An Islamic NG -and- talk about -Jews-?
oving
(Muslims) on this Islamic NG, but can talk a lot about others (Jews)
Hey, did you guys find another victim/bad guy/enemy?
Must be a sad life to aim your hate on some or someone.
Peace,
Oving.
--
'Who hath ascended up into the heavens, and descended?
Who hath gathered the wind in his fists?
Who hat bound the waters in a mantle?
Who hath established all the ends of the earth?
What is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou knowest?
'
(Proverbs 30:4)
'For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given;
and the government shall be upon his shoulder;
and his name is called
Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity,
Prince of Peace.
'
(Isaiah 9:6)
'I was anointed from eternity,
from the beginning, before the earth was.
'
(Proverbs 8:23)
Maher B.
--
Anyone that judges a whole group by the actions of one member of that
group is an ignorant idiot.
73:10 And remain steadfast in face of their utterances, and disregard
them
in a nice manner.
41:34 Not equal is the good response and the bad response. You shall
resort
to the nicest possible response. Thus, the one who used to be your enemy,
may
become your best friend.
La hawla wala quota el belah al'ali alatheem,
Any mistakes are mine and I stand corrected
Allah knows best and all
Obeid Allah
Maher Barakat
Spam protected email, remove "dot me" from reply address to reply
oving wrote in message <3640B4...@wxs.nl>...
oving
>
> Look in the mirror and say that to yourself ... pathetic !!!
Well, I see according your comments that nothing changes the better.
PaulG
Muslim newsgroup.
Clean up your own backyard.
Regards,
PaulG
oving wrote:
> It seems to be that there are some who can't talk about theirself
> (Muslims) on this Islamic NG, but can talk a lot about others (Jews)
>
> Hey, did you guys find another victim/bad guy/enemy?
>
> Must be a sad life to aim your hate on some or someone.
>
Pen1418hj
Parusing through the immense quantity of ARI posts, I happened upon one that
began as such:
>It seems to be that...<snip>
*Yawn*
Guess I'll keep on moving...
pen1418hj
oving
>
> Oving, you should know. A so-called "Christian" baiting Muslims in a
> Muslim newsgroup.
> Clean up your own backyard.
>
> Regards,
>
> PaulG
PaulG, I am not the only one that has concern about these postings about
Jews on this NG.
Muslims commented also.
Your example fails dramatically in this case, we are not talking about
Jews coming here talking about Islamic issues, but about Muslims talking
about Jewish issues.
Apples, and bananas.
Very different.
Peace,
Oving.
PaulG
Hindus, Hindus at Sikhs, etc., ad nauseam. Muslims, or those claiming to be
such, have no business resorting to verbal or other abuse against anyone.
On this I am certain we, and all people of reason, agree. (Unfortunately,
this NG seems to be rife with unreasonable and profane posters... something
I guess one must live with in an unmoderated NG)
The intention of my post, however, is meant to say that you and others seem
to repeating quite a few diatribes aptly refuted by Jeremiah and others.
The only Christians, besides Rita, that seem to post here are
fundamentalists of a confrontational mindset. Why is that, do you think?
Regards,
PaulG
oving
> The only Christians, besides Rita, that seem to post here are
> fundamentalists of a confrontational mindset. Why is that, do you think?
That are generalizing statements.
So there is no answer to your question.
INFORMATION SERVICES
>The intention of my post, however, is meant to say that you and others seem
>to repeating quite a few diatribes aptly refuted by Jeremiah and others.
>fundamentalists of a confrontational mindset. Why is that, do you think?
>
>
>PaulG
>
I thought jeremiah was a diatribe:)
The reason few Xtians and non muslims post on this NG, is that for most people
Islam is a way out religion. A bit like debating whether the moon is made of
green cheese, it is not worthy of people's time. There is a danger that all
religion is going this way, hence my post is islam killing God. it is
something for muslims and others to think about.
As regard the talk of the jews, the koran is full of jewish issues. They were
the main religious and intellectual enemy of muhammad.
Adam
Adam
Pen1418hj
>
>the main religious and intellectual enemy of muhammad.
>
>Adam
Reasons to dismiss the aforementioned assertions:
1) Completely uncorroborated by primary sources.
2) From Adam.
pen1418hj
john smith
Pen1418hj wrote:
Thank you for that Pen, it was funny:)
I am having fun here on yet another newsreader, anyone care to tell me how
Netscape collabra newsreader works?
Anyway back to islam;
Point 1. It may be uncorroborated, but is it true? The Koran is uncorroborated! If
you read the Koran (I presume you have:) it is full of stories about the jews as
is the hadith.
Point 2. It is from Adam, well I do not think you should attack a prophet of God
in this way, it is unislamic is it not:)
The other Adam
Khurram Muhammad
> The reason few Xtians and non muslims post on this NG, is that for most people
> Islam is a way out religion. A bit like debating whether the moon is made of
> green cheese, it is not worthy of people's time.
So that they can have their "intellectual debates" about whether the moon is made
is a ball of milk or milk which looks like a ball. Atheists put their 2 cents in
saying that moon is an illusion and there is nothing up there. ;-)
So how about the second hypothesis that Islam states such simple truth that one
is just compelled to go "way out" to reject it. "way out" means self-dellusional,
persistantly inconsistent reasoning and unprovable assertions which somehow end
up showing a double standard.
;-)
john smith
Khurram Muhammad wrote:
If you say so:)
Adam
PaulG
professing Christianity, (e.g., yourself, Afra-Span, Devon, Jochen Katz), the
theology is straight fundamentalist. By this word, I mean no insult, and I do
not apply it in any sense but the original. The party line tends to be
anti-Islam and anti-Catholic (or any "high church," for that matter). When one
such as Rita professes Christianity of a Roman Catholic flavour, she is
attacked as "not really a Christian."
When I have stated that I am a convert/revert to Islam, I have been dismissed
as one that "really didn't understand Christianity," else I would have never
become "lost in Islam."
Sir, I understand the Christian faith quite well, both internally (within my
spirit) and externally. The Bible itself quotes Isa (pbuh) as stating that a
loving father will not give a serpent when a fish is asked, a stone when bread
is asked. I have asked of Allah (swt) and have been given. My peace is not of
this world, but is more satisfying, challenging, and wonderful than any I have
ever known. Of course, the group attacking Islam here and on other NG's would
say this is a deception from al-shaitaan, but, again, Allah has not given me
the serpent when I asked for true food.
Regards,
PaulG
oving wrote:
> PaulG wrote:
>
> > The only Christians, besides Rita, that seem to post here are
> > fundamentalists of a confrontational mindset. Why is that, do you think?
>
Pen1418hj
>this world, but is more satisfying, challenging, and wonderful than any I
>have
>ever known.
Allahu Akbar!
pen1418hj
oving
>
> No, oving, they are true statements, sincerely asked. Of those openly
> professing Christianity, (e.g., yourself, Afra-Span, Devon, Jochen Katz), the
> theology is straight fundamentalist. By this word, I mean no insult, and I do
> not apply it in any sense but the original. The party line tends to be
> anti-Islam and anti-Catholic (or any "high church," for that matter). When one
> such as Rita professes Christianity of a Roman Catholic flavour, she is
> attacked as "not really a Christian."
> Regards,
> PaulG
Thank you for giving the evidence of generalizing yourself.
It could not be more reliable than to read that from your own hand.
I do not fit your description of your so called 'fundamentalist' and
don't want to, but, however, you are convinced to put me in that line.
That is -again- one of your generalizing statements.
Thanks for giving me a more secure description of yourself.
Peace,
Oving.
Pen1418hj
If there are no primary sources to corroborate your claim, there's no way of
proving it true. Henceforth, your claim is pure conjecture and inadmissable.
>The Koran is uncorroborated!
(LOL!) What in the *world* are you talking about? This statement makes about
as much sense as a square circle.
> If
>you read the Koran (I presume you have:) it is full of stories about the jews
>as
>is the hadith.
But your claim was that the Jews were the *main* nemesis of The Prophet
Muhammed (SAW). This completely overlooks inimical Pagan tribes such as The
Quraysh and hypocrites as well. Moreover, it takes neither the rebellious
facet of self, nor Shaytan into consideration. Ergo, your claim falls flat on
its proverbial face--squashed rather thoroughly.
>Point 2. It is from Adam, well I do not think you should attack a prophet of
>God
>in this way, it is unislamic is it not:)
tee hee. Oh, you're *such* a silly little girl.
>The other Adam
Ah! The alter ego...Well, in any event, you' re just as deserving of being
filed under "A" for antagonist.
pen1418hj
Jeremiah McAuliffe
>Sir, I understand the Christian faith quite well, both internally (within my
>spirit) and externally. The Bible itself quotes Isa (pbuh) as stating that a
>loving father will not give a serpent when a fish is asked, a stone when bread
>is asked. I have asked of Allah (swt) and have been given.
Allahu akbar!
