Open letter to HCS
MomentaryEckist
As a longtime ECKist who is in love with the truth, I appreciate the
prompt and complete posting of my queries and often long winded
treatises on Eckankar fundamentals. I equally appreciate the prompt
replies and responses, even though I do not agree with them
completely, and even though they left some direct questions
unanswered. I believe that everyone who takes the time and trouble to
write something down for all to see, is doing so out of Love. It is
simply up to us to contemplate how that can be possible when the words
do not agree with ours.
My main goal has been to assure you that there are ECKists out there
that believe in very similar ways to the ways you now do. A
difference may be that we feel like these fundamentals are, were, and
always will be part of the path. This "breed" of ECKist is not at all
like the ones you describe in the testimonials. Sadly, I will agree
that there are those that truly get it, and those that don't, and
sometimes the latter can blow it for the former. But this is a
general trend in all paths. Note how most world religions are divided
into the side for the masses and the side for the mystics. This is
simply the Dual/Non Dual in action in a Unity of One.
If I sounded defensive in any way, it was in beng labeled unethical
and ignoble if I am able to stay in Eckankar and build a bridge to
other paths, including HCS, based on a mapping between terms about
concepts of truth. Invariably, you will coin your own terminology and
develop your own traditions (as it is clear you have already). I
would like to stay focused on what we have in common . For example,
what could be considered the "holy trinity" for both paths: 1) a love
for the impersonal Holy Spirit, 2) a high state of consciousness that
we all can attain, and 3) no need for an intermediary between
ourselves and God. This takes us beyond the arbitrariness of the
sounds or letters we attach to the concept to signify the meaning when
talking or writing (e.g. "Mahanta" or "God-Soul" as words to signify
that highest state of consciousness that is our birthright).
I believe we have a lot more in common than these three things I
enumerated here. I believe that if you contemplate my posts further,
you will find that we can probably agree on every one of the
fundamentals I listed.
For example, take just the simple definition of Eckankar I listed:
1. I agree that the definition of Eckankar should read "a" not "the",
as in "Eckankar is a religion of the Sound and Light of God." I
suspect that even the Eckankar organization would readily agree with
this tweaking.
2. I believe we can agree that there should be a precise difference
between the word ECK and Eckankar. Eckankar is the religion, or the
system of belief and action. ECK is simply the Eckankar word for the
Holy Spirit, derived from a universal symbol for the Holy Spirit
("EK") designed by Paul Twitchell. I think that HCS will always want
there to be a similar separation between the term and/or any future
symbol for the Holy Spirit, and the system documented in the Great
Work that get you into contact with it.
3. I believe we can agree that within this strict definitional context
that saying "Eckankar is the true and only path back to God" is
patently false. And even Eckankar tries hard not to make this
particular claim, as many of the quotes listed on this site point out
as proof of the contradictory nature of the Eckankar writings.
Similarly, I think that HCS will not try to claim that it has a
monopoly on truth either.
4. Finally, I believe we can agree that within this strict semantic
context that saying "ECK or EK is the true and only path back to
Sugmad (the Eckankar name for God)" is actually 100% truth. HCS makes
a similar claim with respect to reaching All That Is through the Holy
Spirit. This brings the "difference" down to one camp liking "EK and
Sugmad", and the other liking the term Holy Spirit and All That Is.
However, that is like saying "English is better than German" and is a
question of culture and taste, not a question of truth and beauty.
Thus are laid the foundations of bridges.
I am sure that there are other terms where it is a simple semantic
context that may have been overlooked that makes such a big difference
in building a bridge rather than a wall.
So that leads to my final question. Do you see any value in building
bridges in this manner by trying to find that "semantic context"? If
so, I would be glad to work with you to identify them and make sure
that in all of my dealings with folks I am very precise as to the
meanings of these fundamental spiritual truths. In this way, there is
no need to accuse folks who are just trying to make their way back to
God of being unethical or ignoble. All involved are able to fully
embrace their chosen path and bring truth to all with whom they
associate in a way that is most natural to them and the situation.
Ok then, Geoff
Sign me: MomentaryEckist
@aloha.net Rich
"MomentaryEckist" <momenta...@hotmail.com> wrote
> For example, take just the simple definition of Eckankar I listed:
> 1. I agree that the definition of Eckankar should read "a" not "the",
> as in "Eckankar is a religion of the Sound and Light of God." I
> suspect that even the Eckankar organization would readily agree with
> this tweaking.
FYI officially it is "ECKANKAR Religion of the Light and Sound of God".
No "a" or "the".
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Rich~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Sailing the CyberSea~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sean
Hi Geoff,
enjoyed your posts recently. Good to see you enjoying yourself over at the
HCS.
They're a fun bunch hey? <g>
A quick comment below:
"MomentaryEckist" <momenta...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d118609c.04020...@posting.google.com...
> Dear HCS.
>
>
> For example, take just the simple definition of Eckankar I listed:
> 1. I agree that the definition of Eckankar should read "a" not "the",
> as in "Eckankar is a religion of the Sound and Light of God." I
> suspect that even the Eckankar organization would readily agree with
> this tweaking.
