SSC: Contemporary-music theory
Jorn Barger
quesions that I don't know where else to ask-- so I figured I'd try ark.
1) I can tolerate almost all music, so long as it's not too repetitive--
so why are virtually all radio stations predicated on
several-times-a-day repetition?
2) I really _tried_ to find something to like about classical music,
because the classical stations are by far the least repetitive, but
after hundreds of hours of listening it sounds more emotionally puerile
than ever (nursery rhyme-y, cartoony). Is this a secret truth-- that
classical-music lovers are twits?
3) Most surprising to me is that I'm starting to like top-40 hip-hop,
like TLC and 3LW and even Destiny's Child, which I feel betrays my
abstract non-commerical ideals. It seems to me they're really exploring
new poetic territory, matching musical rhythms to speech rhythms. Am I
going nuts?
4) I don't understand the difference between 'hip hop' and 'rap'. I
never liked any rap, and I used to think 'hip hop' included Paula
Abdul's "Straight Up" (which I loved, but which which doesn't sound like
hip-hop anymore). Define 'hip hop'.
5) I also love almost all trip-hop-- but nobody plays it. And is it
musically related to hip-hop, or was that just a convenient pun?
6) Mystikal's "Danger". Will it still sound this good in 3001?
--
http://www.robotwisdom.com/ "Relentlessly intelligent
yet playful, polymathic in scope of interests, minimalist
but user-friendly design." --Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel
Fantod
>My musical tastes have been changing lately, and I've got bunches of
>quesions that I don't know where else to ask-- so I figured I'd try ark.
I have an ego the size of a medium city, so I shall answer.
>1) I can tolerate almost all music, so long as it's not too repetitive--
>so why are virtually all radio stations predicated on
>several-times-a-day repetition?
"Teletubbies". Really. The radio stations realize that their most likely
audience is stupid, stoned, or both, so a good dose of "Again, again" keeps
them happy. Also, they don't want to be heard playing things that aren't
hits, because then they would not be cool, and there are only a limited
number of hits at any one time.
Solution: wfmu.org, where even if it sucks, something completely different
will be on in less than 3 hours.
>2) I really _tried_ to find something to like about classical music,
>because the classical stations are by far the least repetitive, but
>after hundreds of hours of listening it sounds more emotionally puerile
>than ever (nursery rhyme-y, cartoony). Is this a secret truth-- that
>classical-music lovers are twits?
My theory is that CMLs' brain are wired differently. They expect the pacing
of that sort of music, while the twitchy beat junkies find it slow and
unmoving. Try it with dinner and just let it exist in the background.
Also: Public Domain. Too much classical music gets overexposed.
>3) Most surprising to me is that I'm starting to like top-40 hip-hop,
>like TLC and 3LW and even Destiny's Child, which I feel betrays my
>abstract non-commerical ideals. It seems to me they're really exploring
>new poetic territory, matching musical rhythms to speech rhythms. Am I
>going nuts?
Maybe. Even if they are not "really exploring new poetic territory", the
modern musical machine is getting better at producing noise. If that is the
noise you like, listen to it.
>4) I don't understand the difference between 'hip hop' and 'rap'. I
>never liked any rap, and I used to think 'hip hop' included Paula
>Abdul's "Straight Up" (which I loved, but which which doesn't sound like
>hip-hop anymore). Define 'hip hop'.
Give a rapper some Valium and backup.
>5) I also love almost all trip-hop-- but nobody plays it. And is it
>musically related to hip-hop, or was that just a convenient pun?
IIRC, that is some white, suburban hip hop. Nobody plays it because that
would make them seem white and suburban.
>6) Mystikal's "Danger". Will it still sound this good in 3001?
No.
--
Patrick Phelan
w____\\W//___w Te Hupenui
Greetings, Programs
http://copeland.choicelogic.com/~phelan/
Glenn Knickerbocker
>after hundreds of hours of listening it sounds more emotionally puerile
>than ever (nursery rhyme-y, cartoony). Is this a secret truth-- that
>classical-music lovers are twits?
The secret truth is that classical-music lovers overall have about the
same levels of taste and emotional maturity as the general population.
>new poetic territory, matching musical rhythms to speech rhythms. Am I
>going nuts?
Yes. Listen to some early Baroque Italian opera and you'll hear the same
innovation. Only problem is, if you non parlate Italiano it'll be lost on
you.
>4) I don't understand the difference between 'hip hop' and 'rap'.
Swung and dotted rhythms versus straight eighth notes, same as the
difference between "cool" and "hot" jazz.
>5) I also love almost all trip-hop-- but nobody plays it. And is it
>musically related to hip-hop, or was that just a convenient pun?
Swung rhythms again.
>6) Mystikal's "Danger". Will it still sound this good in 3001?
What kinda storage medium you got?
ŹR \\ "More people are killed in cars every day than are
\\ killed by gay marriages. Why not outlaw cars?"
http://www.bestweb.net/~notr/cosmic.html \\ --Joe Guy
Ben Wolfson
>2) I really _tried_ to find something to like about classical music,
>because the classical stations are by far the least repetitive, but
>after hundreds of hours of listening it sounds more emotionally puerile
>than ever (nursery rhyme-y, cartoony). Is this a secret truth-- that
>classical-music lovers are twits?
Siddown and lissen your ass to Shostakovich's 8th string quartet, d00d.
Also you should get the Kronos Quartet's "Black Angels" album which has a
performance of same upon it as well as a lot of other good stuff except one
thing which is just terrible (They are There!--don't lissen to that.
Lissen to "Doom. A Sigh" twice instead!).
--
Barnabas T. Rumjuggler
Yet when he came down from the mountain, he had not gained any wisdom.
In no way had he been able to solve the riddle of this story. And he had
lost his faith. But he had discovered that he had an affinity for
Dixieland music. -- Joe Frank, "The Road to Calvary"
Carlos May
Jorn Barger <jo...@enteract.com> pondered:
: My musical tastes have been changing lately, and I've got bunches of
: quesions that I don't know where else to ask-- so I figured I'd try ark.
: 1) I can tolerate almost all music, so long as it's not too repetitive--
: so why are virtually all radio stations predicated on
: several-times-a-day repetition?
This format is not designed for those of us who don't care to hear
a few songs (usually internally redundant) repeated several times an
hour all day for weeks on end. The Music Industry instead uses this
format because they have discovered that a large and profitable segment
of society (let's call them "the auditory sheep") can be trained to
"like" almost any musical product simply by subjecting them to hammering
repeatition of same. Apparently the sheep have little ability to
distinguish between the states of "I am familiar with that song" and
"I like that song".
: 2) I really _tried_ to find something to like about classical music,
: because the classical stations are by far the least repetitive, but
: after hundreds of hours of listening it sounds more emotionally puerile
: than ever (nursery rhyme-y, cartoony).
I think it's largely simply a matter of personal taste.
(It's my second or third favorite.)
Sometimes there's more interest in the shifting harmonies than the
melodies per say.
: Is this a secret truth-- that classical-music lovers are twits?
No. Not all all of them. Don't let the "snob appeal" that "Classical"
is sometimes marketed with throw you off. Also, "Classical Music"
is something of a catch-all covering several centuries of music made
in many different nations by a wide variety of different and sometimes
quite idiosyncratic composers. The keyboard pieces of, say, Bach,
Chopin, and Scriabin fall under the "Classical" label, but if you
like or dislike one you might have a very different reaction to
another.
Also, you might do better by borrowing cds from the library than
by listening to the radio to find out what might interest you in
"Classical" music. Some classical radio does tend to stick to
repition of familiar not-too-challenging pieces, albeit more subtly
than pop stations.
[...hop-hop questions snipped since I dunno much about it and 95%
of my exposure to it is as played live by New Orleans brass bands
like the Soul Rebels. I'll note that I have a friend who loves
and can discuss articulately punk rock, rap, hip-hop, and 19th
century opera.]
-- Ear of Frog
* Fro...@neosoft.com ** "The Information Super-Frog" [dibs] *
"Moral disaster is coming to hundreds of young girls through the
pathological, sex-exciting music of jazz orchestras." -- The Illinois
Vigilance Association * http://www.angelfire.com/la/carlosmay/
Ben Wolfson
>Also, you might do better by borrowing cds from the library than
>by listening to the radio to find out what might interest you in
>"Classical" music. Some classical radio does tend to stick to
>repition of familiar not-too-challenging pieces, albeit more subtly
>than pop stations.
Classical radio stations seem to play less familiar pieces late at night.
Carlos May
: Swung and dotted rhythms versus straight eighth notes, same as the
: difference between "cool" and "hot" jazz.
Bzzzt!! Gaaah!!
HIBT, -- F.
* Fro...@neosoft.com ** "The Information Super-Frog" [dibs]*
* "Tounge of Frog" * Froggy's New Orleans Jazz & Mardi Gras Page:
http://www.geocities.com/infrogmation/
*"http://www" is pronounced "Hut-up Wow!". Hope This Helps! *
Dag Right-square-bracket-gren
> 5) I also love almost all trip-hop-- but nobody plays it. And is it
> musically related to hip-hop, or was that just a convenient pun?
