ATTN: Kibo (or other dye experts)
Talysman the Ur-Beatle
be made to last longer the two or three weeks. it *does* seem a little
ridiculous to call something "permanent" when it's actually temporary,
since it washes out so quickly.
base hair color, if that's important to know, is reddish or auburn.
whatever that color is.
there's a noticable amount of fading after the first shampoo, and the color
is totally gone (as I said) after 2-3 weeks. the color lasts longer after a
bleach job, but this is NOT AN ACCEPTABLE SOLUTION.
if there's a specific brand of hair dye for that shade that will last
longer than normal, that could be a helpful bit of information. also, if
there's some other treatment (honey? soy sauce?) that will allow the color
to last longer, that would also be appreciated. or, for that matter, a
shampoo brand that is easier on dyed hair. surely, you'd think some company
would have thought of this... BUT WAIT! I see their evil plan now! dyes are
DELIBERATELY made short-lived to increase sales volume! we should be glad
that "permanent" hair dye last more than an hour!
--
Talysman the Ur-Beatle, HAIRBEARER
Jeremy D. Impson
> a friend of mine wants to know if level 3 permanent dark brown hair dye can
> be made to last longer the two or three weeks. it *does* seem a little
> ridiculous to call something "permanent" when it's actually temporary,
> since it washes out so quickly.
>
> base hair color, if that's important to know, is reddish or auburn.
> whatever that color is.
>
> there's a noticable amount of fading after the first shampoo, and the color
> is totally gone (as I said) after 2-3 weeks. the color lasts longer after a
> bleach job, but this is NOT AN ACCEPTABLE SOLUTION.
>
Nope Gotta bleach (and peroxide) it. Then use peroxide in with the dye.
--Jeremy, who got a chemical burn on his side burn this weekend.
--
Jeremy Impson
jdimpson can be contacted at acm dot org
http://impson.tzo.com/~jdimpson
James Kibo Parry
>
> a friend of mine wants to know if level 3 permanent dark brown hair dye can
> be made to last longer the two or three weeks. it *does* seem a little
> ridiculous to call something "permanent" when it's actually temporary,
> since it washes out so quickly.
All dye is temporary. If it doesn't wash out, it'll fade due to sunlight.
Especially anything with red in it. (Brown dye tends to contain red pigment.)
> base hair color, if that's important to know, is reddish or auburn.
> whatever that color is.
Is that before or after bleaching? Before or after fading in sun?
> there's a noticable amount of fading after the first shampoo, and the color
> is totally gone (as I said) after 2-3 weeks. the color lasts longer after a
> bleach job, but this is NOT AN ACCEPTABLE SOLUTION.
First, you have to accept that in 2-3 weeks you'd need to redo it even
if it were as permanent as you'd like it to be, because your hair would
grow a lot.
Second, yes, it will stick to the hair better if you first damage the
hair with bleach. If you don't want to really bleach the hair,
a peroxide developer (like a 20-vol cream or whatever) mixed with
the dye will also help it soak in. (One of the reasons Manic Panic
comes out so fast is that it doesn't have any peroxide. Also because
it's relatively weak color, so that you can tell what color it is by
looking at it in the jar -- really concentrated dyes will look much
darker in their raw state.) Peroxide by itself has a very gentle
bleaching effect. (A bleach kit would be peroxide plus something like
ammonium persulfate or other extremely caustic chemical.) Basically,
you want to get some peroxide cream and some dye (basically water
with food coloring in it!) and the peroxide will make the dye go
into the hair.
Third, plenty will come out after the first shampoo no matter what you do.
Try leaving the dye in the hair longer before rinsing it out. (Consider
leaving it in for an hour.) I'm told using a hair dryer to bake it into
the hair (thus damaging the hair) will also help. A friend has also
recommended not washing the hair for the first couple days but I haven't
tried that.
Do use cold (or luke-warm) water when you wash, not hot (hot water
damages the hair, and makes more color wash out.) And absolutely,
positively apply a conditioner for color-treated hair after you've
done the initial rinsing -- some of these contain ultraviolet blockers
to keep it from fading, and of course they all have waxy-type stuff
to seal up the hair and keep the dye from migrating onto your pillow
as much, and it's especially important to condition bleached hair
because otherwise it tends to stick together whenever you dry it.
> if there's a specific brand of hair dye for that shade that will last
> longer than normal, that could be a helpful bit of information.
Go to a beauty-supply store like Sally Beauty Supply (they're everywhere)
and get a bottle of 20-vol cream developer (peroxide) and some brown dye.
Don't use stuff from the drugstore that comes in kit form. The professional
stuff tends to have stronger color (and it's considerably cheaper, too.)
Pick up some conditioner for colored hair while you're there.
> also, if there's some other treatment (honey? soy sauce?)
mustard? ginger? wasabi? durian goop? nutria? Krispy Kreme Original
Glazed Flavor Frozen Blends? chewing gum? Try lots of random foods!
The worst it could do is not only make you feel like a bozo, but look
like one too when all your hair falls out except for the stuff the gum
is holding down.
> that will allow the color to last longer, that would also be appreciated.
> or, for that matter, a shampoo brand that is easier on dyed hair.
> surely, you'd think some company would have thought of this... BUT WAIT!
> I see their evil plan now! dyes are DELIBERATELY made short-lived to
> increase sales volume! we should be glad that "permanent" hair dye
> last more than an hour!
Hey, there is no permanent red dye in anything, anywhere. Look at
the cartons of the VHS tapes facing the sun in Blockbuster if you don't
believe me.
Tell you what. If you really want permanent hair color, come over here
and I'll spray-paint your head with automotive enamel, and then through
a series of chemical injections every day for the rest of your life
we'll keep the hair from growing so you won't have to re-paint it.
Or you could just buy a freakin' wig, you wuss.
-- K.
Name me one thing in the
Universe that really is
permanent, other than
stupidity.
Kevin S. Wilson
Parry) wrote:
> Name me one thing in the
> Universe that really is
> permanent, other than
> stupidity.
Entropy.
HTH.
--
Kevin S. Wilson
Tech Writer at a University Somewhere in Idaho
"You can safely ignore Kevin in order to
maximise life's experience." --A. Loon, in alt.religion.kibology
Talysman the Ur-Beatle
news:kibo-27070...@10.0.1.2:
> Tell you what. If you really want permanent hair color, come over
> here and I'll spray-paint your head with automotive enamel, and then
> through a series of chemical injections every day for the rest of your
> life we'll keep the hair from growing so you won't have to re-paint
> it.
thanks for the offer, but NO. you are not Earl Schreib. you may not buff my
bumpers.
I did forward the (useful) information to my friend, though, because it
might be helpful. me, I have never dyed, curled, or permed my hair, nor
have I shaved naughty words into it. it's just this weird thing, I like
looking the same forever, in case I ever glance in the mirror and wonder
who the heck that is.
--
Talysman the Ur-Beatle, STAINMASTER
Kevin S. Wilson
<talysma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> it's just this weird thing, I like
>looking the same forever, in case I ever glance in the mirror and wonder
>who the heck that is.
Oh, you will, son, you will.
Just ask Darla or one of the Terris.
Talysman the Ur-Beatle
news:23gdg0p622qp6jltj...@4ax.com:
> On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 19:57:16 GMT, "Talysman the Ur-Beatle"
> <talysma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> it's just this weird thing, I like
>>looking the same forever, in case I ever glance in the mirror and wonder
>>who the heck that is.
>
> Oh, you will, son, you will.
>
> Just ask Darla or one of the Terris.
>
I know you're intending this as a friendly little jibe against Teh Fair
Maidens of Outer^W Usenet, suggesting that they are getting *old*, but I
believe you forgot the big-ass discussion about prosopagnosia? remembering
what I look like is a far more immediate need than worrying about getting
old, let me tell you...
also, I am older than one of the Terris, but not both.
especially not TOGETHER.
--
Talysman the Ur-Beatle, STRAWGRASPER
Kevin S. Wilson
<talysma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>also, I am older than one of the Terris, but not both.
>
>especially not TOGETHER.
Duh. Baseball isn't even older than the two of them together.
Jeremy D. Impson
> On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 19:57:16 GMT, "Talysman the Ur-Beatle"
> <talysma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> it's just this weird thing, I like
>> looking the same forever, in case I ever glance in the mirror and wonder
>> who the heck that is.
