More firsthand information
GaryFike
First there was this:
Start Quote.
Do what you want with my posts...I've much more to tell...like helping fake the
newspaper clippings of Paul's miracles....I worked in the print shop where he
staged all the phoney headlines....what a guy!!!!!
I've considered my own book, then Lane's came out. I discovered all this
BEFORE I ever heard of David Lane. The Julian Johnson stuff was all well
known, even Johnson's books were sold at the book table at early seminars. No
explanation why the same words were from two sources but it was widly noted
even back then.
I have nothing new to add to what Lane has documented, just different sources.
I must say, the Steiger tapes are awesome, hearing Paul in his own voice
creating the lie that he sold as his life in training to be a savior. I
remember going home and crying for hours it hurt so.
At this point, Paul is such distant history for Eckists he probably isn't
much of an issue anymore. Eckankar has come clean about SOME of his life, at
least givng more facts.
Some other intersting tid bits, Paul was agent for baseball player Dizzy Dean
but was fired for missmanagement of funds...which ended up in his possession,
he was also a promoter for Jimmy Durante and was engaged to actress Ruth
Hussy...till his wife found out. He was a swimming coach at Ohio State
University for a year. Camille told me once they went to the fair and Paul
paid the announcer 10 cents to page him every 15 mintues so people would hear
his name and know he was there. He knew how to promote.
There's much more, I've not gone all over this in 25 years now. Charlie will
know me, I introduced him to some of the Twitchell's just before we had the
trial between Eckankar and Helen Fry's estate. We were both advised to get out
of state before the trial. Then when Charlie was offered the cash to lie in
court, I was with him recording the conversation...which the tape was played in
court...and of course, Eckankar lost.
Anyway, it's been YEARS...but one funny note...and a bit of revenge. The day
Darwin was fired I was called by a friend in the office that he was gone and I
could get back in Eck...(Darwin kicked me out for owning the Twitchell info and
not giving it to him). I spoke with a few Eckists in the office then with
Harold and was back in, initiations restored. I then called BB in Portland,
figuring that's where Darwin was...and spoke with him....the conversation was
short...and sweet...and on tape....
"Hey Darwin, for the past few years you were in and I was out, now I'm in and
YOU'RE out...how does it feel......silence.....DEATH TO YOU ALL, DEATH TO YOU
ALL, DEATH TO YOU ALL." and he hung up............Revenge is sweet. LOL
Actually, I'm greatful for what I've learned in Eckankar. Its just so
amazing that you can put most anything down in writing with a bit of truth here
and there and some wisdom and some things that make sense and thousands will
flock without question. No mater what the path, there are those that will
always do that. Maybe there is some great karmic lesson in it all and maybe
there is reincarnation and purification of soul....then again, maybe not.
I've long since gotten over walking around with my fists clinched tightly with
anger over all of this. They lied, I believed and I suffered. It happens.
Some win some lose. It happens.
I also had some good times in Eckankar, was exposed to some spiritual wisdom
that follows me to this day that I may not have encountered in any other way. I
fondly remember Paul and his kindness to me in times when my life was troubled.
Even though the lies, I can't be angry at the man.
I just watched The Music Man on tv tonight. That's kind of the Paul
Twitchell story...
By the way, the books that are so much in question were not written by Paul,
Spiritual Notebook, Key to Secret Worlds, Flute of God and both Shariyats were
all written by Brad Steiger. I know for a fact that he got $12,000. each for
the Shariyats. I don't know the pay he got for the other books or if there
were royalties paid to Brad.
I definatly know for a fact about A.F (Anya Foos) as I was one of the last
people to see Paul alive and the third to see him dead (as A. F and P. Y.
'cleaned' up the room to get A.F.'s belingings out before the paramedics were
called...and to dress Paul.
I was with V.W. when she finally got hold of Gail as to what to do. She was
floored when she found out that Gail was 'in the mountains' with Darwin Gross.
How funny, Paul and Annya and Gail and Darwin. At least Paul died doing what
he loved most!!
V. W. went to the morgue to identify the body per Gail's directions. The only
thing Gail wanted was a gold stick pin he wore (when dressed with his
chelas!!!). That was mailed to Gail that week.
I must say, all that went on that night has played in my mind all these
years. I was so disappointed yet still so drawn to Paul.
Big trouble went on in the Eckankar office esp after Darwin was chosen as his
successor. Chet Tuttle was later fired by Gail from Eckankar when he
confronted her with Paul's will and other documents stating he had picked Louis
Blooth to be the next Eck master. This caused a big riff in the Eck community
and many dropped out of the path. Later, Gail and Darwin married,
that kind of finished it off for all the rest of the 'old timers' that were
involved with anyting to do with the office.
I had no idea Gail and Darwin were an item before the night Paul died. But,
Paul and A. F. were kind of known by the inner circle, he was not that
secretive in his affection toward her.
End Quotes.
Then Doug wrote this:
Gary, yeah I've heard from this guy's posts before. He says some things that
are real with some things I know aren't real, so he ends up being a mixed
bag.
By the way, I checked with Brad Steiger to see if his tapes were still
around, and he said, no, he threw them out "many, many years ago." So, we'll
never know about what they contained.
The idea that Brad Steiger wrote Paul's books is one of the most far fetched
I've heard in a long time. Since I've seen Paul's library, I know for a fact
that Paul had written the first 3 or 4 chapters to Shariyat Book 3, which of
course came to an end when he died. We also know for a fact that Paul
published The Flute of God in Orion Magazine, starting late 1965. It is
filled with so many personal comments from Paul's life, that I can't even
imagine how anyone could imagine that Brad Steiger could have written it,
especially since this was long before Brad had met Paul.
