Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

I fired the beer man!

1 view
Skip to first unread message

Tamara

unread,
May 28, 2003, 11:52:15 AM5/28/03
to
Here in Toronto, everyone delivers. FNARR. I think most of you know that I
don't go to beer, but instead, beer comes to me. There are two services
that I use for beer delivery, one called Cheers and the other, simply,
Delivery Man. Back in the days when I actually DRANK, I kept both of these
suppliers very happy.

Anyway, last night I wanted to order a case of beer so I thought back to
which service I called last. I had called Delivery Man so, this time, I
would call Cheers. So I did. Sometime around 9 p.m. Their hours of
operation are 9:30 a.m. to 9:30 p.m.

The guy showed up with the case of beer at around 10 p.m. and, being my
usual cheerful self (stop laughing), I greeted him with a smile and $40 CDN.
You have to remember that this guy is just the driver who brings beer,
alcohol and cigarette-type products to people who live in this
neighbourhood. He does NOT own the business.

So buddy says to me "Next time, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't call so
late." I reminded him that the business is open until 9:30. He griped
about the long hours he has to work. I again reminded him that the business
is open until 9:30. He complained that the dispatcher called him when he
was all the way across the city. I again reminded him that the business is
open until 9:30 and that he has competition and that I never ever have to
call Cheers again OR give him a tip. He said "Fine, be that way." That was
when the door-slamming took place.

This morning I called Cheers and told them what happened. The polite woman
on the phone apologized and apologized and said that there have been many
complaints about this guy and that they would have a talk with him today. I
was sickeningly sweet and insisted that they not be too harsh on the guy but
inside my head I was saying "FIRE THE DAMN ASSHOLE!"

I think a free case of beer will help clear this up pretty quickly.

~T (No, Nicko. This was NOT the same beer man you hugged)


hym3n_h...@salmahayeksknockers.edu

unread,
May 28, 2003, 5:34:11 PM5/28/03
to
You raise an interesting issue, Tamara: Service expectations of low-paid
staff.

A few weeks ago, some deliverymen fucked up the delivery of my bed,
thanfully, it worked out well.

I considered calling in a complaint, but ultimately decided not to, for the
reason that they're doomed to be low-pay, low-expectation grunts, and that I
didn't want to make their difficult lives more difficult.

OTOH, it is fair to expect service where it is paid for.

I dunno.

--
.............................................................................

"The Israeli objective since 1967 has been to transform the ethnic character
of the annexed area [of East Jerusalem] from Arab to Jewish. Israeli
demolition policy in East Jerusalem is based on similar premises as in the
rest of the West Bank: construction of settlements restricted to Jews,
confiscation of land for exclusively Jewish use, and restriction and
demolition of Palestinian development."

-Amnesty International Report:
"The Destruction of Palestinian Homes"
December 8, 1999.

.............................................................................
ds...@memeticcandiru.com http://www.memeticcandiru.com

Glenn Knickerbocker

unread,
May 28, 2003, 6:42:22 PM5/28/03
to
"hym3n_h0l0cau$7"@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:
> You raise an interesting issue, Tamara: Service expectations of low-paid
> staff.

Well, assuming he drives a company truck, at least ownership and
maintenance of that isn't pushed off onto him without a share of the
profit. (Eh, Schwa?)

Or have I just made an ass of you and Ming?

ŹR

Beable van Polasm

unread,
May 28, 2003, 9:03:47 PM5/28/03
to
bar...@bookpro.com writes:
>
> (who unfortunately was not able to get a rude, obnoxious, lying
> Airborne driver fired, in spite of numerous bad experiences,
> including one very like Tam's, and in spite of other people's
> complaints about the driver)

Yeah but did you ever think that maybe the driver is rude and
obnoxious because her husband has got cancer, and her dog just got run
over? I bet you didn't. I bet you just decided that the chyk should be
fired because of some brief interactions, and don't care ONE WHIT
about what problems she might have.

When I'M trying to get somebody fired, I always walk a mile in their
shoes first. That way, when I get them fired and they get all angry
with me, I'm a mile away, and I'VE GOT THEIR SHOES! HAW HAW!

--
Ewwww, I got Lisa's plankton kebabs! -- Bart Simpson
http://beable.com

hym3n_h...@salmahayeksknockers.edu

unread,
May 29, 2003, 2:16:34 AM5/29/03
to
bar...@bookpro.com wrote:

> If I weren't expecting to see him again, particularly not regularly,
> like your bed delivery guy, I wouldn't bother.

Barbara, that's an excellent way to decice...

Thanks..

hym3n_h...@salmahayeksknockers.edu

unread,
May 29, 2003, 2:18:33 AM5/29/03
to

Glenn, how did you cleverly discover that I am really Schwa?

revjack

unread,
May 29, 2003, 7:27:35 AM5/29/03
to
hym3n_h0l0cau$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:

: You raise an interesting issue, Tamara: Service
: expectations of low-paid staff.

What's pay got to do with it? This guy was WAY out of line.

: I considered calling in a complaint, but ultimately


: decided not to, for the reason that they're doomed to be
: low-pay, low-expectation grunts, and that I didn't want to
: make their difficult lives more difficult.

Thanks for perpetuating it!

: I dunno.

I do!


--
___________________
rev...@revjack.net

hym3n_h...@salmahayeksknockers.edu

unread,
May 29, 2003, 3:06:03 PM5/29/03
to
revjack <rev...@revjack.net> wrote:
> hym3n_h0l0cau$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:

> : You raise an interesting issue, Tamara: Service
> : expectations of low-paid staff.

> What's pay got to do with it? This guy was WAY out of line.

For myself, it comes to an issue of relative inconvenience,
combined with a bit of compassion. His impact upon my life in minimal, but
a complaint may seriously imapact his. I'm in a comfortable enough
position that I can sustain these minor inconveniences with little trouble.

Were the problem to be chronic, or malicious in nature, I would deal with it
appropriately.


> : I considered calling in a complaint, but ultimately
> : decided not to, for the reason that they're doomed to be
> : low-pay, low-expectation grunts, and that I didn't want to
> : make their difficult lives more difficult.

> Thanks for perpetuating it!

My own actions will have little impact on whether a bitter, low-paid worker
stay so or not. I don't think a complaint on my part will inspire them
to better themselves.

>> I Dunno.

> I do!

People who claim to "Know" are frightening.

revjack

unread,
May 29, 2003, 3:21:40 PM5/29/03
to
hym3n_h0l0cau$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:

: revjack <rev...@revjack.net> wrote:
:> hym3n_h0l0cau$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:
:>> I Dunno.

:> I do!
: People who claim to "Know" are frightening.

Let's play Atlas Shrugged!


--
___________________
rev...@revjack.net

Kevin S. Wilson

unread,
May 29, 2003, 3:37:06 PM5/29/03
to
On Thu, 29 May 2003 19:06:03 GMT,
hym3n_h0l0cau$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:

>>> I Dunno.
>
>> I do!
>
>People who claim to "Know" are frightening.

Oh, yeah. They're skeery, all right. How dare someone arrive at
conclusions based on fact, then hold a particular belief based on
those conclusions? Frightening!

But not nearly as frightening as trembling fence-sitters who not only
won't make up their own minds, but encourage others to join them on a
multitude of fences.

Jeebus, how do you manage to shop for groceries?

--
Kevin S. Wilson
Tech Writer at a University Somewhere in Idaho
"You can safely ignore Kevin in order to
maximise life's experience." --A. Loon, in alt.religion.kibology

Shiro Akaishi

unread,
May 29, 2003, 5:20:13 PM5/29/03
to
hym3n_h0l0cau$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote in
news:vSsBa.144$sq2....@news1.telusplanet.net:

> For myself, it comes to an issue of relative inconvenience,
> combined with a bit of compassion. His impact upon my life in
> minimal, but a complaint may seriously imapact his. I'm in a
> comfortable enough position that I can sustain these minor
> inconveniences with little trouble.

Sure, but this deliveryman's actions are reflecting on the business he's
working for - it's his responsibility as an employee to put his own
griping aside and show the world the better side to make a good
impression for the business. If he's got a problem he should be taking
it up directly with his employer, not discussing it with customers. He's
not obviously a victim here, and if he is, it's a whole other can of
kontext-away.

Further, it's the business' responsibility to either fix the problems in
the first place, or hire someone who can deal with it themself - to
realize that the face the customer sees is the face the customer
associates with the business, and treat those faces well enough to
ensure a good public image.

If the problems can't be overcome, then it's probably best in the long
run for all parties that a complaint was made. If they can, then the
problem is solved anyway.

--
/\ _____________ \ _()< -Quack, I am
(__\ |Shiro Akaishi| \_/ Png, the
) \. ------------- LL SigDuck!
/.

Jacob W. Haller

unread,
May 29, 2003, 5:26:02 PM5/29/03
to
<hym3n_h0l0cau$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu> wrote:

> >> I Dunno.
>
> > I do!
>
> People who claim to "Know" are frightening.

IK NWO!

