A NEW BOOK ON ECKANKAR
neuralsurfer
former Eckist, who explores some of the history and teachings of
Eckankar.
Here is the link:
http://www.onepublishinginc.com
Al Radzik
DAVID LANE IS BACK...
Alf
Sam
neuralsurfer wrote in message ...
Cool.
This sounds good.
Thanks neuralsurfer.
Sam
gruendemann
<grin>
http://www.onepublishinginc.com/OtherPub.asp If you tire of his works,
I have some titles of other former members that also give insights into
how they managed to move forward with their lives.
Michael Basso
of utilizing the spiritual exercises of Eckankar ? There have been more than
500 studies on TM and other popular meditation practices, but nothing expect
some rather boring research (in my opinion) on the personality of a dead
guy & who he "took" info from.
To me that would be the crux of the matter, MUCH more so than rehashing the
fact that PT sumarized many sources as anyone who has read Letters to Gail
decades ago could have asertained. In those books PT acknowledged hundreds
of authors from Hubbard to Singh to Yogananda and many more.
Brian Fletcher
"Michael Basso" <mb1...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:b7nlqu$5kq$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net...
> Has anyone done any Significant empirical research on the validity &
results
> of utilizing the spiritual exercises of Eckankar ?
Then you will obtain empirical results. Important when one needs integration
with a group consciousness.
Part of the journey to self realisation is to become seperate from that very
consciousness.
Those who are still involved, are being pulled in two directions.. They
often go through a stage where the only way they feel stability is by
attacking the very group they are moving away from.
This usually results in moving to another "grouping" .
> There have been more than
> 500 studies on TM and other popular meditation practices, but nothing
expect
> some rather boring research (in my opinion) on the personality of a dead
> guy & who he "took" info from.
Surely you are not knocking 2003 years of ecumenical research ? ;-)))
>
> To me that would be the crux of the matter, MUCH more so than rehashing
the
> fact that PT sumarized many sources as anyone who has read Letters to Gail
> decades ago could have asertained. In those books PT acknowledged hundreds
> of authors from Hubbard to Singh to Yogananda and many more.
More the "crutch" of the matter ehh Mike ;-)
Brian
Michael Basso
> > Has anyone done any Significant empirical research on the validity &
> results
> > of utilizing the spiritual exercises of Eckankar ?
>
> Then you will obtain empirical results. Important when one needs
integration
> with a group consciousness.
>
> Part of the journey to self realisation is to become seperate from that
very
> consciousness.
**** And perhaps more important in ways, separate from seeking
separateness....
>
> Those who are still involved, are being pulled in two directions.. They
> often go through a stage where the only way they feel stability is by
> attacking the very group they are moving away from.
>
> This usually results in moving to another "grouping" .
>
>
>
> > There have been more than
> > 500 studies on TM and other popular meditation practices, but nothing
> expect
> > some rather boring research (in my opinion) on the personality of a
dead
> > guy & who he "took" info from.
>
> Surely you are not knocking 2003 years of ecumenical research ? ;-)))
**** Not at all & I was being a be facisious, but just sharing another
viewpoint, including my own personal bordom on the subject.
Siva Ri
high-level insider that will knock another big chunk of credibility
off the old Eckankar block. His high visibility, RESA experience,
closeness to Darwin and Harold, and wide respect among Eckists will
carry a lot of weight with many followers, not to mention his razor
sharp Harvard Law School ability to present the case against Eckankar.
Look for a stampede for the exits from Eckankar that will be the
biggest since the early Eigthies. Doug will have his hands full trying
to come up with another book of apologetics to counter Ford's book.
Unfortunately for the apologists, this time the author knows the
insider view as well or better than Doug.
Brian Fletcher
"Siva Ri" <siv...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:a0a906c9.0304...@posting.google.com...
How many interpretations does it take to change the value of first hand
experience?
Harvard Law School to boot. The intellectualls will sure to be impressed
(until they actually experience first hand)....
Brian
M
"Sean" <lifeis...@earth.org> wrote in message news:<Aw7oa.17770$1s1.2...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com>...
> Dive into the Internet with your Googles on!
> Unlike power, truth seeks to come out. It does not hide, it is
> hidden by those wishing it to remain concealed. Truth and power
> are tools to be used. Not ends in themselves. (Power can cover
> or uncover truth;...truth can only uncover power; Power can lead
> to truth...Truth always leads to power. Wisdom is knowing how
> to use both).
>
> Robert Morningsky - Hopi/Apache Indian
This is the only quote I saw that has any relevance to a.r.e. and
Eckankar. Especially,
"Unlike power, truth seeks to come out. It does not hide, it is hidden
by those wishing it to remain concealed."
Harold has the power and hides the truth about Eckankar for his own
selfish purposes. Ergo, he lacks wisdom and is disqualified as a true
teacher, that is, a teacher of Truth. M.
Thanks for posting a remarkable quote that makes the Truth of this so
clear.
For further insights into the concealment of Truth by Eckankar read
"Confessions of a God Seeker: A Journey To Higher Consciousness"
by Ford Johnson
The Eckankar Regime's worst nightmare has come to pass! This book will
make David Lane's revelations seem tame in comparison. I can almost
hear the rats desperately scuttling behind the walls, frantically
wondering how best to do damage control. Will Harold come out of
hiding, literally and figuratively? Doug, are you there? <ggg> Your
Mission has just taken on critical import as an WMD has just been
dropped on your beloved Eckankar...M.
gruendemann
mighty big statement... sivari. Let's wait and see whom among you
actually reads all 547 + pages to figure out what there is to be taken
from this situation. In light of the fact that most of the detractors
can't focus beyond the last tid bit of gossip... well. :-)
Eckankar has had many members who decided to fly the coop with personal
asperations. Just look around you at your band of merry men here to see
what that's about. I'll wait to see what Ford has to say and his
reasoning for saying it. Then I'll decide what to make of it. Til then,
at least I know how to use anticipation to my advantage! It's a
knack.... <smile>
gruendemann
The dregs have spoken.... it must be so, hey?
M wrote:
<snip>
gruendemann
worship with the detractors? A harvard degree no doubt! A new hero to
champion! A new leader of the downtrodden! A new Master, apparently!
<smile> Wow..... moments like this do bring a higher clarity of our
surroundings, at least. ;-> Especially when this is all based on nothing
but pre-release advertising. <sigh>
Al Radzik
Eckists) to already dismiss the damaging facts the book may present?
I am looking forward to the backpedalling and spin doctoring we will see when Ford's book gets out and exposes Eckankar
as a first class fraud preying on the gullible.
I'm sure it's on Harold's list of "Must Read For 2003"<GG>
Alf
gruendemann
as of yet. I realize you're chomping at the bit here alf, but til the
book comes out it's just speculation and drooling. So keep an open
mind.... oh wait, I forgot for a moment who it is I'm talking to. Never
Mind! :-)
Sam
Al Radzik wrote in message <3EA19262...@rcn.com>...
>And did anyone else notice that the impending release of the book has
caused cher to position herself (as well as other
>Eckists) to already dismiss the damaging facts the book may present?
>I am looking forward to the backpedalling and spin doctoring we will see
when Ford's book gets out and exposes Eckankar
>as a first class fraud preying on the gullible.
>I'm sure it's on Harold's list of "Must Read For 2003"<GG>
>
>Alf
I've ordered a copy of this book, but won't bother commenting about it at
A.R.E..
I think it will be an interesting read.
eckboogieman
Who knows. Its a hard knock life. I think Mister Johnson is smart
enough to skirt what ever issues might arise with Eckankar to avoid
lawsuits. Cults today have lots of money to protect themselves and
the trademarks they have registered while crying that they are so
small and need to be protected.Especially since they are not financially
accountable to anyone. The book has to sell to other than eckists and
ex eckists to be a financial success ,if all it has is some dirt it wont
make it, I'm thinking, beyond a quick first printing.
This places a chill on people who would write about organizations
with some expose I think perhaps its a spiritual memoir of his own
experiences primarily or theres going to be quite a shitstorm.
Nothing
could or can end eckankar it exists because people still need it for
whatever reasons. Eckankar couldn't even end Darwins career as a
spiritual teacher, downsized him but he still kept on with his own org.
Michael Basso
folks will polarize for or against a book or author in total as thouugh
either could ever be the "be all and end all of truth".
The truth will exist and always has with or without ANY author, book or
external system of ANY kind.
My feeling on books is hey read any that you feel like and if you learn
something useful then perhaps is was worth the investment of time ...
Cheers and Happy Easter if it applies !
Michael~
Sam
eckboogieman wrote in message ...
What I meant was that I'll read it and take from it what applies to my
spiritual journey and won't worry about that which doesn't. That's how I go
about it with all books I read. It just seems pointless to comment too much
here anymore, only to get spit on.
It will probably give some more details about the early days of Eckankar, so
I'm purchasing it for its potential historical value more than anything -
not to make a case either for against.
You're right, boogie, it's probably a spiritual memoir of his own spiritual
experiences. In doing research and formulating ideas on how I would write
about my time in Eckankar for my autobiography, I decided to never mention
Eckankar at all. That would be the case even if I still were.
Well, the good news is that God is alive and well, the Holy Spirit is the
Main Thing, and if people wish to defend a teaching by law suits, let em'
have it. I couldn't give a fiddler's fart.
Sam
Sam
Cheers and a Happy Easter to you too.
Sam
Michael Basso wrote in message ...
Michael Basso
Brian Fletcher
others experience) is still wondering around the mental world, and the ups
and downs that are part of the landscape.
Brian
"Al Radzik" <alfi...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:3EA19262...@rcn.com...
Al Radzik
Brian Fletcher wrote:
> Anyone who expacts to be changed by anything they read (by definition.....of
> others experience) is still wondering around the mental world, and the ups
> and downs that are part of the landscape.
>
I worry about the "mental world" all the time, Brian. I worry about you. I worry
about cher, Harold.......I worry that you might get your hands on some young
person and suck them into the vortex of deceit called Eckankar and influence
them with your robotic and cultic mindset.
Other than that, I don't worry about much........except lunch.....
Tata!
Alf
gruendemann
All that worry and nothing you can do about it! Sounds like neurosis to
me!
eckboogieman
> spiritual journey and won't worry about t which doesn't. That's how I go
> about it with all books I read. It just seems pointless to comment too much
> here anymore, only to get spit on.
>
> It will probably give some more details about the early days of Eckankar, so
> I'm purchasing it for its potential historical value more than anything -
> not to make a case either for against.
