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Comments by a TuzaHu ~ now & then
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Santim Vah
Jul 11, 2012, 7:34:30 AM7/11/12
to
aka DavidP111, who has posted here and on other eckankar history
boards.
TuzaHu also posted to Ford's HCS bulletin board.
Doug Marman mentions him on 01/01/2004
Quote: "To begin with I will offer up information on your quote that
reported Gail, Paul Twitchell's wife, as saying that Paul made up the
whole Eckankar thing. In Chapter 10 of your book, you reference your
source for this information being a website showing some Internet
posts by a Tuzahu. Unfortunately, this person who posted under the
name of Tuzahu has been shown to have written a whole slew of outright
lies.
For example, in that same series of posts that you reference, Tuzahu
claims that Paul's first wife finally had it with Paul over his
womanizing when Paul met Gail. Elsewhere he has claimed that Paul's
first wife told him that she divorced Paul after he met Gail. In fact
this is false, as records show that Paul and his first wife were
divorced many years before he met Gail.
Tuzahu also in another string of emails made the claim that he had met
with Brad Steiger and the Brad had played for Tuzahu some of his hours
and hours of taped interviews with Paul, showing how Paul and Brad had
made his early childhood history up. Tuzahu claimed the he cried for
days after hearing Paul's own voice. I contacted Brad Steiger myself
to verify this. Brad was shocked and wrote back, why would anyone tell
a lie like that? Brad said that there wasn't even an ounce of truth in
it. In fact, Brad and Paul never met for interviews and so there were
no taped meetings. Tuzahu also claimed that Brad had written some of
the Eckankar books, even though they had Paul's name as the author.
Brad said this was also a lie, along with a number of other claims
this person made.
My point is that unfortunately the outright lies of this source, I
think you will agree, make him very unreliable. This doesn't prove
that what he has reported about Gail is false, but it sure does prove
that it can't be taken as truth without something more to prove that
it is true. Wouldn't you agree?
For example, Tuzahu claims that he recorded the conversation and has
it on tape, as well as hours of conversations with Paul's first wife.
I have already written to him asking if he would share the
information, since like you I am interested in the truth coming out on
these things. I received no response from him. If he can produce the
taped conversation, that would indeed be proof and worthy of
reporting. However, if he does not, I think you will understand my
point that as things stand today these comments are nothing but
unsubstantiated rumors from a highly unreliable source. "
end quote
http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/dispBB.aspx?st=141&page=180
===
Doug speaks about TuzaHu again here in Chapter 11 of his online book:
(I can not see if it is in TWT book or in Chp 11)
Quote: "However, perhaps the most significant problem with David's
argument that Paul was trying to cover up his past, came after I read
the following post on David's ECKANKAR newsgroup, written by an ECKist
who posted under the name of TuzaHu:
I got in Eckankar when I was in the 8th grade. A local neighbor
introduced me to the teaching who knew Paul back in the old days with
Kirpal Singh (Vandella Walker) who, at the time was the highest
initiate in ECK (a 7th at the time). Through Vandella I got to spend a
lot of time with Paul...
This was when I was a new Eckist in Ohio. I got in Eck in 1968
and can remember when Paul had a good deal of hair left!!!
After reading this, I then remembered how many of the early
ECKists had followed Paul from Kirpal's group and from L. Ron
Hubbard's group. The idea of Paul trying to cover up or deny his
previous associations with those teachers is ridiculous. There were
way too many in ECK who knew all about Paul's past. David's whole
theory just doesn't work.
TuzaHu went on to write some other interesting things about the
interesting time he spent with Camille Ballowe, Paul's first wife:
Off the top of my head I can recall a few interesting things. She
and Paul dated in High School...
Paul also was involved in the beginning of Scientology and wanted
to teach Soul Travel but L. Ron would have nothing to do with it. [I
have heard this same thing from a number of old timers, even though
David refuses to accept it. DM.]
Paul was a promoter for a while with actor Jimmy Durante and
baseball star Dizzy Dean...Paul was a born promoter...
Paul was practicing forms of Astral Projection, as it sounds from
his early years according to her. He would sit for hours at the
kitchen table staring into a flame from an oil lamp he had. He did
that for years, hours on end. He later wrote and published a song that
was recorded called "the Lamp."
According to her Paul had a deep spiritual side, he read the
Bible almost every day for many years along with other spiritual
books. His interest in out of the body movement was his main interest,
but little was written about it. He called it dreamwalking at the
time. He wanted to control and teach it from the time they married.
