'CASTE' by Prof. Koenraad Elst
Dr. Jai Maharaj
Verdict from Belgium
Last month, two ardent Hindus battled out the
controversial pros and cons of caste. This month's
assessment, from Europe, focuses on history and how jati
and varn have, for the most part, helped rather than
hurt Hinduism.
By Prof. Koenraad Elst
Hinduism Today
http://www.hinduismtoday.com
September 1994
In an inter-faith debate, most Hindus can easily be put
on the defensive with a single word -- caste. Any anti-
Hindu polemist can be counted on to allege that "the
typically Hindu caste system is the most cruel apartheid,
imposed by the barbaric white Aryan invaders on the
gentle dark-skinned natives." Here's a more balanced and
historical account of this controversial institution.
Merits of the Caste System
The caste system is often portrayed as the ultimate
horror. Inborn inequality is indeed unacceptable to us
moderns, but this does not preclude that the system has
also had its merits.
Caste is perceived as an "exclusion-from," but first of
all it is a form of "belonging-to," a natural structure
of solidarity. For this reason, Christian and Muslim
missionaries found it very difficult to lure Hindus away
from their communities. Sometimes castes were
collectively converted to Islam, and Pope Gregory XV
(1621-23) decreed that the missionaries could tolerate
caste distinction among Christian converts; but by and
large, caste remained an effective hurdle to the
destruction of Hinduism through conversion. That is why
the missionaries started attacking the institution of
caste and in particular the brahmin caste. This
propaganda has bloomed into a full-fledged anti-
brahminism, the Indian equivalent of anti-Semitism.
Every caste had a large measure of autonomy, with its own
judiciary, duties and privileges, and often its own
temples. Inter-caste affairs were settled at the village
council by consensus; even the lowest caste had veto
power. This autonomy of intermediate levels of society is
the antithesis of the totalitarian society in which the
individual stands helpless before the all-powerful state.
This decentralized structure of civil society and of the
Hindu religious commonwealth has been crucial to the
survival of Hinduism under Muslim rule. Whereas Buddhism
was swept away as soon as its monasteries were destroyed,
Hinduism retreated into its caste structure and weathered
the storm.
Caste also provided a framework for integrating immigrant
communities: Jews, Zoroastrians and Syrian Christians.
They were not only tolerated, but assisted in efforts to
preserve their distinctive traditions.
Typically Hindu?
It is routinely claimed that caste is a uniquely Hindu
institution. Yet, counter examples are not hard to come
by. In Europe and elsewhere, there was (or still is) a
hierarchical distinction between noblemen and commoners,
with nobility only marrying nobility. Many tribal
societies punished the breach of endogamy rules with
death.
Coming to the Indian tribes, we find Christian
missionaries claiming that "tribals are not Hindus
because they do not observe caste." In reality,
missionary literature itself is rife with testimonies of
caste practices among tribals. A spectacular example is
what the missions call "the Mistake:" the attempt, in
1891, to make tribal converts in Chhotanagpur inter-dine
with converts from other tribes. It was a disaster for
the mission. Most tribals renounced Christianity because
they chose to preserve the taboo on inter-dining. As
strongly as the haughtiest brahmin, they refused to mix
what God hath separated.
Endogamy and exogamy are observed by tribal societies the
world over. The question is therefore not why Hindu
society invented this system, but how it could preserve
these tribal identities even after outgrowing the tribal
stage of civilization. The answer lies largely in the
expanding Vedic culture's intrinsically respectful and
conservative spirit, which ensured that each tribe could
preserve its customs and traditions, including its
defining custom of tribal endogamy.
Description and History
The Portuguese colonizers applied the term caste,
"lineage, breed," to two different Hindu institutions:
jati and varn. The effective unit of the caste system is
the jati, birth-unit, an endogamous group into which you
are born, and within which you marry. In principle, you
can only dine with fellow members, but the pressures of
modern life have eroded this rule. The several thousands
of jatis are subdivided in exogamous clans, gotr. This
double division dates back to tribal society.
By contrast, varn is the typical functional division of
an advanced society -- the Indus/Saraswati civilization,
3rd millennium, BCE. The youngest part of the Rg-Ved
describes four classes: learned brahmins born from
Brahma's mouth, martial kshatriya-born from his arms;
vaishya entrepreneurs born from His hips and shoodr
workers born from His feet. Everyone is a shoodr by
birth. Boys become dwij, twice-born, or member of one of
the three upper varns upon receiving the sacred thread in
the upanayan ceremony.
