PAKISTAN'S HISTORY--Hasan Dani
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By Hasan Dani
Pakistan, the Indus land, is the child of the Indus in the same way as
Egypt is the gift of Nile. The Indus has provided unity, fertility,
Communication, direction and the entire landscape to the country. Its
location marks it as a great divide as well as a link between central
Asia and south Asia. But the historical movements of the people from
Central Asia and South Asia have given to it a character of its own and
have established closer relation between the people of Pakistan and
those of Central Asia in the field of Culture, Language, literature,
food, dress, furniture and folklore. However, it is the Arabian Sea
that has opened the doors for journey beyond to the Arabian world
through the Gulf and Red Sea right into the ancient Civilization of
Mesopotamia and Egypt. It is this Sea voyage that gave to the Indus
Land its earliest name of Meluhha because the Indus people were
characterized as Malahha (Sailor) in the Babylonian records. It is for
this reason that the oldest Civilization of this land, called Indus
Civilization, had unbreakable bonds of Cultural and trade link with the
Gulf States of Dubai, Abu Dabi, Sharja, Qatter, Bahrain and right from
Oman to Kuwait. While a Meluhhan village sprang up in ancient
Mesopotamia (Modern Iraq), the Indus Seals, painted Pottery,
Lapislazuli and many other items were exchanged for Copper, tin and
several other objects from Oman and Gulf States. It is to facilitate
this trade that the Indus writing was evolved in the same Proto-
symbolic style as the contemporary cuneiform writing of Mesopotamia.
Much later in history it is the pursuit of this seaward trade that
introduced Islam from Arabia in to Pakistan. The twin foundations of
cultural link have helped build the stable edifice of Islamic
Civilization in this Country. All these cultural developments are write
large in the personality of the people of Pakistan.
As in many other Countries of the world, man in Pakistan began with the
technology of working on old stone by using quartzite and flint found
in Rohri hills and stone pebbles found in the Soan Valley. The oldest
stone tool in the world, going back to 2.2 million years old, has been
found at Rabat, about fifteen miles away from Rawalpindi, thus breaking
the African record. The largest hand Axe has also been found in the
Soan Valley. Although man is still hiding in some corner, the Soan
pebble stone age Culture show a link with the Hissar Culture in Central
Asia. Later about fifty thousand B.C. at Sangho Cave in Mardan District
man improved his technology for working on Quartz in order to chase the
animal in closed Valleys. Still later he worked on micro quartz and
chert or flint and produced arrows, knives, Scrapers and blades and
hunted the feeling deer and ibexes with bow and arrow. Such an hunting
scene is well illustrated on several rock carvings, particularly near
Chilas in the Northern Areas of Pakistan along the Karakorum Highway -
a style of rock art so well known in the trans- Pamir region of
Tajikistan and Kirghizstan. However, the first settled life began in
the eight millennium B.C. when the first village was found at Mehergarh
in the Sibi Districts of Baluchistan comparable with the earliest
villages of Jericho in Palestine and Jarmo in Iraq. Here their mud
houses have been excavated and agricultural land known for the
Cultivation of Maize and wheat. Man began to live together in settled
social life and used polished stone tools, made pots and pans, beads
and other ornaments. His taste for decoration developed and he began to
paint his vessels, jars, bowls, drinking glasses, dishes and plates. It
was now that he discovered the advantage of using metals for his tools
and other objects of daily use. For the first time in seventh
millennium B.C. he learnt to use bronze. From the first revolution in
his Social, Cultural and Economic life. He established trade relation
with the people of Turkamenistan, Uzbekistan, Iran and other Arab world.
He not only specialized in painting different designs on pottery, made
varieties of pots and used Cotton and Wool but also made terracotta
figurines and imported precious stones from Afghanistan and Central
Asia. This early bronze age Culture spread out in the country side of
Sindh, Baluchistan, Punjab and North West Frontier Province.
And this early begining led to the concentration of population into
small towns. Such as Kot Digi in Sindh and Rehman Dheri in Dera Ismail
Khan District. It is this social and Cultural change that led to the
rise of the famous cities of Mohenjo Daro and Harappra, the largest
concentration of population including artisans, craftsman, businessmen
and rulers. This culminated in the peak of the Indus Civilization,
which was primarily based on intensive irrigated land agriculture and
overseas trade and contact with Iran, Gulf States, Mesopotamia and
Egypt. Dams were built for storing river water, land was Cultivated by
means of bullock- harnessed plough - a system that still prevails in
Pakistan, granaries for food storage were built, furnace were used for
controlling temperature for making red pottery and various kinds of
ornaments, beads of carnelian, agate and terracotta were pierced
through, and above all they traded their finished goods with Central
Asia and Arab world. It is these trade divided that enriched the urban
populace who developed a new sense of moral honesty, discipline and
cleanliness, and above all a social stratification in which the priests
and the mercantile class dominated the society. The picture of high
civilization can be gathered only by looking at the city of Mohenjo
Daro, the first planned city in the world, in which streets are aligned
straight, parallels to each other, with a cross streets cutting at
right angles. It is through these wide streets that wheeled carriages,
drawn by bulls or asses, moved about, carrying well-adorned persons
seated on them, appreciating the closely aligned houses, made of pucca
bricks, all running straight along the streets. And then through the
middle of the streets ran stone dressed drains covered with stone
slabs - a practice of keeping the streets clean from polluted water,
for the first time seen in the world.
The Indus Civilization is the first literate Civilization of the
subcontinent. The cities were centers of art and craft. Where the
artisan produced several kinds of goods that were exported to other
countries. Sailing boats sailed out from Mohenjo Daro and anchored in
the port of the Gulf, which region was perhaps known as Dilmin.
However, it was the city administration that managed the urban life in
strict discipline and controlled the trade in their hands. The
discipline is derived from the strict practice of meditation (yoga)
that was practiced by the elite of the city, who appear to have trimmed
their beard and hair combed and tied with golden fillets. The body was
covered with a shawl bearing trefoil designs on them. Such a noble man
with a sharp nose and long wish eyes shows a contrast with a bronze
figurine of a dancing and singing girl, plying music with her fully
bang led hand, as we find today with the Cholistan ladies having
bangled hands. Obviously there were distinctive ethnic groups of people
in Mohenjo Daro but the dominant class of rulers and merchants appear
to be distinctive from the rest of the population. It is these literate
people who inter- acted with the Arabian people and continued to
maintain strict discipline in the society. It is they who developed
astronomy, mathematics, and science in the country along with numerical
symbols, weights and measures but they thoroughly intermixed in the
society and also believed in the local cult of tree and tree deities
and animal totems. The most prominent animals as attested in the seals
are bull, buffalow, elephant, tiger, rhinoceros, aligator and deer and
ibexs. However, Mesopotamian influences are seen in the figures of
Gilgamash, Enkidu, joint statue of the bull and man and other animals
with several heads and bodies. However, the unique local concept is
that of highly meditative man, seated in his heels, with three or four
heads, and combining in himself the power to control the animals
probably with a crown of horns or some times a tree overhead. It is
this supreme deity, depicted on Seals, that draws the serpent
worshippers and overpowers the animals. A part from these there was no
concept of nature worship as we find in the Vedas of the Aryans. The
ritual consisted of offerings through the intermediary of mythological
composite animals to the tree deity. These dose not appear to have been
any concept of animals sacrifice nor worship of any idol or idols. The
Indus civilization lasted for nearly five hundred years and flourished
up to 1750 B.C. when we notice the movements of nomadic tribes in
Central Asia. As a result the Asian trade system was greatly disturbed.
Consequently the trade and industry of the Indus people greatly
suffered with the result that led to the end of the Civilization. The
cities vanished, the noble lost their position. The writing finished.
The common people met with the influx of new horse-riding pastoralists
who hardly understood the system of irrigated agriculture and hence the
value of dams. Such nomadic tribes are known from the large number of
graves and their village settlements all over Swat, Dir and Bajaur
right up to Taxila. In the Northern Areas of Pakistan different group
of such tribes, known as Dardic people are known from their graves. The
tribes of the plains are recognized as different groups of the Aryans
from the hilly tribes of the North- the ancestors of the Kalash people
and those who now speak Shina, Burushaski and other Kohistani
languages. They had nothing to do with the cities as we find them
building small villages nor did they know irrigation. Infect they
believed in nature gods, one of them Indra destroyed the dams and
spelled disaster on the local Dasyus who differed from them in color,
creed and language. These Aryans conquerors developed there own
religion of the Vedas, practiced animal sacrifice and gradually built
up tribal kingdoms all over the Indus Valley. The most prominent being
that of Gandhara with capitals at Pushkalavati (modern Charsadda) and
Taxila, the last having been the older capital of Takshaka, the king of
serpent worshippers. Taksha-sila (a sanskrit word, literally translated
in to Persian Mari-Qila) survive in modern Margala. It become the
strong hold of the Aryans, whose great epic book Mahabarata was for the
first time recited here. Since that time Takshka-sila or Taxila lying
on the western side of Margala remained the capital of the Indus land,
which was called Sapta- Sindhu (the land of seven rivers) by the
Aryans. It because of this central location, en routs from Central to
South Asia that the new capital of Pakistan has been established at
Islamabad on the eastern side of Margala hill , thus giving a
historical link from the most ancient to modern time and new
significance to Pakistan as a link between Central and South Asia.
The city of Taxila began to grow from 6th century B.C. onward when
Achaemenian kings by name Cyrus and Darius joind this city by road and
postal services with their own capital at Persepolis in Iran. Here one
can see the Aryan village at Hatial mound lying above the pre-Aryan
bronze age capital of Takshakas (Serpent worshippers). One can also
visit the Achaemenian city at Bhir mound, where old bazars and royal
palace, with long covered drain, have been discovered. Land rout trade
with Iran and the west once again started with the issue of coin
currency for the first time in the Indus land. But the most important
was the great use of iron technology, which produced several kind of
iron tools, weapons and other objects of daily use as known as from the
excavations at Taxila. Above all a new writing known as Kharoshti was
developed here. At the same time the oldest University of the world was
founded at Taxila, where taught the great grammarian Panini, born at
the modern village of Lahur in Sawabi district of the Frontier
Province. It is the basis of this grammar that modern linguistics has
been developed. It is in this University that Chandragupta Maurya got
his education, who later founded the first subcontinental empire in
South Asia. He developed the Mauryan city at Bhir mound in Taxila,
where ruled his grandson, Ashoka, twice as governor. He introduced
Buddhism in Gandhara and built the first Buddhist monastery, called
Dharmajika Vihara, at Taxila. Ashoka has left behind his Rock Edicts at
two palaces, one at Mansehra and another at Shahbazgari, written in
Kharoshti.
Long before the rise of Chandragupta Maurya the Achaemenian empire,
that had extended from Pakistan to Greece and Egypt, had collapsed
under the onslaught of Alexander of Macedonia. He first finished with
the Greek city states, united the Greeks, and dashed forward to annex
the Achaemenian empire and hence proceeded to all those places where
the Achaemenian had ruled. In this march they come to Taxila in 326
B.C. where he was welcomed by the local king Ambhi in his palace at
Bhir mound. It is here as well as at Bhira in Jhelam district that
Alexander's remains can be seen. However, he fought the greatest
battale on the bank of the Jhelam river opposite the present village of
Jalalpur Sharif against Porus, the head of the heroic Puru tribe, whose
descendents still supply military personal to the Pakistan army.
Alexander's battle place was at Mong, where he founded a new city,
called Nikea, the city of victory. The other city which he founded was
called Bucaphela after the name of his horse that died here. However,
the most captivating site is at Jalalpur Shaif, laying on the bank of
river let Gandaria, perhaps Sikanaria, where Alexander's monument has
now been built on the spot where he stopped for about two months before
launching his attack on Porus.
The Achaemenian and Alexander's contacts with Pakistan are very
important from the point of view of educational and Cultural history.
The Achaemenian brought the learning and science of Mesopotamia
Civilization that enriched the University of Taxila. They also
introduced their administrative system here, on the basis of which the
famous book on political science, called Arthasastra was written in
Sanskrit language in Taxila by Kautilya, known as Chanakya, the teacher
of Chandragupta Maurya. It is this book that was adapted for the
administrative of the Mauryan empire. On the basis of Achaemenian
currency the Mauryan punch marked coins. So well known in Taxila, were
produced. It is their Aramic writing, used by Achaemenian clerks, that
led to the development of Kharoshti in Pakistan and trade with the
semetic world that created the Brahmi writing in India. On the other
hand Alexander brought Greek knowledge and science to Taxila and
introduced Greek type of coin currency. It is Taxila that philosophers
and men of learning of the two countries met and developed science,
mathematics and astronomy. Above all Alexander left behind large number
of Greeks in Central Asia, who founded the Bactrian Greek kingdom in
mid-third century B.C. it is the descendants of these Bactrian Greeks
who later advanced in to Pakistan and built up the Greek kingdom here
and built up their own city at Sirkap in Taxila. This is the second
well planned city in Pakistan. The Greeks introduced their language,
art and religion in the country of Gandhara, where ruled thirteen Greek
kings and queens. Their language lasted more than five hundred years
and their art and religion and considerable influence on the flourish
of Gandhara Civilization.
This civilization was the result of interaction of several peoples who
followed the Greeks, the Scythians, the Parthians and Kushans who came
one the other from Central Asia along the Silk Road and integrated them
selves into the local society. It is under their patronage that
Buddhism evolved here into its new Mahayana form and this become the
religion of the contemporary people in Pakistan. Under their
encouragement the Buddhist monks moved along the Silk Road freely and
carried this religion to central Asia, China, Korea and Japan. It is
again the trade along the silk road that was particularly controlled by
the Kushana emperors, who built a mighty empire with Peshawar as their
Capital, the boundaries of which extended from the Aral Sea to the
Arabian Sea and from Afghanistan to the Bay of Bengal. It is the
dividends of trade that enriched Pakistan and led to the development of
Gandhara Art, which mirrors the social, religious and common man's life
of the time. It is an art that was blend of the Greek classical and
local arts, which created the finest statues of Buddha and
Buddhisatttvas that today decorate the museums all over the world. At
the same time the sculpture depict the whole life of the Buddha in a
manner that is unsurpassed. Many Greek themes, their gods, typical
toilet trays, Greek life scenes showing musicians, drinking bouts and
love making are presented in there natural fashion. The Kushanas period
was the golden age of Pakistan as the Silk Road trade brought
unparalleled prosperity to the people of the country.
The luxury items produced in the country enrich the museum at Taxila at
that show the Cultural and trends of life of the time. Gandhara art is
the high water achievement of the people of Pakistan. Mahayana Buddhism
was the inspiring ideal of the time and the Buddhist Stupas and
monastries survive in every nook and corner of the hills. It was this
time that the country was known as Kushana-shahar, the land of the
Kushanas, to which came the Romanships to carry the luxury goods in
exchange for Roman Siler and Gold, that were used by the Kushana
emperors and as a result their gold currency flooded the country and
all along the Silk road. It is these Kushana kings who have gifted the
national dress of shalwar and kamiz and sherwani to Pakistan. Their
dress and decorations are deeply imprinted on the Indus land, that is
now Pakistan.
Then came from Central Asia the Huns and the Turks who gave to Pakistan
the present ethnic, their Culture, Food and Adab. The Jats, Gakkhars,
Janjuas (Jouanjouan of the Chinese) and Gujars all trekked into
Pakistan and made their home here. The Rajput rose and founded the
feudal system in Punjab and Sindh in the same way the Pashtuns, who
borrowed the surname of Gul and later the title of Khan from the
Mongols, their Sardari system in Baluchistan, and slowly developed the
wadera practice in the Indus delta region of Sindh. This feudal
arrangements, which was the result of confederated tribes of the Huns,
led to new administrative system in the country and created a new form
of land management that has lasted until today. The tribes have fused
into the agricultural society but their brotherhoods have survived and
they have given a permanent character to Pakistan.
In the early eight Century A.D. the Arabs brought Islam in Sindh and
Multan built up the kingdom of Al-Mansura in Sindh. At the same time
their east ward Sea trade introduced porcelain and called on were from
China and popularized glass were from Iran Syria- new materials that
can be seen in the excavations at Bambhor in Sindh. With the Muslims
Turks came the Sufis and Darveshas from Central Asia. Iran and
Afghanistan and they spread Islam all over the country. It is Sultan
Muhamud of Ghazni who made Lahore- the city of Data Saheb as his second
capital. However, the city of Multan become famous as the city of
Saints although it lay en route the camel caravan that carried on trade
between Pakistan and Central Asia right up to Baku in Azerbaijan. It is
these cities that the famous Muslims monuments of old are to be seen.
As a result of the Saintly activity Pakistan become a land of Islamic
Civilization. In several villages and cities we now find the Dargah of
these Muslims Saints. While Shaahbaz Kalandar is a well known in Sindh,
Baba Farid Shakarganj presides over Pak Pattan in Punjab, Buner
Babarules over the Frontier region, and Syed Ali Hamdani is the real
Sufi Saint in Kashmir. The capital city of Islamabad enshrines the well
known Golra Sharif and Barri Imam. It is in these Saints who influenced
the development of Sufi literature in all the languages of Pakistan and
their monumental tombs that attract the people from all the country. In
the old city of Thatta at Makli hill several tombs and Mausolea are
spread over the place that surpass in the beauty of stone carving but
much more than this they evidence the historical evolution of
architecture from 12th century A.D. to the Mughal time.
This was a period of great change in the historical integration of the
people in Pakistan when the country was brought closer to Central Asia
and the Arab world. The mixing of several tribes from both these
regions transformed the ethnic complex of the country. Just as in the
period of Kushanas of Mahayana type rose here and the Buddhist monks
out from this land along the Silk road to carry the massage of the
Buddha, now it was the Arabs and the Muslims Saints from Central Asia
who came in the reverse direction and flocked in the prosperous land of
Pakistan. New trade route were opened in the reverse direction from
those countries into the Indus land. From the Huns to the Turks the age
of cavalry dominated the life scene. Many Rock carvings in Central
Punjab show men riding, even standing on horse back and brandishing
their swords and shooting arrows. Hence forward Polo game become common
and sword dance was common, as seen in the Rock carving near Chilas.
The foundation of Muslims state was firmly laid, in which the dominate
position first occupied by the Arabs in Sindh and Multan and later by
the Gaznavid and Ghorid Sultans who made the Indus country as their
spring board from the onward conquest of India. A beautiful monument in
memory of sultan Ghori can be seen at Suhawa on the National Highway.
It was therefore in the fitness of things that the first missile made
in Pakistan was named after Ghori. Several Muslims kingdoms grew up in
this country. Beginning from north we find the Trakhan ruling dynasty,
who came from trans-pamir region here and become supreme in the Gilgit
area. The descendent of Shah Mir founded the Muslims Sultanate in
Kashmir maintained its independents until the time of the Mughal
emperor Akbar. The Pushtun tribes made their movements and asserted
their independence in the land watered by the western branch of the
Indus River. The Langhas and later the Arghuns become the Master of
Multan. The Sama ruling dynasty started a new era of Cultural
development and prosperity in Sindh. The Baluchis in concert with
Brahuis leapt forward not only to build their kingdom in Baluchistan
but also migrated eastward and northward. Apart from these political
shape of the country, there was an unparalleled development in art and
architecture, literature and music, and particularly new social
integration took place on the basis of the patronage of local
languages, such as Baluchi, Sindhi, Panjabi, Pashto, Kashmiri, Shina
and Burushaski. All these languages received literary form with the
support of the Muslims rulers and the first time their literatures
began to take shape. They received influence from Arabic and Persian
and added many themes from the Folk-loresas wellas from those of
Central Asia. Such an unusual developments transformed the society with
the stories from Shahnama and Hazar Dastan and with the Folk-tales from
Lila-Majnun, Sasi-Punnu and Hir-Ranjha. The stringed instruments, the
dholak and the dhap and aslo flute and trinklets gave a new tone to the
life of the people of Multan, Thatta, Maarha Shrif in D.I. Khan, Swat
and Kashmir, and finally Gilgit, Hunza and Balistan created the finest
architecture of the time. That was the period of new religious activity
in the country side when Islam become the dominant religion of the
people who were directly linked in religious ties with the people of
Central Asia, Iran, Afghanistan, Turkey and Arab world.
The migrant people had brought the new technology of straining the
horse from Central Asia and Iran. Were ever the horse galloped right up
the corner of Bengal and Orissa, the Turks and Afghans advanced from
Pakistan and established new empires. Here the artisans and craftsman
gathered in new center, cities began to grow with new craft mohallas,
and they began to specialise in the products of Shawl and carpets in
Kashmir, chapkan, chadar and dopatta in Panjab and Chitral and Northern
Areas, tile work in Multan, Hala and Hyderabad, block printing in Sindh
and fine carpentry in Chiniot, Bhira and Dera Ismail Khan. As a result
several families occupied themselves in traditional crafts and passed
them on to their own children.
Then came the Mughal emperors, descendent of Amir Timur, who, following
the Mongol ruler Changiz Khan, had embarked on building a new world
empireon the basis of organizing a new type of cavalry and making a new
disciplined army in the unites of hundred and thousand. The later still
survive in the name of Hazara both in Pakistan and Afghanistan. The
first Mughal emperor, Zahiruddin Muhammad Babar, who had to come out
from Farghan, brought a new taste of poetry, baghicha and architectural
forms from the natural environment and landscape from Farghana and
Samarkand, latter city reflecting the delicious water of Zarafshana
(golden) river. Baber built his first terraced garden in Kabul and then
choose the beautiful spot at Kalda or Kakkar Kahar in Chakwal district
and built here Bagh-i-Safa on the very spot marked by this throne seat.
It was again terraced garden watered by a near by spring. At the old
Bhira on the bank of Jehlum he built a fort and then proceeded to Shah
Dara (the Royal pass Gate) that opened his route the city of Lahore. At
Shah Dara several garden were laid by by the Mughal noblemen but only
one is preserved inside Jahangir tomb that was built by his queen Nur
Jehan who lies buried in another mausoleums. The tomb along with the
garden is now desolate. There is also Kamran's baradari, without the
garden, that still defies the flood of the Ravi river. When the Mughal
emperors followed Babar one after the other, they choose the old Lahore
on the bank of Ravi to their main Urban centers in Punjab. It was
developed as a city of gardens with numerous gardens around but the
main Mughal fortress was built in an Island, surrounded by the Ravi on
the three sides and only on the east it was joined to the city proper.
Here third Mughal emperor Akbar transferred his capital from Agra to
meet the challenge of cousin Mirza Hakim. Here he laid the foundation
of a typical Mughal citadel with royal residences, called Akbari Mahal
and Jahangiri Mahal, with a prominent Diwan-i-Am built in the
traditional Iranian style, all constructed in red sand stone imported
from Rajistan. Later Akbar's grandson Shah Jehan, the King of
architecture, transformed many buildings and renewed to his taste with
white marble. He added Diwan-i-Khas that overlooked Ravi, his palace
and Turkish Bath and still more important the Moti Masjid, the gem of
monuments, with beautiful decorative designs in precious stones set in
marble.
However, his choicest building is the Shish Mahal, the Mirror Palace
that was the constructed by the side of a Charbagh style garden with
running water channel and fountains, but later destroyed by the Sikhs,
and quadrangles remodeled. Such garden, called Mehtab, can be seen in
other quadrangles in the Fort. The Shish Mahal is the luxurious place
of resort particularly during summer months with rest rooms of a long
hall at its either end, opening on to the brilliantly dazzling Veranda
that looks at the marble paved quadrangle with a fountain in the middle
side. The mirror reflects the stars and the bedrooms presents, in its
ceiling, the panorama of a star lit Sky. On the western side there is a
unique building of Bengali style, called Naulakha, whose brilliance of
precious stone outshone the natural setting of flowers and tree leaves
that decorate the walls. Alas ' the Sikh and British soldiers have
robbed many of the precious stones. Even then the Shish Mahal, even in
its changed character by the Sikhs, presents a dazzling brilliance in
its perfect creation by the Mughal emperor Shah Jehan. It is the climax
of Mughal luxury surpassed nowhere in the world.
The exterior wall of the Shish Mahal one can see the beautiful mosaic
paintings that depict everyday sport of the Mughal princes for the
enjoyment of the people who used to gather below the fort not only to
have a view of the emperor sitting in the Jharokha but als to admire
the brilliance of color on the wall. Here one can observe galloping
horses, humped camels, elephant ride, hunting scene, animal fights,
horse man plying polo or chaughan, camel fights, figures of angels,
demon head sand moving clouds, horse and elephant riders crossing
Swords and verities of floral and geometrical designs. There are three
gates to enter the fort, all three of them showing different tastes.
The Masti (or correctly Masjid) Gate on the east shows Akbar's taste of
red sand stone. The Shahburj gate on the west presents the fine mosaic
decorations of the time of Janhangir. The last is the Alamgiri gate
built by Emperor Aurangzeb, showing tasteful simple entrance with
multiple facetted Tower at either end, crowned by Kiosks.
From Shish Mahal one can have a magnificent view of the Badashahi
Masjid built by Aurangzeb on a spot regained after the river Ravi
shifted further away. Its magnificent Stair way leading to the elegant
red sand stone gate way on the east is highly impressive. It is on the
left side that later the tomb of Allama Iqbal was built. The gate way,
which is preserved the relic of the Prophet and also in one of the copy
of the Holy Qur'an with brilliant calligraphy, leads into a wide open
courtyard, having a washing pond in its middle, and rows of cells on
its sides. On its west is the main prayer chamber of oblong shape
marked by four tall corner towers. On its roof are three marble dooms
of bulbous shape that attract the eye from a long distance. The
interior of the mosque has chaste decoration in the mehrab chamber that
opened in to equally well decorated side aisles. It has a Verandah on
the front that is again tastefully decorated. But the most elegant are
the tall towers at four corners of the quadrangle, from the top of
which one can have an unforgettable view of the city of Lahore.
There are two other beauties in the city of which the greatest
monumental gems of Lahore. The first is the most chaste fully painted
mosque of Wazir Khan, which was once the center of religious and
educational activities during the Mughals period. In its original
design the mosque was fronted by an open maidan that presented from a
distance a marvellous view of the mosque. It was built by Ilmuddin
Ansari, hailling from the old trading city of Chiniot, but later he
gave rise to the city of Wazirabad. He was raised to the high post of
governor by Shah Jehan for his devoted service and great skill of
Hikmat. But of greater importance in his taste of decorative
architecture which he has translated into this mosque. The mosque plan,
which is typical Mughals style but for its squat domes has tall
minarets crowned by tasteful Chhatris. The most attractive is the
mosaic ornamentation of the facade, the minars, and particularly the
mihrab, which remains unsurpassed in its setting and choice of
decorations and calligraphic work. In its charging decoration the
mosque symbolises high sense of taste and marks a magnificent
attraction in Lahore, to which both Shah Jehan as well as his officials
gave a new face of color and charm.