This information completely undermines the idea that David has
tried to promote; that Paul learned out of the body travel from Swami
Premananda and Kirpal Singh, in the 50's. In fact, Paul had always
been interested in spiritual truth, as Camille said, even in his
teens."
end quote
http://www.littleknownpubs.com/Dialog_Ch_Eleven.htm
=====
In Jan 2000
From http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/eckankarhistory (DL old site)
Another x-Eckist
tuzahu (41/M/Phoenix, Arizona)
1/27/00 6:16 am
I just discovered this site. I was in Eckankar from 1968-1979 when
Darwin kicked me out after spending 9 days with Paul's first wife,
Camille, his sister in law and other Twitchell family members. I had
many questions about In My Soul that Darwin did not want
asked...so...out the back door I went!!!
I have a long, amazing story about those times and the reactions I got
from my Eck friends but that was then and this is now. I did get to
spend a good deal of time with Paul in the early years including being
one of the last to see him alive and one of the first to see him in
death.
http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/eckankarsurvivors/tuzahu.html
Also this :: which is where Doug selected the information he shared
above.
Reply Re: Another x-Eckist
tuzahu(45/M/Phoenix, Arizona)
1/31/00 9:39 pm
Who got the Steiger tapes?
(Did you write up anything on your 9 days with Camille? Whatever
happened to Vandilla Walker and Mary Hald? Did Vandilla talk to you
about Kirpal Singh? )
I looks like my first post of the day did not make it to Yahoo...I
will have to rewrite it...telling about getting into Eck and the night
Paul Twitchell died...I was there with him minutes before he died and
shortly after his death and before the paramedics arrived. I was with
Vandella when she told Gail Paul had died...so give me a day or so and
I will rewrite that part. I see my 'part 2" made it though
I have written transcrips of my time with Paul's first wife at the
time, someplace in storage, also have many hours of tape of interview
with her.
Off the top of my head I can recall a few interesting things. She and
Paul dated in Highschool. Paul was sterile...so they never had any
children. This was good for Paul because he LOVED women and lots of
them. He dated Hollywood starlett...Jinx Falkenberg and Semi- screen
star Ruth Savage for a time while married to Camille. She put up a lot
of his running around. In the late 40's and early 50's they lived in
Washington DC. Paul had several affairs there with the Kirpal Singh
group. Paul also was involved in the beginning of Scientology and
wanted to teach Soul Travel but Ron L. would have nothing to do with
it.
Paul was a promoter for a while with actor Jimmy Durante and baseball
star Dizzy Dean...whom fired Paul after he absconded with some
cash...at least Dizzy accused him of that...
Paul was a born promoter. His wife told me that Paul would attend
county fairs and pay to have himself paged so people would hear his
name. She gave me a post card Paul had made up in the early 1940's of
a lavish mansion...printed on the front was "home of Paul Twitchell
American Author" of course, Paul had never lived there.
Paul never traveled out of the USA except to go the the Canadian side
of Niagara Falls...so he never did go to India..she read In My Soul
and just laughted..."that's Paul," she would say!!!!
She finally had it out with Paul over Gail...she had put up with his
womanizing for long enough. They were married just over 20 years. She
said Paul's favorite phrase to say was, "Razamataz.." Kind of sounds
like Rebazar Tarzs, huh???
Paul was practicing forms of Astral Projection, as it sounds from his
early years according to her. He would sit for hours at the kitchen
table staring into a flame from an oil lamp he had. He did that for
years...hours on end. He later wrote and published a song that was
recorded called "the Lamp'
According to her Paul had a deep spiritual side, he read the Bible
almost every day for many years along with other spiritual books. His
interest in out of the body movement was his main interest but little
was written about it. He called it dreamwalking at the time. He wanted
to control and teach it from the time they married.
----------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------
DavidP111 again .. aka TuzaHu
Mar 1, 2003
Then again, would you have come to this realization had you NOT bought
the
discourses or the tapes or the jewelry? Isn't life about experiences,
burning your hand on the stove or finding new ways to see the world?
Burning
your hand on the stove doesn't mean the stove is bad, it just means
respect
it, learn to use it not be used BY it.
I was very angry and hurt after finding out the lies Paul and Darwin
told me.
In fact, I was a mess. But, I'm over it. Lesson's learned. And to tell
the truth, I use much of what I learned from them to this very day.
I'm no
longer in the victim role, but just look back and see I took an
interesting
side trip and made some friends that one way or another, taught me
some
valuable lessons.