>
> Oh, you will, son, you will.
>
> Just ask Darla or one of the Terris.
No no, talysman's joek is that he's got that disease that makes mih think
that he is a hat like Kibo.
--Jeremy
(COME BACK DR. MCIRVIN BECAUSE I SUCK AT 'SPLAINING.)
David DeLaney
>ki...@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) wrote:
>> Name me one thing in the
>> Universe that really is
>> permanent, other than
>> stupidity.
>
>Entropy.
Bureaucracy.
Dave "which is why we have Purgatory" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
David DeLaney
>"Talysman the Ur-Beatle" <talysma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>also, I am older than one of the Terris, but not both.
>>
>>especially not TOGETHER.
>
>Duh. Baseball isn't even older than the two of them together.
What if you add a birdbath? Is it older than the two of them together plus
a birdbath?
Dave "the movie camera goes without saying" DeLaney
The Avocado Avenger
>Talysman the Ur-Beatle (talysma...@gmail.com) wrote:
>>
>> a friend of mine wants to know if level 3 permanent dark brown hair dye can
>> be made to last longer the two or three weeks. it *does* seem a little
>> ridiculous to call something "permanent" when it's actually temporary,
>> since it washes out so quickly.
"Permanent" is so wrong. A friend once used deep black "Loving Care"
temporary hair dye for his Halloween 'do, and it lasted longer than my
most recent foray into the bright reds.
>All dye is temporary. If it doesn't wash out, it'll fade due to sunlight.
>Especially anything with red in it. (Brown dye tends to contain red pigment.)
Yes.
>Try leaving the dye in the hair longer before rinsing it out.
Some websites I consulted (including the Manic Panic site) had several
users who suggested leaving the dye in, putting a shower cap on, and
sleeping in the dye.
Then, after you asphyxiate in your sleep, your hair will be fabulous.
>positively apply a conditioner for color-treated hair after you've
>done the initial rinsing -- some of these contain ultraviolet blockers
>to keep it from fading, and of course they all have waxy-type stuff
>to seal up the hair and keep the dye from migrating onto your pillow
The only thing I like about L'Oreal hair color is the conditioner. That
stuff is fucking fabulous. It's happy soft goo with wax sealers and some
sort of magical fragrance that turns your shower into a tropical paradise.
The best hair color I got was the last, and most temporary. It involved
the cheap toxic $3.00 purple-red permanent "Old Lady Brand" hair dye
("Balsam Care" maybe?), L'Oreal vanilla highlights, and L'Oreal happy soft
goo. My hair wasn't anything close to the colors promised, but it was
nice.
Good luck with the brown. I won't bore you with the story about how I
dyed my hair "natural brown", which turned out to be black, and which
caused my ab psych teacher to worry about me.
>> that will allow the color to last longer, that would also be appreciated.
>> or, for that matter, a shampoo brand that is easier on dyed hair.
Pantene. Also Clairol, the kind in the white bottle with the shiny red
square on it, is OK.
Stacia * sta...@xmission.com * The Avocado Avenger
"The ironic part is that, generally, a forest is not a gold-based economy."
David
[...]
> "Permanent" is so wrong. A friend once used deep black "Loving Care"
> temporary hair dye for his Halloween 'do, and it lasted longer than my
> most recent foray into the bright reds.
I used to use whatever Blue Black was on sale, then I quit bothering
and just let it grow out: for about five years I walked around with
two-tone hair, brown on top with a foot-long fringe of black across
the bottom.It faded a bit but never very much. Then I gave up and got
it cut. So in my case it *was* permanent; I'm not sure why, something
in the water or in the "specialness" of my hair or something.
These days I'm Not Allowed to die my hair, cut my hair short, shave
my head, or wear my bib overalls and/or the T-shirt with the kitties
on it in public. My life is so HARD, don't you agree!
D.
--
"I don't think that I can take it, cuz it took so long to bake it."
...................................................................
(C) 2004 TheDavid^TM | David, P.O. Box 21403, Louisville, KY 40221
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> Talysman the Ur-Beatle (talysma...@gmail.com) wrote:
>> there's a noticable amount of fading after the first shampoo, and the color
>> is totally gone (as I said) after 2-3 weeks. the color lasts longer after a
>> bleach job, but this is NOT AN ACCEPTABLE SOLUTION.
>
> First, you have to accept that in 2-3 weeks you'd need to redo it even
> if it were as permanent as you'd like it to be, because your hair would
> grow a lot.
>
> Second, yes, it will stick to the hair better if you first damage the
> hair with bleach. If you don't want to really bleach the hair,
> bleaching effect. (A bleach kit would be peroxide plus something like
> ammonium persulfate or other extremely caustic chemical.) Basically,
> leaving it in for an hour.) I'm told using a hair dryer to bake it into
> the hair (thus damaging the hair) will also help. A friend has also
> recommended not washing the hair for the first couple days but I haven't
> tried that.
> damages the hair, and makes more color wash out.) And absolutely,
OR, YOU COULD JUST NOT DYE YOUR HAIR, BOZO!
HTH, HAND, WTF!
--
TimC -- http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/staff/tconnors/
Disclaimer: This post owned by the owner
David O'Bedlam
> On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Stacia The Avocado Avenger wrote:
> [...]
> > "Permanent" is so wrong. A friend once used deep black "Loving Care"
> > temporary hair dye for his Halloween 'do, and it lasted longer than my
> > most recent foray into the bright reds.
> I used to use whatever Blue Black was on sale, then I quit bothering
> and just let it grow out: for about five years I walked around with
> two-tone hair, brown on top with a foot-long fringe of black across
> the bottom.It faded a bit but never very much. Then I gave up and got
> it cut. So in my case it *was* permanent; I'm not sure why, something
> in the water or in the "specialness" of my hair or something.
Anything smashingly hulky in that paragraph?
> These days I'm Not Allowed to die my hair, cut my hair short, shave
> my head, or wear my bib overalls and/or the T-shirt with the kitties
> on it in public. My life is so HARD, don't you agree!
Or that one?
And direct followups to Stacia Herself too. But of course nobody
who sweeps *their* generalizations at *me* noticed: they've all
so manboyishly plonked me, except for Darla who's ignoring me.
And Stacia, perhaps masochistically, only squeaks up to me when
I've said something MEAN to her. That's what she responds to
so it must be what she likes -- which means it's silly for her
to go play the victim too. That's having it both ways, you know.
I'll never learn. Why do I keep feeling disappointed at the
(near but not total) dearth of intelligent life in dis froup?
("Dis froup" by the way is how we used to put it on alt.angst
back in 1994, you know.)
D.
--
"You're too stupid to be a CIA agent." - Steve "stevet" Thompson, to me
------------------------------------------------------------------------
(C) 2004 by 'TheDavid^TM' | David, P.O. Box 21403, Louisville, KY 40221
David DeLaney
>"Talysman the Ur-Beatle" <talysma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> also, I am older than one of the Terris, but not both.
>>
>> especially not TOGETHER.
>
>and all?
Maybe he just means that the two (three, N, whatever) of you, when together,
make everyone else FEEL really old?
Dave "emitting agathic radiation, or some such, once critical mass is reached?"
Otto Bahn
> >> Name me one thing in the
> >> Universe that really is
> >> permanent, other than
> >> stupidity.
> >
> >Entropy.
>
> Bureaucracy.
Casey Kasem.
--oTTo--
Talysman the Ur-Beatle
> "Talysman the Ur-Beatle" <talysma...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:Xns95339DAA9B6A2...@64.164.98.29:
>> also, I am older than one of the Terris, but not both.
>>
>> especially not TOGETHER.
>>
>
> But,how would you really know,on account of your mis-remembering
> problem and all?
um.
I don't have a MEMORY problem.
I have a FACIAL RECOGNITION problem.
which, admittedly, affects my ability to remember faces, but (as far as I
know) numbers are FACELESS.
the problem with remembering what *I* look like is this: I have a
particular image of the way I look, which, unfortunately, doesn't always
match reality, because my hair might grow longer (if I'm not paying
attention) or my face might get sunburned or something, and then I look
over and think "do I look like THAT?"
because: facial recognition problem, you see.
James Kibo Parry
> >
> > Talysman the Ur-Beatle (talysma...@gmail.com) wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > especially not TOGETHER.