And yet the greatest jewel of the city of Lahore is the Shahlimar Bagh,
the unique pleasure resort that has been gifted to the world by the
Mughal emperors. With paying a visit to this garden one can hardly
understand the Mughal love for pleasances. In its creation what a real
pleasure they have bestowed to the people of Lahore. The garden
sumbolises the elixir of life that the Mughals alone could imagine.
They had long left Farghana but the beauteous charm of its terraced
fields lingered behind that has been recaptured in the Cahrbagh style
of the garden in Shahlimar, as Taj Mahal in Agra is the symbol of
unforgettable love of emperor Shah Jehan, in the form of unique
architectural creation, for the beloved queen Mumtaz Mahal, so is the
Shahlimar, the epitome, of Shala (fire of love), the embodiment of the
highest playful joy in life that the emperor and empress could have in
this world. The garden is a combination of Charbaghs, water channels,
fountains, Cascades, water falls and bathing hall in three different
terraces, each terrace headed by beautiful pavilions for a pause of
pleasurable enjoyment and then to pass on the other ponds of joy, inset
with showering fountains, each terrace presenting varieties in scenic
complex. Starting from a elaborate gate way in the south , with a water
fountain in its middle chamber, we enter the open space, surrounded on
right and left, by residential quarters, having long walkways, in the
middle of either side of a channel marked by fountain, that join
together on the four sides on a watery platform. And then we pass to
the first pavilion that looks at a square pond remarkable sitting a
cascade of a water falling down below the pavilion, series of fountains
around a central seat for musicians and dancers and smaller pavilions
at the four corners. From the top pavilion the elite royalties draw
their pleasure from the scenic panorama in front and from the corner
pavilions guests could roll in pleasance and enjoy the music of the
running fountains coupled with the music of the singers and dancers.
The next lower terrace begin with a rare bathing hall in the middle
with water fountains lower down and lighted lamps in the arched niches
of the walls. Here one could cool the legs during summer months- a
novel way of cooling the atmosphere in the days when there were no
electricity and air conditioners. And thus we find here a thrilling
atmosphere where natural art has been channelised in the service of
man. What a creation of charming loveliness that is combined with
cooling water in various forms to soothe the evening of warm Lahore.
That is not all of Mughal architecture. If one likes to see the Mughal
fondness for hunting, one can go to Sheikhopura, not from Lahore , and
admire the construction of Hiran Minar by emperor Jahangir on the spot
his dearly loved deer died. That Minar stand by the side of a tank
which has in its middle a three storied pavilion for a general view
around. If one can interested to see the defence arrangements of the
Mughals, one can go to Attock on the bank of the Indus river, where
Akbar's built a magnificent fort, made arrangements for crossing the
river by boat-bridge and laid a new road south of the Kabul river
leading to Peshawar through the Khyber pass to Kabul. And then come to
Attock the empress Nur Jahan, who constructed here a caravan Serai,
known as Begum Ki Serai, with a platform at the four corners and living
rooms cooled by the Indus breeze. It is from one of the top platform
that one could look at the magnificent expanse of the Indus river, full
of flowing life and natural beauty, that perhaps will remain as the
lasting memory of the Indus land, that is Pakistan.
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
cyberpa...@aol.com
Khorasan
The so-called "Pakistan" was established in 1947 by the British Agent Ali
Jinnah. What you call as history of "Pakistan" is really the history of
India. You Pakistanis do not have history.
cyberpa...@aol.com
khor...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
>
> The so-called "Pakistan" was established in 1947 by the British Agent
Ali
> Jinnah. What you call as history of "Pakistan" is really the history
of
> India. You Pakistanis do not have history.
Almost all of the present day countries of the Middle East, Central
Asia, and South Asia were either directly created by the European
imperialists or through their consent. At least, the Pakistan Movement
consisted of indigenous Muslims, and was through their efforts that
Pakistan became a reality. History of "Pakistan" is simply a reference
to the land and people it represents. With your analogy, "India" has no
history because it was created (and named) only about a little more
than a couple of centuries ago by the British colonialists, "Iraq"
and "Egypt" have no history because they were created only less than a
century ago by the British imperialists, "Afghanistan" has no history
because it was only created in 1747 by Abdali (then made a buffer state
by Britain and Russia), etc etc..... So my dear friend dont let your
hatred and biases interfere in denying the historical facts....
chets...@my-deja.com
pakistan (fuckistan) doesn't even have any future.
all the mullahs keep on doing pig shit and shouting 'oink - oink'
In article <3A54A61...@bellatlantic.net>,
khor...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
>
Khorasan
Nothing changes the fact that PAKISTAN DOES NOT HAVE HISTORY!. In recent
years it was voted to be the # 1 corrupt country in the world. Now, what to
expect of this corrupt country and corrupt people who suffer from low
self-esteem and trying to build a FALSE HISTORY form themselves.
chacha_...@my-deja.com
cyberpa...@aol.com wrote:
> In article <3A54A61...@bellatlantic.net>,
> khor...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
> >
> > The so-called "Pakistan" was established in 1947 by the British
Agent
> Ali
> > Jinnah. What you call as history of "Pakistan" is really the history
> of
> > India. You Pakistanis do not have history.
>
> Almost all of the present day countries of the Middle East, Central
> Asia, and South Asia were either directly created by the European
> imperialists or through their consent.
What a bunch of baloney. India and Indians had one of the oldest known
civilizations. The fact that its geo-political range has fluxed over
centuries does not mean anything. All thru Harappa, Mohenjadaro, Indo-
Aryan-Vedic, Post Vedic, Medieval and upto the 20th century India has
maintained a unique presence in world history. Mesopotamia, Greeks,
Chinese, Europeans have documented chronicles of having visited a land
called India.
>At least, the Pakistan Movement
> consisted of indigenous Muslims, and was through their efforts that
> Pakistan became a reality. History of "Pakistan" is simply a reference
> to the land and people it represents.
...which in 50 years has split into 2 halves...so much so for people
and its land...
moreover, the people who concieved the Muslim nation are no longer a
part of Pakistan, they live in Bangladesh, which ur Punjjabi and Pathan
brothers had labeled as "Hindus"
With your analogy, "India" has no
> history because it was created (and named) only about a little more
> than a couple of centuries ago by the British colonialists,
--Bullshit. Read Again...
What a bunch of baloney. India and Indians had one of the oldest known
civilizations. The fact that its geo-political range has fluxed over
centuries does not mean anything. All thru Harappa, Mohenjadaro, Indo-
Aryan-Vedic, Post Vedic, Medieval and upto the 20th century India has
maintained a unique presence in world history. Mesopotamia, Greeks,
Chinese, Europeans have documented chronicles of having visited a land
called India.
"Iraq"
> and "Egypt" have no history because they were created only less than a
> century ago by the British imperialists, "Afghanistan" has no history
> because it was only created in 1747 by Abdali (then made a buffer
state
> by Britain and Russia), etc etc..... So my dear friend dont let your
> hatred and biases interfere in denying the historical facts....
>
My Dear Friend
it is better for you to check facts before making a complete ass out of
yourself. The problem is whatever education you guys receive in
Porkistan, is thru an Islamic filter...thru which hardly any truth
percolates..
cyberpa...@aol.com
unit created by the British colonial rulers. That administrative unit
is not a nation or a country by any natural definition. It is a
conglomeration of many nationalities that the British conquered one by
one and consolidated into a single administrative unit for ease of
governance. No administrative unit, country, nation or empire of this
nature and geographical extent existed in the Southasian Subcontinent
before the British conquest.
The word "India" itself was an European invention, which they (the
British, etc. colonialists) collectively imposed on the many conquered
nations of Southasia, simply as a geographic term (In the words of W.
Churchill, "India is no more a country than the Equator"). "India" is
derived from "Ind," a word borrowed from the ancient Greeks and Romans,
who used that ("Ind") term to only denote the region of Indus valley
(Sindhu) and not present-day India. The Greek-Roman word of "Ind" is
actually the corruption of the Persian word "Hind". Ancient Persians
also called only the region of Indus Valley as "Hind," which they
actually mis-spelled and mis-pronounced the indigenous word for the
region, "Sindh(u)". It was only starting from the Muslim era,
that "Hind" was further used by Muslim invaders to only designate the
region of present-day India, while "Sindh" (then comprising most of
present-day Pakistan) retained it's name.
It is a shame that the present-day terms of "India, Hindustan, Hind,
and Hindu" were given by the Muslim invaders and British colonialists,
derived from "Sindh(u)," which has nothing to do with them, not to
mention it is not even part of present-day India...LOL. Perhaps, at
least, they should change their country's name to Bharat, an ancient
Aryan kingdom, which was only limited to a part of present-day north
India (Jamna-Ganges region)..LOL..
The land and people of Pakistan from 3000 BC to the present:
1. Indus Valley Civilization: 3000-1500 B.C. i.e. about 1500
yrs.
Independent, mostly separate from India.
2. Aryan period: 1500-522 B.C. i.e. about 978 yrs. Independent,
separate
from India.
3. Small semi-independent states: 522-326 B.C. i.e. about 196 yrs.
Under
the suzerainty of Iran's Kayani Empire.
4. Conquered by Alexander and remained under his successor: 326-300
B.C.
i.e. about 26 yrs. Under Greek rulers, not part of India.
5. Province of Mauryan Empire which included Afghanistan: 300-200
B.C.
i.e. about 100 yrs. Part of India, mostly Buddhist rule.
6. Graeco-Bactrian period: 200-100 B.C. i.e. about 100 yrs.
Independent,
not part of India.
7. Saka-Parthian period: 100 B.C.- 70 A.D. i.e. about 170
yrs.
Independent, separate from India.
8. Kushan rule (1st phase): 70-250 A.D. i.e. about 180
yrs.
Pakistan-based kingdom ruled over major portion of north India.
9. Kushan rule (2nd phase): 250-450 A.D. i.e. about 200
yrs.
Independent, separate from India.
10. White Huns and allied tribes (1st phase): 450-650 A.D. i.e.
about
200 yrs. Pakistan-based kingdoms ruled over parts of north India.
11. White Huns (2nd phase--- mixed with other races): 650-1010 A.D.
i.e.
about 360 yrs. Independent Rajput-Brahmin Kingdoms, not part of
India.
12. Ghaznavids: 1010-1187 A.D. i.e. 177 yrs. Part of Ghaznavid
empire,
separate from India.
13. Ghorid and Qubacha periods: 1187-1227 A.D. i.e. about 40
yrs.
Independent, not part of India.
14. Muslim period (Slave dynasty, Khiljis, Tughlaqs, Syeds,
Lodhis,
Suris and Mughals): 1227-1739 A.D. i.e. about 512 yrs. Under north
India
based MUSLIM govts.
15. Nadir Shah and Abdali periods: 1739-1800 A.D. i.e. about 61
yrs.
Iranian and Afghan suzerainty, not part of India.
16. Sikh rule (in Punjab, NWFP and Kashmir), Talpur rule in
Sind,
Khanate of Kalat in Baluchistan: 1800-1848 A.D. i.e. about 48
yrs.
Independent states, not part of India.
17. British rule: 1848-1947 A.D. i.e. about 99 yrs (1843-1947 in
Sind).
Part of India under FOREIGN rule.
18. Muslim rule under the nomenclature of Pakistan: 1947-
present.
Independent, not part of India.
Night23
the north east. It was larger than the mogul empire. Keep in mind
buddhism springs from hinduism. India is recognized as the origin of
the world's great religions.
What "pakistani history" are you talking about when pakistan did not
even exist some 50+ yrs ago? The one that came into existance then is
not even what is territorially pakistan today. What you are talking
about is Indian history. Mohenjo Daro was by the way built by people
who are today living in Southern India. Are they all also part of this
"pakistani history"?
Glancing through the stuff you wrote, one is struck by how much "central
asians" and "arab" and other such words pops up. I think you are victim
of what all pakistanis are victims of - self-denial. The remedy you
think is to cook some history up to show how non-existant pakistan then
were part of something other than India.
What is this obsession amongst pakistanis to want to be associated with
arabs? Whereas iranians and iraqis speak of their ansestors with pride,
you morons persist in a slave mentality. Why is that the case may I
ask?
alizad...@my-deja.com
Pakistan does have history, like it or not.
You are talking more like an Indian like anything else.
Better change your name from khorasan to bombay.
Then such utterances will suit you.
Best regards,
Ali Zadeh
whoca...@my-deja.com
In article <936tst$da2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Khorasan
> salams...chetore..?
>
> Pakistan does have history, like it or not.
Yup. It is only Fifty years!
cyberpa...@aol.com
Night23 <nig...@nightynight.com> wrote:
> Maurya Empire covered almost all of "British India" minus a few parts
in
> the north east.
Not a "few," most of it was never part the Mauryas. The southern most
region of the Indian peninsula (TamilNadu/Kerala/etc)was also never
part of the Mauryan empire!
>Keep in mind
> buddhism springs from hinduism.
Nonsense! Buddhism originated as a distinct religion, against
Brahmanism (aka Hinduism).
>
> What "pakistani history" are you talking about when pakistan did not
> even exist some 50+ yrs ago?
The region and people that is composed of present-day Pakistan! With
your anology, there was no "India" before the British arrival and their
creation of such an entity, so does that mean that India does not have
a pre-British era history?
>Mohenjo Daro was by the way built by people
> who are today living in Southern India.
Boloney! There is no evidence to suggest that the Harappan people
migrated to South India. Most archeologists now agree that Harappans
were absorbed by the waves of invading Aryans. That is to say, they are
the partial ancestors of many present-day Pakistanis.
>
then
> were part of something other than India.
The truth is "India" tries to hijack "Pakistan's" history! E.g.
Harappan civilization was mostly based in present-day Pakistan,
Gandhara was only in Pakistan-Afghanistan, etc etc... Seems like
Indians suffer from inferiority complex, lacking rich history (such as
Pakistan's), they try to steal other's (like Pakistan's)..lol.
>
> What is this obsession amongst pakistanis to want to be associated
with
> arabs? Whereas iranians and iraqis speak of their ansestors with
pride,
> you morons persist in a slave mentality.
This just shows your ignorance! Pakistanis are very proud of their
heritage! Harappans, Aryans, Persians, Greeks, Scythians, Kushans,
White Huns, Arabs, Turks, etc. are all part of their heritage! This can
be confirmed by their history, geography, culture, race, etc.
cyberpa...@aol.com
By the way, since you praise the Mauryas for their grand empire held
together for less than a century (South Afghanistan, Pakistan, most of
Bangladesh, and India minus greater parts of the South and Northeast),
besides the fact that Asoka was a Buddhist, you should know the
following:
Chandergupta, the first Mauryan king and truly a conqueror, was a son
of the Potohar and a prince of Taxila (both in present day Pakistan),
who having defeated the Greek satrap in the Khyber mountains around 303
B.C. was crowned King at Taxila. It was from here that he assembled an
army largely constituted from the frontier hill tribes and those from
the river valleys that he marched into the Gangetic plains, defeated
the Hindu Nanda ruler and established his empire in Magadha (present
Bihar). He was not a Gangetic Indian, nor a Brahmin and his conquest of
the seat of power in heartland India was indeed, after Alexander, the
first invasion from the north-west. Ashoka was his grandson and
inherited Chandergupta's empire on the north-west (much of it including
portion of upper Kabul valleys were ceded by the Greek satrap after his
defeat and was never conquered by Ashoka). Ashoka's edicts in the north-
western region of Mauryan empire reveal his continuing affection and
link with people of this region whom he always regarded as his own.
The Mauryas were themselves perhaps of Scythic origin. D.B. Spooner who
evacuated Pataliputra was struck by his findings and writes in his
article "The Zoroastrian Period of Indian History" as follows:
"For Chandragupta' s times, the evidences are more numerous and
more detailed, and indicate
a following of Persian customs all along the line - in public
works, in ceremonial, in penal
institutions, everything".
The theory of a Scythic descent of the Mauryas is supported by the
following pieces of evidence :
Mauryan coins have the symbol of the sun, a branch, a humped bull
and mountain (Dehiya, p.155).
All these are pre-eminently Scythian MassaGetae icons who were Sun
worshippers with the high
mount symbolizing earth and the irregular curving lines alongside
it symbolizing water. The tree
branch is a symbol of productivity of the earth - agriculture and
soldiering were the traditional noble
occupations of Sakas. The historians of Darius record that when he
attempted to attack the Scythian
MassaGetae (an old-Iranian culture of Central Asia) along the
Black sea in the 5th century BC, "the
Saka kings swore by the sun god and refused to surrender earth and
water".
The clan name of Toramana and Mahirgula, viz Jauvla, is still
available among Indian Jats who are
now called Jauhl.
Jat/Gujar clans and villages named Maur and Dharan exist even today
in Punjab, Haryana, Bihar
and western MP.
The Puranas do not even refer to the largest imperial dynasties of
the north such as the Mauryas
(324 - 232 BC) and Dharan Guptas (320 AD - 515) as "Kshatriyas".
Regarding the Mauryas,
Dehiya [p.147] states "Another indication of the foreign origin [
ie. Saka ] of these people is . . . The
Vishnu Purana calls them [ Gupta rulers ] Sudras. The Markandeya
Purana brands the Mauryas as
Asura. The Yuga Purana called them `utterly irreligious, though
posing as religious'. The Mudra
Rakshasa calls these people as Mlecchas and Chandragupta himself
is called 'Kulahina', an upstart of
unknown family".
It has also been suggested that this Scythic influence was occasioned
by the immigration of Iranic Scyhtians fleeing the Greek conquest. Be
that as it may, the fact remains that the main civilizing impetus
behind the Mauryan empire was Scythic.
whoca...@my-deja.com
future or the past). It never had any nor will it ever have any. Its an
aberration of history that will soon be corrected.
In article <937kb6$ssn$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Night23
Hun, Greek, Persian, Bactrian, Arab..etc etc blood in them. Unlike the
average pakistani however who wishes day and night he was born an Arab
rather than a pakistani, no self-respecting Indian claims affiliation to
any other group besides Indian.
Ashoka was Hindu, converted to Buddhism, who's empire later got wiped
out by Hindu ruler. Historians recognize an Indian, not a Greek empire,
that reached by the end of the fourth century BC from the Hindu Kush to
the Bay of Bengal with its capital at Patna, Bihar.
Once again, India unlike pakistan claims ALL of this as its history. To
the average Paki, history only began when some muslim hoodlum like
quasim or ghazi or gauri from elsewhere arrived to rape the arses of
their ansestors. And that is supposed to be pakistan's "proud"
hisotrical moment.
cyberpa...@aol.com
Night23 <nig...@nightynight.com> wrote:
> 75% of Indians have some bit of Scythic,
> Hun, Greek, Persian, Bactrian, Arab..etc etc blood in them.
LOL..good one! Perhaps you should reverse your claim! 75% of Indians
are very much Dravidoid-Australoid by their physical features
(blood/genes). Less than 25% of Indians have Aryan-Scythic-Greek-Hun-
etc blood, and this is mostly limited to northwest/north India (near
the border of Pakistan). Visiting India and Pakistan, one can easily
distinguish by large the racial differences between the two. Not that
it matters, but I witnessed the same experience when visiting India,
most Indians tend to be darker than most Pakistanis, with their own
physical characteristics.
>Unlike the
> average pakistani however who wishes day and night he was born an Arab
> rather than a pakistani, no self-respecting Indian claims affiliation
to
> any other group besides Indian.
Again you are showing your ignorance! No Pakistani claims to be Arab.
Even the few that do have partial Arab blood do not call themselves
Arab, but are proud Pakistanis. The Pakistani identity is a blend of
Harappan, Aryan, Scythian, Kushan, Hunnic, Arab, Turkic, etc heritage,
with most as Muslims. On the other hand many Indians/Hindus look
nothing like Aryan (Iranian) invaders, but claim to be their
descendents, and give a godly status to them.
>
> Ashoka was Hindu, converted to Buddhism, who's empire later got wiped
> out by Hindu ruler.
Back then there was no such thing as "Hindu" (a later Muslim-invented
terminology for the various Southasian religions). The fact is Maurya
was native to the region of Pakistan (having Iranian-Scythic origin),
who conquered India and established his empire there. According to
Brahmanical (Hindu) scriptures, Mauryas were M'lechas (impure), Sudras,
and foreigners. So much for your claim of Mauryans initially as so
called "Hindu"! Anyway, Asoka denounced whatever religion he had
adhered to (according to your claim "Hindu"), because of the
destruction and killings, and embraced the pacifist-just religion of
Buddhism!
India unlike pakistan claims ALL of this as its history. To
> the average Paki, history only began when some muslim
Nonsense! Pakistanis claim all of their history and are proud of it,
pre-Muslim and post-Muslim! On the other hand, Indians suffering from
inferiority complex claim a lot of history that is not even their's!
>elsewhere arrived to rape the arses of
> their ansestors.
Indeed, the invading Vedic Aryans raping your Dravidoid-Australoid
ancestors!
Night23
cyberpa...@aol.com wrote:
> Nonsense! Buddhism originated as a distinct religion
Buddhist philosophy is exclusively derived from Hinduism. Find me any
noted historian (not one from the "pakistani civilization" please) who
says otherwise.
> The region and people that is composed of present-day Pakistan! With
What are you going to claim next - there was a bangladeshi civilization
4000 yrs ago?? India was a characteristically different and unique
civilization just as Chinese are a distinct civilization. What are the
characteristics of this "pakistani civilization" 3000 yrs ago - what
defined it as being a distinctly separate entity from Indian
civilization? Were the people eating noodles with chopsticks or
building synagogs & churches or living in igloos? All of what you claim
as "pakistani civilization" was Indian civilization. Pakistan was just
dreamed up 50 yrs ago by ali jinnah who wanted to divide India according
to his bigoted agenda.
> >Mohenjo Daro was by the way built by people
> > who are today living in Southern India.
>
> Boloney! There is no evidence to suggest that the Harappan people
> migrated to South India. Most archeologists now agree that Harappans
> were absorbed
And who did they absorb? The non-existant "pakistani civilization"?
Mohenjo daro is older than the arrival of aryans.
The builders of Mohenjo Daro were Dravidas of Southern India,
excavations of sculptures prove this conclusively. In the linguistic
map there is, in the now arid highlands of baluchistan, an isolated
pocket representing a language - Brahui - of Dravid origin.
> This just shows your ignorance! Pakistanis are very proud of their
> heritage!
That is a complete lie. Pakistani history books are distorted to fit 3
fundamentals : a) deny pakistan was piece of of Indian civilization but
instead came from turkey or some crap like that, b) deny murders and
forced conversion of paki ansestors at the hands of islamic hoodlums and
c) how to speak ill of the mother Indian civilization (i.e. "alexander
the great invaded India, not pakistan!").
The world according to pakistanis begins only with the raping of their
ansestors by mohammad bin quasim. Lets be honest here. Is it not true
that every pakistani really wishes he had been born an arab rather than
pakistani. With the arabs describing pakistan as trying to be more arab
than the arabs, do you not feel the least bit of shame at your
slavishness?
Take pride in your identity and roots. Otherwise you will end up like
lewis farakkhan always on the lookout for his non-existant arab
roots.
cyberpa...@aol.com
> Hun, Greek, Persian, Bactrian, Arab..etc etc blood in them.
Funny how you Indians claim Greek, Bactrian, Persian and Arab blood!
The eastern extent of the Persian empire (both Achaemenian and
Sassanian) was limited to the region of present-day Pakistan, not
India! The fact is Alexander's Greek forces invaded only upto the
region of present-day Pakistan, not India! Similarly the Greco-Bactrian
empire was limited to present-day Pakistan-Afghanistan, not India (a
part of north India was briefly invaded)! And Arab rule was only
limited to the region of Pakistan as it's eastern most territory under
the Ummayad-Abbassid dynasties! So what next are you Indians going to
claim? Zulu blood of South Africa? The plain fact is that 80% of
Indians are descendents of aboriginal Dravidoid-Australoids.
> Ashoka was Hindu, converted to Buddhism, who's empire later got wiped
> out by Hindu ruler.
I could care less about India, but in the region of Pakistan, Asoka's
Mauryan empire was replaced by the invading Greco-Bactrians!
Religiously, they were initially a mix Greek pantheist and Persian
zoroastrian religions, but later adopted Buddhism. The most famous
Greco-Bactrian ruler was Menander, a great patron of Buddhism. However,
they had infused Buddhism with some aspects of Greek and Persian
religions.
Night23
> LOL..good one! Perhaps you should reverse your claim!
75% of Indians are "Indo-Aryan" which means they have some part
non-native blood in them. Indians however always maintain they are
Indians regardless of what blood they have in them. Pakistanis however
wish they were the arabs or turks, not pakistanis. This is a fact
everyone knows. Its the exact reason why the average pakistani will
protest a great deal about stuff happening in palestine and bosnia but
not give a fuck about other muslims starving and dying sudan or even
bangladesh. Therein lies the slave mentality of the pakistani who wish
he were not born a pakistani. Now tell me that is not true?
> the border of Pakistan). Visiting India and Pakistan, one can easily
> distinguish by large the racial differences between the two.
I have not seen any blond haired blue eyed pakistani and I have visited
pakistan. Most pakistanis look like the average north indian with some
looking even darker than north indian. Due no doubt to the
bedouin-negroid seed, shall we say 'planted', in pakistan. Then there
are the mohajirs from India - the other arab wanna bes.
> Again you are showing your ignorance! No Pakistani claims to be Arab.
Come on, stop lieing here. It is common knowledge for even L.K Advani
who himself came from pakistan said despite what the average muslim
punjabi believes, no amount of islam is going to change a pakistani into
an arab. Pakistanis are desperate to identify with arab culture because
they take no pride in their ansestory, history or culture. All the
murders of pakistanis through history by muslim bedouins are glorified
as great events in pakistan. Boys are chained up in madrassa with
mullahs trying to force arabic down their throats in an attempt to
supplant pakistan's punjabi culture with arab culture.
> So much for your claim of Mauryans initially as so
> called "Hindu"! Anyway, Asoka denounced whatever religion he had
Mauryans were Hindu plain and proper. Hinduism is recognized by all
scholars (except those paki arab wannabes) as being one of the world's
OLDEST religion. It was not "invented" the day some muslim hoodlum
arrived from abroad. Ashoka converted to Buddhism. Buddhism philosophy
is derived from Hinduism. Indian civilization claims both Buddhism and
Hinduism as part of its heritage. If you have a problem with this FACT,
then there's nothing I can do to help you.
