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Seven African Powers

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victo...@my-dejanews.com

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Jan 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/24/99
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The Seven African Powers whos names are;
Chango,Ochun,Orula,Yemaya,Ogun,Obatala
and Elegua have much power and if worshiped
can help in any situation.

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see...@my-dejanews.com

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Jan 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/25/99
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In article <78e0ac$ue7$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
Hi. How do you worship them properly? And, how do you
pronounce these names? Thanks.

Blair Whitmer

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Jan 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/25/99
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>> The Seven African Powers whos names are;
>> Chango,Ochun,Orula,Yemaya,Ogun,Obatala
>> and Elegua have much power and if worshiped
>> can help in any situation.
>>
>>
> Hi. How do you worship them properly? And, how do you
>pronounce these names? Thanks.


Well, I can at least address the question of pronounciation. Lucumi, which
is (as I understand it) a Spanish-ised version of Yoruba (the language of
the Yoruban people in Africa where Orisha worship originated), uses Latin
vowels. In other words, the vowels are pronounced the same as in Spanish
and other romance languages. (i) is "ee" as in the Spanish "si", (e) is
"eh" as in the better, (a) is "ah" as in father, (o) is "oh" as in Ohio,
(u) is "oo" as in super, (ua) combines "oo" and "ah" into a "wah", the (ay)
in Yemaya is tricky to describe, and easy to say. The (y) modifies the (a)
before it into an "ai" sound, like the (i) in "might", but then you also
say the (ya) after it..."yem-ai-yah" with the accent on the last syllable.

I've heard multiple pronounciations of Elegua. Of the three syllables,
sometimes the accent is on the second which "softens" the hard (g) into a
swallowed "gwa" sound. When the accent is on the last syllable, the hard
(g) is more pronounced.

The rest of them are pretty simple..just a question of where the emphasese
are. Chango, Ochun, Yemaya, Ogun, and Obatala all have the accent on the
last syllable. Orula is accented on the second syllable. Another
note...the (ch) is either pronounced hard, as in "change", or it softens
into an "sh" sound.

Now, in regards to worship. That's not so easily answered. I should start
off by saying that the phrase "The Seven African Powers" is misleading.
These seven deity or "Orisha" are only seven out of a large pantheon of
Orishas. These are worshipped in several different religions brought to
the New World including Santeria (in Cuba), Candomble (in Brazil), Arara
(in Cuba) as well as many others. The phrase "Seven African Powers" is
mostly predominant in Hoodoo, information on which I will refer you to
Cat...(if you're reading :).

As a priest in Santeria, I'm biased towards the belief that *proper*
worship of Orisha requires the direct input and guidance of a priest in the
chosen religion. The same is not necessarily true if they are simply being
invoked for magical uses, but that's not really "worship"...at least not in
MY book. Personally, I would advise *extreme* caution in invoking Orisha
for magical uses without the associated religious practice and guidance
from a priest.

Hope this is at least some help....

Omi Ire Lokun

see...@my-dejanews.com

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Jan 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/26/99
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In article <blair-ya02408000...@nntp1.ba.best.com>,
Thank you for replying.

catherine yronwode

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Jan 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/26/99
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LMEA (crossposted also)

> bl...@best.com (Blair Whitmer) wrote:

> > victo...@my-dejanews.com wrote:

> > >see...@my-dejanews.com wrote:

> > > > The Seven African Powers whos names are;
> > > > Chango,Ochun,Orula,Yemaya,Ogun,Obatala
> > > > and Elegua have much power and if worshiped
> > > > can help in any situation.

> > > Hi. How do you worship them properly? And, how do you
> > > pronounce these names? Thanks.

