Fabrications from Mark Alexander "Aboudja" Moellendorf
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
by Mark Alexander "Aboudja" Moellendorf is gearing up, as it does every six
months, since that is how often I have been conducting kanzos since 1999.
According to what has been forwarded to me, Moellendorf claims to present "an
edited copy of an e-mail" sent to him by someone who wants to be initiated and
has been getting information about the process from me. I don't believe anyone
sent him any such email, or if they did, it's one of his cronies masquerading
as a sincere seeker.
This particular phantom initiation candidate, whom Moellendorf refers to as
"Mr. Man" (LOL) says that "For a very, very long time I have had a deep desire
to be initiated into Vodou."
Moellendorf responds to the phantom "Mr. Man" that, "I find that people who get
intangled with such people... often "need" such a negative experience in their
lives."
Now that's just plain ridiculous! The phantom candidate supposedly says that
he wants to be initiated, and Moellendorf interprets this to mean that "Mr.
Man" needs a negative experience in his life. What kind of logic is that? And
by the way, he means "entangled" - Moellendorf is not a terribly intelligent or
well educated man.
He goes on to say that, "Sometimes, they need to get scammed in order to wake
up. At other times, I think they are unable to handle the REAL thing..."
I take strong offense at this comment. Initiation ceremonies, and other
ceremonies in the Roots Without End Society, are NEVER "scams". We always,
without exception, perform authentic and painstakingly correct ceremonies, and
I am always assisted by Haitian Houngans and Mambos, some of whom are my
initiates and some of whom are not. Does Moellendorf want to suggest that
Houngan Fritzner "Po Pwa" Georges is "scamming"? Mambo Vierge, who has served
as maman hunyo to countless initiates in several different peristyles, is
"scamming"?
Moellendorf, man, you are RUDE. You are more than rude, you are a vicious
liar, attempting to smear not only me but qualified, competent Haitian Vodou
clergy. SHAME ON YOU.
Moellendorf asks his phantom a rhetorical question, "I will also say that you
should ask yourself, "how is it that you can *meet* a priest on-line who
*markets* for a TRADITIONAL religion openly & aggressively, offers to take your
money & initiate you sight unseen, & then expect to get anything out of it?"
This is not how these traditional religions & *cultures* work, at all, at
all.>>
Moellendorf, you don't know how to conduct a kanzo - at all, at all. But if
you were to take a person somewhere in Haiti and facilitate their initiation,
wouldn't you expect to be paid?
Let me inform you that Houngans and Mambos initiate almost anyone who asks. It
is extremely rare for any candidate to be turned away. And all Houngans and
Mambos advertise by whatever means are available - we've covered this ground
before. In Haiti the available means is often nothing but word of mouth. In
the USA people use the telephone and the radio. You ought to tune in to some
of the Haitian-oriented radio programs in New York City, you would see how many
Houngans and Mambos have programs and advertise services on the air. Because
my community is in part an online one, I make accurate and correct information
on Haitian Vodou available on the internet, and I announce upcoming events and
upcoming kanzos online JUST AS YOU DO.
So... how much do you charge to kanzo someone? Or do you keep it a secret in
an effort to gouge as much as you think you can from each individual? I
remember you associate "Iya Oshuntoki's" scheme of soliciting contributions for
"poor Haitians"... she asked me to lend my legitimacy to her efforts, and then
revealed to me that far from donating the money to any Haitian charity or
individual, she planned to use the money to pay for her own kanzo! The only
reason she didn't try it is because I refused to participate in her scam and
threatened to expose her. I have archived those IMs, by the way. Then, once
she was kanzo, she wanted to bring people to me, she wrote me long flowery
emails praising me and thanking me, until I wouldn't go along with her plan to
add almost twice as much money to the fee and pocket the difference! Then all
of a sudden I became an enemy. This is the same woman referred to on your
discussion group as "the fabulous Mambo Dunni", and I don't mind telling you
that I have had clients in Haiti who went to her first, and then came to me
with reports of outrageous ripoffs! This is the company you keep, Moellendorf,
and then you have the bald arrogance to accuse me of scamming?
Hey, by the way - what about you? Didn't I receive payment from you for a
kanzo? Didn't I rent a vehicle and meet you at the airport in Port-au-Prince?
Didn't you get an asson, despite the fact that Houngan Danise, once he saw the
kind of person you are, out-and-out refused to give it to you? Didn't I insist
that he give it to you, since you had paid? Didn't you eat food, and sleep in
a house, and benefit from my translations and my explanations and everything
else I did for you as your mama kanzo back in August of 1999?
Of course I charge money to kanzo people. That is what the tradition teaches -
"Houngan pa travay pou granmesi", a Houngan (or a Mambo) does not work for
free. The exact fee that I charge is given on my page, anyone can look and see
what it is, and it is exactly the same for everyone. I have my own peristyle
now, I have since January 2001, and when I promise a person a particular grade,
they get it.
Moellendorf claims, incredibly, "I do initiation ceremonies in Haiti together
with my own Manbo. "
You don't have any damn Mambo! LOL! You renounced me, you renounced Houngan
Danise and all his people, and you named first Mambo Nadiyo, no then it was
Houngan Paul, and no... now it's Mambo Marie Carmel Charles of New York, the
lady who can't seem to supply the herbs she claims to sell, even when customers
FedEx her a check! I talked to her about you, and she said she didn't give you
the kanzo and wasn't even in Haiti at the time, remember? You first named her
as a "witness" in fact, not as your initiator, and then you changed your story.
And YOU don't know how to do a kanzo, the only kanzo you ever saw is the one
which I did for you with Houngan Danise David. You have never had or even
witnessed another one.
As the recipient of correct, authentic kanzo ceremonies from me and from
Houngan Danise David, you have some idea what happened to you, but you don't
know the preparations, you don't know how to do those ceremonies for others,
you don't know how to prepare a djevo, you don't know how to cook the ritual
food. If you take people to Haiti, you will be completely dependent on
whatever Haitian you employ, and I am sure they are not going to work for free.
Furthermore, despite all your posing and bluffing, you don't speak Creole well
enough to know what is going on around you, you can't protect your people.
I think that it is your dupes who are apt to have a "negative experience",
frankly.
Moellendorf asks his phantom, "Have you ever had an extended family? One you
created? It is the same. ... Issues of trust, issues of committment, issues of
interpersonal relations all must be looked at..."
Judging from the description you gave me of your rotten relations with your
immediate biological family, it doesn't surprise me that you transferred your
negative feelings to one initiator after another - you have gone through Mambo
Yaffa, me, Houngan Danise, Mambo Nadiyo, Houngan Paul Sorel... your use 'em and
lose 'em mentality is bound to affect your approach to your dupes as well.
Trust and commitment are not your strong suit, Moellendorf.
Moellendorf goes on to inform his phantom, "You may be a very good person, but
we may have personalities that would make the godparent/godchild relationship
difficult.""
I'll say! And one of the things that might make it difficult is that an
initiate is not called a godchild, and an initiator is not called a godparent.
The person who initiates you is your papa or your mama, the person you initiate
is called your petit, your *child*.
Moellendorf asserts, "I dont sell initiations."
Do you do them for free, Moellendorf? HOW MUCH DO YOU CHARGE? I make this
information public, who are you trying to scam?
" I will tell you that, in general & as an example, for initiation as an
houngan soupwen (the junior grade of priest) you might pay anywhere from
nothing upwards to $3500, which would include everything except airfare to
Haiti & your white clothes."
That is the budget in MY house. Asogwe initiates pay slightly less than the
figure mentioned, hounsis kanzo pay less than half that amount, and sur point
initiates are in between. Plus their white clothes, of course!
;-}
I think it is very clear who is the originator and who is the imitator. You're
not fooling anyone, Moellendorf.
Peace and love,
Bon Mambo Racine Sans Bout Sa Te La Daginen
"Se bon ki ra" - Good is rare
Haitian Proverb
The VODOU Page - http://members.aol.com/racine125/index.html
araignée
===> Dear Mambo Racine: I don't believe this!!! Well, I do because I
can't think you'd be incited to write this were it not true. What IS
this guy on about? Are you saying he's a member of the Vodou
priesthood? To whom people would enturst their spiritual
development? Their intimate problems? Their ills, physical or
otherwise? Their INITIATIONS? Not me, matey!
This just proves a point I make often on another of your groups: you
can be initiated until you're blue in the face but that doesn't make
you a good Houngan. There are those for whom initiation means "I've
arrived, hooray!" and those who realise that initiation is just the
start. No prizes for guessing the category of this one!
Are you saying that members of the priesthood can act soo
irresponsably not only to denigrate a fellow-member but (in doing so)
do Vodou itself a disservice - because this will undermine trust...it
does mine, anyway.
I've made other comments intermittently...
====
===> Hah! The guy is so wildly out of date!!! What's wrong with
him? Does he refuse to watch television because it isn't 'live in
the round'? Does he refuse to use the telephone because the
tradition demands face-to-face conversation? Does he walk everywhere
because 'god' built him to do that; and using a car or bike is against
that tradition.
That's before we get to the vast amount of religious instruction
on-line; television; in schools conducted even by lay-people let alone
priests. Is ALL this bogus? If this guy can't see that we
"children of the new reality" are just taking advantage of the latest
media - without which many of us would be at a huge disadvantage, then
he's way off track.
Why shouldn't you offer instruction on-line? You have hitherto made
no charge but the value is inestimable. The Lwa/Loa bothered to
manifest to me in England!!! - THEY put me in touch with Haiti and the
land of origins. They probably guided/inspired? me to find you on
the internet. You've helped me comprehend and serve them - s*d the
media through which it happened.
Gawd, I'm going on a bit agreeing, aren't I? Can this bloke not see
that Vodou, like everything else will adapt to new conditions.
Heaven-help-us, hasn't it already? It is in the process of building
a far larger community; it's using the internet (inter alia) to do so.
Doesn't he approve of this? He's actually putting himself down;
ready to let this wonderful way of life sink into stagnation, hence
mediocrity, by not moving forward - thankfully Vodouistes generally
don't accord with this - or Vodou would have died long ago.
====
===> If true, there's only one conclusion to draw about who's
scamming and not.
====
====> You see, Mambo Racine, this is what worries me.
If I wanted to be initiated (a matter I defer for purely spiritual
reasons) I have very few choices. I could turn up in Haiti with a
handful of readies, ask the nearest Vodou priest to ordain me. I
reckon I'm as likely to be stung as not, especially when the doubts
start to set in later.
But I've had contact with you for about 6 years now and any doubts
have long been pre-dispelled. I'd FAR sooner be ordained by you than
someone ready to undermine their own way of life. Please always know
that I'm acutely mindful of my debt to you.
From me, peace and love...
====
Houngan Aboudja
Once again, you look like a fool. It is not relevent what you think or
say or to whom. When someone e-mails me asking for info on Vodou or on
you, it does not matter, it is my choice/ right to comment or not with
the truth as I know it. A usual, you try & twist the words... I could
post the edited copy, but since the persons identity is confidential,
you know I wont/ cant post the proof. Who cares.
At the end of the day, you are but a sad, obsessed woman, who lives &
breaths trying to undermine me. You will fail miserably. You are
failing miserably, & with each passing day... with each passing load
of shit that exits your mouth, you make me & mine & my house all that
much stronger. The "people of quality" who read your words, e-mail me
& often, end up with me or with someone I refer them to closer to
their own location. That leaves you with the "New Age Fluffies" who
know no better, & who couldnt handle the Vodou to begin with.
You have 0 credibility, save in your own mind; you are hardly
"well-known" beyond Jakmel & there most of your PR is negative; you
are the laughing stock of the Haitian community in PAP & in the
Diaspora.
You are ridiculous enough to threaten me with your poorly made wanga
that will never reach me... & stupid enough to not take my manbo,
Marie Carmel's name out of your mouth (that one will be on you
Cherie.). You were here in NOLA for 5+ days & had many opportunities
to meet Marie yourself, but you choose to hide... so as not to have
your bubble burst. You had the perfect opportunity that YOU turned
down. Since you did so, why dont you take her name out of your mouth?
I know why... because if you where to meet her, it would be one less
thing you could prance around about looking moronic, that's why.
Say what you wish. No one listens to your babble with any seriousness.
You look stupid, deluded, & clearly obsessed. I realize that you
thrive off of my responding to your posts in a negative manner... you
must even see me in your dreams to be so obsessed, huh?
What a sad, sad woman you are Kathy, to not be able to move on...
Regards,
Houngan Aboudja
raci...@aol.com (Mambo Racine Sans Bout) wrote in message news:<20020603203642...@mb-cv.aol.com>...
Houngan Aboudja
Regards,
Houngan Aboudja
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
(=?ISO-8859-1?Q?araign=E9e?=) writes:
>===> Dear Mambo Racine: I don't believe this!!! Well, I do because I
>can't think you'd be incited to write this were it not true. What IS
>this guy on about? Are you saying he's a member of the Vodou
>priesthood?
Yes, he is. I and Houngan Danise David were his maman kanzo and papa kanzo in
Cyvadier, Haiti in August 1999. He told me that he was already sur point with
the late Mambo Yaffa of New Orleans, and I believed him - only later did I
discover that this was a lie.
We did everything we could for Mark Alexander "Aboudja" Moellendorf, and even
though Houngan Danise did not want to give Moellendorf and a few of his
associates the asson, I made sure Houngan Danise did so, because they had paid
their money. I was honest and forthright with him, but obviously he has a
different standard of behavior than I.
>To whom people would enturst their spiritual
>development? Their intimate problems? Their ills, physical or
>otherwise? Their INITIATIONS? Not me, matey!
I agree, reluctantly - Moellendorf is in fact my initiatory son, and it would
make me much happier if I could be as proud of him as I am of many of my other
initiates.
>This just proves a point I make often on another of your groups: you
>can be initiated until you're blue in the face but that doesn't make
>you a good Houngan.
(chuckle)
I guess you're right! Moellendorf is what we would call in Haiti a "Houngan
gate", a spoiled Houngan - he doesn't respect his elders, he doesn't respect
the rules of the tradition.
>There are those for whom initiation means "I've
>arrived, hooray!" and those who realise that initiation is just the
>start. No prizes for guessing the category of this one!
LOL! You're right.
>Are you saying that members of the priesthood can act soo
>irresponsably not only to denigrate a fellow-member but (in doing so)
>do Vodou itself a disservice - because this will undermine trust...it
>does mine, anyway.
>I've made other comments intermittently...
Thank you for these comments here today.
Now do you know what is going to happen? Sixteen different screen names will
appear here from excite.com and yahoo.com and earthlink.com and wherever,
sprouting horns and denouncing me, and maybe YOU, too!
:-)
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
(Houngan Aboudja) writes:
>Once again, you look like a fool.
Think so? I don't. And why are you making the same post twice on the same
forum?
> A usual, you try & twist the words...
How can I "twist your words" when I am quoting you EXACTLY? What do you want
to tell us, you didn't mean what you said? You didn't say what you meant? (By
the way, correct English usage is "try *to* twist the words", not "try and",
and certainly not "try &". What was the last grade you passed in school?)
>At the end of the day, you are but a sad, obsessed woman, who lives &
>breaths trying to undermine me.
Moellendorf, what you are doing is called "projection" - you are unable to face
certain unpleasant truths about yourself, so you project these characteristics
onto me. I have suggested many times that you see a counselor, a psychologist
or psychiatrist.
I think you are the one who is obsessed! I don't go up and down the Internet
with fifteen screen names, warning people about that naughty Mr. Moellendorf.
I've never said you are not a Houngan - how could I? I and Houngan Danise are
the ones that made you a Houngan! I have never sent you death threats, I have
never tried to stop you from holding a ceremony or having a botanica or doing
whatever else you want. And unlike you, you sniveling little coward, I do not
make defamatory posts about you on forums that you can not access - I am woman
enough to say what I have to say right here, where you can read and respond.
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I am not especially sad, I'm a happy person, I
love the life I am living, I am successful in achieving the goals I choose. I
don't even really think much about you, until you post lies and slander - then
I debunk you, and you don't like it, do you?
Your motivation in all of this is simply the fact that you want money, and you
want recognition. Fine! I taught you all that I could in the time I had with
you, and one of the things I taught you is that we do not work for free. You
imagine that you could make money, be famous, be like me, really - if only you
could get rid of me. And that is precisely why you can not succeed, you
undermine yourself. If you were to say, "I am the intiatory son of Mambo
Racine and Houngan Danise", right from the start, you would have gotten much
farther than you have now - no initiates, no parents, no money, and a piss-poor
botanica in a dumpy part of New Orleans.
:-}
>with each passing load
>of shit that exits your mouth
My, what elegant language.
>That leaves you with the "New Age Fluffies" who
>know no better
I think you should have more respect for other people! I have found that the
people who ask me for information or for ceremonies are for the most part
sincere, highly motivated individuals.
> who couldnt handle the Vodou to begin with.
Oh, I see, you are the one who can "handle the Vodou", huh? How is it possible
that the vast majority of the eight million people in Haiti can "handle the
Vodou", but you assert that non-Haitians who contact me can not? Again, you
need to have more respect for other people.
As a matter of fact, you can't even handle punctuation - it's c-o-u-l-d-n-'-t,
it's a contraction of "could not" and thus requires an apostrophe.
>You have 0 credibility, save in your own mind; you are hardly
>"well-known" beyond Jakmel & there most of your PR is negative; you
>are the laughing stock of the Haitian community in PAP & in the
>Diaspora.
None of that is true. I am not especially concerned about being "well-known",
but I enjoy the support and the help of the Vodouisant community of Jacmel. I
don't work in Port-au-Prince, I don't have relations with Houngans or Mambos
there because I don't stay there. I have maintained some ties in the
Artibonite, however.
>You are ridiculous enough to threaten me with your poorly made wanga
>that will never reach me...
From what I have heard, it has reached you already - don't you see that three
people have apologized to me right here on this forum? Didn't you have a
few... problems, recently? You would be surprised to know who in your own
so-called house is disenchanted with you.
>You were here in NOLA for 5+ days & had many opportunities
>to meet Marie yourself, but you choose to hide...
Hide? Hide from Mambo Marie Carmel Charles? Was she hiding from me? All she
had to do if she wanted to meet me so bad is stop by the New Orleans Voodoo
Museum Annex.
I certainly have no intention of coming to your so-called house, since you have
threatened in writing to kill me - have you forgotten the visit from the police
that you got? You even get people to convey to me your desire that I should
come to your "house", people whom I know to be of very bad reputation, people I
know are capable of violence. You can't honestly believe that I would put
myself at risk like that.
Now, here it is - the fact truth of the matter is that you are a Houngan asogwe
of the Vodou. You are a Houngan asogwe precisely because Houngan Danise and I
made you one! If it wasn't for me, you know good and well you would not have
gotten that asson in August 1999 - have you forgotten that Houngan Danise told
you right to your impudent face, "If Mambo Racine wasn't already asogwe, not
one of you would get more than hounsi kanzo!" ?
You have responded in a way that totally betrays the trust we placed in you,
and totally disrespects the Vodou tradition. That's why, from the day you
finished your initiation ceremonies, you have never once set foot again in the
house where you were made! Am I lying? In fact, you have never once even so
much as thanked Houngan Danise David for the asson he gave you, you have never
shown your face in the community there.
It's no wonder you name your little botanica in your little crack neighborhood
the "Mistek", your whole approach to Vodou and to your elders is a huge
mistake, indeed.
David Ritter
> At the end of the day, you are but a sad, obsessed woman, who lives &
> breaths trying to undermine me. You will fail miserably. You are
> failing miserably, & with each passing day...
Let's see, Mambo Racine has had a Perestyle in Haiti for a few years
now and her house is growing (At the risk of getting all sorts of
strange emails I will state that yes, I will soon be joining her in
Jacmel this July to Kanzo). She's doing what she loves doing on a
daily basis. It seems to me that she is remarkably successful. But
this is "failing miserably"? If it is,
A. may I be so fortunate as to "fail miserably" in my own goals!
B. how would you catagorize your own efforts where you are?
> growing. with each passing load
> of shit that exits your mouth, you make me & mine & my house all that
> much stronger. The "people of quality" who read your words, e-mail me
> & often, end up with me or with someone I refer them to closer to
> their own location. That leaves you with the "New Age Fluffies" who
> know no better, & who couldnt handle the Vodou to begin with.
