The Book of Mormon and the Book of Madoc: Too Close to be mere "coincidence"
Darrick
"View of the Hebrews" and The Book of Mormon. Elias Smith was the
pastor of a church attended by the Cowdery family in Vermont. In 1826
Elias Smith was in Palmyra, New York, for business unknown. Elias
Smith was very highly educated, and had studied Hebrew for years.
In 1826, in upstate New York, there was a growing anti-Masonic
movement. At that time, the anti-Masons believed that the Masons had
killed two men, William MORgan and Timothy MONroe, who were "martyrs"
in the anti-Masonic cause. Morgan was a former Mason writing and
expose' of Freemasonry. His scribe on the project was Oliver Cowdery,
who later became the scribe of Joseph Smith, who, later married
William Morgan's widow as a plural wife in Nauvoo.
Elias Smith was very anti-Masonic, and referred to Freemasonry as a
"secret combination"; a term found in The Book of Mormon.
In the Book of Mormon, we have Alma and Alma the Younger, whose
exploits are very similar to those of ALexander MAck and ALexander
MAck "The Younger"; the founder and son of the German Dunkers (Church
of the Brethren). The son of ALMA the Younger in the Book of Mormon
was "Corianton". The son of Alexander Mack called "The Younger" (a
term used before "Junior" became popular) was Cory Anton Mack.
There are many similarities in The Book of Mormon to battles between
English settlers and Indians (allied to the French) in the French-
Indian war of the 1750s.
The first verse of The Book of Mormon has a strong parallel with a
16th century book by John Dee called "The Book of Madoc": a fictional
account of a Welsh prince who sails to America in the 12th century
A.D.
In the Book of Mormon, Nephi writes:
"I Nephi, being born of goodly parents, therefore I was taught
somewhat in all the learning of my father; and having seen many
afflictions in the course of my days, nevertheless, having been
highly
favored of the Lord in all my days; yea, having had a great knowledge
of the goodness and the mysteries of God, therefore I make a record
of
the proceeding of my days". (1 Nephi 1:1)
In the Book of Madoc, by John Dee:
"I, Madoc, born of goodly parents, was taught somewhat in the
learning
of my father, nevertheless having seen many afflictions, therefore I
make a record in my day as a vagabond upon the face of the earth."
(Madoc 3:1)
Madog was a Welsh prince who purportedly sailed to America in the
12th
century. They had wars with the Indians. The son of Madog was Mor
Awnyry (pronounced "More-On-ih-rih").
Part of the Church of the Brethren included the Zionitic Brotherhood,
an Order
of German Protestant monks who claimed to have the "Order of
Melchizedek" priesthood
dating back to early Christian times. The Zionitic Brotherhood was
headquartered in
Ephrata, Pennsylvania, and was established there in 1659 A.D. They
had
a wooden "Temple" were
sacred secret rites were performed, and baptisms for the dead. Peter
Whitmer, the father of
David Whitmer, John Whitmer, Peter Whitmer Jr., John Whitmer, Jacob
Whitmer, had been one
time a member of the Order of Melchizedek, before he left the Order
as
a young man and married.
The Church of Christ was first organized at the Whitmer farm in
Farmington, New York. The Book of
Mormon was translated at the Whitmer Farm in Harmony, Pennsylvania.
Most Mormons think like this:
*This CAN'T be true since...
1) If the Book of Mormon is false then...
2) Mormonism is false then..
3) Christianity is false then..
4) There is no God then...
5) Life has no purpose so..
6) This CANNOT be true!
This is NOT logical. It is ANTI-logic.
The following is logical:
1) If the Book of Mormon is NOT true history then...
2) Joseph Smith was NOT a true prophet then...
3) Gordon B. Hinckley is NOT a true prophet then...
4) My temple-going and meeting attending and tithe-paying earns me NO
heavenly rewards in the Afterlife and....
5) My temple sealings will mean NOTHING in the Afterlife so...
6) The Church therefore CANNOT be true but...
7) This does NOT mean that God does not exist, NOR does that mean
that truth is not upon the Earth!
