Whats "appropriate" in the chapel??
Vincent H.
few of my personal opinions:)
Two days ago, a local young female, 16 I believe, was killed in a tragic
solo car accident. Living in a small community, obviously this affects
many, many people. One of those impacted by this tragedy was the close
friend of this girl, and her mother whom I happen to work with. Today,
the mother explained to me that the daughter had made arrangements with
the deceaseds' family, to play a song called "Missing you" by Brandy at
the services.
Upon hearing of this, the Bishop over the services called the daughter,
and told her that this was innapropriate for the chapel and could not be
allowed, however he advised her that the music would be acceptable at
the graveside service. Unfortunately this caused some friction between
groups, but seems to have been accepted.
Now, this is something I could understand. I think. Obviously, the
chapel is deemed to be sacred by the members, and the playing of top 40
music might be deemed to be "innapropriate" for a variety of reasons.
But what really is interesting is that many bishops feel that guitar,
acoustic that is, is innapropriate for the chapel. While discussing
this tragedy with the member I work with, another person whom I work
with, and who also happens to be a bishop, joined the conversation. (I
live in Utah, in case you havent figured it out:)
Anyways, I asked him about the guitar thing, and as it happened, a
member had asked to play a hymn with the guitar in sacrament meeting,
and he himself had deemed this to be innapropriate, and had explained
this to the member. I had had conversations with others before about
this, but here was a chance to discuss it with the governing party first
hand, and I asked him about it.
He explained that it would be "at the far end of the line", and that in
comparison violins were "ok, but pushing it". When asked what the line
was we were pushing, or what the entity was we were trying to preserve,
or what the entity might be we were trying to avoid, by this type of
discrimination of instruments, was simply answered "I don't know", then
again, "I don't know, its just a feeling". At this point, he began to
look pained, and I let it go.
Ok, I guess what really bothers me is that he could not formulate any
single specific reason why this might be innapropriate. I mean he could
not come up with anything.
Now you can probably guess that I have a bunch of reasons why this
action was taken by this man, and of course it would have to do alot
with "control", "fear", "authoritarianism", etc. etc. You would be
right, I do have those opinions, but I'll save them for another time.
But can any members offer some opinions as to why this happens in many
wards, and why in others it might have been acceptable?????
Vincent H.
R.L. Measures
srlo...@aol.comtenesmus (SRLowther) wrote:
> This is an age old battle between traditionalism and cultural evolution.
> Traditionalism often times is not rational, and often cultural evolutionists
> (who tend to be younger) tend to be insensitive to the feelings of security
> the status quo bestows upon the traditionalists (who tend to be older).
>
> I am 48 years old, and personally get very impatient with people who tell me
> that beards are not appropriate for members of the bishopric (but are
> appropriate for the Savior) and the sacrement must be taken with the right
> hand. .........
€ When he was 17, a friend who was raised in the Church of Christ saw a
painting of Jesus in church and decided that if he was gonna follow Jesus,
he ought to wear his hair the same way. He let his hair grow until it was
like Jesus'. Shortly thereafter he was removed from the Sacrament team
because his hair was too long.
--
- Rich... - 805-386-3734, take away plus from e-mail address
FAWNSCRIBE
say in picking music for the death of a child.If the child made wishes known as
well sometime beforehand then unless it was totally off the wall music then I
feel the family who is doing the grieving, should have their wishes honored.
Fawn
SRLowther
Traditionalism often times is not rational, and often cultural evolutionists
(who tend to be younger) tend to be insensitive to the feelings of security
the status quo bestows upon the traditionalists (who tend to be older).
I am 48 years old, and personally get very impatient with people who tell me
that beards are not appropriate for members of the bishopric (but are
appropriate for the Savior) and the sacrement must be taken with the right
hand. It seems to me too many people fall into the rut of living the gospel
(no matter what their denomination) according to a list of rules and fall short
of the spirit of the gospel which is love.
Hey, anyway I am back after a long absence. And if things don't get too
rancorous, I may drop in more frequently.
_____________________________________________
Steve Lowther
"The fruit of silence is prayer. The fruit of prayer is faith.
The fruit of faith is love. The fruit of love is service.
