Eck Master <---> Threat Master
mahav...@yahoo.com
Threats to the chela thinking of leaving Eckankar are documented, not
only in Pauji's extant lit, but in Harold's own writings:
"THE WRATH OF THE ECK CRASHES DOWN upon anybody who is still a slave
to the
ego and deserts the Master (of Eckankar)...Not once will he see the
connection
between his betrayal of the ECK and the HORRENDOUS TROUBLES that
strike him like a plague
on every hand. And thus, he goes downward on the spiral of awareness
until
he leaves this body in hopeless despair, still wondering why the fates
have
treated him so cruelly."-- the Harold Klemp, Satsang III, #8
Do people new to Eckankar know that Harold issues such threats? NOPE.
They have to wait til they get the advanced discourses.
Just one reason why thinking people dislike Eckankar.
Twitchell's Threats:
"Whosoever...shall divulge the secrets of his initiation...shall be
deprived
of
his sight and tongue in order to never say anything about the degrees
of
initiation in ECKANKAR" -- SKS Book 2, pages 177-178, 2nd edition,
10th
printing,
1988
"But once the chela [member of Eckankar] has become a member of the
inner
circle,
HE CANNOT RESIGN...Those few have found that spiritual decay sets in
immediately,
affecting the health, material life and spiritual life, and BRINGS
DEATH
MORE
SWIFTLY." -- SKS Book 2, page 197, (page 166 in older editions)
"It also means that anyone who opposes the Mahanta (Twitchell) in any
of the
worlds is foolish for the ECK (Holy Spirit) will swiftly work in
retribution" --
SKS Book 1, pages 214-215, 2nd edition, 10th printing, 1987
"To ridicule, to scorn, to speak mockingly of the words of the
Mahanta...is
to
bring woes on the advocator of doubt...and causes him to SUFFER UNTOLD
HARDSHIPS."-- SKS Book 1, page 107, 2nd edition, 10th printing, 1987
Threats found in other books written by Paul Twitchell:
"Some persons are apt to talk negatively or criticize ECK without
thinking.
They
should know that to criticize or talk negatively about the ECK or the
Master, or
to hold any overt or covert negative attitude toward either, WILL
BRING
SWIFT
REPRISAL. When anyone sends out such vibrations, they cannot do any
harm
because
the Master is always shielded in a protective coat of light. The
vibrations
will
return to the sender, and he receives the full blast of his own
actions."--
From
"ECKANKAR Presents: THE MANU SAMHITA The Code of Ethics"
"The chela (member of Eckankar) cannot think ill of the spiritual
works of
ECK,
nor can he criticize the Living ECK Master at any time. If he does,
his
spiritual progress will be halted and he may suffer losses in a
material
way."--
Eck Satsang Discourses, first series, page 60, Paul Twitchell
"This vegetable state, something with hardly any emotions or thinking
ability
left, also occurs if one should have the initiation in ECKANKAR and
break
off to
join another group, regardless of whether it is a psychic, religious,
or
philosophical organization." -- The Eck Satsang Discourses, Third
Series,
Page 1 &
2, 1971, 1995
"He who leaves the path of ECK, or refuses to follow it, will dwell in
the
astral Hells until the Master takes mercy upon him".
Paul Twitchell, "The
Spiritual
Notebook" page 221, 2nd edition, 1990
Join Eckankar, if you want to be treated like a dog.
@aloha.net Rich
than I had ever imagined when I first read them.
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Rich~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Sailing the CyberSea~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<mahav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9d5f56f7.04110...@posting.google.com...
Ken
"Rich" <rsmith @aloha.net> wrote ...
>
> Given the sampling we see in this NG, these quotes seem more accurate
> than I had ever imagined when I first read them.
As in, the people who leave Eckankar often have their knickers in a
knot? After a while though, you'd think that they'd get tired of it and
fix them. But hey, whatever suites 'em I suppose. Maybe they like
the feeling after a while ;-)
cher
Ouch.... <smile>
Jadoo941
>From: "Rich" rsm...@aloha.net
>Date: 11/10/2004 4:53 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <cmt33...@news1.newsguy.com>
>
>Given the sampling we see in this NG, these quotes seem more accurate
>than I had ever imagined when I first read them.
You know what's scary? People like Rich actually subscribe to these
horrendously abusive and diabolical threats. He would be an Inquisitor in
another life. Maybe he was.
cher
>
> >Subject: Re: Eck Master <---> Threat Master
> >From: "Rich" rsm...@aloha.net
> >Date: 11/10/2004 4:53 AM Pacific Standard Time
> >Message-id: <cmt33...@news1.newsguy.com>
> >
> >Given the sampling we see in this NG, these quotes seem more accurate
> >than I had ever imagined when I first read them.