THAT is logic, something the True Believing Mormon CANNOT grasp! They
CANNOT
grasp the logic of this, but will rely on total IGNORANCE and
illogical thought pattern.
The Book of Mormon is NOT historical!!! The American Indians have NO
Semitic blood in them. Not one "gene". The animals mentioned in the
Book of Mormon (oxen, asses, goats, sheep) did NOT exist in the
Americas before the Spanish brought them.
Gordon B. Hinckley is NOT a "Living Prophet". He does not prophesy.
He
does not see visions. He does not receive Revelation.
Don't lose heart. A TRUE Prophet exists. His name is DAHESH:
http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/dahesh/
NickYoungh
"Geiserik" <dejonghn...@hotmail.com>Datum: 31 Oct 2006 00:36:00 -0800
Re: The Book of Mormon and the Book of Madog
Darrick wrote
> In the Book of Mormon, Nephi writes:
> "I Nephi, being born of goodly parents, therefore I was taught somewhat
> in all the learning of my father; and having seen many afflictions in
> the course of my days, nevertheless, having been highly favored of the
> Lord in all my days; yea, having had a great knowledge of the goodness
> and the mysteries of God, therefore I make a record of the proceeding
> of my days". (1 Nephi 1:1)
> In the Book of Madog (pronounced "Mah-dawkh"), by John Dee (written in
> the mid-1500s):
> "I, Madog, born of goodly parents, was taught somewhat in the learning
> of my father, nevertheless having seen many afflictions, therefore I
> make a record in my day as a vagabond upon the face of the earth."
> (Madog 3:1)
> Mere coincidence?
retro wrote
>There was obviously once a copy of Dee's "Madog"
i>n the Palmyra Public Library, next to "View of the Hebrews"
>and Adair's "History of the American Indians".
may the nice thinking prevail and blossom contineously
of course this is no coincidence
wisdom is timeless and spasceless
history put markers in our genes
The Book of Mormon is real history, we look in the wrong places but
at
the good time
Did you read my endless string "The events in the book of Mormon did
happen in real"
John Dee lived long and everywhere, was a famous storyteller of his
(and his fathers) seatravels like Nephi was
A coming subject in my string will be another sailor,Hagoth, the
curious man, who build ships to sail through thr bottleneck of water
south to the lands in the North.
In my demasqué of the BoM "The promissed land"is Canaän, "land
Lehi"Lycia, "land Nephi"Pontus, so the bottleneck of water"" the
Dardanus. And "the lands northwards" Norway. Ireland and
Wales."Hagoths
arrival is written in the Irish book of the invasions where the
curious
man Hagoth was the druid of Parthalon "Investigation" in the land of
Madoc ?, after making a proviand stop in La Coruna in Galicia.
In Spain they are convinced that the English and Irish Celts came
from
Gallicia, who came from Thracia. What makes the trek of Nephi
overland
the migration of the Thracians to Tomis.
These books are made for proving and that is what we do.
Nick Toungh
MORMONS HISTORICAL REVIVAL
Mike Sullivan
"Darrick" <darrick...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1eb06f03-c4f7-4fe4...@p1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
snip interesting thoughts.
> Don't lose heart. A TRUE Prophet exists. His name is DAHESH:
> http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/dahesh/
>
No, no, you must follow the holy sandal.
Bret Ripley
You're both wrong wrong wrong. Follow the gourd, blasphemers.
Bret
Bret Ripley
> "Geiserik" <dejonghn...@hotmail.com>Datum: 31 Oct 2006 00:36:00 -0800
> Re: The Book of Mormon and the Book of Madog
>
> Darrick wrote
>
>
>> In the Book of Mormon, Nephi writes:
>
>> "I Nephi, being born of goodly parents, therefore I was taught somewhat
>> in all the learning of my father; and having seen many afflictions in
>> the course of my days, nevertheless, having been highly favored of the
>> Lord in all my days; yea, having had a great knowledge of the goodness
>> and the mysteries of God, therefore I make a record of the proceeding
>> of my days". (1 Nephi 1:1)
>
>
>> In the Book of Madog (pronounced "Mah-dawkh"), by John Dee (written in
>> the mid-1500s):
>
>
>> "I, Madog, born of goodly parents, was taught somewhat in the learning
>> of my father, nevertheless having seen many afflictions, therefore I
>> make a record in my day as a vagabond upon the face of the earth."