> > Well, I can at least address the question of pronounciation.
> >
> > Lucumi, which is (as I understand it) a Spanish-ised version of
> > Yoruba (the language of the Yoruban people in Africa where Orisha
> > worship originated), uses Latin vowels. In other words, the vowels
> > are pronounced the same as in Spanish and other romance languages.
> >
> > (i) is "ee" as in the Spanish "si",
> > (e) is "eh" as in the better,
> > (a) is "ah" as in father,
> > (o) is "oh" as in Ohio,
> > (u) is "oo" as in super,
> > (ua) combines "oo" and "ah" into a "wah",

> > (ay) in Yemaya is tricky to describe, and easy to say. The (y)
> > modifies the (a) before it into an "ai" sound, like the (i) in
> > "might", but then you also say the (ya) after it..."yem-ai-yah"
> > with the accent on the last syllable.
> >
> > I've heard multiple pronounciations of Elegua. Of the three
> > syllables, sometimes the accent is on the second which "softens"
> > the hard (g) into a swallowed "gwa" sound. When the accent is on
> > the last syllable, the hard (g) is more pronounced.
> >
> > The rest of them are pretty simple..just a question of where the

> > emphases are. Chango, Ochun, Yemaya, Ogun, and Obatala all have

> > the accent on the last syllable. Orula is accented on the second
> > syllable. Another note...the (ch) is either pronounced hard, as in
> > "change", or it softens into an "sh" sound.
> >
> > Now, in regards to worship. That's not so easily answered. I
> > should start off by saying that the phrase "The Seven African
> > Powers" is misleading. These seven deity or "Orisha" are only seven
> > out of a large pantheon of Orishas. These are worshipped in
> > several different religions brought to the New World including
> > Santeria (in Cuba), Candomble (in Brazil), Arara (in Cuba) as well
> > as many others. The phrase "Seven African Powers" is mostly
> > predominant in Hoodoo, information on which I will refer you to
> > Cat...(if you're reading :).
> >
> > As a priest in Santeria, I'm biased towards the belief that
> > *proper* worship of Orisha requires the direct input and
> > guidance of a priest in the chosen religion. The same is not
> > necessarily true if they are simply being invoked for magical
> > uses, but that's not really "worship"...at least not in MY book.
> > Personally, I would advise *extreme* caution in invoking Orisha
> > for magical uses without the associated religious practice and
> > guidance from a priest.

Thanks for the pronunciation guide, Blair.

Now, as to the use of the Seven African Powers in hoodoo magic, i have
some opinions -- not substabntiated by citations from scholarly
materials, but rather the result of my having lived through the times
described and having witnessed these events. My information is not
complete, however, and i welcome any additional comments.

When i first began studying hoodoo in the mid-1960s, i saw no references
to the Seven African Powers or to any of the Orishas by name. There was
one obvious African cultural remnant of Ellegua / Legba / Nbumba Nzila
worship in the hoodoo "crossroads ritual," but the entity whom the
aspirant met at the crossroads was not said to be an Orisha or Loa or
Nkisi. Rather, he was verbally identified by all the folks i knew, and
in all the 20th century oral histories i later read, with the Teutonic
Devil (not the Judeo-Christian Satan, but rather Der Teufel). I assumed
that this was due to cultural cross-over dating to slavery times, a
substitution of a European wild, tricksterish crossroads god for an
African one of similar nature.

(More on the crossroads: http://www.luckymojo.com/crossroads.html )
(More on the Devil / Der Teufel: http://www.luckymojo.com/devil.html )

It was only in the late 1970s or early 1980s that i first saw the
standard image known as "The Seven African Powers" in a hoodoo supply
store. I think most of you have seen it, but, for the record, a scan and
a brief description can be found at
http://www.luckymojo.com/deityluck#7AFRICANPOWERS.html .

The central image of the painting, the crucifixion scene, is often
utilized as a separate image, called Justo Juez or, in English, Just
Judge.

The introduction of the Seven African Powers and Just Judge images into
North America coincided in time with the arrival of numerous Cuban
refugees. Practitioners of Santeria in its most Roman Catholic form,
these people tended to worship the Orishas in a manner that combined
African and Roman Catholic ritual. Thus, they required holy cards,
novena candles, novena booklets, holy medals, and other Cattholic
accoutrements. The mostly Italian (and occasionally Mexican)
manufacturers of such religious goods complied with this need, despite
the fact that the Papacy has not been friendly to Santeria.