Strange you should mention such things because it would seem to me
that you are the one building your house out of those unfortunate
enough to be dissuaded by you.
> You have 0 credibility, save in your own mind; you are hardly
> "well-known" beyond Jakmel & there most of your PR is negative; you
> are the laughing stock of the Haitian community in PAP & in the
> Diaspora.
That's funny because my wife, who a while ago wanted to convince me
not to go Kanzo, knows Haitians who have relatives who claim to know
of her. She wanted to dig up dirt in order to present an argument
against my going. Do you know what she found out? They told her, and I
quote what my wife said, she has a good reputation, so far.
I have a question though, if she is not well known outside of Jacmel
how can she have a reputation good or bad in Port a Prince and
elsewhere?
> Say what you wish. No one listens to your babble with any seriousness.
> You look stupid, deluded, & clearly obsessed. I realize that you
> thrive off of my responding to your posts in a negative manner... you
> must even see me in your dreams to be so obsessed, huh?
>
> What a sad, sad woman you are Kathy, to not be able to move on...
Like I stated at the begining, it would seem to me that Mambo Racine
is doing quite well, why would she be "obsessed" with you? because of
what? what do you have that she is envious of realy?
Please, do me a favor. Do not insult my intellegence, I can see
through all of this and it paints a very bad image of you. If you wish
to compete with Mambo Racine then do so by hard work, performing well
that sort of thing. I believe that both you and whoever may be
following you will benefit from positive competition, Not this
slandering thing.
David Ritter
Kathy Latzoni
news:20020604191603...@mb-fd.aol.com...
> ... you would have gotten much
> farther than you have now - no initiates, no parents, no money, and a
piss-poor
> botanica in a dumpy part of New Orleans.
>
> It's no wonder you name your little botanica in your little crack
neighborhood
Actually, Aboudja, Michelle and Tribble's botanica is located at 2267 St.
Claude Ave... which is very near the intersection of St. Claude and Marigny
Street.
That's closer to the French Quarter than Sallie Ann Glassman's Island of
Salvation Botanica is -- and ISTR you quite enjoyed visiting Island of
Salvation, the first time you came to New Orleans.
And as a matter of fact, Sallie Ann's home, and the space where she usually
conducts her outdoor ceremonies, are even nearer to Aboudja's place than
that.
So, the next time you correspond with Sallie Ann -- are you planning to let
her know that she lives in a "dumpy part of New Orleans" and a "crack
neighborhood"??
I guess I was just surprised to hear you putting down a racially diverse,
working-class community like that.
What would your old neighbors in Roxbury say?
Owell. We can always discuss this more in July, I guess.
Yrs,
Kathy L.
[who must also point out that New Orleans Mistik is an easy walk to the
stunning St. Roch's Cemetery chapel]
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
Latzoni" <latz...@yahoo.com> writes:
>Actually, Aboudja, Michelle and Tribble's botanica is located at 2267 St.
>Claude Ave... which is very near the intersection of St. Claude and Marigny
>Street.
I know precisely where the Mistake Botanica is located. I am informed by New
Orleanians that this neighborhood is a bad one, and the term "crack
neighborhood" is the one that each person used. Why shoudn't I believe them?
>That's closer to the French Quarter than Sallie Ann Glassman's Island of
>Salvation Botanica is -- and ISTR you quite enjoyed visiting Island of
>Salvation, the first time you came to New Orleans.
Yes, and so?
>And as a matter of fact, Sallie Ann's home, and the space where she usually
>conducts her outdoor ceremonies, are even nearer to Aboudja's place than
>that.
New York is nearer Boston than it is to Miami. New York is not Boston,
however.
>So, the next time you correspond with Sallie Ann -- are you planning to let
>her know that she lives in a "dumpy part of New Orleans" and a "crack
>neighborhood"??
I don't know that her area is a crack neighborhood, in fact I have heard that
it is a relatively safe area, and I didn't notice people loitering or dealing
dope out of cars in that area.
>I guess I was just surprised to hear you putting down a racially diverse,
>working-class community like that.
You are a subtle liar. I have not criticized that area for being "racially
diverse" or "working class", I have reported that people who know New Orleans
far better than I tell me that it is a CRACK NEIGHBORHOOD.
>What would your old neighbors in Roxbury say?
I bet they would say, "That is why we have reclaimed our neighborhood, had the
gangs broken up, arrested and imprisoned the dope dealers - so we could live in
safety."
>Owell. We can always discuss this more in July, I guess.
You are not welcome to the Roots Without End Society peristyle. You will be
asked to leave if you appear, and if you do not leave, you will be forcibly
escorted off the premises by our security people. If you persist, you will be
arrested for trespassing.
Houngan Aboudja
If you were to say, "I am the intiatory son of Mambo Racine and
Houngan Danise", right from the start, you would have gotten much
farther than you have now - no initiates, no parents, no money, and a
piss-poor botanica in a dumpy part of New Orleans.<<<
What, & be the laughing stock of the Haitian Diaspora by association?
I think not. You are not taken with any seriousness Kathy. You are
viewed as an annoying nut at best, & a dangerous lunatic at worst by
Haitian Houngan & Manbo in the Diaspora. This is why you are
associated with none of them... because they do not need the few
pennies you pay in Jakmel for someone to say they are your friend.
<yawn>
I am sure that you would love me to say this ("I am the intiatory son
of Mambo Racine and Houngan Danise"), but since I was never your
"child" to begin with... but only your sibling, & since my initiatory
manbo is Marie Carmel (of Long Island) & my initiatory father is
Freddy Senat (of Brooklyn), I dont think Ill be doing such a
ridiculous thing any time soon... to say nothing of disrespecting
them. If I did, what would that get me? A "horray" from your New Age
White Groupies no doubt. Forgive me if I do not shudder with
excitement over the thought! LOL You have no idea what is going on
here in NOLA Cherie, nor will you any time soon. All you have is
tripotayo fed to you by equally mental cases.
Rasin, you are a loone; a certifiable mental case. I do not project at
all... but you really need inpatient long-term psych care... to say
nothing of meds. So ok, Ill give you props for it, & say "peace out".
Houngan Aboudja
BTW: I see you have found the perfect groupies in the Spider-nut & the
old fart Ritter: Both, much like you, seem incapable of reading a
single word, much less a sentence & keeping it in context... & the
later seems particularly lost in the fluffy-bunny summerland
somewhere. You deserve each other... may you be very happy together in
your delusions singing "My Bonnie Lies Over the ocean" for your
b-o-g-u-s LaSiren possessions. You'll notice I do not answer your
parrots, because they & their words are not significant... at all,
much less to the conversation at hand... Clearly they do not know any
of your supposed American initiates, all but three of whom (soon to be
two of whom) have run fast as they can away from you, & no longer have
any thing to do with your craziness... Need I name names? LOL How very
sad...
Oh, & another thing Ms. It... the name is Houngan Sorel Fenelon, & he
remains my good friend. Papa Paul is another houngan in Miami
entirely. Idiot...
Sean Williams
says...
>
>Now do you know what is going to happen? Sixteen different screen names will
>appear here from excite.com and yahoo.com and earthlink.com and wherever,
>sprouting horns and denouncing me, and maybe YOU, too!
From: ritte...@hotmail.com (David Ritter)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.orisha
Subject: Re: Fabrications from Mark Alexander "Aboudja" Moellendorf
Date: 4 Jun 2002 16:35:47 -0700
From: Mrv...@hotmail.com (Mr. Voodu)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.orisha
Subject: Mambo Racine bashing
Date: 4 Jun 2002 13:07:57 -0700
Well,heres two from "hotmail",showering you with praise......
Should this be seen as odd too?
It would be nice to see a header from "earthlink.net" attached to an email
with something positive to say about you. Are any more peristyle members
of yours going to contribute to the thread via their "yahoo" accounts?
Sean
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
<nos...@newsranger.com> writes:
>Well,heres two from "hotmail",showering you with praise......
>
>Should this be seen as odd too?
I don't know, what do you think? The folks posting from hotmail are Vodou Arts
list members, but I don't know any more about them than that.
>It would be nice to see a header from "earthlink.net" attached to an email
>with something positive to say about you.
Well, Kevin has at least two earthlink.net names under which he has posted
here, maybe he will develop a third personality with a different point of view,
and then he can argue with himself.
>Are any more peristyle members
>of yours going to contribute to the thread via their "yahoo" accounts?
No peristyle members of mine have contributed to any threads since May, since I
am here and can not translate for them, and since the other person who
generally translates does not follow a.r.o.
I do hope to be producing a web page for Houngan Luckner and another for Mambo
Simone very soon. Keep watching!
Peace and love,
Bon Mambo Racine Sans Bout Sa Te La Daginen
"Se bon ki ra" - Good is rare
Haitian proverb
Sean Williams
says...
>
>I do hope to be producing a web page for Houngan Luckner and another for Mambo
>Simone very soon. Keep watching!
I think I'll pass. I feel I would be better amused dropping cinder blocks
on my big toe,than abusing myself by visiting your website.
BTW: Shouldnt a successful Mambo,raking in the bucks (all $13,000 of them per
year) like you,have their own domain name by now?
You know,for around the same price as a bag of bud,you can register one! =o)
(Monthly hosting fee's and extra bandwidth charges will apply.)
Sean
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
(Houngan Aboudja) writes:
>What, & be the laughing stock of the Haitian Diaspora by association?
>I think not. You are not taken with any seriousness Kathy. You are
>viewed as an annoying nut at best, & a dangerous lunatic at worst
Funny, you keep saying this, as if constant repetition of a lie could make it
true. I have a happy house, I enjoy the support of the Vodouisant community in
Jacmel. I don't work with Houngans and Mambos from New York or Miami or
Port-au-Prince, so I haven't formed an opinion about any of them, and I
consider it impossible for any of them to have formed an opinion about me, with
the possible exception of Houngan Max Beauvoir, whom I have denounced in part
for claiming that he can cure AIDS (documented by award-winning author Amy
Wilentz in her book "The Rainy Season").
> they do not need the few
>pennies you pay in Jakmel for someone to say they are your friend.
(giggle)
Out of you and me, which one resorts to desperate tactics to create the
illusion of friendship? Sitting in C & C's coffee house all day ostentatiously
drawing vevers in a notebook in the hope of attracting comment and
conversation, as you do, is not my idea of a social life.
I repeat, I am happy in Jacmel, I have friends of good character and some
social standing, not a bunch of felons and adulterers.
>I am sure that you would love me to say this ("I am the intiatory son
>of Mambo Racine and Houngan Danise")
Moellendorf, I wouldn't CARE! In fact, since you sent me written death
threats, I am not especially proud of you.
> since my initiatory
>manbo is Marie Carmel (of Long Island)
She said to me that she NEVER gave you a kanzo. You originally claimed her as
your *witness* and not your mama kanzo, but Mambo Marie said to me that she
wasn't even in Haiti at the time you claim a second kanzo. If she had told me
that you were her initiate, I would have been DELIGHTED, you would be someone
else's problem then.
>You have no idea what is going on
>here in NOLA Cherie, nor will you any time soon. All you have is
>tripotayo fed to you by equally mental cases.
The word you are seeking above is "tripotaj", meaning gossip, not "tripotayo",
there is no such Creole word. My sources are a lot more reliable than you
imagine. Now, I don't live in New Orleans, I have done only three ceremonies
there in the past six months - a lave tet in December 2001, a service for
Erzulie Freda and Dambala Wedo and a lave tet in May 2002. So it is entirely
possible that you know more about what is going on in New Orleans than I - at
least, you certainly know more about what goes on in the seamy, steamy bath
houses there.
>Rasin, you are a loone
You mean l-o-o-n? There is no such English word as "loone". Mark Alexander
"Aboudja" Moellendorf, what was the last grade you completed in school?
>BTW: I see you have found the perfect groupies in the Spider-nut & the
>old fart Ritter
Who is "the Spider-nut"? Why do you characterize Mr. Ritter as an "old fart"?
You don't have much respect for other people, do you?
> may you be very happy together in
>your delusions singing "My Bonnie Lies Over the ocean" for your
>b-o-g-u-s LaSiren possessions.
I don't fake possessions, I don't have to! My lwa come when I call them. If
they didn't, I wouldn't fake, either, I would find out what was wrong and I
would correct it.
As far as singing popular songs for the lwa, this happens in Haiti all the time
- if a person knows Vodou songs so much the better, that is one reason why I am
very happy that Houngan Steven Denney has produced a CD of Vodou songs (contact
him at sc...@hotmail.com), but if they don't, then singing songs about the sea
is perfectly appropriate for La Sirene.
>You'll notice I do not answer your
>parrots, because they & their words are not significant... at all
Yes, I see that you disrespect almost every other person you notice!
>Clearly they do not know any
>of your supposed American initiates, all but three of whom (soon to be
>two of whom) have run fast as they can away from you
What? Any person who wants initiation can be put in touch with as many of my
happy and productive initiates as they want! Again, recycling these tired old
lies is nothing but an exercise in slander.
>Houngan Sorel Fenelon, & he
>remains my good friend. Papa Paul is another houngan in Miami
>entirely.
Oh, changing your story again, huh? You said, of Houngan Sorel, that you
"would never 'take kanzo from him'" because he "serves Makaya too much". You
also claimed that you were given the rank of sur point by Mambo Yaffa, but I
have since learned that this is yet another blatant lie. You lie a LOT,
Moellendorf.
>Idiot...
How childish.
Peace and love,
Bon Mambo Racine Sans Bout Sa Te La Daginen
"Se bon ki ra" - Good is rare
Haitian Proverb
Kathy Latzoni
<raci...@aol.com> writes:
>In article <cRcL8.2394$9H4...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Kathy
>Latzoni" <latz...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>>Actually, Aboudja, Michelle and Tribble's botanica is located at 2267 St.
>>Claude Ave... which is very near the intersection of St. Claude and
Marigny
>>Street.
>
>I know precisely where the Mistake Botanica is located.
Then you would know that the corner of St. Claude and Marigny, is
definitely a historic part of the Faubourg
Marigny / Bywater neighborhood. [This according to the maps drawn by both
the American Institute of
Architects, and the Preservation Resource Center of New Orleans.]
And you also would know that Island of Salvation, and Sallie Ann's home,
are within the boundaries of that same area as well. [In fact, if you take a
look at http://www.neworleans247.org/neighborhoods/faubourg.htm , you'll see
some lovely photos of the murals on Island of Salvation's front wall...]
> I am informed by New Orleanians
ITYM "unnamed sources, who may or may not exist" -- but do continue...
>I don't know that her area is a crack neighborhood, in fact I have heard
>that it is a relatively safe area, and I didn't notice people loitering or
>dealing dope out of cars in that area.
>
Neither did I, when we walked from St. Roch's Cemetery, across St. Claude
Ave, to the Island of Salvation on a warm November evening. [A few kids
playing in the street was about as "rough" as the neighborhood seemed to
get...]
> I have reported that people who know New Orleans
>far better than I
And who don't have names???
Not even "screen names", perhaps? ;)
>>What would your old neighbors in Roxbury say?
>
>I bet they would say, "That is why we have reclaimed our neighborhood, had
>the gangs broken up, arrested and imprisoned the dope dealers - so we could
>live in safety."
Sure, let's put some more young men of color in prison -- especially if we
can call them "gang members" or "dope
dealers".
But then what would you do if you wanted to buy weed? Or ayahuasca?
[Maybe Ross Heaven could help us out with that last request...]
>You are not welcome to the Roots Without End Society peristyle. You will
> be asked to leave if you appear, and if you do not leave, you will be
forcibly
>escorted off the premises by our security people. If you persist, you will
> be arrested for trespassing.
>
Yeesh, and here Aboudja & Dunni just got such a nice invitation back, too.
Owell, go ahead & be that way [it's kind of fun, actually, when you spin
your head & spit green pea soup like that...]
But, now: you're quite sure that you would recognize me, if you did meet me
in Jacmel??
And you're also quite sure that I'd be giving you the same name? :)
Off to check out Tamara's kanzo-bead page,
Kathy L.
David Ritter
> raci...@aol.com (Mambo Racine Sans Bout) wrote in message news:<20020604191603...@mb-fd.aol.com>...
> If you were to say, "I am the intiatory son of Mambo Racine and
> Houngan Danise", right from the start, you would have gotten much
> farther than you have now - no initiates, no parents, no money, and a
> piss-poor botanica in a dumpy part of New Orleans.<<<
>
> What, & be the laughing stock of the Haitian Diaspora by association?
Like I said in an earlier post, the word I got is that she has a good
reputation, I stated where I got my information, Where did you get
yours? From whom? Fabricated posting from an anomous poster?
> I think not. You are not taken with any seriousness Kathy. You are
> viewed as an annoying nut at best, & a dangerous lunatic at worst by
> Haitian Houngan & Manbo in the Diaspora.
Who are these Haitian Mambo & Hounans?
Or are you just going to point to another anymous posting.
> This is why you are
> associated with none of them... because they do not need the few
> pennies you pay in Jakmel for someone to say they are your friend.
> <yawn>
> I am sure that you would love me to say this ("I am the intiatory son
> of Mambo Racine and Houngan Danise"), but since I was never your
> "child" to begin with... but only your sibling, & since my initiatory
> manbo is Marie Carmel (of Long Island)
Not according to her
& my initiatory father is
> Freddy Senat (of Brooklyn), I dont think Ill be doing such a
> ridiculous thing any time soon... to say nothing of disrespecting
> them. If I did, what would that get me? A "horray" from your New Age
> White Groupies no doubt. Forgive me if I do not shudder with
> excitement over the thought! LOL You have no idea what is going on
> here in NOLA Cherie, nor will you any time soon. All you have is
> tripotayo fed to you by equally mental cases.
>
> Rasin, you are a loone; a certifiable mental case.
I've found her to be quite sane, your state of mind is the one I would
question
> I do not project at
> all... but you really need inpatient long-term psych care... to say
> nothing of meds. So ok, Ill give you props for it, & say "peace out".
>
> Houngan Aboudja
>
> BTW: I see you have found the perfect groupies in the Spider-nut & the
> old fart Ritter:
Old fart? And who is Spider nut?
>Both, much like you, seem incapable of reading a
> single word, much less a sentence & keeping it in context... & the
> later seems particularly lost in the fluffy-bunny summerland
> somewhere.
What in the world is fluffy-bunny summerland? Maybe you are in need of
psychiatric care
>You deserve each other... may you be very happy together in
> your delusions singing "My Bonnie Lies Over the ocean" for your
> b-o-g-u-s LaSiren possessions. You'll notice I do not answer your
> parrots,
Poeple have accused me of many things, being anyones parrot has never
been one of them. I say what I think, out of my own ideas.
because they & their words are not significant... at all,
> much less to the conversation at hand...
Because you can not back up ANYTHING you say, at all.
>Clearly they do not know any
> of your supposed American initiates, all but three of whom (soon to be
> two of whom) have run fast as they can away from you, & no longer have
> any thing to do with your craziness... Need I name names? LOL How very
> sad...
You obviously can't back that up, can you?
Wish you the Best,
David Ritter
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
<nos...@newsranger.com> writes:
>>I do hope to be producing a web page for Houngan Luckner and another for
>Mambo
>>Simone very soon. Keep watching!
>
>
>I think I'll pass. I feel I would be better amused dropping cinder blocks
>on my big toe,than abusing myself by visiting your website.
Fine, stick your fingers in your ears and holler, for all I care. Houngan
Luckner and Mambo Simone are lifelong residents of Jacmel, they both come from
Vodouisant families, and they are valued members of my house. Mambo Simone's
mom, Mambo Vierge, is the maman hunyo I spoke of in a previous post, and it is
she who is teaching my initiate Hounsi Philomene the finer points of that role.
>BTW: Shouldnt a successful Mambo,raking in the bucks (all $13,000 of them per
>year) like you,have their own domain name by now?
Why? I am perfectly happy with AOL. I don't need "RootsWithoutEnd.com", my
page is about Vodou. If "vodou.com" weren't taken maybe I might be interested,
but... I would rather spend the money feeding and caring for my Haitian
initiates, buying gifts for my international initiates, and so on.
