Re: Yesudas - A Noble Christian
and/or www.mantra.com/jai
"...But wait, the very same Jesudas had trouble getting his son baptised
by a Christian church, because Jesudas sang at Hindu temples! Jesudas
and his wife are card-carrying Christians. But the Christian church
balked at the ceremony of sprinkling holy water on their son because
Jesudas had committed the 'crime' of singing Hindu devotional songs!..."
- http://www.rediff.com/news/2000/oct/25rajeev.htm
Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti
In article <5dbbefb9-6f10-4fa3...@z25g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>,
fanabba <fan...@aol.com> posted:
>
> Yesudas, a Christian and renowned singer of India, has recorded
> portions of Chapters 2, 12 and 15 of the Bhagavad Gita on two CDs
> easily available from Amazon.com:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Bhagavad-Yesudas-Director-Rangasami-Parthasarathy/dp/B00004TFHA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1276634827&sr=1-2
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Bhagavad-Gita-Chapters-Yesudas-Director-Rangasami-Parthasarathy/dp/B00004TFHE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1276634827&sr=1-1
>
> Yesudas's exquisite rendition, and his incomparable voice bring joy to
> devout Hindus.
>
> Hindus thank this noble follower of Jesus.
>
and/or www.mantra.com/jai
uNmaivirumbi <tripur...@yahoo.com> posted:
> On Jun 15, 4:51=A0pm, fanabba <fana...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Yesudas, a Christian and renowned singer of India, has recorded
> > portions of
> > Chapters 2, 12 and 15 of the Bhagavad Gita on two CDs easily available
> > from Amazon.com:
> cinema style singing. At least he tried. So that is good
Staying on the path of Dharm is vital, and that itself is a glorious goal.
P. Rajah
abominable ass-trolloger wrote:
> Christians ditched Yesudas:
>
> "...But wait, the very same Jesudas had trouble getting his son baptised
> by a Christian church, because Jesudas sang at Hindu temples! Jesudas
> and his wife are card-carrying Christians. But the Christian church
> balked at the ceremony of sprinkling holy water on their son because
> Jesudas had committed the 'crime' of singing Hindu devotional songs!..."
>
> - http://www.rediff.com/news/2000/oct/25rajeev.htm
Rajeev Srinivasan is an idiot. Jesudas and his wife are not
"card-carrying Christians", because if they were, they would not worship
a Hindu deity at a Hindu temple. Secondly, the baptism of his older son
was initially refused not on the grounds of Jesudas "singing Hindu
devotional songs", but because he had worshiped at a Hindu temple, thus
violating a fundamental tenet of Christianity. Nobody called it a
"crime", except elements of the saffron web like Rajeev. This is no
different than a temple denying entry and worship to people it finds in
violation of its tenets, a fact Rajeev conveniently justifies thus:
"they have the right to restrict entry only to Hindus". He doesn't
address the issue of temple entry being refused to certain groups of
Hindus, or to whites*.
That said, there are many churches all over the world which would not
have refused to baptize his son, another fact that Rajeev ignores in his
quest to smear all of Christianity.
ind...@india.com
>Rajeev Srinivasan is an idiot. Jesudas and his wife are not
>"card-carrying Christians", because if they were, they would not worship
>a Hindu deity at a Hindu temple. Secondly, the baptism of his older son
>was initially refused not on the grounds of Jesudas "singing Hindu
>devotional songs", but because he had worshiped at a Hindu temple, thus
>violating a fundamental tenet of Christianity. Nobody called it a
>"crime", except elements of the saffron web like Rajeev. This is no
>different than a temple denying entry and worship to people it finds in
>violation of its tenets, a fact Rajeev conveniently justifies thus:
>"they have the right to restrict entry only to Hindus". He doesn't
>address the issue of temple entry being refused to certain groups of
>Hindus, or to whites*.
Rajeev Srinivasan belongs to Ezhava caste.
You may very well be right that he is a christian hating idiot,
but calling him saffron has an implied subtext that he is a
brahmin or a bania, which is what I am correcting here.
harmony
<ind...@india.com> wrote in message news:hve4b...@drn.newsguy.com...
subtext - only in the mangled minds of kirastani klutz.
