Monsters (not Inc.)

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Dean Lenort

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Nov 29, 2001, 11:15:27 PM11/29/01
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So before I get too much older and my poor memory completely loses all
details why don't I go ahead and tell you folks about my TRUE story of a
monster.

The family had gone out to the Njos' farm for an afternoon where the adults
would sit around and talk while the kids entertained themselves in what I'm
sure the parents hoped would be a non-destructive manner. On this
particular occasion the year would be somewhere in the very early '70s as I
seem to recall being somewhere in the 6 to 8 year old range at the time.

The Njos' lived just a few miles east of town just off highway 30 where it
takes that first big bend before it loops back and heads off towards
Hayfield (catchy name for a town, ain't it?). The farm wasn't a very big
place with just a house, a few of the standard outbuildings and the
ubiquitous barn that wasn't being used for barn type things. There was
also a small wooded area on the west side of the farm that wasn't any more
than an acre or two in size.

The Njos family contained a fair number of kids including one boy the same
age as me, Jerry. We got along okay as youngins but drifted apart in our
later years of schooling for whatever reason, but at the time we got along
pretty well and would do our best to keep ourselves entertained when our
folks got together.

On this particular day Jerry and I were walking down the 'road' that was on
the south side of the wooded area, doing whatever it is that kids do on
occasions like this. It probably involved throwing rocks with the hope of
breaking something, not that I have a recollection of throwing rocks on
this occasion, it's just a kid-type thing to do.

The one clear memory I have of that day is what occurred next. Jerry and I
heard something, turned and looked at the trees, and saw a large, white,
hairy, bipedal animal of some kind moving branches out of the way and
coming towards us. This not being a teen slasher flick but rather the real
world we ran like hell back in to the house, up the stairs and into a
bedroom where we hid under a bed. (Oh, like you would have acted any
differently at that age.) After we were coaxed out of our hidey-hole and
the reason for our flight was dragged out of us a few of the men-folk went
out to see what they could find but didn't turn up anything.

Over the years I decided that this whole episode must have been cooked up
by my imagination as only kooks and under medicated whackos see monsters on
small farms in the middle of nowhere. But just for the heck of it at a
high school class reunion a few years ago I asked Jerry if he remembered
the monster incident. And you know what? He remembered it pretty much as
I did and I believe he also said something about how he had almost
convinced himself that his memory had just been playing tricks on him too.
(Give me a break here. It was late in the reunion when I finally decided
to ask him about this and there had already been a fair amount of beer
consumed.)

Sure, it may have just been somebody screwing with our young minds, but
it's been about 30 years now and it's about time the prankster stepped
forward and admitted the joke.

This is the part where I'd normally say something about us both being
lobsters but what with this being a true story and all I thought I'd leave
that part out just this once.
--
Dean Lenort | Personally, I think of first-order predicate
dean....@att.net | calculus (FOPC) as a large fluffy bunny called
| Fopsy with long ears. - John D. Salt

Tamara

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Nov 30, 2001, 8:53:37 AM11/30/01
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"Dean Lenort" <dean....@att.net> wrote in message
news:jv1e0ukeqiegbmigl...@4ax.com...

> So before I get too much older and my poor memory completely loses all
> details why don't I go ahead and tell you folks about my TRUE story of a
> monster.

<snip of Dean's spooky monster story>

I have my own monster story and over the years I have thought that most of
it was made up by my silly brane but it can't be so because I have recently
talked to 3 other people who witnessed it.

Back when I was about 12, this kid who lived a few doors down started
complaining about strange stuff happening in his home. Stuff that included
"hot" and "cold" areas and things that go "bump" in the night. We all
pointed and went HAW HAW! This went on for years and the kid, Mitchell, got
weirder and weirder as the time went on.

Soon we were attending the same high school. Mitchell hung out with the
tough crowd and I basically avoided people at all costs. I still visited
him since he only lived 3 doors away. On several occasions, I would wake up
in the morning to find Mitchell sleeping on my mother's couch (his parents
travelled overseas a lot so he was often home alone) and I would ask my mum
what was going on and she would say that Mitchell saw the "ghost" again. Of
course this prompted me to point and go HAW HAW!

One evening, Mitchell phoned and said he was trapped in his third-floor room
and that he needed help to get out because the bad ghost was scaring the
crap out of him. Instead of laughing, this time I went out to his house to
attempt a "search and rescue" operation. He tossed his keys out of the
window and a few people in the neighbourhood gathered to assist. We went
into the house with nothing but a flashlight and when we got up to the
landing on the stairs, the flashlight went out. Well that was enough for
me. I think we stranded the poor guy there that night.

On another occasion, I was walking home and I saw one of the high-school
bullies sitting on Mitchell's front porch. For some reason, he decided to
talk to me. He was crying. I asked what was wrong and he said something
like "I'm never going into that fucking house again!"

Mitchell's parents called in priests, psychic people, psychologists,
doctors...everyone...to help "cure" him of this strange illness. Nothing
worked. Things thumped, doors slammed, lights went out...but nobody
believed him.

One day on the way to school, I stopped by so that we could walk together.
I was waiting for him in the dining room when suddenly the china cabinet
started rattling. And rattling. AND RATTLING!! My first thought was that
a large truck went past but no. It rattled for a good minute and Mitchell
came flying down the stairs and yelled at me to get out. We were on the
next block before we even put our shoes on.

Many years later, when we were in our twenties, I got a call from a local
teevee talk show asking if I would attend to talk about what happened with
Mitchell all of those years. I agreed and my ex-husband and I went, plus
that big tough guy from high school and a few other people who had witnessed
strange things in that house and everyone was faced with a panel of
"experts" who basically said that Mitchell was causing all of this to happen
by himself. Kind of like a poltergeist thing.

It never was resolved. Mitchell is now 39 years old and still lives in that
house. Strange shit still happens. Nobody knows why.

As an aside, I can remember walking past that house with a college friend
and my friend said "that place gives me the creeps." He didn't know the
story so that's what made it even more eerie.

It was only about a week ago that I talked to three people who went through
this whole ordeal with Mitchell and neither of them can make any sense out
of it. We can't explain it. We just know it happened.

~T


Talysman the Ur-Beatle

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Nov 30, 2001, 12:33:50 PM11/30/01
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Dean Lenort <dean....@att.net> wrote in message news:<jv1e0ukeqiegbmigl...@4ax.com>...
> So before I get too much older and my poor memory completely loses all
> details why don't I go ahead and tell you folks about my TRUE story of a
> monster.

[ ... ]

> Sure, it may have just been somebody screwing with our young minds, but
> it's been about 30 years now and it's about time the prankster stepped
> forward and admitted the joke.

you HOPE.

http://members.tripod.com/jeffholland/feral.html

-> When he peered out the front door, he saw a white, hairy creature
-> with pink eyes that must have weighed about 400 pounds and was
-> about 7 feet tall.

http://www.unsolvedmysteries.com/usm179545.html

-> THE 'HAIRY GHOST' OF COSNER LAKE,ALBANY, OREGON
-> A 7 foot tall, white-haired creature, with webbed feet was first
-> reported here in 1958.

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/CNTS/OH/JF/oh_jf001.htm

-> OBSERVED: Two large white hairy creatures. The creatures where
-> larger than man, both in build and height. The creatures were
-> carrying a item which appeared to be the size of a pickup truck's
-> bed. They were carrying the object over a hill towards a pond.
-> When we stopped to observe, they dropped the item they were
-> carrying and fell to the ground. The creatures tried to hide in
-> the bush without success.

that's kentucky, oregon, and ohio, so far. I take it your sighting
was in minnesota:

http://www.citypages.com/databank/21/1035/article9026.asp

this article includes an interview with the author of "The Sasquatch
in Minnesota".

to top it all off:

http://www.yesterdayland.com/popopedia/memories/show_mem.php?ID=SA1016

Dean Lenort

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Nov 30, 2001, 4:56:21 PM11/30/01
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On 30 Nov 2001, taly...@globalsurrealism.com (Talysman the Ur-Beatle)
beabled:

> Dean Lenort <dean....@att.net> wrote in message news:<jv1e0ukeqiegbmigl...@4ax.com>...
> > So before I get too much older and my poor memory completely loses all
> > details why don't I go ahead and tell you folks about my TRUE story of a
> > monster.

> [snip stories of other sightings of white hairy beasts that Herr Ur-Beatle
> was generous enough to find]

Ah, but the important difference here is that those people are k00ks while
I am SANE. Heck, it's printed right here on my hand. SANE. And not only
do I have the hand stamp (which allows me to get back into SANE without
having to pay cover again) but you could pratically call me Wonko I'm just
so gol dang SANE.

> that's kentucky, oregon, and ohio, so far. I take it your sighting
> was in minnesota:

^^^^^^^^^ DING DING DING DING!

I don't know why doing a search for the appropriate terms didn't occur to
me, what with me being SANE and all, but for whatever reason I never
bothered to look for any of this stuff. Thanks Ur-Beatle!
--
Dean Lenort | I think someone needs to graph these results so we
| can find out if connecting the dots makes a kitty
| or a turtle. -- K.