-jwgh

--
"Medicine was so backwards in the early 1500s that the curative powers
of the leech had not yet been discovered."
- Joel Achenbach, _Why Things Are Volume II: The Big Picture_

Rich Holmes

unread,
May 29, 2003, 5:48:48 PM5/29/03
to
In simpler terms, the schmuck was rude, obnoxious, and out of line to
a paying customer who hadn't done anything to deserve it. What's not
to complain about?

After all, there's more than one beer delivery service in Tronna,
apparently. (Emigration papers being prepared as I write.) All other
things being equal, the customers would rather deal with the one that
hires polite staff, right?

So the schmuck is sending customers to the other company. Which is
no skin off those customers' noses, until of course the schmuck's
company tanks and the one remaining company jacks its prices through
the roof.

Or the customers can complain, get the schmuck's ass fired, keep his
company in business, and keep that healthy competition going. Which
would you choose?

So the schmuck gets a bad life. Until he cleans up his act, he
deserves one.

--
- Doctroid Doctroid Holmes <http://www.richholmes.net/doctroid/>

"We're waist deep in the Big Muddy
And the big fool says to push on." -- Pete Seeger

Ricky Morse

unread,
May 29, 2003, 6:36:57 PM5/29/03
to
In article <r4ocdv40l0iugmeuc...@4ax.com>,

Kevin S. Wilson <res...@spro.net> wrote:

> But not nearly as frightening as trembling fence-sitters

First, why are you frightened of people sitting on a fence? Second, if
they're trembling, doesn't that seem to indicate that they're the one's
who're afraid? So why should they frighten you? Third, I'll have you
know that I enjoy sitting on fences (well, not barbed wire, but the wide
wooden ones that you can balance on well) and I don't tremble as I do
it, unless the wind is _really_ strong.

Ricky

hym3n_h...@salmahayeksknockers.edu

unread,
May 29, 2003, 7:11:02 PM5/29/03
to
Kevin S. Wilson <res...@spro.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 29 May 2003 19:06:03 GMT,
> hym3n_h0l0cau$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:

>>>> I Dunno.
>>
>>> I do!
>>
>>People who claim to "Know" are frightening.

> Oh, yeah. They're skeery, all right. How dare someone arrive at
> conclusions based on fact,

I'm all for conclusions based on fact, however that is not what is in
question. What was presented was an opinion.

If you still believe this is as imperial as you suggest, I challenge you to
show us what the relevant "facts" are, and what verifiable and reproducable
conclusions can be drawn from them.

hym3n_h...@salmahayeksknockers.edu

unread,
May 29, 2003, 7:15:36 PM5/29/03
to
Shiro Akaishi <aka...@skizzzers.org> wrote:
> Sure, but this deliveryman's actions are reflecting on the business he's
> working for - it's his responsibility as an employee to put his own
> griping aside and show the world the better side to make a good
> impression for the business.

These are all reasonable expectations, but will likely only be fulfilled
according to pay. A $5/hr monkey will not likely take the pains to be
professional, wherease a $10/monkey might. Such a delivery service may
cost more, for the added expectation of professionality.

As far as beer delivery is concerned, I'm not looking for professionality...
I just need a guy to drop off beer. I don't plan on interacting with him a
whole deal. If he's a dick, I'll likely not tip.

The core of my position is this: Expectations are bound to pay, as they
should be.

Kevin S. Wilson

unread,
May 29, 2003, 7:30:27 PM5/29/03
to
On Thu, 29 May 2003 23:11:02 GMT,
hym3n_h0l0cau$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:

>Kevin S. Wilson <res...@spro.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 29 May 2003 19:06:03 GMT,
>> hym3n_h0l0cau$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:
>
>>>>> I Dunno.
>>>
>>>> I do!
>>>
>>>People who claim to "Know" are frightening.
>
>> Oh, yeah. They're skeery, all right. How dare someone arrive at
>> conclusions based on fact,
>
>I'm all for conclusions based on fact, however that is not what is in
>question. What was presented was an opinion.
>
>If you still believe this is as imperial as you suggest,

Don't be dragging the Royal Family into this. They have problems of
their own, you know.

> I challenge you to
>show us what the relevant "facts" are, and what verifiable and reproducable
>conclusions can be drawn from them.

Oh, don't be a twit. You said:

"I considered calling in a complaint, but ultimately decided not to,
for the reason that they're doomed to be low-pay, low-expectation
grunts, and that I didn't want to make their difficult lives more
difficult.

OTOH, it is fair to expect service where it is paid for.

I dunno."

And when someone said they did know what they would do in such a
situation, you said "People who claim to "Know" are frightening." If
you're such a limp-wristed, tenderer-than-thou, quivering lump of
uncertainty and doubt that you find frightening people who claim to
know what they think about such a situation and claim to know what
they would do, then I wonder how you manage to get through the myriad
of decisions each day brings with it, and how you manage to ever form
an opinion. As I said before, how do you manage to buy groceries?

BTW, you also deserve a hearty bitch-slapping for saying "[delivery
people are] doomed to be low-pay, low-expectation grunts." Sometime
when you have time, I'll list for you all the low-paying, manual-labor
jobs I held before the age of thirty, provided that you'll then hold
still while I plant a boot on your butt for presuming that a
low-paying job doing manual labor amounts to a life sentence of the
same.

h1dd3n_...@salmahayeksknockers.edu

unread,
May 29, 2003, 9:19:05 PM5/29/03
to
Rich Holmes <rsholme...@mailbox.syr.edu> wrote:
> In simpler terms, the schmuck was rude, obnoxious, and out of line to
> a paying customer who hadn't done anything to deserve it. What's not
> to complain about?

After a split second effort/benefit analysis, I'd decide it wasn't
worth my time.

h1dd3n_...@salmahayeksknockers.edu

unread,
May 29, 2003, 9:24:07 PM5/29/03
to
Kevin S. Wilson <res...@spro.net> wrote:

<SNIP>


> As I said before, how do you manage to buy groceries?

You've put a lot of effort into being insulting. You are mean.

> BTW, you also deserve a hearty bitch-slapping for saying "[delivery
> people are] doomed to be low-pay, low-expectation grunts." Sometime
> when you have time, I'll list for you all the low-paying, manual-labor
> jobs I held before the age of thirty,

Cry me a river. Been there, done that.

> still while I plant a boot on your butt for presuming that a
> a low-paying job doing manual labor amounts to a life sentence of the
> same.

I agree that it isn't, not in the least. However, I wouldn't have high hopes
for someone who can't deliver beer with a modicum or professionality,
nor would I think a complaint from me would inspire them to better things.

Shiro Akaishi

unread,
May 29, 2003, 9:25:15 PM5/29/03
to
hym3n_h0l0cau$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote in
news:swwBa.984$Wg4.1...@news0.telusplanet.net:

> The core of my position is this: Expectations are bound to pay, as
> they should be.

Yeah but there's got to be a certain amount of respect regardless of how
much you get paid. If my employee couldn't be bothered to muster that much
respect, I couldn't be bothered to employ him.

Which is why I can't work in retail - I don't work well with the public.
Drives me absolutely off my skull.

h1dd3n_...@salmahayeksknockers.edu

unread,
May 29, 2003, 9:28:00 PM5/29/03
to
bar...@bookpro.com wrote:

> Not to mention the fact that not all delivery people are low-pay,
> low-expectation grunts with difficult lives. Taking the attitude that
> they are seems more than a bit patronizing.

I agree, and retract.

> I wonder how many
> delivery people hym knows personally. I know some, who do a good job,
> make reasonably good money, and don't expect people to make allowances
> for their allegedly pitiful circumstances.

Agreed again. Although my analysis may be been somewhat speculative,
I still beleive that Job expectations are bound to wage, and where there is
low wage, we should lower our expectations appropriately.

Jeremy Impson

unread,
May 29, 2003, 9:50:25 PM5/29/03
to
On Fri, 30 May 2003 h1dd3n_ham$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:

> bar...@bookpro.com wrote:
>
> > Not to mention the fact that not all delivery people are low-pay,
> > low-expectation grunts with difficult lives. Taking the attitude that
> > they are seems more than a bit patronizing.
>
> I agree, and retract.
>
> > I wonder how many
> > delivery people hym knows personally. I know some, who do a good job,
> > make reasonably good money, and don't expect people to make allowances
> > for their allegedly pitiful circumstances.
>
> Agreed again.

Listen, if you're going to keep agreeing, the GET OUTA USENET! We don't
have time for agree-monkeys.

--Jeremy

--

Jeremy Impson
jdim...@acm.org
http://impson.tzo.com/~jdimpson

Theresa Willis

unread,
May 29, 2003, 10:19:52 PM5/29/03
to
On 29 May 2003 19:21:40 GMT, revjack <rev...@revjack.net> wrote:

>hym3n_h0l0cau$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:
>: revjack <rev...@revjack.net> wrote:
>:> hym3n_h0l0cau$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:
>:>> I Dunno.
>:> I do!
>: People who claim to "Know" are frightening.
>
>Let's play Atlas Shrugged!