> >
> > But,how would you really know,on account of your mis-remembering
> > problem and all?
>
> um.
>
> I don't have a MEMORY problem.
>
> I have a FACIAL RECOGNITION problem.
>
> which, admittedly, affects my ability to remember faces, but
> (as far as I know) numbers are FACELESS.
>
> the problem with remembering what *I* look like is this: I have a
> particular image of the way I look, which, unfortunately, doesn't always
> match reality, because my hair might grow longer (if I'm not paying
> attention) or my face might get sunburned or something, and then I look
> over and think "do I look like THAT?"
>
> because: facial recognition problem, you see.
So Talysman, have you yet reached the stage of prosopagnosia that you
get really tired of explaining it?
"I need you to find me at the airport -- I won't be able to spot
you, because I have prosopagnosia, which is the inability to
recognize faces..."
"I have trouble remembering what name goes with what face too.
Have you tried paying more attention?"
"No, it's not even remotely the same thing. Do you go around
telling color-blind people to try harder to see colors?
The reason this condition is often called 'face-blindness'
is that I can't even _perceive_ the face in the first place.
My memory is just fine, my eyes are just fine, my cognition
is just fine, I simply can't tell your face from, say, your ass."
"Oh. So, did you have to go to one of those special shools
with all the other retarded kids in your area?"
(Sound of someone getting their face broken, or maybe their ass)
Every time I dye my hair, I'm startled every time I go past a mirror
for the next wek or two. But once I absorb the fact that I have hair
of some particular vivid color, then at least I have some sort of
conception of what I look like.
Hair does not count as part of the face as far as neurology goes --
I can recognize hair, not faces. I also recognize eyeglasses, articles
of clothing, general color preferences, stride, hand movements, all
sorts of little Sherlock Holmes clues most people don't pay that much
attention to because they have an automatic alternative. When I look
at someone, I have to consciously dissect them looking for these clues
because I'm missing the little magical node that just sees a face
and goes "Ding! That's so-and-so's face!"
Normally I can see faces to some degree, it's just that they don't
look special enough to be recognizable -- looking at two faces is
like looking at, say, two similar rocks (there have to be accessories
or flaws or context around the rocks to make them distinctive enough
to tell apart without a deliberate geometric analysis) but I do
once in a while momentarily lose the ability to see faces at all,
usually after I've been greatly sensorily overstimulated (this means
an afternoon at the mall, where there's a constant riot of color
and sound.) In such cases, people start turning into parts of the
wallpaper and mannequins start turning into people. It's quite
interesting, but it can also be a somewhat frustrating state
leading to embarassment where I stare at some unrecognizable object
trying to figure out what the heck it could be (sculpture? mannequin?
poster?) and then I realize it's glowering back at me because it's
a live person.
Not everyone with prosopagnosia has the same degree of impairment,
of course. And since it's some sort of bizarre conceptual disorder
rather than, say, an opaque blotch in the middle of one eyeball,
I can't just draw a picture and say "My world looks like _this_!"
in the same way that you can't draw a picture of what your blind
spot looks like -- it simply isn't there. It's not a color, it's
not a shape, it doesn't have edges, it's just a place where you
understand you can't look, a concept rather than an image.
That's the way faces are to me. They're mysterious things that
seem to mean something to other people but to me they're one of the
least important parts of a person's body, like an elbow or something.
The fascinating part is how specific this impairment is -- I can
normally see faces in enough detail to be able to describe one
(if I'm looking at it), sketch it, and so on. I can see the
color of the eyes and I can study the way the muscles move to express
emotions (some people with different visual agnosias can recognize
faces but _not_ expressions!) But overall it's like looking at
a rock or a cloud or a wad of cookie dough -- I'm seeing something
that just doesn't seem distinctive, even when I'm looking in the mirror.
Some prosopagnosiacs don't believe in cosmetics and hair styling
because faces are so unimportant to them, and some prosopagnosiacs
go the opposite route of adopting highly recognizable looks so
they can have an easier self-description. Last year I was
"police jacket, hockey jersey, nerd glasses, period haircut" and
now I'm "black leather, sunglasses, brilliantly-colored hair."
Maybe next year I'll wear a Barney costume all the time.
-- K.
OR MAYBE I'LL JUST SNAP
AND START STAPLING NAMETAGS
TO PEOPLE'S FACES!
Kevin S. Wilson
<thed...@shell.rawbw.com> wrote:
>they've all
>so manboyishly plonked me
In return, you've morphed--twice now. You really do have a desperate
need for attention, don't you?
Spare us the long-winded explanation of how you're not really morphing
and the equally long-winded explanation of how to more effectively
killfile you. We've already heard it from every k00k who came before
you.
Like I said elsewhere, you are predictable.
Kevin S. Wilson
>But,how would you really know,on account of your mis-remembering problem
>and all?
I dunno, but I have hope for a full recovery because Ron Reagan, Jr.
told the Democrats last night that he's a big fan of stem-cell
research and that they should be, too.
Kevin S. Wilson
Parry) wrote:
>Normally I can see faces to some degree, it's just that they don't
>look special enough to be recognizable -- looking at two faces is
>like looking at, say, two similar rocks (there have to be accessories
>or flaws or context around the rocks to make them distinctive enough
>to tell apart without a deliberate geometric analysis)
Okay, so here's the part I don't get: Given your prosopagnosia, how do
you account for what appears to be an encyclopedic knowledge of
B-movie actors, third-tier comedians, and TV sitcom bit characters? I
would think you would be the guy forever saying, "You know the guy I
mean? He was in that one show that time? You know, with the pony? And
the girl? What's his name?"
Otto Bahn
> >But,how would you really know,on account of your mis-remembering problem
> >and all?
>
> I dunno, but I have hope for a full recovery because Ron Reagan, Jr.
> told the Democrats last night that he's a big fan of stem-cell
> research and that they should be, too.
ME BIGGEST FAN!!!!!!1!!!11!!
Stem-Cell Research lost in double overtime to Cancer Vaccines
last night. Fortunately they have an easy game tonight against
Hypothermia and should get back on track. They'll probably
get pasted on Friday by Bone Marrow Transplant (which ironically
steals a lot of players from Stem Cell), but on Saturday they get
a double header with Homeopathy and should sweep that one.
Homeopathy got its first win of the season recently against
the hapless Thalidomide team, which is pretty much a lock to
be relegated to Division B next year.
--oTTo--
Talysman the Ur-Beatle
> Talysman the Ur-Beatle (talysma...@gmail.com) wrote:
>>
>> dogsnus (dog...@micron.net) wrote:
>> >
>> > Talysman the Ur-Beatle (talysma...@gmail.com) wrote:
>> > >
>> > > also, I am older than one of the Terris, but not both.
>> > >
>> > > especially not TOGETHER.
>> >
>> > But,how would you really know,on account of your mis-remembering
>> > problem and all?
>>
>> um.
>>
>> I don't have a MEMORY problem.
>>
>> I have a FACIAL RECOGNITION problem.
>>
>> which, admittedly, affects my ability to remember faces, but
>> (as far as I know) numbers are FACELESS.
>>
>> the problem with remembering what *I* look like is this: I have a
>> particular image of the way I look, which, unfortunately, doesn't
>> always match reality, because my hair might grow longer (if I'm not
>> paying attention) or my face might get sunburned or something, and
>> then I look over and think "do I look like THAT?"
>>
>> because: facial recognition problem, you see.
