KIBO IS A BOT? BIG WONDER!
Louis Nick III
>war...@powerup.com.au (Christopher McGilvery) writes:
>
>>And Andrea Chen is real or is it really density
>
>Be quiet! We don't want Brain to find out. Otherwise he will
>be seeing me in every other person who posts (again). We just
>cured him of thinking that I'm a govt agent (a belief that he
>now denies that he ever held). We don't want a relapse.
Heya Andrea, did you create Kibo? This is for a bet.
--
"If an atomic-powered taxi hit an atomic-powered streetcar at Forty-second
and Lex, it could completely destroy the whole Grand Central area."
John W. Campbell Jr.
Louis Nick III sn...@u.washington.edu alt.religion.louis-nick
Andrea Chen
>Heya Andrea, did you create Kibo? This is for a bet.
My relationship is a complex story. Many years ago I was going by
the name of H Shen and I came to his attention. We have had a
working identity since then. But no unlike me both Kibo and
Doctress Neutopia both have fleshly identities (in Mass) to help
move the Usenet experiment into the ordinary world. They are
vectors by which we will use the designs created here to
transform reality as ordinary people know it.
-Holly-
Brian Zeiler
> My relationship is a complex story.
How about "yes" or "no"...
--
Brian Zeiler
Bruce Ediger
:Oh Goddess Louis? You made this guy think I'm kibo? Next thing
:I know you'll have him convinced that I'm Doctress Neutopia.
I'm not convinced. Even though you ramble on incessantly and insanely,
you make too much sense to be Drs N., and you presenet too little
humor to be Kibo.
Andrea Chen
>Andrea Chen wrote:
>> My relationship is a complex story.
>How about "yes" or "no"...
Oh Goddess Louis? You made this guy think I'm kibo? Next thing
I know you'll have him convinced that I'm Doctress Neutopia.
Well to answer your question "Brain" the answer is .....
(hold on, it's coming)
NO CARRIER
maybe.
or maybe not.
-ac-
Brian Zeiler
> Oh Goddess Louis? You made this guy think I'm kibo?
Heh. Actually, it was the other way around.
See, Louis Nick III is asking you this to "settle a bet", but he's
really trying to settle a TROLL. That's right, Louis -- to use your
idiotic acronym, YHBT! You have been trolled. It's hilarious how you
actually asked Andrea to "settle a bet" and ask her if she's Kibo.
That Louis Nick III sure was a pretty easy troll, considering the fact
that he trolled me last fall. His faith in my sincerity was quite clear,
which is rather pathetic. You'd think he wouldn't trust me, considering
I have a clear revenge motive. But trust me he did. Unfortunately,
while his faith in my sincerity makes the troll somewhat successful, he
was not convinced of the validity of the information. Still, he thought
it worthy of asking you whether or not you are Kibo, so he acted publicly
to attempt to verify the trolled information he received from me.
So, my little troll on Louis Nick III had mixed success, which in itself
is actually a roaring success considering, as mentioned, I was the victim
of his troll. The hunter becomes the hunted. Way to go, Nick!
And notice the initial strategy was to appeal to his raging, explosive
ego by insinuating that he had been suckered. That, of course, piqued
his curiosity. Easy one to read, that Nick. Convincing him of my
sincerity was not only the easiest part, but also one of the main
hallmarks of a successful troll.
Here's the troll:
Brian Zeiler
six months ago and KNOWING full well I was bound to strike back, you
actually believe my sincerity and ask Chen to "settle a bet" (ROFLMAO)
and admit as to whether or not "he" is Kibo. Ha! Pathetic!
--
Brian Zeiler
Andrea Chen
>dben...@crl.com (Andrea Chen) wrote:
>:Oh Goddess Louis? You made this guy think I'm kibo? Next thing
>:I know you'll have him convinced that I'm Doctress Neutopia.
>I'm not convinced. Even though you ramble on incessantly and insanely,
>you make too much sense to be Drs N., and you presenet too little
>humor to be Kibo.
That is the correct answer. Like the other Monster Truck Neutopians
you have been programmed well. It is a documented fact that I
totally lack a sense of humor.
There are some who may wonder why we programmed this individuals
with these belief (which they affirm through the mantra "boring,
boring") The answer is before your eyes. It probably took Mr.
Nick a considerable amount of effort to convince the (not very
bright) Brian Zeiler that I might be kibo (a belief which given
past behavior we can expect him to deny), but with just one
obvious post Mr. Ediger seriously considers the possibility.
I offer this as testimony to the quality of neu neutopian
programming.
-ac-
Sourcerer
I wonder if Brian's informant being from Denver is merely serendipitous
or an indication that he might have been trolled by Paul Wolfe.
(__) Sourcerer
/(<>)\ O|O|O|O||O||O
\../ |OO|||O|||O|| "Real Life is a story told in Cyberspace."
|| OO|||OO||O||O -- Sweet Poly
Andrea Chen
I think we can say with delight that Brian has fallen once more.
For those who don't know his background he was once convinced
that Louis Nick and a couple of others were super Secret agents
and went on asking pages of breathless questions until the
absurdity became apparent to him. Evidently he planned to post the
whole thing until Nick pointed out it made him look like
an idiot.
Lately Nick and one of Brains more "confidential" contacts
(whose name remains unknown) wrote me that our hero was being
trolled once more and been led into beliefs which made the
first case look almost rational. One wonders and hopes because
Brian is one of the greatest unintentional satirists on the
net. This is a guy who is (I don't make this up) known to
sign his threatening letters "Big Bad Motha Fucka Brian Zeiler."
He has offered to invest the NSA pension fund if Dean Adams
(who he consistently claims is a govt psyop) will give
him top secret into about aliens. He has defended claims of
mile long flying saucers over populated areas of Colorado.
The list goes on and on.
Yesderday "Brain" was in his usual demanding style telling
me to level about whether or not I was kibo. I even got
a letter from him which I left unread because such things
are usually vapid threats. I naturally assumed that Nick
was behind this belief. That he had taken whatever silliness
Brian was feeding him and extended it. In this I was
evidently wrong. Someone else did it.
For whatever reason the troll must have also blown last night
or this morning because now Brian is claiming that it was all
a joke he created. In other words he managed to convince
Nick into thinking he was an idiot. Well first of all,
"Brain" lacks the capacity to take himself with anything
but utmost pompousness. Second of all anyone who has read his
claims about flying saucers and wormholes popping up in
the atmosphere and all the spooks right here in alt.alien.visitors
who are persecuting him would not be surprised at anything
he comes up with.
I have just skimmed the letters after "Brains" somewhat feeble
attempt to claim that it was all a troll. I also had some
comments from one of those people who "Brain" confides with
along with some odd mail accusing me of being certain other
individuals and warning that my secret game is known. So
in addition to my reading there is this evidence. Brian
got taken for a ride. Whoever did this very brilliant troll,
pulled the plug or went too far. Brian with egg all over his
face since he announced the whole thing in a gloating
voice to Nick now tries to cover his silly little bottom and
that he spent hours and hours desribing this dastardly
plot just so Nick would think that he was off in outer
space.
When I look at the exchange I find Nick coming across as quite
credible. He could have helped feed into Brains fantasies yet
for the most part he tries to throw cold water on them.
Now we have Brain boasting that he pulled some sort of
fantastic coup by looking like an idiot. Sorry Brian you
do this on a regular basis. Anyone who knows you will
believe that you bought the whole thing, hook line and
sinker and are now trying to weasel out.
-ac-
Brian Zeiler <bdze...@students.wisc.edu> writes:
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>Andrea Chen wrote:
>> Oh Goddess Louis? You made this guy think I'm kibo?
>Heh. Actually, it was the other way around.
>See, Louis Nick III is asking you this to "settle a bet", but he's
>really trying to settle a TROLL. That's right, Louis -- to use your
>idiotic acronym, YHBT! You have been trolled. It's hilarious how you
>actually asked Andrea to "settle a bet" and ask her if she's Kibo.
Reading the letters it isn't ridiculous. You clearly believed it.
Some people might not know your background, but you're the guy
who didn't even know what a crosspost was a few months back.
The only place you heard of kibo was on alt.alien.visitors.
So it is clear that someone yanked you into believing some
pretty fantastic stuff. I think Louis was probably quite
amused by your fantasy. Yes he wanted to have fun with it,
but he also wanted to bring you back to reality.
>That Louis Nick III sure was a pretty easy troll, considering the fact
>that he trolled me last fall. His faith in my sincerity was quite clear,
>which is rather pathetic.
Wait a second. You're the guy who is always running around saying
that you never lie and getting mad whenever anyone ever has fun
in aav because you think every thing must be read literally. Now
it is pathetic to believe your claims of sincerity? Sheesh
"Brain" that was the only thing you had going for you.
>You'd think he wouldn't trust me, considering
>I have a clear revenge motive. But trust me he did. Unfortunately,
>while his faith in my sincerity makes the troll somewhat successful, he
>was not convinced of the validity of the information. Still, he thought
>it worthy of asking you whether or not you are Kibo, so he acted publicly
>to attempt to verify the trolled information he received from me.
I use this as an example to show how far gone you are from
reality. Nick posted your claim publicly because its funny as
hell. He probably couldn't resist. Sheesh this guy knows me
and he knows kibo. Do you think he expected a straight
answer?
There is no way in hell that such a question could be "verified"
by such a question. Only you would believe it. It's like when
you ask people whether or not they are super top secret agents
out to cover up the truth about aliens. If they were do you think
they would admit it?
The above proves that you think Nick is as clueless as you.
Reading your letters I can see why Nick cracked up. And I
can see how he couldn't help but tease you by posting that
question.
But no, if he had believed your story, he wouldn't have gone
about "verifying" it that way. There are about a dozen people
in ark who can affirm this about Nick. And there are over
a dozen people in aav who can affirm that you will believe
anything.
>So, my little troll on Louis Nick III had mixed success, which in itself
>is actually a roaring success considering, as mentioned, I was the victim
>of his troll. The hunter becomes the hunted. Way to go, Nick!
Wait a second! You spent hours and hours and hours concocting this
fantasy and explaining it to Nick (and at least one other whose
name will be unmentioned). Nick is obviously fascinated and
amused. Plays along a little and also tries to bring you back
to reality. And now you are claiming some sort of great
victory because you convinced Nick that you had really gone
over the edge this time?
Brian this rationalization, this attempt to cover up your belief
in a story that you clearly bought (the letters speak for
themselves) is absurd.
Basically what you are saying is that you convinced Louis into
thinking you were a raving maniac (something most of us believed
already). You now post documents including this half
assed attempt to cover up your gullibility that further
confirm you are deranged and you are gloating about how
you are some sort of predator!?
>And notice the initial strategy was to appeal to his raging, explosive
>ego by insinuating that he had been suckered. That, of course, piqued
>his curiosity. Easy one to read, that Nick. Convincing him of my
>sincerity was not only the easiest part, but also one of the main
>hallmarks of a successful troll.
Brian Nick wrote me and several others that someone was trolling
you big time, but he couldn't go into details because he
promised. He was writing things like "I wish I could tell
you, I just spilled my drink." I told him that it might
be fun to play you alone with whatever you were doing
and he said he couldn't, he had to try to throw some
common sense at you and bring you back to reality.
He was actually rather worried while being amused. And I
happen to know that Nick isn't the only one you passed this
story to.
As for successful trolls, whoever fed you this stuff did a
damn good job. I don't know if they blew it by accident or
by pity (and if I did know I wouldn't be saying). But yes
in a way you have just committed a brilliant troll, a meta
troll if you will. You have just trolled yourself. In your
mad scrabble attempt to convince Nick that you didn't really
believe what you wrote, you have just made yourself look
like an idiot. No one who has observed your posts in
aav is going to doubt that you were completely sincere
in these letters. And now you have the idiocy to publish
them. To announce to the world what an idiot you are.
Your cover story is lame as is your gloating (how many
paragraphs has this gone on) that this is the best troll
ever pulled on Usenet.
Note: the troll Brian refers to in the beginning is when
Louis convinced him that he was a top secret govt agent
and started feeding him info. Latter Brian wrote an
article proving that Louis did not exist. Hopefully
Nick has kept copies of both.
>Here's the troll:
>--------------84415AE36EB
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>Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 01:38:36 -0700
>From: Brian Zeiler <bdze...@students.wisc.edu>
>To: Louis Nick III <sn...@u.washington.edu>
>Subject: Re: We keep trying to prove t
>Louis Nick III wrote:
>> Take it elsewhere, Brian. You inferred it, he implied no such thing.
>You know what's truly shocking, Lou? You have no idea why you were asked
>to be part of this. You are such a classic "useful idiot" that it's
>beyond your comprehension. The infamous "troll" was significant for
>reasons far outside your narrow paradigm, yet mysteriously, you have
>failed to grasp the significance.
>You are basically part of a mind control experiment, a manipulation that
>has exceeded expectations, hence the term "useful idiot". You don't even
>know why you're dealing with Chen or why you were asked to participate in
>the troll. I'm guessing they appealed to your ego. Pathetic. You have
>no idea how deep you are into this or why you do what you do, yet you do
>it nevertheless because of their flattery. For somebody as intelligent
>as you appear to be, you are a real idiot.
>Brian
>Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 00:40:50 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Louis Nick III <sn...@u.washington.edu>
>To: Brian Zeiler <bdze...@students.wisc.edu>
>Subject: Re: We keep trying to prove t
>On Wed, 17 Apr 1996, Brian Zeiler wrote:
>> You know what's truly shocking, Lou? You have no idea why you were asked
>> to be part of this. You are such a classic "useful idiot" that it's
>> beyond your comprehension. The infamous "troll" was significant for
>> reasons far outside your narrow paradigm, yet mysteriously, you have
>> failed to grasp the significance.
>>
>> You are basically part of a mind control experiment, a manipulation that
>> has exceeded expectations, hence the term "useful idiot". You don't even
>> know why you're dealing with Chen or why you were asked to participate in
>> the troll. I'm guessing they appealed to your ego. Pathetic. You have
>> no idea how deep you are into this or why you do what you do, yet you do
>> it nevertheless because of their flattery. For somebody as intelligent
>> as you appear to be, you are a real idiot.
>I could say the same thing about you. The fact remains that this is a
>troll, because nobody would willingly say such things.
>But, if you retain your convictions, I'd like to post this to
>alt.religion.louis-nick and alt.religion.kibology. I'll keep it out of
>aav to keep from alienating (pun!) you from your friends.
>Either way, I wish you'd post it, because then I could change my .sig for
>the better by quoting you.
>You just can't buy comedy like this anymore.
>Do I try to deny it? No, because ever mentally ill people, not that I'm
>saying you are, think they are right, think that they make sense, etc.
>Who are we to question.
>No, to tell you the Truth wouldn't be nearly as much fun as to see you
>maintain this ridiculous thread. IWNBT.
>Brian, let me say this. You are very clever much of the time. If I had
>money, and you're as good as you say, I'd probably let you invest it. But
>the fact is that I've been accused of working for the government, of being
>an AI, and Andrea Chen once told me that I was scaring even her during the
>troll.
>I'd thought I'd seen it all, but you have this. And I am only amused.
>How funny, I keep thinking. And I can't talk you out of it. Well, it's
>true that if I am merely a man looking at shadows on a cave wall, then you
>could be right. But I'm not ready for such a shift in paradigms.
>Keep up what it is you do, Brian. Really.
>--
>"If an atomic-powered taxi hit an atomic-powered streetcar at Forty-second
>and Lex, it could completely destroy the whole Grand Central area."
> John W. Campbell Jr.
>Louis Nick III sn...@u.washington.edu alt.religion.louis-nick
>To: Louis Nick III <sn...@u.washington.edu>
>From: bdze...@students.wisc.edu (Brian Zeiler)
>Subject: Re: We keep trying to prove t
>>I could say the same thing about you. The fact remains that this is a
>>troll, because nobody would willingly say such things.
>No, not a troll.
>>But, if you retain your convictions, I'd like to post this to
>>alt.religion.louis-nick and alt.religion.kibology. I'll keep it out of
>>aav to keep from alienating (pun!) you from your friends.
>No. Grow up. You're a grown man and should be able to communicate privately
>without trying to impress your peers like a 16 year old in a locker room.
>You're in college, so act like it.
>>Either way, I wish you'd post it, because then I could change my .sig for
>>the better by quoting you.
>See above. Grow up. Usenet is a communication medium, not a channel for
>childish intellectual masturbation. For somebody as intelligent as you
>appear to be, you act like a little kid.
>>You just can't buy comedy like this anymore.