Well, OK, but this time YOU have to be Hank Reardon.

--Terri
--


When I'M trying to get somebody fired, I always walk a mile in their
shoes first. That way, when I get them fired and they get all angry
with me, I'm a mile away, and I'VE GOT THEIR SHOES! HAW HAW!

--Beable van Polasm, alt.religion.kibology

Theresa Willis

unread,
May 29, 2003, 10:21:45 PM5/29/03
to
On Thu, 29 May 2003 19:06:03 GMT,
hym3n_h0l0cau$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:

>
>People who claim to "Know" are frightening.

Well, don't worry. That's far from being the scariest thing about
revjack.

James Kibo Parry

unread,
May 29, 2003, 10:27:10 PM5/29/03
to
Tamara (tamara...@sprint.ca) wrote:
>
> Here in Toronto, everyone delivers.

My most vivid memory of visiting Toronto is that, on the red trolley,
there were ads for KFC showing a phone where the three colored buttons
across the top were something like "fire", "hospital", and "the face
of Colonel Sanders". Apparently in Toronto, KFC deliverymen have
replaced the police.

"Help, I'm trapped in a stupid panic room with Jodie Foster!
Send over a SWAT team armed with curly fries!"

And there were ads for "976.11.11" pizza everywhere, which scared
me, because as a loyal American, I know that all 976- phone numbers
are answered by housewives pretending to be prostitutes.

> [...] I think most of you know that I don't go to beer, but instead,


> beer comes to me. There are two services that I use for beer delivery,
> one called Cheers and the other, simply, Delivery Man.

Here's how much more civilized Boston is than Toronto: Here we not
only have the genuine "Cheers" pub as seen on TV, but also "CHEERS too"
and "three CHEERS" and several other knockoffs and licensed Cheers
brand souvenir stores. There used to be one of them at the top of
the Prudential Tower before they had to close the observation deck
because they were worried terrorists would go up there and wave down
airplanes, after 9/76/11/11 -- AUGH! TAM, YOU INFECTED ME WITH
YOUR EVIL TORONTO PIZZA JINGLE!

You should call up nine seven six dot eleven dot eleven and ask them
to start delivering beer. That is, assuming your phone has an "eleven"
button and not just a picture of the Jack In The Box clown's face.

Here in the U.S., our phones go up to 99! Except they leave off the
"66" button because if you pressed it three times you'd summon Satan twice.

-- K.

I'm really tired of people in
my building's elevator explaining
to other people why tall buildings
have no 13th floor -- it has nothing
whatsoever to do with medieval
superstitions. (These buildings
never omit room 13 on any of
the floors!) It's just so they
can make more money, because
the price of an apartment is
proportional to how high it is,
so being able to pretend that
all the floors are one higher
is good for them.

I'm not sure what floor the Cheers
souvenir shop in the Prudential
was on, because that building
omits about six floor numbers
(there are no floors ending in "2",
so if you ever have to go down
the stairs, watch your step.)

David DeLaney

unread,
May 29, 2003, 10:21:06 PM5/29/03
to
revjack <rev...@revjack.net> wrote:
>hym3n_h0l0cau$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:

Huh. Used to be just plain old "salmahayesknockers".

But the k's supposed to go on the front, innit?

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

John Burrage

unread,
May 29, 2003, 10:44:55 PM5/29/03
to
hym3n_h0l0cau$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:

>revjack <rev...@revjack.net> wrote:
>> hym3n_h0l0cau$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:
>
>> : You raise an interesting issue, Tamara: Service
>> : expectations of low-paid staff.
>
>> What's pay got to do with it? This guy was WAY out of line.
>
>For myself, it comes to an issue of relative inconvenience,

Shut up, friends!

This whole thing has just reminded me of a very vexing issue which
must be resolved right away - should you thank bus drivers as you get
off the bus? Sure, it seems like a polite thing to do, but on the
other hand, they're just doing their job!


--
John Burrage http://members.iinet.net.au/~burrage/
"That makes one year to go before I'm headline news
in every newspaper in the world." - George Hammond,
1 July 2002.

h1dd3n_...@salmahayeksknockers.edu

unread,
May 29, 2003, 10:56:44 PM5/29/03
to
Jeremy Impson <jdim...@acm.org> wrote:

> Listen, if you're going to keep agreeing, the GET OUTA USENET! We don't
> have time for agree-monkeys.

You're very right.

John Burrage

unread,
May 29, 2003, 11:07:42 PM5/29/03
to
h1dd3n_ham$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:

>Jeremy Impson <jdim...@acm.org> wrote:
>
>> Listen, if you're going to keep agreeing, the GET OUTA USENET! We don't
>> have time for agree-monkeys.
>
>You're very right.

No he's NOT.

Whosetitanelbow

unread,
May 30, 2003, 12:14:32 AM5/30/03
to
jbur...@cyllene.uwa.edu.au (John Burrage) schreef in
berichtnieuws...news:3ed6c57a...@165.118.47.168:

> This whole thing has just reminded me of a very vexing issue which
> must be resolved right away - should you thank bus drivers as you get
> off the bus? Sure, it seems like a polite thing to do, but on the
> other hand, they're just doing their job!

I used to thank the recently-arrived bus driver from Germany because he was
like a Jim Jarmusch character all lost in usaia and scared of my rude
neighbors, who were all stuck on themselves and hung-up because they didn't
get an interweb to print.

I also thanked the black lady bus drivers but they didn't like being
addressed by the *cargo*, so I stopped that.

Now, I drive everywhere and I have turned into an enormous, pale grub, but
I have desert power and I can listen to my choice of three different oldies
stations!

Whosetitanelbow

unread,
May 30, 2003, 12:17:57 AM5/30/03
to
Jeremy Impson <jdim...@acm.org> schreef in
berichtnieuws...news:Pine.LNX.4.44.03052...@monster.apt.
net:

>> Agreed again.
>
> Listen, if you're going to keep agreeing, the GET OUTA USENET! We
> don't have time for agree-monkeys.
>

aDD M3 2 TEH L1ST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

Whosetitanelbow

unread,
May 30, 2003, 12:19:35 AM5/30/03
to
h1dd3n_ham$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu schreef in
berichtnieuws...news:XoyBa.1791$Wg4.1...@news0.telusplanet.net:

> However, I wouldn't have high hopes
> for someone who can't deliver beer with a modicum or professionality,

Yeah, these BEER VANS had better get start playing the ISO 9001 ballgame!

James Vandenberg

unread,
May 30, 2003, 3:59:14 AM5/30/03
to
John Burrage <jbur...@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> wrote:
> h1dd3n_ham$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:
>
>>Jeremy Impson <jdim...@acm.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Listen, if you're going to keep agreeing, the GET OUTA USENET! We don't
>>> have time for agree-monkeys.
>>
>>You're very right.
>
> No he's NOT.

He could be, we don't know until we have EVIDENCE!

In order to obtain this VITAL INFORMATION, I propose the following
COMPLETELY SCIENTIFIC procedure for a SCIENTIFIC EXPERIMENT!

Aparratus:
----------
10 agree-monkeys
10 ordinary monkeys
20 kibologists

Method:
-------

In order for this to be a double blind experiment, poke everybody in the
eye twice.

Label the monkeys 1-20, randomly selecting between agree-monkeys and
ordinary monkeys.

Label the kibologists A-T. Then, randomly assign monkeys to
kibologists. Get somebody else to actually give the monkeys to the
kibologists, in case you accidently blurt out something like, "Oh, Mr.
Impson, you get an agreemonkey! Lucky you!".

Then, leave each kibologist separately with their monkey for about an
hour. At the end of that time, record which monkeys were given time.

Results:
--------

Kibologist | Monkey | Monkey Type| Given time?
-----------+--------+------------+------------
A | 18 | Agree | N
B | 17 | Ordinary | N
C | 11 | Agree | Y
D | 7 | Ordinary | Y
E | 4 | Ordinary | Y
F | 12 | Ordinary | N
G | 1 | Ordinary | Y
H | 20 | Agree | N
I | 5 | Ordinary | Y
J | 10 | Agree | Y
K | 6 | Ordinary | N
L | 13 | Agree | Y
M | 16 | Ordinary | Y
N | 15 | Agree | N
O | 9 | Agree | N
P | 8 | Agree | N
Q | 2 | Agree | N
R | 14 | Ordinary | Y
S | 19 | Ordinary | N
T | 3 | Agree | N

Analysis:
---------

Type of monkey | Number given time | Number not given time
---------------+-------------------+----------------------
Ordinary | 6 | 4
Agree | 3 | 7

Conclusion:
------------

I think it's pretty clear from these results that kibologists prefer to
give time to ordinary monkeys, rather than agree-monkeys. There also
seems to be a slight tendency to prefer not to give time to monkeys,
although this may be statistically insignificant.

Ja-carefully-checking-facts-before-posting-nonsense-mes
--
James Vandenberg Email: james at vandenberg.dropbear.id.au
GPG FP= 65AB 179A D884 EDC6 216D FE6A 6833 02BC 4425 4F70
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur. ICQ: 151135390
Beware! Sometimes forks and candles fall from the sky.