The varn system expanded from the Saraswati-Yamuna area
and got firmly established in the whole of Aryavart
(Kashmir to Vidarbha, Sindh to Bihar). It counted as a
sign of superior culture setting the arya, civilized,
heartland apart from the surrounding mlechh, barbaric,
lands. In Bengal and the South, the system was reduced to
a distinction between brahmins and shudras. Varn is a
ritual category and does not fully correspond to
effective social or economic status. Thus, half of the
princely rulers in British India were shoodr and a few
were brahmins, though it is the kshatriya function par
excellence. Many shoodr are rich, many brahmins
impoverished.
The Mahabharat defines the varn qualities thus: "He in
whom you find truthfulness, generosity, absence of
hatred, modesty, goodness and self-restraint, is a
brahman. He who fulfills the duties of a knight, studies
the scriptures, concentrates on acquisition and
distribution of riches, is a kshatriya. He who loves
cattle-breeding, agriculture and money, is honest and
well-versed in scripture, is a vaishya. He who eats
anything, practises any profession, ignores purity rules,
and takes no interest in scriptures and rules of life, is
a shoodr." The higher the varn, the more rules of self-
discipline are to be observed. Hence, a jati could
collectively improve its status by adopting more
demanding rules of conduct, e.g. vegetarianism.
A person's second name usually indicates his jati or
gotra. Further, one can use the following varn titles:
Sharma (shelter, or joy) indicates the brahmin, Varma
(armour) the kshatriya, Gupta (protected) the vaishya and
Das (servant) the shoodr. In a single family, one person
may call himself Gupta (varn), another Agrawal (jati),
yet another Garg (gotra). A monk, upon renouncing the
world, sheds his name along with his caste identity.
Untouchability
Below the caste hierarchy are the untouchables, or
harijan (literally "God's people"), dalits ("oppressed"),
paraiah (one such caste in South India), or scheduled
castes. They make up about 16% of the Indian population,
as many as the upper castes combined.
Untouchability originates in the belief that evil spirits
surround dead and dying substances. People who work with
corpses, body excretions or animal skins had an aura of
danger and impurity, so they were kept away from
mainstream society and from sacred learning and ritual.
This often took grotesque forms: thus, an untouchable had
to announce his polluting proximity with a rattle, like a
leper.
Untouchability is unknown in the Vedas, and therefore
repudiated by neo-Vedic reformers like Dayanand
Saraswati, Narayan Guru, Gandhiji and Savarkar. In 1967,
Dr. Ambedkar, a dalit by birth and fierce critic of
social injustice in Hinduism and Islam, led a mass
conversion to Buddhism, partly on the (unhistorical)
assumption that Buddhism had been an anti-caste movement.
The 1950 constitution outlawed untouchability and
sanctioned positive discrimination programs for the
Scheduled Castes and Tribes. Lately, the Vishva Hindu
Parishad has managed to get even the most traditionalist
religious leaders on the anti-untouchability platform, so
that they invite harijans to Vedic schools and train them
as priests. In the villages, however, pestering of dalits
is still a regular phenomenon, occasioned less by ritual
purity issues than by land and labor disputes. However,
the dalits' increasing political clout is accelerating
the elimination of untouchability.
Caste Conversion
In the Mahabharat, Yuddhishtthir affirms that varn is
defined by the qualities of head and heart, not by one's
birth. Krishna teaches that varn is defined by one's
activity (karm) and quality (guna). Till today, it is an
unfinished debate to what extent one's "quality" is
determined by heredity or by environmental influence. And
so, while the hereditary view has been predominant for
long, the non-hereditary conception of varn has always
been around as well, as is clear from the practice of
varn conversion. The most famous example is the 17th-
century freedom fighter Shivaji, a shoodr who was
accorded kshatriya status to match his military
achievements. The geographical spread of Vedic tradition
was achieved through large-scale initiation of local
elites into the varn order. From 1875 onwards, the Arya
Samaj has systematically administered the "purification
ritual" (shuddhi) to Muslim and Christian converts and to
low-caste Hindus, making the dwij. Conversely, the
present policy of positive discrimination has made upper-
caste people seek acceptance into the favored Scheduled
Castes.
Veer Savarkar, the ideologue of Hindu nationalism,
advocated intermarriage to unify the Hindu nation even at
the biological level. Most contemporary Hindus, though
now generally opposed to caste inequality, continue to
marry within their respective jati because they see no
reason for their dissolution.