>
For the record, you'll find in publications the following term being used
consistently:
"We invite you to learn more about Eckankar, Religion of the Light and Sound
of God."
Also see the logo on the website: http://www.eckankar.org/
If we are in the territory of fine semantics between the words "the" or "a",
and what that may mean, I thought it would be important to know that neither
terms are actually used by Eckankar in the normal course.
<G>
> 2. I believe we can agree that there should be a precise difference
> between the word ECK and Eckankar. Eckankar is the religion, or the
> system of belief and action. ECK is simply the Eckankar word for the
> Holy Spirit, derived from a universal symbol for the Holy Spirit
> ("EK") designed by Paul Twitchell. I think that HCS will always want
> there to be a similar separation between the term and/or any future
> symbol for the Holy Spirit, and the system documented in the Great
> Work that get you into contact with it.
>
Was that THE Great Work, or A Great Work the HCS are promoting?
<wink>
Cheers Sean
Jane4410
like the fundamentalist Christian who justifies their view by the
Bible. For me some simply yes or no answers, please:
1. Does the LEM, Harold Klemp, communicate clearly, avoiding
misunderstandings, sadness, & drama?
2. Does the LEM, Harold Klemp, use the power of his words in
the direction of truth & love?
3. Does the LEM, Harold Klemp, speak with integrity?
4. Regarding the Mahanta, does Harold Klemp take personally
what others do or say regarding the position?
4. Is Dawin Gross still a member of the line of Eck Masters?
5. Did Darwin Gross steal and cheat?
6. Do you consider the line of Eck Masters to be THE Line of
Truth carriers in the physical worlds?
Thank you
Jane4410
momenta...@hotmail.com (MomentaryEckist) wrote in message news:<d118609c.04020...@posting.google.com>...
MomentaryEckist
> All of the quotes and gathering materials from the literature is just
> like the fundamentalist Christian who justifies their view by the
> Bible. For me some simply yes or no answers, please:
>
> 1. Does the LEM, Harold Klemp, communicate clearly, avoiding
> misunderstandings, sadness, & drama?
Yes.
> 2. Does the LEM, Harold Klemp, use the power of his words in
> the direction of truth & love?
Yes.
> 3. Does the LEM, Harold Klemp, speak with integrity?
Yes.
> 4. Regarding the Mahanta, does Harold Klemp take personally
> what others do or say regarding the position?
No.
> 4. Is Dawin Gross still a member of the line of Eck Masters?
Eckankar Masters? No. A Master of the Holy Spirit (Eck/EK)? I do
not know.
> 5. Did Darwin Gross steal and cheat?
I do not know.
> 6. Do you consider the line of Eck Masters to be THE Line of
> Truth carriers in the physical worlds?
Eckankar Masters? No. Masters of the EK? No. All Souls. Yes.
Net: Truth/EK manifests when-ever and where-ever it can, sometimes
from places whence and people you whom least expect it.
>
> Thank you
>
> Jane4410
You are welcome. Thanks for asking.
Ok then, Geoff
C. Plachowitz
> like the fundamentalist Christian who justifies their view by the
> Bible. For me some simply yes or no answers, please:
>
> 1. Does the LEM, Harold Klemp, communicate clearly, avoiding
> misunderstandings, sadness, & drama?
Yes to me.
> 2. Does the LEM, Harold Klemp, use the power of his words in
> the direction of truth & love?
Yes to me.
> 3. Does the LEM, Harold Klemp, speak with integrity?
Yes to me.
> 4. Regarding the Mahanta, does Harold Klemp take personally
> what others do or say regarding the position?
That's a personal question. Ask Harold Klemp.
> 4. Is Dawin Gross still a member of the line of Eck Masters?
I have never met a line of ECK Masters. Ask them.
> 5. Did Darwin Gross steal and cheat?
Darwin Gross did not steal from me or cheat me.
> 6. Do you consider the line of Eck Masters to be THE Line of
> Truth carriers in the physical worlds?
I have never met a line of ECK Masters. I will give them THE benefit
of the doubt and say yes.
>
> Thank you
You are welcome. Let me know if you encounter any contradictions in
your survey. The truth you come up with will be all your own to
share. (Did you know you asked seven questions.) Plachowitz
> Jane4410
wernertrp
> > All of the quotes and gathering materials from the literature is just
> > like the fundamentalist Christian who justifies their view by the
> > Bible. For me some simply yes or no answers, please:
> >
> > 1. Does the LEM, Harold Klemp, communicate clearly, avoiding
> > misunderstandings, sadness, & drama?
>
> Yes.
>
> > 2. Does the LEM, Harold Klemp, use the power of his words in
> > the direction of truth & love?
>
> Yes.
>
> > 3. Does the LEM, Harold Klemp, speak with integrity?
>
> Yes.
>
> > 4. Regarding the Mahanta, does Harold Klemp take personally
> > what others do or say regarding the position?
>
> No.
>
> > 4. Is Dawin Gross still a member of the line of Eck Masters?
>
> Eckankar Masters? No. A Master of the Holy Spirit (Eck/EK)? I do
> not know.
>
> > 5. Did Darwin Gross steal and cheat?
>
> I do not know.
I think Jane 4410 is referencing to the one or more million coup.