You can read Brad's writing and none of those books resemble his writing
style, while it is easy to see the similarity with Paul's writings.
I have a quote from this same guy you are quoting from who said that Paul
had met Gail while he was still married to Camille, his first wife, and had
to go back and get a divorce before he could marry Gail. This wasn't true
either, since he divorced Camille in 1960, years before he moved out to
Seattle, where he met Gail.
I spoke with Patti Simpson recently. She wanted to add her experience of
what happened when Darwin was picked as the next Master. She said that Gail
hardly even knew of Darwin or much about it, and for months after he was the
Master still felt extremely shy around him. It was Helen Frye who suggested
that the two of them get to know each other, and invited them both out to
Sedona, and then later encouraged them to get married. I know of some
ECKists who lived in Portland at the time who talked with Darwin the night
Paul died. They said he was in Portland at the time, and this was long
before this guy's rumor about Darwin being with Gail, so they had no reason
not to be telling the truth.
By the way, Chet Tuttle was not fired by Gail. Chet and a few of his
followers, including Karen Lebans, left after Darwin had been the Master for
quite a few months. Chet quit on his own. If he had a copy of a will by
Paul, then why didn't he show others? Why is this the first we hear of this
rumor? John Nero took over the ECK Office after Chet left. This was all
fresh news when I started working at the office. Chet was expecting to be
Paul's successor, as was Bluth. Bluth was the one who Paul was talking about
when he said the one who had been in training didn't work out and he was
going to have to look to the youth in ECK for the next Master. That was at
the first youth conference he said that. It's on tape. And this is when he
first began spending time with Darwin, giving him more responsibilities.
If you're looking for all new myths to believe, then this guy's got the
ticket. I suppose it's easy enough to start rumors amongst people who don't
have any direct experience with these things, which is why they really
aren't that important.
I do think this guy did talk with Camille, since he has said some things
that confirmed information that wasn't generally available, and he probably
spoke to Steiger as well. But why make up so much stuff that just doesn't
fit?
I have no idea. My guess is that he's having some fun.
Doug.
And now there's this:
3/30/03
I didn't read all of what this guy said as I've been through all this over 20
years ago. Those that choose to believe will come up with anything to hold
onto any shred of evidence they can muster up to prove that they haven't been
duped. From what I did read the guy is way wrong.
My quotes are from those I talked to, Camille, Steiger, Frye and other of
Twitchell's family members. I was with Twitchell minutes before he died and
minutes after he died. I know for sure Gail was with Darwin that night as
that's where she was found to find out what to do with the body. Steiger had
documentation and payment letters stating he got paid to write the Shariyat, I
saw them at his house when he lived in Scottsdale in the late 70's.
I've never heard of the Marmon guy nor his book. I've not been keeping up on
the Twitch vs the World debate for over 20 years now. I came to terms with it
all and am suprised there are those that still back the tales up. I'm also
suprised Harold hasn't come more clean than he has about Twitch but what can he
do without dismanteling the whole of Eckankar?
These people need this crutch called Eckankar. Let them have it. If it truely
has nothing to offer they'll either walk away from it one day or exchange it
for another crutch.
At least the Lane stuff is out there and there is documentation that the path
was based on lies. Still, it's mixed with truth that can be useful. Paul was
a story teller. I really don't think he had any thought of hurting anyone,
though he did.
cher
Parker? <lol-shrug>
DAVI...@aol.com if anyone is interested in keeping him on their watch
list for their groups. Weird kind of neediness in those stories he so
desperately wants others to buy into. You'd think anticultists always
talking talking talking about critical thinking would be beyond this
sort of thing. <sigh> Life brings proof when one finds stillness.
Exposed!
Jan4litsnd
"The night before he was due to leave, the fifteenth, the phone rang at about
eight o'clock. It was Paulji. He said he'd just called up to say good-bye; he
was leaving in the morning. This struck me as terribly odd. He had never,
never, in all the time I'd known him, called my house at night. He sounded
tired and was grumbling that he didn't really want to go. I said, 'Paulji,'
and then whatever it was that I was going to say was wiped so totally from my
mind that I was completely blank."
"'Yes, Patti?' he prompted. I started laughing."
"'You know, Paulji, it's the weirdest thing. I was going to say something to
you, but it was suddenly erased from my mind. I am a complete blank.'"
"He laughed. And I laughed. But I was frowning and wondering what had
happened. Paulji mentioned feeling very tired, so I kidded him a little."
"'Why don't you just put on your pajamas? Don't forget to safety pin the shirt,
pull up a blanket, and tell the stewardess not to bother you until you're in
Cincinnati.'"
"He chuckled, saying that was not a bad idea. Then we said good-bye."
"The next night, at one-thirty a.m., California time, I got the call that said
Paulji had translated in Cincinnati. The people could not get Gail on the
phone and asked me to keep trying to reach her to let her know. I stayed up
the rest of the night trying to contact her, not knowing that she was out of
town. At four-thirty in the morning, I scribbled a letter to myself and to all
the powers that be."
<snip letter>
"By early morning, I was exhausted from my efforts to call Gail. Finally I
telephoned the local police department in Del Mar and explained the problem. I
asked them to put a note on her front door which merely requested her to call
me when she got home."
"Gail did call and before I even had a chance to say anything she said, 'It's
Paul, isn't it? He's gone.' I said, 'Yes.' Gail told me that she had known it
was going to happen. She'd been camping in the mountains with friends. In the
night, lying there in her sleeping bag under the stars, she had known."