>
> You know what's scary? People like Rich actually subscribe to these
> horrendously abusive and diabolical threats. He would be an Inquisitor in
> another life. Maybe he was.
This is coming from a person who can't see himself in his present role
of Inquisitor right this moment. <shaking her head> On all accounts,
you're a walking talking foregone conclusion, gary. <sigh>
Ken
"cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote ...
>
> Jadoo941 wrote:
>>
>> >Subject: Re: Eck Master <---> Threat Master
>> >From: "Rich" rsm...@aloha.net
>> >Date: 11/10/2004 4:53 AM Pacific Standard Time
>> >Message-id: <cmt33...@news1.newsguy.com>
>> >
>> >Given the sampling we see in this NG, these quotes seem more accurate
>> >than I had ever imagined when I first read them.
>>
>> You know what's scary? People like Rich actually subscribe to these
>> horrendously abusive and diabolical threats. He would be an Inquisitor in
>> another life. Maybe he was.
>
> This is coming from a person who can't see himself in his present role
> of Inquisitor right this moment. <shaking her head> On all accounts,
> you're a walking talking foregone conclusion, gary. <sigh>
"Jadoodle, The Grand Inquisitor of ALT Land!"
Got quite a ring to it.
Go for it J. Try it on.
Uhmmmm. It fit's like a glove, doesn't it?
"All Bow!"
;-)
cher
burning flesh in the morning. <chuckle>
Jadoo941
>Date: 11/12/2004 8:25 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <4194E27C...@worldnet.att.net>
Which of you has the guts to explicity renounce such venal threats?
Anybody?
cher
here! No one would even know what venal means unless they had a daddy
shamed out of politics under a scandal. LOL...... Poor old gary.
simon
> Given the sampling we see in this NG, these quotes seem more accurate
> than I had ever imagined when I first read them.
>
> ` o
> |
> ~/|
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> / | \
> -/ | \
> _ /____|___\_
> (___________/
> Rich~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Sailing the CyberSea~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Does this mean that you can name a few people who you have seen the
WRATH OF ECK CRASH DOWN ON? Who has Horrendous troubles here? Who
here is deprived of
their sight and tongue in order to never say anything about the
degrees of initiation in ECKANKAR?
Who here have found that spiritual decay sets in
immediately, affecting the health, material life and spiritual life,
and BRINGS
DEATH.
Why is it more accurate than you imagined Rich? And what exactly DID
you imagine? And finally what do YOU know about YOUR imagination?
@aloha.net Rich
"cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:41951428...@worldnet.att.net...
It's been apparent for a long time. Why he believes he can hide is like
much of his MO -> "Fear is the mind killer".
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Rich~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Sailing the CyberSea~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@aloha.net Rich
"simon" <leroyj...@hotmail.com> wrote
> "Rich" <rsmith @aloha.net> wrote
>
> > Given the sampling we see in this NG, these quotes seem more
accurate
> > than I had ever imagined when I first read them.
>
> Does this mean that you can name a few people who you have seen the
> WRATH OF ECK CRASH DOWN ON?
Yes.
> Who has Horrendous troubles here?
Horrendous can mean different things to different people, which is what
I have said about the meaning of all the so call 'fear quotes'. I see a
troubled SOC in those who have for years on end demonstrated anger,
blind attacks, biting the hand that fed them, a disconnect from reality,
unending apostate symptoms, cognitive dissonance, cutting off their nose
to spite their face, projecting their foibles as if they belong to all
Eckists, a narrow focus on negative thought, ect. You know who they are
by all the things that keep being pointed out to them. Do you think
they are untroubled in their thoughs and emotions?
> Who
> here is deprived of
> their sight and tongue in order to never say anything about the
> degrees of initiation in ECKANKAR?
> Who here have found that spiritual decay sets in
> immediately, affecting the health, material life and spiritual life,
> and BRINGS
> DEATH.
> Why is it more accurate than you imagined Rich? And what exactly DID
> you imagine?
I first imagined it to not be so literal. That said, it's actually only
a small percentage of those left. Most simply moved on to other things.
You certainly are troubled by these quotes. Why? What do you imagine
is the reality behind them? What karma do you think results from
attacking the positive spiritual flow. WHy won't you answer these
questions?
> And finally what do YOU know about YOUR imagination?
I know it is the vehicle thru which I create my sphere of experience.
That's why I chose optimism, positive thinking and detachment... when
I'm paying attention that is.;-) Those we are speaking about above, at
least in their expression in this NG, demonstrate the opposite choices.
cher
All the hallmarks of his arguments from years of posts are here in his
writing. Poor old gary.... He's really losing it more than usual.