Racial Theory of Caste
Nineteenth-century Westerners projected the colonial
situation and the newest race theories on the caste
system: the upper castes were white invaders lording it
over the black natives. This outdated view is still
repeated ad-nauseam by anti-Hindu authors: now that
"idolatry" has lost its force as a term of abuse,
"racism" is a welcome innovation to demonize Hinduism. In
reality, India is the region where all skin color types
met and mingled, and you will find many brahmins as black
as Nelson Mandela. Ancient "Aryan" heroes like Raam,
Krishna, Draupadi, Ravan (a brahmin) and a number of
Vedic seers were explicitly described as being dark-
skinned.
But doesn't varn mean "skin color?" The effective meaning
of varn is "splendor, color," and hence "distinctive
quality" or "one segment in a spectrum." The four
functional classes constitute the "colors" in the
spectrum of society. Symbolic colors are allotted to the
varn on the basis of the cosmological scheme of "three
qualities" (triguna): white is sattva (truthful), the
quality typifying the brahmin; red is rajas (energetic),
for the kshatriya; black is tamas (inert, solid), for the
shoodr; yellow is allotted to the vaishya, who is defined
by a mixture of qualities.
Finally, caste society has been the most stable society
in history. Indian communists used to sneer that "India
has never even had a revolution." Actually, that is no
mean achievement.
Address: Professor Koenraad Elst, PO box 103, 2000 Leuven
3, Belgium.
Dr. Elst is a Belgian scholar who has extensively studied
the current socio-political situation in India. Keenly
interested in Asian philosophies and traditions from his
early years, he has studied yoga, aikido and other
oriental disciplines. Between 1988 and 1993 he spent much
of his time in India doing research at the prestigious
Banaras Hindu University.
More at:
http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/1994/9/1994-9-12.shtml
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
TRIBUTES TO HINDUISM
1. Mahatma Gandhi:
"Hinduism has made marvelous discoveries in things of
religion, of the spirit, of the soul. We have no eye for
these great and fine discoveries. We are dazzled by the
material progress that western science has made. Ancient
India has survived because Hinduism was not developed
along material but spiritual lines.
"India is to me the dearest country in the world, because
I have discovered goodness in it. It has been subject to
foreign rule, it is true. But the status of a slave is
preferable to that of a slave holder."
2. Henry David Thoreau:
"In the morning I bathe my intellect in the stupendous
and cosmogonal philosophy of the Bhagavad Gita in
comparison with which our modern world and its literature
seems puny.
"What extracts from the Vedas I have read fall on me like
the light of a higher and purer luminary, which describes
a loftier course through purer stratum. It rises on me
like the full moon after the stars have come out, wading
through some far stratum in the sky."
3. Arthur Schopenhauer:
"In the whole world there is no study so beneficial and
so elevating as that of the Upanishads. It has been the
solace of my life -- it will be the solace of my death."
4. Ralph Waldo Emerson said this about the Gita:
"I owed a magnificent day to the Bhagavad Gita. It was as
if an empire spoke to us, nothing small or unworthy, but
large, serene, consistent, the voice of an old
intelligence which in another age and climate had
pondered and thus disposed of the same questions which
exercise us."
The famous poem "Brahm" is an example of his Vedanta
ecstasy.
5. Wilhelm von Humboldt pronounced the Gita as:
"The most beautiful, perhaps the only true philosophical
song existing in any known tongue ... perhaps the deepest
and loftiest thing the world has to show."
6. Lord Warren Hastings, the Governor General, was very
much impressed with Hindu philosophy:
"The writers of the Indian philosophies will survive,
when the British dominion in India shall long have ceased
to exist, and when the sources which it yielded of wealth
and power are lost to remembrances."
7. Mark Twain:
"So far as I am able to judge, nothing has been left
undone, either by man or nature, to make India the most
extraordinary country that the sun visits on his rounds.
Nothing seems to have been forgotten, nothing overlooked.
"Land of religions, cradle of human race, birthplace of
human speech, grandmother of legend, great grandmother of
tradition. The land that all men desire to see and having
seen once even by a glimpse, would not give that glimpse
for the shows of the rest of the globe combined."
8. Rudyard Kipling to Fundamental Christian Missionaries:
"Now it is not good for the Christian's health to hustle
the Hindu brown for the Christian riles and the Hindu
smiles and weareth the Christian down; and the end of the
fight is a tombstone while with the name of the late
deceased and the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here who
tried to hustle the east".
