Eckankar and Jesus
Paul Jones
check out my web site:
UFO's, Ascension, Lightwork
http://hometown.aol.com/gracewatcher/
Sharon
gracew...@aol.com (Paul Jones) wrote:
> What does Eckankar say about Jesus?
ECKANKAR ON JESUS:
Just a bit, of course. You might try doing a deja power search for "Jesus."
I know I've posted other quotes, and so have others....Harold, of course,
remembers quite clearly his incarnation as one of Jesus' boyhood chums or
something...don't remember exactly....
From "Letters to a Chela" by Paul Twitchell:
"Jesus is dead whether anyone believes this or not. He died some 2000 years
ago and has not been with this world since. This is the saddest aspect of
Christian religious history, that he had to disappear to give way to a
clerical, priestly image. Christianity as a historic religion was not founded
by Jesus, but by an educated Jew named Paul, who was adopted by the mother
church as St. Paul. However, Jesus is now the figurement of the traditional
writings, which have been edited through the centuries by various writers
mainly in the Catholic and Protestant churches."
(However, Twitch claimed that St. Paul was a member of the secret order of
the ECK Masters in his "secret discourses," Precepts of Eckankar, #
5....the early versions, that is. By the time *I* got this set of
discourses, Klemp had edited it out. Klemp's done LOTS of editing in the
cult's brief history.)
"However, nothing new can be added about this man who made claims, according
to his biographers, that he was the Son of Man and later as his biographers
tried to establish as God who had manifested himself; note the word
"himself," which is an expression of the lower worlds. The true God, the
SUGMAD, is always designated as IT which has no gender. Therefore we see him
as really a son of Kal Niranjan who is king of the lower worlds who expresses
himself in the male gender..."
("...the Supreme Deity, the Sugmad Himself." Eckankar, the Secret Way,
1967. "He will not require that you love Him as a great soul..." "His
love...He feeds me..." The Tiger's Fang, 1967)
Those priests and clergy who preach the word of Jesus and the God of
Christianity is thereby only speaking in the terms of institutional religion,
that of the educated. They preach from the Christian Bible, as the authority
for their case, based upon the words of their God. Therefore we find that
this is a false teaching for the Bible is accepted as being the Guru, or the
Master which gives the words which those Biblical writers have put into the
mouth of a man who lived 2,000 years ago and never said anything close to
what his followers claim down through the ages."
("When the sacred teachings of the ECK have been put into printed books,
such as the SHARIYAT-KI-SUGMAD, all ECK chelas can go forth and by using it
as reference can give all the holy scriptures of it to the world. There is
none greater than this magnificent scripture and we as the chelas of ECK
must use it as the source book, the living Bible of our beliefs and faith."
Twitch, Illuminated Way Letters, page 216 )
"It's said that Christians get to heaven simply with faith and an act of
grace. This ws the basic teachings which Jesus taught becuse he knew that it
would appeal to all people on a general basis. Also the denial of this world
would bring poor and middle clss into his teachings."
(Good grief, this is EXACTLY the strategy that twitch used when setting up
his cult. Except...It's faith in the LEM, and initiation & continued
membership in the cult. Twitch, and now Klemp, are quite open about telling
their "missionaries" to be sure to tell people what will appeal to them...)
"His father Joseph was an Aryan and his mother Jewish. Joseph was a member
of the Essenes, a secret society which flourished in those times. The
biblical story of the immaculate conception is not to be taken too seriously,
that Jesus was born of the Holy Ghost and from a Virgin. This was invented
to fit into the theology which at the time was formulated for saviour-gods."
(tee-hee. Twitch in his pseudo-Bible: "The ECK enters into the womb of a
virgin, the queen of heaven, who has submitted to the true spirit of the
universe. The consciousness of the Mahanta state (the spiritual form of the
human Eckankar leader) is planted as the seed, and carefully nurtured in the
womb. When the embodiment of flesh is brought into this world, a man- child
is born. It starts its unfoldment over a period of years until the state of
perfection is reached, in adulthood. Then the chosen one learns that he is
the Living ECK Master of his times." SKS 1, pg. 111-112, 2nd ed., 10th
printing, 1987)
". . .His name was Yahevau, and he did not receive the name of Jesus until he
was initiated by the ECK Master Fubbi Quantz, at the Katsupari Monastery in
northern Tibet. This was the last place where he studied before returning to
the world to preach his message. He had been in Egypt, Palestine, Persia,
and India studying under various teachers and entering into the mystery
schools to learn about them. He spent three years at the Katsupari Monastery
where he studies ECK and received the second initiation. He believed then
this was the moment to give his messge to the world...."
(I'll have to check up on Fubbi. In The Tiger's Fang, Twitch says that
Fubbi was the LEM in 10th century Persia...make up your mind, Twitch!!)
"The dust, grime, and poverty of that age was appalling, and disease
rampant...Jesus was a marked man long before Judas got any idea about
betraying him.
He was a small slender man, of dark complexion, and wore a long robe
characteristic of his times. His hair was short because of the heat and his
beard, like his hair, was brown, but short also. The insects and lice were
too abundant to wear long hair and beards. He was about five feet, one inch
tall, dark eyes and wore sandals most of the time because of the earth ws too
hot to tread barefooted. His face was broad, and full jowled. The pictures
which we see of him today are an artist's concept, painted by a German during
the 16th century."
(Hmmmm....just a thought...I seem to remember, Giotto painted some much
earlier things...probably others did...maybe twitch is referring to the
blue-eyes one you see in many churches...unimportant, anyway...)
"Of course he wore a hood which kept the burning sun from cracking the skin
of his scalp. The title Christ was given to him long after his death, the
spiritual name Jesus was bestowed upon him by Fubbi Quantz, and his messge to
the world was a simplified version of ECKANKAR, which was mangled by his
followers and Paul the founder of Christianity. He never meant for his own
teachings to go beyond his times because he realized that the ECK Masters had
their own plans for the world's spiritual unfoldment. He knew that man had
not even progressed to the stage of astral development, and was not ready for
anything which went beyond this in his simple nature.
Jesus was shrewd and the Romans watching him were foiled for three years;
they had to wait until the proper time when one of his disciples showed a
weakness. It turned out to be Judas who was the treasurer of his little
band..."
Later in Chapter 3 of LC:
"Since Christianity is only an aspect of the ECK there is no need of viewing
it or any other religion with awe. Therefore we must look upon each with a
sympathetic view that every groups is respectively struggling to find the
Godhead. Since every ECKist knows that the Godhead is that which is
available only through the path of ECK then he must be warm, sympthetic, and
helpful to those in religions, occultism and philosophies for they are all
the subordinates of ECKANKAR..."
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Sharon
davidbarnes
CB <cultb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Sharon, have you noticed how quiet it is around here these days?
Maybe
> they're all following their own advice and becoming "detached"!
I've noticed it too but I don't think writing here or not is a
reflection of detachment.
Dave
sharon v.c.
On Tue, 05 Oct 1999 06:14:10 -0400 CB wrote:
>
>
> Sharon wrote:
>
> Later in Chapter 3 of LC:
>
> >
> > "Since Christianity is only an aspect of the ECK there is no need of viewing
> > it or any other religion with awe. Therefore we must look upon each with a
> > sympathetic view that every groups is respectively struggling to find the
> > Godhead. Since every ECKist knows that the Godhead is that which is
> > available only through the path of ECK then he must be warm, sympthetic, and
> > helpful to those in religions, occultism and philosophies for they are all
> > the subordinates of ECKANKAR..."
>
> I always wondered about that compassionate condescension they exude so freely.
Peace, love, and Understanding? Hardly...they can't even
get along with each other, frequently!! Lots of little
power struggles go on behind the scenes...
But yes, any compassion is definitely condescending, towards
any who haven't "gotten" it, or just aren't interested in this
cult and its silly new-age "teachings." Inside, the eckist
knows that anyone who doesn't sign up is just spiritually
"lower" and has much to learn before they "earn" the right to
get their "secret stuff." Funny thing is, there ARE no
secrets...just plagiarized stuff, & more mind-control.
But, OH! When a newbie joins!! Oh Wow!! Yes!!! Another
"TruthCorps" eckmissionary...they're profusely welcomes into
the exclusive ranks of the cult...no wonder a lot of mixed
up people fall for it.
> BTW, where can I pick up that piece of trash known as Letters To A Chela? Is it
> still available or was it part of the Geckstapo Bookburning along with
> Twitchell's unmatched "masterpieces" of spiritual literature.
I forget when it went out of print...it's not in the 1992
catalog, but I think it may have been in 1990's...except
I remember, when a book was going out of print, there was
always a flurry of "buy it before it disappears!!"
I especially remember that happening when they got rid of
LTG III....funny, another long-time eckist at the time said
they were tempted to buy it, but felt they just weren't
ready for such "high" secret knowledge. I couldn't afford
it at the time, but I borrowed it maybe 2-3 years ago...
sent it back to the person not too long before I came here
to a.r.e.
The book waas filled with the usual crap...I especially
remember the alien-mind-beam stuff. Yes!! Twitch said we
were being controlled by evil alien mind-beams from outer
space.....<ggg>
You know....I read the damn thing, trying to find the great
spiritual wisdom in it. Figured there was something wrong
with *me* when I couldn't find it...so I just tried to "hu"
more, asked that the "mahanta" open my spiritual eyes...
Funny...that was a sincere request. And...I ended up here.
> Hey Sharon, have you noticed how quiet it is around here these days? Maybe
> they're all following their own advice and becoming "detached"!
Actually...I haven't really noticed. I've been busy...not
reading everything here. It's old, you know?
> That is of course except for Rose Sierra, who blathers on about the government,
> and circles, some guy named Fred, and some girl named Delores who turns on the light in her refrigerator.
>
I just pop into a few of hers once in awhile. Hey, give
the poor woman a break, CB. She's obviously always had a
pretty miserable life...if you really look at her posts,
well...her life history is there. And it's a pretty sad
story...one of those typical "victim" things, except she's
never worked on getting past it...I'd say probably because
of her cult involvement, which further victimizes people
while it gives them a false feeling of being empowered in
some way.
Plus...she's not living an honest life. I don't care HOW
you rationalize it, or how hard you try to delude yourself...
somewhere deep inside, *everyone* has a conscience...and if
you're not in tune to it, and listen to it...well, you end
up in a constant state of confused denial & stuff, and can
*never* really learn & grow as a human/spiritual child of
God.
Then...she's got her illness, which isn't a pleasant thing
to live with. Although perhaps since she *can* get around
to outdoor fairs & sell things at booths, perhaps she could
use some of the energy she wastes defending herself against
aliens & the CIA to think of other ways to earn a living...
other than shacking up with more abusers, as she's obviously
done throughout her life...
