Maman Brigitte, the Mother of the Gedes
Racine125
formative period of Haitian Vodou, many Scottish people were deported from
Scotland to the Antilles because of the Stuart wars, and those Scots were the
most traditionalist, the least Christianized. They were the ones who brought
Brigid to Haiti.
During this time, blacks outnumbered whites about 4000 to one. This is a
literal fact. So it is unlikely that those few whites could prevent Africans
from having drum dances - it seems to me more likely that an uneasy truce
obtained, you know, the whites said in effect, "Do your work and I will leave
you alone."
At that time the whites most likely to participate in drum dances were of
course the poor whites, not the few French elite whites. And among them, the
most likely people to participate were the women - just the folks most likely
to have preserved the service of Brigid.
(Before I go any further let me suggest that anyone who hasn't read Jayelle's
"White Women in Vodou" do so!)
Now, the first woman buried in any cemetary is by definition Brigid, and the
first man buried in any cemetary is by definition Baron. Of course when those
drum-dancing poor Scottish women died they were buried in the same earth as
Africans, and the agglomerative, pragmatic nature of Vodou as it developed
would of course naturally incorporate Brigid, and metamorphose her into Maman
Brigitte.
Now, to make Gede lwa, Maman Brigitte and Baron La Croix take souls from "under
the water" and rebaptize them. That is why all Gede lwa have the last name La
Croix, because their father is Baron La Croix. This is a real birth, out of
the waters, Baron and Brigitte are not "adoptive parents", they are as much
parents as any parent can be.
For more information on the travels of one Gede lwa, see "Biography of a Lwa"
under the Special Topics heading on The VODOU Page. And for more information
on ancestral lwa in general, see Vodou Lesson 2 under the Vodou Lesson heading
on The VODOU Page.
Peace and love,
Bon Mambo Racine Sans Bout Sa Te La Daginen
"Se bon ki ra" - Good is rare
Haitian Proverb
The VODOU Page - http://members.aol.com/racine125/index.html
Kevin Filan
Thanks for a fascinating essay on Maman Brigitte. While I can't comment
on her place in Haitian Vodou, I do have some knowledge of Scots and
British history, as well as a bit of experience doing scholarly
research. While I think you make a couple of questionable assertions,
you also have raised some interesting points.
Racine125 wrote:
>
> Maman Brigitte is a manifestation of the Celtic Goddess Brigid. During the
> formative period of Haitian Vodou, many Scottish people were deported from
> Scotland to the Antilles because of the Stuart wars, and those Scots were the
> most traditionalist, the least Christianized. They were the ones who brought
> Brigid to Haiti.
http://www.learner.org/biographyofamerica/prog13/feature/index_text.html
Tells us the first African slaves in the New World arrived in Hispaniola
in 1501... and the first slave rebellion in Hispaniola was in 1522. By
that time Scotland had been Christian for over a thousand years. While
Neopagans love to speculate about isolated villages practicing "the Olde
Pagan Customs" well into the 20th century, I've yet to see any evidence
of same. I certainly doubt VERY strongly that there were any Scotsmen
of that time, no matter how isolated a little town they came from, who
would have considered themselves "Brigid worshippers." I'm even
inclined to think that by the time of the Stuart Wars poor White
indentured servants were largely becoming a thing of the past, as the
Slave routes became well-established and the full horror of that
machinery was coming into operation. There were certainly Catholic
Scots who got the heck outta Dodge during the Stuart Wars: many of them
wound up in Catholic France or some of the French colonies. But I'm not
sure that they came to St. Dominique as indentured servants.
Here's an excerpt from http://www.scotlandspast.com/religion.htm which
shows that Christianity was well established in Scotland by the 8th
century: the whole site, BTW, is fascinating and well worth a read.
* * * * *
The first named missionary to Scotland is Ninian who is referred to in
an aside by Bede while discussing the conversion of the Picts in his
Ecclesiastical History of the English People written in 731 AD. In this
aside he says 'The southern Picts, who live on this side of the
mountains, are said to have abandoned the errors of idolatry long before
this date and accepted the true Faith through the preaching of Bishop
Ninian, a most reverend and holy man of British race, who had been
regularly instructed in the mysteries of the Christian Faith in Rome.