>> (Madog 3:1)
>
>
>> Mere coincidence?
>
>
>
> retro wrote
>
>
>>There was obviously once a copy of Dee's "Madog"
>
>
> i>n the Palmyra Public Library, next to "View of the Hebrews"
>
>
>>and Adair's "History of the American Indians".
>
>
> may the nice thinking prevail and blossom contineously
> of course this is no coincidence
Truly, no one understands you better than RetroProphet. I hope you will
remember him in several footnotes when you write your book.
> wisdom is timeless
> and spasceless history put
> markers in our genes
Congratulations! You're the winner of the secret ARM haiku contest.
Bret
NickYoungh
>
> Truly, no one understands you better than RetroProphet. I hope you will
> remember him in several footnotes when you write your book.
No I will not, two years ago I did ask him, if he was aware of a Rabbi
in the surroundings of JS and he said : no, for sure , no.
So I lost two years looking for Alexander Neibaur, till you, of all
people, mentionned him by joke. Not to talk about Luman Walters, who
was meant of puulling legs.
He was his German and Russian and Hebrew teacher, holy retro.
RetroProphet
NickYoungh says...
It was only about a year ago that we first conversed here
on A.R.M. and as I recall you never asked for a rabbi,
and more importantly, we were discussing people Joseph Smith
knew *before* the Book of Mormon was written.
You asked:
"To prove a link between Firkovitch and Joseph Smith
we have to find out, which people in the circle of
Joseph Smith were from Russian, Ukrainian or Lithuaninan
descent or were in the circle of illegal manuscript
dealings or travelled to Jerusalem."
I answered:
"Nobody in Joseph Smith's pre-Book of Mormon circle fits
any of these descriptors."
http://tinyurl.com/2gljfk / Nov 22 2006
===
Neibaur lived in Europe and England until 1841 and he never
actually was a rabbi -- he quit his rabbinical studies in 1825
and instead studied dentistry in Berlin for the next three years
while Joseph Smith and his friends were preparing the text of
the Book of Mormon.
Do you think he sold the Khazar archives to pay for his
dental courses? When and to who? Now that you have found
Neibauer how do you propose that he fits into your theory?
Smith had an earlier Hebrew teacher, Joshua Seixas, around
1835, but I don't see how he helps either.
NickYoungh
> On 21 dec, 14:54, RetroProphet <RetroProphet_mem...@newsguy.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Neibaur lived in Europe and England until 1841 and he never
> > actually was a rabbi -- he quit his rabbinical studies in 1825
> > and instead studied dentistry in Berlin for the next three years
> > while Joseph Smith and his friends were preparing the text of
> > the Book of Mormon.
>
>
>
>
> > Do you think he sold the Khazar archives to pay for his
> > dental courses?
>
> Enough to buy the whole of Utah !!!
>
> > When and to who? Now that you have found
> > Neibauer how do you propose that he fits into your theory?
>
> Napoleon as president of the French Scientific Society and restater of
> the Sorbonne University robbed many ancient Jewish manuscripts
> (Bologna). and possibly did sent the historeans of the Sorbonne to the
> than allready famous collector of Russian Karaite Jew manuscripts
> Firkovitch.
> (Kublay Khan as well invaded Russia in search of Khazaria)
> Napoleon did ask the son of his physican, Alexander Neibaur, a Karaite
> rabbi and a gifted lenguist, to join him on his robbing raid to
> Russia through Karaïte Poland and Ucrania.(Like the French crusaders
> did before) After his defeat he tried to save his collection with his
> marshall Ney, who is said to have faked his execution.