>You truly have no idea how that applies to you here. None.
>>If I had
>>money, and you're as good as you say, I'd probably let you invest it.
>But I wouldn't invest it for you. My fund is institutional (clue: it works).
>>But
>>the fact is that I've been accused of working for the government, of being
>>an AI, and Andrea Chen once told me that I was scaring even her during the
>>troll.
>I thought you were government at first, but you're not. You really are a
>very smart, very naive 19/20 year old who has no idea what he's getting into
>or why he is with these people. You really don't know.
>Do you think I post everything I know? Don't you understand the purpose of
>the troll yet, and why you were asked to participate? I *KNOW* you were
>asked. You just don't understand why.
>You don't understand the purpose of this Usenet "culture" with people that
>type in StAgGeReD CaPs and say "SuPeRsEkRiT PsYoP d00d" and other dorky
>phrases. You have no idea who these people are, why they asked for your
>help, and why you're a pathetic victim of mass population experimentation
>coupled with "useful-idiot" disinformation tactics.
>Again, you still don't understand why you were asked to do the troll, and
>you still have not asked yourself what Andrea Chen does for a living. She
>has already been traced to intelligence, and she is highly likely a *he*.
>I do not want you to post or distribute this email, so permission is denied.
>If you are a mature adult, you will not, because you value email as a private
>communication channel. If you post or distribute this, you will publicly
>prove yourself to be a childish immature geek with an admirable intellect
>and the maturity of a ten-year-old.
>Start asking yourself some questions about who the "neu-neutopians" really
>are and why you're a pathetic mass-media experiment and a useful idiot.
>You truly have no idea of how helpful you've been to them... hence the term
>"useful idiot". If you still can't figure out why the troll occurred and
>why your help was enlisted, you have no common sense.
>Brian
>To: Louis Nick III <sn...@u.washington.edu>
>From: bdze...@students.wisc.edu (Brian Zeiler)
>Subject: Re: Neu-neutopian mindcontrol
>>Well, sage, tell my why I was asked, and by whom.
>I'm not sure *who* asked you, but I know you were asked. Chen works for
>Raytheon, and he came to Raytheon after working in some sort of computer
>position at the Defense Intelligence Agency. And usually, when an
>intelligence scientist goes to the private sector, he stays with a private
>contractor that has good business ties with the intelligence agency. That
>way, the contracting division will basically become another wing of the
>agency where they can work without as much scrutiny.
>Anyway, Chen was asked to start a departmental program a few years ago under
>contract with the DIA to try to create a Usenet "culture". This is also done
>with AT&T's Sandia National Labs (where Earl works). The purpose of the
>culture was twofold. One, it was to see how feasible mass crowd manipulation
>can be over this new communication medium by trying to draw in "recruits"
>that conform to the exclusive, mysterious group (neu-neutopia) in terms of
>their functional presence. Aside from the basic characteristic styles and
>behaviors of the neu-neutopians, the presence was also to ridicule conspiracy
>theorists (hence alt.alien.visitors and alt.politics.org.cia where Chen is
>found), but under a good guise -- the guise of young, computer-savvy,
>intelligent and witty geeks. And the real gem is that the mind control
>aspect brings in the useful idiots (that's you!).
>See, they create a culture of wacky fun-lovers that enjoy "trolling" or
>ridiculing conspiracy "buffs", and then regular civilians join the fun after
>a while -- but the implicit screening is that the unknowing recruits like
>yourself are pre-selected by conformity by ensuring the recruits will have
>sufficient intelligence and wit to ridicule the conspiracy theorists. And
>when they ask a naive recruit like you to carry out a task, they mask it in
>the cover-story goals of neu-neutopia, which is that they are part of a
>telephone company lab project to create a Usenet culture and explore "the
>meeting between machine and mind", as Chen says when he's asked. But the
>real goal of the program is exploit unknowing recruits by making them think
>it's all fun and games with a pseudocorporate bent, but you're really
>unknowingly executing the mission of the US intelligence community to wage
>psychological warfare tactics in conspiratorial newsgroups.
>>I've met them, eaten with them, crashed at their houses. I'm a part of
>>that culture. I'm a kibologist. I don't often proselytize, but you ought
>>to check us out in the a.r.k.
>This is what I mean. Raytheon and Sandia created the culture to ensnare
>groupies like you and manipulate them into carrying out a specific agenda.
>>Common sense? You mean everyone knows but me? To what ends have I been
>>helpful to "them?"
>You made me look like a gullible idiot.
>The reason I'm telling you all this is because I just found it out, and now
>that I know you're completely unaware of why you did that troll, I'm no
>longer pissed at you about it. It was not your doing, so then I actually
>felt that I should tell you about it since you'd probably want to know,
>right? It actually pissed me off, since it's pretty shameless to manipulate
>an otherwise intelligent undergraduate with a constant charade. So, I guess
>you could say that I forgive you for the troll and that I wanted to inform
>you that you've been exploited by these people.
>If you give me your assurance that you will NOT tell Chen and company
>anything at all about this conversation, even that it ever took place,
>I will tell you how I found out this information and a few more interesting
>things that have come to light. It seems Chen is far more into the "black"
>aspects of Raytheon than I first suspected of him.
>Brian
>Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 14:50:49 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Louis Nick III <sn...@u.washington.edu>
>Reply-To: Louis Nick III <sn...@u.washington.edu>
>To: Brian Zeiler <bdze...@students.wisc.edu>
>Subject: Neu-neutopian mindcontrol
>On Wed, 17 Apr 1996, Brian Zeiler wrote:
>> No, not a troll.
>Well, saying so would negate a troll anyway. I'll presume you're serious
>from this point forward, no matter what you say. (Heh heh)
>But I'll never "bite."
>> >Either way, I wish you'd post it, because then I could change my .sig for
>> >the better by quoting you.
>>
>> See above. Grow up. Usenet is a communication medium, not a channel for
>> childish intellectual masturbation. For somebody as intelligent as you
>> appear to be, you act like a little kid.
>USENET is a network of bulletin boards. No more, no less. USENET is what
>we make it. You seem to think it's a serious discussion forum or
>something. It's not. We just can't hark back to the old days when only
>scientists and professors used ARPAnet. Now anyone with a disk drive and
>a modem can plug in. USENET is now what we want it to be, what we make
>it.
>> >You just can't buy comedy like this anymore.
>>
>> You truly have no idea how that applies to you here. None.
>I think I have a greater concept than you imagine. Because I can't read
>your posts and emails with a straight face anymore.
>> I thought you were government at first, but you're not. You really are a
>> very smart, very naive 19/20 year old who has no idea what he's getting into
>> or why he is with these people. You really don't know.
>I know as much as you can know.
>> Do you think I post everything I know? Don't you understand the purpose of
>> the troll yet, and why you were asked to participate? I *KNOW* you were
>> asked. You just don't understand why.
>Well, sage, tell my why I was asked, and by whom. This is getting better
>by the second. I've been trolling since before you joined AAV. And I'm
>good. It doesn't matter why I think you're motivated to tell me this,
>because I know better about these things than you could anyday. But,
>being a realist, there's nothing I could say that isn't consistant with
>your theory. I have a few theories why you say these things, mostly
>consisting of "Brian's just still bitter from when I trolled him good, yuk
>yuk." Well, I know better. I know that you, like me, are very likely a
>person, perhaps working for the government, likely under the influence of
>mind control, and too close to whole process to have any control over it.
>Well, Brian, if I've never known otherwise, then you're right. But how,
>indeed, could I know better? I'll tell you. You, sir, have the same
>thing going for you. You are being manipulated to influence the economy
>and believers in general. You may work for the government, because
>they're the only employer that would pay for this sort of garbage.
>> You don't understand the purpose of this Usenet "culture" with people that
>> type in StAgGeReD CaPs and say "SuPeRsEkRiT PsYoP d00d" and other dorky
>> phrases. You have no idea who these people are, why they asked for your
>> help, and why you're a pathetic victim of mass population experimentation
>> coupled with "useful-idiot" disinformation tactics.
>I've met them, eaten with them, crashed at their houses. I'm a part of
>that culture. I'm a kibologist. I don't often proselytize, but you ought
>to check us out in the a.r.k.
>> Again, you still don't understand why you were asked to do the troll, and
>> you still have not asked yourself what Andrea Chen does for a living. She
>> has already been traced to intelligence, and she is highly likely a *he*.
>Traced to intelligence? When? Where? What? You don't know what you're
>talking about, and your authoritative sentences are no better for
>convincing me, because I don't even trust my own beliefs, why should I
>trust anyone else`s? So what if she's a he? Big deal, I never talk about
>sex or guy/chyk stuff with her, so it's never an issue. The fact that
>Andrea claims to be a woman (in whatever passive capacity) has no affect
>on what I think of her ideas and posts.
>> I do not want you to post or distribute this email, so permission is denied.
>You`re breaking my heart! :^)
>> If you are a mature adult, you will not, because you value email as a
>> private communication channel. If you post or distribute this, you will
>> publicly prove yourself to be a childish immature geek with an admirable
>> intellect and the maturity of a ten-year-old.
>Well, I see the objective truth to that. That's a tad bit one-sided,
>isn't it? You never think critically about your own beliefs, Brian. You
>just have a way of assuming that what you experience, everyone else must.
>But that's just your context, which is wholly different from everyone
>else's. You seem to be starting from a basic assuption that somehow I'm
>wrong in the things I say and do.
>But, objectively, I can't be.
>> Start asking yourself some questions about who the "neu-neutopians" really
>> are and why you're a pathetic mass-media experiment and a useful idiot. You
>> truly have no idea of how helpful you've been to them... hence the term
>> "useful idiot". If you still can't figure out why the troll occurred and
>> why your help was enlisted, you have no common sense.
>Common sense? You mean everyone knows but me? To what ends have I been
>helpful to "them?"
>--
>"If an atomic-powered taxi hit an atomic-powered streetcar at Forty-second
>and Lex, it could completely destroy the whole Grand Central area."
> John W. Campbell Jr.
>Louis Nick III sn...@u.washington.edu alt.religion.louis-nick
>Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 12:19:30 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Louis Nick III <sn...@u.washington.edu>
>To: Brian Zeiler <bdze...@students.wisc.edu>
>Subject: Re: Neu-neutopian mindcontrol
>On Thu, 18 Apr 1996, Brian Zeiler wrote:
>> >Well, sage, tell my why I was asked, and by whom.
>>
>> I'm not sure *who* asked you, but I know you were asked.
>And if I wasn't? The idea came about in a conversation with Tom
>Richardson, whom I've met in person. So is he really Andrea Chen?
>> And usually, when an
>> intelligence scientist goes to the private sector, he stays with a private
>> contractor that has good business ties with the intelligence agency. That
>> way, the contracting division will basically become another wing of the
>> agency where they can work without as much scrutiny.
>But not always. You're making your assumptions again. Who's telling you
>this stuff?
>> Anyway, Chen was asked to start a departmental program a few years ago under
>> contract with the DIA to try to create a Usenet "culture". This is also
>> done with AT&T's Sandia National Labs (where Earl works). The purpose of
>> the culture was twofold. One, it was to see how feasible mass crowd
>> manipulation can be over this new communication medium by trying to draw in
>> "recruits" that conform to the exclusive, mysterious group (neu-neutopia) in
>> terms of their functional presence. Aside from the basic characteristic
>> styles and behaviors of the neu-neutopians, the presence was also to
>> ridicule conspiracy theorists (hence alt.alien.visitors and
>> alt.politics.org.cia where Chen is found), but under a good guise -- the
>> guise of young, computer-savvy, intelligent and witty geeks. And the real
>> gem is that the mind control aspect brings in the useful idiots (that's you!).
>Sounds like quite a conspiracy indeed. But complimenting me won't buy
>right off. I have no connection with the neu-neutopians, unless they
>somehow created Kibo or something.
>However, your theory about Earl's workplace, Sandia, does have an
>interesting sidenote, a story that Tom Richardson likes to tell. (Tom has
>been on and off whatever resembles USENET for the last 10 years or so.)
>Back in the old days of the Bell empire, all the traffic went through
>phonelines, and the profit went to old Ma Bell. Well, it seems that there
>was one guy posting from an AT&T lab or Bell labs, or whatever, by the
>name of Rich Rosen. He is generally credited with inventing flamebait.
>He would write some inflamatory arguements and send it down the backbone
>of old ARPAnet, and people would write back by the hundreds. Remember
>that the old system had 1-2 day delays in transmission up and back the
>backbone, so these threas would last forever. Everyone figured he was
>part of Bell's plan to increase profit, and since he was actually from a
>Bell Lab, some speculated that he was an AI, because Bell was working on
>those things in that day.
>> See, they create a culture of wacky fun-lovers that enjoy "trolling" or
>> ridiculing conspiracy "buffs", and then regular civilians join the fun after
>> a while -- but the implicit screening is that the unknowing recruits like
>> yourself are pre-selected by conformity by ensuring the recruits will have
>> sufficient intelligence and wit to ridicule the conspiracy theorists.
>Nah, whoever told you that is missing the point or something. The system
>is very dynamic, in a Darwinian fashion. We troll each other, you see.
>Anyone who can't keep up, well, nobody reads their trolls, or they head
>back to the startrek groups for more training in trolling.
>> And
>> when they ask a naive recruit like you to carry out a task, they mask it in
>> the cover-story goals of neu-neutopia, which is that they are part of a
>> telephone company lab project to create a Usenet culture and explore "the
>> meeting between machine and mind", as Chen says when he's asked. But the
>> real goal of the program is exploit unknowing recruits by making them think
>> it's all fun and games with a pseudocorporate bent, but you're really
>> unknowingly executing the mission of the US intelligence community to wage
>> psychological warfare tactics in conspiratorial newsgroups.
>I'm not familiar with this pseudocorporate bent you mention. Please
>elaborate.
>> >I've met them, eaten with them, crashed at their houses. I'm a part of
>> >that culture. I'm a kibologist. I don't often proselytize, but you ought
>> >to check us out in the a.r.k.
>>
>> This is what I mean. Raytheon and Sandia created the culture to ensnare
>> groupies like you and manipulate them into carrying out a specific agenda.
>They created *Kibo?*
>> >Common sense? You mean everyone knows but me? To what ends have I been
>> >helpful to "them?"
>>
>> You made me look like a gullible idiot.
>Well, I did that. You've made a certain assumption here that you can't
>seem to consider is an assumption. You assume that you aren't a gullible
>idiot, or at least acting like one. Whoever gives you this obviously
>false information is trolling you still. Can't be Chuck Jordan, can it?
>> The reason I'm telling you all this is because I just found it out, and now
>> that I know you're completely unaware of why you did that troll, I'm no
>> longer pissed at you about it. It was not your doing, so then I actually
>> felt that I should tell you about it since you'd probably want to know,
>> right? It actually pissed me off, since it's pretty shameless to manipulate
>> an otherwise intelligent undergraduate with a constant charade. So, I guess
>> you could say that I forgive you for the troll and that I wanted to inform
>> you that you've been exploited by these people.
>Oh, my hero. Brian, if I was being manipulated, I couldn't know,
>therefore I could never have a problem with it. There is no objective
>truth, you see, and not only is the truth what I make it, but the truth is
>what others make it for me. You see, I'm copmletely aware of why I did
>that troll. I did it for me and for aav. I did it for fun. And I did it
>because sometimes you sound like you are so full of yourself that you
>needed to be jerked out of the water and weighed before a crowd, so that
>you might learn something. IF my mind is being controlled, however, I
>suppose that this belief of mine is consistant with your hypothesis about
>the neu neutopians.
>> If you give me your assurance that you will NOT tell Chen and company
>> anything at all about this conversation, even that it ever took place, I
>> will tell you how I found out this information and a few more interesting
>> things that have come to light. It seems Chen is far more into the "black"
>> aspects of Raytheon than I first suspected of him.
>Consider yourself assured. I'd like to hear much more.
>--
>"If an atomic-powered taxi hit an atomic-powered streetcar at Forty-second
>and Lex, it could completely destroy the whole Grand Central area."
> John W. Campbell Jr.
>Louis Nick III sn...@u.washington.edu alt.religion.louis-nick
>To: Louis Nick III <sn...@u.washington.edu>
>From: bdze...@students.wisc.edu (Brian Zeiler)
>Subject: Re: Neu-neutopian mindcontrol
>>On Thu, 18 Apr 1996, Brian Zeiler wrote:
>>
>>> >Well, sage, tell my why I was asked, and by whom.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure *who* asked you, but I know you were asked.