Ninian's own Episcopal see, named after Saint Martin and famous for its
stately church, is now held by the English, and it is here that his body
and those of many saints lie at rest. The place belongs to the province
of Bernicia and is commonly known as Candida Casa, the White House,
because he built the church of stone, which was unusual among the
Britons.' Ninian is also dealt with in Miracula Nyniae Episcopi which
also mentions a king called Tudwal, historians have used the above
evidence to date Ninian to the 5th century, about the same time as
Patrick. There have been many suggestions that Ninian operated much
further north than Galloway and dedications to him can be found as far
north as Fife and even into Angus. Although the term missionary has been
used here it is likely that Christianity of some kind already existed
and that Ninian, Columba and the other early saints were not
missionaries in the modern sense.
* * * * * *
That being said, there certainly were indentured White servants in Haiti
during the earliest days of its colonization. From
http://208.154.71.60/bcom/eb/article/6/0,5716,108616+21,00.html
* * * * *
As the English, French, Dutch, and, to a lesser extent, the Danes
colonized the smaller West Indian islands, these became plantation
settlements, largely cultivated by blacks. Before the latter arrived
in great numbers, the bulk of manual labour, especially in the English
islands, was performed by poor whites. Some were indentured, or
contract, servants; some were redemptioners who agreed to pay ship
captains their passage fees within a stated time or be sold to bidders;
others were convicts. Some were kidnapped, with the tacit approval of
the English authorities, in keeping with the mercantilist policy that
advocated getting rid of the unemployed and vagrants. Black slavery
eventually surpassed white servitude in the West Indies.
* * * * *
By the time of the Code Noir, there was some effort made to distinguish
between Blacks, mulattos, and Whites: I suspect by that time most of the
ancestors of the early indentured Whites were considered mulatto at
best. Some of the worst buccaneers of the time were headquartered on
the Island of Tortuga, an isle populated by creoles, escaped indentured
servants, escaped slaves and other "lawless riffraff." So there was
definitely mingling of the races and mingling of the cultures.
> During this time, blacks outnumbered whites about 4000 to one. This is a
> literal fact.
I was under the impression it was more like 20 to one, but if you could
cite some source which says otherwise I'd certainly be open to
correction.
> So it is unlikely that those few whites could prevent Africans
> from having drum dances - it seems to me more likely that an uneasy truce
> obtained, you know, the whites said in effect, "Do your work and I will leave
> you alone."
It generally appears that slave owners were, if anything, *hostile* to
attempts to convert their slaves. They didn't want to deal with the
responsibility of teaching these savages, never mind giving them time
off to go to church. While they punished anything which smacked of
rebellion with truly horrendous savagery, they of course weren't able to
stop every drum dance or religious service.
> At that time the whites most likely to participate in drum dances were of
> course the poor whites, not the few French elite whites. And among them, the
> most likely people to participate were the women - just the folks most likely
> to have preserved the service of Brigid.
This involves a whole bunch of assumptions, some of which may not be
true. I think the assumption that the service of Brigid was preserved
is a dubious one at best. (I'm also not sure that Brigid was
particularly popular in Scotland: I was of the impression that she was
more favored in Ireland). And were White women regularly participating
in erotically-charged (at least in the popular White imagination of the
time) drumming rituals? While the Code Noir allowed intermarriage,
there were certainly social taboos against this, particularly against
White woman sleeping with Black men.
> (Before I go any further let me suggest that anyone who hasn't read Jayelle's
> "White Women in Vodou" do so!)
An excellent and moving piece which describes what Maman Brigitte means
to Jayelle and how she has integrated Maman Brigitte into her own life.
I have no interest in "debunking" Jayelle's personal mythology, or in
"disproving" her belief that her Maman Brigitte is related to the Celtic
Brigitte. Jayelle seems like a very nice and very intelligent person:
if her service of Brigitte does good things for her, then I wish her
well. I can respect the opinions of a devout, sincere Moslem, without
believing that the Koran is the direct word of God and that Mohammed is
the seal of the prophets.