>
> You're right, boogie, it's probably a spiritual memoir of his own spiritual
> experiences. In doing research and formulating ideas on how I would write
> about my time in Eckankar for my autobiography, I decided to never mention
> Eckankar at all. That would be the case even if I still were.
>
> Well, the good news is that God is alive and well, the Holy Spirit is the
> Main Thing, and if people wish to defend a teaching by law suits, let em'
> have it. I couldn't give a fiddler's fart.
>
> Sam
Very wise posting, Sam, thanks.
I've not been around here so long but its already helped with detachment.
Todays posting is forgotten tomorrow unless its really good
and reprinted. Actual spit cannot come through the computer, that
techological advance hasn't happened yet and the virtual doesn't matter.
See this cult will have it both ways, the teachings come from the
astral library but the poor defrocked LEM couldn't even use the
trademarked terms of his teacher.
Al Radzik
gruendemann wrote:
Oh I do believe that newbies read this newsgroup. That way, they can see both sides.
It's a very telling story here. Those pure seeking souls reading your arrogance and
condescension surely get a taste of how Eckankar can work for them. You are a shining
example of the Sugmad at work. It can save them a lot of misspent time and money once
they get a dose of cher.
BTW, I am doing my part as well as others.
And what's this presumption about neurosis? Me thinks you project some of your own
mental anomalies here.
Look in the mirror cher. What do you REALLY see?
Alf
gruendemann
Well add it to the list of demonological devices you and your group
associate with me. I'm sure it'll fit well in the stack of my dead
husband, my weight, my status as a housewife or not, my work record or
career status and my choice of religions. I doubt one more will matter!
:-) Unlike you, I don't take these things to heart.
I do hope that those newbies read the messages of your focus on my
sexuality. I'm sure that won you many converts in the morality column!
:-)
Sam
Detatchment is the key here.
The good you do will be forgotten tomorrow. Do good anyway.
The biggest men and women with the biggest ideas can be shot down by the
smallest men and women with the smallest minds. Think big anyway.....
People favour underdogs but favour only top dogs. Fight for a few underdogs
anyway....
People need help but may attack you if you do help them. Help people anyway.
Give the world the best and you'll get kicked in the teeth. Give the world
the best you have anyway.
These quotes are from "Any - the Paradoxial Commandments" by Kent M. Keith.
Cheers
Sam
Sam
Sam wrote in message ...
>
Sorry....
typo corrections...
>These quotes are from "Anyway - the Paradoxical Commandments" by Kent M.
Keith.
This is a small but really really powerful book.
Sam
Brian Fletcher
I suggest you look at some recent information about projected images, and
how they become "real". You know, self fulfilling prophecies etc.
Almost common language these days.
No worries.
Brian
"Al Radzik" <alfi...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:3EA2CAED...@rcn.com...
Brian Fletcher
"gruendemann" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3EA2D1CA...@worldnet.att.net...
I wonder if he worries about lunch "while" he's eating it?
Bad for the digestion. ;-)
Brian
Sharon2000
> > >>
> > >> I've ordered a copy of this book, but won't bother commenting about
> > >> it at A.R.E..
> > >> I think it will be an interesting read.
> > >
> > >
> > >Who knows. Its a hard knock life. I think Mister Johnson is smart
> > >enough to skirt what ever issues might arise with Eckankar to avoid
> > >lawsuits. Cults today have lots of money to protect themselves and
> > >the trademarks they have registered while crying that they are so
> > >small and need to be protected.Especially since they are not
> > >financially accountable to anyone. The book has to sell to other than
> > >eckists and ex eckists to be a financial success ,if all it has is
> > >some dirt it wont make it, I'm thinking, beyond a quick first
> > >printing.
Well, it'll be interesting to see what Ford Johnson has to say - and I
think it's hilarious how once one leaves the cult, how things change....
<ggg>
He was the main speaker at the PA state seminar I attended back in '97 -
still have the transcripts & notes...
> > > This places a chill on people who would write about organizations
> > >with some expose I think perhaps its a spiritual memoir of his own
> > >experiences primarily or theres going to be quite a shitstorm.
> > > Nothing
> > >could or can end eckankar it exists because people still need it for
> > >whatever reasons. Eckankar couldn't even end Darwins career as a
> > >spiritual teacher, downsized him but he still kept on with his own
> > >org.
> >
Once a cult leader, always a cult leader!! Actually, I feel sorry for
Darwin - I don't think the man is to0 bright, and I don't think he has the
vaguest notion of anything that's even vaguely "spiritual" or ethical or
anything.
> > What I meant was that I'll read it and take from it what applies to
> > mytha spiritual journey and won't worry about t which doesn't. That's
> > how I go about it with all books I read. It just seems pointless to
> > comment too much here anymore, only to get spit on.
>
Looking at the bibliography, I'm hoping the book has more documented
plagiarism - for example, from Paul Brunton's books.
> > It will probably give some more details about the early days of
> > Eckankar, so I'm purchasing it for its potential historical value more
> > than anything - not to make a case either for against.
> >
I'd love to read the book, but to be honest, right now my book budget is
maxxed out - and his book is more than $25. So I hope those who buy it
post lots of quotes!!
> > You're right, boogie, it's probably a spiritual memoir of his own
> > spiritual experiences. In doing research and formulating ideas on how
> > I would write about my time in Eckankar for my autobiography, I decided
> > to never mention Eckankar at all. That would be the case even if I
> > still were.
> >
> > Well, the good news is that God is alive and well, the Holy Spirit is
> > the Main Thing, and if people wish to defend a teaching by law suits,
> > let em' have it. I couldn't give a fiddler's fart.
> >
> > Sam
>
It's hard keeping track of those ">'s" and who said what.
Shove the "Main Thing" up your butt, Sam. E-kult is a bunch of bullshit,
but...well, we all know how you enjoy sucking up to Nazis.
> Very wise posting, Sam, thanks.
> I've not been around here so long but its already helped with
> detachment. Todays posting is forgotten tomorrow unless its really good
> and reprinted.
You'd be surprised what people remember, Mike.
I have no use for Sam, because I'm disgusted with phoney suck-ups.
>Actual spit cannot come through the computer, that
> techological advance hasn't happened yet and the virtual doesn't matter.
I've found that giving the monitor the finger works quite well, especially
when I put some feeling into it, and send my disgust on "the inner". <ggg>
Not as good as "real" spit, but it'll have to do for now....
> See this cult will have it both ways, the teachings come from the
> astral library but the poor defrocked LEM couldn't even use the
> trademarked terms of his teacher.
When I joined, I asked about Darwin - I'd gotten his bio from the library
and silly me, I fell for it - well, when I asked, the HI just changed the
subject.
It'll be interesting to see the effects of Ford Johnson's book. I reserve
judgment until I've actually seen it - don't know how long it'll take the
library to get it.
I had to laugh, though, reading "Dr." Stephen Brown's comments about
Johnson at the Yahoo "goldenheartsofeckankar" forum. Honestly, this guy is
such a *perfect* example of a brainwashed fanatic cultpuppy...I'm reserving
judgment on the book until I see it. I hope the man has the balls to be
*really* honest, and spill his guts with the *truth* about this stupid
cult!!!
Anyway...forget the cyberspit, Mike... try the cyberfinger! <ggg>
Hugs,
Sharon
--
FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT ECKANKAR, SEE:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankartruth/links
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankartruth/files
Michael
Arrogance and condescension... And Alf is accusing others of this, hey?
Pot - kettle - black...
AND he knows it!! <G>
But what can anyone say... the only half-reasonable detractor left, so we
have to appreciate him for it. Sad, very sad, but true!
Alf... I have some numbers on my wall... Can you guess what they are??
Love
Michael
>
gruendemann
LOL........
Ken
"gruendemann" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote ...
>
> Interesting the way some people behave when they think they smell blood.
> The dregs have spoken.... it must be so, hey?
What I find interesting is that ALL of the critics and detractors here on
this n.g. have been busy telling everyone what this book means, both for
the individual and Eckankar as a whole. Not one of them has pointed
out that each of us, if we're interested, has to read it for ourselves and
use our own discernment to make the kinds of personal decisions called
for.
It's in the small things that people do and say, where one can see who is
attempting to lead towards truth, and who is attempting to mold and
shape reality for others. Sheeple, please stand in line over there to be
shorn and have your opinions molded for you. There's no charge at all
and the shearers tell me it's quite fun! ;-)
Siva Ri
> "Sam" <S...@churchofa.r.e.net> wrote in message news:<yFgoa.1400$qh.1...@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>...
> > Al Radzik wrote in message <3EA19262...@rcn.com>...
> > >And did anyone else notice that the impending release of the book has
> caused cher to position herself (as well as other
> > >Eckists) to already dismiss the damaging facts the book may present?
> > >I am looking forward to the backpedalling and spin doctoring we will see
> when Ford's book gets out and exposes Eckankar
> > >as a first class fraud preying on the gullible.
> > >I'm sure it's on Harold's list of "Must Read For 2003"<GG>
> > >
> > >Alf
> >
> > I've ordered a copy of this book, but won't bother commenting about it at
> > A.R.E..
> > I think it will be an interesting read.
>
>
> Who knows. Its a hard knock life. I think Mister Johnson is smart
> enough to skirt what ever issues might arise with Eckankar to avoid
> lawsuits. Cults today have lots of money to protect themselves and
> the trademarks they have registered while crying that they are so
> small and need to be protected.Especially since they are not financially
> accountable to anyone.
>
sure he has both the know how and the means to handle any Eckankar
attempts to silence him through lawsuits.
>
> The book has to sell to other than eckists and
> ex eckists to be a financial success ,if all it has is some dirt it wont
> make it, I'm thinking, beyond a quick first printing.
>
profit. He seems mainly interested in self-publishing his story to
make a point.
>
> This places a chill on people who would write about organizations
> with some expose I think perhaps its a spiritual memoir of his own
> experiences primarily or theres going to be quite a shitstorm.
> Nothing
> could or can end eckankar it exists because people still need it for
> whatever reasons. Eckankar couldn't even end Darwins career as a
> spiritual teacher, downsized him but he still kept on with his own org.