Dean Lenort

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Nov 30, 2001, 4:56:22 PM11/30/01
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On Fri, 30 Nov 2001, "Tamara" <tamara...@sprint.ca> beabled:

> Back when I was about 12, this kid who lived a few doors down started
> complaining about strange stuff happening in his home. Stuff that included
> "hot" and "cold" areas and things that go "bump" in the night. We all
> pointed and went HAW HAW! This went on for years and the kid, Mitchell, got
> weirder and weirder as the time went on.

<snip interesting details of numerous paranormal manifestations involving
Tamara's old neighbor, Mitchell>

Well someone's got to say it.

That's just the spirits of all those people that saw a certain Joe Don
Baker movie trying to exact revenge from the great beyond. When you
consider that anyone who actually saw the movie was probably a few bats
short of a full belfry, it's not surprising that these angry spirits are
bothering the wrong person.
--
Dean Lenort | Do you still hear the bleating of the
dean....@att.net | reindeer, Clarice? - Jeremy Impson

Jeremy Impson

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Nov 30, 2001, 5:17:04 PM11/30/01
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On Fri, 30 Nov 2001, Dean Lenort wrote:


> --
> Dean Lenort | Do you still hear the bleating of the
> dean....@att.net | reindeer, Clarice? - Jeremy Impson

I got .sig quoted! YaY!! However, I'm still a bit concerned that the
paraphrase is a bit wonky. I searched about a bit on the 'Net (have you
heard of the 'Net?), but came up with nothing. Oh well.

--Jeremy

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeremy Impson
http://nwc.syr.edu/~jdimpson

Talysman the Ur-Beatle

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Dec 1, 2001, 12:33:22 AM12/1/01
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Dean Lenort <dean....@att.net> wrote in message news:<o2vf0u4djs0aftghs...@4ax.com>...

> > [snip stories of other sightings of white hairy beasts that Herr Ur-Beatle
> > was generous enough to find]
>
> Ah, but the important difference here is that those people are k00ks while
> I am SANE.

you BASTARD!!! I mean, ha ha, yes, they are kooks.

> I don't know why doing a search for the appropriate terms didn't occur to
> me, what with me being SANE and all, but for whatever reason I never
> bothered to look for any of this stuff. Thanks Ur-Beatle!

YOU'REwardsWELCOME

it occurred to me, of course, because I have always been
interested in fringe stuff like this. I saw both the Sun
Pictures "Bigfoot" film -- *in* the theaters, *when* it
was released -- and one or more of those "bogey creek"
movies. and possibly 90% of the "in search of" episodes.

and also, I learned about ananova.com from the fortean
times website.

so when you said "big, white, hairy bipedal monster", I
didn't find it unusual in the slightest. just familiar.

for my next trick, I will discuss the complete history
of monkey-man, including his victorian london incarnation
as springheel jack.

I may also mention the talking mongoose poltergeist, so
everyone TAKE COVER!

Jeremy Impson

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Dec 1, 2001, 2:37:07 AM12/1/01
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On 30 Nov 2001, Talysman the Ur-Beatle wrote:

> I may also mention the talking mongoose poltergeist, so
> everyone TAKE COVER!

I read that as "talking mongoose proletariat". lcrl will now make a joke
about it.

Dag Right-square-bracket-gren

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Dec 4, 2001, 6:17:36 PM12/4/01
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Tamara <tamara...@sprint.ca> wrote:

> "Dean Lenort" <dean....@att.net> wrote in message
> news:jv1e0ukeqiegbmigl...@4ax.com...

> <snip of Dean's spooky monster story>

<and also snip Tamara's spooky house story>

Yaaay this thread! This is great stuff.

Lately, especially since I've been cultivating some ideas about writing,
I've become very interested in folklore. And both your stories work very
well as modern-day folklore. And I just love spooky stories.

I'm in a funny position where I really enjoy stories of the fantastic and
supernatural, yet I do not believe in them in the least. I would agree,
regarding Tamara's story, with that panel of experts - the kid probably
caused all of it himself, whether he was conscious of it or not. But that
just adds to the story, really.

Yaaay this thread! More of this!

--
Dag Agren <> d...@c3.cx <> http://www.abo.fi/~dagren/ <> Legalize oregano
The time is nigh / I dreamed a lake
It's greek to me / Your pants are down

Leo Sgouros

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Dec 4, 2001, 6:45:43 PM12/4/01
to

"Dag Right-square-bracket-gren" <d...@c3.cx> wrote in message
news:3c0d5990$0$1...@news.impulse.net...

> Tamara <tamara...@sprint.ca> wrote:
>
> > "Dean Lenort" <dean....@att.net> wrote in message
> > news:jv1e0ukeqiegbmigl...@4ax.com...
>
> > <snip of Dean's spooky monster story>
>
> <and also snip Tamara's spooky house story>
>
> Yaaay this thread! This is great stuff.

LOL TWO THUMBS UP this thread!!1111!!

>
> Lately, especially since I've been cultivating some ideas about writing,
> I've become very interested in folklore. And both your stories work very
> well as modern-day folklore. And I just love spooky stories.


Interesting!Lately I, too, have been cultivating ideas about writing!I've
become very interested in other peoples writings!And you're story about some
skeptic that doesnt believe in what the writer is writing about and claims
to love spooky stories while steadfastly disbelieving in them is A-OK IN MY
BOOK!I STRONGLY SUPPORT YOUR RIGHT TO CONTINUE PRESENTING MATERIAL THAT I
CAN SUBTLY CALL YOU A BOZO WITH!!!!


>
> I'm in a funny position where I really enjoy stories of the fantastic and
> supernatural, yet I do not believe in them in the least.

My , THAT IS FUNNY!And I bet you cant write about them either and wait like
a frikken shark to pounce on them and take their story and call them a right
wanker and pratt!


> I would agree,
> regarding Tamara's story, with that panel of experts - the kid probably
> caused all of it himself, whether he was conscious of it or not. But that
> just adds to the story, really.
>
> Yaaay this thread! More of this!
>

HURRAY!
MORE I DEFEND TO THE DEATH THE RIGHT TO HAVE YOU AROUND TO POKE FUN AT 24-7
POASTS!!111

"MORE OF THIS!"

-L.


Dean Lenort

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Dec 4, 2001, 7:44:52 PM12/4/01
to
On 04 Dec 2001, Dag Right-square-bracket-gren <d...@c3.cx> beabled:

> Tamara <tamara...@sprint.ca> wrote:
>
> > "Dean Lenort" <dean....@att.net> wrote in message
> > news:jv1e0ukeqiegbmigl...@4ax.com...
>
> > <snip of Dean's spooky monster story>
>
> <and also snip Tamara's spooky house story>
>

> I'm in a funny position where I really enjoy stories of the fantastic and
> supernatural, yet I do not believe in them in the least. I would agree,
> regarding Tamara's story, with that panel of experts - the kid probably
> caused all of it himself, whether he was conscious of it or not. But that
> just adds to the story, really.

I'm pretty much in the same boat in that it's my firm belief that most of
the stuff of the supernatural that you read about or see on TV is the
product of scam artists and k00ks. The thing is, I didn't make my story up
and I also believe what Tamara wrote about that Mitchell dqqd. Whether he
somehow unknowingly caused the effects or not is immaterial, it's still a
pretty spooky situation.

To balance things back out I'm going to go pick up a copy of the Weekly
World News where I can be assured that all of the stories are bogus.
--
Dean Lenort | I SAW THIS ONE SPIDER THAT GOT BITTEN BY A
dean....@att.net | RADIOACTIVE SPIDER AND THE SPIDER GOT SPIDER POWERS!
| - Ranjit Bhatnagar

Paradigm Fert

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Dec 5, 2001, 1:35:53 AM12/5/01
to
Dag Right-square-bracket-gren <d...@c3.cx> wrote

> Tamara <tamara...@sprint.ca> wrote:
>
> > "Dean Lenort" <dean....@att.net> wrote in message
>
> > <snip of Dean's spooky monster story>
>
> <and also snip Tamara's spooky house story>
>
> Yaaay this thread! This is great stuff.
>
> Lately, especially since I've been cultivating some ideas about writing,
> I've become very interested in folklore. And both your stories work very
> well as modern-day folklore. And I just love spooky stories.

KEEP IT IN ALT.FLOKLORE.URBRANE, FOOL!!!

> I'm in a funny position where I really enjoy stories of the fantastic and
> supernatural, yet I do not believe in them in the least.

Do you believe in Light Sabers and exploding planets? Do you still
enjoy Star Wars? See, it's not such a funny position at all.

> Yaaay this thread! More of this!

Indeed.

--
Paradigm Fert

Glenn Knickerbocker

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Dec 5, 2001, 2:32:47 AM12/5/01
to
On 04 Dec 2001 23:17:36 GMT, Dag Right-square-bracket-gren <d...@c3.cx>
wrote:

>I've become very interested in folklore. And both your stories work very
>well as modern-day folklore. And I just love spooky stories.