I don't think $13,000 per year from Vodou-related activities is a huge amount
of money, nor is it a pittance. Naturally I also have income from professional
work that I use to pay my own living expenses as well, but I am glad that when
I have finished paying the drummers and the assistant clergy and buying every
kwi and kwa and govi and djakout and bouji and balenn, every gallon of kleren
and gaz blan, every chicken and dove and pig and goat, I still have something
left over to give my initiates, and even then have more left to take care of
them when they get sick, to feed them a few times a week, to help them pay
their children's school fees, and so on.
Ray
understand your frustration and bitterness since you got your elekes
and your godparents are probably not teaching you anything about
Santeria. Which explains why you have nothing constructive to teach or
share with anyone. If I was in your shoes I would be upset with those
who know more than you also. Faits donce de continuer de se resemmble
le paillasse que toi t'es. Tu m'après montrer ton vrai personage un
(_!_)!!!!
Ray
Sean Williams <nos...@newsranger.com> wrote in message news:<dowL8.21222$15....@www.newsranger.com>...
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
Latzoni" <latz...@yahoo.com> writes:
>Then you would know that the corner of St. Claude and Marigny...
>And you also would know that Island of Salvation, and Sallie Ann's home,
>are within the boundaries of that same area as well.
>> I am informed by New Orleanians
>
>ITYM "unnamed sources, who may or may not exist" -- but do continue...
Okay - you are right, I am not going to name this source, because I have not
asked permission, but this is what one person has explained to me in writing.
Others have concurred:
"As far as Houngan Grande's Voodoo Shop [Mark Moellendorf is often referred to
in the contemporary New Orleans Voodoo community with nicknames like "Houngan
Grande" and "King Houngan" "His Royal Hind End" and such, because of his
inflated ego], it is most definitely in a crack neighborhood, it's in the 7th
ward an area notorious for drugs and murder, any local New Orleanian will
attests to that. ... it's true that Sally's store is about a mile away, but in
New Orleans, a mile is another world. Furthermore, St. Roch cemetery is also in
one of the worst neighborhoods in the city. Directly across the street from the
cemetery is a park known as the "Killing Fields" because it is notorious for
gangland executions, more bodies have been found murdered there then in the
projects."
>> I have reported that people who know New Orleans
>>far better than I
>
>And who don't have names???
They have names, of course. I am not going to tell you their names, because I
have not asked permission. If they want, they can post here.
>>I bet they would say, "That is why we have reclaimed our neighborhood, had
>>the gangs broken up, arrested and imprisoned the dope dealers - so we could
>>live in safety."
>
>Sure, let's put some more young men of color in prison -- especially if we
>can call them "gang members" or "dope
>dealers".
You are aware, are you not, that there are some people who really are gang
members and dope dealers, right? You do know that being black doesn't make a
person automatically innocent, right? You are aware that some black people do
commit crimes, right? And you are aware that the people who reclaimed their
neighborhood black just like the gang members and the dope dealers who
terrorized them, right?
>But then what would you do if you wanted to buy weed? Or ayahuasca?
>[Maybe Ross Heaven could help us out with that last request...]
Ross Heaven, the distinguished author of "The Journey to You" and "Spirit In
The City", has written of his experiences with Peruvian shamans, including the
use of the ayahusca vine. I have said repeatedly that I, and Mark Alexander
"Aboudja" Moellendorf, and the former President of the United States, have all
smoked weed. I do know, however, that neither I nor ex-president Clinton has
committed crimes of violence, stuck up people, broken into people's houses, or
killed people, or joined gangs to commit crimes more effectively. Moellendorf
did send me death threats in writing, but I don't think it was the weed he
smoked which made him do that. So what is your point?
>>You are not welcome to the Roots Without End Society peristyle. You will
>> be asked to leave if you appear, and if you do not leave, you will be
>forcibly
>>escorted off the premises by our security people. If you persist, you will
>> be arrested for trespassing.
>
>Yeesh, and here Aboudja & Dunni just got such a nice invitation back, too.
Do you know, neither one of those two low-lifes have ever set foot in their
initiatory djevo again, since August of 1999? You are not my initiate, and
neither is Kevin. You are not welcome and neither is Kevin.
>But, now: you're quite sure that you would recognize me, if you did meet me
>in Jacmel??
>And you're also quite sure that I'd be giving you the same name? :)
I don't know what you look like, I only heard an account of your bizarre
behavior at a ceremony at Mambo Sally Glassman's house, throwing yourself down
and rolling on the floor and screaming your head off in an effort to imitate
what you mistakenly imagined would pass for a genuine "possession". I
certainly know what Kevin looks like. Based on your past behavior, which
includes instances of you forcing yourself into places where you are not
wanted, and on your habit of lying, perhaps you will attempt to disrupt the
Roots Without End Society's ceremonies, I don't know. If you do, it won't be
good for you.
Kevin Filan
Hash: SHA1
"Kathy S. Grey" <raci...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020606082135...@mb-mc.aol.com...
> Okay - you are right, I am not going to name this source, because I
> have not asked permission, but this is what one person has
> explained to me in writing. Others have concurred:
Then, later, Ms. Grey goes on to tell us:
> I don't know what you look like, I only heard an account of your
> bizarre behavior at a ceremony at Mambo Sally Glassman's house,
> throwing yourself down and rolling on the floor and screaming your
> head off in an effort to imitate what you mistakenly imagined would
> pass for a genuine "possession".
You know, I heard the EXACT same story about OTHER people who
regularly attend Sallie Anne Glassman's house. By exact, I mean down
to the verbs and adjectives you used.
And you know who I heard it from? None other than our old buddy
Omijuba -- Santero, Confessor, Intercessor, and Authorized
Distributor of Indio Products. (I'd add "Resident of his Mother's
Basement," but since he lives in the New Orleans area I know at least
that isn't true).
I'd accuse you of taking advantage of the mentally ill, but at least
you didn't take $2,500 from him in exchange for bogus kanzo
ceremonies. I suppose we all should be grateful for small favors.
Peace
Kevin Filan
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who'syamama
area, I can attest that:
1) Neither Mambo Sallie Anne's Salvation Botanica nor the New Orleans Mistic
Botanica are in or near a *killing fields* park or any other such place;
2) Both Salvation and New Orleans Mistic are in historic areas of town. The
only difference is the seven or more years effort by upper middle class and
wealthy whites to gentrify the river-side of the Marigny is now spreading
well into the river-side of the Bywater (where Salvation is located) thus
raising rents and housing prices such that the long-time elderly --both
white and black-- and the younger African-American residents no longer can
afford to live in the neighborhood and are slowly being driven out so that
the gentrifiers can live walking distance to the French Quarter so they can
stumble home from bars in the middle of the night and brag to their friends
about owning 100-year-old homes.
3) The gentrification process is slowly moving to the Lake side of the
Marigny (where Mistic is located) due to the above-referenced folks driving
housing prices up to such an extent that (horrors!) even white folks are
willing to live in a *run-down crack neighborhood* (your words, not mine).
4) The Mistic Botanica is on a stretch of St. Claude Ave. that is at once
commercial and historic and has been slated for revitalization by the City
of New Orleans. If anyone opens a viable business in a depressed economic
area -- such as exist all over New Orleans, he or she should be commended
for doing so when so many others flee the area in favor of French Quarter
tourist dollars or suburban lifestyles.
5) Aside from college students and restaurant/bar workers/frequenters who
want to live walking distance to the French Quarter but can't afford the
Marigny, there are precious few people of any ethnic background with
reasonable financial means who desire to live very close to where the
Salvation Botanica is located -- which is one or two blocks from Mambo
Sallie's home, for which I commend her. Those who do move there tend to
view themselves as *pioneers*. Do a search on realtor.com for houses in the
Bywater and you'll see many bargains -- by Northern standards certainly --
that have remained on the market for quite some time. The railroad tracks
seem to create a certain psychological barrier for many homebuyers.
If, Mambo Racine, you love New Orleans -- as it seems you must given your
intense interest in the area and your now becoming frequent visits -- why
would you bash someone who is trying to help the city improve by having more
businesses - hence more tax dollars for infrastructure (have you experienced
a NOLA pot hole?) and schools (one of the worst public school systems in the
US)?
"Mambo Racine Sans Bout" <raci...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020606082135...@mb-mc.aol.com...
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
rayowl...@aol.com (Ray) writes:
>Oh mais Sean cher; ça va mon amie? I finally got your number, and
>understand your frustration and bitterness since you got your elekes
>and your godparents are probably not teaching you anything about
>Santeria. Which explains why you have nothing constructive to teach or
>share with anyone. If I was in your shoes I would be upset with those
>who know more than you also.
Ohhhhh, is that what's up? I am scratching my head here wondering what makes
this man so hateful and jealous. Imagine - he has never met me, I have done
absolutely nothing to harm him in any way, and he is so filled with hatred and
bitterness toward me it's almost frightening.
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
<mrha...@excite.SPAMBGONE.com> writes:
>> I don't know what you look like, I only heard an account of your
>> bizarre behavior at a ceremony at Mambo Sally Glassman's house,
>> throwing yourself down and rolling on the floor and screaming your
>> head off in an effort to imitate what you mistakenly imagined would
>> pass for a genuine "possession".
>
>You know, I heard the EXACT same story about OTHER people who
>regularly attend Sallie Anne Glassman's house. By exact, I mean down
>to the verbs and adjectives you used.
>
>And you know who I heard it from? None other than our old buddy
>Omijuba
Well, that is between you and him. OmiJuba was not my source for the report of
Ms. Latzoni's freakish and disrespectful behavior - maybe she is now so famous
for acting like a wild animal that the story has been repeated and attributed
to other people?
> at least
>you didn't take $2,500 from him in exchange for bogus kanzo
>ceremonies.
Kanzo ceremonies in the Roots Without End Society are NEVER "bogus". Your lave
tet was not bogus either. If Omi Juba wanted to come kanzo with us, we would
do for him exactly that which we have done for many others, exactly that which
was done for me and for papa kanzo Houngan Fritzner "Po Pwa" Georges", in just
the same way.
It's a very good idea to have a reading to learn your lwa met tet, the lwa who
is the owner of your head. This knowledge can give you important insights into
your own personality. More than that, you can then serve your lwa met tet and
ask for help in achieving personal goals.
If you are going to be kanzo, I need to do a reading for you to determine your
lwa met tet, the lwa who is the guardian of your head. I need to do this so
that I can give you the most effective ceremonies possible. For people who are
going to be kanzo, there is no charge for the reading, it is free.
In Vodou, we often do work intended to influence love relationships. We do
food offerings, herbal baths, spells called "wanga", and other things.
Before I do any work in Vodou, however, I always try to do a reading. A
reading helps me to know who your spiritual allies are, what hidden influences
might be at work in a situation, and so on. That way I can work much more
effectively. Would you like me to do a reading for you? For me to do a
reading, you must prepare and send to me a white candle.
To prepare a white candle for a reading, take an ordinary white candle (smaller
is better than oversize), and pass it over your body downward from your head to
your toes, front and back (you do not need to undress). While you do this,
focus on your concerns. Then mark the candle with your thumbnail in whatever
way you choose, to make it yours personally.
Put the candle in a small padded mailer so it doesn't break, and mail it to me
along with a bank check or *international* money order for $51. Please do NOT
send cash or personal checks. Send your candle and fee to the following
address:
Ms. Kathy S. Grey (that is my "Christian" name)
P. O. Box 496
Tyngsboro, MA 01879
Please put my name on the check, and please also include your email handle so I
know who is who. You may also include a note updating me on any issues
pertaining to the objective of the reading. Once I get your candle I will do
the reading and email you the results.
Peace and love,
Bon Mambo Racine Sans Bout Sa Te La Daginen
"Se bon ki ra" - Good is rare
Haitian proverb
Mike
Latzoni at latz...@yahoo.com wrote on 6/5/02 7:09 PM:
> And you also would know that Island of Salvation, and Sallie Ann's home,
> are within the boundaries of that same area as well. [In fact, if you take a
> look at http://www.neworleans247.org/neighborhoods/faubourg.htm , you'll see
> some lovely photos of the murals on Island of Salvation's front wall...]
wow.. props to the artist who painted those, they are gorgeous!
mike
Mike
ritte...@hotmail.com wrote on 6/5/02 10:31 PM:
> Like I said in an earlier post, the word I got is that she has a good
> reputation, I stated where I got my information, Where did you get
> yours? From whom? Fabricated posting from an anomous poster?
umm, if i might have a word in here, these folks that Houngan Aboudja
associates with and shares opinions with are not the least bit anonymous..
there is a whole book about at least one person, who stayed at the house
last fall while out there lecturing at a Baton Rouge college. the nyc vodou
community seems pretty tight knit from what i gather. but neither i nor
anyone else has permission to throw anybody's name around. that is poor
manners.
if you have any background in magic, dunno if you do, im sure you would
understand the importance of a name.
but reputation is neither here nor there on either side.. after all, Jesus
himself had a "bad reputation". it depends on whose approbation you are
seeking. people's? or God's?
>
> Not according to her
Don't even go there my friend.
"Forgive them Father, they know not what they do."
>
> I've found her to be quite sane, your state of mind is the one I would
> question
To each their own. There is nothing wrong with that. Not everyone is
guaranteed to get along in this world. Civility tho at least helps reduce
the friction a bit.
>
> What in the world is fluffy-bunny summerland? Maybe you are in need of
> psychiatric care
It is a [pretty transparent] reference to Llewellyn-flavored Wicca.
I sincerely hope you have a productive time in the djevo.. may you find your
destiny therein.
blessings
mike
Sean Williams
>
>Oh mais Sean cher; ça va mon amie? I finally got your number, and
>understand your frustration and bitterness since you got your elekes
>and your godparents are probably not teaching you anything about
>Santeria. Which explains why you have nothing constructive to teach or
>share with anyone. If I was in your shoes I would be upset with those
>who know more than you also. Faits donce de continuer de se resemmble
>le paillasse que toi t'es. Tu m'après montrer ton vrai personage un
>(_!_)!!!!
>
>Ray
Greetings Ray,
At the request and urging of someone I do respect,I am going to keep my
post directed to you,as civil and polite as possible.
*************
BTW: The "Houma-ized" post,was not a dig at you personally, I was just
pickin on the area...nothing more! (pouvez-vous le trouver à votre coeur pour me
pardonner?)
*************
First and foremost,the Godparent that I am blessed to have,at the time being
doesnt teach me anything about "Santeria" and I am extremely grateful for
that. I would much more prefer to learn about "Lukumi" and that is what he
teaches me about.
Secondly,I am not an Olorisha,so I have no right to assume I can teach anyone
about Lukumi protocol,ritual or ceremony. If I see a post on a topic that I
have recently been wondering about,recently asked my Godparent about or some
thing I have learned about in the past, I will comment on it.
Are you here to discuss Vodoun,Palo or Lukumi? Or, are you here in Racines
effort to rally her troops?
***************************
I don't know what it is,or why I have this instilled sense of hostility
against people that come across as "self-proclaimed" authorities on Lukumi,
maybe it has something to do with my past experiences with a few people,but
I do. Having said that, I welcome you to answer my question(s) below:
Ray,are you an Olorisha *AND* have the Orisha given you the right to teach
Dillogun to people coming to you for "Spiritist Initiations"?
****************************
I am not suggesting that it is wrong for you or anyone else to study Dillogun or
throw unconsecrated cowries in an attempt to learn to identify Odu.
If you are trying to better prepare yourself for the future,assuming reading
Dillogun is in fact something that has been indicated by the Orisha,to be a
needed part of your future,more power to you!
If you had an Oriate or Italero to study with,thats great! You were blessed
in that sense. But unless you spent time on the mat and were shaved,you lack
an important component needed to read Dillogun! That component being,
"Afudashe"!
Furthermore,if you have not been validly initiated as a Lukumi Olorisha,
how on earth can you teach other people to cast Dillogun? I dont know what
you were taught during your time spent "studying" Santeria,but you should
have been informed about the "who" and "whys" concerning Dillogun. I am of
the school of thought that three centuries of Afro-Cuban Orisha Worshipers
did not preserve their religion and means of communication with the Orisha
to be dispenced to others via someones Wiccan and Spiritist endevours. Thats
insulting to them and every living elder passing the tradition on to others!
I noticed in your book,you describe your method of divination and it appears
as if you state that you divine using a method employed by Priests of Ifa.
Now you are saying you cast Dillogun....which is it? Do you know the
difference between the two? ( I am not being crass,just asking)
I am also genuinely interested as to how an Elder of the Black Forest Tradition,
a self proclaimed Hoodoo Doctor (and Ray, I have family in Houma and no one
remembers any Hoodoo'n being done by a Rev. Ray),graduate of the Gardenian
school of Wicca and church seal holder of the All Saints Chapel of Faith, has
any bearing on your supposed knowledge and authenticity in regards to Santeria
or Voodoo?
This appears as nothing more than self-implied authority. You state the name of
the man that supposedly taught you Dillogun. You do not say whether or not you
were initiated into the mysteries of a paticular Orisha by him though.
You say you sponsored him as an immigrant to the USA,and while that is
very humanitarian of you,what does this,if anything, have to do with what
I am asking you about? You report he was cut in Palo...so are many Cubans!
Were you cut in Palo by him?
By no means do I consider this a big achievement on my part,but when I was
15 I joined The Order of the Rosey Cross. I had a pile of degree cert.'s
obtained by in person and mail order testing...LOL!
As a kid in Escatawpa,Mississippi I hung out in the African-American cemetary
and I eventually befriended the Gounds Keeper who was a root-worker. I learned
allot of things from him.
The man I was raised by is a Cuban born Olorisha and Palero,my mother is also an
Olorisha. I was also around my "Uncle" by marriage,who was an Oriate,quite
a bit. I had to navigate for him between St. Louis and Miami becase he didnt
read or speak english at the time. Being in that environment, I saw,heard and
read many things an Aleyo really shouldnt be privy to.
While I was in Miami,I stayed with my "Grandmother" by marriage, Gloria F. Mila-
Colon (ibae). She was a busy Santera and the woman who was insisting to crown
me....although I protested that and refused to have my head shaved and wear
white for a year! Something in hindsight I still have mixed emotions about
today,maybe I should have not resisted...but nothing happens until its supposed
to! I learned quite allot from her too.
What I am getting at is,no matter what initiations "those" people have,or what
I may have picked up information wise from them,have anything to do with me
and what *I* am allowed to do in regards to Lukumi/Santeria!
Because they were born in Cuba,does nothing to bolster my position
either! LOL!
Neither does any other knowledge I may have picked up about *other* spiritual
disciplines.
So, how does any of the things you have stated,bolster your position?
What initiations have you undergone that give you the right to cast
Dillogun and teach Dillogun to your initiates,in any setting,especially a
"Spiritist Church"?
How exactly does Dillogun fit into the practices of a "**Spritist**
Diviner Priest"?
************************
Répondrez-vous à mes questions? En anglais pour que le "N.G." lise-t-il?
Je vous espère ai vu mon commentaire "de pipe de Hoze" pour ce que
c'était....***comedy***... rien plus.Si vous vous sentiez qui était
une attaque sur vous personnellement, je fais des excuses!
Dans tout le sincèrement, je vous souhaite des bénédictions sur vos persuits
spirituels. Pensez juste deux fois, avant que vous incluiez Mambo Racine dans
eux. ***PUT SOME THOUGHT INTO WHAT OTHERS ARE SAYING!***
Vous ne devez pas croire ce que le clown indique, écoutez les autres.
Bon est en effet rare et Racine sait ce qu'elle doesnt ont et ce qu'elle
biseautent l'offre.
Pourquoi ainsi beaucoup de gens parleraient-elles dehors contre Racine, si
quelque chose droite de n'était pas?
*****de l'argent peut être gagné encore, votre bien-être ne peut pas!*****
Je ne lancerai plus le kaka à vous!
"bonne journée."
Sean [whose French,is almost as bad as his Spanish!]
Sean Williams
Bon est en effet rare et Racine sait ce qu'elle doesnt ont et ce qu'elle
biseautent l'offre. > ^pas^ <
I couldnt remember how to translate "Does Not"...........good thing my
sister did! HAHA! Thanks Ash!