>
long-time devlotee of group leader Elizabeth Claire Prophet of Church
Universal and Triumphant wrote a well-documented ripping expose of her
fraud, manipulation, and hypocrasy. Quite a few followers left, but
there is always a die-hard core of true believers that never let go of
the security blanket. Even as she fades into the sunset with
Alzheimers, she has a little cadre of core believers who keep the
spark going. The same kind of insider expose happened with Sai Baba
(who did rampant child molestation), Rajneesh (who had a list of
crimes and misdemeanors and sleazy behavior), and Adi Da (highly
abusive and perverse behavior revealed). These self-proclaimed
incarnations of God just kept right on going with their diminished but
clueless devotees. I think we can rest assured that the local A.R.E.
Eckankar support group will hang in there no matter what dirt gets
revealed. A fraudulent Paul Twitchell, a clueless Darwin Gross, and a
hypocritical self-serving Harold Klemp will do nothing to tarnish them
in the eyes of the faithful.
gruendemann
seeing what would happen if Ford actually brings up some spiritual idea
that he sees as a signficant break with the teachings, and how that idea
might be used by others! Now instead of his work in such a case being an
expose, it might be the core idea of his own spiritual path which he is
introducing. Where will these detractors be, if this is the supposition
that wins the day? Hmmmm? Another disappointment at the hands of
Eckankar? Oh my, I don't think I could stand being their midst once
again, as they gnash their teeth and wail over the injustice of it all.
<smile>
The fact of the matter is this.... the book isn't in print yet! You can
say what you will about what it will mean to the detractor community,
but at least have the dignity to read the damned thing first! I mean
really.... no one here believes you can read tea leaves either. <sigh>
Al Radzik
gruendemann wrote:
You're the soul traveler, tell me what color my house is. Can't?
Oh well, so much for soul travel.
It's a crock of shit.
Alf
Michael
The only curious thing about Alf, Brian... Is that he is a Catholic who from
what I understand never actually joned Eckankar, and never really had
anything to do with it.
Yet he "worries" about it's effect? That sounds just a tad fundamentalist,
as I read it... Added to his apparent love for Sharon, and his advertised
delight when he thought he had managed to get another ECKist off the
teaching.... Well... One wonders about the agenda being really to create
agnst than any personal conviction...
Mind you... He still provides the best argument ... which is really an ad
for how poor our other detractors are <G>
Love
Michael
"Brian Fletcher" <bri...@iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:3ea35215$0$11...@echo-01.iinet.net.au...
M
> The only curious thing about Alf, Brian... Is that he is a Catholic who from
> what I understand never actually joned Eckankar, and never really had
> anything to do with it.
>
> Yet he "worries" about it's effect? That sounds just a tad fundamentalist,
> as I read it... Added to his apparent love for Sharon, and his advertised
> delight when he thought he had managed to get another ECKist off the
> teaching.... Well... One wonders about the agenda being really to create
> agnst than any personal conviction...
>
> Mind you... He still provides the best argument ... which is really an ad
> for how poor our other detractors are <G>
>
> Love
>
> Michael
Calling you dull is a gross underestimation of just how tedious you
are. You have the personality of a damp sponge and the appeal of a
moldy sweat sock. Looking at you, Darwin would NOT be pleased to see
how inefficiently evolution sometimes works. Maybe you wouldn't come
across as such a cult ass-sucking mental midget if you didn't have
that botched back street lobotomy that left you that crisscrossed
shoelace scar on your forehead.
Big Love, M.
Michael Basso
neuralsurfer <neural...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d975b1d5.03041...@posting.google.com...
@aloha.net Rich
"Ken" <kah...@nospam.att.net> wrote
> What I find interesting is that ALL of the critics and detractors
here on
> this n.g. have been busy telling everyone what this book means, both
for
> the individual and Eckankar as a whole.
And that, having not even read the book yet! LOL
> Not one of them has pointed
> out that each of us, if we're interested, has to read it for
ourselves and
> use our own discernment to make the kinds of personal decisions
called
> for.
What... you want them to be objective?;-)
I'm not surprised at this since for the most part these are the same
people who have told us they read the Eckankar books without much
personal discernment... and now they blame Eckankar and it authors.
> It's in the small things that people do and say, where one can see
who is
> attempting to lead towards truth, and who is attempting to mold and
> shape reality for others. Sheeple, please stand in line over there
to be
> shorn and have your opinions molded for you. There's no charge at
all
> and the shearers tell me it's quite fun! ;-)
What's the count now? This is at least the seventh or eight spin off
of Eckankar that I am aware of... No doubt there will be more that
gather their own flocks. I herd that it is up to the individual to be
the one to pull the wool from over their own eye. Baaaaat, ewe don't
want to rely on my hairsay.<G>
` o
|
~/|
_/ |\
/ | \
-/ | \
_ /____|___\_
(___________/
Rich~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Sailing the CyberSea~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Michael
"M" <mari...@wrongmail.com> wrote in message
news:363f2e6.03042...@posting.google.com...
To quote:
> > Mind you... He (Alf) still provides the best argument ... which is
really an ad
> > for how poor our other detractors are <G>
I guess you really have to be Gary, or someone similar, pretending to be an
idiot. You are doing an excellent job.
Please continue, as you will help someone who is uncertain about the
teaching which way to go. Thanks!
Love
Michael
Michael
"Rich" <rsmith @aloha.net> wrote in message
news:b84md...@enews3.newsguy.com...
>
> "Ken" <kah...@nospam.att.net> wrote
>
> > What I find interesting is that ALL of the critics and detractors
> here on
> > this n.g. have been busy telling everyone what this book means, both
> for
> > the individual and Eckankar as a whole.
>
> And that, having not even read the book yet! LOL
For some reason I am reminded of Colleen... We point out that many of her so
called complaints have been very clearly dealt with in a book, and she says
she doesn't NEED to read it...
Them damn BOAS got 'em... <G>
>
>
> > Not one of them has pointed
> > out that each of us, if we're interested, has to read it for
> ourselves and
> > use our own discernment to make the kinds of personal decisions
> called
> > for.
>
> What... you want them to be objective?;-)
Objectionable ... yes... Objective... no
Let's not ask for miracles <G>
> I'm not surprised at this since for the most part these are the same
> people who have told us they read the Eckankar books without much
> personal discernment... and now they blame Eckankar and it authors.
I suspect the real issue with many of the detractors.. not all, but many, is
that they never really got an understanding of the natural disciplines of
the spiritual life, and instead ran on the programmed response patterns of
what their parents and childhood religions told them.
When it came to facing the Censor and hoping over that obstacle, it wasn't
on in this lifetime, and a residual anger leaves them wanting to jump the
huirdle... but unable to go back for another try...
Thus they come here trying to knock the hurdle down, calling it the
teaching, the org, the whatever... When it is simply themselves that is the
issue.
And of course... Eckists get blamed for that as well! <G>
>
>
> > It's in the small things that people do and say, where one can see
> who is
> > attempting to lead towards truth, and who is attempting to mold and
> > shape reality for others. Sheeple, please stand in line over there
> to be
> > shorn and have your opinions molded for you. There's no charge at
> all
> > and the shearers tell me it's quite fun! ;-)
>
> What's the count now? This is at least the seventh or eight spin off
> of Eckankar that I am aware of... No doubt there will be more that
> gather their own flocks. I herd that it is up to the individual to be
> the one to pull the wool from over their own eye. Baaaaat, ewe don't
> want to rely on my hairsay.<G>
>
Baaaaaahhhhh baaaahhh...
Sheeps in wolves clothing, I say <G>
Love
Michael
@aloha.net Rich
own discriptions that this 567!! page book is about _way_ more than
Eckankar.
I don't really expect any new Truth from Ford that is not already
taught within the works of Eckankar. I hope I am surprised in that
though, at least with a _differnt_ way of viewing it. I do expect
within a good story of his personal spiritual journey, some new
'truth' about dirt like money, personality, organizational and assumed
intentions issues used to discredit Eckankar that will be followed up
with an offering of a 'new' and ~better~ approach to Truth. I'd bet
there'll be a new master in the mix too.
It is interesting though. Not that this might be the case with Ford,
but it brings to mind what I have often seen in this NG from those who
did gain spiritual insight and experience thru Eckankar, or even other
teachings, and then left touting a better way and all the problems
with Eckankar. They forget that their diligent spiritual work over
many years and lifetimes did not come so easy, and that it couldn't be
have been 'short-cutted'. Yet they explain the Truth as they have
come to Know it Now, as if others need not go thru the different
necessary stages/SOC's that are traversed on the true spiritual path.
It's my experience that each Soul has unique steps and an individual
ordering of these. Call it something else, paint it different colors
but, as Eckankar teaches, all of those duality views must eventually
be put aside as the responsibility comes home to the individual Soul
sans masters and teachings.
FuzyWahz
All this, and he hasn't even read the book !
The simple truth is that Eckankar does not contain in it's membership
roles even a small percentage of those who were members during Paul's
time. They've virtually all moved on to greener, more honest,
pastures. Some will write about their disillusioning experience with
Eckankar, most won't. One of the biggest problems with Eckankar (and,
for that matter, with any "path" that claims it's membership for life)
is that it never self-destructs. All forms worth their salt will beg
for destruction once they've served the purpose of awakening. Anything
less is self-serving survival instinct and has nothing to do with
freedom and every thing to do with name, fame, and financial security.
Eckankar and such-kind keeps their adherents trapped in the
bureaucratic and financial goo that all institutions must generate as
by-product. So, the members become marketers, the faithful become
politicians and spin meisters, and the Rich get Richier and Richier,
eh Rich? (GG)
So Rich, are your batteries recharged to charge yet again into the
fray to do battle with the infidel and the apostate? Did you get
sufficient ego stroking up there on stage to renew your dedication and
fierce loyalty to all things Ecky? Do you feel like SOMEBODY, son?
(GGG)
FUZY WAHZ
WASN'T
WAS HE?
Bee
Sh! You shouldn't be talking about that time we all met previous to this
post group in the "rat house" .. What about your penis enlargement? Did it
go down well? Was it the right size?
Never mind .. We were all in there for our very own personal reasons <g>
Mine? I was in ther to try and learn how to shut down the pictures like the
ones Zi am getting about you now <g. You scruff ball of hhh mmm! You know
<g>
Of course, the lobotamy went well from what I can gather ...Michael's
lobotomy went well and so did your boyfriend's .. what was his name?
Doesn't matter .. Can't remember ...
Anyway it's good to see that you don't forget those people you did time
with . <g> I didn't think that you would talk about it on A.r.e though
Gary .. I mean M ...Big love to you ...Bee!