Every religious article i have seen that bears the Seven African Powers
or Just Judge image is either a full-colour reproduction of the original
painting or a rendering of it into line-art. That is, unlike figures of
Christ or Mary, which come in numerous artistic variations (pale or
dark-skinned; Semitic, Germanic, Slavic, or African; happy, sad, pained,
compassionate, or stern; standing, sitting, floating, or reclining;
alive, dead, transfigured, or ephemeral), there is only ONE complete
Seven African Powers image and only ONE Just Judge detail that is
cropped out of it. This image was painted by someone both artistically
talented and well versed in standard Catholic iconography, for the the
saints depicted as "covers" for the Orishas are hagiographically correct
in all details.

There is one oddity about the image, however: it is more or less square
in proportion, not a vertical rectangle. Thus it is not easily adaptable
to being printed on a standard Catholic holy card of the kind
mass-produced in Italy, nor will it readily fit on the vertical
rectangular label of a glass-encased novena candle. In order for it to
be utilized on such articles, bordering elements must be added to it at
top and bottom. The Italian holy cards bearing this image that i sell in
my shop have a lovely sepia-charcoal graduated fade at top and bottom to
make up the length of the image; similar cards from Mexico have a garish
flat cyan backround. The Just Judge detail-image can only be roughly
cropped to fit the vertical rectangle of a holy card or novena candle
label; in doing so, part of the picture to each side is lost. The
Italian Just Judge holy cards i sell are cropped in such a way that they
fill the card entirely, but part of the scene is cut away.

Because the Seven African Powers and Just Judge images do not really fit
the proportions of the articles to which they are applied, i have always
assumed that the original painting was not commissioned by an Italian
holy card manufacturer, but was adapted by them from a specific painting
that had became an object of cult interst in Cuba at an earlier time. .

Another reason for assuming that the Seven African Powers image was
created outside the ecclesiatical mainstream is Blair's comment above
that the Orishas depicted are not the entire pantheon; they seem to be
simply the artist's favourite seven, or, more likely, those given the
most prominence in his or her house of worship. The image as it stands
gives newcomers to the religion a slightly skewed set of information
about who the Orishas are, as it serves to consolidate the prominence of
those seven deities over the others. It is, in some sense, a hegemonic
statement, albeit doubtless produced with innocent motives.

Now, even as this Seven African Powers image was meeting general
acceptance in the Cuban Santeria community that resulted in Italian
production of it as a holy card, an entirely unrelated event was
occuring, namely, the immigration of a wave of Santerian Cubans to
America during the late 1970s. Bearing the Seven African Powers image
with them, these folks ran smack into the ongoing African-American
social movement called African Cultural Nationalism. During the late
1970s, the popularity of the book (and later TV mini-series) "Roots,"
combined with the rhetoric of African-American political figures who
promoted "black pride" and "black power" led many people who had
previously looked down on their African ancestry to take up the wearing
of African clothing and adopt African names. Some turned from
Christianity to Islam as a statement of their disaffection with American
values; others investigated African religions. Santeria, despite the
Catholic influences that both adorned and concealed its African
character, met a real need for African-centered religious expression in
the African-American community. Even among those who retained their
Baptist, A.M.E., C.O.G., or Pentacostal Christian religious
affiliations, the Seven Afircan Powers image -- with its entrancing
title "AFRICAN" -- cast a warming glow.

This cultural mingling was all taking place during a time when
traditional old-style hoodoo suppliers were slowly going out of
business due to the age of the proprietors and/or were being bought up
by one surviving company, International Imports (a.k.a. Indio Products).
As immigration from Latin Amercia increased, the static or shrinking
African-American hoodoo spiritual supply market sector Indio served was
slowly eclipsed by the newly developing botanica market, and Indio began
to slant its product base toward Spanish-speaking Santeria customers.
The Seven African Powers name and image were applied to many products at
this time, as Indio standardized the former proliferation of hoodoo
supplies into a streamlined and uniform set of hoodoo-cum-Santeria
products.