Hey, she could at least find a guy with a job! Not another
welfare recipient. Lots of the mentally handicapped are
gainfully employed...some in sheltered workshops (I worked in
the office of one many years ago), and in private industry...
I've known some really sweet & special "mentally challenged"
people...some with Down's Syndrome, even...who took such pride
in their work, whatever it was, and loved getting real
paychecks!!
Just remembered a man I tutored a few years ago. He'd held a
job as a resort dishwasher for 20+ years...conquered alcoholism
after a long time, and learned to read in his 40's...so they
promoted him to making salads. He always took great pride in
making those pots & pans shine, though...and he was a kind and
caring person...
I remembered thinking...his next life would be better, and he'd
probably become an eckist.
I was a bit nuts, you know. He'd already "gotten it" ... the
*real* thing. He'd been raised a Christian, in a very poor
family...bad, inadequate schooling & all...but he had a good
life. He didn't *need* cult membership...
Oh well...gotta run....
By the way, on Nathan & his "protection" rituals...the eckbooks
are filled with that nonsense. It's not just Nathan...they
*all* do them....from Klemp right on down...
Hugs,
Sharon
--
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Exchange ideas on practically anything (tm).
Michael Wallace
sharon v.c. <sharo...@myremarq.com> wrote in message
news:iwnK3.3918$%62.6...@c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com...
>
> But, OH! When a newbie joins!! Oh Wow!! Yes!!! Another
> "TruthCorps" eckmissionary...they're profusely welcomes into
> the exclusive ranks of the cult...no wonder a lot of mixed
> up people fall for it.
But my goodness... Aren't we glad when some leave!! <G> The only problem is
they leave, but they just can't stay away!!!
Perhaps it is like the French profess... That the strong underarm scent of
the husband is what keeps the wife attracted to him. She may hate it, she
may detest him, but she needs that underarm scent all the same <G>
It's the smell that keeps you here, hey Sharon? <G>
Funny how what smells like crap to someone is roses to another, though. Go
figure...
Love
Michael
JR
confrontations dominate and frankly, I have always felt confrontation
without true possibility of effect rather meaningless.
I have studied many paths, some more serious than others... still, I find no
cause to attack that which served me. Futher, I find amazing the simple lack
of understanding of semantics. Did you see the raging debate over what
someone read, suggesting that Eckankar was the 'only way' to... whatever? As
if the use of different words to describe the aspects of life make one
person correct and another wrong?
Anyway, Michael... you make a good point (with a touch of humor).
Michael Wallace <wall...@better.net.au> wrote in message
news:7tol35$cpl$4...@gnamma.connect.com.au...
>
> sharon v.c. <sharo...@myremarq.com> wrote in message
> news:iwnK3.3918$%62.6...@c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com...
> >
>
> > But, OH! When a newbie joins!! Oh Wow!! Yes!!! Another
> > "TruthCorps" eckmissionary...they're profusely welcomes into
> > the exclusive ranks of the cult...no wonder a lot of mixed
> > up people fall for it.
>
>
sharon v.c.
On Sun, 10 Oct 1999 11:38:01 -0700 "JR" wrote:
> I visit this newsgroup on occasion, but seldom add question or comment. The
> confrontations dominate
Well, JR, the thing is....confrontation is inevitable.
You see...the eckist purpose for being here is to get new cult members.
I know this...I was an eckist when I came here. Eckists
believe that they *do* have the highest and only path to God, and
that you don't get to God in any way until & unless you become a
member of eckankar.
Now, there are (in their minds) people who just refuse to accept,
or just aren't "ready," or...tools of the Kal, hell-bent on keeping
people entrapped in false, lower teachings, which in their minds, is
anything OTHER than eckankar.
When I came here as an eckist, I *did* come here with an open, loving
heart...ready to be a good co-worker and share Spirit. I also *did*
respect all paths, and extend divine unconditional love to all souls.
To be honest, when I got here...I learned that I wasn't like the other
eckists here...and most of THEM have been here for a long, long time...
Well...to make a long story short, I sort of woke up, saw the truth,
and left the cult. True, much of it was because it started out by just
asking questions which no one would answer. Things the other
"detractors" posted, well...they let me know my having questions WASN'T
because of "doubts deliberately implanted by the Mahanta for my
spiritual growth, to overcome" OR attempts by the KAL to deceive me.
(as the eckbooks teach.)
My detracting, well...it just happened. I was here, I was an eckist, I
was sort of surprised at everything that happened...well, I just found
myself posting what *I* was learning & discovering & stuff...
In the process, well....I started hearing from a lot of lurkers out
there.
My eyes are still being opened, you know.
>and frankly, I have always felt confrontation
> without true possibility of effect rather meaningless.
"Effect" is not the point of "detracting," JR.
Although, I've been thanked profusely by many "lurkers" it's
usually AFTER the fact....I'm just sort of posting my own truth
here...don't think much about the effect it's having.
And...I must say, when I was an eckist here, Joe and Lurk certainly
weren't trying to talk me into leaving or anything...they just sort
of stood back, I'd say....let me make up my own mind. And that's the
honest truth.
If anything convinced me that eckankar was a lie, it was a combination
of the "teachings" and my taking an honest look at them, and what I
believed in...and seeing evidence in the "teachings" (I'd sort of
skimmed over and ignored a lot) that eckankar was a lie. And...the
public and private behavior of the eckists here, as well as looking
back over almost 15 years in the cult, and carefully examining
EVERYTHING, both "inner" and "outer" .... well...there was NOTHING that
spoke in eckankar's favor.
You see...what *I* believe in are the spiritual truths that twitchell
stole from elsewhere. The ones freely available to seekers from many
good & reliable sources.
And...the eckankar "inner" was a deceptive lie, too. I'm not saying
that there isn't a real "inner," or real experiences...but, well...the
REAL ones are NOT in any way connected to this cult.
>
> I have studied many paths, some more serious than others... still, I find no cause to attack that which served me.
It's not really attacking, JR, and....it's especially not directed
toward something which served us.
We're simply stating the truth we discovered, about something which did
NOT serve us...but rather, lied to us and deceived us.
We're simply doing consumer education, JR. And for me, well...I've
posted many times, I'm doing what I wish someone had done for me many
years ago. As it turned out, thanks to the "detractors" here who
continue to do it, well...better late than never, when it comes to
leaving a cult!!!
I, personally, greatly appreciate the fact that the "detractors" are
here. I owe them so much more than I can possibly express.
Futher, I find amazing the simple lack
> of understanding of semantics. Did you see the raging debate over what someone read, suggesting that Eckankar was the 'only way' to... whatever? As if the use of different words to describe the aspects of life make one person correct and another wrong?
>
JR, it's not a matter of semantics, believe me. The "only way"
quote is just one of many...and it's the underlying theme of this
cult, and a major part of its mind-control programming.
You, evidently, didn't get deceived and sucked into it like so
many others.
And...that missionary thing that twitch started, the one in "Letters to
a Chela" well...klemp is continuing it, only worse. With the help of
expert marketing consultants, of course.
Michael Wallace
>
> Michael Wallace <wall...@better.net.au> wrote in message
> news:7tol35$cpl$4...@gnamma.connect.com.au...
>
> >
> > Funny how what smells like crap to someone is roses to another, though.
Go
> > figure...
JR <jrtc...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:OsHQo00E$GA.263@cpmsnbbsa03...
>
> I have studied many paths, some more serious than others... still, I find
no
> cause to attack that which served me. Further, I find amazing the simple
lack
> of understanding of semantics. Did you see the raging debate over what
> someone read, suggesting that Eckankar was the 'only way' to... whatever?
As
> if the use of different words to describe the aspects of life make one
> person correct and another wrong?
>
> Anyway, Michael... you make a good point (with a touch of humor).
>
I think the term "Obsessional Behaviour" comes to mind when I think of some
of our posters here Dear JR. Either that or the term "Typo"... But that is
mostly confined to myself, of course. <G>
Yes it can be truly amazing the time people spend on this, arguing their
case, finding some vague "fact" to "prove" an opinion. Would you beleive,
because I can't take it all that seriously I have been accused of "sheer
Flippancy".
I can only say, flippancy is an excellent thing when making pancakes.
Certainly, when it comes to the flatness of some views expressed herein, the
only thing to do is to flip them over to display the soft underbelly of pure
greasy flour.
Flour Power?
OIr maybe... You have heard of Flip Wilson (RIP) ... Now we have Flippancy
Wallace ??<G>
Say hello to Joan Collins for me when you next see her !!
Love
Michael
Michael Wallace
>
> On Sun, 10 Oct 1999 11:38:01 -0700 "JR" wrote:
>
> > I visit this newsgroup on occasion, but seldom add question or comment.
The
> > confrontations dominate
>
> Well, JR, the thing is....confrontation is inevitable.
When you are blind to the options... Yep.. That's about right!
>
> You see...the eckist purpose for being here is to get new cult members.
> I know this...I was an eckist when I came here. Eckists
> believe that they *do* have the highest and only path to God, and
> that you don't get to God in any way until & unless you become a
> member of eckankar.
Sharon... You are priceless with your total misunderstanding of everything
this path represents. There really is no response to this splurge of waffle
that is so deeply meaningless.
Sometime I wonder how you ever managed to be a member of the ECK teachings
at all... Everything you say here represents your complete and total *miss*
of everything that Paul and Harold have been trying to get across to people.
Or should I say a complete and total *Ms* ... Knowing you are such a modern
girl <G>
For the record... The ECK teaching claim to be the quickest path to God, not
the only. And I know Shazz will find some quote somewhere that says
something else, but the official stance is as I state... The quickest, not
the only.
>
> Now, there are (in their minds) people who just refuse to accept,
> or just aren't "ready," or...tools of the Kal, hell-bent on keeping
> people entrapped in false, lower teachings, which in their minds, is
> anything OTHER than eckankar.
He sure is doing a good job with you Sharon!!! <G>
>
> When I came here as an eckist, I *did* come here with an open, loving
> heart...ready to be a good co-worker and share Spirit. I also *did*
> respect all paths, and extend divine unconditional love to all souls.
I remember that loving open heart... It seems it forgot to be open and
loving on occasions... And not just with certain people on certain lists...
But I seem to recall that even while you were still supposedly an ECKists
you had some pretty sharp things to say to people...
But maybe you forgot yet again?? <G>
Of course you did!
>
> To be honest, when I got here...I learned that I wasn't like the other
> eckists here...and most of THEM have been here for a long, long time...
Surprise surprise!
>
> Well...to make a long story short, I sort of woke up, saw the truth,
> and left the cult. True, much of it was because it started out by just
> asking questions which no one would answer.
