Response to Steven Pinker's "The Mystery of Consciousness"
Catalogue-book of Uncleannesses
column entitled "The Mystery of Consciousness."
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1580394-1,00.html
My letter never got printed, so I am unloading it on you all. Just more
of the same Tagutcow-brand sweetness and light.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Does Steven Pinker *really* think that human cruelty originates from a
"denial of other people's sentience", or were the concluding paragraphs
of his essay merely a clumsy attempt to tie a pretty bow on a subject
matter that refuses to have pretty bows tied to it? If the former, he
might ask himself the question of why anybody would waste time torturing
a stalk of corn, or anything else they knew to be insentient; if the
latter, he would only be one of many thinkers throughout history who
tried and failed to extract anything of human value from a denial of
free will.
After telling us as a certainty that the singular, volitional self is
an illusion- an after-the-fact rationalization the brain constructs
around whatever neural imulses hiccup to foreground- he concludes by
telling us that he feels "the biology of consciousness offers a sounder
basis for morality than the dogma of an immortal soul." How can you end
with a call for heightened moral responsibility when you begin by
atomizing the seat of moral agency?
No assurance of any sounder basis for morality was ever required for
science to continue its plow forward, of course, and it is fine if
Steven Pinker thinks a belief in an afterlife is just wishful thinking,
so long as he acknowledges some wishful thinking on his own part. Even
the most assured naturalists show a tinge of hesitancy in following
their premises to their own logical conclusions.
--
robert caponi | I'm the banana boy
MAIL mailto:tagu...@earthlink.net | I'M FIERCE!
DUMB http://www.myspace.com/tagutcow | I'm the banana boy
SMRT http://home.earthlink.net/~tagutcow/ | WOOooOOoooO!
Jacob W. Haller
> If the former, he might ask himself the question of why anybody would
> waste time torturing a stalk of corn, or anything else they knew to be
> insentient;
Yeah, nobody ever breaks off a stalk of corn's reproductive organs,
grinds them into a fine paste, cooks them, and eats them.
-jwgh
--
"Only in America could something like that not happen in America."
-- Matt McIrvin, 29 November 2005
Kevin S. Wilson
wrote:
>Catalogue-book of Uncleannesses <tagu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> If the former, he might ask himself the question of why anybody would
>> waste time torturing a stalk of corn, or anything else they knew to be
>> insentient;
>
>Yeah, nobody ever breaks off a stalk of corn's reproductive organs,
>grinds them into a fine paste, cooks them, and eats them.
>
We would stop if they would just TALK!
Stand-up guys, though, you gotta admit.
David DeLaney
>Catalogue-book of Uncleannesses <tagu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> If the former, he might ask himself the question of why anybody would
>> waste time torturing a stalk of corn, or anything else they knew to be
>> insentient;
>
>Yeah, nobody ever breaks off a stalk of corn's reproductive organs,
>grinds them into a fine paste, cooks them, and eats them.
Well ... very few do it with the intention of -torturing the original corn-.
For most of them the torture's just a side effect.
Dave "orville redenbacher: cereal torture promoter, or just misunderstood?"
DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Jacob W. Haller
> Jacob W. Haller <yo...@jwgh.org> wrote:
> >Catalogue-book of Uncleannesses <tagu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> If the former, he might ask himself the question of why anybody would
> >> waste time torturing a stalk of corn, or anything else they knew to be
> >> insentient;
> >
> >Yeah, nobody ever breaks off a stalk of corn's reproductive organs,
> >grinds them into a fine paste, cooks them, and eats them.
>
> Well ... very few do it with the intention of -torturing the original corn-.
I see, so doing it for sport is morally OK? I don't think so.
Anyway, you have to suspect the motives of someone who claims not to
enjoy torturing plants, but then takes a job doing exactly that.
Otto Bahn
Whether or not "I" am a pigment of my own hallucination
is a pointless question, though perhaps angst ridden folks
could benefit from the thought that they aren't really real.
--oTTo--
bar...@bookpro.com
wrote:
>David DeLaney <d...@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote:
>
>> Jacob W. Haller <yo...@jwgh.org> wrote:
>> >Catalogue-book of Uncleannesses <tagu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >> If the former, he might ask himself the question of why anybody would
>> >> waste time torturing a stalk of corn, or anything else they knew to be
>> >> insentient;
>> >
>> >Yeah, nobody ever breaks off a stalk of corn's reproductive organs,
>> >grinds them into a fine paste, cooks them, and eats them.