>
> Peter Stewart Ney arrived in the same year 1818 in America as Luman
> Walters did, (same boat ?) who was a money launderer of that time:
> treasury hunter, hiding and digging hoards. Walters heard about the
> dreams of a silly money diggers boy and could have hidden the box at
> the place, where he told the boy to look.The allready by Alexander
> Neibaur translated documents about a Jewish Nomad tribe was not
> recognised in America as Russian and became an instant bestselling
> hit . and a bible and a religion. Walters, a middle man, was paid
> off, likeMark Hoffmann is nowadays.
>
> When the Napoleon hoard was safely hidden as relic under the temple of
> a fast growing sect, Napoleons godson came over and claimed his
> herency.
> He was given a house and land in Utah,a job as private teacher of JS,
> a high ranking in the church and he bred the Mormon archeologists,
> like his grandson Hugh Nibley, who made the worlds biggest smoke screen ever.
>
> Now Retro, we do come to your expertise, there is more at stake than
> only the "Chazar archives": "The Napoleon hoard".
> Drill them out of the cement foundations of the Mormon temple, (in
> America or England ?) you keep the gold and give me a charcoal copy of
> the archives.
> (the Nick Youngh Transcriptions) Deal ?
Nick Youngh.
MORMONS HISTORICAL REVIVAL
http://groups.google.nl/group/the-book-of-mormon-in-the-classical-historywriting?hl=en
RetroProphet
NickYoungh says...
>
>On 21 dec, 14:54, RetroProphet <RetroProphet_mem...@newsguy.com>
>wrote:
>
>> Neibaur lived in Europe and England until 1841 and he never
>> actually was a rabbi -- he quit his rabbinical studies in 1825
>> and instead studied dentistry in Berlin for the next three years
>> while Joseph Smith and his friends were preparing the text of
>> the Book of Mormon.
>(Golden plates you hide in teeth).
>>
>> Do you think he sold the Khazar archives to pay for his
>> dental courses?
>
>Are you nuts, didn't calculate you how much gold is involved ?
>Enough to buy the whole of Utah !!!
>
>> When and to who? Now that you have found
>> Neibauer how do you propose that he fits into your theory?
>
>You must have missed my posting on that.
>Napoleon as president of the French Scientific Society and restater of
>the Sorbonne University robbed many ancient Jewish manuscripts
>(Bologna). and possibly did sent the historeans of the Sorbonne to the
>than allready famous collector of Russian Karaite Jew manuscripts
>Firkovitch.
>(Kublay Khan as well invaded Russia in search of Khazaria)
>Napoleon did ask the son of his physican, Alexander Neibaur, a Karaite
>rabbi and a gifted lenguist, to join him on his robbing raid to
>Russia through Karaite Poland and Ucrania.(Like the French crusaders
>did before) After his defeat he tried to save his collection with his
>marshall Ney, who is said to have faked his execution.
>
>Peter Stewart Ney arrived in the same year 1818 in America as Luman
>Walters did, (same boat ?) who was a money launderer of that time:
>treasury hunter, hiding and digging hoards. Walters heard about the
>dreams of a silly money diggers boy and could have hidden the box at
>the place, where he told the boy to look.The allready by Alexander
>Neibaur translated documents about a Jewish Nomad tribe was not
>recognised in America as Russian and became an instant bestselling
>hit . and a bible and a religion. Walters, a middle man, was paid
>off, like Mark Hoffmann is nowadays.
>
Alexander Neibaur was 8 years old when Napoleon Bonaparte
was exiled and 15 years old when Napoleon died.
Neibauer was 10 years old when you think Ney brought the
Karaite archive to America in 1818 -- and that they had already
been translated by Neibauer.
Since it's *your* theory of history why don't you start by
writing a timeline of events WITH DATES that is at least
plausible for all the characters involved.
You're not so good at remembering dates and details.
Remember that next time you bad-mouth me...
>When the Napoleon hoard was safely hidden as relic under the temple of
>a fast growing sect, Napoleons godson came over and claimed his
>herency.