My story is not folklore, only mildly spooky, and supernatural just to
the extent of being unconcerned with scientific investigation.
http://users.bestweb.net/~notr/transit.html

Lots42

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Dec 5, 2001, 9:07:28 AM12/5/01
to
>From: Dean Lenort dean....@att.net

>I'm pretty much in the same boat in that it's my firm belief that most of
>the stuff of the supernatural that you read about or see on TV is the
>product of scam artists and k00ks.

On the TV show Angel they had a kid with an eyeball in the back of her head and
it was removed by a spell but they weren't paid because the kid's dad thought
it was all a scam, since no one could get eyeballs in the back of their head.
--
- "When life gives you lemonades, activate the death robot."

Matt McIrvin

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Dec 5, 2001, 6:58:19 PM12/5/01
to
In article <4pqq0uk371a2qiilc...@4ax.com>,
Dean Lenort <dean....@att.net> wrote:

> I'm pretty much in the same boat in that it's my firm belief that most of
> the stuff of the supernatural that you read about or see on TV is the
> product of scam artists and k00ks. The thing is, I didn't make my story up
> and I also believe what Tamara wrote about that Mitchell dqqd. Whether he
> somehow unknowingly caused the effects or not is immaterial, it's still a
> pretty spooky situation.

The big problem with discussions of such events is that, usually, an
expression of skepticism gets interpreted as implying that the claimant
is lying or crazy, so the whole thing devolves into trading of insults.
Read sci.skeptic at any time for examples (well, last time I read it,
the whole group had been taken over by a couple of Holocaust deniers
and a hundred people shouting at them, so maybe not).

The fact is that mentally healthy people see things that aren't there,
or that are not what they seem to be, *all the time*. And, of course,
every so often somebody discovers something that is genuinely outside
the realm of known experience, though this is rare.

--
Matt McIrvin

b r e t t

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Dec 6, 2001, 1:32:38 AM12/6/01
to
Therefore I will happily relay my very own paranormal experience.
Note firstly that I do not believe our planet has ever been
visited by beings from another solar system, and that I don't
believe such a visitation would be accomplished in a saucer-
shaped craft in any case. So:

When I was nine years old I saw a flying saucer.

As a kid, I was looking for UFOs all the time. And I saw plenty
of things that I *wanted* to be UFOs, but weren't (the lights
in the sky always turned out to be just the same colors as the
lights used by aircraft). But then? One time? I saw this OTHER
thing?

OK, what I saw was a disc flying quite low over Chino, California,
just a few minutes after sunset, on a cloudless day. I won't say
how low or how big it was, but if I put my hand up at arm's length,
it covered an area about the size of my palm. I could see the
texture of the underside, which was metallic, and had the lustre
of an old penny (some redness was likely coming from the sunset).
It was also rotating very slowly, perhaps once every three seconds.
It had no lights, no features beyond the texture of the surface,
and made no sound. The way it reflected the light made it obvious
that it was disc-shaped (not a sphere). It flew overhead, going west,
at a rate which seemed much too slow for an airplane, given how
close to the ground it appeared to be.

I haven't thought about it in years. And I have no idea what it was,
other than a slow, low-flying, rotating metallic disc. Neither Jesse
Ventura nor Alex Trebek showed up to tell me I saw Venus. I still do
not believe in alien visitors, or Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster, or
El Chupacabra. But once I definitely saw something in the sky that I
still don't understand.


b
--
A few years later, I discovered girls, so I've lots of things I don't
understand right in front of me since then. Girls. Kierkegaard. ASIO
drivers. But the sky has pretty much behaved itself since I was nine.

Brack!

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Dec 7, 2001, 12:33:38 AM12/7/01
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On Thu, 06 Dec 2001 06:32:38 GMT, b...@chiba.3jane.net (b r e t t) wrote:

>OK, what I saw was a disc flying quite low over Chino, California,
>just a few minutes after sunset, on a cloudless day. I won't say
>how low or how big it was, but if I put my hand up at arm's length,
>it covered an area about the size of my palm. I could see the
>texture of the underside, which was metallic, and had the lustre
>of an old penny (some redness was likely coming from the sunset).
>It was also rotating very slowly, perhaps once every three seconds.
>It had no lights, no features beyond the texture of the surface,
>and made no sound. The way it reflected the light made it obvious
>that it was disc-shaped (not a sphere). It flew overhead, going west,
>at a rate which seemed much too slow for an airplane, given how
>close to the ground it appeared to be.
>
>I haven't thought about it in years. And I have no idea what it was,
>other than a slow, low-flying, rotating metallic disc. Neither Jesse
>Ventura nor Alex Trebek showed up to tell me I saw Venus. I still do
>not believe in alien visitors, or Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster, or
>El Chupacabra. But once I definitely saw something in the sky that I
>still don't understand.

Ah. Well, at least you werent an annoying little 7 year old who'd just
been given his first 'Big Book of UFOs' and for the next several
months, proceeded to annoy the living bajeezus out of his parents by
claiming to have seen UFOS everywhere (I did! or at least, I beleive
that my 7 year old self believed that he saw *something*, most likely
lights from repeated blows to the head)

Then they gave me the 'Big Book of Ghosts' and I spent the next
several months quivering in mortal terror and hiding under my blanket
of ghost repelling +3 at nights. At least they got to sleep. yay!

These people really love spam | ___
<root@[127.0.0.1]> | / \
<MAILER-DAEMON@[127.0.0.1]> | __(@)(@)|
<abuse@[127.0.0.1]> | (_____ /
pres...@whitehouse.gov | )(
<.@[127.0.0.1]> UNSUBSCRIBE | Ducky watches you!

Nick Bensema

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Dec 6, 2001, 1:10:46 PM12/6/01
to
In article <3c0d5990$0$1...@news.impulse.net>,

Dag Right-square-bracket-gren <d...@c3.cx> wrote:
>I'm in a funny position where I really enjoy stories of the fantastic and
>supernatural, yet I do not believe in them in the least. I would agree,
>regarding Tamara's story, with that panel of experts - the kid probably
>caused all of it himself, whether he was conscious of it or not. But that
>just adds to the story, really.

It reminds me of a story I saw on one of those news-magazine programmes.

There were all these mysterious phone calls coming into the house, with
menacing answering machine messages, and mysterious voices breaking into
phone calls. They brought in the police, they couldn't trace it. They
brought in psychics, they collected lots of money but didn't cure the
problem.

Eventually it turned out it was just their kid playing a joke, by picking
up the extension.

Think that kid'll ever see sunlight again?

--
Nick Bensema <ni...@io.com> ICQ#2135445
==== ======= ============== http://www.io.com/~nickb/

Kevin S. Wilson

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Dec 6, 2001, 3:17:43 PM12/6/01
to
On Thu, 06 Dec 2001 18:10:46 GMT, ni...@bermuda.io.com (Nick Bensema)
wrote:

>In article <3c0d5990$0$1...@news.impulse.net>,
>Dag Right-square-bracket-gren <d...@c3.cx> wrote:
>>I'm in a funny position where I really enjoy stories of the fantastic and
>>supernatural, yet I do not believe in them in the least. I would agree,
>>regarding Tamara's story, with that panel of experts - the kid probably
>>caused all of it himself, whether he was conscious of it or not. But that
>>just adds to the story, really.
>
>It reminds me of a story I saw on one of those news-magazine programmes.
>
>There were all these mysterious phone calls coming into the house, with
>menacing answering machine messages, and mysterious voices breaking into
>phone calls. They brought in the police, they couldn't trace it. They
>brought in psychics, they collected lots of money but didn't cure the
>problem.
>
>Eventually it turned out it was just their kid playing a joke, by picking
>up the extension.

If it's the same case I'm thinking of, it was a bit more than a joke.
That kid was seriously wacked. As I recall, he was trying to drive his
parents nuts with a series of increasingly malicious and threatening
phone calls.

>Think that kid'll ever see sunlight again?

"I'll put you UNDER the jail, punk!"

--
Kevin S. Wilson
Tech Writer at University Somewhere in Idaho

Matt McIrvin

unread,
Dec 6, 2001, 8:40:54 PM12/6/01
to
In article <aiEP7.3690$Oh1.38618@insync>, b...@chiba.3jane.net (b r e t t)
wrote:

> I haven't thought about it in years. And I have no idea what it was,


> other than a slow, low-flying, rotating metallic disc. Neither Jesse
> Ventura nor Alex Trebek showed up to tell me I saw Venus. I still do
> not believe in alien visitors, or Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster, or
> El Chupacabra. But once I definitely saw something in the sky that I
> still don't understand.

OK, and here's *my* inexplicable childhood sighting, which I just
remembered.

One summer night, when I was maybe seven or eight-- I'm not sure
precisely when it was-- I was lying in bed trying to get to sleep
during what I think was potentially stormy weather. The window was
open, with a metal screen across the opening.