I'm strong today. Actually, I'm grateful for what I've learned from
Paul and
Darwin. Not that forgives what they did, but I am in contol of my own
viewpoint and rather than toss the baby out with the wash water, I
athink of
Paul and Darwin, I have some fond memories. I spent a good deal of
time with
Paul, he was very kind to me. I remember how funny Darwin was drunk
and high
as we tried to get him together to go on stage at a seminar.
Crazy, huh? And people in the thousands sat there paying loads of
money to
fly around the world to gain some insight from a man that was just
doing his
best not to fall off the bar stool.
Lessons learned...
Some people need to make great strides in life. Others are thrilled to
see a
butterfly flutter by. There are always both kinds on the planet,
always have
and always will. You don't have to dangle a very big carrot to get
some
people's attention.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankartruth/message/2618
all posts
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankartruth/msearch?query=davidrobert111&pos=0&cnt=10
=====
Another a.r.e. post by Doug in Dec 2003, about TuzaHu
DOUG RESPONDS:
Hey Brother,
It's interesting that you posted this, since I was just reading Ford's
book and
have found that he did indeed give a reference to his quote about
Gail's
comment that what Paul created was a fraud.
And guess what? Sean was right.
In Chapter 10 of Ford's book, he has a footnote (number 9) in the back
of the
book in reference to the quote: "See Message 386 at
http://www.angelfire.com/sys/popup_source.shtml?search_string=tuzahu."
Tuzahu is the person who also posted as DavidP111, who told the
longest string
of intentional lies we've seen on a.r.e. so far. This is who Sean
suspected was
the source.
This is exactly why it is useful to have references to facts that make
such
accusations. Now we can decide if it is a source we trust, is it a
solid fact
verified by multiple sources (what journalists usually require)?
As for Paul's comments: I think if he makes assertions that can't be
verified,
then we should simply take them as a story. There is no need to be
swayed one
way or the other by such things, unless we have some way of verifying
these
things for ourselves.
Yes, it does work both ways. I agree with that.
Doug.
end quote
thread link - Leaf, Doug & Sean :-)
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.eckankar/browse_frm/thread/6c64c4226af4b902/1df161413578f81c?lnk=gst&q=tuzahu#1df161413578f81c
or http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.eckankar/msg/4d13e17745f99040
====
Did anyone follow any of that? If you did, then well done! <G>
boards.
TuzaHu also posted to Ford's HCS bulletin board.
Doug Marman mentions him on 01/01/2004
Quote: "To begin with I will offer up information on your quote that
reported Gail, Paul Twitchell's wife, as saying that Paul made up the
whole Eckankar thing. In Chapter 10 of your book, you reference your
source for this information being a website showing some Internet
posts by a Tuzahu. Unfortunately, this person who posted under the
name of Tuzahu has been shown to have written a whole slew of outright
lies.
For example, in that same series of posts that you reference, Tuzahu
claims that Paul's first wife finally had it with Paul over his
womanizing when Paul met Gail. Elsewhere he has claimed that Paul's
first wife told him that she divorced Paul after he met Gail. In fact
this is false, as records show that Paul and his first wife were
divorced many years before he met Gail.
Tuzahu also in another string of emails made the claim that he had met
with Brad Steiger and the Brad had played for Tuzahu some of his hours
and hours of taped interviews with Paul, showing how Paul and Brad had
made his early childhood history up. Tuzahu claimed the he cried for
days after hearing Paul's own voice. I contacted Brad Steiger myself
to verify this. Brad was shocked and wrote back, why would anyone tell
a lie like that? Brad said that there wasn't even an ounce of truth in
it. In fact, Brad and Paul never met for interviews and so there were
no taped meetings. Tuzahu also claimed that Brad had written some of
the Eckankar books, even though they had Paul's name as the author.
Brad said this was also a lie, along with a number of other claims
this person made.
My point is that unfortunately the outright lies of this source, I
think you will agree, make him very unreliable. This doesn't prove
that what he has reported about Gail is false, but it sure does prove
that it can't be taken as truth without something more to prove that
it is true. Wouldn't you agree?
For example, Tuzahu claims that he recorded the conversation and has
it on tape, as well as hours of conversations with Paul's first wife.