>>
>>And if I wasn't? The idea came about in a conversation with Tom
>>Richardson, whom I've met in person. So is he really Andrea Chen?
>Heh. No, but he's one of the "originals" like Chen. I used to think Chen
>created all of those goofballs, but he only creates random here-today-gone-
>tomorrow characters to create huge ongoing discussions.
>>> And usually, when an
>>> intelligence scientist goes to the private sector, he stays with a private
>>> contractor that has good business ties with the intelligence agency. That
>>> way, the contracting division will basically become another wing of the
>>> agency where they can work without as much scrutiny.
>>
>>But not always. You're making your assumptions again.
>Right, that's why I opened the paragraph with "and usually".
>>Who's telling you
>>this stuff?
>I dug up a lot of the info by my own sleuthing, and I eventually talked to
>somebody on the phone that I found out used to be tightly involved with the
>program with Chen and Richardson. He was relocated to Denver in 1993. He
>thinks they're a bunch of idiots and doesn't care about talking about it as
>long as I don't splash his name and this story all over. He thinks they
>screwed him or something like that. This isn't part of the "UFO conspiracy"
>directly, especially as far as he knows anyway. At least, he's never said
>anything about UFOs. But, he does know exactly about this program and what
>it was meant to do -- recruit expendable people like you to carry out an
>agenda with the appealing ruse of the "culture", as I explained yesterday.
>If you screw up or damage their agenda, they'll just make you look like an
>idiot. That's how McGowan got excommunicated -- he was a pawn like you, but
>at a somewhat higher level with British Telecom. But, eventually screwed up
>a few things and got de-neutopianized. So far, you've done well, so they've
>kept you on and even asked you back for more, presumably.
>>Sounds like quite a conspiracy indeed. But complimenting me won't buy
>>right off. I have no connection with the neu-neutopians, unless they
>>somehow created Kibo or something.
>Yes!!! Chen himself created Kibo. That was integral to the objective.
>>Well, it seems that there
>>was one guy posting from an AT&T lab or Bell labs, or whatever, by the
>>name of Rich Rosen. He is generally credited with inventing flamebait.
>>He would write some inflamatory arguements and send it down the backbone
>>of old ARPAnet, and people would write back by the hundreds.
>Just like James McGowan...
>>Everyone figured he was
>>part of Bell's plan to increase profit
>But that's the cover... if you dig really deep, you'll *think* you've
>uncovered the agenda that they work with phone outfits like British Telecom
>and Sandia (AT&T's arm). But in reality, that's just to appease the curious.
>Like I said, they create a culture, recruit wanna-bes, and get them to
>infiltrate conspiratorial newsgroups and flood them with confrontational
>mindfucks, basic psychological warfare. If the numbers multiply as expected,
>it's more efficient than employing hundreds of people to do this because
>it's cheaper and there's less leakage risk. Basically, they create a group
>of people that wage psychological warfare on conspiracy theorists and enjoy
>doing it, and they don't have to be briefed on *why* they're doing it.
>Pretty clever!
>>> See, they create a culture of wacky fun-lovers that enjoy "trolling" or
>>> ridiculing conspiracy "buffs", and then regular civilians join the fun after
>>> a while -- but the implicit screening is that the unknowing recruits like
>>> yourself are pre-selected by conformity by ensuring the recruits will have
>>> sufficient intelligence and wit to ridicule the conspiracy theorists.
>>
>>Nah, whoever told you that is missing the point or something. The system
>>is very dynamic, in a Darwinian fashion. We troll each other, you see.
>>Anyone who can't keep up, well, nobody reads their trolls, or they head
>>back to the startrek groups for more training in trolling.
>But you've fallen for the bait. YOU are the one that's been meta-trolled
>for months and you haven't realized how you've beautifully executed their
>agenda. What better way to trash a conspiratorial newsgroup than to recruit
>willful lackeys to do it? Even if you think there are no UFOs, there's
>still a lot of juicy info in the group about the CIA and NSA's past dirty
>deeds, rumored secret aircraft, and so on. It's fertile ground for
>experimentation with these mass population control techniques (more like
>influence, really) to spawn a chaotic form of a disinformation and
>psychological warfare campaign. The Usenet medium is being taken VERY
>seriously in intelligence for all sorts of purposes. This is just one.
>It's also integral in intentional disinformation toward foreign operatives
>monitoring various political newsgroups, for instance.
>>> it's all fun and games with a pseudocorporate bent, but you're really
>>> unknowingly executing the mission of the US intelligence community to wage
>>> psychological warfare tactics in conspiratorial newsgroups.
>>
>>I'm not familiar with this pseudocorporate bent you mention. Please
>>elaborate.
>The pseudocorporate bent is the whole phone outfit cover, turning a culture
>into profits from phone usage. Like I said, when they're pressed, they'll
>"confide" in you that it's for the phone outfits, like Richardson and Earl
>and McGowan. But that's BS. Sandia does plenty of DoE work outside of AT&T
>contracting, and McGowan has never posted from a BT address to prove his
>association with them.
>>> >I've met them, eaten with them, crashed at their houses. I'm a part of
>>> >that culture. I'm a kibologist. I don't often proselytize, but you ought
>>> >to check us out in the a.r.k.
>>>
>>> This is what I mean. Raytheon and Sandia created the culture to ensnare
>>> groupies like you and manipulate them into carrying out a specific agenda.
>>
>>They created *Kibo?*
>YES. Chen himself is 100% responsible for Kibo... and for Density4. Chen
>types like an illiterate on purpose... obviously he is too intelligent to
>type so incompetently with such horrific spelling. Density4 and Chen are
>one and the same, but it's more like Density4 is the "real" person. Chen
>is the mindfuck character while Density4 plays more of a conditioning and
>molding role. Dean Adams even knows this much because he cooperates with
>him, and vice versa. Notice how Chen props up Dean when he's getting
>battered? Dean likely works with the National Security Agency, but who knows
>what for. When he's asked, he doesn't deny it, and he even admits being in
>intelligence. Maybe it's to debunk UFOs, but that seems a little too
>obvious. He says it's to "keep facts straight", which is a laugh, since
>usually he just distorts things with ridicule. Even Chen doesn't seem to
>know exactly what he's about, but they seem to have reached a sort of mutual
>tolerance and agreement to prop each other up when necessary. There's
>probably more to their bizarre relationship, though.
>Dean found out that Chen and Density4 were the same person two years ago,
>apparently, and he was a little annoyed at wasting his time ridiculing D4
>like he used to. But, even though Dean's probably NSA, his bark is worse
>than his bite. He seems pretty young and without much clout. I think he
>is involved with satellites. If the subject of satellites comes up, Dean
>exhibits enormous technical knowledge and familiarity that a layman simply
>cannot have -- knowledge beyond his aviation hobbyist knowledge.
>>Whoever gives you this obviously
>>false information is trolling you still.
>But this information is not from email or the newsgroup. It's from somebody
>I found myself that knows WAY too many specifics about them and their agenda.
>In fact, I've got some FOIAs pending with the DoE, Sandia specifically, and
>with the Defense Intelligence Agency.
>>Can't be Chuck Jordan, can it?
>No, Chuck's a nice guy, but he's one of the "usefuls".
>>Oh, my hero. Brian, if I was being manipulated, I couldn't know,
>>therefore I could never have a problem with it.
>But now you know.
>>You see, I'm copmletely aware of why I did
>>that troll. I did it for me and for aav. I did it for fun.
>You did it because you were attracted to this newsgroup because of the
>appeal of the whole neu-neutopian culture, their elitism and their ridicule
>of people like me. You liked the idea, they praised you, and you went with
>it.
>>Consider yourself assured.
>Good. I hope you haven't been Bcc'ing Chen here, because all this will do
>is probably get the other guy fired (again).
>>I'd like to hear much more.
>Well, the "darkest secret" of this all is the Chen/D4 dualism. There's a
>few more details, especially on Chen/D4, but that's basically it. It's too
>bad you can't file an FOIA with a defense contractor, because I'd sure love
>to find out what the hell Raytheon has to do with this whole thing. And I
>think Earl must be pretty deep into it like Chen, but behind the scenes,
>since he doesn't post too much but he is at Sandia. Hard to say. The guy
>I talked to doesn't know all the details about everybody's involvement and
>roles, or at least he's not telling me it all. But I would like to find out
>more about Raytheon.
>I just think the plan was brilliant, though, the part about recruiting
>unwitting subjects to multiply geometrically in population and carry out
>psychological warfare campaigns without even having to be briefed on why
>they're doing it. As D4 says, they're pretty clever, those psyop bastards.
>Brian
>Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 23:57:37 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Louis Nick III <sn...@u.washington.edu>
>Reply-To: Louis Nick III <sn...@u.washington.edu>
>To: Brian Zeiler <bdze...@students.wisc.edu>
>Subject: Re: Neu-neutopian mindcontrol
>On Thu, 18 Apr 1996, Brian Zeiler wrote:
>> >Who's telling you
>> >this stuff?
>>
>> I dug up a lot of the info by my own sleuthing, and I eventually talked to
>> somebody on the phone that I found out used to be tightly involved with the
>> program with Chen and Richardson. He was relocated to Denver in 1993. He
>> thinks they're a bunch of idiots and doesn't care about talking about it as
>> long as I don't splash his name and this story all over. He thinks they
>> screwed him or something like that.
>Sounds like Bruce.
>> This isn't part of the "UFO conspiracy"
>> directly, especially as far as he knows anyway. At least, he's never said
>> anything about UFOs. But, he does know exactly about this program and what
>> it was meant to do -- recruit expendable people like you to carry out an
>> agenda with the appealing ruse of the "culture", as I explained yesterday.
>Oh, I'm expendable? What are they going to do, take my ego? So what if
>it's an agenda?
>> If you screw up or damage their agenda, they'll just make you look like an
>> idiot. That's how McGowan got excommunicated -- he was a pawn like you, but
>> at a somewhat higher level with British Telecom. But, eventually screwed up
>> a few things and got de-neutopianized. So far, you've done well, so they've
>> kept you on and even asked you back for more, presumably.
>Now you're getting really presumptuous. I wasn't aware that James worked
>for BT. Anyone can get a demon account.
>> >Sounds like quite a conspiracy indeed. But complimenting me won't buy
>> >right off. I have no connection with the neu-neutopians, unless they
>> >somehow created Kibo or something.
>>
>> Yes!!! Chen himself created Kibo. That was integral to the objective.
>This is interesting that you should say that. You know about how Kibo got
>to be what his is, don't you? We call him "He who greps" because he could
>locate anywhere on the net any reference to his name, or anything that
>even sounded like his name. Here you are in rec.sports.mountain-climbing
>or whatever, talking about a minor peak of Kilimanjaro, and you get a
>followup from Kibo. I know that some kibologists now grep, but nobady has
>anything as advanced as Kibo has.
>> >Everyone figured he was
>> >part of Bell's plan to increase profit
>>
>> But that's the cover... if you dig really deep, you'll *think* you've
>> uncovered the agenda that they work with phone outfits like British Telecom
>> and Sandia (AT&T's arm). But in reality, that's just to appease the
>> curious. Like I said, they create a culture, recruit wanna-bes, and get them
>> to infiltrate conspiratorial newsgroups and flood them with confrontational
>> mindfucks, basic psychological warfare. If the numbers multiply as
>> expected, it's more efficient than employing hundreds of people to do this
>> because it's cheaper and there's less leakage risk. Basically, they create
>> a group of people that wage psychological warfare on conspiracy theorists
>> and enjoy doing it, and they don't have to be briefed on *why* they're doing
>> it. Pretty clever!
>What about other members that troll the star trek and poetry groups? What
>about those that cruise in alt.fan.warlord, or just stick in their own
>vanity groups? There's no way to control what a trolling culture could
>do. Sure, ridiculing believers is a lot of fun, but mostly because I
>believe that believers don't have a grasp on the truth I hold. It's as
>simple as that. I knew about alt.conspiracy before I knew about the ark.
>> >Nah, whoever told you that is missing the point or something. The system
>> >is very dynamic, in a Darwinian fashion. We troll each other, you see.
>> >Anyone who can't keep up, well, nobody reads their trolls, or they head
>> >back to the startrek groups for more training in trolling.
>>
>> But you've fallen for the bait. YOU are the one that's been meta-trolled
>> for months and you haven't realized how you've beautifully executed their
>> agenda. What better way to trash a conspiratorial newsgroup than to recruit
>> willful lackeys to do it?
>You have this premise that's unspoken, that someone feels threatened by
>discussion of conspiracies. No evidence, and no reason. You're also
>saying two things, first that we were recruited, then you say that we are
>just influenced by a created culture that encourages trolling.
>> Even if you think there are no UFOs, there's
>> still a lot of juicy info in the group about the CIA and NSA's past dirty
>> deeds, rumored secret aircraft, and so on. It's fertile ground for
>> experimentation with these mass population control techniques (more like
>> influence, really) to spawn a chaotic form of a disinformation and
>> psychological warfare campaign.
>When I trolled you, I gave this idea some thought and decided that USENET
>is not rigid enough for control or even predictable influence. Push the
>net one way, it pushes back even stronger. USENET is never in
>equilibrium. It's always just a tad out of whack. Neu-neutopians are
>just a sort of eddy, but no more influential than rec.org.mensa.
>> The Usenet medium is being taken VERY
>> seriously in intelligence for all sorts of purposes. This is just one.
>> It's also integral in intentional disinformation toward foreign operatives
>> monitoring various political newsgroups, for instance.
>That's absurd. Back it up.
>> >I'm not familiar with this pseudocorporate bent you mention. Please
>> >elaborate.
>>
>> The pseudocorporate bent is the whole phone outfit cover, turning a culture
>> into profits from phone usage. Like I said, when they're pressed, they'll
>> "confide" in you that it's for the phone outfits, like Richardson and Earl
>> and McGowan. But that's BS.
>Wheels within wheels, eh? Why do you suppose I like making fun of
>conspiracies, Brian? Because you come up with stuff like this. You think
>you know the truth, and anyone who tells you otherwise is part of the
>conspiracy. Well, that's a lovely paradigm, knowing the absolute truth
>and all, and it feed your ego because you believe, you *truly* believe
>that you know something that others don't or can't. But nothing can
>contradict a cosnpiracy, because of what we astronomers call a selection
>effect in your data. Point being, you should be looking for info to
>disprove your belief, if you're half the critical thinking you'd like me
>to believe.
>> Sandia does plenty of DoE work outside of AT&T
>> contracting, and McGowan has never posted from a BT address to prove his
>> association with them.
>Does BT get USENET? Demon is a very popular ISP in the UK.
>> >They created *Kibo?*
>>
>> YES. Chen himself is 100% responsible for Kibo... and for Density4. Chen
>> types like an illiterate on purpose... obviously he is too intelligent to
>> type so incompetently with such horrific spelling. Density4 and Chen are
>> one and the same, but it's more like Density4 is the "real" person.
>So, D4 is more like the actor than the Chen persona? Hrmm. I heard that
>D4 has trolled you before. How about Frager? Is Chen he?
>> Chen is
>> the mindfuck character while Density4 plays more of a conditioning and
>> molding role. Dean Adams even knows this much because he cooperates with
>> him, and vice versa. Notice how Chen props up Dean when he's getting
>> battered?
>Dean doesn't get battered. I haven't seen the day. Perhaps this is just
>our perspective differences. D4 lately tends to say in his own little
>Reject Science Dogma myth. Is that what Chen is?
>> Dean likely works with the National Security Agency, but who knows
>> what for. When he's asked, he doesn't deny it, and he even admits being in
>> intelligence.
>He's a very personal person. Would an NSA operative write a Dave
>Letterman episode guide?
>> Maybe it's to debunk UFOs, but that seems a little too
>> obvious. He says it's to "keep facts straight", which is a laugh, since
>> usually he just distorts things with ridicule.
>Hrmm. Let he who is without lies cast the first flame.
>> Even Chen doesn't seem to
>> know exactly what he's about, but they seem to have reached a sort of mutual
>> tolerance and agreement to prop each other up when necessary. There's
>> probably more to their bizarre relationship, though.
>Oh Zeus, I'm having serious Steven Boursey/Doctress Neutopia flashbacks
>now.
>> Dean found out that Chen and Density4 were the same person two years ago,
>> apparently, and he was a little annoyed at wasting his time ridiculing D4
>> like he used to. But, even though Dean's probably NSA, his bark is worse
>> than his bite. He seems pretty young and without much clout.