> Nonsense! Pakistanis claim all of their history and are proud of it,
> pre-Muslim and post-Muslim!
"Pakistani history" begins with the ass raping by ex-pirate mohammad bin
quasim. Of course, it is never mentioned as an ass raping in pakistani
history books otherwise the entire history of the non-existant pakistani
civilization will come tumbling out of the closet. Kids will start
asking, why are we apeing and raising butt 5 times a day to a bedouin
culture which murdered our ansestors and converted them by force.
whoca...@my-deja.com
presence will soon be over and its psuedo artificially created history
will be merged in the actual history of which it was an offshoot of
i.e. indian history.
So i repeat Pakistan does not have a past and especially wont have
future. It's destined to fail, the question is not whether but when and
how much damage will be caused when it does.
I am bored hehehehehehehehe fuck pakistan hehehehehehehehe
isi_pa...@my-deja.com
Truth bites you and bites hard. The history of Pakistan is like a red
hot pepper rod in your asses. The people of land made it Pakistan that
proves their unique history and ability. Good luck to you and others in
proving history wrong.
SM Sher Khan
In article <932rng$33h$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
cyberpa...@aol.com
Night23 <nig...@nightynight.com> wrote:
> 75% of Indians are "Indo-Aryan" which means they have some part
> non-native blood in them.
This just confirms your ignorance! 75% of Indians are indeed "Indo-
Aryan," but this is only a linguistic term (not racial or
genetic/physical). Overwhelming majority of the "Indo-Aryan" -speaking
peoples of India are Sudroid/Dravidoid/Australoid by race!
Indians however always maintain they are
> Indians regardless of what blood they have in them. Pakistanis
however
> wish they were the arabs or turks, not pakistanis. This is a fact
> everyone knows.
Obviously your ignorance is pure Indian propaganda! I dont know what
planet you live in, but living in Pakistan and being a Pakistani
myself, I know it for a fact that Pakistanis are proud of their
Pakistani identity, and do not consider themselves as Arab or Turk.
Some may partially have their ancestory derived from them, but they
certainly identify themselves as Pakistanis. It is no different from
proud Americans with different backgrounds (German, Irish, Italian,
etc) which they are proud of their roots, but identify themselves as
Americans. On the other hand, you "Indians" should thank the British
colonial rulers for giving you your identity (for creating such an
entity--India). Not to mention, the European word "India" is derived
from Sindh, which you guys have nothing to do with, and it's not even
part of India! Also, many of you Hindus praise and worship the Vedic
Aryans, but the fact is that they invaded and perpetrated a brutal
genocide on your Sudroid-Dravidoid ancestors!
> I have not seen any blond haired blue eyed pakistani and I have
visited
> pakistan. Most pakistanis look like the average north indian with
some
> looking even darker than north indian.
Blond haired blue eyed are rare in Pakistan, but you will find plenty
with grey/hazel/green eyes and brown/red hair. But of course, the
common type is light colored skin, black hair, dark or light eyes,
tall, hairy,..... that is to say very similar to people in the Middle
East, parts of Central Asia, and the Mediterranean. Yes, many people in
parts of the Punjab and Sindh do look similar to north Indians
(specially the dark or mixed ones)... but in NWFP, northern
areas/Kashmir, northern Punjab, and most of Baluchistan, people look
identical to the people of Afghanistan and Iran. On the other hand,
overwhelming majority of Indians are dark (the South is really dark,
then north has a majority of it), read my next post which gives
details!
> Mauryans were Hindu plain and proper. Hinduism is recognized by all
> scholars (except those paki arab wannabes) as being one of the world's
> OLDEST religion.
Nonsense! There was no such thing as "Hindu" before the advent of
Muslim invaders, who labelled the various religions of their conquered
subjects with it (a Persian word)! Not a single Brahmanical or any
other Indian source from the pre-Muslim era mentions the word
of "Hindu"! Religions were either referred to the caste-belonging or
the variance of religion and region! It was only in 1830 AD that the
British colonial rulers finding it difficult to name the different
religions of India, followed the Muslim solution, by labelling them
as "Hinduism". And if initially the Mauryas were so called "Hindu",
then explain why holy Brahmanic (Hindu) scriptures mentions them as
impure, foreigners, sudras, etc.?
>Buddhism philosophy
> is derived from Hinduism.
Not true! Buddhism stood against the very essentials of Hinduism (aka
Brahmanism), such as the caste system, sacrifices, polytheism, and many
other burdensome rituals.
> "Pakistani history" begins with the ass raping by ex-pirate mohammad
bin
> quasim.
Again, your ignorance is a product of false Indian propaganda!
Pakistani textbooks also do have a great deal of pre-Muslim history.
Even the Pakistani govt website features a large section on pre-Muslim
era of the region of Pakistan. Any way, you are now showing your true
low level of mentality by ignorantly using "ass raping", perhaps you
still have flashbacks of it because your Sudroid-Dravidoid ancestors
were victimized through such means by the invading barbaric Vedic
Aryans. Also, it is funny that you call Qasim a "pirate" when in fact,
historians (and the only historical record on it--Chachnama) mentions
him of invading Sindh because of the piracy problem in the Arabian sea,
looting and prisoning the Arab ships, who dominated in world trade.
whoca...@my-deja.com
future. All Pakistanis are by products of garbage. Indians are indians
which means that they do not care about other races unlike frigging
pakistanis wahabee wannabees product of garbage.
Fuck Pakistan heheheheheheheheheehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
In article <938sg1$r68$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
cyberpa...@aol.com
Night23 <nig...@nightynight.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Buddhist philosophy is exclusively derived from Hinduism. Find me any
> noted historian (not one from the "pakistani civilization" please) who
> says otherwise.
This is what J.A. Meadows states in "Ancient India":
"At the time of the Buddha, the Hindu caste system was firmly
established in India. According to the Hindu caste system, a person's
position in society was determined from the time he was born. There
were four castes or classes of people in Hindu society:
The Brahmins or Hindu priests, who claimed to be the highest caste and
the purest of peoples; the warriors ; the merchants and traders; the
untouchables considered the lowest class of workers and servants who
did all the menial jobs, and were treated as slaves.
The Buddha condemned the Hindu caste system, which he considered
unjust. He pointed out that there existed wicked and cruel people as
well as virtuous and kind people in every caste. Any person who had
committed a crime would be punished accordingly by his kamma no matter
what caste he belonged to. A person may be considered to have come from
a high or low caste according to his good and bad deeds. Therefore,
according to the Buddha it is the good and bad actions of a person and
not his birth that should determine a person's caste.
The Buddha introduced the idea of placing a higher value on morality
and the equality of man instead of into which family or caste a person
is born. It was also the first attempt to abolish discrimination and
slavery in the history of mankind.
The Buddha said:
'By birth one is not an outcaste,
By birth one is not a brahmin;
By deeds alone one is an outcaste,
By deeds alone one is a brahmin.'
It is not hard to see why Buddha's teaching was welcomed in ancient
Indian society. It condemned the greedy and corrupt religious practices
promoted by Hindu Brahmans on the one hand, and the austere asceticism
of the Jains and other mystic cults on the other. It also did away with
the Hindu sacrifices and rituals, the myriads of Hindu gods and
godesses, and the burdensome Hindu caste system that dominated and
enslaved every aspect of people's life. In short, it promised
liberation to everyone who was willing to follow the Buddha's way, a
distinct religion against the very essense of Hinduism".
I can post many other sources! Just tell any Buddhist (a Tibetan,
Japanese, Thai, etc) that Buddhism is part of Hinduism or derived from
Hinduism and see how upsettingly they would disagree with you. Perhaps
one can say that Buddhism is derived from Hinduism, but against every
basic concept it stands for! And then explain to us if Buddhism is part
of Hinduism, then why did the Brahmanists (Hindus) perpetrated a
genocide on Indian Buddhists and exterminated them:
Brahmanist assault on Indian Buddhists:
The massacres and oppression perpetrated by Brahmanist zealots out of
religious hatred for Buddhists in ancient times are a matter of the
historical record. Yet, for reasons best known to themselves,
Brahmanists have been trying to conceal the hideous, blood-stained
record of Hinduism.
The truth must be told.
As the revival of Brahmanical Hinduism progressed, atrocities against
Buddhists increased both in strength and in number. As Goyal [394]
notes, "According to many scholars hostility of the Brahmanas was one
of the major causes of the decline of Buddhism in India." The hatred
poured out against Buddhists in Hindu scriptures offers ample evidence
of this. To quote Goyal again [394-5]:
"Yajnavalkya (I. 271-72) declares that the very sight of a Buddhist
monk, even in dreams, is inauspicious. The Brhannaradiya-purana lays it
down as a principal sin for a Brahmana to enter the house of a Buddhist
even in times of great peril. The drama Mrchchhakatika shows that in
Ujjain the Buddhist monks were despised and their sight was considered
inauspicious. The Vishnupurana(XVIII 13-18) also regards the Buddha as
Mayamoha who appeared in the world to delude the demons. Kumarila is
said to have instigated King Sudhanvan of Ujjain to exterminate the
Buddhists. ... The Kerala- utpatti describes how he exterminated the
Buddhists from Kerala."
Earlier Post 7th Century Assualts on Buddhism
The Chinese traveller Yuan Chwang (Huen Tsang), who visited India in
the seventh century records the oppressions of Shashanka, the king of
Gauda, who was a devotee of Shiva. Yuan Chwang's account reads, "In
recent times Shashanka, the enemy and oppressor of Buddhism, cut down
the Bodhi tree, destroyed its roots down to the water and burned what
remained." [Watters II p.115] He also says that Shashanka tried "to
have the image (of Lord Buddha at Bodhgaya) removed and replaced by one
of Shiva". Another independent account of Shashanka's oppressions is
found in the Aryamanjushrimulakalpa, which refers to Shashanka
destroying "the beautiful image of Buddha" [Jayaswal, 49-50].
Another prominent seventh century murderer of Buddhists was Sudhanvan
of Ujjain, already mentioned in the quotation from Goyal above as
having been supposedly instigated by Kumarila Bhatt. Madhava Acharya,
in his "Sankara-digvijayam" of the fourteenth century A.D., records
that Suddhanvan "issued orders to put to death all the Buddhists from
Ramesvaram to the Himalayas".
Nalanda Destroyed by Hindu Zealots
Even after the Islamic invasions of India, Brahmanist bigotry and
hatred for Buddhists was not subdued. According to Sharmasvamin, a
Tibetan pilgrim who visited Bihar three decaes after the invasion of
Bakhtiaruddin Khilji in the 12th century, the biggest library at
Nalanda was destroyed by Hindu mendicants who took advantage of the
chaos produced by the invasion.
He says that "they (Hindus) performed a Yajna, a fire sacrifice, and
threw living embers and ashes from the sacrifice into the Buddhist
temples. This produced a great conflagration which consumed Ratnabodhi,
the nine-storeyed library of the Nalanda University". [Prakash, 213].
Numerous destroyed Buddhist shrines were converted into Hindu temples
after their destruction. Ahir [58] notes that "The Seat of Buddha's
Enlightenment was in the possession of a Hindu Mahant till 1952. Huen
Tsang, tells us that in the seventh century A.D. not only was the Bodhi
Tree at Gaya cut down by the Shaivite Shashanka, but that that worthy
tried to install an image of Shiva in place of that of the Tathagata.
One easy conclusion: there was not at that time an idol of Shiva at the
spot; now, there is a shivalingam in the temple. The Indian Supreme
court has not given its verdict in the case after 50 years!
Similarly, at Kushinara, where the Buddha had entered into
Mahaparinirvana, the cremation stupa had been converted into a Hindu
temple, and on top of it stood the temple of Rambhar Bhavani when
Cunningham discovered the site in 1860-61.
Among the shrines which still continue to be dedicated to Hindu gods
mention may be made of the Caityas of Chezrala and Ter in Andhra
Pradesh which are now Shiva and Vishnu temples respectively. The temple
of Madhava at Sal Kusa, opposite Gauhati in Asam, was once a sacred
shrine of the Buddhists. ... And the famous Jagannatha temple at Puri
in Orissa was also originally a Buddhist shrine. Similarly, the
Vishnupada temple at Gaya was also once a Buddhist shrine." As
Rajendralal Mitra notes in his famous work of 1878 [quoted in Ahir, 59]
the feet of Buddha at Gaya were rechristened the feet of Vishnu and
held as the most sacred object of worship in the new Vishnupada temple.
Hinduism's record of violence and bigotry against the peaceful
followers of Lord Buddha is unparalleled. I trust this marshalling of
the available evidence for the benefit of readers who may not have had
access to it will impel Brahmanists to accept and apologise for the
crimes committed in the name of Hinduism.
Bibliography.
Ahir, D.C. "Buddha Gaya Through the Ages", Bibliotheca Indo-Buddhica
Series No. 134, Delhi 1994.
Goyal, S.R., "A History of Indian Buddhism", Meerut 1987. Jayaswal, "An
imperial history of India", Lahore 1934.
Joshi, L.M. "Studies in the Buddhistic Culture of India", New Delhi
1967.
Marshall, John, "Taxila" Cambridge University Press 1951.
Prakash, Buddh, "Aspects of Indian History and Civilisation", Agra 1965.
Taranatha, "History of Buddhism in India", Indian Institute of Advanced
Studies, Simla, 1977.
Vaidya, P.L. ed. "Divyavadana", Darbhanga 1959.
Watters, T. "On Yuan Chwang's Travels in India," ed. by T. W. Rhys
Davids and S.W. Bushel, London 1904, 1905.
More on the Brahmanist genocide of Buddhism in India:
http://www.dalitstan.org/books/decline/index.html
>
> > The region and people that is composed of present-day Pakistan! With
>
> What are you going to claim next - there was a bangladeshi
civilization
> 4000 yrs ago??
Of course the region of Bangladesh has an ancient history! For a
change, think with your brain. Geo-political boundaries and
nomenclatures may change with time, but a people's and land's history
does not change!
>India was a characteristically different and unique
India was and is a continent with many languages, races, cultures,
nations, religions, histories, etc. It is more diverse and divisive
than Europe.
Present-day "India" is the remnant of the artificial administrative
unit created by the British colonial rulers. That administrative unit
is not a nation or a country by any natural definition. It is a
conglomeration of many nationalities that the British conquered one by
one and consolidated into a single administrative unit for ease of
governance. No administrative unit, country, nation or empire of this
nature and geographical extent existed in the Southasian Subcontinent
before the British conquest.
The word "India" itself was an European invention, which they (the
British colonialists and others) collectively imposed on the many
conquered
nations of Southasia, simply as a geographic term (In the words of W.
Churchill, "India is no more a country than the Equator"). "India" is
derived from "Ind," a word borrowed from the ancient Greeks and Romans,
who used it ("Ind") to only denote the region of Indus valley
(Sindh-u) and not the region of present-day India. The Greek-Roman word
of "Ind" is actually the corruption of the Persian word "Hind". Ancient
Persians
also called only the region of Indus Valley as "Hind(a)," which is the
altered form of the indigenous word for the region: "Sindh(u)". It was
only starting from the Muslim era, that "Hind" was further used by
Muslim invaders to mostly denote the region of present-day India,
while "Sindh" (then comprising most of
present-day Pakistan) retained it's name.
It is shameful for today's "Indians/Hindus" that the present-day terms
of "India, Hindustan, Hind, and Hindu" were given by the Muslim
invaders and British colonialists, derived from "Sindh(u)," which (i.e
Sindh-u) has nothing to do with them, not to mention it is not even
part of present-day India. Even "Bharat" was actually the name for a
small ancient Aryan kingdom in the Jumna-Ganges region of north India,
which is derived from an invading Aryan
tribe called "Bharatas" from the region of Afghanistan.
>
> And who did they absorb?
> Mohenjo daro is older than the arrival of aryans.
The newcomers and the ruling elite, the Aryans were able to absorb the
Harappans among them! The Harappans definitely influenced them heavily,
but it was the Aryan culture that dominated/prevailed.
> The builders of Mohenjo Daro were Dravidas of Southern India,
> excavations of sculptures prove this conclusively. In the linguistic
> map there is, in the now arid highlands of baluchistan, an isolated
> pocket representing a language - Brahui - of Dravid origin.
These are only theories! There is no solid evidence yet, as Indus
script remains undeciphered! Brauhis are indeed Dravidian, but because
of their nomadic and warlike culture, most archeologists believe that
they probably migrated from south India during the Medeival era, and
are not descendents of Harappans. But yes it is true that some do
hypothyze them as Harappan descendents---again no evidence for it!
Harappan language could be Dravidian, Indo-European, or even some
unrelated/extinct language (like those of the Sumerians). Even if
Harappans were Dravidian, it does not have to mean that they fled to or
came from south India. For example, Brauhi is classified as a northern
branch of Dravidian languages. Before the Aryan invasion, most of India
was Dravidian and Austric -speaking.
cyberpa...@aol.com
1. Physiognomy
The Sudroid (Indo-African) Race
The Sudran, or Sudroid, race refers to the aboriginal populations of
India, which still represents about 80% of Indians:
Sudroid
疋ravidoids (speakers of Dravidian languages)
俵ntouchables or Avarans
柊ntyajas/Dalits/SC
柊divasis/ST
彪edic Shudrs (Aryanized and enslaved blacks)
They are a black race, closely related to the Africans and Australoids,
as evident from -
稗lack skin , broad noses , thick lips and wavy-curly hair
畢inguistically, all the languages are related.
膝enetically they are closely related
1.1 Black Skin
The most evident similarity between Africans and Sudroids is their
black skin colour. It often approaches deep black, and when shiny
resemble tar. The Adi Dravidas (true Dravidians) of South India are
black like the Africans with a slightly different hair texture [
Win.gen ].
1.2 Nasal Index
The nose of Sudroids closely resembles that of Negroids and
Australoids, being very broad. In both pure black African and pure
Sudroid it is often as wide as it is broad, ie. the nasal index (ratio
of width to height) is 100. By contrast Caucasians are fine-nosed. The
Indo-Aryan is thus very similar to the European, possessing a fine
nose, while the Sudroid is related to the Africans -
Race Nasal Index Nasal Type
Arya (Indo-Aryan)
Brahman (Bengal) 70.3 fine-nosed sub-
leptorrhine Rajput 71.6 fine-nosed sub-
leptorrhine Vaisya (Jat) 68.8 fine-nosed
leptorrhine Vaisya (Bania) 79.6 medium-nosed
mesorrhine
Sudroid
Dravidian (Kadian) 89.8 broad-nosed
platyrrhine Dalit (Chamar) 86.0 broad-nosed
platyrrhine Adivasi (Munda) 89.9 broad-nosed
platyrrhine Vedic Shudrs (Dom) 83.0 broad-nosed sub-
platyrrhine
-- [ Ris App. III p.395 ff ]
By comparison, the French of Paris average 69.4 [ Ris 28-9 ], while
pure Africans average between 90 and 100.
1.3 Wavy-Curly Hair & Thick Lips
The hair of Sudroids is wavy and often curly, with imported Africans (
eg. the Makranis, the Siddis of Sind and the Dakhin ) it is frizzy. It
is a common misconception to asume all Africoids have frizzy hair; it
is often curly and wavy in Nubia and Abyssinia.
Curly Hair -
Friedrich Mueller classified black races according to hair texture,
classing them under the tufted-haired peoples ( Bushmen, Hottentots and
Papuans ), fleece-haired peoples ( Bantu and Negro ) and wavy-haired
peoples ( Hamitic, Semitic and Nuba-Fulla ).
-- [ EB `Languages of the World' ]
Another trait in common is the thick everted lips [ Arav.neg ] .
1.4 Prognathism
Pronounced prognathism is characteristic of all black races from Africa
to southern India and Oceania - Australia. In addition, the teeth are
relatively larger in case of Australoids and Kolarians, as well as
Dravidians.
1.5 Skeletal Similarities
Long Forearm -
The forearm of Suroids and Africans are long.
Dolicocephaly -
Dolicocephaly ( long-headedness ) is common amongst Sudras. In fact,
many are classed as hyperdolicocephalic. Dolicocephaly is common
amongst East Africans in general ( Nilotes, Sudanic Blacks and
Cushites - Hamites or Abyssinians )
2. Ethnographic Evidence
2.1 Boomerang & Hunting Customs
The boomerang is used by Dravidian abroginals, Australoids and is
recorded from Egypt.
2.2 Theological
Both Africans and Dravidians held a common interest in teh cult of the
Serpent and believed tn a Supreme God, who lived in aplace of peace and
tranqulity. Murugan the Dravidian god of the mounatins parallels a
common god in East Africa worshipped by 25 ethnic groups called
Murungu, the god who resides in the mountains [ Win.gen ]
2.3 Burial & Death Rites
Burning of the dead body is a characteristic of Indo-Aryans, while
burial of the dead was common to Indo-Africans. In both South India and
the Western Sudan and Senegambia the dead were buried and interned in
terra cotta jars [ Singh ] [ Win.gen ]
2.4 Circumcision & Initiation Rites
Circumcision, both male and female, was practiced by Dravidians and is
still widely practiced in Africa.
2.5 Agricultural
Both groups use the hoe for tilling the ground, manuring the ground to
fertilize crops, terracing irrrigation and canal building.
Wheat of the 6-row variety, which is found in predynastic graves in
Egypt, has been discovered at Harappan sites dating much later, as late
as 2300-1750 BC. On the Gangetic plain, barley was found at neolithic
Hallum in Mysore state (1800 BC). Pearl millet has been found at
Saurasthra and Ahar (1200-100 BC). Indian sorghum is clearly of African
origin. Cultivated cotton which came from West Africa appear at Mohenjo-
Daro and harrapa from 2300-1700 BC. [ Win.agri ]
2.6 Building Construction & Ship-Building
Both races used a single log or planks tied together
2.7 Inheritance
Among the ali tiravitar (Adi Dravidas, or real Dravidians), the system
of inheritance passes from the uncle to his nephews, instead of his
sons (maru makkal tayam) as in Africa [ Win.gen ]
2.8 Calendrical
The Dravidians and Africans used the same calendrical systema [
Win.agri ].
3. Archaeological
3.1 Megalithic Cultures
Megalithic cultures in India and Africa dating to the third millenium
BC are very similar: both contain black-and-red ware, bones and pottery
sarcophagi near water tanks [ Win:Agri ]. Cave paintings are also very
similar, pointing to ancient contacts.
3.2 Pottery : Red-and-Black Ware
The black races are consistently associated with red-and-black pottery
all over the world. Pottery of the Nubians is very similar to Dravidian
pottery.
4. Linguistic
The most evident linguistic connections between African and Dravidian
languages is in place-names:
Africa India
------ ------
Botswana, Bophutatswana (reg) Gondwana (region)
Ubangi (river) Bhangi (caste)
Gonder (town, reg.) Gond (tribe)
Galla (tribe) Goala (caste), Gaya (town)
Kongo (river, reg., tribe) Kongu Nadu (reg.), Kond or Khond
(tribe) Imbangala (tribe) Bangala or Bengal (tribe,
reg.)
謬he `Congo' river and the `Kongo' tribes are cognate to the Kongu Nadu
comprising the Salem tract in Tamil Nadu prior to its conquest by the
Cholas [ EB 10 salem 350 ]. 謬he suffix `-wana' is common to Bantu and
Dravidian languages, thus Botswana and Bophuthatswana in southern
Africa [ EB 2 botswana 412 ] [ EB 2 boph. 376 ] and Gondwana in central
India [ EB 5:358 ]. 謬he Mbangala or Imbangala warrior tribe of central
Angola [ EB 6: imb. 266 ] are cognate to the Bangala tribe and the
region named after them in eastern India, which later became
Bengal. 謬he Ubangi river [ EB ubangi 12:98 ] is the largest right-bank
tributary of the Congo river and flows past Bangui town (the capital of
the Central African Republic). A black tribe (and later low caste) by
the name of Bhangi exists in northern India. The Bangweulu is a large
lake and swamp region in northeastern Zambia. In Bantu the term denotes
`Large Water' [ EB 1 bangw. 868 ] 謬he Galla are the largest ethnic
group in Ethipia, forming 40 % of the population [ EB 5 galla 87 ].
They are cattle- herders, as are the black-skinned low-caste known as
Goala (cow-herders) in central India. 謬he Mbundu are the second-
largest ethnic group of Angola [ EB 7 mbundu 986 ] while the Munda are
in Eastern India. 謬he Ndongo tribe of the Mbundu [ EB 7 mbundu 986 ]
are perhaps cognate to the Dombas or Doms of India. 謬he Godabas of
Somalia may have given their name to the Godavari River in the
Deccan. 匹ongates of `gond' and `gong' are widepread in Africa and
Dravidia. Gonder or Gondar is the ancient capital of Ethiopia 1652-1855
as well as the surrounding region. The Gongola river is the primary
tributary of the Benue River, while the Gongola basin is in
northeastern Nigeria [ EB 5 gongola 359 ]. The Guang or Gonja in
northern Ghana, who are descendant of Mandingos, speak the Gur and Goja
languages and founded the Gonja kingdom [ EB 5 guang 532 ] The Gond are
a large group of Draviidan tribes in Central India.
The Congolese linguist Th. Obenga proposed the term `Indo-African'
languages in analogy with `Indo-European' [ Obenga ]. Prof. L.
Homburger established close linguistic connections between Dravidian
and Senegalese languages especially Fulani, as well as Kannada - Bantu
and Telugu - Mande relationships [ Hom ]. Prof. Tuttle established
connections between Nubian and Dravidian languages [ Tuttle ]. Prof.
Lahoverty established conections between African and Dravidian
languages [ Lah ]. Senegalese and Dravidian languages are closely
related grammatically, structurally and lexically [ N'D ] [ Ups ]. The
Upper Nile basin is considered by some scholars to be the original home
of the Dravidians on linguistic grounds [ Win.gen 1118 ]
Dravidian legends mention an ancient landmass which disappeared into
the Ocean. The Tamils say that it was highly populated and included
large cities, now buried beneath the sea. Tamil historians have
discussed this land mass in detail throughout history; eg.
Ariyarkkunallar in the 12th century. Linguistic evidence indicates that
the Dravidians are related to the C-group Nubians of the Western Sahara
who built the Kerma empire. Since Egypt was often at war with Kerma,
the connection across Lemuria seems more plausible. [Winters:Agri]
5. Genetic
The Sudroid and Africoid peoples are also genetically closely related.