>
>
> So Talysman, have you yet reached the stage of prosopagnosia that you
> get really tired of explaining it?
not quite yet, because I only just started to tell people I'm faceblind.
the big-ass prosopagnosia discussion here in ARK some time ago -- the one
that devolved into bitter recriminations -- was my "coming out". and I
only started telling actual people (instead of imaginary ARK denizens)
this past month. I haven't decided how many other neurological issues I
want to discuss with anyone, and the way things are going with the
faceblindness, I may never discuss anything else ever again.
prior to that ARK post, the most I ever explained my condition was to say
"I have problems recognizing people". no one ever asked any questions
about what I meant by that, probably because they didn't care.
and until about 5-8 years ago, I didn't even know what faceblindness
*was*, and I believed all that bullshit about how it's some kinf of
memory or attention problem. I was very into memory systems, like the
Bruno Furst memory course they used to advertise in Scientific American
twenty-some years ago. but, of course, I don't have a *memory* problem,
so those courses didn't improve my facial recognition. really, my memory
is pretty good, especially in a few Rainman-esque areas. for example, for
80-90% of the 2,000+ movies I've seen, I can remember where I was when I
saw it, in reasonably vivid detail. this of course is completely useless
information: why would I need to know that I watched 2001 the first time
on a black-and-white tv in my bedroom in Rantoul, Illinois, or that after
my parents went to bed, I snuck out and got to see the psychedelic ending
in full color on the console tv my dad built from a kit he ordered from
Heathkit? why would I need to know that I watched Krull on a 13-inch
color portable that I drug into the backyard when I was living in
Lincoln, California? also, if my memory of my tv-watching environment is
so ridiculously detailed, why can't I remember which movie I was watching
when I was attacked by baby frogs on the back porch of that same house?
I'm about to have an interesting experiencing this weekend, I believe.
some art therapy student wants to meet with me about a facial recognition
study. I figured it would be interesting, mainly to have some kind of
formal assessment of my prosopagnosia. I'm not so sure about this
person's thesis, since I quite frankly think that teaching people to draw
isn't going to cure faceblindness. I'm not much of an artist, but I'm
better than average; I wanted to be a cartoonist at one point. oddly
enough, although she asked for a case history on my faceblindness, she
didn't ask if I had an art background. hmmm. also, she arranged to meet
me in a public place, WITHOUT TELLING ME HOW SHE WILL BE DRESSED. or any
other method of recognition.
my particular condition is probably not very severe. there are certain
facial features that I can recognize; I can remember if someone has a
very acquiline nose, for example, or a jutting unibrow. and people that I
see a lot of occasionally "stick", and I can picture their faces,
although there are always fuzzy parts. also, although I don't recognize
people immediately, some people I will recognize after 10-15 minutes,
after all the damage is done.
I had two interesting faceblindness-related incidents last night, one of
which illustrates this. I went to a LiveJournal meet-up (GASP! THE
HORROR!) one person there thought he recognized me, but he wasn't sure,
so it wasn't very embarrassing. however, after about 10 minutes, I said,
"did you work for [ISP DELETED]?" and yes, he did; we probably saw each
other there. I consider this to be a triumph of my glacial face
recognition abilities, even though objectively my voice recognition
skills were probably the real reason for the recognition.
the other incident was someone arriving and headin STRAIGHT TOWARDS ME
saying "YES! I RECOGNIZE YOU!" I sure didn't recognize *her*. turns out
we hadn't met, she was recognizing me based on my LJ picture, so I was
able to save myself some embarrassment -- although truthfully, I had seen
pictures of her; she just didn't look the same to me.
but don't tell her.
Dusty
"Many, maybe most, face-blind people do not use cosmetics and
hairstyling except when it is expected by society."
http://www.prosopagnosia.com/main/stones/index.asp
As such I want you to know that I EXPECT you to use hairstyling in the
future not hair colouring.
James Kibo Parry did not write:
>
> -- K.
>
> OR MAYBE I'LL JUST SNAP
> AND START STAPLING PEOPLE'S
> FACES TO NAMETAGS!
That'll work for me.
--
Yeh I know I cut corners but I am saving all that metaspace.
+ +
+ +
Talysman the Ur-Beatle
> On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 15:47:36 -0400, ki...@world.std.com (James "Kibo"
> Parry) wrote:
>
>>Normally I can see faces to some degree, it's just that they don't
>>look special enough to be recognizable -- looking at two faces is
>>like looking at, say, two similar rocks (there have to be accessories
>>or flaws or context around the rocks to make them distinctive enough
>>to tell apart without a deliberate geometric analysis)
>
> Okay, so here's the part I don't get: Given your prosopagnosia, how do
> you account for what appears to be an encyclopedic knowledge of
> B-movie actors, third-tier comedians, and TV sitcom bit characters? I
> would think you would be the guy forever saying, "You know the guy I
> mean? He was in that one show that time? You know, with the pony? And
> the girl? What's his name?"
>
um, that's easy.
most of those people are *character actors*, and they are hired for the
peculiar uniquenesses of their faces. they don't look like all you other
clones. plus, don't overlook voice and gesture data.
I tend not to memorize names of actors, but I can recognize a lot of
those character actors. like, there was a recent thread when Kibo
mentioned Al Molinara (?) and I didn't know who that was, until he (Kibo)
said "he was Al on `Happy Days'" and I got a pretty distinct visual image
of his face, because yes, he's got a face that only a faceblind person
could love.
same way with that one guy who played a barkeep on Star Trek's "The
Trouble With Tribbles" episode. when I saw the Twilight Zone Movie, it
was obvious to me that he was playing the father of the kid who took Bill
Mumy's place. I recognize *him*, even though I don't remember that his
name is William Schallert without looking it up in IMDB.
this is one reason why I don't like many hollywood blockbusters.
beginning sometime in the '70s, hollywood started breeding "perfect
actors" who all looked as closely alike as possible. I first noticed a
problem when I tried to watch "Eye of the Needle". I saw the first half
of that movie *twice* and I couldn't figure out who was killing whom.
another movie I had a problem with was "L. A. Confidential". apparently,
not being able to tell the difference between Guy Pearce and Russell
Penguine makes the plot unintelligible.
superhero movies are different, of course, because they wear costumes.
the whole *point* of wearing a costume is to make you easily
identifiable.
The Avocado Avenger
>dogsnus <dog...@micron.net> wrote:
>> But,how would you really know,on account of your mis-remembering
>> problem and all?
>um.
>I don't have a MEMORY problem.
Yes, you do, you just keep forgetting that you do. You should have it
tattooed backwards on your chest.
>I have a FACIAL RECOGNITION problem.
That's silly. You can't see faces on Usenet!
Jeremy D. Impson
> "Talysman the Ur-Beatle" <talysma...@gmail.com> writes:
[...]
>> I have a FACIAL RECOGNITION problem.
>
> That's silly. You can't see faces on Usenet!
Talysman can, because he doesn't use crummy old non-X-face capable nn like
YOU DO!!
--Jeremy
The Avocado Avenger
>Yeh I know I cut corners but I am saving all that metaspace.
I really thought your .sig said "meatspace". You should change it to
suit my whim.
OK thanks.
Glenn Knickerbocker
>I'm about to have an interesting experiencing this weekend, I believe.
>some art therapy student wants to meet with me about a facial recognition
>study. I figured it would be interesting, mainly to have some kind of
>formal assessment of my prosopagnosia. I'm not so sure about this
>person's thesis, since I quite frankly think that teaching people to draw
>isn't going to cure faceblindness.
I would guess just the opposite, in fact. Faceblindness probably makes
it *easier* for you to draw a face than for us people who see a whole
face without picking out specific features from it. My guess is that
learning to draw would positively reinforce faceblindness.
ŹR <-> "The way police in Rio de Janeiro kill street children makes me
http://users.bestweb.net/~notr/hassel.html <-> pouty!" --Robert Caponi
David DeLaney
>d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote in
>> Maybe he just means that the two (three, N, whatever) of you, when
>> together, make everyone else FEEL really old?
>>
>> Dave "emitting agathic radiation, or some such, once critical mass is
>> reached?"
>> DeLaney
>
>You wouldn't by any chance be running for the Presidential Office,would you?
Not with who's CURRENTLY in it, no, ewww. Get Clinton back there and we'll
TALK.
> DELANEY FOR PREZ!
>Terri-wondering if she can make some Delaney quilted campaign dolls.
I -do- have this squared-square pattern sitting patiently in a grocery bag in
my living room, which I figure at this point I'll get to some time in 2036...
...holy crap, I _am_ old enough now to be President! PH3AR MY P0TENt!ALLy
EL3CTA8LE S3LF!!1!
Dave "hey, if they gave ME a Q clearance, ANYTHING is possible" DeLaney
James Kibo Parry
> >
> > [...]
> > So Talysman, have you yet reached the stage of prosopagnosia that you
> > get really tired of explaining it?
>
> not quite yet, because I only just started to tell people I'm faceblind.
> the big-ass prosopagnosia discussion here in ARK some time ago -- the one
>
> prior to that ARK post, the most I ever explained my condition was to say
> "I have problems recognizing people". no one ever asked any questions
> about what I meant by that, probably because they didn't care.
