May 1998 05:10:55 GMT, hkhe...@netcom.com (Keith Henson)
: wrote:

snip

: >Typo.


: >
: >ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/hk/hkhenson Keith Henson
: >
: Tzz. Getting old and making mistakes.

: A better website is anyway at:

: http://dancris.com/~rshaw

Read them both, and don't forget that wgert mentioned that he had found
references to me being a gay porn star. Keith Henson


Ted Mayett (KOX)

unread,
May 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/3/98
to

On 03 May 1998 08:18:02 GMT, wonde...@aol.com (WONDERFULR) wrote:

>2. As you spend so much time picketing and otherwise doing things that
>produce so little, it may in fact BE worth your time to stand in line to
>purchase a 4 pack.
>
>Happy now? :-)

Good enough.


--
Ted Mayett OT 1.1
http://xenu.phys.uit.no/cgi-bin/globloc.cgi

Captain Nerd

unread,
May 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/3/98
to

In article <354c82d9...@news.loop.com>, wgert <wg...@loop.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 2 May 1998 05:10:55 GMT, hkhe...@netcom.com (Keith Henson)
>wrote:
>
>>Franklin A Eldridge (fae...@bellsouth.net) wrote:
>>: Keith Henson wrote:
>>: >
>>: <snipped>
>>: >
>>: > Delurk, it might help if you dig into memetics, evolutionary psychology
>>: > and how minds are sucked into drug addiction. If you point your browser
>>: > at ftp://ftp/netcom.com/pub/hk/hkhenson and look at the file "all" the
>>: > last of those three articles has a model of where human vulnerabilites to
>>: > cults come from, and how they work.
>>
>>: > Keith Henson
>>: hey, Keith, I tried clicking on your URL, but I got a message that the
>>: file is unobtainable...typo, or just (my) clutz-ism?
>>
>>Typo.
>>
>>ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/hk/hkhenson Keith Henson
>>
>Tzz. Getting old and making mistakes.
>
>A better website is anyway at:
>
>http://dancris.com/~rshaw
>
>
>
Wow! Now this is an interesting wgert! Notice the "Tzz." Is
this some kind of expletive? Or perhaps a sound effect word
(I can't remember how to spell onomatopoea 8-), in some other
language? It's almost like he's trying to do a buzzer, like
the "Bzzt" or "Bzzz" sound, but is rendering it in something
other than English, and the translator left it alone. Notice
the word order in the next line: "A better website is anyway at:"
Definitely not North American or British English word order!
Meine Deutsche ist *sehr* shlecht 8-) but even I can recognize
German word order. Interesting that it's showing up as a
reply to a Keith Henson post. Maybe I was premature in
thinking there were wgerts with assigned critics. Or maybe
they're switching off with each other for some reason?
The "Deutsche" wgert usually posts with the reply *before*
the quoted text, too. Maybe they switched news software, as
well? Perhaps a different computer?

Okay, wgerts, I was wrong, you *can* tell a lot from a short
post!

Cap.

--
===============================================================================
= Mail: cpt...@acces.digex.net Web: http://www.access.digex.net/~cptnerd =
= "By the taping of my glasses, something geeky this way passes" =
===============================================================================

Garry Scarff

unread,
May 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/3/98
to

David Gerard wrote:
>
> On 1 May 1998 10:16:56 -0700, mar...@islandnet.com (Martin Hunt) wrote:
>
> :A lot of staffers go hungry. I have a proposal: a volunteer food
> :truck to visit Cedars and give away sandwiches and drinks. I bet
> :it wouldn't be hard to get hungry people to line up for a bite
> :right outside the complex.
>
> They won't dare take the food, of course. But it will help them make the
> decision to blow.

Blow who?