The genetic similarities between Africans and Sudrics include:
膝lucose-6-Phosphate dehydrogenase deficiency 膝ene for sickle-cell
anemia is common 髭nzymes providing malaria resistance are present
The Kolarians (Indo-Australoids) share many genetic similarities with
the Australoids and Oceanic Negroids. Genetic similarities of the
Kolarians with the Australoids and Oceanic Negroids include :
膝lucose-6-Phosphate dehydrogenase deficiency and alcohol
intolerance 柊 large ratio of B type blood 紐arity of Rhesus
negative 紐arity of P2 gene 紐arity of A type, and especially
A2 百hovel-shaped incisors are common 畢ow bi-zygomatic diameter
In addition, the hair is frequently reddish to blonde in childhood in
the case of Australoid Blackfellows, Dravidians and Kolarians.
Genetic Studies of mtDNA of Dravidians in Andhra displayed a close
similarity with African populations [ Bam ].
6. Zoological & Botanical Evidence
Zoological and Botanical similarities are numerous between animal and
plant species of Africa, Australia and South India (Dravidia). This
indicates that the similarity of humans extends to the plant and animal
kingdoms as well. These similarities arise from either migration across
the Suez and the MIddle East into India and thence to Australia, or due
to submerged land bridges in the Indian Ocean.
6.1 Reptiles
Python - The python is found from western Africa to China, Australia
and the Pacific Islands. The slender reticulated python is probably the
world's longest snake, often reaching 8 m ( 26 feet ) with one specimen
recorded as 9.6 m in length. The Indian python is usually less than 4 m
but is much thicker and sometimes reaches 8m in length. The African
python often reaches 7 m while the species in West Africa ( the
Ball/Royal python ) is, as expected, smaller, reaching 1.5 m. The blood
python of Malaya, Sumatra and Borneo is reddish and averages 2.7 m. --
[ EB 9 `python' 828 ]
Mangrove Snake -
The manrove snake, comprising 30 species of hte genus Boiga, is found
from tropical Africa to Australia and Polynesia [ EB 7`mangr.'774 ].
6.2 Mammals
Rhinoceros -
The term denotes any of 5 species of the family Rhinocerotidae ( and
sometimes includes extinct fossil genera ). These animals are found
only in eastern and southern Africa and tropical Asia, lending further
support to the unity of vegetation of Africa and India and indicating
that recent exchange of zoo- botanicl contact existed much after the
breakup of Gondwanaland. The great Indian rhino ( R. unicornis ) is the
largest of all extant species, reaching 4.3 m in length and 2 m in
height at the shoulder, while the Sumatran rhino is the smallest (
height 2.5 m or 8 foot and 2 m high ).
-- [ EB 10 `rhino' 23 ]
Buffalo - Buffalos are again common to Africa and the Indies, while the
related bison/wisent occurs in North America and Europe. The black
Indian buffalo ( Bubalus bubalus ) reaches 1.5 m of more at the
shoulder, as does the black Cape or African buffalo ( Syncerus
caffer ). A red-brown subspecies of the Cape buffalo in the dense
forests of equatorial western Africa is, like humans and animals of
West Africa in general, much smaller. The anoa, a small dark brown
buffalo of the dense Celebes rainforests and the tamaraw of the
Philippines are also smaller species. -- [ EB 2 `buffalo' 607 ]
Elephant -
The elephant once again is restricted to the Indies and Africa. 3
species exist: the Indian elephant, the large African elephant and the
dwarfish Pygmy elephant of the rainforests of West Africa.
-- [ EB 4 `elephant' 441-2 ]
Felidae (Felines) - The lion was once found in Africa, Europe and Asia.
Now it is found only in sub- Saharan Africa and in India (eg. the Gir
National Forest, Gujarat) [ EB 7 `lion' 382-3 ]. The leopard is found
from Africa trough Anatolia, Central Asia, India, China and Manchuria.
Varieties include the Barbary, South Arabian, ANantolian, Amur, SInai
leopards [ EB `leo.' 281 ]
6.3 Botanical
Baobab Tree - The baobab trees ( Adansonia digitata ), belonging to the
bombax family (Bombacaceae) are native to Africa. However, a closely
related and very similar tree, also known as baobab ( Adansonia
gregoria ), occurs in Australia ! [ EB 1 `baobab' 877 ]
Banyan Tree -
The banyan tree ( Ficus benghalensis ) with its characteristic prop
roots that resemble trunks is native to India. However, a similar
variety, the wonderboom ( Ficus pretoia ) of Africa is very similar [
EB 28 `trees' 881 ] !
Capparaceae Trees - Trees of the order Capparaceae, family moringaceae
occur from Africa to India [ EB 13`angio.'638 ] and are another
indication of the unity of Indian and African botanical life.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Appendix I - The Sudran Races
The Sudra, or Indo-African, Race consists of the following sub-races:
疋ravidian - Dravidian-speaking Sudras: 百ettled Dravidians - Tamils,
Mallas/Malabaris, and Karnadas 柊divasi Dravidas in North India (Gonds,
Bhils, Brahui etc.) and South India (Tulus, Kurumba etc.) 必olarians -
Austric-Speaking Blacks or Indo-Australoid Sudras. 疋alits - Hindicized
Aboriginal Blacks and imported Africans (Habshis), SC in North India
Appendix II - Origin of the Term Sudra
The term Shudra first appears in Sanskrit texts around 1500 BC denoting
one of the black aboriginal tribes that the Aryans conquered. It was
subsequently expanded to all blacks subjugated, and the term Dasa or
Dasyu , or slave, was used to denote the servitude to which most Sudras
were subjected. Sanskrit texts refer to the Shudra as the black varna
or colour. Thus Shudra is equivalent as a racial term to the Latin
Negra . Initially it only referred to subjugated aboriginals and not
the aboriginals themselves who were referred to as avarna and later
Adiavasi. Thus the terms Adivasi and Sudra were exclusive. Later under
Muslim rule Arabic: sudd-> black and hence Sudra 9not Shudra) became
the generic term for Indian blacks.
In its modern sense Sudra denoted any black man in India and hence
includes the following sub-races:
疋ravidians - Speakers of Dravidian languages. This includes
百outh Indian Dravidians or Settled Dravidians
謬amils 筆allas/Malabaris : Malayalis, Mallas 必aranad
柊divasi or Aboriginal Dravidians (eg. Tulu, Kurumba)
必olarians - Kolarian speakers, incl. Mundas, Oraons, Santal,
Ho 疋alits - Hindicized Sudras. This includes
菱abshis or Hindicized Abyssinians 菱indicized Kols, eg. Bhuiyas
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The term Shudra is first recorded from Sanskrit texts as referring to
one of the black aboriginal tribes that the Aryans encountered. It is
the name of a black tribe that was adopted into Sanskrit and was
subsequently used to denote those blacks who had entered the caste
system as the lowest `varna' or color. They were the black varna.
Initially, a distinction was drawn between Sudra and Adivasi
(aboriginal blacks outside the caste system). However, in Prakrits the
distinction was blurred, and Shudra was used for any aboriginal. During
the Islamic Califate of Hindustan, Arabic became a sacred language, and
in Arabic `sudd' means black ( hence the `bilad as-Sudan' or the Sudan
of Africa ), and hence Sudra was used for any black, even the blacks
imported from Africa. Terms of Abuse incl. Kalu kalia Kaluta kaffir
English Hindustani Negro (Latin "negri") Sudra (Sans. "Shudra",
Arab. "Sudd",black Black Kala
Appendix III - Nasal Index
The classification in general use is - leptorrhine (fine nose) if the
nasal index is < 70, mesorrhine is it is between 70-85 and platyrrhine
(broad-nosed) if it is > 85. The Indo-Aryan is comparable to the
European, fopr the French of Paris have a nasal index of 69.4 as
measurd by Topinard [ Ris 28-9 ]. According to Sir H.H.Risley, the nose
of Sudras is very similar to that of the lowest Negro types. The nasal
index frequently reaches more than 100. The Paniyans of Malabar have an
average nasal index of 95, while certain individual Kadias of Tamil Nad
measured 115. [ Ris App.III p.369].
Race Nasal Index Nasal Type
Indo-Aryan (Arya)
Brahman (Bengal) 70.3 sub-leptorrhine
Brahman (Bihar) 73.2 sub-leptorrhine
Brahman (Bhojpur) 74.6 sub-leptorrhine
Rajput 71.6 sub-leptorrhine
Kayasth (Bengal) 70.3 sub-leptorrhine
Jat 68.8 leptorrhine
Vaisya (Bania) 79.6 sub-leptorrhine
Gujjar 66.9 leptorrhine
Sikhs 68.8 leptorrhine [ Ris 28-9 ]
Sudroid
Paniyans (Malabar) 95.1 platyrrhine
Santal 88.8 platyrrhine
Munda 89.9 platyrrhine
Kol 82.2 sub-platyrrhine
Kadia 89.8 platyrrhine
Vellala 73.1 sub-platyrrhine
Tamil Brahman 76.7 sub-platyrrhine
Asur (Lohardaga) 95.9 platyrrhine
Bhil 84.1 sub-platyrrhine
Pariah 80.0 sub-platyrrhine
Irula 80.9 sub-platyrrhine
Kadia 89.8 platyrrhine
Musahar 88.7 platyrrhine
Chamar 86.0 platyrrhine
Dom 83.0 sub-platyrrhine
-- [ Ris App. III p.395 ff ]
Certain more recent analysts wish to refute Risley's claims [ Ghurye ]
[ Bose ] but their results lack the depth and quality of RIsley's.
Appendix IV - Linguistic Relationships
The most evident linguistic connections between African and Dravidian
languages is in place-names:
Africa India
------ ------
Botswana, Bophutatswana (reg) Gondwana (region)
Ubangi (river) Bhangi (caste)
Gonder (town, reg.) Gond (tribe)
Gongola Gond
Gonga (people,Ghana) Gond
Galla (tribe) Goala (caste), Gaya (town)
Kongo (river, reg., tribe) Kongu Nadu (reg.), Kond or Khond
(tribe) Imbangala (tribe) Bangala or Bengal (tribe,
reg.) Tsonga (tribe) Tunga (Kalinga abor. rulg.
family) Tonga (tribe) Tunga
Pongo Pandya (Tamil dyn.), Ponda
Kadamba Kurumba (tribe, dyn.)
Katanga (distt., Congo) Kurumba
Karanga (eth.Zimbab.) Kurumba
Kamba (n.e. Bantu) Kadamba (or Kurumba)
Sotho, Basuto (tr., S.Afr.) Sudra (caste)
Aja (tr., Nigeria) Anga
Kinga (tr.) Kalinga (natn)
Ila (tr.) Irula
Ila Bhilla
Toga Toda
Ganda (tr.) Ganda (anus, Sans.)
Mamba Malla, Malaya, Malabar
Nuer Nayar (caste)
Pongo Pengu (tr.,Orissa)
Mende (w.afr.people) Manda (Drav.people)
Zulu (tr., S.Af.) Tulu
Uganda Konda (Dr.tr.), Gonda
Iramba (rift Bantu) Irula
Turu (rift Bantu) Tulu
Masai (e. Nilotes) Malay or Malabar, Mallas
Kinga (Nyasa Bantu, Tanz.) Kalinga (natn.,race)
Manyika Mleccha (sans. for barbarian)
The `Congo' river and the `Kongo' tribes are cognate to the Kongu Nadu
comprising the Salem tract in Tamil Nadu prior to its conquest by the
Cholas [ EB 10 salem 350 ]. The suffix `-wana' is common to Bantu and
Dravidian languages, thus Botswana and Bophuthatswana in southern
Africa [ EB 2 botswana 412 ] [ EB 2 boph. 376 ] and Gondwana in central
India [ EB 5:358 ]. The Mbangala or Imbangala warrior tribe of central
Angola [ EB 6: imb. 266 ] are cognate to the Bangala tribe and the
region named after them in eastern India, which later became Bengal.
The Ubangi river [ EB ubangi 12:98 ] is the largest right-bank
tributary of the Congo river and flows past Bangui town (the capital of
the Central African Republic). A black tribe (and later low caste) by
the name of Bhangi exists in northern India. The Bangweulu is a large
lake and swamp region in northeastern Zambia. In Bantu the term denotes
`Large Water' [ EB 1 bangw. 868 ] The Galla are the largest ethnic
group in Ethipia, forming 40 % of the population [ EB 5 galla 87 ].
They are cattle- herders, as are the black-skinned low-caste known as
Goala (cow-herders) in central India. The Mbundu are the second-largest
ethnic group of Angola [ EB 7 mbundu 986 ] while the Munda are in
Eastern India. The Ndongo tribe of the Mbundu [ EB 7 mbundu 986 ] are
perhaps cognate to the Dombas or Doms of India. The Godabas of Somalia
may have given their name to the Godavari River in the Deccan. Congates
of `gond' and `gong' are widepread in Africa and Dravidia. Gonder or
Gondar is the ancient capital of Ethiopia 1652-1855 as well as the
surrounding region. The Gongola river is the primary tributary of the
Benue River, while the Gongola basin is in northeastern Nigeria [ EB 5
gongola 359 ]. The Guang or Gonja in northern Ghana, who are descendant
of Mandingos, speak the Gur and Goja languages and founded the Gonja
kingdom [ EB 5 guang 532 ] The Gond are a large group of Draviidan
tribes in Central India.
The Congolese linguist Th. Obenga proposed the term `Indo-African'
languages in analogy with `Indo-European' [ Obenga ]. Prof. L.
Homburger established close linguistic connections between Dravidian
and Senegalese languages especially Fulani, as well as Kannada - Bantu
and Telugu - Mande relationships [ Hom ]. Prof. Tuttle established
connections between Nubian and Dravidian languages [ Tuttle ]. Prof.
Lahoverty established conections between African and Dravidian
languages [ Lah ]. Senegalese and Dravidian languages are closely
related grammatically, structurally and lexically [ N'D ] [ Ups ]. The
Upper Nile basin is considered by some scholars to be the original home
of the Dravidians on linguistic grounds [ Win.gen 1118 ]
Clear relationships have been established between Dravidian and
Australoid languages [ Holmer ] [ Bleek ] [ 3 Oc. 189 ].
Apendix V - Lemuria
Dravidian legends mention an ancient landmass which disappeared into
the Ocean. The Tamils say that it was highly populated and included
large cities, now buried beneath the sea. Tamil historians have
discussed this land mass in detail throughout history; eg.
Ariyarkkunallar in the 12th century. Linguistic evidence indicates that
the Dravidians are related to the C-group Nubians of the Western Sahara
who built the Kerma empire. Since Egypt was often at war with Kerma,
the connection across Lemuria seems more plausible. [Winters:Agri]
The English zoologost Philip Sclater propsed the theory of the
continent of Lemuria in the mid-1800s [ 3 Oc. 127 ]
Appendix V - Miscellaneous Notes
The Asurs of Lohardaga [ Ris p.399 ] Dravidian
`In fact the word `Kol' is a loose term used by the Hindus of the
plains as a word of derision. De Meulder describes it as an Indian
equivalent of the word `nigger' in the US ... [for scientific purposes
Kol includes teh Larka Kols or Hos of Man and Dhalbhhum, the Munda Kols
of Chotanagpur and the Bhumij ... The Hos are physically [supereior] to
the other cognate branches of the Kolarian tribes... p.9 `The constatnt
early use of teh bow expanded the chest and set the muscles and their
innate passion for the chase over the steep and rugged hills brought
their lower limbs nto a state of fitness, which the best phulwan
(wrestler) of the plains of India might envy. Male height average 5'5"
or 5'6" height women 5'2" .. copper tint complexion common women
physically hetter ... developed Aryan influence ... more than 50 % of
the population in Chota Nagpur division.' -- [C.P.Singh p.8]
Habshi
for hundreds of years . Excavations in Afghanistan show that Hindu
Shiva follower Kings were ruling there as late as 1100 AD - so much
for the Afghans are Buddhists stuff , in fact as in the rest of India
, Hinduism had reasserted itself as it is a religion of humans for
themselves .
Sikhs who still intermarry with Hindus and follow the same
customs - drinking alcohol , cremation , praising Hindu Gods like Ram
, Hanuman , Sita in their holy book , were ruling Pakistan and the
Hindu Dogra Kings all of Kashmir when the British arrived and saved
Islam .
Zeeshan Siddiqui
> Again you are showing your ignorance! No Pakistani claims to be Arab.
> Even the few that do have partial Arab blood do not call themselves
> Arab, but are proud Pakistanis.
You are right buddy ;-)
Night23
> This just confirms your ignorance! 75% of Indians are indeed "Indo-
> Aryan," but this is only a linguistic term
CIA factbook will give you the ETHNIC divisions of India quite nicely.
Ethnic divisions: Indo-Aryan 72%, Dravidian 25%, Mongoloid and other 3%
Are you out to prove that pakistanis (some of whom are ex-sudra converts
to islam like the mohajirs), are blond haired blue eyed men distinctly
different racial makeup from the average North Indian? As I said
before, Pakistanis wish they were born arabs and hate being pakistanis.
Nevermind the fact that most of them have been, shall we say, well
fertilized by Sikhs genes. Basically the average pakistani punjabi is a
sikh minus a turban.
> Obviously your ignorance is pure Indian propaganda! I dont know what
> planet you live in, but living in Pakistan and being a Pakistani
> myself,
Why do you deny pakistanis find every occassion to lick the butts of
arabs and put down India and even its own ansestral heritage? It is
FACT and evident everyday. Islam is a religion set up to worship arabs
and when you bow to mecca 5 times a day, what you are worshipping is
arab domination. That makes you a slave. Bangladeshi, paki, Indian
muslims, sudanese..etc etc muslims are third class muslims to arabs.
Perhaps you are in denial as to the poor treatment and less than subtle
discrimination against such persons in arab countries. Hence the need
to try and be more "islamic" than the arabs. Read the article below
written by one of your own countrymen.
> entity--India). Not to mention, the European word "India" is derived
> from Sindh, which you guys have nothing to do with, and it's not even
What is your point? Many countries have English names. Japan is known
as Nippon, India is known as Bharath, China is known as Chung
<something>. The only thing this proves is that the outside world had
recognized these regions as having a disctinct culture and gave them a
name of their own. This "pakistani civilization" you keep talking about
was part of what the west called India.
> but in NWFP, northern
> areas/Kashmir, northern Punjab, and most of Baluchistan, people look
> identical to the people of Afghanistan and Iran.
Most people from afghanistan or iran have black hair and black eyes and
are hairy. I have never seen any green eyes in pakistan and the
percentage of pakistanis with red hair is not even 1% of the
population. 90% of punjabis are sikhs minus a turban. By the way I
have relatives in pakistan so don't try to bullshit me here.
> Nonsense! There was no such thing as "Hindu" before the advent of
Hinduism has existed for some 4000 yrs. Religions do not "arise" the
moment some hoodlum arrives and gives it a name. Much like the
"pakistani civilization" which does not arise where none existed.
> Not true! Buddhism stood against the very essentials of Hinduism
The entire buddhism dharma is drawn from Hinduism. Renunciation of
family and social life by holy persons seeking truth first became
widespread when the Upanishads were written. Buddhism is not based on
arab worship or any alien concept. It is derived 100% from India and
the only philosophy it could be derived from is Hinduism. Without
Hinduism there would be no buddhism period. Why does every pakistani
try so hard to discredit its mother civilization and glorify the arabs?
I am sure the average pakistani would want his entire heritage wiped out
so he could be the arab wannabe he's always wanted to be.
> Aryans. Also, it is funny that you call Qasim a "pirate" when in fact,
> historians (and the only historical record on it--Chachnama) mentions
> him of invading Sindh because of the piracy problem in the Arabian sea,
Mohammad bin quasim did not "invade" to solve any piracy problem. He
invaded cos he himself was a pirate. Just like all the muslim hoodlums
who decended on the subcontinent, he was out to steal territory, kill
and force people (like you) into islam. He was dispatched from bhagdad
for this precise purpose. One does not "solve" a piracy problem by
invading and murdering in another land. That is basically the
definition of piracy both on land and at sea. It is the saddam hussein
style of mentality which has not changed since the time of mr. quasim
and much of all of islam which spread by forcing others into their
religion.
And now for the article :
-------------------
Owning our mother tongue
Dr Manzur Ejaz
After giving a terse and agitated performance at the press conference at
the Embassy of Pakistan, Washington, Foreign Minister Abdul Sattar
started enlightening some journalists on the side. He knew his press
conference was “full of sounds and fury” signifying nothing.
Therefore, to prove his intellectual mantel and to dispel the impression
of being void of content, he laid down his vision of the new world.
He described how Pakistan is culturally connected with Central Asia and
why Pakistan’s geographical situation is not indicative of its real
character. He lamented and blamed the jihadi forces for creating a wedge
between Pakistan and his dreamland, Central Asia. While explicating
connection between his real homeland and dreamland, he stumbled upon an
inner contradiction as to how a Punjabi from Norowal can be part of
Central Asia and not of the Indus civilisation. He spontaneously blurted
out his deep inner contradiction at a high pitch: “There is one
problem...we are stuck with the bloody Punjabi language”.
Mr Sattar’s undiplomatic expression of his inner thoughts reveals the
fundamental characteristics of Pakistan’s Punjabi elites who, in their
mind, are the sole proprietors of the Pakistani nationhood. One thing
obvious is that this elite has been ruthless in mutilating the
indigenous self-identity and the identity of the majority of Pakistanis
by exhibiting contempt towards people’s cultures and their language.
However, in showing resentment towards his mother tongue, Punjabi, Mr
Sattar also acknowledges that Punjabis are the real ruling elites who
are stuck with their mother tongue. He ignores Urdu, Sindhi, Pushto or
Balochi not because he has any empathy with these languages but because
he knows that the speakers of these languages are marginal in
determining the fate and direction of the Pakistani state.
Mr Sattar fondly remembers dozens of writers of Central Asia who had
been in contact with him when he was Pakistan’s ambassador to the Soviet
Union. However, it is more than certain that he cannot name a single
Sindhi, Balochi or Punjabi short story writer. Mr Sattar is not alone in
this league of ruling elites who take pride in studying English, Persian
and other languages from god-forsaken places but not the languages of
their motherland. While ruling East Bengal, they could not name any
Bengali writer. No wonder they were thrown out like all alien rulers are
dislodged eventually. However, they have not learned any lessons and it
appears they will never, at least, in a foreseeable future. Pakistan’s
ruling elite in general and the dominant Punjabis in particular have a
history of seeking alien identities in the Middle East, Ottoman empire,
Persia and Central Asia. This elite, comprised of military and
bureaucracy, were the mercenaries of the British empire and were
indifferent or hostile (in practice) to the interests of the people of
the region. The ideologues of present day Pakistan, religious superstars
and their compliments, were looking for a universal salvation for the
Muslim ummah. Both religious and so called secular elites are
interconnected in seeking alien identities. They were against the
indigenous solution for the people of this land.
Therefore, it is ironical that the ruling elites defining the
ideological boundaries of contemporary Pakistan were either indifferent
or against its creation. Pakistan, as a nation, has passed through
tumultuous times during the last 52 years but its ruling elites have
refused to alter its ideological discourse. They have perpetuated their
alienated mind sets by despising indigenous cultures and languages of
the people. What are people of a place without its culture and medium of
expression (language) through which they communicate their joy, sorrows,
love, hatred and matters of daily routine? Can one conceive an Arab a
Persian or a Turk without their respective languages and cultures? It is
the language and culture of one people that differentiates it from
others. The language and culture of a nation may be developed or
underdeveloped, crude or sophisticated, simple or intricate but they
carry the seeds of their being.
In fact, it is not the language and culture they despise; it is the
people themselves that they abhor. When Mr. Sattar dumps Punjabi, he
discards an entire spectrum of people who speak this language. He is
trying to get rid of his own self which belongs to Narowal. In short,
for elites, Pakistan is a place where they can make a comfortable
living. It is a mere abstraction or a vehicle, an instrument, that they
can use for
self-aggrandisement. So, in the name of nation, they fulfil their own
grandiose dreams and schemes. Ideological wars are preferred over a
pragmatic socio-political set up which can be conducive to economic
development and better quality of life.
It is ironic that while Mr Sattar was negating his self identity, a
non-Muslim research scholar from India, Prof Pritam Singh, was
delivering a lecture on the contribution by Muslims towards the
development of indigenous languages in the Indian sub-continent.
Addressing a mixed gathering of Muslims and others, Prof Pritam Singh
asserted that most of the modern languages of the region were adopted by
Muslim poets and
scholars first. Therefore, by negating indigenous languages, the
alienated elite is rejecting a powerful tradition established by the
Muslims of Indian subcontinent. Furthermore, the issue of language and
culture is not a mere emotional issue or a matter of prestige for any
ethnic or linguistic group. It can be shown that development of a
people’s language is closely linked with the enhancement of literacy
rate and economic growth
Most of the newly industrialised Asian countries impart education in
their mother tongues and raise a better stock of skilled workers.
Although language is not the only factor that contributes towards better
economic growth and a better quality of life, it plays an important role
nevertheless.
It should not be surprising if Bangladesh or countries of Central Asia
bypass Pakistan in economic development because of their closeness with
indigenous languages and cultures. Then Pakistan’s elites will be
idealising the economies of Central Asia along with their languages and
cultures.
cyberpa...@aol.com
Hab...@anon.net (Habshi) wrote:
> Even after Raja Dhir , the Hindu Rajputs recaptured Sindh and
ruled
> for hundreds of years .
Is this some kind of joke? After the Arab invasion, Sindh remained
under loose control of the Arabs and then became independent with
Muslim (Ismaili) kingdoms based in Mansura and Multan. This is true
until the arrival of the Ghaznavids!
>Excavations in Afghanistan show that Hindu
> Shiva follower Kings were ruling there as late as 1100 AD -
You must be referring to the Hindu Shahis! They were limited to a part
of northern Pakistan (plus Kabul valley of Afghntn) region. It were the
Turkic Shahis who ruled the region, until they were replaced by Rajput
Hindus from their administration, and thus became known as Hindu
Shahis. Keep in mind these Rajputs were descendents of White Huns,
having nothing to do with India! However, these Hindus were a small
ruling elite, whereas Buddhism and other non-Hindu religions were the
religion of the majority!
> Sikhs who
Sikhs are not Hindus! In fact, much of their religion is opposite to
Hinduism. E.g. they are against the Hindu caste system, idol-worship,
polytheism, they can eat beef, and much more! Anyway, their rule in the
northern region of Pakistan lasted for merely half a century, and have
nothing to do with India.
> Hindu Dogra Kings all of Kashmir
Yeah the Hindu Dogras who were traitors to the Sikh empire. And when
the British invaded the Sikh empire, they sold Kashmir to the feudal
Hindu Dogras as a gift for supporting the British!!
cyberpa...@aol.com
Night23 <nig...@nightynight.com> wrote:
> cyberpa...@aol.com wrote:
> CIA factbook will give you the ETHNIC divisions of India quite nicely.