Tamara

unread,
May 30, 2003, 8:27:05 AM5/30/03
to
<h1dd3n_ham$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu> wrote in message
news:XoyBa.1791$Wg4.1...@news0.telusplanet.net...

> nor would I think a complaint from me would inspire them to better >
things.

How's that newspaper route?

~T


Tamara

unread,
May 30, 2003, 8:35:36 AM5/30/03
to
"Theresa Willis" <tdwi...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ctfddvcf6u2ib7r25...@4ax.com...

> When I'M trying to get somebody fired, I always walk a mile in their
> shoes first. That way, when I get them fired and they get all angry
> with me, I'm a mile away, and I'VE GOT THEIR SHOES! HAW HAW!
> --Beable van Polasm, alt.religion.kibology

Hey! You .sigged something that *I* wanted to .sig! If only I had a .sig
to start off with. But! You stole the .sig that I wanted and now Beable
will read all of this and his ego-inflated head will explodiate and make a
mess all over we screens.

~T (.sigless and destined to stay that way for-EVAR!)


revjack

unread,
May 30, 2003, 10:12:53 AM5/30/03
to
Theresa Willis <tdwi...@earthlink.net> wrote:

: On 29 May 2003 19:21:40 GMT, revjack <rev...@revjack.net> wrote:

:>hym3n_h0l0cau$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:
:>: revjack <rev...@revjack.net> wrote:
:>:> hym3n_h0l0cau$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:
:>:>> I Dunno.
:>:> I do!
:>: People who claim to "Know" are frightening.
:>
:>Let's play Atlas Shrugged!

: Well, OK, but this time YOU have to be Hank Reardon.

Only if you'll be Dagny Coleman!


--
___________________
rev...@revjack.net

revjack

unread,
May 30, 2003, 10:17:09 AM5/30/03
to
Theresa Willis <tdwi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
: On Thu, 29 May 2003 19:06:03 GMT,
: hym3n_h0l0cau$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:

:>
:>People who claim to "Know" are frightening.

: Well, don't worry. That's far from being the scariest thing about
: revjack.

That reminds me -- send me an email with "Mayonnaise" in the
subject, there's something I want to show you.

--
___________________
rev...@revjack.net

revjack

unread,
May 30, 2003, 10:24:45 AM5/30/03
to
John Burrage <jbur...@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> wrote:
: hym3n_h0l0cau$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:

:>revjack <rev...@revjack.net> wrote:
:>> hym3n_h0l0cau$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:
:>
:>> : You raise an interesting issue, Tamara: Service
:>> : expectations of low-paid staff.
:>
:>> What's pay got to do with it? This guy was WAY out of line.
:>
:>For myself, it comes to an issue of relative inconvenience,

: Shut up, friends!

"Villains!" I shrieked, "dissemble no more!"

: This whole thing has just reminded me of a very vexing issue which


: must be resolved right away - should you thank bus drivers as you get
: off the bus? Sure, it seems like a polite thing to do, but on the
: other hand, they're just doing their job!

You MAY thank them, it's NICE to do so unless you didn't
like the way they drive. You don't HAVE to and you're NOT A
BAD PERSON if you DON'T. You are NOT allowed to poke them in
the EYE.

--
___________________
rev...@revjack.net

revjack

unread,
May 30, 2003, 10:41:21 AM5/30/03
to
h1dd3n_ham$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:

: Agreed again. Although my analysis may be been somewhat


: speculative, I still beleive that Job expectations are bound
: to wage, and where there is low wage, we should lower our
: expectations appropriately.

Well, that's insulting to just about everybody.

Also, could you spice that .sig up a little? It's
kinda....y'know...


--
___________________
rev...@revjack.net

h1dd3n_...@salmahayeksknockers.edu

unread,
May 30, 2003, 10:48:13 AM5/30/03
to
revjack <rev...@revjack.net> wrote:
> h1dd3n_ham$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:

> : Agreed again. Although my analysis may be been somewhat
> : speculative, I still beleive that Job expectations are bound
> : to wage, and where there is low wage, we should lower our
> : expectations appropriately.

> Well, that's insulting to just about everybody.

How so?

revjack

unread,
May 30, 2003, 11:05:20 AM5/30/03
to
h1dd3n_ham$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:

: revjack <rev...@revjack.net> wrote:
:> h1dd3n_ham$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:

:> : Agreed again. Although my analysis may be been somewhat
:> : speculative, I still beleive that Job expectations are bound
:> : to wage, and where there is low wage, we should lower our
:> : expectations appropriately.

:> Well, that's insulting to just about everybody.

: How so?

Ah, obtuse, then. Fine.

Speaking for myself only: please don't base your
expectations of me on my wage(s) or lack thereof.

Also:

DRIVE RIGHT, PASS LEFT

Dammit.

--
___________________
rev...@revjack.net
REAL MEN LOVE JESUS

Glenn Knickerbocker

unread,
May 30, 2003, 2:17:06 PM5/30/03
to
Whosetitanelbow wrote:
> Jeremy Impson <jdim...@acm.org> schreef in
> berichtnieuws...news:Pine.LNX.4.44.03052...@monster.apt.
> net:
> > don't have time for agree-monkeys.
> aDD M3 2 TEH L1ST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

SUBSCIRBE

revjack

unread,
May 30, 2003, 2:32:34 PM5/30/03
to
Glenn Knickerbocker <No...@bestweb.net> wrote:

: SUBSCIRBE

hAY guYs wahts goign on in this thred LOL

h1dd3n_...@salmahayeksknockers.edu

unread,
May 30, 2003, 4:38:06 PM5/30/03
to
revjack <rev...@revjack.net> wrote:

> Ah, obtuse, then. Fine.

> Speaking for myself only: please don't base your
> expectations of me on my wage(s) or lack thereof.

The howso was not intended towards the "everybody" part,
but to the part about it being unfair to map expectations
to wages.

Nicko

unread,
May 30, 2003, 7:48:05 PM5/30/03
to

"Tamara" <tamara...@sprint.ca> wrote in message
news:bb2lv7$4q1t9$1...@ID-84452.news.dfncis.de...

> ~T (No, Nicko. This was NOT the same beer man you hugged)

Whew! Thank you SO MUCH for clarifying. The furtherer and furtherer I read
your post, the deeperer and deeperer I sank into a dark, dank, decidedly
desperate depression, until only the merest, vaguest, translucentest
impression of my tight-lipped frown remained. Because I LIKE that guy. I
mean, how many beer guys have any of you actually *hugged*, huh? That is
saying a lot. Well, perhaps not, coming from me, teh Whore of Chicagolon.

A-and I think *he* liked *me*, despite his frustrating and typically Asian
reluctance to accept a slipped tongue (etc., AITYD).

B-but. BUT (WAKE UP GLENN!):

You did not fire the deputy, Tam.

I hope.

Okaynevermindthanksbye.

--
YOP...

buh


Beable van Polasm

unread,
May 30, 2003, 7:53:25 PM5/30/03
to
h1dd3n_ham$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu writes:

> .............................................................................
>
> "The Israeli objective since 1967 has been to transform the ethnic character
> of the annexed area [of East Jerusalem] from Arab to Jewish. Israeli
> demolition policy in East Jerusalem is based on similar premises as in the
> rest of the West Bank: construction of settlements restricted to Jews,
> confiscation of land for exclusively Jewish use, and restriction and
> demolition of Palestinian development."
>
> -Amnesty International Report:
> "The Destruction of Palestinian Homes"
> December 8, 1999.
>
> .............................................................................
> ds...@memeticcandiru.com http://www.memeticcandiru.com

SIG TOO BIG! PLONK!

--
Ewwww, I got Lisa's plankton kebabs! -- Bart Simpson
http://beable.com

Beable van Polasm

unread,
May 30, 2003, 7:58:53 PM5/30/03
to
revjack <rev...@revjack.net> writes:
>
>
> Ah, obtuse, then. Fine.
>
> Speaking for myself only: please don't base your
> expectations of me on my wage(s) or lack thereof.

If you're going to assume that everybody who gets paid a lot is a good
person and deserves respect, and everbody who gets paid little is
undeserving of respect, then doesn't that mean that you should be
sucking up to Bill Gates and various sportspeople and actors all the
time?

And what happens if one day somebody has a job as a high-paid
executive or something, so you like them, and then the next day they
don't have that job any more for some reason. Do you then have to
scorn them? "Oh yeah, YESTERDAY I thought you were a good person
because you were getting paid $5 million per year, but today you have
no job so I HATE YOU!"

Deciding on which people are "better" than others by looking at how
many pieces of green paper they have in their pocketssess seems like a
pretty pointless exercise.