You know... I don;t recall a single question you ever asked that could not
be answered. Maybe it wasn't answered the way your bias WANTED it
answered... Is this what you are saying here??
Things the other
> "detractors" posted, well...they let me know my having questions WASN'T
> because of "doubts deliberately implanted by the Mahanta for my
> spiritual growth, to overcome" OR attempts by the KAL to deceive me.
> (as the eckbooks teach.)
You know... If you go through David Lane's book carefully, you see it is so
full of holes it is a wonder that it floats at all. A masterpiece of modern
journalism, though... As the keeping the story floating despite the holes
seems to be a yardstick for a good journalist now <G>
>
> My detracting, well...it just happened. I was here, I was an eckist, I
> was sort of surprised at everything that happened...well, I just found
> myself posting what *I* was learning & discovering & stuff...
No... It is just Attention Seeking Sharon...
You are indeed suffering from Attention Seeking Syndrome, and you are TRULY
as A.S.S.
>
> In the process, well....I started hearing from a lot of lurkers out
> there.
Yes?
Care to publish THIER private correspondance as well?? <G>
>
> My eyes are still being opened, you know.
Try matchsticks... Unused... and stand near an open flame... Works every
time <G> You sure see the light, alrighty!!
>
>
> >and frankly, I have always felt confrontation
> > without true possibility of effect rather meaningless.
>
> "Effect" is not the point of "detracting," JR.
Oh yes it is Sharon... A.S.S. is MUCH in evidence here <G>
>
> Although, I've been thanked profusely by many "lurkers" it's
> usually AFTER the fact....I'm just sort of posting my own truth
> here...don't think much about the effect it's having.
Funny... You used to decry these very words when Nathan spoke them to this
NG... What's the difference... The grass is greener in your side of the
bias??
>
> And...I must say, when I was an eckist here, Joe and Lurk certainly
> weren't trying to talk me into leaving or anything...they just sort
> of stood back, I'd say....let me make up my own mind. And that's the
> honest truth.
HA!
Now THAT is one of your better tales of exageration. Lurk and Joe post anti
Eckankar sentiments with 98% of their posts... And they CERTAINLY aren't
trying to convinve ANYONE to leave <VBG>
That was one of your best yet Shazz!! <G>
>
> If anything convinced me that eckankar was a lie, it was a combination
> of the "teachings" and my taking an honest look at them, and what I
> believed in...and seeing evidence in the "teachings" (I'd sort of
> skimmed over and ignored a lot) that eckankar was a lie. And...the
> public and private behavior of the eckists here, as well as looking
> back over almost 15 years in the cult, and carefully examining
> EVERYTHING, both "inner" and "outer" .... well...there was NOTHING that
> spoke in eckankar's favor.
I would say a lack of real spiritual depth would be the problem here,
really. SO many people discover so much of real value to themselves, and not
from reading books, but through the life experience and meeting and dealing
with the ECK Masters...
But I guess you never really got that, hey?
Maybe they already knew what you were like?
>
> You see...what *I* believe in are the spiritual truths that twitchell
> stole from elsewhere. The ones freely available to seekers from many
> good & reliable sources.
Scientology for one... Only US$350,000 to get "clear"... VERY reasonable.
>
> And...the eckankar "inner" was a deceptive lie, too. I'm not saying
> that there isn't a real "inner," or real experiences...but, well...the
> REAL ones are NOT in any way connected to this cult.
Priceless... How you pick the difference is beyond me.
You haven't really told any one about your "real" inner experiences
Sharon... Maybe you should start talking about this rather than just hitting
the venom and spite replay button every time you post??
>
> >
> > I have studied many paths, some more serious than others... still, I
find no cause to attack that which served me.
>
>
> It's not really attacking, JR, and....it's especially not directed
> toward something which served us.
HA! Not real;ly attacking?? Sharon... What a weird and wonderfully starnge
world you must live in inside that head of yours. I recommend living in the
heart for a change, however. It opens up all sorts of loving happy moments
that one day you might re-discover.
I seem to recall that happiness of getting to a seminar that you wrote
about... The mircale of the ECK finding you a room for nothing... Blah blah
blah.
About as meaningful then as it is now, I guess?
>
> We're simply stating the truth we discovered, about something which did
> NOT serve us...but rather, lied to us and deceived us.
I haven't heard ONE truth you have "discovered Sharon... Not a one.
Please tell us them... Please??
>
> We're simply doing consumer education, JR. And for me, well...I've
> posted many times, I'm doing what I wish someone had done for me many
> years ago. As it turned out, thanks to the "detractors" here who
> continue to do it, well...better late than never, when it comes to
> leaving a cult!!!
What ... You wanted people to spam your Email? Fill up your NG with
erroneous crap that is repeated ad nauseum??
>
> I, personally, greatly appreciate the fact that the "detractors" are
> here. I owe them so much more than I can possibly express.
Het I love 'em too... But only because they are such fun to play with in the
sandpit! <G>
Yawn...
I don;t know why I waste my time on this woman... Maybe she will understand
the very simple and basic thing I have been saying for the past year to
her... It is what YOU get from something that counts... Other people's
dreams and bias are theirs, and theirs alone.
There is real freedom in discovering your own path within all this nonsense,
so I wish all those who may be viewing this well in choosing their own
direction. We can't really go "wrong" but in a sense... More quickly to
ourselves, or more slowly.
After that we have a much better sense of direction... But we got to get to
ourselves first. It has a lot to do with being Human, and being real.
Read the Velveteen Rabbit for further instructions <G>
Love
Michael
Mahavahana
<wall...@better.net.au> wrote:
> For the record... The ECK teaching claim to be the quickest path to God, not
> the only. And I know Shazz will find some quote somewhere that says
> something else, but the official stance is as I state... The quickest, not
> the only.
Sorry, but Paulji stated many times that one must meet and follow the
LEM of the times to get the the SUGMAD. (SKS)
Paulji stated that if one is an "eckist" and leaves eckankar, then one
has to go through many lifetimes, only to get the opportunty to once
again meet the LEM and START ALL OVER AGAIN. (IWL)
Nowhere in the eck literature will you find any mention of non-ECK
masters that are as high in the God-scheme as ECK masters.
Nowhere.
Recall the invocation from the 2nd initiation? Something about getting
off the evolutionary track (takes yugas and eons) and getting onto the
fast track of the great path of ECKANKAR! Where one can get to the
Highest in one lifetime!
Unfortunately . . . Harji has stated that EVERY Eckist presently in
Eckankar today was an Eckist in a past lifetime.
Every eckist! Not too encouraging.
Then we have the case of the last Mahanta LEM of Eckankar. He went
from initiation 14 to initiation O.
Also not too encouraging.
The teachings of Eckankar are very plain about just what it takes to
get beyond the realms of mind to the Soul Planes.
It takes the LEM of the times to hook one up to the Eck Stream.
Eckankar offers *no* substitutes or alternatives to this *true* hookup
to the (ahem) lifeforce of God.
Even Shabda yoga is dissed by Paulji and Harji.
This is all, of course, a roundabout way of saying that Michael Wallace
doesn't know what he's talking about.
He talks about the official position of eckankar, but he can't provide
any quotes from any of eckanakar's leaders to back up his contention.
The offical position of eckankar is this: Eckankar isn't just the
fastest way, it's the *only* way to the highest and truest God (SUGMAD).
"There is no way to God except through the path of ECKANKAR, and there
can be no denying of this." -- Paul Twitchell
Just one quote among dozens . . .
> >
> > When I came here as an eckist, I *did* come here with an open, loving
> > heart...ready to be a good co-worker and share Spirit. I also *did*
> > respect all paths, and extend divine unconditional love to all souls.
>
> I remember that loving open heart... It seems it forgot to be open and
> loving on occasions... And not just with certain people on certain lists...
> But I seem to recall that even while you were still supposedly an ECKists
> you had some pretty sharp things to say to people...
>
> But maybe you forgot yet again?? <G>
>
> Of course you did!
For those that are new to all of this, here's the perspective of one
that was around at the time:
Sharon came here as an Eckist. She tried to be friendly with all here,
eckists and eck critics alike.
Through some soul searching and some critical inquiry, Sharon saw
Eckankar is a new light.
Sharon began asking some questions and started stating her new
perspective on Eckankar.
Michael Wallace then began his career of commenting upon every Sharon
post, calling her insane, deluded, possessed, and a host of other
personal insults.
The number of abusive posts Wallace has made to Sharon no doubt number
in the thousands.
>
> Things the other
> > "detractors" posted, well...they let me know my having questions WASN'T
> > because of "doubts deliberately implanted by the Mahanta for my
> > spiritual growth, to overcome" OR attempts by the KAL to deceive me.
> > (as the eckbooks teach.)
>
> You know... If you go through David Lane's book carefully, you see it is so
> full of holes it is a wonder that it floats at all. A masterpiece of modern
> journalism, though... As the keeping the story floating despite the holes
> seems to be a yardstick for a good journalist now <G>
LOL! Name one error in Lane's scholarship.
They love to claim Lane's work was full of errors; yet when challenged
to provide evidence of just *one* of these errors, they clam up right
quick!
>
> >
> > My detracting, well...it just happened. I was here, I was an eckist, I
> > was sort of surprised at everything that happened...well, I just found
> > myself posting what *I* was learning & discovering & stuff...
>
> No... It is just Attention Seeking Sharon...
>
> You are indeed suffering from Attention Seeking Syndrome, and you are TRULY
> as A.S.S.
What a way to speak to a woman.
FTTDN, Michael Wallace is a member of the clergy of Eckankar.
>
> >
> > In the process, well....I started hearing from a lot of lurkers out
> > there.
>
> Yes?
>
> Care to publish THIER private correspondance as well?? <G>
Funny MW . . . you had no problem posting Sykes correspondence. Why do
you have a problem with Sharon posting Rich Smith's hate mail?
--
He goes on and on here I see . . . typical Wallace post to Sharon.
> >
> > And...I must say, when I was an eckist here, Joe and Lurk certainly
> > weren't trying to talk me into leaving or anything...they just sort
> > of stood back, I'd say....let me make up my own mind. And that's the
> > honest truth.
>
> HA!
>
> Now THAT is one of your better tales of exageration. Lurk and Joe post anti
> Eckankar sentiments with 98% of their posts... And they CERTAINLY aren't
> trying to convinve ANYONE to leave <VBG>
You're right about that. We're just former Eckists that feel some
small obligation in sharing our experience and commenting on the
teachings of eckankar.
Speaking for myself, I told Sharon she should do what her heart tells
her, whether it's stay or go.
