A real tree?
Jab...@excite.com
It reports that God created the first human pair, Adam and Eve, and
gave them a beautiful garden home. He also laid this command upon them:
"From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as
for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it,
for in the day you eat from it you will positively die." (Gen.
2:16, 17) What was "the tree of the knowledge of good and bad,"
and what would eating of its fruit signify?
It was a literal tree, but God employed it for a symbolic purpose.
Because he called it "the tree of the knowledge of good and bad"
and because he commanded that the first human pair not eat from it, the
tree fittingly symbolized God's right to determine for humans what is
"good" (pleasing to God) and what is "bad" (displeasing to
God). The presence of this tree thus tested man's respect for God's
sovereignty. Sadly, the first human pair disobeyed God and ate of the
forbidden fruit. They failed this simple yet profound test of obedience
and appreciation.-Gen. 3:1-6.
This seemingly small act constituted rebellion against Jehovah's
sovereignty. How so? Understanding the way we humans are made is a key
to understanding the significance of what Adam and Eve did. When
Jehovah created the first human pair, he gave them a remarkable
gift-free will. Complementing this gift, Jehovah gave them mental
abilities that included the powers of perception, reason, and judgment.
(Heb. 5:14) They were not like mindless robots; nor were they like
animals, which act mainly on instinct. Their freedom, though, was
relative, subject to the rule of God's laws. (Compare Jeremiah
10:23, 24.) Adam and Eve chose to eat of the forbidden fruit. They
thus abused their freedom. What led them to this course?
The Bible explains that a spirit creature of God had taken a willful
course of opposition and resistance to God. This one, who later came to
be known as Satan, spoke through a serpent in Eden and led Eve and,
through her, Adam away from subjection to God's sovereignty. (Rev.
12:9) By eating of the tree, Adam and Eve placed their judgment above
God's, indicating that they wanted to judge for themselves what is
good and what is bad.-Gen. 3:22.
The issue thus raised was, Does Jehovah have the right to rule
humankind, and does he exercise his sovereignty in the best interests
of his subjects? This issue was clearly implied by the Serpent's
words to Eve: "Is it really so that God said you must not eat from
every tree of the garden?" The implication was that God was
wrongfully withholding something good from the woman and her
husband.-Gen. 3:1.
The rebellion in Eden raised another issue: Can humans under test be
faithful to God? This related issue was put in clear focus 24 centuries
later in connection with faithful Job. Satan, the 'voice' behind
the serpent, challenged Jehovah to His face, saying: "Is it for
nothing that Job has feared God?" Satan charged: "Have not you
yourself put up a hedge about him and about his house and about
everything that he has all around? The work of his hands you have
blessed, and his livestock itself has spread abroad in the earth."
Satan thus intimated that Job's uprightness was motivated by
self-interest. He further charged: "Skin in behalf of skin, and
everything that a man has he will give in behalf of his soul." Since,
as Jehovah had noted, 'there was no one like Job in the earth,'
Satan was really claiming that he could turn any servant of God away
from Him. (Job 1:8-11; 2:4) All of God's servants were thus
indirectly challenged regarding their integrity and loyalty to His
sovereignty.
Once raised, the issues had to be settled. The passage of time-about
6,000 years now-and the miserable failure of human governments
clearly demonstrate that humans need God's sovereignty. But do they
want it? Are there humans who will manifest heartfelt recognition of
Jehovah's righteous sovereignty? Yes! Jehovah has his witnesses! But
before we consider their testimony, let us first examine what is
involved in being a witness.
Dave Oldridge
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
> All,
>
> It reports that God created the first human pair, Adam and Eve, and
> gave them a beautiful garden home. He also laid this command upon them:
> "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as
> for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it,
> for in the day you eat from it you will positively die." (Gen.
> 2:16, 17) What was "the tree of the knowledge of good and bad,"
> and what would eating of its fruit signify?
>
> It was a literal tree, but God employed it for a symbolic purpose.
And you know this because:
(1) Some jerk in a three-piece suit said so on a Sunday morning.
(2) You had a hallucination and it makes you feel good.
(3) You're actually just a liar and don't know it at all.
This whole story (the fall) SCREAMS that it's allegory, but you heretics
all insist on treating it as a literal history. Which would be all
right, except you insist on teaching that interpretation as being
necessary to salvation (your heresy) and you run around the planet trying
to force it on everyone who doesn't share it, lying about anyone who has
physical evidence against your pathetic speculations.
Why are you so afraid of God? It's obvious you don't love Him, since you
violate the least of His commandments whenever it suits your purpose to
do so. If a spiritual being gave me that much trouble, I'd exorcise it.
But then maybe that IS the spirit you're following. Not God, but the
other one--that spirit of antichrist.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
Pastor Dave
thoughts, Dave Oldridge <dold...@leavethisoutshaw.ca>
spake thusly:
>Jab...@excite.com wrote in news:1108739422.608293.321120
>@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
>
>> All,
>>
>> It reports that God created the first human pair, Adam and Eve, and
>> gave them a beautiful garden home. He also laid this command upon them:
>> "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as
>> for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it,
>> for in the day you eat from it you will positively die." (Gen.
>> 2:16, 17) What was "the tree of the knowledge of good and bad,"
>> and what would eating of its fruit signify?
>>
>> It was a literal tree, but God employed it for a symbolic purpose.
>
>And you know this because:
>
> (1) Some jerk in a three-piece suit said so on a Sunday morning.
> (2) You had a hallucination and it makes you feel good.
> (3) You're actually just a liar and don't know it at all.
(4) Because the Bible says so. That's the one you keep
ignoring.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditations." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
Seeker
******And you know this because:
(1) Some jerk in a three-piece suit said so on a Sunday morning.
(2) You had a hallucination and it makes you feel good.
(3) You're actually just a liar and don't know it at all.
This whole story (the fall) SCREAMS that it's allegory, but you heretics
all insist on treating it as a literal history. Which would be all
right, except you insist on teaching that interpretation as being
necessary to salvation (your heresy) and you run around the planet trying
to force it on everyone who doesn't share it, lying about anyone who has
physical evidence against your pathetic speculations.
Why are you so afraid of God? It's obvious you don't love Him, since you
violate the least of His commandments whenever it suits your purpose to
do so. If a spiritual being gave me that much trouble, I'd exorcise it.
But then maybe that IS the spirit you're following. Not God, but the
other one--that spirit of antichrist.
>>>>> You dont seem to believe in GOD yourself kindly do not accuse others
>>>>> with your nonsense.
Genesis 3:17-19 ? Are you calling GOD a liar ?????
Do well to read the Bible and understand it before
accusing . Do you even know the name of the GOD
you pretend to believe in > Psalms 83:18.
SEEKER
"Dave Oldridge" <dold...@leavethisoutshaw.ca> wrote in message
news:Xns96014EEB2580D...@24.71.223.159...
John Ings
>Genesis 3:17-19 ? Are you calling GOD a liar ?????
No. Are you calling the Bible God?
>Do well to read the Bible and understand it before
>accusing .
Speak for yourself. All Dave said was that story was allegory, a fable
told to teach a lesson, not something to be taken literally. I think
he understands the Bible better than you do.
>Do you even know the name of the GOD
>you pretend to believe in
Yaweh.
Do you know his wife's name?
## FUNDAMENTALISM: Text without context.
Jon
> All,
>
> It reports that God created the first human pair, Adam and Eve, and
> gave them a beautiful garden home. He also laid this command upon them:
> "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as
> for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it,
> for in the day you eat from it you will positively die." (Gen.
> 2:16, 17)
> Sadly, the first human pair disobeyed God and ate of the
> forbidden fruit.
Did they die that day? If not, was God a liar or wrong?