I think it's more likely because everyone considers themselves to be
bad at "matching names to faces". For some reason, everyone who
hasn't memorized the mugshots and vital stats of everyone they've ever
met has been convinced they're somehow subnormal. Someday I'd like
to meet whoever actually has photographic memory and curse them out
for making all the normals feel insecure about having the normal
hit-or-miss memory.
> and until about 5-8 years ago, I didn't even know what faceblindness
> *was*, and I believed all that bullshit about how it's some kinf of
> memory or attention problem. I was very into memory systems, like the
> Bruno Furst memory course they used to advertise in Scientific American
> twenty-some years ago. but, of course, I don't have a *memory* problem,
> so those courses didn't improve my facial recognition. really, my memory
> is pretty good, especially in a few Rainman-esque areas. for example, for
> 80-90% of the 2,000+ movies I've seen, I can remember where I was when I
> saw it, in reasonably vivid detail. this of course is completely useless
> information: why would I need to know that I watched 2001 the first time
> on a black-and-white tv in my bedroom in Rantoul, Illinois, or that after
> my parents went to bed, I snuck out and got to see the psychedelic ending
> in full color on the console tv my dad built from a kit he ordered from
> Heathkit? why would I need to know that I watched Krull on a 13-inch
> color portable that I drug into the backyard when I was living in
> Lincoln, California? also, if my memory of my tv-watching environment is
> so ridiculously detailed, why can't I remember which movie I was watching
> when I was attacked by baby frogs on the back porch of that same house?
Oh, oh, oh, I just gotta know about the baby frog attack. How did you survive?
> I'm about to have an interesting experiencing this weekend, I believe.
> some art therapy student wants to meet with me about a facial recognition
> study. I figured it would be interesting, mainly to have some kind of
> formal assessment of my prosopagnosia. I'm not so sure about this
> person's thesis, since I quite frankly think that teaching people to draw
> isn't going to cure faceblindness. I'm not much of an artist, but I'm
> better than average; I wanted to be a cartoonist at one point. oddly
> enough, although she asked for a case history on my faceblindness, she
> didn't ask if I had an art background. hmmm. also, she arranged to meet
> me in a public place, WITHOUT TELLING ME HOW SHE WILL BE DRESSED. or any
> other method of recognition.
Well, see, one of the rules is that she has to meet you in a public place
so that she can escape if you turn out to be a psycho.
I remember that in seventh or eighth grade we had to do that silly
art-class exercise from "Drawing On The Right Side Of The Brain" where
we had to copy a drawing of a face that was right-side-up, and then
again when it was upside-down to get us to focus more on technique and
quality of line after the face was changed into an abstract collection
of curves. I found it pointless because turning the face upside-down
didn't change the way I perceived it at all. It was one of those
"this is supposed to freak you out" learning experiences that just
didn't work. (I am immune to certain optical illusions involving faces,
but not others.)
> my particular condition is probably not very severe. there are certain
> facial features that I can recognize; I can remember if someone has a
> very acquiline nose, for example, or a jutting unibrow. and people that I
> see a lot of occasionally "stick", and I can picture their faces,
> although there are always fuzzy parts. also, although I don't recognize
> people immediately, some people I will recognize after 10-15 minutes,
> after all the damage is done.
Yeah, I can recognize certain people at certain times too, but it's
not easy.
Remembering Boolean attributes of faces is certainly possible ("has
broken nose", "has brown eyes", etc.) but if you asked me to describe
someone to a police sketch-artist, I couldn't do it except for those
one or two special attributes, even if I was told to describe myself
or my own mother. I could get the hair color and that would be about
it, because when I'm not looking at a face it just goes away, never having
gotten interpreted as a chunk of face data to be placed into memory.
If I look at a face, I can analyze it and describe it, but I still have
little chance of recognizing it unless it has some distinctive feature.
Like you, I have a strong visual memory, and I've found that I can
recognize people in photos far more easily than I can recognize
three-dimensional people, especially if I've ever seen the photo before.
So I just need to get people to wear nametags with their own mugshot
on them (you know, like on the second season of "Space: 1999") because
if they always have the same mugshot, I can recognize that. Recognizing
a photo I've seen before -- whether it's a face or a Mark Rothko abstract --
is a snap compared to recognizing a moving, changing human face.
Don't get me started about why I don't just recognize people by their
voices. (My auditory agnosia is less severe than my prosopagnosia,
but just as complicatedly specific. You may have noticed that the
only music I can enjoy consists of soundtracks to TV shows and movies.
I am the person who _needs_ music videos.)
-- K.
I still think everything
would be easier for me if
you guys wore Darth Vader
masks at all times. Please?
James Kibo Parry
> >
> > Okay, so here's the part I don't get: Given your prosopagnosia, how do
> > you account for what appears to be an encyclopedic knowledge of
> > B-movie actors, third-tier comedians, and TV sitcom bit characters? I
> > would think you would be the guy forever saying, "You know the guy I
> > mean? He was in that one show that time? You know, with the pony? And
> > the girl? What's his name?"
>
> peculiar uniquenesses of their faces. they don't look like all you other
> clones. plus, don't overlook voice and gesture data.
And the stylized way people are presented in movies and on TV shows.
Think about it: In real life, people's heads are oriented any which way,
the bad lighting is constantly changing, etc., whereas in movies,
they're all in three-quarter view all the time, they're all carefully-lit,
they're wearing pancake makeup, their hair is carefully styled, and so on.
> I tend not to memorize names of actors, but I can recognize a lot of
> those character actors. like, there was a recent thread when Kibo
> mentioned Al Molinara (?) and I didn't know who that was, until he (Kibo)
> said "he was Al on `Happy Days'" and I got a pretty distinct visual image
> of his face, because yes, he's got a face that only a faceblind person
> could love.
Al Molinaro with an "o" and a giant schnoz. The On-Cor Two-Pound
Family-Size Frozen Entree spokesman, as well as Murray The Cop on
"The Odd Couple". And hell yes, anyone like us can recognize his
_insane_ nose from a mile away.
> same way with that one guy who played a barkeep on Star Trek's "The
> Trouble With Tribbles" episode. when I saw the Twilight Zone Movie, it
> was obvious to me that he was playing the father of the kid who took Bill
> Mumy's place. I recognize *him*, even though I don't remember that his
> name is William Schallert without looking it up in IMDB.
William Schallert wasn't the barkeep -- he was Nilz Baris, the Federation
representative. The barkeep looked vaguely similar enough (in terms
of hair color and facial shape) that I can see why you'd conflate them.
STOP CONFLATING WILLIAM SCHALLERT! YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO THAT WITH
HIS DAUGHTER AND HER IDENTICAL BUT EVIL TWIN SISTER!
> this is one reason why I don't like many hollywood blockbusters.
> beginning sometime in the '70s, hollywood started breeding "perfect
> actors" who all looked as closely alike as possible. I first noticed a
> problem when I tried to watch "Eye of the Needle". I saw the first half
> of that movie *twice* and I couldn't figure out who was killing whom.
> another movie I had a problem with was "L. A. Confidential". apparently,
> not being able to tell the difference between Guy Pearce and Russell
> Penguine makes the plot unintelligible.
Yeah, I hate movies that have three or four people who all wish
they were Pierce Brosnan. Part of this is that they want to get
"someone like Pierce Brosnan" to play the lead, and then they send
out a casting call, and then to save money they give all the
rejects supporting roles.
> superhero movies are different, of course, because they wear costumes.
> the whole *point* of wearing a costume is to make you easily
> identifiable.
Yeah, but I still say that if someone made a movie where all the
actors were wearing hooded black bodysuits all the time, it would
actually make it easier for me to tell them apart (by cutting down
on the extra channels of information that just confuse me, and
making it easier to focus on body language, which is very important
for me.) With masks, everything works backwards for me -- if
everyone put on a Darth Vader mask, most people would have problems
because they would normally rely on instantaneous facial recognition,
whereas those of us who have to deliberately analyze details of
what we see would be noticing which mask has a little nick above
the left eye, which mask has some scratches on the right cheek, etc.
It's a disorder that makes you study everything closely. We naturally
become art critics. I think prosopagnosia also tends to make people
collect things, and be fascinated by any concept involving variations
on a theme.