>
>
> That was one of your best yet Shazz!! <G>
>
> >
> > If anything convinced me that eckankar was a lie, it was a combination
> > of the "teachings" and my taking an honest look at them, and what I
> > believed in...and seeing evidence in the "teachings" (I'd sort of
> > skimmed over and ignored a lot) that eckankar was a lie. And...the
> > public and private behavior of the eckists here, as well as looking
> > back over almost 15 years in the cult, and carefully examining
> > EVERYTHING, both "inner" and "outer" .... well...there was NOTHING that
> > spoke in eckankar's favor.
>
> I would say a lack of real spiritual depth would be the problem here,
> really.
From a guy that goes around calling people wanker and ass, now comes
his sermon on "real" spirituality:
many people discover so much of real value to themselves, and not
> from reading books, but through the life experience and meeting and dealing
> with the ECK Masters...
>
> But I guess you never really got that, hey?
>
> Maybe they already knew what you were like?
MW, the new Tom Flamma of Eckankar. The one guy that's got all these
stories of great miracles. There's one in every group.>
>
> >
> > >
> > > I have studied many paths, some more serious than others... still, I
> find no cause to attack that which served me.
> >
> >
> > It's not really attacking, JR, and....it's especially not directed
> > toward something which served us.
>
> HA! Not real;ly attacking?? Sharon... What a weird and wonderfully starnge
> world you must live in inside that head of yours. I recommend living in the
> heart for a change, however. It opens up all sorts of loving happy moments
> that one day you might re-discover.
LOL
>
> I seem to recall that happiness of getting to a seminar that you wrote
> about... The mircale of the ECK finding you a room for nothing... Blah blah
> blah.
>
> About as meaningful then as it is now, I guess?
(Psst . . . eckists think these things all arise from the "eck force"
that's channeled by the LEM. In other words, they think that if one
prays and gets results, it's from this "ECK" thing)
Just cult-think.
> > We're simply doing consumer education, JR. And for me, well...I've
> > posted many times, I'm doing what I wish someone had done for me many
> > years ago. As it turned out, thanks to the "detractors" here who
> > continue to do it, well...better late than never, when it comes to
> > leaving a cult!!!
>
> What ... You wanted people to spam your Email? Fill up your NG with
> erroneous crap that is repeated ad nauseum??
LOL
>
> >
> > I, personally, greatly appreciate the fact that the "detractors" are
> > here. I owe them so much more than I can possibly express.
>
> Het I love 'em too... But only because they are such fun to play with in the
> sandpit! <G>
>
>
> Yawn...
>
> I don;t know why I waste my time on this woman...
Oh, we all thought it was because you "loved" her . . .
Maybe she will understand
> the very simple and basic thing I have been saying for the past year to
> her... It is what YOU get from something that counts... Other people's
> dreams and bias are theirs, and theirs alone.
>
> There is real freedom in discovering your own path within all this nonsense,
> so I wish all those who may be viewing this well in choosing their own
> direction. We can't really go "wrong" but in a sense... More quickly to
> ourselves, or more slowly.
>
> After that we have a much better sense of direction... But we got to get to
> ourselves first. It has a lot to do with being Human, and being real.
>
> Read the Velveteen Rabbit for further instructions <G>
Whatever . . .
Go to your own satsang, worship service, or private eck chatline for
your own private eck-Idaho. Or, make A.R.E. a moderated newsgroup if
you want to drive out the infidels.
You don't seem to understand that this is a place of free speech, that
Eckankar has a slew of skeletons in its closet, and that people will
inevitably come along to speak their own (non-partyline) truth.
You like to give sermons; well, here's a sermon just for you: You
can't control this newsgroup, and the more you try to control people
with insults and ridicule, the more you reflect poorly on your religion.
Amen.
JR
be recognized...
The point I would discuss is whether any of this really matters to anyone. I
read about the Masters of the Variag long before seeing any of Twitchells
work and I understand from some of the postings that some people feel
betrayed. For myself, I question whether I have ever had an original
thought, or at least one that another might not have had previously. But,
does it matter?
Religious practice doesn't seem to be about reading the ideas and thoughts
of others, but rather the exploration of awareness. Certainly we are all on
that journey whether we like it or not. Certainly all the figures of
historical spiritual consequence were human beings who like the rest of us
had their failings. Now, that shouldn't be misconstrued... I am not content
to sit hoping my failings will leave me. I persist in committing errors and
hope that I will learn from those errors. In fact, many times I misstep
(spiritually-mentally-emotionally-and yes even physically).
My point is that when I focus on finding an external source on which I can
lay some blame, how could that possible assist me? As I sit, typing these
words (for my own benefit, I would add), I perceive within this existence
only two points of awareness. One is my own. The fact that the rest of you
are here for my amusement is astounding, don't you think?
By the way, Joan is out gathering flowers, now. I am sure, however, that she
would want me to pass on her greetings.
Paul Jones
Eckankar and Jesus......please stick to the topic in the subject headings. I
was looking for information on this topic. And everything was talked about but
this subject
Mahavahana
> there was six posts here, none of these had anything to do with the subject
> Eckankar and Jesus......please stick to the topic in the subject headings. I
> was looking for information on this topic. And everything was talked about but
> this subject
But Paul! Check out Sharon's post, the one that came immediately after
your original post on this thread!
Most of what you want to know you'll find there.
> check out my web site:
> UFO's, Ascension, Lightwork
> http://hometown.aol.com/gracewatcher/
davidbarnes
"Mahavahana" <Mahav...@calistoga.com> wrote:
> On 12 Oct 1999 01:48:28 GMT gracew...@aol.com (Paul Jones) wrote:
> > there was six posts here, none of these had anything to do with the
subject
> > Eckankar and Jesus......please stick to the topic in the subject
headings. I
> > was looking for information on this topic. And everything was talked
about but
> > this subject
>
> But Paul! Check out Sharon's post, the one that came immediately
after
> your original post on this thread!
>
> Most of what you want to know you'll find there.
Even a non-Eckist such as Paul Jones like to discourse with an A.S.S.
Mahavahana
wrote:
>
> Even a non-Eckist such as Paul Jones like to discourse with an A.S.S.
There you go! Underneath all the talk of love and spurchal ideals, you
find the angry little man.
davidbarnes
"Mahavahana" <Mahav...@calistoga.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:19:38 GMT davidbarnes <david...@my-deja.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Even a non-Eckist such as Paul Jones like to discourse with an
A.S.S.
>
> There you go! Underneath all the talk of love and spurchal ideals,
you
> find the angry little man.
I extend my sympathy and love to you.
Dave
sharon v.c.
On Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:10:57 GMT "Mahavahana" wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:19:38 GMT davidbarnes
>
> >
> > Even a non-Eckist such as Paul Jones like to discourse with an A.S.S.
>
> There you go! Underneath all the talk of love and spurchal ideals, you
> find the angry little man.
>
You know, I hate to say it, because generally, well...I
just tend to like everyone.
But yes...watching Dave, and seeing what I see there, well...
basically, I like Dave. I knew him when I was an eckist, you
know.
He's basically new to the cult. And it's sad. I know what's
happening to him. It's not hard to understand, given the
context of his whole life.
I remember when he was posting as...was it Rod or Ron McKernan
last summer? And, the vicious way the eckies responded to
him. He backed down, licked the hands of his cultmasters in
a pitiful attempt to curry favor...
He's doing the same thing now, but getting worse.
Dave Barnes, human being, is being replaced by Dave Barnes,
indoctrinated and controlled cult member.
It's a sad thing to see. But...it's probably been obvious
all to you, Joe, and the others who've been out longer than I
have.
Oh, well...maybe he'll wake up some day. I did. It took
almost 15 years, though. But...I don't think I worked as hard
at being brainwashed as Dave is. I always had funny
feelings...Oh, yes...I believed. But...I never totally
believed in the lies. Just the good stuff. The stuff that's
available freely, elsewhere. Like the library, where twitchler
stole it from to begin with...they didn't have Barnes & Noble
back then.
Sharon
davidbarnes
"sharon v.c." <sharo...@myremarq.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:10:57 GMT "Mahavahana" wrote:
> > On Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:19:38 GMT davidbarnes
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Even a non-Eckist such as Paul Jones like to discourse with an
A.S.S.
> >
> > There you go! Underneath all the talk of love and spurchal ideals,
you
> > find the angry little man.
> >
>
> You know, I hate to say it, because generally, well...I
> just tend to like everyone.
>
> But yes...watching Dave, and seeing what I see there, well...
> basically, I like Dave. I knew him when I was an eckist, you
> know.
I like you too Sharon, because I feel that you are sincere in your
motives for writing here. Just like the Jehovah Witness' that come to my
door. If I was a Christian and believed that if you didn't accept Jesus
as your savior that you were going to hell for eternity, I would also
try to speak to as many people as I could. Yet, your concerns have no
basis in reality. Eckankar is not a cult, it is a religion as acceptable
as any other of the orthodox religions, just younger. And unlike the
people who come to my door to preach, you are not polite or professional
in your approach, unfortunately.
To write here as you do daily, makes you seem and to be perceived like
the worst kind of bigot. Yet, for me, behind all the name calling and
steretyping you do, I feel you have a good heart albeit it you're very
confused at this point.
Love in ECK,
Mahavahana
wrote:
> In article <l4JM3.8434$%62.1...@c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com>,
> "Mahavahana" <Mahav...@calistoga.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:19:38 GMT davidbarnes <david...@my-deja.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Even a non-Eckist such as Paul Jones like to discourse with an
> A.S.S.
> >
> > There you go! Underneath all the talk of love and spurchal ideals,
> you
> > find the angry little man.
>
>
> Dave
Extending an apology would be more apt . . . but whatever.
You call people asses, you have to expect them to say something about
it Dave.
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
davidbarnes
"Mahavahana" <Mahav...@calistoga.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:20:16 GMT davidbarnes <david...@my-deja.com>
> wrote:
> > In article
<l4JM3.8434$%62.1...@c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com>,
> > "Mahavahana" <Mahav...@calistoga.com> wrote:
> > > On Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:19:38 GMT davidbarnes
<david...@my-deja.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Even a non-Eckist such as Paul Jones like to discourse with an
> > A.S.S.
> > >
> > > There you go! Underneath all the talk of love and spurchal
ideals,
> > you
> > > find the angry little man.
> >
> > I extend my sympathy and love to you.
> >
> > Dave
>
> Extending an apology would be more apt . . . but whatever.
>
> You call people asses, you have to expect them to say something about
> it Dave.
I'll gladly meet you in person to discuss this in a friendly way
Mahavahana. That way we can eliminate some of the misunderstandings that
seem to be occuring as a result of this written medium.
Dave
Mahavahana
How bizarre is that . . .
Sorry Dave, I've neither the time or the fainest desire.