Xenu Mania

unread,
May 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/4/98
to

They would take it if a token amount were charged, 25 or 30 cents. One of
the many ways to get a Scientologist indentured servant to blow is to give
him/her an ice cream sundae. Scientology need never be mentioned. They
can make the connection themselves easy enough. :-)

Joe Cisar

reply to: iy...@cleveland.freenet.edu
German Scientology News - http://cisar.org

Two Lies: Billion Year Contract, "Freeloader's Debt"


Martin Hunt

unread,
May 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/4/98
to

In article <35599ae6...@thingy.apana.org.au>,
f...@thingy.apana.org.au (David Gerard) wrote:

>On 1 May 1998 10:16:56 -0700, mar...@islandnet.com (Martin Hunt) wrote:
>
>:A lot of staffers go hungry. I have a proposal: a volunteer food
>:truck to visit Cedars and give away sandwiches and drinks. I bet
>:it wouldn't be hard to get hungry people to line up for a bite
>:right outside the complex.
>
>They won't dare take the food, of course. But it will help them make the
>decision to blow.

They might; a food truck pays regular visits to the complex, parking
just in front of the ASHO steps. If one were to show up at lunchtime
and the prices were free, well...

Public and a few staffers who had money before joining Scn and
still have a bit left or who have family who send them money buy
stuff from the truck, as well as the canteen close to the cafeteria
or the little store across the street from one of the wings.

The cruel fact is that many people in the complex go hungry despite
the food all around them; it's torture for them to see it all,
and go without due to abject poverty or "ethics conditions", ie,
punishment. Even the US penal system doesn't punish via starvation.
The only places that do that outside of the Scientology cult are
3rd world jailhouses and, possibly, some remaining POW camps. Can
anyone say cruel and unusual punishment?

--
Cogito, ergo sum. http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~av282/
"In South Africa, a Bantu's withholds read not on the needle alone
but on the Tone Arm as well. The Tone Arm goes up as much as two
divisions (3 to 5) just before you get off a bad withhold on one."
- L. Ron Hubbard, E-Meter Essentials, page 23.


David Gerard

unread,
May 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/4/98
to

On Mon, 4 May 1998 07:32:11 -0400, Xenu Mania <fi...@address.in.sigfile>
wrote:

:On Sun, 3 May 1998, David Gerard wrote:
:> On 1 May 1998 10:16:56 -0700, mar...@islandnet.com (Martin Hunt) wrote:

:> :A lot of staffers go hungry. I have a proposal: a volunteer food
:> :truck to visit Cedars and give away sandwiches and drinks. I bet
:> :it wouldn't be hard to get hungry people to line up for a bite
:> :right outside the complex.

:> They won't dare take the food, of course. But it will help them make the
:> decision to blow.

:They would take it if a token amount were charged, 25 or 30 cents.


Of course - principle of exchange! Brilliant!

But would they accept food from a bunch of SPs, even for money?


: One of


:the many ways to get a Scientologist indentured servant to blow is to give
:him/her an ice cream sundae. Scientology need never be mentioned. They
:can make the connection themselves easy enough. :-)


Could someone please field-test one of these ideas?

"God, you have pissed me off to the point where I really wanna cut off your
face and bitch slap your skull." - Individuation

Baba ROM DOS

unread,
May 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/4/98
to

Martin Hunt wrote:
>
> In article <Pine.LNX.3.96.980501...@molly.hh.org>,
> The Momentary Delurker <del...@molly.hh.org> wrote:
>
> >I don't like seeing people go hungry. Hopefully I was mistaken and
> >that wasn't the case at all with this fellow. It just brought back a
> >lot of my own experiences when I was "on staff."

>
> A lot of staffers go hungry. I have a proposal: a volunteer food
> truck to visit Cedars and give away sandwiches and drinks. I bet
> it wouldn't be hard to get hungry people to line up for a bite
> right outside the complex.