Hi-GENES
<Jab...@excite.com> a known RACIST soulless REPROBATE AND SOCIOPATH wrote
in message news:1108739422.6...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> All,
>
> It reports that God created the first human pair, Adam and Eve, and
> gave them a beautiful garden home. He also laid this command upon them:
More illegal Cut & paste from the boring Watchtower literature. First
Jabriol spends a few hours at his local Camden NJ KH, then comes to Usenet
to encourage people to commit suicide, encourages men to beat women into
"submission," claims rape is normal, blamed his own daughter for being raped
at the age of 14... and worse.
--
Kimbro.....
"Jabriol wants to be loved; failing this, to be admired; failing this, to be
feared; failing even this, to be hated and despised. Jabriol wants to
arouse
some sort of feeling in people. The soul shrinks from the void and wants
contact at any price." ~ Hjalmar Soderberg ~
==========================================================
Hi-GENES
"Pastor Dave" <newsgr...@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message >
> (4) Because the Bible says so. That's the one you keep
> ignoring.
That's YOUR bible. Someone else's holy book may say something different.
Why try and force your beliefs down the throats of people living in the real
world? Keep your fantasy land to yourselves.
Kimbro....
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived."
-= Isaac Asimov =-
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~ }<{{{{{Ò> ~~~~ }<((({ö> ~~~~
The best defense to logic is ignorance
No-GENES
"Jon" <jd_w...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dd66d073.05021...@posting.google.com...
Doesn't matter since there is no "God."
--
Me...
The JWs keep saying it (Armageddon) is imminent, just a matter of time,
only a matter of weeks or months from the predicted date: 1874(+40),
1878(+40), 1910,
1914, 1915, 1916, 1917, 1918, 1922, 1925, 1940, 1945, 1975, 1999/2000...
LATEST DATE: 2034 Come get your predictions and palm read by the GB!
Just one WRONG date after another - they're truly inspired by *GASP* demons!
"If he is a false prophet (like the GB), his prophecy will fail to come to
pass."
(Watchtower, 5/15/30).
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Pastor Dave
deep thoughts, "Hi-GENES" <P@P> spake thusly:
>"Pastor Dave" <newsgr...@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message >
>> (4) Because the Bible says so. That's the one you keep
>> ignoring.
>====================
>That's YOUR bible.
Dave says it his too. So you have just proved that
your post is meant only to attack my faith. Goodbye.
Libertarius
Jab...@excite.com wrote:
> All,
>
> It reports that God created the first human pair, Adam and Eve, and
> gave them a beautiful garden home. He also laid this command upon them:
> "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as
> for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it,
> for in the day you eat from it you will positively die." (Gen.
> 2:16, 17) What was "the tree of the knowledge of good and bad,"
> and what would eating of its fruit signify?
>
> It was a literal tree,
===>So, far you are with the story. But then, here comes the Christian
SPIN:
> but God employed it for a symbolic purpose.
===>Nonsense. There was NOTHING "symbolic" about it.
The story says that YHWH himself admitted that by eating
the fruit of that tree, the humans "became like one of us",
i.e. like one of the ETs (Elohim, "gods", as in Chariots of the
Gods).
> Because he called it "the tree of the knowledge of good and bad"
===>He did not just "call it" that, the story says that is what that tree
WAS.
> and because he commanded that the first human pair not eat from it,
===>Because he wanted to keep them in IGNORANCE.
Did not wish them to have knowledge like that of the "gods".
> the
> tree fittingly symbolized
===>It did not "symbolize" ANYTHING.
It was a magic tree whose fruit conveyed knowledge of
all things ("good and evil", i.e. everything there was to know).
> God's right to determine for humans what is
> "good" (pleasing to God) and what is "bad" (displeasing to
> God).
===>NONSENSE.
As Heraclitus of Ephesus declared,
"To God all things are fair and good and right,
but men hold some things wrong and some right."
Why do you guys feel compelled to reinterpret that fine old fable
about the incompetence of YHWH the Extraterrestrial to give it a
Christian twist? -- L.
Libertarius
Dave Oldridge wrote:
> Jab...@excite.com wrote in news:1108739422.608293.321120
> @o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
>
> > All,
> >
> > It reports that God created the first human pair, Adam and Eve, and
> > gave them a beautiful garden home. He also laid this command upon them:
> > "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as
> > for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it,
> > for in the day you eat from it you will positively die." (Gen.
> > 2:16, 17) What was "the tree of the knowledge of good and bad,"
> > and what would eating of its fruit signify?
> >
> > It was a literal tree, but God employed it for a symbolic purpose.
>
> And you know this because:
>
> (1) Some jerk in a three-piece suit said so on a Sunday morning.
> (2) You had a hallucination and it makes you feel good.
> (3) You're actually just a liar and don't know it at all.
>
> This whole story (the fall) SCREAMS that it's allegory,
===>No, not even an "allegory. Not really.
It is a fable about the incompetence of the god of the Yahwists,
(as contrasted with the Queen of Heaven), being imposed on
a polytheistic nation.
(SEE: Jeremiah 44:17 -18 D-RV)
"But we will certainly do every word that shall proceed out of our own mouth,
to sacrifice to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings to her,
as we and our fathers have done,
our kings, and our princes in the cities of Juda,
and in the streets of Jerusalem:
and we were filled with bread,
and it was well with us, and we saw no evil.
But since we left off to offer sacrifice to the queen of heaven,
and to pour out drink offerings to her, we have wanted all things,
and have been consumed by the sword, and by famine." -- L.
Libertarius
Jon wrote:
===>YHWH the ET was incompetent, at least. -- L.
Libertarius
Pastor Dave wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:45:29 GMT, after pondering deep
> thoughts, Dave Oldridge <dold...@leavethisoutshaw.ca>
> spake thusly:
>
> >Jab...@excite.com wrote in news:1108739422.608293.321120
> >@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
> >
> >> All,
> >>
> >> It reports that God created the first human pair, Adam and Eve, and
> >> gave them a beautiful garden home. He also laid this command upon them:
> >> "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as
> >> for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it,
> >> for in the day you eat from it you will positively die." (Gen.
> >> 2:16, 17) What was "the tree of the knowledge of good and bad,"
> >> and what would eating of its fruit signify?
> >>
> >> It was a literal tree, but God employed it for a symbolic purpose.
> >
> >And you know this because:
> >
> > (1) Some jerk in a three-piece suit said so on a Sunday morning.
> > (2) You had a hallucination and it makes you feel good.
> > (3) You're actually just a liar and don't know it at all.
>
> (4) Because the Bible says so. That's the one you keep
> ignoring.
===>There's nothing like that in the Bible!
Where did you read that
"God employed it for a symbolic purpose"??? -- L.
jab...@fastmail.fm
different.
Why try and force your beliefs down the throats of people living in the
real
world? Keep your fantasy land to yourselves.
-----------> said by a person who is an Atheist, and don'r believe in
any Bible at all, thus a Carolbot reply.
raven1
>It was a literal tree, but God employed it for a symbolic purpose.
>Because he called it "the tree of the knowledge of good and bad"
>and because he commanded that the first human pair not eat from it, the
>tree fittingly symbolized God's right to determine for humans what is
>"good" (pleasing to God) and what is "bad" (displeasing to
>God).
And as Adam and Eve had no prior knowledge of Good or Evil before
eating of the tree, they would have had no way of knowing that it was
wrong to disobey God's command, which is where the whole story falls
apart.
raven1
<newsgr...@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>(4) Because the Bible says so.
So what?
Low-GENES
<jab...@fastmail.fm> a KNOWN RACIST and SOCIOPATHIC TROLL spewed vomit in
message news:1108768972.4...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Yep! Everyone's an atheist unless the serve the WTS/GB.... LOL!!! :-D In
any case, better an atheist than a sadistic, sociopathic, racist soulless
reprobate Jehovah's Witness such as yourself.
--
Lowwe.....
Low-GENES
"raven1" <quotht...@nevermore.com> wrote in message
news:ao8d11d3i8munm57p...@4ax.com...
But the fundies refuse to see this TRUTH! They can't accept it. They
insist in believing the bible is somehow WRONG and they already KNEW right
and wrong. Hey, some fundies believe Adam and Eve had education's equal to
a 4 year college degree.