@aloha.net Rich
"Michael" <spl...@plat.org> wrote
> I suspect the real issue with many of the detractors.. not all, but
many, is
> that they never really got an understanding of the natural
disciplines of
> the spiritual life, and instead ran on the programmed response
patterns of
> what their parents and childhood religions told them.
>
> When it came to facing the Censor and hoping over that obstacle, it
wasn't
> on in this lifetime, and a residual anger leaves them wanting to
jump the
> huirdle... but unable to go back for another try...
>
> Thus they come here trying to knock the hurdle down, calling it the
> teaching, the org, the whatever... When it is simply themselves that
is the
> issue.
And that's true for everyone, yes? The issue is seeing the true Self.
Soul issues everything that comes into It's sphere of experience...
the disciplines or lack thereof, the programs, the Censor, all the
bodies' obstacles, even the dozer sliding down the slippery slope of
responsibility. ;-)
@aloha.net Rich
"FuzyWahz" <Fuzy...@earthlink.net> wrote
> "Rich" <rsmith @aloha.net> wrote
That's it? No comment on content? He skips any meaning and goes
straight into full on ad hominem... :-/
Apparently he ignored what I wrote and confused opinion with facts.
Unlike all the detractors who stated unequivocally as fact what the
book is about, the impact it will have and/or how Eckists will
respond, I merely said what my personal expectations were. The latter
part was a different issue that might not be the case with Ford.
> The simple truth is that Eckankar does not contain in it's
membership
> roles even a small percentage of those who were members during
Paul's
> time. They've virtually all moved on to greener, more honest,
> pastures.
So he believes, but I saw dozens of them last weekend at a relatively
small gathering... and I don't claim to know them all.
> Some will write about their disillusioning experience with
> Eckankar, most won't.
Because they take responsibility for their own perceptions, are not
bitter back biters, or have actually moved on in a positive manner?
> One of the biggest problems with Eckankar (and,
> for that matter, with any "path" that claims it's membership for
life)
> is that it never self-destructs.
LOL That's a problem? Fuzy thinking here. I wonder why he believes
that any religious organization intends to self-destruct. (For the new
person's info: Eckankar does not 'claim it's membership for life'.
Fact is quite the opposite. Members must reaffirm their willingsness
to remain members every year. If they don't, their records will be
expunged after five years)
> All forms worth their salt will beg
> for destruction once they've served the purpose of awakening.
Eckankar teaches that it is the individual that is responsible for
tearing away their own illusions. The organization continues to serve
in assisting those that have not yet come to that awakening.
> Anything
> less is self-serving survival instinct and has nothing to do with
> freedom
Organizations are not living things and therefore don't have any
instinct or sense of freedom. Lots of fuzy logic from this person.
> and every thing to do with name, fame, and financial security.
> Eckankar and such-kind keeps their adherents trapped in the
> bureaucratic and financial goo that all institutions must generate
as
> by-product. So, the members become marketers, the faithful become
> politicians and spin meisters, and the Rich get Richier and Richier,
> eh Rich? (GG)
Nope, not true at all. Talk about a fuzy perception spin meister.<g>
Truth is members don't sell anything, they are free to do what they
chose, and Eckankar requires no money from them.
> So Rich, are your batteries recharged to charge yet again into the
> fray to do battle with the infidel and the apostate?
The battle is only his illusion.
> Did you get
> sufficient ego stroking up there on stage
I wasn't on stage.
> to renew your dedication and
> fierce loyalty to all things Ecky? Do you feel like SOMEBODY, son?
> (GGG)
My dedication and loyalty is to personal connection with Spirit.
I take it all the above suppositions were actually his mis-takes.
I'll deal with my own challenges of which he clearly demonstrates that
he doesn't have a clue.
However, even though he avoided addressing what I wrote, he actually
exemplified my point as one who fixated on "dirt like money,
personality, organizational and assumed intentions issues used to
discredit Eckankar". He got 100% on those in just one post!<G> As to
the rest, there is eternity to pursue "diligent spiritual work".
Michael
>
> "Michael" <spl...@plat.org> wrote
>
> > I suspect the real issue with many of the detractors.. not all, but
> many, is
> > that they never really got an understanding of the natural
> disciplines of
> > the spiritual life, and instead ran on the programmed response
> patterns of
> > what their parents and childhood religions told them.
> >
> > When it came to facing the Censor and hoping over that obstacle, it
> wasn't
> > on in this lifetime, and a residual anger leaves them wanting to
> jump the
> > huirdle... but unable to go back for another try...
> >
> > Thus they come here trying to knock the hurdle down, calling it the
> > teaching, the org, the whatever... When it is simply themselves that
> is the
> > issue.
>
> And that's true for everyone, yes? The issue is seeing the true Self.
>
> Soul issues everything that comes into It's sphere of experience...
> the disciplines or lack thereof, the programs, the Censor, all the
> bodies' obstacles, even the dozer sliding down the slippery slope of
> responsibility. ;-)
There is a double pun on that "dozer" quip...
The problem with that particular Dozer was that it was UNABLE to response...
And so, in the double bind of logic, one who is unable to respond, cannot be
response-able ... But deeper yet we find the response is a lack of
response... Which can be VERY responsible, with Dozers ... <G>
Love
Michael
@aloha.net Rich
"Michael" <spl...@plat.org> wrote
> "Rich" <rsmith @aloha.net> wrote
> > Soul issues everything that comes into It's sphere of
experience...
> > the disciplines or lack thereof, the programs, the Censor, all the
> > bodies' obstacles, even the dozer sliding down the slippery slope
of
> > responsibility. ;-)
>
> There is a double pun on that "dozer" quip...
>
> The problem with that particular Dozer was that it was UNABLE to
response...
> And so, in the double bind of logic, one who is unable to respond,
cannot be
> response-able ... But deeper yet we find the response is a lack of
> response... Which can be VERY responsible, with Dozers ... <G>
That's pushing it a bit...;-) but if true, maybe it's next
incarnation will be an Emergency Response Vehicle.
gruendemann
this so called truth of yours. The tremendous desire to see the end of
this path is almost zealous... might one even say, fundamentalist!
<sigh>
Funny, but I am still being introduced to long time members who have
stayed on this path throughout all the changes. I guess perhaps you just
need this projection in order to rationalize your own life. Oh well...
hold your head high... sooner or later age takes attrition in hand and
people pass away. Then you can say you're rants were justified! It'll
just take another decade or so to fulfill your needs. <smile>
wernertrp
> I thought some might be interested in a new book by Ford Johnson,
> former Eckist, who explores some of the history and teachings of
> Eckankar.
>
> Here is the link:
> http://www.onepublishinginc.com
subject: A new book on/about eckankar ?
No, no, no.
I'm waiting for Gary Fike's gratis download blue prints
about pauli's starting the ancient old eckankar
private mixed pickles daily diary.
Title 1.)
Running, fucking and sucking around in crop circles.
or title 2.)
The search of god into the trash can.
or title 3.)
I threw the guts on you.
Do you take it ?
Remember:
We do not open the shop until the market is assured and the profit a certainty.
werner winzig witziger wahnwitz welten book zoo ;-)
gruendemann
>
> neural...@yahoo.com (neuralsurfer) wrote in message news:<d975b1d5.03041...@posting.google.com>...
> > I thought some might be interested in a new book by Ford Johnson,
> > former Eckist, who explores some of the history and teachings of
> > Eckankar.
> >
> > Here is the link:
> > http://www.onepublishinginc.com
>
> subject: A new book on/about eckankar ?
>
> No, no, no.
>
> I'm waiting for Gary Fike's gratis download blue prints
> about pauli's starting the ancient old eckankar
> private mixed pickles daily diary.
http://www.bestwebbuys.com/video/compare/id/4022948/p/2/isrc/v-compare-actor
> Title 1.)
> Running, fucking and sucking around in crop circles.
Is that what they call an afternoon in Europe? <shudder> No wonder there
was a Martin Luther. There had to be! <grin>
> or title 2.)
> The search of god into the trash can.
That exists.... a.r.e.! Ask alfie, he knows the bottom of the can better
than anyone else around here!
> or title 3.)
> I threw the guts on you.
> Do you take it ?
?????? Hmmmm... most civilized people don't throw guts on others. Did
you mean "spill" but can't get there through the language barrier?
>
> Remember:
> We do not open the shop until the market is assured and the profit a certainty.
No doubt Ford will make a profit. Ford Johnson on the other hand may be
in for a long haul with his new found religion! <wink> It's not as easy
as people make it out to be; everyone's a critic these days. <lol>
wernertrp
> I thought some might be interested in a new book by Ford Johnson,
> former Eckist, who explores some of the history and teachings of
> Eckankar.
>
> Here is the link:
> http://www.onepublishinginc.com
subject: A new book on/about eckankar ?
Or a new book about ancient capital letter G.I.G. ?
No, no, no.
This is with fee.
This is not for free.
And this ?
Jan's Daily Fresh News:
From the salsa prophet.
From the mind hacker.
From Mr. Münchhausen is back/out of/from the swamp.
www.jancox.com - is preaching his daily fresh news salsa parade.
Do not store it to your computer file system.
Do not tinker it into a book.
Do not remember it neither reiterate it.
It's written to read and/or to forget.
I see.
Jan like his capital letters in mixed colors.
werner winzig witziger wahnwitz welten free of fee zoo ;-)
Siva Ri
(good and bad lessons), and why he felt it was both a help and a
hindrance, and why he had to move on. Same thing has been done by most
others who leave. Sharing these kinds of experiences and insights is
of great value to many other people.
> > >Yet they explain the Truth as they have
> > > come to Know it Now, as if others need not go thru the different
> > > necessary stages/SOC's that are traversed on the true spiritual
> path.
> > > It's my experience that each Soul has unique steps and an
> individual
> > > ordering of these. Call it something else, paint it different
> colors
> > > but, as Eckankar teaches, all of those duality views must
> eventually
> > > be put aside as the responsibility comes home to the individual
> Soul
> > > sans masters and teachings.
> >
liberation without the living eck master are in the clutches of the
kal." So much for sans masters. Eckankar teachers love to play up the
individual freedom angle, while simultaneously threatening spiritual
regression if that freedom of choice leads anywhere but staying in
eckankar and staying with the living eck master for the rest of their
life.
> > All this, and he hasn't even read the book !
>
> That's it? No comment on content? He skips any meaning and goes
> straight into full on ad hominem... :-/
>
> Apparently he ignored what I wrote and confused opinion with facts.
