Is this KKK sounding talk by Mormon GA Alvin R. Dyer true?
Joe
responded that this was a common teaching before 1978. Do any older
members here remember such teachings. I was a kid in the 80s and I
remember being taught that I was a valiant spirit in heaven and that
is why I was born mormon in America. THis talk says basically the same
thing and just adds 'born white'.
--------------------------------------------
Mormon General Authority Alvin R. Dyer teaching missionaries in Norway
why they are white:
We have talked a lot about missionary work and heard the testimonies
of those who have spoken. I want to talk to you a little bit now about
something that is not missionary work, and what I say is NOT to be
given to your investigators by any matter of means....
Why is it that you are white and not colored? Have you ever asked
yourself that question? Who had anything to do with your being born
into the Church and not born a Chinese or a Hindu, or a Negro? Is God
such an unjust person that He would make you white and free and make a
Negro CURSED under the CURSING OF CAIN that he sould not hold the
Priesthood of God?...
I want to talk to you just briefly about this, not with any
information that you would convey to your investigators, but that you,
yourselves, may have a better understanding of what we are doing in
the mission field today...
There were three divisions of mankind in the pre-existence, and when
you are born into this life, you are born into one of these three
divisions of people. There is an imposed judgment placed upon everyone
who leaves the Spirit World just the same as there will be when they
leave this life and go into one of three places. When they left the
Spirit World, they had already been judged by what they had done in
the Spirit World and in their previous life. From what judgment is
determined how they shall be born in this life? When you understand
that, you know that God is not unjust to cause a righteous spirit to
be born as a CURSED member of the BLACK RACE or to be CURSED as one of
the other people who have been CURSED. Everything is in order. The
procreation of man is orderly and in accordance with the plan of life
and salvation.
In keeping with this thought, when Noah went into the Ark, here again
he took with him his three sons—one representing the CURSED
LINEAGE.... Those who have been cursed in the pre-existence were born
through this lineage of Ham.
I suppose, and you may have often heard missionaries say it or have
asked the question: Why is a Negro a Negro? And, you have heard this
answer. 'Well, they must have been neutral in the pre-existence or
they must have straddled the fence. That is the most common
saying—they were neither hot nor cold, so the Lord made them Negroes.
This, of course, is not true. The reason that spirits are born into
Negro bodies is because those spirits rejected the Priesthood of God
in the pre-existence. This is the reason why you have Negroes upon the
earth.
You will observe that when Cain was influenced by the power of Lucifer
to follow him...Cain rejected the counsel of God. He rejected again
the Priesthood as his forebearers had done in the pre-existence.
Therefore, the curse of the pre-existence was made institute through
the loins of Cain. Consequently, you have the beginning of the race of
men and women into which would be born those in the pre-existence who
had rejected the Priesthood of God....
Ham reinstated the curse of the pre-existence when he rejected the
Priesthood of Noah, and in consequence of that he preserved the curse
on the earth. Therefore, the Negroes to be born thereafter, or those
who were to become Negroes, were to be born through the loins of Ham.
All of this is according to a well worked-out plan, that these
millions and billions of spirits awaiting birth in the pre-existence
would be born through a channel or race of people. Consequently, the
cursed were to be born through Ham....
The cursed people are the descendants of Ham. The chosen people are
the descendants of Shem... Through these lineages thespirits that
compare with their station are born in this life. This is why you have
colored people, why you have dark people and why you have white
people....
I don't know whether the knowledge or the revelation of these things
will have an effect upon you as a missionary, but I know that it has
an effect upon me,...the day will come when you know who you are,
because you are a person of nobility. You may not fully know that now,
but you were a person of nobility in the pre-existence. If you were
not, you would have been born into one of these other channels, and
you would not have been born in this day and age, because the Lord has
withheld the CHOICE spirits of the pre-existence to come forth in
this, the last dispensation,...
I wanted you to know the reason why you are preaching the Gospel.
There is a purpose behind it and knowing this as you do and knowing
your NOBILITY—what kind of a missionary are you going to be from this
day to the end of your mission?...
I have always thought and have proven the point many times that if you
will place into the mind of a boy or a girl, firmly, that they are
noble persons born of noble heritage in the pre-existence, they will
never stoop to anything that is sordid.... I have made known to you
today something you may not have known before, but you know them now
because the Spirit bears record.
May the Lord bless you in it and bless you with this knowledge. I bear
record of its truthfulness in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.
"For What Purpose?," a talk given by Alvin R. Dyer at the Missionary
Conference in Oslo, Norway, March 18, 1961, printed in The Negro in
Mormon Theology, pp. 48-58
TheJordan6
>Date: 9/17/2003 10:52 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <998cc0dde699e91b...@news.teranews.com>
>
>This was posted on the exmormon.org site and many older ex-members
>responded that this was a common teaching before 1978. Do any older
>members here remember such teachings. I was a kid in the 80s and I
>remember being taught that I was a valiant spirit in heaven and that
>is why I was born mormon in America. THis talk says basically the same
>thing and just adds 'born white'.