That being said: I think one of the big problems facing Neopagan
theology today is flabby scholarship. "Authorities" pull assertions out
of their posteriors without any kind of evidence: other "authorities"
then point to these assertions as "proof." I saw a recent claim, for
instance, that the "Black Madonna" found throughout Europe is really a
survival of Isis and Horus worship. I didn't see any evidence backing
that claim up -- just a bald-faced assertion. I could just as easily
claim the Black Madonna was a survival of Parvati holding the Infant
Krishna, or of the infant Guatama being held by his Mother. I'm sure
that I could find a "Mother holding a Child" figure in the art of just
about EVERY culture: does that prove that the Black Madonna is a
survival of Inuit rule over Europe, or that Europe was once occupied by
South Sea Islanders? Speculation is one thing: so long as you clearly
say "This is what I believe," or "This is one possible explanation," I'm
not inclined to complain. But once you and others start presenting your
speculation as Historical Fact, you can run into all kinds of problems.
> Now, the first woman buried in any cemetary is by definition Brigid, and the
> first man buried in any cemetary is by definition Baron. Of course when those
> drum-dancing poor Scottish women died they were buried in the same earth as
> Africans, and the agglomerative, pragmatic nature of Vodou as it developed
> would of course naturally incorporate Brigid, and metamorphose her into Maman
> Brigitte.
You're assuming a lot here again. I'm not saying that you're wrong, but
I'd like to see some scholarship regarding the ethnic makeup of
indentured servants in Haiti, the interactions between indentured
servants and African slaves, and the religious beliefs of indentured
White servants in Haiti. As I said before, there certainly were
intermarriages and interrelationships between poor Whites (particularly
escaped indentured servants) and African slaves. And if you can point
me in the direction of evidence that Brigid-worship survived in Scotland
as late as the 17th century, I would be greatly appreciative.
Peace
Kevin Filan
--
Now in the graveyard of my secrets there's a hope buried beneath
All this talk of peace and righteousness as left me weary beyond belief
And there's this unwanted mistress in my bed late at night
She says "I know you're a criminal
-- you been on death row all your life."
- Bill Mallonee
Racine125
<mrha...@SPAMBGONE.com> writes:
>..the first African slaves in the New World arrived in Hispaniola
>in 1501... and the first slave rebellion in Hispaniola was in 1522....
I don't mean that Scottish deportees were in Haiti from the
beginning of the slave trade! The Stuart wars took place later,
in the mid-1700's, which is in plenty of time to contribute to
the formation of the contemporary Vodou religion. Not only
that, but Scottish people were being deported to the West
Indies including Haiti long before the Stuart wars - that is where
all those Jamaicans get names like Fitzwilliam and Fitzroy, and
that is why there are Haitians named Bailly.
> I certainly doubt VERY strongly that there were any Scotsmen
>of that time, no matter how isolated a little town they came from, who
>would have considered themselves "Brigid worshippers."
Oh, I don't doubt it for a moment, I bet Scots*women* kept
Brigid alive in their hearts - that is no different from the modern
Haitians in the north of Haiti who are hereditary Muslims!
Documents written by Christians claiming that the "Picts are
Christianized" mean as much to me as modern documents
written by Christians in Haiti claiming that the majority of
Haitians have renounced Vodou.
The population statistics I quoted are from historical documents
of the time, it's on the 'Net in a few places, I will look and see
if I can find them again.
There is no doubt that Brigitte is a manifestation of Brigid, although
we may go rooting around a bit to decide exactly how and when.
Like Bob Marley said, "Half the story has never been told."
Kevin Filan
>
>In article <3B2D3334...@SPAMBGONE.com>, Kevin Filan
><mrha...@SPAMBGONE.com> writes:
>
>>..the first African slaves in the New World arrived in Hispaniola
>>in 1501... and the first slave rebellion in Hispaniola was in 1522....