Suddenly, the whole screen lit up with a sort of wave of yellow light
that washed across the surface over a second or two, accompanied by
a loud frying noise.

Probably this was just some sort of dream or hypnagogic hallucination.
I had a particular terror of lightning during this period, as a result
of reading science books for kids of the dreary sort that consist
almost completely of stern safety lectures, and this may have been just
my child mind's imagining of what lightning striking the house would be
like. It resembled nothing so much as the behavior of Movie
Electricity, that substance made of lightning bolts that crawls all
over things while going zztt-zztt-zztt, which is what makes me doubt
the whole thing.

If it really happened, it must have been some kind of electrical oddity
of a sort that I have never heard described quite like this. The
closest equivalent would be some sort of ball lightning or maybe St.
Elmo's fire (corona discharge). Ball lightning is reported as doing
all kinds of crazy things, nobody has a really good explanation for it,
and it's hard to figure out what if any of the reported behavior might
be genuine. Corona discharge is better understood, but it doesn't
behave quite like that, and, besides, I'd expect lightning to have
struck the house immediately afterward, with that kind of image charge
buzzing around-- and I distinctly do *not* remember that happening.

It's interesting that so many of these weird encounters with the
inexplicable are childhood memories. As I remember back into earliest
childhood it becomes more and more difficult to distinguish dreams and
images based on things somebody told me from genuine memories. This
particular incident was unusually late for that, but I still have no
idea whether I actually experienced it or not.

--
Matt McIrvin

Dean Lenort

unread,
Dec 6, 2001, 11:33:58 PM12/6/01
to
On Wed, 5 Dec 2001, Matt McIrvin <mmci...@world.std.com> beabled:

> In article <4pqq0uk371a2qiilc...@4ax.com>,
> Dean Lenort <dean....@att.net> wrote:

<snip my statement that I think most paranormal items are hoaxes or just
honest mistakes of something rather more mundane>

> The big problem with discussions of such events is that, usually, an
> expression of skepticism gets interpreted as implying that the claimant
> is lying or crazy, so the whole thing devolves into trading of insults.
> Read sci.skeptic at any time for examples (well, last time I read it,
> the whole group had been taken over by a couple of Holocaust deniers
> and a hundred people shouting at them, so maybe not).

One thing that keeps the skeptic hat firmly in place on my head is the
stuff that I read about the space shuttle. It's not those people that have
the firm belief that the US Government and NASA are hiding the knowledge of
aliens from the public (which could be the case as far as I know, but I
highly doubt it), it's those people that believe that every time that the
downlink video from the shuttle goes away it's because a flying saucer just
flew through the camera's field of view and that NASA kills the feed to
maintain the massive coverup. I say to those people, and you can quote me
on this, "HA!".

And don't get me started on Hoagland (sp?). FURRFU with a capital FUR!
--
Dean Lenort | Star travel is no place for girlie boys.
dean....@att.net | -- STAR1SHIP (star...@aol.com)

Lots42

unread,
Dec 7, 2001, 1:51:46 AM12/7/01
to
A while ago I was hanging around outside.

I saw two lights in the sky. They didn't do anything, just sat there over the
horizon.

I thought maybe they were plane lights but they didn't land or move or do
anything.

I figured there was a pole recently constructed with lights on top.

I went back inside.

Later days, the lights were never seen again.

Neither was any pole.

David DeLaney

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Dec 7, 2001, 2:04:37 AM12/7/01
to
Brack! <ti...@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>These people really love spam | ___
><root@[127.0.0.1]> | / \
><MAILER-DAEMON@[127.0.0.1]> | __(@)(@)|
><abuse@[127.0.0.1]> | (_____ /
>pres...@whitehouse.gov | )(
><.@[127.0.0.1]> UNSUBSCRIBE | Ducky watches you!

WAHHHH! PNG THE SIGDUCK ATE THE FERRETS!

Dave 'and had the mouse for dessert, guvner!" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

Joseph Michael Bay

unread,
Dec 7, 2001, 3:39:57 AM12/7/01
to
Matt McIrvin <mmci...@world.std.com> writes:


>If it really happened, it must have been some kind of electrical oddity
>of a sort that I have never heard described quite like this. The
>closest equivalent would be some sort of ball lightning or maybe St.
>Elmo's fire (corona discharge).

Elmo likes fire! Elmo will light fire to your house! Yaaaay!

>Ball lightning is reported as doing
>all kinds of crazy things, nobody has a really good explanation for it,
>and it's hard to figure out what if any of the reported behavior might
>be genuine.

Wool underpants on a dry day. THAT'S THE ONLY RATIONAL EXPLANATION.

>Corona discharge is better understood, but it doesn't
>behave quite like that,

http://members.tripod.com/kd2001/vommie/vom_pics.htm

>images based on things somebody told me from genuine memories. This
>particular incident was unusually late for that, but I still have no
>idea whether I actually experienced it or not.

The preceding was a reconstruction. It never happened ... or DID IT?

No. It did not happen. But it could have happened. It happened.
It didn't happen -- or DID IT?

--
Joseph M. Bay Lamont Sanford Junior University
Putting the "harm" in molecular pharmacology since 1998
When crime is outlawed, only outlaws will commit crimes.
ABOLISH http://www.stanford.edu/~jmbay LAW


PS or DID IT?

--
Joseph M. Bay Lamont Sanford Junior University
Putting the "harm" in molecular pharmacology since 1998
When crime is outlawed, only outlaws will commit crimes.
LEGALIZE http://www.stanford.edu/~jmbay CRIME

Chris Franks

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Dec 7, 2001, 5:22:14 PM12/7/01
to

"Matt McIrvin" <mmci...@world.std.com> wrote

Ball lightning is reported as doing all kinds of crazy things, nobody has
a really good explanation for it, and it's hard to figure out what if any
of the reported behavior might be genuine.

Properties of plasma discharge do a pretty complete job of accounting
for ball lightning effects.
Do a search on magnetohydrodynamics.


Matt McIrvin

unread,
Dec 7, 2001, 6:38:14 PM12/7/01
to
In article <10077637...@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>,
"Chris Franks" <chris_...@agilent.com> wrote:

My impression is that the issue isn't settled at all. For instance, see:

http://www.sciam.com/askexpert/physics/physics30.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_628000/628709.stm
http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s127660.htm

There are also some really weird things that probably aren't going to
be subsumed into any coherent general theory, like the people who claim
that ball lightning makes crop circles. The first two articles mention
it passing intact through nonconducting walls, but the third implies
that it can pass intact through the metal hulls of airplanes. My guess
is that there's some real phenomenon here, but it's such a rare and
flaky thing that undoubtedly some of the reported properties are going
to turn out to just be completely bogus.

--
Matt McIrvin

Chris Franks

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Dec 7, 2001, 7:54:23 PM12/7/01
to

"Matt McIrvin" <mmci...@world.std.com> wrote in message >

Thanks for the references. I had not heard of the maser theory, and now
that they have found natural masers in outer space, we may find out more
about them. We do know that some crop circles were made by confessed
hoaxers.

Zixia

unread,
Dec 8, 2001, 6:38:00 PM12/8/01
to
Matt McIrvin devised a cunning plan:

> The fact is that mentally healthy people see things that aren't
> there, or that are not what they seem to be, *all the time*. And,
> of course, every so often somebody discovers something that is
> genuinely outside the realm of known experience, though this is
> rare.

I remember reading, when I was quite a bit younger, about (I think)
Belinda Carlisle's experience of seeing a ghost. She reported to this
magazine something to the effect that she "awoke" to find herself
unable to move, and was presented with a vision of a spirit. When the
spirit disappeared, she was free to move again.

This was a little creepy for me at the time, because I had experienced
something similar, although without seeing a ghostly apparition. I
had woken up once or twice and found myself unable to move or speak,
and it was quite worrying when it happened. I had to try very hard to
expel air from my lungs to make even the smallest sound, which would
then enable me to move.

Several years later, I read in New Scientist that a percentage of
people suffer from "sleep paralysis", where the consciousness is
partly woken from deep sleep, but a part is still in a light sleep.
This produces all the effects that I experienced and is not too
uncommon. I was satisfied with that explanation, and wondered if that
was what induced the vision seen by Ms Carlisle.


--
Zixia IQC# 52428759 ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
All would live long, ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
But none would be old. o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o
zi...@btinternet.com /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\

Glenn Knickerbocker

unread,
Dec 8, 2001, 6:57:20 PM12/8/01
to
On 8 Dec 2001 23:38:00 GMT, Zixia <zi...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>Several years later, I read in New Scientist that a percentage of
>people suffer from "sleep paralysis", where the consciousness is
>partly woken from deep sleep, but a part is still in a light sleep.

I suffered sleep paralysis quite frequently back when my obstructive
sleep apnea was really bad. Now I just wake up with an arm asleep.