Theresa Willis

unread,
May 30, 2003, 10:46:06 PM5/30/03
to
On 30 May 2003 14:17:09 GMT, revjack <rev...@revjack.net> wrote:

>Theresa Willis <tdwi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>: On Thu, 29 May 2003 19:06:03 GMT,
>: hym3n_h0l0cau$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:
>
>:>
>:>People who claim to "Know" are frightening.
>
>: Well, don't worry. That's far from being the scariest thing about
>: revjack.
>
>That reminds me -- send me an email with "Mayonnaise" in the
>subject, there's something I want to show you.

Odd. For some reason I am reluctant to do this.

Should I? Or shouldn't I? I'd ask my spirtual advisor, but apparently
he's busy posting on the internet.

Theresa Willis

unread,
May 30, 2003, 10:46:10 PM5/30/03
to
On Fri, 30 May 2003 18:48:05 -0500, "Nicko" <ni...@nervousnick.dot_net>
wrote:

>B-but. BUT (WAKE UP GLENN!):
>
>You did not fire the deputy, Tam.
>

Oh, thank you SO VERY DAMN MUCH FOR THAT.


You. Compleat. Bastid.

revjack

unread,
May 30, 2003, 11:33:18 PM5/30/03
to
In alt.religion.kibology Beable van Polasm <beable+...@beable.com.invalid> wrote:

: revjack <rev...@revjack.net> writes:
:>
:>
:> Ah, obtuse, then. Fine.
:>
:> Speaking for myself only: please don't base your
:> expectations of me on my wage(s) or lack thereof.

: If you're going to assume that everybody who gets paid a lot is a good

HEY!

: person and deserves respect, and everbody who gets paid little is


: undeserving of respect, then doesn't that mean that you should be

HEY! I didn't say that!

: sucking up to Bill Gates and various sportspeople and actors all the
: time?

HEY WAIT A MINUTE

: And what happens if one day somebody has a job as a high-paid


: executive or something, so you like them, and then the next day they
: don't have that job any more for some reason. Do you then have to

YOU JUST HOLD ON THERE SKIPPY

: scorn them? "Oh yeah, YESTERDAY I thought you were a good person


: because you were getting paid $5 million per year, but today you have
: no job so I HATE YOU!"

HEY HEY HEY BEABLE HEY <gesticulating wildly>

: Deciding on which people are "better" than others by looking at how


: many pieces of green paper they have in their pocketssess seems like a
: pretty pointless exercise.

HAY BEABLE YOUR FROUPREADER IS B0RKEN


--
___________________
rev...@revjack.net

Tamara

unread,
May 31, 2003, 1:19:46 AM5/31/03
to

"Nicko" <ni...@nervousnick.dot_net> wrote in message
news:bb8qs6$q2l$1...@newsx.cc.uic.edu...

> A-and I think *he* liked *me*, despite his frustrating and typically Asian
> reluctance to accept a slipped tongue (etc., AITYD).

Odd. Since the last time I looked at Sammy, from Delivery Man, he was kinda
hispanic. I guess if you pull his eyes back with lots of scotch tape...

And give him liver problems...

~T

Ben Allard

unread,
May 31, 2003, 1:54:31 AM5/31/03
to
STFU U FAGOT STOF POSITING OT SHIT!!!! 2 ALT.STARCRAFT.WAERZ.BINARYS!
THIS SHIT

revjack <rev...@revjack.net> wrote:

> Glenn Knickerbocker <No...@bestweb.net> wrote:
>: Whosetitanelbow wrote:
>:> Jeremy Impson <jdim...@acm.org> schreef in

>:> berichtnieuws...news:Pine.LNX.4.44.0305292148150.7123-100000@monster.
>:> apt. net:


>:> > don't have time for agree-monkeys.
>:> aDD M3 2 TEH L1ST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
>
>: SUBSCIRBE
>
> hAY guYs wahts goign on in this thred LOL
>

--ben

Jacob W. Haller

unread,
May 31, 2003, 10:46:32 AM5/31/03
to
Beable van Polasm <beable+...@beable.com.invalid> wrote:

> If you're going to assume that everybody who gets paid a lot is a good
> person and deserves respect, and everbody who gets paid little is
> undeserving of respect, then doesn't that mean that you should be
> sucking up to Bill Gates and various sportspeople and actors all the
> time?

Nononononononono. See, here's how it goes.

h1dd3n_ham$72r: Hey, Bill Gates! Gimme a beer!

Bill Gates: Here you go!

h1dd3n_ham$72r: Hey, this beer is warm! And American! And you didn't
genuflect properly when you gave it to me! And you get paid SEVENTY
MILLION JILLION GAZILLION DOLLARS A SECOND! Wow, my expectations for
the service you provide were VASTLY greater to what you actually DID
provide! I am going to complain to your employer, who hopefully will
take appropriate corrective action!

[Bill Gates whispers into his cell phone. Shortly thereafter, hired
goons rush into the room and kill h1dd3n_ham$72r.]

h1dd3n_ham$72r: BRAAAAAAANEZZZZZ.............

> And what happens if one day somebody has a job as a high-paid
> executive or something, so you like them, and then the next day they
> don't have that job any more for some reason. Do you then have to
> scorn them? "Oh yeah, YESTERDAY I thought you were a good person
> because you were getting paid $5 million per year, but today you have
> no job so I HATE YOU!"

See, AGAIN you misunderstand, Mr. van Polasm if that is your REAL NAME!
Here's how THIS one plays out:

g14nt_s1g: Hey, incredibly wealthy plutocrat! Sell me a nice piece of
working software!

plu+0cr4+: Fuck off, loser.

g14nt_s1g: Waaah, my expectations have been CRUSHED! I will try to get
you FIRED!

[The next day:]

g14nt_s1g: Wow, it's an unemployed, completely broke plutocrat! Got any
beer?

plu+0cr4+: Eh, no hard feelings, I was kind of out of line. Here, have
a beer.

g14nt_s1g: Wow, you're not getting paid ANYTHING, but you're providing
service of a sort! My expectations have been greatly exceeded! Thanks!

plu+0cr4+: Yeah, whatever.

[g14nt_s1g takes a swig of beer, discovers it is actually wee-wee, does
a spit take.]

I HOPE YOU HAVE FOUND THIS ENLIGHTENING, MR. VAN POLASM. AND IF YOU
DIDN'T, WHO CARES? I'M NOT EXACTLY GETTING PAID FOR THIS HAW HAW!

-jwgh

--
........................................................................

"At the time of the story there was a pirate. I guess sometimes the
pirate would keelhaul a guy. I am not talking about keelhauling. The
pirate had a sterring wheel sticking out of his fly. I guess the
sterring wheel was probably small.

"The pirate who had the sterring wheel sticking out of his fly went to
a bar. I guess the bar did not have many boys and girls in it at the
time. The pirate probably asked for beer. The bartender saw the
sterring wheel. Probably the bartender did not know what the sterring
wheel was for.

"The bartender asked the pirate why he had a sterring wheel sticking
out of his fly. The pirate said that it was driving he nuts. I am not
talking about nuts."

-Kurt Stocklmeir:
"Dear These United States"
September 3559, 1993.

........................................................................
sp...@jwgh.org http://joebay.org/

Eb Oesch

unread,
May 31, 2003, 3:57:26 PM5/31/03
to
James Vandenberg <ja...@vandenberg.dropbear.id.au> wrote in message news:<5g27bb...@192.168.1.254>...

> Analysis:
> ---------
>
> Type of monkey | Number given time | Number not given time
> ---------------+-------------------+----------------------
> Ordinary | 6 | 4
> Agree | 3 | 7
>
> Conclusion:
> ------------
>
> I think it's pretty clear from these results that kibologists prefer to
> give time to ordinary monkeys, rather than agree-monkeys. There also
> seems to be a slight tendency to prefer not to give time to monkeys,
> although this may be statistically insignificant.
>
> Ja-carefully-checking-facts-before-posting-nonsense-mes

Such abuse of statistics pains me. Your experiment was not large
enough to justify such confidence in your conclusion. To see this,
let's fix the sample size at 20, the number of monkeys given time at
9, and the number of ordinary monkeys at 10. "What," we might ask
ourselves, "is the probability that the number of ordinary monkeys
given time will be 6 or greater, assuming the null hypothesis?" A
miserable slacker might settle for the Chi-Squared test here, but a
diligent investigator would not settle for an approximation when
exactitude is possible.

/c/csh: chisquare.pl
6 4
3 7
0, 10, 9, 1 -> 1847560
1, 9, 8, 2 -> 83140200
2, 8, 7, 3 -> 997682400
3, 7, 6, 4 -> 4655851200
4, 6, 5, 5 -> 9777287520
5, 5, 4, 6 -> 9777287520
6, 4, 3, 7 -> 4655851200
7, 3, 2, 8 -> 997682400
8, 2, 1, 9 -> 83140200
9, 1, 0, 10 -> 1847560
Splits: 81.51% less / 15.00% equal / 3.49% greater
L + E/2: 89.01% <-- Not significant yet!