I too asked, and knocked, on the basis of the promise in the Gospels.
I was given, and the door was indeed opened, and it had "Qur'an and
sunnah" written on it.
And God is no trickster........
Jeremiah McAuliffe/ ali...@city-net.com
Visit Dr. Jihad! Page O' Heavy Issues
http://speed.city-net.com/~alimhaq/miaha.html
PaulG
However, I have discovered that Allah (SWT) does have a lovely sense of humour!
<G>
Devon
you would not be lost currently in Islam! Christianity is a relationship,
not dead religion! It is a knowing, not just a believing! This is something
you will never know about whilst you are lost in Islam and having to guess
whether your good works will be enough to carry you into Paradise(they won't
of course)! As for Rita and her ilk it is not because she is a Roman
Catholic that she is lost and again either you are not reading my post very
carefully or lack understanding but it is because she wrongly divided the
Word of God and ignores essentials of the faith! Indeed their have been and
are wonderful Catholic Brethren but admittedly not enough and certainly in
Roman Cathlolicsm their is some very anti-biblical themes but also they do
agree on the essentials of the Historic faith so thus, every Catholic
Beleiver must be taken as a individual and not one great monothilic church!
Interesting that you are paraphrasing the Bible in some of your statements
here too and I highly doubt that the Quran says, "Allah has not given me a
serpent when I asked for true food" which you lifted blatantly from The
Bible which of course is a positive trend for you and I hope and pray you
continue to heed more of this treasure!
Thank you and God bless from Devon in Canada.
PaulG wrote in message <3644883B...@hotmail.com>...
>No, oving, they are true statements, sincerely asked. Of those openly
>professing Christianity, (e.g., yourself, Afra-Span, Devon, Jochen Katz),
the
>theology is straight fundamentalist. By this word, I mean no insult, and I
do
>not apply it in any sense but the original. The party line tends to be
>anti-Islam and anti-Catholic (or any "high church," for that matter). When
one
>such as Rita professes Christianity of a Roman Catholic flavour, she is
>attacked as "not really a Christian."
>When I have stated that I am a convert/revert to Islam, I have been
dismissed
>as one that "really didn't understand Christianity," else I would have
never
>become "lost in Islam."
>Sir, I understand the Christian faith quite well, both internally (within
my
>spirit) and externally. The Bible itself quotes Isa (pbuh) as stating that
a
>loving father will not give a serpent when a fish is asked, a stone when
bread
>is asked. I have asked of Allah (swt) and have been given. My peace is
not of
>this world, but is more satisfying, challenging, and wonderful than any I
have
>ever known. Of course, the group attacking Islam here and on other NG's
would
>say this is a deception from al-shaitaan, but, again, Allah has not given
me
>the serpent when I asked for true food.
>
>Regards,
>PaulG
>
Devon
you will find the Truth and it will set you free!
God Bless from Devon in Canada.
Pen1418hj wrote in message <19981107170520...@ng99.aol.com>...
>>I have asked of Allah (swt) and have been given. My peace is not of
>>this world, but is more satisfying, challenging, and wonderful than any I
>>have
>>ever known.
>
>
>pen1418hj
>
>
>
>
>
Devon
From Devon in Canada.
Jeremiah McAuliffe wrote in message <36470e90...@news.city-net.com>...
>PaulG <gou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Sir, I understand the Christian faith quite well, both internally (within
my
>>spirit) and externally. The Bible itself quotes Isa (pbuh) as stating
that a
>>loving father will not give a serpent when a fish is asked, a stone when
bread
Yousef
like??
Yousef
Devon wrote in message <3646a...@news.cadvision.com>...
Khurram Muhammad
> [snip]
> of course)! As for Rita and her ilk it is not because she is a Roman
> Catholic that she is lost and again either you are not reading my post very
> carefully or lack understanding but it is because she wrongly divided the
> Word of God and ignores essentials of the faith! Indeed their have been and
> are wonderful Catholic Brethren but admittedly not enough and certainly in
> [snip]
And those "essentials of faith" being making this world even worse than what it
would be, would that faith not be there, and giving an illusion to its people
that they are doing something good. Whose faith? may I ask? *Yours*? Who gives
a damn about *your* personal faith which has no resemblance with Jesus's (pbuh)
teachings.
What you advocate is Satan's work even by standards of today's Bible. So is it
these "essentials of faith" you would like to establish? I feel such pity for
the state of your soul.
And, secondly, are more importantly, you negate the notion that salvation
depends on works. So why did you think that Hitler will not end up in *your*
"heaven"?
paulj...@my-dejanews.com
Sorry you think I'm "blatantly lifting." I was hoping to speak in a language
you might understand. I do not dispute that Truth is to be found in the
Bible, nor have I ever. However, I refuse to commit Bibliolatry. If one
speaks the language of the one he/she is talking to is this plagiarism? Or
did I hit a nerve?
Again, you seem to think I am lost in Islam. Sorry you think so, and I
realize that nothing any Muslim could post here would convince you otherwise.
Were it not for the fact that it is Allah Himself that draws, not any
individual's efforts, this would be disappointing. Good works?! It is my
faith and trust in Allah (SWT) and His mercy that will, Insh'Allah, lead me
to Paradise, wherein I know there will be many surprises, both as to whom is
there, and, more importantly, whom is not.
This is a knowing, not just a believing, my friend.
Regards,
PaulG
In article <3646a...@news.cadvision.com>,
"Devon" <dsh...@cadvision.com> wrote:
> No Paul sadly you don't understand Christianity in the least for if you did
> you would not be lost currently in Islam! Christianity is a relationship,
> not dead religion! It is a knowing, not just a believing! This is something
> you will never know about whilst you are lost in Islam and having to guess
> whether your good works will be enough to carry you into Paradise(they won't
> of course)! As for Rita and her ilk it is not because she is a Roman
> Catholic that she is lost and again either you are not reading my post very
> carefully or lack understanding but it is because she wrongly divided the
> Word of God and ignores essentials of the faith! Indeed their have been and
> are wonderful Catholic Brethren but admittedly not enough and certainly in
> >Sir, I understand the Christian faith quite well, both internally (within
> my
> >spirit) and externally. The Bible itself quotes Isa (pbuh) as stating that
> a
> >loving father will not give a serpent when a fish is asked, a stone when
> bread
> >is asked. I have asked of Allah (swt) and have been given. My peace is
> not of
> >this world, but is more satisfying, challenging, and wonderful than any I
> have
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Jeremiah McAuliffe
>No, but the Devil is!
Sure. But I prayed "to the God of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus...." In
those words I asked that "the door be opened" that I "receive".
And this is the absolute FACT that you evangelicals cannot ignore.
For YEARS I prayed that way, and that was ALL I prayed for.
So, I was clearly led to the Qur'an in light of the excellent example
of Muhammad, God love him always.
So, if it is false, it means prayer is false, the gospels are false,
and God is false..... because it was through prayer and the Gospels
that I came to Islam.
So, its all either false-- and a prayer to the God of Abraham, Moses
and Jesus leads to that which is false or.......
......or, you have simply chosen kufr over belief.......
INFORMATION SERVICES
says...
>
>ooooooh the devil?? is that the Christian answer for anything you don't
>like??
>
>Yousef
>
>Devon wrote in message <3646a...@news.cadvision.com>...
>>Jeremiah McAuliffe wrote in message
><36470e90...@news.city-net.com>...
>>>PaulG <gou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>my
>>>>spirit) and externally. The Bible itself quotes Isa (pbuh) as stating
>>that a
>>>>loving father will not give a serpent when a fish is asked, a stone when
>>bread
>>>>is asked. I have asked of Allah (swt) and have been given.
>>>
>>>
>>>I too asked, and knocked, on the basis of the promise in the Gospels.
>>>
>>>I was given, and the door was indeed opened, and it had "Qur'an and
>>>sunnah" written on it.
>>>
>>>And God is no trickster........
>>>
Adam
Saabirah
Jeremiah McAuliffe wrote in message <3648343d...@news.city-net.com>...
>"Devon" <dsh...@cadvision.com> wrote:
>
Allahu Akbar!
Saabirah
Saabirah
You are so lost in yourself how do you ever hope to find God?
Devon wrote in message <3646a...@news.cadvision.com>...
>No Paul sadly you don't understand Christianity in the least
................
Saabirah
PaulG
Although Devon, oving, et. al. are some of the more literate (and
certainly much more decent) posters here, they do not want
answers, for, apparently, they believe they have them all. They
do not want dialogue, but an audience.
I heard a wise man say (and yes, folks, wisdom is wisdom whether
it comes from a Muslim, a Christian, a Jew, a Hindu, or whatever)
that for they who believe, no proof is necessary; for they who do
not, no evidence would suffice.
'nuff said.
Regards,
PaulG
Maher B.
did
>you would not be lost currently in Islam!
Don't judge Devon by your standards, can I judge you by our standards ? No
one is lost in Islam, I think it is you who is lost and way out of line !!!