>He's got clout in the group, which is what is relevant. I just don't
>think the NSA would waste their time with USENET. The NSA is run by
>politics, but not politicians. They just don't care. They're worried
>about PGP and encryption exporting, not UFO and JFK conspiracies.
>Speaking of JFK, has Lisa Pease been properly "handled" by the conspiracy
>I seem to be part of?
>> I think he is
>> involved with satellites. If the subject of satellites comes up, Dean
>> exhibits enormous technical knowledge and familiarity that a layman simply
>> cannot have -- knowledge beyond his aviation hobbyist knowledge.
>The NSA contracts sattelites, and all thee tech they use. So maybe you
>need TRW or Hughes Spacecraft or something to explain Dean, if he is with
>the NSA. OTOH, he has a beyond hobbyist knowledge of Late Night, but that
>doesn't make him a stagehand in Hollywood.
>> >Whoever gives you this obviously
>> >false information is trolling you still.
>>
>> But this information is not from email or the newsgroup. It's from somebody
>> I found myself that knows WAY too many specifics about them and their
>> agenda. In fact, I've got some FOIAs pending with the DoE, Sandia
>> specifically, and with the Defense Intelligence Agency.
>Good luck on those. As for your source, I've trolled people in person, so
>it's not so hard on the telephone. A quick wit is all it takes.
>> >Oh, my hero. Brian, if I was being manipulated, I couldn't know,
>> >therefore I could never have a problem with it.
>>
>> But now you know.
>I know nothing except my own ignorance. --Socrates.
>> >You see, I'm copmletely aware of why I did
>> >that troll. I did it for me and for aav. I did it for fun.
>>
>> You did it because you were attracted to this newsgroup because of the
>> appeal of the whole neu-neutopian culture, their elitism and their ridicule
>> of people like me. You liked the idea, they praised you, and you went with it.
>I thought I was recruited as a wannabe. Make up your mind. Damn, I hate
>internally inconsistant conspiracies.
>> >Consider yourself assured.
>>
>> Good. I hope you haven't been Bcc'ing Chen here, because all this will do
>> is probably get the other guy fired (again).
>If he got fired, it would blow her cover, would it not? But I'm sure
>you've weaved your conspiracy around that annoying little fact.
>> >I'd like to hear much more.
>>
>> Well, the "darkest secret" of this all is the Chen/D4 dualism. There's a
>> few more details, especially on Chen/D4, but that's basically it.
>I've had a few emails with Devin before (Devin Bennett, right? :^)
>and he doesn't strike me like Andrea.
>>It's too
>> bad you can't file an FOIA with a defense contractor, because I'd sure love
>> to find out what the hell Raytheon has to do with this whole thing.
>So would the Russians.
>> And I
>> think Earl must be pretty deep into it like Chen, but behind the scenes,
>> since he doesn't post too much but he is at Sandia. Hard to say.
>Look at ths situation, critically: Earl sticks out like a sore thumb.
>You have his work number posted, etc. Everyone knows of his SAndia
>connection. So what the hell is he doing in the open? I mean, what is he
>supposed to be so obvious, so public, that he's some sort of red herring?
>I just don't buy it. This agenda has no chance, and no realistic goal.
>What about hear-today-gone-September posters that ridicule Believers, but
>these posters *aren't* in the kibological or neutopian culture? Are they
>part of it too, or a convenient side effect of the media/propaganda?
>Two choices: Earl is either so deep that his publicity is the sort of
>hidden in plain sight philosophy, or he's too public to be useful. Which
>is it?
>See, you have this conspiracy that you've uncovered, and it consists of
>phone companies that tell people, maybe they even believe, that it's to
>charge more for phone calls. You have me, who tells people, and I even
>believe, that I troll aav for fun, not profit of anyone. USENET is my
>hobby, I tell everyone.
>How is it that anyone can know better? I don't wake up in the morning and
>think about trolling UFO groups, I think about reading USENET. Phone
>companies think about how to make money. Are you telling me that there
>are a group of people that wake up and think of ways to draw people into a
>web so twisted that Charlotte herself would get lost on?
>Maybe the conspiracy is on you. Maybe your Denver friend works for Dean,
>or Density, or John Hutchins, or what not. Hutchines may not be who he
>says he is, or he might be forging posts. His Seanet account generally
>takes about 10-12 hours to transmit a USENET post here, even though Seanet
>is a Seattle ISP.
>> The guy I
>> talked to doesn't know all the details about everybody's involvement and
>> roles, or at least he's not telling me it all. But I would like to find out
>> more about Raytheon.
>So he's witholding info? Well, surprise surprise. For someone with all
>the truths, he seems to be telling you what you want to hear.
>> I just think the plan was brilliant, though, the part about recruiting
>> unwitting subjects to multiply geometrically in population and carry out
>> psychological warfare campaigns without even having to be briefed on why
>> they're doing it. As D4 says, they're pretty clever, those psyop bastards.
>It was you that said "These disinformationalists are pure geniuses, no
>question." (Okay, I'm paraphrasing) You can't plan something like "the
>plan." Recruiting? Ha. How is it, precisely, that you "know" I was
>asked to troll you?
>--
>"If an atomic-powered taxi hit an atomic-powered streetcar at Forty-second
>and Lex, it could completely destroy the whole Grand Central area."
> John W. Campbell Jr.
>Louis Nick III sn...@u.washington.edu alt.religion.louis-nick
>To: Louis Nick III <sn...@u.washington.edu>
>From: bdze...@students.wisc.edu (Brian Zeiler)
>Subject: Re: Neu-neutopian mindcontrol
>>Sounds like Bruce.
>His name's not Bruce, but I don't know any Bruce.
>>Oh, I'm expendable? What are they going to do, take my ego?
>Expendable in the sense that you're not inside the project. You do what
>they ask, you carry out the broader agenda without being asked, you enjoy
>doing it, and if you suddenly start acting like an idiot, they'll begin to
>go after you, just like Chen did with McGowan for awhile.
>>Now you're getting really presumptuous. I wasn't aware that James worked
>>for BT. Anyone can get a demon account.
>James himself told me this, but I think he was bullshitting because, like I
>said, if you start asking questions, they'll pretend they're telling you
>the truth by giving you the song and dance about long distance and the
>mind/machine convergence blah blah blah.
>>This is interesting that you should say that. You know about how Kibo got
>>to be what his is, don't you?
>I don't even know anything about Kibo, except that Chen is entirely behind
>the thing from day one. This is not just from the Denver guy, either.
>>What about other members that troll the star trek and poetry groups?
>They're not members... they're people like you.
>>Sure, ridiculing believers is a lot of fun, but mostly because I
>>believe that believers don't have a grasp on the truth I hold. It's as
>>simple as that.
>Right, and that's the self-selection aspect that makes the program so
>efficient. You are enamored of their silly culture and seek to adopt it,
>and the culture itself is self-selective for people that are clever and
>witty. The conspiratorial newsgroups feature ridicule of conspiracy
>proponents from the members themselves, and they aim to get the groupies
>to multiply in numbers and continue the ridicule. Of course you find this
>fun; that's why you do it. That's why they like you doing it.
>>You have this premise that's unspoken, that someone feels threatened by
>>discussion of conspiracies.
>It's not a "premise". It's a fact. Even if we pretend there are no
>conspiracies that the government wishes to cloak, it's a known fact that
>the US government has spied on UFO researchers (FBI, 1970s) and willfully
>wages psychological warfare on them (Bennewitz/Doty, etc).
>>You're also
>>saying two things, first that we were recruited, then you say that we are
>>just influenced by a created culture that encourages trolling.
>I'm using the word "recruit" to mean your second part above, the created
>culture that indirectly "recruits" through self-selection. Same thing.
>It's just easier to say "recruit", although the word is not accurate since
>I guess it does imply active recruitment, which it does not. It's
>self-selected passive recruitment through emulation of the culture and
>the execution of the agenda. But hey, you don't have to execute the agenda.
>If you want to be part of the culture and screw around on the star trek
>group, you're more than welcome. It's just that that the real members of
>neu-neutopia *want* you to ridicule conspiracy theorists, since it's part
>of the agenda, which is why the *REAL* members spend so much time there!
>>> The Usenet medium is being taken VERY
>>> seriously in intelligence for all sorts of purposes. This is just one.
>>> It's also integral in intentional disinformation toward foreign operatives
>>> monitoring various political newsgroups, for instance.
>>
>>That's absurd. Back it up.
>Absurd?! Somebody just posted something the other day on that, some DoD
>study that was released. It discussed the monitoring of Usenet to gather
>intelligence, although the propagation of disinformation would be just as
>easy. I'm not talking at all about UFOs. I'm talking about foreign
>politics. Don't you think the Russians probably monitor rec.aviation.military
>and alt.conspiracy.area51 to see whether somebody will describe a new
>aircraft they saw outside Area 51? If I were a Russian spy, I sure as hell
>would. The valid information would be extremely rare, but well worth the
>monitoring.
>>Why do you suppose I like making fun of
>>conspiracies, Brian? Because you come up with stuff like this.
>You don't know what you're talking about at all, and it seems you're a little
>bitter about the truth about your little friend Chen. The whole mind/machine
>thing is BS, and so is the long distance company nonsense. Besides, people
>get on the Internet through local access with the Baby Bells anyway.
> You think
>>you know the truth, and anyone who tells you otherwise is part of the
>>conspiracy.
>Believe me, I have no doubt that you are *not* part of any conspiracy at all.
> Well, that's a lovely paradigm, knowing the absolute truth
>>and all, and it feed your ego because you believe, you *truly* believe
>>that you know something that others don't or can't.
>What aren't you understanding here? This person obviously knew what he was
>talking about and gave very specific, detailed, somewhat verifiable
>information about the program. Hell, it's not even that secret anymore.
>The real players in the program are Chen/D4, Earl Dombroski, Thomas
>Richardson, and Simon Rees. Even McGowan was never truly a direct part of
>it.
>>So, D4 is more like the actor than the Chen persona? Hrmm. I heard that
>>D4 has trolled you before. How about Frager? Is Chen he?
>D4 has never trolled me before, although he was quite a provocateur one
>particular time. Frager is just Frager.
>>Dean doesn't get battered. I haven't seen the day. Perhaps this is just
>>our perspective differences.
>Obviously, since Dean has deliberately lied countless times. When he
>doesn't argue back, it means he's defeated, like when he called the Edwards
>AFB audio transcript a hoax even though everybody and his dog knows
>otherwise. In fact, there was nothing compelling in the transcript anyway.
>>D4 lately tends to say in his own little
>>Reject Science Dogma myth. Is that what Chen is?
>I don't understand what you're asking, but D4 is just an act, although the
>style is more of the "real" Chen. He molds the mood, tempo, and flow of
>the group by playing the anti-science, anti-everything, UFOs-are-deeper-than-
>you-think kind of wacko.
>>> Dean likely works with the National Security Agency, but who knows
>>> what for. When he's asked, he doesn't deny it, and he even admits being in
>>> intelligence.
>>
>>He's a very personal person. Would an NSA operative write a Dave
>>Letterman episode guide?
>Well, apparently. I've emailed with him probably over a hundred times about
>many things.
>>They're worried
>>about PGP and encryption exporting, not UFO and JFK conspiracies.
>They're far more diversified than not (for lack of a better adjective).
>Remember last year when the NSA was caught bugging the Japanese telephones
>during the auto parts trade talks with the US? The NSA takes orders from
>the President, and I think from Deutch.
>>Speaking of JFK, has Lisa Pease been properly "handled" by the conspiracy
>>I seem to be part of?
>You're *not* part of any conspiracy. I wouldn't even call this neu-neutopia
>a "conspiracy". It's just a project, and you helped it grow successful. As
>for Lisa, Chen does ridicule her at times, but Milwaukee's very own McAdams
>seems to be the main opponent of hers.
>>The NSA contracts sattelites, and all thee tech they use. So maybe you
>>need TRW or Hughes Spacecraft or something to explain Dean, if he is with
>>the NSA.
>Yes, this is quite possible, if not likely.
>>Good luck on those. As for your source, I've trolled people in person, so
>>it's not so hard on the telephone. A quick wit is all it takes.
>There is more to it that almost verifies what he says, but obviously
>verification is impossible. But if he's trolling me, it's a totally
>pointless troll. And besides, I was the one that found him out of the
>blue anyway. The pointlessness and lack of solicitation is very inconsistent
>with a troll.
>>> You did it because you were attracted to this newsgroup because of the
>>> appeal of the whole neu-neutopian culture, their elitism and their ridicule
>>> of people like me. You liked the idea, they praised you, and you went with it.
>>
>>I thought I was recruited as a wannabe. Make up your mind. Damn, I hate
>>internally inconsistant conspiracies.
>No, there's no internal inconsistency anywhere. Like I said, you *are* a
>wannabe neu-neutopian, which is fine if that's fun for you. But the
>"recruitment" is indirect and self-selective. If you begin to emulate the
>culture, and they think you have potential, they'll flatter you and "coach"
>you by emailing with you and showing you the art of the troll. Then they'll
>give you a target, like Richardson did for you, apparently.
>>If he got fired, it would blow her cover, would it not?
>Chen doesn't even have a cover anymore worth much. If the Denver guy got
>fired, for one thing, I doubt I could even find that out or even track him
>down anymore.
>>But I'm sure
>>you've weaved your conspiracy around that annoying little fact.
>There's no "conspiracy", and I have no idea why you still call this a
>"conspiracy". It's just a program.
>>I've had a few emails with Devin before (Devin Bennett, right? :^)
>>and he doesn't strike me like Andrea.
>Like I said, Chen is more of the constructed character with the fake shitty
>grammar and spelling; D4's writing style is the real one. But they are
>indeed the same person.
>>Look at ths situation, critically: Earl sticks out like a sore thumb.
>>You have his work number posted, etc. Everyone knows of his SAndia
>>connection. So what the hell is he doing in the open? I mean, what is he
>>supposed to be so obvious, so public, that he's some sort of red herring?
>Why hide? Is Earl fighting off suspicious questions? Nobody cares, and
>certainly Earl doesn't. Besides, the skeptics that are the *REAL* useful
>idiots are the ones that do all the explaining anyway, so it doesn't even
>matter. So Earl works at Sandia. BFD as far as Joe Skeptic cares.
>>I just don't buy it. This agenda has no chance, and no realistic goal.
>It DOES have a chance, and IT DID achieve its goal. You're living proof
>of that.
>>What about hear-today-gone-September posters that ridicule Believers, but
>>these posters *aren't* in the kibological or neutopian culture? Are they
>>part of it too, or a convenient side effect of the media/propaganda?
>They're neither... they're just scientific UFO skeptics. Unfortunately,
>plenty of those exist in nature.
>>Two choices: Earl is either so deep that his publicity is the sort of
>>hidden in plain sight philosophy, or he's too public to be useful. Which
>>is it?
>I'm not sure what you mean by "plain sight philosophy", but he works behind
>the scenes IN the program, not as an executor of it nearly as often. So when
>he pops in the group to screw around and have fun with Chen, who really
>cares? Who notices? Yes, we now know that he's at Sandia, but again, what
>does that mean other than that he works at Sandia? Nothing. No reason to
>hide anything.
>>See, you have this conspiracy that you've uncovered
>See, there you go again. It's not a "conspiracy" that I've "uncovered".
>It's just a classified program that was leaked. Happens all the time, all
>over the world, in all major countries. BFD. If you weren't suckered in by
>their efforts, you wouldn't be protesting so much, even though there is
>clearly nothing extraordinary about it. It's just a clever program, and
>nothing more. No "conspiracy".
>>and it consists of
>>phone companies that tell people, maybe they even believe, that it's to
>>charge more for phone calls. You have me, who tells people, and I even
>>believe, that I troll aav for fun, not profit of anyone. USENET is my
>>hobby, I tell everyone.
>No, you have it all wrong. The phone company thing is pure crap. Like I
>explained, anybody who watches the serious players in aav will notice a
>certain level of coordination and all-day posting that implies some
>organizational intent (and lack of a day job). So, they need a cover
>story if anybody asks, and the cover is that they're part of some phone
>company outfit to jack up phone usage. The person asking will feel
>satisfied that he has cracked a secret affiliation, when in reality,
>it's nonsense.
>The real agenda is to create a culture that self-selects people like you
>that love to intimidate conspiracy proponents and wage psychological warfare
>on them, all while the numbers multiply naturally to create a culture of
>constant intimidation of the proponents. This serves to irretrievably
>destroy the newsgroups by having it teem with those people, and those people
>like you who carry out the campaign don't know whose purpose was really
>served by it, and this dramatically decreases the internal scope of the
>operation which minimizes the chance of leakage (although there has been
>leakage, obviously). The fact that this program takes place on public
>communications on a global scale exposes it to a variety of risks, and
>by minimizing the number of direct participants and maximizing the number
>of self-selected recruits like yourself, security is improved.