Page 304:
"In the fourteen years since his translation, Paulji has come around now and
then--not often, but always when I really needed his counsel. But in the early
days, right after he left, he was around frequently. Gail and I had many
experiences with him and many messages. One of the neatest involved his safety
pin."
"Ever since he was a child with so many problems with chest congestion, he'd
had to have his pajama tops closed up to his throat. To his annoyance, none of
them would button high enough for him, so he always safety-pinned them at the
neck. He once told me that his stepmother had lost his safety pin, and he had
been unable to sleep the entire night. As a gift, Gail had once bought him a
solid gold safety pin. He never left on a trip without it. Yet, when his
personal effects were sent back from Cincinnati, the gold pin was not among
them. Gail was mightily upset about this and wondered if someone, not
realizing its importance, and that it was real gold, had thrown it out. Then
one day, weeks later, she opened a drawer in the office, and there was Paulji's
gold safety pin. She had opened that drawer many times since his translation;
the safety pin had not been there."
Eckankar website: http://www.eckankar.org
GaryFike
>was going to happen. She'd been camping in the mountains with friends. In
>the
>night, lying there in her sleeping bag under the stars, she had known."
>
Yeah, sounds like something Patti would write. Did you know she & I once gave
an interview to a S.D. newspaper as reps of Eckankar? Patti had a certain...how
shall I put this...frenetic enthusiasm that tended toward "special"
interpetation of any event surrounding Eckankar. Plus it was obvious to this
observer she had deep emotional feelings for Paul. It seems her husband noted
it too. :(
She also gave me my 5th initiation in 1972. It was an event decidely lacking in
'fireworks', even tho we pretended it wasn't. Don't get me wrong. I liked
Patti. She was not, however, a favorite among the old guard in Eckankar,
especially Chet Tuttle and Louis Bluth. Her tendency toward hyperbole and
over-enthusiasm was certainly part of it.
Jan, perhaps the most relevant portion of your post to this thread is:
" She'd been camping in the mountains with friends."
Uh huh. Certain unnamed friends.
Jan, how does it make you feel when you think about Gail being with Darwin the
night Paul died?
Brian Fletcher
"GaryFike" <gary...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030402010339...@mb-fo.aol.com...
Snip
. I really don't think he had any thought of hurting anyone,
> though he did.
A good example of "so near yet so far".
"The tree had no intention of hurting anyone, but I walked into it"
One of the central tenets of "soul realisation" is to transend the victim
consciousness and to recognise the perfection opf the law of synchronicity.
One may be destined to be a world heavyweight champion, but not without
receiving "muchas punchas" on the way, whether they are delivered by
bonified teachers or not .
It is the response-ability that is the mark of soul.
Brian
Brian
Brian Fletcher
>
> Jan, how does it make you feel when you think about Gail being with Darwin
the
> night Paul died?
Everybody is with somebody always....even if they are physically
apart....and no mistakes.
Brian
Michael
Gary... How does it make you feel when you keep repeating rumour as fact?
A little sad, don't you think??
Your comments regarding Patti Simpson are interesting... given that the "old
guard" you speak of are in one sense certainly old, but not guarding.
Sort of sounds like Spirit of itself knew better regarding the 5th, hey??
Love
Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
GaryFike
weren't all that different from the cast of characters at a.r.e., except, of
course, they knew they were acting.
OK, at the count of three let's have some nyuk-nyuk's and a couple of
whoop-whoop's!
ta-ta for now!
GaryFike
Aussie's who've come to aid in a good cause (unlike those ingrates, the
Canadians).
Sam
GaryFike wrote in message <20030403003438...@mb-cu.aol.com>...
>I'll leave you and your "initiation" status alone out of respect for the
>Aussie's who've come to aid in a good cause (unlike those ingrates, the
>Canadians).
get into the panties of your American fiend, Cher.
Hee Hee! Hahahahahahahahahaha!
LUV
Sam
P.S: Please help me God. I'm dying from laughing so hard here!
GaryFike
I'll leave you to dwell on the accuracy of your description of Cher <G>
I may eventually forgive the Canadians for acting more like Euros than North
Americans. Well, at least my two Canadian grand daughters...
Jan4litsnd
>From: gary...@aol.com (GaryFike)
>Date: 4/2/03 7:11 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <20030402191125...@mb-fj.aol.com>
Jan:
I find it sad, very sad--for those who are in that place that they have nothing
more of value in their lives apparently than to foster untrue gossip.
Last night we were watching someone on CNN who used to be the Ambassador to
Morocco, and who speaks and reads Arabic so reads their newspapers and watches
their TV broadcasts talking about the difference in what they are getting in
their news. He spoke about some (untrue) stories they printed--that US troops
frustrated that they were having so much resistance from Iraqi soldiers were
killing Iraqi babies to take out their aggressions; that the missing
journalists had been taken by US military police and were starved and tortured;
and a week ago when I also saw him on TV, he said a headline in an Arabic
newspaper said that the US dropped an atomic bomb on Iraq; and that the US
bombs were targeting Iraqi civilians. That is the type of news they are
getting. Isn't that sad, as it's not true. Yet once reported by a newspaper
over there, then another one, and then they also hear it from their clerics,
the people believe it forever. There may be nothing that will change their mind
about that even after this war is over. It is imprinted and they believe. What
is the answer to this? It is that person's experience who believes lies, and
the experience of anyone else who is affected because of some necessity of
experience for them. But it certainly doesn't make it true. There are people
who won't be affected by that as well, as it's not a part of their
consciousness.