The fruit of service is peace." -- Mother Theresa
royj...@hotmail.com
"Vincent H." <ven...@infowest.com> wrote:
> Now you can probably guess that I have a bunch of reasons why this
> action was taken by this man, and of course it would have to do alot
> with "control", "fear", "authoritarianism", etc. etc. You would be
> right, I do have those opinions, but I'll save them for another time.
> But can any members offer some opinions as to why this happens in many
> wards, and why in others it might have been acceptable?????
>
> Vincent H.
presidents about acceptable musical instruments in the chapel, and that's all
their is. The specifics are left up to the local leaders to use their
inspiration or judgement to decide what's appropriate. There are some
instruments that are clearly inappropriate, like electic guitar & drums, as
well as others less clear.
I've seen a number of instruments other than piano and organ in musical
numbers over the years, including accoustic guitar & flute.
Roy
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
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lpau...@nas.edu
>
> Ok, I guess what really bothers me is that he could not formulate any
> single specific reason why this might be innapropriate. I mean he could
> not come up with anything.
>
> action was taken by this man, and of course it would have to do alot
> with "control", "fear", "authoritarianism", etc. etc. You would be
> right, I do have those opinions, but I'll save them for another time.
> But can any members offer some opinions as to why this happens in many
> wards, and why in others it might have been acceptable?????
>
> Vincent H.
It's not an LDS thing. It's a church thing. When each of my children was
born, my husband wrote a song for them. Nothing elaborate, just guitar and a
few tracks with a vocal, working the kids' names into the song.
My husband belonged to a fundamentalist bible church at the time. On a
visitation night (must have been Tuesday!), the pastor came by. My husband by
then had written several songs and played them for the pastor. The pastor
almost was translated on the spot. Guitar and 4/4 time are of the devil.
Curiously, when the pastor's daughter was married, the pastor wrote the music
for the ceremony. It was pseudo classical, all on the organ. The organ is
from God.
Regards,
Lee Paulson
**Just think what Mr. Ed's mtDNA nust look like!**
lpau...@nas.edu
royj...@hotmail.com wrote:
> In article <3678818B...@infowest.com>,
> "Vincent H." <ven...@infowest.com> wrote:
> > Now you can probably guess that I have a bunch of reasons why this
> > action was taken by this man, and of course it would have to do alot
> > with "control", "fear", "authoritarianism", etc. etc. You would be
> > right, I do have those opinions, but I'll save them for another time.
> > But can any members offer some opinions as to why this happens in many
> > wards, and why in others it might have been acceptable?????
> >
> > Vincent H.
> presidents about acceptable musical instruments in the chapel, and that's all
> their is. The specifics are left up to the local leaders to use their
> inspiration or judgement to decide what's appropriate. There are some
> instruments that are clearly inappropriate, like electic guitar & drums, as
> well as others less clear.
> I've seen a number of instruments other than piano and organ in musical
> numbers over the years, including accoustic guitar & flute.
>
> Roy
>
royj...@hotmail.com
lpau...@nas.edu wrote:
> Why are electric guitars inappropriate? How about synthesizers?
Not sure of the exact reason. What I heard stated by ward leadership was
that the music should be 'conducive to the spirit'. possible reasons include
the more harsh sounding notes on an electric guitar, or the association of
electric guitars with rock music. I don't recall ever hearing a synthesizer
used in a sacrament meeting either. What I have heard has been accoustic
instruments, accoustic guitar, violin, flute, maybe a couple others.
Roy
R.L. Measures
>......... Guitar and 4/4 time are of the devil.
€ [chortle] Most of the favorite songs sung in churches are in 4/4
time. . In Catholic churches, acoustic guitar and 4/4 time songs are
popular.
>
- later, Lee
Greg
and reverent. Music effects our emotional state, instruments that would
disturb or take away from the quiet reverence are inappropriate.
This is why you will never feel the Spirit of God at a booming tent revival
or anything like it. People will get emotional at these events just like
they do at rock concert -but the Spirit won't be there. -=A=- spirit
might... but not the one from God.
-Greg
Vincent H. wrote in message <3678818B...@infowest.com>...