> Unlike all the detractors who stated unequivocally as fact what the
> book is about, the impact it will have and/or how Eckists will
> respond, I merely said what my personal expectations were. The latter
> part was a different issue that might not be the case with Ford.
>
>
> > The simple truth is that Eckankar does not contain in it's
> membership
> > roles even a small percentage of those who were members during
> Paul's
> > time. They've virtually all moved on to greener, more honest,
> > pastures.
>
> So he believes, but I saw dozens of them last weekend at a relatively
> small gathering... and I don't claim to know them all.
>
>
> > Some will write about their disillusioning experience with
> > Eckankar, most won't.
>
> Because they take responsibility for their own perceptions, are not
> bitter back biters, or have actually moved on in a positive manner?
>
is not positive, therefore it is bitter back biting. (Rich's usual
spin on criticisms of Eckankar - its the critic's personal attitude
problem, nothing to do with Eckankar or truth)
>
> > One of the biggest problems with Eckankar (and,
> > for that matter, with any "path" that claims it's membership for
> life)
> > is that it never self-destructs.
>
> LOL That's a problem? Fuzy thinking here. I wonder why he believes
> that any religious organization intends to self-destruct. (For the new
> person's info: Eckankar does not 'claim it's membership for life'.
> Fact is quite the opposite. Members must reaffirm their willingsness
> to remain members every year. If they don't, their records will be
> expunged after five years)
>
your dues, you will be booted out and suffer spiritual regression and
bad karma until you came back in a future life and start all over
again.
>
> > All forms worth their salt will beg
> > for destruction once they've served the purpose of awakening.
>
> Eckankar teaches that it is the individual that is responsible for
> tearing away their own illusions. The organization continues to serve
> in assisting those that have not yet come to that awakening.
>
not yet come to an awakening.
>
> > Anything
> > less is self-serving survival instinct and has nothing to do with
> > freedom
>
> Organizations are not living things and therefore don't have any
> instinct or sense of freedom. Lots of fuzy logic from this person.
>
group initiations, etc. Didn't Harold say Eckankar was at the 6th
initiation level? Well you can't initiate a non-living thing can you
Rich. A little internal contradiction there.
>
> > and every thing to do with name, fame, and financial security.
> > Eckankar and such-kind keeps their adherents trapped in the
> > bureaucratic and financial goo that all institutions must generate
> as
> > by-product. So, the members become marketers, the faithful become
> > politicians and spin meisters, and the Rich get Richier and Richier,
> > eh Rich? (GG)
>
> Nope, not true at all. Talk about a fuzy perception spin meister.<g>
> Truth is members don't sell anything, they are free to do what they
> chose, and Eckankar requires no money from them.
>
are said to be "resting" in their spiritual growth. In fact the
eckankar holy book says explicitly that the initiate must become
fanatic about spreading the message of eckankar. It also says that the
mahdis (eckankar priest) vows to lead all souls to the living eck
master, and promises to preach the message at all times. The writings
are full of this kind of crap. And if you don't think the holy book
holds weight, the holy book itself declares that eckists shall hold no
other book above it.
@aloha.net Rich
"Siva Ri" <siv...@aol.com> wrote
> "Rich" <rsmith @aloha.net> wrote
> > > >Yet they explain the Truth as they have
> > > > come to Know it Now, as if others need not go thru the
different
> > > > necessary stages/SOC's that are traversed on the true
spiritual
> > path.
> > > > It's my experience that each Soul has unique steps and an
> > individual
> > > > ordering of these. Call it something else, paint it different
> > colors
> > > > but, as Eckankar teaches, all of those duality views must
> > eventually
> > > > be put aside as the responsibility comes home to the
individual
> > Soul
> > > > sans masters and teachings.
> > >
> Says the Eckankar teachings - "Those who think they can gain
spiritual
> liberation without the living eck master are in the clutches of the
> kal." So much for sans masters.
Thanks for exemplifying my point. For most this is a necessary stage.
You know this, yet you write seeming to imply that a person new a true
spiritual path can easily gain Self-Realization without a master. You
also know that Eckankar does teach over and over that "all of those
duality views must eventually be put aside as the responsibility comes
home to the individual Soul sans masters and teachings", yet you
posture as if this is not true. Why?
> Eckankar teachers love to play up the
> individual freedom angle, while simultaneously threatening spiritual
> regression if that freedom of choice leads anywhere but staying in
> eckankar and staying with the living eck master for the rest of
their
> life.
It is apparent that Eckists in this NG don't do that so, are you
talking about the way you behaved? This threatening thing really has
become just as lame as a Hitler comparison or playing the race card.
Works, as it should, for those that have a lot of fear and self doubt.
How else to learn the lesson?
Double false logic on your part. It was clearly a speculative
question, and secondly was about those that _don't_ write about their
disillusionment, not about critics. For some reason detractors feel
they are above criticism and seem to bristle even when they are only
imagining it.
> pointing out the failings of Eckankar when you leave
> is not positive, therefore it is bitter back biting. (Rich's usual
> spin on criticisms of Eckankar - its the critic's personal attitude
> problem, nothing to do with Eckankar or truth)
Ah huh... the critics insist that they are not responsible for their
behavior.%-| But that is one of the very keystones to the spiritual
path. So if they haven't come to that realization, it could be one of
the reasons that they left Eckankar which stress this more and more as
one approach the more expansive states of consciousness.
> > > One of the biggest problems with Eckankar (and,
> > > for that matter, with any "path" that claims it's membership for
> > life)
> > > is that it never self-destructs.
> >
> > LOL That's a problem? Fuzy thinking here. I wonder why he
believes
> > that any religious organization intends to self-destruct. (For the
new
> > person's info: Eckankar does not 'claim it's membership for life'.
> > Fact is quite the opposite. Members must reaffirm their
willingsness
> > to remain members every year. If they don't, their records will
be
> > expunged after five years)
> >
> Translation after removing the euphamistic tones - if you don't pay
up
> your dues, you will be booted out
That's simply not true. I never heard of anyone that was "booted out"
for not having money to donate. You know that. Why play this game?
What do you personally gain by such misrepresentions?
> and suffer spiritual regression and
> bad karma until you came back in a future life and start all over
> again.
>
> > > All forms worth their salt will beg
> > > for destruction once they've served the purpose of awakening.
> >
> > Eckankar teaches that it is the individual that is responsible for
> > tearing away their own illusions. The organization continues to
serve
> > in assisting those that have not yet come to that awakening.
> >
> The organization continues to impede and manipulate those that have
> not yet come to an awakening.
So you believe... Eckankar impedes it's members by allowing them
complete freedom of how they practice and interpret the teachings,
even if it's like Siva Ri's. The teaching can even be interpreted as
manipulating them to prove things for themself...? Wait a second,
that doesn't actually jive. Oh well, not my problem.
> > > Anything
> > > less is self-serving survival instinct and has nothing to do
with
> > > freedom
> >
> > Organizations are not living things and therefore don't have any
> > instinct or sense of freedom. Lots of fuzy logic from this
person.
> >
> Hmmm. Eckankar has been big on talking about group consciousness,
> group initiations, etc. Didn't Harold say Eckankar was at the 6th
> initiation level? Well you can't initiate a non-living thing can you
> Rich. A little internal contradiction there.
You've constructed a questionable way to see it like that. Long ago I
not only learned to live with contradictions and paradox, but to take
a more expansive view and embrace them. I found that additional
perspectives to black and white thinking is a necessay step in
spiritual awareness.
> > > and every thing to do with name, fame, and financial security.
> > > Eckankar and such-kind keeps their adherents trapped in the
> > > bureaucratic and financial goo that all institutions must
generate
> > as
> > > by-product. So, the members become marketers, the faithful
become
> > > politicians and spin meisters, and the Rich get Richier and
Richier,
> > > eh Rich? (GG)
> >
> > Nope, not true at all. Talk about a fuzy perception spin
meister.<g>
> > Truth is members don't sell anything, they are free to do what
they
> > chose, and Eckankar requires no money from them.
> >
> Reality - those who don't busy themselves selling the path to others
Nonsense! This is _your_ reality. The path is not for sale. A small
percentage of Eckists do work as Vahanas helping to let people know
about Eckankar<horrors>:-) But Eckankar teaches against proslyzation
because it is seen that as breaking the spiritual law of interference.
> are said to be "resting" in their spiritual growth.
Yes, those that were active in the outer organization are free to take
a rest... forever if they chose. But the truth is that there is a very
large percentage of Eckists that study completely on there own, have
never attended an Eckankar function or even met another Eckist.
> In fact the
> eckankar holy book says explicitly that the initiate must become
> fanatic about spreading the message of eckankar.
The Eckankar books say a lot of things. You chose to be a fanatic?
Fine. Your problem, not everyones. I chose my path differently.
> It also says that the
> mahdis (eckankar priest) vows to lead all souls to the living eck
> master, and promises to preach the message at all times. The
writings
> are full of this kind of crap. And if you don't think the holy book
> holds weight, the holy book itself declares that eckists shall hold
no
> other book above it.
Yawn... Apparently you chose those parts and took them as gospel,
while I chose the ones about freedom and the individual's approach to
God. What do you think it was about you that you choose the "crap"?
Were you a hard core Christian before you became an Eckist? Please
explain so that others may avoid your mis-takes.
FuzyWahz
> "FuzyWahz" <Fuzy...@earthlink.net> wrote
> > The simple truth is that Eckankar does not contain in it's
> membership
> > roles even a small percentage of those who were members during
> Paul's
> > time. They've virtually all moved on to greener, more honest,
> > pastures.
> So he believes, but I saw dozens of them last weekend at a relatively
> small gathering... and I don't claim to know them all.
Dozens? Then you wouldn't mind giving us just 12 names of members
present who were members in Paul's time? I'm sure we can double-check
you with Sworddancer, Colleen, Samorez, or even Doug. Remember, Suggie
doesn't like it when you lie. And boy, is he getting pissed at you!
@aloha.net Rich
"FuzyWahz" <Fuzy...@earthlink.net> wrote
> Dozens? Then you wouldn't mind giving us just 12 names of members
> present who were members in Paul's time?
Only if you will agree to admit to this NG that you were wrong when I
do.
Siva Ri
individual soul that has put aside masters and teachings. So what.
What the eckists in this NG say and do is irrelevant to the point of
what is written in the eckankar writings. And as any casual reader of
eckankar books and discourses can easily observe without the help of
your spin, the writings are full of threats of backsliding, bad karma,
and horrible suffering for those who leave the living eck master.
back biters. This is not a new accusation with you and your cohorts
Rich.