>Christianity is a relationship, not dead religion! It is a knowing, not
just a believing!
Islam is knowing, believing and loving in the creator and His (SWT) creation
This is something
>you will never know about whilst you are lost in Islam and having to guess
>whether your good works will be enough to carry you into Paradise(they
won't
>of course)!
Here you go again judging, why do you think you are ? under what logic do I
take that all my sins are forgiven, just like that, what is the logic in
this. In Islam it is very clear. Islam is logic, why do the laws exist ?
why are we alive then if by your logic humans are all going to heaven, what
is the purpose of our creation, misery ? why ? why does Allah (SWT) create
us and then let us live in misery and hardship then whatever we do we go to
heaven ? where is the common sense here ?
As for Rita and her ilk it is not because she is a Roman
>Catholic that she is lost and again either you are not reading my post very
>carefully or lack understanding but it is because she wrongly divided the
Actually the only one that I see put himself in the divine position is you,
WHO ARE YOU TO SAY THAT THIS PERSON OR THAT PERSON IS LOST ?
>Word of God and ignores essentials of the faith! Indeed their have been and
>are wonderful Catholic Brethren but admittedly not enough and certainly in
>Roman Cathlolicsm their is some very anti-biblical themes but also they do
>agree on the essentials of the Historic faith so thus, every Catholic
>Beleiver must be taken as a individual and not one great monothilic church!
>
>Interesting that you are paraphrasing the Bible in some of your statements
>here too and I highly doubt that the Quran says
You don't know Islam, I remember you saying that you know the Quran, what
does this statement of yours "I highly doubt " ????
, "Allah has not given me a
>serpent when I asked for true food" which you lifted blatantly from The
>Bible which of course is a positive trend for you and I hope and pray you
>continue to heed more of this treasure!
--
Anyone that judges a whole group by the actions of one member of that
group is an ignorant idiot.
73:10 And remain steadfast in face of their utterances, and disregard
them
in a nice manner.
41:34 Not equal is the good response and the bad response. You shall
resort
to the nicest possible response. Thus, the one who used to be your enemy,
may
become your best friend.
La hawla wala quota el belah al'ali alatheem,
Any mistakes are mine and I stand corrected
Allah knows best and all
Obeid Allah
Maher Barakat
Spam protected email, remove "dot me" from reply address to reply
Devon wrote in message <3646a...@news.cadvision.com>...
>
>Thank you and God bless from Devon in Canada.
>PaulG wrote in message <3644883B...@hotmail.com>...
>>No, oving, they are true statements, sincerely asked. Of those openly
>>professing Christianity, (e.g., yourself, Afra-Span, Devon, Jochen Katz),
>the
>>theology is straight fundamentalist. By this word, I mean no insult, and
I
>do
>>not apply it in any sense but the original. The party line tends to be
>>anti-Islam and anti-Catholic (or any "high church," for that matter).
When
>one
>>such as Rita professes Christianity of a Roman Catholic flavour, she is
>>attacked as "not really a Christian."
>>When I have stated that I am a convert/revert to Islam, I have been
>dismissed
>>as one that "really didn't understand Christianity," else I would have
>never
>>become "lost in Islam."
>>Sir, I understand the Christian faith quite well, both internally (within
>my
>>spirit) and externally. The Bible itself quotes Isa (pbuh) as stating
that
>a
>>loving father will not give a serpent when a fish is asked, a stone when
>bread
Devon
me! Please explain what you mean by this statement.
Thank you from Devon in Canada.
Saabirah wrote in message <_LN12.116$b47...@news.cwix.com>...
>Devon,
>
>You are so lost in yourself how do you ever hope to find God?
>
>
>
>Saabirah
>
>
Devon
but Christ has them all! If it wasn't for the great mercy of Christ I would
be lost like others on this NG and in that light I am not any better then
anyone, but better off!
Of course wisdom can come from many sources! Who is to deny the genuis of
Einstein, the brilliance of El Cid, the knowledge of Mainmonodes etc etc!
Does it not rain on the Just and the Unjust? Of course it does. And funny
enough, the saying you paraphrase is from originally a Christian source!
God Bless from Devon in Canada.
PaulG wrote in message <3647AB0E...@hotmail.com>...
>Saabirah, dear,
>
>Although Devon, oving, et. al. are some of the more literate (and
>certainly much more decent) posters here, they do not want
>answers, for, apparently, they believe they have them all. They
>do not want dialogue, but an audience.
>
>I heard a wise man say (and yes, folks, wisdom is wisdom whether
>it comes from a Muslim, a Christian, a Jew, a Hindu, or whatever)
>that for they who believe, no proof is necessary; for they who do
>not, no evidence would suffice.
>
>'nuff said.
>
>Regards,
>
>PaulG
>
>Saabirah wrote:
>
Devon
ressurection) and His mutual exclusive claims you are lost! I didn't say
that Maher and quit being so hypocritical! Muslims on this NG continually
are saying that I am lost if I do not accept Muhammeds message of Allah.
Jesus Christ condemns you as lost and I am only repeating his warning to you
and others!
I never claimed to be a scholar of Islam but I have learned much from you
chaps on this NG and my study at U of C 8 years ago when I read the Quran
but admittedly it has been a long time and I am due to reread the Quran in
due time! However I know this statement about Allah not giving you a serpent
is lifted blatantly from the Bible, which by God's grace, I do know quite
well.
Thank you and God Bless from Devon in Canada.
Maher B. wrote in message ...
PaulG
It was intended as a compliment, such as it was. Whatever our differences, you
are always civil, and do not resort to insults, nor profanity.
Yes, it was a Christian source for my quote. Did not Sha'ul of Tarsus use the
poetry of the Cretans when addressing them? You seem amused that a Muslim can
quote the Bible. I would rather see a Muslim accurately quote the Bible to a
Christian in conversation, than what I usually see here... Christians misquoting
al-Qur'an to Muslims in accusation.
There is no sin for a Muslim to use wisdom where it is accurately transmitted;
rather, a Muslim is required to honor all true prophets. We do not see
al-Qur'an as the only source of Wisdom, nor do we believe al-Mustafa (pbuh) was
the only prophet of Allah; they are both the seal of Allah's (SWT) revelation,
but certainly not the only ones. Al-Qur'an al-Kareem itself states that Allah
sent a Messenger to every nation. Prophet Muhammad was sent to the entire
world.
Still sorry you think I'm lost. (Sorrier still that another poster here thinks
I'm demon-possessed and believes that gives him/her [I don't recognize the
gender of the name] the license to insult).
I reiterated, however, that obviously nothing any Muslim could say would
convince you of the Truth of Islam, as you and the others are intent on hearing
what you want to hear, and seeing what you wish to see.
You have accused me of never understanding Christ, else I would have never
become "lost" in Islam. Again, there is nothing I could say that would convince
you otherwise, since your mind is already made up about Islam. I can truly say
with as much conviction that you, Devon, have never truly understood Islam, else
you never would reject it.
Regards,
PaulG
Again, I am sorry you think I am lost
Devon wrote:
> PaulG, I almost sense a compliment here! Seriously though, I have no answers
> but Christ has them all! If it wasn't for the great mercy of Christ I would
> be lost like others on this NG and in that light I am not any better then
> anyone, but better off!
> Of course wisdom can come from many sources! Who is to deny the genuis of
> Einstein, the brilliance of El Cid, the knowledge of Mainmonodes etc etc!
> Does it not rain on the Just and the Unjust? Of course it does. And funny
> enough, the saying you paraphrase is from originally a Christian source!
> God Bless from Devon in Canada.
> PaulG wrote in message <3647AB0E...@hotmail.com>...
> >Saabirah, dear,
> >
> >Although Devon, oving, et. al. are some of the more literate (and
> >certainly much more decent) posters here, they do not want
> >answers, for, apparently, they believe they have them all. They
> >do not want dialogue, but an audience.
> >
> >I heard a wise man say (and yes, folks, wisdom is wisdom whether
> >it comes from a Muslim, a Christian, a Jew, a Hindu, or whatever)
> >that for they who believe, no proof is necessary; for they who do
> >not, no evidence would suffice.
> >
> >'nuff said.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >PaulG
> >
> >Saabirah wrote:
> >
> >> Devon,
> >>
> >> You are so lost in yourself how do you ever hope to find God?
> >>
> >> Devon wrote in message <3646a...@news.cadvision.com>...
> >> >No Paul sadly you don't understand Christianity in the least
> >> ................
> >>
> >> Saabirah
> >
> >
Saabirah
Devon wrote:
>No Dear Sabr, I am not lost in myself but I abide in Christ and He abides
in
>me! Please explain what you mean by this statement.
>Saabirah wrote in message
>>
>>You are so lost in yourself how do you ever hope to find God?