> Ethnic divisions: Indo-Aryan 72%, Dravidian 25%, Mongoloid and other
3%
Again you show your ignorance! These ethnic divisions are based on
LANGUAGE/LINGUISTICS, not race/genetics! 72% are Indo-Aryan (Hindi,
Gujarati, Bengali, etc) speakers, 25% Dravidian (Tamil, Telugu, etc)
speakers, and 3% Mongoloid (Sino-Tibetan, i.e. Naga, etc) speakers! The
Indo-Aryan speakers of India are overwhelmingly
Dravidoid/Sudroid/Australoid by race/genetics. That is to say, these
indigenous peoples were simply Aryanized by the invading Aryans, thus
adopting their language/culture!
> Are you out to prove that pakistanis (some of whom are ex-sudra
converts
> to islam like the mohajirs),
You must have problem a with reading comprehension! No, what I am
saying is that unlike India, majority of Pakistanis are racially
similar to the people of Middle East and parts of Central Asia, which
is because of their history (pre- and post-Islamic) and geography.
> different racial makeup from the average North Indian?
NWFP, Northern Areas, Northern Punjab, and most of Baluchistan is
definitely very different from north India, and much similar to
Afghanistan and Iran. Yes, parts of the Punjab and Sindh does have
similarity with north India.
As I said
> before, Pakistanis wish they were born arabs and hate being
pakistanis.
You sound like a broken record of false Indian propaganda. Pakistanis
do not claim to be Arabs, and are proud of being Pakistanis. It is you
Indians who suffer from inferiority complex and claim other people's
distinct heritage (like Pakistan's) as your's.......experts in
hijacking and stealing other people's history. Not to mention you guys
give a godly status and proudly claim ancestory from barbaric Vedic
Aryans who perpetrated a genocide against your
Dravidoid/Sudroid/Australoid ancestors.
> Nevermind the fact that most of them have been, shall we say, well
> fertilized by Sikhs genes. Basically the average pakistani punjabi
is a
> sikh minus a turban.
Your cheap claims mean nothing! Even Sikhs are distinct from you
Indians, no wonder they are waging a freedom struggle from India, with
their own state of Khalistan in east Punjab!
>put down India and even its own ansestral heritage?
What India? India is an artificial entity which was created by the
British imperialists and upon their departure power transfered to the
Brahmanists! Why is it so hard for you guys to swallow facts?
It is
> FACT and evident everyday. Islam is a religion set up to worship
arabs
Obviously you dont know nothing about Islam! Islam is a religion for
all races and nationalities! We worship only one God! All Muslims are
equal. On the other hand you Hindus follow Brahmanism, where Brahmans
are suppose to be superior than others and Sudras-Dalits as the lowest
of the low with no rights, where the Aryan race looks down upon (and
oppresses) the Dravidoid-Sudroid natives, where you worship anything
and everything, etc etc...
> What is your point? Many countries have English names.
One again your incapability of comprehension! Not only "India" is an
English name, but the entity (country) itself was for the first time in
history created by the British imperialists. Never before was there any
country with similar size, etc in the region. South Asia was always a
region with many nations, kingdoms, languages, religions, cultures,
races, etc. Even Bharat was only a small Aryan kingdom in the Jumna-
Ganges region of north India!
Japan is known
>This "pakistani civilization" you keep talking about
> was part of what the west called India.
Oh really explain to me when? You must mean under British rule! I
challenge you to give me any historical fact (except for the Buddhist
Maurya, Muslim and British eras) in which the region of Pakistan was
ever part of present-day India!
>
> Most people from afghanistan or iran have black hair and black eyes
and
> are hairy.
Yeah the majority are indeed, the same features dominate in Pakistan.
>I have never seen any green eyes in pakistan
There are many, perhaps 10%.
and the
> percentage of pakistanis with red hair is not even 1%
Probably so!
of the
> population. 90% of punjabis are sikhs minus a turban.
Yeah whatever! By the way, turban is also common among many Pakistanis.
> Hinduism has existed for some 4000 yrs. Religions do not "arise" the
> moment some hoodlum arrives and gives it a name.
Boloney! Then what do you call the Harappans who were far from being
Hindus.... eating beef, no Hindu deities, ... not a single solid
evidence of them being Hindus! What about the Rigvedic Aryans who only
worshipped natural elements (animists), with no idolatory, eating beef,
caste-less, etc. etc.... Present-day Hinduism is based on Gangetic
Brahmanism, which was revived in the post-Buddhist period by the
Brahmanist zealots, and further enriched by the south Indian
Brahmanists. When I used Hinduism I mean Brahmanism, as "Hinduism" is a
bogus term invented by the Muslim-British invaders and imposed on the
various religions of India.
>
> The entire buddhism dharma is drawn from Hinduism.
LOL... so you keep being in denial! I even gave references that proves
that Buddhism is a distinct religion from Hinduism, specifically
originated against Brahmanism.
>
> Mohammad bin quasim did not "invade" to solve any piracy problem.
Yeah so the only historical document from that time, Chachnama is
lying, eh? Have the courage to accept historical facts!
Night23
> These ethnic divisions are based on
> LANGUAGE/LINGUISTICS, not race/genetics
Ethnic : A sizable group sharing a common and distinctive racial,
linguistic and cultural heritage.
> You must have problem a with reading comprehension! No, what I am
> saying is that unlike India, majority of Pakistanis are racially
What i see when i go to pakistan is just sikhs minus turbans. Most look
like the average north indian gujrati, rahjistani, punjabi one finds
anywhere in India. No amount of whitewashing history is going to change
sikhs minus turbans into an anything but what is essentially an indian.
> As I said
> > before, Pakistanis wish they were born arabs and hate being
> pakistanis.
>
> Pakistanis
> do not claim to be Arabs, and are proud of being Pakistanis.
That's not true, pakistanis want very much to be arabs. Just look at
your slavishness. Punjab which was well fertilized by sikhs is suddenly
part of central asia, punjab with no land boundary with iran is suddenly
more iranian... what is wrong with you? Why don't you just admit you
are ashamed to be who you are and get it over with. As that paki
diplomat said, "we are stuck with bloody punjabi". (Did you read the
article or did it reveal too much for you to swallow?) 90% of
pakistanis are paindoos who are no different from the average north
Indian except for the dying need to be worship and ape arabs.
> Your cheap claims mean nothing! Even Sikhs are distinct from you
> Indians,
Sikhs are Indian and unlike you are fiercely proud of their ansestory
and heritage. You ever heard of a Sikh who claims his ansestors came
from uzbekistan? Or a sikh who claimed his ansestors came from turkey?
Or a sikh who claim he came from iran?? These same sikhs who ruled your
slavish muslim arab wannabe asses and the asses of those in afghanistan
are Indians. They maintain pride in their culture and their history
which is filled with brave struggles of THEIR OWN PEOPLE against
aggressors, not trying to claim glory or worse yet, worshipping some
foreign bedouin who rode in to rape their buttocks! Pakis disgust me
with their slavishness.
> What India? India is an artificial entity which was created by the
The Indus civilization was where your ansestors were nurtured. The
muslim invasion was where your ansestors were raped & forced into
islam. If you choose the latter as your great moment in history and
your great heritage, then surely you have no self-respect. Which is why
I have said, pakis wish they were born arabs and hate being pakis. That
is the truth.
> Obviously you dont know nothing about Islam! Islam is a religion for
> all races and nationalities! We worship only one God!
The average pakistani happily supported genocide against bangladesh due
to bigotry. Apparently 3rd class muslims are not good enough to rule
punjabi ass. Ironically pakis themselves are treated like dogshit when
they arrive as manual laborers in arab countries. The average pakistani
does not give a fuck what happens to a sudanese negro muslim or for that
matter any muslim in africa or bangladesh. But mention the word bosnia,
and suddenly pakis are eager to prove themselves the greatest muslim
ever.
It reminds me very much of a time when that muslim guy dilip kumar
(yousuf khan) was basking in the limelight of the media regarding his
great gusto fund raising activities for bosnia. Till one reporter stood
up and asked him at a press conference, how is it he can raise so much
money for bosnians yet not one penny for many Indian muslims who are
probably much poorer than the average bosnian. And he was left fumbling
for words..
That to me is the pakistani "islam' mentality in a nutshell. It is just
slavery in which the slave tries to prove how great a muslim he can be
to a _select_ crowd.
> I
> challenge you to give me any historical fact (except for the Buddhist
> Maurya, Muslim and British eras) in which the region of Pakistan was
> ever part of present-day India!
Just look at your "bloody punjabi language". Did that come from
"central asia" or "turkey"? Friend, you are just trying to run from
your heritage.
> >I have never seen any green eyes in pakistan
>
> There are many, perhaps 10%.
10% my ass. 1 in 10 paindoos walking down the street does not have
green eyes. Besides green eyes is hardly representative of of pakistan
where majority have black beady eyes. Who are you trying to fool? You
are just desparate to be someone you are not.
> Boloney! Then what do you call the Harappans who were far from being
> Hindus....
> worshipped natural elements (animists), with no idolatory
Most of Indian tribal population practice animism. They are Hindus, not
Arabs. Hinduism is an elastic religion which encompasses all beliefs
and mythologies and ledgends of the Indian civilization.
> I even gave references that proves
> that Buddhism is a distinct religion from Hinduism, specifically
What references did you give, you just give some crap like "buddhism is
completely different from hinduism" and you think everyone is suppose to
believe your BS. Buddhist dharma is drawn from Hinduism, renunciation
of worldly desires, reincarnation, karma,... are all Hindu concepts.
Buddhism to most Indians is just another branch of Hinduism with many
Indians celebrating Purnima. Besides, what does it matter to you
anyway? Buddhism and Hinduism both spring from the Indian
civilization. According to you the arab wannabe, Indian civilization
had nothing whatsoever to do with "pakistani civilization" so are you
now going to give me a story about how buddhism came from saudi arabia?
> Mohammad bin quasim
"Mohammad bin quasim was a plunderer who was sent by Ummayad Caliph of
Damascus who **invaded** Sindh". What part of "invaded" do you not
understand? You have no self-pride in your ansestors and will take any
opportunity to glorify their ass raping at the hands of foreigners.
Night23
not propaganda.
Mohammed Ghazni destroyed university of Taxila Bhaktiar Khilji destroyed
university of Buddhist Nalanda
Islam wiped out buddhism from central asia and afganistan Muslims even
today kill of buddhists of Ladakh and in Chittagong. And you are trying
to convince me Hinduism destroyed Buddhism? Everyone knows how islam
treats other religions so there's no need for bullshit here.
HINDUISM'S INFLUENCE ON WORLD RELIGIONS
The Bhagavad Gita & Buddhism
"The Bhagavad Gita doctrine of lokasmgraha (good of humanity) and of
Divine Incarnation influenced the
Mahayana or the Northern school of Buddhism. The Buddhist scholar
Taranath who wrote the history of Buddhism
mentions that the teacher of Nagarjuna, who is regarded as the chief
originator of the Mahayana school of
Buddhism, was Rahulabhadra who "was much indebted to sage Krishna and
still more to Ganesha...This quasi-historical notice, reduced to its
less allegorical expression means that Mahayanism is much indebted to
the Bhagavadgita and more even to Shaivism." - Dr. Kern
Who wiped out Buddhists
"This autonomy of intermediate levels of society is the antithesis of
the totalitarian society in which the individual stands helpless before
the all-powerful state. This decentralized structure of civil society
and of the Hindu religious commonwealth has been crucial to the survival
of Hinduism under Muslim invasions. Buddhism was swept away and wiped
out as soon as its monasteries were destroyed while Hinduism survived" -
Prof K.Elst
Comparison of how Muslim treated infidel Buddhism vs Hindus treat
buddhism.
"This is not true with Christianity, it is not true with Islam - it is
not even true with Buddhism, as
Buddhists had missionaries who went all over Asia and converted people.
This historical tolerance of Hinduism
is never taken into account by foreign correspondents covering India and
even by Indian journalists. If it was, Indians might at least take some
pride in their country's boundless generosity towards others... Indians
have a very short memory of themselves, maybe because they never cared
to write down their own history. Thus, this beautiful tolerance was
taken advantage off by numerous (read muslim) invaders."
Tenents of Buddhism
"The tenets of Buddhism and Hinduism are not contradictory. Both are
bound by the belief in karm, rebirth, and the need to strive for peace,
tolerance and brotherhood. The Buddh had urged respect for the seen and
unseen, both born and not born leaving no room for conflict". -
Moonesinghe
chacha_...@my-deja.com
> Night23 <nig...@nightynight.com> wrote:
> > 75% of Indians are "Indo-Aryan" which means they have some part
> > non-native blood in them.
>
> This just confirms your ignorance! 75% of Indians are indeed "Indo-
> Aryan," but this is only a linguistic term (not racial or
> genetic/physical).
How stupid do you wanna look ?
Do you even understand what you are type ?
If Indians are qualified as Indo-Aryans...it does not mean anything.
This term has been used by Historians all over the globe...How can it
not mean anything ?
A technical "Term" which does not mean anything ????
And BTW what makes you think India and Indians are only restricted to
the so-called Dravidian race ??
And then why do Pakis stake claim on the Dravidian Harappa and
Mohenjadaro civilization ?
I think me knows the answer, because they have not heard of anything
which relates Harappa to Hinduism...The day any element of Hinduism is
seen in the Harappan civilization..Porkis will drop their claim on
Harappa like their ancestors dropped their Hindu/Buddhist identity for
the red hot rod of Arabic Islam up their arses...
Overwhelming majority of the "Indo-Aryan" -speaking
> peoples of India are Sudroid/Dravidoid/Australoid by race!
Are you goin to provide any evidence (educated) to back your claim...or
are will you be regurgitating what your Mullahs shove down your throats
>
> Indians however always maintain they are
> > Indians regardless of what blood they have in them. Pakistanis
> however
> > wish they were the arabs or turks, not pakistanis. This is a fact
> > everyone knows.
>
> Obviously your ignorance is pure Indian propaganda! I dont know what
> planet you live in, but living in Pakistan and being a Pakistani
> myself, I know it for a fact that Pakistanis are proud of their
> Pakistani identity, and do not consider themselves as Arab or Turk.
> Some may partially have their ancestory derived from them, but they
> certainly identify themselves as Pakistanis. It is no different from
> proud Americans with different backgrounds (German, Irish, Italian,
> etc) which they are proud of their roots, but identify themselves as
> Americans. On the other hand, you "Indians" should thank the British
> colonial rulers for giving you your identity (for creating such an
> entity--India).
Again to re-emphasize India and Indians have been around for years. The
ancient name for India is Bharat...The fact that Japan has been known
as Japan by the westerners and Nippon by natives does not make Japan a
European identity or a filthy Arabic/Islamic identity...
Not to mention, the European word "India" is derived
> from Sindh, which you guys have nothing to do with, and it's not even
> part of India!
Read my comments regarding Japan and Nippon above !
Moreover Sindh has been misisng for only for the last 50 years....Wait
a few more yearss... What's 50 years in History
Also, many of you Hindus praise and worship the Vedic
> Aryans, but the fact is that they invaded and perpetrated a brutal
> genocide on your Sudroid-Dravidoid ancestors!
Any proof ? Any evidence ?
And even if they did, it is not going to be pardoned by us. Unlike the
Pakistanis who refuse to apologize to their Islamic-Bong brothers
for the 3 million fellow Islamic-Banglas brutally murdered by Islamic
Punjabi/Pathan Machos..
Har Har little did these perpetrators know that they would be getting a
new arse-hole from Indian army when the MACHO-MUSSALMAN-PUNJABI_PATHAN
army lay down their arms en-masse . If you want I can send you pictures
from the war from my relatives who were trained to dress like Mukti-
Bahinis ....What a pathetic performance for a Self-Proclaimed-Islamic
army...
My dear Islamic mutant !
Alexander knew of Hindus...and the fact is that the Hindu identity and
philosophy was well developed before the hoards of Islamic warriors
decended from their desert lands to rape the present day population of
Pakistana nd Afghanistan....
Now get off the prop-a-ganda machine and stop being a pony to your
Mullah masters......Read my dear son, educate yourself and read books
in a language which left to right and not backwards....
Not a single Brahmanical or any
> other Indian source from the pre-Muslim era mentions the word
> of "Hindu"! Religions were either referred to the caste-belonging or
> the variance of religion and region!
Baloney...any proofs again or is it the desert winds in your stomach..
It was only in 1830 AD that the
> British colonial rulers finding it difficult to name the different
> religions of India, followed the Muslim solution, by labelling them
> as "Hinduism".
> And if initially the Mauryas were so called "Hindu",
> then explain why holy Brahmanic (Hindu) scriptures mentions them as
> impure, foreigners, sudras, etc.?
WHere are they mentioned as Sudras....And BTW Sudras were Hindus and
are Hindus...
Expect in Pakistan where they converted to Islam to save their skin
...but the Islamic Biradari still refers to them as Chooras...
SO much so for Islam and its message of Universal brotherhood....
>
> >Buddhism philosophy
> > is derived from Hinduism.
>
> Not true! Buddhism stood against the very essentials of Hinduism (aka
> Brahmanism), such as the caste system, sacrifices, polytheism, and
many
> other burdensome rituals.
Show me proof where sacrifices,caste system are mentioned as essentials
of Hinduism
BTW the Islamic republic of Pakistan slaughters innumerable number of
animals in the name of Almighty...
The Islamic republic of Jihadistan also practices caste system in the
name of Biradari....
Now if these are essentials of Hindusim ...my dear converted Mutant who
art thou then ???
>
> > "Pakistani history" begins with the ass raping by ex-pirate mohammad
> bin
> > quasim.
>
> Again, your ignorance is a product of false Indian propaganda!
> Pakistani textbooks also do have a great deal of pre-Muslim history.
> Even the Pakistani govt website features a large section on pre-Muslim
> era of the region of Pakistan.
Hmmm working on percentages....2500+ years of Indian history..compared
to 50 years of Paki History..now what % of Paki website is dedictaed
to non-Islamic history
Any way, you are now showing your true
> low level of mentality by ignorantly using "ass raping", perhaps you
> still have flashbacks of it because your Sudroid-Dravidoid ancestors
> were victimized through such means by the invading barbaric Vedic
> Aryans. Also, it is funny that you call Qasim a "pirate" when in fact,
> historians (and the only historical record on it--Chachnama) mentions
> him of invading Sindh because of the piracy problem in the Arabian
sea,
> looting and prisoning the Arab ships, who dominated in world trade.
Sure sure then why the need to Killing people unless they converted
unless it is an age old Arab-skill .... practiced and condoned by the
earliest practice=ners
Again..My dear Cyper-Jihadi
It is good that you have heard of Maurya and the Sakas (after whom the
Hindu calender of Sake Samhiti) is based...
Yet you remain blissfully ignorant of several facts ...
Take time to read and read read and read..
alizad...@my-deja.com
They do not claim to be Arabs or Persians. Those who claim to be
actually are, like it or not, and have ancient established families in
the middle east who accept them even today.
Punjabis are proud of their ethnicity, Sindhis of theirs. One of my
Punjabi friends, who's father was an ex MNA in Benazir's government,
proudly claims that he is the direct descendent of Guru Nanak and that
Sikhs come to his house to pay respects even today.
But Pukhtoons and Baluchis do not have anything in common with the
Indian ethnicities, and they account for 2 of 4 provinces of Pakistan.
The fact is that not every Pakistani goes around saying he is Arab or
Persian, don't stereotype.
But the minority still remains. Take my example. Every Persian who I
meet at first takes me to be Persian. This is on record, never has a
Persian thought me to be a non-Persian.
On the other hand, no Arab I have met has considered to be Arab.
The way you speak, you have never been to Pakistan.
You speak of Yusuf Khan aka "Dilip Kumar". Don't you know he is a
Pukhtoon Afghan? His family is still in Peshawar.
Pukhtoon identity is distinctly Pakistani, though shared by Afghanistan
too.
Baluch is distinctly Pakistan, though shared by Iran as well. (Though
my grandma is not Baluch, she is central Persian from Esfahan province).
In article <3A592571...@nightynight.com>,
alizad...@my-deja.com
They even speak a greek dialect.
In article <3A577F62...@nightynight.com>,
Night23 <nig...@nightynight.com> wrote:
alizad...@my-deja.com
Pakistani with red hair or green eyes.
Two of my cousins are green eyed, one of my good friends who is a
Pukhtoon is red haired, total rust red.
If you go north of Peshawar, into Chitral or Dir districts, you will
find people who look not Iranian, but European. Blue eyes, red/blond
hair are common there.
You have never been to Pakistan.
In article <3A58DE04...@nightynight.com>,
Night23 <nig...@nightynight.com> wrote:
> cyberpa...@aol.com wrote:
> > This just confirms your ignorance! 75% of Indians are indeed "Indo-
> > Aryan," but this is only a linguistic term
>
> CIA factbook will give you the ETHNIC divisions of India quite nicely.
> Ethnic divisions: Indo-Aryan 72%, Dravidian 25%, Mongoloid and other
3%
> Are you out to prove that pakistanis (some of whom are ex-sudra
converts
> to islam like the mohajirs), are blond haired blue eyed men distinctly
> different racial makeup from the average North Indian? As I said
> before, Pakistanis wish they were born arabs and hate being
pakistanis.
> Nevermind the fact that most of them have been, shall we say, well
> fertilized by Sikhs genes. Basically the average pakistani punjabi
is a
> sikh minus a turban.
>
> > Obviously your ignorance is pure Indian propaganda! I dont know what
> > planet you live in, but living in Pakistan and being a Pakistani
> > myself,
>
> Why do you deny pakistanis find every occassion to lick the butts of
> arabs and put down India and even its own ansestral heritage? It is
>
nusrat rizvi
>Agreed, that 90% are Pakistanis are of Indian stock.
It is lot closer to 99% but who is counting.
>They do not claim to be Arabs or Persians. Those who claim to be
>actually are, like it or not, and have ancient established families in
>the middle east who accept them even today
Established families in the ME?
What on earth is established families of the ME?
>Punjabis are proud of their ethnicity, Sindhis of theirs. One of my
>Punjabi friends, who's father was an ex MNA in Benazir's government,
>proudly claims that he is the direct descendent of Guru Nanak and that
>Sikhs come to his house to pay respects even today.
Is this what they call it now?
>But Pukhtoons and Baluchis do not have anything in common with the
>Indian ethnicities, and they account for 2 of 4 provinces of Pakistan.
How about ethnicity, history culture etc?
>The fact is that not every Pakistani goes around saying he is Arab or
>Persian, don't stereotype.
Most Punjabis do, obviously far too ashamed of Sikh heritage which
they always hide by becoming Khans, Siddiquis, Faroquis in short
everything except Singhs.
>But the minority still remains. Take my example. Every Persian who I
>meet at first takes me to be Persian. This is on record, never has a
>Persian thought me to be a non-Persian.
Gawd, here we go again, give it a rest will you.
>On the other hand, no Arab I have met has considered to be Arab.
>
>The way you speak, you have never been to Pakistan.
>
>You speak of Yusuf Khan aka "Dilip Kumar". Don't you know he is a
>Pukhtoon Afghan? His family is still in Peshawar.
Despite his name and origin his features are all 100%. This should
put an end to your argument of racial superiority, but will it?
>Pukhtoon identity is distinctly Pakistani, though shared by Afghanistan
>too.
>
>Baluch is distinctly Pakistan, though shared by Iran as well. (Though
>my grandma is not Baluch, she is central Persian from Esfahan province).
Whatever happen to Ms.Mariam Ispahani an old timer on scp, of course
she did not talk as stupidly as you do being smart and better
educated.
nusrat rizvi
>It is very interesting that you say that you have never seen a
>Pakistani with red hair or green eyes.
>
>Two of my cousins are green eyed, one of my good friends who is a
>Pukhtoon is red haired, total rust red.
>
>If you go north of Peshawar, into Chitral or Dir districts, you will
>find people who look not Iranian, but European. Blue eyes, red/blond
>hair are common there.
I don't know about Blond but the red hair are curtesy Henna.
>You have never been to Pakistan.
Plesae spare the poor man.
nusrat rizvi
>Pure Greeks live in the Kalash valley of Kafiristan near Chitral.
>They even speak a greek dialect.
You have made a comparison of what is spoken in Kafiristan with modern
Greek?
care to publish your findings?
wasimu...@my-deja.com
keep it up.
Thanks
Wasim
In article <930k7c$6qu$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
cyberpa...@aol.com wrote:
> PAKISTAN--History through the Centuries
> By Hasan Dani
>
> Pakistan, the Indus land, is the child of the Indus in the same way as
> Egypt is the gift of Nile. The Indus has provided unity, fertility,
> Communication, direction and the entire landscape to the country. Its
> location marks it as a great divide as well as a link between central
> Asia and south Asia. But the historical movements of the people from
> Central Asia and South Asia have given to it a character of its own
and
> have established closer relation between the people of Pakistan and
> those of Central Asia in the field of Culture, Language, literature,
> food, dress, furniture and folklore. However, it is the Arabian Sea
> that has opened the doors for journey beyond to the Arabian world
> through the Gulf and Red Sea right into the ancient Civilization of
> Mesopotamia and Egypt. It is this Sea voyage that gave to the Indus
> Land its earliest name of Meluhha because the Indus people were
> characterized as Malahha (Sailor) in the Babylonian records. It is for
> this reason that the oldest Civilization of this land, called Indus
> Civilization, had unbreakable bonds of Cultural and trade link with
the
> Gulf States of Dubai, Abu Dabi, Sharja, Qatter, Bahrain and right from
> Oman to Kuwait. While a Meluhhan village sprang up in ancient
> Mesopotamia (Modern Iraq), the Indus Seals, painted Pottery,
> Lapislazuli and many other items were exchanged for Copper, tin and
> several other objects from Oman and Gulf States. It is to facilitate
> this trade that the Indus writing was evolved in the same Proto-
> symbolic style as the contemporary cuneiform writing of Mesopotamia.
> Much later in history it is the pursuit of this seaward trade that
> introduced Islam from Arabia in to Pakistan. The twin foundations of
> cultural link have helped build the stable edifice of Islamic
> Civilization in this Country. All these cultural developments are
write
> large in the personality of the people of Pakistan.