I have already written to him asking if he would share the
information, since like you I am interested in the truth coming out on
these things. I received no response from him. If he can produce the
taped conversation, that would indeed be proof and worthy of
reporting. However, if he does not, I think you will understand my
point that as things stand today these comments are nothing but
unsubstantiated rumors from a highly unreliable source. "
end quote
http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/dispBB.aspx?st=141&page=180
===
Doug speaks about TuzaHu again here in Chapter 11 of his online book:
(I can not see if it is in TWT book or in Chp 11)
Quote: "However, perhaps the most significant problem with David's
argument that Paul was trying to cover up his past, came after I read
the following post on David's ECKANKAR newsgroup, written by an ECKist
who posted under the name of TuzaHu:
I got in Eckankar when I was in the 8th grade. A local neighbor
introduced me to the teaching who knew Paul back in the old days with
Kirpal Singh (Vandella Walker) who, at the time was the highest
initiate in ECK (a 7th at the time). Through Vandella I got to spend a
lot of time with Paul...
This was when I was a new Eckist in Ohio. I got in Eck in 1968
and can remember when Paul had a good deal of hair left!!!
After reading this, I then remembered how many of the early
ECKists had followed Paul from Kirpal's group and from L. Ron
Hubbard's group. The idea of Paul trying to cover up or deny his
previous associations with those teachers is ridiculous. There were
way too many in ECK who knew all about Paul's past. David's whole
theory just doesn't work.
TuzaHu went on to write some other interesting things about the
interesting time he spent with Camille Ballowe, Paul's first wife:
Off the top of my head I can recall a few interesting things. She
and Paul dated in High School...
Paul also was involved in the beginning of Scientology and wanted
to teach Soul Travel but L. Ron would have nothing to do with it. [I
have heard this same thing from a number of old timers, even though
David refuses to accept it. DM.]
Paul was a promoter for a while with actor Jimmy Durante and
baseball star Dizzy Dean...Paul was a born promoter...
Paul was practicing forms of Astral Projection, as it sounds from
his early years according to her. He would sit for hours at the
kitchen table staring into a flame from an oil lamp he had. He did
that for years, hours on end. He later wrote and published a song that
was recorded called "the Lamp."
According to her Paul had a deep spiritual side, he read the
Bible almost every day for many years along with other spiritual
books. His interest in out of the body movement was his main interest,
but little was written about it. He called it dreamwalking at the
time. He wanted to control and teach it from the time they married.
This information completely undermines the idea that David has
tried to promote; that Paul learned out of the body travel from Swami
Premananda and Kirpal Singh, in the 50's. In fact, Paul had always
been interested in spiritual truth, as Camille said, even in his
teens."
end quote
http://www.littleknownpubs.com/Dialog_Ch_Eleven.htm
=====
In Jan 2000
From http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/eckankarhistory (DL old site)
Another x-Eckist
tuzahu (41/M/Phoenix, Arizona)
1/27/00 6:16 am
I just discovered this site. I was in Eckankar from 1968-1979 when
Darwin kicked me out after spending 9 days with Paul's first wife,
Camille, his sister in law and other Twitchell family members. I had
many questions about In My Soul that Darwin did not want
asked...so...out the back door I went!!!
I have a long, amazing story about those times and the reactions I got
from my Eck friends but that was then and this is now. I did get to
spend a good deal of time with Paul in the early years including being
one of the last to see him alive and one of the first to see him in
death.
http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/eckankarsurvivors/tuzahu.html
Also this :: which is where Doug selected the information he shared
above.
Reply Re: Another x-Eckist
tuzahu(45/M/Phoenix, Arizona)
1/31/00 9:39 pm
Who got the Steiger tapes?
(Did you write up anything on your 9 days with Camille? Whatever
happened to Vandilla Walker and Mary Hald? Did Vandilla talk to you
about Kirpal Singh? )
I looks like my first post of the day did not make it to Yahoo...I
will have to rewrite it...telling about getting into Eck and the night
Paul Twitchell died...I was there with him minutes before he died and
shortly after his death and before the paramedics arrived. I was with
Vandella when she told Gail Paul had died...so give me a day or so and
I will rewrite that part. I see my 'part 2" made it though
I have written transcrips of my time with Paul's first wife at the
time, someplace in storage, also have many hours of tape of interview
with her.
Off the top of my head I can recall a few interesting things. She and
Paul dated in Highschool. Paul was sterile...so they never had any
children. This was good for Paul because he LOVED women and lots of
them. He dated Hollywood starlett...Jinx Falkenberg and Semi- screen
star Ruth Savage for a time while married to Camille. She put up a lot
of his running around. In the late 40's and early 50's they lived in
Washington DC. Paul had several affairs there with the Kirpal Singh
group. Paul also was involved in the beginning of Scientology and
wanted to teach Soul Travel but Ron L. would have nothing to do with
it.