Plus, if you can't meet the Eck Masters in person, you can hardly
expect to meet me.
davidbarnes
"Mahavahana" <Mahav...@calistoga.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:17:02 GMT davidbarnes <david...@my-deja.com>
> wrote:
Too bad we won't be meeting. I understand better than one might think
how you and others may feel, sometimes, to an extent, about ECK,
Eckankar etc.
My best to you,
arel...@home.com
Michael Wallace wrote:
>
> sharon v.c. <sharo...@myremarq.com> wrote in message
> news:d4cM3.7444$%62.1...@c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com...
> >
> > On Sun, 10 Oct 1999 11:38:01 -0700 "JR" wrote:
> >
> > > I visit this newsgroup on occasion, but seldom add question or comment.
> The
> > > confrontations dominate
> >
> > Well, JR, the thing is....confrontation is inevitable.
>
> When you are blind to the options... Yep.. That's about right!
>
> >
> > You see...the eckist purpose for being here is to get new cult members.
> > I know this...I was an eckist when I came here. Eckists
> > believe that they *do* have the highest and only path to God, and
> > that you don't get to God in any way until & unless you become a
> > member of eckankar.
>
> Sharon... You are priceless with your total misunderstanding of everything
> this path represents. There really is no response to this splurge of waffle
> that is so deeply meaningless.
>
> Sometime I wonder how you ever managed to be a member of the ECK teachings
> at all... Everything you say here represents your complete and total *miss*
> of everything that Paul and Harold have been trying to get across to people.
Sharon raised these three points:
1) Eckankar's mission (and many of its members) is to get new members.
2) Eckankar writings revere eckankar as the "highest" and "only" true
path to God.
3) To experience such lofty heights requires membership in eckankar.
This has been my experience of eckists and eckankar when I was a member.
>
> Or should I say a complete and total *Ms* ... Knowing you are such a modern
> girl <G>
>
> For the record... The ECK teaching claim to be the quickest path to God, not
> the only. And I know Shazz will find some quote somewhere that says
> something else, but the official stance is as I state... The quickest, not
> the only.
Here's something that resembles an attempt to respond to the points
Sharon raised. Let's all give Michael a big round of applause. (Miracles
do happen.)
As much as I'm tickled to see you respond to a point, I have to chuckle
at the distinction, (or should I say non distinction) you make.
It is no longer official stance that Eckankar is the highest and only
path to God, but the fastest? Yeah, that's different. <lol> Eckists
still get to wallow in the arrogance, elitism, and insularity the new
and improved official stance continues to cultivate. Fastest,
highest....what's the difference. Geez. Like it's a fricken horse raise
to get to the heart of God.
As Don King says, "Only in America, only in America!"
Besides, Klemp may have tempered his public comments (which I would
guess has more to do with public relations), but has he altered any of
the elitist rhetoric in the discourses? Not that I can see/saw.
I haven't read anything by Klemp which demonstrated to me he sincerely
believes there are equal or better paths than eckankar.
Oh well, Michael, keep trying. One day you might respond to the points
raised and actually contribute a reasonable counter point. We're looking
for a double miracle. Until then.....
With all the LOVE you give Sharon,
Lurk
Michael Wallace
CB <cultb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3803D604...@hotmail.com...
>
> Bottom line to this thread....
>
> Jesus never knew about Eckankar.
>
> The Eckies would like to believe that He was an Essene and studied under
> Zadok, except, as usual, not one shred of evidence that Eckankar was
> around before Twitchell. It is never mentioned ANYWHERE or ANYPLACE in
> the history of the entire fucking world before 1965.
Beep...
You haven't been reading your Essenne books here Sri Alf.
It is the Essennes that assert that Jesus was a member of their teaching,
and from what I understand (Not being a specialist in this area, it is just
an understanding given by the reading of boks) it seems pretty much a given
that JC was raised as an Essenne.
Love
Michael
Michael Wallace
<arel...@home.com> wrote in message news:3803D9BA...@home.com...
> Oh well, Michael, keep trying. One day you might respond to the points
> raised and actually contribute a reasonable counter point. We're looking
> for a double miracle. Until then.....
>
> With all the LOVE you give Sharon,
Why thank you Sri Lurk... Your kind regard is muchly appreciated <G>
Love
Michael
sharon v.c.
> Sharon raised these three points:
>
> 1) Eckankar's mission (and many of its members) is to get new members.
> 2) Eckankar writings revere eckankar as the "highest" and "only" true
> path to God.
> 3) To experience such lofty heights requires membership in eckankar.
>
> This has been my experience of eckists and eckankar when I was a member.
>
> >
> > For the record... The ECK teaching claim to be the quickest path to God, not
> > the only. And I know Shazz will find some quote somewhere that says
> > something else, but the official stance is as I state... The quickest, not
> > the only.
>
> Here's something that resembles an attempt to respond to the points
> Sharon raised. Let's all give Michael a big round of applause. (Miracles
> do happen.)
Bullshit, Lurk. Miracles don't happen when it comes to fanatic
cultmembers...it's unfortunate that in reading yours, I have to
read some of wallaby's crap. I hope you were being sarcastic.
Changing the advertising slogan to "quickest" path is bullshit.
>
> As much as I'm tickled to see you respond to a point, I have to chuckle
> at the distinction, (or should I say non distinction) you make.
>
> It is no longer official stance that Eckankar is the highest and only
> path to God, but the fastest?
Yeah, that's different. Eckists
> still get to wallow in the arrogance, elitism, and insularity the new
> and improved official stance continues to cultivate. Fastest,
> highest....what's the difference. Geez. Like it's a fricken horse raise
> to get to the heart of God.
>
> As Don King says, "Only in America, only in America!"
>
> Besides, Klemp may have tempered his public comments (which I would
> guess has more to do with public relations), but has he altered any of
> the elitist rhetoric in the discourses? Not that I can see/saw.
>
> I haven't read anything by Klemp which demonstrated to me he sincerely
> believes there are equal or better paths than eckankar.
It's still the same...how many times have they changed that
"official slogan?" When I joined, it was...damn, what was
it...a spiritual path, or something. Then it was a way of
life. May have been some others. I remember the "New-Age
Religion" slogan...and now it's "The Religion of the Light
and Sound." Unless they've changed it again...
The Shariyat is still the same bullshit. Klemp still tells
everyone to read it. He's still supporting the lies, trying
to coverup and whitewash.
You know...I had an email tonight from an ex-eckist. I'm
going to copy it...he's not someone who posts here or anywhere.
This is what he had to say:
"I am also an ex- eckist. I have been through Lane's web site, and
digested his information. I had already dropped out of Eck when I came
across his information.
Frankly it seems clear that Twitchell made up the Eck masters, and
Harold must be aware of this fact. Every eck book then is a complete
fabrication. Every story, every example Harold uses etc. Is there any
other possibility? I am confounded by this deceit."
You know, Lurk...I *did* try to give Klemp the benefit of the
doubt...tried to rationalize, find reasonable explations,
etc. That may not have always been apparent in my postings
here, I'm sure....but, well...I'm actually *still* trying to
understand. I do adopt a certain position here, but...I'm not
a harsh, judgmental person. I'm not a hateful person. And,
anyone who knows me knows...I don't carry grudges. I forget
things almost immediately...which believe me, my children were
always quite happy about! I'd ground them for something, then
the next day I would have forgotten yesterday's transgression.
But...well, my relationship with God is another story. And...
Klemp was a big part of that for almost 15 years.
I've even seriously considered that more than likely, he *is*
schizophrenic. Which explains a lot of things...and, I *have*
seen hints of it, in his talks...at the seminar, and in the
videos.
But still...on some level, at certain times, no matter how
deluded he is, well...there *must* be at least moments of
clarity, of realizing what he's doing.
And...the continued "missionary" indoctrination...like that
ridiculous holographic demographic researcher thing! Good
grief!!!
And you know, whether he's just deluded or not, the fact
remains...all that marketing and advertising stuff, well...
let's put it this way. If he truly was a "godman," it's not
a god I would choose to have anything to do with. It smells,
it's slimy, it's devious, it's manipulative...
But, I must say...it's a lot more subtle than the Jehovah's
Witnesses were.
So...yes, I *do* hate to say it, but....there is NO
justification for what Klemp's doing.
He, and those around him in MN, are guilty of fraud and
deception.
And I haven't even BEGUN to detract...
Sharon
>
> Oh well, Michael, keep trying. One day you might respond to the points
> raised and actually contribute a reasonable counter point. We're looking
> for a double miracle. Until then.....
>
> With all the LOVE you give Sharon,
>
> Lurk
Mahavahana
On Wed, 13 Oct 1999 01:34:27 GMT davidbarnes <david...@my-deja.com>
I guess a lot of people have unwittingly bought stolen merchandise at
one time or another. Such is life!
sharon v.c.
On Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:05:35 -0400 CB wrote:
>
>
> "sharon v.c." wrote:
>
> But yes...watching Dave, and seeing what I see there, well...
>
> > basically, I like Dave. I knew him when I was an eckist, you
> > know.
> >
> > happening to him. It's not hard to understand, given the
> > context of his whole life.
> >
> >
>
> he came back crawling; they are gonna snub him again and that will be the
> last straw. Mark my words. He's too smart to go all the way.
>
No way, CB. They've got him hooked good. I'll betcha
an old Bobby Vinton album that he stays.
Hey...what happened most recently? *I* even posted some
eckstuff...quotes showing he should shut up & submit &
not question & rebel & stuff. And...that's exactly what
he did.
What's he doing now? Reading eckancrap...hu-ing...
being a willing victim, an active participant in the
brainwashing process! And...should he see the stolen
truths elsewhere, he's gonna see "the eck."
And yes...he's got a touch of the wannabe & canbe a
"master" some day. Oh YES!!! In spite of the errors the
NJ HIs are making, he's bound & determined to get out there
and be a good eckmissionary & channel for the ick, and save
all those poor lost souls in Princeton...
The cult has given him a false sense of power & control
& self-esteem that he was lacking in his life. It's
empowered him, although it's a false empowerment...
Well, it's not nice to talk about him like this in
public, actually. It's just very sad to see, you know?
Hugs,
Me
sharon v.c.
On Tue, 12 Oct 1999 19:18:31 GMT davidbarnes wrote:
>
> I like you too Sharon, because I feel that you are sincere in your
> motives for writing here.
Well, I think you're sincere too, Dave.
Just like the Jehovah Witness' that come to my door. If I was a
Christian and believed that if you didn't accept Jesus
> as your savior that you were going to hell for eternity, I would also try to speak to as many people as I could.
Dave...don't you see that it's YOU who is being like the
JWs? YOU are told that everyone is lost & struggling &
bound by the Kal & karma until they join your cult? YOU
are bound & determined to give "The Truth" to everyone?