>He was given a house and land in Utah,a job as private teacher of JS,
>a high ranking in the church and he bred the Mormon archeologists,
>like Neably, who made the worlds biggest smoke screen ever.
>
>Now Retro, we do come to your expertise, there is more at stake than
>only the "Chazar archives": "The Napoleon hoard".
>Drill them out of the cement foundations of the Mormon temple, (in
>America or England ?) you keep the gold and give me a charcoal copy of
>the archives.
>(the Nick Youngh Transcriptions) Deal ?.
Yeah, wait here and I'll go get my pickaxe...
Hey Bret, you wanna join us? Maybe we can get
Darrick to come along to create a diversion.
You bring the briquets.
NickYoungh
wrote:
> Alexander Neibaur was 8 years old when Napoleon Bonaparte
> was exiled and 15 years old when Napoleon died.
It is allways a pleasure to think things over with you, Retro
>
> Neibauer was 10 years old when you think Ney brought the
> Karaite archive to America in 1818 -- and that they had already
> been translated by Neibauer.
Yes, as Karaite Jew, he possibly could read it and write it down in
German at the same time. Bilingual kids do such a things. ( Remenber
the Maya deciphering ?) Why you think Napoleon wanted him to join the
raid ? ( If Mormons not currupted Wikipedia)
Or JS wanted to learn German ?
>
> Since it's *your* theory of history why don't you start by
> writing a timeline of events WITH DATES that is at least
> plausible for all the characters involved.
Actually I made a timeline back in 1984 between real history and the
BoM, but never thought about how these hundreds of matches could be
possible, because the gap between 2 Nephi and Omni is more or less the
same as that between Herodotus and Flavius Josephus. (Bedtime books
around 1830)
> You're not so good at remembering dates and details.
Only now my theory slowly find acception, I suddenly are reluctantly
obliged to come up with an explanation, what was going on in the early
Mormon days.
Most parts of my new sniffing "Napoleon connection" I only know less
than a month.And I really emotionally blame you for it.
> Yeah, wait here and I'll go get my pickaxe...
>
> Hey Bret, you wanna join us? Maybe we can get
> Darrick to come along to create a diversion.
> You bring the briquets
Could I have a say in the guestlist, please, or you want to shy my 4
Mormon students away ?
Nick Youngh.
MORMONS HISTORICAL REVIVAL
http://groups.google.nl/group/the-book-of-mormon-in-the-classical-his...
Bret Ripley
<snip>
>>When the Napoleon hoard was safely hidden as relic under the temple of
>>a fast growing sect, Napoleons godson came over and claimed his
>>herency.
>>He was given a house and land in Utah,a job as private teacher of JS,
>>a high ranking in the church and he bred the Mormon archeologists,
>>like Neably, who made the worlds biggest smoke screen ever.
>>
>>Now Retro, we do come to your expertise, there is more at stake than
>>only the "Chazar archives": "The Napoleon hoard".
>>Drill them out of the cement foundations of the Mormon temple, (in
>>America or England ?) you keep the gold and give me a charcoal copy of
>>the archives.
>>(the Nick Youngh Transcriptions) Deal ?.
>
> Yeah, wait here and I'll go get my pickaxe...
>
> Hey Bret, you wanna join us?
What, join the Quest for the Fabled Lost Archives of the Khazars? Wouldn't
miss it for the world. Ooh, and I'll keep a detailed log of our quest,
with classy sounding chapter-titles like as "Day Two: Chipping away at
foundations", "Day Three: Mormons -- a surprisingly surly bunch", and "Day
Twelve: Typhoid sweeps the camp, we are forced to eat the Sherpas".
> Maybe we can get
> Darrick to come along to create a diversion.
> You bring the briquets.
Waaaaay ahead of you, RP. Since Nick is convinced that the Khazar archive
will translate to the Book of Mormon, I thought I'd save time by starting
the charcoal transcription immediately by simply copying the existing
English text. One thing, though: am I supposed to write /on/ the briquetes
or /with/ them? Because I'm going through wax pencils like crazy.
Bret