--
Kimbro....
Yep, the sleazebags at the WTS added another 120 years to 1914. What a
hoot! :-D The poor misled JWs who were waiting for 1975 got the shaft,
then 2000, shafted again... now this. What happened to all their promised
and underlined scripture proving the generation who saw 1914 would not pass
away before "the end of this system of things?" And they claim a clear
direct line to Jehovah!!!
How can any rational person be so gullible as to swallow this obvious male
bovine excreta? This GB vomit....
=======================================
Dave Oldridge
> On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:45:29 GMT, after pondering deep
> thoughts, Dave Oldridge <dold...@leavethisoutshaw.ca>
> spake thusly:
>
>>Jab...@excite.com wrote in news:1108739422.608293.321120
>>@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> It reports that God created the first human pair, Adam and Eve, and
>>> gave them a beautiful garden home. He also laid this command upon
them:
>>> "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as
>>> for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from
it,
>>> for in the day you eat from it you will positively die." (Gen.
>>> 2:16, 17) What was "the tree of the knowledge of good and bad,"
>>> and what would eating of its fruit signify?
>>>
>>> It was a literal tree, but God employed it for a symbolic purpose.
>>
>>And you know this because:
>>
>> (1) Some jerk in a three-piece suit said so on a Sunday morning.
>> (2) You had a hallucination and it makes you feel good.
>> (3) You're actually just a liar and don't know it at all.
>
> (4) Because the Bible says so. That's the one you keep
> ignoring.
The Bible does NOT say so. You're adding your own ideas to scripture
again. The Bible gives us the story. It does not tell us whether it's
history or allegory. YOU tell us it's history. But you do not make much
sense. And the text actually SCREAMS allegory, but you're not really
listening to the text, only to the reflection of your own ego in the
mirror of what passes for your mind.
Dave Oldridge
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
It is not belief in a book that makes a person a theist. It is belief in a
god (or gods).
Dave Oldridge
news:8vqRd.423470$6l.388632@pd7tw2no:
>> It was a literal tree, but God employed it for a symbolic purpose.
>
> ******And you know this because:
>
> (1) Some jerk in a three-piece suit said so on a Sunday morning.
> (2) You had a hallucination and it makes you feel good.
> (3) You're actually just a liar and don't know it at all.
>
> This whole story (the fall) SCREAMS that it's allegory, but you
> heretics all insist on treating it as a literal history. Which would
> be all right, except you insist on teaching that interpretation as
> being necessary to salvation (your heresy) and you run around the
> planet trying to force it on everyone who doesn't share it, lying
> about anyone who has physical evidence against your pathetic
> speculations.
>
> Why are you so afraid of God? It's obvious you don't love Him, since
> you violate the least of His commandments whenever it suits your
> purpose to do so. If a spiritual being gave me that much trouble, I'd
> exorcise it. But then maybe that IS the spirit you're following. Not
> God, but the other one--that spirit of antichrist.
>
>>>>>> You dont seem to believe in GOD yourself kindly do not accuse
>>>>>> others with your nonsense.
> Genesis 3:17-19 ? Are you calling GOD a liar ?????
Nope... I leave that to young-earth creationists who pretend that God
wrote Genesis and then pretend that it's literal history.
> Do well to read the Bible and understand it before
> accusing . Do you even know the name of the GOD
> you pretend to believe in
> Psalms 83:18.
Yep.....better than YOU do because I know what it means and how to
actually USE it. And no, I will NOT explain it to infidels.
Shaqad
You are a Tree. You are expected to drop fruit and shine.
Jesus planted seeds and the grass grew upon the Earth.
The Oil of the Olive Tree is sealed, set apart.
The Wine of the vine and Body of Christ is sealed, set apart.
The Fields are ripe and all plants grow togather.
Mary had a Mass for Christ and You are a Tree.
Christopher A. Lee
Moron.
Terry/Anti
"Dave Oldridge" <dold...@leavethisoutshaw.ca> wrote in message
news:Xns96014EEB2580D...@24.71.223.159...
The tree of knowledge of good and evil is a symbol of Satan. The fruit is a
symbol of the knowledge of good and evil. The tree of life is a symbol of
Jesus.
Gramps
Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic)
news:1108776753.9...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
If we are just trees then why does God punish us?
What kind of dork goes around punishing trees?
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved - to
others, nor disproved (agnostic).
History books that contain no lies are extremely dull. The christian bible
is a very interesting book indeed.
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
josephus
Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic) wrote:
> "Shaqad" <sha...@netzero.com> wrote in message
> news:1108776753.9...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
>>Christ is a must and you are a Tree!
>>
>>You are a Tree. You are expected to drop fruit and shine.
>>Jesus planted seeds and the grass grew upon the Earth.
>>The Oil of the Olive Tree is sealed, set apart.
>>The Wine of the vine and Body of Christ is sealed, set apart.
>>The Fields are ripe and all plants grow togather.
>>
>>Mary had a Mass for Christ and You are a Tree.
>
>
>
> If we are just trees then why does God punish us?
> What kind of dork goes around punishing trees?
>
>
I recall that the roman cross was called a tree. So they are implicitly
telling us we are the curse that killed Christ. That is a dirty trick
because it is an insult. None has deserved that curse and insult. I
think the writer was most unchristian. It is the same people that
espouse charity and practice discrimination. These folks cant be
bothered to look out for and care for their fellow man. I am not
opposed to religion, I am opposed to just this kind of unkindness.
josephus
Milan
> Jehovah has his witnesses! But
> before we consider their testimony, let us first examine what is
> involved in being a witness.
Well, from your post it seems clear that a lobotomy must be involved.
regards
Milan
jab...@fastmail.fm
>history or allegory.
If Adam and Eve is a myth.. or an Allegory infusion based on Jewish
mystism, then Jesus statement to the effect is a lie.
therfore Jesus is a liar. Id that how modern Christians portray Jesus
today?
jab...@fastmail.fm
>history or allegory.
If Adam and Eve is a myth.. or an Allegory infusion based on Jewish
mystism, then Jesus statement to the effect is a lie.
therfore Jesus is a liar. Is that how modern Christians portray Jesus
today?
jab...@fastmail.fm
this been discussed in another thread. and your argument lack logic.
God told them not to eat from it.
eat from that tree.. bad... death.
and they ate.. they died..
you would think per your comment that adam and eve was mindless apes.
jab...@fastmail.fm
Low-GENES wrote:
> --
> Kimbro....
> Yep, the sleazebags at the WTS added another 120 years to 1914
really.. and you have this writen down where exactly? I can not find
this in any of the literature.
Would be nice to have some sort of watchtower quote.
notice what was recently written about carol in Rec.ponds
Carol/Yarrow/windsong seems to have a track record of lying on the
healths news groups just as she does in arjw. and now she hides behind
remailers, because she has been warned by her ISP.. no matter
Carol has been caught in various vicious lies all over including the
healths groups a google search on Carol/Yarrow/windsong will prove
this..., her new intent to slander JW's
Before you reply, you may want to ask her a few things or only one.
And yet you elect tothrow stones at me..Didn't anyone tell you if you
live in a glass house not to throw stones.......
_Where does she get her information?
_Can her information be verified?
_Is the information up to date?
_What is the purpose of her post? To present reliable facts or sling
mud on
a religious organization in good standing in almost every country in
the
world?
Ask her for evidence of her claims before proceeding with your
conversation
with her, if not you may be end up wasting your time on discussing
subjects
based on fraudulent and fabricated information. Therefore
participating with
her attempt at slander, and distributing false information elsewhere,
may
make you a lying fool as well.. Why throw Pearls at swine?
Facts about Carol:
*She can never present evidence.
*she never reveal the source of her info(because there is none). Her
common
reply, is
"everybody already knows". If everybody knew, why bring it up?
*She always hide her identity. And change her header to avoid
killfiles.
*She cuts and paste, rewrite postings, and will even forge e-mail
addreses
which her ISP allows her to do.