ŹR "People late for work only deal with the essentials, cutting away
uneccesary tasks like Occam's Razor with no time to shave." --oTTo--Bahn

Tamara

unread,
Dec 8, 2001, 7:06:52 PM12/8/01
to
"Zixia" <zi...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9171F0787CEE...@130.133.1.4...

> Matt McIrvin devised a cunning plan:
>
> > The fact is that mentally healthy people see things that aren't
> > there, or that are not what they seem to be, *all the time*. And,
> > of course, every so often somebody discovers something that is
> > genuinely outside the realm of known experience, though this is
> > rare.
>
> I remember reading, when I was quite a bit younger, about (I think)
> Belinda Carlisle's experience of seeing a ghost. She reported to this
> magazine something to the effect that she "awoke" to find herself
> unable to move, and was presented with a vision of a spirit. When the
> spirit disappeared, she was free to move again.

Almost definitely sleep paralysis, as you outline in the next paragraph.
I've suffered from this since I was a teenager. Thankfully, I have not had
an episode in a long time.

> This was a little creepy for me at the time, because I had experienced
> something similar, although without seeing a ghostly apparition. I
> had woken up once or twice and found myself unable to move or speak,
> and it was quite worrying when it happened. I had to try very hard to
> expel air from my lungs to make even the smallest sound, which would
> then enable me to move.

Same with me. The only thing you can do is to try to take deep breaths and
hope that that wakes you up fully and allows you to move again.

> Several years later, I read in New Scientist that a percentage of
> people suffer from "sleep paralysis", where the consciousness is
> partly woken from deep sleep, but a part is still in a light sleep.
> This produces all the effects that I experienced and is not too
> uncommon. I was satisfied with that explanation, and wondered if that
> was what induced the vision seen by Ms Carlisle.

I have had several instances of sleep paralysis where I continued to "dream"
yet I knew that I was really half awake. That might account for the ghost.
I thought I was losing my mind and sought medical attention and my doctor,
although I did not attend any type of sleep clinic, told me that she could
almost 100% confirm that it was typical sleep paralysis. Scary as hell but
harmless.

~T


Rose Marie Holt

unread,
Dec 9, 2001, 3:22:50 AM12/9/01
to
In article <2RxQ7.929$fg7....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>, Tamara
<tamara...@sprint.ca> claimed

>
> I have had several instances of sleep paralysis where I continued to "dream"
> yet I knew that I was really half awake. That might account for the ghost.
> I thought I was losing my mind and sought medical attention and my doctor,
> although I did not attend any type of sleep clinic, told me that she could
> almost 100% confirm that it was typical sleep paralysis. Scary as hell but
> harmless.
>
> ~T
>
>

Someone told me about sleep paralysis, so i tried to do it and finally did
and it was OK except my body felt like it was humming, so I went back to
real sleep so I could wake up for real.

I did it by becoming conscious during a dream "Hey! THis is a DREAM! I
must be ASLEEP! I wonder what it feels like!"

I have no interest in doing it again. It is kind of creepy., even when you
do it on purpose. It must be positively FREEKIEE! when it comes up by
surprise.

My particular sleep pathologiese were: walking in my sleep. Sleeping
through fire alarms. Beating up my roommate in my sleep. This was all in
college when I did not use pajamas of any kind. Considering how little
action I had, a lot of people saw a lot of me those years.

Now I just cant sleep. However, the nightmares are gone.

Tamara

unread,
Dec 9, 2001, 10:20:08 AM12/9/01
to
"Rose Marie Holt" <rmh...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:B8386D6A.2AAF%rmh...@mindspring.com...

> In article <2RxQ7.929$fg7....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>, Tamara
> <tamara...@sprint.ca> claimed
>
> >
> > I have had several instances of sleep paralysis where I continued to
"dream"
> > yet I knew that I was really half awake. That might account for the
ghost.
> > I thought I was losing my mind and sought medical attention and my
doctor,
> > although I did not attend any type of sleep clinic, told me that she
could
> > almost 100% confirm that it was typical sleep paralysis. Scary as hell
but
> > harmless.

> Someone told me about sleep paralysis, so i tried to do it and finally did


> and it was OK except my body felt like it was humming, so I went back to
> real sleep so I could wake up for real.

This "humming" you are talking about, did it sound like electrical "buzzing"
in your brane? If so, that is exactly what would happen to me yet I
couldn't find a way to describe that to my doc. It really freaked me out!
I would get this weird buzzing noise yet I couldn't move at all to force
myself to wake up.

> I have no interest in doing it again. It is kind of creepy., even when
you
> do it on purpose. It must be positively FREEKIEE! when it comes up by
> surprise.

I'd be interested in hearing further how you managed to do this on purpose.
I wouldn't mind another episode of the sleep paralysis (as an experiment) if
I knew that I brought it on myself.

> My particular sleep pathologiese were: walking in my sleep.

Oh hell, I've been doing that since I was a kid! The docs thought I would
outgrow it but instead I just got more and more creative with my
sleepwalking. I once carried (in several trips, obviously) about 100 video
cassettes up to the second floor landing and piled them all up in neat
little piles and have absolutely no recollection of doing so. Another time
I was desperately trying to put out an imaginary fire in the sink. And
another time I took all of the towels out of the linen closet and lined them
up all around the room because it was apparently flooding in my dreams. I
then picked up my cat and announced "DON'T WORRY DALE! I'LL SAVE YOU!!"

All of this was done to my ex-husbands great amusement and I have no
recollection of any of it other than seeing the aftermath.

One of my most interesting semi-sleep stories goes back to when I lived in
my first apartment. I tended to lie down on the couch to watch teevee at a
certain time every evening and, on about 5 or 6 occasions, while on that
couch, I freaked out because I could swear that I heard strange stuff from
INSIDE my head. I thought I was losing it but it turns out that I was lying
in -just- the right position to pick up the local radio station in the
fillings in my teeth. It never happened unless I was lying just right on
that one couch in the proper direction. It's kind of weird to hear radio
jingles and then the deejay yammering on about local news...all coming from
the INSIDE of your head.

It hasn't happened since I moved from that apartment and that was more than
12 years ago.

~T


Talysman the Ur-Beatle

unread,
Dec 9, 2001, 2:57:57 PM12/9/01
to
"Tamara" <tamara...@sprint.ca> wrote in message news:<5dLQ7.1107$fg7....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>...

> "Rose Marie Holt" <rmh...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:B8386D6A.2AAF%rmh...@mindspring.com...

> > Someone told me about sleep paralysis, so i tried to do it and finally did
> > and it was OK except my body felt like it was humming, so I went back to
> > real sleep so I could wake up for real.
>
> This "humming" you are talking about, did it sound like electrical "buzzing"
> in your brane? If so, that is exactly what would happen to me yet I
> couldn't find a way to describe that to my doc. It really freaked me out!
> I would get this weird buzzing noise yet I couldn't move at all to force
> myself to wake up.

I had this once. I slept for about 14 hours, and
when I woke up, I had a terrific headache and this
loud rhythmic buzz that sort of throbbed. eventually
it went away.

this was an important experience to me, because I
realized that, when crazy people talk about mind
control rays or stuff like that, they're just trying
to describe this experience... they just mistakenly
believe it's something outside themselves. meanwhile,
people who haven't experienced the buzzing think
the crazy people are making it up, but they aren't.

Rose Marie Holt

unread,
Dec 10, 2001, 12:48:57 AM12/10/01
to
In article <5dLQ7.1107$fg7....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>, Tamara
<tamara...@sprint.ca> claimed

> "Rose Marie Holt" <rmh...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:B8386D6A.2AAF%rmh...@mindspring.com...

>

>> Someone told me about sleep paralysis, so i tried to do it and finally did
>> and it was OK except my body felt like it was humming, so I went back to
>> real sleep so I could wake up for real.
>
> This "humming" you are talking about, did it sound like electrical "buzzing"
> in your brane?

Yes

> If so, that is exactly what would happen to me yet I
> couldn't find a way to describe that to my doc. It really freaked me out!
> I would get this weird buzzing noise yet I couldn't move at all to force
> myself to wake up.

Oh, yes, I couldnt wake myself up at all. Plus, it bugged me that I couldnt
move. This makes sense since dreams are in REM sleep and during REM, the
muscles go limp.

Anyways, the person who told me about this said she couldnt wake up, so I
was not too panicked when I couldnt wake up, but I was def freaked out and
nervous. I just had to trust that I could go back to real sleep, and that's
what I did.


>
> I'd be interested in hearing further how you managed to do this on purpose.
> I wouldn't mind another episode of the sleep paralysis (as an experiment) if
> I knew that I brought it on myself.

I just told myself at night that if I had a dream I would try to realize
that it was a dream and remember to see how it felt. I had a JFK dream and
for some reason, I remembered my plan and was able to become self-aware.
Took several tries.

>
>> My particular sleep pathologiese were: walking in my sleep.

>

> All of this was done to my ex-husbands great amusement and I have no
> recollection of any of it other than seeing the aftermath.

Yes it isnt fair that others get to enjoy it. Sometimes I wonder if they are
embellishing a little.