In spite of....the KAL and its evil minions...like me?
I don't think anyone (well, maybe some...) is condemned
or lost or anything, and I don't believe that "salvation"
has anything to do with belonging to ANY organization or
following ANY specific teaching or path.
BUT...I DO know...your cult and its "masters" are lies.
Your cult is a trap. It's a dark hole of spiritual
blindness. I'm telling people to take a closer look. I
am NOT trying to silence you. On the contrary...it's eckists
who would like to silence ME.
Why don't you just leave it to God, whatever the heck God
is? Just let people consider both sides...and choose
objectively? Using their minds, hearts, and souls...
Maybe if the Klempster wasn't doing the marketing & pushing the
eckanmissionary stuff...carrying out twitch's "infiltration"
orders, former eckists wouldn't object as much.
Yet, your concerns have no
> basis in reality. Eckankar is not a cult, it is a religion as acceptable as any other of the orthodox religions, just younger.
My concerns DO have basis in reality, Dave.
Your cult has no basis in reality.
Oh...and your cult doesn't feel that other religions are
"acceptable." They're just...Kal-traps to be overcome.
>And unlike the people who come to my door to preach, you are not polite or professional
> in your approach, unfortunately.
No law says I have to be polite or professional, Dave.
Thank goodness, or quite a few eckies here wouldn't have
much to say, either! <ggg>
>
> To write here as you do daily, makes you seem and to be perceived like the worst kind of bigot.
Well, that's your opinion, Dave. Yes...the "bigot"
thing is a favorite ecksplanation. Don't look at what
we're saying...ignore the issues...don't answer questions.
We're just bigots, intolerant, etc.
> Yet, for me, behind all the name calling and
> steretyping you do, I feel you have a good heart albeit it you're very confused at this point.
Well, Dave...perhaps stereotyping is something I picked
up from your cult? Take a closer look at your "teachings,"
Dave.
I'm not at all confused anymore.
Oh...I believe Peter was asking about questioning the
"master?" Oh...close your eyes, Dave, you haven't been
in long enough to get the ECK Satsang Discourses, and
here's what they say:
"The Master was questioned openly during a seminar why he made certain
statements at one time, and later, in either a public lecture or in his
writings, completely reversed himself. It was explined that in speaking
to people, the Master must reach them at their various levels of
consciousness. It appeaars, at times, that he contradicts himself,
which is really not true. Truth is delivered in many ways and the
Master, in getting it across to those who are seeking, uses diverse
means in order to reach various seekers. So, his methods differ with
the individual. The main point to make clear is that he touches all
people in one way or another. He lifts up and stirs all persons who
will listen or read his works."
What bullshit. Well...maybe Lurk or Joe will have some
polite & professional comments on this crap.
"The chela must not make judgments of the Master nor of his words, but
must accept him for what he is and for what he says, for the only
criteria the seeker of Truth has to go by are his own human standards.
The Master cannot be judged by such standards, for he is the
representative of the SUGMAD and must be considered by laws which are
far beyond this physical universe. But the chela will make such
judgments despite his knowledge and often be disappointed in what he
sees in the outer actions and words of the Living ECK Master."
I should say so. You know, after I'd been in while, and
started hearing about Darwin, well...it just seemed funny.
I mean, Gail marrying Darwin only a year after her Godman
died.
I believe in love, you know. Earthly love, and its
corresponding spiritual love.
It just didn't make sense, somehow....and then, when
Harold got a divorce, well...yeah, he said #1 couldn't
handle his power flows...but damn, I'd also been taught
that the Master BALANCED all the chelas. He had a
daughter, you know. I mean...marriages aren't perfect,
but where there's love, you work on it...especially when
children are involved.
I stifled these thoughts, these doubts. Figured hey,
what do I know?
"Going one step beyond this point: the seeker of Truth must never try
to gain rewards by the performance of his duties with the Master. The
Master never gives out rewards for anything. It is true that the chela
will build up merits for himself so that when he passes through the
Gates of Death he is places in the other worlds according to what he
has done here. But, all in all, the chela must realize that the Master
is taking care of him. He must surrender himself, again and again, and
even though he doubts the Master, he should not have any anxiety,
because doubt is the starting point for great faith. Many a chela was
a doubter until that day when he saw the Master in his true light. All
things changed and he became so filled with faith that nothing could
shake him loose from it. The chela must never falter in his love for
the Master, for it will be found that the Master never, for one moment,
ceases in his love for the chela."
Well...I did my best, Dave.
You know...well, those doubts. I got here and heard
about Anya. You know, the young chela who was with
Twitchell the night he died. Oh, well...he died happy.
This isn't rumor, Dave. It's fact.
I understand she and her husband had an "open" marriage.
And of course...well...when you're being boinked by the
incarnation of the SUGMAD, it sort of...sanctifies it?
And...gee, who was Gail off camping with that night?
Where was Darwin?
Unimportant, you say? Sorry...I have at least the same
standards for self-proclaimed "godman" as I do for
ordinary, flawed human beings.
And...there's the plagiarism, and the outright lies.
You know, Dave, well...you know I like to believe in the
tooth fairy & stuff (I do! I do!)
I can be a bit spacey. Parts of me, that is. Yes, I can
be a bit too gullible and trusting.
But...that's not all of me. Part of me has a lot of common
sense & stuff.
I may dress up for Halloween, but it's just make-believe.
I *do* know the difference...I know what's real.
Eckankar ISN'T real. I'm not deluding myself anymore.
Sharon
Rich
>
> You know...well, those doubts. I got here and heard
> about Anya. You know, the young chela who was with
> Twitchell the night he died. Oh, well...he died happy.
>
> This isn't rumor, Dave. It's fact.
>
> I understand she and her husband had an "open" marriage.
> And of course...well...when you're being boinked by the
> incarnation of the SUGMAD, it sort of...sanctifies it?
>
> And...gee, who was Gail off camping with that night?
> Where was Darwin?
Despicable speculation Sharon. There are no 'facts' to support any of
this.
--
o
|
~/|
_/ |\
/ | \
-/ | \
_ /____|___\_
(___________/
Rich~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Sailing the CyberSea~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ken
CB <cultb...@hotmail.com> wrote ...
:
: In fact, there are no facts supporting much of anything about Eckankar.
You just might get it yet, Alf. The fact is, the only fact that really matters
to me is what effect Eckankar has in my life. Does it answer questions
that I have? Does help me live my life better today? Does it help me
become a better person? This is true for the practitioner of any religion.
That's why even after all the stupid and evil things done in the name of
Christ over the last two thousand years, it is still a viable path for many.
: The whole damned travesty is speculation at best, Rich.
As are all of your rants here.
Ken
Mahavahana
> In fact, there are no facts supporting much of anything about Eckankar.
> Alfie says: " A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the
> rest".
Whoa . . . did Alfie write "The Boxer" and give the lyrics to Paul
Simon? I heard he was a great musician and lyricist, but man!
Step back, my friend, and look at the whole puzzle. There are
> many pieces missing. You have labelled Sharon "despicable" because it is
> a piece of dirt about Eckankar that may be true but STOP----- look
> around you---there are mountains of it you have to account for. Remember
> the movie "The Great Escape"? The POW's would dispose of dirt from the
> making of tunnels by filling up their pants and slowly walking around
> the Stalag compound releasing it in small increments.
OK now *you* wait CB. Isn't the movie you're thinking of "Stalag 17"?
But maybe you're right. "Escape" is the one with Steve McQueen I
believe.
Love those old war movies: John Wayne's stuff, "The Dirty Dozen,"
"Patton" and many other greats. So much better than the dreck coming
out now, for example "Three Kings." Lord what a piece of garbage!
the goal was to
> escape undetected. Perhaps that what Eckists can hope for in their
> subsequent lives. They avoid God and seek freedom by their own volition.
> Maybe Harold is trying to maintain credibility by disposing of the ECK
> dirt slowly and restructure the organization so it is more palatable and
> more in tune with today's discerning standards.
No "maybe" about it.
Sharon
CB <cultb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Rich wrote:
> >
> > sharon v.c. wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > You know...well, those doubts. I got here and heard
> > > about Anya. You know, the young chela who was with
> > > Twitchell the night he died. Oh, well...he died happy.
> > >
> > > This isn't rumor, Dave. It's fact.
> > >
> > > I understand she and her husband had an "open" marriage.
> > > And of course...well...when you're being boinked by the
> > > incarnation of the SUGMAD, it sort of...sanctifies it?
> > >
> > > And...gee, who was Gail off camping with that night?
> > > Where was Darwin?
> >
> > this.
This must be what Rich sent to me at home, in my private
email, after I explained to him, it was an unwelcome
intrusion and asked him not to do it.
But...well, of course, it would be expected. A clergyman
in this cult has no more respect for a person's space and
consciousness than his self-proclaimed "Godmen" do.
>
> In fact, there are no facts supporting much of anything about Eckankar.
As far as my "despicable speculation" goes...well, this
subject IS old...and, it's not just "despicable speculation."
And...funny, isn't it, that what's called "despicable
speculation" is something entirely different when it comes
to some of the eck clergy's accusations about "Esques."
The facts are what they are. It's not a secret that Godman
and Gail were separated at the time of his death. Anyone
who's not a cult member can, indeed, search out all the facts
and come to their own conclusions. I mean...get real, you
know? Okay...no one actually saw Paul & Anya, or Gail and
Darwin, "doing it" ... but, come on, get real. Anya is still
besotted with "Paulji." I shouldn't make fun of love...I
do think they loved each other...
And...hey, Harji was, indeed, "involved" with #2 when she was
his secretary! Another one of the "Mahanta's Children" said
that right here recently.
When I saw that "rumor" elsewhere, as a detractor, by the way,
well...you know, I didn't really believe it.
Until it was confirmed by an eckie, that is.
Funny...considering the old "Wisdom Note" I remember reading
years ago...I'll find it again. A letter to the chelas from
Harold, in the members-only "Mystic World" ... and let me tell
you, I was *quite* surprised to read it. Harold had to tell
everyone to cut out the bed-hopping at seminars, because of the
reputation it was giving the cult. This would have been in
the mid/late 80's. And...repeated messages over the years,
that if they had to drink, do it at home...behind closed doors.
Don't make the "highest path to God" look bad in public,
puh...leeze.
It's hilarious...the only defense they can come up with is...
accusing others of what THEY'RE guilty of...individuals or
whole other religions...
Dontcha love to see them scrambling around so frantically,
desperately...sort of like flies caught on the little round
metal plate in the middle of a gas stove burner...spinning
around frantically...buzzing angrily....but there's no
escape from the truth, is there?