Paul was a promoter for a while with actor Jimmy Durante and baseball
star Dizzy Dean...whom fired Paul after he absconded with some
cash...at least Dizzy accused him of that...
Paul was a born promoter. His wife told me that Paul would attend
county fairs and pay to have himself paged so people would hear his
name. She gave me a post card Paul had made up in the early 1940's of
a lavish mansion...printed on the front was "home of Paul Twitchell
American Author" of course, Paul had never lived there.
Paul never traveled out of the USA except to go the the Canadian side
of Niagara Falls...so he never did go to India..she read In My Soul
and just laughted..."that's Paul," she would say!!!!
She finally had it out with Paul over Gail...she had put up with his
womanizing for long enough. They were married just over 20 years. She
said Paul's favorite phrase to say was, "Razamataz.." Kind of sounds
like Rebazar Tarzs, huh???
Paul was practicing forms of Astral Projection, as it sounds from his
early years according to her. He would sit for hours at the kitchen
table staring into a flame from an oil lamp he had. He did that for
years...hours on end. He later wrote and published a song that was
recorded called "the Lamp'
According to her Paul had a deep spiritual side, he read the Bible
almost every day for many years along with other spiritual books. His
interest in out of the body movement was his main interest but little
was written about it. He called it dreamwalking at the time. He wanted
to control and teach it from the time they married.
----------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------
DavidP111 again .. aka TuzaHu
Mar 1, 2003
Then again, would you have come to this realization had you NOT bought
the
discourses or the tapes or the jewelry? Isn't life about experiences,
burning your hand on the stove or finding new ways to see the world?
Burning
your hand on the stove doesn't mean the stove is bad, it just means
respect
it, learn to use it not be used BY it.
I was very angry and hurt after finding out the lies Paul and Darwin
told me.
In fact, I was a mess. But, I'm over it. Lesson's learned. And to tell
the truth, I use much of what I learned from them to this very day.
I'm no
longer in the victim role, but just look back and see I took an
interesting
side trip and made some friends that one way or another, taught me
some
valuable lessons.
I'm strong today. Actually, I'm grateful for what I've learned from
Paul and
Darwin. Not that forgives what they did, but I am in contol of my own
viewpoint and rather than toss the baby out with the wash water, I
athink of
Paul and Darwin, I have some fond memories. I spent a good deal of
time with
Paul, he was very kind to me. I remember how funny Darwin was drunk
and high
as we tried to get him together to go on stage at a seminar.
Crazy, huh? And people in the thousands sat there paying loads of
money to
fly around the world to gain some insight from a man that was just
doing his
best not to fall off the bar stool.
Lessons learned...
Some people need to make great strides in life. Others are thrilled to
see a
butterfly flutter by. There are always both kinds on the planet,
always have
and always will. You don't have to dangle a very big carrot to get
some
people's attention.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankartruth/message/2618
all posts
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankartruth/msearch?query=davidrobert111&pos=0&cnt=10
=====
Another a.r.e. post by Doug in Dec 2003, about TuzaHu
DOUG RESPONDS:
Hey Brother,
It's interesting that you posted this, since I was just reading Ford's
book and
have found that he did indeed give a reference to his quote about
Gail's
comment that what Paul created was a fraud.
And guess what? Sean was right.
In Chapter 10 of Ford's book, he has a footnote (number 9) in the back
of the
book in reference to the quote: "See Message 386 at
http://www.angelfire.com/sys/popup_source.shtml?search_string=tuzahu."
Tuzahu is the person who also posted as DavidP111, who told the
longest string
of intentional lies we've seen on a.r.e. so far. This is who Sean
suspected was
the source.
This is exactly why it is useful to have references to facts that make
such
accusations. Now we can decide if it is a source we trust, is it a
solid fact
verified by multiple sources (what journalists usually require)?
As for Paul's comments: I think if he makes assertions that can't be
verified,
then we should simply take them as a story. There is no need to be
swayed one
way or the other by such things, unless we have some way of verifying
these
things for ourselves.
Yes, it does work both ways. I agree with that.
Doug.
end quote
thread link - Leaf, Doug & Sean :-)
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.eckankar/browse_frm/thread/6c64c4226af4b902/1df161413578f81c?lnk=gst&q=tuzahu#1df161413578f81c
or http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.eckankar/msg/4d13e17745f99040
====
Did anyone follow any of that? If you did, then well done! <G>
Santim Vah
Jul 11, 2012, 7:49:00 AM7/11/12
to Sean Gmail
Message 372 of 1411
(This is Anya? Or this person is saying that she was there with Anya?