>
>I don't mean that Scottish deportees were in Haiti from the
>beginning of the slave trade! The Stuart wars took place later,
>in the mid-1700's, which is in plenty of time to contribute to
>the formation of the contemporary Vodou religion. Not only
>that, but Scottish people were being deported to the West
>Indies including Haiti long before the Stuart wars - that is where
>all those Jamaicans get names like Fitzwilliam and Fitzroy, and
>that is why there are Haitians named Bailly.
I don't think you were seeing a lot of indentured servitude in St. Dominique by
the 1750s. At that stage in the game they were mostly using the "labor camp"
model: buy slaves, work them to death, repeat as necessary. For the most part
the farms were divided into massive plantations where indentured servants would
be working as overseers at best. It's highly unlikely that any overseers were
hanging out at African drum dances ... in fact, I'd say the overseers would have
been among the first killed when the rebellion started.
I think a more promising approach might be to compare some of the folk beliefs
of the early French settlers, particularly any settlers from the Breton area,
and compare them with the beliefs and rituals found in Haiti today around Maman
Brigitte. For that I'd look no later than the early 18th century, before the
Code Noir and before the disenfranchisement of the Mulattos. At that period you
would have had a prosperous Creole culture where you might have seen that kind
of interaction between Whites and Blacks and their belief systems. Later you
get much more a "state of siege" and an effort to keep the systems separate.
(You can still see the psychological effects of this among Haiti's mulatto
elite). And then, during and after the Revolution, the Whites who weren't
killed out got the heck out of Dodge: after that time there wasn't enough of a
white presence, IMO, to have that kind of an impact on the development of Vodou.
I just picked up W.Y. Evans-Wentz's 1911 book *The Fairy-Faith in Celtic
Countries.* While he engages in a fair bit of psychical and theosophical
speculation, he also did a goodly amount of field work in the British Isles and
in Breton. He was also a disciple of the great American philosopher William
James: I can definitely see the influence of *Varieties of Religious Experience*
in the preconceptions he brings to the table when compiling his data. From what
I've read so far, the book is fascinating and thought-provoking, although you
may want to keep a salt shaker handy when reading.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/ffcc/ has an online edition of this book.
One thing I've noted is that Bretons strongly identify the Fae folk with the
spirits of the dead, arguably more so than other Celtic peoples. If this is
true (and, again, I've not done the research to verify all of Evans-Wentz's
claims), then it might be an explanation of how a goddess frequently assoicated
with the Fairy Kingdom became the Queen of the Dead.
When are Maman Brigitte and the Baron first mentioned in print? I know that the
scholarship on Vodou is woefully thin, but in present day Vodou these are two of
the most popular and well-known Lwa. If we could get some idea as to how long
Brigitte has been served, perhaps we'd get some better clue as to her origins.
>> I certainly doubt VERY strongly that there were any Scotsmen
>>of that time, no matter how isolated a little town they came from, who
>>would have considered themselves "Brigid worshippers."
>
>Oh, I don't doubt it for a moment, I bet Scots*women* kept
>Brigid alive in their hearts - that is no different from the modern
>Haitians in the north of Haiti who are hereditary Muslims!
The broker who got us our apartment was a Lebanese Haitian: I've gathered there
is also a Syrian population in Haiti as well. Are these the Muslims of whom you
speak?
I would expect that most of the peasants from France, Scotland, England and
Ireland would have considered themselves Catholics. They might pay homage to
"saints" like Brigid in ways which reflected the pre-Christian worship of
Brigid... but they would likely consider this Catholic. While I am open to the
possibility -- and would love to see it, actually -- I have not yet seen any
evidence of widespread survival of pre-Christian religion in Europe,
particularly a pre-Christian survival which recognized itself as such. I
suspect the situation resembled African-American Hoodoo: lots of bits and pieces
from an earlier structure, but lacking major amounts of the underlying
philosophy of that structure and incorporating many Christian ideas.
>Documents written by Christians claiming that the "Picts are
>Christianized" mean as much to me as modern documents
>written by Christians in Haiti claiming that the majority of
>Haitians have renounced Vodou.