Jadoo941
>Message-id: <41956D1C...@worldnet.att.net>
Scratch an ekist and look what you get....Cher and Rich. Now that's a teaching
I'd sign up for.....NOT!
simon
> I first imagined it to not be so literal. That said, it's actually only
> a small percentage of those left. Most simply moved on to other things.
> You certainly are troubled by these quotes. Why? What do you imagine
> is the reality behind them? What karma do you think results from
> attacking the positive spiritual flow. WHy won't you answer these
> questions?
>
> ` o
> |
> ~/|
> _/ |\
> / | \
> -/ | \
> _ /____|___\_
> (___________/
> Rich~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Sailing the CyberSea~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rich..did you ever read my direct attacks or opposition to the Mahanta
the Living Eck master as any kind of authority...In some of my post I
have literaly slamed the guy...As I understand it, is he not seen as
THE MOST POSITIVE SPIRITUAL FLOW?..The Karmic results of that is
freedom form an apparent cause outside of ones self....How do I
know..I did it Rich...Did you destroy the influence of the Mahanta for
yourself...No? Then you Rich DO NOT know the so called Karma
associated with taking such actions.. You only state what you have
read...In other words you have no direct experience in this
matter..You Rich appear afraid to go there..The Mahanta the Living Eck
master as an authority of ANY kind to me Rich is nonexistant.
Does that answer the question of what results from attacking the
positive spiritual flow...And perhaps Rich you may want to look at the
Imagination as EVERYTHING that one sees, feels, thinks, believes and
concents to as true conciously and subconsciuosly....and yes Rich,
EVERYTHING does include Karma. So guess what Rich, the "bad" stuff
that you mentioned that happens to those who diss The Mahanta and his
teachings will most certainly happen to YOU should you attempt it.
cher
Rich doesn't have to do this directly, he can stand back and learn as
you crash and burn. <chuckle> That's part of the learning process that
you guys always seem to forget about! I guess you never learned from the
mistakes of others, hey? Could be one of the things that lead to you
posting here in this manner. <smile>
sean
"simon" <leroyj...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7f347f96.04111...@posting.google.com...
> >
> > I first imagined it to not be so literal. That said, it's actually only
> > a small percentage of those left. Most simply moved on to other things.
> > You certainly are troubled by these quotes. Why? What do you imagine
> > is the reality behind them? What karma do you think results from
> > attacking the positive spiritual flow. WHy won't you answer these
> > questions?
> >
>
> > ` o
> > |
> > ~/|
> > _/ |\
> > / | \
> > -/ | \
> > _ /____|___\_
> > (___________/
> > Rich~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Sailing the CyberSea~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Rich..did you ever read my direct attacks or opposition to the Mahanta
> the Living Eck master as any kind of authority...In some of my post I
> have literaly slamed the guy...As I understand it, is he not seen as
> THE MOST POSITIVE SPIRITUAL FLOW?..
Then I believe you did not understand it fully.
> The Karmic results of that is
> freedom form an apparent cause outside of ones self....
"apparent" being the key word above.
How do I
> know..I did it Rich...Did you destroy the influence of the Mahanta for
> yourself...No?
Depends on what sense you are using the word, in the personalised sense or
in the sense of the Mahanta consciousness? IT cannot be destroyed. That's
like saying you destroyed the influence of God in the universe.
Then you Rich DO NOT know the so called Karma
> associated with taking such actions.. You only state what you have
> read...In other words you have no direct experience in this
> matter..You Rich appear afraid to go there..The Mahanta the Living Eck
> master as an authority of ANY kind to me Rich is nonexistant.
As it was nonexistent before you were an ECKist right? One has free will,
one can look to the Living ECK Master as an authority, as a blue meanie from
the Yellow Submarine, or as a spiritual guide, as a temporal teacher of
universal wisdom, as an author of books, or as anything you care to choose.
Your choice is your karma.
> Does that answer the question of what results from attacking the
> positive spiritual flow...
No
And perhaps Rich you may want to look at the
> Imagination as EVERYTHING that one sees, feels, thinks, believes and
> concents to as true conciously and subconsciuosly....and yes Rich,
> EVERYTHING does include Karma. So guess what Rich, the "bad" stuff
> that you mentioned that happens to those who diss The Mahanta and his
> teachings will most certainly happen to YOU should you attempt it.
So how's that working for you Simon?
simon
You know the mind of Rich and Rich knows the mind of others...and who
but the Mahanta can know the mind of others..so which one of you
actually knows?