Funny that Anya never mentioned this... >and the night Paul Twitchell
contacted Gail by phone.
Patti Simpson was not there the night Paul Died. Vandilla Walker spent
hours to finally locate Gail. I remember Vandilla making many phone
calls until hours later she was speaking with Gail. I was next to
Vandilla when she did reach Gail, who was 'in the mountains with
Darwin Gross that night. I don't know what state that was...or where.
Yes, Anya was in the room if not when Paul died immediately after..
The man from Pa that I mentioned I could not recall his name was Tom
Flamma. he is the one that announced to the table that Paul had died.
He was just that in tune.. with out missing a beat...he just made the
statement. Paul had left the table 15-25 minutes before he stated
that...again, I am estimating on the time, it was very shortly after
Paul retired from the late meal that Tom announced his death.
Vandilla Walker was a personal friend of Paul's from the early 1950's
and at the time, the higest initiate in Eckankar, a 7th in 1971. She
lived in Cincinnati, Ohio and was hosting the reginal seminar Paul had
attended.
------------------------------------------------
Message 374 of 1411
Reply Re: Another x-Eckist
tuzahu (45/M/Phoenix, Arizona)
2/2/00 8:43 am
Michael...read the posting I made on this. I was quoting Paul's first
wife, whom divorced in the early 1960's. The statement she made would
be about the time she spent with Paul...not what he did after their
divorce.
The reference was about Paul's travels to Paris and Tibet which he
never made.
In my early days in Eckankar much of this information was circulating
then. The quotes from Path of the Masters, Kirpal, early Eck documents
giving credit to Kirpal rather than Rebazar. I heard the talk but it
was not an issue with me at the time. I met Kirpal in 1972 in
Columbus, Ohio when he made a tour in the States.
From the manuscrips that were obtained from the Twitchell family,
Mattie and John, included a vintage copy of Tiger's Fang with Kirpal
being the master, not Rebazar. Last time I saw that manuscrip Ed
Peacin (spelling?) had it. This was also brought up in the court case
of Eckankar vs estate of Helen Frye in Prescott, Az in 1980.
My lesson from all of this is just as my grandmother had told me as a
kid, tell the truth in the beginning and you won't spend your life
covering it up.
Paul DID have a message. He definately had the knowledge and wisdom to
teach a spiritual path. I truely believe he was in tune with spirit.
My time with Paul was impressive, I loved the man. He was kind, he
cared. Why he created his wild past in In My Soul...the writings he
lifted, etc, I just can't say. Maybe it has a purpose in the whole
scheme of the teaching...maybe it is a way to separate the true
seekers and those wanting a path to follow for the heck of it.
Paths do have potholes, mountains, curves, puddles etc in them...if
you travel ANY path expect to find some. Not trying to make an excuse,
I can't, I am not Paul. But, I knew him and I still believe he did
what he thought he needed to do. I just don't know why.
Maybe "why" is not always necessary.
Maybe this experience was needed to make sure those who have trudged
through this part of their spiritual path to learn to make sure to be
honest, stand in your own power, stand up and tell the truth. Maybe
THAT is the lesson of Eckankar!
Maybe it has nothing to do with masters, hu, Sugmad etc... Maybe the
purpose is this. Become finely keen to make sure every word you say,
thought you think is true, pure and beneficial to the world.
via ..
http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/eckankarsurvivors/tuzahu.html
===
also as a reminder Eckankar History <g>
The true history of Eckankar has not been known since 1971 when the
great Sri Paul Twitchell translated (died).
“When Sri Paul Twitchell left this earth world in 1971, the Eckankar
adhocracy (leadership by committee) then were frantic to find a new
leader for their now leaderless path.
What none of them understood was that Paul had already taken the
Eckankar teachings non-public (aprakasana) upon his death. It is true
that Paul left a list with, Gail Twitchell, his wife containing four
suggested names but Paulji had never said which one was to take over
Eckankar.”