What those documents prove is that there was a pretty established Christian
community in Scotland as early as the 8th century. It doesn't prove that the
pre-Christian customs had died out entirely ... indeed, if Evans-Wentz's field
research was at all accurate, many of them survived as late as the 19th and
early 20th century. What it means is that we can expect these pre-Christian
myths to have incorporated a good deal of Christian mythology by the time St.
Dominique was being colonized.
>The population statistics I quoted are from historical documents
>of the time, it's on the 'Net in a few places, I will look and see
>if I can find them again.
>
>There is no doubt that Brigitte is a manifestation of Brigid, although
>we may go rooting around a bit to decide exactly how and when.
>Like Bob Marley said, "Half the story has never been told."
I'm not saying that you're wrong here, although I think you may be pointing a
bit in the wrong direction. I'm definitely interested in hearing more about why
Maman Brigitte "comes from England" and for how long this identification has
been made. Do you know any other Maman Brigitte songs? Looking at those lyrics
might help to uncover other clues as to Brigitte's origin.
I know we have a few people on here with some knowledge of Celtic culture and
mythology. Any recommendations for good books on the subject which avoid the
Standard Newage Pitfalls?
>Peace and love,
>
>Bon Mambo Racine Sans Bout Sa Te La Daginen
>
>"Se bon ki ra" - Good is rare
> Haitian Proverb
>
>The VODOU Page - http://members.aol.com/racine125/index.html
Peace
Kevin Filan
"My country, right or wrong," is a thing that no patriot would think of
saying expect in a desperate case. It is like saying, "My mother,
drunk or sober." - G.K. Chesterton
Other
> There is no doubt that Brigitte is a manifestation of Brigid, although
> we may go rooting around a bit to decide exactly how and when.
> Like Bob Marley said, "Half the story has never been told."
>
Christianized version of the Goddess Brigid.
--
Troy
"Self, I could do bad pencil drawings of Mr. Spock!"-Robin Wood
Racine125
Filan<mrha...@excite.SPAMBGONE.com> writes:
>I don't think you were seeing a lot of indentured servitude in St. Dominique
>by
>the 1750s. At that stage in the game they were mostly using the "labor camp"
>model: buy slaves, work them to death, repeat as necessary.
They who? Think again, Kevin - wealthy French plantation owners
did not soil their shoes going down to the cane fields or the indigo
patch or whatever. That work was done by poor whites and some
"trusted blacks" usually Kongo men because they were considered
by whites the most likely to betray their own people.
>It's highly unlikely that any overseers
>were
>hanging out at African drum dances ...
To the contrary - where else would they hang out? The fancy
whites wouldn't have anything to do with them. I want to stress
again and again the incredibly high numerical disparity between
blacks and whites, it wasn't like the USA, whites were few and
far between, and they had to have an "understanding" with blacks
who outnumbered them vastly (By the way the source of that
population data is online somewhere and I will keep trying to find
it and give it to you). And also remember that the most likely
participants were the women! These were not refined, constrained
Frenchwomen, these were rough, lower class independant
Celtic women accustomed to taking responsibility for themselves.
Now, faced with a choice between some boring white guy and
some big handsome Ashanti or Ibo, I know who I would rather
hang out with! LOL!
> in fact, I'd say the overseers would
>have
>been among the first killed when the rebellion started.
No, that came later - in the beginning there were groups of blacks
who protected whites whom they felt had done their best to protect
blacks, sometimes even to the point of battling for them, getting
them out of the country... it was Dessalines who brought on that
mentality that led to pregnant white women being split open
and their fetuses pulled out for the purposes of general amusement,
that kind of thing. In fact at one point he promised a large group
of white women and children safe passage back to France, and
then when they assembled, he had his men cut them to pieces
with swords because he "wouldn't waste the bullets".
>I think a more promising approach might be to compare some of the folk
>beliefs
>of the early French settlers, particularly any settlers from the Breton area,
>and compare them with the beliefs and rituals found in Haiti today around
>Maman
>Brigitte.
That might have been a part of it too! But you know, the Vodou
song which refers to the geographical origins of Maman Brigitte says
that "Maman Brigitte, li soti nan anglete", anglete being properly
"England" but by extension the British Isles.