>>Are you telling me that there
>>are a group of people that wake up and think of ways to draw people into a
>>web so twisted that Charlotte herself would get lost on?
>Yes, this is how it works. Nice analogy with Charlotte, too.
>>Maybe the conspiracy is on you. Maybe your Denver friend works for Dean,
>>or Density, or John Hutchins, or what not.
>No, because that would be utterly pointless. Besides, I'm not even supposed
>to tell you this. And I found *him*, which is further inconsistent with a
>troll.
>>Hutchines may not be who he
>>says he is, or he might be forging posts. His Seanet account generally
>>takes about 10-12 hours to transmit a USENET post here, even though Seanet
>>is a Seattle ISP.
>I am 100% certain that Hutchins is a total idiot skeptic. If he was
>anything more covert, I doubt he would be so pathetically stupid as to
>say he's read unspecified UFO books in the 1950s and is thus an expert.
>>> The guy I
>>> talked to doesn't know all the details about everybody's involvement and
>>> roles, or at least he's not telling me it all. But I would like to find out
>>> more about Raytheon.
>>
>>So he's witholding info? Well, surprise surprise. For someone with all
>>the truths, he seems to be telling you what you want to hear.
>Again, that would be pointless. And he's also managed to provide some
>information that is both consistent with information from other sources
>I've found and that is also externally verifiable.
>>You can't plan something like "the
>>plan." Recruiting? Ha. How is it, precisely, that you "know" I was
>>asked to troll you?
>I already knew you were asked, and you just told me it was Richardson that
>mentioned the idea to you. Besides, it served a very useful purpose.
>Brian
>Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 22:19:55 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Louis Nick III <sn...@u.washington.edu>
>Reply-To: Louis Nick III <sn...@u.washington.edu>
>To: Brian Zeiler <bdze...@students.wisc.edu>
>Subject: Re: Neu-neutopian mindcontrol
>On Sat, 20 Apr 1996, Brian Zeiler wrote:
>> >Sounds like Bruce.
>>
>> His name's not Bruce, but I don't know any Bruce.
>Sorry, just fishing.
>> >Oh, I'm expendable? What are they going to do, take my ego?
>>
>> Expendable in the sense that you're not inside the project. You do what
>> they ask, you carry out the broader agenda without being asked, you enjoy
>> doing it, and if you suddenly start acting like an idiot, they'll begin to
>> go after you, just like Chen did with McGowan for awhile.
>This rests on your basic premise that someone asked me to troll you s six
>months ago. You're saying that this progrom created Kibo et al. to create
>a trolling culture. Why did anyone have to ask me? It might be something
>I was inspired to do.
>> >Now you're getting really presumptuous. I wasn't aware that James worked
>> >for BT. Anyone can get a demon account.
>>
>> James himself told me this, but I think he was bullshitting because, like I
>> said, if you start asking questions, they'll pretend they're telling you the
>> truth by giving you the song and dance about long distance and the
>> mind/machine convergence blah blah blah.
>You switch from James to "they" in there. Interesting. Anyway, you seem
>to always know when someone's lying. Doesn't that strike you as a tad bit
>impossible when you think about it critically?
>> >This is interesting that you should say that. You know about how Kibo got
>> >to be what his is, don't you?
>>
>> I don't even know anything about Kibo, except that Chen is entirely behind
>> the thing from day one. This is not just from the Denver guy, either.
>Oh really? The whole Kibo thing is the least believable part of your
>emails. Give it some support. What, did NEXIS turn anything up? (Some
>Boston stuff should turn up with Kibo, he had about 15 minutes of fame
>a couple of years ago.)
>> >Sure, ridiculing believers is a lot of fun, but mostly because I
>> >believe that believers don't have a grasp on the truth I hold. It's as
>> >simple as that.
>>
>> Right, and that's the self-selection aspect that makes the program so
>> efficient.
>How can it be efficient if so few trollers hit the conspiracy groups? And
>if it's so efficient, why would Chen, D4, Earl, Dean, etc. bother to do
>posting themselves? Guidance?
>> You are enamored of their silly culture and seek to adopt it,
>> and the culture itself is self-selective for people that are clever and
>> witty.
>It's not a silly culture, it's a culture to keep things from getting too
>serious. That's why you deserve to be trolled so much, it's because you
>take it far too seriously all the time. It's just UFOs. If it's aliens,
>government cover-upup, whatever. Big Deal. SEP.
>> The conspiratorial newsgroups feature ridicule of conspiracy
>> proponents from the members themselves, and they aim to get the groupies to
>> multiply in numbers and continue the ridicule. Of course you find this fun;
>> that's why you do it. That's why they like you doing it.
>That's one way of looking at it. Another way would be to say that I do
>what I like, and they don't mind at all. You can't assume any causual
>relationship, or if there is, you can't assume which is the cause and
>which the effect.
>> >You have this premise that's unspoken, that someone feels threatened by
>> >discussion of conspiracies.
>>
>> It's not a "premise". It's a fact. Even if we pretend there are no
>> conspiracies that the government wishes to cloak, it's a known fact that the
>> US government has spied on UFO researchers (FBI, 1970s) and willfully wages
>> psychological warfare on them (Bennewitz/Doty, etc).
>They look in to things to see if a threat exists. Monitoring a newsfroup
>about taxes, for example, is not in response to the threat of a tax
>revolt, but to see if such a threat might come into being.
>> It's just easier to say "recruit", although the word is not accurate since I
>> guess it does imply active recruitment, which it does not.
>Okay, I get the picture.
>> It's just that that the real members of
>> neu-neutopia *want* you to ridicule conspiracy theorists, since it's part of
>> the agenda, which is why the *REAL* members spend so much time there!
>Okay, that answers my previous question.
>> Absurd?! Somebody just posted something the other day on that, some DoD
>> study that was released. It discussed the monitoring of Usenet to gather
>> intelligence, although the propagation of disinformation would be just as
>> easy. I'm not talking at all about UFOs. I'm talking about foreign
>> politics. Don't you think the Russians probably monitor
>> rec.aviation.military and alt.conspiracy.area51 to see whether somebody will
>> describe a new aircraft they saw outside Area 51? If I were a Russian spy,
>> I sure as hell would. The valid information would be extremely rare, but
>> well worth the monitoring.
>You wouldn't get paid much. You'd hang out on USENET and then tell your
>GRU superiors that there's no intelligent life there, can I be reassigned?
>> >Why do you suppose I like making fun of
>> >conspiracies, Brian? Because you come up with stuff like this.
>>
>> You don't know what you're talking about at all, and it seems you're a
>> little bitter about the truth about your little friend Chen.
>Bitter? Don't kid yourself. I don't know any more about Chen than I did
>before you wrote me about this. Which is still very little, I admit, but
>big deal. Chen is just a person on the net to me. A little odd, perhaps,
>based on her postings, or very imaginative, or whatever. I don't buy that
>this person is in a conspiracy. Not because I'm naive, but because I
>think that her posts are satirical. That's why she is good at trolling.
>She doesn't take anyone, especially herself, seriously.
>Speaking of which, why can't your source work out more about Chen, who
>"he" is, etc.?
>> The whole
>> mind/machine thing is BS, and so is the long distance company nonsense.
>> Besides, people get on the Internet through local access with the Baby Bells
>> anyway.
>Yeah, and most communication goes though dedicated lines anyway. That
>sort of explanation only existed in the days of old UUNet. Do a web
>search on Lee Bumgarner. The d00d is a kibologist, but he keeps The Great
>Renaming FAQ, the story about the birth of USENET. Interesting factoids.
>> You think
>> >you know the truth, and anyone who tells you otherwise is part of the
>> >conspiracy.
>>
>> Believe me, I have no doubt that you are *not* part of any conspiracy at all.
>If only you knew...
>> Well, that's a lovely paradigm, knowing the absolute truth
>> >and all, and it feed your ego because you believe, you *truly* believe
>> >that you know something that others don't or can't.
>>
>> What aren't you understanding here? This person obviously knew what he was
>> talking about and gave very specific, detailed, somewhat verifiable
>> information about the program. Hell, it's not even that secret anymore.
>Somewhat verifiable? Like what? That Earl works at Sandia? You can't
>verify your Chen = D4, nor can you verify wherever Chen works, nor Dean's
>employer, nor who asked me.
>> The real players in the program are Chen/D4, Earl Dombroski, Thomas
>> Richardson, and Simon Rees. Even McGowan was never truly a direct part of it.
>If only they knew you know. Shit, I'm tempted to forward this post right
>over to them. They all need a good laugh.
>> >Dean doesn't get battered. I haven't seen the day. Perhaps this is just
>> >our perspective differences.
>>
>> Obviously, since Dean has deliberately lied countless times. When he
>> doesn't argue back, it means he's defeated, like when he called the Edwards
>> AFB audio transcript a hoax even though everybody and his dog knows
>> otherwise. In fact, there was nothing compelling in the transcript anyway.
>If the same were true about you, then you've been destroyed in arguements
>before. Where was your response to my Drake Eq. post? I guess that means
>you were defeated.
>> >D4 lately tends to say in his own little
>> >Reject Science Dogma myth. Is that what Chen is?
>>
>> I don't understand what you're asking, but D4 is just an act, although the
>> style is more of the "real" Chen. He molds the mood, tempo, and flow of the
>> group by playing the anti-science, anti-everything,
>> UFOs-are-deeper-than-you-think kind of wacko.
>What I'm saying is: You say the actor is more like D4 than the created
>persona Chen, right? So, is the actor supportive of the Science is a
>Dogma, down with science reasoning that d4 comes up with? That belief is
>not wacko, if thought about critically. It's just a slightly more
>psychological rather than physical interpretation of UFOs.
>> >He's a very personal person. Would an NSA operative write a Dave
>> >Letterman episode guide?
>>
>> Well, apparently. I've emailed with him probably over a hundred times about
>> many things.
>And you still have no better indication of his employer than you did day
>one. He never told me when I first came around. Now I don't ask anymore.
>> >They're worried
>> >about PGP and encryption exporting, not UFO and JFK conspiracies.
>>
>> They're far more diversified than not (for lack of a better adjective).
>> Remember last year when the NSA was caught bugging the Japanese telephones
>> during the auto parts trade talks with the US? The NSA takes orders from
>> the President, and I think from Deutch.
>Who is Deutch? NSA is meant to deal with anything that leaves the
>country. It's just plain not their job to deal with internal security.
>That's FBI. Thus, it's the FBI that reads this mail (hi guys) and not the
>NSA, unless it gets to you via a server in the uk or something. In that
>case, (hi guys).
>> >Speaking of JFK, has Lisa Pease been properly "handled" by the conspiracy
>> >I seem to be part of?
>>
>> You're *not* part of any conspiracy. I wouldn't even call this neu-neutopia
>> a "conspiracy". It's just a project, and you helped it grow successful. As
>> for Lisa, Chen does ridicule her at times, but Milwaukee's very own McAdams
>> seems to be the main opponent of hers.
>No, it's a conspiracy, if it causes people to lie about their agenda, or
>existance of one.
>> >The NSA contracts sattelites, and all thee tech they use. So maybe you
>> >need TRW or Hughes Spacecraft or something to explain Dean, if he is with
>> >the NSA.
>>
>> Yes, this is quite possible, if not likely.
>Well, Hughes is a better company, so I vote Hughes. There's no way you'll
>ever connect Dean with any employer, so the truth is what you select, and
>a flipped coin is just as valid as any connection you make.
>> >Good luck on those. As for your source, I've trolled people in person, so
>> >it's not so hard on the telephone. A quick wit is all it takes.
>>
>> There is more to it that almost verifies what he says, but obviously
>> verification is impossible. But if he's trolling me, it's a totally
>> pointless troll. And besides, I was the one that found him out of the blue
>> anyway. The pointlessness and lack of solicitation is very inconsistent
>> with a troll.
>You'd be surprise. I have a lot more experience with trolls and I can
>tell you that they are all pointless (except to prevent someone from
>taking something too seriously) and many are unsolicited. Just post to
>alt.sysadmin.recovery some newbie question about cleaning out your
>shell account, and lots of sysadmins will tell you that rm -r * is the way
>to go.
>It really isn't, and I'm not responsible if you try it.
>> >I thought I was recruited as a wannabe. Make up your mind. Damn, I hate
>> >internally inconsistant conspiracies.
>>
>> No, there's no internal inconsistency anywhere.
>Of course not. That's a defining factor of a conspiracy.
>> Like I said, you *are* a
>> wannabe neu-neutopian, which is fine if that's fun for you.
>I'm no such thing. I'm an Astronomer gonna-be, and a talented troller. I
>could care less about, say, alt.society.neutopia. Today was the first
>time in my 3 years on the net that I have replied to Doctress Neutopia,
>and that's only because I *plonk*ed her in the ark, and she was
>crossposted to aav (by Andrea Chen, no less).
>> But the
>> "recruitment" is indirect and self-selective. If you begin to emulate the
>> culture, and they think you have potential, they'll flatter you and "coach"
>> you by emailing with you and showing you the art of the troll. Then they'll
>> give you a target, like Richardson did for you, apparently.
>Apparently, eh? Nobody shows anyone how to troll. It's something you
>learn. Lesson one: never ask, or you will be trolled. You expereince,
>and if you express an interest in trolling, and you pull off a bad troll,
>people say so. If you hook a good one, they compliment you. If you hook
>a startrekker, BFD. You're guessing about how one gets to be in this
>culture. Just admit it to yourself, you don't have to admit it to me.
>> >If he got fired, it would blow her cover, would it not?
>>
>> Chen doesn't even have a cover anymore worth much. If the Denver guy got
>> fired, for one thing, I doubt I could even find that out or even track him
>> down anymore.
>Just remember that when he finally does go silent (I don't expect you
>d00dz will be hanging out together anytime soon), it doesn't mean he was
>fired, vanished, "offed" or anything else. Keep this in mind when it
>happens.
>> >But I'm sure
>> >you've weaved your conspiracy around that annoying little fact.
>>
>> There's no "conspiracy", and I have no idea why you still call this a
>> "conspiracy". It's just a program.
>Brian, when you say that there's no conspiracy at the top of an email
>reply, do not expect me to have changed my understanding later on in the
>same email. I have to wait to receive the email. No doubt I mention
>conspiracies later on in the same email you just replied to...
>> >I've had a few emails with Devin before (Devin Bennett, right? :^)
>> >and he doesn't strike me like Andrea.
>>
>> Like I said, Chen is more of the constructed character with the fake shitty
>> grammar and spelling; D4's writing style is the real one. But they are
>> indeed the same person.
>Proof. Evidence. Text. Anything?
>> >Look at ths situation, critically: Earl sticks out like a sore thumb.
>> >You have his work number posted, etc. Everyone knows of his SAndia
>> >connection. So what the hell is he doing in the open? I mean, what is he
>> >supposed to be so obvious, so public, that he's some sort of red herring?
>>
>> Why hide? Is Earl fighting off suspicious questions? Nobody cares, and
>> certainly Earl doesn't. Besides, the skeptics that are the *REAL* useful
>> idiots are the ones that do all the explaining anyway, so it doesn't even
>> matter. So Earl works at Sandia. BFD as far as Joe Skeptic cares.
>Believers care. Frager cares. You care.
>> >I just don't buy it. This agenda has no chance, and no realistic goal.
>>
>> It DOES have a chance, and IT DID achieve its goal. You're living proof of
>> that.
>To discredit Believers? Believers do that themselves. You sound like a
>sick man, sometimes. You just fail to make sense, grasping at straws
>sometimes. It's just the way I see it. Believers will believe you,
>non-believers will not. You can't change these people. I just can't
>beleive what you say, because it is full of inconsistantcy, illogic, and
>occasional ignorance. But thinking critically, I realize that you
>may just believe what you say. Furthermore, you can't change what I think
>about Chen, Dean, etc. by telling me this story.
>> >What about hear-today-gone-September posters that ridicule Believers, but
>> >these posters *aren't* in the kibological or neutopian culture? Are they
>> >part of it too, or a convenient side effect of the media/propaganda?
>>
>> They're neither... they're just scientific UFO skeptics. Unfortunately,
>> plenty of those exist in nature.
>And why not? Why is that unfortunate? Consider, just for a brief moment,
>the possibility that you are wrong.