Perhaps the next time I am with Paul on the inner planes, I might try to
remember and ask him about made up stories about he and Gail.
Michael
> I'll leave you and your "initiation" status alone out of respect for the
> Aussie's who've come to aid in a good cause (unlike those ingrates, the
> Canadians).
>
>
Thank you so much, Sri Gary... I really appreciate the fact that you will
leave... Turning over a new leave?
What's the bet that when the war is over, and chemical weapons et al are dug
up, then the UN, the Franch and assorted undignified dignitaries will say
what a terrible mess it all was, and go about as if nothing ever happened.
Love
Michael
>
>
>
>
Sam
Michael wrote in message ...
>
>"GaryFike" <gary...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20030403003438...@mb-cu.aol.com...
>> I'll leave you and your "initiation" status alone out of respect for the
>> Aussie's who've come to aid in a good cause (unlike those ingrates, the
>> Canadians).
>>
>>
>
>Thank you so much, Sri Gary... I really appreciate the fact that you will
>leave... Turning over a new leave?
Pulling a Samo, is he?
It does seem to me that Samorez has softened up a bit.
If anything this NG does is helping people soften and lighten up a bit,
that's a good thing.
Okay! Don't say nothin' to insult my superior insights, or I'll have to
change my mind again. Heh heh!
LOVE
Sam
Doug Marman
claims made about him in the posts that Gary has been passing on from
someone else here lately. Anyone can write to Brad to get his response just
as I have.
Following is the exact e-mail message I sent to Brad, followed by his reply:
----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Marman
To: Brad Steiger
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 7:54 PM
Subject: About a rumor
Dear Brad,
I hope this letter is not a bother to you. It hardly seems worth spending
time chasing after rumors, but on the other hand sometimes the best way of
handling them is finding out if there is any truth at all to them.
A person, who has not posted his name but goes by DavidP111, wrote the
following. This information was posted on a public newsgroup,
alt.religion.eckankar:
> I must say, the Steiger tapes are awesome, hearing Paul in his own voice
> creating the lie that he sold as his life in training to be a savior. I
> remember going home and crying for hours it hurt so...
>
> By the way, the books that are so much in question were not written by
Paul,
> Spiritual Notebook, Key to Secret Worlds, Flute of God and both
Shariyats were
> all written by Brad Steiger. I know for a fact that he got $12,000.
each for
> the Shariyats. I don't know the pay he got for the other books or if
there
> were royalties paid to Brad.
Brad, DavidP111 had previously written that he had met with you and heard
your tape recorded interview with Paul Twitchell, and in those tapes it was
clear to DavidP111 that Paul and you both decided on a story to tell about
Paul's youth to be used in your book. That's what he was referring to in his
first paragraph above.
I wrote in response to the post above that I found this idea that you are
the author of those books hard to believe, especially since your writing
style is so different from Paul's. I also pointed out that The Flute of God
was first published in Orion Magazine, starting late 1965, which was before
you even met Paul, from what I know.
However, DavidP111 wrote back in a response that was also posted on
alt.religion.eckankar:
> Steiger had documentation and payment letters stating he got paid to
write
> the Shariyat, I saw them at his house when he lived in Scottsdale in the
late 70's.
If you care to respond to these claims, I would be willing to post your
comments. I don't care either way what the truth of the matter might be, but
simply am trying to stop a rumor by replacing it with some real facts.
Of course, if you don't want to bother with rumors such as this, I
understand perfectly.
Thanks.
Doug Marman.
Brad's replay was short:
"Pure fantasy in all regards."
"GaryFike" <gary...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030402010339...@mb-fo.aol.com...
Torchbearer
> I'll leave you and your "initiation" status alone out of respect for the
> Aussie's who've come to aid in a good cause (unlike those ingrates, the
> Canadians).
Canadians are there with the British and in the Gulf and in Afganistan.
Check your facts.................
You know as much about this as you do about Eckankar; not much.
GaryFike
>"Pure fantasy in all regards."
"I never had sex with that woman."
;)
Siva Ri
> For any who care, I wrote to Brad Steiger to see if he could validate the
> claims made about him in the posts that Gary has been passing on from
> someone else here lately. Anyone can write to Brad to get his response just
> as I have.
>
well. If Steiger did what he was accused of, he'd have good reasons
NOT to admit to it, and probably no reason TO admit to it. Some good
reasons he would NOT want to admit it:
..Shows him and Twitchell conspired in a big lie.
..Reduces his credibility.
..Shows him up as a cheap character by being willing to make money by
deceiving sincere religious followers.
..Casts a very bad light on Twitchell, whom apparently Steiger
considered a friend.
..Potentially raises lawsuits or other troubles with Eckankar.
What is more, if Steiger DID do what he is accused of, he has kept
this a tight secret for all these years, and wouldn't give it up
merely because a curious Eckist asked him about it.
On the other hand, if Steiger did NOT do what he his accused of, he
would also naturally deny it as pure fantasy. BOTTOM LINE: Steiger's
denial of the act can be equally interpreted as a truth or a lie, and
therefore tells us nothing whatever.
Doug Marman
"Siva Ri" <siv...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:a0a906c9.0304...@posting.google.com...
> "Doug Marman" <d.ma...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:<i%Oja.103203$Zo.21389@sccrnsc03>...
> > For any who care, I wrote to Brad Steiger to see if he could validate
the
> > claims made about him in the posts that Gary has been passing on from
> > someone else here lately. Anyone can write to Brad to get his response
just
> > as I have.