Sharon
> The whole damned travesty is speculation at best, Rich. It's just like
> Alfie says: " A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the
> rest". Step back, my friend, and look at the whole puzzle. There are
> many pieces missing. You have labelled Sharon "despicable" because it is
> a piece of dirt about Eckankar that may be true but STOP----- look
> around you---there are mountains of it you have to account for. Remember
> the movie "The Great Escape"? The POW's would dispose of dirt from the
> making of tunnels by filling up their pants and slowly walking around
> the Stalag compound releasing it in small increments. the goal was to
> escape undetected. Perhaps that what Eckists can hope for in their
> subsequent lives. They avoid God and seek freedom by their own volition.
> Maybe Harold is trying to maintain credibility by disposing of the ECK
> dirt slowly and restructure the organization so it is more palatable and
> more in tune with today's discerning standards. People just don't fall
> for the same shit they did thirty years ago so he labels Eckankar an
> evolving religion built to suit the times. This is not really bad
> ideologically, but it has become harder and harder for Harji baby to
> maintain the "mythology" of Eckankar without looking lie a fool. In
> addition, he is a suffering agoraphobic and may as well be dead as Jesus
> to carry on the Living Eck Master scam.
>
> CB
>
> CB
>
--
"Happy Happy Joy Joy!!" --Ren & Stimpy
davidbarnes
CB <cultb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Have you ever wondered why Christ lasted so long?
Lots and lots of oysters? I don't get your point here CB. Stay on topic.
>Can't even tend his own sheep.
There's that sheep thing again by CB. Got Easter or the VCR on her mind
again it seems.
> Live with it. Squirm a little. It's good for you.
CB is an expert on snakes and worms and toilet paper. Let's all
contemplate or count our Rosary Beads over this one.
Dave
davidbarnes
CB <cultb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
a.r.e. or
> you lose your "Stripes"? This doesn't really sound like you at all. I
like
> the thing about Christ lasting long.<G>
>
> CB
Oh come on CB. 24/7 you guys rip and mock and often denigrate my
religion, one or two gentle digs and you "Threaten to call the the
Poobahs." BTW - Is that asshole or A.S.S.hole? There is a difference.
Rich
> > Rich wrote:
> > >
> > > sharon v.c. wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > You know...well, those doubts. I got here and heard
> > > > about Anya. You know, the young chela who was with
> > > > Twitchell the night he died. Oh, well...he died happy.
> > > >
> > > > This isn't rumor, Dave. It's fact.
> > > >
> > > > I understand she and her husband had an "open" marriage.
> > > > And of course...well...when you're being boinked by the
> > > > incarnation of the SUGMAD, it sort of...sanctifies it?
> > > >
> > > > And...gee, who was Gail off camping with that night?
> > > > Where was Darwin?
> > >
> > > Despicable speculation Sharon. There are no 'facts' to support any of
> > > this.
> As far as my "despicable speculation" goes...well, this
> subject IS old...and, it's not just "despicable speculation."
>
> And...funny, isn't it, that what's called "despicable
> speculation" is something entirely different when it comes
> to some of the eck clergy's accusations about "Esques."
>
> The facts are what they are.
And Sharon provides none, because she has none, as is typical of her
diaphanous 'facts'. This is Sharon, bloviating from the mofette of her
consciousness.
Rich
>
> wow, all I asked was what did Eckankar says about Jesus.
Paul, Eckankar doesn't say much about Jesus which is probably why you
didn't get a straight answer. He is mentioned here and there and some of
his teaching are referred to once in a while. But he is not part of the
basic teaching.
> Maybe I thought I was in an
> Eckankar newsroom. I did not think it would be all these acuations and
> hostility.
Yeah, the Eckankar detractors pretty much rule the roost here.
> I am a supporter that we all have paths to follow. I have one, and
> I'm sure that all of you have one. I did not mean to cause a stur here.
It wasn't you, it's SOP.
> I was
> just curious. Now that I know what this religion says about Jesus. How about
> this? Where is the love of God in all of this? In fact, where are the Eckists?
Mostly staying away from the spew here.
> I have heard from everyone but them. I want to hear from the Eckists.
Better to write(me or anyone) privately if you want to find out about
Eckankar.
> The
> reason why there are so many bashers here, cause eckists are not here.
It's the other way around.
> Where
> are you guys and gals?
> check out my web site:
> UFO's, Ascension, Lightwork
> http://hometown.aol.com/gracewatcher/
I scanned and and bookmarked it. I'll take a better looksee later.
Rich
>
> Rich <rsm...@aloha.net> wrote in message
> >
> >
> > > The facts are what they are.
> >
> > diaphanous 'facts'. This is Sharon, bloviating from the mofette of her
> > consciousness.
>
>
> Great Words Rich.... "Diaphanous" I have heard but the other two are very
> cool.
Trying to use the new words that I get from the "Cool Word List".
http://www.tlk-lists.com/join/
bloviate [v. BLOW-vee-ayt]
To bloviate is to speak loudly, verbosely, and at great length,
without saying much. It's an American word that was used by
(and to describe) President Warren Harding, who was known for
long, windy speeches.
In the early nineteenth century, it was fashionable to create
"latinized" words by adding Latin endings to ordinary words,
giving them an enhanced sense of importance or formality.
From blow (brag, boast) was created bloviate, to describe the
extended, self-important speeches of certain political figures.
mofette [n. moh-FET]
A hole in the ground from which gases emerge is a mofette.
Usually, the word refers to holes that release carbon dioxide,
possibly combined with smelly gases like hydrogen sulfide.
The gas that emerges from the hole is also called mofette.
Mofettes typically form in the last stages of volcanic action.
Most mofettes have a musty, dank, moldy smell. In Italian,
there is muffa (mold) and its diminutive, moffetta, which
migrated into French and then English to describe smelly
gaseous exhalations. More recently, the word was applied to
the geological source of such gases.
> But I have to agree... the terms "Facts" and "sharon" are for the most part
> mutually exclusive at best, oxymoronic at least, and just plain dumb
> otherwise.
And that's being kind!
Michael Wallace
Rich <rsm...@aloha.net> wrote in message news:380610...@aloha.net...
> Sharon wrote:
>
>
> > The facts are what they are.
>
> diaphanous 'facts'. This is Sharon, bloviating from the mofette of her
> consciousness.
"bloviating" ... "Mofette"... ??
Great Words Rich.... "Diaphanous" I have heard but the other two are very
cool.
But I have to agree... the terms "Facts" and "sharon" are for the most part
mutually exclusive at best, oxymoronic at least, and just plain dumb
otherwise.
Love
Michael
Paul Jones
was going to be called an ASS because of this. Maybe I thought I was in an
Eckankar newsroom. I did not think it would be all these acuations and
I'm sure that all of you have one. I did not mean to cause a stur here. I was
just curious. Now that I know what this religion says about Jesus. How about
this? Where is the love of God in all of this? In fact, where are the Eckists?
reason why there are so many bashers here, cause eckists are not here. Where
sharon v.c.
> wow, all I asked was what did Eckankar says about Jesus. I did not relalize I was going to be called an ASS because of this. Maybe I thought I was in an
> Eckankar newsroom.
Did someone call you an A.S.S.? Must've been a member of
eckankar...that's "their" term.
Hey, Paul...I tried to answer your question. This isn't a
cult-controlled newsgroup. If you want the propaganda, visit their
official websites & moderated lists.
I did not think it would be all these acuations and
> hostility.
Cults are like that. When members wake up and defect, and then speak
out publicly with what the cult doesn't want you to know, well...they
get upset. I was an eckist until a little over a year, you know.
No, you probably don't.
I am a supporter that we all have paths to follow. I have one, and
> I'm sure that all of you have one.
I like a lot of paths, but basically...I follow my own. Not actually a
path...I prefer to get off the beaten path & sort of wander off into
new territory & stuff...
I did not mean to cause a stur here. I was
> just curious.
They don't like questions. They just like blind acceptance...and new
members.
Now that I know what this religion says about Jesus. How about
> this? Where is the love of God in all of this?
Well...that's the thing, Paul. Not only is there no love of God in
this cult, there's no God. They have this thing called "Sugmad."
In fact, where are the Eckists?
> I have heard from everyone but them. I want to hear from the Eckists.
Uh, Paul...I glanced over the thread, and you *have* heard from
eckists. Michael Wallace and Rich are long-time veteran eckists. I
was in for 15 years, and they've been in a lot longer. Dave Barnes is
relatively new...I believe he's been in for roughly three years. I saw
on the thread list that JR responded to your thread...JR is, I don't
know what. He seems to like eckankar.
Lots of other eckists here. There's David "SoulWords"...Joey
Galuuk...oh, Joey's eck/elk clergy. Ken Stoltz(fus) is another eckist.
Jan is an eckist. Who else is there? I forget. The place is crawling
with them. Oh!! I'm almost forgetting...Nathan. He's not only an eck
clergyman, he's a former Eck Spiritual Aide. That's really hot shit.
Specially appointed by Harold.
The "detractors" are me...I'm sleazy and crude and infested with
maggots, ravaged by menopause, possessed by the Kal, etc. Lurk and
Mahavahana are veteran detractors. CB is a detractor. Who else is
here? I forget. People come & go...
Anyway...Paul Twitchell, aka God Incarnate (BTW he claims to have been
born of a virgin) said that we are Esques, alien heathen veggie pagan
subhuman enemies of THE ECK.
The
> reason why there are so many bashers here, cause eckists are not here. Where
> are you guys and gals?
Lots of 'em here. And the internet is crawling with them...of course,
many sites have official legal disclaimers.
There are some other sites about eckankar, too...the ones the cult
would prefer weren't. For more of what eckankar's about, see:
Whoops...I'm not home, don't have access...they're on a form letter I
post here...
> check out my web site:
> UFO's, Ascension, Lightwork
Hey...a couple people mentioned there was some interesting stuff
there...maybe I'll check it out next, since I'm on a faster computer...
I hope you're not another cult. Enough of them around.
ken
Michael Wallace <wall...@better.net.au> wrote ...
:
Rich wrote...
: > > The facts are what they are.
: >
: > And Sharon provides none, because she has none, as is typical of her
: > diaphanous 'facts'. This is Sharon, bloviating from the mofette of her
: > consciousness.
:
:
: "bloviating" ... "Mofette"... ??
:
: Great Words Rich.... "Diaphanous" I have heard but the other two are very
: cool.
I agree. Neither are in my dictionary, but then I *really* need a new
dictionary.
: But I have to agree... the terms "Facts" and "sharon" are for the most part
: mutually exclusive at best, oxymoronic at least, and just plain dumb
: otherwise.
Speaking of fine litachur, I came across this today (and immediately
thought of you know who <g>) . . .
