Middlin' Piddlin' Eckancult
Truth
From: cat...@aol.com (Catalyst)
Date: 11/15/01 10:29 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <6bfb8ec5.01111...@posting.google.com>
In Chapter Eight of his book EYE TO EYE, Ken Wilber seeks to develop
an objective yardstick for evaluating the legitimacy and authenticity
of new religious groups. He notes that all new religious groups tend
to get lumped together as problematic by the mainstream. Wilber writes
not ALL new religions are merely sophomoric platitudes or
mind-numbing cultisms. The great problem, of course, is how to tell
the difference. That is, how to devise any sort of BELIEVABLE scale or
criteria for differentiating the more valid religious movements from
the less valid or even harmful.
I would recommend readers look at Wilbers book to see how he
develops his evaluation scales. They are based on broadly accepted
psychological and spiritual principles. Though not perfect by any
means, they give at least a fairly decent way to measure and compare
religious groups in terms of their risk of being problematic. The
interesting question for this chat group is how ECKANKAR fares on the
scale. It appears to fall somewhere in the middle between problematic
and harmless, as we will see.
Wilber first details a three-scale system that has been applied
to a number of new religious groups in America, with a good ability to
retro-actively identify problematic cults like Jim Jones. The three
scales follow.
The first scale is monistic versus dualistic. Monistic groups are
less problematic. Dualistic groups are more problematic. Monistic
groups believe all individuals are ultimately one with the godhead,
regardless of beliefs. Dualistic groups believe only the chosen ones
can achieve exalted status. Where does ECKANKAR fit on this first
scale? ECKANKAR has a doctrine that says all souls come from God and
all souls eventually return to God. This fits the monistic definition.
But ECKANKAR hedges a bit on pure monism with a doctrine that says the
only way to get to the exalted state is through the Mahanta, the
Living ECK Master. So it is mostly monistic with a shade of dualistic.
The second scale is charismatic versus technical. Charismatic
groups are more problematic, technical groups are less problematic.
Charismatic groups are those that tend to focus on a leader. Technical
groups, like Integral Yoga or Zen Buddhism, focus on technique.
ECKANKAR talks much about the techniques of the spiritual exercises,
but on the whole is leader-focused, making it Charismatic. The
Mahanta, the Living ECK Master is the heart of the program. So on
scale two ECKANKAR is problematic.
The third scale is One-level versus Two-level. One-level is more
problematic, Two-level is less problematic. One-level groups believe
that salvation is had on earth. Two-level groups tend to see
liberation as being accomplished in a transtemporal realm. ECKANKAR
fits the latter less problematic.
The least cult-like groups would do well in all three scales. For
example Vendanta is Monistic, Technical, Two-level. It has a very low
probability of succumbing to bad cult-like behavior. Jim Jones or
Charles Manson groups are Dualistic, Charismatic, One-Level, and
therefore most prone to cultish self-destruction.
ECKANKAR is mostly Monistic, Charismatic, Two-level. This is two
out of three, putting it on the safer side of the equation.
Wilbers second system is a five-scale one that gives five scales
of his own which we can measure ECKANKAR with. These are five traits
of more authentic groups.
First, authentic groups are transrational. Specifically they use
teachings and disciplines that develop higher states of consciousness.
The encourage disciplines that require sustained practice,
concentration, and will. They explicitly rest on a moral foundation.
They are at least as hard to master as, say, a doctorate. ECKANKAR
fits this scale fairly well.
Second, they are anchored in what Wilber calls a legitimate
tradition, which means they have an external legitimacy. For example,
it would be hard for a Buddhist meditation master to proclaim himself
a sole authority because he has 2500 years of tradition behind him as
ballast. ECKANKAR is trying to establish such a legitimacy. Paul
claims to have a long lineage behind him to give ECKANKAR some
ballast. But the movement is too much Pauls creation and too new to
get a very high rating of external legitimacy scale.
Third is phase-specific authority. Wilber notes that authority is
not inherently bad. Nearly all esoteric teachings employ the tradition
of the master-student relationship, where the master is an authority
over the student for a phase. But the key point Wilber makes
is that the teacher is seen as being an authority only for a phase of
the students growth. Once the student achieves the spiritual goal, the
teacher steps aside and his role of authority is finished. A teacher
who claims to have authority over the student permanently tends toward
cult behavior. Is the Living ECK Master phase specific? In theory he
is. The student becomes his own master in time. In actual practice
almost nobody becomes a master in a given lifetime in ECKANKAR. So the
Living ECK Master becomes a de facto permanent authority to the chela.
Therefore it seems ECKANKAR is in the middle on this one
theoretically phase specific, but not much in real practice.
The fourth factor is that the group is NOT headed by a Perfect
Master. Wilber writes, Many devotees consider their master perfect in
all ways, the ultimate guru. This is almost always a problematic
thing, because the devotee, in confusing essence with existence, is
invited to project his or her own archaic, narcissistic, omnipotent
fantasies onto the perfect guru. All sorts of archaic and magical
primary process cognitions are thus reactivated. The guru can do
anything. How great the guru is. In fact, how great I must be to be
among the chosen. It is an extremely narcissistic position. But of
course the guru eventually shows his or her human side (thank God).
But the devotee is devastated, disillusioned, crushed. The devotee
then either leaves, because the guru can no longer support the
devotees narcissistic glamour, or tries to rationalize the gurus
actions. Drunk? The master got drunk? Well, you know, like he
was just emphasizing the evils of intoxicants by example. How does
ECKANKAR do here? It depends on the ECKist. Some suffer from the
Perfect Master glamour and some do not. And the ECK scriptures are
equally ambivalent. The Living ECK Master is sometimes portrayed as
the ultimate, perfect guru, and sometimes portrayed as quite human. So
ECKANKAR again falls in the middle on this scale.