#!/usr/local/bin/perl -w

# Given a population table
#
# Trait 1
# Y N
# Trait 2 Y A B
# N C D
#
# compute the probability, assuming the null hypothesis (no
# correlation between traits 1 and 2), that the number that posess
# traits 1 and 2 simultaneously will be equal to, greater than, or
# less than the original value A, assuming fixed values for the total
# population size (A+B+C+D), the number who posess trait 1, (A+C), and
# the number who posess trait 2 (A+B).

use strict;

my ($a, $b) = ((scalar <>) =~ m/^\s*(\d+)[[:space:],;]+(\d+)\s*$/);

if (!defined($b)) {
die "Expected two rows and columns of numbers";
}

my ($c, $d) = ((scalar <>) =~ m/^\s*(\d+)[[:space:],;]+(\d+)\s*$/);

if (!defined($d)) {
die "Expected two rows and columns of numbers";
}

my ($less, $more, $equal) = (0,0,0);
my $t1 = $a + $c;
my $t2 = $a + $b;
# my $t = $a + $b + $c + $d;


my $max_a = ($t1 < $t2) ? $t1 : $t2;
my $min_a = ($a > $d) ? $a - $d : 0;

for (my $a2 = $min_a; $a2 <= $max_a; $a2++) {
my $delta = $a2 - $a;
# To keep $t1, $t2, and $t fixed while replacing $a by $a2, we must
# decrease the values of $b and $c by $delta and increase the value
# of $d by $delta.
my $b2 = $b - $delta;
my $c2 = $c - $delta;
my $d2 = $d + $delta;

my $ways = factorial($a2 + $b2 + $c2 + $d2) / factorial($a2)
/ factorial ($b2) / factorial ($c2) / factorial ($d2);

print "$a2, $b2, $c2, $d2 -> $ways\n";
if ($a2 < $a) {
$less += $ways;
}
elsif ($a2 == $a) {
$equal += $ways;
}
else {
$more += $ways;
}
}

my $total = $less + $equal + $more;

printf "Splits: %6.2f%% less /%6.2f%% equal /%6.2f%% greater\n",
100 * $less / $total, 100 * $equal / $total, 100 * $more / $total;
printf "L + E/2: %6.2f%%\n", 100 * ($less + $equal / 2) / $total;

sub factorial {
my $rv = 1;
foreach (1 .. $_[0]) {
$rv *= $_;
}
return $rv;
}

Beable van Polasm

unread,
May 31, 2003, 3:55:09 AM5/31/03
to
revjack <rev...@revjack.net> writes:
>
> HEY! I didn't say that!

I KNOW THAT! I WAS AGREEING WITH YOU YOU BOZO! This isn't email you
know.

Kevin S. Wilson

unread,
Jun 1, 2003, 8:30:23 AM6/1/03
to
On 31 May 2003 05:54:31 GMT, Ben Allard <benjami...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>STFU U FAGOT STOF POSITING OT SHIT!!!! 2 ALT.STARCRAFT.WAERZ.BINARYS!
>THIS SHIT

Best answer to the question "What is Usenet" ever!

That bit of spaz-typing is so artfully composed I'm going to print it
out and frame if for my Mom. Note the subtle misspellings, the
leet-speak, the run-on sentence and sentence fragments. A work of art.

--
Kevin S. Wilson
Tech Writer at a University Somewhere in Idaho
"Who put these fingerprints on my imagination?"

Kevin S. Wilson

unread,
Jun 1, 2003, 8:42:32 AM6/1/03
to
On Fri, 30 May 2003 01:24:07 GMT,
h1dd3n_ham$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:

>Kevin S. Wilson <res...@spro.net> wrote:
>
><SNIP>
>> As I said before, how do you manage to buy groceries?
>
>You've put a lot of effort into being insulting.

I find it disturbing that it took you this long to notice. Maybe I
need to put more effort into my posts.

>You are mean.

Wrong. I'm cruel but fair.

>> BTW, you also deserve a hearty bitch-slapping for saying "[delivery
>> people are] doomed to be low-pay, low-expectation grunts." Sometime
>> when you have time, I'll list for you all the low-paying, manual-labor
>> jobs I held before the age of thirty,
>
>Cry me a river.

Please point to the part of my post in which I solicited pity. Then go
back and count all the Ps in the previous sentence.

>Been there, done that.

And you have clawed your way from that frightening abyss to attain the
high-paying position of . . . what, exactly? I need to know so I can
raise or lower my expectations accordingly. Also, I need to know for a
report at school.

>> still while I plant a boot on your butt for presuming that a
>> a low-paying job doing manual labor amounts to a life sentence of the
>> same.
>
>I agree that it isn't, not in the least. However, I wouldn't have high hopes


>for someone who can't deliver beer with a modicum or professionality,

>nor would I think a complaint from me would inspire them to better things.

You're right. A complaint from you probably wouldn't have much effect,
once the snickering died down.

Of course, you could make your complaint more effective by reminding
them of how much money you make.

Schwa Love

unread,
Jun 1, 2003, 6:19:56 PM6/1/03
to
Glenn Knickerbocker <No...@bestweb.net> wrote in
news:3ED53B4E...@bestweb.net:

> "hym3n_h0l0cau$7"@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:
>> You raise an interesting issue, Tamara: Service expectations of
>> low-paid staff.
>

> Well, assuming he drives a company truck, at least ownership and
> maintenance of that isn't pushed off onto him without a share of the
> profit. (Eh, Schwa?)

I don't know what kind of feudalistic talk you're speaking of.

I've gone through enough cars with this job now, but I don't take working
late out on my customers. If I didn't want to work certain hours, I
wouldn't accept a job working those hours.

I will let a wee bit of verbal aggression out at customers that are drunk
and slobber all over me, or those that REEEEEALLY want me to try their pot,
or those that give me the wrong address, or those who don't show up at the
door after I knock and ring and knock and ring and knock and then call and
then knock and ring and knock and ring and then they finally wake up*. But
if I have to work late because people called during our official hours,
that I have no problems with. The customer is always right after all, as
long as they are sober, clothed, and awake.

-- Schwa ---

* - or worse. It seems to be a common problem that people order food for
delivery and then all of the sudden realize that they are very horny and
have the sexoring and get upset when you show up with food and they have to
put clothes on.

Paula

unread,
Jun 2, 2003, 12:46:07 AM6/2/03
to
Jacob W. Haller <sp...@jwgh.org> wrote:

> I HOPE YOU HAVE FOUND THIS ENLIGHTENING, MR. VAN POLASM. AND IF YOU
> DIDN'T, WHO CARES? I'M NOT EXACTLY GETTING PAID FOR THIS HAW HAW!

Enlightening? You are obviously in the wrong place, young man! Try
buddhism if you want enlightenment. This religion is more about
fumbling around in the dark trying to find something else, IYKWIM AITYD.
NO LIGHTS!

--
Paula
"I hope you suffer from a thousand papercuts,
evil hellspawn trilobite!" --Jacob Haller

Ben Allard

unread,
Jun 2, 2003, 12:56:21 AM6/2/03
to
mmmtob...@earthlink.ent (Paula) wrote:

> This religion is more about fumbling around in the dark trying to find
> something else, IYKWIM AITYD.

I'm just glad that, even with my low posting frequency, I've been able to
make a contribution.

--ben

David DeLaney

unread,
Jun 2, 2003, 12:53:20 AM6/2/03
to
Paula <mmmtob...@earthlink.ent> wrote:
>Jacob W. Haller <sp...@jwgh.org> wrote:
>> I HOPE YOU HAVE FOUND THIS ENLIGHTENING, MR. VAN POLASM. AND IF YOU
>> DIDN'T, WHO CARES? I'M NOT EXACTLY GETTING PAID FOR THIS HAW HAW!
>
>Enlightening? You are obviously in the wrong place, young man! Try
>buddhism if you want enlightenment. This religion is more about
>fumbling around in the dark trying to find something else, IYKWIM AITYD.

O,ID,BM,ID.

(This is not an ode to Kevin's Wilson's state.)

>NO PANTS!

ObIFYPFY: IFYPFY. YW.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

Paula

unread,
Jun 2, 2003, 1:08:16 AM6/2/03
to
David DeLaney <d...@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote:

> Paula <mmmtob...@earthlink.ent> wrote:
> >Jacob W. Haller <sp...@jwgh.org> wrote:
> >> I HOPE YOU HAVE FOUND THIS ENLIGHTENING, MR. VAN POLASM. AND IF YOU
> >> DIDN'T, WHO CARES? I'M NOT EXACTLY GETTING PAID FOR THIS HAW HAW!
> >
> >Enlightening? You are obviously in the wrong place, young man! Try
> >buddhism if you want enlightenment. This religion is more about
> >fumbling around in the dark trying to find something else, IYKWIM AITYD.
>
> O,ID,BM,ID.
>
> (This is not an ode to Kevin's Wilson's state.)

Okay, but what the hell is it? Are you trying to push me completely
over the edge, Mr. DeLaney, if that is your real name?


>
> >NO PANTS!
>
> ObIFYPFY: IFYPFY. YW.

Well that went without saying.