"Trip-hop" is a term coined by the media, which as I understand the
musicians themselves never liked, but it' stuck. The problem is, I guess,
that it's far too broad a term. Some trip-hop music is very obviously
related to hip-hop - Morcheeba and Tricky would be excellent examples,
while others are not - say, Portishead, if you want to call them trip-hop.
Me, I just listen to the Anime series "Noir" soundtrack, over and over
again.
--
Dag Agren <> d...@c3.cx <> http://www.abo.fi/~dagren/ <> Legalize oregano
"REPLACE GLOBAL CAPITALISM WITH SOMETHING NICE!"
Tom Scudder
> Jorn Barger <jo...@enteract.com> pondered:
> : 1) I can tolerate almost all music, so long as it's not too repetitive--
> : so why are virtually all radio stations predicated on
> : several-times-a-day repetition?
>
> This format is not designed for those of us who don't care to hear
> a few songs (usually internally redundant) repeated several times an
> hour all day for weeks on end. The Music Industry instead uses this
> format because they have discovered that a large and profitable segment
> of society (let's call them "the auditory sheep") can be trained to
> "like" almost any musical product simply by subjecting them to hammering
> repeatition of same. Apparently the sheep have little ability to
> distinguish between the states of "I am familiar with that song" and
> "I like that song".
This bears, of course, NO RESEMBLANCE WHATSOEVER to what happens to
radio around about Mardi Gras in Certain Parts of the Country.
Or so I hear.
-- T
"I went to New Orleans. I went to Mardi Gras. I went to Mardi Gras. I
went to
New Orleans. Yeah, I went. Yeah, I went. Yeah, I went to the jazz
festival."
Jorn Barger
> >new poetic territory, matching musical rhythms to speech rhythms. Am I
> >going nuts?
>
> Yes. Listen to some early Baroque Italian opera and you'll hear the same
> innovation. Only problem is, if you non parlate Italiano it'll be lost on
> you.
So why hasn't it been used in English before?
> What kinda storage medium you got?
The usual-- slowly cooling volcanic lava.
Dramar Ankalle
Jorn Barger <jo...@enteract.com> wrote in message
news:1evxfal.1wuskr663uorwN%jo...@enteract.com...
> Glenn Knickerbocker <No...@bestweb.net> wrote:
> > >new poetic territory, matching musical rhythms to speech rhythms. Am I
> > >going nuts?
> >
> > Yes. Listen to some early Baroque Italian opera and you'll hear the
same
> > innovation. Only problem is, if you non parlate Italiano it'll be lost
on
> > you.
>
> So why hasn't it been used in English before?
>
> > What kinda storage medium you got?
>
> The usual-- slowly cooling volcanic lava.
Try a glycol shake caffeine^2 when you have had a long day stoking
Glenn Knickerbocker
> Glenn Knickerbocker <No...@bestweb.net> wrote:
> > Yes. Listen to some early Baroque Italian opera and you'll hear the same
> > innovation. Only problem is, if you non parlate Italiano it'll be lost on
> > you.
>
> So why hasn't it been used in English before?
Audiences got sick of it before it could find its way out of Italy.
Christopher Gibbons and Matthew Locke were already making fun of it by
the 1650s in their hysterical ape-show masque "Cupid and Death."
ŹR
Matt McIrvin
(Jorn Barger) wrote:
>2) I really _tried_ to find something to like about classical music,
>because the classical stations are by far the least repetitive, but
>after hundreds of hours of listening it sounds more emotionally puerile
>than ever (nursery rhyme-y, cartoony). Is this a secret truth-- that
>classical-music lovers are twits?
Don't tell me, you're listening to one of those classical stations that
plays only Mozart with the occasional venture into Vivaldi twice a day.
Which is to say, ANY CLASSICAL STATION.
Mozart's music was pretty enough, but you can only listen to so much
Mozart before your brain starts to turn into melting cotton candy.
Once in a while they dare to play some Haydn, who was a lot like
Mozart only with punch lines.
Once Sam and I went to a performance at Symphony Hall of some interesting
20th century stuff, including some piece by the Schuman who is not
Schumann. Afterward, heading to the subway station, we heard some guy
angrily complaining that "MOZART wouldn't a written that Schuman piece."
I knew a guy in college whose theory was that all classical-music
lovers didn't really like the stuff but were faking it to appear
intelligent, and bought albums by weight. I figure that his exposure
was through All Mozart, All the Time Radio for "Amadeus" Fans.
--
Matt McIrvin
Whose Titan Elbow
>
> Once Sam and I went to a performance at Symphony Hall of some interesting
> 20th century stuff, including some piece by the Schuman who is not
> Schumann. Afterward, heading to the subway station, we heard some guy
> angrily complaining that "MOZART wouldn't a written that Schuman piece."
If it hadn't'a been for MOZART, I wouldn't've spent that year in college.
FACT: Every good essay I wrote for college classes was written to MOZART's
Requiem, but every successful math study time happened to a Bob Marley
background. You pick up the pieces.
> I knew a guy in college whose theory was that all classical-music
> lovers didn't really like the stuff but were faking it to appear
> intelligent, and bought albums by weight. I figure that his exposure
> was through All Mozart, All the Time Radio for "Amadeus" Fans.
What they really ought to play is DUH!bussey.
--
CRGRE
``Reality of course would be something else entirly and these
Conjuctures of Quake `Applauses', `Seasons', `Jiggles', & `Rounds'.
are mostly theoritical and may not in fact be found in the Library.''
-Manley Hubbell
Ben Wolfson
wrote:
>Matt McIrvin schreef in berichtnieuws...
>
>> I knew a guy in college whose theory was that all classical-music
>> lovers didn't really like the stuff but were faking it to appear
>> intelligent, and bought albums by weight. I figure that his exposure
>> was through All Mozart, All the Time Radio for "Amadeus" Fans.
>
>What they really ought to play is DUH!bussey.
I JUST HEARD not Debussy but it was the SECOND time in TWO weeks I heard
Bolero! On the radio! Also in two weeks I have heard the Steppes of
Central Asia two times! On different radio stations, but STILL! What the
world needs is MORE STRAVINSKY esp. RITE of SPRING. Clang clang! The Rite
of Spring was the subject of a really CRAPPY art installation!
FACT: I am writing this post to the sweet strains of Cream's Politician,
looped over and over again! Later I will loop Nico Lost One Small Buddha
over and over again! NICO SUX)Rs
--
Barnabas T. Rumjuggler
No man can run so fast that he can escape his own past's projectile vomit.
Jorn Barger
> Don't tell me, you're listening to one of those classical stations that
> plays only Mozart with the occasional venture into Vivaldi twice a day.
In fact, WFMT in Chicago is supposedly one of the best.
But I don't listen closely enough, to match composers with tunes, so
describing the problem is very difficult.
1) At least once a day, something they play will include a nursery-rhyme
motif, offered as if it's the wittiest thing ever imagined. This
strongly summons a mental image of an 18th C twit in (eg) a Monty Python
sketch. And it's more-widely revealing because so much of the rest has
the same level of musical complexity...
2) The rhythms are just ***dull***. The harmonies, ditto. The arts are
supposed to _evolve_ as viewers get more experienced. Fetishizing the
ancients is like an adult claiming some childhood storybook is the best
thing ever written. (The toolkit of, eg, novelists has evolved
enormously since Defoe.)
3) Another mental image is oldfashioned ballroom dancing-- very prim and
chaste and emotionally limited. (I hate Strauss!) The whole classical
_scam_ seems to me about not looking critically at the smug posing of
the economically privileged classes.
4) The timbres of the instruments are also very limited-- brasses
especially.
5) I also mentioned cartoon-y imagery, and I don't believe this is just
my own conditioning-- the emotional palette of much classical music is
so superficial that cartoons are the only appropriate place for it. (I
think late 19th C Russians started broadening the palette significantly,
before it collapsed into modernism...?)
One thing I can say in _defense_ of classical is that, while Bach almost
always bores me, I finally heard an arrangement that I really liked-- by
the Swingle Singers. So the timbres of the human voice were enough to
revive my interest.
Beable van Polasm
>
> On different radio stations, but STILL! What the world needs is
> MORE STRAVINSKY esp. RITE of SPRING. Clang clang!
Played by Siouxsie and the Banshees!
cheers
Beable van Polasm
--
Donut worry. I assure you that whatever Beable's using, it's not likely to
be reason. Just relax and enjoy the matinee. -- David DeLaney
http://members.nbci.com/_______/index.html IQC 78189333
Beable van Polasm
>
> Mozart's music was pretty enough, but you can only listen to so much
> Mozart before your brain starts to turn into melting cotton candy.
Then you need to listen to some John Coltrane, and your brane will
turn into EXPLODIATING COTTON CANDY! WITH DURIANS!
Francesco Benvenuto
Glenn Knickerbocker <No...@bestweb.net> wrote:
>Yes. Listen to some early Baroque Italian opera and you'll hear the same
>innovation. Only problem is, if you non parlate Italiano it'll be lost on
>you.
For several reasons it will be lost on you even if you do speak Italian.
Opera lyrics were notoriously written by untrained monkeys. Even if the
librettos were marginally better in the baroque era: later romantic opera
lyrics were written by severely illiterate underpaid untrained monkeys.