Since the 1920s, if not earlier, hoodoo conjures and root workers were
used to working with a pan-cultural mixture of imagery in their magical
practices -- including Jewish kabbalism (e.g. "Secrets of the Psalms"),
Japanese Shinto-influenced Buddhism (e.g. "Hotei, The Lucky Buddha"),
German and French invocatory magic (e.g. Albertus Magnus' Egyptian
Secrets" and "The Black Pullet"), Catholic ritualism (e.g. devotionary
candle-burning), Mediterranean folklore (e.g. belief in the Evil Eye),
and alleged Romany divination systems (e.g. "Gypsy Witch Fortune Telling
Cards"). The cross-cultual nature of hoodoo and the "African" name
almost guaranteed that the Seven African Powers image would be readily
integrated into the hoodoo catalogue of efficacious articles. Despite
Protestant Christian unfamiliarity with Catholic saints or Lucumi
Orishas, the central figure of Christ crucified conveyed a powerful and
familiar message to most African-Americans and the word "AFRICAN"
supplied a strong incentive for acceptance.

Thus, in the early 1980s the Seven African Powers name entered hoodoo as
an all-purpose power-enhancing magical formula, considered to be
equivalent to John the Conqueror or Commanding Power in its presumed
effects, and used in much he same manner -- with the added value of
conveying African Cultural Nationaism or black pride as well. At the
same time, the Just Judge detail-image, due to its evocative name,
became associated with, and began to be used as an equivalent to, the
already extant hoodoo magical formula called Court Case.

While worship of the Just Judge can be integrated into conventional
Protestant worship of Jesus Christ, worship of the Seven African Powers
is not found in hoodoo, as far as i can tell. Rather, the name and image
are used in magical rites only, for the purpose of enhancing personal
power.

Other Santeria-influenced spiritual supplies bearing the names or
likenesses of Orishas have had less success in penetrating the
Protestant Christian hoodoo market. Chango Macho candles are
occasionally sold to men in hoodoo stores, due to the presence on them
of the familar word "macho," which has entered the English langiuage as
a borrowing from Spanish. They are used much like John the Conqueror
candles, to increase virility. Yemaya and Ellegua candles, on the other
hand, although widely available in American botanicas, do not seem to be
found in many hoodoo supply stores at the present time, except in mixed
Latino and African-American neighborhoods which share a Protestant /
Santeria customer base.

If anyone has further information on the origin of the Seven African
Powers image -- especially the name of the painter and the date and
place the picture first appeared in print -- i would be very grateful to
hear about it and would update my database accordingly.

catherine yronwode

Lucky Mojo Curio Co: http://www.luckymojo.com/luckymojocatalogue.html
The Lucky W Amulet Archive: http://www.luckymojo.com/luckyw.html
Sacred Sex: http://www.luckymojo.com/sacredsex.html
The Sacred Landscape: http://www.luckymojo.com/sacredland.html
Freemasonry for Women: http://www.luckymojo.com/comasonry.html
Comics Warehouse: http://www.luckymojo.com/comicswarehouse.html
check out news:alt.lucky.w for discussions on folk magic and luck

BaddM0J0

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Jan 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/26/99
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>The Seven African Powers, whos names >are;

>Chango,Ochun,Orula,Yemaya,Ogun,Obatala
>and Elegua have much power and if >worshiped can help in any situation.


7 African Powers is also used in regards to an oil "formula" of/for general
usage in hoodoo.
It is made up of seven different ingredients that are thought to honor the 7
orishas named above and is for that reason also used in just about any
situation. It is probably the best smelling oil I have ever found and made. I
love it for everything when I make it freshly.
I have noticed a variance in ingredients however between recipes for the oil as
opposed to the herbal bath or powder.
Anyone else have any musings on this?