What I was trying to say is, if you would just shut up for a moment and
*listen* to God, He Who whispers to the hearts of men (and women), perhaps
then you might be able to *hear*.....perhaps you might even find Him within,
in the silence. Stop *selling God* -- you might just come out of it with a
*wealth* that you never knew existed......
Something like that anyway...
Saabirah
oving
And I got some already.
Your words are not answers, but suggestions.
Peace,
Oving.
--
'Who hath ascended up into the heavens, and descended?
Who hath gathered the wind in his fists?
Who hat bound the waters in a mantle?
Who hath established all the ends of the earth?
What is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou knowest?
'
(Proverbs 30:4)
'For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given;
and the government shall be upon his shoulder;
and his name is called
Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity,
Prince of Peace.
'
(Isaiah 9:6)
'I was anointed from eternity,
from the beginning, before the earth was.
'
(Proverbs 8:23)
PaulG heeft geschreven in bericht <3647AB0E...@hotmail.com>...
>Saabirah, dear,
>
>Although Devon, oving, et. al. are some of the more literate (and
>certainly much more decent) posters here, they do not want
>answers, for, apparently, they believe they have them all. They
>do not want dialogue, but an audience.
>
>I heard a wise man say (and yes, folks, wisdom is wisdom whether
>it comes from a Muslim, a Christian, a Jew, a Hindu, or whatever)
>that for they who believe, no proof is necessary; for they who do
>not, no evidence would suffice.
>
>'nuff said.
>
>Regards,
>
>PaulG
>
>Saabirah wrote:
>
>> Devon,
>>
>> You are so lost in yourself how do you ever hope to find God?
>>
Devon
change on this NG. I do not doubt that you were sincere and believed
yourself to be a christian but if you had Known Christ as Lord and Savior,
in otherwords a relationship that is alive and growing throughout your life,
you would never have gone anywhere else! I do not pick on Islam or any other
faith but I am simply Pro-Christ.
God Bless you from Devon who is indeed sorry for all who do not know this
Jesus I speak of.
PaulG wrote in message <3648FD7D...@hotmail.com>...
>> PaulG wrote in message <3647AB0E...@hotmail.com>...
PaulG
With all due respect, we seem to be splitting verbal hairs here, although you most assuredly would not think so. You have no way of knowing whether I had truly "known Christ" or not. My Lord is Allah, and my relationship with Him is alive and growing. Unfortunately, this is not something I would expect you to understand, as it does not fit your preconceptions. More's the pity.
Obviously, we could bat this shuttlecock back and forth over the net until world's end without resolution, and it is, Alhamdul'iLah, not my task to convince you of a thing.
Such as it is, I at least offer my hand in friendship and peace, if not agreement. I appreciate your decency... yours and all people of reason and peace in this NG. Unfortunately, there are some here that resort to profanity, threats, insults, and other tactics that belie whichever faith they are professing.... some profess Christianity, some Islam, some Hindu, some profess none. Whatever the case or circumstances, no one here is going to give much credence his/her cause by the methods displayed. As stated in another thread, there is altogether too much hatred displayed to give credence to any more.
For myself, a wise Muslim brother taught me many years before my Islam that one does not judge a faith by its adherents, and Islam (contrary to some posters opinions and polemics, present addressee perhaps excluded.... for now <laughing>) is a religion of peace and tolerance.
".... anyone who says different is selling something."
----- from The Princess Bride
Best Regards.
PaulG
Jeremiah McAuliffe
> I do not pick on Islam or any other
>faith
HA HA HA HA HA!
Good one Devon!
RKnight18
>From: "Devon" <dsh...@cadvision.com>
>Date: Mon, Nov 9, 1998 03:07 EST
>Message-id: <3646a...@news.cadvision.com>
>
>No Paul sadly you don't understand Christianity in the least for if you did
>not dead religion! It is a knowing, not just a believing! This is something
>you will never know about whilst you are lost in Islam and having to guess
>whether your good works will be enough to carry you into Paradise(they won't
>Catholic that she is lost
Devon I am really losing patience with this lost crapola label you keep
sticking on me.
I have never felt closer to God then I do now and it has to do with not
listening to Bible Thumpers who sin all week and go to church on Sunday and say
all is forgiven.
and again either you are not reading my post very
>carefully or lack understanding but it is because she wrongly divided the
>Word of God and ignores essentials of the faith!
Now you dare to claim to know my thoughts on the Word of God and what I ignore
or cling to? Devon really you must get a life dear man.
Indeed their have been and
>are wonderful Catholic Brethren but admittedly not enough and certainly in
>Roman Cathlolicsm their is some very anti-biblical themes but also they do
>agree on the essentials of the Historic faith so thus, every Catholic
>Beleiver must be taken as a individual and not one great monothilic church!
How wonderful that Devon the Judge allows a few Catholics to be considered
Christian.
>Interesting that you are paraphrasing the Bible in some of your statements
>here too and I highly doubt that the Quran says, "Allah has not given me a
>serpent when I asked for true food" which you lifted blatantly from The
>Bible which of course is a positive trend for you and I hope and pray you
>continue to heed more of this treasure!
>
>Thank you and God bless from Devon in Canada.
Devon I am ready to face my Maker and my house is in order. What you can not
accept is that all do not agree with your line of Christian thinking. Too bad
for you Devon because you are missing out on knowing some wonderful people.
Good, Pious, Godly people . Your loss.
Peace Love Justice
Rita
paulj...@my-dejanews.com
You have been answered by others much wiser than I.
My words were intended to be suggestions, not answers, and they were directed
to Saabirah. Of course you are entitled to reply to any message you wish, as
such you did. However, I leave it to my spiritual elders to provide you with
answers. I have hopefully offered what small wisdom I have been granted by
Allah, and that is all. I stand by my statement that dialogue is not what has
been sought, because the same topics keep getting bandied about, and the same
arguments keep getting re-posted.
BTW, when you stated in an earlier post that you were not, nor did you wish to
be, a fundamentalist, do you understand the term? A fundamentalist is not a
Muslim, Hindu, or any other person of faith, regardless of the media's misuse
of the term.
The word references the book of the last century called "The Fundamentals"
which was written in reaction to the "Higher Criticism", liberal theology, and
Darwinist attitudes.
A Christian Fundamentalist, according to David W. Cloud in *Fundamentalism,
Modernism, and New-Evangelicalism* is one who believes:
(This is a direct quote)
1. Maintains an immovable allegiance to the inerrant, infallible, and verbally
inspired Bible.
2. Believes that whatever the Bible says is so.
3. Judges all things by the Bible and is judged only by the Bible.
4. Affirms the foundational truths of the historic Christian Faith: The
doctrine of the Trinity; the incarnation, virgin
birth, substitutionary atonement, bodily resurrection and glorious
ascension, and Second Coming of the Lord
Jesus Christ; the new birth through regeneration by the Holy Spirit; the
resurrection of the saints to life eternal; the
resurrection of the ungodly to final judgment and eternal death; the
fellowship of the saints, who are the body of
Christ.
5. Practices fidelity to that Faith and endeavors to preach it to every
creature.
6. Exposes and separates from all ecclesiastical denial of that Faith,
compromise with error, and apostasy from
the Truth.
7. Earnestly contends for the Faith once delivered.
(end quote)
If you believe this, then my words were correct.
If not, sorry I misunderstood.
Regards,
PaulG
In article <72cpg4$n9t$2...@reader3.wxs.nl>,
"oving" <ov...@wxs.nl> wrote:
> I certainly want answers.
> And I got some already.
>
> Your words are not answers, but suggestions.
>
> Peace,
> Oving.
>
> --
> 'Who hath ascended up into the heavens, and descended?
> Who hath gathered the wind in his fists?
> Who hat bound the waters in a mantle?
> Who hath established all the ends of the earth?
> What is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou knowest?
> '
> (Proverbs 30:4)
>
> 'For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given;
> and the government shall be upon his shoulder;
> and his name is called
>
> Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity,
> Prince of Peace.
> '
> (Isaiah 9:6)
>
> 'I was anointed from eternity,
> from the beginning, before the earth was.
> '
> (Proverbs 8:23)
>
> PaulG heeft geschreven in bericht <3647AB0E...@hotmail.com>...
> >Saabirah, dear,
> >
> >Although Devon, oving, et. al. are some of the more literate (and
> >certainly much more decent) posters here, they do not want
> >answers, for, apparently, they believe they have them all. They
> >do not want dialogue, but an audience.
> >
> >I heard a wise man say (and yes, folks, wisdom is wisdom whether
> >it comes from a Muslim, a Christian, a Jew, a Hindu, or whatever)
> >that for they who believe, no proof is necessary; for they who do
> >not, no evidence would suffice.
> >
> >'nuff said.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >PaulG
> >
> >Saabirah wrote:
> >
> >> Devon,
> >>
> >> You are so lost in yourself how do you ever hope to find God?
> >>
> >> Devon wrote in message <3646a...@news.cadvision.com>...
> >> >No Paul sadly you don't understand Christianity in the least
> >> ................