> SIVA RI WROTE:
> If Gary's source has credibility problems, going to Steiger does as
> well. If Steiger did what he was accused of, he'd have good reasons
> NOT to admit to it, and probably no reason TO admit to it. Some good
> reasons he would NOT want to admit it:
>
> ..Shows him and Twitchell conspired in a big lie.
> ..Reduces his credibility.
> ..Shows him up as a cheap character by being willing to make money by
> deceiving sincere religious followers.
> ..Casts a very bad light on Twitchell, whom apparently Steiger
> considered a friend.
> ..Potentially raises lawsuits or other troubles with Eckankar.
>
> What is more, if Steiger DID do what he is accused of, he has kept
> this a tight secret for all these years, and wouldn't give it up
> merely because a curious Eckist asked him about it.
>
> On the other hand, if Steiger did NOT do what he his accused of, he
> would also naturally deny it as pure fantasy. BOTTOM LINE: Steiger's
> denial of the act can be equally interpreted as a truth or a lie, and
> therefore tells us nothing whatever.
DOUG RESPONDS:
Your logic makes sense, but I think you are missing something, Siva.
Remember, according to the claims of DavidP111, Steiger welcomed David into
his home and openly shared with him the tapes, and particularly played for
him the 2.5 hours of tapes out of the more than 25 hours (if I have David's
story right) that showed Paul making up his past, and then Brad told him
about writing Paul's books and even showed him the receipts that proved he
had been paid for writing the books. If these things would today be a
problem for Steiger, why weren't they a problem for Steiger then?
Steiger had been working hard to establish his writing career before he even
met Paul, and certainly had a reputation that was even more important in
those days for him to be seen as independent of the people he wrote about.
He mentions this in many of his early books from that time period. Today he
doesn't mention it, since it is less of an issue for him today. Back then,
it was important for him to be taken as an independent researcher, not tied
to any teaching, especially a religious teaching. Today, Brad has a
significant readership who continue to buy his books, so there is much less
of a risk for him today, and in fact there might be something to gain from
revealing that he is the author of Paul's books - if this were true. Back
then, however, it would have ruined his reputation for being honest and
independent.
So, if he did write Paul's books, as DavidP111 claims, then why would he
have shared it back then, if he is denying it today?Whatever problem it is
supposed to cause for Steiger today, which could explain why he is now
denying it, why wasn't it an even bigger problem for him then? So, someone
needs to at least suggest a reason why Steiger would have shared the
information back then, but would now deny it.
Other than that, your logic makes sense. Steiger's denial doesn't prove
anything, and neither do DavidP111's claims. I still don't see how Steiger
could have written The Flute of God, since he would have had to have met
Paul back before Paul even began teaching ECKANKAR, since The Flute of God
was first published by Orion Magazine starting in 1965.
So, while these might prove nothing - what do you think? Do you really think
that Steiger wrote those books?
Doug.
Doug Marman
NOW you tell us?
<G>
cher
Actually, he never had sex with any woman! But don't tell. <smile>
cher
and you guys fall for it like it was candy! The one true aspect that's
never mentioned in the "mind control" theories.... the person wants to
BELIEVE what he's being told. At least that's what any salesmen can tell
you. Man.... one born every minute. <tsk>
Michael
"cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3E90F161...@worldnet.att.net...
I heard a rumour that his friend went out with Maran, however!
The sight of his particular shortcomings never even phased her,
apparently...
(Ducking now)
Seriously... the joy of rumour written as fact is a curious reality in the
literary tradition for thousands of years. David Lane was just keeping up
the old traditions!
Love
Michael
Michael
then Steiger does not invite him in to show him the "goods" then deny it.
What was that about a willingness to suspend disbelief being a problem in
Eckankar?
The Simpsons have more substance than this nonsense, however much they had
stolen conceptually from the Flintstones...
Love
Michael
"cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3E90F591...@worldnet.att.net...
Michael
"Sam" <S...@churchofa.r.e.net> wrote in message
news:fV4ja.1747$ZH.1...@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
>
> Michael wrote in message ...
> >
> >"GaryFike" <gary...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >news:20030403003438...@mb-cu.aol.com...
> >> I'll leave you and your "initiation" status alone out of respect for
the
> >> Aussie's who've come to aid in a good cause (unlike those ingrates, the
> >> Canadians).
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Thank you so much, Sri Gary... I really appreciate the fact that you will
> >leave... Turning over a new leave?
>
> Pulling a Samo, is he?
> It does seem to me that Samorez has softened up a bit.
>
> If anything this NG does is helping people soften and lighten up a bit,
> that's a good thing.
>
> Okay! Don't say nothin' to insult my superior insights, or I'll have to
> change my mind again. Heh heh!
>
> LOVE
> Sam
>
Sam... No one here is ever going to insult your superiour insights... We all
just let your posts do that for you <G>
love
Michael
cher
>
> "cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:3E90F161...@worldnet.att.net...
> > Doug Marman wrote:
> > >
> > > "GaryFike" <gary...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > > news:20030406184730...@mb-fq.aol.com...
> > > > >Brad's replay was short:
> > > > >"Pure fantasy in all regards."
> > > >
> > > > "I never had sex with that woman."
> > > >
> > > > ;)
> > >
> > > NOW you tell us?
> > >
> > > <G>
> >
> > Actually, he never had sex with any woman! But don't tell. <smile>
>
> I heard a rumour that his friend went out with Maran, however!
Oh, the one with the blue dress? :->
> The sight of his particular shortcomings never even phased her,
> apparently...
Yeah.... but the cigar makes up for shortcomings.