Sean
Kathy Latzoni
news:<20020606082135...@mb-mc.aol.com>...
> I am not going to name this source, because I have
not
> asked permission, but this is what one person has explained to me in
<snip uncredited, unsubstantiated quote>
Ah yes, another screen name agrees with you. Ho hum. ;)
Here's something interesting: the *only* person in NOLA who told us
that St.Roch was in a dangerous neighborhood, was none other than
OmiJuba/Michael Cabrera/the Reverend Woolverton/whatever he's calling
himself lately.
Amazing coincidence, wouldn't you say?
[I suppose the 7th Ward couldn't possibly be as swanky as the parish
where Rev. Woolverton lives with his mom...]
> You are aware, are you not, that there are some people who really are
gang
> members and dope dealers, right? You do know that being black doesn't
make a
> person automatically innocent, right? You are aware that some black
people do
> commit crimes, right?
Why, of course; I wonder how many of them belong to the Sanpwel.
> I don't know what you look like, I only heard an account of your
bizarre
> behavior at a ceremony at Mambo Sally Glassman's house, throwing
yourself
down
> and rolling on the floor and screaming your head off in an effort to
imitate
> what you mistakenly imagined would pass for a genuine "possession".
??????? [Is a puzzlement.]
I must say this "throwing [myself] down and rolling on the floor" business,
is certainly news to me...
In fact, I'd like to hear more about it. Perhaps you could ask Sallie Ann
herself, or
Elly, or anybody else who was there, to fill us in on the details?
If this did, in fact, happen -- and is not just another of the story
hours inside Rev. Woolverton's head -- then I guess it was a genuine
possession by *something*, since I don't remember it at all. <:)
> perhaps you will attempt to disrupt the
> Roots Without End Society's ceremonies, I don't know. If you do, it
won't
be
> good for you.
>
Eh, I haven't decided yet about the "disrupting" part; it could be more
fun, actually, to sit quietly through the whole thing.
And just write up all the details when I get back home.
That was a very sweet email you just sent to my other account, by the way.
:)
Regards,
Kathy L.
Ray
For one thing All Saints Chapel of Faith was never in Houma.
I do not claim to be a graduate from the Gardnerian school of wicca as
there is no such thing to my knowledge, I am a graduate of the
Seax-Wica Seminary founded by Raymond Buckland himself. There is a
difference here. If you actually read page 215 it will say Seax-Wica
Seminary in my Saint book. NOT GARDNERIAN. Yah!
I spent 6 to 8 years of my life envolved in Santeria. My godparents
lived in Kenner, La. (and no they did not have a restaurant) in which
I did receive the elekes, warriors (Ellegua,Ogoun Ochosi, and Osun),
Obatala, Yemaya, Ochun, Chango, Olokun. According to my godparents I
had already received half of the asientoin this house of ocha. I chose
NOT to become a Santero. And you know what? my godparents were scared
of Vodou, Hougans, and Mambos. Go figure!!!
Rigoberto Chafre Escobar is an "Omo Ellegua". This means that he made
saint in Ellegua. Who was my elder in ocha. My padrino made saint in
Chango and my madrina made saint in Yemaya. I learned the dillogún
from him (Rigoberto)by acting as his interpreter for English speaking
clients. I was my godfather's assistant since I was the first person
to receive the elekes and warriors from him when he came to the US
also From Camageuy, Cuba.
In none of my writing do I claim to teach Santeria or Lukumi, this is
somehting that you are ASSUMING and perhaps others like you. For one
thing I do not claimto be a Santero or a Babalawo.In the neo-pagan
community I am a priest in my own right. The Spiritism that I practice
and teach is based on the writings of Allan Kardec aka Kardecism. Of
which the neo-pagan/wiccan community in the US can greatly benefit
from its teachings.
As far as the shells readings are concerned, these same 16 pattens are
also used in a *European* system of divination called *geomancy*,
hence *Latin* names as given in my Saint book. Now this may come as a
rude awakening to you, but, neither Santeria nor Lukumi hold the
*monopoly* on geomancy. It is a system of divination originating in
Arabia and spread to both Europe and Africa. So you know what? you
people need to get out of your box. For one thing I do not give any
interpretations in my Saint book to the 16 geometric patterns listed,
therefore, you have no clue, idea, nor concept as to what
intrepretation I use for any of these 16 patterns. You say you
studyed the rosy cross? well go buy yourself a copy of the Complete
Golden Dawn System of Magic by Isreal Regarde and you will see the
same 16 geometric patterns also used in the African system or any
other book on GEOMANCY for that matter. Well I can tell you that I
have blended interpretations from both EUROPE and AFRICA for each of
the 16 patterns taking the best of both worlds. And you know what? it
makes no difference what I use to get the patterns, dots, four cowries
or even 16, it is still just as much a EUROPEAN system as it is
AFRICAN. On this
issue you can pound sand.
Ray
Sean Williams <nos...@newsranger.com> wrote in message news:<t3RL8.21387$15....@www.newsranger.com>...
IyaOshuntoki/Manbo C. Lavi
invitation back, too.
>
Racine: Do you know, neither one of those two low-lifes have ever set
foot in their initiatory djevo again, since August of 1999? You are
not my initiate, and neither is Kevin. You are not welcome and
neither is Kevin.
Manbo D: Racine you call Me a low life? LMOA. Girl you have to look
up to see the dust on the bottom of my shoe. Bless your heart!
Now she results to name calling, first the lies, then the insults,
what a real mambo?
Please, oh please do come to the service for Ogu. I'll pay for your
ticket, cab fare, and a personal security guard of your choice.
Wonder what Ogu will do this time? Oh but I forgot, you don't know
what black men will do, do you? I forget myself. How many will be
left after you put them all in jail, deny them the opportunity to
serve Gine instead of you, or allow them to see economic advancement
in neighborhoods that so desperately need reform. Heck maybe they
should just leave only a few black marijuana dealers out on the street
that cater to you, leave all the white drug dealers alone and the
economy should boost itelf in a matter of days. Hey in fact let's
allow any white person who has committed a crime out of jail and then
we will have the Racine catering society that she daydreams about.
As for her invitation, I personally want nothing to do with Racine. I
would not care if the invitation was attached to the winning lottery
ticket hand carried by St Ann with mother Theresa as an escort, I
wouldn't go. To tell the truth, I wouldn't walk accross the street to
spit in her face if she was on fire. Douse her with some perfume
maybe, something cheap like Jean Nate or chantily, if they still make
it. In fact these last few post have been more than enough. She
takes up way too much time with her antagonistic chicanery. You guys
do not get it! I do not like mess. There is never any intelligent
conversation with this woman, it is always about keyboard
confrontation, confussion, conflict, chaos. Is she really worth the
space, time, energy or even thought?
If you are just bored let me suggest meditation and auroma therapy.
Meditation gives you the opportunity to irradicate the negative spirit
that she continually summons with her presence and also gives you the
privilege to bind the beast that she summons in even the most patient
person. Ignore her! Every post that comes accross the screen with
her name attached to it, simply delete it. Guess what? Her goal is
to get you to respond, if you do not respond, despite what she types,
she continues to look like a piece of driftwood screaming at a tree.
Yet if you want to give her some color, respond. Let her remain the
pale lifeless ghost in a nightmare that you woke up from.
Look, this has been an interesting exercise in typing skills, but I
have had enough of this. I really have some exciting things to do.
Peace,
Manbo D.
perfume, champagne, flowers, cake, dancing, music---Surround yourself
in love.
Sean Williams
No,it was in Baton Rouge. But you claim to have done "work" in
your reported "Home Town" of Houma.
J'ai la famille dans Houma et personne se souvient de vous faire n'importe
quel travail de racine là-bas.
>I do not claim to be a graduate from the Gardnerian school of wicca as
>there is no such thing to my knowledge, I am a graduate of the
>Seax-Wica Seminary founded by Raymond Buckland himself.
I do apologize,I always seem to confuse these two mediocre Warlocks!
Thanks for the clarification though.
>There is a difference here. If you actually read page 215 it will say Seax-Wica
>Seminary in my Saint book. NOT GARDNERIAN. Yah!
Again,duly noted. Yet I never bought your book and ***Je le plus certainement
*pas* le garde vers comme une espèce de ref. le manuel, si j'ai fait!***
I am fond of "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance" though!
>I spent 6 to 8 years of my life envolved in Santeria. My godparents
>lived in Kenner, La. (and no they did not have a restaurant) in which
>I did receive the elekes, warriors (Ellegua,Ogoun Ochosi, and Osun),
>Obatala, Yemaya, Ochun, Chango, Olokun. According to my godparents I
>had already received half of the asientoin this house of ocha. I chose
>NOT to become a Santero. And you know what? my godparents were scared
>of Vodou, Hougans, and Mambos. Go figure!!!
Okay...so you are Media Asiento,in the proper meaning. Not claiming to be,
based on having received the Illekes,Elegua and Warrior's only,like some
people mistakenly assert.
But you orginally said:"And yes, I consider my self a diviner priest
and anyone that I teach to become a Spiritist having been taught the
dillogún by Omo Ellegua Rigoberto Chafre Escobar who is also cut in Palo.
Who I also sponsored to gain citizenship status when he came to the US
from Camaguey, Cuba."
For one,the Palo and citizenship ref.'s,threw me off some. I was not quite
sure what they have to do with the subject at hand and I am still not
sure........
It came across to me,that you were saying that you were taught the
Dillogun by Omo Ellegua Rigoberto Chafre Escobar and in turn, were
teaching others Dillogun.
Now if I mis-construed something,it wasnt my fault for doing so. I was
merely asking you a question based off of your statement,as it appeared!
You made no mention of "Geomancy",African or otherwise originally!
Do yourself a favor and re-read that statement. If I or anyone else, are in
a box,youre putting "us" in it!
BTW: I dont know if word has gotten to PA. yet,but you might want to remove
"VOUS LES GENS" from your vocabulary. It isnt considered Pollitically Correct
in this day and age.
>Rigoberto Chafre Escobar is an "Omo Ellegua". This means that he made
>saint in Ellegua. Who was my elder in ocha.
Ray, I am aware what Omo,Olo,Oni, etc. denote.
***il n'y a pas de Saint fait***! Le Dogme catholique n'a pas d'endroit dans le
"Igbodu". Cela ni ici ni là-bas vraiment....mia culpa!
>The Spiritism that I practice and teach is based on the writings of Allan >Kardec aka Kardecism. Of which the neo-pagan/wiccan community in the US can >greatly benefit from its teachings.
Yes... anyone involved in Lukumi will at one time or another,be exposed
to Kardecism. The philosophy is a beautiful one! Good point.
>As far as the shells readings are concerned, these same 16 pattens are
>also used in a *European* system of divination called *geomancy*,
>hence *Latin* names as given in my Saint book. Now this may come as a
>rude awakening to you, but, neither Santeria nor Lukumi hold the
>*monopoly* on geomancy. It is a system of divination originating in
>Arabia and spread to both Europe and Africa. So you know what? you
>people need to get out of your box.
No rude awakening here Ray. I have brushed up on my "divinatory history"
throughout various cultures.Furthermore,I never suggested nor implied
Santeria/Lukumi held a monopoly on anything. Where did you get that from?
>For one thing I do not give any interpretations in my Saint book to the 16 geometric patterns listed, therefore, you have no clue, idea, nor concept as to what intrepretation I use for any of these 16 patterns.
Avec tout respect dû, mon ami:
I never claimed to have. How I would understand something that you***concocté de
l'air mince***, is beyond me.
>You say you studyed the rosy cross? well go buy yourself a copy of the Complete
>Golden Dawn System of Magic by Isreal Regarde and you will see the
>same 16 geometric patterns also used in the African system or any
>other book on GEOMANCY for that matter.
Maybe 15 or 16 years ago.....but not today.
Whats that saying...I put away my toys,when I became a man,
or something like that? I dont dabble in Magick anymore.
I see no value in following the same rocky path,started by a herion addict.
Most of us know where it lead Mr. Crowely...right?
But then again he was one of the "original spokesman" for eclectic practices,
so I see where youre coming from.
>Well I can tell you that I have blended interpretations from both EUROPE and >AFRICA for each of the 16 patterns taking the best of both worlds. And you know what? it makes no difference what I use to get the patterns, dots, four cowries or even 16, it is still just as much a EUROPEAN system as it is AFRICAN.
Ray,with all due respect, keep the "monopoly" on this esoteric information... I
dont want it. If it works for you,thats grand! I am not and have not,"knocked
it" and I am not asking to "try it" either!
>On this issue you can pound sand.<
Ahem...Luz y progresso to you too,my friend!
"Merry parting from Rev. Ray,to never meet again" =o)
Sean
who'syamama
of the 9th ward. I always have trouble with wards' boundaries. St. Bernard
Ave. runs through the 7th ward.
"Kathy Latzoni" <latz...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6hVL8.2007$1E5...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
who'syamama
"Mike" <sp...@mikerock.dreamhost.com> wrote in message
news:B924FB08.1F4F2%sp...@mikerock.dreamhost.com...
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
>For one thing All Saints Chapel of Faith was never in Houma.
LOL! This whole entire crew, Mark Alexander "Aboudja" Moellendorf, Sean,
Dunni... all of them have an allergy to the truth.
Peace and love,
Bon Mambo Racine Sans Bout Sa Te La Daginen
"Se bon ki ra" - Good is rare
Haitian Proverb
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
<who'sya...@NOSPAM.net> writes:
>If, Mambo Racine, you love New Orleans -- as it seems you must given your
>intense interest in the area and your now becoming frequent visits -- why
>would you bash someone who is trying to help the city improve by having more
>businesses
Oh brother. Mark Alexander "Aboudja" Moellendorf is not "trying to help the
city of New orleans improve", he is trying to help his bank balance improve.
That's not a sin, but it has nothing to do with any altruistic purpose.
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
Latzoni" <latz...@yahoo.com> writes:
>Eh, I haven't decided yet about the "disrupting" part; it could be more
>fun, actually, to sit quietly through the whole thing.
>And just write up all the details when I get back home.
You are not welcome. Not to disrupt, not to sit quietly. Not welcome. If you
appear, you will be escorted off the grounds. If you persist, you will be
arrested for trespassing.
>That was a very sweet email you just sent to my other account, by the way.
I have sent no emails to you, to any account at all! You're nuts.
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
iyaosh...@yahoo.com (IyaOshuntoki/Manbo C. Lavi) writes:
>Manbo D: Racine you call Me a low life?
I sure do! What would you call a person like this: committing adultery,
sleeping with your intiator to try to get control of the business end of the
work in that peristyle, blackmailing him with threats of rape to try to get him
to give your Mom an asson for a pitiful $700, trying to solicit contributions
for "poor Haitians" to pay for your kanzo...
It amazes me how your scummy little crew are perfectly happy to lie and slam
and slander and print all sorts of stuff that isn't true about me, here and
even in places where I can't respond, but when I tell the truth about you all
on forums where you can read what I have to say, you get mad.
I bet you forgot about those syrupy, flowery emails you sent me after your
kanzo - and then how you wanted to kanzo people with Danise and I for twice the
price and pocket the difference, and get the asson for your mother (now falsely
claiming to be asogwe) on the cheap - and how when you couldn't get over,
suddenly Houngan Danise became a "rapist".
Yeah, I call you a low life, and that is a mild term for what you are. All of
the long wailing string of slander you write is just that - slander. Sending
Michael Graves to the Rendez-Vous during the past two kanzos to threaten the
proprietor and tell her that she should "give the peristyle to Dunni" is
pathetic! Taking money from people and then not giving them services - oh yes,
they came to me in Haiti after you were done ripping them off - is wrong,
wrong, wrong.
When people meet you, you come across all sugar and spice. You sure had me
fooled! Even when your past contacts in Vodou warned me about you I didn't
believe them. But that pretty face of yours covers a rotten heart. And you
know what? There is NOTHING you and your crew of liars can do to drag me down
- your experience since 1999 should have taught you that by now.
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
Latzoni" <latz...@yahoo.com> writes:
>Here's something interesting: the *only* person in NOLA who told us
>that St.Roch was in a dangerous neighborhood, was none other than
>OmiJuba/Michael Cabrera/the Reverend Woolverton/whatever he's calling
>himself lately.
>
>Amazing coincidence, wouldn't you say?
I would say that you have a paranoid obsession with poor ol' OmiJuba! Why are
you on his case like that, he doesn't even post here any more.
What I have heard about the neighborhood in which the Mistake Botanica is
located, I heard from several people, not just one. What I heard about your
disgusting behavior at Mambo Sally's house, I did not hear from OmiJuba at all.
Satisfied?
David Ritter
> umm, if i might have a word in here, these folks that Houngan Aboudja
> associates with and shares opinions with are not the least bit anonymous..
> there is a whole book about at least one person, who stayed at the house
> last fall while out there lecturing at a Baton Rouge college. the nyc vodou
> community seems pretty tight knit from what i gather. but neither i nor
> anyone else has permission to throw anybody's name around. that is poor
> manners.
>
> if you have any background in magic, dunno if you do, im sure you would
> understand the importance of a name.
My entire point in the matter was that his accusations were without
merit. He keeps repeating those faceless accusations as though they
proved something. They don't. I have proof to the contrary. He's lying
and thinks he can get away with it. Maybe he thinks we are all stupid
and won't try to find out for ourselves.
> but reputation is neither here nor there on either side.. after all, Jesus
> himself had a "bad reputation". it depends on whose approbation you are
> seeking. people's? or God's?
Hmmm... I think that because you want God's approbation doesn't mean
that you want your name dragged through the mud, or shouldn't
challenge lies about you, or in this case someone elses.
> To each their own. There is nothing wrong with that. Not everyone is
> guaranteed to get along in this world. Civility tho at least helps reduce
> the friction a bit.
Poeple sometimes use lies to hurt other poeple. When that happens,
Should one just sit back and let damage be done? Do you know that
poeple just learning and starting are being confused by all this? They
are the ones who will be hurt most, to not say a word or challenge
slander can be interprted as one admitting that the slander is true.
I've seen this before.
> It is a [pretty transparent] reference to Llewellyn-flavored Wicca.
Well, thanks for the info. I'm not Wiccan of any flavor, but I
certainly don't have a problem with Wicca. I wounder if Hounan Aboudja
Does?
> I sincerely hope you have a productive time in the djevo.. may you find your
> destiny therein.
Wish you thhe Best,
David Ritter
who'syamama
while the accusations of the other party are not. Have you tried to contact
any of the other people mentioned as former initiates in order to get
feedback from them as part of your research prior to commiting to the trip
with Mambo Racine?
It seems to me that all parties would do well to keep the names of other
people out of their little rants. Yet, I find it interesting that you seem
to have no problem with Mambo Racine spouting off accusations that others
say are lies while accusing the others of some great evil.
Truth be told, none of us can be certain what happened to whom when unless,
of course, we were present for all or part of these events.
"David Ritter" <ritte...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fb04d286.02060...@posting.google.com...
Kathy Latzoni
"Mambo Racine Sans Bout" <raci...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020607103540...@mb-fj.aol.com...
> In article <6hVL8.2007$1E5...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Kathy
> Latzoni" <latz...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> >Eh, I haven't decided yet about the "disrupting" part; it could be more
> >fun, actually, to sit quietly through the whole thing.
> >And just write up all the details when I get back home.
>
> You are not welcome. Not to disrupt, not to sit quietly. Not welcome.
If you
> appear, you will be escorted off the grounds. If you persist, you will be
> arrested for trespassing.
>
You appear to be missing the point, luv: how would you ever know who I was?
Particularly since you've admitted you wouldn't recognize me, if you met me
in person.
[After all, you've kanzoed people who "wrote to you under another e-mail
address" before...]
> >That was a very sweet email you just sent to my other account, by the
way.
>
> I have sent no emails to you, to any account at all! You're nuts.
>
Or, you haven't sent any emails to "Kathy Latzoni" recently, you mean. ;)
Regards,
Kathy L.
Kathy Latzoni
"Mambo Racine Sans Bout" <raci...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020607103858...@mb-fj.aol.com...
> What I have heard about the neighborhood in which the Mistake Botanica is
> located, I heard from several people, not just one. What I heard about
your
> disgusting behavior at Mambo Sally's house, I did not hear from OmiJuba at
all.