Tamara

unread,
Dec 10, 2001, 1:32:53 AM12/10/01
to
"Rose Marie Holt" <rmh...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:B8399AD9.2B65%rmh...@mindspring.com...

> In article <5dLQ7.1107$fg7....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>, Tamara
> <tamara...@sprint.ca> claimed
>
> > "Rose Marie Holt" <rmh...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> > news:B8386D6A.2AAF%rmh...@mindspring.com...
>
> >
> >> Someone told me about sleep paralysis, so i tried to do it and finally
did
> >> and it was OK except my body felt like it was humming, so I went back
to
> >> real sleep so I could wake up for real.
> >
> > This "humming" you are talking about, did it sound like electrical
"buzzing"
> > in your brane?
>
> Yes

FINALLY! Someone who has experienced what I tried so desperately to explain
to my ex-husband and to my doctor. Both looked at me in disbelief. My ex
just riduculed me. I told him that it was for real and he just said
something like "yeah, whatever."

> > If so, that is exactly what would happen to me yet I
> > couldn't find a way to describe that to my doc. It really freaked me
out!
> > I would get this weird buzzing noise yet I couldn't move at all to force
> > myself to wake up.
>
> Oh, yes, I couldnt wake myself up at all. Plus, it bugged me that I
couldnt
> move. This makes sense since dreams are in REM sleep and during REM, the
> muscles go limp.
>
> Anyways, the person who told me about this said she couldnt wake up, so I
> was not too panicked when I couldnt wake up, but I was def freaked out and
> nervous. I just had to trust that I could go back to real sleep, and
that's
> what I did.

My GP told me to just let myself go back to sleep yet she offered no
explanation as to why this crap was happening so I was really scared. I can
recall one time when it happened maybe three times during the course of one
night. I was deathly afraid of going back to sleep because I didn't want it
to happen again. For those of you who haven't experienced it, it is really
terrifying.

> > I'd be interested in hearing further how you managed to do this on
purpose.
> > I wouldn't mind another episode of the sleep paralysis (as an
experiment) if
> > I knew that I brought it on myself.
>
> I just told myself at night that if I had a dream I would try to realize
> that it was a dream and remember to see how it felt. I had a JFK dream
and
> for some reason, I remembered my plan and was able to become self-aware.
> Took several tries.

I am going to try this. Report to follow (if I get it right!)

> >> My particular sleep pathologiese were: walking in my sleep.
>
> >
> > All of this was done to my ex-husbands great amusement and I have no
> > recollection of any of it other than seeing the aftermath.
>
> Yes it isnt fair that others get to enjoy it. Sometimes I wonder if they
are
> embellishing a little.

But I always saw the stuff I had done during the night. I once moved the
coffee table right into the kitchen and had no idea that I had done it. My
sleep-walking began when I was about 6. My mother says that I walked out of
the bedroom and into the livingroom and threw a pillow at her and then
promptly went back to bed. As an adult, I was always worried that I would
wander outside. This only happened once when I went out to the patio and
moved the barbeque from one side of the patio to the other. Thankfully, I
was wearing nightclothes.

~T


Nick Bensema

unread,
Dec 10, 2001, 1:22:57 PM12/10/01
to
In article <B8386D6A.2AAF%rmh...@mindspring.com>,

Rose Marie Holt <rmh...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Someone told me about sleep paralysis, so i tried to do it and finally did
>and it was OK except my body felt like it was humming, so I went back to
>real sleep so I could wake up for real.

And if someone told you about jumping off a bridge...?

Actually, though, it takes just a little variation to turn sleep paralysis
into astral projection. You're aware of where you are, but you're still
dreaming, so you can kind of move around but it's like really hard if you
try to do it by walking.

>I did it by becoming conscious during a dream "Hey! THis is a DREAM! I
>must be ASLEEP! I wonder what it feels like!"
>
>I have no interest in doing it again. It is kind of creepy., even when you
>do it on purpose. It must be positively FREEKIEE! when it comes up by
>surprise.

I find myself usually trying to scream, but not being able to. Actually,
last night I had my first actual "dream" dream where the same thing
happened.

Glenn Knickerbocker

unread,
Dec 10, 2001, 6:10:39 PM12/10/01
to
Rose Marie Holt wrote:
> I did it by becoming conscious during a dream "Hey! THis is a DREAM! I
> must be ASLEEP! I wonder what it feels like!"

I used to have dreams where I would realize I was in a dream and then
just go to bed. That's how I got away from the Star Trek monster that
was my big sister with poisonous colored spots on her teeth, in fact.

I always wondered what would happen if I ever realized I was in my
recurring dream where I was in a store and had to find and buy the
correct item to get out, only to be picked up by a huge mechanical arm
and put in another similar store. I guess it would probably be one of
those dreams where you wake up from a dream but you're still dreaming.

ŹR

Matt McIrvin

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Dec 10, 2001, 7:05:14 PM12/10/01
to
In article <Xns9171F0787CEE...@130.133.1.4>,
Zixia <zi...@btinternet.com> wrote:

> Several years later, I read in New Scientist that a percentage of
> people suffer from "sleep paralysis", where the consciousness is
> partly woken from deep sleep, but a part is still in a light sleep.
> This produces all the effects that I experienced and is not too
> uncommon. I was satisfied with that explanation, and wondered if that
> was what induced the vision seen by Ms Carlisle.

Yep, I get this pretty frequently, and it often happens while the
jumbled leftovers of dreams are still running, so I wouldn't be
terribly surprised to see ghosts or angels or something while in this
state.

--
Matt McIrvin

Rose Marie Holt

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Dec 10, 2001, 7:51:02 PM12/10/01
to
In article <547R7.142174$tf5.7...@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, Nick
Bensema <ni...@bermuda.io.com> claimed

> In article <B8386D6A.2AAF%rmh...@mindspring.com>,
> Rose Marie Holt <rmh...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> Someone told me about sleep paralysis, so i tried to do it and finally did
>> and it was OK except my body felt like it was humming, so I went back to
>> real sleep so I could wake up for real.
>
> And if someone told you about jumping off a bridge...?

Well...if he had actually done it himself. Also, I had other sleep
pathologies, so I was interested in possibly adopting another.
>


Dag Right-square-bracket-gren

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Dec 11, 2001, 5:41:51 AM12/11/01
to
Tamara <tamara...@sprint.ca> wrote:
> "Rose Marie Holt" <rmh...@mindspring.com> wrote in message

>> Someone told me about sleep paralysis, so i tried to do it and finally did


>> and it was OK except my body felt like it was humming, so I went back to
>> real sleep so I could wake up for real.

> This "humming" you are talking about, did it sound like electrical "buzzing"
> in your brane? If so, that is exactly what would happen to me yet I
> couldn't find a way to describe that to my doc. It really freaked me out!
> I would get this weird buzzing noise yet I couldn't move at all to force
> myself to wake up.

Hmm, what I get sometimes is, when trying to fall asleep, this sensation
that I can best describe as a loud buzz, or the sound of a cymbal, really
distorted, that sort moves through my head in a wave and wakes me
up. It's over in a second or so. It's not really a sound, that's just the
best way I can interpret it. Very freaky. It might be realted to that the
feeling of falling you can get just before falling asleep, but I'm not
sure.

Also, when I was staying at this one hostel, this other guy was talking in
his sleep, and he suddenly said "uhhhn... Doesn't seem fair...". It was
the funniest thing ever.

--
Dag Agren <> d...@c3.cx <> http://www.abo.fi/~dagren/ <> Legalize oregano
The time is nigh / I dreamed a lake
It's greek to me / Your pants are down

Jorn Barger

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Dec 11, 2001, 8:25:13 AM12/11/01
to
Dag Right-square-bracket-gren <d...@c3.cx> wrote:
> Also, when I was staying at this one hostel, this other guy was talking in
> his sleep, and he suddenly said "uhhhn... Doesn't seem fair...". It was
> the funniest thing ever.

James Joyce does this better^Wdifferently than you:
http://www.robotwisdom.com/jaj/fwake/cad.html

...This Treacle Tom, to whom reference has just been made, had been
absent from his usual wild and woolly haunts for some time previous
to that (he was, in fact, in the habit of frequenting common
lodginghouses where he slept in a nude state in strange men's
bunks) but revisiting on racenight his house of call at Block W,
>> Pump square, the Liberties, he repeated the tale in parts more than
>> once during uneasy slumber in the joint hearing of a discharged
drapery executive Peter Cloran, O'Donnell, a secretary of no fixed
abode who had passed several nights in a doorway and Hosty, an
illstarred busker who, feeling suicidal, had been tossing on his
shakedown devising ways and means of somehow getting ahold of some
chap's parabellum in the hope of lighting upon a dive somewhere off
the main tramline where he could go and blow the napper off himself
in peace and quietness, he having been trying all he knew for over
eighteen months to get into Jervis street hospital without having
been able to wangle it anyway...