9. Jules Michelet, a French historian, said:
"At its starting point in India, the birthplace of races
and religions, the womb of the world." This is what he
said of the Raamyana in 1864: "Whoever has done or willed
too much let him drink from this deep cup a long draught
of life and youth .. . Everything is narrow in the West -
- Greece is small and I stifle; Judea is dry and I pant.
Let me look toward lofty Asia, and the profound East for
a little while. There lies my great poem, as vast as the
Indian ocean, blessed, gilded with the sun, the book of
divine harmony wherein is no dissonance. A serene peace
reigns there, and in the midst of conflict an infinite
sweetness, a boundless fraternity, which spreads over all
living things, an ocean (without bottom or bound) of
love, of pity, of clemency."
10. Shri Aurobindo:
"Hinduism.....gave itself no name, because it set itself
no sectarian limits; it claimed no universal adhesion,
asserted no sole infallible dogma, set up no single
narrow path or gate of salvation; it was less a creed or
cult than a continuously enlarging tradition of the
Godward endeavor of the human spirit. An immense many-
sided and many staged provision for a spiritual self-
building and self-finding, it had some right to speak of
itself by the only name it knew, the eternal religion,
sanaatan dharm...."
11. Will Durant would like the West to learn from India,
tolerance and gentleness and love for all living things:
"Perhaps in return for conquest, arrogance and
spoliation, India will teach us the tolerance and
gentleness of the mature mind, the quiet content of the
unacquisitive soul, the calm of the understanding spirit,
and a unifying, a pacifying love for all living things."
12. Joseph Campbell:
"It is ironic that our great western civilization, which
has opened to the minds of all mankind the infinite
wonders of a universe of untold billions of galaxies
should be saddled with the tightest little cosmological
image known to mankind? The Hindus with their grandiose
Kalpas and their ideas of the divine power which is
beyond all human category (male or female). Not so alien
to the imagery of modern science that it could not have
been put to acceptable use.
"There is an important difference between the Hindu and
the Western ideas. In the Biblical tradition, God creates
man, but man cannot say that he is divine in the same
sense that the Creator is, where as in Hinduism, all
things are incarnations of that power. We are the sparks
from a single fire. And we are all fire. Hinduism
believes in the omnipresence of the Supreme God in every
individual. There is no 'fall'. Man is not cut off from
the divine. He requires only to bring the spontaneous
activity of his mind stuff to a state of stillness and he
will experience that divine principle with him."
13. Sir Monier-Williams:
The Hindus, according to him, were Spinozists more than
2,000 years before the advent of Spinoza, and Darwinians
many centuries before Darwin and Evolutionists many
centuries before the doctrine of Evolution was accepted
by scientists of the present age.
14. Carl Sagan, (the late scientist), asserts that the
dance of Nataraj signifies the cycle of evolution and
destruction of the cosmic universe (Big Bang Theory). "It
is the clearest image of the activity of God which any
art or religion can boast of."
15. Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan, a professor of Eastern
Religions at Oxford and later President of India:
"Hinduism is not just a faith. It is the union of reason
and intuition that cannot be defined but is only to be
experienced. Evil and error are not ultimate. There is no
Hell, for that means there is a place where God is not,
and there are sins which exceed his love."
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust
Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org
The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate
The terrorist mission of Jesus stated in the Christian bible:
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not so send
peace, but a sword.
"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the
daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in
law.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
- Matthew 10:34-36.
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catbr...@yahoo.com
Hinduism promotes a cruel class system that is enimical to equality and
individual liberty.
Cat
Maniyam
Deepavali has just passed. Please get enlightened. (Get the message!).
CASTE is a social disease made up by selfish individuals. It had
expanded over time and also had been helped in that process by
'self-motived' foreign influences. People still stick to them due to
those same selfish reasons or due to their lack of understanding of
the PHILOSOPHY (Get it?). If some want to stay in the so called LOWER
(my appologies for saying that word), they are merely pressured (and
also they LET themselves to be pressured) by those of the so called
(sorry, again) UPPER ranks. These people will NEVER see the TRUE
HAPPINESS and BEAUTY of the HINDU (SANATANA Dharma) Religion. The
freedom and joy it gives is still being clouded by newcomers who
'research' this religion.
RELIGION is RELIGION, SOCEITY is SOCEITY. We have to learn to
differentiate these two. Please do not BRAND the RELIGION by the way a
SOCEITY or individual or group of people behave. DISCOVER your(self)
and see what I mean.