As a result most librettos do not make much sense.
Foreign singers with awful pronounciation do not help either (not that
I am usually able to figure out what the domestic ones are singing about).
--
fB
DISCLAIMER: THIS DISCLAIMER IS NOT REQUIRED BY LEADER KIBO. THIS ARTICLE
DOES NOT NECESSARILY REPRESENT THE OPINIONS OF LEADER KIBO. THIS ARTICLE
DOES NOT NECESSARILY DISAGREE WITH LEADER KIBO EITHER. HAVE A NICE DAY!
Fantod
>5) I also mentioned cartoon-y imagery, and I don't believe this is just
>my own conditioning-- the emotional palette of much classical music is
>so superficial that cartoons are the only appropriate place for it. (I
>think late 19th C Russians started broadening the palette significantly,
>before it collapsed into modernism...?)
The music for the animated "Tale of the priest and his hired man, Baldo" was
by Dimitri Shostakovich, a really, really late 19th C Russian.
The same source also claimed he had metal plate in his head.
--
Patrick Phelan
w____\\W//___w Te Hupenui
LACEWORK REBELLION
http://copeland.choicelogic.com/~phelan/
Kev In, Boyz Out
jo...@enteract.com (Jorn Barger) wrote:
>1) At least once a day, something they play will include a nursery-rhyme
>motif, offered as if it's the wittiest thing ever imagined.
Well, some of this may actually be the other way 'round, same as the
cartoon-y-ness. I once heard someone criticize the Grateful Dead's
"Truckin'" for using such a cliche'd line as "what a long strange trip
it's been." Um, yes it's cliche *now*, d00d.
Note I said "some of this", not "all of this" or even "most of this".
>And it's more-widely revealing because so much of the rest has
>the same level of musical complexity...
Sturgeon's law. Duh.
>2) The rhythms are just ***dull***. The harmonies, ditto.
I tend to agree. Once in a while I hear something that really makes me
move, but it's rare enough that I can't be bothered to wade through the
rest and learn which composer/performer combinations work.
>4) The timbres of the instruments are also very limited-- brasses
>especially.
Yes yes yes! Orchestral music sux0rs especially violently. Violins
should be eliminated from the face of the earth. Violas are tolerable;
cellos r00l, but only as solo instruments. Take a string quartet and
replace the violin with an alto sax and you've got something.
I can't blame those dead white guys for not using electric guitars,
cause 19th century electric guitars were as large as a whole room and
required their own power station and water cooling.
But ferchrissake how about some originality in percussion instruments?
Something with attack? That's one thing that's really missing from
almost all classical music. It's all sustain, decay, release, sustain,
decay, release. I need attack. Bit o' the old in-out, in-out wouldn't
hurt, either.
>One thing I can say in _defense_ of classical is that, while Bach almost
>always bores me, I finally heard an arrangement that I really liked-- by
>the Swingle Singers. So the timbres of the human voice were enough to
>revive my interest.
Have you tried Glenn Gould's Goldberg Variations? Works for me.
Now if you'll excuse me I have to go listen to some 'Trane.
--
-keV
Poot Rootbeer
>Then you need to listen to some John Coltrane, and your brane will
>turn into EXPLODIATING COTTON CANDY! WITH DURIANS!
TACO SUPREME
TACO SUPREME
TACO SUPREME
TACO SUPREME
TACO SUPREME
TACO SUPREME
TACO SUPREME
TACO SUPREME
-Poot
Glenn Knickerbocker
> What they really ought to play is DUH!bussey.
IHNJH, IJLS "Debussy Fields Forever."
ŹR
Glenn Knickerbocker
> jo...@enteract.com (Jorn Barger) wrote:
> >the Swingle Singers. So the timbres of the human voice were enough to
> >revive my interest.
> Have you tried Glenn Gould's Goldberg Variations? Works for me.
The new one or the old one? Because we can't stand to listen to the new
one anymore, also his stupid humming and moaning sound like somebody's
being quietly suffocated over in the bedroom somewhere.
I get tired of Gould's Bach very quickly because it's all, Look at me!
Look at me! Look at me! Look at me! He played Mozart pretty nicely,
though, and Beethoven exquisitely.
ŹR
Whose Titan Elbow
> 1) At least once a day, something they play will include a nursery-rhyme
> motif, offered as if it's the wittiest thing ever imagined. This
> strongly summons a mental image of an 18th C twit in (eg) a Monty Python
> sketch.
A lighted hall. The table prepared for a banquet.
La Statua: JORRRRRRRRRRRRN BARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGER, a cenar teco
M'invitasti e son venuto!
wm. david muskeyn
"Ben Wolfson" <rumju...@cryptarchy.org> wrote in message
news:4lh2kt8ktk6668b59...@4ax.com...
> On 3 Jul 2001 03:14:05 GMT, Whose Titan Elbow <crgre+...@newsguy.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Matt McIrvin schreef in berichtnieuws...
> >
> >> I knew a guy in college whose theory was that all classical-music
> >> lovers didn't really like the stuff but were faking it to appear
> >> intelligent, and bought albums by weight. I figure that his exposure
> >> was through All Mozart, All the Time Radio for "Amadeus" Fans.
> >
> >What they really ought to play is DUH!bussey.
>
> I JUST HEARD not Debussy but it was the SECOND time in TWO weeks I heard
> Bolero! On the radio!
I think Bolero happened into existence when Ravel got some tune in his head
and just couldn't get it out ... it's more repetitious than a drunk
alcoholic. That's why, after you listen to it, it feels like you've
listened to the same tune 4 times over.
I'd suggest that the world should listen to the musical brilliance of
Dvorak, but most are so shallow when it comes to him that all they think of
upon hearing the name is the Largo movement of the New World Suite. He
wrote more than that, dammit! At least listen to his Carnival Overture or
*something*!!
- d.
"That's somethin' like nothin' else."
Whose Titan Elbow
> 2) The rhythms are just ***dull***. The harmonies, ditto.
You are sentenced to twenty years of having SPEM IN ALIUM running through
your head no matter what you do. SPEM!!!
> The arts are
> supposed to _evolve_ as viewers get more experienced.
Like, you go to the next level and stuff and there's a Boss Monster that
you have to fight!!! And it's a hideous, revolving CUBE!!! And!!! There's a
MONKEY in the CUBE!!! PUT THE MONKEY IN THE HAPPY CUBE!!!
> Fetishizing the
> ancients
First it was "Sweatin' to the Oldies" and now this.
> is like an adult claiming some childhood storybook is the best
> thing ever written. (The toolkit of, eg, novelists has evolved
> enormously since Defoe.)
BAH. If anything, the Novel has deteriorated into IDIOCY in the years since
The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy, Gentleman.
> 3) Another mental image is oldfashioned ballroom dancing-- very prim and
> chaste and emotionally limited. (I hate Strauss!)
You haven't replaced it with an image of a space station rotating, when we
first see it, in a clockwise direction, then, when the shuttle leaves for
the moon, in a counterclockwise direction???
Anyway, which Strauss? There's a dozen of them at least.
> The whole classical
> _scam_ seems to me about not looking critically at the smug posing of
> the economically privileged classes.
The idea that music carries some kind of "class consciousness message"
seems to have escaped the Berkeley Perimeter. I don't think it will survive
outside the special environment that generated it.
If it wasn't for the "ECONOMICALLY PRIVILEGED CLASSES" there wouldn't be
ANY interesting music at all in the record shops. There wouldn't be record
shops or anything and we'd have to LIVE inside giant, orbiting Wal*Marts
and if you thought "outside the box" your boold would boil and your eyes
expolde!
> 4) The timbres of the instruments are also very limited-- brasses
> especially.
QUESTION: How were the adult's "mwa-mwa-mwa"
voices made?
-->Studies show that students who play instruments that match their timbre
-->preference perform better and have a 50 percent lower dropout rate than
-->students who play instruments not matched to their timbre preference
Also, the Burning Eyes of Henry Kloss COMMAND you to buy the Tivoli Radio
http://www.tivoliaudio.com/ NOW
> 5) I also mentioned cartoon-y imagery, and I don't believe this is just
> my own conditioning-- the emotional palette of much classical music is
> so superficial that cartoons are the only appropriate place for it.
Yeah, you couldn't make a cartoon that had, like, a SABBATH song in the
background because the timbre and rhythmic structure of "Electric Funeral"
defies ALL CARTOONIC INTERPRETATION because SABBATH R0X0RS!!!!!!
SSC: I've been listening to the first four SABBATH LPs and almost nothing
else for most of this year. CAN YOU HELP ME? OC CU PY MY BRANE???
>(I
> think late 19th C Russians started broadening the palette significantly,
> before it collapsed into modernism...?)
Mussorgsky rules, but "collapsed into modernism (sic)" is nonsense. Pop
quiz: What is Modernism?
FURTHERMORE: Contrary to the usual HI-school/junior college history class,
musical styles do not evolve and die, they live on concurrently. Perhaps
this is a kind of "unwholesome survival" but it has the virtue of being
true. Did you know that there was a bigtime "early music" revival going on?
Only Doug Lea understands the Future!!!
Have you ever heard Messiaen, (non-Bolero) Ravel, Satie, or DE-BU-SSEY?