And if you don't belive me...just read her reply on this thread..
She can't resists...
She knows Jabriol is always right.
If you want to get rid of Carol, tell her to go home and service her
husband, like any decent honorable housewife would.
John Ings
>>The Bible gives us the story. It does not tell us whether it's
>>history or allegory.
>
>If Adam and Eve is a myth.. or an Allegory infusion based on Jewish
>mystism, then Jesus statement to the effect is a lie.
Jesus statement or a Gospelwriter's claim of what Jesus said?
>therfore Jesus is a liar.
Or the Gospel writer is.
## Religentem esse oportet; religiosum nefas.
Milan
<jab...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1108831354.1...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Or Jesus never existed and the evangelists made the story up, or they
combined several stories or embellished some old traditions, or whatever.
Only a complete nutcase would believe in a literal genesis.
regards
Milan
Milan
"John Ings" <noda...@spam.org> wrote in message
news:gcec11l1cbm1mv4gb...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 18:30:28 GMT, "Seeker" <si...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Genesis 3:17-19 ? Are you calling GOD a liar ?????
>
>
> >Do well to read the Bible and understand it before
> >accusing .
>
> told to teach a lesson, not something to be taken literally. I think
> he understands the Bible better than you do.
>
The Bible was never meant as a book of metaphors or allegories. It is read
that way by modern Christians today because of the long battle between
science and religion, with the latter constantly on the losing side. It was
a compromise they had to swallow in order to avoid complete intellectual
suicide.
regards
Milan
Pastor Dave
"For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the
sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh
day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and
hallowed it." - Exodus 20:11
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditations." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
By-GENES
> >history or allegory.
>
> If Adam and Eve is a myth.. or an Allegory infusion based on Jewish
> mystism, then Jesus statement to the effect is a lie.
$$ Jesus believed what he was told, just like YOU believe what the WTS/GB
tells YOU.
> therfore Jesus is a liar. Id that how modern Christians portray Jesus
> today?
$$ Jesus retold the story he was told and believed. Why wouldn't he
believe it in those days of ignorance and superstition? That doesn't make
him a liar.
"The test of every religious (like the Watchtower Society), political,
or educational system is the man (like Jabriol) that it forms." -
~ Henri Amiel ~
All trees (like the WTS) can be judged by the fruit (Jabriols) they produce.
=================================================
By-GENES
<jab...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1108831683.1...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> this been discussed in another thread. and your argument lack logic.
> God told them not to eat from it.
>
> eat from that tree.. bad... death.
>
> and they ate.. they died..
>
> you would think per your comment that adam and eve was mindless apes.
That would have made no sense to them since they never saw anyone "DIE."
Not even having parents they couldn't have had much more intelligence than
the apes. Are you going to claim they had the equivalent of a 4 year
college degree?
--
Kimbro DeProgrammer # 664
Here you will find clinical studies proving that the Jehovah's Witnesses
exhibit rates of mental illness between four and forty times the average
for the population at large:
http://google.com/groups?selm=D3J0QI5Z3823...@anonymous.poster
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By-GENES
<jab...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1108831993.5...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> Low-GENES wrote:
> > > --
> > Kimbro....
> > Yep, the sleazebags at the WTS added another 120 years to 1914
>
> really.. and you have this writen down where exactly? I can not find
> this in any of the literature.
Then Google it. It's no secret. They're using more weaselwording now when
they make a prediction. Makes it easier for them to back-peddle when the
predicted date is once again 100% WRONG!
Kimbro.....
The JWs keep saying it (Armageddon) is imminent, just a matter of time,
only a matter of weeks or months from the predicted date: 1874(+40),
1878(+40), 1910,
1914, 1915, 1916, 1917, 1918, 1922, 1925, 1940, 1945, 1975, 1999/2000...
LATEST DATE: 2034 Come get your predictions and palm read by the GB!
Just one WRONG date after another - they're truly inspired by *GASP* demons!
"If he is a false prophet (like the GB), his prophecy will fail to come to
pass."
(Watchtower, 5/15/30).
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
By-GENES
> jab...@fastmail.fm KNOWN SOCIOPATH and RACIST wrote in
news:1108768972.460662.132870
> > -----------> said by a person who is an Atheist, and don'r believe in
> > any Bible at all, thus a Carolbot reply.
>
> It is not belief in a book that makes a person a theist. It is belief in
a
> god (or gods).
Ignore Jabriol. He has a new obsession - the Carolbot. LOL!!! :-D
Jabriol doesn't know the difference between an agnostic and an atheist.
Jabriol is a CREATIONIST.
--
Kimbro.....
Numbers 31:17-18 God commands Moses to kill all the Medianite people
including children and women. To top it off he commands that the virgins be
saved for later raping (concubinage & forced marriage) by Moses' soldiers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.jwfiles.com/index.htm
By-GENES
"Pastor Dave" <newsgr...@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:f32f11lth7stb0dso...@4ax.com...
> "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the
> sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh
> day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and
> hallowed it." - Exodus 20:11
LOL!!! That's NOT what the evidence shows. :-) It's but one story among
many.
--
Pastor Kimbro.........
"Without faith we might relapse into scientific or rational thinking,
which leads by a slippery slope toward constitutional democracy."
-- Robert Anton Wilson
==
Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere may
be happy.
http://members.aol.com/beyondjw/1975.htm
Dave Oldridge
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
>>The Bible gives us the story. It does not tell us whether it's
>>history or allegory.
>
> If Adam and Eve is a myth.. or an Allegory infusion based on Jewish
> mystism, then Jesus statement to the effect is a lie.
Jesus used parable and metaphor throughout His ministry. Thus you
literalists think He is a a liar.
>
> therfore Jesus is a liar. Id that how modern Christians portray Jesus
> today?
Jesus is not the liar. It's those who misrepresent His meaning who are the
liars.
Dave Oldridge
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
Please post the text where Jesus says that this is NOT an allegory.
Dave Oldridge
OK, but that's not Jesus, that's Moses, citing (according to myth)
himself.
Dave Oldridge
news:37pfd2F...@individual.net:
Actually, the PRIMARY purpose of Genesis was to provide a kind of title
deed to the Holy Land. There was no real intent to describe any kind of
literal history, though many have claimed it. Moreover, the work itself
is a collation of earlier works (with the collation probably performed by
Ezra). In its present form, it dates from about the 7th century BCE.
Pastor Dave
So you don't believe it then?
Pastor Dave
>jab...@fastmail.fm wrote in news:1108831373.527617.219240
>@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
>
>>>The Bible gives us the story. It does not tell us whether it's
>>>history or allegory.
>>
>> If Adam and Eve is a myth.. or an Allegory infusion based on Jewish
>> mystism, then Jesus statement to the effect is a lie.
>>
>> therfore Jesus is a liar. Is that how modern Christians portray Jesus
>> today?
>
>Please post the text where Jesus says that this is NOT an allegory.
Don't need to. You need to prove it is.
Pastor Dave
>jab...@fastmail.fm wrote in news:1108831354.191759.208210
>@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
>
>>>The Bible gives us the story. It does not tell us whether it's
>>>history or allegory.
>>
>> If Adam and Eve is a myth.. or an Allegory infusion based on Jewish
>> mystism, then Jesus statement to the effect is a lie.
>
>Jesus used parable and metaphor throughout His ministry. Thus you
>literalists think He is a a liar.
He told us when He was doing that. But I guess when He
said that if someone lusts after a woman, he has
committed adultery in his heart, that it was just a
metaphor and we can do it anyway.
>> therfore Jesus is a liar. Id that how modern Christians portray Jesus
>> today?
>
>Jesus is not the liar. It's those who misrepresent His meaning who are the
>liars.
"And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read,
that he which made them at the beginning made them male
and female," - Matthew 19:4
I guess he meant they were apes. <chuckle>
Libertarius
Terry/Anti wrote:
===>And you are a symbol of IGNORANCE. -- L.