Rich Holmes

unread,
Jun 2, 2003, 10:27:19 AM6/2/03
to
Beable van Polasm <beable+...@beable.com.invalid> writes:

> revjack <rev...@revjack.net> writes:
> >
> > HEY! I didn't say that!
>
> I KNOW THAT! I WAS AGREEING WITH YOU YOU BOZO!

No you weren't, you poverty-stricken agree-monkey SCHMUCK.

> This isn't email you know.

It's the email you don't know you have to worry about.

--
- Doctroid Doctroid Holmes <http://www.richholmes.net/doctroid/>

"We're waist deep in the Big Muddy
And the big fool says to push on." -- Pete Seeger

Rich Holmes

unread,
Jun 2, 2003, 10:35:01 AM6/2/03
to
Beable van Polasm <beable+...@beable.com.invalid> writes:

TOO LATE TO BE THE FIRST TO MOCK SIG! PLÖNK!!!

<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=hacker+group:alt.fan.warlord&selm=u41xyhr7xq.fsf%40mep1.phy.syr.edu>

Rich Holmes

unread,
Jun 2, 2003, 10:38:35 AM6/2/03
to
"Tamara" <tamara...@sprint.ca> writes:

> to start off with. But! You stole the .sig that I wanted and now Beable
> will read all of this and his ego-inflated head will explodiate and make a
> mess all over we screens.

Small Idaho here, Tam: as it is a prepositional phrase, you need what
Ayn Rand used to call the objectivist pronoun; it should be "all over
us screens". HTH!

Joel K. 'Jay' Furr

unread,
Jun 2, 2003, 10:47:13 AM6/2/03
to
Rich Holmes<rsholme...@mailbox.syr.edu> wrote in
news:u4fzmsp...@mep1.phy.syr.edu:

> No you weren't, you poverty-stricken agree-monkey SCHMUCK.

Speaking of which, the Flying Monkeys of Oz are here in Burlington:

http://www.mainstreetlanding.com/announce/monkeys.htm

revjack

unread,
Jun 2, 2003, 10:52:21 AM6/2/03
to
In alt.religion.kibology Beable van Polasm <beable+...@beable.com.invalid> wrote:
: revjack <rev...@revjack.net> writes:
:>
:> HEY! I didn't say that!

: I KNOW THAT! I WAS AGREEING WITH YOU YOU BOZO! This isn't email you
: know.

No kidding, Einstein -- it's the World Wide Web. This is why
browsers are threaded. DUH.

--
___________________
rev...@revjack.net

h1dd3n_...@salmahayeksknockers.edu

unread,
Jun 2, 2003, 7:17:23 PM6/2/03
to
In alt.religion.kibology Rich Holmes <rsholme...@mailbox.syr.edu> wrote:

> TOO LATE TO BE THE FIRST TO MOCK SIG! PLONK!!!

Why would you want to mock ethic cleansing? I see little there
of humor. Palestinians are having their homes demolished on a daily
basis by American bulldozers purchased with American money.

Have you no shame, Rich? No conscience?


--
.............................................................................

Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt.

.............................................................................
ds...@m3m3t1ccand1ru.com http://www.memeticcandiru.com

William Burke

unread,
Jun 2, 2003, 7:34:07 PM6/2/03
to
In article <7WQCa.8442$6f3.1...@news1.telusplanet.net>,
h1dd3n_ham$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:

> Why would you want to mock ethic cleansing? I see little there
> of humor. Palestinians are having their homes demolished on a daily
> basis by American bulldozers purchased with American money.

this is also true of Americans. hurray! equal opportunity ethnic
cleansing!

--p

Beable van Polasm

unread,
Jun 2, 2003, 7:50:32 PM6/2/03
to
h1dd3n_ham$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu writes:
>
> In alt.religion.kibology Rich Holmes <rsholme...@mailbox.syr.edu> wrote:
>
> > TOO LATE TO BE THE FIRST TO MOCK SIG! PLONK!!!
>
> Why would you want to mock ethic cleansing? I see little there
> of humor. Palestinians are having their homes demolished on a daily
> basis by American bulldozers purchased with American money.

SIG IS NOT ETHNIC CLEANSING! SIG IS SIG! MOCKING SIG IS NOT MOCKING
ETHNIC CLEANSING!



> Have you no shame, Rich? No conscience?

RICH IS NOT CONSCIENCE! RICH IS FRAUDSCIENCE!

> --
> .............................................................................
>
> Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt.
>
> .............................................................................
> ds...@m3m3t1ccand1ru.com http://www.memeticcandiru.com

SIG *STILL* TOO BIG! *PLONK*!

John Burrage

unread,
Jun 2, 2003, 11:24:30 PM6/2/03
to
James Vandenberg <ja...@vandenberg.dropbear.id.au> wrote:

>John Burrage <jbur...@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> wrote:
>> h1dd3n_ham$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:
>>
>>>Jeremy Impson <jdim...@acm.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Listen, if you're going to keep agreeing, the GET OUTA USENET! We don't
>>>> have time for agree-monkeys.
>>>
>>>You're very right.
>>
>> No he's NOT.
>
>He could be, we don't know until we have EVIDENCE!
>
>In order to obtain this VITAL INFORMATION, I propose the following
>COMPLETELY SCIENTIFIC procedure for a SCIENTIFIC EXPERIMENT!
>

[snip experiment]

But wait! You have announced the results BEFORE the experiment has
been done! Clearly this demonstrates the mastery of some form of time
travel, so therefore I hail this as the scientific breakthrough of
next century.

Also, it is interesting to note that the monkeys of the future do not
hurl faeces. Unless this bit was omitted for brevity.


--
John Burrage http://members.iinet.net.au/~burrage/
"That makes one year to go before I'm headline news
in every newspaper in the world." - George Hammond,
1 July 2002.

David DeLaney

unread,
Jun 3, 2003, 12:39:07 AM6/3/03
to
Paula <mmmtob...@earthlink.ent> wrote:
>David DeLaney <d...@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote:
>> Paula <mmmtob...@earthlink.ent> wrote:
>> >Enlightening? You are obviously in the wrong place, young man! Try
>> >buddhism if you want enlightenment. This religion is more about
>> >fumbling around in the dark trying to find something else, IYKWIM AITYD.
>>
>> O,ID,BM,ID.
>>
>> (This is not an ode to Kevin's Wilson's state.)
>
>Okay, but what the hell is it? Are you trying to push me completely
>over the edge, Mr. DeLaney, if that is your real name?

It's an anacronym. Like C D B.

And no; I might be able to PULL you over the edge, but no way in heck could
I ever -push- anyone over it...

Dave "I had recently to reaffirm to my bank, through the magic of Special
Faxed-in Ordering, that that is indeed my ral name and should be shown as
such on my letters of marque and reprisal, etc" DeLaney

Ben Allard

unread,
Jun 3, 2003, 12:58:12 AM6/3/03
to
jbur...@cyllene.uwa.edu.au (John Burrage) wrote:

> But wait! You have announced the results BEFORE the experiment has
> been done! Clearly this demonstrates the mastery of some form of time
> travel, so therefore I hail this as the scientific breakthrough of
> next century.

You FOOL! If you were ANY kind of scientist of note, or even above
subpar intelligence, you would already know that we're LIVING IN the next
century! I'm not sure what cognitive defect all that lashing, rum, and
sodomy introduced into your transponded ancestors, but you're OBVIOUSLY
stupid. Unless... Australia were moving in a different relativistic
frame of reference... due to THE CORIOLIS EFFECT! The only way to test
this hypothesis is for the esteemed Dr. Burrage to emit a steady stream
of Australian Pesos to a predesignated recieving station here in
Ammurica, where I will test this theory by carefully measuring how long
each peso is and how far I can stretch it.

> Also, it is interesting to note that the monkeys of the future do not
> hurl faeces. Unless this bit was omitted for brevity.

IPWTA "Levity". DAG TAKE NOTE: NEEDS FAECES THROWING MONKEYS! Maybe as
some kind of turret. Otherwise, rocket powered.

--ben

Rich Holmes

unread,
Jun 3, 2003, 10:51:32 AM6/3/03
to
h1dd3n_ham$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu writes:

> In alt.religion.kibology Rich Holmes <rsholme...@mailbox.syr.edu> wrote:
>
> > TOO LATE TO BE THE FIRST TO MOCK SIG! PLONK!!!
>
> Why would you want to mock ethic cleansing?

Hey! My ethics are ALREADY clean! Except for [REDACTED]

> I see little there of humor.

Sorry, I'll tell it again, only louder: YOUR SIG HAS NO NOSE! HOW
DOES IT SMELL? TWENTY BUCKS, SAME AS IN TOWN!!!!! GEDDIT????

> Palestinians are having their homes demolished on a daily
> basis by American bulldozers purchased with American money.

That's just WRONG! If I wanted MY home demolished with an American
bulldozer I'd have to use MY OWN money! How come the Palestinians get
special treatment, huh???

> Have you no shame, Rich? No conscience?

I left them in my other pants.

> --
> .............................................................................
>
> Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt.
>
> .............................................................................
> ds...@m3m3t1ccand1ru.com http://www.memeticcandiru.com

Just think of the tragedy of teaching wankers not to think.