Build up the COURAGE to accept that the PURANas and EPICS were all
'WRITTEN' by great persons to convey the LOVE of GOD and MANKIND's
LOVE FOR GOD. This can only come about by the understanding of the
MESSAGE in these works (aka ENLIGHTENMENT). Don't let this foundation
of HINDU religion be eroded by the DISEASE called CASTE.
I reproduce below what I have said in an earlier thread. Thanks for
your time and Best Wishes!
Maniyam (webmaster of http://kaumaram.com)
[ .... These scriptures and epics were written to convey (the
messages) of
the METHOD(s) for the AATMAN (individual soul) to be in UNION with the
PARA-ATMAN. (ie GOD). I dare say that the person who does not
understand this inner meaning is WRONG and a NON-HINDU. If he lives by
the the concept of 'scriptures/epics for application on soceity' then
he is doing a great disservice to HINDUISM. LORD KRISHNA says (to
Arjuna) in the GITA - "Understand the Thathva" - (ie philosophy), when
Arjuna has doubts before the war at Kurukshetra. This is the
FUNDAMENTAL philosophy of the GITA and other epics/scriptures. When
one applies these 'stories' to soceity - (sadly this has happened) -
divisions take birth, the TRUTH is covered up, and the selfish ones
(cheaters) thrive in the material world by degrading fellow humans.
Well they will not escape! These so-called 'caste makers' and those
who think that they are of 'higher birth', will have to come back to
LEARN!
Just for starters, the four divisions in the GITA (Brahmana,
Kshatriya, Vaishya and Sutra) are to be applied to the MIND (which you
'think' is you!) to realize the SOUL, as TEACH the MIND, PROTECT the
MIND, FEED the MIND and CLEAN the MIND. This will lead you to the next
step to REALIZE the SOUL. From there, you (the SOUL now!) learn to
COMMUNICATE with the PARAMAATMAN. The final stage is when you become
ONE with the PARAMAATMAN.
DO NOT classify anyone by their BIRTH or their JOB, STATUS etc.. ALL
SOULS are the same - they are from the SAME source.
If you do, then (sadly), you are living in the DARK! - Come out of it
!
.. When you live by FEAR, then you will FEAR anything written or said.
When you LEARN by experience and communicate with GOD, you will
become FEARLESS! ..
Best wishes!
OM SARAVANABAVAYA NAMAHA ! ....]
On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 06:50:22 GMT, use...@mantra.com (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
wrote:
>Caste
>
>Verdict from Belgium
>
>Last month, two ardent Hindus battled out the
>controversial pros and cons of caste. This month's
>assessment, from Europe, focuses on history and how jati
>and varn have, for the most part, helped rather than
>hurt Hinduism.
....................
Dr. Jai Maharaj
catbr...@yahoo.com posted:
> Any ass can become a "professor".
Most professors can tell the truth, but most asses can't realize it.
Now tell the world: are you such an ass?
catbr...@yahoo.com
>Most professors can tell the truth, but most asses can't realize it.
>Now tell the world: are you such an ass?
>Jai Maharaj
Do not attempt to evade the issue by a clumbsy ad hominem.
The caste system and the codes that keep the lower classes obedient are
an atrocity against humanity. Very much like the hideous practices of
the Muslims you so descry.
Religion is a prison in which the human mind is shackled.
And if humanity is to survive, these shackles must be broken.
Cat
ranjit_...@yahoo.com
Maniyam wrote:
> Fellow Hindus,
>
> Deepavali has just passed. Please get enlightened. (Get the message!).
>
> CASTE is a social disease made up by selfish individuals. It had
> expanded over time and also had been helped in that process by
> 'self-motived' foreign influences.
Which self-motivated foreign influences helped Manu to say these?
I - 91. One occupation only the lord prescribed to the shudra to
serve meekly even these other three castes.
IX - 317. A Brahmin, whether learned or ignorant, is a powerful
divinity.
X - 129. No collection of wealth must be made by a shudra even though
he be able to do it; for a shudra who has acquired wealth gives pain to
Brahmana.
hari....@indero.com
all the world will now want to rush out and start the indian caste system
in their countries, o what a thing of great beauty and logic and full of
the milk of human kindness. What evil force has kept this great truth
from the rest of the world?
ranjit_...@yahoo.com
hari.ku...@indero.com wrote:
> This is a great article, why didn't we know this before? With this truth
> all the world will now want to rush out and start the indian caste system
The article says the term caste is applied to two institutions. (The
Portuguese colonizers applied the term caste, "lineage, breed," to two
different Hindu institutions: jati and varn.) It can be *THE* Indian
caste system only it is applied to no more than a single institution.