Libertarius
"Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic)" wrote:
> "Shaqad" <sha...@netzero.com> wrote in message
> news:1108776753.9...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> > Christ is a must and you are a Tree!
> >
> > You are a Tree. You are expected to drop fruit and shine.
> > Jesus planted seeds and the grass grew upon the Earth.
> > The Oil of the Olive Tree is sealed, set apart.
> > The Wine of the vine and Body of Christ is sealed, set apart.
> > The Fields are ripe and all plants grow togather.
> >
> > Mary had a Mass for Christ and You are a Tree.
>
> If we are just trees then why does God punish us?
> What kind of dork goes around punishing trees?
===>According to the Gospels, Jesus did, when he got
angry with a fig tree.
He punished it because there were no figs on it,
even though he knew, or should have known it was
out of season!
Mark 11:13-14 says:
Seeing at a distance a fig tree in leaf,
He went to see if perhaps He would find anything on it;
and when He came to it, He found nothing but leaves,
for it was not the season for figs.
He said to it, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again!"
How do you like THAT? -- L.
Libertarius
jab...@fastmail.fm wrote:
> >The Bible gives us the story. It does not tell us whether it's
> >history or allegory.
>
> If Adam and Eve is a myth.. or an Allegory infusion based on Jewish
> mystism, then Jesus statement to the effect is a lie.
===>Not necessarily.
He was brought up believing the ancient stories of his people.
> therfore Jesus is a liar. Id that how modern Christians portray Jesus
> today?
===>I don't think anyone would call him a "liar" for making that
mistake. -- L.
Libertarius
jab...@fastmail.fm wrote:
===>No, they did NOT die.
It was just an empty threat by a being who wanted to keep
them in ignorance.
That is the whole point of the story.
They listened to the talking snake, and became knowers
of good and evil, jut like the ELOHIM, according to the statement
made by YHWH himself!
And they LIVED for hundreds of years after that incident.
Libertarius
John Ings wrote:
> On 19 Feb 2005 08:42:34 -0800, jab...@fastmail.fm wrote:
>
> >>The Bible gives us the story. It does not tell us whether it's
> >>history or allegory.
> >
> >If Adam and Eve is a myth.. or an Allegory infusion based on Jewish
> >mystism, then Jesus statement to the effect is a lie.
>
> Jesus statement or a Gospelwriter's claim of what Jesus said?
>
> >therfore Jesus is a liar.
>
> Or the Gospel writer is.
===>Not a liar, just a fictional story teller.
What's wrong with that?
The LIARS are those who claim it is not a fictional story
but the "Word of God". -- L.
Libertarius
Pastor Dave wrote:
===>Indeed, the Hebrew writers needed to justify their observance
of the Babylonian holy Sabbath (celebrating the quarters of the Moon).
In the above passage, one writer attributes it to "creation".
But in another passage, another writer attributes it to the Exodus!
SEE: Deuteronomy 5:15
`You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt,
and the LORD your God brought you out of there by a mighty hand
and by an outstretched arm;
therefore the LORD your God commanded you to observe the sabbath day."
You guys need to know your Bible a little better! -- L.
John Ings
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
>> Jesus statement or a Gospelwriter's claim of what Jesus said?
>>
>> >therfore Jesus is a liar.
>>
>> Or the Gospel writer is.
>
>===>Not a liar, just a fictional story teller.
>What's wrong with that?
You're saying the Gospel writer didn't intend his readers to believe
Jesus was a real person?
I think he did. He may have believed so himself and felt sure that
Jesus would have said such things, so he claimed Jesus did without a
twinge of conscience.
But it is still a lie.
## The Bible has suffered more at the hands
## of its friends than its enemies.
Libertarius
Dave Oldridge wrote:
> jab...@fastmail.fm wrote in news:1108831354.191759.208210
> @o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
>
> >>The Bible gives us the story. It does not tell us whether it's
> >>history or allegory.
> >
> > If Adam and Eve is a myth.. or an Allegory infusion based on Jewish
> > mystism, then Jesus statement to the effect is a lie.
>
> Jesus used parable and metaphor throughout His ministry. Thus you
> literalists think He is a a liar.
> >
> > therfore Jesus is a liar. Id that how modern Christians portray Jesus
> > today?
>
> Jesus is not the liar. It's those who misrepresent His meaning who are the
> liars.
===>Jesus is a CHARACTER in a set of STORIES.
Possibly based on someone who actually lived, but that is
irrelevant.
The storytellers used their own imagination and creativity to
write the Gospels.
The LIAR is anyone who calls their stories the "Word of God". -- L.
Weatherwax
"Dave Oldridge" <dold...@leavethisoutshaw.ca> wrote
>
> It is not belief in a book that makes a person a theist. It
> is belief in a god (or gods).
Or a belief in an icon or idol, which is what the Bible has become.
--
Wax
Masked Avenger
> Christ is a must and you are a Tree!
>
> You are a Tree. You are expected to drop fruit and shine.
> Jesus planted seeds and the grass grew upon the Earth.
> The Oil of the Olive Tree is sealed, set apart.
> The Wine of the vine and Body of Christ is sealed, set apart.
> The Fields are ripe and all plants grow togather.
>
> Mary had a Mass for Christ and You are a Tree.
>
And I am a dog..... and you know what we use trees for ......
--
MA - Yoiks......and AWAY !
Does Schroedinger's cat have 18 half lives ?
jabr...@excite.com
of course not, because it does not exist. If you can't quote a
watchtower source.. your accusation is.. as always a lie.
jabr...@excite.com
It was just an empty threat by a being who wanted to keep
them in ignorance.
That is the whole point of the story.
They listened to the talking snake, and became knowers
of good and evil, jut like the ELOHIM, according to the statement
made by YHWH himself!
And they LIVED for hundreds of years after that incident.
--------------> you would not know this, because to you the whole thing
is false.
~ oOo ~
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:4217E7D9.1AD68DC1@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
But the fundies will say, "But, but,... but... they didn't live FOREVER!
They only lived for hundreds of years."
--
Kimbro.......
On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 05:56:15 -0600, bde...@webtv.net (Boydette) wrote:
What its like to be "mind controlled"all your life???? I thought this
was a support group for people damaged by the JWs teachings??......I am
a classic example...learn from me....Boydette
===================================
~ oOo ~
"Pastor Dave" <newsgr...@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:rjmf115qrisk1f5jk...@4ax.com...
> He told us when He was doing that. But I guess when He
> said that if someone lusts after a woman, he has
> committed adultery in his heart, that it was just a
> metaphor and we can do it anyway.
===========================
Lust after? How do you stop yourself from being attracted to a beautiful
and desirable women? Did he expect you to castrate yourself? Poke your
eyes out? Quit your job and leave town? As long as one doesn't ACT on
these attractions there is no harm done. If you blind yourself and castrate
yourself you are of little use to your wife and family.
--
Bower....
Subject: The (NON) Qualifications Of The Translators Of The NWT
Fred Franz: 2 Credit Hours Bible Greek, 21 Credit Hours Classical Greek,
University of Cincinnati, Dropped out junior year.
Nathan Knorr: None
Milton Henschel: None
Albert Schroeder: None
Karl Klein: None
George Gangas: None
~~~ }<(((({O> ~~~ }<{{{{(o> ~~~ }<(((({0> ~~~ }<{{{{{(ô> ~~~
John Baker
>Christ is a must and you are a Tree!
>
>You are a Tree. You are expected to drop fruit and shine.
>Jesus planted seeds and the grass grew upon the Earth.
>The Oil of the Olive Tree is sealed, set apart.
>The Wine of the vine and Body of Christ is sealed, set apart.
>The Fields are ripe and all plants grow togather.
>
>Mary had a Mass for Christ and You are a Tree.
That makes absolutely no fucking sense at all. Which, considering the
source, isn't really surprising.....
Pastor Dave
deep thoughts, "~ oOo ~" <P@P> spake thusly:
>
>"Pastor Dave" <newsgr...@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:rjmf115qrisk1f5jk...@4ax.com...