-- K.
(I'll wager I can recognize more
printers' typefaces than just about
anyone. Too bad there's no way
to be paid to do that.)
Chris Franks
the way things are going with the
> faceblindness, I may never discuss anything else ever again.
Talysman, if you were confused watching the music video "Addicted
to Love" with Robert Palmer, that was normal. Maybe the way that
looks to the rest of us is how everyone looks to you.
James Kibo Parry
>
> Talysman, if you were confused watching the music video "Addicted
> to Love" with Robert Palmer, that was normal. Maybe the way that
> looks to the rest of us is how everyone looks to you.
What about the construction worker's "I Love You To Death" number
in "Can't Stop The Music"? That confuses me because not only do all
the early-Eighties gals look identical, but they're also identical
to the Robert Palmer girls, and also the construction worker is
apparently a straight misogynist for the duration of that video.
After watching the Village People's movie, you'll be confused
in strange new ways.
-- K.
I firmly believe that
that movie is the main
reason "Bruce" became
the gayest name ever.
(Yeah, I know that they changed The Incredible Hulk's real name from
"Bruce Banner" to "David Banner" two years before that movie because
"Bruce" had already become an unpopular name with homophobes, but I
can't figure out why it picked up that association, so let's just
blame it on Bruce Jenner and his old nose.)
Talysman the Ur-Beatle
> Talysman the Ur-Beatle (talysma...@gmail.com) wrote:
>> and until about 5-8 years ago, I didn't even know what faceblindness
>> *was*, and I believed all that bullshit about how it's some kinf of
>> memory or attention problem. I was very into memory systems, like
>> the Bruno Furst memory course they used to advertise in Scientific
>> American twenty-some years ago. but, of course, I don't have a
>> *memory* problem, so those courses didn't improve my facial
>> recognition. really, my memory is pretty good, especially in a few
>> Rainman-esque areas. for example, for 80-90% of the 2,000+ movies
>> I've seen, I can remember where I was when I saw it, in reasonably
>> vivid detail. this of course is completely useless information: why
>> would I need to know that I watched 2001 the first time on a
>> black-and-white tv in my bedroom in Rantoul, Illinois, or that after
>> my parents went to bed, I snuck out and got to see the psychedelic
>> ending in full color on the console tv my dad built from a kit he
>> ordered from Heathkit? why would I need to know that I watched Krull
>> on a 13-inch color portable that I drug into the backyard when I was
>> living in Lincoln, California? also, if my memory of my tv-watching
>> environment is so ridiculously detailed, why can't I remember which
>> movie I was watching when I was attacked by baby frogs on the back
>> porch of that same house?
>
> Oh, oh, oh, I just gotta know about the baby frog attack. How did you
> survive?
who says I did?
< eerie orchestral sting! >
ok, actually, what happened was this: I and a friend were watching a
movie on the back porch, aka `my bedroom', which I was forced to share
with the washing machine and dryer. because, apparently, I'm cinderfella.
anyways, my friend noticed a baby frog, so we caught it an put it
outside. then we found another one. and another. the damned things were
coming out of the overflow pipe for the washing machine. I think we
caught something like 20 or 30 frogs that night, which may be why I can't
remember what movie we were watching, although I know it was the CBS Late
Night Movie.
>> I'm about to have an interesting experiencing this weekend, I
>> believe. some art therapy student wants to meet with me about a
>> facial recognition study. I figured it would be interesting, mainly
>> to have some kind of formal assessment of my prosopagnosia. I'm not
>> so sure about this person's thesis, since I quite frankly think that
>> teaching people to draw isn't going to cure faceblindness. I'm not
>> much of an artist, but I'm better than average; I wanted to be a
>> cartoonist at one point. oddly enough, although she asked for a case
>> history on my faceblindness, she didn't ask if I had an art
>> background. hmmm. also, she arranged to meet me in a public place,
>> WITHOUT TELLING ME HOW SHE WILL BE DRESSED. or any other method of
>> recognition.
>
> Well, see, one of the rules is that she has to meet you in a public
> place so that she can escape if you turn out to be a psycho.
well, yeah, and I'm worried *she* might be a psycho, too, but still, I
think it's a good idea that *one* of us actually knows what the other
person looks like. maybe she plans on asking everyone going into the
library if they're me.
> Like you, I have a strong visual memory, and I've found that I can
> recognize people in photos far more easily than I can recognize
> three-dimensional people, especially if I've ever seen the photo
> before. So I just need to get people to wear nametags with their own
> mugshot on them (you know, like on the second season of "Space: 1999")
> because if they always have the same mugshot, I can recognize that.
> Recognizing a photo I've seen before -- whether it's a face or a Mark
> Rothko abstract -- is a snap compared to recognizing a moving,
> changing human face.
actually, I dunno if I can say I have a strong visual memory or not.
like, for example, I just now looked over through my kitchen doorway and
noticed there are yellow tiles above my sink. I've lived in this
apartment for five years now, and I'm sure on some level I was aware of
this, but if someone had asked me yesterday to describe my kitchen, I
probably wouldn't have mentioned the tiles. this may just be an INTP
thing; like most INTPs, I pretty much ignore the external world except
where it's important, i.e. it has something to do with TV.
> Don't get me started about why I don't just recognize people by their
> voices. (My auditory agnosia is less severe than my prosopagnosia,
> but just as complicatedly specific. You may have noticed that the
> only music I can enjoy consists of soundtracks to TV shows and movies.
> I am the person who _needs_ music videos.)
I did notice that, and that's definitely a difference. I think I have
stronger auditory recognition than most people, including auditory
memory. I'm not much of a musician, but when I do play something on the
recorder, I learn it by ear. sometimes, I try to play melodies I haven't
heard in years, but I can still "hear" them in my head.
moreso than sound, though, I tend to remember the world around me in
terms of concepts and meanings instead of actual experiences.
Talysman the Ur-Beatle
news:kibo-29070...@10.0.1.2:
> It's a disorder that makes you study everything closely. We naturally
> become art critics. I think prosopagnosia also tends to make people
> collect things, and be fascinated by any concept involving variations
> on a theme.
nah, I think that's aspergers or high-end autistic traits. which is
*another* matter I've been thinking about lately. but I'm not really ready
to go spreadin' that batch of laundry around in public, just yet.
Mark Hill
> I still think everything
> would be easier for me if
> you guys wore Darth Vader
> masks at all times. Please?
I *WAS* wearing a Darth Vader mask. You couldn't tell?
David DeLaney
>nah, I think that's aspergers or high-end autistic traits. which is
>*another* matter I've been thinking about lately. but I'm not really ready
>to go spreadin' that batch of laundry around in public, just yet.
ONE UF OS. GABBA GABBA HEY.
Dave "high-end on life" DeLaney
mh...@epicentre.net
James Kibo Parry
> > > watching when I was attacked by baby frogs on the back porch
> > > of that same house?
> >
> > Oh, oh, oh, I just gotta know about the baby frog attack. How did you
> > survive?
>
> who says I did?
>
> < eerie orchestral sting! >
>
> ok, actually, what happened was this: I and a friend were watching a
> movie on the back porch, aka `my bedroom', which I was forced to share
> with the washing machine and dryer. because, apparently, I'm cinderfella.
> anyways, my friend noticed a baby frog, so we caught it an put it
> outside. then we found another one. and another. the damned things were
> coming out of the overflow pipe for the washing machine. I think we
> caught something like 20 or 30 frogs that night, which may be why I can't
> remember what movie we were watching, although I know it was the CBS Late
> Night Movie.
It's obvious. The reasons you can't remember what movie it was
were that (a) nobody can remember any of the movies that were
on "The CBS Late Movie" because they were are really forgettable
and (b) most of them were just "Columbo" or "Streets Of San Francisco"
or "Salvage One" reruns. The only actual "movie" movie I ever
taped off "The CBS Late Movie" was a terribly pretentious, self-important
extruded film-major product called "The Kirlian Witness", in which the
only witness to a murder is a potted plant, and the plant's not talking.
Will the cops photograph its aura in time?
> > > [...] also, she arranged to meet me in a public place,
> > > WITHOUT TELLING ME HOW SHE WILL BE DRESSED.
> >
> > Well, see, one of the rules is that she has to meet you in a public
> > place so that she can escape if you turn out to be a psycho.
