"Brothers in Arms"
Etznab
Going back to the "root" of the problem it
looks like much of the Arab / Israeli conflict
rests with how one interprets the Bible. Here
is an example of what I'm talking about:
"Muslims believe that when Abraham peace
be upon him, the father of Isaac and Ishmael
(Ismail), offered his son for sacrifice for GOD
Almighty, he offered Ishmael. Jews and Chris-
tians believe that he offered Isaac.
"The conflict between the Jews and Christians,
and the Muslims, is much more serious than
disagreeing on a story. The Jews and Chris-
tians believe that any son or daughter born
from a Servant or Slave woman is not consid-
ered a biological son or daughter. Muslims
on the other hand, believe that any son or
daughter born from any mother is a biological
son or daughter. Not only that, but the slave
woman instantly becomes free.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/isaac_and_ishmael.htm
The following references give etymology
and point out places in the Bible where the
stories for each person can be found.
Ysmaal - "Transliterated Hebrew spelling
for the word 'Ishmael' [Genesis 16:11]: And
the angel of the LORD said unto her; Behold,
thou art with child, and shalt bear a son; and
thou shalt call his name Ishmael, because the
LORD hath heard thy affliction. [Genesis 16:12]:
And he will be a wild man; his hand against
every man, and every man's hand against him;
and he shall dwell in the presence of all his
brethren. Associated spellings: Ishmael."
Hgr - "Transliterated Hebrew spelling for the word/words
'Hagar' [Genesis 16:1]. Other
definitions include: flight; Sarah's Egyptian
slave girl; Abraham's concubine; Ishmael's
mother."
Ytschq - "Transliterated Hebrew spelling for
the word/words 'Isaac' [Genesis 17:19; 21:3,
etc.]. Other definitions include: to laugh,
laughter; the firstborn son of Abraham and
Sarah. Associated spellings/words: Isaac."
sry - "Transliterated Hebrew spelling for the word/words 'princess'.
Other definitions in-
clude: the original name for Sarah, the wife
of Abraham [Abram]. Associated spellings/
words: Saray; srym, sarim ['princes'] (Late
Hebrew); rznym, roznim ['princes'] (Old
Hebrew)."
Sarah - "Definitions: lady or princess; the wife
of Abraham in the Old Testament who became
the mother of Isaac at - age ninety. Associated spellings/words:
Sarai, Sari."
***********************************************
From what I can gather, the classical
story has it that Sarah became jealous
of Hagar because she was able to give
Abraham a son, whereas Sarah ("Sari")
could not. Sarah persuaded Abraham
(I believe) to have Hagar and her son
banished, or sent away. Years later,
Isaac was born.
What should any of this have to do with
who is God's favored "Chosen" people, or
who lives where? I don't know. Especially
if the Bible narrative is symbolic, mythical,
dubious and / or a corrupted and altered
form of the truth.
http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/d/dire_straits/brothers_in_arms.html
Etznab
Santim Vah
I think that you are drawing an INCREDIBLY long Bow here Etznab.
Sure much of both teachings have been "internalised" into real people
but I seriously doubt your analysis that it has to do with who
Abrahams sons were 5000 years ago or when ever it was.
However I do love Brothers in Arms nice song great album :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5JkHBC5lDs
Sorry if you are still on dial up there. :-(
Etznab
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sean,
I don't think it has to do with that either,
but probably more with what people believe
about it. It is not only what people believe
about that part of written scripture, but the
other parts of the Bible as well, and how it
is each person interprets them.
Remember, many people were inspired
to search for "The Promised Land". Some,
in the process, converted everybody that
came between them and their goal. Lands
were taken and wars fought. At one time
in history a single location in the Middle
East changed hands from one people to
another. Still, people are fighting over it.
Who are the "people" mostly fighting
in that area today? Is it "Christians" and
"Muslims"?, or "Arabs" and "Jews"?
The two "religions" draw from many of
the same stories, but do not all interpret
them in the same way. IMO.
This amounts to part of what I wanted
to hint at. That we are all brothers (and
sisters, etc.) and I think (like the song)
people are "fools to make war" - & over
what basically amounts to so many old
stories in a book.
If the Bible were compared to an individual,
consider how much influence that one person
has had over human history. The illusion is, in
my opinion, IT'S A BOOK! The book didn'd do
any of those things in history, like make war, it
was so many people interpreting it. It was so
many people influenced by that one book.
Etznab
Santim Vah
No worries I agree with you 100% , thanks for claryfying.
a side comment about "the promised land" ---- and other things in the
old testament. So often these things have only ever been given a
literal context and meaning. Modern man, and modern christians, jews
and muslims imho really miss the boat on all of this ... and the
stupid arguments about Genesis and the creation of the world that
idiot fundamentalists put up and are grossly MANIPULATING the American
culture today with.
A fantastic little book that was included in PT's list of books in
Letters to Gail is "The Secret Door to Success" by Florence Shinn
A must read book ONCE in anyone's life to help break down the mental
barriers about how the old bible text were written and what Value is
actually still left if one has the wisdom to read the Bible properly
and be discerning about. Alas the died in the wool fundamentalist and
extremist wouldn't ever read such a book , they'd BURN IT ... LOL
I must be on a Book recommendation tour today!! <vbg>
READ IT HERE FOR FREE ON THE BEST WEBSITE ON THE PLANET - Scribd.com
http://www.scribd.com/doc/12201608/Florence-Scovel-Shinn-Secret-Door-to-Success-The
*Peace in the Middle East*