M. Ranjit Mathews
> Jay Stevens Maharaj aka the jumpin' jackass jyotishithead aka the
>
> abominable ass-trolloger wrote:
> > Christians ditched Yesudas:
>
> > "...But wait, the very same Jesudas had trouble getting his son baptised
> > by a Christian church, because Jesudas sang at Hindu temples! Jesudas
> > and his wife are card-carrying Christians. But the Christian church
> > balked at the ceremony of sprinkling holy water on their son because
> > Jesudas had committed the 'crime' of singing Hindu devotional songs!..."
>
>
> Rajeev Srinivasan is an idiot. Jesudas and his wife are not
> "card-carrying Christians", because if they were, they would not worship
> a Hindu deity at a Hindu temple. Secondly, the baptism of his older son
> was initially refused not on the grounds of Jesudas "singing Hindu
> devotional songs",
He sings Christian devotional songs too:
http://www.topshareware.com/yesudas-christian-devotional-songs/downloads/1.htm
> but because he had worshiped at a Hindu temple, thus
> violating a fundamental tenet of Christianity.
Be that as it may, the Bible doesn't say that Jesus asked this
Centurion to cease worshipping at pagan temples:
Matthew 8:5-13 and Luke 7:2-101
It clearly states that the Centurion came to Jesus in Matt. 8:5. But
it also says that the Jewish elders came to Jesus. The order of events
seem to be that the Centurion first sent the Jewish elders (Luke 7:3).
Jesus then agreed to go. Then the Centurion came to Jesus (Matt. 8:5).
Jesus walked everywhere he went. Centurions commanded hundred-men
groups in the Roman legion. "Such men were prestigious members of a
relatively small class governing the military."2 Therefore, the
centurion most probably had a horse upon which to ride to and from
where Jesus was. If this is so, then he probably returned to his home,
checked on the servant, and then sent friends (Luke 7:6) to speak to
Jesus and say that he, the Centurion, was not worthy for Jesus to even
enter his home. Jesus continued on. Then as Jesus neared the home, the
Centurion himself approached Jesus (Matt. 8:8) to tell Him that he was
not worthy for Him to enter his house.
http://www.carm.org/bible-difficulties/matthew-mark/who-brought-centurions-request-jesus
An interesting fine point:
Reverend Don Matzat's defense of Dr. David Benke's prayer with pagan
clergy in Yankee Stadium raises the question of whether or not prayer
is an act of worship. Dr. Benke himself has clearly stated that he
prayed in the presence of clerics from other Christian denominations
and from a variety of non-Christian faiths but did not pray 'with
them.'
http://www.reclaimingwalther.org/articles/-400/jmc00510.htm
An appeals panel of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod (LCMS) has
overturned the suspension of pastor David Benke for praying at an
interfaith September 11 memorial event at Yankee Stadium. Schulz told
Christianity Today that he strongly disagrees with the decision. He
says he based his decision to suspend Benke on Scripture, but the
panel's "14-page decision contains not one direct reference to God's
Word. To make their case, the panel simply quoted a convention
resolution."
http://www.ctlibrary.com/ct/2003/mayweb-only/31.0.html
> Nobody called it a
> "crime", except elements of the saffron web like Rajeev. This is no
> different than a temple denying entry and worship to people it finds in
> violation of its tenets, a fact Rajeev conveniently justifies thus:
> "they have the right to restrict entry only to Hindus". He doesn't
> address the issue of temple entry being refused to certain groups of
> Hindus, or to whites*.
>
> That said, there are many churches all over the world which would not
> have refused to baptize his son, another fact that Rajeev ignores in his
> quest to smear all of Christianity.
>
> *http://www.nchro.org/public_html/index.php?option=com_content&view=ar...
This was an odd case:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/02/muslim.minister.defrocked/
SEATTLE, Washington (CNN) -- Ann Holmes Redding has what could be
called a crisis of faiths. Ann Holmes Redding says she sees no
contradiction in being both a Christian minister and a Muslim. For
nearly 30 years, Redding has been an ordained minister in the
Episcopal Church. Her priesthood ended Wednesday when she was
defrocked. The reason? For the past three years Redding has been both
a practicing Christian and a Muslim.