>> >Two choices: Earl is either so deep that his publicity is the sort of
>> >hidden in plain sight philosophy, or he's too public to be useful. Which
>> >is it?
>>
>> I'm not sure what you mean by "plain sight philosophy", but he works behind
>> the scenes IN the program, not as an executor of it nearly as often.
>Hidden in plain sight. Think about it. What behind the scenes work is
>there in creating a culture that is now self-perpetuating? Does he lurk
>in the ARK and make reports to his government superiors?
>> So
>> when he pops in the group to screw around and have fun with Chen, who really
>> cares? Who notices? Yes, we now know that he's at Sandia, but again, what
>> does that mean other than that he works at Sandia? Nothing. No reason to
>> hide anything.
>Sandia is a text. Take it in context, and interpret.
>> >See, you have this conspiracy that you've uncovered
>>
>> See, there you go again. It's not a "conspiracy" that I've "uncovered".
>Brian, how can I be "going again" when I haven't finished going still.
>This isn't IRC here, I can't change what I say after you type it. I know
>I already said stuff to this effect, by yada yada it's fun yada.
>> It's just a classified program that was leaked. Happens all the time, all
>> over the world, in all major countries. BFD. If you weren't suckered in by
>> their efforts, you wouldn't be protesting so much, even though there is
>> clearly nothing extraordinary about it. It's just a clever program, and
>> nothing more. No "conspiracy".
>It doesn't exist. My protests have no bearing one whether or not it
>exists. What if, and consider this just for a moment, there is no such
>program to get suckered into? Then I would "protest". See, it makes
>sense either way.
>> >and it consists of
>> >phone companies that tell people, maybe they even believe, that it's to
>> >charge more for phone calls. You have me, who tells people, and I even
>> >believe, that I troll aav for fun, not profit of anyone. USENET is my
>> >hobby, I tell everyone.
>>
>> No, you have it all wrong. The phone company thing is pure crap.
>So, phone companies don't think they are doing this to charge more money?
>> Like I
>> explained, anybody who watches the serious players in aav will notice a
>> certain level of coordination and all-day posting that implies some
>> organizational intent (and lack of a day job).
>Brian, if you want any realy correlation, start sorting you messages by
>date posted, not by order of arrival. Then you can figure out individual
>times of posts. I can do this with PINE, but not with trn. And PINE
>would take forever. Try it. Figure out when people post, not when they
>arrive.
>> So, they need a cover story
>> if anybody asks, and the cover is that they're part of some phone company
>> outfit to jack up phone usage.
>They don't have a special notice by the phone saying that "If anyone asks
>about the USENET/Telecom conspiracy, just give them this cover story."
>No, those people would believe what they say. Either because it's true,
>or because they've been convinced it's true.
>> The person asking will feel satisfied that
>> he has cracked a secret affiliation, when in reality, it's nonsense.
>Fortunately, you know better. Doesn't that sound a tad suspicious to you?
>> The real agenda is to create a culture that self-selects people like you
> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>This is getting better by the moment.
>> that love to intimidate conspiracy proponents and wage psychological warfare
>> on them, all while the numbers multiply naturally to create a culture of
>> constant intimidation of the proponents.
>Trolling has never included intimidation. Did I ever say you were under
>threat, even when you asked, during the troll? Nope.
>> This serves to irretrievably
>> destroy the newsgroups by having it teem with those people, and those people
>> like you who carry out the campaign don't know whose purpose was really
>> served by it, and this dramatically decreases the internal scope of the
>> operation which minimizes the chance of leakage (although there has been
>> leakage, obviously).
>The same thing occured when a group that called themselves
>alt.syntax.tactical invaded rec.pets.cats. Sounds like those rpc people
>were really discussing some conspiratorial stuff, like the *true*
>ingredients of "Friskies." Think I'm BSing? Do a websearch on the full
>name of a.s.t. It was a complete coup that irreparably destroyed r.p.c
>for some time. If you can't find the a.s.t FAQ/story, I'll try and locate
>a copy for you.
>> The fact that this program takes place on public
>> communications on a global scale exposes it to a variety of risks, and by
>> minimizing the number of direct participants and maximizing the number of
>> self-selected recruits like yourself, security is improved.
>Security is flawless, because if someone like you, comes up with the
>"truth" about trolling, NOBODY WILL BELIEVE YOU! Surprise, surprise, this
>is more like a conspiracy every second!
>> >Are you telling me that there
>> >are a group of people that wake up and think of ways to draw people into a
>> >web so twisted that Charlotte herself would get lost on?
>>
>> Yes, this is how it works. Nice analogy with Charlotte, too.
>Thanks. I don't buy it, though.
>> >Maybe the conspiracy is on you. Maybe your Denver friend works for Dean,
>> >or Density, or John Hutchins, or what not.
>>
>> No, because that would be utterly pointless. Besides, I'm not even
>> supposed to tell you this. And I found *him*, which is further inconsistent
>> with a troll.
>I'm curious. How? Was he a poster?
>> I am 100% certain that Hutchins is a total idiot skeptic. If he was
>> anything more covert, I doubt he would be so pathetically stupid as to say
>> he's read unspecified UFO books in the 1950s and is thus an expert.
>He never claimed expertise, and you know better than to say he did.
>> >So he's witholding info? Well, surprise surprise. For someone with all
>> >the truths, he seems to be telling you what you want to hear.
>>
>> Again, that would be pointless. And he's also managed to provide some
>> information that is both consistent with information from other sources I've
>> found and that is also externally verifiable.
>Brian, experience with critical thinking teaches me that EVERYTHING WILL
>BE CONSISTANT. I don't mean to yell, but that's a very important point.
>I know I've said it before in this post, but I need to stress that.
>Consistancy will define all paradigms. Therefore, it does not add any
>clout to the idea that your informant, John Denver, is telling the truth.
>> >You can't plan something like "the
>> >plan." Recruiting? Ha. How is it, precisely, that you "know" I was
>> >asked to troll you?
>>
>> I already knew you were asked, and you just told me it was Richardson that
>> mentioned the idea to you. Besides, it served a very useful purpose.
>I said the idea came about when I was talking with him. You naturally
>assumed that it was his idea. You're as predictable as you are gullible.
>I leave these things open for you to step into. That's why I can control
>the truth by trolling. But not for the reason you think. No, I'm doing
>it to inspect the strength of your information. So far, you're coming up
>short. As for the troll serving a useful purpose, do you really think
>you're more of a threat than, say, CUFON? Get real. Let me teach you a
>little lesson in perspective. I'll use X-Files, and not just last week's
>episode, but all of the UFO ones.
>Mulder walks in, with skeptical Scully. Abductee, whatever, is more
>comfortable discussing details with Mulder because he acts as though he
>believes abductee. (Let's leave out the perspective that abductee truly
>believes, currently, that he was abducted. It's not relevant to this
>demonstration.) Scully remains skeptical, distrustful. A typical
>episode will have Mulder and Scully arguing about the truth of the
>abduction. But let's not go there.
>Anyone who knew only of this encounter and not the show in general (that
>is, that Mulder will now debate the claims' veracities) COULD RESONABLY
>reach the conclusion that Mulder, a Government official, is serving to
>disinform the abductee, perhaps actually a USAF test subject or witness
>etc. to secret stuff.
>You are basically distrustful of the USAF's ability to tell the public
>the truth about UFOs. But you, upon encountering Mulder, would suspect
>him, not respect him. It is the behind the FBIHQ's walls scenes, their
>car talks, etc. that make Mulder and Scully into a believe and a skeptic,
>and not MIBs. The 4-12 episode is more consistant with that. The geeky
>kid saw two MIBs. Not "believed he saw", he really did see them. That is
>absolute truth to him. Not to say you are he, but you are distrustful of
>Government officials, especially the FBI to give you info on UFOs.
>Think about it. What if you didn't know about Mulder's obsession? What
>if you weren't aware of what he's seen, felt? What if you didn't know
>that Mulder is just a lowly cop, with a hell of a lot more going on
>that is above his reach and security clearance than below?
>You just have a Government official, who wants you to trust him, because
>he claims to know what you're talking about. He's just playing
>the better half of Good Cop/Bad Cop. You know he's just
>trying to break your story. You'd suspect he's more than he claims to be.
>He's FBI, why would he back you up? /He wants something/ He's part of
>the conspiracy to cover up UFOs by merit of his badge!
>But he isn't, we both know that. So why _can't_ the same be true for
>Chen, Earl, Dean, GK, James, etc.?
>--
>"If an atomic-powered taxi hit an atomic-powered streetcar at Forty-second
>and Lex, it could completely destroy the whole Grand Central area."
> John W. Campbell Jr.
>Louis Nick III sn...@u.washington.edu alt.religion.louis-nick
>To: Louis Nick III <sn...@u.washington.edu>
>From: bdze...@students.wisc.edu (Brian Zeiler)
>Subject: Re: Neu-neutopian mindcontrol
>>You're saying that this progrom created Kibo et al. to create
>>a trolling culture.
>I'm not merely *saying* Chen created Kibo. HE DID create Kibo. I understand
>that you're skeptical of everything that wasn't directly experienced by Louis
>Nick III, but it's true. How the hell do you think I found Earl at Sandia?
>Do you think I blindly said "Gee, I bet he works at Sandia", and whaddyaknow,
>he did? That's what I said on the newsgroup, but that's certainly not how I
>found it out! It was the Denver guy who told me about this. I spoke to him
>for the first time back then when I started digging up some dirt on these
>neu-neutopians. There's much, much more than this, but like the NSA, I
>simply can't reveal my "sources and methods of intelligence gathering",
>especially not to somebody like you who holds the value in low regard. I
>didn't know you would so fanatically resist this information, but I'm not
>about to tell you all the details about the external independent
>verification, either, because I did it all by talking to people outside of
>the neu-neutopian culture on Usenet.
>The point is that I obviously have some valid information, as evidenced by
>my "outting" of Earl from Sandia. And after I outted him, D4 told me that
>he thinks Sandia is spying on me and monitoring my email... hence the
>"apology", which I first did because I was worried about legal problems,
>but then Devin made it sound like they thought I "knew too much". Obviously,
>Devin was bullshitting and trying to intimidate me. I really pissed them all
>off when I did that, and that's why you should remember this when you
>quickly dismiss my information. I proved the accuracy and legitimacy when
>I found Earl.
>You think this information is just from somebody trolling me, but I've
>already explained several aspects that totally, thoroughly preclude the
>possibility of trolling. First, I found this guy, not vice versa, and I
>found him through independent sleuthing. Second, all his information checks
>out to the maximum possible extent. The entire circumstances are 100%
>inconsistent with the motive and modus operandi of a troll.
>>Why did anyone have to ask me? It might be something
>>I was inspired to do.
>But it wasn't. You were asked, apparently by Richardson. I've known for
>months that you were asked, and now it seems that it was Richardson that
>asked you.
>>You switch from James to "they" in there. Interesting.
>What's "interesting"? James isn't the only one that's dropped the line
>about the phone company nonsense.
>>Anyway, you seem
>>to always know when someone's lying. Doesn't that strike you as a tad bit
>>impossible when you think about it critically?
>No, I don't always know when someone's lying. What I do know is when I
>happen to find a valid source totally unrelated to Usenet through my own
>efforts and whose validity is VERIFIED OBJECTIVELY. If I told you any more
>information on how I verified some other aspects of his information, I would
>be revealing a few other very sensitive (boring, but sensitive) aspects that
>I can't tell you about.
>Well, here's one. Remember how my source told me that Chen worked for
>Raytheon? Well, I happened to find the employee listing from 1995, and
>guess who's listed -- none other than Devin McAndrews, aka Density4 aka
>Andrea Chen. That's the real name of Chen/D4/et.al.: Devin McAndrews.
>And he doesn't really live in San Diego, obviously. I also knew *beforehand*
>that Devin's name was McAndrews through somebody involved with The Way,
>the group Devin tried to expose as "racist", which was entirely a smear
>campaign on his behalf for some unknown (to you) reason. This proves that
>Density4 works for Raytheon -- and ALMOST proves that Density4 is really
>Chen because I already knew Chen worked for Raytheon! Well, why isn't Chen
>listed, but McAndrews is? Consistent with what my source has been telling
>me along, his comment about Chen=D4 has been externally validated to the
>maximum possible extent.
>>Oh really? The whole Kibo thing is the least believable part of your
>>emails.
>The whole Kibo thing was known before I even talked to the Denver guy. Take
>it or leave it.
>I can't tell you ALL the details because some are more sensitive than the
>part about Devin McAndrews at Raytheon. Some of it I don't WANT to tell you
>because I don't trust you completely. But if you had an ounce of common
>sense, you would see that this person is clearly not trolling me because
>his motive and modus operandi are totally inconsistent with a troll, and
>because his information is verified in MANY, many ways. The McAndrews
>aspect was just one way to verify just one tiny component of this person's
>information. If you weren't so threatened by the fact that you may have been
>a useful idiot lackey in their project, you would understand this by now.
>>Chen is just a person on the net to me. A little odd, perhaps,
>>based on her postings, or very imaginative, or whatever. I don't buy that
>>this person is in a conspiracy. Not because I'm naive, but because I
>>think that her posts are satirical.
>Right, and "satirical" posts are the #1 way to suck in intelligent, witty
>people who know how to ridicule others. People like you. BTW, you asked me
>about Lisa Pease yesterday. Today Chen ridiculed Lisa in two separate posts.
>>Speaking of which, why can't your source work out more about Chen, who
>>"he" is, etc.?
>He can and he did, and I just gave you more than I probably should have about
>him.
>>> Believe me, I have no doubt that you are *not* part of any conspiracy at all.
>>
>>If only you knew...
>Oh, please...
>>What I'm saying is: You say the actor is more like D4 than the created
>>persona Chen, right? So, is the actor supportive of the Science is a
>>Dogma, down with science reasoning that d4 comes up with?
>No. What I meant is that D4 is the "real" Devin McAndrews writing in his
>own style, but with an invented "personality". Chen is his alter ego with
>intentionally shitty writing. The real Devin's opinions are unknown to me.
>>Who is Deutch?
>Director of Central Intelligence (DCI).
>>Hidden in plain sight. Think about it. What behind the scenes work is
>>there in creating a culture that is now self-perpetuating? Does he lurk
>>in the ARK and make reports to his government superiors?
>People like Earl do other work during the day that is likely unrelated to
>this project. He probably just has a two-hour weekly meeting about it and,
>when he's bored, pops in to say hi to Chen while heavily ridiculing me to
>reinforce the goals of the program.
>>> And I found *him*, which is further inconsistent
>>> with a troll.
>>
>>I'm curious. How? Was he a poster?
>Nevermind how, but he was not a poster at all.
>To summarize: I had already known that Chen worked at Raytheon before I
>contacted him (which was part of the method by which I located him). When
>I found that there was a Raytheon listing for Devin McAndrews, whose name
>I had also known, but none for Chen, this lent strong support to Chen=D4.
>All this guy did was confirm the Raytheon employment of Chen along with
>Devin's last name, and when I found a Devin McAndrews instead of a Chen,
>I asked him if they were the same (since I had suspected it), and he said
>yes, they are the same. And he said that Devin McAndrews created Kibo for
>Raytheon as one of his first projects.
>>I said the idea came about when I was talking with him. You naturally
>>assumed that it was his idea. You're as predictable as you are gullible.
>Nice try, but we both know that the idea was entirely his.
>>But he isn't, we both know that. So why _can't_ the same be true for
>>Chen, Earl, Dean, GK, James, etc.?
>Dean is not part of this neu-neutopian drivel. As for why they can't really
>be the good guys like Mulder, well, their behavior is not consistent with
>this hypothesis.
>BTW, did you ever read about early CIA mind-control programs? One of the
>several main objectives of the programs were to create "useful idiots" that
>would carry out an agenda -- hitman, saboteur, provocateur, etc. --
>unbeknownst to himself. Sort of like Reggie Jackson in "Naked Gun",
>hypnotized to shoot the queen when the beep came on. In that regard, you
>are in precisely this type of role.
>I remind you again -- as our friend Devin McAndrews says of himself in his
>frequent self-congratulatory posts (and rightly so), "They're pretty clever,
>those psyop bastards."
>Brian
>--------------84415AE36EB--
Louis Nick III
> Andrea Chen wrote:
>
> > Oh Goddess Louis? You made this guy think I'm kibo?
>
> Heh. Actually, it was the other way around.
Wrongo. This whole "troll" gig is just so you won't have to pay up.
> See, Louis Nick III is asking you this to "settle a bet", but he's
> really trying to settle a TROLL.