However, this website is not pointing specific fingers at any one
particular person and will never do so whilst just saying these things
are sadly happening. Our attitude is to move on and place the
attention upon and actually practice not just paying lipservice like
Eckankar (they talk of love constantly but hardly ever practice it –
the closer to the main office [Minnesota] the ironic cold attitude
worsens, but in some outreaches as in New York some chelas are very
goodly) to goodness, cheerfulness, and happiness in general as our
saying goes “A laugh a day keeps the Kal away.” Positive cheerful
behaviour defeats the negative destructiveness of Kal every time
although that is not the prime objective of the high path insofar as
it is to guide the ready Soul, the Light & Sound within one, back home
by way of Sahaji, Soul Travel (English).
http://www.eckankarhistory.com/
Reply Re: Another x-Eckist
tuzahu(45/M/Phoenix, Arizona)
2/2/00 5:36 am
tuzahu(45/M/Phoenix, Arizona)
(This is Anya? Or this person is saying that she was there with Anya?
Funny that Anya never mentioned this... >and the night Paul Twitchell
died...I was there >with him minutes before he died and shortly >after
his death and before the paramedics arrived. >I was with Vandella
>when she told Gail Paul had died...
Who is Vandella? Patty Simpson wrote that she was the first person who
his death and before the paramedics arrived. >I was with Vandella
>when she told Gail Paul had died...
contacted Gail by phone.
Patti Simpson was not there the night Paul Died. Vandilla Walker spent
hours to finally locate Gail. I remember Vandilla making many phone
calls until hours later she was speaking with Gail. I was next to
Vandilla when she did reach Gail, who was 'in the mountains with
Darwin Gross that night. I don't know what state that was...or where.
Yes, Anya was in the room if not when Paul died immediately after..
The man from Pa that I mentioned I could not recall his name was Tom
Flamma. he is the one that announced to the table that Paul had died.
He was just that in tune.. with out missing a beat...he just made the
statement. Paul had left the table 15-25 minutes before he stated
that...again, I am estimating on the time, it was very shortly after
Paul retired from the late meal that Tom announced his death.
Vandilla Walker was a personal friend of Paul's from the early 1950's
and at the time, the higest initiate in Eckankar, a 7th in 1971. She
lived in Cincinnati, Ohio and was hosting the reginal seminar Paul had
attended.
------------------------------------------------
Message 374 of 1411
Reply Re: Another x-Eckist
tuzahu (45/M/Phoenix, Arizona)
2/2/00 8:43 am
Michael...read the posting I made on this. I was quoting Paul's first
wife, whom divorced in the early 1960's. The statement she made would
be about the time she spent with Paul...not what he did after their
divorce.
The reference was about Paul's travels to Paris and Tibet which he
never made.
In my early days in Eckankar much of this information was circulating
then. The quotes from Path of the Masters, Kirpal, early Eck documents
giving credit to Kirpal rather than Rebazar. I heard the talk but it
was not an issue with me at the time. I met Kirpal in 1972 in
Columbus, Ohio when he made a tour in the States.
From the manuscrips that were obtained from the Twitchell family,
Mattie and John, included a vintage copy of Tiger's Fang with Kirpal
being the master, not Rebazar. Last time I saw that manuscrip Ed
Peacin (spelling?) had it. This was also brought up in the court case
of Eckankar vs estate of Helen Frye in Prescott, Az in 1980.
My lesson from all of this is just as my grandmother had told me as a
kid, tell the truth in the beginning and you won't spend your life
covering it up.
Paul DID have a message. He definately had the knowledge and wisdom to
teach a spiritual path. I truely believe he was in tune with spirit.
My time with Paul was impressive, I loved the man. He was kind, he
cared. Why he created his wild past in In My Soul...the writings he
lifted, etc, I just can't say. Maybe it has a purpose in the whole
scheme of the teaching...maybe it is a way to separate the true
seekers and those wanting a path to follow for the heck of it.
Paths do have potholes, mountains, curves, puddles etc in them...if
you travel ANY path expect to find some. Not trying to make an excuse,
I can't, I am not Paul. But, I knew him and I still believe he did
what he thought he needed to do. I just don't know why.
Maybe "why" is not always necessary.
Maybe this experience was needed to make sure those who have trudged
through this part of their spiritual path to learn to make sure to be
honest, stand in your own power, stand up and tell the truth. Maybe
THAT is the lesson of Eckankar!
Maybe it has nothing to do with masters, hu, Sugmad etc... Maybe the
purpose is this. Become finely keen to make sure every word you say,
thought you think is true, pure and beneficial to the world.
via ..
http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/eckankarsurvivors/tuzahu.html
===
also as a reminder Eckankar History <g>
The true history of Eckankar has not been known since 1971 when the
great Sri Paul Twitchell translated (died).
“When Sri Paul Twitchell left this earth world in 1971, the Eckankar
adhocracy (leadership by committee) then were frantic to find a new
leader for their now leaderless path.