>Ok, I guess what really bothers me is that he could not formulate any
>single specific reason why this might be innapropriate. I mean he could
>not come up with anything.
>
Paul Dupre
membership (1975 to 1986) there was NEVER a guitar of any sort in any
sacrament meeting I ever attended, either in Massachusetts, Utah or Idaho.
I longed to contribute my talents, to play some Brahms or Bach. My bishop
told me in no uncertain terms "The guitar is not a nice instrument, we'll
have no 'folk masses' in this chapel!". I tried to explain to him that
Brahms translated very "nicely" to the classical guitar, but like most
mormons he was a close-minded hick. It was clear that there was no place
for my talents in the church (though they did let me write a road show once
<cringe>).
royj...@hotmail.com wrote in message <75bg2f$14q$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
mrsg...@webtv.net
friend told me that on Halloween her ward for years has held "trunk or
treat," which if you're like me and didn't know what that is, people
come to the church parking lot, open the trunks of their cars and hand
out goodies to kids. Well, this year it almost didn't happen. Why?
Some people felt it not appropriate to have such an activity in the
sacred parking lot in which a mini temple was being erected in the
corner.
Mrs. Garcia
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
without accepting it." Aristotle
royj...@hotmail.com
"Paul Dupre" <pdu...@semicoa.com> wrote:
> As an ex-mormon and a guitar player, I can tell you that during my
> membership (1975 to 1986) there was NEVER a guitar of any sort in any
> sacrament meeting I ever attended, either in Massachusetts, Utah or Idaho.
> I longed to contribute my talents, to play some Brahms or Bach. My bishop
> told me in no uncertain terms "The guitar is not a nice instrument, we'll
> have no 'folk masses' in this chapel!". I tried to explain to him that
> Brahms translated very "nicely" to the classical guitar, but like most
> mormons he was a close-minded hick. It was clear that there was no place
> for my talents in the church (though they did let me write a road show once
> <cringe>).
Seems like the leadership in the wards or branches you attended were a bit
more conservative. A branch I attended in the 1970's (Goshen, CT), now a
ward, had a couple young women who regularly did accoustic guitar duets in
sacrament meeting. I don't remember guitar specifically in the ward I'm in
now, but other accustic instruments have been used in sacrament meetings. I
guess what it comes down to is the biases/prejudices of your local leaders. I
personally think accoustic guitar with appropriate music does contribute to
the spirit at sacrament metings. Finally, my opinion is Mormons are a bit
more conservative in general than the average American. However, it is a bit
unfair to classify them as close-minded hicks.
Vincent H.
Finally, my opinion is Mormons are a bit
> more conservative in general than the average American. However, it is a bit
> unfair to classify them as close-minded hicks.
> Roy
Well, after living in Utah for some time, and also being one who really
doesn't feel generalization is appropriate nor accurate, I think
"close-minded hicks" is a gross understatement.
I have known some LDS folks who were incredibly open minded,
enlightened, whatever you want to call it, but if I had to go with the
broader sense, and maybe not such a tactful one, "close-minded hicks"
works well for me.
Vincent H.
Vincent Woolf
numbers I remember in church include:
The non-member father of a woman who'd been baptized as a teenager and was now
leaving on a mission played the guitar and sang a song he'd written for her
wishing her well as she left the family for 18 months.
and
A French horn trio playing an arangement of church hymns.
When I was the choir president 5 or 6 years back I read the section in the GHI
on music in church and as well as I can remember there was quite a bit of
leeway given to bishops in selecting music for sacrament meeting. The music
should be in keeping with the spirit, brass and drums were discouraged, but it
was finally left up to the bishop. (Of course my memory could be faulty, plus
I have no idea what the new GHI says.)
(One of my other favorites was a 120 person choir singing some of Handel's
Messiah, but that doesn't sound all that controversial.)
Vincent W.
Paul Dupre <pdu...@semicoa.com> wrote:
>As an ex-mormon and a guitar player, I can tell you that during my
>membership (1975 to 1986) there was NEVER a guitar of any sort in any
>sacrament meeting I ever attended, either in Massachusetts, Utah or Idaho.