>
> Satisfied?
>
Nah, I'll be satisfied when I hear the quotes from named, attributed
sources.
That does tend to make one's stories *so* much more believable, after all.
[Didn't they ever teach you about that in journ school?... Sheesh, I'm not
surprised you're no longer with Reuters.]
Regards,
Kathy L.
Kevin Filan
Hash: SHA1
"David Ritter" <ritte...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fb04d286.02060...@posting.google.com...
> My entire point in the matter was that his accusations were without
> merit. He keeps repeating those faceless accusations as though they
> proved something. They don't. I have proof to the contrary. He's
> lying and thinks he can get away with it. Maybe he thinks we are
> all stupid and won't try to find out for ourselves.
Seems pretty interesting that LOTS of people seem to keep making many
of the SAME "faceless accusations."
David: you read the excerpts from Regina Scott's webpage? Racine
took several thousand dollars from this woman, and told her to lie to
her legal guardians (not to mention her parole officer) so that she
could give Racine money. Racine has admitted to this, although of
course she doesn't understand why this behavior is inappropriate.
Do you want to be initiated by a woman who would do something like
this? Or, if you already have been initiated, are you proud of this
kind of behavior? I note that not ONE of her other initiates have
stepped forth to defend her on her abuse of Regina Scott's illness.
> Hmmm... I think that because you want God's approbation doesn't
> mean that you want your name dragged through the mud, or shouldn't
> challenge lies about you, or in this case someone elses.
Racine has been pretty quick to throw her own "faceless allegations"
about. You may want to check out some of the things she had to say
about Houngan Danise David, not to mention her never ending rants
about anal rape and pornography obsessions.
But, of course, you and Ray will do what you see as best in your own
eyes.
Peace
Kevin Filan
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makingtrouble
> [Mark Moellendorf is often referred to
> in the contemporary New Orleans Voodoo community with nicknames like "Houngan
> Grande" and "King Houngan" "His Royal Hind End" and such, because of his
> inflated ego],
You forgot *Ass-bouja* and *A-Boob-Job*
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
Latzoni" <latz...@yahoo.com> writes:
>Nah, I'll be satisfied when I hear the quotes from named, attributed
>sources.
Oh, you mean like when your crew of nutcases say things like, "well, a lot of
reputable Houngans say you don't have to keep your vow of abstinence for all
forty-one days"? LOL.
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
no_one_you_...@hotmail.com (makingtrouble) writes:
>> [Mark Moellendorf is often referred to
>> in the contemporary New Orleans Voodoo community with nicknames like
>"Houngan
>> Grande" and "King Houngan" "His Royal Hind End" and such, because of his
>> inflated ego],
>
>You forgot *Ass-bouja* and *A-Boob-Job*
Oh, yeah, I forgot - that guy has more nicknames than I can remember!
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
Latzoni" <latz...@yahoo.com> writes:
>You appear to be missing the point, luv: how would you ever know who I was?
You're right, I don't know what you look like. We don't let just anyone wander
in to a kanzo though, you would have to either lie and tell me you were someone
else, in which case if you look anything like your description I would be very
suspicious and would keep a close eye on you, OR you would tell me the truth
and be escorted off the premises immdiately.
>> I have sent no emails to you, to any account at all! You're nuts.
>>
>
>Or, you haven't sent any emails to "Kathy Latzoni" recently, you mean. ;)
Fine, you are lying and pretending to be someone else, that's no surprise.
Royster
I again extend my apologies for the negative messages I "aimed" at you.
I haven't been in this newsgroup for a "long" time, but I have indeed
been here long enough to see that your accusations of people inventing
new screen names is not a lie, nor a manipulative maneuver from you at
all. How could it be that these "new" people suddenly pop up and know
"all these things" about you? Forgive me for accusing you as a
"transgressor" in this newsgroup when I earlier joined. Unfortunately,
new people signing on this list will see recent discussions and may draw
immediate, hasty, conclusions--just as I did when I first signed on.
They'll see you describing your activities, they'll see the people
against you, and they'll see you defending yourself and accusing some of
them of inventing screen names. And...the newbies will draw the wrong
conclusions. I've learned a very good lesson from this--it takes a few
months, minimum, to acquire an understanding of this newsgroup of people
who post, why they post, and what they post. I have no doubt I will
learn more myself.
Truth distills itself over time. And when it is all over, only Truth
remains. Flame Wars, on the other hand, come and go, just like they
always have and probably always will. So for the folks bored with the
flame war in progress, my advice is--"enjoy the ride." You may learn
something you didn't know before. And for the new folks--welcome! Lay
aside your tools of labor, and rest awhile! You're bound to read
something interesting.
Royster
In article <20020608135659...@mb-fw.aol.com>,
raci...@aol.com says...
Kathy Latzoni
> You're right, I don't know what you look like. We don't let just anyone
wander
> in to a kanzo though, you would have to either lie and tell me you were
someone
> else, in which case if you look anything like your description I would be
very
> suspicious and would keep a close eye on you,
So, you'll expect to be quite busy during your next few kanzos and
workshops, then?...
> >Or, you haven't sent any emails to "Kathy Latzoni" recently, you mean.
;)
>
> Fine, you are lying and pretending to be someone else, that's no surprise.
>
I would imagine the surprise comes afterwards. <:)
Regards,
Kathy L.
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
and post and post about how you might sneak in, pretend to be someone else,
whatever. That says a great deal about you, but nothing else.
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
roy...@austin.rr.com (Royster) writes:
> I have indeed
>been here long enough to see that your accusations of people inventing
>new screen names is not a lie, nor a manipulative maneuver from you at
>all.
Ah, you see?
> How could it be that these "new" people suddenly pop up and know
>"all these things" about you?
Actually, they don't really "know 'all these things' ", they just repeat the
same lies and slander under all those screen names.
>Forgive me for accusing you as a
>"transgressor" in this newsgroup when I earlier joined.
Royster, you apologized a while ago, and I consider anything negative you
wrote, long forgotten.
>Unfortunately,
>new people signing on this list will see recent discussions and may draw
>immediate, hasty, conclusions--just as I did when I first signed on.
Maybe. But you're no dummy, and most people aren't, they will figure it out
just like you did.
Kathy Latzoni
Hash: SHA1
"Mambo Racine Sans Bout" <raci...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020608184033...@mb-ml.aol.com...
> Royster, you apologized a while ago, and I consider anything
> negative you wrote, long forgotten.
From: http://samvak.tripod.com/npdtips.html , a page dedicated to
Narcissistic Personality Disorder by one of the leading authorities
on the subject
* * * * *
FIVE DON'T DO'S
How to Avoid the Wrath of the Narcissist
* Never disagree with the narcissist or contradict him
* Never offer him any intimacy
* Look awed by whatever attribute matters to him (for instance: by
his professional achievements or by his good looks, or by his success
with women and so on)
* Never remind him of life out there and if you do, connect it
somehow to his sense of grandiosity
* Do not make any comment, which might directly or indirectly
impinge on his self-image, omnipotence, judgment, omniscience,
skills, capabilities, professional record, or even omnipresence. Bad
sentences start with: "I think you overlooked ... made a mistake here
... you don't know ... do you know ... you were not here yesterday so
... you cannot ... you should ... (perceived as rude imposition,
narcissists react very badly to restrictions placed on their freedom)
... I (never mention the fact that you are a separate, independent
entity, narcissists regard others as extensions of their selves,
their internalization processes were screwed up and they did not
differentiate properly) ..."
* You get the gist of it.
* * * * *
Not much more to say, really...
Peace
Kevin Filan
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David Ritter
Royster, you have shown grand character and have proven yourself to be
someone to regaurd. I must say I am impressed!
Wish you the Best,
David Ritter
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
Latzoni" <latz...@yahoo.com> writes:
>> Royster, you apologized a while ago, and I consider anything
>> negative you wrote, long forgotten.
>
>From: http://samvak.tripod.com/npdtips.html , a page dedicated to
>Narcissistic Personality Disorder
You think Royster is "narcissistic"? Or you think I am, which one?
>FIVE DON'T DO'S
>How to Avoid the Wrath of the Narcissist
>* Never disagree with the narcissist or contradict him
>* Never offer him any intimacy
>* Look awed by whatever attribute matters to him (for instance: by
>his professional achievements or by his good looks, or by his success
>with women and so on)
>* Never remind him of life out there and if you do, connect it
>somehow to his sense of grandiosity
>* Do not make any comment, which might directly or indirectly
>impinge on his self-image...
>Not much more to say, really...
That's true, you have described Mark Alexander "Aboudja" Moellendorf to a "T".
Most of it fits Dunni pretty well, too - the "vision of love", the "captivating
display of grace", who imagines that "men white, black, Haitian and otherwise,
gay, straight, and in the middle" think she is "a WOMAN of whom they can
adore."
ROTFLMAO!
I hope you all keep it up, I am having a real good laugh! And if you really
want to make my day, if you would like us *all* to have a good laugh, just let
me see Mark Alexander "Aboudja" Moellendorf and Jennifer Clarissa Dunlap
"Dunni" Thompson give me permission to reveal the REAL TRUTH, and publish all
those emails and Instant Message logs.
Teee heee!
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
<mrha...@excite.SPAMBGONE.com> writes:
>Seems pretty interesting that LOTS of people seem to keep making many
>of the SAME "faceless accusations."
Lots of screen names, anyhow. Will you give me permission to digitize the
video of your lave tet? It will prove who is lying.
>David: you read the excerpts from Regina Scott's webpage? Racine
>took several thousand dollars from this woman, and told her to lie to
>her legal guardians (not to mention her parole officer) so that she
>could give Racine money. Racine has admitted to this
What a lie. Look, I have told you to stop ripping and tearing at Mambo Regina.
How can you be so heartless as to keep aggravating a mentally ill woman's
misery?
> I note that not ONE of her other initiates have
>stepped forth to defend her on her abuse of Regina Scott's illness.
Kevin, I have told my happy, positive, productive initiates to stay out of
this. I am the head of the household, and they respect my instructions.
>Racine has been pretty quick to throw her own "faceless allegations"
>about. You may want to check out some of the things she had to say
>about Houngan Danise David, not to mention her never ending rants
>about anal rape and pornography obsessions.
I have posted, right here on this forum, excerpts from YOUR post threatening a
woman with anal rape. And if I am given permission to publish emails and
Instant Message logs, I will be very happy to put a very detailed "face" on my
allegations, which are truthful and accurate. THAT IS WHY THEY DON'T WANT ME
TO PUBLISH THOSE EMAILS, duh.
Now, I'll tell you something. We haven't met face to face, but based on my
telephone conversations with David, he seems like a very nice person. We've
been emailing for years, I've done his met tet reading, and I find him to be an
appealing initiation candidate. I suppose that makes you jealous, desperate as
you are for genuine friendship.
Mike Trebilcock
-m
Kevin Filan
Hash: SHA1
"Mambo Racine Sans Bout, the woman who took several thousand dollars
from Laurence Fishburne's Stalker" <raci...@aol.com> wrote in
message news:20020608235421...@mb-fw.aol.com...
> In article <PVvM8.3622$k85....@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
>
> >Not much more to say, really...
>
> That's true, you have described Mark Alexander "Aboudja"
> Moellendorf to a "T".
http://www.eddylaw.com/vol2_no1_art4.htm
Just as an active alcoholic or addict blames others for their
substance abuse, those with personality disorders are often
preoccupied with other people's behavior while avoiding any
examination of their own behavior. Just as a movie projector throws a
large image on a screen from a hidden booth, those with personality
disorders project their internal conflicts onto their daily
interactions -- usually without knowing it. All the world is a stage
- -- including court.
It is not uncommon in family court declarations for one with a
personality disorder to claim the other party has characteristics
which are really their own ("he's manipulative and falsely charming"
or "she's hiding information and delaying the process"), and do not
fit the other party. Spousal abusers claim the other is being
abusive. Liars claim the other is lying. (One man who knew he was
diagnosed with a Narcissistic Personality Disorder claimed his wife
also had an NPD simply because she liked to shop.)
* * * * *
http://www.mhsource.com/pt/p950216.html
The clinical study of patients with narcissistic personality disorder
regularly reveals both unconscious and conscious envy as a major
affective expression of aggression. As we move from the better
functioning narcissistic pathology to severe narcissistic personality
disorders with overt borderline functioning, that is, with
generalized lack of impulse control, of anxiety tolerance and of
sublimatory channeling, the intensity of aggression mounts, reaching
a maximum in the syndrome of malignant narcissism. At times, the
intensity of hatred is such that it results in a primitive effort of
denial of hatred by means of the destruction of all awareness of the
affect, a transformation of aggressive affects into action or acting
out; in addition to defending against the subjective awareness of the
affect, the action obliterates ordinary cognitive functioning. These
developments characterize the syndrome that Bion (1957) described as
constituted by arrogance, curiosity and pseudo stupidity: here envy
and hatred become almost indistinguishable.
Most patients with severe histrionic, hysteroid or borderline
personality disorder, and with severe self-destructive,
self-mutilating, suicidal, and/or antisocial trends always also
evince strong elements of envy within the context of intense
activation of hatred. On the other hand, what might be called the
"purest" manifestation of hatred-with relative absence of envy per
se-may be seen in patients who were physically traumatized or victims
of sexual abuse or incest.
* * * * *
Anybody who does a search on raci...@aol.com & the words "Aboudja"
and/or "Dunni" should be able to figure out what's going on quickly
enough.
David, Ray: is Racine's behavior on this forum representative of the
behavior you expect from a spiritual leader?
Peace
Kevin Filan
>
>
> Most of it fits Dunni pretty well, too - the "vision of love", the
> "captivating display of grace", who imagines that "men white,
> black, Haitian and otherwise, gay, straight, and in the middle"
> think she is "a WOMAN of whom they can adore."
>
> ROTFLMAO!
>
> I hope you all keep it up, I am having a real good laugh! And if
> you really want to make my day, if you would like us *all* to have
> a good laugh, just let me see Mark Alexander "Aboudja" Moellendorf
> and Jennifer Clarissa Dunlap "Dunni" Thompson give me permission to
> reveal the REAL TRUTH, and publish all those emails and Instant
> Message logs.
>
> Teee heee!
>
> Peace and love,
>
> Bon Mambo Racine Sans Bout Sa Te La Daginen
>
> "Se bon ki ra" - Good is rare
> Haitian Proverb
>
> The VODOU Page - http://members.aol.com/racine125/index.html
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Royster
Absolutely, I wish you the best as well.
Take Care,
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
Filan" <mrha...@excite.SPAMBGONE.com> writes:
>Just as an active alcoholic or addict blames others for their
>substance abuse, those with personality disorders are often
>preoccupied with other people's behavior
Right - just like you are preoccupied with ME! LOL!
Ray
rat's behind. Since I moved out of my hometown before my first book
was ever published. Oh yes I did have clientele there while the book
was being written. And BTW, I would not ask anyone who knows me to
post here on my behalf in an effert to change your opinion. I have too
much respect for them to submit them to your foolishness.
And by the way when I made that statement that my godparents were
scared of Vodou, Houngans and Mambos it was in no reference to you as
you privately e-mailed me asking if this was some sort of a threat
against you. How paranoid and insecure can you be? I have to wonder.
As far as diviner priest is concerned. Any neo-pagan, Druid, etc. who
can master geomancy and learn how to apply it to the pantheon of any
culture, I would have to term a diviner priest. Afterall, in doing so
one does not have to use the system of divination to PROMOTE Santeria
or Lukumi (whatever you want to call it) as it is being done by its
own priesthood. I feel it could be applied to any religion and any
pantheon.
You say that you are Lukumi, fine. Well if you did not know already
that Mambo Racine is a Mambo of Haitian Vodou a completely different
religious system from you. What does that mean? whatever she does is
NOT your business, NOT your
concern. Whether you like her or not is *IRREVELENT*.
Sincerely
Ray
Sean Williams <nos...@newsranger.com> wrote in message news:<j5%L8.21450$15....@www.newsranger.com>...
> In article <d1e6a33c.02060...@posting.google.com>, Ray says...
> >For one thing All Saints Chapel of Faith was never in Houma.
>
> No,it was in Baton Rouge. But you claim to have done "work" in
> your reported "Home Town" of Houma.
>
> J'ai la famille dans Houma et personne se souvient de vous faire n'importe
> quel travail de racine là-bas.
>
> >I do not claim to be a graduate from the Gardnerian school of wicca as
> >there is no such thing to my knowledge, I am a graduate of the
> >Seax-Wica Seminary founded by Raymond Buckland himself.
>
> I do apologize,I always seem to confuse these two mediocre Warlocks!
> Thanks for the clarification though.
>
>
>
> >There is a difference here. If you actually read page 215 it will say Seax-Wica
> >Seminary in my Saint book. NOT GARDNERIAN. Yah!
>
> Again,duly noted. Yet I never bought your book and ***Je le plus certainement
> *pas* le garde vers comme une espèce de ref. le manuel, si j'ai fait!***
>
> I am fond of "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance" though!
>
>
> >I spent 6 to 8 years of my life envolved in Santeria. My godparents
> >lived in Kenner, La. (and no they did not have a restaurant) in which
> >I did receive the elekes, warriors (Ellegua,Ogoun Ochosi, and Osun),
> >Obatala, Yemaya, Ochun, Chango, Olokun. According to my godparents I
> >had already received half of the asientoin this house of ocha. I chose
> >NOT to become a Santero. And you know what? my godparents were scared
> >of Vodou, Hougans, and Mambos. Go figure!!!
>
> Okay...so you are Media Asiento,in the proper meaning. Not claiming to be,
> based on having received the Illekes,Elegua and Warrior's only,like some
> people mistakenly assert.
>
> But you orginally said:"And yes, I consider my self a diviner priest
> and anyone that I teach to become a Spiritist having been taught the
> dillogún by Omo Ellegua Rigoberto Chafre Escobar who is also cut in Palo.
> Who I also sponsored to gain citizenship status when he came to the US
> from Camaguey, Cuba."
>
> For one,the Palo and citizenship ref.'s,threw me off some. I was not quite
> sure what they have to do with the subject at hand and I am still not
> sure........
>
> It came across to me,that you were saying that you were taught the
> Dillogun by Omo Ellegua Rigoberto Chafre Escobar and in turn, were
> teaching others Dillogun.
>
> Now if I mis-construed something,it wasnt my fault for doing so. I was
> merely asking you a question based off of your statement,as it appeared!
> You made no mention of "Geomancy",African or otherwise originally!
>
> Do yourself a favor and re-read that statement. If I or anyone else, are in
> a box,youre putting "us" in it!
>
> BTW: I dont know if word has gotten to PA. yet,but you might want to remove
> "VOUS LES GENS" from your vocabulary. It isnt considered Pollitically Correct
> in this day and age.
>
> >Rigoberto Chafre Escobar is an "Omo Ellegua". This means that he made
> >saint in Ellegua. Who was my elder in ocha.
>
> Ray, I am aware what Omo,Olo,Oni, etc. denote.
>
> ***il n'y a pas de Saint fait***! Le Dogme catholique n'a pas d'endroit dans le
> "Igbodu". Cela ni ici ni là-bas vraiment....mia culpa!
>
>
> >The Spiritism that I practice and teach is based on the writings of Allan >Kardec aka Kardecism. Of which the neo-pagan/wiccan community in the US can >greatly benefit from its teachings.
>
> Yes... anyone involved in Lukumi will at one time or another,be exposed
> to Kardecism. The philosophy is a beautiful one! Good point.
>
>
> >As far as the shells readings are concerned, these same 16 pattens are
> >also used in a *European* system of divination called *geomancy*,
> >hence *Latin* names as given in my Saint book. Now this may come as a
> >rude awakening to you, but, neither Santeria nor Lukumi hold the
> >*monopoly* on geomancy. It is a system of divination originating in
> >Arabia and spread to both Europe and Africa. So you know what? you
> >people need to get out of your box.
>
> No rude awakening here Ray. I have brushed up on my "divinatory history"
> throughout various cultures.Furthermore,I never suggested nor implied
> Santeria/Lukumi held a monopoly on anything. Where did you get that from?