>>
>> Well ... very few do it with the intention of -torturing the original corn-.
>
>I see, so doing it for sport is morally OK? I don't think so.
>
>Anyway, you have to suspect the motives of someone who claims not to
>enjoy torturing plants, but then takes a job doing exactly that.
I'm sure this person took the job so that the torture is not done by
someone who *does* enjoy it.
BW
bar...@bookpro.com
We are all Red Shirts in an episode of "Star Trek" that was never
aired.
BW
Otto Bahn
> >I argue the right to life is self-evident.
> >
> >Whether or not "I" am a pigment of my own hallucination
> >is a pointless question, though perhaps angst ridden folks
> >could benefit from the thought that they aren't really real.
>
> We are all Red Shirts in an episode of "Star Trek" that was never
> aired.
And painfully aware of our own mortality.
--oTTo--
Tomorrow is one less day of what's left of your life
Glenn Knickerbocker
> We are all Red Shirts in an episode of "Star Trek" that was never
> aired.
BEST Austin Lounge Lizards "Bonfire of the Inanities" paraphrase EVAR!
We're insignificant, baby, and we just think it's great.
ŹR
TeaLady (Mari C.)
@gargoyle.oit.duke.edu:
If you aren't sure you are real, drop a concrete block on your
foot.
If you don't feel any pain, you aren't real.
--
TeaLady (mari)
RIP Tess ?/?/1995 - 2/5/2007
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/161/361148629_1934e4160e_m.jpg
Wiblur the Once
> If you aren't sure you are real, drop a concrete block on your
> foot.
>
> If you don't feel any pain, you aren't real.
I beg to differentiate.
Along with the other lovely gifts my diabetes has given me, I have no
feeling in my feet. twice now, I have stepped on screws that have embedded
themselves in my shoe in stealth mode, allowing me to walk around for
several hours both times creating lovely wounds that required many visits
to the podiatrist before they would heal properly without danger of going
all gangreen and stuff.
Does that mean that "I don't feel, therefore I ain't"?
--
"...The job is to seek mystery, evoke mystery, plant a garden in which
strange plants grow and mysteries bloom. The need for mystery is greater
than the need for an answer." - Ken Kesey
http://www.wiblovia.com - The Wiblovian Institute of Kibology
Terri
news:Xns98D1C6CD5553A...@216.196.97.136:
> "TeaLady (Mari C.)" <spres...@yahoo.com> mumbled something about::
>
>> If you aren't sure you are real, drop a concrete block on your
>> foot.
>>
>> If you don't feel any pain, you aren't real.
>
> I beg to differentiate.
>
> Along with the other lovely gifts my diabetes has given me, I have no
> feeling in my feet. twice now, I have stepped on screws that have
> embedded themselves in my shoe in stealth mode, allowing me to walk
> around for several hours both times creating lovely wounds that required
> many visits to the podiatrist before they would heal properly without
> danger of going all gangreen and stuff.
>
> Does that mean that "I don't feel, therefore I ain't"?
>
No, it just means I was right about you becoming a Harkonen Borg when
you first got that heart plug.
Stacia
>"TeaLady (Mari C.)" <spres...@yahoo.com> mumbled something about::
>> If you aren't sure you are real, drop a concrete block on your
>> foot.
>>
>> If you don't feel any pain, you aren't real.
>I beg to differentiate.
Hey now, math jokes go in that other thread, not this one. Please
keep the math jokes carefully arranged and orderly, or we won't be able
to allow them on Usenet anymore.
Stacia
David DeLaney
You do know that if we discover a well-ordering for the math jokes, we'll
have disproved one of the axioms of Usenet?
Dave "in every set of math jokes, it SHOULD be possible to discover a least-
funny element, but so far we lose more math grad students that way" DeLaney
Mark Edwards
No cluons were harmed when Stacia wrote:
> Hey now, math jokes go in that other thread, not this one.
>Please keep the math jokes carefully arranged and
>orderly, or we won't be able to allow them on Usenet anymore.
And no telling math jokes on the way to work, unless they have commutative
properties.
Mark Edwards
--
Proof of Sanity Forged Upon Request
Chris McGonnell
Most logical, Barbara -- for a GURL!
--
Chris McG.
Harming humanity since 1951.
"My dog ate my gratitude journal." -- Paula
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Chris McGonnell
<snip being or nothingness>
>Does that mean that "I don't feel, therefore I ain't"?