> >>
> >> Saabirah
Devon
the actions of 'Muslims'(notice the quotation marks) and I disagree with
Muhammed as a prophet on theological grounds! My enemy is not Islam or
Hinduism or any other ism but only Satan who blinds humanity to the Truth of
Christ! Good day from Devon in Canada.
Jeremiah McAuliffe wrote in message <364aeda...@news.city-net.com>...
Devon
Biblical truths!
Funny how you say that 'we are to sin all week and then go to church on
sunday and make it all right' statement! This indeed is the tragdedy of the
Roman Catholic Church where tragically Catholics will live their lives like
Hell all week and think because they do confession that they will be off the
hook so to speak! Pure rubbish and Thank God some RC's see through this and
read their Bible! I hope Rita you are not of this ilk!?? Indeed I know in my
city their is a wonderful group of Catholic Charasmatics and Evangelicals
who know the Lord powerfully;I pray you are of this ilk indeed!
God Bless from Devon in Canada.
RKnight18 wrote in message <19981112110218...@ng126.aol.com>...
RKnight18
>From: "Devon" <dsh...@cadvision.com>
>Message-id: <364b6...@news.cadvision.com>
>
>Well I hope so Rita but you say some things on this NG that deviate from
>Biblical truths!
When have I ever said anything that deviates from Biblical truths ? Devon I
think the cold air is getting to you up in Canada
>Funny how you say that 'we are to sin all week and then go to church on
>sunday and make it all right' statement! This indeed is the tragdedy of the
>Roman Catholic Church where tragically Catholics will live their lives like
>Hell all week and think because they do confession that they will be off the
>hook so to speak
Actually I was refering to the Protestants and the Baptists here Devon.
! Pure rubbish and Thank God some RC's see through this and
>read their Bible!
I have never in nearly 54 years of life every known a RC as you call them that
did not read their Bible.
I hope Rita you are not of this ilk!?? Indeed I know in my
>city their is a wonderful group of Catholic Charasmatics and Evangelicals
>who know the Lord powerfully;I pray you are of this ilk indeed!
I am not of any ILK Devon. Your ilk or anyone's ilk. I am a Christian period.
>God Bless from Devon in Canada.
He does Bless me Devon more and more everyday but hey thanks
Rita
Devon
or Islam but where the Truth of Christ disagrees with any isms, their will
be disagreement with the said ism and thus some hurt feelings! Yes Islam
along with a myriad of other false beliefs leads to a dead end but what I
meant to say is that I no more disavow Islam as I do lets say Buddhism!
Thank you from Devon in Canada.
Maher B. wrote in message ...
>
>Let me remind you of a post on this thread posted by you on Nov. 9th., I am
>posting part of it :
>
>Quote : "No Paul sadly you don't understand Christianity in the least for
>if you did
>you would not be lost currently in Islam! Christianity is a relationship,
>
>Well what do you call your above statement ? ... Lost & dead ? isn't this
an
>attack on Islam or it is just another insight (sarcasm) of yours ?
>
>Spare us all the innocent tone unfortunately you have proven otherwise ...
>
>Maher Barakat
>
>Devon wrote in message <364b6...@news.cadvision.com>...
Devon
because of religious extremist, particularly 'muslims' the word
fundamentalist does have a bad conatation.
Thank you from Devon in Canada.
<72frq4$qib$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
Devon
Truth of Christ here with others but succumbing to the spirit of the age
were in and that is that 'christianity' for you is one truth but their are
other roads for others ie Sabr and Islam, Mo and Hinduism etc etc! Christ
came for all these precious souls and I must say your lack of concern for
their spiritual welfare is a great injustice to Christ and shows something
that may definitely lacking in your life-regeneration and I pray that that
is not the case!
BTW, I do not know any regenerate Baptists or other Christians who live
their lives like hell and go to Church on Sunday and think that is all
right! The term for this is Antinomianism and it shows the said person to be
bankrupt of regeneration or true faith! Indeed we all fall but as we grow
these areas are conformed to the Image of Christ! Tragically within
Catholism it has been the practice of the majority to simply go live their
lives for themselves all week and come to the confessional and think that
everything is going to be all right! Well it isn't and I would sit down Rita
and read Matt 7:22-23! This applies to these misfortunate souls as well as
nominal Protestants and Eastern Orthodox etc etc and I hope and pray that it
does not apply to you.
I am willing to take your anger because I care for your spiritual welfare
and that is why I say these things here to you! Out of the Love of Christ
which is being perfected in me and I have a long long road still to travel.
God Bless as always from Devon in Canada.
RKnight18 wrote in message <19981112183235...@ng118.aol.com>...
Maher B.
oving
to
>be, a fundamentalist, do you understand the term? A fundamentalist is not
a
>Muslim, Hindu, or any other person of faith, regardless of the media's
misuse
>of the term.
It is not about understanding the term, it is how it is interpretated.
As you name the media, well this NG is one of them.
As for the list, I don't fit to a description, list or profile of a fallible
man ;-)
The list is either not complete or not correct.
Take no confidence in man, but God.
Peace,
Oving.
INFORMATION SERVICES
are there out there? It sounds a good religion to me, how do i join:)
Adam
Saabirah
Devon wrote in message <364bd...@news.cadvision.com>...
>Your greatest deviation Rita in terms of Biblical Truth is not sharing the
>Truth of Christ here with others
And YOU know the Truth, right Devon? The "Truth according to Devon"......?
but succumbing to the spirit of the age
>were in and that is that 'christianity' for you is one truth but their are
>other roads for others ie Sabr and Islam, Mo and Hinduism etc etc!
All I can say, is *I* think that Rita is one damn good woman! -- She can see
Truth when it is staring her in the face.....and go beyond dogmatism. I'd
say that Rita has a pretty good grasp of the message of Jesus (pbuh)!
Christ
>came for all these precious souls
You're right there Devon! Jesus (pbuh) was sent as a messanger for ALL.
and I must say your lack of concern for
>their spiritual welfare is a great injustice to Christ and shows something
>that may definitely lacking in your life-regeneration and I pray that that
>is not the case!
Save it, Devon.
>
>BTW, I do not know any regenerate Baptists or other Christians who live
>their lives like hell and go to Church on Sunday
Then, you must NOT be living in Canada. Goodness Devon! You're living on
another planet altogether!
>it shows the said person to be
>bankrupt of regeneration or true faith! Indeed we all fall but as we grow
>these areas are conformed to the Image of Christ!
Somehow I can't believe that Truth is ever conforming.....can't say I'm
right, BUT that's MY Truth.
>I am willing to take your anger because I care for your spiritual welfare
>and that is why I say these things here to you! Out of the Love of Christ
That's Love?!
>I have a long long road still to travel.
Damn right there Devon ole' boy! And, so don't we all......
Saabirah
Saabirah
INFORMATION SERVICES wrote in message
<72h6fd$btt$7...@orac.sunderland.ac.uk>...
>What is this religon of "the ilk" I have never heard of this. How many
"ilks"
>are there out there? It sounds a good religion to me, how do i join:)
I'd have to say that this "religion of the ilk" is the Truth of those who
truly seek Allah/God. And, I'd dare say, you already belong.....
littlest Saabirah
Saabirah
Jeremiah McAuliffe wrote in message <364aeda...@news.city-net.com>...
>"Devon" <dsh...@cadvision.com> wrote:
>
>> I do not pick on Islam or any other
>>faith
>
>HA HA HA HA HA!
>
>Good one Devon!
Feels good to laugh for a change.....I think that I have to say "Thanks for
that one Devon!"
Saabirah
PaulG
with oving in saying it is interpretation... a word such as Islam or
Fundamentalism either has meaning, or it doesn't. Broad categories such as
the al-Qur'an, the Bible, Hadith, etc.do depend on interpretation.
I recall that Jeremiah referred to himself as simply a Muslim. I agree with
this and apply it to myself. There is no such thing as "fundamentalism" as
it is in Islam. One either is a Muslim or one is not. However, it is in
Christianity that the word Fundamentalism arose, and it applies or it
doesn't.
I believe it is necessary to state here that I do not subscribe to the
reference I quoted, but that I once did fully. Allah ta'ala has moved me in
my spirit to worship Him alone devoid of any partners. Understand, Devon,
that I fully subscribed to the reference quoted. I did, by your definition,
"know Christ," although I have grown to know that I was sadly misguided.
Allahu Akbar!
Regards,
PaulG
Devon wrote in message <364bc...@news.cadvision.com>...
>Well when 'fundamentalism' is defined that way, indeed count me as one but
>because of religious extremist, particularly 'muslims' the word
>fundamentalist does have a bad conatation.
>Thank you from Devon in Canada.
>paulj...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
><72frq4$qib$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>>Oving my friend,
>>
>>You have been answered by others much wiser than I.