Those French dudes had some nifty ideas about sounds and stuff. Maybe they
were too bourgeois.
> One thing I can say in _defense_ of classical is that, while Bach almost
> always bores me, I finally heard an arrangement that I really liked-- by
> the Swingle Singers.
> So the timbres of the human voice were enough to
> revive my interest.
and we drown.
Beable van Polasm
>
> I think Bolero happened into existence when Ravel got some tune in his head
> and just couldn't get it out ... it's more repetitious than a drunk
> alcoholic. That's why, after you listen to it, it feels like you've
> listened to the same tune 4 times over.
One pill makes you larger
And one pill makes you small
And the ones that mother gives you
Don't do anything at all
Go ask Alice
When she's ten feet tall
And if you go chasing rabbits
And you know you're going to fall.
Tell'em a hookah smoking caterpillar
Has given you the call
Call Alice
When she was just small
When the men on the chessboard
Get up and tell you where to go
And you've just had some kind of mushroom
And your mind is moving low
Go ask Alice
I think she'll know.
When logic and proportion
Have fallen sloppy dead,
And the White Knight is talking backwards
And the Red Queen's "off with her head!"
Remember what the dormouse said:
Feed your head. Feed your head. Feed your head
cheers
Beable van Polasm
--
I'm wearing coat hangers on my feet. -- Chris Costello
IQC 78189333
http://members.nbci.com/_______/index.html
Ben Wolfson
<ladde...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I think Bolero happened into existence when Ravel got some tune in his head
>and just couldn't get it out ... it's more repetitious than a drunk
>alcoholic. That's why, after you listen to it, it feels like you've
>listened to the same tune 4 times over.
It's actually something like 300, but sure.
Ben Wolfson
wrote:
>Jorn Barger schreef in berichtnieuws...
>>(I
>> think late 19th C Russians started broadening the palette significantly,
>> before it collapsed into modernism...?)
WHAT about Johnny "Stompinado" Sibelius and his r0x0rin' fourth and second
symphonies and the swan of TUONELA (<-- name of album by Amorphis).
>Mussorgsky rules, but "collapsed into modernism (sic)" is nonsense. Pop
>quiz: What is Modernism?
WANKERS!
>Have you ever heard Messiaen, (non-Bolero) Ravel, Satie, or DE-BU-SSEY?
>Those French dudes had some nifty ideas about sounds and stuff. Maybe they
>were too bourgeois.
KUSC played Messiaen's "Illuminations of the Beyond" and I only heard about
fifteen minutes of it, but it was drun cool. Also the my CD with Bolero on
it also has nifty-keen none-boring Ravel and DE-BU-SSeY. I think my big
complaint against Bolero is that it just doesn't get LOUD enough, at least
in my recording. It gradually increases for maybe the first four minutes
and then just maintains its volume. WHAT kind of fun is THAT? Also: The
Hall of the Mountain King. I mean, jeez.
William Clifford
>>
>> Mozart's music was pretty enough, but you can only listen to so much
>> Mozart before your brain starts to turn into melting cotton candy.
>
> Then you need to listen to some John Coltrane, and your brane will
> turn into EXPLODIATING COTTON CANDY! WITH DURIANS!
Coltrane, with a few exceptions, always sounds to me like he's trying to
hard. Mingus on the other hand...*
A couple of years ago I told a friend that I was getting into jazz music
and exploring what was out there. He loaned me _Coltrane's Sound_ and
_Stellar Regions_. The first is Coltrane in the middle of his career and
classic Coltrane. It still sounds to me like he's trying to hard, but
the struggle is captivating. _Stellar Regions_ is (I think) the last
album he made before he died. I think it was meant as a test to see how
honest I would be with him about it. I told him I hated it--which at the
time I did. And I passed the test--he hated it too. He was sorry he had
ever bought the album. I'm sure my musical opinion with him would have
weighed far less.
About a year later I borrowed it from him again. I had borrowed an album
from my brother with a bunch of whale songs on in and
self-congratulatory propaganda for liner notes. It was still a beautiful
thing to listen too. And then _Stellar Regions_ became beautiful too.
This is not to say that _Stellar Regions_ sounds like Coltrane imitating
humpback whales. _Stellar Regions_ has similiar ethereal qualities to
the whale songs on the other CD. They had always been there but I hadn't
heard them before.
My friend was a little disappointed when I returned the album and said
that I liked it much better this time and maybe he should give it
another listen. I don't think he believed me. He had a lot of respect
for Coltrane but he was of the opinion that _Stellar Regions_ was the
product of a sick and dying man, a mere shadow of his former self. It
was too late for him to revise his opinion of me and my music taste by
them I had introduced him to Weather Report by then which was a band he
loved unconditionally and he probably is still grateful for me for
having loaned him _Heavy Weather_ oh so long ago.
* IYKWIM AITYD!
--
| William Clifford | wo...@yahoo.com | http://wobh.home.mindspring.com |
|"Don't know; have no opinion." |
| --Jet Black, _Cowboy Bebop_ |
David DeLaney
>> chaste and emotionally limited. (I hate Strauss!)
>
>You haven't replaced it with an image of a space station rotating, when we
>first see it, in a clockwise direction, then, when the shuttle leaves for
>the moon, in a counterclockwise direction???
Well, _duh_, it orbited down past the -equator- while we were running around
inside it!
Dave "at least we couldn't see the shadows things would've been casting, had
it not been a VACUUM" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://panacea.phys.utk.edu/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ/ I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
David Pacheco
> I think my big
> complaint against Bolero is that it just doesn't get LOUD enough, at least
> in my recording. It gradually increases for maybe the first four minutes
> and then just maintains its volume. WHAT kind of fun is THAT?
Go see "Blast!"
Don't sit in the front. Unless, of course, you enjoy having an
exploding head. They play "Bolero" as the first tune, and keep
increasing the volume all the way through until it becomes less
a musical piece, more a stress test for concrete.
I saw it in the U.K., and it had some clever bits. But in
general it was dull, dull, DULL as you can get while still being
annoyingly perky. It was like watching the half-time show
marching band in a U.S. high-school football game for an hour
and a half, with the added benefit that the night we went, the
show was being taped for the subsequent video release; since the
Hammersmith Apollo was only half-full, they filled the empty
seats with cast family members who gave *every* song a standing
ovation. And whooping yells and screams all the way through.
All the U.K. natives politely applauded, and uttered muted "eh-
HEMs" and "tsk-tsks" whenever the non-natives became too
boisterous. But the concept of a half-time marching band seemed
to be a bit confusing, since in the U.K. any time at a sporting
arena not taken up by the actual sport itself is generally
consumed by drinking tea (cricket, tennis) or rioting
(everything else).
The show did nothing to relieve the belief that every single
U.S. citizen carries multiple guns, since several of the
choreography pieces featured weapons instead of the traditional
baton. Fake, of course, but realistic enough to keep most of
the rioting off-stage and in the vomitoriums and cheap seats
where it belongs.
Faithfully yours,
- Lt. Brgdr. david pacheco, Esq (dec.)
marika
>
> If it hadn't'a been for MOZART, I wouldn't've spent that year in college.
>
> FACT: Every good essay I wrote for college classes was written to MOZART's
> Requiem, but every successful math study time happened to a Bob Marley
> background. You pick up the pieces.
Every Good College Student Has Been to A Frat Party Where the Band
Covers the Average White Band
I miss my beer bong.
>
> > I knew a guy in college whose theory was that all classical-music
> > lovers didn't really like the stuff but were faking it to appear
> > intelligent, and bought albums by weight. I figure that his exposure
> > was through All Mozart, All the Time Radio for "Amadeus" Fans.
>
> What they really ought to play is DUH!bussey.
I cannot do factorials. That is too complicated, I prefer the B!aha
Men to Boys.
Woof Woof.
I have been trying to write some applications for job changes. I am
supremely confused.
Who hacked my Eudora?
I have been trying to find my emails where I sent myself stuff from
work on this subject.
A whole messo mails are merged into other mails.
According to a saved Eudora message, I once went to a huge new years
party in march, and I kept stealing tickets from the other customers
in order to get readmitted. Because I wanted many free meals. There
were weathermen from every station present. And one from Idaho got
mad, because he wanted to sell the raffle tickets, but they wouldn't
let him because they said no one recognized him. There weren't enough
chairs so I had to sit on a bar stool which was much higher than the
table, so I had to bend down to eat my ham. And Roger Ebert reviewed
the macaroni and potato salad.
Has this ever happened to anyone else
Jeremy Impson
> Every Good College Student Has Been to A Frat Party Where the Band
> Covers the Average White Band
EGCSHBAFPWBCAWB
Huh??
[snip]
> According to a saved Eudora message, I once went to a huge new years
> party in march, and I kept stealing tickets from the other customers
> in order to get readmitted. Because I wanted many free meals. There
> were weathermen from every station present. And one from Idaho got
> mad, because he wanted to sell the raffle tickets, but they wouldn't
> let him because they said no one recognized him. There weren't enough
> chairs so I had to sit on a bar stool which was much higher than the
> table, so I had to bend down to eat my ham. And Roger Ebert reviewed
> the macaroni and potato salad.
marika, are you the Love Child of Dave Pacheco and Kurt Stocklmier?