This is not the first time I have seen this proposed in the
newsgroup. It's an excellent, excellent idea. If the objective
is to immunize the public, pickets and Xenu flyers seem to be
pretty effective. But they can at the same time create a
bunker mentality that will only increase the control exercised
by the "Church" over staff. Being unconditionally nice to
them would (a) be humanitarian, and (b) undermine the "Church"'s
control system. I don't live close enought to an org to be
able to do much in person (and besides, I don't exist), but
I would certainly pledge $50 toward a Food for Staff project
in LA, and send more money later if it was well done the
first time out. A few thoughts on such a program:


1) While I'm not exactly advocating "love bombing", it should
be remembered that this is a humanitarian exercise. High
profile, combattive critics ought not to be present. Don't
harangue staff or force leaflets on them. Be nice. Be
sympathetic. At most, ask them if they often go hungry,
and ask them why.

2) On the other hand, be very clear with every "customer"
who asks why we are doing this: because we think they
are being abused by "Church" policy and management,
because a hungry person cannot "think for himself".

3) One to a customer. Do not let management become an
intermediary.

4) It would be best done as a periodic thing, not just a
one-off. Pick a rhythm that would be sustainable with
the funds and vounteer time available, say once a month,
and stick to it for at least a while. Get them conditioned
to look forward to the visit of Xenu's Roach Coach.

Scott A. McClare

unread,
May 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/4/98
to

David Gerard (f...@thingy.apana.org.au) writes:

> But would they accept food from a bunch of SPs, even for money?

Who's gonna tell them? If you're too recognizable yourself around the
org, find one of your friends who's willing to do this.

Something to keep in mind is that giving away free food, no strings
attached, is often regarded with suspicion. The InterVarsity Christian
Fellowship chapter at the U. of Waterloo gave away free hot chocolate
outside the library one cold day last winter, just for fun and to be nice.
They got all sorts of questions.

Scott
--
Scott A. McClare SP4 GGBC#42 "I see you now and then in dreams
cj...@freenet.carleton.ca Your voice sounds just like it used to
http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~cj871/ I believe I will hear it again
PGP 1024/E7950B29 via finger/keyserver God how I love you" - Mark Heard

Garry Scarff

unread,
May 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/4/98
to

Martin Hunt wrote:
>
> In article <35599ae6...@thingy.apana.org.au>,
> f...@thingy.apana.org.au (David Gerard) wrote:
>
> >On 1 May 1998 10:16:56 -0700, mar...@islandnet.com (Martin Hunt) wrote:
> >
> >:A lot of staffers go hungry. I have a proposal: a volunteer food

> >:truck to visit Cedars and give away sandwiches and drinks. I bet
> >:it wouldn't be hard to get hungry people to line up for a bite
> >:right outside the complex.
> >
> >They won't dare take the food, of course. But it will help them make the
> >decision to blow.
>
> They might; a food truck pays regular visits to the complex, parking
> just in front of the ASHO steps. If one were to show up at lunchtime
> and the prices were free, well...
>
> Public and a few staffers who had money before joining Scn and
> still have a bit left or who have family who send them money buy
> stuff from the truck, as well as the canteen close to the cafeteria
> or the little store across the street from one of the wings.
>
> The cruel fact is that many people in the complex go hungry despite
> the food all around them; it's torture for them to see it all,
> and go without due to abject poverty or "ethics conditions", ie,
> punishment. Even the US penal system doesn't punish via starvation.
> The only places that do that outside of the Scientology cult are
> 3rd world jailhouses and, possibly, some remaining POW camps. Can
> anyone say cruel and unusual punishment?

Martin Hunt is a liar! His hate of Scientology and it's adherents is so
much that he is compelled to lie and misrepresent himself just get
another insult in to Scientology. ASHO has a large cafeteria in it's
basement which staff members share their meals and often take their
breaks in. While working at ASHO, I took my breaks and had my meals in
the cafeteria, except for the occasional run to the grocery across the
street for Roses, a small restaurant 2 blocks away on Fountain. Staff
members at ASHO are not starved. It's sickening to see someone so
beloved on ARS is also supported in his deliberate lies to make a point.

Dave Bird---St Hippo of Augustine

unread,
May 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/4/98