Platitude, n. The fundamental element and special glory of popular
literature. A thought that snores in words that smoke. The wisdom of
a million fools in the diction of a dullard. A fossil sentiment in artificial
rock. A moral without the fable. All that is mortal of a departed truth.
A jelly-fish withering on the shore of the sea of thought. The cackle
surviving the egg. A desiccated epigram.
-- Ambrose Bierce, Excerpts from The Devil's Dictionary
Ken
spark
Rich <rsm...@aloha.net> and Michael Wallace wrote:
> > But I have to agree... the terms "Facts" and "sharon" are for the most
part
> > mutually exclusive at best, oxymoronic at least, and just plain dumb
> > otherwise.
>
> And that's being kind!
I can't believe how well the 'block sender' option in OE5 works! Suddenly I
don't have to read those screeds of hers any more. If I ever feel the need
I can read one of her thousands of earlier ones... A few selective blocks
and the 'tone' in a.r.e. is almost civilized. Lurk, CB, Mahawhatever come
up with interesting stuff, but no more Sharon... what a relief. The beauty
is I don't even have to see her response to this....<smile> and if she
blocks me, even better. What's the real world parallel? TWO elephants in
the living room with the lights out? Ugh... gross.
I'm sure someone here must know what the H. stands for? Hellish? Hydrant?
"Heck-of-a-story," what?
Still thinking about the Padded Room analogy.....<laughter>,
csk
spark
ken <kens...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:7u784o$5lo$1...@autumn.news.rcn.net...
> Platitude, n. The fundamental element and special glory of popular
> literature. A thought that snores in words that smoke. The wisdom of
> a million fools in the diction of a dullard. A fossil sentiment in
artificial
> rock. A moral without the fable. All that is mortal of a departed truth.
> A jelly-fish withering on the shore of the sea of thought. The cackle
> surviving the egg. A desiccated epigram.
>
> -- Ambrose Bierce, Excerpts from The Devil's Dictionary
>
Now here is an original quote.
Not the recycled crap that flows through here so often. Doesn't matter if
one agrees with it At least someone had an ounce (in this case a kilo) of
creativity and an ability to have a freaking original thought, or at least
make an unoriginal one sound original which in itself is pretty creative....
Thanks, Ken.
csk
PS - I don't give a rip what she says... I'm so relieved not to see
sharon's various names pop up in my window anymore... I better stop, I'm
making myself laugh to hard in the morning. Amazing the inane glee one can
have from not having to read that lame, compulsive, tourette's syndrome
writing of hers.
cackling without an egg,
csk
Michael Wallace
spark <sp...@gatezone1.com> wrote in message
news:8TFN3.1748$0m3....@typhoon01.swbell.net...
>
> ken <kens...@erols.com> wrote in message
> news:7u784o$5lo$1...@autumn.news.rcn.net...
>
> > Platitude, n. The fundamental element and special glory of popular
> > literature. A thought that snores in words that smoke. The wisdom of
>
> PS - I don't give a rip what she says... I'm so relieved not to see
> sharon's various names pop up in my window anymore... I better stop, I'm
> making myself laugh to hard in the morning. Amazing the inane glee one
can
> have from not having to read that lame, compulsive, tourette's syndrome
> writing of hers.
>
So we can pretty much assume that no-one here appreciates Dear Shazz enough
to wish that she would, ahem, send in further posts?
I am shocked at all the behaviour of these ECKists!
Why after all these accusations of being brainwashed you are all sounding
frightfully senisible AND what is WORSE (Like the R.McE touch?) you DARE to
have a sense of HUMOUR as well!
I really don't know what it is all coming to... My God (mon Deux) we might
even end up with something akin to COMMON SENSE!
And now THAT is a frightening thought...
If we ALL blocked Sharon... Now this is a real thought... Only she would
keep changing her Posting details... We ALL know she needs the attention.
Anyways
Love
Michael
IAMS
>
> Hey, Paul...I tried to answer your question. This isn't a
> cult-controlled newsgroup. If you want the propaganda, visit their
> official websites & moderated lists.
> Cults are like that. When members wake up and defect, and then speak
> out publicly with what the cult doesn't want you to know, well...they
> get upset. I was an eckist until a little over a year, you know.
>
> No, you probably don't.
>
> I am a supporter that we all have paths to follow. I have one, and
> > I'm sure that all of you have one.
>
> I like a lot of paths, but basically...I follow my own. Not actually a
> path...I prefer to get off the beaten path & sort of wander off into
> new territory & stuff...
You know who IAM.
Mahavahana
> Paul Jones wrote:
> >
> > wow, all I asked was what did Eckankar says about Jesus.
>
> didn't get a straight answer. He is mentioned here and there and some of
> his teaching are referred to once in a while. But he is not part of the
> basic teaching.
I guess these are the kind of evasive non-answers one can expect from
the ECK clergy these days.
Instead of just admitting that Eckankar's founder, Paul Twitchell,
considered Jesus to be a teacher of a far lower order than his own
made-up lineage of Eck Masters, Rich dodges the question altogether.
>
> > Maybe I thought I was in an
> > Eckankar newsroom. I did not think it would be all these acuations and
> > hostility.
>
> Yeah, the Eckankar detractors pretty much rule the roost here.
Is it any wonder that critics of Eckankar exist? Given that Clergy of
Eckankar (such as yourself) find it so difficult to be honest and open
about Eckankar's history and current teachings?
> > I have heard from everyone but them. I want to hear from the Eckists.
>
> Better to write(me or anyone) privately if you want to find out about
> Eckankar.
Yes Paul. And you can be sure you'll get accurate and honest answers
from Eckists like Rich that can't bear to discuss the relationship
between Jesus and Eckankar is the light of a public newsgroup.
ken
<arel...@home.com> wrote ...
:
Michael Wallace wrote:
: He calls these things
: > "points"... You know... The same as what you get on a Tennis Court! And
: > truth to tell, occasionally he really does have some great points.
:
: I do not use the term "points" above to indicate point scoring, Michael. I
: think you're mixed up.
:
: The way I use the term point is along the line of this dictionary
: definition:
:
: "That which arrests attention, or indicates qualities or character; a
: salient feature; a characteristic; a peculiarity; hence, a particular;
: an item; a detail; as, the good or bad points of a man, a horse, a book,
: a story, etc." (http://www.dictionary.com/)
Lurk takes this stuff so seriously.
Ken
arel...@home.com
Michael Wallace wrote:
>
> <arel...@home.com> wrote in message news:38094D43...@home.com...
> >
> >
> > Michael Wallace wrote:
> > >
> > > Rich <rsm...@aloha.net> wrote in message news:3806F2...@aloha.net...
> > > > Paul Jones wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > Yeah Paul, some of the eckists will accuse detractors of all sorts of
> > things instead of responding to the points. The hostility directed at
> > detractors can be easily discerned by the way eckists use the giggle
> > symbol "<G>" or a smilely face :) . These are the universal symbols
> > eckists use to say hostile things and pass them off as humor. This
> preserves
> > their notion that no hostility is coming from them. Seeing themselves as
> > not being angry is important, they're afraid the Varagi masters are
> > watching and taking notes.
> >
> > Stick around, your ideals about High Initiates will be shattered. <g>
>
> But ALL your questions about the A.S.S. Paranoia stakes will be answered <G>
>
> Opps... That was supposed to be an AGGRESSIVE <G> instead of one that
> represented a smile...
>
> Of course... we MIGHT be smiling as we stick the knife in... Turn and twist,
> and smile gleefully as we do so... Hmmm... Sadistic ECKists... Is it
> "really" an oxymoron??
>
> Unfortunately, Lurk still lives with the presumption that people here
> suspect he has something of worth to talk about...
Worth enough to draw ad hominen responses.
He calls these things
> "points"... You know... The same as what you get on a Tennis Court! And
> truth to tell, occasionally he really does have some great points.
I do not use the term "points" above to indicate point scoring, Michael. I
think you're mixed up.
The way I use the term point is along the line of this dictionary
definition:
"That which arrests attention, or indicates qualities or character; a
salient feature; a characteristic; a peculiarity; hence, a particular;
an item; a detail; as, the good or bad points of a man, a horse, a book,
a story, etc." (http://www.dictionary.com/)
> However,
> he seems to forget that the majority of ECKists here are not into "points
> scoiring" in quite the same way he is...
You simply are misrepresenting the the way I use the term points above
and want to assert that eckists are not interested in this??? Whatever you
have to tell your self to get by.
Lurk
> I guess this must be frustrating,
> and in end has coloured his opinion (bias?) to the belief that we are all
> out that Grinning as we stick the knife in...
>
> Most people are fairly allowing of this form of paranoia, and we love him
> nether the less <G> (Had to put that Grin in Lurk <VBG>)
>
> Unfortunately, it is a fairly rare occasion that true perspective evolves
> out of the "stuff", but we love to wait for these rare gems of conscious
> thought to emerge from the pseudo intellectual waffle iron ... Sort of like
> the cherry that occasionally appears on top of the stack of waffles...
>
> And.. Just for you Lurk...
>
> <G> AND :) AND <g>
>
> Love
>
> Michael
Michael Wallace
TerraTrekr <terra...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991017114749...@ng-fv1.aol.com...
> The sad thing is that, while Eckists see themselves as highly attuned to
> reality, the rest of the world (or, the small percentage of the world that
has
> even HEARD of Eckankar) is laughing at them for being OUT OF TOUCH with
> reality. A casual review of David Lane's research reveals the fraudulent
> origins of this movement and dictates that any reasonable person should
run -
> not walk - away from Eckankar. And, a cursory review of Eckist teachings
> should have the same affect.
Many people who read Dr Lane's work with a clear head usually come away with
the impression that he did not interpret his "facts" very well. In the not
too distant future there will be a clear and concise review of his work
posted, so when this arrives I will send in the URL.
I have read a little, and I hope the writer continues and finishes the work,
because it is excellent and clearly explains the view from the ECKists
perspective.
"Making" really was not a very well written work, you know.
Love
Michael
Michael Wallace
>
> : The way I use the term point is along the line of this dictionary
> : definition:
> :
> : "That which arrests attention, or indicates qualities or character; a
> : salient feature; a characteristic; a peculiarity; hence, a particular;
> : an item; a detail; as, the good or bad points of a man, a horse, a book,
> : a story, etc." (http://www.dictionary.com/)
>
>
> Lurk takes this stuff so seriously.
Well... Someone has to Sri Ken.
Who would keep the ball bouncing backwards and forwards if not for diehards
like good old Lurk?
It is like the old grafitti on the toilet wall... It says "For intructions
on how to watch Wimbelton, see other side" ... So you look to the other side
and it says "For intructions on how to watch Wimbelton, see other side"
<G>
Love
Michael