>
> well, yeah, and I'm worried *she* might be a psycho, too, but still, I
> think it's a good idea that *one* of us actually knows what the other
> person looks like. maybe she plans on asking everyone going into the
> library if they're me.
How do you know they're not? Have _you_ asked all of them whether they're you?
Who do you think all those other people are -- Shelly Berman?
> [...]
>
> moreso than sound, though, I tend to remember the world around me in
> terms of concepts and meanings instead of actual experiences.
Another reason you'll never remember anything from "The CBS Late Movie",
which contained no concepts, no meanings, and certainly no actual
experiences unless you count Andy Griffith flying to the moon in an
old cement mixer.
I wish I had that series on DVD. I recall it was one of those
series where half the writing staff took it completely seriously
and wrote ernest bad sci-fi and the other half treated it as
wacky camp, and they all collaborated on every script so you could
never tell whether it was Failed Attempts At Manly Adventure
or Intentional Crapola For Stoners And Toddlers. There was a
real air of "We can't stand to be writing this stuff." in some
of the scripts, and a gentle insanity to others, with the
show's campy center shielded by a thick coating of lameness.
-- K.
What were those writers
sniffing -- monohydrazine?
Marc Goodman
Shakespeare's "Twelfth Night." The play always seemed
incredibly lame to me. It's a mistaken identity play
about a brother and sister who supposedly look alike.
But, I mean, come on. Not one of the Bard's best works.
But to someone with Prosopagnosia, this strained conceit
might actually be believable, or at least within the
realm of willing suspension of disbelief. It might
actually make the play not so much liek piece of
shit.
Then there are "Much Ado about Nothing" and "Comedy of
Errors." Maybe Shakespeare was Prosopagnostic.
Talysman the Ur-Beatle
>>
>> ok, actually, what happened was this: I and a friend were watching a
>> movie on the back porch, aka `my bedroom', which I was forced to
>> share with the washing machine and dryer. because, apparently, I'm
>> cinderfella. anyways, my friend noticed a baby frog, so we caught it
>> an put it outside. then we found another one. and another. the
>> damned things were coming out of the overflow pipe for the washing
>> machine. I think we caught something like 20 or 30 frogs that night,
>> which may be why I can't remember what movie we were watching,
>> although I know it was the CBS Late Night Movie.
>
> It's obvious. The reasons you can't remember what movie it was
> were that (a) nobody can remember any of the movies that were
> on "The CBS Late Movie" because they were are really forgettable
> and (b) most of them were just "Columbo" or "Streets Of San Francisco"
> or "Salvage One" reruns. The only actual "movie" movie I ever
> taped off "The CBS Late Movie" was a terribly pretentious,
> self-important extruded film-major product called "The Kirlian
> Witness", in which the only witness to a murder is a potted plant, and
> the plant's not talking. Will the cops photograph its aura in time?
this is not quite true, because I remember that one month when the CBS
Late Night Movie kept showing "Hawk the Slayer" and I watched it EVERY
TIME, just to hear Jack Palance scream "I'll see you at the fiery gates
of ... HELLLLLLL!" and then the one-armed man and the elf with the fake
ears started rapid-firing at an endless stream of hired goons.
they also showed a lot of stuff that was originally made-for-TV movies
that got shown on CBS 5-10 years earlier, like the killer bees movie that
mostly took place in a greenhouse, or the one where Andy Griffith was
electrocuting old people at a distance (this was when he was still a
sherrif and not a lawyer.) it was stuff like that I was actually
watching, because I'd seen all the Columbos and Cannons and Barnaby
Joneses and MacMillan and Wifes when they were first run.
speaking of which: Columbo and MacMillan and Wife and McCloud (another
popular series to rebundle as a movie) were all NBC series, while Kolchak
was from ABC. CBS must have been *really* lame to show the cast-offs of
another network.
>> moreso than sound, though, I tend to remember the world around me in
>> terms of concepts and meanings instead of actual experiences.
>
> Another reason you'll never remember anything from "The CBS Late
> Movie", which contained no concepts, no meanings, and certainly no
> actual experiences unless you count Andy Griffith flying to the moon
> in an old cement mixer.
I think you're forgetting that one episode where they landed their rocket
on an island and some japanese guy thought it was still World War II. you
can't beat science like that! also, wasn't there an episode where they
had to fight a biker gang?
I think that series pissed me off mainly because it's a series about a
rocket which somehow NEVER WENT INTO SPACE. they just kept landing the
damned rocket in china, africa, downtown nashville, etc. all in the quest
for ... an iceberg. that whole plot arc made no sense. they were going to
spend all that money to get one stupid iceberg to supply water. doesn't
seem very cost effective. and why was it so hard for them to accomplish
this? every episode, you got to see them debate what kind of laser they
were going to use to chop up the ice, or where they were going to get
funding from... I suppose we should count ourselves lucky that the
writers didn't go whole hog and turn the entire series into "SPACE
BUREAUCRACY! (in color)" where every episode detailed the exciting
behind-the-scenes planning that goes into putting together a long and
boring project.
fortunately, we had to wait for the ascendancy of reality tv before we
got to see such mind-numbing detail.
MarkEdwards
No cluons were harmed when James "Kibo" Parry! said
> I still think
> everything
> would be easier for
> me if
> you guys wore Darth
> Vader
> masks at all times.
> Please?
Luke, I am your... um, never mind... let's not go there, okay?
Mark Edwards
--
Proof of Sanity Forged Upon Request
Li'l Mojo Inside
> "David O'Bedlam" <thed...@shell.rawbw.com> wrote:
> >they've all so manboyishly plonked me
> In return, you've morphed--twice now.
Like I've said, I began "morphing" long before you noticed me,
for reasons I've explained. Another thing: I refuse to restrict
my freedom for the comfort of MORONS like you.
> You really do have a desperate need for attention, don't you?
Eat shit. You can't read an EMAIL ADDRESS?
I think you're just obsessed with me.
> Spare us the long-winded explanation of how you're not really morphing
> and the equally long-winded explanation of how to more effectively
> killfile you.
I.e. YOU'RE TOO *STUPID* TO WORK A KILLFILE. AND YOU BLAME THAT ON ME.
> We've already heard it from every k00k who came before you.
And you didn't learn. Idiot. Moron. BOY. And too bad for you, TheDavid
us the UBER-K00K: if you can't take it you should off Usenet, fast.
> Like I said elsewhere, you are predictable.
And YOU are very stupid. I'll bet you don't even know half the glaringly-
obvious ways you display your total ignoramity. Grow some insight, child.
When you learn to killfile me effectively, say when you've read and absorbed
my very simple instructions on how to do that, let me know. Till then, SUCK
THE VIRTUAL HORSE SHIT OFF MY VIRTUAL TOES. *SILENTLY*.
I'd plonk you but I like insulting you too much. And you, because you're
obviously obsessed, conveniently "can't" learn how NOT to read my posts.
You're so transparent it's not even pathetic.
By the way, do you suck dick as well as you suck virtual shitty toes?
If so, sorry, come back when you've had more practice.
(Let's see if Wilson's figured out how NOT to read this, or if he does,
how to *not* follow up and to keep his twisted obsessions to himself.)
Nub,
Dabey!
P.S. SEND ME MONEY.
--
"You're too stupid to be a CIA agent." - Steve "stevet" Thompson, to me
------------------------------------------------------------------------
(C) 2004 by 'TheDavid^TM' | David, P.O. Box 21403, Louisville, KY 40221
Madge
Path:
uni-berlin.de!fu-berlin.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From:
"Li'l Mojo Inside" <thed...@shell.rawbw.com>
Newsgroups:
alt.religion.kibology, alt.thedavid, alt.angst
Subject:
Re: ATTN: Kibo (or other dye experts)
Date:
Fri, 30 Jul 2004 03:04:39 -0000
Organization:
Liberated Phlogistan
Message-ID:
<10gjem7...@corp.supernews.com>
References:
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<Pine.LNX.4.58.04...@troll.weezl.org>
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> Nub,
> Dabey!
>
> P.S. SEND ME MONEY.
>
> --
> "You're too stupid to be a CIA agent." - Steve "stevet" Thompson, to me
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> (C) 2004 by 'TheDavid^TM' | David, P.O. Box 21403, Louisville, KY 40221
--
Yeh I know I cut corners but I am saving all that metaspace.