> in their countries,
They are, if Jati is what you mean by the Indian caste system. See:
Canadian multiculturalism is fundamental to our belief that all
citizens are equal. Multiculturalism ensures that all citizens can keep
their identities, can take pride in their ancestry and have a sense of
belonging.
http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/progs/multi/what-multi_e.cfm
> o what a thing of great beauty and logic and full of
> the milk of human kindness.
Correct. See:
Acceptance gives Canadians a feeling of security and self-confidence,
making them more open to, and accepting of, diverse cultures.
http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/progs/multi/what-multi_e.cfm
> What evil force has kept this great truth
> from the rest of the world?
At one time, a predilection for monoculturalism kept multiculturalism
from the rest of the world. Now, nothing keeps it from the rest of the
world. See:
A UN-HABITAT report launched today lauds multiculturalism as an urban
phenomenon that should be celebrated, not feared.
http://www.unhabitat.org/report_celebrates.asp
Dr. Jai Maharaj
catbr...@yahoo.com posted:
> >> Any ass can become a "professor".
>
> >Most professors can tell the truth, but most asses can't realize it.
> >Now tell the world: are you such an ass?
> >Jai Maharaj
>
> Do not attempt to evade the issue by a clumbsy ad hominem.
Like the "clumbsy" one you attempted about the professor? Ha-ha-ha!
Maniyam
Kindly note that the word I used was 'motived' NOT 'motivated'.
Another phrase is 'had been helped in that process ' - this, I
referred to the 'expansion', not 'Manu'.
Please understand.
Manu, like most so-called 'seers', swamis, gurus and 'spiritual'
leaders, was (imho) a selfish person. I am yet to see or hear a
'spiritual' leader say boldy the real TRUTH and stand by it - ie
practice it. They want to keep their positions and support of
'wealthy' figures and dont want to spoil their 'good' life.
Ironically, several 'followers' of these 'heads' have 'high' regard
for them.
The only way a person can know the truth is to 'experience' it
him/herself. Very few religious heads dare to say that!
Sri Aurobindo was one! - Using his simple quote, I have experienced!
The spiritual freedom you get is uncomparable!
Once again, DO NOT take the scriptures literally. They are just guides
- apply it to your mind/soul and see what I mean. If you have been
victimised or suppressed by others seek 'spiritual help' WITHIN. He
will guide you, as HE did for me.
Thank you,
Maniyam (webmaster: http://kaumaram.com)
On 9 Nov 2005 12:05:49 -0800, "ranjit_...@yahoo.com"
ranjit_...@yahoo.com
> The only way a person can know the truth is to 'experience' it
> him/herself.
Can one know falsehood without experiencing it oneself?
> Very few religious heads dare to say that!
> Sri Aurobindo was one! - Using his simple quote, I have experienced!
Here is another simple quote: "The only way a person can know the
falsehood is to 'experience' it him/herself". Please use it to
experience falsehood and let me know how it is.
Maniyam
will see that. Likewise when you think of 'bad' things. What are you
for?
>Here is another simple quote: "The only way a person can know the
>falsehood is to 'experience' it him/herself". Please use it to
>experience falsehood and let me know how it is.
Why should I seek falsehood when I have experienced TRUTH? You find a
nice, comfortable road to drive on, will you waste your time searching
for a rough one?
Whatever you seek and receive - it will be karma - you have to face
the consequences. How to know what is good and what is bad? Start
'communicating' with God instead of staying immersed in scriptures and
rituals and the like. One thing you must remember all the time is when
you do (start) to communicate with God, it is just for your own self.
You have to stamp out hatred and anger first. Then (excess) desires,
ego etc..
God is Love - so say most religions - but how does that become true?
Only when you start Loving God (whatever FORM you are comfortable
with). Do not let anyone/book/scripture dictate (so-called) THE WAY.
There is no such thing.
I say these things thru my own experience and for example only. It
works!
On 10 Nov 2005 02:45:04 -0800, "ranjit_...@yahoo.com"
Dr. Jai Maharaj
Maniyam <kaum...@streamyx.com> posted:
>
> You get what you seek.. . .