What none of them understood was that Paul had already taken the
Eckankar teachings non-public (aprakasana) upon his death. It is true
that Paul left a list with, Gail Twitchell, his wife containing four
suggested names but Paulji had never said which one was to take over
Eckankar.”
However, this website is not pointing specific fingers at any one
particular person and will never do so whilst just saying these things
are sadly happening. Our attitude is to move on and place the
attention upon and actually practice not just paying lipservice like
Eckankar (they talk of love constantly but hardly ever practice it –
the closer to the main office [Minnesota] the ironic cold attitude
worsens, but in some outreaches as in New York some chelas are very
goodly) to goodness, cheerfulness, and happiness in general as our
saying goes “A laugh a day keeps the Kal away.” Positive cheerful
behaviour defeats the negative destructiveness of Kal every time
although that is not the prime objective of the high path insofar as
it is to guide the ready Soul, the Light & Sound within one, back home
by way of Sahaji, Soul Travel (English).
http://www.eckankarhistory.com/
Santim Vah
Jul 11, 2012, 7:40:41 AM7/11/12
to Sean Gmail
Eckankar History archives
Re: Another x-Eckist
Apparently none of you knows the true
circumstances surrounding <br>Twitchell's death. <br><br>What a
wonderful way to see the world. There is only ONE source
for information, only ONE viewpoint, only ONE way to
see something... Blinders...like what they used to
put on horses so they would just look straight ahead.
That is what this comment reminds me of.<br><br>I
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankarhistory/message/386
and all posts in 2000
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankarhistory/msearch?date=any&DM=------------&DD=----&DY=----&DM2=------------&DD2=----&DY2=----&AM=contains&AT=tuzahu&SM=contains&ST=&MM=contains&MT=&charset=UTF-8
Cheers fwiw
sean
Message has been deleted
Santim Vah
Jul 12, 2012, 1:50:05 AM7/12/12
to
Doug posted the Chp 11 text to a.r.e. in Jan 27 2001
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.eckankar/browse_frm/thread/aabc732753d75828/e056589527421bd6?#e056589527421bd6
This was about a year after TuzaHu had posted to DLs eckankarhistory
board.
then in an a.r.e. post by Doug in Dec 2003, about TuzaHu saying he is
the person who also posted as DavidP111, and was unreliable.
Then Doug Marman mentions him on 01/01/2004 as unreliable on the TS
bulletin board.
I cant find if Doug has also mentioned him in the TWT book, the quoted
content on a.r.e. etc doesnt seem to be in chp 11 of the TWT book.
but the original info is still on the Dialogues website. But what was
said after should take precedent? ... if one knew that the variations
in the info was out there, and knew how to find it. This is imho
another case of editing one's own writings, adjusting their
perspective based on present circumstances ..but with no later
explanation why something was changed.
this thread isnt about whether TuzaHu is reliable, or what he says is
close to true or not. having doubts doesn't mean the essential story
is not mostly correct, hard to tell .
It might be a classic example of how individuals can go about cherry
picking what they will share with others. -- and ways this can pan out
over the long haul.
It might also show how a vacuum is soon filled with something. :-)
---
let's see what Doug said again ..
This is exactly why it is useful to have references to facts that make
such accusations. Now we can decide if it is a source we trust, is it
a solid fact verified by multiple sources (what journalists usually
require)?
As for Paul's comments: I think if he makes assertions that can't be
verified, then we should simply take them as a story. There is no need
to be swayed one way or the other by such things, unless we have some
way of verifying
these things for ourselves.
Yes, it does work both ways. I agree with that.
Doug
it might make more sense, a whole lotta more sense, if one replaces
Paul's name with everyone else whomever said a word about Paul's life
and history .... be it Camille or Gail, Dr Bluth or Timothy Arnold,
Doug, Harold, Darwin, Ford J or David Lane, DavidP11 or Patti
Simpson ... Gail T or Brad Steiger, or moi. ;-)
Everyone has their perspectives about what they know, not everyone
knows the exact same things , some know more than others, some say
more than others.
another truism i learnt was that it is always best to assume that
there are things going on within a particular situation that one will
not know anything about. And even though so much makes no sense to
you, doesn't mean that it doesn't make sense to others more in the
know.
lastly, people do lie, do exagerrate, tell porkies, keep secrets, say
nothing, walk away, wash their hands of things, as well as not as
sharp or knowledgeable as they might appear. Life can be tricky. :-)
cheers sean
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