P. Rajah
While Brahmins or "Banias" may be the financiers and controllers, they
do not have the numbers(and perhaps the courage)to form rioting crowds
throughout the country. Most of the violence is actually carried out by
lower-caste Hindus egged on by the propaganda and money of
Baniyas("spacially" NRI baniyas like pradipshit parekh).
P. Rajah
No, Jesus was not in the business of conversions, and the centurion was
not professing to being a Jew. Jesus was not starting a new religion, he
was simply reforming the old(and perhaps society in general) into a more
compassionate outlook. Be that as it may, I think many/all of the
"faith-healing" stories are fictional, just like many similar stories in
other religions, intended to create a supernatural aura. But that is
neither here not there. This is about how Christianity(or any other
religion) is practiced, and the rules that govern them. I know several
Kerala Christians who have had to undergo "conversion" from one
denomination to another just to get married. Apparently, several of
these denominations consider that only their members are "real"
Christians, and the rest are probably pagans. I've attended these
weddings, and found them so steeped in ritualism and monetarism that
there doesn't seem to be room left for anything that might actually be
related to Jesus' teachings.
ind...@india.com
>While Brahmins or "Banias" may be the financiers and controllers, they
>do not have the numbers(and perhaps the courage)to form rioting crowds
>throughout the country. Most of the violence is actually carried out by
>lower-caste Hindus egged on by the propaganda and money of
>Baniyas("spacially" NRI baniyas like pradipshit parekh).
RS is a IIT Chennai / IIM Ahmedabad product and does not need
NRI money to hate Christians/Chinese/Muzzies. While one may not
agree with all of his views, to say that he is a victim of propaganda
is humbug. If anything, he should be charged for propaganda.
This is his blog: http://rajeev2004.blogspot.com/
Seems to be a big hit among many Indians.
P. Rajah
I wasn't referring to RS raising money from NRIs(that is done by groups
like VHP-NA, OFBJP, etc.), although Rajeev is clearly part of the
propaganda machine("Hindu Nationalist Perspective").
I looked at his latest post, and he repeats a chestnut that has found
resonance among the gullible:
"On the one hand, temple offerings are expropriated by the State; yet,
the State does not even perform basic maintenance. The offerings,
amounting to crores, from large shrines such as Tirupati or Sabarimala,
are simply treated as general government revenue, and are not recycled
to small, poor temples."
As far as I have been able to ascertain, donations at Tirupati, for
example, are not "treated as general government revenue". Indeed, TTD is
sitting on a stupendous cash hoard, in addition to vast quantities of
gold and jewels, something that could not possibly occur if TTD income
was "treated as general government revenue". So much cash does TTD have
that it recently proposed to gold-plate the inner walls of the temple,
although the matter is sub judice now:
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/specials/cwg/Story/93973/India/Andhra+HC+stays+Tirupati+gold-plating+plan.html
This is not to say, by any means, that TTD does not do good works with
the money, they do. But I'm tired of hearing this nonsense repeated that
the money is being diverted to churches and mosques, that Christians are
sitting on the TTD board siphoning away money for conversions, etc.
The 2010-11 budget:
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/nellore/ttd-trust-board-projects-budget-rs-133891cr-163
ind...@india.com
>I wasn't referring to RS raising money from NRIs(that is done by groups
>like VHP-NA, OFBJP, etc.), although Rajeev is clearly part of the
>propaganda machine("Hindu Nationalist Perspective").
>
>I looked at his latest post, and he repeats a chestnut that has found
>resonance among the gullible:
why don't u post your views in his blog in comments section.
harmony
<ind...@india.com> wrote in message news:hvgui...@drn.newsguy.com...
brown kirstani converts sound mighty comedic when they speak of gullibility.
P. Rajah
You mean like they believe stories about elephants standing on space
turtles and holding up the earth? Or is it about a Christian-hater who
thinks his wife's little patients are gullible enough to swallow his
stories about how "tolerant" his alleged faith is?