> (Ducking now)
>
> Seriously... the joy of rumour written as fact is a curious reality in the
> literary tradition for thousands of years. David Lane was just keeping up
> the old traditions!
Now you know why they pay so much for photographs at the tabloids.
Sooner or later you need to prove to the audience that Bigfoot really
was in Vegas shooting craps!
> Love
>
> Michael
cher
you, when the old timers come front and center this guys stories melt in
the sun. That always happens with snow jobs.
I like how everyone is a liar but David. Everyone! <tsk> Like the buzzer
doesn't sound that malady.
cher
the beat goes on.... the beat goes on. <wink>
cher
Sam
newsgroup.
Cheers
Sam
>
Sam
babysitting some of you goons.
Cheers
Sam
Sam
babysitting some of you goons.
Cheers
Sam
Michael wrote in message ...
Sam
babysitting some of you goons.
Cheers
Sam
Michael wrote in message ...
Sam
babysitting some of you goons.
Cheers
Sam
cher wrote in message <3E91A5C8...@worldnet.att.net>...
Sam
babysitting some of you goons.
Cheers
Sam
Michael wrote in message ...
Sam
babysitting some of you goons.
Cheers
Sam
Michael wrote in message ...
Sam
babysitting some of you goons.
Cheers
Sam
Michael wrote in message ...
cher
insanity is doing
the same thing over and over and expecting different results." Benjamin
Franklin
Bee
Michael
Whhaaaahhhhhhh.... Whhaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh .... whhhhaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Bottle... want bottle....
gimme candy... want candy...
Oh oh oh... want want want want want
<G>
Love
Mickey Mouse
"Sam" <S...@churchofa.r.e.net> wrote in message
news:0nmka.690$mm4....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
Michael
I have a script I would like you to look at!! <G>
Love
Michael
"Bee" <rub...@phurphy.com> wrote in message
news:36oka.9293$1s1.1...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
cher
cher
a tale of a fateful trip
sorry... it's snowing again. <sigh> The cabin is no longer my friend.
:->
cher
<lol>
Sam
Michael wrote in message ...
>
>
>Bottle... want bottle....
>
>gimme candy... want candy...
>
>Oh oh oh... want want want want want
>
>
><G>
>
>Love
>
>Mickey Mouse
>
play the role of acting dumb and dumber in pixel lala land.
BTW: What superior insights do Eckists have that detractors don't have? None
that I can see based on the posts here.
But I, oh my goodness, do I ever have superior insights!
But I'm not sharing my candies no mo'.
Give me one good thing I could possibly say that I haven't said before that
could help anybody here be more loving and tolerant.
I'll bet you can't.
Love
Sam
Sam
But I, oh my goodness, do I ever have superior insights!
I'm half-joking, of course. My point? I reckon I can be as good or bad as
anybody. It doesn't matter what titles or labels we choose for ourselves.
As Brother Larry used to say: "I'm either the shortest giant or the tallest
midget."
Metaphorically speaking, of course.
Cheers
Sam
Siva Ri
> "Siva Ri" <siv...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:a0a906c9.0304...@posting.google.com...
> > "Doug Marman" <d.ma...@attbi.com> wrote in message
> news:<i%Oja.103203$Zo.21389@sccrnsc03>...
> > > For any who care, I wrote to Brad Steiger to see if he could validate
> the
> > > claims made about him in the posts that Gary has been passing on from
> > > someone else here lately. Anyone can write to Brad to get his response
> just
> > > as I have.
>
> > If Gary's source has credibility problems, going to Steiger does as
> > well. If Steiger did what he was accused of, he'd have good reasons
> > NOT to admit to it, and probably no reason TO admit to it. Some good
> > reasons he would NOT want to admit it:
> >
> > ..Shows him and Twitchell conspired in a big lie.
> > ..Reduces his credibility.
> > ..Shows him up as a cheap character by being willing to make money by
> > deceiving sincere religious followers.
> > ..Casts a very bad light on Twitchell, whom apparently Steiger
> > considered a friend.
> > ..Potentially raises lawsuits or other troubles with Eckankar.
> >
> > What is more, if Steiger DID do what he is accused of, he has kept
> > this a tight secret for all these years, and wouldn't give it up
> > merely because a curious Eckist asked him about it.
> >
> > On the other hand, if Steiger did NOT do what he his accused of, he
> > would also naturally deny it as pure fantasy. BOTTOM LINE: Steiger's
> > denial of the act can be equally interpreted as a truth or a lie, and
> > therefore tells us nothing whatever.
>
> Your logic makes sense, but I think you are missing something, Siva.
> Remember, according to the claims of DavidP111, Steiger welcomed David into
> his home and openly shared with him the tapes, and particularly played for
> him the 2.5 hours of tapes out of the more than 25 hours (if I have David's
> story right) that showed Paul making up his past, and then Brad told him
> about writing Paul's books and even showed him the receipts that proved he
> had been paid for writing the books. If these things would today be a
> problem for Steiger, why weren't they a problem for Steiger then?
>
Your point is valid, unless this hypothetical confession of Steiger
was an off-the-record sharing with a person Steiger had come to trust,
and which if it went public, could always be denied, since no smoking
gun materials were give by Steiger to Gary's source. But hey, this is
all unsubstantiated, and probably always will be.
>
> Steiger had been working hard to establish his writing career before he even
> met Paul, and certainly had a reputation that was even more important in
> those days for him to be seen as independent of the people he wrote about.