Not necessarily. Often, many byproducts of a search
(call them "supplemental results") are received when
something is sought.
ranjit_...@yahoo.com
Maniyam wrote:
> You get what you seek. If you think and wish to see 'good' things you
> will see that. Likewise when you think of 'bad' things.
What good things would you see if you are dropped into a pigsty while
you're thinking and wishing to see good things?
> What are you for?
What is anything for? For example, what is Kanchenjunga for or what are
the Victoria falls for or what is the Moon for?
> >Here is another simple quote: "The only way a person can know the
> >falsehood is to 'experience' it him/herself". Please use it to
> >experience falsehood and let me know how it is.
>
> Why should I seek falsehood when I have experienced TRUTH?
I didn't say you should seek falsehood. I wanted to know how
experiencing falsehood differs from experiencing truth. Since I don't
have a clue as to how to experience truth or falsehood, I requested
you to experience falsehood and give a description of it.
> You find a
> nice, comfortable road to drive on, will you waste your time searching
> for a rough one?
>
> Whatever you seek and receive - it will be karma - you have to face
> the consequences. How to know what is good and what is bad? Start
> 'communicating' with God instead of staying immersed in scriptures and
> rituals and the like. One thing you must remember all the time is when
> you do (start) to communicate with God, it is just for your own self.
Communication is a two way street. What did God communicate to you the
last time you communicated with God?
> You have to stamp out hatred and anger first. Then (excess) desires,
> ego etc..
> God is Love - so say most religions - but how does that become true?
> Only when you start Loving God (whatever FORM you are comfortable
> with). Do not let anyone/book/scripture dictate (so-called) THE WAY.
> There is no such thing.
Is there is no such thing as THE WAY to communicate with God? Then, are
there many ways to communicate with God? If so, what are 3 of the ways?
Telephone, email and fax?
catbr...@yahoo.com
>Like the "clumbsy" one you attempted about the professor? Ha-ha-ha!
>Jai Maharaj
The fact remains that the caste system is evil. Women in India are
treated as second class citizens.
The whole system of dowry is oppressive and barbaric. The treatment of
the pariah caste is a social disgrace.
Cat
Dr. Jai Maharaj
catbr...@yahoo.com posted:
>
> Women in India are treated as second class citizens. . . .
Is that why a woman has already become the prime minister
in Bharat? How come a woman has not been able to rise to
such a position in the US? This is how women are treated
in the US:
FACTS ABOUT WOMEN IN THE U.S.
Compiled by the majority staff of the Senate
Judiciary Committee (July 31, 1990).
The most serious crimes against women are rising at a
significantly faster rate than total crimes: during the
past 10 years, rape rates have risen nearly four times
as fast as the total crime rate.
Every hour, 16 women confront rapists; a woman is raped
every 6 minutes.
Every 18 seconds, a woman is beaten; 3-4 million women
are battered each year.
Since 1974, the rate of assaults against young women
(20-24) has jumped almost 50%. For young men, it has
decreased.
Three out of four women will be victims of at least one
violent crime during their lifetimes.
A woman is 10 times more likely to be raped than to die
in a car crash.
Only 50% of rapes are ever reported; of those reported,
less than 40% result in arrest.
One third of all domestic violence cases, if reported,
would be charged as felony rape or felonious assault.
Each year, more than one million women seek medical
assistance for injuries caused by battering.
The crime rate against women in the United States is
significantly higher than in other countries -- the
United States has a rape rate that is 13 times higher
than England's, nearly 4 times higher than Germany's,
and more than 20 times higher than Japan's.
Of the American women alive today, 25 million either
have been, or will be, raped at least once during their
lives.
Last year, the number of women abused by their husbands
was greater than the number of women who got married.
In 1950, police caught 83% of all rapists; in 1988
police caught only 53% of them.
Nearly 50% of abusive husbands batter their wives when
they are pregnant, making them four times more likely to
bear infants of low birth weight.
Of all those arrested for major crimes -- murder, rape,
robbery, assault, burglary, larceny theft, motor vehicle
theft, and arson -- rapists are the most likely to
escape conviction.
If every woman victimized by domestic violence last year
were to join hands in a line, the string of people would
span from New York to Los Angeles and back again.
More than half of all homeless women are on the street
because they are fleeing domestic violence.
More than 40% of college women who have been raped say
that they expect to be raped again.
There were more women injured by rapists last year than
marines wounded by the enemy in all of World War II.