>
>
> >For one thing I do not give any interpretations in my Saint book to the 16 geometric patterns listed, therefore, you have no clue, idea, nor concept as to what intrepretation I use for any of these 16 patterns.
>
>
> Avec tout respect dû, mon ami:
> I never claimed to have. How I would understand something that you***concocté de
> l'air mince***, is beyond me.
>
>
> >You say you studyed the rosy cross? well go buy yourself a copy of the Complete
> >Golden Dawn System of Magic by Isreal Regarde and you will see the
> >same 16 geometric patterns also used in the African system or any
> >other book on GEOMANCY for that matter.
>
> Maybe 15 or 16 years ago.....but not today.
>
> Whats that saying...I put away my toys,when I became a man,
> or something like that? I dont dabble in Magick anymore.
>
> I see no value in following the same rocky path,started by a herion addict.
> Most of us know where it lead Mr. Crowely...right?
>
> But then again he was one of the "original spokesman" for eclectic practices,
> so I see where youre coming from.
>
>
> >Well I can tell you that I have blended interpretations from both EUROPE and >AFRICA for each of the 16 patterns taking the best of both worlds. And you know what? it makes no difference what I use to get the patterns, dots, four cowries or even 16, it is still just as much a EUROPEAN system as it is AFRICAN.
>
> Ray,with all due respect, keep the "monopoly" on this esoteric information... I
> dont want it. If it works for you,thats grand! I am not and have not,"knocked
> it" and I am not asking to "try it" either!
>
>
>
> >On this issue you can pound sand.<
>
> Ahem...Luz y progresso to you too,my friend!
>
> "Merry parting from Rev. Ray,to never meet again" =o)
> Sean
Sean Williams
>rat's behind.
How....true (?).....I think <scratching head>. I would say a mommy and
daddy rat are the ones that make rat behinds! Good point Reverend!
>Since I moved out of my hometown before my first book
>was ever published. Oh yes I did have clientele there while the book
>was being written. And BTW, I would not ask anyone who knows me to
>post here on my behalf in an effert to change your opinion. I have too
>much respect for them to submit them to your foolishness.
Yes,I remember the clientele you spoke of in your book. I wouldnt expect
them to have but two teeth,an outhouse and a party line....I wouldnt foresee
these folks as having a computer anyhow! THANK GOD!
>And by the way when I made that statement that my godparents were
>scared of Vodou, Houngans and Mambos it was in no reference to you as
>you privately e-mailed me asking if this was some sort of a threat
>against you. How paranoid and insecure can you be? I have to wonder.
Okay,unlike you,what is private.. I keep as such! So I will not comment
on the above,except to say that you were talking about "GRAVES"!
Specifically *MINE*! And I fully stand by my reply to you in that regard!
Perhaps I mis-construed something...it isnt like you are the most straight
talk-n-est person there is Ray!
>As far as diviner priest is concerned. Any neo-pagan, Druid, etc. who
>can master geomancy and learn how to apply it to the pantheon of any
>culture, I would have to term a diviner priest. Afterall, in doing so
>one does not have to use the system of divination to PROMOTE Santeria
>or Lukumi (whatever you want to call it) as it is being done by its
>own priesthood. I feel it could be applied to any religion and any
>pantheon.
Okay....weve been here before havent we? <smile>---trying to be nice!
>You say that you are Lukumi, fine. Well if you did not know already
>that Mambo Racine is a Mambo of Haitian Vodou a completely different
>religious system from you. What does that mean? whatever she does is
>NOT your business, NOT your
>concern. Whether you like her or not is *IRREVELENT*.
"WHEW....almost stepped into some scat! NOT GOING THERE!<smile>
But youre right...it is *I-R-R-E-L-E-V-A-N-T* to say the least!
"Merry Parting A-G-A-I-N!"
Sean
Kevin Filan
"Ray" <rayowl...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:d1e6a33c.02060...@posting.google.com...
> You say that you are Lukumi, fine. Well if you did not know already
> that Mambo Racine is a Mambo of Haitian Vodou a completely different
> religious system from you. What does that mean? whatever she does is
> NOT your business, NOT your
> concern. Whether you like her or not is *IRREVELENT*.
Your prospective "Godmother" stole several thousand dollars from a mentally
ill woman in exchange for a bogus "Kanzo;" she also attacked one of her
candidates in August 1999 with a stick, and was thrown out of her second
initiatory house for stealing from her Papa Kanzo, Houngan Danise David.
(Soutini can give you some details about why Racine was thrown out of Luc
Gedeon's house, her first initiatory house, if you actually want to check
your Mambo's references with a Haitian).
Whether or not you like Racine is irrelevant; whether or not Racine is a
thief, a criminal and a fraud is not.
Does Racine's behavior on this list make you proud to call her your Mama
Kanzo? I note that you enjoy slinging mud at Sean, but neither you nor
David Ritter will answer that question.
Peace
Kevin Filan
Ray
slinging at me. And you tried to join in as his side kick. To answer
your question..I have no desire to want to know what would be out in
your head, its NOT my business,its NOT my concern. Even though you
tried to be cute.
The fact that Sean publicly apologized to me and then turned around
e-mailing me privately with 5 pages of gossip, slander, etc. is a
clear indication to me that he and probably you are being motivated by
a "spirit" of *HATE*. I am not impressed with either of you.
Well let me tell you about Santeria uh Lucumi. Since I will not give
any names, I cannot be accused of slandering or maligning anyone but
will speak of a basic general practice. Santeros have a reputation of
being thieves, ripping off and exploiting their own godchildren.
Their logic is to charge as much money as you think you can get out of
the person. Even Santeros bad mouth other Santeros claiming, one
accusing the other of not doing the work correctly and charging
outrageous prices. To a Santero their godchildren are nothing more
than a client. And very rarely does a Santero consider a godchild as
"family". Oh yes, they say they love their godchildren, because their
godchildren are supporting them.
Well you know what? Louisiana's history is in Vodou, not the recent
Santeria implant.
To quote Raul Canizares in his book "Walking With the Night: the
Afro-Cuban World of Santeria"...page 112, "If you want to feel good,
you worship the
orishas. If you want something done, you go to a palero". Even
Santeros enlist the aid of a palero when they need magic or work done
for themselves.
I have even had a Babalawo call me up in Louisiana saying, "Ray! now
that I am a Babalawo I can come down to Louisiana and get a lot of
godchildren and make Elleguas for them!" And you know what? he did
not get one person from me to join his ile. And before he became a
Babalawo, I was reading the shells for him and doing spiritual work.
Go figure?
"Kevin Filan" <mrha...@excite.SPAMBGONE.com> wrote in message news:<Wv%M8.6673$Pv2...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
Houngan Aboudja
of Luc
Gedeon's house, her first initiatory house, if you actually want to
check
your Mambo's references with a Haitian).<<<
Kevin,
For the record, Manbo Soutini has asked, right here on this forum... &
recently, not to have her name drug into this mess. If she chooses to
comment, let her do so.... but let us respect her request please.
However, to shift the subject slightly, there is truth in what you say
Kevin, & she is not the first Haitian.... much less manbo or houngan
with the resources to find the truth on our *friend*... & to comment
about it. In '99, the houngan who is now in charge of the house of Luc
Gedeon (his successor) denied that our *friend* ever took asogwe in
'90 & further stated she was banned from the house for a whole laundry
list of offenses, most of which had to do with her mental status. This
is why she did not... COULD not... return to her root house to hold
kanzo ceremonies... though she tried certainly. Our *friend* was
expelled from her root house. She then spent the next "X" years
wondering through Haiti trying to find an houngan or manbo to work
with her.
Those are the facts & can be discovered by any & all with the
resources to do so. Unfortunately, our *friend* knows that most people
do not have said resources... & depends upon that to maintain her
"so-called" standing with all these New Age wanna-be's here on the
Net. Like her, they will never find Ginea... at least not until they
wake up... if ever. Oh well, good for them. That will keep them out
from under foot...
Regards,
Houngan Aboudja
David Ritter
> Your prospective "Godmother" stole several thousand dollars from a mentally
> ill woman in exchange for a bogus "Kanzo;" she also attacked one of her
> candidates in August 1999 with a stick, and was thrown out of her second
> initiatory house for stealing from her Papa Kanzo, Houngan Danise David.
> (Soutini can give you some details about why Racine was thrown out of Luc
> Gedeon's house, her first initiatory house, if you actually want to check
> your Mambo's references with a Haitian).
You have a habit of ignoring points already made don't you? Mambo
Racine's reputation has already been "checked" by my wife with Haitian
poeple (yes, poeple, plural) and belive me if my wife had found
something bad she would have told me about it a long time ago.
Aparantly there are those in Haiti who hold a much much different veiw
than the one you would have everyone to belive.
> Whether or not you like Racine is irrelevant; whether or not Racine is a
> thief, a criminal and a fraud is not.
Here's one to consider, what's your motivation in slandering her like
you do?
> Does Racine's behavior on this list make you proud to call her your Mama
> Kanzo? I note that you enjoy slinging mud at Sean, but neither you nor
> David Ritter will answer that question.
Surprize!
I fail to see why her defending herself agianst slander and lies would
be considered bad behaviour. She has every right to answer! I suppose
you would prefer that poeple can spread slander and lies while the
victims of said slander never say a word in their defense? This is
wrong. Everyone has a right to defend themselves whether you want them
to do so or not!
Sean Williams
>
>Whoa...Kevin! First of all it was Sean mon neg' who started mug
>slinging at me. And you tried to join in as his side kick.
For the record,it was in fact me that started the "MUG(?)" slinging,
as he calls it,toward Ray. I do not think however,that Kevin has
aligned himself as my sidekick though!
I feel Kevin's experience in Haiti about a certain individual, contains
many more kernals of truth than the nameless party in questions account
of events.
>To answer your question..I have no desire to want to know what would be out in
>your head, its NOT my business,its NOT my concern.
Theres that "straight talk-n-est thing" I was refering to earlier.
>The fact that Sean publicly apologized to me and then turned around
>e-mailing me privately with 5 pages of gossip, slander, etc. is a
>clear indication to me that he and probably you are being motivated by
>a "spirit" of *HATE*. I am not impressed with either of you.
Ray, I did indeed publically apologize to you. I felt it was the least I
could do. I also want you to know that I have no desire to bad mouth you
in a public forum. I am sure that you have much to contribute here,so I
ask you not to let my past bad behavior keep you from participating in
discussion.
I also privately emailed you,the post that I made some time ago.
Wherein, I stated that I was going to be as civil and polite as possible
to you. I thought I may have removed any desire for you to re-visted
ARO and the post went un-answered for awhile. So I emailed it to you!
As for me emailing you five pages worth of gossip and slander.....
Come on Ray,enough of the bull shit... I do *NOT* have the attention
span concerning this subject to write five pages of crap,in one sitting!
But again...what is private,(I guess unlike you),I keep as such!
>Well let me tell you about Santeria uh Lucumi. Since I will not give
>any names, I cannot be accused of slandering or maligning anyone but
>will speak of a basic general practice. Santeros have a reputation of
>being thieves, ripping off and exploiting their own godchildren.
>Their logic is to charge as much money as you think you can get out of
>the person. Even Santeros bad mouth other Santeros claiming, one
>accusing the other of not doing the work correctly and charging
>outrageous prices. To a Santero their godchildren are nothing more
>than a client. And very rarely does a Santero consider a godchild as
>"family". Oh yes, they say they love their godchildren, because their
>godchildren are supporting them.
This is excactly the point many are trying to make in regards to
some select members of Vodou clergy!
I am sorry to hear that this happened to you! There are bad apples
in all religions! Dont put yourself in the starring role of a sequel!
>Well you know what? Louisiana's history is in Vodou, not the recent
>Santeria implant.<
What most people call Vodou in Louisiana,wouldnt be called so elsewhere
in the world! Louisiana is also steeped in a history of Catholocism,
Jesuits and Pentecostals etc etc etc! So whats your point?
>To quote Raul Canizares in his book "Walking With the Night: the
>Afro-Cuban World of Santeria"...page 112, "If you want to feel good,
>you worship the
>orishas. If you want something done, you go to a palero". Even
>Santeros enlist the aid of a palero when they need magic or work done
>for themselves.
Baba Raul Canizares also has proclaimed himself the direct fleshly
embodiment of Obatala on earth! LOL! So,he is a less than credible
source for information. Perhaps Baba Raul needed the aid of a Palero
to make things happen,but to proclaim that all Olorisha/Santero/a's
need one is ludicrous!
Palo is a complete,whole and seperate religion unto itself!
Furthermeore,Palero/a's can indeed do some miraculous things
with their religion! This is no way indicates that the Orisha
are inferior or less miraculous!
>I have even had a Babalawo call me up in Louisiana saying, "Ray! now
>that I am a Babalawo I can come down to Louisiana and get a lot of
>godchildren and make Elleguas for them!" And you know what? he did
>not get one person from me to join his ile. And before he became a
>Babalawo, I was reading the shells for him and doing spiritual work.
>Go figure?
Yeah....Go figure!
Again,Take care of yourself Ray,I am now returning to Fantasy Island!
Sean
David Ritter
> I am curious to know how you know the accusations of one party are *lies*
> while the accusations of the other party are not. Have you tried to contact
> any of the other people mentioned as former initiates in order to get
> feedback from them as part of your research prior to commiting to the trip
> with Mambo Racine?
When I first started to see all of these accusations I didn't take
sides, I just sat back and watched. Those making accusations against
Mambo Racine have made alot of errors, they gave themselves away. They
will probably cotinue to do so. Royster already commented on one such
error. And yes, I have been in contact with a few initiates. Good
reports of Lave Tet participants abound. Former initiates? Are you
refering to those who broke their Sacred vows, and as a result had
their Beads taken away? Why would anyone trust such a person?
> It seems to me that all parties would do well to keep the names of other
> people out of their little rants. Yet, I find it interesting that you seem
> to have no problem with Mambo Racine spouting off accusations that others
> say are lies while accusing the others of some great evil.
Like I said before, (why do I have a feeling I'm going to have to say
that alot) Those making the accusations against Mambo Racine give
themselves away. If one just watches long enough the truth reveals
itself. Or do what my wife did and just ask outside of the internet.
> Truth be told, none of us can be certain what happened to whom when unless,
> of course, we were present for all or part of these events.
Were you present? There are those who will use many different names
online are you one of them? If so it would explain your statment
above. You would want everyone to forget reason and just believe
whatever so and so sais, even when it's not hard to figure out realy.
Wish you the Best,
David Ritter
>
> "David Ritter" <ritte...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:fb04d286.02060...@posting.google.com...
> > Mike <sp...@mikerock.dreamhost.com> wrote in message
> news:<B9250074.1F4F3%sp...@mikerock.dreamhost.com>...
> > > umm, if i might have a word in here, these folks that Houngan Aboudja
> > > associates with and shares opinions with are not the least bit
> anonymous..
> > > there is a whole book about at least one person, who stayed at the house
> > > last fall while out there lecturing at a Baton Rouge college. the nyc
> vodou
> > > community seems pretty tight knit from what i gather. but neither i nor
> > > anyone else has permission to throw anybody's name around. that is poor
> > > manners.
> > >
> > > if you have any background in magic, dunno if you do, im sure you would
> > > understand the importance of a name.
> >
> > My entire point in the matter was that his accusations were without
> > merit. He keeps repeating those faceless accusations as though they
> > proved something. They don't. I have proof to the contrary. He's lying
> > and thinks he can get away with it. Maybe he thinks we are all stupid
> > and won't try to find out for ourselves.
> >
> > > but reputation is neither here nor there on either side.. after all,
> Jesus
> > > himself had a "bad reputation". it depends on whose approbation you are
> > > seeking. people's? or God's?
> >
> > Hmmm... I think that because you want God's approbation doesn't mean
> > that you want your name dragged through the mud, or shouldn't
> > challenge lies about you, or in this case someone elses.
> >
> > > To each their own. There is nothing wrong with that. Not everyone is
> > > guaranteed to get along in this world. Civility tho at least helps
> reduce
> > > the friction a bit.
> >
> > Poeple sometimes use lies to hurt other poeple. When that happens,
> > Should one just sit back and let damage be done? Do you know that
> > poeple just learning and starting are being confused by all this? They
> > are the ones who will be hurt most, to not say a word or challenge
> > slander can be interprted as one admitting that the slander is true.
> > I've seen this before.
> >
> > > It is a [pretty transparent] reference to Llewellyn-flavored Wicca.
> >
> > Well, thanks for the info. I'm not Wiccan of any flavor, but I
> > certainly don't have a problem with Wicca. I wounder if Hounan Aboudja
> > Does?
> >
> > > I sincerely hope you have a productive time in the djevo.. may you find
> your
> > > destiny therein.
> >
> >
> > Wish you thhe Best,
> > David Ritter
Omo Oshun
living, her godmother works for a living, and I work for a living. We
live in normal middle class homes, and drive normal middle class cars.
And you know what? Most other people I know in this religion are
exactly the same way, or live at a lower standard of living. They work
hard at thier jobs, for Orisha, and for thier religous family. This is
not just in my little neck of the woods because I have met wonderfull
people of good character from all over the U.S and latin america. Yes
there are frauds and con artists out there, and it is not hard to find
one. However, they are certainly not in the majority. And that is the
case with many other religions
I am sorry that you have had such a negative experience, and you are
certainly not the only one. However you must realize that your
experience is not the sum total of all experiences. For every fraud
and con artists there are many other legit priests.
rayowl...@aol.com (Ray) wrote in message news:<d1e6a33c.02061...@posting.google.com>...
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
<mrha...@excite.SPAMBGONE.com> writes:
>Your prospective "Godmother" stole several thousand dollars from a mentally
>ill woman in exchange for a bogus "Kanzo;"
You are a liar. Mambo Regina paid for a kanzo and she got a kanzo. Kanzos at
the Roots Without End Society are NOT "bogus", in fact we are real sticklers
for correctness, and we are assisted by Haitian Houngans and Mambos to make
certain of it.
> she also attacked one of her
>candidates in August 1999 with a stick
You are a liar. People who physically attack other people in Haiti go to
prison, just like in the USA. I've never been arrested anywhere, not in the
States, not in Haiti, because I have never committed an act of violence against
anyone.
>and was thrown out of her second
>initiatory house for stealing from her Papa Kanzo, Houngan Danise David.
You are a liar. I stole nothing from Houngan Danise, and until now he keeps
forlornly offering me his peristyle to do kanzos.
>(Soutini can give you some details about why Racine was thrown out of Luc
>Gedeon's house, her first initiatory house, if you actually want to check
>your Mambo's references with a Haitian).
You are a liar. I was on very good terms with Houngan Luc until his death, he
gave me a correct kanzo, he taught me a great deal. His photo is on The VODOU
Page, as is his biography and the "biography" of one of his lwa. I loved
Houngan Luc like a father, you should be ashamed of yourself.
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
<nos...@newsranger.com> writes:
>I do not think however,that Kevin has
>aligned himself as my sidekick though!
It sure looks that way to me.
>I feel Kevin's experience in Haiti about a certain individual, contains
>many more kernals of truth
K-e-r-n-e-l-s. You have just proved Ray's point about you and Kevin - you were
not in Haiti, you know very little about Vodou, and you have never met me, yet
you choose to repeat Kevin's lies as if you had personal knowledge of the
matter.
Ray wrote:
>>The fact that Sean publicly apologized to me and then turned around
>>e-mailing me privately with 5 pages of gossip, slander, etc. is a
>>clear indication to me that he and probably you are being motivated by
>>a "spirit" of *HATE*.
I think Ray is right, this is a guy who extends the hand of peace so he can
sneak around behind you and use the other hand to stab you in the back.
Sean, I don't want you to shut up, but I really wish you would grow up.
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
(Houngan Aboudja) writes:
>In '99, the houngan who is now in charge of the house of Luc
>Gedeon (his successor) denied that our *friend* ever took asogwe in
>'90 & further stated she was banned from the house for a whole laundry
>list of offenses, most of which had to do with her mental status.
What a bunch of crap.
First of all, Luc Gedeon's house disbanded upon his death, and many of the
hounsis converted to Protestantism in an effort to achieve the same protection
and economic support that a charismatic individual like Houngan Luc was able to
provide.