>
> As in many other Countries of the world, man in Pakistan began with
the
> technology of working on old stone by using quartzite and flint found
> in Rohri hills and stone pebbles found in the Soan Valley. The oldest
> stone tool in the world, going back to 2.2 million years old, has been
> found at Rabat, about fifteen miles away from Rawalpindi, thus
breaking
> the African record. The largest hand Axe has also been found in the
> Soan Valley. Although man is still hiding in some corner, the Soan
> pebble stone age Culture show a link with the Hissar Culture in
Central
> Asia. Later about fifty thousand B.C. at Sangho Cave in Mardan
District
> man improved his technology for working on Quartz in order to chase
the
> animal in closed Valleys. Still later he worked on micro quartz and
> chert or flint and produced arrows, knives, Scrapers and blades and
> hunted the feeling deer and ibexes with bow and arrow. Such an hunting
> scene is well illustrated on several rock carvings, particularly near
> Chilas in the Northern Areas of Pakistan along the Karakorum Highway -
> a style of rock art so well known in the trans- Pamir region of
> Tajikistan and Kirghizstan. However, the first settled life began in
> the eight millennium B.C. when the first village was found at
Mehergarh
> in the Sibi Districts of Baluchistan comparable with the earliest
> villages of Jericho in Palestine and Jarmo in Iraq. Here their mud
> houses have been excavated and agricultural land known for the
> Cultivation of Maize and wheat. Man began to live together in settled
> social life and used polished stone tools, made pots and pans, beads
> and other ornaments. His taste for decoration developed and he began
to
> paint his vessels, jars, bowls, drinking glasses, dishes and plates.
It
> was now that he discovered the advantage of using metals for his tools
> and other objects of daily use. For the first time in seventh
> millennium B.C. he learnt to use bronze. From the first revolution in
> his Social, Cultural and Economic life. He established trade relation
> with the people of Turkamenistan, Uzbekistan, Iran and other Arab
world.
>
> He not only specialized in painting different designs on pottery, made
> varieties of pots and used Cotton and Wool but also made terracotta
> figurines and imported precious stones from Afghanistan and Central
> Asia. This early bronze age Culture spread out in the country side of
> Sindh, Baluchistan, Punjab and North West Frontier Province.
>
> And this early begining led to the concentration of population into
> small towns. Such as Kot Digi in Sindh and Rehman Dheri in Dera Ismail
> Khan District. It is this social and Cultural change that led to the
> rise of the famous cities of Mohenjo Daro and Harappra, the largest
> concentration of population including artisans, craftsman, businessmen
> and rulers. This culminated in the peak of the Indus Civilization,
> which was primarily based on intensive irrigated land agriculture and
> overseas trade and contact with Iran, Gulf States, Mesopotamia and
> Egypt. Dams were built for storing river water, land was Cultivated by
> means of bullock- harnessed plough - a system that still prevails in
> Pakistan, granaries for food storage were built, furnace were used for
> controlling temperature for making red pottery and various kinds of
> ornaments, beads of carnelian, agate and terracotta were pierced
> through, and above all they traded their finished goods with Central
> Asia and Arab world. It is these trade divided that enriched the urban
> populace who developed a new sense of moral honesty, discipline and
> cleanliness, and above all a social stratification in which the
priests
> and the mercantile class dominated the society. The picture of high
> civilization can be gathered only by looking at the city of Mohenjo
> Daro, the first planned city in the world, in which streets are
aligned
> straight, parallels to each other, with a cross streets cutting at
> right angles. It is through these wide streets that wheeled carriages,
> drawn by bulls or asses, moved about, carrying well-adorned persons
> seated on them, appreciating the closely aligned houses, made of pucca
> bricks, all running straight along the streets. And then through the
> middle of the streets ran stone dressed drains covered with stone
> slabs - a practice of keeping the streets clean from polluted water,
> for the first time seen in the world.
>
> The Indus Civilization is the first literate Civilization of the
> subcontinent. The cities were centers of art and craft. Where the
> artisan produced several kinds of goods that were exported to other
> countries. Sailing boats sailed out from Mohenjo Daro and anchored in
> the port of the Gulf, which region was perhaps known as Dilmin.
> However, it was the city administration that managed the urban life in
> strict discipline and controlled the trade in their hands. The
> discipline is derived from the strict practice of meditation (yoga)
> that was practiced by the elite of the city, who appear to have
trimmed
> their beard and hair combed and tied with golden fillets. The body was
> covered with a shawl bearing trefoil designs on them. Such a noble man
> with a sharp nose and long wish eyes shows a contrast with a bronze
> figurine of a dancing and singing girl, plying music with her fully
> bang led hand, as we find today with the Cholistan ladies having
> bangled hands. Obviously there were distinctive ethnic groups of
people
> in Mohenjo Daro but the dominant class of rulers and merchants appear
> to be distinctive from the rest of the population. It is these
literate
> people who inter- acted with the Arabian people and continued to
> maintain strict discipline in the society. It is they who developed
> astronomy, mathematics, and science in the country along with
numerical
> symbols, weights and measures but they thoroughly intermixed in the
> society and also believed in the local cult of tree and tree deities
> and animal totems. The most prominent animals as attested in the seals
> are bull, buffalow, elephant, tiger, rhinoceros, aligator and deer and
> ibexs. However, Mesopotamian influences are seen in the figures of
> Gilgamash, Enkidu, joint statue of the bull and man and other animals
> with several heads and bodies. However, the unique local concept is
> that of highly meditative man, seated in his heels, with three or four
> heads, and combining in himself the power to control the animals
> probably with a crown of horns or some times a tree overhead. It is
> this supreme deity, depicted on Seals, that draws the serpent
> worshippers and overpowers the animals. A part from these there was no
> concept of nature worship as we find in the Vedas of the Aryans. The
> ritual consisted of offerings through the intermediary of mythological
> composite animals to the tree deity. These dose not appear to have
been
> any concept of animals sacrifice nor worship of any idol or idols. The
> Indus civilization lasted for nearly five hundred years and flourished
> up to 1750 B.C. when we notice the movements of nomadic tribes in
> Central Asia. As a result the Asian trade system was greatly
disturbed.
> Consequently the trade and industry of the Indus people greatly
> suffered with the result that led to the end of the Civilization. The
> cities vanished, the noble lost their position. The writing finished.
> The common people met with the influx of new horse-riding pastoralists
> who hardly understood the system of irrigated agriculture and hence
the
> value of dams. Such nomadic tribes are known from the large number of
> graves and their village settlements all over Swat, Dir and Bajaur
> right up to Taxila. In the Northern Areas of Pakistan different group
> of such tribes, known as Dardic people are known from their graves.
The
> tribes of the plains are recognized as different groups of the Aryans
> from the hilly tribes of the North- the ancestors of the Kalash people
> and those who now speak Shina, Burushaski and other Kohistani
> languages. They had nothing to do with the cities as we find them
> building small villages nor did they know irrigation. Infect they
> believed in nature gods, one of them Indra destroyed the dams and
> spelled disaster on the local Dasyus who differed from them in color,
> creed and language. These Aryans conquerors developed there own
> religion of the Vedas, practiced animal sacrifice and gradually built
> up tribal kingdoms all over the Indus Valley. The most prominent being
> that of Gandhara with capitals at Pushkalavati (modern Charsadda) and
> Taxila, the last having been the older capital of Takshaka, the king
of
> serpent worshippers. Taksha-sila (a sanskrit word, literally
translated
> in to Persian Mari-Qila) survive in modern Margala. It become the
> strong hold of the Aryans, whose great epic book Mahabarata was for
the
> first time recited here. Since that time Takshka-sila or Taxila lying
> on the western side of Margala remained the capital of the Indus land,
> which was called Sapta- Sindhu (the land of seven rivers) by the
> Aryans. It because of this central location, en routs from Central to
> South Asia that the new capital of Pakistan has been established at
> Islamabad on the eastern side of Margala hill , thus giving a
> historical link from the most ancient to modern time and new
> significance to Pakistan as a link between Central and South Asia.
>
> The city of Taxila began to grow from 6th century B.C. onward when
> Achaemenian kings by name Cyrus and Darius joind this city by road and
> postal services with their own capital at Persepolis in Iran. Here one
> can see the Aryan village at Hatial mound lying above the pre-Aryan
> bronze age capital of Takshakas (Serpent worshippers). One can also
> visit the Achaemenian city at Bhir mound, where old bazars and royal
> palace, with long covered drain, have been discovered. Land rout trade
> with Iran and the west once again started with the issue of coin
> currency for the first time in the Indus land. But the most important
> was the great use of iron technology, which produced several kind of
> iron tools, weapons and other objects of daily use as known as from
the
> excavations at Taxila. Above all a new writing known as Kharoshti was
> developed here. At the same time the oldest University of the world
was
> founded at Taxila, where taught the great grammarian Panini, born at
> the modern village of Lahur in Sawabi district of the Frontier
> Province. It is the basis of this grammar that modern linguistics has
> been developed. It is in this University that Chandragupta Maurya got
> his education, who later founded the first subcontinental empire in
> South Asia. He developed the Mauryan city at Bhir mound in Taxila,
> where ruled his grandson, Ashoka, twice as governor. He introduced
> Buddhism in Gandhara and built the first Buddhist monastery, called
> Dharmajika Vihara, at Taxila. Ashoka has left behind his Rock Edicts
at
> two palaces, one at Mansehra and another at Shahbazgari, written in
> Kharoshti.
>
> Long before the rise of Chandragupta Maurya the Achaemenian empire,
> that had extended from Pakistan to Greece and Egypt, had collapsed
> under the onslaught of Alexander of Macedonia. He first finished with
> the Greek city states, united the Greeks, and dashed forward to annex
> the Achaemenian empire and hence proceeded to all those places where
> the Achaemenian had ruled. In this march they come to Taxila in 326
> B.C. where he was welcomed by the local king Ambhi in his palace at
> Bhir mound. It is here as well as at Bhira in Jhelam district that
> Alexander's remains can be seen. However, he fought the greatest
> battale on the bank of the Jhelam river opposite the present village
of
> Jalalpur Sharif against Porus, the head of the heroic Puru tribe,
whose
> descendents still supply military personal to the Pakistan army.
> Alexander's battle place was at Mong, where he founded a new city,
> called Nikea, the city of victory. The other city which he founded was
> called Bucaphela after the name of his horse that died here. However,
> the most captivating site is at Jalalpur Shaif, laying on the bank of
> river let Gandaria, perhaps Sikanaria, where Alexander's monument has
> now been built on the spot where he stopped for about two months
before
> launching his attack on Porus.
>
> The Achaemenian and Alexander's contacts with Pakistan are very
> important from the point of view of educational and Cultural history.
> The Achaemenian brought the learning and science of Mesopotamia
> Civilization that enriched the University of Taxila. They also
> introduced their administrative system here, on the basis of which the
> famous book on political science, called Arthasastra was written in
> Sanskrit language in Taxila by Kautilya, known as Chanakya, the
teacher
> of Chandragupta Maurya. It is this book that was adapted for the
> administrative of the Mauryan empire. On the basis of Achaemenian
> currency the Mauryan punch marked coins. So well known in Taxila, were
> produced. It is their Aramic writing, used by Achaemenian clerks, that
> led to the development of Kharoshti in Pakistan and trade with the
> semetic world that created the Brahmi writing in India. On the other
> hand Alexander brought Greek knowledge and science to Taxila and
> introduced Greek type of coin currency. It is Taxila that philosophers
> and men of learning of the two countries met and developed science,
> mathematics and astronomy. Above all Alexander left behind large
number
> of Greeks in Central Asia, who founded the Bactrian Greek kingdom in
> mid-third century B.C. it is the descendants of these Bactrian Greeks
> who later advanced in to Pakistan and built up the Greek kingdom here
> and built up their own city at Sirkap in Taxila. This is the second
> well planned city in Pakistan. The Greeks introduced their language,
> art and religion in the country of Gandhara, where ruled thirteen
Greek
> kings and queens. Their language lasted more than five hundred years
> and their art and religion and considerable influence on the flourish
> of Gandhara Civilization.
>
> This civilization was the result of interaction of several peoples who
> followed the Greeks, the Scythians, the Parthians and Kushans who came
> one the other from Central Asia along the Silk Road and integrated
them
> selves into the local society. It is under their patronage that
> Buddhism evolved here into its new Mahayana form and this become the
> religion of the contemporary people in Pakistan. Under their
> encouragement the Buddhist monks moved along the Silk Road freely and
> carried this religion to central Asia, China, Korea and Japan. It is
> again the trade along the silk road that was particularly controlled
by
> the Kushana emperors, who built a mighty empire with Peshawar as their
> Capital, the boundaries of which extended from the Aral Sea to the
> Arabian Sea and from Afghanistan to the Bay of Bengal. It is the
> dividends of trade that enriched Pakistan and led to the development
of
> Gandhara Art, which mirrors the social, religious and common man's
life
> of the time. It is an art that was blend of the Greek classical and
> local arts, which created the finest statues of Buddha and
> Buddhisatttvas that today decorate the museums all over the world. At
> the same time the sculpture depict the whole life of the Buddha in a
> manner that is unsurpassed. Many Greek themes, their gods, typical
> toilet trays, Greek life scenes showing musicians, drinking bouts and
> love making are presented in there natural fashion. The Kushanas
period
> was the golden age of Pakistan as the Silk Road trade brought
> unparalleled prosperity to the people of the country.
>
> The luxury items produced in the country enrich the museum at Taxila
at
> that show the Cultural and trends of life of the time. Gandhara art is
> the high water achievement of the people of Pakistan. Mahayana
Buddhism
> was the inspiring ideal of the time and the Buddhist Stupas and
> monastries survive in every nook and corner of the hills. It was this
> time that the country was known as Kushana-shahar, the land of the
> Kushanas, to which came the Romanships to carry the luxury goods in
> exchange for Roman Siler and Gold, that were used by the Kushana
> emperors and as a result their gold currency flooded the country and
> all along the Silk road. It is these Kushana kings who have gifted the
> national dress of shalwar and kamiz and sherwani to Pakistan. Their
> dress and decorations are deeply imprinted on the Indus land, that is
> now Pakistan.
>
> Then came from Central Asia the Huns and the Turks who gave to
Pakistan
> the present ethnic, their Culture, Food and Adab. The Jats, Gakkhars,
> Janjuas (Jouanjouan of the Chinese) and Gujars all trekked into
> Pakistan and made their home here. The Rajput rose and founded the
> feudal system in Punjab and Sindh in the same way the Pashtuns, who
> borrowed the surname of Gul and later the title of Khan from the
> Mongols, their Sardari system in Baluchistan, and slowly developed the
> wadera practice in the Indus delta region of Sindh. This feudal
> arrangements, which was the result of confederated tribes of the Huns,
> led to new administrative system in the country and created a new form
> of land management that has lasted until today. The tribes have fused
> into the agricultural society but their brotherhoods have survived and
> they have given a permanent character to Pakistan.
>
> In the early eight Century A.D. the Arabs brought Islam in Sindh and
> Multan built up the kingdom of Al-Mansura in Sindh. At the same time
> their east ward Sea trade introduced porcelain and called on were from
> China and popularized glass were from Iran Syria- new materials that
> can be seen in the excavations at Bambhor in Sindh. With the Muslims
> Turks came the Sufis and Darveshas from Central Asia. Iran and
> Afghanistan and they spread Islam all over the country. It is Sultan
> Muhamud of Ghazni who made Lahore- the city of Data Saheb as his
second
> capital. However, the city of Multan become famous as the city of
> Saints although it lay en route the camel caravan that carried on
trade
> between Pakistan and Central Asia right up to Baku in Azerbaijan. It
is
> these cities that the famous Muslims monuments of old are to be seen.
> As a result of the Saintly activity Pakistan become a land of Islamic
> Civilization. In several villages and cities we now find the Dargah of
> these Muslims Saints. While Shaahbaz Kalandar is a well known in
Sindh,
> Baba Farid Shakarganj presides over Pak Pattan in Punjab, Buner
> Babarules over the Frontier region, and Syed Ali Hamdani is the real
> Sufi Saint in Kashmir. The capital city of Islamabad enshrines the
well
> known Golra Sharif and Barri Imam. It is in these Saints who
influenced
> the development of Sufi literature in all the languages of Pakistan
and
> their monumental tombs that attract the people from all the country.
In
> the old city of Thatta at Makli hill several tombs and Mausolea are
> spread over the place that surpass in the beauty of stone carving but
> much more than this they evidence the historical evolution of
> architecture from 12th century A.D. to the Mughal time.
>
> This was a period of great change in the historical integration of the
> people in Pakistan when the country was brought closer to Central Asia
> and the Arab world. The mixing of several tribes from both these
> regions transformed the ethnic complex of the country. Just as in the
> period of Kushanas of Mahayana type rose here and the Buddhist monks
> out from this land along the Silk road to carry the massage of the
> Buddha, now it was the Arabs and the Muslims Saints from Central Asia
> who came in the reverse direction and flocked in the prosperous land
of
> Pakistan. New trade route were opened in the reverse direction from
> those countries into the Indus land. From the Huns to the Turks the
age
> of cavalry dominated the life scene. Many Rock carvings in Central
> Punjab show men riding, even standing on horse back and brandishing
> their swords and shooting arrows. Hence forward Polo game become
common
> and sword dance was common, as seen in the Rock carving near Chilas.
> The foundation of Muslims state was firmly laid, in which the dominate
> position first occupied by the Arabs in Sindh and Multan and later by
> the Gaznavid and Ghorid Sultans who made the Indus country as their
> spring board from the onward conquest of India. A beautiful monument
in
> memory of sultan Ghori can be seen at Suhawa on the National Highway.
> It was therefore in the fitness of things that the first missile made
> in Pakistan was named after Ghori. Several Muslims kingdoms grew up in
> this country. Beginning from north we find the Trakhan ruling dynasty,
> who came from trans-pamir region here and become supreme in the Gilgit
> area. The descendent of Shah Mir founded the Muslims Sultanate in
> Kashmir maintained its independents until the time of the Mughal
> emperor Akbar. The Pushtun tribes made their movements and asserted
> their independence in the land watered by the western branch of the
> Indus River. The Langhas and later the Arghuns become the Master of
> Multan. The Sama ruling dynasty started a new era of Cultural
> development and prosperity in Sindh. The Baluchis in concert with
> Brahuis leapt forward not only to build their kingdom in Baluchistan
> but also migrated eastward and northward. Apart from these political
> shape of the country, there was an unparalleled development in art and
> architecture, literature and music, and particularly new social
> integration took place on the basis of the patronage of local
> languages, such as Baluchi, Sindhi, Panjabi, Pashto, Kashmiri, Shina
> and Burushaski. All these languages received literary form with the
> support of the Muslims rulers and the first time their literatures
> began to take shape. They received influence from Arabic and Persian
> and added many themes from the Folk-loresas wellas from those of
> Central Asia. Such an unusual developments transformed the society
with
> the stories from Shahnama and Hazar Dastan and with the Folk-tales
from
> Lila-Majnun, Sasi-Punnu and Hir-Ranjha. The stringed instruments, the
> dholak and the dhap and aslo flute and trinklets gave a new tone to
the
> life of the people of Multan, Thatta, Maarha Shrif in D.I. Khan, Swat
> and Kashmir, and finally Gilgit, Hunza and Balistan created the finest
> architecture of the time. That was the period of new religious
activity
> in the country side when Islam become the dominant religion of the
> people who were directly linked in religious ties with the people of
> Central Asia, Iran, Afghanistan, Turkey and Arab world.
>
> The migrant people had brought the new technology of straining the
> horse from Central Asia and Iran. Were ever the horse galloped right
up
> the corner of Bengal and Orissa, the Turks and Afghans advanced from
> Pakistan and established new empires. Here the artisans and craftsman
> gathered in new center, cities began to grow with new craft mohallas,
> and they began to specialise in the products of Shawl and carpets in
> Kashmir, chapkan, chadar and dopatta in Panjab and Chitral and
Northern
> Areas, tile work in Multan, Hala and Hyderabad, block printing in
Sindh
> and fine carpentry in Chiniot, Bhira and Dera Ismail Khan. As a result
> several families occupied themselves in traditional crafts and passed
> them on to their own children.
>
> Then came the Mughal emperors, descendent of Amir Timur, who,
following
> the Mongol ruler Changiz Khan, had embarked on building a new world
> empireon the basis of organizing a new type of cavalry and making a
new
> disciplined army in the unites of hundred and thousand. The later
still
> survive in the name of Hazara both in Pakistan and Afghanistan. The
> first Mughal emperor, Zahiruddin Muhammad Babar, who had to come out
> from Farghan, brought a new taste of poetry, baghicha and
architectural
> forms from the natural environment and landscape from Farghana and
> Samarkand, latter city reflecting the delicious water of Zarafshana
> (golden) river. Baber built his first terraced garden in Kabul and
then
> choose the beautiful spot at Kalda or Kakkar Kahar in Chakwal district
> and built here Bagh-i-Safa on the very spot marked by this throne
seat.
> It was again terraced garden watered by a near by spring. At the old
> Bhira on the bank of Jehlum he built a fort and then proceeded to Shah
> Dara (the Royal pass Gate) that opened his route the city of Lahore.
At
> Shah Dara several garden were laid by by the Mughal noblemen but only
> one is preserved inside Jahangir tomb that was built by his queen Nur
> Jehan who lies buried in another mausoleums. The tomb along with the
> garden is now desolate. There is also Kamran's baradari, without the
> garden, that still defies the flood of the Ravi river. When the Mughal
> emperors followed Babar one after the other, they choose the old
Lahore
> on the bank of Ravi to their main Urban centers in Punjab. It was
> developed as a city of gardens with numerous gardens around but the
> main Mughal fortress was built in an Island, surrounded by the Ravi on
> the three sides and only on the east it was joined to the city proper.
> Here third Mughal emperor Akbar transferred his capital from Agra to
> meet the challenge of cousin Mirza Hakim. Here he laid the foundation
> of a typical Mughal citadel with royal residences, called Akbari Mahal
> and Jahangiri Mahal, with a prominent Diwan-i-Am built in the
> traditional Iranian style, all constructed in red sand stone imported
> from Rajistan. Later Akbar's grandson Shah Jehan, the King of
> architecture, transformed many buildings and renewed to his taste with
> white marble. He added Diwan-i-Khas that overlooked Ravi, his palace
> and Turkish Bath and still more important the Moti Masjid, the gem of
> monuments, with beautiful decorative designs in precious stones set in
> marble.
>
> However, his choicest building is the Shish Mahal, the Mirror Palace
> that was the constructed by the side of a Charbagh style garden with
> running water channel and fountains, but later destroyed by the Sikhs,
> and quadrangles remodeled. Such garden, called Mehtab, can be seen in
> other quadrangles in the Fort. The Shish Mahal is the luxurious place
> of resort particularly during summer months with rest rooms of a long
> hall at its either end, opening on to the brilliantly dazzling Veranda
> that looks at the marble paved quadrangle with a fountain in the
middle
> side. The mirror reflects the stars and the bedrooms presents, in its
> ceiling, the panorama of a star lit Sky. On the western side there is
a
> unique building of Bengali style, called Naulakha, whose brilliance of
> precious stone outshone the natural setting of flowers and tree leaves
> that decorate the walls. Alas ' the Sikh and British soldiers have
> robbed many of the precious stones. Even then the Shish Mahal, even in
> its changed character by the Sikhs, presents a dazzling brilliance in
> its perfect creation by the Mughal emperor Shah Jehan. It is the
climax
> of Mughal luxury surpassed nowhere in the world.
>
> The exterior wall of the Shish Mahal one can see the beautiful mosaic
> paintings that depict everyday sport of the Mughal princes for the
> enjoyment of the people who used to gather below the fort not only to
> have a view of the emperor sitting in the Jharokha but als to admire
> the brilliance of color on the wall. Here one can observe galloping
> horses, humped camels, elephant ride, hunting scene, animal fights,
> horse man plying polo or chaughan, camel fights, figures of angels,
> demon head sand moving clouds, horse and elephant riders crossing
> Swords and verities of floral and geometrical designs. There are three
> gates to enter the fort, all three of them showing different tastes.
> The Masti (or correctly Masjid) Gate on the east shows Akbar's taste
of
> red sand stone. The Shahburj gate on the west presents the fine mosaic
> decorations of the time of Janhangir. The last is the Alamgiri gate
> built by Emperor Aurangzeb, showing tasteful simple entrance with
> multiple facetted Tower at either end, crowned by Kiosks.
>
> From Shish Mahal one can have a magnificent view of the Badashahi
> Masjid built by Aurangzeb on a spot regained after the river Ravi
> shifted further away. Its magnificent Stair way leading to the elegant
> red sand stone gate way on the east is highly impressive. It is on the
> left side that later the tomb of Allama Iqbal was built. The gate way,
> which is preserved the relic of the Prophet and also in one of the
copy
> of the Holy Qur'an with brilliant calligraphy, leads into a wide open
> courtyard, having a washing pond in its middle, and rows of cells on
> its sides. On its west is the main prayer chamber of oblong shape
> marked by four tall corner towers. On its roof are three marble dooms
> of bulbous shape that attract the eye from a long distance. The
> interior of the mosque has chaste decoration in the mehrab chamber
that
> opened in to equally well decorated side aisles. It has a Verandah on
> the front that is again tastefully decorated. But the most elegant are
> the tall towers at four corners of the quadrangle, from the top of
> which one can have an unforgettable view of the city of Lahore.
>
> There are two other beauties in the city of which the greatest
> monumental gems of Lahore. The first is the most chaste fully painted
> mosque of Wazir Khan, which was once the center of religious and
> educational activities during the Mughals period. In its original
> design the mosque was fronted by an open maidan that presented from a
> distance a marvellous view of the mosque. It was built by Ilmuddin
> Ansari, hailling from the old trading city of Chiniot, but later he
> gave rise to the city of Wazirabad. He was raised to the high post of
> governor by Shah Jehan for his devoted service and great skill of
> Hikmat. But of greater importance in his taste of decorative
> architecture which he has translated into this mosque. The mosque
plan,
> which is typical Mughals style but for its squat domes has tall
> minarets crowned by tasteful Chhatris. The most attractive is the
> mosaic ornamentation of the facade, the minars, and particularly the
> mihrab, which remains unsurpassed in its setting and choice of
> decorations and calligraphic work. In its charging decoration the
> mosque symbolises high sense of taste and marks a magnificent
> attraction in Lahore, to which both Shah Jehan as well as his
officials
> gave a new face of color and charm.
>
> And yet the greatest jewel of the city of Lahore is the Shahlimar
Bagh,
> the unique pleasure resort that has been gifted to the world by the
> Mughal emperors. With paying a visit to this garden one can hardly
> understand the Mughal love for pleasances. In its creation what a real
> pleasure they have bestowed to the people of Lahore. The garden
> sumbolises the elixir of life that the Mughals alone could imagine.