Feelings -- nothing more than feelings ...
Otto Bahn
> > Hey now, math jokes go in that other thread, not this one.
> >Please keep the math jokes carefully arranged and
> >orderly, or we won't be able to allow them on Usenet anymore.
>
> And no telling math jokes on the way to work, unless they have commutative
> properties.
BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM!
--oTTo--
TeaLady (Mari C.)
> "TeaLady (Mari C.)" <spres...@yahoo.com> mumbled
> something about::
>
>> If you aren't sure you are real, drop a concrete block on
>> your foot.
>>
>> If you don't feel any pain, you aren't real.
>
> I beg to differentiate.
>
> Along with the other lovely gifts my diabetes has given me,
> I have no feeling in my feet. twice now, I have stepped on
> screws that have embedded themselves in my shoe in stealth
> mode, allowing me to walk around for several hours both
> times creating lovely wounds that required many visits to
> the podiatrist before they would heal properly without
> danger of going all gangreen and stuff.
>
> Does that mean that "I don't feel, therefore I ain't"?
>
You, sir, -may- be an exception.
You are more likely a figment of my imagination.
--
Tea"as are the rest of you"Lady (mari)
TeaLady (Mari C.)
> "TeaLady (Mari C.)" <spres...@yahoo.com> mumbled
> something about::
>
>> If you aren't sure you are real, drop a concrete block on
>> your foot.
>>
>> If you don't feel any pain, you aren't real.
>
> I beg to differentiate.
>
> Along with the other lovely gifts my diabetes has given me,
> I have no feeling in my feet. twice now, I have stepped on
> screws that have embedded themselves in my shoe in stealth
> mode, allowing me to walk around for several hours both
> times creating lovely wounds that required many visits to
> the podiatrist before they would heal properly without
> danger of going all gangreen and stuff.
>
> Does that mean that "I don't feel, therefore I ain't"?
>
Plus, also, pokey sharp things in the feet aren't the same as
dropping a concrete block on them.
--
Tea"I forgot that one"Lady (mari)
bar...@bookpro.com
<smea...@notthisverizon.net> wrote:
>On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 13:27:10 -0500, barbara wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 8 Feb 2007 13:07:52 -0500, "Otto Bahn" <e...@eio.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I argue the right to life is self-evident.
>>>
>>>Whether or not "I" am a pigment of my own hallucination
>>>is a pointless question, though perhaps angst ridden folks
>>>could benefit from the thought that they aren't really real.
>>
>>We are all Red Shirts in an episode of "Star Trek" that was never
>>aired.
>
>Most logical, Barbara -- for a GURL!
Oh, right--I'm a gurl! That means I'm not a Red Shirt. I'm a
Miniskirt, and Miniskirts are never killed. Yay, me!
BW
Marc Goodman
> Oh, right--I'm a gurl! That means I'm not a Red Shirt. I'm a
> Miniskirt, and Miniskirts are never killed. Yay, me!
Wasn't there that episode where the aliens turned everyone into
little blocks of styrofoam, and one of the aliens turned a
redskirt and a redshirt into cubes and crumbled one of them?
And then Scotty got really drunk. I seem to recall that the
redskirt bought it that time.
bar...@bookpro.com
Leave me my illusions, damn you!!
BW
Fred of UrlBit.Us
Yes, the red skirt got crunched. Ouch.
StarTrek -- your Equal Opportunity to be Crunched as a Redshirt or a
Redskirt.
--
-- Fred of UrlBit.Us
-- http://UrlBit.Us - Bite those URLs down to size!
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Kevin S. Wilson
Did you really think you could post something like that in ARK and not
have some nerdy bozo dash your illusions? I mean, they're going to be
all over that "Star Wars" stuff like white on rice.
bar...@bookpro.com
wrote:
She isn't white, she just tries to act like it.
BW
Marc Goodman
My Nerd Fu is more outrageously powerful than you can ever
imagine.
Matthew L. Martin
IFYPFY
Matthew
--
I'm a contractor. If you want an opinion I'll sell you one.
Which one do you want?
David DeLaney
>Kevin S. Wilson wrote:
>> Did you really think you could post something like that in ARK and not
>> have some nerdy bozo dash your illusions? I mean, they're going to be
>> all over that "Star Wars" stuff like white on rice.
>
>My Nerd Fu is more outrageously powerful than you can ever imagine.
I'm "striking you down" RIGHT NOW!
Dave "if you 'kno' whut i 'meen'" DeLaney