Yes, Dyer's speech entitled "For What Purpose" was popular in LDS circles in
the '60s and '70s.
I was given a photocopy of it upon arriving in my mission in Brisbane,
Australia, in 1974. The scuttlebutt was that Dyer's talk was one of those
"meaty" sermons that we "insiders" were "privileged" to have access to, but we
were told to not share it with investigators or church members in general. The
sermons was supposed to help us missionaries understand why we were born, and
when and where, as related to LDS teachings.
Dyer, of course, became a counselor to President David O. McKay in the late
'60s, which indicates that his ideas reflected a high degree of orthodoxy and
acceptance in the highest circles of LDS leadership.
It was the racial unrest and the Civil Rights movement of the '60s which forced
LDS leaders to quietly cease expressing such controversial and wrong-headed
doctrines. But we are fortunate to still have those teachings in print for
posterity, so that everyone can see for themselves just how racist and silly
some of the LDS leaders' teachings were.
Some selections from LDS leaders' teachings on race, including Dyer's, can be
read at
http://www.realmormonhistory.com/god&skin.htm
Randy J.
exmo
>
> This was posted on the exmormon.org site and many older ex-members
> responded that this was a common teaching before 1978. Do any older
> members here remember such teachings. I was a kid in the 80s and I
> remember being taught that I was a valiant spirit in heaven and that
> is why I was born mormon in America. THis talk says basically the same
> thing and just adds 'born white'.
>
> --------------------------------------------
> Mormon General Authority Alvin R. Dyer teaching missionaries in Norway
> why they are white:
snip
> I have always thought and have proven the point many times that if you
> will place into the mind of a boy or a girl, firmly, that they are
> noble persons born of noble heritage in the pre-existence, they will
> never stoop to anything that is sordid....
By this logic, I wonder what the effect would be of someone like Dyer
placing into the mind of a black child that he or she was somewhat
*less* than "noble" in the "pre-existence"? I wonder what they would
grow up to be or to think?
ABEL JOHNSON
any 'lesser race'. This sounds like teaching the responsibility and need to
nurture and lift up any less valiant spirit to a higher level.
"Joe" <j...@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:998cc0dde699e91b...@news.teranews.com...
> he took with him his three sons-one representing the CURSED
> LINEAGE.... Those who have been cursed in the pre-existence were born
> through this lineage of Ham.
>
> I suppose, and you may have often heard missionaries say it or have
> asked the question: Why is a Negro a Negro? And, you have heard this
> answer. 'Well, they must have been neutral in the pre-existence or
> they must have straddled the fence. That is the most common
> saying-they were neither hot nor cold, so the Lord made them Negroes.
> your NOBILITY-what kind of a missionary are you going to be from this
Helen
>
>snip
> All of this is according to a well worked-out plan, that these
> millions and billions of spirits awaiting birth in the pre-existence
> would be born through a channel or race of people. Consequently, the
> cursed were to be born through Ham....
>
> The cursed people are the descendants of Ham. The chosen people are
> the descendants of Shem... Through these lineages thespirits that
> compare with their station are born in this life. This is why you have
> colored people, why you have dark people and why you have white
> people....
> snip
> in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.
>
> "For What Purpose?," a talk given by Alvin R. Dyer at the Missionary
> Conference in Oslo, Norway, March 18, 1961, printed in The Negro in
> Mormon Theology, pp. 48-58
>
Anyone who believes this shite is a racist red neck.Thanks for posting this
Joe, it is indeed disturbing to find this stuff and know that once many
members believed it's malicious sentiment. Ugly skeletons in the churches
doctrinal cupboards like this really remind me why I am inactive.
GoddessXena
Jesus loves the Ku Klux Klanners,
Jesus loves the KKK,
Pointy hats and flowing robes,
Burning crosses, homophobes!
Jesus loves the Klanners of the world!
--
Don't Blame Me, My Vote Didn't Count
--
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that
we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic
and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."
- Theodore Roosevelt
---
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php
http://www.unknownnews.net
GRaleigh345
We'll see how much Jesus loves racists. If Bustamente is elected governor of
California, we'll know that He does.
Buy a Chrysler, they will go
For the TV told me so.
All of them come very cheap--
Come down and trade in your heap.
God drives a Chrysler
God drives a Chrysler
God drives a Chrysler
The TV told me so.
Buy a Chrysler, be a man
Ten cylinders in your van.
Some come from Mercedes Benz,
So buy, and be Americans.
God drives a Chrysler
God drives a Chrysler
God drives a Chrysler
The TV told me so.
Raleigh
Christianity isn't an "ism." "Isms" are counterproductive to Christianity, be
they Roman Catholicism, Mormonism, Calvinism, Unitarianism, or whatnot. The
only "ism" that is a legitimate part of Christianity is baptism.