>
>> He told us when He was doing that. But I guess when He
>> said that if someone lusts after a woman, he has
>> committed adultery in his heart, that it was just a
>> metaphor and we can do it anyway.
>===========================
>Lust after? How do you stop yourself from being attracted to a beautiful
>and desirable women? Did he expect you to castrate yourself? Poke your
>eyes out? Quit your job and leave town? As long as one doesn't ACT on
>these attractions there is no harm done. If you blind yourself and castrate
>yourself you are of little use to your wife and family.
Some people can exert control. Of course for the
liberal, no such thing exists, while at the same time,
they preach there is no excuse for raping a woman. You
contradict yourself, when you say, "Go ahead and lust
after her all you want and it will never lead to
actions". That's what you're saying, whether you admit
it or not. People who spend their time lusting, tend
to spend their time violating, in some manner or
another. Whether you believe it or not, you can look
away.
Karen
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 20:47:30 -0600, after pondering
> deep thoughts, "~ oOo ~" <P@P> spake thusly:
>
> >
> >"Pastor Dave" <newsgr...@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> >news:rjmf115qrisk1f5jk...@4ax.com...
> >
> >> He told us when He was doing that. But I guess when He
> >> said that if someone lusts after a woman, he has
> >> committed adultery in his heart, that it was just a
> >> metaphor and we can do it anyway.
> >===========================
> >Lust after? How do you stop yourself from being attracted to a beautiful
> >and desirable women? Did he expect you to castrate yourself? Poke your
> >eyes out? Quit your job and leave town? As long as one doesn't ACT on
> >these attractions there is no harm done. If you blind yourself and
castrate
> >yourself you are of little use to your wife and family.
> Some people can exert control. Of course for the
> liberal, no such thing exists,
## So only liberals are criminals, murderers and rapists? Since when?
while at the same time,
> they preach there is no excuse for raping a woman.
## No there isn't and it has nothing to do with being a liberal.
You
> contradict yourself, when you say, "Go ahead and lust
> after her all you want and it will never lead to
> actions".
## What would you do? Move to another town - or castrate yourself? I
didn't say sleep with her. Being attracted to someone of the opposite sex
is NORMAL!
That's what you're saying,
## No, that's what your DIRTY mind is thinking.
whether you admit
> it or not. People who spend their time lusting, tend
> to spend their time violating,
## So you were castrated so as not to see and be attracted to attractive
women? Or did you donate your eyes to science?
in some manner or
> another. Whether you believe it or not, you can look
> away.
## Just answer the questions. Were you castrated or blinded so as to not
see and be attracted to women?
--
Kimmy....
The JWs keep saying it (Armageddon) is imminent, just a matter of time,
only a matter of weeks or months from the predicted date: 1874(+40),
1878(+40), 1910,
1914, 1915, 1916, 1917, 1918, 1922, 1925, 1940, 1945, 1975, 1999/2000...
LATEST DATE: 2034 Come get your predictions and palm read by the GB!
Just one WRONG date after another - they're truly inspired by *GASP* demons!
"If he is a false prophet (like the GB), his prophecy will fail to come to
pass."
(Watchtower, 5/15/30).
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Pastor Dave
deep thoughts, "Karen" <Pn@nP> spake thusly:
Another atheist moron.
Masked Avenger
jabr...@excite.com
Terry/Anti
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
It takes one to know one and you are an expert.
Gramps
Terry/Anti
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
Are they alive now? No. Then they died. I see no time limit in YHWH's
statement.
Gramps
Milan
> jab...@fastmail.fm wrote in news:1108831354.191759.208210
> @o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
>
> >>The Bible gives us the story. It does not tell us whether it's
> >>history or allegory.
> >
> > If Adam and Eve is a myth.. or an Allegory infusion based on Jewish
> > mystism, then Jesus statement to the effect is a lie.
>
> Jesus used parable and metaphor throughout His ministry. Thus you
> literalists think He is a a liar.
> >
Of course Jesus used parables to convey his message. But do you really think
that Jesus (and his contemporaries) understood Genesis as a metaphor? I
think that the evidence is rather clear that they did not.
regards
Milan
Bob Crowley
As Creator He had power to do what He liked. However He was making a
dual statement, for a reason. The action was not merely pernicious.
First He was demonstrating His power to His disciples, who later
reported what they had seen, in that the tree had withered to the
roots overnight, which meant His word in this case was a more potent
herbicide than that of any tree poison we have, even today.
Secondly He was demonstrating what happens to those who bear no
spiritual fruit. It was an analogy, which the unfortunate fig tree
happened to demonstrate.
Thirdly it also demonstrated that while most of His miracles involved
healing, He also had the power to destroy.
How many trees die every day around the world today, and how offended
are you by their "natural" deaths? If you're not offended by their
deaths, why are you offended by this one? What about a farmer who
cuts down a tree because it "bears no fruit"?
I doubt if He was particularly upset by the fig tree. Frankly it was
a parable for Israel, which would be destroyed in a generation, and
also for those who reject Him.
Bob Crowley.
Dave Oldridge
news:4217E71F.236D5425@Nothing_But_The.Truth:
Kenosis implies that He would only transcend the limitations of His
culture when it was really relevant and only through direct prayer.
Dave Oldridge
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 23:06:29 GMT, after pondering deep
> thoughts, Dave Oldridge <dold...@leavethisoutshaw.ca>
> spake thusly:
>
>>jab...@fastmail.fm wrote in news:1108831373.527617.219240
>>@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>>>The Bible gives us the story. It does not tell us whether it's
>>>>history or allegory.
>>>
>>> If Adam and Eve is a myth.. or an Allegory infusion based on Jewish
>>> mystism, then Jesus statement to the effect is a lie.
>>>
>>> therfore Jesus is a liar. Is that how modern Christians portray Jesus
>>> today?
>>
>>Please post the text where Jesus says that this is NOT an allegory.
>
> Don't need to. You need to prove it is.
Nope....the literal-history interpretation flies in the face of observed
fact. That, in itself, implies that a more symbolic interpretation is
warranted. But then, you see, I'm not bound by your bibliolatrous ideas
at all. Genesis is not included as a literal history so much as for a
COMPLETE history of the Jewish experience, of which it forms an integral
and important part.
Like most creationists, though, you do not see God's hand in scripture
and you deny it in nature. Instead you use it to promote your own ego to
divine status. It's narcissism at root.
Dave Oldridge
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 23:05:17 GMT, after pondering deep
> thoughts, Dave Oldridge <dold...@leavethisoutshaw.ca>
> spake thusly:
>
>>jab...@fastmail.fm wrote in news:1108831354.191759.208210
>>@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>>>The Bible gives us the story. It does not tell us whether it's
>>>>history or allegory.
>>>
>>> If Adam and Eve is a myth.. or an Allegory infusion based on Jewish
>>> mystism, then Jesus statement to the effect is a lie.
>>
>>Jesus used parable and metaphor throughout His ministry. Thus you
>>literalists think He is a a liar.
>
> He told us when He was doing that. But I guess when He
> said that if someone lusts after a woman, he has
> committed adultery in his heart, that it was just a
> metaphor and we can do it anyway.
Just because something is a metaphor and not literal history does not
excuse us from following the moral teachings conveyed.
>>> therfore Jesus is a liar. Id that how modern Christians portray
>>> Jesus today?
>>Jesus is not the liar. It's those who misrepresent His meaning who
>>are the liars.
> "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read,
> that he which made them at the beginning made them male
> and female," - Matthew 19:4
OK, so what part of this says that what they read was a literal history?
> I guess he meant they were apes. <chuckle>
Well, they were. And so was He and so are we.
We are apes, we are primates, we are mammals, we are animals. In every
meaningful biological sense we fit these categories.