+ +
+ +
David
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004, Madge posted the headers of my previous entry
in this thread. Fucked if I know WHY, I do credit many Kibozos with
being able to read headers at least (and I know your deity Kibo can).
Even if Kevin S. Wilson (who allegedly has this "identity" killfiled)
does have a hard time resisting a nasty little compulsion to a) read
my posts despite having claimed to killfile me and b) complain to me
about the results of said reading, conveniently forgetting that (as
far as I know) I do not totally control Kebby with my brainwaves yet.
Nor do I think I'd ever want to, given the utter shit that's all he
can give me to work with.
At the count of three, y'all will forget all about this post. 1..2..
D.
--
"I don't think that I can take it, cuz it took so long to bake it."
...................................................................
(C) 2004 TheDavid^TM | David, P.O. Box 21403, Louisville, KY 40221
Kevin S. Wilson
wrote:
>
> Talysman, if you were confused watching the music video "Addicted
>to Love" with Robert Palmer, that was normal.
Confused ain't normal. Tumescent is.
--
Kevin S. Wilson
Tech Writer at a university somewhere in Idaho
"Who put these fingerprints on my imagination?"
David
> On 28 Jul 2004 22:42:29 -0700, cfr...@citycom.com (Chris Franks)
> wrote:
> >
> > Talysman, if you were confused watching the music video "Addicted
> >to Love" with Robert Palmer, that was normal.
>
> Confused ain't normal. Tumescent is.
Heh. Kevin S. Wilson gets tumescent looking at Robert Palmer. I'll bet
he pretends he's looking at his brother, the geniosical Bill Palmer.
James Kibo Parry
>
> James "Kibo" Parry (ki...@world.std.com) wrote:
> >
> >
> > Well, see, one of the rules is that she has to meet you in a public
> > place so that she can escape if you turn out to be a psycho.
> >
> > art-class exercise from "Drawing On The Right Side Of The Brain"
> > where we had to copy a drawing of a face that was right-side-up,
> > because turning the face upside-down didn't change the way I
> > perceived it at all.
>
>
> the girl gave me the Benton Face Recognition Test
Is that the one where you have to tell News Gothic from Franklin Gothic?
> (don't know how well I did, although I think I spent a lot of time
> on each face, but got them all right.)
I've never had an official face-recognition test. However, one
Web site about prosopagnosia had an online test where I had to identify
photos, and I did above average, even on the ones where the face was
cropped down to just eyes or just a mouth. This really surprised me,
since I definitely can't do that with real people, but it was because
all the photos they used were pictures of major politicians from the
1980s (Reagan, Thatcher, etc. -- I caught on to the theme pretty fast)
and also most of the photos themselves were famous. I have no trouble
at all recognizing photos compared to recognizing people.
> then she mentioned that in future sessions we would be working with
> THIS BOOK ... and she held up the "Drawing on the Right Side of the
> Brain" workbook. I actually recognized the illustrations on
> it before, even though she had the title covered up.
Yep. I think basically not having much ability for automatic face
recognition causes you to focus so much attention on analytical
recognition of what you see that prosopagnosiacs tend to be well-
practiced at stuff like recognizing diagrams or page layouts or
typefaces or hamburgers or shoes or all that other stuff. (Most people
aren't _required_ to pay attention to people's clothing, but we are.)
> do psychologists ever actually remember stuff they learned years ago?
Depends on whether they learned it in Milgram's lab.
(I really need to get one of those white coats, now that I've got
everything else.)
> oh, and I have never heard of Notre Dame de Namur University. I wonder
> if it's in someone's garage.
It's in Atlantis. Some guy who looks like Spock in a bikini brief runs it.
Their water polo team has a long-standing rivalry with Aquaman's. The other
sport they're famous for is "globe on a stick".
Tell Wet Spock to put on some real pants.
The school's Web site says that they have a "Master Of Arts In Art Therapy"
program. I'd like to be an art therapist. People would bring paintings to
me and prop them up on my couch, and I'd talk to the painting until it
looked happier. Of course, I might find the job depressing if I spent
too much time trying to cheer up Keane paintings. Maybe I'd limit
myself to abstracts. They're easier to talk to. Or just paintings
for prosopagnosiacs, such as Tanguy's "Multiplication Of The Arcs".
That painting really likes me.
-- K.
The question is, does this
humble alt.religion.kibology
discussion contain more
insights into the perception
of prosopagnosiacs than the
entire Notre Dame de Namor
University?
Mark Hill
> oh, and I have never heard of Notre Dame de Namur University. I wonder
> if it's in someone's garage.
Belmont, California, right down the street from where I used to live. It
really exists. It only started being called a "University" a few years
ago, right around the time DeVry started being called a University, and
the Academy of Art College in San Francisco started being called a
University. Prior to that it was tiny College of Notre Dame.
Do I sound like Chris Franks now? I just got self-conscious about that
for some reason.
Joseph Michael Bay
>oh, and I have never heard of Notre Dame de Namur University. I wonder
>if it's in someone's garage.
It's in Belmont, near the race track. But! Belmont, CA, which is
weird. Also somewhat nearby is Menlo Park, CA, where Tomas Eddison
invented the lite boulb.
--
Chimes peal joy. Bah. Joseph Michael Bay
Icy colon barge Cancer Biology
Frosty divine Saturn Stanford University
www.stanford.edu/~jmbay/ fhqwhgadshgnsdhjsdbkhsdabkfabkveybvf
Eb Oesch
face-blind until I realized that none of the "people" I knew had real
faces.
Madge
>
> On Fri, 30 Jul 2004, Madge posted the headers of my previous entry
> in this thread. Fucked if I know WHY, I do credit many Kibozos with
> being able to read headers at least (and I know your deity Kibo can).
>
And then there are books like Harlan Ellison's
_I,_Robot:_The_Illustrated_Screenplay_. It is based on Asimov's work
and his name is listed on the title page together with Ellison's, but
the actual work on the screenplay is virtually all Ellison's, and it was
published in book form after Asimov's death, which makes it difficult to
know if Asimov himself would have counted it. Does it count as an
Asimov book?
So about the only definitive answer that can be provided at this point
is: An awful lot. Hundreds.
--
Yeh I know I cut corners but I am saving all that meatspace.
+ +
+ +
Madge
>
> On Sat, 31 Jul 2004, Kevin S. Wilson wrote:
> > On 28 Jul 2004 22:42:29 -0700, cfr...@citycom.com (Chris Franks)
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Talysman, if you were confused watching the music video "Addicted
> > >to Love" with Robert Palmer, that was normal.
> >
> > Confused ain't normal. Tumescent is.
>
> Heh. Kevin S. Wilson gets tumescent looking at Robert Palmer. I'll bet
> he pretends he's looking at his brother, the geniosical Bill Palmer.
>
So as you can see, many plants that are very safe (in normal dosages)
contain this chemical. So smell your Mugwort, drink Mugwort tea, smoke
it,
smear the juice all over your body on a vision-dream quest, just don't
extract pure thujone from it and snort it.
--
Jeremy D. Impson
> David wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2004, Madge posted the headers of my previous entry
>> in this thread. Fucked if I know WHY, I do credit many Kibozos with
>> being able to read headers at least (and I know your deity Kibo can).
>>
>
> And then there are books like Harlan Ellison's
>
> _I,_Robot:_The_Illustrated_Screenplay_. It is based on Asimov's work
> and his name is listed on the title page together with Ellison's, but
> the actual work on the screenplay is virtually all Ellison's, and it was
> published in book form after Asimov's death, which makes it difficult to
> know if Asimov himself would have counted it. Does it count as an
> Asimov book?
Nah. I think they did the same thing with Nightfall (AFTER they made the
REALLY WEIRD movie (with nekkid chicks)).
It's about the same as that line of Robot books that had something like:
ASIMOV's
world of robots presents:
SOME TITLE
> So about the only definitive answer that can be provided at this point
> is: An awful lot. Hundreds.
My question is "who am I talking to?".
--Jeremy
--
Jeremy Impson
jdimpson can be contacted at acm dot org
http://impson.tzo.com/~jdimpson
David
> just don't extract pure thujone from it and snort it.
Scaredy-cat. It never hurt me none!