Secondly, I was never "banned" from his house, we enjoyed very good relations
until his death. His photograph is on the home page of The VODOU Page, as well
as his biography and the "biography" of one of his lwa.
>This
>is why she did not... COULD not... return to her root house to hold
>kanzo ceremonies...
No, the reason why is because Houngan Luc died in 1994, and I did my first
kanzo in 1999! Duh.
> She then spent the next "X" years
>wondering through Haiti trying to find an houngan or manbo to work
>with her.
You mean w-a-n-d-e-r-i-n-g, dolt. From my first kanzo until 1999 I spent time
in Port-au-Prince, the Artibonite, Jacmel, Cap Haitien, and other places,
learning all I could from Houngans, Mambos, Makaya Bokors, medsen fey (leaf
doctors) and other traditional practitioners. It never occurred to me to kanzo
people, I wasn't thinking about that, I was thinking about working in the area
of human rights, and as an educator. I started doing kanzos because so many
people told me stories of being charged big money for phoney services, and
asked me to help them get correct ceremonies. When I began to do kanzos, I
made sure that I guaranteed correctness and authenticity by working with a
Haitian Houngan, instead of going it alone. You benefitted from that decision
- you contacted me, you sent me the payment I requested, I met you at the
airport, I housed and fed you, I taught you dances and songs and invocations
and vevers, and finally Houngan Danise and I became your papa kanzo and mama
kanzo, which is why you can call yourself a Houngan today.
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
ritte...@hotmail.com (David Ritter) writes:
>You have a habit of ignoring points already made don't you? Mambo
>Racine's reputation has already been "checked" by my wife with Haitian
>poeple (yes, poeple, plural) and belive me if my wife had found
>something bad she would have told me about it a long time ago.
>Aparantly there are those in Haiti who hold a much much different veiw
>than the one you would have everyone to belive.
David, Kevin isn't interested in the truth! Kevin is a sick, sick man.
>Here's one to consider, what's your motivation in slandering her like
>you do?
I'll tell you what his motivations are:
1) His conscience is reproaching him because following his lave tet, he could
have opened a new chapter in his life, he could have cleaned himself up
completely and gotten out of bondage to pornography and Satanism, he could have
climbed out of the cesspool of perversion in which he was living. But he
didn't, and he knows I know it, so to stifle his conscience he deludes himself
that I am somehow responsible for his failure and the filth in which he still
lives.
2) He is desperate for recognition and friendship, and he gets tiny dollops of
these things from people like Mark Alexander "Aboudja" Moellendorf and his
cronies with every fresh lie he tells about me.
>I fail to see why her defending herself agianst slander and lies would
>be considered bad behaviour. She has every right to answer! I suppose
>you would prefer that poeple can spread slander and lies while the
>victims of said slander never say a word in their defense?
Of COURSE that is what he would prefer!
(giggle)
who'syamama
I asked a question of you, which you politely answered, for which I thank
you. I clearly stated that those of us who were not there have no way of
knowing exactly what happened to whom when. However, I have been watching
this silliness between the said parties for almost two years now and on more
than one occasion have checked the threads to see who exactly began the
battles. Almost invariably it has been Mambo Racine throwing the first
punch. I hardly call that being attacked by *competitors*. Coppin' a 'tude
with someone simply for asking you the question leads me to feel that you
are desperate to prove others wrong about your prospective mambo in an
effort to justify your upcoming trip. If I am wrong, forgive me for this
statement. I must call them as I see them, as I am sure you would as well.
Believe me when I say that I have no interest in dissuading you or anyone
else from going to Haiti or anywhere else with Mambo Racine or anyone else.
I am, however, interested in a fair assessment of the situation -- as fair
as can be under the circumstances. When I read recent posts by Mambo
Racine, I see a woman who is attacking first, making false statements about
a neighborhood in a city that I have grown to love in an attempt to destroy
someone else's business prospects, and is generally not displaying behavior
that I consider to be becoming of a religious leader. It is a shame,
really, considering that she has an extensive presence on the Internet and
is in such a good position to represent Haitian Vodou as a religion of
beauty to a world that often misunderstands the ATRs.
"David Ritter" <ritte...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fb04d286.02061...@posting.google.com...
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
<who'sya...@NOSPAM.net> writes:
>Almost invariably it has been Mambo Racine throwing the first
>punch.
What a lie! Your screen-name alter-egos post nasty slander on forums I can't
access. I say what I have to say in response RIGHT HERE, where they can read
what I have to say.
Kevin Filan
Hash: SHA1
"David Ritter" <ritte...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fb04d286.0206...@posting.google.com...
> "Kevin Filan" <mrha...@excite.SPAMBGONE.com> wrote in message
> news:<Wv%M8.6673$Pv2...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
>
> > Your prospective "Godmother" stole several thousand dollars from
> > a mentally ill woman in exchange for a bogus "Kanzo;" she also
> > attacked one of her candidates in August 1999 with a stick, and
> > was thrown out of her second initiatory house for stealing from
> > her Papa Kanzo, Houngan Danise David. (Soutini can give you some
> > details about why Racine was thrown out of Luc Gedeon's house,
> > her first initiatory house, if you actually want to check your
> > Mambo's references with a Haitian).
>
> You have a habit of ignoring points already made don't you?
You have a habit of not answering points which have been raised.
You read those excerpts from Regina Scott's writing. In your
opinion, was she competent to make a business transaction involving
several thousand dollars? Do you think taking advantage of people
with paranoid schizophrenia is moral or ethical? Is this the kind of
behavior you expect (or will tolerate) from your Mama Kanzo?
There's no "slander" here. That writing -- writing from before and
after the time Racine took Regina Scott's money -- clearly shows
bizarre ideation, word salad, paranoid fantasies, and other hallmarks
of severe mental disturbance. And yet your Mama-to-Be was willing to
overlook her problems because she needed the money. This is evident
on its face, whether or not you like it or choose to respond to it.
> Mambo
> Racine's reputation has already been "checked" by my wife with
> Haitian poeple (yes, poeple, plural)
Here's a little clue for you: if your wife sent email to any of the
"Haitian Houngans and Mambos" whose webpages your Mambo-to-Be so
helpfully erects for her poor benighted assistants, she very likely
got glowing reports of Racine's competence, talent, devotion and
dedication. And if you believe them then you deserve the kanzo
you're about to buy.
> and belive me if my wife had found
> something bad she would have told me about it a long time ago.
> Aparantly there are those in Haiti who hold a much much different
> veiw than the one you would have everyone to belive.
The Haitians I've spoken to don't share your view, or the view of
your wife's Haitian friends. But, of course, you are free to justify
any sort of behavior you wish to justify.
> > Whether or not you like Racine is irrelevant; whether or not
> > Racine is a thief, a criminal and a fraud is not.
>
> Here's one to consider, what's your motivation in slandering her
> like you do?
What is your motivation for ignoring evidence which clearly suggests
Racine was guilty of gross irresponsibility at best and several
felonies at worst?
> Surprize!
> I fail to see why her defending herself agianst slander and lies
> would be considered bad behaviour. She has every right to answer! I
> suppose you would prefer that poeple can spread slander and lies
> while the victims of said slander never say a word in their
> defense? This is wrong. Everyone has a right to defend themselves
> whether you want them to do so or not!
So you have no problem with encouraging a mentally ill woman under
psychiatric care to travel to a foreign country, quit taking her
medication, and engage in physically and psychically arduous
ceremonies? You believe this is appropriate and responsible
behavior, and that Racine didn't take advantage of this woman for the
money?
> Wish you the Best,
Actually, you don't wish me the best. You wish that I would go away
and quit interfering with your dream of becoming a Genuine Bonafide
Houngan in Haitian Vodou. But that's fine. When you come back
you'll know exactly why Racine has made so many enemies. Those who
won't listen must feel and all that...
> David Ritter
Peace
Kevin Filan
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Sean Williams
says...
>K-e-r-n-e-l-s.
I want to thank you for your keen sense of observation and your tolerance
of my spelling errors.
I would have never guessed an all important Mambo like yourself,would
have time for that.
>I think Ray is right, this is a guy who extends the hand of peace so he can
>sneak around behind you and use the other hand to stab you in the back.
>
>Sean, I don't want you to shut up, but I really wish you would grow up.
I havent done any back stabbing! I have...gone against my word and directed a
post to you now....<cripes!> [This is the last,I hope!]
Kathy,I dont want you to shut up either. It would be a pleasant change
to see something from you other than "Kanzo Announcements",slanted articles,
notices of online Vodou ceremony in addition to pleas for $51.00 candle
readings. Not to mention your posts of a negative nature concerning your
competition.
And to think, this is coming from the lady that touts: "I write about Vodou,you
write about me!"
Yet goes on to make the below posts. NOT ONE, HAVING MUCH IF ANYTHING,
TO DO WITH VODOU! (I didnt see much "peace and love" in them either.)
Happy,successful,fulfilled and content.... ?????????????????? If you say so!
(_*_) smooches,
Sean
***********
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From: raci...@aol.com (Mambo Racine Sans Bout)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.orisha
Date: 11 Jun 2002 00:59:50 GMT
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From: raci...@aol.com (Mambo Racine Sans Bout)
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Date: 11 Jun 2002 00:34:24 GMT
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From: raci...@aol.com (Mambo Racine Sans Bout)
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From: raci...@aol.com (Mambo Racine Sans Bout)
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From: raci...@aol.com (Mambo Racine Sans Bout)
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who'syamama
Anyone checking this forum on the archives will see that I have never posted
any so called lies against you. I cannot speak to the issue of other
posters on other lists or forums. I did review some old posts indicating
that you, on more than one occasion, started some of the battles that rage
here.
Calling everyone an enemy does not make it so.
"Mambo Racine Sans Bout" <raci...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020610205950...@mb-fn.aol.com...
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
Filan" <mrha...@excite.SPAMBGONE.com> writes:
>You read those excerpts from Regina Scott's writing. In your
>opinion, was she competent to make a business transaction involving
>several thousand dollars?
Leave Mambo Regina alone!
Look, Kevin, you seem to think mentally ill people are excluded from Vodou
service. They aren't - even YOU got a lave tet.
Furthermore, when Regina's illness is in remission, whatever it is called, she
is cogent, lucid... I had no reason to believe that she was mentally ill before
she came to Haiti. She paid her money just like everyone else, she made her
preparations and bought her beads and had her reading, she didn't seem to have
any particular problem. I've said this enough times now - if anyone is
ignoring previously made statements it is you. Furthermore, you don't care one
good goddam about Mambo Regina as a person, all you care about is slandering
me.
>Do you think taking advantage of people
>with paranoid schizophrenia is moral or ethical?
No one "took advantage" of Mambo Regina. She paid for a kanzo at the rank of
sur point. She got a kanzo at the rank of sur point. She is now Mambo sur
point Ogoun. She learned her asson gestures better than some other people, in
fact. When she got home, some problems that she had started getting better for
a while - then, because she remained in the same environment that made her sick
in the first place, she got worse again. Big surprise.
> That writing -- writing from before and
>after the time Racine took Regina Scott's money -- clearly shows
>bizarre ideation, word salad, paranoid fantasies, and other hallmarks
>of severe mental disturbance.
You oughta know! And no one "took" any money from Mambo Regina, she *paid* for
a kanzo and she got a kanzo.
>And yet your Mama-to-Be was willing to
>overlook her problems because she needed the money.
I don't know what writing you are referring to - I hadn't seen it prior to the
kanzo and I haven't seen it yet, as a matter of fact. Kevin, we don't do
anything inauthentic in our house, and we are not going to be pushed into doing
anything wrong because we "need the money", we leave that for other people,
like Mark "Aboudja" Moellendorf who makes up bogus "sevis tets", totally
imaginary services that have never been performed in Haiti, because apparently
he "needs the money".
>> Mambo
>> Racine's reputation has already been "checked" by my wife with
>> Haitian poeple (yes, poeple, plural)
>
>Here's a little clue for you: if your wife sent email to any of the
>"Haitian Houngans and Mambos" whose webpages your Mambo-to-Be so
>helpfully erects for her poor benighted assistants, she very likely
>got glowing reports of Racine's competence, talent, devotion and
>dedication. And if you believe them then you deserve the kanzo
>you're about to buy.
How is it that every positive, happy person is a benighted dupe, and every
rule-breaking slander artist is a good source, in your eyes?
>> Here's one to consider, what's your motivation in slandering her
>> like you do?
>
>What is your motivation for ignoring evidence which clearly suggests
>Racine was guilty of gross irresponsibility at best and several
>felonies at worst?
You have a nerve. You threaten people online, in writing, with RAPE! Your
buddies set up fake charity scams to solicit contributions "for poor Haitians"
and then plan to pocket that money to pay for kanzo ceremonies! *I* am the one
who put a stop to that, and if I had permission to publish those Instant
Message logs I could prove it.
And don't worry, Kevin, once I get to Haiti I will crank up that Dazzle
mini-tower thingie, and create files, and then we will all see your lave tet,
okay?
>> I fail to see why her defending herself agianst slander and lies
>> would be considered bad behaviour. She has every right to answer! I
>> suppose you would prefer that poeple can spread slander and lies
>> while the victims of said slander never say a word in their
>> defense? This is wrong. Everyone has a right to defend themselves
>> whether you want them to do so or not!
>
>So you have no problem with encouraging a mentally ill woman under
>psychiatric care to travel to a foreign country
Do you think repeating lies makes them true?
>quit taking her
>medication
How could I tell her to quit taking her medication, when I didn't even know she
was taking any? You're nuts.
But just for the record, here is an excerpt of an email which every kanzo
candidate receives from me to help them prepare for the trip to Haiti:
"You probably should bring a little kit, with Neosporin and a few Band Aids and
some Tylenol. Those who are taking other medicines should bring them in
clearly labeled containers to avoid fruitless discussions with Customs
officials. Women should bring Tampax or pads or whatever if you will be
needing them, since the brand you prefer probably won't be available in
Jacmel."
> and engage in physically and psychically arduous
>ceremonies?
ALL kanzo candidates engage in physically and *spiritually* demanding
ceremonies. Do you think it's a Voodoo Vacation? It's a KANZO, it's the most
sacred and the most rewarding ceremony in the entire Vodou tradition!
>You wish that I would go away
>and quit interfering with your dream of becoming a Genuine Bonafide
>Houngan in Haitian Vodou.
All our initiates have genuine ceremonies, and are indeed Houngans or Mambos or
hounsis when they are done - unless they have sex within 41 days or eat foods
forbidden during that time, etc.
>When you come back
>you'll know exactly why Racine has made so many enemies.
I think he knows right now - a bunch of jealous fruitcakes would like to make a
lot of money and gain recognition without doing the work, so the imagine the
way to go is to slander me and my house in the hopes of taking over my
clientele.
It's pitiful, Kevin.
Ray
and the other with a 3 page e-mail. In this action of yours you have
proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Mambo Racine IS telling the
TRUTH. You know what? I have forwarded each one to her with my
permission to post them as your e-mails prove in black and white what
she has said about people here slandering and spreading lies about her
in public and then privately e-mailing those whom they think will
initiate into Vodou under her in an effert to stop them.
Well, I sure don't see you trying to stop anyone from being initiated
into Santeria/Lucumi now do I? What does this say to me? I think you
have the spirit of HATE on your head and not Obatala. Mr. Aborisha an
Omo Obatala. Obatala as owner of the white cloth and stands for peace.
Sorry if you have failed to show me this quality in you. Afterall,
when a Santero does not really know who is a person's Orisha, they
automatically put Obatala on the head now don't they.
No offense to any orisha, but I would not stop anyone from being
initiated into Santeia/Lucumi. I figure, that is their life, their
choice. God forbid that I should ever attempt to stand in the way of
someone's spiritual path and growth.
Sincerely
Ray
Sean Williams <nos...@newsranger.com> wrote in message news:<mr7N8.21961$15....@www.newsranger.com>...
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
<who'sya...@NOSPAM.net> writes:
>Mambo Racine,
>
>Anyone checking this forum on the archives will see that I have never posted
>any so called lies against you.
Maybe not under this particular screen name. What do you think, we are all
stupid?
But hey, let's have a look:
On April 26 of this year you came to this forum out of the blue with a post
taking up for Mark Alexander "Aboudja" Moellendorf, and you continued inthe
same vein. You made it plain that you have access to his discussion list, you
threatened me with "attorneys". You accuse me of "badgering", of "antics", you
apologize to people for "suggesting that they are like me".
By May 6 you degenerated to the level of saying, completely falsely, that I am
"obviously lurking and hiding under false screen names". You urge me to attend
so-called "ceremonies" at Mark Alexander "Aboudja" Mollendorf's "house". You
refer to my happy, productive initiates as people who "stand slavishly by your
side". You mock Haitian medsen fey Loulou Prince for no other reason than
that he works with me. I cite Kevin's written threats of anal rape made
against a woman on the Internet, you responded with accusations that I was
"twisting the truth" and that perhaps the woman he threatened was me under
another identity!
All of these remarks, including comments on things that happened before you
were ever on this forum, within thirty days of arriving here? And you want to
tell me that you are a completely new, previously uninvolved person?
Naaaaaaaahhhhh.
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
<nos...@newsranger.com> writes:
>I want to thank you for your keen sense of observation and your tolerance
>of my spelling errors.
No problem.
>I would have never guessed an all important Mambo like yourself,would
>have time for that.
I would never have guessed that I am "all important".
>>I think Ray is right, this is a guy who extends the hand of peace so he can
>>sneak around behind you and use the other hand to stab you in the back.
>>
>>Sean, I don't want you to shut up, but I really wish you would grow up.
>
>I havent done any back stabbing!
Oh, I think you have.
>I have...gone against my word and directed a
>post to you now....<cripes!> [This is the last,I hope!]
Me too - and you might also want to stop sending slanderous emails to
initiation candidates. They know why they have chosen my house.
>Kathy,I dont want you to shut up either. It would be a pleasant change
>to see something from you other than "Kanzo Announcements"
Why shouldn't I announce upcoming kanzos and other events?
>slanted articles
If you think my articles are slanted, WRITE YOUR OWN! Base them on your
fifteen years of experience in Haiti, your work as an educator, journalist and
human rights professional there, your twelve years as an asogwe initiate, the
six bi-annual initiation ceremonies you have done, your experience as the head
of a Vodou congregation. I would be very interested.
>notices of online Vodou ceremony
What is wrong with coordinating private ceremonies and discussing them in
advance, online?
> in addition to pleas for $51.00 candle
>readings.
I do not plead with anyone to have readings. I tell people who want readings
how to obtain them easily. Why shouldn't I charge money?
> Not to mention your posts of a negative nature concerning your
>competition.
Don't you think you are addressing this to the wrong person? At least I say
what I have to say in open forums, I don't slam and slander in secret, and I
don't send dirty private emails trashing people.
And Sean, I stand by everything I have written. I have every right to defend
my house, my initiates, and my name against slanderous lies.
Sean Williams
>and the other with a 3 page e-mail. In this action of yours you have
>proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Mambo Racine IS telling the
>TRUTH. You know what? I have forwarded each one to her with my
>permission to post them as your e-mails prove in black and white what
>she has said about people here slandering and spreading lies about her
>in public and then privately e-mailing those whom they think will
>initiate into Vodou under her in an effert to stop them.
Okay Ray...do you or Racine have my permission to post them? <NO>
As for three and five pages....I break down your comments and add mine
to them!
As I said...Your are a grown man. You will do what you want! You will spend
your HARD EARNED MONEY on what ever you want.
>Well, I sure don't see you trying to stop anyone from being initiated
>into Santeria/Lucumi now do I? What does this say to me? I think you
>have the spirit of HATE on your head and not Obatala. Mr. Aborisha an
>Omo Obatala. Obatala as owner of the white cloth and stands for peace.
>Sorry if you have failed to show me this quality in you. Afterall,
>when a Santero does not really know who is a person's Orisha, they
>automatically put Obatala on the head now don't they.
I am very sorry you got the run around by whomever gave it to you in Santeria!
You seem to have some very negative views about it and thats your right.
But Obatala is the OWNER OF ALL HEADS and just because someone has been marked
as his Omo,does mean the diviner couldnt figure out the correct one! Thats
NUTS!