>>My words were intended to be suggestions, not answers, and they were
>directed
>>to Saabirah. Of course you are entitled to reply to any message you wish,
>as
>>such you did. However, I leave it to my spiritual elders to provide you
>with
>>answers. I have hopefully offered what small wisdom I have been granted
by
>>Allah, and that is all. I stand by my statement that dialogue is not what
>has
>>been sought, because the same topics keep getting bandied about, and the
>same
>>arguments keep getting re-posted.
>>
>>BTW, when you stated in an earlier post that you were not, nor did you
wish
>to
>>be, a fundamentalist, do you understand the term? A fundamentalist is not
>a
>>Muslim, Hindu, or any other person of faith, regardless of the media's
>misuse
>>of the term.
>>
>>> >> >No Paul sadly you don't understand Christianity in the least
RKnight18
>From: "Devon" <dsh...@cadvision.com>
>Message-id: <364bd...@news.cadvision.com>
>
>Your greatest deviation Rita in terms of Biblical Truth is not sharing the
>Truth of Christ here with others
I think I try and go one step further, I try
to live my life as Christ wanted us to live our lives.
but succumbing to the spirit of the age
>were in and that is that 'christianity' for you is one truth but their are
>other roads for others ie Sabr and Islam, Mo and Hinduism etc etc!
You can not force your beliefs on people Devon. Anymore then Islam could be
forced on me. Everyone must find God in their own way. Without help from pushy
missionaries or forced conversions.
Christ
>came for all these precious souls and I must say your lack of concern for
>their spiritual welfare is a great injustice to Christ and shows something
>that may definitely lacking in your life-regeneration and I pray that that
>is not the case!
Nothing is lacking in my love of Christ, nothing
>BTW, I do not know any regenerate Baptists or other Christians who live
>their lives like hell and go to Church on Sunday and think that is all
>right!
Then you lead a sheltered live Devon. I have lived in the Southern USA and I
watched it all the time. The Protestants are even worse then the Baptists. I
was shocked to see the same person in a local club drunk as hell on Saturday
night helping to seat people in the church the next morning!
The term for this is Antinomianism and it shows the said person to be
>bankrupt of regeneration or true faith! Indeed we all fall but as we grow
>these areas are conformed to the Image of Christ! Tragically within
>Catholism it has been the practice of the majority to simply go live their
>lives for themselves all week and come to the confessional and think that
>everything is going to be all right!
How can you speak for the majority of Catholics? Please answer this Devon how
do you know WHAT the majority of Catholics think or do..
Well it isn't and I would sit down Rita
>and read Matt 7:22-23! This applies to these misfortunate souls as well as
>nominal Protestants and Eastern Orthodox etc etc and I hope and pray that it
>does not apply to you.
Again Devon I have my house in order. If I meet my Maker today, I am ready.
>I am willing to take your anger because I care for your spiritual welfare
>and that is why I say these things here to you
You need not worry about my anger Devon.
The only thing I have to give you is my pity and my prayers. As far as caring
for my spirtual welfare Please do not be concerned.
I am in the best of hands.
! Out of the Love of Christ
>which is being perfected in me
Hey Devon I feel exactly the same way.
and I have a long long road still to travel.
>God Bless as always from Devon in Canada.
>
Rita
Jeremiah McAuliffe
>! Out of the Love of Christ
>>which is being perfected in me
>
>Hey Devon I feel exactly the same way.
>
> and I have a long long road still to travel.
Well, whattaya know!
We're all together on this!
Maher B.
I took Devon for true on this post :) I did not notice he was joking <G>
Maher Barakat
Saabirah wrote in message ...
>Salaam Jeremiah,
>
>Jeremiah McAuliffe wrote in message <364aeda...@news.city-net.com>...
>>"Devon" <dsh...@cadvision.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I do not pick on Islam or any other
>>>faith
>>
>>HA HA HA HA HA!
>>
>>Good one Devon!
>
>Feels good to laugh for a change.....I think that I have to say "Thanks for
>that one Devon!"
>
>Saabirah
>>
>>
>>
>>
Saabirah
Maher B. wrote in message ...
>Salaam Saabirah and Jeremiah,
>
>I took Devon for true on this post :) I did not notice he was joking <G>
When Devon wrote:
>>>> I do not pick on Islam or any other
>>>>faith
Jeremiah responded with:
>>>HA HA HA HA HA!
>>>
>>>Good one Devon!
I, believing that Br. Jeremiah was laughing at Devon's obviously "stupid"
remark that he doesn't pick on any other Faith, just used it as a means to
"laugh off" Devon's biases.
I wrote:
>>Feels good to laugh for a change.....I think that I have to say "Thanks
for
>>that one Devon!"
It is rare that Devon gives me a chuckle. I just supponse that I needed
something to laugh about this AM. Really, I don't believe that Devon's
remarks were "funny".... Sorry for the mistake, Maher.
Saabirah
Maher B.
I know I was being sarcastic :) nothing more, I understand you and
Jeremiah's post ....
Maher
Saabirah wrote in message ...
john smith
Rita wrote:
> The Protestants are even worse then the Baptists. I
> was shocked to see the same person in a local club drunk as hell on Saturday
> night helping to seat people in the church the next morning!
>
Yes keep away from those protestants Rita, they will lead you astray:) Anyway,
whats wrong with getting drunk on a Saturday night. I dont think God would mind
that, of course your Muslim friends might:) Some people are better when they are
drunk!
Adam
john smith
Saabirah wrote:
To paraphrase an American (I must be getting low:) I would not join any
religion that would have me as a member!
Adam
john smith
>
> I, believing that Br. Jeremiah was laughing at Devon's obviously "stupid"
> remark that he doesn't pick on any other Faith, just used it as a means to
> "laugh off" Devon's biases.
>
> I wrote:
> >>Feels good to laugh for a change.....I think that I have to say "Thanks
> for
> >>that one Devon!"
>
> It is rare that Devon gives me a chuckle. I just supponse that I needed
> something to laugh about this AM. Really, I don't believe that Devon's
> remarks were "funny".... Sorry for the mistake, Maher.
>
> Saabirah
Why not believe someone when they something, radical idea I know:)
Adam
john smith
Saabirah wrote:
> You're right there Devon! Jesus (pbuh) was sent as a messanger for ALL.
>
Surely not for the Scots:)
Adam
john smith
Saabirah wrote:
> Devon,
>
> You are so lost in yourself how do you ever hope to find God?
>
> Saabirah
Saabirah you have no right to call anyone lost, just because they do not
agree with your definition of "found". Devon could argue quite logically
that you are the one who is lost.
Adam
PaulG
Regards,
PaulG
Yousef
Nah all prophets were sent for the whole world..excluding you of course :)
Yousef
Yousef
>Yes keep away from those protestants Rita, they will lead you astray:)
Anyway,
>whats wrong with getting drunk on a Saturday night. I dont think God would
mind
>that, of course your Muslim friends might:) Some people are better when
they are
>drunk!
Ah yeah right so God wants some self righteous leiusure suit wearing
protestant priets screaming in your face "HALELUJAH JESUS IS LORD" while
turning a house of God into a disco(????)
What kind of God is that but of course if you believe Mary was "The
Madonna".......(sorry couldn't resist that one:)
Yousef
Saabirah
john smith wrote in message <364DC975...@yahoo.com>...
>
>
>Saabirah wrote:
>
>> You're right there Devon! Jesus (pbuh) was sent as a messanger for ALL.
>>
>
Surely he(pbuh) WAS. Wake up and "smell the coffee", even if it's lousey
coffee..
Saabirah
Saabirah
john smith wrote in message <364DC7BB...@yahoo.com>...
>>
>
>
>Yes keep away from those protestants Rita, they will lead you astray:)
Anyway,
>whats wrong with getting drunk on a Saturday night. I dont think God would
mind
>that, of course your Muslim friends might:) Some people are better when
they are
>drunk!
No, Adam. I don't think that the protestants, the jews we Muslims are going
to lead Rita "astray". In my opinion, Rita's on a pretty beautiful and
truly "authenticate" path And "getting drunk on Saturday night" is more sad
than it is wrong.
In fact, the mental, and social state of a person who resorts to alchohol
is, in my opinion, why Allah(SWT) has forbidden it. Perhaps, it's a better,
Wiser way of saying, "Be Faithful to Truth(SWT). Guard yourself from the
despair of emotional and social evils. Let your Solace be in Me(SWT)."
And, in making alchohol forbidden, perhaps, just perhaps, we are given the
Ultimate, Divine chance and challenge to be obedient to One(SWT) Who is
Abundantly-Greater than ourselves.....Maybe you may truly believe that some
people are "better" when they are drunk., In such a case, I would
definitely have to question the the meaning of the word "better". Is it
life really better or just easier to deal with when we think that we are
less challenged to see our capabilities and gifts?
littlest Saabirah
Saabirah
john smith wrote in message <364DC83B...@yahoo.com>...
>> >What is this religon of "the ilk" I have never heard of this. How many
>> "ilks"are there out there? It sounds a good religion to me, how do i
join:)
>>
you already belong.....