>
>
> > pointing out the failings of Eckankar when you leave
> > is not positive, therefore it is bitter back biting. (Rich's usual
> > spin on criticisms of Eckankar - its the critic's personal attitude
> > problem, nothing to do with Eckankar or truth)
>
> Ah huh... the critics insist that they are not responsible for their
> behavior.%-| But that is one of the very keystones to the spiritual
> path. So if they haven't come to that realization, it could be one of
> the reasons that they left Eckankar which stress this more and more as
> one approach the more expansive states of consciousness.
>
self responsibility is incompatible with pointing out the failings of
eckankar. If you followed this same lame logic consistently, you would
cease all counter-critiques of eckankar detractors.
>
> > > > One of the biggest problems with Eckankar (and,
> > > > for that matter, with any "path" that claims it's membership for
> life)
> > > > is that it never self-destructs.
> > >
> > > LOL That's a problem? Fuzy thinking here. I wonder why he
> believes
> > > that any religious organization intends to self-destruct. (For the
> new
> > > person's info: Eckankar does not 'claim it's membership for life'.
> > > Fact is quite the opposite. Members must reaffirm their
> willingsness
> > > to remain members every year. If they don't, their records will
> be
> > > expunged after five years)
> > >
> > Translation after removing the euphamistic tones - if you don't pay
> up
> > your dues, you will be booted out
>
> That's simply not true. I never heard of anyone that was "booted out"
> for not having money to donate. You know that. Why play this game?
> What do you personally gain by such misrepresentions?
>
5 years or your name is removed from the membership roles, with all
the bad karma that supposedly goes with it. The phrase "booted out" is
accurate in light of the terrible catastrophes that Klemp says await
those who leave the group.
>
> > and suffer spiritual regression and
> > bad karma until you came back in a future life and start all over
> > again.
> >
> > > > All forms worth their salt will beg
> > > > for destruction once they've served the purpose of awakening.
> > >
> > > Eckankar teaches that it is the individual that is responsible for
> > > tearing away their own illusions. The organization continues to
> serve
> > > in assisting those that have not yet come to that awakening.
> > >
> > The organization continues to impede and manipulate those that have
> > not yet come to an awakening.
>
> So you believe... Eckankar impedes it's members by allowing them
> complete freedom of how they practice and interpret the teachings,
> even if it's like Siva Ri's. The teaching can even be interpreted as
> manipulating them to prove things for themself...? Wait a second,
> that doesn't actually jive. Oh well, not my problem.
>
complete freedom to practice and interpret the teachings as they want,
all the while warning what bad things will happen if they stray
outside the circle of approval. Some freedom. But keep on crowing
about it Rich if it makes you feel free.
>
> > > > Anything
> > > > less is self-serving survival instinct and has nothing to do
> with
> > > > freedom
> > >
> > > Organizations are not living things and therefore don't have any
> > > instinct or sense of freedom. Lots of fuzy logic from this
> person.
> > >
> > Hmmm. Eckankar has been big on talking about group consciousness,
> > group initiations, etc. Didn't Harold say Eckankar was at the 6th
> > initiation level? Well you can't initiate a non-living thing can you
> > Rich. A little internal contradiction there.
>
> You've constructed a questionable way to see it like that. Long ago I
> not only learned to live with contradictions and paradox, but to take
> a more expansive view and embrace them. I found that additional
> perspectives to black and white thinking is a necessay step in
> spiritual awareness.
>
it black and white thinking and retreat behind the excuse of
paradoxes.
>
> > > > and every thing to do with name, fame, and financial security.
> > > > Eckankar and such-kind keeps their adherents trapped in the
> > > > bureaucratic and financial goo that all institutions must
> generate
> as
> > > > by-product. So, the members become marketers, the faithful
> become
> > > > politicians and spin meisters, and the Rich get Richier and
> Richier,
> > > > eh Rich? (GG)
> > >
> > > Nope, not true at all. Talk about a fuzy perception spin
> meister.<g>
> > > Truth is members don't sell anything, they are free to do what
> they
> > > chose, and Eckankar requires no money from them.
> > >
> > Reality - those who don't busy themselves selling the path to others
>
> Nonsense! This is _your_ reality. The path is not for sale. A small
> percentage of Eckists do work as Vahanas helping to let people know
> about Eckankar<horrors>:-) But Eckankar teaches against proslyzation
> because it is seen that as breaking the spiritual law of interference.
>
passages in the eckankar writings about not pushing eckankar on
others, and ignore or downplay those that do the opposite.
>
> > are said to be "resting" in their spiritual growth.
>
> Yes, those that were active in the outer organization are free to take
> a rest... forever if they chose. But the truth is that there is a very
> large percentage of Eckists that study completely on there own, have
> never attended an Eckankar function or even met another Eckist.
>
>
> > In fact the
> > eckankar holy book says explicitly that the initiate must become
> > fanatic about spreading the message of eckankar.
>
> The Eckankar books say a lot of things. You chose to be a fanatic?
> Fine. Your problem, not everyones. I chose my path differently.
>
fanatic. You have taken up your crusader position here on ARE and
defend all things eckankar with vehemence.
>
> > It also says that the
> > mahdis (eckankar priest) vows to lead all souls to the living eck
> > master, and promises to preach the message at all times. The
> writings
> > are full of this kind of crap. And if you don't think the holy book
> > holds weight, the holy book itself declares that eckists shall hold
> no
> > other book above it.
>
> Yawn... Apparently you chose those parts and took them as gospel,
> while I chose the ones about freedom and the individual's approach to
> God. What do you think it was about you that you choose the "crap"?
> Were you a hard core Christian before you became an Eckist? Please
> explain so that others may avoid your mis-takes.
>
that all higher initiates vow to follow include what you have chosen
to ignore. Your choice is a transgression of the holy book, oh ye
sinner.
@aloha.net Rich
Express crash and loose it when I added my sig. Grrrrr... <g> Haven't
got the heart to go through it all again. I actually gave up about
3/4 of the way through because it would be just more of the same; me
pointing out her insistence on the words of the Shariyat taking
precedence over the inner, projecting her past mis-takes in behavior
and attitudes all over the place, uncalled for misrepresentations of
what I thinks and feel, patently untrue assertions, seemingly
purposeful false contentiousness, and questioning what she feels she
gains from that kind of nonsense.
` o
|
~/|
_/ |\
/ | \
-/ | \
_ /____|___\_
(___________/
Rich~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Sailing the CyberSea~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Siva Ri" <siv...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:a0a906c9.03042...@posting.google.com...
MICHAEL TURNER
Thanks, Dave!
Michael
neuralsurfer <neural...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d975b1d5.03041...@posting.google.com...
FuzyWahz
> "FuzyWahz" <Fuzy...@earthlink.net> wrote
>
> > Dozens? Then you wouldn't mind giving us just 12 names of members
> > present who were members in Paul's time?
>
> Only if you will agree to admit to this NG that you were wrong when I
> do.
I have no problem admitting when I am wrong. It is just that it
happens so rarely! I will agree to your terms. You give a dozen first
and last names of eckankar members present in D.C. who were members
during Paul Twitchell's lifetime, that is, before Sept. 1971.
There are some problems. When did you join? If you weren't there, how
do you know? The other problem is obvious. Your personal ethics. But,
we will do the best we can with the input of others who were
definitely there 'back in the day' such as Colleen, Sworddancer,
Samorez and even Doug, if he's interested.
Of course, the whole point of this exercise is to point out the huge
turnover in Ecknakr's membership, especially in the inner circles.
Ford Johnson is just the latest, greatest example.
FUZY WAHZ
WASN'T
WAS HE?
>
cher
released yet, old boy. Oh wait... wouldn't a Master know that sort of
thing in advance? <lol>
cher
too cheap to go to the seminar to find out. So in comes captain funky!
Yes... he'll plant allegations and suppositions til someone is dumb
enough to "prove this moron wrong". <sigh> boy they sure do make some of
these guys dumb. <sigh>
@aloha.net Rich
"FuzyWahz" <Fuzy...@earthlink.net> wrote
> "Rich" <rsmith @aloha.net> wrote
> > "FuzyWahz" <Fuzy...@earthlink.net> wrote
> >
> > > Dozens? Then you wouldn't mind giving us just 12 names of
members
> > > present who were members in Paul's time?
> >
> > Only if you will agree to admit to this NG that you were wrong
when I
> > do.
>
> I have no problem admitting when I am wrong. It is just that it
> happens so rarely! I will agree to your terms. You give a dozen
first
> and last names of eckankar members present in D.C. who were members
> during Paul Twitchell's lifetime, that is, before Sept. 1971.
Richard Smith
Terry Campbell
Mr ?...? Rycroft - Met him for the first time this seminar
Elaine Paul (Hawaiian boy no less)
Frances Blackwell
Sherwood Shaffer
Marjorie Klemp
Elmo DeWitt
Carol Humlie - Can't remember her previous last name
Linda Lavaneri
Ron Lavaneri
Carol Chocklett
Cynthia Chock
Then there's a bunch more that I'm not 100% sure of:
Jack Heyl
Gordon Garland
Stan Burgess
Pete Solheim
Bill Mann
Don Ginn
Harold Huggins
Carol Morimitsu
Michael Yost
Anne Archer Butcher
Chris Morris
Greg Scott
Mary Hendricks
And I don't know, by a long shot, all the people who became members
before Paul translated, nor did I see everyone who attended the
seminar.
Will you apologize now for misrepresenting the truth as you did with,
"They've virtually *all* moved on to greener, more honest, pastures."
?
` o
|
~/|
_/ |\
/ | \
-/ | \
_ /____|___\_
(___________/
Rich~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Sailing the CyberSea~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
* My emphasis
Michael
downloaded "Spybot" from:
http://spybot.safer-networking.de/
FWIW ... the system seems more stable now. Not sure if it sorted out an
issue, but I surely understand when you put a lot of thought into a
response, and down it all goes...
The curious logic of Siva Ri when he says that ECKists have not become
individual Souls because they have not put aside Masters and Teachings is a
powerful inversion of the Ego State that catches many. It 'seems' logical on
one level, but can anyone tell me of a Jeweller who "Puts their Teacher
aside" or who "Throws his teaching away" when he qualifies, and starts
creating beatiful jewelry of his own?
I feel if people approached learning the spiritual path in a similar way
that one learns any trade, then we can get a clearer perspective on it all.