> He mentions this in many of his early books from that time period. Today he
> doesn't mention it, since it is less of an issue for him today. Back then,
> it was important for him to be taken as an independent researcher, not tied
> to any teaching, especially a religious teaching. Today, Brad has a
> significant readership who continue to buy his books, so there is much less
> of a risk for him today, and in fact there might be something to gain from
> revealing that he is the author of Paul's books - if this were true. Back
> then, however, it would have ruined his reputation for being honest and
> independent.
>
> So, if he did write Paul's books, as DavidP111 claims, then why would he
> have shared it back then, if he is denying it today?Whatever problem it is
> supposed to cause for Steiger today, which could explain why he is now
> denying it, why wasn't it an even bigger problem for him then? So, someone
> needs to at least suggest a reason why Steiger would have shared the
> information back then, but would now deny it.
>
> Other than that, your logic makes sense. Steiger's denial doesn't prove
> anything, and neither do DavidP111's claims. I still don't see how Steiger
> could have written The Flute of God, since he would have had to have met
> Paul back before Paul even began teaching ECKANKAR, since The Flute of God
> was first published by Orion Magazine starting in 1965.
>
> So, while these might prove nothing - what do you think? Do you really think
> that Steiger wrote those books?
>
> Doug.
Siva Ri
credibility problem. Doug points out some obvious problems with that
sources claims. You are too quick to the trigger here sweetie.
>
cher <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:<3E90F591...@worldnet.att.net>...
> You guys are actually buying into this guy david parker? Man... any lie,
> and you guys fall for it like it was candy! The one true aspect that's
> never mentioned in the "mind control" theories.... the person wants to
> BELIEVE what he's being told. At least that's what any salesmen can tell
> you. Man.... one born every minute. <tsk>
>
> Siva Ri wrote:
> >
> > > For any who care, I wrote to Brad Steiger to see if he could validate the
> > > claims made about him in the posts that Gary has been passing on from
> > > someone else here lately. Anyone can write to Brad to get his response just
> > > as I have.
> > >
> > well. If Steiger did what he was accused of, he'd have good reasons
> > NOT to admit to it, and probably no reason TO admit to it. Some good
> > reasons he would NOT want to admit it:
> >
> > ..Shows him and Twitchell conspired in a big lie.
> > ..Reduces his credibility.
> > ..Shows him up as a cheap character by being willing to make money by
> > deceiving sincere religious followers.
> > ..Casts a very bad light on Twitchell, whom apparently Steiger
> > considered a friend.
> > ..Potentially raises lawsuits or other troubles with Eckankar.
> >
> > What is more, if Steiger DID do what he is accused of, he has kept
> > this a tight secret for all these years, and wouldn't give it up
> > merely because a curious Eckist asked him about it.
> >
> > On the other hand, if Steiger did NOT do what he his accused of, he
> > would also naturally deny it as pure fantasy. BOTTOM LINE: Steiger's
> > denial of the act can be equally interpreted as a truth or a lie, and
> > therefore tells us nothing whatever.
> > >
Siva Ri
> "Siva Ri" <siv...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:a0a906c9.0304...@posting.google.com...
> news:<i%Oja.103203$Zo.21389@sccrnsc03>...
> > > For any who care, I wrote to Brad Steiger to see if he could validate
> the
> > > claims made about him in the posts that Gary has been passing on from
> > > someone else here lately. Anyone can write to Brad to get his response
> just
> > > as I have.
>
> > If Gary's source has credibility problems, going to Steiger does as
> > well. If Steiger did what he was accused of, he'd have good reasons
> > NOT to admit to it, and probably no reason TO admit to it. Some good
> > reasons he would NOT want to admit it:
> >
> > ..Shows him and Twitchell conspired in a big lie.
> > ..Reduces his credibility.
> > ..Shows him up as a cheap character by being willing to make money by
> > deceiving sincere religious followers.
> > ..Casts a very bad light on Twitchell, whom apparently Steiger
> > considered a friend.
> > ..Potentially raises lawsuits or other troubles with Eckankar.
> >
> > What is more, if Steiger DID do what he is accused of, he has kept
> > this a tight secret for all these years, and wouldn't give it up
> > merely because a curious Eckist asked him about it.
> >
> > On the other hand, if Steiger did NOT do what he his accused of, he
> > would also naturally deny it as pure fantasy. BOTTOM LINE: Steiger's
> > denial of the act can be equally interpreted as a truth or a lie, and
> > therefore tells us nothing whatever.
>
> Your logic makes sense, but I think you are missing something, Siva.
> Remember, according to the claims of DavidP111, Steiger welcomed David into
> his home and openly shared with him the tapes, and particularly played for
> him the 2.5 hours of tapes out of the more than 25 hours (if I have David's
> story right) that showed Paul making up his past, and then Brad told him
> about writing Paul's books and even showed him the receipts that proved he
> had been paid for writing the books. If these things would today be a
> problem for Steiger, why weren't they a problem for Steiger then?
>
surely know from my other postings. <g> Despite repeated claims by
Rich and others that Twitchells plagiarisms were a small percentage of
his writings, I think the percentage is quite high. And I think what
wasn't plagiarized literally, was mostly rehashed from other writers.
Anyway, I think DavidP111 has written a mish mash of truth,
half-truth, and pulp fiction - pretty much like most of Paul
Twithcells books - and the result is about the same - its entertaining
but unreliable.
>
> Doug.
Bee
slsp our beat to that <g>
But come out with a "gay" one <g> l -- e Bee!
"cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3E921AF4...@worldnet.att.net...
Bee
> But I'm not sharing my candies no mo'.
>
what do you mean ...YOUR candies? Don't you share your good fortune of
life?