>I longed to contribute my talents, to play some Brahms or Bach. My bishop
>told me in no uncertain terms "The guitar is not a nice instrument, we'll
>have no 'folk masses' in this chapel!". I tried to explain to him that
>Brahms translated very "nicely" to the classical guitar, but like most
>mormons he was a close-minded hick. It was clear that there was no place
>for my talents in the church (though they did let me write a road show once
><cringe>).
>
>royj...@hotmail.com wrote
lpau...@nas.edu
"Paul Dupre" <pdu...@semicoa.com> wrote:
> As an ex-mormon and a guitar player, I can tell you that during my
> membership (1975 to 1986) there was NEVER a guitar of any sort in any
> sacrament meeting I ever attended, either in Massachusetts, Utah or Idaho.
> I longed to contribute my talents, to play some Brahms or Bach. My bishop
> told me in no uncertain terms "The guitar is not a nice instrument, we'll
> have no 'folk masses' in this chapel!". I tried to explain to him that
> Brahms translated very "nicely" to the classical guitar, but like most
> mormons he was a close-minded hick. It was clear that there was no place
> for my talents in the church (though they did let me write a road show once
> <cringe>).
Clearly he never heard Charlie Byrd play Christmas music!
Regards,
Lee Paulson
**Just think what Mr. Ed's mtDNA must look like!**
Matthew Williams
<* SNIP *>
> I don't recall ever hearing a synthesizer
> used in a sacrament meeting either.
Many of the branches use synthesizers.
<* SNIP *>
> Roy
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Matt
Jacobugath
>In article <36797...@news.globalpac.com>,
> "Paul Dupre" <pdu...@semicoa.com> wrote:
>> As an ex-mormon and a guitar player, I can tell you that during my
>> membership (1975 to 1986) there was NEVER a guitar of any sort in any
>> sacrament meeting I ever attended, either in Massachusetts, Utah or Idaho.
>> I longed to contribute my talents, to play some Brahms or Bach. My bishop
>> told me in no uncertain terms "The guitar is not a nice instrument, we'll
>> have no 'folk masses' in this chapel!". I tried to explain to him that
>> Brahms translated very "nicely" to the classical guitar, but like most
>> mormons he was a close-minded hick. It was clear that there was no place
>> for my talents in the church (though they did let me write a road show once
>> <cringe>).
>>snip
>
>Clearly he never heard Charlie Byrd play Christmas music!
>
>Regards,
>Lee Paulson
>
The prohibition is in the Hymnal in fact. I can turn O My Father into a real
tear jerker on the Mandolin but Mandos are not welcome in Sacrament.
Jake
"When faith springs up in the heart, good works will follow, and good works
will increase that pure faith within them." Discourses of Brigham Young, 156
Steve O'Neil
have instruments like guitars etc played in sacrament meetings because
for me personally they don't convey a spiritual feeling. That's just
my personal preference though. I really wouldn't see any reason to
stop someone from doing so if they felt it appropriate.
Stephen O'Neil
Webmaster
Unofficial Australian LDS Website
http://www.oneil.com.au/lds/ (new address)
ICQ# - 8677169
bob
srlo...@aol.comtenesmus (SRLowther) wrote:
>
> I am 48 years old, and personally get very impatient with people who tell me
> that beards are not appropriate for members of the bishopric (but are
> appropriate for the Savior) and the sacrement must be taken with the right
> hand.
When exactly did beards fall out of favor? I seem to remember quite a few
Presidents had them (including my favorite: George Albert Smith).
President Hinkley would look really cool in one. Seriously.
Beard Wearer...
Joe Steve Swick III
___SRLowther___
I am 48 years old, and personally get very impatient with people who tell me
that beards are not appropriate for members of the bishopric (but are
appropriate for the Savior) and the sacrement must be taken with the right
hand.
___Bob___
When exactly did beards fall out of favor? I seem to remember quite a few
Presidents had them (including my favorite: George Albert Smith). President
Hinkley would look really cool in one. Seriously.
-----
I've got a full beard that I wouldn't trade for a spot in a Bishopric for
anything! <VBG>
No one has given me any flak about it at Church... I suppose because I LOOK
like I should wear a beard.
Beard Wearer Jr.