What I find is that people INVEST IDENTITY in a teaching, and when they want
to be themselves, they learn to pull Identity back to self... This is a
normal process, but Identity is the function of Ego...
What I find people confuse is Identity with Soul ... Soul learns to rise
above Identity to discover Self, and that is the FIRST step in the Eckankar
Teachings ... Siva Ri is really saying he never realised himself as Soul,
but of course, he will never grasp this, because he pulled back into
Identity, and feels perfectly OK where he is...
And the paradox is simply this... he IS OK. In fact, one of the better Souls
on the NG IMHO. The really hard part is when I see this, and I know the lad
will think i am pretending to be above him, and possibly fall into a
reaction pattern... That is what makes discussion so hard in these
situations.
Anyways... Gotta go. In one sense, I would love to see this area of thought
enlarged within the teaching, but the difficulty is, it is a Catch 22.
Those who see it, see it as obvious... those who see the Identity as the
core element of Persona see it as a manipulation tool...
love
Michael
"Rich" <rsmith @aloha.net> wrote in message
news:b8aur...@enews4.newsguy.com...
Michael
still with the path.
But whatever
Love
Michael
"gruendemann" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3EA6AEEB...@worldnet.att.net...
Michael
"FuzyWahz" <Fuzy...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:f461a11d.0304...@posting.google.com...
> "Rich" <rsmith @aloha.net> wrote in message
news:<b89c8...@enews3.newsguy.com>...
> > "FuzyWahz" <Fuzy...@earthlink.net> wrote
> >
> > > Dozens? Then you wouldn't mind giving us just 12 names of members
> > > present who were members in Paul's time?
> >
> > Only if you will agree to admit to this NG that you were wrong when I
> > do.
>
> I have no problem admitting when I am wrong. It is just that it
> happens so rarely! I will agree to your terms. You give a dozen first
> and last names of eckankar members present in D.C. who were members
> during Paul Twitchell's lifetime, that is, before Sept. 1971.
>
> There are some problems. When did you join? If you weren't there, how
> do you know? The other problem is obvious. Your personal ethics. But,
> we will do the best we can with the input of others who were
> definitely there 'back in the day' such as Colleen, Sworddancer,
> Samorez and even Doug, if he's interested.
>
> Of course, the whole point of this exercise is to point out the huge
> turnover in Ecknakr's membership, especially in the inner circles.
> Ford Johnson is just the latest, greatest example.
>
> FUZY WAHZ
> WASN'T
> WAS HE?
> >
When did you go from 12 members of Eckankar from before Paul's death to 12
members of that period who were at the last seminar?
Are you backsliding before you even have the chance to apologise?
Love
Michael
@aloha.net Rich
"Michael" <spl...@plat.org> wrote
> I have met DOZENS of people who were present during Paul's time, and
who are
> still with the path.
>
> But whatever
Yeah, it's just another detractor myth. Somebody said it once.
Another amplified it, and now they all have jumped on this. I supose
the thinking is it's damning evidence that since everyone has left,
something is wrong and this will detract some from the teachings.
Funny thing is, if this nonsense did turn anyone away, perhaps they
are not decerning enough to be on this path anyway.
cher
such things doesn't count with these guys. <lol> I just wonder how long
they'll talk about the people Rich listed, behind their backs.....
tongues dripping with hateful gossip and ugly lies. <shudder> What a
waste.... like anything shared with this group of detractors benefits
anyone on any level. :-\
@aloha.net Rich
"Michael" <spl...@plat.org> wrote
> I was regularly having that problem myself, Rich ... But I recently
> downloaded "Spybot" from:
>
> http://spybot.safer-networking.de/
Yeah, just had it recommended recently on another list. This HD is
sorta a temporary stop gap so I haven't bothered to install a bunch of
stuff beyond Norton. It's only happened a for or five times spaced
far apart... Generally this XP Pro is great.
> FWIW ... the system seems more stable now. Not sure if it sorted out
an
> issue, but I surely understand when you put a lot of thought into a
> response, and down it all goes...
I my wife heard me "#%@@!" in the other room and asked what was
wrong.<g>
> The curious logic of Siva Ri when he says that ECKists have not
become
> individual Souls because they have not put aside Masters and
Teachings is a
> powerful inversion of the Ego State that catches many.
And worse... it's assuming that s/he knows the SOC and beliefs of
another.
> It 'seems' logical on
> one level, but can anyone tell me of a Jeweller who "Puts their
Teacher
> aside" or who "Throws his teaching away" when he qualifies, and
starts
> creating beatiful jewelry of his own?
Seems to me that it's not always a real logic problem with some of
these folks, but simply a desire to be contentious at all costs. They
knee jerk without really considering the gross assumptions and illogic
of what they are writing.
> I feel if people approached learning the spiritual path in a similar
way
> that one learns any trade, then we can get a clearer perspective on
it all.
> What I find is that people INVEST IDENTITY in a teaching, and when
they want
> to be themselves, they learn to pull Identity back to self... This
is a
> normal process, but Identity is the function of Ego...
I agree. Seems like some of these longer termed Eckists did get a
clearer perspective at one time but whatever has caused their
detractordom has obscured that perspective.
> What I find people confuse is Identity with Soul ... Soul learns to
rise
> above Identity to discover Self, and that is the FIRST step in the
Eckankar
> Teachings ... Siva Ri is really saying he never realised himself as
Soul,
> but of course, he will never grasp this, because he pulled back into
> Identity, and feels perfectly OK where he is...
I won't speculate what Siva Ri's state of realization was, but it
doesn't appear too bright to me in this NG... which _is_ perfectly OK
with me too.
> And the paradox is simply this... he IS OK. In fact, one of the
better Souls
> on the NG IMHO. The really hard part is when I see this, and I know
the lad
> will think i am pretending to be above him, and possibly fall into a
> reaction pattern... That is what makes discussion so hard in these
> situations.
>
> Anyways... Gotta go. In one sense, I would love to see this area of
thought
> enlarged within the teaching,
We can each do our part here, and then there's Satsangs, Round Tables,
study forums, chela only workshops and informal discussions where I
suggest these kinds of things, when I attend.
> but the difficulty is, it is a Catch 22.
>
> Those who see it, see it as obvious... those who see the Identity as
the
> core element of Persona see it as a manipulation tool...
Certainly a lot of the detractors here have said they went the later
way. Good news is that Soul is eternal, so there no rush.<G>
Michael
>
> "Michael" <spl...@plat.org> wrote
>
> > I have met DOZENS of people who were present during Paul's time, and
> who are
> > still with the path.
> >
> > But whatever
>
> Yeah, it's just another detractor myth. Somebody said it once.
> Another amplified it, and now they all have jumped on this. I supose
> the thinking is it's damning evidence that since everyone has left,
> something is wrong and this will detract some from the teachings.
> Funny thing is, if this nonsense did turn anyone away, perhaps they
> are not decerning enough to be on this path anyway.
One thing that I notice, Go to Google and Eckankar and associated pages pop
up, not just good old a.r.e. This has happened in the last few years, thanks
to you and Steve, and others, getting the message across about search
engines to the folk at the office... So now a.r.e is really just a backwater
of opinion, and not a first port of call that it once was.
I feel the energy of detractor vhermence has died down significantly, and
maybe it is because these guys are understanding the pointlessness of it
all? I mean, when anyone searching for Eckankar related info always got
David Lane pages, and a.r.e. as the only thing that came up... Well, it
looked as if the teaching had little to say for itself.
Now that the ofdficial profile on the net has lifted... the abuse pages are
getting outweighed by clearer URL's to groups that are not so Effusive in
the Abusive. Ou detractors, always marginal at best, have really become
completely marginalized.
So now, as you say, they in effect serve the Eckankar teaching with the
abuse and rumours by providing an efficient qualifying "gate" that the frail
and prone to gossip type will not pass. It's a good thing.
Now what we have is Colleen and Benji <G>
And Sharon and M...
And Alf making up tales
What is this... a Sad Sack of Detractors?
<G>
Love
Michael
FuzyWahz
Hey, fuckwit, you forgot me. Hard to tell who's more arrogant, you,
Rich, or Cher. You know what's really wrong with this newsgroup? It's
being taken over by a bunch of convict progeny from the Land Down
Under My Crotch. Why don't you just lick a wombat's private parts and
get it over with, you puss. Lurk was right about you. I'm surprised
even Cher put's up with your "little lady" male chauvinist pig talk.
What an ass. Join the 21st Century you cult wacko. Cult joining is
soooooo 60's and 70's.
You want to talk about marginalized? How about a 6th rate
cult/religion that hasn't grown since the public decided coke and
grass weren't really all that good for you? Eckankar is as tired as
big hair, platform shoes, and folk music. The freaking Jevoha's
Witnesses and the 7th Day Adventists have a hundred times the
membership Eckankar does! Nice company you keep. Do you still wear
your "mood" ring Mikey? Had a "reading" lately, you fuggin' loser,
you. You REALLY think Eckankar is going to lose it's reputation as a
fringe movement started by a lying, plagiarzing, egomaniac suffering
from delusions of grandeur, appealing to poor saps who don't have the
self-esteem or self-respect to know when they are taking it up the
ass? Wake the fuck up.
FUZY WAHZ
WASN'T
WAS HE, PUNK?
cher
show..... better than cartoons some days, a cartoon mob boss from the
Soprano's. <chuckling> You know alfie.... this stuff is just symbolic of
a man with no personal power in his life! Seriously, any first year
psych student can see through your rants. <sigh>
FuzyWahz wrote:
<snip>
@aloha.net Rich
"cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote
> Geez.... why don't you tell us how you REALLY FEEL! <lol> What a
> show..... better than cartoons some days, a cartoon mob boss from
the
> Soprano's. <chuckling> You know alfie.... this stuff is just
symbolic of
> a man with no personal power in his life! Seriously, any first year
> psych student can see through your rants. <sigh>
Kind of funny actually. Michael writes about 'Sad Sack of Detractors'
and a great example jumps right out of the bag and struts his stuff
for all to see the validity of Michael's point.
Michael
Just quickly... I flicked open the Shariyat this morning, and iut went to
page 144 of Book One.
It is very clear on the subject of leaving, and only asks that the Chela
request permission to leave if they intend to go. What I would find
interesting is the way a Detractor would invert this as a form of control
and manipulation...
It is very clear... a person is perfectly welcome to stay or leave, and the
Master will not try to influence them in any way in regards their decision.