Peace,

*MoJo*

"What ever Works..."

http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/9084/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/9084/index.html


John M Hansen

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Jan 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/27/99
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Thank you Catherine for that excellent article.

The origin of the Seven African Powers is somewhat more obscure.
Painting aside, there is a real reason for the presence of the number eight
in magical practices. The seven African Powers along with the Just Judge,
make up the eight.
A few things to consider:
The leading publisher of spiritual training materials in the world uses
the name Octagon.
In ancient Egypt there were considered to be eight parts to the human
soul.
There is a magical practice which is both very secret and initiatory,
and which has never been written about that is known as 'Working with the
Octagon.' It is from this ancient practice that the Jewish mystical system
known as the Kabbalah was drawn, modified for use in the Jewish religious
practice. This happened about 900 AD, and resulted in the writing of the
Zohar, about 1000 AD.
In accordance with all of the above, the picture must be square to
indicate the proper distribution of the Seven African Powers with the Just
Judge in the center.
Now with the above in mind, think about the person who has integrated
all of the eight parts of themselves. That person would be able to perfume
marvelous things, because they would be perfectly integrated human beings.
Thus the real story about the Seven African Powers comes out a bit.

By the way, the statue of 'Chango Macho' which is so popular among the
Santeros was originally made by a Portuguese artist, and given to the Ono of
Ile Ife (King of Ile Ife) by the King of Portugal in the early 1400's.

Best Wishes,
John M. Hansen

Inle

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Jan 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/28/99
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Hello Guys & Gals,

This is my debut to your newsgroup...only heard about it recently and am
having a look-round! I look forward to reading your posts.

Take care, have fun,

Martin

Oh yeah, for those interested in knowing an 8th African Power ;-) I have a
website on the orisha Erinle:
http://www.inle.freeserve.co.uk/
Maybe we should market a new candle, the "401 African Powers" LOL.


Denise Oliver-Velez

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Jan 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/30/99
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Thanks to Cat and Blair for the postings on this topic. I 'd just
like to add that my first introduction to Las Siete Potencias (the
Seven Powers) was when I was a teenager (a long time ago - grin),
through the mother of a friend - who was not a Santera (not a
priestess in the Cuban/Puerto Rican Lucumi tradition),
but was a well-known "espiritista" or "medium" in El Barrio (Spanish
Harlem) in the 1950's and 60's.

The first "misa"(spiritual mass) I ever attended was in her home, and
the first "reading" I ever had was with her. She gave me a beaded
necklace of many colors and told me to wear it for protection. She
also had me buy a Seven African Powers candle to burn - like the one
depicted on your web page Cat - and at times I bought the ones without
the picture, but with the layers of colors - representing the
different powers. This woman did not practice Santeria, or Palo -in
fact she made a point of stating that regularly. At the time I didn't
understand the difference. What made it even more confusing to me,
was that there were (and are) Santero/as who also work the Mesa Blanca
(practice espiritismo)

In later years, as I became more involved in the Lucumi tradition,
I realized that the Seven Powers were Orisha - and became interested
in questions about why those particular 7 were selected- as Blair
pointed out, other Orisha are missing. I wondered if the numerical
significance of 7 was important, or if it had more to do with the
Orisha one receives as part of the initiation to the priesthood -
except that Orula or Orunmila, is more associated with Babalawo's and
Ifa. One can be a priest without having received Orula - Elegua's
presence as part of the seven is understandable, since without the
Opener of Doors, no ceremonies can take place.

I have never seen a santero/a wearing the seven powers beads (but some
may - I just haven't seen it)- but see lots of folk in el Barrio with
them - many who have a neck load of "blessed beads" from Espiritistas.

I do remember seeing the candles when I visited in Mexico.

I look forward to hearing more of the history of this topic.....

Alafia,

Iyawo

Denise Oliver-Velez

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Jan 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/30/99
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Greetings Martin,
Welcome to the newsgroup!
Love your webpages - my husband has insisted that I print out every
article, which he has been sharing with his godfather who has Ochosi
crowned.