P. Rajah
What purpose does that serve? RS is fully aware that he is spreading
untruths, and he does so willingly and eagerly. Unlike USENET, a blog
has a certain element of ownership, therefore I do not post comments on
blogs.
Myself, PresentContinuouslyTenseMallu
Financiers and thinkers usually do not lead any battles (religious or
otherwise). Financiers and thinkers get to strategize and to mobilize
the troops. It is the infantryman that actually fights the battles. Such
behavior is not limited to Hindus (brahmins, or shudras, or everybody in
between). Christians, Muslims, Jews, ... are also quite well practiced
in this 'art.'
Myself, PresentContinuouslyTenseMallu
You too could do the same, couldn't you? :-)
P. Rajah
I don't allege that this behavior is limited to Hindus, far from it. I'm
also opposed to the senseless violence perpetrated by people who call
themselves Christians, Muslims, Jews, communists, Buddhists, etc.
However, my posts in the newsgroups are only reactive to those posters
who incessantly allege that only Christians(and Muslims and communists)
do bad things, and the tone of my posts is very similar to your comment
that others(i.e., alleged Hindus) "are also quite well practiced" in
gratuitous and senseless violence fomented by propagandists. True
religionists and humanists(i.e., good people who believe/don't believe
in God/gods) would never inflict violence on other people.
Fundamental Christians(or people who call themselves so) like those
found on CBN, i.e., people like Pat Robertson and his ilk, are among
those who keep the pot boiling on the Israeli/Palestinian issue, and
block justice for the Palestinians, because their vision of a
world-ending conflict taking place in the region would suffer an
enormous if not fatal blow if there was a true peace settlement. They
are engaging in self-fulfilling "prophesies" by trying to create a
conflagration that will envelope the whole world. I have many heated
arguments on this topic because, as I see it, a regional conflict in a
tiny little part of the world has had tremendous ramifications for the
rest of the world, mostly as the consequence of the failure of the world
community to impose a just settlement 60 years ago. Even such ordinary
matters as flying between two American airports, the privacy of one's
electronic communications, one's rights to control one's own
information, etc. are directly impacted by the ongoing consequences of
this conflict involving little more than 1/10th of 1 percent of the
world's population. Or, to put it another way, 99.9% of the world's
population have nothing to do with it, and yet suffer its impact in
their daily lives.
But as a person of Indian origin, I cannot ignore the retrograde
machinations of the saffron sangh, which would plunge India into an orgy
of violence of proportions which probably have never before been seen on
the sub-continent, were they to succeed. Some might call this a
pessimistic view, but I prefer not to ignore or gloss over the potential.
uNmaivirumbi
Muslims and Christians invented fanaticism and practice it vigorously.
Hindus *have to teach them a lesson* and pay back *in the same way*.
We must adopt a clear staunch approach, condemn them and oppose them
at every step. "All religions are same" does not work and only leads
to further chaos and anti nationalism
Muslims and Christians will not learn if we are kind and adopt a soft
way. We tried that for 2000 years.
Time to rise and fight every harm they do, whenever they do and
everywhere
They will never learn any other way
Myself, PresentContinuouslyTenseMallu
Violence is extremely silly. Only baboons (of any faith) practice this,
because there is very little substance between the ears. Happily though,
must chest thumping here is done by paper tigers, and/or by 'spirited'
(liquid phase) monkeys from the Omland. ;-)
> Fundamental Christians(or people who call themselves so) like those
> found on CBN, i.e., people like Pat Robertson and his ilk, are among
> those who keep the pot boiling on the Israeli/Palestinian issue, and
> block justice for the Palestinians, because their vision of a
> world-ending conflict taking place in the region would suffer an
> enormous if not fatal blow if there was a true peace settlement. They
> are engaging in self-fulfilling "prophesies" by trying to create a
> conflagration that will envelope the whole world. I have many heated
> arguments on this topic because, as I see it, a regional conflict in a
> tiny little part of the world has had tremendous ramifications for the
> rest of the world, mostly as the consequence of the failure of the world
> community to impose a just settlement 60 years ago. Even such ordinary
> matters as flying between two American airports, the privacy of one's
> electronic communications, one's rights to control one's own
> information, etc. are directly impacted by the ongoing consequences of
> this conflict involving little more than 1/10th of 1 percent of the
> world's population. Or, to put it another way, 99.9% of the world's
> population have nothing to do with it, and yet suffer its impact in
> their daily lives.