>>
>To paraphrase an American (I must be getting low:) I would not join any
>religion that would have me as a member!
It's not a matter of "joining", it's a matter of believing.
Saabirah
Saabirah
Thank you for giving me the chance to clarify my comment. And, Devon, if
you misunderstood what I said, please accept my most profound apologies and
share with you my sincere hopes and prayers that what you believed that I
may have said was in any way a representation of truth!
john smith wrote in message <364DCA5D...@yahoo.com>...
>
>Saabirah wrote:
>> Devon,
>>
>> You are so lost in yourself how do you ever hope to find God?
You wrote:
>Saabirah you have no right to call anyone lost, just because they do not
>agree with your definition of "found". Devon could argue quite logically
>that you are the one who is lost.
Agreed. (Will wonders ever cease? I certainly hope not, Insha'Llah). But,
you must see that I never said "Eternally-Lost". I was merely stating that
we can become so totally lost in our own narrow-sighted perceptions of the
Divine that we totally "miss the boat" in attempting to see, share and
respond lovingly to the Divine Attributes of Goodness, Compassion, Mercy and
Forgiveness of Allah/God/Elohim/Yahweh/Ultimate Truth.
Do you truly believe that I would ever suggest my knowledge of the Divine
and Ulitmate Judgement when I am constantly accusing Devon of doing just
that? There is only One Who Judges and that One Judges Justly; not as you
nor I nor ANYONE else might ever be tempted to judge, pretend to believe
that we are even capable of making any Eternal Judgements or ever try to
impose our inept, faulty judgements on anyone else.
And may I add that neither Devon, nor you nor any other human being might
argue "logically" that I am Eternally Lost. Again, there is only the One
Who Judges Justly Who may make that call. AlHumd'Llah! What we might say are
words....merely words. And even worse they just may be our Eternal Loss.
littlest Saabirah -- and Thank God for that!
PaulG
As a former (or recovering) alcoholic/addict, I doubt I could have phrased it
better.
Regards, my salaam and dua',
PaulG
RKnight18 wrote:
> ><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: An Islamic NG -and- talk about -Jews-?
> >From: john smith <ad...@yahoo.com>
> >Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998 13:11 EST
> >Message-id: <364DC7BB...@yahoo.com>
> >
> >>
> >
> >Rita wrote:
> >
> >> The Protestants are even worse then the Baptists. I
> >> was shocked to see the same person in a local club drunk as hell on
> >Saturday
> >> night helping to seat people in the church the next morning!
> >>
> >
> >Yes keep away from those protestants Rita, they will lead you astray:)
>
> I am not easily led astray Adam. As a matter of fact my husband says no one is
> as stubborn as I am.
> >Anyway,
> >whats wrong with getting drunk on a Saturday night. I dont think God would
> >mind
> >that, of course your Muslim friends might:)
>
> Adam do you really think you know what God minds or doesnt? Gee wish I could
> achieve your level of knowing what God thinks. As for the evil of drink,the
> Muslims are not the only ones who are wise to it.
>
> Some people are better when they
> >are
> >drunk!
> >
> >Adam
>
> Oh yeah Adam tell that to the Mother of a child killed by a drunk driver. Or a
> women abused and beaten by a drunk husband.
>
> Or wait better yet tell the man/women who lay near death from liver failure due
> to alcohol. They sure are better drunk.
>
> Peace Love Justice
>
> Rita
> >
PaulG
(Black and flabby, but a heart <G>)
Just kidding.
PaulG
Jeremiah McAuliffe wrote:
> john smith <ad...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >To paraphrase an American (I must be getting low:) I would not join any
> >religion that would have me as a member!
>
> Oh Adam! We'd even take you. Seriously.
>
> We want you to join us.
RKnight18
>Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998 17:30 EST
>Message-id: <_vn32.778$mS2.301@pm01nn>
>
>
>john smith wrote in message <364DC7BB...@yahoo.com>...
>>>
>>
>>
>>Yes keep away from those protestants Rita, they will lead you astray:)
>>whats wrong with getting drunk on a Saturday night. I dont think God would
>mind
>they are
>>drunk!
>
>No, Adam. I don't think that the protestants, the jews we Muslims are going
>to lead Rita "astray". In my opinion, Rita's on a pretty beautiful and
>truly "authenticate" path And "getting drunk on Saturday night" is more sad
>than it is wrong.
Thank you sister for your kind words and as usual Adam did not get the point.
My previous post mentioned the Protestant that goes out on Saturday night, gets
drunk,raises hell and then goes to church on Sunday like some other
sanctimonious (sp) people on this NG.
>In fact, the mental, and social state of a person who resorts to alchohol
>is, in my opinion, why Allah(SWT) has forbidden it. Perhaps, it's a better,
>Wiser way of saying, "Be Faithful to Truth(SWT). Guard yourself from the
>despair of emotional and social evils. Let your Solace be in Me(SWT)."
>And, in making alchohol forbidden, perhaps, just perhaps, we are given the
>Ultimate, Divine chance and challenge to be obedient to One(SWT) Who is
>Abundantly-Greater than ourselves.....Maybe you may truly believe that some
>people are "better" when they are drunk., In such a case, I would
>definitely have to question the the meaning of the word "better". Is it
>life really better or just easier to deal with when we think that we are
>less challenged to see our capabilities and gifts?
Well said Saabirah.
>littlest Saabirah
Peace Love Justice
Rita
RKnight18
>Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998 13:11 EST
>Message-id: <364DC7BB...@yahoo.com>
>
>>
>
>Rita wrote:
>
>> The Protestants are even worse then the Baptists. I
>> was shocked to see the same person in a local club drunk as hell on
>Saturday
>> night helping to seat people in the church the next morning!
>>
>
I am not easily led astray Adam. As a matter of fact my husband says no one is
as stubborn as I am.
>Anyway,
>whats wrong with getting drunk on a Saturday night. I dont think God would
>mind
>that, of course your Muslim friends might:)
Adam do you really think you know what God minds or doesnt? Gee wish I could
achieve your level of knowing what God thinks. As for the evil of drink,the
Muslims are not the only ones who are wise to it.
Some people are better when they
>are
>drunk!
>
Saabirah
RKnight18 wrote in message <19981114205317...@ng112.aol.com>...
>>>
Adam wrote:
>>Anyway, whats wrong with getting drunk on a Saturday night. I dont think
God would
>>mind that, of course your Muslim friends might:)
>
>Adam do you really think you know what God minds or doesnt? Gee wish I
could
>achieve your level of knowing what God thinks. As for the evil of drink,the
>Muslims are not the only ones who are wise to it.
Thanks sister......and as usual may I reiterate your words <g>
>
>>Some people are better when they are drunk!
>>Adam
>
>Oh yeah Adam tell that to the Mother of a child killed by a drunk driver.
Or a
>women abused and beaten by a drunk husband.
Rita, that's a very down to earth, logical, and practical response. Isn't
it truly heart breaking to see those who must endure such? And, I know that
you have gained insight into this matter by doing what you can for such
unfortunates. May Allah(SWT) Reward you.
>
>Or wait better yet tell the man/women who lay near death from liver failure
due
>to alcohol. They sure are better drunk.
I truly believe that Adam would have the nerve or even the inclination to do
so -- perhaps Adam fails to *think* before the sarcastic remarks.
>
>Peace Love Justice
Insha'Llah, The Peace, Love and Justice of the One who is Capable of giving
it.
>Rita
And, your littlest sister -- Saabirah
Jeremiah McAuliffe
"drunkeness and disintegration are the direct result of disobedience
to spiritual principles"
Jeremiah McAuliffe
>To paraphrase an American (I must be getting low:) I would not join any
>religion that would have me as a member!
Oh Adam! We'd even take you. Seriously.
We want you to join us.
RKnight18
>Message-id: <364DC83B...@yahoo.com>
>
>
>
>Saabirah wrote:
>
>> Salaam,
>>
>> INFORMATION SERVICES wrote in message
>> >What is this religon of "the ilk" I have never heard of this. How many
>> "ilks"
>> >are there out there? It sounds a good religion to me, how do i join:)
>>
>> truly seek Allah/God. And, I'd dare say, you already belong.....
>>
>
>To paraphrase an American (I must be getting low:) I would not join any
>religion that would have me as a member!
>
>
Adam
There are some wonderful Americans.Please do not judge all Americans as low.
Please do not judge at all.
Peace Love Justice
Rita
Jeremiah McAuliffe
>And I'll bet there's even a heart under all that posturing, Adam.
Yup. But it seems to be trapped by fear and past hurts.
RKnight18
>Date: Sun, Nov 15, 1998 07:49 EST
>Message-id: <3651cdc1....@news.city-net.com>
>
>PaulG <gou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>And I'll bet there's even a heart under all that posturing, Adam.
>
>Yup. But it seems to be trapped by fear and past hurts.