Look forward to hearing from you,

Alafia,

Iyawo

On Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:47:36 -0000, "Inle" <Porr...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

John M. Hansen

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Jan 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/30/99
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    The necklace known as the seven African powers necklace is often given by espiritistas and other workers in the field of spiritual work.  It is usually purchased in botanicas and given to clients for their aid or protection.  They are as powerful as the person making the prayer over them, or giving them to some one, can make them.  
    These necklaces relate directly to seven of the eight forces that the ancient Egyptians knew as the components of the human being.  See my previous post about this.  
Regards,
John M Hansen
jmha...@erols.com  
 

E. C. Ballard

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Jan 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/30/99
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Welcome. Kiambote! Alafia.

Eoghan

--
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Nsambiempungo l'acutara
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
ebal...@sas.upenn.edu

E. C. Ballard

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Jan 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/30/99
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In article <22215-36...@newsd-103.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
PAN...@webtv.net (Mitchell) wrote:

Greetings and Sala Malecum John Nelson,

Hey John, When did you change your name?

> I'm afraid you have been badly misinformed when you state that a off the
> wall beaded necklace from a botanica is the same as a eleke made in
> proper ceremony and given in proper ceremony. <b>There is alot more to
> an eleke, any eleke than just stringing some beads together and selling
> them to tourists, there is a whole lot more in the ceremony of recieving
> the elekes than putting them around your neck.</b><p> Orishas and
> Spirits of the Dead are not kept side by side in my temple nor in any of
> the several lukumi iles that I have belonged or do belong to. They are
> in my opinion separate.

I beleive John Hansen was referring to what is often common practice. That
doesn't imply either approval or an equation between that and more
conservative practice. As for what your 7 iles do or don't do, that hardly
consititutes a universal practice. In the US you will find many that have
no such qualms. My own experience in Cuba suggests that the lines between
the two are seldom that well drawn. I don't mean to say that your
experience is in anyway unusual, simply that it isn't as universal as one
might imply from your remarks.

Sala Maleko,

Eoghan

Tata Enkise 7 Rayos Quimbisa SCBV

John M. Hansen

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Jan 31, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/31/99
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    My point was that the purchased necklaces are NOT an eleke.  However, like anything else in the universe, they can be given a magical 'charge.'   If the espiritista can charge the seven African powers necklace, she can use it to protect her clients.   
    If the espiritista has no personal power (Ache' or Barakah) she can NOT give the necklace a magical charge.  
    The eleke is a religious symbol.  (Among many other things)  the seven African powers necklace, of seven different colored beads, is a magical charm. 
    A horse chestnut when used to prevent or cure arthritic conditions is a magical charm.  If it is not prepared for this use by one who has magical powers, it will not work.  So far as I know it can not be confused with a religious symbol, like the seven African powers necklace can be. 

E. C. Ballard

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Jan 31, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/31/99
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In article <11829-36...@newsd-101.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
PAN...@webtv.net (Mitchell) wrote:

> --WebTV-Mail-1848353251-1187
> Content-Type: Text/HTML; Charset=US-ASCII
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit
>


Kindly don't put words in my mouth. Again, you make great leaps with small
statements. I referred to the purchase of a necklace from a botanica by an
espiritista who then blesses it according to their particular tradition
(the original reference here) as being a common practice. At no point did
I specifically refer to elekes at all. I then went on to the issue of how
differing houses deal with the nfumbe in relation to the orichas. A
completely different subject but one to which you had referred. I never
once said anything about how elekes are made in Ocha. Please read more
carefully before responding.

Sala Maleko,

Eoghan
Tata Enkise 7 Rayos Qumbisa SCBV

Martin

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Jan 31, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/31/99
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Dear Eoghan, Everyone,

I have often wondered about this 7 African Powers necklace thing, (only ever
heard/read about it...no one seems to have one LOL) especially as it forms
no part of my Lucumi ile's practices. The closest neckalace we have for more
than one Orisha is the Two-Waters/ Dos Aguas ileke consecrated when one
receives this ashe. This has its roots in odu, of course.