--
Robot Wisdom Weblog: http://www.robotwisdom.com/ "If you worry that
reading the news online will rob you of the serendipity factor you get
with the newspaper, Jorn Barger solves the problem." --Dan Gillmor

Jacob W. Haller

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Dec 12, 2001, 7:59:19 AM12/12/01
to
Glenn Knickerbocker <No...@bestweb.net> wrote:

> Rose Marie Holt wrote:
> > I did it by becoming conscious during a dream "Hey! THis is a DREAM! I
> > must be ASLEEP! I wonder what it feels like!"
>
> I used to have dreams where I would realize I was in a dream and then
> just go to bed. That's how I got away from the Star Trek monster that
> was my big sister with poisonous colored spots on her teeth, in fact.

I will now reveal that I am the most boring person in the universe.
This will not come as a great surprise to anyone.

About ten years ago I had a recurring dream where I would be lying in
bed looking at the ceiling. Then I would think, "Hey, the lights are
off. I shouldn't be able to see the ceiling. I must be asleep." Then
I would wake up.

Another dream was while I was working at my old job, which did not give
me a great deal of enjoyment. I woke up rested and refreshed, made it
to the bus in plenty of time, got to work and started being productive
immidiately, etc. Then I really woke up and was really tired and
unispired, almost missed the bus, got stopped three times on the way to
my desk, etc.

The latter dream indicated to me that my fantasy world was identical to
the world I actually inhabited, only about 10% better. I found this
strangely depressing at the time.

-jwgh

--
'[. . .] a good pair of crimpers will be your life-long friend. They
will be there for you, year after year, consistently, until that fateful
day that "someone" "borrows" them for "just a second", and then there
will be much sadness.' - kevbob in alt.tech-support.recovery 14 Jan 2000

Tamara

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Dec 12, 2001, 11:03:43 AM12/12/01
to
"Jacob W. Haller" <jw...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1f4alre.1d8y59w18i0918N%jw...@earthlink.net...

> Glenn Knickerbocker <No...@bestweb.net> wrote:
>
> > Rose Marie Holt wrote:

> > > I did it by becoming conscious during a dream "Hey! THis is a DREAM!
I
> > > must be ASLEEP! I wonder what it feels like!"
> >
> > I used to have dreams where I would realize I was in a dream and then
> > just go to bed. That's how I got away from the Star Trek monster that
> > was my big sister with poisonous colored spots on her teeth, in fact.
>
> I will now reveal that I am the most boring person in the universe.
> This will not come as a great surprise to anyone.
>
> About ten years ago I had a recurring dream where I would be lying in
> bed looking at the ceiling. Then I would think, "Hey, the lights are
> off. I shouldn't be able to see the ceiling. I must be asleep." Then
> I would wake up.

A few years ago when I had no choice but to move back in to my mother's
house for a few months (GAAAH!), I remember "seeing" the flowery bedsheets
"through" my eyelids. This happened more than once or twice. It was like a
nightly occurrence. I would close my eyes and try to go to sleep and then
realize that I was staring at all of the flowers on the bedsheets. Then I
would figure out that it couldn't possibly be happening because 1. It was
dark and 2. My eyes were closed.

Conclusion -- moving in with your mother when you are in your mid-thirties
will drive you insane.

~T


Kevin S. Wilson

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Dec 12, 2001, 2:23:38 PM12/12/01
to
On Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:59:19 GMT, jw...@earthlink.net (Jacob W. Haller)
wrote:

>Another dream was while I was working at my old job, which did not give
>me a great deal of enjoyment. I woke up rested and refreshed, made it
>to the bus in plenty of time, got to work and started being productive
>immidiately, etc. Then I really woke up and was really tired and
>unispired, almost missed the bus, got stopped three times on the way to
>my desk, etc.

While in my early twenties I worked in a variety of construction
trades, including pouring concrete. More often than was healthy, I
would come home from a 10- or 12-hour day of pouring concrete, fall
asleep with my boots on, and dream all night about pouring concrete.
No fun. I'd wake up more tired than when I went to bed.

Brian 'Jarai' Chase

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Dec 13, 2001, 1:42:04 AM12/13/01
to
In article <mmcirvin-D2D930.20405306122001@[192.168.123.1]>,
Matt McIrvin <mmci...@world.std.com> wrote:

> OK, and here's *my* inexplicable childhood sighting, which I just
> remembered.
>
> One summer night, when I was maybe seven or eight-- I'm not sure
> precisely when it was-- I was lying in bed trying to get to sleep
> during what I think was potentially stormy weather. The window was
> open, with a metal screen across the opening.
>
> Suddenly, the whole screen lit up with a sort of wave of yellow light
> that washed across the surface over a second or two, accompanied by
> a loud frying noise.

Well, for what it's worth, I had very strange experience last Spring in a
roughly similar vein as the one above. There was a massive electrical
storm in Bloomington one evening. Mostly it was lightning and thunder
not much rain, but the electrical activity was nearly constant.

My gf at the time and I decided to go out to get dinner. We got in the
car, and just a second or two after she shut the door, there was flash of
light on her side of the car. Along with the flash there was a quiet sort
of hollow popping sound. A few glowing ashes floated down on my side of
the car immediately after the flash.

I was sort of startled by the event but didn't know what to make of it.
For one, there wasn't any kind of loud crack from a lightning strike. It
also seemed really unlikely to me because we were far from being the
highest point on the ground. There are two massive pine trees in the
front yard which reach far above the top of my house. Then there's the
top of my house, and then the house is built up on a bank of earth that's
about 5-6ft above ground level. I was parked in the driveway which is at
basement level, so the top of the car was bellow ground level.

It was sort of weird, and I can think of any explanation for it, but she
and I were able to back eachother up something strange having happened.
Had we been a second or two slower in getting into the car, I may have
been able to experience the phenomenon up close and personal.

-jarai.
--
--- Brian Chase | b...@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----
I'm sorry, this doesn't make any sense. TO YOU!!! -- K.

Dag Right-square-bracket-gren

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Dec 13, 2001, 8:22:11 AM12/13/01
to
Matt McIrvin <mmci...@world.std.com> wrote:

> OK, and here's *my* inexplicable childhood sighting, which I just
> remembered.

Well, speaking of strange natural phenomena: Once I was outside, late at
night, in thw winter, out in the middle of nowhere in the Finnish
countryside. It was almost completely dark. Suddenly, everything flashed
white, once, like a lightning strike, but completely silent. It was really
quiet, too, so any sound would have been heard. Quite freaky.

Brian 'Jarai' Chase

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Dec 13, 2001, 7:09:00 PM12/13/01
to
In article <3c18ab83$0$1...@news.impulse.net>,
Dag Right-square-bracket-gren <d...@c3.cx> wrote:

> Well, speaking of strange natural phenomena: Once I was outside, late at
> night, in thw winter, out in the middle of nowhere in the Finnish
> countryside. It was almost completely dark. Suddenly, everything flashed
> white, once, like a lightning strike, but completely silent. It was really
> quiet, too, so any sound would have been heard. Quite freaky.

Low level Aurora Borealis? Discharging a photo flash capacitor on your
forehead results in white flashes... in your brain.

-jarai.
--
--- Brian Chase | b...@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----

"Captain, we're experiencing a high rate of packet collisions!" -- K.

Chris Franks

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Dec 13, 2001, 7:35:33 PM12/13/01
to

"Dag Right-square-bracket-gren" <d...@c3.cx> Once I was outside, late at

> night, in thw winter, out in the middle of nowhere in the Finnish
> countryside. It was almost completely dark. Suddenly, everything flashed
> white, once, like a lightning strike, but completely silent. It was really
> quiet, too, so any sound would have been heard. Quite freaky

Could have been a bolide that exploded above your cloud layer. Can you
say "Tunguska"?


Matt McIrvin

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Dec 13, 2001, 7:48:31 PM12/13/01
to
In article <10082901...@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>,
"Chris Franks" <chris_...@agilent.com> wrote:

Indeed, or bright cloud-to-cloud lightning somewhere behind his head--
this is often not audible on the ground.

--
Matt McIrvin

Dag Right-square-bracket-gren

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Dec 14, 2001, 6:09:34 AM12/14/01
to

Well, I know that thunder far away can light up the sky pretty well when
it's dark, yet still not be heard, but this was in the middle of Finnish
winter. Not a season you associate with thunder.

Matt McIrvin

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Dec 14, 2001, 4:42:53 PM12/14/01
to
In article <3c15e2ef$0$1...@news.impulse.net>,
Dag Right-square-bracket-gren <d...@c3.cx> wrote:

> Hmm, what I get sometimes is, when trying to fall asleep, this sensation
> that I can best describe as a loud buzz, or the sound of a cymbal, really
> distorted, that sort moves through my head in a wave and wakes me
> up. It's over in a second or so.

I see flashes of bright light sometimes in this situation, especially
when I'm *extremely* tired yet somehow not entirely sleepy.