>
and is also actually quite bright. Now to bring him back to humanity may take
some work.
He/she is in my prayers.
Peace Love Justice
Rita
INFORMATION SERVICES
>Adam wrote:
>
>>>Anyway, whats wrong with getting drunk on a Saturday night. I dont think
>God would
>>>mind that, of course your Muslim friends might:)
>>
>Thanks sister......and as usual may I reiterate your words <g>
>>
>>>Some people are better when they are drunk!
>>>Adam
>>
>>Oh yeah Adam tell that to the Mother of a child killed by a drunk driver.
>Or a
>>women abused and beaten by a drunk husband.
>
As usual you are getting my remarks out of context. It was meant as a joke
"some people are better when they are drunk". Where did the drunk drivers and
abused women come from?? Everyone agrees that misuse of booze is a bad thing,
but please some people who are drunk are no problem to anyone. Some just fall
asleep. Some red wine drunk every day, may help you live longer. Dont be so
dogmatic, not every one beats their wives after a drink! Lighten up!
Adam
INFORMATION SERVICES
>
>According to Bill Wilson, one of the co-founders of AA (I paraphrase)
>"drunkeness and disintegration are the direct result of disobedience
>to spiritual principles"
>
>
prophet?
Adam
INFORMATION SERVICES
>
>john smith <ad...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>To paraphrase an American (I must be getting low:) I would not join any
>>religion that would have me as a member!
>
>
>We want you to join us.
Yes Jerry but you are a member:)
Adam
INFORMATION SERVICES
>>
>>To paraphrase an American (I must be getting low:) I would not join any
>>religion that would have me as a member!
>>
>There are some wonderful Americans.Please do not judge all Americans as low.
>Please do not judge at all.
>
>Peace Love Justice
>Rita
>
>I was joking again Rita, maybe I should put this in brackets:) I think
Americans will be very nice adults when they grow up:) (This is a joke) They
do say irony is lost on Americans:)
Adam
Jeremiah McAuliffe
>I can relate to that! I am sure Adam has a heart
>and is also actually quite bright. Now to bring him back to humanity may take
>some work.
>He/she is in my prayers.
I think, if we are honest, we can ALL relate to this.
Insha Allah, let's all make a special effort this week to remember
Adam in our prayers.
Jeremiah McAuliffe
>Yes Jerry but you are a member:)
>
Well, they *had* to let me in. ;-)
Jeremiah McAuliffe
Bill Wilson was quite brilliant. You can read about him in my
dissertation which is available at my web site.
INFORMATION SERVICES
>>
>>Or wait better yet tell the man/women who lay near death from liver failure
>due
>>to alcohol. They sure are better drunk.
>
>I truly believe that Adam would have the nerve or even the inclination to do
>so -- perhaps Adam fails to *think* before the sarcastic remarks.
>>
>
"Judge not that ye be not judged" Have you tried the Gospels Saabirah:)
Adam
Saabirah
RKnight18 wrote in message <19981115083910...@ng66.aol.com>...
>>>And I'll bet there's even a heart under all that posturing, Adam.
>>
>>Yup. But it seems to be trapped by fear and past hurts.
Don't forget about the every day hurts Brother.
>>
>I can relate to that!
And so can we all dear sister -- so can we all!
I am sure Adam has a heart and is also actually quite bright.
Kinda scary isn't it!
Now to bring him back to humanity may take some work.
Maybe what Adam needs to find is a better way to express his humanity.
Anything worth *having* is worth working for............
>He/she is in my prayers.
And I, for one, know exactly how great those prayers are! Thanks Riot!
>
>Peace Love Justice
>Rita
littlest sister -- Saabirah
Saabirah
Jeremiah McAuliffe wrote in message
<364f0623....@news.city-net.com>...
>rkni...@aol.com (RKnight18) wrote:
>
>
>>I can relate to that! I am sure Adam has a heart
>>and is also actually quite bright. Now to bring him back to humanity may
take
>>some work.
>>He/she is in my prayers.
>
>I think, if we are honest, we can ALL relate to this.
>
>Insha Allah, let's all make a special effort this week to remember
>Adam in our prayers.
Jeremiah!!!! You mean that you haven't been praying for Adam all along? ;-)
littlest sister -- Saabirah
Jeremiah McAuliffe
>Salaam Jeremiah,
>
>Jeremiah McAuliffe wrote in message
><364f0623....@news.city-net.com>...
>>rkni...@aol.com (RKnight18) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I can relate to that! I am sure Adam has a heart
>>>and is also actually quite bright. Now to bring him back to humanity may
>take
>>>some work.
>>>He/she is in my prayers.
>>
>>I think, if we are honest, we can ALL relate to this.
>>
>>Insha Allah, let's all make a special effort this week to remember
>>Adam in our prayers.
>
>Jeremiah!!!! You mean that you haven't been praying for Adam all along? ;-)
A *special* effort, sister! ;-)
RKnight18
>Date: Sun, Nov 15, 1998 10:44 EST
>Message-id: <72mssd$aaf$1...@orac.sunderland.ac.uk>
one.You said some are better drunk. I honestly have never seen anyone BETTER
when drunk. Everything I said is what I have seen first hand about drunks so
thats where that came from. Maybe not every man who drinks beats his wife BUT
the shelters are full of women whose husbands do.
As for wine having medicinal purposes, yes I believe it does from the studies I
have read but from those studies I have also read you dont need to get drunk to
reap the benefit.
Sorry I just dont find humor in drunks.
Peace Love Justice
Rita
RKnight18
>Date: Sun, Nov 15, 1998 12:42 EST
>Message-id: <%nE32.591$7I3.635@pm01nn>
>
>Salaam sister,
>
>RKnight18 wrote in message <19981115083910...@ng66.aol.com>...
>
>>>>And I'll bet there's even a heart under all that posturing, Adam.
>>>
>>>Yup. But it seems to be trapped by fear and past hurts.
>
>Don't forget about the every day hurts Brother.
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Anything worth *having* is worth working for............
>
>
>
>>
YES INDEED SISTER ! And not even Adam
can escape the benefit of the power of prayer when its aimed right at you. Take
it from one who knows Adam.
Peace Love Justice
Rita
Saabirah
INFORMATION SERVICES wrote in message
<72n3b0$dbb$3...@orac.sunderland.ac.uk>...
>Rita + saabirah wrote:
>>>
>>I truly believe that Adam would have the nerve or even the inclination to
do
>>so -- perhaps Adam fails to *think* before the sarcastic remarks.
>>>
>>
>Now whose judging?? And most unfairly too.
Read Adam, read.....all I judged was your sarcastic remarks.
>"Judge not that ye be not judged" Have you tried the Gospels Saabirah:)
*lest* Adam -- not "that" And as for the Gospels, yes I tried 'em -- just
thought that I'd stick with the Message that Jesus(pbuh) came to
bring......as well as the completion of the Message, as in Qur'an.
Saabirah
>
>Adam
>
Saabirah
Jeremiah McAuliffe wrote in message <364f1ab...@news.city-net.com>...
>"Saabirah" <saab...@mci2000.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Jeremiah!!!! You mean that you haven't been praying for Adam all along?
;-)
>
>A *special* effort, sister! ;-)
Me too? Me too!!!
littlest sister -- Saabirah
RKnight18
>Date: Sun, Nov 15, 1998 10:46 EST
>Message-id: <72mt12$aaf$3...@orac.sunderland.ac.uk>
>
>In article <36524286...@news.city-net.com>, ali...@city-net.com
>says...
>>
>>john smith <ad...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>religion that would have me as a member!
>>
>>
>>We want you to join us.
>
>
>>
I hope you will be too one day Adam.
I would love for you to accept the friendship that has been offered to you.
Peace Love Justice
Rita
PS Jeremiah is not only a member but one in good standing.
Saabirah
Jeremiah McAuliffe wrote in message <364c96d5...@news.city-net.com>...
>rkni...@aol.com (RKnight18) wrote:
>
>> and I have a long long road still to travel.
>
>Well, whattaya know!
>
>We're all together on this!
Amaaaaaaazing!
PaulG
... from The Princess Bride
(I really liked that movie)
Anyone who has no past hurts (or present ones, for that matter) has no opportunity for growth. My "battle scars" are gifts from Allah (swt), for each one is due to an experience. We can each choose to either learn from our experiences, or wallow in them.
Alhamdul'iLah, I hope I have learned from them, and welcome each opportunity to grow in the wisdom of Allah(swt).
Remember the "Litany Against Fear" in Dune? I do believe
fear *is* the mind-killer, and, as can be seen from so many of the posters
here, the soul-killer also.
More's the pity, and they have my prayers.
Salaam and dua', brother
PaulG
8{)
Jeremiah McAuliffe wrote:
PaulG <gou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>And I'll bet there's even a heart under all that posturing, Adam.
Yup. But it seems to be trapped by fear and past hurts.
Jeremiah McAuliffe/ ali...@city-net.com