Dave Oldridge
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 23:07:15 GMT, after pondering deep
> thoughts, Dave Oldridge <dold...@leavethisoutshaw.ca>
> spake thusly:
>
>>Pastor Dave <newsgr...@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in
>>news:f32f11lth7stb0dso...@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 01:16:05 GMT, after pondering deep
>>> thoughts, Dave Oldridge <dold...@leavethisoutshaw.ca>
>>> spake thusly:
>>>
>>>>Pastor Dave <newsgr...@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in
>>>>news:pt4c1155b7u86403n...@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:45:29 GMT, after pondering deep
>>>>> thoughts, Dave Oldridge <dold...@leavethisoutshaw.ca>
>>>>> spake thusly:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Jab...@excite.com wrote in news:1108739422.608293.321120
>>>>>>@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It reports that God created the first human pair, Adam and Eve,
>>>>>>> and gave them a beautiful garden home. He also laid this command
>>>>>>> upon
>>>>them:
>>>>>>> "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But
>>>>>>> as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not
>>>>>>> eat from
>>>>it,
>>>>>>> for in the day you eat from it you will positively die." (Gen.
>>>>>>> 2:16, 17) What was "the tree of the knowledge of good and bad,"
>>>>>>> and what would eating of its fruit signify?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It was a literal tree, but God employed it for a symbolic
>>>>>>> purpose.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And you know this because:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (1) Some jerk in a three-piece suit said so on a Sunday morning.
>>>>>> (2) You had a hallucination and it makes you feel good.
>>>>>> (3) You're actually just a liar and don't know it at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> (4) Because the Bible says so. That's the one you keep
>>>>> ignoring.
>>>>
>>>>The Bible does NOT say so. You're adding your own ideas to
>>>>scripture again.
>>>
>>> "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the
>>> sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh
>>> day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and
>>> hallowed it." - Exodus 20:11
>>
>>OK, but that's not Jesus, that's Moses, citing (according to myth)
>>himself.
>
> So you don't believe it then?
Why should I believe that Genesis is literal history? Because YOU say
so? Because Moses said so? God did not say so to ME. And He has had
plenty to say to me over the years and lots of opportunity to correct
this error that you claim I'm making. Instead, He has chosen to correct
other errors, including some that you WANT me to make.
When your religious dogma requires you to lie about science, then you can
be sure that there is something wrong with your religious dogma.
And don't tell me there's something wrong with the science. You have yet
to show that there is ANYTHING wrong with it other than the fact that it
proves that you are a FALSE PROPHET!
That's not necessarily a bad thing. Where's the evil in it?
robpar
wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Genesis 2
2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and
breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living
soul.
2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he
put the man whom he had formed.
2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is
pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the
midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of
Eden to dress it and to keep it.
2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the
garden thou mayest freely eat:
2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not
eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely
die.
Sounds to me like a definite time. What part of the ** the day thou
eatest ** do you not understand.
Dave Oldridge
news:4217EAF9.AAF577B4@Nothing_But_The.Truth:
I disagree, of course. But my disagreement is based as much on tradition
as it is on scripture. And part of it is simply my own experience.
Libertarius
John Ings wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 18:31:04 -0700, Libertarius
> <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
>
> >> Jesus statement or a Gospelwriter's claim of what Jesus said?
> >>
> >> >therfore Jesus is a liar.
> >>
> >> Or the Gospel writer is.
> >
> >===>Not a liar, just a fictional story teller.
> >What's wrong with that?
>
> You're saying the Gospel writer didn't intend his readers to believe
> Jesus was a real person?
===>Maybe one or another writer DID so intend. At least the
author or a redactor of the Johannine story actually admits
that much.
> I think he did. He may have believed so himself and felt sure that
> Jesus would have said such things, so he claimed Jesus did without a
> twinge of conscience.
===>Maybe so.
But not necessarily.
Similar stories were written about other personalities, e.g.
Julius Caesar, much of whose story was adapted by the
Gospel writer(s).
Are you saying that those who wrote the stories about him
were also just liars?
> But it is still a lie.
===>The literature of the world can, in that view,
be divided into NON-FICTION and LIE? ;-) -- L.
Libertarius
"jab...@excite.com" wrote:
===>You're obviously incapable of recognizing the difference between
FALSE vs. FICTIONAL.
What is FALSE is insisting that a fiction is true. -- L.
Terry/Anti
"robpar" <rob...@airmaildelete.net> wrote in message
news:v0fh11tv2ppb4febv...@4ax.com...
Sounds that way, doesn't it. I don't think that's what was meant. I think
what was meant was that he would never die if he didn't eat of that tree.
Gramps
Libertarius
~ oOo ~ wrote:
> "Pastor Dave" <newsgr...@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:rjmf115qrisk1f5jk...@4ax.com...
>
> > He told us when He was doing that. But I guess when He
> > said that if someone lusts after a woman, he has
> > committed adultery in his heart, that it was just a
> > metaphor and we can do it anyway.
> ===========================
> Lust after? How do you stop yourself from being attracted to a beautiful
> and desirable women? Did he expect you to castrate yourself? Poke your
> eyes out? Quit your job and leave town? As long as one doesn't ACT on
> these attractions there is no harm done. If you blind yourself and castrate
> yourself you are of little use to your wife and family.
===>So, what?
Is it not written
"If anyone comes to Me,
and does not hate his own father and mother
and wife and children
and brothers and sisters,
yes, and even his own life,
he cannot be My disciple." (Luke 14:26) ;-) -- L.
Libertarius
~ oOo ~ wrote:
===>But, but,... but YHWH the ET said they would die
THAT DAY!
Nothing about "forever" was mentioned. ;-)
Of course, I know they claim they actually did die "spiritually",
even though no such concept exists in the story, or that they
died "with one divine day", i.e. within a thousand years,
but, again, the story does not allow such misinterpretation.
A "day" is defined as "EVENING AND MORNING", i.e. one nighttime
and one daytime. -- L.
Libertarius
Terry/Anti wrote:
===>Typical Kindergarten-level reply.
Not surprising. -- L.
John Ings
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
>The literature of the world can, in that view,
>be divided into NON-FICTION and LIE?
Fiction is intended to entertain, while lie is intended to delude and
persuade. It's the intent of the fable that counts, not its content.
## There is no creed so false, but faith can make it true.
Libertarius
Terry/Anti wrote:
===>Keep on flaunting your ignorance?
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,
thou shalt not eat of it:
for in the day that thou eatest thereof
thou shalt surely die." (Gen. 2:17 KJV)
(That IS a reference to a "time limit" in YHWH's
statememnt)!
Do you enjoy dangling your stupidity before us.
You're so funny! -- L.
Libertarius
Dave Oldridge wrote:
===>I understand you must disagree, at least ex cathedra.
As for "experience", no one can claim that they "experience" that the
Bible is the "word of God". It is just a declaration of a belief.-- L.
Libertarius
Dave Oldridge wrote:
===>KENOSIS is a very ambiguous, hence controversial invention
of the writer of Philippians, basically implying that the fellow from
Galilee, who was executed by the Romans for sedition, and later worshipped
by Saul/Paul of Tarsus and his converts as a god, was originally
a deity. The controversy is over just how much of the "divine nature"
he possessed as an obviously human being.
Acts 2:22 is probably the most likely expression of what the original
followers believed about him: he was just a specially chosen MAN,
serving as an INSTRUMENT of "God" -- as were many other characters
depicted in the literature compiled in the Bible. -- L.
raven1
>Christ is a must and you are a Tree!
>
>You are a Tree. You are expected to drop fruit and shine.
>Jesus planted seeds and the grass grew upon the Earth.
>The Oil of the Olive Tree is sealed, set apart.
>The Wine of the vine and Body of Christ is sealed, set apart.
>The Fields are ripe and all plants grow togather.
>
>Mary had a Mass for Christ and You are a Tree.
Don't Bogart that joint, dude...
Libertarius
robpar wrote:
===>The part he chooses to ignore -- or deny, because it does not fit his
doctrine. -- L.
Libertarius
Bob Crowley wrote:
===>But he was no "creator", just a MAN.