There are nearly three times as many animal shelters in
the United States as there are battered women's
shelters.
Although campus studies suggest that 1,275 women were
raped at America's 3 largest universities in 1989, only
3 of those rapes were reported to police.
1 out of every 7 women currently attending college has
been raped.
486,000 of the girls now attending high school will have
been raped before they graduate.
The average age of a rape victim is 18 1/2 years old.
Young women 16-19 years old are the most likely to be
raped.
57% of college rape victims are attacked by dates. Girls
raped before age 18 are least likely to report the
incident to the police.
Girls aged 12-15 are the most likely to be raped by
strangers.
Rape victims aged 12-19 are the least likely to receive
hospital care.
Since 1974, the rate of assaults against young women
(20-24) has jumped 48%. For men of the same age group,
it has decreased 12%.
Half the cases of women killed in this country are
victims of domestic violence.
Compiled by the majority staff of the Senate Judiciary
Committee (July 31, 1990).
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
Hindu Holocaust Museum
ranjit_...@yahoo.com
catbr...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> Any ass can become a "professor".
>
> >Most professors can tell the truth, but most asses can't realize it.
> >Now tell the world: are you such an ass?
> >Jai Maharaj
>
> Do not attempt to evade the issue by a clumbsy ad hominem.
> The caste system and the codes that keep the lower classes obedient are
> an atrocity against humanity.
What do the following titibits tell you?
http://www.vakindia.org/vikalp11.html
Hindu Paraiyars (whence pariah) have a goddess Mariamman and they don't
believe that Mariamman has asked them to be obedient to others. So, it
doesn't seem that Paraiyars believe in any codes that keep them
obedient to others. Poet-intellectual, Mangudikilar, writing in Tamil
over 1,500 years back, asserts that there are only four kinds of
flowers and four kinds of foods worth their names and goes on to insist
that there are no groups of people other than the following four
groups: Tutiyan, Paanan, Paraiyan and Katampan.
catbr...@yahoo.com
ranjit_...@yahoo.com wrote:
> catbr...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >> Any ass can become a "professor".
> >
> > >Most professors can tell the truth, but most asses can't realize it.
> > >Now tell the world: are you such an ass?
> > >Jai Maharaj
> >
> > Do not attempt to evade the issue by a clumbsy ad hominem.
> > The caste system and the codes that keep the lower classes obedient are
> > an atrocity against humanity.
>
> What do the following titibits tell you?
I am not exactly certain what you are trying to get at. I am not a
Christian. I am an agnostic. Like I've said; Hinduism is no better than
any other religion.
The caste system (pariahs), suttee, dowery, abortion based on sexual
selection, etc., are all perverted institutions. Nothing any of you can
say will convince me otherwise.
Cat
R
a Hindu myself, and I don't know many other Hindus who still abide by
the caste system.
Hinduism does not 'promote' anything. Now if you had any REAL Hindu
friends you would know that.
ranjit_...@yahoo.com
catbr...@yahoo.com wrote:
> The caste system (pariahs) is a perverted institution.
Let's try to put something else the same way you put the above:
The religion system (Jews) is a perverted institution.
In more detail, following your apparent line of reasoning:
Jews, having been identified as being of a different (and supposedly
mean/low) religion, were confined to ghettos, gassed, etc. Therefore,
religion is a perverted institution. QED
(ignoring the ethnic dimension of Judaism and just calling it a
religion for this illustration)
Likewise, we could observe goings on in N Ireland and claim:
The sect system (Northern Irish Catholics) is a perverted institution.
Dr. Homilete
> What do the following titibits tell you?
The word is "tidbits", sometimes erroneously written or spoken as "titbits".
"Titibits" sounds like something sexual!
ranjit_...@yahoo.com
Oh, dear! The insertion of the i was inadvertent. As for the spelling,
tidbit and titbit are alternate spellings; the former tends to be
British and the latter American.
titbit, US USUALLY tidbit
noun {C}
a small piece of interesting information, or a small item of
pleasant-tasting food:
- Our guide gave us some interesting titbits about the history of the
castle.
- This magazine is full of juicy titbits (= small pieces of interesting
information, especially about other people's private lives).
- Grandma always has a few titbits for the children if they're visiting
at lunchtime.
http://www.freesearch.co.uk/dictionary/titbit
ranjit_...@yahoo.com
Oh, dear! The insertion of the i was inadvertent. As for the spelling,
titbit and tidbit are alternate spellings; the former tends to be