> Give me one good thing I could possibly say that I haven't said before
that
> could help anybody here be more loving and tolerant.
Quote : "you wanna share some of my candies?
(of course it depends on interpretations of what "candy " means) ...
Money can't buy it...
drugs can't buy ...
Sex can't buy it ...
you can't buy it ...
I believe in love alone ...
I do these things for you ... Annie L. :)
but you can share some <g>
>
> I'll bet you can't.
I'll bet I can ....smiles L - -E B
cher
mate. <wink>
Ken
"cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote ...
>
> Let's sit right down and we'll tell a tale,
> a tale of a fateful trip
>
>
> sorry... it's snowing again. <sigh> The cabin is no longer my friend.
> :->
So, how much did you get?
And what do you think *now* about the possibilities of global warming? :-)
Ken
"Siva Ri" <siv...@aol.com> wrote ...
>
> I said in the first sentence of my post that Gary's source has a
> credibility problem. Doug points out some obvious problems with that
> sources claims. You are too quick to the trigger here sweetie.
Siva, the Iraqi Minister of Information has a "credibility problem". This
David guy is apparently a writer of pulp fiction.
Cher wrote...
cher
>
> "cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote ...
> >
> > Let's sit right down and we'll tell a tale,
> > a tale of a fateful trip
> >
> >
> > sorry... it's snowing again. <sigh> The cabin is no longer my friend.
> > :->
>
> So, how much did you get?
4 inches. What a bummer. It's mostly melted, but the natives are getting
restless... outside shouting at the sky. <grin> I love it when they try
to throw the snow back where it came from. <giggle>
> And what do you think *now* about the possibilities of global warming? :-)
Liberal scientists..... go fig. :-P
cher
>
> "Siva Ri" <siv...@aol.com> wrote ...
> >
> > I said in the first sentence of my post that Gary's source has a
> > credibility problem. Doug points out some obvious problems with that
> > sources claims. You are too quick to the trigger here sweetie.
>
> Siva, the Iraqi Minister of Information has a "credibility problem". This
> David guy is apparently a writer of pulp fiction.
Well seeing as how you're a male, you might actually get an answer
instead of a lecture. <sigh>
Ken
Cher wrote...
We just got a dusting down this way, mostly gone already. But if I
wanted snow in April I'd move to Canada.
Personally, as far as global warming is concerned I'm all for it <g>.
Ken
Cher wrote...
>
> Ken wrote:
> >
> > "Siva Ri" <siv...@aol.com> wrote ...
> > >
> > > I said in the first sentence of my post that Gary's source has a
> > > credibility problem. Doug points out some obvious problems with that
> > > sources claims. You are too quick to the trigger here sweetie.
> >
> > Siva, the Iraqi Minister of Information has a "credibility problem". This
> > David guy is apparently a writer of pulp fiction.
>
> Well seeing as how you're a male, you might actually get an answer
> instead of a lecture. <sigh>
And the Evil of Sexism rises it's ugly head once again.
(Nasty, evil sexism! Go away!!! <G>).
Al Radzik
cher wrote:
> You guys are actually buying into this guy david parker? Man... any lie,
> and you guys fall for it like it was ...SSSLLAAAAPPP!
Hush little bitch. You don't respond unless asked to.
Alf
Joe
> "Siva Ri" <siv...@aol.com> wrote ...
> >
> > I said in the first sentence of my post that Gary's source has a
> > credibility problem. Doug points out some obvious problems with that
> > sources claims. You are too quick to the trigger here sweetie.
>
>
> Siva, the Iraqi Minister of Information has a "credibility problem". This
> David guy is apparently a writer of pulp fiction.
Here comes Ken to the kneejerk rescue....
The plain evidence showing us that Twitchell made up Sudar, Reb, etc,
and the mountain of evidence that Twitchell was otherwise a liar, and
a plagiarist, and a fraud, are always dismissed by Ken with the
mystical 'gosh, anything's possible.'
But...a claim that Paulji's biographer may have at least collaborated
in the writing of other eck books? He's dismissed by Ken as a liar.
Wiggle for us now, Ken.
cher
cher
>
> "Ken" <kah...@nospam.att.net> wrote in message news:<UPCka.18268$cO3.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
> > "Siva Ri" <siv...@aol.com> wrote ...
> > >
> > > I said in the first sentence of my post that Gary's source has a
> > > credibility problem. Doug points out some obvious problems with that
> > > sources claims. You are too quick to the trigger here sweetie.
> >
> >
> > Siva, the Iraqi Minister of Information has a "credibility problem". This
> > David guy is apparently a writer of pulp fiction.
>
> Here comes Ken to the kneejerk rescue....
>
> The plain evidence showing us that Twitchell made up Sudar, Reb, etc,
> and the mountain of evidence that Twitchell was otherwise a liar, and
> a plagiarist, and a fraud, are always dismissed by Ken with the
> mystical 'gosh, anything's possible.'
>
> But...a claim that Paulji's biographer may have at least collaborated
> in the writing of other eck books? He's dismissed by Ken as a liar.
>
> Wiggle for us now, Ken.
Tell you what bright bulb... take a trip to Phoenix and ask around
about this guy you are drooling over. See what you come up with. <grin>
Come on back and tell us about it!
Bee
Torchbearer
Ken wrote....
Here on the west coast of Canada we don't get snow in April......... only in
the mountains.
I have been waiting for the globe to get warm enough for us to grow palm
trees here and I find that some people have been doing it for years already.
Feel the heat, feel the heat ................. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. :-)