It makes sense to me that the 7 A.P necklace is a part of spiritism and
that, to the spiritist's eyes it not necessarily represents "orisha" but
"African powers." I do not know if this is the whole story or not...I would
like to know if some Iya/Babalorisha give a necklace of the 7 orisha and its
origin.

I thought that people seeing the multi-coloured necklaces of Aganju (brown
and milky w/ other colours interspersed) or Osanyin (multicoloured) had
simply been misconstrued by some as representing more than one orisha!

Martin


E. C. Ballard wrote in message ...

E. C. Ballard

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Jan 31, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/31/99
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In article <11832-36...@newsd-101.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
PAN...@webtv.net (Mitchell) wrote:

>Sala Malecum, Malecum Sala John Hansen,I have carefully read
>over your previous post and cannot find where you distinctly stated what
>you were talking about was not an eleke. After I wrote that I had
>observed only Babalawo's giving the eleke known as The 7 African Powers
>to a fully initiated Santero/Santera then John Nelson wrote :The


>necklace known as the seven African powers necklace is often given by
>espiritistas and other workers in the field of spiritual work. It is
>usually purchased in botanicas and given to clients for their aid or
>protection.

Really Mitchell, I am somewhat confused by your posts. It appears that
when you continually refer to John Nelson, you mean John Hansen and you
respond to John about remarks that I have made. Since no one here is
claiming that a 7 African powers necklace is an Ocha Eleke, it stands to
reason that he did not clarify that point. That was your assumption. He
doesn't mention it, I remarked on what my interpretation of his intent
was.

As for the confusion over my remarks, I will grant that my comments
shifted in mid paragraph (a bad scribal error on my part) however, if you
had followed your own remarks quoted above mine as you read, you would
probably have understood my intent. I am sorry if that wasn't clear.

Mitchell, there is something good to be said about electronic
communication, and something negative. The exchange is the good part.
However, we all respond far too swiftly. When we write letters, we take
more time. I am as guilty as the next.

Sala Maleko,

Eoghan
Tata Enkise 7 Rayos Quimbisa SCBV

John M. Hansen

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Jan 31, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/31/99
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Concerning the two waters necklace, NOT ELEKE, it originated in ancient
Babylon, and was originally dedicated to the two water deities, AE and EA,
the female deities of fresh and salt water. It was made of yellow and blue
beads made of glass. The beads were tubular, not round. There is a much
damaged example in the Oriental institute of the University of Chicago,
wrongly identified.
Those necklaces given by espiritistas are usually prayed over by the
espiritista, and not 'worked' in any ritual fashion as are those given in
initiatory practices. Those in inititory practices often give necklaces to
people for various reasons. I was given one by the Oni of Ile Ife, he told
me that he thought it would help me in life. It probably has. I have been
given others, by Mia Nina of the San Palo Candomble, as well as others
people. I doubt that any of them are the ELEKE's given to initiates, as I
am not an initiate of any of these practices. I refer to these as
necklaces, not ELEKE's.
The seven African power necklace related directly to the eight facets of
the human being, as known in Ancient Egypt. Wearing the necklace is of
benefit to those who wish to integrate their being.

Martin

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Feb 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/1/99
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Dear John,

In the Lucumi religion there is an ileke consecrated for children of Yemoja
or Oshun with Oshe'di/ Odi'she that represents Yemoja and Oshun in this Odu,
and their claim over the person. It is commonly called a 'two-waters'
necklace. I was not talking about any necklace called two waters from
Babylon, however It is interesting. Yemoja to me, is the owner of all water,
every single drop. Also, yellow beads for Oshun are a New World substitute
for brass. Yemoja's ileke in Yorubaland is comprised of clear glass beads.

Martin

John M. Hansen wrote in message <793871$h3j$1...@winter.news.rcn.net>...

Anglin

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Feb 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/2/99
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Re: Dos Aguas

Martin is Absolutely Right!

Ellen

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