> Has this ever happened to anyone else
We can only dream. Somehow you converse with us with ease, but make no
sense whatsowhoever.
--Jeremy
[SFX: Too Much - dmb]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeremy Impson
http://nwc.syr.edu/~jdimpson
Jorn Barger
> >new poetic territory, matching musical rhythms to speech rhythms. Am I
> >going nuts?
> innovation. Only problem is, if you non parlate Italiano it'll be lost on
> you.
I went and read up on this a little-- isn't it fair to say the history
of singing includes _dozens_ of small revolutions, where rhythm and
poetry were combined in more expressive ways?
There's a vast emotional distance between 17thC Italy and 21stC
urban-US, and even if the former sang with its own authority about
gangwars and boyfriend-troubles, their rhythms just wouldn't cut it
today. (Hip-hop is post- rock'n'roll, especially. Opera is pre-.)
Glenn Knickerbocker
>There's a vast emotional distance between 17thC Italy and 21stC
>urban-US, and even if the former sang with its own authority about
>gangwars and boyfriend-troubles, their rhythms just wouldn't cut it
>today. (Hip-hop is post- rock'n'roll, especially. Opera is pre-.)
Oh, yes. We are -SO- much more emotionally mature than all those puerile
17C Italians now. I mean, what's your damage? Getting all worked up
because your daughter was kidnapped by the King of the Underworld, that is
-SO- 4301 B.C.
ŹR \\ "More people are killed in cars every day than are
\\ killed by gay marriages. Why not outlaw cars?"
http://www.bestweb.net/~notr/cosmic.html \\ --Joe Guy
Jorn Barger
> >There's a vast emotional distance between 17thC Italy and 21stC
> >urban-US, and even if the former sang with its own authority about
> >gangwars and boyfriend-troubles, their rhythms just wouldn't cut it
> >today. (Hip-hop is post- rock'n'roll, especially. Opera is pre-.)
>
> Oh, yes. We are -SO- much more emotionally mature than all those puerile
> 17C Italians now.
It's the _toolkit_ of the musicians that I think has matured.
And I'm suspicious those who praise the older toolkit as superior-- I
don't think they listen honestly, and I think they value its
inaccessibility for reasons that have more to do with ego than with art.
Glenn Knickerbocker
> And I'm suspicious those who praise the older toolkit as superior--
I would still say they listen just about equally honestly and maturely
as the general population. I think one important lesson of the past
century is that EVERY music is niche music.
ŹR
Whose Titan Elbow
The Software didn't like your "cee-dee" collection, so the Software used
your credit card and replaced it.
> And I'm suspicious those who praise the older toolkit as superior-- I
> don't think they listen honestly,
It's so inauthentic if, like, you like stuff that you like, BOOGEWAH PEEEG!
> and I think they value its
> inaccessibility for reasons that have more to do with ego than with art.
Yeah right, "Vivaldi for Relaxtion" was made because it's, like, totally
inaccessible and they had to make "Bach for Dummies" because the archaic,
inaccessible toolkit he used requires transfinite tumblers.
If you drink out of a transfinite tumbler, what do you turn into?
Whose Titan Elbow
> There's a vast emotional distance between 17thC Italy and 21stC
> urban-US,
Gosh, if that Paglia lady hears about this -- tutto brutto!!!
> and even if the former sang with its own authority about
> gangwars and boyfriend-troubles, their rhythms just wouldn't cut it
> today. (Hip-hop is post- rock'n'roll, especially. Opera is pre-.)
Writing that grad school admission essay is tough! Just remember that you
need to _reproblematize the hip hop_. Isn't hip hop *really* just a
Eurocentric post-colonial colonization to sell more Sprite and Glocks?
Whose Titan Elbow
Tovarishch! Does your band harbor kulaks!??
Glenn Knickerbocker
> Tovarishch! Does your band harbor kulaks!??
I gotcher kulak RIGHTCHERE, yeah, right in your litso, TY DURAK!
Oh, and hai, Khidistavs shevkrat piroba, chven gakhvdet ghvidzli
dzmania, chaukhtet Mukhran Batonsa, tavs davangriot bania!
Ź(if it's good enough for space aliens it's good enough for you)R
Carlos May
: Carlos May <fro...@starbase.neosoft.com>:
[...radio redundancy...]
: This bears, of course, NO RESEMBLANCE WHATSOEVER to what happens to
: radio around about Mardi Gras in Certain Parts of the Country.
: Or so I hear.
: -- T
: "I went to New Orleans. I went to Mardi Gras. I went to Mardi Gras. I
: went to
: New Orleans. Yeah, I went. Yeah, I went. Yeah, I went to the jazz
: festival."
Not one of the better Carnival songs, and not heard on *my* show.
(Info on which are the better New Orleans Carnival songs availible
on request.) Also, if I play a particular version of a song once a year,
that is heavy rotation by my standards.
-- F.
* Fro...@neosoft.com ** "The Information Super-Frog" [dibs] *
http://www.angelfire.com/la/carlosmay/
Ben Wolfson
>Glenn Knickerbocker <No...@bestweb.net> wrote:
>> >There's a vast emotional distance between 17thC Italy and 21stC
>> >urban-US, and even if the former sang with its own authority about
>> >gangwars and boyfriend-troubles, their rhythms just wouldn't cut it
>> >today. (Hip-hop is post- rock'n'roll, especially. Opera is pre-.)
>>
>> Oh, yes. We are -SO- much more emotionally mature than all those puerile
>> 17C Italians now.
>
>It's the _toolkit_ of the musicians that I think has matured.
How has it *matured*, as opposed to merely *changed*? So 17th-century
Italian opera's rhythms wouldn't cut it today (whatever that means: is it
unsuitable musical accompaniment for our post-fin-de-siecle woes, or
what?); hip-hop's wouldn't have then. Implicit in maturation is the idea
that it's *better* now, which seems just as indefensible to me as praise of
the old seems to you.
>And I'm suspicious those who praise the older toolkit as superior-- I
>don't think they listen honestly, and I think they value its
>inaccessibility for reasons that have more to do with ego than with art.
I'm tempted just to say "sour grapes", but hey, I'm ignant on both sides.
Matt McIrvin
(Jorn Barger) wrote:
>It's the _toolkit_ of the musicians that I think has matured.
>
>And I'm suspicious those who praise the older toolkit as superior-- I
>don't think they listen honestly, and I think they value its
>inaccessibility for reasons that have more to do with ego than with art.
I'm just going to quiet down now and let other people post in this
thread, since it's clear that I'm probably going to confess to liking
something that identifies me as a morally corrupt person.
Argue amongst yourselves.
--
Matt McIrvin
Whose Titan Elbow
> How has it *matured*, as opposed to merely *changed*? So 17th-century
> Italian opera's rhythms wouldn't cut it today (whatever that means: is
> it unsuitable musical accompaniment for our post-fin-de-siecle woes, or
> what?); hip-hop's wouldn't have then. Implicit in maturation is the
> idea that it's *better* now, which seems just as indefensible to me as
> praise of the old seems to you.
>
"Matured" in a "Logan's Run" sense.
David DeLaney
>Yeah right, "Vivaldi for Relaxtion" was made because it's, like, totally
>inaccessible and they had to make "Bach for Dummies" because the archaic,
>inaccessible toolkit he used requires transfinite tumblers.
>
>If you drink out of a transfinite tumbler, what do you turn into?
I don't know but you have to pour from a Klein bottle!
HAW HAW! Cant0r!
Dave "will transcend finite humor for food" DeLaney
Jorn Barger
> >It's the _toolkit_ of the musicians that I think has matured.
> How has it *matured*, as opposed to merely *changed*? So 17th-century
> Italian opera's rhythms wouldn't cut it today (whatever that means: is it
> unsuitable musical accompaniment for our post-fin-de-siecle woes, or
> what?); hip-hop's wouldn't have then. Implicit in maturation is the idea
> that it's *better* now, which seems just as indefensible to me as praise of
> the old seems to you.
Thru the 20th century, as each new rhythmic craze swept the West
(dixieland, swing, rock, reggae, etc) there were musicians who got stuck
and couldn't master the new one.
Theoretically non-reversible:
Jenny said, when she was just five years old
There was nothin' happening at all
Every time she puts on the radio
There was nothin' goin' down at all, not at all
Then, one fine mornin', she puts on a New York station
You know, she couldn't believe what she heard at all
She started shakin' to that fine, fine music
You know, her life was saved by rock'n'roll
E Teflon Piano
<mmci...@world.std.com> wrote:
Let's put Matt McIrvin on the Corruptometer:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
pulls wings off flies clubs baby seals requests back to bach on WGBH
^
|
--
Institute for Misapplied Psychometry fellow E Teflon Piano is founder of the
Internet 'Lectronic Legal Society. Teflon is a mark owned by duPont. E is E
poly(TFE) Piano Enterprises' [dibs] for ironic hyperbole and elitist satire.
ŠE[dibs] 1994-2001
Ben Wolfson
>Ben Wolfson <rumju...@cryptarchy.org> wrote:
>> >It's the _toolkit_ of the musicians that I think has matured.