--
Matt McIrvin

Chris Franks

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Dec 14, 2001, 6:32:21 PM12/14/01
to

"Dag Right-square-bracket-gren" <d...@c3.cx> wrote in message
news:3c15e2ef$0$1...@news.impulse.net...

> Tamara <tamara...@sprint.ca> wrote:
> > "Rose Marie Holt" <rmh...@mindspring.com> wrote in >
> Hmm, what I get sometimes is, when trying to fall asleep, this sensation
> that I can best describe as a loud buzz, or the sound of a cymbal, really
> distorted, that sort moves through my head in a wave and wakes me
> up. It's over in a second or so. It's not really a sound, that's just the
> best way I can interpret it. Very freaky. It might be realted to that the
> feeling of falling you can get just before falling asleep, but I'm not
> sure

I get that maybe once a month, and then maybe twice the same night. It
feels like an electrical surge, almost like positive feedback of the
constant hissing caused by blood rushing thru the vessels in the inner ear,
suddenly building up to a crescendo and then quickly returning to normal.
A friend of mine referred to his as a "brain fart".


Chris Franks

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Dec 14, 2001, 6:38:50 PM12/14/01
to

"Dag Right-square-bracket-gren" <d...@c3.cx> wrote in message >
> Well, I know that thunder far away can light up the sky pretty well when
> it's dark, yet still not be heard, but this was in the middle of Finnish
> winter. Not a season you associate with thunder.

You can search for the website that lists the "events" which are usually
meteors exploding. They are detected by a satellite system that is really
looking for illegal nuclear testing but has found an unsettling number of
fairly large rocks that have collided with us, bright light ensuing.
Remember that your chances of dying due to a meteor impacting the Earth are
about the same as dying in a commercial airplane crash, 1 in 20,000. Altho
they don't happen as often, a killer event such as the Chixilub dinosaur
rock would take out about 7 billion of us in 30 days.

Dag Right-square-bracket-gren

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Dec 14, 2001, 9:57:00 PM12/14/01
to
Chris Franks <chris_...@agilent.com> wrote:

Hmm, interesting. Do you have idea idea what good search terms for that
page would be? I can't seem to find anything right away.

Dag Right-square-bracket-gren

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Dec 14, 2001, 10:01:23 PM12/14/01
to
Chris Franks <chris_...@agilent.com> wrote:

Yeah, that's EXACTLY it. Electrical surge, positive feedback of hiss, once
a month, several in a row sometimes. It's freaky. I've managed to trigger
it other ways too. Something to do with the idea of deep, dark water.
Might be some sort of childhood trauma from when (I think) I fell into the
sea once when I was very young. It happened once, at night, when I was
standing on a small pier in a lake...

Tamara

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Dec 14, 2001, 11:58:40 PM12/14/01
to
"Dag Right-square-bracket-gren" <d...@c3.cx> wrote in message
news:3c1abd03$0$1...@news.impulse.net...

> Chris Franks <chris_...@agilent.com> wrote:
>
> > "Dag Right-square-bracket-gren" <d...@c3.cx> wrote in message
> > news:3c15e2ef$0$1...@news.impulse.net...

[snip of people describing weird electrical-type noises in their heads while
experiencing sleep paralysis]

> Yeah, that's EXACTLY it. Electrical surge, positive feedback of hiss, once
> a month, several in a row sometimes. It's freaky. I've managed to trigger
> it other ways too. Something to do with the idea of deep, dark water.
> Might be some sort of childhood trauma from when (I think) I fell into the
> sea once when I was very young. It happened once, at night, when I was
> standing on a small pier in a lake...

What I don't understand is why I had so much trouble explaining this to my
GP and why she had no idea what I was talking about. In no time at all, you
guys made me feel like this was something that happens to people on a
regular basis. No, wait. Maybe it -doesn't- happen to people on a regular
basis. Maybe it's just us! Wow. Okay. Too much cold medication.

In all seriousness here, I was really scared whenever this happened to me.
Combine that with my doctor looking at like I was an idiot and
everything got even more creepy. The only advice she ever gave me re this
was to go back to sleep when it happened. That wasn't good enough. I was
scared and I wanted someone to explain *why* this was happening.

Now, can anyone give me a decent explanation as to what the hell that
buzzing sound is? Someone mentioned it was the sound of blood rushing
through the blood vessels in the ears but that just doesn't seem to be
enough for me.

Anyone?

~T

Passenger Pigeon

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Dec 15, 2001, 12:15:13 AM12/15/01
to
In article <lGAS7.3612$fg7....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>, "Tamara"
<tamara...@sprint.ca> wrote:

> What I don't understand is why I had so much trouble explaining this to
> my
> GP and why she had no idea what I was talking about.

because doctors hate patients.


no, really.

--
William Burke, passenge...@email.com if you say so
"Many people include in their signatures contact information, and perhaps
a joke or quotation." -- Simon Fraser Go Slugs!
http://www.passengerpigeon.net (not com, not org)

Paula

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Dec 15, 2001, 12:29:41 AM12/15/01
to
Rose Marie Holt <rmh...@mindspring.com> wrote:

> In article <5dLQ7.1107$fg7....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>, Tamara
> <tamara...@sprint.ca> claimed
>
> > "Rose Marie Holt" <rmh...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> > news:B8386D6A.2AAF%rmh...@mindspring.com...
>
> >
> >> Someone told me about sleep paralysis, so i tried to do it and finally did
> >> and it was OK except my body felt like it was humming, so I went back to
> >> real sleep so I could wake up for real.
> >
> > This "humming" you are talking about, did it sound like electrical "buzzing"
> > in your brane?
>
> Yes

I don't remember ever having the humming, but I have definitely had
sleep paralysis. It scared the shit out of me. I thought I was the
only one until my brother described similar experiences. Although the
fact that it scared the shit out of my big strong brother probably
should not have been comforting, it was. I haven't been scared by it in
the same way since. I just tell myself that I can't force myself to
awaken or move, so it is best to go back to sleep. The second "waking"
is always better.



> > If so, that is exactly what would happen to me yet I
> > couldn't find a way to describe that to my doc. It really freaked me out!
> > I would get this weird buzzing noise yet I couldn't move at all to force
> > myself to wake up.
>
> Oh, yes, I couldnt wake myself up at all. Plus, it bugged me that I couldnt
> move. This makes sense since dreams are in REM sleep and during REM, the
> muscles go limp.

That does make sense. It's good to have a doctor in the house.



> Anyways, the person who told me about this said she couldnt wake up, so I
> was not too panicked when I couldnt wake up, but I was def freaked out and
> nervous. I just had to trust that I could go back to real sleep, and that's
> what I did.

Me too, and it worked for me, too. Can I have an honorary ARK sleep
doctor degree from Hyphen U? I need more meaning in my life right now.



> > I'd be interested in hearing further how you managed to do this on purpose.
> > I wouldn't mind another episode of the sleep paralysis (as an experiment) if
> > I knew that I brought it on myself.

Not me. Even though it doesn't scare me when it happens any more, it
still is no fun. I would be happy never to have the experience again.

I would like to learn how to control my dreams and wake from dreams,
though. My problem is PTSD nightmares that have been so severe for so
long that it has caused total anxiety about going to sleep. The things
that sleep brings to me... I would give anything to be the old me who
could only remember a single nightmare even from childhood. Second best
would be to be able to stop the nightmares when they come. I am not
sure waking would help because I still have that terror feeling with me
even when they do wake me, which they generally do when they are really
really terrifying. I would give even more to be the old me who never
knew what real terror and helplessness felt like or the horror that
stalks you and makes you wish you could die quickly rather than face the
death that is coming for you. I survived the accident, but somehow that
truck still managed to kill me. I miss that me. I hate being this me,
especially at night and on the road when the anxiety is heavy enough to
crush me, but I have to carry it with only the hope that it gets better
over time to help me --- and medication when I don't have to be alert
enough to deal with kids and driving and most of what single motherhood
entails. I hate my husband for abandoning me when I needed him most so
I had to endure the worst of it alone. But at least the son of a bitch
has the kids this weekend so for tonight I can take as much klonopin as
it takes to black it all out and go cry myself to sleep without worrying
about what the kids will think and remind myself that this bad period
will eventually pass.

--
Paula

Edward M. Kennedy

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Dec 15, 2001, 1:09:02 AM12/15/01
to
Tamara wrote:

> Now, can anyone give me a decent explanation as to what the hell that
> buzzing sound is? Someone mentioned it was the sound of blood rushing
> through the blood vessels in the ears but that just doesn't seem to be
> enough for me.

Ah, who cares. When I was young, maybe ~6-8 years old,
I figured it was an anomoly of my ears so I just wrote
it off. Maybe I'm different -- the only nightmares I've
had since Jaws was released involve the inability to wake
up (waking up is the cure for nightmares).

When I was about maybe 5, the marching soldiers to the
beat of my heart scared me for a while. Then I realized
hey, it's just my heartbeat. I've had dreams with six or
seven levels of waking up and still being asleep. Now
*that* is a fucking nightmare!

--oTTo--