Are you kidding? I was going to string you along for some time. You
really thought you had me going? You know less about trolling than I
thought. Perhaps reading your own troll would educate you.
Enjoy your 15 minutes, that's how long into your post people will have to
read before they realize how utterly skeptical and disbeleiving I was.
Have a great time!
joseph richard koleszar
>Now we have Brain boasting that he pulled some sort of
>fantastic coup by looking like an idiot.
After all, we _all_ know that _I'm_ the only one around here
who pulls a fantastic coup by looking like an idoit. It's a
step up from my _usual_ style.
Ralph -- do you have _any_ idea how much of a pain it was to cut
all that extra crap?
--
Joseph Richard "Ralph" Koleszar | jkol...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
I AM THE ANTIBOB(c)! I AM THE ANTIBOB(c)! I AM THE ANTIBOB(c)!
Archbishop of Bloomington for the Church of the Cactus
For your killfiles: /jkolesza/f:j
Chuck Jordan
>No, Chuck's a nice guy, but he's one of the "usefuls".
Its nice to be useful. :-)
Surely the intelligence community is here on a.a.v. and other
usegroups. It stands to reason.
The question really is, "Is what they are doing here LEGAL?
Some say it is not!
I tend to think it is legal ala free speech.
However, I object to the cost to us tax payers.
If only the "dirty trick" crowd would take the STAR GATE
class and get a little more of a karmic boost to clean
up their soul pollution.
Love for today, people!
Chuck
Andrea Chen
Have you ever noticed when people are trying to cover their asses
they keep going on and on? "Brain" nothing you did makes any
sense as a troll. The whole story does make sense as someone
who had their leg pulled (halfway to Cuba) and is now trying
to pretend it never happened. I mean what's the point of this
all so brilliant troll?
You're setting yourself up chump. Boasting that you convinced Louis
that you were insane. Wow! We already knew that.
-ac-
Brian Zeiler
> Wrongo. This whole "troll" gig is just so you won't have to pay up.
Heh. As I said in private email (I have no idea why you emailed me your
post), I even told a few people last week that I was trying to troll
you. We never had a bet. You had blind faith in my sincerity, enough
faith to actually ask Chen about Kibo and pretend it was for some
nonexistent bet. YOU are the one doing the hemming and hawing here.
> Enjoy your 15 minutes, that's how long into your post people will have to
> read before they realize how utterly skeptical and disbeleiving I was.
Right, except for your questions and your public attempt to verify the
Chen=Kibo garbage. And your faith in my sincerity, again, is beyond
question.
--
Brian Zeiler
Andrea Chen
>In article <4llj4v$n...@crl10.crl.com>, Andrea Chen <dben...@crl.com> wrote:
>>Now we have Brain boasting that he pulled some sort of
>>fantastic coup by looking like an idiot.
>After all, we _all_ know that _I'm_ the only one around here
>who pulls a fantastic coup by looking like an idoit.
Wait a second, I thought I was the only one.
>It's a
>step up from my _usual_ style.
Ok, you've got me beat. I'm still aspiring to that.
>Ralph -- do you have _any_ idea how much of a pain it was to cut
> all that extra crap?
Sorry, but as soon as "Brain" realizes that no one is going to
buy the story that he was trolling, I suspect he is going
to cancel the original. I had to keep a written record.
Anyway my name's not Ralph.
-James Parry-
p.s. what's even better is that Louis wrote me that right before
he got this letter from Brian saying "I trolled you", there was
this other letter going on ablut how it was so suspicious that
I didn't give a straight answer to his question of whether or
not I was kibo.
p.p.s. I say we run a vote. I am curious to see who is gullible
enough to believe that "Brain" created all that fantasy so that
he could "troll" Louis and then ended the whole thing not with
a bang or even a whimper, but a pathetic ego defending whine.
I vote that the only BZ created "troll" in the whole thing is
the claim that BZ wrote those letters as a troll.
I would ask Louis to post his "secret spoof" stuff and (if he
has it) Brians "proof" that Louis does not exist, because I
think readers outside of aav would be skeptical than anyone
be so clueless.In the context of this, Brians patronizing
"I know a secret and you don't" letters are not as unbelievable
as they seem.
Anyway I vote that Brain got trolled and trolled bad. My guess
on the top secret Colorado source is one time neu neutopian
Paul Wolfe. But whoever did it, hats off (if I wore a hat).
Geez I'd take everything off for a joke like that if Stevie
Boursy wasn't in the crowd.
Andrea Chen
>Are you kidding? I was going to string you along for some time. You
>really thought you had me going? You know less about trolling than I
>thought. Perhaps reading your own troll would educate you.
Wait a second. I think Brian may have succeeded here. You sound
as though you are half convinced that those tens of thousands
of words he wrote was him trying to troll you. No way, somebody
played him for a sucker. He blabbed it to you (and a couple
other people who he trusts more) and now because he was such
an idiot he is trying to cover.
Congrats Brian you may have convinced Louis that you didn't
really believe that BS. So technically that is a troll.
But sheesh, the one that we are all enjoying is the image
of you spending hours and hours with your "tradecraft"
and your contacts discovering all this stuff. I'm going
to be posting it to alt.conspiracy and a couple of other
places. This time I think your kook of the month award might
come through.
>Enjoy your 15 minutes, that's how long into your post people will have to
>read before they realize how utterly skeptical and disbeleiving I was.
>Have a great time!
It took me less than 5 minutes not only to see how skeptical you
were, but how convinced this guy was. Of course if he wasn't
convinced, if we believe his story then all this morally
righteous stuff he spouts about my fun and games rings hollow.
He lied. He told you repeatedly that he was not trolling. Then
he calls you a fool for thinking he's sincere. There goes
any moral high ground you might have "Brain."
You have basically said anyone who believes you is an idiot.
Which is what I've said all along.
-ac-
Andrew S. Gurk Damick
: It's just too amazing. How gullible can you be, Nick? After trolling me
: six months ago and KNOWING full well I was bound to strike back, you
: actually believe my sincerity and ask Chen to "settle a bet" (ROFLMAO)
: and admit as to whether or not "he" is Kibo. Ha! Pathetic!
We've known for a long time that Andrea Chen is actually the Kibo. You're
a truly ignorant fool, Zeiler. You see, I'm the Kibo, too, just like
Louis is the Kibo, and I happen to be the Kibo in charge of keeping the
Unauthorized Kibological ARKive.
You, however, are NOT the Kibo. You're not even A Kibo.
Wait--is this your handkerchief?
--Gurk
--
Andrew S. "Gurk" Damick - Prophet of Smerp
Smerpology will make your teeth clean and white.
"I don't believe it...I'm MULTIDIMENSIONAL!!!"
-Smerp
Telecommunications Bill
>I think we can say with delight that Brian has fallen once more.
I think I can say with dismay that I am seriously considering putting
a.a.v in my killfile, you MORONS.
Knock it off. Now.
--
--
(The above information is NOT TRUE; it is merely a harmless joke).
Earth People: I was born on Jupiter
nu...@netcom.com bmocweN lliB
Louis Nick III
>In alt.religion.kibology did Brian Zeiler a stately USENET-post decree:
>
>: It's just too amazing. How gullible can you be, Nick? After trolling me
>: six months ago and KNOWING full well I was bound to strike back, you
>: actually believe my sincerity and ask Chen to "settle a bet" (ROFLMAO)
>: and admit as to whether or not "he" is Kibo. Ha! Pathetic!
>
>We've known for a long time that Andrea Chen is actually the Kibo. You're
>a truly ignorant fool, Zeiler. You see, I'm the Kibo, too, just like
>Louis is the Kibo, and I happen to be the Kibo in charge of keeping the
>Unauthorized Kibological ARKive.
Gee, Gurk, where's that? <cue>
>You, however, are NOT the Kibo. You're not even A Kibo.
Ralph is more of a Kibo than Brian.
John and Susan Hutchins
>On Tue, 23 Apr 1996, Brian Zeiler wrote:
>Wrongo. This whole "troll" gig is just so you won't have to pay up.
>> See, Louis Nick III is asking you this to "settle a bet", but he's
>> really trying to settle a TROLL.
>Are you kidding? I was going to string you along for some time. You
>really thought you had me going? You know less about trolling than I
>thought. Perhaps reading your own troll would educate you.
>Enjoy your 15 minutes, that's how long into your post people will have to
>read before they realize how utterly skeptical and disbeleiving I was.
>Have a great time!
>--
>"If an atomic-powered taxi hit an atomic-powered streetcar at Forty-second
>and Lex, it could completely destroy the whole Grand Central area."
> John W. Campbell Jr.
>Louis Nick III sn...@u.washington.edu alt.religion.louis-nick
Lord love a duck, Louis. Brian has bitten twice in a twelvemonth!
Those certainly are some critical thought patterns he has working,
there. Damn, I wish I was as clever as he is!
Oh, well, maybe in another dimension. Hehehehehe!
John Hutchins
Alan Bostick
Everyone knows that she's really Doctress Neutopia. Steve Boursy says so.
Alan "Hey, wait a minute. Maybe that means that Kibo and the Doctress . . .
Naah! That would be TOO WEIRD!!" Bostick
--
Alan Bostick | They say in online country there is no middle way
mailto:abos...@netcom.com | You'll either be a Usenet man or a thug for the CDA
news:alt.grelb | Simon Spero (after Tom Glazer)
http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~abostick
Andrea Chen
>Louis Nick III wrote:
>> Wrongo. This whole "troll" gig is just so you won't have to pay up.
>Heh. As I said in private email (I have no idea why you emailed me your
>post), I even told a few people last week that I was trying to troll
>you.
This is fascinating. Because one of your alleged friends (not
Louis) wrote me to say that you were working on a "new lead."
I have no doubt that you can get some of your groupies to
claim that you were working on a "troll" even to rewrite
the contents of some letters.
But if you were working on a troll where is it?
All I see is that you devoted a great deal of time to further
convincing Nick that you were clueless. One of your claims
cracked him up and he decided to have fun with it. So you
managed to convince Louis that you were far enough out in
space to think that I created Kibo (when if there was
any corrosponsence in identies it would be the other way
around).
Look Brian, you're a guy who didn't know what crossposting
was not that long ago (this can be doublechecked with
Tom Richardson), you have argued for mile long space
ships floating above populated cities, the list goes
on and on.
So you managed to convince Nick that you believed one more
insane thing. So what? He plays with it, decides to tease
you and next thing we know you are announcing that you
have just created the worlds greatest troll.
Look Brian it doesn't take thousands and thousands of words
to convince someone that you are out of touch with reality.
Most people can figure that our in a paragraph.
I suppose in way you were trying to prove that there is
something that you won't believe, but actually the evidence
is against this. After I joked with Mr. Nicks query about
whether or not I was kibo, you posted this demand that
I answer yes or no. (This is what Brain does when he thinks
someone is an intelligence agent (honest), then if they
say no they are lying, if they say yes it is proof, that's
how he caught Dean Adams). Then there was that letter to Nick
saying (rougly) "look how Chen refuses to give a straight
answer."
A few minutes later Nick gets a really insulting letter saying
that you were trolling him and that he is an idiot. But the
thing is Brian if you were trolling him, you wouldn't stop
there. The hook isn't in at all, you have simply convinced
him that you think I am kibo (or kibo is me or we are both
d4 or ...) Sheesh reading your letters I'm convinced that
you believed. Most rational people would be. Especially
if they knew all the other odd things you believed in.
So where's this troll you are talking about? Inquiring minds
want to know.
>We never had a bet. You had blind faith in my sincerity, enough
>faith to actually ask Chen about Kibo and pretend it was for some
>nonexistent bet. YOU are the one doing the hemming and hawing here.
Yeah, he was cracking up at your claim and couldn't help but
want to share it. He hangs out in ark. That stands for
alt.religion.kibology I mean I could see the smile on
his face when he wrote that post. So I answered it wondering
who the hell .... Then next thing I know you've rushed in
demanding "answer yes or no" and I knew. Made my day. Though
in a way I was wrong. Louis didn't convince you that I was
kibo. Someone else did or else you convinced yourself.
Incidently Brian I've been told that if you hear voices on
LSD (sheesh I don't think you need acid to hear voices,
what I am saying?) that they are not necessarily govt
"deep throats" giving you top secret stuff through "neurophones"
or "remote transmission" even if they do say they are from
Colorado.
And as for hemming and hawing, please explain what the troll
was. I asked a couple of people in ark and so far nobody
could figure out what it is yet. In fact I'm beginning to
suspect that Louis misdefined what a troll was to you and
you believed him which is why you have been spouting that
this is the greatest troll in the history of the net ...
in which case you're being trolled.
Also when it comes to hemming and hawing how do you explain
that "answer yes or no" post. It seems you publicly committed
yourself to the belief as did your next letter to Nick.
Neither is consistent with trolling. So tell us what
happened in the time it took you to stop believing all
this and the time you sent a letter pretending like you
never did? How did the troll get blown? Would you please
publish your corrospondence with your secret informant?
I mean you're right, what you posted does turn out to be
a great troll (once again the great BZ is suckered by
Usenet spook stories with the evil Andrea in the middle
of her web.) You are kind of clueless in that you
still haven't figured out its a troll on you not Nick
(but that's why we love you). Anyway give us the surrouding
documentation. Show us how your "contact" (who you dug up
through hush hush methods) convinced you. Honest, there's
some real demand for this stuff. And also "Brain" when we
read it we won't be laughing at you, we'll be laughing
with you. Honest or my names not John Denver.
So quit hemming and hawing and tell us the rest.
>Right, except for your questions and your public attempt to verify the
>Chen=Kibo garbage. And your faith in my sincerity, again, is beyond
>question.
Well Brian, if we can't trust your sincerity that's the last on the
list of your possibly redeeming virtues. And it turns out that you're
a hyporcrite because you run around complaining about my propensity
to tell tall tales.
Of course I've always known that you hedge out of things when
you're wrong. When faced with evidence that something you said
was false, your pattern is to change the subject (what we
in aav call the "yeah, but how about" tool of Zeiler logic
(an interesting school of thought that demands that you
disprove a negative)), then deny that you ever believed
something if the first tactic never worked (of course the
next stage is to come back some weeks or months latter
with the original claim so that means we can expect to hear
more of the evil Chen plot in the future...))
So anyway we see a pattern which is similar to what you do
when you try to weasel out of something. You try to change
the subject (look how I trolled Louis) and then deny that
you believed what you believed. It won't work Brian.
And it also shows your moral inferiority to me. See the first
thing I claim (and I often repeat it) is that I'm the only
one who can be trusted because I admit that I lie. Everything
I say is to be taken with a grain of salt. But you've been
going around saying how noble and sincere you are and all this
really pious, righteous stuff and now you are claiming that
anyone who believes in your sincerity is an idiot.
Brain you've just trolled yourself big time. You admit that
you are a liar (after denying it over and over) and you
seem to be really proud of it. So why should anyone ever
trust your claims about aliens again? You are pretty much
saying that you are willing to fabricate information, do
whatever is necessary to pursue your ideology. And you
are so fucking smug about it.
I mean Louis had every reason to believe in your sincerity. There
is your past record that shows you can believe anything. There
is the fact that you rant and rave against anyone who posts even
obvious satire. You even spend paragraphs in the letters you
sent Louis mocking trollers and saying how much better and
mature you are than them. I mean I just reread those letters
and I'm even more convinced of your sincerity than I was
the first time.
And since you have just proudly admitted that you are a liar,
then I have to believe that you are lying when you said you
were trying to troll Louis (again where's the troll?).
You have just added further evidence to this. We have no
reason to trust your sincerity (unlike that of Twitch,
Caldwell and others whom you continually insult) so it
seems most likely that you are lying in this and have
knowingly lied in many if not most of your claims about
alien visitation. You goofed "Brain." It is here in
black and white. You consider anyone who trusts in your
sincerity to be an idiot. This makes your condemnations of
me (who never hides my love of spoofing) rather hypocritical.
So now that we know your claims about UFOS are insincere, why
don't you leave aav? You are adding nothing of value and
merely destroying the credibility of believers.
-ac-
John and Susan Hutchins
snip
>You have basically said anyone who believes you is an idiot.
>Which is what I've said all along.
> -ac-
Interesting that I received a private email alerting me to a
"surprise" for Mr, Zeiler. I'd forgotten about it until I was
cleaning out my mailer's trash bin, and there it was.
John Hutchins
Andrea Chen
>Andrew S. "Gurk" Damick <asda...@unity.ncsu.edu> wrote:
>>We've known for a long time that Andrea Chen is actually the Kibo. You're
>>a truly ignorant fool, Zeiler. You see, I'm the Kibo, too, just like
>>Louis is the Kibo, and I happen to be the Kibo in charge of keeping the
>>Unauthorized Kibological ARKive.