>One thing I've noted is that Bretons strongly identify the Fae folk with the
>spirits of the dead, arguably more so than other Celtic peoples. If this is
>true (and, again, I've not done the research to verify all of Evans-Wentz's
>claims), then it might be an explanation of how a goddess frequently
>assoicated
>with the Fairy Kingdom became the Queen of the Dead.
Brigid was identified with the dead in her own country, and with healing
and smithcraft too.
>>Oh, I don't doubt it for a moment, I bet Scots*women* kept
>>Brigid alive in their hearts - that is no different from the modern
>>Haitians in the north of Haiti who are hereditary Muslims!
>
>The broker who got us our apartment was a Lebanese Haitian: I've gathered
>there
>is also a Syrian population in Haiti as well. Are these the Muslims of whom
>you
>speak?
No, I am talking about black people in the north of Haiti whose
ancestors were Muslims when they came over from Africa. Their
contemporary descendants remain Muslims until present, and the
anthropologists are having a field day with them! LOL!
>>Documents written by Christians claiming that the "Picts are
>>Christianized" mean as much to me as modern documents
>>written by Christians in Haiti claiming that the majority of
>>Haitians have renounced Vodou.
>
>What those documents prove is that there was a pretty established Christian
>community in Scotland as early as the 8th century. It doesn't prove that the
>pre-Christian customs had died out entirely ... indeed, if Evans-Wentz's
>field
>research was at all accurate, many of them survived as late as the 19th and
>early 20th century.
So there.
>I'm not saying that you're wrong here, although I think you may be pointing a
>bit in the wrong direction. I'm definitely interested in hearing more about
>why
>Maman Brigitte "comes from England" and for how long this identification has
>been made. Do you know any other Maman Brigitte songs? Looking at those
>lyrics
>might help to uncover other clues as to Brigitte's origin.
Of course I know more songs for Maman Brigitte, but none of them
say anything about her origin.
Kathy Latzoni
>
>In article <6KCX6.678$yp1....@www.newsranger.com>, Kevin
>Filan<mrha...@excite.SPAMBGONE.com> writes:
>
>>I don't think you were seeing a lot of indentured servitude in St. Dominique
>>by
>>the 1750s. At that stage in the game they were mostly using the "labor camp"
>>model: buy slaves, work them to death, repeat as necessary.
>
>They who? Think again, Kevin - wealthy French plantation owners
>did not soil their shoes going down to the cane fields or the indigo
>patch or whatever. That work was done by poor whites and some
>"trusted blacks" usually Kongo men because they were considered
>by whites the most likely to betray their own people.
Hmm. Why were the Kongo [as opposed to Africans of other origins] considered the
"most likely to betray their own people"? <:/
I'd be interested in seeing your sources for this information...
>Brigid was identified with the dead in her own country, and with healing
>and smithcraft too.
>
In my own [somewhat casual] studies of Brigid, I have heard her identified with
all of these things as well -- but again, this has mostly come from pagan or
women's-spirituality books and websites, which often don't give many academic
citations, or statistics, to back up the assertions they make. [Yes, I'm
familiar with the quote about "lies, damned lies and statistics" ;) ... but that
would at least provide some primary research for us to evaluate.]
Your own reading has probably been more extensive than mine: are you able to
give us some more "hard facts" to support these conclusions here?
KL
Racine125
Latzoni<lat...@my-deja.com> writes:
>Hmm. Why were the Kongo [as opposed to Africans of other origins] considered
>the
>"most likely to betray their own people"? <:/
>
>I'd be interested in seeing your sources for this information...
Oh dear, another bibliography search, huh? There are actually quite a
few references to the "execrable Congos" and how other ethnic
groups scorned them because they would sell out incipient rebellions,
all sorts of stuff.
There are echoes of this kind of thing in current Haitian parlance too -
for instance "owsa" (Hausa) means "pickpocket", and apparently
Hausas had a reputation for being lightfingered in Africa as well.
I am getting on the plane very shortly and won't be able to look it
up for you but the references abound, it won't be hard for you to find.