--
*/\/\/\/\/\* fnord. *"I..." - N. Peart* * o=|=====> / * VR O X-warlord:no*
?| |? O ! O ? "SometimesWithA ? * * ?K#:1 // ? _ \ _ _/-_|\ ?
*| |*O !O *QuoteFromMe"- him* * * \\ // * (_)/ (_) | | ?
?| O O |? O! O?|<||3() |S G()|)!? WPI 77 ? \X/-'-,-@ INGSI! *_-__/ ?

h1dd3n_...@salmahayeksknockers.edu

unread,
Jun 3, 2003, 2:46:33 PM6/3/03
to
In alt.religion.kibology Rich Holmes <rsholme...@mailbox.syr.edu> wrote:

> Just think of the tragedy of teaching wankers not to think.

Are you suggsting I do not think, Rich?

What it is you would have me think about that I am not?


--
.............................................................................

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things; The decayed and
degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing
is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing
to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety,
is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and
kept so by the exertions of better men than himself"
- John Stuart Mill

.............................................................................
ds...@m3m3t1ccand1ru.com http://www.memeticcandiru.com

John D Salt

unread,
Jun 3, 2003, 2:49:37 PM6/3/03
to
h1dd3n_ham$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote in
news:d26Da.6201$QF2.1...@news2.telusplanet.net:

> In alt.religion.kibology Rich Holmes
> <rsholme...@mailbox.syr.edu> wrote:
>
>> Just think of the tragedy of teaching wankers not to think.
>
> Are you suggsting I do not think, Rich?
>
> What it is you would have me think about that I am not?

Yeah. And whenceforth is he to have bethought himself as to the
werewithal by which he is to have given thought thereupon, eh?

Answer me that.

All the best,

John.

Rich Holmes

unread,
Jun 3, 2003, 2:58:34 PM6/3/03
to
John D Salt <john...@NOSPAM.btclick.com> writes:

> h1dd3n_ham$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote in
> news:d26Da.6201$QF2.1...@news2.telusplanet.net:
>
> > In alt.religion.kibology Rich Holmes
> > <rsholme...@mailbox.syr.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> Just think of the tragedy of teaching wankers not to think.
> >
> > Are you suggsting I do not think, Rich?

I am not suggsting anything. And what's this "Rich" stuff? Have I
given you permission to address me by my first name? Do I go around
calling you h1dd3n_ham$73r? I am properly referred to as "Doctroid,
Sir".

> > What it is you would have me think about that I am not?
>
> Yeah. And whenceforth is he to have bethought himself as to the
> werewithal by which he is to have given thought thereupon, eh?
>
> Answer me that.

THE STAPLER IS BEHIND YOU.

Jeremy Impson

unread,
Jun 3, 2003, 7:55:53 PM6/3/03
to
On Tue, 3 Jun 2003 h1dd3n_ham$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:

> In alt.religion.kibology Rich Holmes <rsholme...@mailbox.syr.edu> wrote:
>
> > Just think of the tragedy of teaching wankers not to think.
>
> Are you suggsting I do not think, Rich?
>
> What it is you would have me think about that I am not?

That you are perhaps a rogue Eliza program.

--Jeremy

--

Jeremy Impson
jdim...@acm.org
http://impson.tzo.com/~jdimpson

William Burke

unread,
Jun 3, 2003, 11:01:25 PM6/3/03
to
In article <d26Da.6201$QF2.1...@news2.telusplanet.net>,
h1dd3n_ham$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:>

>........................................................................
>
> "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things; The decayed and
> degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing

^sig number one


> is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing
> to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety,
> is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and
> kept so by the exertions of better men than himself"

^sig number two


> - John Stuart Mill
>
>
> .............................................................................

^sig number three
> ds...@m3m3t1ccand1ru.com http://www.memeticcandiru.com
^sig number three point two five

so if you're really concerned about those darned Palestinians, stop
perpetuating the capitalist model by deliberately including more
signature space than you, as an individual human being, have a right to!
greedy worker-exploiting bastard. children are unable to point to Perth
in Africa because of you.

--p

Paula

unread,
Jun 3, 2003, 11:08:32 PM6/3/03
to
David DeLaney <d...@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote:

> Paula <mmmtob...@earthlink.ent> wrote:
> >David DeLaney <d...@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote:
> >> Paula <mmmtob...@earthlink.ent> wrote:
> >> >Enlightening? You are obviously in the wrong place, young man! Try
> >> >buddhism if you want enlightenment. This religion is more about
> >> >fumbling around in the dark trying to find something else, IYKWIM AITYD.
> >>
> >> O,ID,BM,ID.
> >>
> >> (This is not an ode to Kevin's Wilson's state.)
> >
> >Okay, but what the hell is it? Are you trying to push me completely
> >over the edge, Mr. DeLaney, if that is your real name?
>
> It's an anacronym. Like C D B.

WAH!!!! David DeLaney is mocking me instead of helping me!

h1dd3n_...@salmahayeksknockers.edu

unread,
Jun 4, 2003, 1:39:56 AM6/4/03
to
In alt.religion.kibology William Burke <passeng...@email.com> wrote:

> so if you're really concerned about those darned Palestinians, stop
> perpetuating the capitalist model by deliberately including more
> signature space than you

Their problem is not capitalism, it is Colonialism: Colonialism that is
paid for by the US and perpetrated by Jewish Israelis to drive the
Palestinians from their land, kilometer by kilometer.

Ethnic cleansing, in other words.


I've personally witnessed the Israeli army tear gas families as they picked
olives in their groves.

I've seen Israeli tanks mow down children with 50cal rounds in Nablus.

I've seen torture scars, bullet wounds, funerals, beatings, illegal
detention, home invasion, hostage taking, and destruction of farmland,
all courtesy of "The only democracy" in the middle east.


Comparatively, McQ compliance is the least of my concerns.


Your mockery is sad to me, but it is your right and luxury.

--
.............................................................................

Freedom comes from human beings, rather than from laws and institutions.

-Clarence Darrow

.............................................................................
ds...@m3m3t1ccand1ru.com http://www.memeticcandiru.com

William Burke

unread,
Jun 4, 2003, 2:05:24 AM6/4/03
to
In article <MCfDa.9460$6f3.1...@news1.telusplanet.net>,
h1dd3n_ham$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:

> Comparatively, McQ compliance is the least of my concerns.

yes, that's EXACTLY the problem. see, you do understand! communication
is possible. this is a pencil. there's also something about a stapler.
I never got that part down.

--p

Beable van Polasm

unread,
Jun 4, 2003, 5:35:55 AM6/4/03
to

HEY! Don't you KNOW that the SUN she will EXPLODIATE in less than TEN
BILLION YEARS?? Therefore, I am going to rob a bank! If they catch me
and haul me into court, I'll try the "THE SUN SHE EXPLODE!" defence.
If that doesn't work, I'll ask them if I can get a cell somewhere
near the Chief Magistrate of Queensland, who was gaoled today for
BEING A CRIMINAL!

Speaking of criminals, last time I went through Austrian Customs,
they asked me if I had a criminal record. I replied "IF I WAS YOUR
HUSBAND, I'D DRINK IT! BLEEEAAARRRGGGHHHHH! IT'S DRIVING ME NUTS
MATEY!!1"

Paddy Smith

unread,
Jun 4, 2003, 6:08:02 AM6/4/03
to
Rich Holmes wrote:

> h1dd3n_ham$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu writes:
>
>> Have you no shame, Rich? No conscience?
>
> I left them in my other pants.

When you have a CONSCIENCE, you make a CON out of SCIENCE.


Paddy


Paddy Smith

unread,
Jun 4, 2003, 6:20:06 AM6/4/03
to
h1dd3n_ham$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:
>
> I've seen Israeli tanks mow down children with 50cal rounds in Nablus.

ITYM 'attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion'.
Rogue Eliza program? Renegade skin-job. Tell me about your mother.

> Your mockery is sad to me, but it is your right and luxury.

Like tears in rain, mate.


Paddy


revjack

unread,
Jun 4, 2003, 11:12:25 AM6/4/03
to
In alt.religion.kibology h1dd3n_ham$7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu wrote:

: Comparatively, McQ compliance is the least of my concerns.

Then the terrorists have already won.


--
___________________
rev...@revjack.net

h1dd3n_...@salmahayeksknockers.edu

unread,
Jun 4, 2003, 12:32:02 PM6/4/03
to


Brilliant, Paddy! The parallelism occured to me as I wrote, but was too
lazy to re-edit.

Well done.


--
.............................................................................

"The objective truth of the statement is ultimately of no consequence if the
subjective interpretation, by virtue of tone, social context and medium is
one which 'arouses unusually strong and deep-felt emotions of detestation,
calumny and vilification'"
-Infamous "Truth is no defence" judgement by the
Canadian "Human Rights Tribunal" (05/25/1998)

.............................................................................
ds...@m3m3t1ccand1ru.com http://www.memeticcandiru.com

0 new messages