> However He was making a
> dual statement, for a reason.
===>He was making no "dual statement" for ANY reason.
It is a simple story that you fail to accept for what it says.
> The action was not merely pernicious.
===>Not just "merely", it was COMPLETELY pernicious.
> First He was demonstrating His power to His disciples,
===>What "power"? That he can destroy an innocent fig tree
for not producing fruit out of season?
> who later
> reported what they had seen, in that the tree had withered to the
> roots overnight, which meant His word in this case was a more potent
> herbicide than that of any tree poison we have, even today.
===>And you choose to actually believe such a fable.
By his magic command, the tree was destroyed to its roots?
> Secondly He was demonstrating what happens to those who bear no
> spiritual fruit.
===>No one can bear any kind of fruit when it is not time for it!
As the Bible says, FOR EVERYTHING THERE IS A SEASON!
The fellow you call "Creator" did not understand even that?
> It was an analogy, which the unfortunate fig tree
> happened to demonstrate.
===>Nice of you to say so, but he did not seem to have had any
such sympathy for the "unfortunate" tree.
> Thirdly it also demonstrated that while most of His miracles involved
> healing, He also had the power to destroy.
===>What a nice person!
Endowed with the power to punish the innocent!
Just like YHWH did in the Flood story.
> How many trees die every day around the world today, and how offended
> are you by their "natural" deaths?
===>That is totally irrelevant and beside the point.
> If you're not offended by their
> deaths, why are you offended by this one?
===>I am not "offended", only point out that the character Jesus
in that story was not such a good guy!
The original question was (see above):
"What kind of dork goes around punishing trees?"
The answer is, the kind depicted as Jesus in that fig tree story.
> What about a farmer who
> cuts down a tree because it "bears no fruit"?
===>The farmer knows when a tree is SUPPOSED TO bear fruit,
and if it bears no fruit when it is the season to bear fruit, it is time
to cut the tree and use it for fire wood or to carve a nice statue
of Jesus or something.
> I doubt if He was particularly upset by the fig tree.
===>That would have made it even worse.
If he was not even upset, he just did it to show off.
But it is obvious he WAS upset.
> Frankly it was
> a parable for Israel,
===>Frankly, you are lacking reading comprehension.
> which would be destroyed in a generation, and
> also for those who reject Him.
===>You also don't know what you're talking about.
Just repeating typical abusive Christian mudslinging. -- L.
>
>
> Bob Crowley.
Terry/Anti
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
How long is a day to God?
Gramps
Libertarius
Terry/Anti wrote:
===>Read the story.
YHWH was talking to ADAM.
For him it was the same as for the ELOHIM in Genesis 1:
i.e. "evening and morning" (one night time and one day time).
Now we know it is about 24 hours. -- L.
Libertarius
Terry/Anti wrote:
===>That is only because you deliberately misinterpret what is being said.
Why? Because it dos not fit your doctrinal prejudices. -- L.
Classic-GENES
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
> ===>But, but,... but YHWH the ET said they would die
> THAT DAY!
> Nothing about "forever" was mentioned. ;-)
> Of course, I know they claim they actually did die "spiritually",
> even though no such concept exists in the story, or that they
> died "with one divine day", i.e. within a thousand years,
> but, again, the story does not allow such misinterpretation.
> A "day" is defined as "EVENING AND MORNING", i.e. one nighttime
> and one daytime. -- L.
It's almost comical how the fundies come up with all kinds of explanations
and excuses where the stories in Genesis are concerned. They all put their
own spin on it. Speaking of "spins." One told me the earth spun so slow
back then that the time between morning and evening could have been
thousands of years. He said it with a straight face. LOL!!!! Of course
he couldn't produce any evidence.... but that goes without saying.
--
Class.......
Yep, the sleazebags at the WTS added another 120 years to 1914. What a
hoot! :-D The poor misled JWs who were waiting for 1975 got the shaft,
then 2000, shafted again... now this. What happened to all their promised
and underlined scripture proving the generation who saw 1914 would not pass
away before "the end of this system of things?" And they claim a clear
direct line to Jehovah!!!
How can any rational person be so gullible as to swallow this obvious male
bovine excreta? This GB vomit....
=======================================
Classic-GENES
"Terry/Anti" <ter...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:111hugb...@corp.supernews.com...
> Sounds that way, doesn't it. I don't think that's what was meant. I
think
> what was meant was that he would never die if he didn't eat of that tree.
Then what would have happened after a few thousand years when humans were
wall to wall and from sea to shining sea?
--
Klassic....
On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 05:56:15 -0600, bde...@webtv.net (Boydette) wrote:
What its like to be "mind controlled"all your life???? I thought this
was a support group for people damaged by the JWs teachings??......I am
a classic example...learn from me....Boydette
===================================
Classic-GENES
>
> Are they alive now? No. Then they died. I see no time limit in YHWH's
> statement.
That they DIED had nothing to do with the demons, sorcerers, gods and
goddesses of the times. Nothing lives forever. It man didn't die naturally
(i.e. through old age, accidents and disease) there would have been standing
room only until all humans starved to death at some point.
--
Klassic...
BEWARE....there are people on this NG who are claiming to be Jehovahs
Witnesses who are not...tread lighly as you will not find any
encouragement from them...only condemnation as they use their energy to
attack stalk and berate each other instead of using their time in study
prayer meetings service and other spiritual leanings......they are worse
than the ones who have been condemned by the WTS since they do more harm
than good by their incessant reposts with nothing new to say and are in
"good standing' because their evil dealings have not been revealed to
the congregations they associate with....."Do not be misled Bad
Associations Spoil Useful Habits" 1 Cor 15:33 (Credit Boydette)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Classic-GENES
> >## Just answer the questions. Were you castrated or blinded so as to
not
> >see and be attracted to women?
> Another atheist moron.
=====================
Another fanatic CREATIONIST MORON who can't answer a simple question. Since
you can SEE to read and reply here, I will assume you had yourself
castrated so as to never "lust" after a women.....
--
Classic....
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived."
-= Isaac Asimov =-
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~ }<{{{{{Ò> ~~~~ }<((({ö> ~~~~
The best defense to logic is ignorance
chris_h...@yahoo.com
> >The Bible gives us the story. It does not tell us whether it's
> >history or allegory.
>
> If Adam and Eve is a myth.. or an Allegory infusion based on Jewish
> mystism, then Jesus statement to the effect is a lie.
>
> today?
Category Fallacy: Composition
Hmm ... who is the liar?
prab...@shamrocksgf.com
> On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:45:29 GMT, after pondering deep
> thoughts, Dave Oldridge <dold...@leavethisoutshaw.ca>
> spake thusly:
>>Jab...@excite.com wrote in news:1108739422.608293.321120
>>@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> It reports that God created the first human pair, Adam and Eve, and
>>> gave them a beautiful garden home. He also laid this command upon them:
>>> "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as
>>> for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it,
>>> for in the day you eat from it you will positively die." (Gen.
>>> 2:16, 17) What was "the tree of the knowledge of good and bad,"
>>> and what would eating of its fruit signify?
>>>
>>> It was a literal tree, but God employed it for a symbolic purpose.
>>
>>And you know this because:
>>
>> (1) Some jerk in a three-piece suit said so on a Sunday morning.
>> (2) You had a hallucination and it makes you feel good.
>> (3) You're actually just a liar and don't know it at all.
> (4) Because the Bible says so. That's the one you keep
> ignoring.
And you know the bible to be true because? Oh, yeah, the other one that we
keep ignoring: because god says it's true.
And around and around we go...
--
Mike
W hat atheism: a non-prophet organization...
W ould
J enna
D rink?
-------------------------------
Creation Science: an oxymoron actually created by morons...
-------------------------------
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you
do criticize them, you're a mile away, and you have their shoes.
-------------------------------
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop
thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do
we," George W. "Shrub" Bush Aug 5, 2004
-------------------------------
The only product that Micro$oft could produce that *wouldn't* suck would be a
vacuum cleaner..