>> How has it *matured*, as opposed to merely *changed*? So 17th-century
>> Italian opera's rhythms wouldn't cut it today (whatever that means: is it
>> unsuitable musical accompaniment for our post-fin-de-siecle woes, or
>> what?); hip-hop's wouldn't have then. Implicit in maturation is the idea
>> that it's *better* now, which seems just as indefensible to me as praise of
>> the old seems to you.
>
>Thru the 20th century, as each new rhythmic craze swept the West
>(dixieland, swing, rock, reggae, etc) there were musicians who got stuck
>and couldn't master the new one.
But that doesn't imply maturation. There are plenty of musicians in
current styles who can't master old ones.
Jorn Barger
> >Thru the 20th century, as each new rhythmic craze swept the West
> >(dixieland, swing, rock, reggae, etc) there were musicians who got stuck
> >and couldn't master the new one.
>
> But that doesn't imply maturation. There are plenty of musicians in
> current styles who can't master old ones.
Suppose, for the sake of debate, we say the most mature performer is the
one who can segue most smoothly between _all_ styles. And picture a
band of topnotch performers jamming brilliantly, trying to include as
rich a selection of styles as the jam can support...
Will they really be able to include classical styles without totally
deflating their sails?
Glenn Knickerbocker
> Will they really be able to include classical styles without totally
> deflating their sails?
ITYM your own sails. You're the one insisting that unchecked
intensification and syncopation of rhythm is the "mature" thing.
Also go back and listen to the art-rock bands of the early 1970s. I'd
hardly call it deflation when, say, Steve Hackett or Steve Howe was
suddenly left playing a classical-guitar solo or Peter Cross took off on
a cadenza.
ŹR
Ben Wolfson
>Ben Wolfson <rumju...@cryptarchy.org> wrote:
>> >Thru the 20th century, as each new rhythmic craze swept the West
>> >(dixieland, swing, rock, reggae, etc) there were musicians who got stuck
>> >and couldn't master the new one.
>>
>> But that doesn't imply maturation. There are plenty of musicians in
>> current styles who can't master old ones.
>
>Suppose, for the sake of debate, we say the most mature performer is the
>one who can segue most smoothly between _all_ styles. And picture a
>band of topnotch performers jamming brilliantly, trying to include as
>rich a selection of styles as the jam can support...
Wouldn't that definition of maturity (for performers) mean that most
classical musicians are more mature performers than most current popular
musicians? Granted, they might not segue in a single piece from one
classical style to another, but they play a pretty broad range in their
careers, I imagine.
>Will they really be able to include classical styles without totally
>deflating their sails?
Yes, depending on which styles. There's a guy at my former high school
who's some kind of violin prodigy fellow who played solo pieces
(unfortunately I don't know what any of them were called) at latin
conventions. If he were in a rock band, improvisational or not, and he
played stuff similar to what I've heard him play, it would sound great,
assuming the other musicians were also good. That was meant to be an
example in support of my position, but since I can't tell you what he
played it probably won't help too much.
What I can't imagine is a group going from, say, "An American in Paris" to
one of the Brandenburg concerti without sounding really strange.
So, have any ska bands covered that Charlie Brown song? I think that would
be a great.
Eli M. Balin
Ben Wolfson <rumju...@cryptarchy.org> wrote:
>
>Classical radio stations seem to play less familiar pieces late at night.
Most of the classical radio stations I've heard have tended to play
bombastic marches using all the brass in Prussia during the wee hours.
--
elib...@panix.com http://www.panix.com/~elibalin/
"From Rangoon to Qatar...the haggis is piped in..."
-Smithsonian Magazine, March 2001
wm. david muskeyn
"Eli M. Balin" <elib...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:9i4tk4$hjf$1...@panix2.panix.com...
> In article <iopujt0uv901pgcef...@4ax.com>,
> Ben Wolfson <rumju...@cryptarchy.org> wrote:
> >
> >Classical radio stations seem to play less familiar pieces late at night.
>
> Most of the classical radio stations I've heard have tended to play
> bombastic marches using all the brass in Prussia during the wee hours.
The [predominantly] classical station I listen to (which happens to be CBC
radio two) plays underground techno, hip-hop, and indie rock from midnight
to 4 a.m.
--
wm. david muskeyn
"That's somethin' like nothin' else."
Jeremy Impson
> Also go back and listen to the art-rock bands of the early 1970s. I'd
> hardly call it deflation when, say, Steve Hackett or Steve Howe was
> suddenly left playing a classical-guitar solo or Peter Cross took off on
> a cadenza.
Pete really should be careful. He could fall off and break his neck, or
worse, his playing hand(s) (depending on what he played). That really is
rather immature, but no worse I suppose than the insane antics of so many
other "Rock" "and" "Rollers". What is it about them and taking bizaare
personal risks? And why do they insist on smashing up and climbing all
over furniture? It just goes to sho--.
Oh. Cadenza. I thought you said "credenza". Never mind.
--Jeremy
Whose Titan Elbow
> Will they really be able to include classical styles without totally
> deflating their sails?
Yngwie does it every day of his life! You can't deflate Yngwie!
marika
> On 4 Jul 2001, marika wrote:
>
> We can only dream. Somehow you converse with us with ease, but make no
> sense whatsowhoever.
>
> --Jeremy
>
> [SFX: Too Much - dmb]
Yes dear Jeremy, I am too much dmb and stpid, A:LSO. and I don't even
have pretty as an excuse for the dmbness stpidness. Or the
whatsowhoever that the cat dragged in. I am not smart as a
kibologist.
Though, please answer a question of me, that is, why as a person who
knows a lot of computers, would you can only dream of having a hacker
break your Eudora so all your messages merge. Is there something
Stuzzy abaut this that makes your envious of mine? Because my merge is
not reversible. OR not that I can find.
Today, our state representative Dick Cranwell said that he is going to
not run for office again. And when people questioned his motives, he
said he has no revenge, no anger, or anything else in his mind. He is
a poet! A POET!! I will miss him.
Matt McIrvin
marik...@my-deja.com (marika) wrote:
> Though, please answer a question of me, that is, why as a person who
> knows a lot of computers, would you can only dream of having a hacker
> break your Eudora so all your messages merge. Is there something
> Stuzzy abaut this that makes your envious of mine? Because my merge is
> not reversible. OR not that I can find.
Oxo wow. Wavy.
> Today, our state representative Dick Cranwell said that he is going to
> not run for office again. And when people questioned his motives, he
> said he has no revenge, no anger, or anything else in his mind. He is
> a poet! A POET!! I will miss him.
A Jedi does not seek revenge. THAT POSTER NEVER EXISTED!!!!
--
Matt McIrvin
Rid
<crgre+...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>Jorn Barger schreef in berichtnieuws...
><snip>
>> Will they really be able to include classical styles without totally
>> deflating their sails?
>
>Yngwie does it every day of his life! You can't deflate Yngwie!
you have an inflatable Yngwie?
--
Philip parked, unbuckled the seat belt, exhaled. Work. It could be worse.
It had been. This was safe harbour. So far, he had seen no signs
of Cthulhu or Yog-Sothoth or his dread messenger, Nyarlathotep.
- William Browning Spencer _Resume with Monsters_
Fantod
The mostly classical station I occasionally listen to played the soundtrack
to Myst 3 the week before last at 9 PM.
--
Patrick Phelan
w____\\W//___w Te Hupenui
Sargassum, the weed of deceit - Dr. Z
http://copeland.choicelogic.com/~phelan/
Beable van Polasm
> Let's put Matt McIrvin on the Corruptometer:
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> pulls wings off flies clubs baby seals requests back to bach on WGBH
> ^
> |
So if I read this with a proportional font, Matt clubs seals?
cheers
Beable van Polasm
--
Jason, USENET is filled with predators -- Andrea Chen
No, no, it's filled with tasty prey! -- James "Kibo" Parry
IQC 78189333 http://members.nbci.com/_______/index.html
Dag Right-square-bracket-gren
> Writing that grad school admission essay is tough! Just remember that you
> need to _reproblematize the hip hop_. Isn't hip hop *really* just a
> Eurocentric post-colonial colonization to sell more Sprite and Glocks?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Band name! No wait, that doesn't work... Song name!
--
Dag Agren <> d...@c3.cx <> http://www.abo.fi/~dagren/ <> Legalize oregano
"REPLACE GLOBAL CAPITALISM WITH SOMETHING NICE!"
marika
> [wm. david muskeyn]:
> The mostly classical station I occasionally listen to played the soundtrack
> to Myst 3 the week before last at 9 PM.
The one here plays nothing but K Markt Blue Light Specials Music and
also, TV Themes Pops. Sometimes you get to hear a classical piece
once in a while.
From Ghamehendge by Phish
Narration (AC/DC Bag)
Meanwhile, in the main square in
Prussia,
the state of the revolution was
taking
another turn for the worst. A crowd
of
townspeople had gathered to witness
the
hanging of Wilson's accountant, Mr. Palmer. It seemed
that Palmer
had been a revolutionary himself and had been extorting
Wilson's
money to fund the revolution. Palmer stood on the
scaffold with
Wilson and the AC/DC Bag, an electrified robot-hangman
with a
black bag over his head. Wilson seemed pleased as he
began to
speak.