>
Self-fulfilling 'prophesies' or coffer-filling 'strategies'? Pat
"Stormstopper" Robertson is one completely untrustworthy character. He
is not alone though - the 'mega churches' in the US are not on the up
and up too. These folks are of the view that Jesus was the original
'capitalist' and the reptiles that like to spread the word (more like
prey on people) in the 'third world.' Heh, nutters who'd keep dyslexic
'spirited' monkeys good company. :-)
> But as a person of Indian origin, I cannot ignore the retrograde
> machinations of the saffron sangh, which would plunge India into an orgy
> of violence of proportions which probably have never before been seen on
> the sub-continent, were they to succeed. Some might call this a
> pessimistic view, but I prefer not to ignore or gloss over the potential.
All hyper-religious folks (world over) are involved in 'retrograde
machinations,' not so much to foment violence, but to make money. The
preferred way is to use a little finesse, but sometimes money has to be
coaxed out. Nothing like invoking the divine to make that money flow. :-)
P. Rajah
Try to get that RSS dildo out of your asshole...
uNmaivirumbi
> Mad Sudhan wrote:
> They will never learn any other way
>
> Try to get that RSS dildo out of your asshole...
I should have remembered you are incapable of any decent answer
without vulgarity ( no doubt a Christian). I wanted to give you one
more chance to behave better
P. Rajah
Why do you edit out the shit you write, asshole? Here's what you wrote:
> Muslims and Christians invented fanaticism and practice it vigorously.
> Hindus *have to teach them a lesson* and pay back *in the same way*.
>
> We must adopt a clear staunch approach, condemn them and oppose them
> at every step. "All religions are same" does not work and only leads
> to further chaos and anti nationalism
>
> Muslims and Christians will not learn if we are kind and adopt a soft
> way. We tried that for 2000 years.
>
> Time to rise and fight every harm they do, whenever they do and
> everywhere
>
> They will never learn any other way
Here's some more shit that you have written:
"bastard cult", "bastard son of Mary", "bastard son of Mary and Ben
Tiberius Panthera", "unholy Jesus babble", "christians and muslims
barbarians", "Jesus was a habitual liar" "Jesus was a bastard" "Bastards
who support a bastard cult", "(Mary) was also a prostitute", etc.
And you talk about *others* needing to "behave better"? Gtfooh, you
douchebag!
Moorthy
>
> This is not to say, by any means, that TTD does not do good works with
> the money, they do. But I'm tired of hearing this nonsense repeated that
> the money is being diverted to churches and mosques, that Christians are
> sitting on the TTD board siphoning away money for conversions, etc.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
How does it compares TTD wealth of the Church in general and RC in
particular? It is interesting that RC has been consistently against
contraception and yet has invested in contraceptive making firms! How
about ill-gotten wealth of India Church and churchmen, their caste-
based discrimination, and historical worldwide Xtian deeds of past of
slave trade, burning witches and mass gencodie of entire continents of
darkies?
P. Rajah
What does _any_ of that have to do with the false propaganda that TTD
funds are being "treated as general government revenue" and diverted to
churches and mosques? You have that knee-jerk reaction that is so
typical of the insecurity that marks supporters of the RSS/VHP agenda.
On top of which, you are being dishonest when you say that the RC church
"has invested in contraceptive making firms". The reality is that
banking arms of the RC church have occasionally made investments in
*pharmaceutical* firms(Wyeth and Pfizer, for example) that turned out
also to be making contraceptive products, and upon learning of it, they
have disinvested. Your implication is that they invested in firms that
specifically manufacture contraceptives. If you have invested in Boeing
or British Aerospace shares, would you say that you have invested in a
weapons manufacturing company, that you are looking to profit from war
and death? If you buy shares in Church & Dwight(who own the Arm and
Hammer brand), are you specifically investing in Trojan condoms? It is
difficult in today's interconnected global business environment to be
absolutely certain about everything a particular investment relates to,
or to separate various aspects of the business.
uNmaivirumbi
> And you talk about *others* needing to "behave better"? Gtfooh, you
> douchebag!