> They had long left Farghana but the beauteous charm of its terraced
> fields lingered behind that has been recaptured in the Cahrbagh style
> of the garden in Shahlimar, as Taj Mahal in Agra is the symbol of
> unforgettable love of emperor Shah Jehan, in the form of unique
> architectural creation, for the beloved queen Mumtaz Mahal, so is the
> Shahlimar, the epitome, of Shala (fire of love), the embodiment of the
> highest playful joy in life that the emperor and empress could have in
> this world. The garden is a combination of Charbaghs, water channels,
> fountains, Cascades, water falls and bathing hall in three different
> terraces, each terrace headed by beautiful pavilions for a pause of
> pleasurable enjoyment and then to pass on the other ponds of joy,
inset
> with showering fountains, each terrace presenting varieties in scenic
> complex. Starting from a elaborate gate way in the south , with a
water
> fountain in its middle chamber, we enter the open space, surrounded on
> right and left, by residential quarters, having long walkways, in the
> middle of either side of a channel marked by fountain, that join
> together on the four sides on a watery platform. And then we pass to
> the first pavilion that looks at a square pond remarkable sitting a
> cascade of a water falling down below the pavilion, series of
fountains
> around a central seat for musicians and dancers and smaller pavilions
> at the four corners. From the top pavilion the elite royalties draw
> their pleasure from the scenic panorama in front and from the corner
> pavilions guests could roll in pleasance and enjoy the music of the
> running fountains coupled with the music of the singers and dancers.
> The next lower terrace begin with a rare bathing hall in the middle
> with water fountains lower down and lighted lamps in the arched niches
> of the walls. Here one could cool the legs during summer months- a
> novel way of cooling the atmosphere in the days when there were no
> electricity and air conditioners. And thus we find here a thrilling
> atmosphere where natural art has been channelised in the service of
> man. What a creation of charming loveliness that is combined with
> cooling water in various forms to soothe the evening of warm Lahore.
>
> That is not all of Mughal architecture. If one likes to see the Mughal
> fondness for hunting, one can go to Sheikhopura, not from Lahore , and
> admire the construction of Hiran Minar by emperor Jahangir on the spot
> his dearly loved deer died. That Minar stand by the side of a tank
> which has in its middle a three storied pavilion for a general view
> around. If one can interested to see the defence arrangements of the
> Mughals, one can go to Attock on the bank of the Indus river, where
> Akbar's built a magnificent fort, made arrangements for crossing the
> river by boat-bridge and laid a new road south of the Kabul river
> leading to Peshawar through the Khyber pass to Kabul. And then come to
> Attock the empress Nur Jahan, who constructed here a caravan Serai,
> known as Begum Ki Serai, with a platform at the four corners and
living
> rooms cooled by the Indus breeze. It is from one of the top platform
> that one could look at the magnificent expanse of the Indus river,
full
> of flowing life and natural beauty, that perhaps will remain as the
> lasting memory of the Indus land, that is Pakistan.
Momin
alizad...@my-deja.com wrote:
> It is very interesting that you say that you have never seen a
> Pakistani with red hair or green eyes.
>
> Two of my cousins are green eyed, one of my good friends who is a
> Pukhtoon is red haired, total rust red.
>
> If you go north of Peshawar, into Chitral or Dir districts, you will
> find people who look not Iranian, but European. Blue eyes, red/blond
> hair are common there.
It just means that some desi lady was working overtime horizontllyin the
British Raj....
alizad...@my-deja.com
official title for your "nation". Just serves to show the slaves that
you still are. Why don't I see "bharat" in the world map?
The word Hindu was a Persian invention, given to you by your Persian
masters. To this day you have kept this word sacred and official as
your identity.
Never has a nation been so pitifully lowly. I pity you losers.
In article <93bkr7$s10$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
nusrat rizvi
>The very word India is a European invention, and today this is your
>official title for your "nation". Just serves to show the slaves that
>you still are. Why don't I see "bharat" in the world map?
>
>The word Hindu was a Persian invention, given to you by your Persian
>masters. To this day you have kept this word sacred and official as
>your identity.
>
>Never has a nation been so pitifully lowly. I pity you losers.
>
Shall we now talk of what your Sikh masters gave you other than the
gift of life that is?
cyberpa...@aol.com
Night23 <nig...@nightynight.com> wrote:
> I asked for scholars work on refuting Buddhism & Hinduism connection,
> not propaganda.
>
Funny how you deny accepted historical and religious facts by reputed
non-Pakistani historians and anthropologists, and then you post cheap
Brahmanist propaganda.
The Buddha said:
Bibliography.
cyberpa...@aol.com
> linguistic and cultural heritage.
Sure the Indo-Aryan speaking peoples have a distinctive racial
heritage, i.e. genetically about 80% Dravidoid-Australoid and 18% Aryan-
Caucasoid....a racial synthesis between the two. However, the
term "Indo-Aryan" is associated with linguistics/language. According to
Encylopaedia Britannica:
Indo-Iranian languages: group of languages constituting the easternmost
major branch of the Indo-European family of languages. The two main
branches are Indo-Aryan and Iranian. Indo-Aryan languages are spoken by
some 800 million persons in India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nepal,
Bangladesh, and other areas of the Himalayan region. In addition,
languages of the Indo-Aryan group are spoken by about 5,000,000 people
in Europe, Africa, the Americas, and Oceania: the Gypsy, or Romany,
dialects that are distributed about parts of Asia, the Middle East,
Europe, and North America are of Indo-Aryan origin. Speakers of Iranian
languages number in the tens of millions and live in areas extending
from Pakistan to Iran, Afghanistan, Transcaucasia, and Central Asia.
>
> What i see when i go to pakistan is just sikhs minus turbans. Most
look
> like the average north indian gujrati, rahjistani, punjabi one finds
> anywhere in India.
You are big liar! Your posts clearly demonstrate your ignorance about
Pakistan and Pakistanis. As far as Sikhs are concerned, even they are
distinct from most Indians, they have their own history and unlike most
Indians, are descended from Scythic peoples of Central Asia! Sikhs are
racially closely related to the people of Punjab-Sindh. It is no wonder
that Sikhs are waging a struggle for freedom from the Indians in East
Punjab (Khalistan), who (Indians/Hindus) have been perpetrating a
genocide against the Sikhs, killing more than 250,000 Sikhs since 1984.
Also, the people of NWFP, Northern Areas and most of Baluchistan are
identical to the people of Afghanistan and Iran---this includes
racially and linguistically(Iranian).
>punjab with no land boundary with iran is suddenly
> more iranian... what is wrong with you?
Dont blame me for your ignorance! The word "Punjab" itself is Persian---
the land of five rivers! Historical facts verify that Punjab was never
part of India, except for under the British, Muslim and Mauryan
periods, Punjab had nothing to do with India, either being independent
or part of empires/kingdoms to her west!
>Why don't you just admit you
> are ashamed to be who you are and get it over with.
You have accurately described your state of mind! Because of your
inferiority complex you are obsessed with claiming other people's
distinct heritage, and live in a Brahamanist-created world of mythology
and fantasies (i.e. wishful Brahmanist imperialism).
> The Indus civilization was where your ansestors were nurtured
Indus valley civilization is the proud heritage of most Pakistanis.
Except for peripheral areas of the Harappan civilization in parts of
northwest India (near the border of Pakistan), 95% of Indians have
nothing to do with it. While the region of Pakistan had one of the
greatest and sophisticated (Harappan) civilization in the world, most
of you Indians (95%) were still primitive (stone-age style) hunters and
gatherers!
>was where your ansestors were raped & forced into islam
Islam spread in Southasia by the efforts of the Sufis and other
peaceful missionaries, and historical facts verify that. With Hinduism
promoting caste slavery, apartheid, widow-burning, female infanticide,
temple prostitution, human sacrifice, corrupt worship of anything and
everything, etc etc..any one with common sense will agree that Hindus
who converted to Islam were attracted to Islam's message of one God,
equality, justice, simplicity, etc. Now as far as "rapes" are
concerned, you must be referring to your Dravidoid-Australoid ancestors
who were raped and enslaved by the invading barbaric Vedic Aryans.
> Just look at your "bloody punjabi language". Did that come from
> "central asia" or "turkey"? Friend, you are just trying to run from
> your heritage.
Punjabi language is classified as an Indo-Aryan language, derived from
the blend of Dravidian speaking Harappans, Central Asian Aryan and
Scythic languages, and enriched by Perso-Arabic languages--------having
nothing to do with Indians! And most Punjabis are proud of it.
> 10% my ass. 1 in 10 paindoos walking down the street does not have
> green eyes.
I bet your ass! Obviously you dont know anything about Pakistan! Even
several of my cousins have green/grey eyes! Your education must be
derived from cheap pamphlets circulated by the Indian govt, Brahmanist
organizations and their state-run tv propaganda!
> Most of Indian tribal population practice animism. Hinduism is an
elastic religion which encompasses all beliefs
> and mythologies and ledgends of the Indian civilization.
The Tribal people in India are far from Hinduism! No wonder Hinduism
treats them as Outcastes! Anyway, "Hinduism" is a bogus term, invented
by the Muslim-British invaders!
> What references did you give, you just give some crap like "buddhism
is
> completely different from hinduism"
Denying internationally accepted facts by reputed non-Pakistani
historians and anthropologists is not a clever thing to do! Your claim
of Buddhism as part of Hinduism is simply hogwash, only accepted by
Brahmanist imperialists.
cyberpa...@aol.com
I completely disagree! Majority of the racial element among Pakistanis
are descendents from the Iranic-Scythic peoples, who migrated from
Central Asia. Pakistanis are a blend of Harappan, Aryan, Scythic,
Kushan, Greek, Persian, Hun, Turk, Arab, etc. ancestory. Dont forget
that "Indian" is a bogus term, invented by the British imperialists,
who also created that entity (country).
cyberpa...@aol.com
Brahmanist Order are derived from
historical fraud spun by late 19th-20th century Brahmanist idealogues
and organizations (e.g. Vivekananda,
Dayananda, Gowalker; Brahmo Samaj, Arya Samaj, Hindu-Maha-Saba, RSS,
VHP, etc.) from the eastern
subcontinent. A new supremacist identity and history (neo-Brahmanism)
was invented for the Brahmanist
community (the “twice born” Brahmin/Bania orthodox castes - 7%
of "Hindus") by making wild, hegemonic
and fraudulent claims over the history, religions and civilizations of
historically separate southasian regions,
nations and peoples. Under neo-Brahmanist ideology, all of southasia
under British imperial rule was
fantasized as their 10,000 year old “One Hindu Nation" (Hindusthan) in
which the 7% Brahmanists, the
self-styled "superior Aryans", should be the "rightful ruling class".
With the westward expansion of the British Raj, historical propaganda
and claims designed to float the
Brahmanists' One Hindu Nation ambitions (really a Poorbia Brahmanist
fantasy of empire - "Hindu, Hindi,
Hindustan") were exported to newly annexed regions by Brahmanist
ideologues, politicians, socio-political
organizations and schools during the late 19th and early 20th century
(e.g. Arya Samaj founded in 1877, RSS
formed in 1925). The pre/post independence national politics of
Brahmanist dominated political
organizations, regardless of party or political affiliation, is rooted
in the historical consciousness and
hegemonic "One Hindu Nation" ideology and doctrines spawned by Neo-
Brahmanism.
The post-1947 India Union is in reality a "Casteocracy" run by the
supremacist Orthodox Brahmanical Castes
(OCs: Brahmins, Banias; 7% of "Hindus") or Brahmanists who came to
hijack the largest chunk of the former
British Indian Empire in 1947. It has been cleverly run under the ruse
of "world's biggest democracy" for the
past 50 years. The supremacist and hegemonic minded Brahmanist cliques
completely control the circles of
power and policy of the Indian state. Post 1947, almost all (95%) of
the top decision-making and managerial
positions in the country's administration, bureaucracy, state-run
media, press, huge state-run economic
sector, universities, army, police, etc. were stacked by Brahmanists
who form 7% of Hindus. Intriguingly,
Brahmanists did not have ruling class status or political dominance in
any significant country/region of
southasia before the British began creating their empire ("India")
during the 19th century.
According to statistics published by reputed Indian journalist and
historian Kushwant Singh, the Brahmins
alone (3.5% of "Hindus") control over 70% of the top decision-making
and managerial posts of the Indian
State. In 1935, the 3.5% Brahmins held around 4% of the officer
positions among Indians in the government.
By 1985, one finds that out of 3,300 Indian Administrative Officers
(IAS), 2,376 are Brahmins; from the rank ofdeputy secretaries upwards,
out of 500, 310 are Brahmins; of the 26 state chief secretaries, 19 are
Brahmins;
of the 16 Supreme Court judges, 9 are Brahmins; of 438 district
magistrates, 250 are Brahmins; and so on in
other circles of power and policy in the Indian state. Their state
power jumps from 70% to over 90% upon
including the remaining "twice born" Brahmanists.
The facts show that the 7% Brahmanists monopolize the top positions of
the Indian state and determine its
policies and actions (e.g. Swadeshi Permit Raj Economics, nuclear
testing, police/army rule and oppression
in all majority non-Hindu states, systemic human right abuses of
majority "lower castes" and minorities).
Under "Permit Raj" and "Swadeshi" economic policies, only the
Brahmanist cliques have been allowed to
invest and enter the new modern and profitable industrial and
manufacturing sectors while the rest of Indians
(93%) are tied to the plough, dwindling lands and the unskilled labor
market. The country was converted into a
huge "Brahmanist milking cow" through Brahmanist monopoly over the
corrupted, rent-seeking and
criminalized beaurocracy, political system and state-run industries
while the wealth generated in the private
economy is cornered through Swadeshi Permit Raj Economics. Genocidal
state terror and violence has been
unleashed on the populations of every non-Hindu majority state in the
Indian Union (e.g. Kashmir, Punjab,
Assam, Manipur, Mizoland, Nagaland, etc.) and communal rioting against
religious minorities is an integral
part of statecraft and politics by the Indian Government and Brahmanist-
lead political parties (1984 Sikh
“riots”, Ayodhya, 1991Bombay Muslim “riots”, etc.). The Brahmanists’
despised majority (80%) "lower castes"
and Dalits (untouchables) live under constant threat of random
police/army violence and torture to keep them
under submission and to discourage them from mobilizing politically.
This is the true hideous, criminal and genocidal nature of the 50 year
Casteocracy, imperialistically running
the old British empire and motivated by the hegemonic, supremacist and
racist socio-political ideology of
neo-Brahmanism. Unfortunately, Western opinion on events in India has
been largely shaped by the
viewpoint of Brahmanist propagandists who control the governmental
machinery/political
system/academics/state-run mass media/press/etc. Brahmanists have been
extremely effective in
propagating their historical and political mithya and propaganda and
hiding, deflecting and scapegoating
India's gruesome realities and the Brahmanist regime’s abysmal failures
and tyranny on their victims, lower
castes and religious minorities. Brahmanist emigrees to the west have
very zealously adopted the role of
“Indian Ambassadors” and guardians of the honor of their dishonorable
Casteocracy and perpetually cover-up
its criminal, corrupted and genocidal nature and spread neo-Brahmanist
doctrines and historical fraud to the
outside world.
Propagating the Fradulent "Hindu" Identity - the Chief Weapon of
Poorbia Brahmanist Imperialism
The Brahmanists came to power on the Congress elephant by deviously
converting the pre-independence
political debate and struggle into a communal Hindu-Muslim religious
struggle and propagating their
fradulent "Hindu" identity/nationalism to construct their majority
Hindu flock - naturally to be lead, lorded and
ruled by the "superior" 7% Brahmanists (i.e. the Brahmins/Banias
clique)! This was made possible by the
master stroke of Mahatama Gandhi - the Hindu nationalist cum holy
sadhu - who made "Hindus" a 55%
majority on paper in the 1920s upon getting the Dalits
or "untouchables" (20%) dubbed as "Hindus" by the
British. This coup moved the "Hindus" from 35% to a 55% majority in
British India. In pre-independence India, Muslims were 25%;
Sikhs/Christians/Buddhists/tribals/etc. formed the remaining 20%.
This action, along with recognition of Congress as the sole political
representative of all Indians in national
matters, was a payoff by the British colonial authorities to the
Brahmanist lead Congress and Gandhi for loyal
services rendered to Queen and empire in supporting their WWI war
effort; recruiting the "martial"
communities (e.g. Sikhs, Jats, Rajputs, Gujars of Saka-origin) of the
northwest and Muslims to go fight for the
British Empire in Europe/middle east; subduing, opposing, infiltrating
and sabotaging other
non-Congress/non-Brahmanist lead political parties and independence
movements organized at home (who
saw British weakness during the war as an ideal opportunity).
The 55% fraudulent "Hindu pile" was little more than a political game
of Brahmanist politicians and political
parties in Delhi while orthodox caste Hindus (7%) would not
eat/touch/marry/socialize or even worship with
their "polluted" Dalits (20% untouchables) in the 1920s. After
this "victory on paper", Brahmanist politicians,
political parties, and organizations totally communalized pre-
independence politics along "Hindu/Muslim"
religious lines of "nationhood" to get on the road to empire and
Delhi. Under the historical propaganda
campaign launched by Poorbia Brahmanist ideologues, organizations and
schools since the late 19-20th
century (e.g. "Arya" Samaj, HinduMahaSaba, RSS, etc.), the majority
Saka-Vedic people of the northwest has
been largely brainwashed into becoming the loyal and obedient
inferior "Hindu" flock of their Brahmanist
(Brahmins, Banias - 7%) masters, overlords and "Netajis".
Ironically, despite all the Poorbia Brahmanist historical mithya and
fantasy, the self-proclaimed "highest
caste" Brahmanists cannot name and date even one ruler of the northwest
over its 3500 year known history
since the start of the Vedic period (1500 BC); in the 50 years since
1947, there have been 6 Brahmin Rulers!
Prior to annexation by the British in the 19th century, the Sakas had
regained their historical power (500
BC-1200AD) and the entire northwest and west was under Saka rule and
political domination: Sikhs (Lahore,
Patiala, Nabha, Kashmir), Jats (Bharatpur, Dholpur, Agra, Bhawalpur),
Rajputs (Rajputana), Gujars (Gujarat,
western MP), Marathas (Maharashtra). Further, the terms "Hindu"
and "Hindusthan" were first imposed on
southasian nations and regions by the Afghan dynasty of Ghori in the
12th century; these terms were never
used in southasia prior to the Muslim era and are not even found in
early (pre-12th century AD) Brahmanical
or Buddhist texts. These terms and concepts have no "historical depth"
in any social, religious, ethnic or
national sense past the 12th century when Mohammed Ghori for the first
time named his conquered domains
in northern southasia "Hindusthan" and his subjects "Hindus".
What did Ghori's "Hindus" call themselves prior to the 12th century?
The chatur-varna ideology found in
gangetic Brahmanical texts only views society in terms of "inferior and
superior" castes (jatis) with separate
religious, social and legal rights/privledges; there is no notion of a
common religious community, nation or
people in Brahmanical holy texts! According to Brahmin Law Givers,
the "lower caste" Sudras (80%) were "too
polluted" to be seen fit to even enter their temples, worship their
devtas, and learn their religious scriptures.
Their holy texts repeatedly “forbid Brahmins” from travelling to the
northwest Vedic-Saka country. The region
was independent from the rest of southasia over 90% of its 3500 year
verifiable history and pursued its own
unique and separate ethnic, historical, political, religious,
linguistic, and cultural evolution.
cyberpa...@aol.com
Archeological evidence shows that the religion of Indus people was very
different from present day Hinduism. No doubt, there might be some
influences of Indus religion in present day Hinduism. Some people claim
to make connections between the two because of a few uncovered Indus
artifacts such as seals depicting the bull, a cross-legged person
sitting, peepul tree, etc. and remains of the great bath. Truth of the
matter is, just because bull is depicted in some pictorial seals does
not prove that it was holy/sacred. The significance of bull is noted in
many other ancient civilizations, such as among the Minoans, so do we
call the Minoans as Hindu? Furthermore, archeological research has
proven that beef was a major part of Indus people's diet. Therefore, it
is very unlikely that cow/bull had any sacred status among the Indus
people/religion. There is a better chance of the bull just being a food
good in the Indus marketplaces with seals symbolizing their ownership,
type of good, transaction receipts, or demanded price, etc. Then we
have the pictorial seals depicting a cross legged man sitting, like in
a meditating yoga position,labelled by some as a so-called proto-type
Shiva. Again, just because this horned headress wearing man is sitting
in a yoga-like position does not prove that it was Shiva. Meditation in
many different positions and forms can be found in other ancient
civilizations, so is meditation a Hindu phenomenon? Even if it
represents some kind of deity, why do some people limit themselves with
the proto-type of Shiva? Pictorial seals of peepul tree proves no
connection with Hinduism either. There are countless other pictorial
seals and artifacts uncovered at Indus sites that have nothing to do
with Hinduism, and there are countless features in other non-Indian
ancient civilizations that are common in Hinduism, so this logic of
connecting the Indus religion with Hinduism lacks evidence and makes no
sense. How about the great bath such as the one in MohenjoDaro? Why do
some people link this with Hindu religious tradition of bathing at
Ganges? It is ridiculous! Is taking bath a Hindu phenomenon? Do the
great baths in ancient Roman empire have a Hindu connection? So what is
so Hindu about the Indus Valley Civilization afterall? Even the dead
were buried, not cremated by the Indus people as the evidence shows.
Not a single artifact uncovered at Harappan sites bear any resemblance
to any Hindu idol/deity. If there are any connections, it is more
likely that Indus religion resembled closer to those of Mesopotamia.
cyberpa...@aol.com
loyal "twice born" tag-along Banias,
who collectively form 7% of "Hindus" (Mandal Commission), are the
superior "Vedic Aryans" and "kshatriyas"
who deserve to be the lords and ruling class of their Hindu flock and
empire while the rest, including
"minorities", (93%) should submit to their Caste Order and serve them
as loyal obedient chownkidars and
sudras (soldiers and labor). The old chatur-varna system (four caste
social ideology) of the gangetic
Brahmins blessed by their god Brahma in the Puranic "creation myth" was
updated under neo-Brahmanism
along 19th century lines of socio-racial Darwinianism.
Reality and Facts:
1) From geographical information in the RigVeda, the Vedic Period (1500-
500BC) was confined to the
northwest. The hyms composed by Vedic mystics/poets of the northwest
(Saptha Sindhva) tell that the Vedic
peoples worshipped non-Brahmanical Gods (Indra, Varuna, Mitra), ate
cows, elected their chiefs, drank liqor,
considered the Punjab rivers to be sacred, and refer to people living
to the south in the gangetic region as
"Dasyas"! None of the gangetic Brahmanical gods (e.g Ram, Krishna,
Vishnu, Brahma, etc.) are mentioned in
RigVeda hyms nor do they appear in connected Aryan Avestan texts and
Hittite tablets. Avestan terms for
soldiers ("rathaestar") and citizens ("vastriyo") are similar to Vedic-
derived terms (kshatriyas, vasihyas) but the
Avestan term for priest ("athravan") is not even close to "Brahmanas".
Moreover, central Gangetic religious
texts like the Mahabharta and VarnaAshramDharma of Manu call the Vedic
Aryans in Saptha Sindhva
"mlechas", "sudras" and "vratyas"; "forbid Brahmins? from even visiting
the northwest country ("Vahika-desa");
and depict dark Dravidian Gods like Krishna fighting and defeating
Vedic Aryan gods like Indra (Mahabharta).
Similarly, the RigVeda contains taboos and injunctions against
the "dasya-varta" region to the south of Saptha
Sindhva and praises Indra (god of thunderbolt) for victories
over "dasya-purahs" (dasya cities).
Both early RigVedic and gangetic Puranic sources clearly point to
ethnic, cultural and religious differences
and a "clash of civilizations and nations" at the ganga indicating that
the Vedic people and culture of the
northwest did not accept the gangetic priests, their gods, shastras,
religion, culture and Brahmanical caste
ideology. The eastern gangetic heartland is not only historically a
separate region, but geographically resides
over 1500 miles to the southeast of the Saptha Sindhva country. Uptil
the advent of Mohammed Ghori in the
13th century, the northwest was politically unified with southasia only
92 years under the Mauryas (out of 27
centuries) since the start of Saptha Sindhva's Vedic period (1500 BC).
2) A few Vedic tribes from Saptha Sindhva broke RigVedic norms and
migrated southward. These
numerically outnumbered groups expanding into the trans-gangetic region
near the end of the Vedic period
(8-6th century BC) tried to use the indigenous Dravidian priesthood to
entrench themselves as the new ruling
order. Within a few generations of acquiring control over the foreign
Gangasthan, the minority Vedic tribes
were usurped by the indigenous "borrowed" priesthood; their Aryan
religion, gods and customs mostly
deposed and supplanted with indigenous gangetic gods and mythologies;
and their new social order (varna
or color based) replaced with the pre-existing profession (jati) based
Brahmanical caste system
("chatur-varna" ). Through religious manipulation and intrigue, the
Vedic in-comers to Gangasthan were
usurped and made to surrender their political rule and soon pigeon-
holed into becoming the loyal obedient
chownkidars of their "superior" dravidic Brahmanas till the rise of
Buddhism two centuries later.
The religious and political revolt against Brahmanical hegemony started
by Rama (Bhagwatism) and the
Buddha (Sakamuni) - Vedic and Saka princes - in the 7-6th century BC
checked Brahmanical hegemony in
Gangasthan and provided the masses relief from its perversions (e.g.
Manu's code and laws) until its revival
and expansion by Shankarcharya of Malabar and cronies between 8-11th
century AD. Later, in revisionist
Brahmanical texts, attempts were devised to "absorb" both anti-
Brahmanical movements into Brahmanism
and eliminate them as threats by claiming both Rama and Buddha to be
reincarnations of Vishnu. The oldest
Brahmanical texts including the Ramayana date to the 11th century AD
(written in Devnagri, created in the 11th
century) while the older Buddhist Ramayanas (e.g. Tibetan, 8th century)
have vastly different storylines.
3) Despite the colonial racial complexes developed by Poorbia
Brahmanists during British rule and their revisionist and fantastical
19th century "One Hindu Nation"
propaganda, there is overwhelming historical and archeological evidence
of Brahmanism (so-called
"Hinduism") being of Dravidian origin from the historically and
geographically separate gangetic region
(Gangasthan). Social customs, dress, cuisine, dance, ethnicity,
cultural heritage, ethos and political history of
the two regions are very different.