Yes it was written. When John Winston returns all shall become kibo.
>>You, however, are NOT the Kibo. You're not even A Kibo.
Not true. "Brain" has managed to create a perfect example of
a certain type of "meta troll." He has succeeded in trolling
himself in a recursive structure in which each loop seems
to increase the power of the troll expotentially.
He appears to be becoming an exploding kibo.
He also shows that awareness is not necessary to troll. He
has succeeded in hooking himself and doesn't realize that
each dug of the line pulls his head deeper up his ass
(the recursive image of a snake swallowing itself) but
actually thinks that he is pulling on Louis Nick
(lost in Maya, the illusion by which the essence pursues
itself by pretending to be something else and there is
no doubt that "Brain" is that something else..)
I definitly think this should go into your ARKive. I think
Louis can provide other related papers. Years from now,
people will be pointing at whispering about the janitor
as he mutters to himself through a thick wad of gum that
he scraped off the bottom of chairs, "You see that guy,
he's one of the classic case studies in kibology." And
for a moment everyone will stare in awe and forget totally
about the smell. And Brain will swell up proudly and try
to speak through his gum which will get caught up inside his nose
(which gives it more flavor) and everyone will smile.
This is the beauty of kibology, it is such a humane religion,
it gives someone like "Brain" a purpose in life and he can
say (and it is true): "in my own way I am kibo too." This
will help through the long nights of cleaning floors.
-ac-
Brian Zeiler
John and Susan Hutchins wrote:
> Lord love a duck, Louis.
Please, bring your colloquialisms into 1996 so I can understand you.
> Brian has bitten twice in a twelvemonth!
Uh no... in fact, as JWalter also just showed, Nick was the one that got
trolled, but apparently the a.a.v. skeptics and the bizarre freakish
children of a.r.k. wish to believe otherwise. I emailed JWalter a whole
six days before any of this went public.
In fact, I explicitly asked Dean for his participation about a full day
before it came up here, too. I doubt he'll jump in to confirm this, but
notice he won't deny it, either, since it's correct.
> Those certainly are some critical thought patterns he has working
You are indicting your own sheep-flock mentality just like the pathetic
followers of a.r.k. suffering from identity crises. If you seriously
doubt I trolled Nick despite the fact that I alerted JWalter and Dean to
this fact well in advance of any discussion here, you're a gullible
idiot.
--
Brian Zeiler
joseph richard koleszar
In article <4ln779$g...@nntp4.u.washington.edu>,
>>We've known for a long time that Andrea Chen is actually the Kibo. You're
>>a truly ignorant fool, Zeiler. You see, I'm the Kibo, too, just like
>>Louis is the Kibo, and I happen to be the Kibo in charge of keeping the
>>Unauthorized Kibological ARKive.
>
>Gee, Gurk, where's that? <cue>
>
>>You, however, are NOT the Kibo. You're not even A Kibo.
>
>Ralph is more of a Kibo than Brian.
And that says something, because I am probably the most unkibolike
person here.
Ralph -- and Kibo is the most unralphlike person I know of
joseph richard koleszar
In article <4llr97$q...@crl8.crl.com>, Andrea Chen <dben...@crl.com> wrote:
>jkol...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (joseph richard koleszar) writes:
>>It's a
>>step up from my _usual_ style.
>
>Ok, you've got me beat. I'm still aspiring to that.
Aspire away, you'll never catch me. I am the most banal thing on Usenet.
>Anyway my name's not Ralph.
Neither is mine
Ralph -- really
Ed Davis
dben...@crl.com (Andrea Chen) wrote:
>sn...@u.washington.edu (Louis Nick III) writes:
>>Heya Andrea, did you create Kibo? This is for a bet.
>My relationship is a complex story. Many years ago I was going by
>the name of H Shen and I came to his attention. We have had a
>working identity since then. But no unlike me both Kibo and
>Doctress Neutopia both have fleshly identities (in Mass) to help
>move the Usenet experiment into the ordinary world. They are
>vectors by which we will use the designs created here to
>transform reality as ordinary people know it.
> -Holly-
Who the hell dares question KIBO ???
KIBO....IS
XIBO........(is, but should go away)
Hey, if you use usenet ya gotta
know Tremont Street and the legend
(or is that the legend from Tremont Street ?)
whodaresask?
just do a lycos search on the keyword:
bigfreakingstylingself-serving-worldpeaceloving
americanaallwrappedintoonemassivesigfileofallusenet
and you'll maybe get a clue.
Sourcerer
In article <4lljfe$n...@crl10.crl.com>, Andrea Chen <dben...@crl.com> wrote:
>Brian Zeiler <bdze...@students.wisc.edu> writes:
>>It's just too amazing. How gullible can you be, Nick? After trolling me
>>six months ago and KNOWING full well I was bound to strike back, you
>>actually believe my sincerity and ask Chen to "settle a bet" (ROFLMAO)
>>and admit as to whether or not "he" is Kibo. Ha! Pathetic!
>Have you ever noticed when people are trying to cover their asses
>they keep going on and on?
Yes. Is this your fourth or fifth follow-up in this thread?
--
(__) Sourcerer
/(<>)\ O|O|O|O||O||O
\../ |OO|||O|||O|| "No fucking interface!"
|| OO|||OO||O||O -- Brenda Laurel
Gardner S Trask
Brian Zeiler <bdze...@students.wisc.edu> writes:
>Uh no... in fact, as JWalter also just showed, Nick was the one that got
>trolled, but apparently the a.a.v. skeptics and the bizarre freakish
>children of a.r.k. wish to believe otherwise. I emailed JWalter a whole
>six days before any of this went public.
Everyone on the Usenet BE WARNED !!!!! I have just e-mailed JWalker with
the news that I intend to troll every last one of you VERY, VERY SOON!!!
MUhahahahahaha.
His reply was: Dy-NO-MITE*!!!
>In fact, I explicitly asked Dean for his participation about a full day
>before it came up here, too. I doubt he'll jump in to confirm this, but
>notice he won't deny it, either, since it's correct.
As opposed to denying it because it's wrong?!?!?
>You are indicting your own sheep-flock mentality just like the pathetic
>followers of a.r.k. suffering from identity crises. If you seriously
>doubt I trolled Nick despite the fact that I alerted JWalter and Dean to
>this fact well in advance of any discussion here, you're a gullible
>idiot.
I'll wait for the video.
>--
>Brian Zeiler
But of course you're Brian Zeiler. You told us that during the last alien
abduction/examination.
Gard "xwerzl plex. el Irredium, wist vyex 'Zeiler'." Decoder setting P17"
Trask
--
Gardner S. Trask III tr...@world.std.com
"First .cultured man on the Internet" alt.culture.gard-trask
rah...@sonic.net - Elf of the redwoods, sez "I don't crosspost.
I post Followups to other people's Crossposted posts on occasion."
Andrea Chen
Brian Zeiler <bdze...@students.wisc.edu> writes:
>John and Susan Hutchins wrote:
>> Lord love a duck, Louis.
>> Brian has bitten twice in a twelvemonth!
>You are indicting your own sheep-flock mentality just like the pathetic
>followers of a.r.k. suffering from identity crises. If you seriously
>doubt I trolled Nick despite the fact that I alerted JWalter and Dean to
>this fact well in advance of any discussion here, you're a gullible
>idiot.
Uh "Brain", I kind of hate to tell you this, but John just trolled
you. I know like you've just done like the best troll ever in
the whole history of Usenet, but you might want to go back
and study the basics.
-ac-
p.s. But I really mean it that you've done the best job of
somebody trolling themselves that I've ever seen. Nick
was wrong when he said you couldn't "meta troll." I think
you've managed to do something of a never before seen level
and type. I mean the troller and the trollee share the
same identity and neither one seems to be aware that they
have been trolled while they pull the line in tighter
and tighter. The way this is going your head is going
to poke out of your nose in a couple of days. I'm
impressed, really impressed. Honest.
>--
>Brian Zeiler
Andrew S. Gurk Damick
In alt.religion.kibology did Louis Nick III a stately USENET-post decree:
: Andrew S. "Gurk" Damick <asda...@unity.ncsu.edu> wrote:
: >In alt.religion.kibology did Brian Zeiler a stately USENET-post decree:
: >We've known for a long time that Andrea Chen is actually the Kibo. You're
: >a truly ignorant fool, Zeiler. You see, I'm the Kibo, too, just like
: >Louis is the Kibo, and I happen to be the Kibo in charge of keeping the
: >Unauthorized Kibological ARKive.
:
: Gee, Gurk, where's that? <cue>
Uhh....I lost it. Damn.
: Ralph is more of a Kibo than Brian.
Look here, Nick. My Kibo's larger than yours, and you're just JEALOUS,
YOU WHINING LITTLE NON-EXISTENT SMURF-BOY! I'll bet that the headlines
will soon be reading: "I BELIEVE BRIAN ZEILER." Then, we'll see where
you're headed.
GURK SAY "HERFH!" TO YOU! YOU FEEL GOOD!!
--Gurk
--
---- Andrew S. "Gurk" Damick, Prophet of Smerp ----
---- I ' m n o t t h e B o g e y M a n ! ! ----
-------- "Damick's gonna get me for sure." --------
--Ryan Younce
Andrea Chen
vag...@inanna.eanna.org (Sourcerer) writes:
>>Have you ever noticed when people are trying to cover their asses
>>they keep going on and on?
>Yes. Is this your fourth or fifth follow-up in this thread?
Are you accusing me of being behind Zeilers Colorado "source?"
I am shocked, truly shocked, that I would be suspected of
such a thing.
-ac-
Rev. Gypsy Joker At The People's Republic of Frobnia
Louis Nick III (sn...@u.washington.edu) wrote:
: Andrew S. "Gurk" Damick <asda...@unity.ncsu.edu> wrote:
: >In alt.religion.kibology did Brian Zeiler a stately USENET-post decree:
: >
: >: actually believe my sincerity and ask Chen to "settle a bet" (ROFLMAO)
: >: and admit as to whether or not "he" is Kibo. Ha! Pathetic!
: >We've known for a long time that Andrea Chen is actually the Kibo. You're
: >a truly ignorant fool, Zeiler. You see, I'm the Kibo, too, just like
: >Louis is the Kibo, and I happen to be the Kibo in charge of keeping the
: >Unauthorized Kibological ARKive.
:
: Gee, Gurk, where's that? <cue>
: >You, however, are NOT the Kibo. You're not even A Kibo.
:
Verily it is true! This "Brian" (or at least that's who he *CLAIMS* to be)
doesn't even measure a micro-kibo! Perhaps it's time for all you big time
fancy pants Orthodox Kibologists to finally bite the bullet and realise
that as we Fundamentalist Kibologists have said all along "We need a
Kibological Inquisition" to protect the spirit of "He Who Greps" from the
evil idolators and heretics that lurk about unfettered on the USENYET!
Neener,
President-for-Life Rev. Gypsy Joker KSC, IM, SP4, Earl of Fives
Critic, Neocheater and NO ONE EXPECTS THE KIBOLOGICAL INQUISITION!!
Paid fool for J.R. "Bob" Dobbs and Leader Kibo, Thank you very Much!
Czar of alt.gif-agreement
Fuck the CDA!, Sen. Exon is a Pig Fucker!
UN UbeR SeKrIt Agent Number #000
:
: --
Sourcerer
It's not as if an email troll from Colorado exposing the secret identities
of neu neutopians is a singular and unique phenomenon. I have several in
my collection (which are on display at the Wendy Wilton Memorial Museum
and Theme Park). We are considering installing the Zeiler/Nick troll in
our Exhibit Hall as a diorama and I need everyone to sign-off on the
permissions...who (or what) do suggest we use to represent you in the
tableaux?
--
(__) Sourcerer
/(<>)\ O|O|O|O||O||O "There was a crack in his head and a little
\../ |OO|||O|||O|| bit of the Dark World came through and
|| OO|||OO||O||O pressed him to death." -- Kipling
Rosie/Dan Truesdell
dben...@crl.com (Andrea Chen) wrote:
>[an enormous blob of liposuction debri]
Maybe it's just a low IQ or something, but I fail to see any
reason at all for this stuff. So and so trolled so and so.
ha. ha. Next subject, please.
Dan
Bruce Ediger
vag...@inanna.eanna.org (Sourcerer) wrote:
:It's not as if an email troll from Colorado exposing the secret identities
Of course not. I do it all the time.
Batman is Bruce Wayne! Spiderman is Peter Parker!
:and Theme Park). We are considering installing the Zeiler/Nick troll in
:our Exhibit Hall as a diorama and I need everyone to sign-off on the
:permissions...who (or what) do suggest we use to represent you in the
:tableaux?
I would suggest that you make many small statutes of Zeiler out of Q-tips
and ear wax, and that you make a Dancing Kali out of pressed rat guts
and rancid butter to represent Louis Nick's Buddha Nature.
Of course you can make a huge John F. Winston out of cream cheese to
loom ominously over the whole furshlugginer mess.
joseph richard koleszar
In article <4ls0rj$9...@seminole.gate.net>,
Rev. Gypsy Joker At The People's Republic of Frobnia <cdem...@gate.net> wrote:
>Verily it is true! This "Brian" (or at least that's who he *CLAIMS* to be)
>doesn't even measure a micro-kibo! Perhaps it's time for all you big time
>fancy pants Orthodox Kibologists to finally bite the bullet and realise
>that as we Fundamentalist Kibologists have said all along "We need a
>Kibological Inquisition" to protect the spirit of "He Who Greps" from the
>evil idolators and heretics that lurk about unfettered on the USENYET!
Yes! Let the Inquisition begin!
Ralph -- In nomine Kibo
David DeLaney
bed...@csn.net (Bruce Ediger) writes:
>vag...@inanna.eanna.org (Sourcerer) wrote:
>:It's not as if an email troll from Colorado exposing the secret identities
>
>Of course not. I do it all the time.
>
>Batman is Bruce Wayne! Spiderman is Peter Parker!
Oh you troller you. Everybody knows that Spiderman is Peter Parker's _clone_!
[Though this was only recently revealed by the Marvel Canoneers...]
>Of course you can make a huge John F. Winston out of cream cheese to
>loom ominously over the whole furshlugginer mess.
Dave "I don't think that anything made out of cream cheese can actually be said
to _loom_, although it might well contribute greatly to the mess"
ps: maybe if you made the John_-_Winston out of giant Hs that were made out
of cream cheese? .... nah.
--
\/David DeLaney d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeableURLAPvi
http://enigma.phys.utk.edu/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Wax Lips
In article <4lvudg$4...@dns.city-net.com> Sourcerer wrote:
> It's not as if an email troll from Colorado exposing the secret
> identities of neu neutopians is a singular and unique phenomenon.
> I have several in my collection (which are on display at the Wendy
> Wilton Memorial Museum and Theme Park).
Did somebody summon me?
-Wendy-
Ben Weiner
>>Heya Andrea, did you create Kibo? This is for a bet.
>My relationship is a complex story. Many years ago I was going by
>the name of H Shen and I came to his attention. We have had a
>working identity since then. But no unlike me both Kibo and
>Doctress Neutopia both have fleshly identities (in Mass) to help
>move the Usenet experiment into the ordinary world. They are
>vectors by which we will use the designs created here to
>transform reality as ordinary people know it.
> -Holly-
I knew "hollystone shen,"
and you, Andrea Chen,
are no "hollystone shen."
Ben "rhymin' faster than `Jesse Garon' today"
--
Mr. Weiner, I like your attitude very, very much. You understand the gist of my
proposal. I am glad that tghere are people like you who are not discouraged
with constantly negative, wet towel throwers, "it cannot be done" sayers who
constantly cling to the decadent "status quo". -- A.Abian to me on sci.astro
Leo Sgouros
> sn...@u.washington.edu (Louis Nick III) writes:
> >Heya Andrea, did you create Kibo? This is for a bet.
> My relationship is a complex story. Many years ago I was going by
> the name of H Shen and I came to his attention. We have had a
> working identity since then. But no unlike me both Kibo and
> Doctress Neutopia both have fleshly identities (in Mass) to help
> move the Usenet experiment into the ordinary world. They are
> vectors by which we will use the designs created here to
> transform reality as ordinary people know it.
> -Holly-
But plans, well laid, are in a good mood as a result so they
take their time. If my brief shot of the addy is correct, Holly's
mother lives at 3237 something or other.