Whose Titan Elbow
Jul 2001 12:31:36 GMT]
> Whose Titan Elbow <crgre+...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
>> Writing that grad school admission essay is tough! Just
>> remember that you need to _reproblematize the hip hop_.
>> Isn't hip hop *really* just a Eurocentric post-colonial
>> colonization to sell more Sprite and Glocks?
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Band name! No wait, that doesn't work... Song name!
>
To the tune of "Court and Spark"????????????
--
CRGRE
``My man is in the right," said Mr Pickwick, accosting Job,
"although his mode of expressing his opinion is somewhat
homely and occasionally incomprehensible."
Mark Twain: A Dialogue
> Glenn Knickerbocker <No...@bestweb.net> wrote:
> > >There's a vast emotional distance between 17thC Italy and 21stC
> > >urban-US, and even if the former sang with its own authority about
> > >gangwars and boyfriend-troubles, their rhythms just wouldn't cut it
> > >today. (Hip-hop is post- rock'n'roll, especially. Opera is pre-.)
> >
> > Oh, yes. We are -SO- much more emotionally mature than all those puerile
> > 17C Italians now.
>
> It's the _toolkit_ of the musicians that I think has matured.
You know, you're absolutely right. It is my opinion that classically
notated rhythm was an uncomfortable transitory period between
early/Gregorian music (where rhythm was not notated at all) and our shiny
new postmodern era that has razed the dichotomy of piece and performance.
If you want a rhythm nowadays, fire up the MPC2000 and *make* that rhythm;
don't leave it to the contingincies of "performance tradition."
> And I'm suspicious those who praise the older toolkit as superior-- I
> don't think they listen honestly, and I think they value its
> inaccessibility for reasons that have more to do with ego than with art.
Don't be so quick to knock Mozart. Sometimes you'll hear two melodies
playing at once; if you listen closely, you can hear that one of the
melodies contains truncations or developments of melodic elements in the
other. I suggest you check a book on sonata form out of the library,
unless you're familiar with the forms, you won't be able to fully
appreciate the *drama* of classical music.
Oh yeah, and Hindemith's Sonata opus 31 number 2; cutesy nursery tune
quotation, but he's not joking.
--
Don't believe the dental hygine LIE!!!
€ Twidn € http://www.nr.infi.net/~tagutcow/twidn.html
€ Krafft-Ebing € http://www.nr.infi.net/~tagutcow/krafft.html
I'm high on elderly abuse!
Michael Straight
> It's the _toolkit_ of the musicians that I think has matured.
The toolkit is huge, but most musical genres only realy delve into a few
subsets of it. Modern pop music may do more interesting things with
rhythm and sonic textures (creating new sounds rather than having
basically the same guitar sound in every song), but compared to classical
music is pretty primitive melodically and harmonically.
A lot of Bach's music takes almost no account of texture, it sounds as
good on an organ, a guitar, a piano, a synthesizer, or a group of Swingle
Singers. The interest is in the melodies and harmonies, how the various
lines fit together, the interesting ways in which a melody is transformed.
(A interesting exception you might enjoy are Bach's Suites for Solo Cello,
which are written to take advantage of the beautiful sounds of this
intstrument--but even they can be successfully played on other
instruments.)
Beethoven or Shostakovich's string quartets do beautiful things with
melody and harmonic development, way beyond anything you hear in the
typical 3 chords of pop music, but they all sound the same in the sense
that they all sound like two violins, a viola, and a cello. For some
people, that sameness is too boring for them to enjoy the good stuff
that's in those quartets.
Pop music delves deeply in the "sonic texture" section of the toolbox--the
novelty of the sound, the intimacy of the singer's voice are often so
important to the song that it sounds lame when sung by someone else or
played on different instruments--but mostly ignore all the melodic,
harmonic, and structural complexity developed by classical composers: How
many songs vary much from verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus? How
many have really beautiful melodies rather than simple melodic hooks?
How many have room to really develop a melody, let it grow from a simple
idea into something big, beautiful, amazing even?
I enjoy rock and pop music, it does things for me that classical music
doesn't, but conversely, there is absolutely nothing in pop music that can
invoke awe and wonder for me the like Shostakovich's Prelude and Fugue in
D minor (Op. 87). And all of my favorite melodies are from classical
music: Faure, Bach, Vaughn Williams, Bernstein (does West Side Story count
as classical or pop?)
SMTIRCAHIAGEHLT
Dramar Ankalle
Michael Straight <stra...@email.unc.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.A41.4.21L1.01071...@login1.isis.unc.edu...
http://www.marko.net/phish/nrvmain/lyrics/vers.html
Couldnt resist. :-/
IHBH(appily)T,HAND
Whose Titan Elbow
> How
> many songs vary much from verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus? How
> many have really beautiful melodies rather than simple melodic hooks?
It's I-IV-V and II-V-I all the way down.
--
CRGRE
``I would love to be remembered after I'm gone as the `father of the
artificial brain', but I certainly don't want to be seen in future
historical terms as the `father of gigadeath'.'' -- Prof. Dr. Hugo de Garis
see:
http://www.cs.usu.edu/~degaris/news/nyt.html
Jeremy Impson
> Pop music delves deeply in the "sonic texture" section of the toolbox--the
> novelty of the sound, the intimacy of the singer's voice are often so
> important to the song that it sounds lame when sung by someone else or
> played on different instruments--but mostly ignore all the melodic,
> harmonic, and structural complexity developed by classical composers: How
> many songs vary much from verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus? How
> many have really beautiful melodies rather than simple melodic hooks?
> How many have room to really develop a melody, let it grow from a simple
> idea into something big, beautiful, amazing even?
Bear with me as I attempt to sound now-ledge-able about something I really
don't know anything about...EXCEPT THAT I KNOW WHAT I LIKE.
Anyway, I think this paragraph is right on-the texture of the music is the
defining factor. Michael mentions that pop music is
verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus/chorus/verse/chorus. I just want
to add that I think this is a *beneficial* factor in making them pop
music. The repetition makes them more accessible. It's hard to sing/hum a
melody that has little or no melody without a significant amount of study.
It's easy to pick up a simple repetitive melody in the space of one listen
to the song. Very few (myself included) want to devote that much time to
such study. It may be that there are some people who can grasp
complicated melodies quickly (prolly those mathematical and physics
geniuses with gifts of "picturing" (only not really) patterns, serieses,
or tunes)). But the general populace can not.
I do differ on the assertion that most pop music has melodic hooks rather
than beautiful melodies. They are simple, they are repetitive, but I
think they can be beautiful as well.
Ben Wolfson
<stra...@email.unc.edu> wrote:
> How
>many songs vary much from verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus?
Put your chorus first and your song will be catchier!
Michael Straight
> music. The repetition makes them more accessible. It's hard to sing/hum a
> melody that has little or no melody without a significant amount of study.
> It's easy to pick up a simple repetitive melody in the space of one listen
> to the song. Very few (myself included) want to devote that much time to
> such study.
A lot of the best classical music melodies are not hard to listen
to. They may not be simple and repetitive, but you don't need to study to
appreciate their beauty. There are other aspects of classical music that
may take some time listening before you appreciate them, like when a piece
takes the melody and transforms it into something else, but the basic
melody is usually pretty easy to enjoy, if you like that sort of thing.
> I do differ on the assertion that most pop music has melodic hooks rather
> than beautiful melodies. They are simple, they are repetitive, but I
> think they can be beautiful as well.
I didn't mean to disparage pop melodies. It's just that classical
melodies are a different kind of beautiful that you don't get from pop
music. I enjoy rock/pop music, but its a different kind of enjoyment than
I get from Bach's Cello Gavottes or the final movement of the 6th
Brandenburg Concerto, or Faure's Sicilienne or the theme from Holst's
"Jupiter" or Schubert's Death and the Maiden Quartet (all accessible,
memorable, beautiful melodies).
Here's some sound clips from CDNOW:
6th Brandenburg Concerto:
http://cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=703438544/pagename=/RP/SHARE/soundclip.html/UPC=9031776112/disc=02/track=09/source=wmf
From this album:
http://cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=703438544/pagename=/RP/CDN/FIND/album.html/ArtistID=BACH+%5C+HARNONCOURT/ITEMID=123972
Faure's Sicilienne:
http://cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=703438544/pagename=/RP/SHARE/soundclip.html/UPC=9026680492/disc=01/track=08/source=wmf
From this album:
http://cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=703438544/pagename=/RP/CDN/FIND/album.html/artistid=FAURE+%5C+ISSERLIS+%5C+DEVOYON/itemid=336739
Gavotte from Bach's 6th Cello Sonata:
http://cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=703438544/pagename=/RP/SHARE/soundclip.html/UPC=9026614362/disc=02/track=17/source=wmf
From this album:
http://cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=703438544/pagename=/RP/CDN/CLASS/muzealbum.html/itemid=398171
Schubert's Death and the Maiden:
http://cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=703438544/pagename=/RP/SHARE/soundclip.html/UPC=2894461632/disc=01/track=02/source=wmf
http://cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=703438544/pagename=/RP/SHARE/soundclip.html/UPC=2894461632/disc=01/track=04/source=wmf
From this album:
http://cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=703438544/pagename=/RP/CDN/CLASS/muzealbum.html/itemid=128519
cave deum
Jorn Barger <jo...@enteract.com> wrote:
>1) I can tolerate almost all music, so long as it's not too repetitive--
>so why are virtually all radio stations predicated on
>several-times-a-day repetition?