I know what you mean about knee-jerk posts that ignor principle of common
sense and logic, but what really fascinates me is that when it is CLEARLY
responded to, the poster diverges from the point (or lack thereof) and
doesn't seem to be able to recognise even the most basic of non sequitur
responses they make thereafeter...
But what the hell... It wouldn't be a.r.e. if it made any sense! <G>
Love
michael
"Rich" <rsmith @aloha.net> wrote in message
news:b8de2...@enews1.newsguy.com...
NoCa...@webtv.net
Eckankar might hope for in one sense. The table of contents lists a
gallery of Eck masters and Eck temples. The way it's presented seems to
imply their reality, rather than simply there to display it as made up
things. Also , Johnson talks about an experience with the Nine Silent
Ones in the book description as being critical in his journey. So, my
guess is he'll be talking more about illusions and limitations of the
Eckankar teachings as the one path , rather than dismissing the masters
and cosmology as fake. Just my opinion.
Michael
>
> "cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote
> > Geez.... why don't you tell us how you REALLY FEEL! <lol> What a
> > show..... better than cartoons some days, a cartoon mob boss from
> the
> > Soprano's. <chuckling> You know alfie.... this stuff is just
> symbolic of
> > a man with no personal power in his life! Seriously, any first year
> > psych student can see through your rants. <sigh>
>
> Kind of funny actually. Michael writes about 'Sad Sack of Detractors'
> and a great example jumps right out of the bag and struts his stuff
> for all to see the validity of Michael's point.
Don't you just love it... All those angry pixels of their Journey to
Nowhere...
Is it that he hates Eckists, or just really detests pixels?
<G>
love
Michael
M
> Geez.... why don't you tell us how you REALLY FEEL! <lol> What a
> show..... better than cartoons some days, a cartoon mob boss from the
> Soprano's. <chuckling> You know alfie.... this stuff is just symbolic of
> a man with no personal power in his life! Seriously, any first year
> psych student can see through your rants. <sigh>
What would that first year psych student say about your, ahem, life? I
guess you at least have the 'personal power' to switch from a.r.e. to
The Guiding Light with one push of a button. Now that's power! <gggg>
Besides, the only 'sad sack' is in Michael's pants...right "Bee"? M.
cher
>
> cher <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:<3EAB0A56...@worldnet.att.net>...
> > Geez.... why don't you tell us how you REALLY FEEL! <lol> What a
> > show..... better than cartoons some days, a cartoon mob boss from the
> > Soprano's. <chuckling> You know alfie.... this stuff is just symbolic of
> > a man with no personal power in his life! Seriously, any first year
> > psych student can see through your rants. <sigh>
>
> What would that first year psych student say about your, ahem, life? I
Frankly that I have at least a balanced view of life rather than a
fundamentalist obsession with what other people are thinking and doing!
:-) I would not be afraid of a first year psych student, as I'm sure
you'd be terrified of dealing with someone who could so easily see
through your hatred and inability to move on in life.
> guess you at least have the 'personal power' to switch from a.r.e. to
> The Guiding Light with one push of a button. Now that's power! <gggg>
Gee.... if you knew of my other interests, you might completely lose
your mind! Imagine that I am enjoying this planet as a place of
experiences, and not behaving in a detractors vision of fundamentalist
obsessions such as they are? <smile> Which soaps do you watch? <lol>
> Besides, the only 'sad sack' is in Michael's pants...right "Bee"? M.
>
M., are you a gay man? You spend an inordinate amount of time fixated on
male genitals, your favorite subject. Does seem to fit the pattern of
the closet, actually.
Al Radzik
cher wrote:
> M., are you a gay man? You spend an inordinate amount of time fixated on
> male genitals, your favorite subject. Does seem to fit the pattern of
> the closet, actually.
What's wrong with "gayness" cher? Harold would put you over his wobbly little knee and spank the
bejeezus out of you for not being tolerant. Are you a carpet muncher yourself.....a shrub scout as they
say? It's OK. Just make sure your private parts don't shut tight.
Can you spell "broomstick?"
Alf
cher
those left! :-) Nope... I have nothing against gays, alf. It's you who
seem to be so frightened by the term. <smile>
Al Radzik
cher wrote:
> Guess I struck a nerve. Didn't think a burn out like you had any of
> those left! :-) Nope... I have nothing against gays, alf. It's you who
> seem to be so frightened by the term. <smile>
>
Cut the crap, asswipe. Get your next discourse and contemplate the shrinking vagina.
Alf
Michael
<NoCa...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:17848-3EA...@storefull-2153.public.lawson.webtv.net...
That was what I gathered as well.. The intro looked like the rest of the
book was simply wordy and heavy going... and 500 plus pages! That's a lot...
The links to David Lane (Pretty much proved ingenuous by Doug Marman's book
and his response to it) indicate this is a factor in his choices, but he
also offers open links to many URL's
It looks to me like another guru seeks to light up the Dark Night of
someone's Soul... Who knows, it may be helpful to many people. This, I feel,
is more important than any "anti" campaign by detractors of the teaching.
Love
michael
>
cher
example of an abuser. Maybe that's why homophobic seems to fit you so
well? The mold is cast, and guess what.... you're a perfect fit!
Al Radzik
Alf
cher
FuzyWahz
Good god but you are a dumb ass. Can you read?
"FuzyWahz" <Fuzy...@earthlink.net> wrote
> Dozens? Then you wouldn't mind giving us just 12 names of members
> present who were members in Paul's time?
"present" refers to present at the seminar, dumb ass.
>
> Are you backsliding before you even have the chance to apologise?
Imbecile.
FuzyWahz
I've heard of 5 of these people. Let's say I take you at your word
that all these people were members when Paul Twitchell was alive. What
percentage of the current membership were members during Paul's time?
I know you like to deal in percentages. My point is that the Eckankar
retention rate for members is terrible. Granted we'll never resolve or
prove the issue as the organization is too paranoid to release *any*
membership or financial figures.
FUZY WAHZ
WASN'T
WAS HE?
* Emphasis mine
> Then there's a bunch more that I'm not 100% sure of:
> Jack Heyl
> Gordon Garland
> Stan Burgess
> Pete Solheim
> Bill Mann
> Don Ginn
> Harold Huggins
> Carol Morimitsu
> Michael Yost
> Anne Archer Butcher
> Chris Morris
> Greg Scott
> Mary Hendricks
>
> And I don't know, by a long shot, all the people who became members
> before Paul translated, nor did I see everyone who attended the
> seminar.
>
> Will you apologize now for misrepresenting the truth as you did with,
> "They've virtually *all* moved on to greener, more honest, pastures."
Can't until I get my old hard drive up and running with the membership
list from 1971. ;)
Jackie
> > Don Ginn
> > Carol Morimitsu
> > Michael Yost
> > Greg Scott
> >
These people are and were at the D.C. seminar. I saw them and talked to 3 of
them personally.
Jackie
Al Radzik
my face unless you want it right back at ya! Get the picture, lovebug?
Alf
cher
alfie! The master of his own destiny, the subject matter expert of
female sexuality! LOL.... go away and grow up!
Al Radzik
cher wrote:
> Big bad man... ohhhhh I'm so scared of the hot air ballon known as
> alfie! The master of his own destiny, the subject matter expert of
> female sexuality! LOL.... go away and grow up!
Just consider me your karmic kontractor. I'm here to build it up until you reach the depths of hell
where you belong with your poisonous posts, boneheaded bitch.
Alf
cher
tell the difference between a vigina and an earlobe! <chuckling> yeah...
sure alfie. Whatever!
@aloha.net Rich
"FuzyWahz" <Fuzy...@earthlink.net> wrote
> "Rich" <rsmith @aloha.net> wrote
> > "FuzyWahz" <Fuzy...@earthlink.net> wrote
> > > "Rich" <rsmith @aloha.net> wrote
> > > > "FuzyWahz" <Fuzy...@earthlink.net> wrote
> > > >
> > > > > Dozens? Then you wouldn't mind giving us just 12 names of
> > members
> > > > > present who were members in Paul's time?
***> > > > Only if you will agree to admit to this NG
> > > > that you were wrong when I do.***
***> > > I have no problem admitting when I am wrong.***
> > > It is just that it
> > > happens so rarely!
***> > > I will agree to your terms.***
> > > You give a dozen first
> > > and last names of eckankar members present in D.C. who were
members
> > > during Paul Twitchell's lifetime, that is, before Sept. 1971.
> >
> > Richard Smith
> > Terry Campbell
> > Mr ?...? Rycroft - Met him for the first time this seminar
> > Elaine Paul (Hawaiian boy no less)
> > Frances Blackwell
> > Sherwood Shaffer
> > Marjorie Klemp
> > Elmo DeWitt
> > Carol Humlie - Can't remember her previous last name
> > Linda Lavaneri
> > Ron Lavaneri
> > Carol Chocklett
> > Cynthia Chock
>
> I've heard of 5 of these people. Let's say I take you at your word
> that all these people were members when Paul Twitchell was alive.
Ah! <G> So he goes back on his word. No apology, no admittance he was
wrong :-/ ...just the usual troll sidestep of the facts and carrying
on asking for yet more facts that will certainly be ignored while
unabatedly promoting an imagined worse case scenario of a completely
unsupported point.
` o
|
~/|
_/ |\
/ | \
-/ | \
_ /____|___\_
(___________/
Rich~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Sailing the CyberSea~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
James Wisher
> Terry Campbell
> Mr ?...? Rycroft - Met him for the first time this seminar
> Elaine Paul (Hawaiian boy no less)
> Frances Blackwell
> Sherwood Shaffer
> Marjorie Klemp
> Elmo DeWitt
> Carol Humlie - Can't remember her previous last name
> Linda Lavaneri
> Ron Lavaneri
> Carol Chocklett
> Cynthia Chock
You can add
Melodie Chrislock
Phil Wellman
Fred Foos
Patti Simpson (Yes, she is, despite the silly rumors.)
And I was just talking with someone who was in Las Vegas where they had met
several of Paul's students.
Also, they had a Founder's day party on the East Coast last September where
people came out of the woodwork with private letters and stories of their
experiences with Paul.
JW
James Wisher
Al Radzik
James Wisher wrote:
All bullshit to keep you religion going.
Alf
@aloha.net Rich
"James Wisher" <j...@jji.com> wrote
Your right, there's dozens more James. I was asked for _only_ the
people at the DC seminar a couple weeks ago. There were most likely
others there that I didn't know, or see.