>No offense to any orisha, but I would not stop anyone from being
>initiated into Santeia/Lucumi. I figure, that is their life, their
>choice. God forbid that I should ever attempt to stand in the way of
>someone's spiritual path and growth.
Is anyone preventing you from doing so....really?
I dont think a group of people are going to perform
a "confrontation" session with you at an airport or anything!
How is anyones cyber-posturing standing in your way?
Regards,
Sean
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
rayowl...@aol.com (Ray) writes:
>Sean mon neg' you privately e-mailed twice. Once with a 5 page e-mail
>and the other with a 3 page e-mail. In this action of yours you have
>proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Mambo Racine IS telling the
>TRUTH. You know what? I have forwarded each one to her with my
>permission to post them as your e-mails prove in black and white what
>she has said about people here slandering and spreading lies about her
>in public and then privately e-mailing those whom they think will
>initiate into Vodou under her in an effert to stop them.
Ah HA! BUSTED, Sean.
WhooooEEE! Ray, you're a real man, my respect to you. I love a person who
calls a shovel a shovel.
>Well, I sure don't see you trying to stop anyone from being initiated
>into Santeria/Lucumi now do I? What does this say to me? I think you
>have the spirit of HATE on your head and not Obatala.
How come he says all those dirty things and swear words, I thought Omo Obatalas
weren't allowed to do that?
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
<nos...@newsranger.com> writes:
>In article <d1e6a33c.02061...@posting.google.com>, Ray says...
>>
>>Sean mon neg' you privately e-mailed twice. Once with a 5 page e-mail
>>and the other with a 3 page e-mail. In this action of yours you have
>>proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Mambo Racine IS telling the
>>TRUTH. You know what? I have forwarded each one to her with my
>>permission to post them as your e-mails prove in black and white what
>>she has said about people here slandering and spreading lies about her
>>in public and then privately e-mailing those whom they think will
>>initiate into Vodou under her in an effert to stop them.
>
>Okay Ray...do you or Racine have my permission to post them? <NO>
Oh, are you embarrassed? I stand by what I say, how about you? Guess not,
huh. But since you don't want them published, I guess that they must prove
that what Ray says is true. And you're the fellow who doesn't do any
backstabbing, right?
Like Bob Marley said, "What's in the darkness must be revealed to light."
Sean Williams
says...
>How come he says all those dirty things and swear words, I thought Omo Obatalas
>weren't allowed to do that?
Strike two for me!
How thoughtless of me...I forgot that when you have your head marked
as being claimed by Obatala,you become a "Saintly" individual on the
spot!
Of all the things that are taboo for "ME",the use of colorful language isnt
one of them! Thats the awesome thing about "La Regla Lukumi",taboos are
for the most part "unique" and "individual"!
There are many traits that can manifest in Obatala's children,some good,some
bad....hence the cosmic duality in everything!
I make no claims to have "OBATALA ON MY HEAD"! I havent been crowned!
Racine,whats your excuse? YOU ARE A RELIGIOUS LEADER,SOLICITING INTITIATES
VIA THE INTERNET AND ANY OTHER MEDIUM AT YOUR DISPOSAL!
You belittle and mock the very people you insist on calling your "Spiritual
Children"! You act just as much the fool as the next person but claim your
on some higher pedastal than those that engage in that behavior!
You throw four lettered words around,but are the first to chastise someone
else for the same trespass! '
You call others NUTS and Mentally Un-stable,yet spend unknown hours responding
to numerous posts displaying all sorts of signs of madness within you!
You are obsessive to the "nth" degree! Especially over spelling errors and like
but when you commit a faux paus....well you have the perfect excuse to
exhonorate yourself!
All in all...youre a TRIP! Sometimes youre funny as hell,witty too! Sometimes
you come across with shear brillance...but others times...well.......you know!
Really...what is your excuse...being a "VALID" MAMBO...why do you act the way
you do? How are you justified? How is it productive in your line of business
and at your supposed standing in the Vodou community? Shouldnt you of all
people be above this pettiness? Your say you are educated.. I believe you,so
whats the excuse? You have an advanced degree,an opposable thumb,a thriving
Persistyle graciously gifted to you,you say your happy and successful....
so why do you commit so much time to stiring the shit?
Do tell!
Sean
Sean Williams
>weren't allowed to do that?
Strike two for me!
Sean Williams
>and the other with a 3 page e-mail. In this action of yours you have
>proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Mambo Racine IS telling the
>TRUTH. You know what? I have forwarded each one to her with my
>permission to post them as your e-mails prove in black and white what
>she has said about people here slandering and spreading lies about her
>in public and then privately e-mailing those whom they think will
>initiate into Vodou under her in an effert to stop them.
Okay Ray...do you or Racine have my permission to post them? <NO>
As for three and five pages....I break down your comments and add mine
to them!
As I said...Your are a grown man. You will do what you want! You will spend
your HARD EARNED MONEY on what ever you want.
>Well, I sure don't see you trying to stop anyone from being initiated
>into Santeria/Lucumi now do I? What does this say to me? I think you
>have the spirit of HATE on your head and not Obatala. Mr. Aborisha an
>Omo Obatala. Obatala as owner of the white cloth and stands for peace.
>Sorry if you have failed to show me this quality in you. Afterall,
>when a Santero does not really know who is a person's Orisha, they
>automatically put Obatala on the head now don't they.
I am very sorry you got the run around by whomever gave it to you in Santeria!
You seem to have some very negative views about it and thats your right.
But Obatala is the OWNER OF ALL HEADS and just because someone has been marked
as his Omo,does mean the diviner couldnt figure out the correct one! Thats
NUTS!
>No offense to any orisha, but I would not stop anyone from being
>initiated into Santeia/Lucumi. I figure, that is their life, their
>choice. God forbid that I should ever attempt to stand in the way of
>someone's spiritual path and growth.
Is anyone preventing you from doing so....really?
Ray
Santeria. This is what is being read into a general statement by those
who A-S-S-U-M-E and want to believe it. Facts are I don't see no one
in Santeria exposing any Santero or Santera here who are GUILTY of the
things that Sean Williams and others are accussing Mambo Racine of
doing. What's with this? I choose to leave Santeria/Lucumi because it
is not my path. But my general statement is a known fact that this
practice of exploitation does go on in Santeria. I think that these
Santeros and Santeras who are rip offs and thieves should be exposed
as well. Mambo Racine is a Mambo of Haitian Vodou, and members of the
Santeria community should not be concerned with what she does.
Santeria is a different religion than Vodou.
Peace
Ray
scott...@mail.com (Omo Oshun) wrote in message news:<67527b6b.0206...@posting.google.com>...
Sean Williams
>and the other with a 3 page e-mail. In this action of yours you have
>proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Mambo Racine IS telling the
>TRUTH. You know what? I have forwarded each one to her with my
>permission to post them as your e-mails prove in black and white what
>she has said about people here slandering and spreading lies about her
>in public and then privately e-mailing those whom they think will
>initiate into Vodou under her in an effert to stop them.
Lets be accurate with our statements,shall we?
I emailed you a TOTAL of THREE times,concerning this drama.
1) I emailed the post concerning Dilogun to you,because you
didnt answer it for sometime.
2)I replied to an email that you sent me after the "one liner" email,telling
me to look for your post here on ARO concerning the original post directed to
you. I titled it "ONE LAST TIME",keeping with my "Merry Parting" theme!
3)You felt obliged to email me again in return and I did the same,providing
comment on your statements!Which by the way amounted to babble and more
shit talking from you! I titled this one "De' Plane,De' Plane" in ref. to your
Fantasy Island comment!
In both emails,I apologized to you and did the same in public.
I also said,my comments towards Racine were not justifiable,no matter
what type of conduct she engages in or what she may have said about me!
As a matter of fact,my comments about her privately,were toned down
a whole hell of allot and I said nothing that I havent said in public!
The reason she was brought up,was due to your doing so..... originally!
Why you forwarded them is very telling about those neediness issues I
commented on....You do know that the "Mama" reference,in regards to Vodou
initiation is not a literal one,dont you? Are you looking for a *TIT* or
Guidence?
I have said this before privately and publicly...I am not insulting Ray T.
Malbrough or Mambo Racine (Kathy S. Grey) in a public forum ever again,with
regards to Ray's book(s),choice of spiritual leadership etc etc etc,or
off color remarks towards Mambo Racines "sexuality" or lack there of,
her reported attire in Haiti,weed usage,ceremonies in New Orleans or her
motives in traversing the globe etc etc etc!
I will also attempt to refrain from comments that attack other womens sexuality
and tear up my supposed "he-man womun haterz club card"...as I have been
accused of, by Mambo Racine.
>Well, I sure don't see you trying to stop anyone from being initiated
>into Santeria/Lucumi now do I? What does this say to me? I think you
>have the spirit of HATE on your head and not Obatala. Mr. Aborisha an
>Omo Obatala. Obatala as owner of the white cloth and stands for peace.
>Sorry if you have failed to show me this quality in you. Afterall,
>when a Santero does not really know who is a person's Orisha, they
>automatically put Obatala on the head now don't they.
You must have gotten taken for a ride and duped pretty bad.
Why are you retorting with anti-Santeria/Lukumi B.S.?
Have I knocked Vodou? *NO I HAVE NOT*!
Have I claimed Lukumi has some sort of superiority? *AGAIN,NO I HAVE NOT*!
How are you construeing that I have?
Is this an attempt at a personal dig towards me? Greater men and women than you
have tried and failed on that note. Anti-Lukumi blurbs do not rile me up.
You just keep on keeping on, with what you borrowed from Santeria/Lukumi and
make a quick buck off of it! Its all the rage with the eclectics now,isnt it?
I notice when you think it affords you an air of authenticity,you have nothing
negative to say about it! Strange................
>No offense to any orisha, but I would not stop anyone from being
>initiated into Santeia/Lucumi. I figure, that is their life, their
>choice. God forbid that I should ever attempt to stand in the way of
>someone's spiritual path and growth.
What are you throwing a hissy over now? NO ONE IS PREVENTING RAY FROM
HIS PURSUITS TOWARD VODOU!
You popped up,shrouded in zeal,showing support for your chosen "spiritual
guide"! You criticized a type of behavior,by enagaing in it! You got your hands
dirty while you were complaining about the crap ridden tactics of others!
What did you expect?
That everyone,seeing that Rev. Ray "Owl Bear" T. Malbrough didnt approve of
what was going on,would cease with there negative comments?
THE ALL SAINTS CHAPEL OF FAITH CHURCH SEAL HOLDER HATH SPOKEN! REFRAIN
YOURSELVES NOW!
I have seen behind the curtain...and theres a guy with the poor remains of a
mullet,in bad need of a hair cut and shit stained hands! Get back behind your
curtain dude...but stay off the "high horse" in this instance!
This negativity has been online towards Racine since at least 1997 and will
continue in all likelihood!
You are the one not allowing the turd to dry up and blow away! Youre keeping
it warm and flipping it around....LET IT GO! QUIT PLAYING WITH THE TURD
RAY! LOL!
You have said your piece...made your choice...*do your thing*!
I have admitted my wrongs and committed to not doing them again...lets move on!
I sincerely wish you all the best on your journey! HONESTLY!!!!
Regards,
Sean
Kevin Filan
Hash: SHA1
"Ray" <rayowl...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:d1e6a33c.02061...@posting.google.com...
> Mambo Racine is a Mambo of Haitian Vodou, and members of the
> Santeria community should not be concerned with what she does.
In other words:
* If someone involved in Vodou criticizes Racine, it's because
they're jealous
* If someone not involved in Vodou criticizes Racine, it's none of
their business.
That's a good way to ensure that you don't hear any negative
information about your chosen guru.
Peace
Kevin Filan
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Mambo Racine Sans Bout
<nos...@newsranger.com> writes:
>In article <20020611004813...@mb-mh.aol.com>,
>Mambo Racine Sans Bout says...
>>How come he says all those dirty things and swear words, I thought Omo
>>Obatalas weren't allowed to do that?
>
>Strike two for me!
>
>How thoughtless of me...I forgot that when you have your head marked
>as being claimed by Obatala,you become a "Saintly" individual on the
>spot!
I haven't accused you of "not being saintly", I have said that it was my
understanding that children of Obatala were not supposed to use swear words.
>Of all the things that are taboo for "ME",the use of colorful language isnt
>one of them!
Children of Obatala are all forbidden to drink alcohol. I thought they were
forbidden to cuss, too. Anyone else want to tell me about that?
>There are many traits that can manifest in Obatala's children,some good,some
>bad....hence the cosmic duality in everything!
Yes, you are a fine example of... "cosmic duality"! LOL!
>I make no claims to have "OBATALA ON MY HEAD"! I havent been crowned!
That doesn't mean you are not a child of Obatala. I thought you said you were,
didn't you?
>Racine,whats your excuse?
For what?
> YOU ARE A RELIGIOUS LEADER,SOLICITING INTITIATES
>VIA THE INTERNET AND ANY OTHER MEDIUM AT YOUR DISPOSAL!
Right! ALL Houngans and Mambos announce upcoming kanzos, by whatever means at
their disposal. In Haiti it's word of mouth, and songs during Rara, things
like that, also telephones where people have them. Since my community is in
part an online one, I use the Internet. The Houngans and Mambos I work with in
Jacmel think that this is a fabulous idea, and clamor for me to make web pages
for them. I have in fact done so for two Houngans and an herbalist.
>You belittle and mock the very people you insist on calling your "Spiritual
>Children"!
I *respond* to slander directed at me. I make my responses on a public forum,
I don't sneak around slandering people on closed lists or in private emails.
Have you no shame, man? You sent Ray filthy emails full of cursing and
vulgarity, slandering me and my house.
>You call others NUTS and Mentally Un-stable,yet spend unknown hours
>responding
>to numerous posts displaying all sorts of signs of madness within you!
Ummmm... excuse me, but, aren't you the one originating a lot of the slander?
You certainly can't claim the moral high ground here, with the kind of filth
you email Ray.
>You are obsessive to the "nth" degree! Especially over spelling errors and
>like
>but when you commit a faux paus....well you have the perfect excuse to
>exhonorate yourself!
E-x-o-n-e-r-a-t-e. LOL! My point is that you and your cronies are uneducated
hacks.
>Really...what is your excuse...being a "VALID" MAMBO...why do you act the way
>you do? How are you justified? How is it productive in your line of business
>and at your supposed standing in the Vodou community?
I debunk slander directed against my house, my initiates, and me. That is my
privilege. How would it help my house to let such lies go unchallenged?
>why do you commit so much time to stiring the shit?
S-t-i-r-r-i-n-g.
You know, that particular vulgar phrase is used a lot by Mark Alexander
"Aboudja" Moellendorf. Are you aping him or are you him?
who'syamama
named Medsin Fey or threats of attorneys that I have typed here. If I urged
you to attend a ceremony held by this fellow - at this moment I do not
recall, but I will check later when I have more time - it was purely so that
you could see with your own eyes what you claimed to know only through
gossip -- not the most reliable source of information. Perhaps you have me
confused with someone else on the list. There has been so much banter back
and forth that it is entirely possible that you have forgotten who has said
what.
Yes, I did look up old posts about Kevin and you because your tendency to
cut and paste what makes you look most flattering and what makes others look
most ill-mannered drives my up one wall and down another. It is a simple
matter to check the archives. I stand by what I have said here.
"Mambo Racine Sans Bout" <raci...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020611001959...@mb-fh.aol.com...
who'syamama
turned up some of your legendary battles with her and I suggested that
others here might search on BOTH of your names and find interesting history.
I suspect that it offended her that someone might mistake her as being
associated with you or being like you in some way. I did not intend to
offend the person in question; therefore, an apology was in order.
"Mambo Racine Sans Bout" <raci...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020611001959...@mb-fh.aol.com...
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
<mrha...@excite.SPAMBGONE.com> writes:
>* If someone involved in Vodou criticizes Racine, it's because
>they're jealous
>* If someone not involved in Vodou criticizes Racine, it's none of
>their business.
>
>That's a good way to ensure that you don't hear any negative
>information about your chosen guru.
Criticism is one thing, outrageous lies and filthy slander are another.
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
<who'sya...@NOSPAM.net> writes:
> I suggested that
>others here might search on BOTH of your names
Both my names? I post only as raci...@aol.com. Are you referring to my
former dejanews handle, mambo...@my-deja.com ?
Peace and love,
Bon Mambo Racine Sans Bout Sa Te La Daginen
"Se bon ki ra" - Good is rare
Haitian proverb
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
<nos...@newsranger.com> writes:
>In both emails,I apologized to you and did the same in public.
>
>I also said,my comments towards Racine were not justifiable,no matter
>what type of conduct she engages in or what she may have said about me!
>
So why have you begun sending nasty, vulgar emails to me?
DON'T EMAIL ME AGAIN. Not from "seanwil...@earthlink.net" (oh gosh,
another earthlink screen name, what a coincidence) and not from any other email
address. DON'T EMAIL ME.
Peace and love,
Bon Mambo Racine Sans Bout Sa Te La Daginen
"Se bon ki ra" - Good is rare
Haitian Proverb
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
<who'sya...@NOSPAM.net> writes:
>Check the archives, Mambo Racine; there are no such posts regarding anyone
>named Medsin Fey or threats of attorneys that I have typed here.
Of course there are, I read them while writing the post!
>Perhaps you have me
>confused with someone else on the list.
Are there two people posting as who'sya...@NOSPAM.net ?
Sean Williams
says...
>So why have you begun sending nasty, vulgar emails to me?
>
>DON'T EMAIL ME AGAIN. Not from "seanwil...@earthlink.net" (oh gosh,
>another earthlink screen name, what a coincidence) and not from any other email
>address. DON'T EMAIL ME.
I said nothing nasty or vulgar to you! I did however,make a comment from
a statement of yours out of context...a practice you engage in regularly!
By the way..."earthlink.net" is an ISP,like AOL....so what are you trying to
say? That I am Aboudja too because my Internet Service Provider is Earthlink?
Take a prozac.....have your Medsen Fey send you a "lithium head soak"...do
something!
Sean
Sean Williams
>
>Check the archives, Mambo Racine;<
who'syamama,
Thats the best advice I have seen given in this whole drama.
If anyone is really interested in finding a shred of truth ,concerning the
R-E-A-L Kathy S. Grey,check the google archives!
Do a search on any of the following:
Racine+Fanawhile Racine+Soutini Racine+Filan Racine+Aboudja
By doing so,you will have a FIVE YEAR history of Racines BULL SHIT!
There she is,mocking peoples spelling errors,accusing people of
P-R-O-J-E-C-T-I-O-N and various other things.... I think she needs to update her
repertoire.
Her current bag of tricks are just T-I-R-E-D and worn out!
When you are reading these achived posts,mull on Racines statement about
repeating lies again and again and how that will never make them true....if
only she would see this!
The funniest thing I have read about Racine, is how she acts when she goes
shopping in Haiti.....pay close attention for that post,written by a Haitian
man living near Jacmel! Its classic!
Oh...and pay close attention to the posts authored by "Fanawhile/Iya Oshuntoki"!
There are some very interesting facts that surface within them! Not to mention
"Iya Oshuntokis" hysterical sense of humor...there are some knee slappers in
there to be sure, regarding Racine!
Regards,
Sean
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
<nos...@newsranger.com> writes:
>you will have a FIVE YEAR history of Racines BULL SHIT!
Sean, is it possible for you to make a post without uttering obscenities,
profanities, and sexual slurs? Also, could you possibly learn when to use
apostrophes (for contractions and possessives, and not for plural nouns). You
should have written "Racine's BULL SH*T", if you wanted to make
>There she is,mocking peoples spelling errors,accusing people of
>P-R-O-J-E-C-T-I-O-N and various other things....
And rightfully so - if you try to organize a scam to solicit charity
contributions for "poor Haitians" when you really plan to use that money to pay
for a kanzo, and then when someone thwarts your little scheme you accuse them
of "fraud", then that is a textbook example of projection.
What sort of behaviors do you do, Sean? Slanderous emails sent to prospective
initiation candidates, making vile accusations regarding things about which you
know nothing?
I hope any interested party reads the archives, for REAL! I stand by
everything I have said, and I think it will be very revealing to any objective
reader.