Marketing. The songs are, effectively, ads for the radio station, the
band, the band's label, and the DJ.
>2) I really _tried_ to find something to like about classical music,
>because the classical stations are by far the least repetitive, but
>after hundreds of hours of listening it sounds more emotionally puerile
>than ever (nursery rhyme-y, cartoony). Is this a secret truth-- that
>classical-music lovers are twits?
It's possible but unlikely. But i'm not the right person to judge
classical music or its fans.
>3) Most surprising to me is that I'm starting to like top-40 hip-hop,
>like TLC and 3LW and even Destiny's Child, which I feel betrays my
>abstract non-commerical ideals. It seems to me they're really exploring
>new poetic territory, matching musical rhythms to speech rhythms. Am I
>going nuts?
Yes. Abso-freakin'-lutely. Look, even Janet Jackson's new stuff is
sucky and unimaginative. And none of the new Afro-girlie stuff can
compare to it ("Bootylicious"? the title alone is stab-yourself-in-
the-eyes bad, and the song is even worse). So slow down on the meth,
get John Paul Jones' _Zooma_, and forget MTV.
>4) I don't understand the difference between 'hip hop' and 'rap'. I
>never liked any rap, and I used to think 'hip hop' included Paula
>Abdul's "Straight Up" (which I loved, but which which doesn't sound like
>hip-hop anymore). Define 'hip hop'.
The lines have blurred. There really is no "rap" anymore. "Rap" was
NWA and Public Enemy. Anything that came after is not. I sure wish
Chuck D would get up and kick some sissy "keepin' it real" gangsta
wannabe ass. It's embarrassing.
I wouldn't know anything about 3) and 4) if it weren't for one of my
stepkids, who decided she likes this sort of crap, and she's a
classically trained musician who plays oboe and English horn. I just
don't understand it.
>5) I also love almost all trip-hop-- but nobody plays it. And is it
>musically related to hip-hop, or was that just a convenient pun?
The latter.
>6) Mystikal's "Danger". Will it still sound this good in 3001?
If you're still alive and still on massive amounts of crack, sure.
rone
i'm kidding. crack will be passé in 3001.
--
Looking for God's underpants since 1985. <ro...@ennui.org>
Matt McIrvin
wrote:
> i'm kidding. crack will be passé in 3001.
[Interior of Arco-Habitat 39B, Ganymede Altruity. Several hundred
silver-jumpsuit-clad ascetics line the interior of a cuboctahedron-
shaped chamber in shining white. Silver wires are connected to
each one at the base of the skull.]
ASCETIC 1138 I rejoice in my transhumanity!
ASCETIC 124C41+ I rejoice in your rejoicing!
ASCETIC 1138 I rejoice in your rejoicing at my rejoicing!
[SFX: Ding]
[A 900-FOOT STEVE JOBS materializes in the center of the chamber.]
STEVE JOBS GET A MAC!
ASCETIC 124C41+ I rejoice in your condescension!
ASCETIC 1138 Everything is perfect now!
[A BLONDE IN RED SHORTS bursts into the chamber directly
opposite our two ASCETICS and tosses a hammer at 900-FOOT
STEVE JOBS. The hammer hits STEVE JOBS in the middle of
the forehead, causing him to double over and exposing...]
ASCETIC 124C41+ CRACK!
ASCETIC 1138 CRACK!
ASCETIC 124C41+ I am revolted and horrified. I reject
transcendence and all associated states of
metahuman superconsciousness!
ASCETIC 1138 And where's our 2GHz Son of Pismo with stamped
enameled metal enclosures? I ask you!
ASCETIC 124C41+ BURN BABY BURN!
[The inhabitants of Arco-Habitat 39B break through the outer
shell and are blown out onto the airless, frigid surface of
Ganymede, surveyed only by the pitiless cyclopean eyeball of
the planet Jupiter. But then TOYNBEE RESURRECTS THE DEAD.]
--
Matt McIrvin
Whose Titan Elbow
GMT]
>
> I wouldn't know anything about 3) and 4) if it weren't for
> one of my stepkids, who decided she likes this sort of crap,
> and she's a classically trained musician who plays oboe and
> English horn. I just don't understand it.
Parents just don't understand! :::lafftrack::::
Ben Wolfson
>>5) I also love almost all trip-hop-- but nobody plays it. And is it
>>musically related to hip-hop, or was that just a convenient pun?
>
>The latter.
Trip hop is cabaret music for today.
Ben Wolfson
wrote:
>In article <rone.9j2jd0$89s$1...@ennui.org>, "cave deum" <^#*&$@ennui.org>
>wrote:
>
>> i'm kidding. crack will be passé in 3001.
>
>[Interior of Arco-Habitat 39B, Ganymede Altruity. Several hundred
>silver-jumpsuit-clad ascetics line the interior of a cuboctahedron-
>shaped chamber in shining white. Silver wires are connected to
>each one at the base of the skull.]
>
>ASCETIC 1138 I rejoice in my transhumanity!
>
>ASCETIC 124C41+ I rejoice in your rejoicing!
>
>ASCETIC 1138 I rejoice in your rejoicing at my rejoicing!
We have no need of weapons, for we wear protective herbs.
cave deum
Ben Wolfson <rumju...@cryptarchy.org> wrote:
>On 17 Jul 2001 16:57:20 -0700, "cave deum" <^#*&$@ennui.org> wrote:
>>>5) I also love almost all trip-hop-- but nobody plays it. And is it
>>>musically related to hip-hop, or was that just a convenient pun?
>>The latter.
>Trip hop is cabaret music for today.
"Life is a trip hop" isn't very catchy.
rone
b r e t t
>5) I also love almost all trip-hop-- but nobody plays it. And is it
>musically related to hip-hop, or was that just a convenient pun?
More the latter, I'd say. If I may make an annoyingly broad
generalization, trip hop is about a technological trick. Take
a human-played drum loop, play it back at 50% to 70% tempo
(with no pitch correction), and you're a bass line away from
trip hop.
Take the same drum loop and run it at 200% tempo, and you're
a bass line away from jungle. Yes, there are Great Artists
redefining rhythm blah blah blah, but 99% of it is some bald
English guy with bad teeth who hit the wrong key on the sampler
and decided the result sounded pretty keen. Why not get yourself
a copy of Acid and try it out? Then you can post mp3s. It's fun,
and it will irritate that tagutcow guy, which is also fun.
And Jorn: is Kate Bush dead? Or just her career?
b <- bald Texan with porcelain teeth
--
"They should be nude. What's the point? Why would you want to see
teenagers unless they're nude? And stupid. I like stupid, nude
teenagers." --John Waters
Jorn Barger
> And Jorn: is Kate Bush dead? Or just her career?
THE HOUNDS OF LOVE? THEY WERE HUNTING? AND THEY CAUGHT A FOX?
AND KATE BUSH FOUND IT? AND TOOK IT IN HER ARMS?
AND SOME FOXBLOOD GOT ON HER DRESS?
AND THE HOUNDS OF LOVE SMELLED THE FOXBLOOD?
So they tore her limb from limb.
--
http://www.robotwisdom.com/ "Relentlessly intelligent
yet playful, polymathic in scope of interests, minimalist
but user-friendly design." --Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel
b r e t t
Jorn Barger <jo...@enteract.com> wrote:
>THE HOUNDS OF LOVE? THEY WERE HUNTING?
WOOF WOOF WOOF!
__
__/o \_
\____ \
/ \
__ //\ \
If only I could __/o \-//--\ \_/
I'd make a deal with God --- \____ ___ \ |
And I'd get Him to swap || \ |\ |
Our places _|| _||_||
b
David DeLaney
WOOF!
> __
> __/o \_
> \____ \
> / \
> __ //\ \
>If only I could __/o \-//--\ \_/
>I'd make a deal with God --- \____ ___ \ |
>And I'd get Him to swap || \ |\ |
>Our places _|| _||_||
>b
Worst
haiku
ever!
Dave "5,5,4+? Oh well" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://panacea.phys.utk.edu/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ/ I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Carlos May
: Ben Wolfson <rumju...@cryptarchy.org> wrote:
:>Trip hop is cabaret music for today.
: "Life is a trip hop" isn't very catchy.
But wearing a condom is still a good idea.
-- F.
* Fro...@neosoft.com ** "The Information Super-Frog" [dibs] *
"Moral disaster is coming to hundreds of young girls through the
pathological, sex-exciting music of jazz orchestras." -- The Illinois
Vigilance Association * http://www.angelfire.com/la/carlosmay/
cave deum
Carlos May <fro...@starbase.neosoft.com> wrote:
>cave deum <^#*&$@ennui.org> wrote:
>: Ben Wolfson <rumju...@cryptarchy.org> wrote:
>:>Trip hop is cabaret music for today.
>: "Life is a trip hop" isn't very catchy.
>But wearing a condom is still a good idea.
They still don't fit over my nose, though.