The final factor is whether the group is out to save the world.
ECKANKAR tends not to play this role, so it does fine on this factor.
How does it all add up for Wilbers five-fold scale? Scale 1 was a
plus. Scale 2 was closer to a minus. Scale 3 was in the middle. Scale
4 was in the middle. Scale 5 was a plus.
In summary, how problematic is ECKANKAR on the two scales that
Wilber gives in his book? On the three-fold scale ECKANKAR gets two
pluses and one minus. On the five fold scale it gets 1 minus, 2
pluses, and 2 neutrals. Looks like ECKANKAR is neither a high-risk
cult nor a low-risk one, but somewhere in the middle.
Sean
Australia Drought Declared, the worst in our nations 101 year history
......... does anyone have a spare rainforest they could lend us?
What about a potted plant then?
Or even a bucket of water would be nice!
<G>
WARNING: Tourist visas are now being stamped "Entry permitted on mandatory
condition all showers to be taken with a friend"
I'm taking a large banner to the International Airport tomorrow:
"Single Japanese ladies please enquire here."
It's always been my motto to be friendly to tourists you know.
<vbg>
brian fletcher
>
> WARNING: Tourist visas are now being stamped "Entry permitted on mandatory
> condition all showers to be taken with a friend"
>
> I'm taking a large banner to the International Airport tomorrow:
> "Single Japanese ladies please enquire here."
>
> It's always been my motto to be friendly to tourists you know.
> <vbg>
>
Knowing you, it'l most probably be a short one ...;-) (shower that is).!!!
Sounds as though it should be also a cold one ;-)
Brian
Sean
news:3df4c4c8$0$28...@echo-01.iinet.net.au...
Me thinks you could be right there sri brian <vbg>
Still nice to fantacise though even if just for a moment. ;-)
Michael Basso
Olivia-Newton John used to be my favorite !!!
Sean <pe...@river.bend.org> wrote in message
news:3df4c937$0$25755$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
cher
Couldn't stand not being noticed. Are you now following in your masters
footsteps? <grin>
Truth wrote:
>
> Subject: ECKANKAR on the cult scale
> From: cat...@aol.com (Catalyst)
> Date: 11/15/01 10:29 PM Pacific Standard Time
> Message-id: <6bfb8ec5.01111...@posting.google.com>
>
> In Chapter Eight of his book EYE TO EYE, Ken Wilber seeks to develop
> an objective yardstick for evaluating the legitimacy and authenticity
> of new religious groups. He notes that all new religious groups tend
<snip the rest of cattleprods piece>
cher
<smile> Sorry to hear about the fires down under. Sure does look scarey
from up here when they run the images on the news. My heart goes out to
you guys....
Sean
--
DISCLAIMER: Trust your own instincts.
"Michael Basso" <mb1...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:at2kol$ons$1...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net...
> Seems to me that those Austrialian ladies are pretty awesome, too.
>
> Olivia-Newton John used to be my favorite !!!
>
You know what they say about familiarity. Living in paradise, well it just
becomes another day.... same'ol same'ol ;-))
I did like it when she cut loose with her Physical album. All in all she's
wonderful person, heart of gold.
cheers
Sean
news:3DF4ED92...@worldnet.att.net...
> How about a rain dance? It didn't do much for the desert but who knows.
> <smile> Sorry to hear about the fires down under. Sure does look scarey
> from up here when they run the images on the news. My heart goes out to
> you guys....
>
Yeah thanks Cher, well some folk are really in the wars here. The drought
however overall is much more stressful across the land than the busfires
themselves as far as real impact. We've had some good rainfall in my area on
the coast, thunderstorms and the like which is great here in good ole
surburbia basically, but the farmers of all types are in grim grim straits
at present. You know the old saying, no rain no water, no farmer no food.
This too shall pass ........ rain dances could be the go. ;-)
brian fletcher
"Fantacising saves water"
;-)
Brian
"Sean" <pe...@river.bend.org> wrote in message
news:3df4c937$0$25755$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
cher
here too. Water bans everywhere. I hope things look up for you guys. Got
a soft spot in my heart for that little rock you live on. Lots of really
special Souls live there. <smile>
Sean
area with good soaking rain. All fires are out.
And inland from me, they their first decent rain since February this morning
too. All good signs. <G>
--
DISCLAIMER: Trust your own instincts.
"cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3DF4ED92...@worldnet.att.net...
Sean
> How about a drought motto.
>
> "Fantacising saves water"
>
> ;-)
>
> Brian
>
ahem! Yes brian that does seem to be a truism indeed! <G>
Sean
Well some of it is about trees, most of it is about Attitude, but trees can
do so much for our attitude too. ;-))
See other post, things are looking up. God bless your soft spot. <smile>
--
DISCLAIMER: Trust your own instincts.
"cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3DF555F8...@worldnet.att.net...
cher
Of course all things in balance... but I'd rather have rain then snow
any day. <smile> I love the sound of it on the roof, and the smell of it
as the ground gives up the heat. I love the sound of thunder and the
rainbows against bruised clouds. Yep.... and the steam on the streets
when the sun comes out again and the puddles disappear. One of my
favorite earth things... I guess. <wink> I'm glad that the rains came.
:-)
cher
ring to it, Sean. I've met trees that can change a persons attitude, if
you just relax long enough leaning against it. Pretty special gifts.
<wink>