Good thing you helped him out on this answer though. And who stands
by and watch you crash and burn..Did I hear you say that crash and
burn cant happen to you? Well, well...it happaned to your buddy Sri
Darwin Gross, the Mahanta the Living Eck master..13th or 14th
initiate..and you are a 4th..that makes you higher and more spiritual
than Darwin..hell..you might even be higher and more spiritual than
Rich and Harold? So what did you have to say about the keen insight
of Rich?
@aloha.net Rich
only
> > a small percentage of those left. Most simply moved on to other
things.
> > You certainly are troubled by these quotes. Why? What do you
imagine
> > is the reality behind them? What karma do you think results from
> > questions?
>
> Rich..did you ever read my direct attacks or opposition to the Mahanta
> the Living Eck master as any kind of authority...In some of my post I
> have literaly slamed the guy...
> As I understand it, is he not seen as
> THE MOST POSITIVE SPIRITUAL FLOW?..
You imagine a positive effect from slamming ECK Masters? If he was just
a regular human being would you expect positive karma from doing so?
> The Karmic results of that is
> freedom form an apparent cause outside of ones self....
You think that reacting to a cause outside yourself by slamming it
results in freedom from that outside cause?
> How do I
> know..I did it Rich...Did you destroy the influence of the Mahanta for
> yourself...No?
How would I destroy the consciousness through which all existence
manifests? What you believe you have destroyed is not the concept of
the Mahanta Consciousness that I hold.
> Then you Rich DO NOT know the so called Karma
> associated with taking such actions..You only state what you have
> read...In other words you have no direct experience in this
> matter..You Rich appear afraid to go there..
Even though you have "no direct experience in this matter", you are free
to assume what you imagine about me is true.
> The Mahanta the Living Eck
> master as an authority of ANY kind to me Rich is nonexistant.
If you say so... But then explain your reasoning for continuing to
attack a so called nonexistent authority?
> Does that answer the question of what results from attacking the
> positive spiritual flow...
No. You didn't answer it at all. Care to try again and stick to just
the simple question?
> And perhaps Rich you may want to look at the
> Imagination as EVERYTHING that one sees, feels, thinks, believes and
> concents to as true conciously and subconsciuosly....
Obviously you didn't pay attention to my previous post were I wrote
about that. You may want to go back and look at it since you snipped it
out of this reply.
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Rich~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Sailing the CyberSea~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> and yes Rich,
cher
Each of us knows our own.... something you only seem to notice when it's
your own being messed with. <smile> I don't know Rich's mind, but I do
know what learning from other peoples mistakes is about and I respect
that Rich is highly capable of observation. Two plus two. <smile> The
point of this is..... why are you so comfortable telling Rich what you
know he knows but you take such offense when I add what I did?
> Good thing you helped him out on this answer though. And who stands
> by and watch you crash and burn..Did I hear you say that crash and
> burn cant happen to you? Well, well...it happaned to your buddy Sri
> Darwin Gross, the Mahanta the Living Eck master..13th or 14th
> initiate..and you are a 4th..that makes you higher and more spiritual
> than Darwin..hell..you might even be higher and more spiritual than
> Rich and Harold? So what did you have to say about the keen insight
> of Rich?
Once again, one set of standards for you and another for everyone else.
As I reflect on your post to Rich and now this rant of yours against
me... it's clear to see I was smack on the penny where you're concerned.
<sigh> LOL...... What an inconsistent reactionary flake! :-/
T
Simon. the rebellious roar is needed to release the child of
innocence, almost like labour time. The matrix is needed, its a part
of the awakening of the lion. However, the lion is just an
intermediary, roaring birth to yourself. Once there are no more
enemies to fight, no more protection to seek,the lion seizes to be.
Its job is done.
Its great that you have killed your own concept of the Mahantaness. It
often takes such an act to release the power within , not very unlike
the compromiseless movement happening,touching this incredible
substance of existence. Strange paradox, isnt it ;) .."attacking the
positive spiritual flow"..people may feel there is a negative or a
positive spiritual flow.Those are our concepts and concepts have a
limited life-span. The spiritual flow of itself is...itself. Karma,
not karma..so what. Karma is what we make it to be, literally.
Rich et al are doing great jobs,maintaining the cytoplasm wherein
eckists grow.That job is needed. Your roaring strengthens their
funcion, a function they have chosen to have. Their actions are
helping you to release yourself. Anyway, these are simply views from
an unorthodox eckist, choosing to see Spirit moving in All and
everything. Time for a calumet ?
T
simon
Thank you again T, you certainly apppear to me as a different order of
Eckist and much of what you say I somehow understand.