Your probation has been extended
P. Rajah
Make your wife work some more overtime so you can spend all your time
posting shit to USENET. You, pradipshit, Jay Stevens, what a trifecta of
wife-mooching douchebags!
Moorthy
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > How does it compares TTD wealth of the Church in general and RC in
> > particular? It is interesting that RC has been consistently against
> > contraception and yet has invested in contraceptive making firms! How
> > about ill-gotten wealth of India Church and churchmen, their caste-
> > based discrimination, and historical worldwide Xtian deeds of past of
> > slave trade, burning witches and mass gencodie of entire continents of
> > darkies?
>
> What does _any_ of that have to do with the false propaganda that TTD
> funds are being "treated as general government revenue" and diverted to
> churches and mosques?
FYI, these two are not mutually exclusive.
You have that knee-jerk reaction that is so
> typical of the insecurity that marks supporters of the RSS/VHP agenda.
If defending Hindu temples makes me supporter of RSS/VHP agenda then
by same token your defence of Church must maks you a what a white
rightwinger.
>
> On top of which, you are being dishonest when you say that the RC church
> "has invested in contraceptive making firms". The reality is that
> banking arms of the RC church have occasionally made investments in
> *pharmaceutical* firms(Wyeth and Pfizer, for example) that turned out
> also to be making contraceptive products, and upon learning of it, they
> have disinvested. Your implication is that they invested in firms that
> specifically manufacture contraceptives. If you have invested in Boeing
> or British Aerospace shares, would you say that you have invested in a
> weapons manufacturing company, that you are looking to profit from war
> and death? If you buy shares in Church & Dwight(who own the Arm and
> Hammer brand), are you specifically investing in Trojan condoms? It is
> difficult in today's interconnected global business environment to be
> absolutely certain about everything a particular investment relates to,
> or to separate various aspects of the business.-
Hmm, having checked the facts and getting a kick up your sad tail you
go to pathetically defend the indefensible, church with shares in
killing business. Church with billions and carry out most shady deals.
Why does the Vatican sell its ill-gotten wealth of tens of billions to
feed darkies, who were impoverished by the church in the first place.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8180739.stm
P. Rajah
I don't give a shit whether they are mutually exclusive or not, the
point is that TTD funds do _not_ accrue to the government, as you and
your merry band of liars like to keep repeating.
[irrelevant crap deleted]
uNmaivirumbi
It is a common trick by Christians in TN to pretend to be agnostics or
atheists and use that stance to condemn Hindus! They are crypto-
Christians who defend Christianity when attacked and never defend
anything else!
P. Rajah
Why don't you look in the mirror, you ugly hypocrite?
Myself, PresentContinuouslyTenseMallu
>
>
> I don't give a shit whether they are mutually exclusive or not, the
> point is that TTD funds do _not_ accrue to the government, as you and
> your merry band of liars like to keep repeating.
>
> [irrelevant crap deleted]
I have never come across any independent/unbiased sources that claim TTD
revenues accrue to the government. However, the following Outlook India
article from 2004
http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?225798
says the TTD revenue is a whopping Rs.600 cr, and that only 10-17% of
that revenue goes towards charitable and social activities. That seems
kind of low. Hopefully, a larger chunk of the revenue is invested in
educational institutions and other relevant development projects
regardless of the religious makeup of the communities that the TTD
serves. Anyways, the article is quite interesting - the views of Swami
Agnivesh, Rev. Thampu (CNI), Khushwant Singh puts paid on lot of the
claims made in this newsgroup. :-)
All that aside, the larger question is whether government (esp. that of
a claimed 'secular' one) oversight is necessary of religious
institutions, and what is in it for the government, if any of the
revenues from religious institutions do no accrue to it? A follow on
question is, why are Hindu religious institutions the exclusive
beneficiaries of government oversight? Why not other places like
Amritsar, Ajmer, ... The places too bring in a whole pile of revenue.
P. Rajah
Do _you_ defend anything else, you hypocrite ass-wipe?