4) As discussed below, the northwest country ("Saptha-Sindhva" in Rig
Veda, "Sakasthana" on Saka
inscriptions/coins) was politically independent from rest of southasia
over 97% of its history from the start of
its Vedic period to the Afghan conquest (500 BC - 1200 AD). Between
500 BC-1200 AD, it was under the
political rule of Saka tribes and dynasties who form 65% of the present
northwest population based on
ethnological information collected in colonial censuses. Saka priests
were known as "Magas" (Sun priests
who prayed to the sun for bountiful harvests) who, along with Buddhist
masters of Sakasthan, found
themselves out of work when Buddhism and its institutions declined
during 8-10th century. Many of them
eventually became recruited into the "Brahmin" fold (e.g. Saraswat,
Dakaut divisions) while gangetic
emigrants form the "Gaur" division of Brahmins. These Saka converts to
Brahmanism did not intermarry
Brahmins from other regions and divisions, ate meat and were
occupationally lax. Although they were
indoctrinated into the gangetic caste ideology, they have always been
regarded as a "lower grade" by the
easterly orthodox Brahmins. Brahmins as a whole in southasia are
ethnically, culturally and racially a diverse
heterogenous group geographically distributed up to Indonesia, Burma
and Thailand, while the Saka-Vedic
population is predominantly confined to the northwest country where
they form the majority.
chacha_...@my-deja.com
cyberpa...@aol.com wrote:
Mr. Cut and Paste CyberPakistani....
Long time back there was this deranged Khalistani called Gurupadesh
Singh who used to regurgitate the net with this very nonsense
Now are you Gurupadesh or have your Sikh genes have started to flare ???
> Neo-Brahmanist social and racial dogma asserts that Brahmins and their
> loyal "twice born" tag-along Banias,
> who collectively form 7% of "Hindus" (Mandal Commission), are the
> superior "Vedic Aryans" and "kshatriyas"
cyberpa...@aol.com
chacha_...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <93fq3i$6iv$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> cyberpa...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Mr. Cut and Paste CyberPakistani....
>
> Long time back there was this deranged Khalistani called Gurupadesh
> Singh who used to regurgitate the net with this very nonsense
>
Yeah it is taken from a website, but it is based on facts, which you
ignorant Brahmanists can either ignore or deny!
cyberpa...@aol.com
alizad...@my-deja.com wrote:
> The very word India is a European invention, and today this is your
> official title for your "nation". Just serves to show the slaves that
> you still are. Why don't I see "bharat" in the world map?
>
> The word Hindu was a Persian invention, given to you by your Persian
> masters. To this day you have kept this word sacred and official as
> your identity.
>
> Never has a nation been so pitifully lowly. I pity you losers.
>
Very true!!! Even "Bharat" was only the name for a small ancient Aryan
kingdom in the Jumna-Ganges region of north India, derived from an
invading Aryan tribe called "Bharatas" from the region of Pakistan!
Night23
> However, the term "Indo-Aryan" is associated with linguistics/language.
I think the CIA (world fact book) knows what its doing about when it
uses the subheading Ethnic, followed by a separate category for
Languages and then Religions when describing India. Who are you the
arab wannabe to claim they don't know what they're doing? Indo-Aryan is
an ethnicity which encompasses races, religions and languages. I quote
you the definition of ethnic again Ethnic : A sizable group sharing a
common and distinctive racial, linguistic and cultural heritage.
Languages : Hindi (national lang., primary tongue of 30% of pop.),
English (national, political, and commercial lang.), 14 official
languages
Major Religions : Hindu 80%, Muslim 14%, Christian 2.4%, Sikh 2%,
Buddhist 0.7%, Jains 0.5%, other 0.4%
Ethnic groups : Indo-Aryan 72%, Dravidian 25%, Mongoloid and other 3%
For Saudi Arabia, CIA World Factbook lists the following ethnicities :
Ethnic groups : Arab 90%, Afro-Asian 10%
Are you now going to tell me that Afro-Asian refers to a language?
> You are big liar! Your posts clearly demonstrate your ignorance about
> Pakistan and Pakistanis.
Prove me wrong when I say majority of pakistanis are racially just sikhs
minus turbans as opposed to arabs or turks as you like to claim them to
be. Contest the fact that geographically, pakistan is but an appendage
of India.
> As far as Sikhs are concerned, even they are
> distinct from most Indians, they have their own history
Come now, you are grasping at straws. A sign you have no answer to the
question as to why no self-respecting sikh claims he decended from
Turkey or Arabia and yet you, the arab wannabe, comes from uzbekistan,
iran, saudi arabia, turkey and beyond. Which is I have said pakistanis
wish very much they were born arabs, and not pakistanis. You only
reinforce that point everytime you try to deny your heritage.
> Also, the people of NWFP, Northern Areas and most of Baluchistan are
You mean those ex-patans? Wonder why you don't put forward the argument
here that they are only linguistically and not racially the same as you
have been trying so desparately to do while denying your Indic
heritage. Or is that strategy only used when trying to forward the
quest to be a fake arab? As far as I know, the majority of Pakistan's
population is overwhelmingly Punjabi & Sindhi both of which are of Indic
groups racially. A nation is defined by its majority, not its
minority. For that matter a good portion of India is of mongloid
origin. That does not turn Indians into Chinese. Why this desparation
to get away from what the majority of pakistanis are? Are you ashamed
of being paki culturally and racially? Everytime you open you mouth to
put forward some nonsense theory, I am reminded more and more how
pakistanis wish they were born 2000 - 3000 kms to the west rather than
where they are.
>> punjab with no land boundary with iran is suddenly
>> more iranian... what is wrong with you?
> Dont blame me for your ignorance! The word "Punjab" itself is Persian---
> the land of five rivers!
And this proves what? The British named Bharat as India. So according
to you, Indians have suddenly become European caucasians. Since you
claimed Hindus did not exist until persians arrived with the name Hindu,
then should I now claim also that punjab did not exist until some
persians invented the term punjab? Trapped by your own bullshit logic
yet again.
> Punjab had nothing to do with India, either being independent
> or part of empires/kingdoms to her west!
Friend, I am perfectly sure than in your fantasies Pakistan lies just
off the coast of turkey in the Agean sea where men with blue and green
eyes are looked up as gods of the world. But no amount of whitewashing
history is going to cleanse the sikh genes in you. Sikhs and Hindus are
found all the way in afghanistan even today and despite all the
oppression, they remain true to their roots. Be proud of your identity,
race and culture and forget the lewis farakkan strategy of raiding
history in hopes of being a fake arab. Don't you even find it the least
bit embarassing trying so hard to claim some foreign culture &
identity? You are like the proverbial michael jackson who stunned the
public by suddenly turning from black african into white european
overnight.
> While the region of Pakistan had one of the
> greatest and sophisticated (Harappan) civilization in the world, most
Dravidians built Harrapan also known as the Indus Civilization and it
was around even before the aryan invasion. Considering the written
language of harrapan was a 500 character dravidian script and pockets of
dravidian languages survive in Pakistan even today, are you going to
deny the dravid heritage of this "pakistan civilization"? My guess is
yes becos it damages the quest to be a fake arab.
> Islam spread in Southasia by the efforts of the Sufis
90% of islam was spread by force. Even mohammad killed & forcefully
converted pagan arabs & jews in mecca to 'spread' islam. The killing
went on till it reaced right into India. (Rest assured they passed
pakistan along the way, not like paki history books which will tell you
alexander the great invaded india but not pakistan). Just look at the
"heros" of pakistan today like ghazni and gauri who attacked, raped and
took slaves from what is today pakistan. 50,000 alone murdered in
multan for "glory of allah". Historian f. watson writes :
"Such said his chroniclers was the decision reached by Mahmud Ghanzi,
who over the first quarter of the 11th century inflicted a total of 17
invasions...Massacares and destruction marked his path, slaves of both
sexes were carried off by the hundred thousand, temples and treasuries
were looted."
Now how many of your ansestors went down under the sword to this muslim
hoodlum and how many were carried off as slaves by these heros of the
"pakistani civilization"? I know pakistanis hate to be reminded of
their history, but you by far are the worst of wannabe crowd.
> peaceful missionaries
Islam has historically been spread through murder, looting and by
forcible conversions. The only time it was ever peacefully accepted is
when the sudra's converted to escape their caste. Most of those are
mohajirs like altaf hussein of current day pakistan.
> > 10% my ass. 1 in 10 paindoos walking down the street does not have
> > green eyes.
>
> I bet your ass! Obviously you dont know anything about Pakistan!
Dude, take the foot off your bullshit accelerator for a while. You
can't fool a person like me who has been to Pakistan 5 times and who has
relatives in pakistan and even in kabul, afghanistan. Not even 1 in 100
paindoos walking down the road has green colored contact lenses and
suddenly you claim 1 in 10 paindoos have green eyes. In my whole life I
have only seen 2 paindoos with gray eyes and one of them had a cataract
(disease of the eye). Most paindoos have one of either dark brown or
black beady eyes.
> The Tribal people in India are far from Hinduism!
They worship tribal dieties represented by idols and the elements. They
claim themselves to be Hindus and no one in India contests that they are
Hindus so who are you the green eyed fake arab to say otherwise?
> Your claim
> of Buddhism as part of Hinduism is simply hogwash
Dharma, reincarnation, renunciation of worldly desires, meditation,
pennance.... all these philosophical concepts came from where, turkey?
You suck man. Completely. I have more respect for the barbarian
afghans who at least have the courage to stand with their identity and
country however fucked-up it has become than pakis punjabis who are on a
day & night mission to be fake arabs. One thing however I have learnt
for certain and that is this :
There is a great market for green colored contact lenses in pakistan
waiting to be discovered.
cyberpa...@aol.com
Night23 <nig...@nightynight.com> wrote:
>
> I think the CIA (world fact book) knows what its doing about when it
> uses the subheading Ethnic, followed by a separate category for
> Languages and then Religions when describing India.
My friend, you have a lot to learn! Classification of linguistic
families is a different thing from classification of languages. Indo-
Aryan is a linguistic classification (Indo-Aryan is a sub-branch of the
Indo-Iranian branch of Indo-European family of languages), which
includes languages of Hindi, Bengali, Gujarati, etc. With these
linguistic classifications, a linguist means that the languages are
closely related to each other in any given branch of family, with
similar syntax, phonology, morphology, vocabulary, etc. and thus a
common origin (a fusion of 80% Aryan linguistic elements with 20%
Dravidian-Austric linguistic elements). So the CIA fact book gave
ethnic demography of India based on linguistic families, as it
summarizes all the languages, also, the Indo-Aryan peoples do have a
distinct racial make-up, which is about 80% Dravidoid-Australoid and
18% Aryan-Caucasoid (more or less--based on region). Indo denotes the
aboriginal (Dravidoid-Australoid) element and Aryan denotes the Iranian
(Caucasoid) element, thus the usage of Indo-Aryan.
>Indo-Aryan is
> an ethnicity which encompasses races, religions and languages.
Yeah.. please do keep showing your ignorance. If Indo-Aryan includes
religion, then explain to me why are there millions of Indo-Aryan
Muslims, Christians, and others (such as Punjabis, Sindhis, Romanis,
etc)? Also tell me why does an Indo-Aryan Caucasoid-looking Kashmiri
Pandit is racially different from an Indo-Aryan Dravidoid-Australoid-
looking Bengali?
> be. Contest the fact that geographically, pakistan is but an
appendage
> of India.
>
INDIA: A BRITISH INVENTION
Present-day "India" is the remnant of the artificial administrative
unit created by the British colonial rulers. That administrative unit
is not a nation or a country by any natural definition. It is a
conglomeration of many nationalities that the British conquered one by
one and consolidated into a single administrative unit for ease of
governance. No administrative unit, country, nation or empire of this
nature and geographical extent existed in the Southasian Subcontinent
before the British conquest. Southasia was always a land of many
different nations, kingdoms, languages, races, cultures, religions,
etc.
The word "India" itself was an European invention, which they (the
British colonialists and others) collectively imposed on the many
conquered nations of Southasia, simply as a geographic term (In the
words of W. Churchill, "India is no more a country than the
Equator"). "India" is derived from "Ind," a word borrowed from the
ancient Greeks and Romans, who used it ("Ind") to only denote the
region of Indus valley (Sindh-u) and not the region of present-day
India. The Greek-Roman word of "Ind" is actually the corruption of the
Persian word "Hind". Ancient Persians also called only the region of
Indus Valley as "Hind(a)," which is the altered form of the indigenous
word for the region: "Sindh(u)". It was only starting from the Muslim
era, that "Hind" was further used by Muslim invaders to mostly denote
the region of present-day India, while "Sindh" (then comprising most of
present-day Pakistan) retained it's name.
It is shameful for today's "Indians/Hindus" that the present-day terms
of "India, Hindustan, Hind, and Hindu" were given by the Muslim
invaders and British colonialists, derived from "Sindh(u)," which (i.e
Sindh-u) has nothing to do with them, not to mention it is not even
part of present-day India. Even "Bharat" was actually the name for a
small ancient Aryan kingdom in the Jumna-Ganges region of north India,
which is derived from an invading Aryan tribe called "Bharatas" from
the region of Afghanistan.
The land and people of Pakistan from 3000 BC to the present:
1. Indus Valley Civilization: 3000-1500 B.C. i.e. about 1500
yrs. Independent, mostly separate from India.
2. Aryan period: 1500-522 B.C. i.e. about 978 yrs. Independent,
separate from India.
3. Small semi-independent states: 522-326 B.C. i.e. about 196 yrs.
Under the suzerainty of Iran's Kayani Empire.
4. Conquered by Alexander and remained under his successor: 326-300
B.C. i.e. about 26 yrs. Under Greek rulers, not part of India.
5. Province of Mauryan Empire which included Afghanistan: 300-200
B.C. i.e. about 100 yrs. Part of India, mostly Buddhist rule.
6. Graeco-Bactrian period: 200-100 B.C. i.e. about 100 yrs.
Independent, not part of India.
7. Saka-Parthian period: 100 B.C.- 70 A.D. i.e. about 170
yrs. Independent, separate from India.
8. Kushan rule (1st phase): 70-250 A.D. i.e. about 180
yrs. Pakistan-based kingdom ruled over major portion of north India.
9. Kushan rule (2nd phase): 250-450 A.D. i.e. about 200
yrs. Independent, separate from India.
10. White Huns and allied tribes (1st phase): 450-650 A.D. i.e.
about 200 yrs. Pakistan-based kingdoms ruled over parts of north India.
11. White Huns (2nd phase--- mixed with other races): 650-1010 A.D.
i.e. about 360 yrs. Independent Rajput-Brahmin Kingdoms, not part of
India.
12. Ghaznavids: 1010-1187 A.D. i.e. 177 yrs. Part of Ghaznavid
empire, separate from India.
13. Ghorid and Qubacha periods: 1187-1227 A.D. i.e. about 40
yrs. Independent, not part of India.
14. Muslim period (Slave dynasty, Khiljis, Tughlaqs, Syeds,
Lodhis, Suris and Mughals): 1227-1739 A.D. i.e. about 512 yrs. Under
north
India based MUSLIM govts.
15. Nadir Shah and Abdali periods: 1739-1800 A.D. i.e. about 61
yrs. Iranian and Afghan suzerainty, not part of India.
16. Sikh rule (in Punjab, NWFP and Kashmir), Talpur rule in
Sind, Khanate of Kalat in Baluchistan: 1800-1848 A.D. i.e. about
48
yrs. Independent states, not part of India.
17. British rule: 1848-1947 A.D. i.e. about 99 yrs (1843-1947 in
Sind). Part of India under FOREIGN rule.
18. Muslim rule under the nomenclature of Pakistan: 1947-
present. Independent, not part of India.
> Come now, you are grasping at straws. A sign you have no answer to
the
> question as to why no self-respecting sikh claims he decended from
Not only educated Sikhs are aware of their distinct history from India,
but other reputed international historians (non-Pakistani) have also
published countless books which verify the fact that Sikhs are have a
distinct history from most Indians, similar to most Punjabi Muslims and
Sindhis. Most Sikhs are Jats/etc., who have Central Asian Scythic
origins (mixed with others) and were rarely part of present-day India.
The word Jat is derived from the Scythic tribe of Masse-Jatae. Here is
an article about Scythians written by a Sikh historian, Dr.R. Singh:
The Scythians inhabiting Central Asia at the time of Herodotus (5th
century B.C.) consisted of 4 main
branches known as the MassaGatae, Sacae, Alani, and Sarmatians, sharing
a common language, ethnicity
and culture. Ancient Greek (e.g. Herodotus, Pliny, Plotemy, Arrian) and
Persian sources (Darius's
historians) from the 5th century place the MassaGatea as the most
southerly group in the Central Asian
steppe. The earliest Scythians who entered the northern regions of
South Asia were from this group.
Historians derive "Jat" fom "Gatae", "Ahir" from "Avar", "Saka"
from "Scythii", "Gujjar" from "Khazar",
"Thakur" from "Tukharian", "Saurashtra" from "Saura Matii"
or "Sarmatians", "Sessodia" (a Rajput clan)
from "Sassanian", "Madra" from "Medes", "Trigartta" from "Tyri Getae"
and "Sulika" from "Seleucids".
"Massa" means "grand" or "big" in old Iranian - the language of the
Scythians.
The early Sakas or Scythians are remembered by Greek (e.g. Herodotus,
Megatheses, Pliny, Ptolemy)
and Persian historians of antiquity as tall, large framed and fierce
warriors who were unrivalled on the
horse. Herodotus from the 5th century BC writes in an eye-witness
account of the Scythians: "they were
the most manly and law-abiding of the Thracian tribes. If they could
combine under one ruler, they would
be the most powerful nation on earth." According to their origin myth
recorded by Herodotus, the Sakas
arose when three things fell from the sky: the i) plough, ii) sword and
iii) cup. The progenitor of the Sakas
picked them up and hence the Saka race began its long history of
conquering lands, releasing its bounties
and enjoying the fruits of their labor (the cup has a ceremonial-
spiritual-festive symbolism). The relevance
of these symbols and codes of life and culture to the traditional
Punjabi and northwest society are
tantalizingly obvious. A branch of the Sakas kown as the Alani reached
regions of Europe, Asia Minor
and the Middle East. They have been connected to the Goths of
France/Spain, Saxons and the Juts of
Denmark.
Entry into Southasia
Some of these Saka tribes entered northwest Southasia through the
Khyber pass, others through the more
southerly Bolan pass which opens into Dera Ismail Khan in Sindh. From
here some invading groups went north, others went south, and others
further east. This explains why some Jat, Gujjar and Rajput clans claim
descent from Rajasthan (Chauhan, Powar, Rathi, Sial etc.) while others
from Afghanistan (e.g. Mann, Her, Bhullar, Gill, Bajwa, Sandhu, etc.).
This is supported by the fact that the oldest Rajput geneologies (10th
centuries) do not extend into the northwest's Gandharan Buddhist period
(400 B.C. - 900 AD).
Sir Cunningham (former Director General of Indian Archeological survey)
writes:
"the different races of the Scythians which succesively appeared
as conquerors in the
border provinces of Persian and India are the following in the
order of arrival: Sakas or
Sacae (the Su or Sai of the Chinese - B.C. ?), Kushans (the great
Yue-Chi (Yuti) of the
Chinese - B.C. 163), Kiddarite or later Kushans (the little Yue-
chi of the Chinese - A.D.
450) and Epthalites or White Huns (the Yetha of the Chinese - 470
A.D.).
Cunningham further notes that
". . . the successive Scythian invasions of the Sakas, the
Kushans, and the White Huns,
were followed by permanent settlements of large bodies of their
countrymen . . ".
Cunningham and Tod regard the Huns to be the last Scythian wave to have
entered India.
Herodotus reveals that the Scythians as far back as the 5th century
B.C. had political control over Central
Asia and the northern subcontinent up to the river Ganges. Later Indo-
Scythic clans and dynasties (e.g.
Mauryas, Rajputs) extended their control to other tracts of the
northern subcontinent.
According to Ethnographers and historians like Cunningham, Todd,
Ibbetson, Elliot, Ephilstone, Dahiya,
Dhillon, Banerjea, etc., the agrarian and artisan communities (e.g.
Jats, Gujars, Ahirs, Rajputs, Lohars,
Tarkhans etc.) of the entire west are derived from the war-like
Scythians who settled north-western and
western South Asia in successive waves between 500 B.C. to 500 AD. Down
to this day, the very name
of the region `Gujarat' is derived from the name `Khazar', whilst
`Saurashtra' denotes `Sun-worshipper', a
common term for the Scythians. The northwest Southasian region
continues to be the most Scythic region in the world.
The oldest Rajputs clans arose much later from earlier Scythic groups;
or are of Hun origin (5-6th century AD); and many are no doubt of mixed
Scythic-Hun origin. Virtually all are of Scythic descent.
>Wonder why you don't put forward the argument
> here that they are only linguistically and not racially the same as
you
>A nation is defined by its majority, not its
> minority.
NWFP, Baluchistan, etc represents about 25% of the population and 75%
of the land in Pakistan. Baluchis, Pakhtuns, etc are lingistically
Iranian and racially mostly (95%) Aryan-Caucasoid peoples. The
remaining peoples of Sindh and Punjab are linguistically Indo-Aryan and
racially a mix of 75% Aryan-Caucasoid, 20% Dravidoid-Australoid, and 5%
others.
> And this proves what? The British named Bharat as India. So
according
> to you, Indians have suddenly become European caucasians. Since you
> claimed Hindus did not exist until persians arrived with the name
Hindu,
> then should I now claim also that punjab did not exist until some
> persians invented the term punjab?
For a change, please think with your brain. First of all, the British
not only invented the name of India, they also created that
country/entity. Also, Bharat was only the name of a small Aryan kingdom
in the Jumna-Ganges region of present-day north India. Punjab was named
by Persian-speaking Iranic ancentors of present-day Punjabis, and yes
prior to getting its name and provincial status, there was no such
thing as Punjab, it was part of Gandhara and/or Sindh.
> Dravidians built Harrapan also known as the Indus Civilization and it
> was around even before the aryan invasion. Considering the written
> language of harrapan was a 500 character dravidian script and pockets
of
> dravidian languages survive in Pakistan even today, are you going to
> deny the dravid heritage of this "pakistan civilization"?
Whether Harappan civilization was Dravidian or not (it is still
unknown, since the Indus script is still undeciphered), the fact is it
was mostly based in the region of Pakistan. It is the proud heritage of
Pakistanis, and 95% of you Indians have nothing to do with it. So stop
claiming other people's heritage, get rid of your inferiority complex
and be proud of your nomadic/forest-dwelling Dravidoid-Australoid food-
hunting-gathering ancestors in India during the Harappan era.
Night23
> >Indo-Aryan is
> > an ethnicity which encompasses races, religions and languages.
>
> Pandit is racially different from an Indo-Aryan Dravidoid-Australoid-
> looking Bengali?
Bengalis are East Indians, not North Indians. The difference between
the average Indian Gujrati, Punjabi, Rahjistani, UPite and the pandit is
small to nil. Just as the difference between the punjabi muslim and
punjabi hindu and punjabi sikh is effectively nil. Its only you who
dream of being a turk who is unable to accept it and looking to cleanse
yourself of your sikh genes. Blood biochemical analysis will give you
the realative difference between various groups and sub-groups of people
of the subcontinent. Pakistan which is not even one generation old has
not become a white blonde haired blue eyed caucasian country overnight
as you fantasize. I have seen pakis darker than the average bengali for
that matter. What is your obsession with color anyway? Are you ashamed
of being a brown man and a paki? Hoping perhaps a little of bosnian
genes might whiten you up a bit and cleanse you of who you are?
Everytime I see your slavishness, it disgusts me even further.
> Southasia was always a land of many
> different nations, kingdoms, languages, races, cultures, religions,
> etc.
Why do you keep running around in circles when there have clearly been
many empires which unified huge parts of India at some point. For that
matter when has pakistan ever been a cohesive entity seperate from India
with a single race and culture? All nations have a starting point,
Britain is a conglomeration of the Angles, Saxons of which comprise
English, Scotts, Welch etc etc which has held together on account of a
preceived national identity. The US is a conglomeration of a huge
variety of European, Native and other races. Most Indians believe they
have a common culture, racial, linguistic and historical affiliation
with one another and that is sufficient for any nation to exist. Its
only lame pakis like you who are on a quest to be fake arabs because you
are ashamed of your identity & culture and are desparate to take on
foreign ones. That is really the reason why bangladeshis were murdered
in east pakistan - rule by bangladeshis was a major impedement to the
desire of paindoos to project themselves as fake arabs. Don't I hit the
nail on the head? :-)
> that Sikhs are have a
> distinct history from most Indians
Sikhs are not cowards like you ashamed of who they are and want to be
fake arabs. They are proud of their culture and roots which are part
and parcel of India and her culture. Who are you the green eyed fake
arab wannabe who won't own up to his own culture and history looking
desparately for a foreign identity to say otherwise? Air India has a
smart looking little sikh maharaja as its mascott and most Indians are
proud of it. I suggest you put an arab on a camel as the mascot for air
pakistan to reflect genuine national aspirations.
> The early Sakas or Scythians are remembered by Greek (e.g. Herodotus,
> Megatheses, Pliny, Ptolemy)
Listen, no Indian gives a fuck about some 3000 year greek orign crap.
For that matter, why don't you trace your origns back all the way back
to the apes in africa and claim affiliation to negros there? I have yet
to hear of any self-respecting sikh who wants be seen as a greek. Most
sikhs proudly wear their religious headgear despite all the
discrimination they face in western society proving they have inner
strenght and are not superficial lame asses like you seeking to be a
brown sahib.
> The
> remaining peoples of Sindh and Punjab are linguistically Indo-Aryan and
> racially
... sikh minus turbans.
> Whether Harappan civilization was Dravidian or not (it is still
> unknown, since the Indus script is still undeciphered),
Your worst nightmare has come true. The Indus script already has
already been deciphered :
"The civilization was literate, and its script, with some 250 to 500
characters, has been partly and tentatively deciphered; the language has
been tentatively identified as Dravidian." -Britannica
So now you know where the "pakistani civilization" comes from.
chacha_...@my-deja.com
cyberpa...@aol.com wrote:
> In article <93g0gl$bm1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> chacha_...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > In article <93fq3i$6iv$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> > cyberpa...@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Mr. Cut and Paste CyberPakistani....
> >
> > Long time back there was this deranged Khalistani called Gurupadesh
> > Singh who used to regurgitate the net with this very nonsense
> >
>
> Yeah it is taken from a website, but it is based on facts
Facts require an educated reference, unfortunately Gurupadesh and his
brand can only produce khali-stani junk refs.
Try again, cypher-pakistani....
Give me a good reference to back your claims...
, which you
> ignorant Brahmanists can either ignore or deny!
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
>
--
Assi Pratishat BaiMan, Phir Bhi Mera Bharat Mahan