Who is Darwin Gross, Mahanta the Living Eck Master #972
simon
is Evil in and of itself.
T
> Ironically, Darwin still plays "bad vibes"
> He continues to promote soul travel and the legacy of the ECK Master
> lineage under HIS tutelage and.
>
> Alf
>
> simon wrote:
>
> > What is Darwin now? You Eckist stay away from this question like it
> > is Evil in and of itself.
Not that it matters that much, Ive only met Darwin after he turned out
to be the "bad" guy, when he visited our home for a few days, and
during a seminar in Munich. His ugliness manifested to us as a laid
back guy,humorous,open, attentive and didnt take himself too
seriously. It was both funny and interesting to discuss spiritual
topics with him.He was a good listener,gave small caps comments and
showed nothing but decent human qualitites. Darwin gave me two
advices..trust yourself..and get a Mac :) I did and benefitted from
both. wish I had bought stocks back then ...
About his teaching abilities..I think he is as good as anybody else.
At least he showed in practical ways that he cared about his students.
I never looked to him as my "master" and he was perfectly ok with it.
He became a nobody in Eckankar, obviously they had their reasons.
Hiding money,dirty business, enjoying drinking and even beautiful
women etc. , as I have read. He must have been a terrible person in
deed, almost human. He slipped off the leaf of Eckankar and lost his
previous identity in the "dark pool". Maybe that was the best thing
that could happen to him.
Its a pity some eckists still get defensive and tensed as his name is
mentioned. If what I have experienced is representative of him, he is
no threat to anybody, well perhaps to some peoples eardrums, still, so
what. He isnt hiding anywhere on the inner to dupe anybody, only as a
fearful archetype in the subconscious of those who have chosen to make
him one.And it is anybodys "right to choose" ..
T
Michael Wallace
"simon" <leroyj...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7f347f96.04072...@posting.google.com...
> What is Darwin now? You Eckist stay away from this question like it
> is Evil in and of itself.
That is a patently silly statement, Simon.
I do not know what Darwin is now. It is hard enough knowing myself, let
alone someone else.
Love
Michael
Jadoo941
>That is a patently silly statement, Simon
Look at Phluffy Phuck Knuckle try to use a big word. Did you & Aunt B. look it
up all by your selves?
simon
Mahanta the Living Eck Master or not?
T
> Hey T, I have posted at least 3 questions on Darwin. Was he the
> Mahanta the Living Eck Master or not?
Id like to tell about a meditation I had as a neophyt on this path.
During that time I was eager to know more about the unconscious part
of my mind and how it possibly interlinked with an inner master, a
"mahanta" should you prefer that word. RT was my entrancepoint into E
in the first place, so addressing mind along that route, the image of
him, less Reynolds lookalike, emerged on the inner screen. I was shown
a triangle or pyramid that presented this part of the mind. There were
many images within the pyramid; an infant, a young boy,a pretty woman
( enjoyed that look ) and several other figures, not all of them a
pretty sight. On top, but inside the pyramid, a circle was.
The circle caught my attention, and watching it, it started to move
very quickly, almost like a water wheel distributing light to the
whole pyramid.Needless to say it was tremendously captivating. My
understanding was that this wheel nurtured those other images. Then
an image, soon another one, inside the circle emerged. Those were
various images of masters of the path. All of the images were pushed
to the circumference of that wheel and were thrown out the same way as
the initial light and disappeared. Soon after, only the light
remained inside the circle and it got stronger, pushing out to my
head, making it glow like a lightbulb. Oh yes, there was an emotional
reaction to it, tears were pouring out, however a wonderful silence
settled. To this day, this silence settled as my qualia on the
principle of the inner master. Interpreatate it as you like. IT is
as good and irrational as anybody elses. Care to share your take on it
as well ?
So, when you ask,is Darwin or any other person this presence .. The
answer would be no. I dont think anybody "is" a mahanta. Would Darwin
or any other person be useful as to mirror authenticity to a student
along a similar route ? Yes. If that makes him an ek-master, he is an
ek-master.
Why not seek him up in person and ask directly ? As far as I now he
still lives in Oak Grove, OR. Maybe you would find it interesting..
T
cher
cautionary tale.
arelurker
the work of traveling got into the way of his partying and
womanizing.... he assigned a bridge jumping wimp to take over some of
the workload who turned out to be a wolf in sheeps clothing.... and to
this day pretends like he God and
threatens all who disagree with him.
Lurk
simon
My question is was Darwin the Mahanta? Cher said he was LEM. Nice try
but that wasnt the question. I hope that this is a little less silly
than the first question.
cher
Ken
"arelurker" <arel...@charter.net> wrote ...
>
> He got to be LEM because Gail was beefing him, he drank had a good time,
> the work of traveling got into the way of his partying and
> womanizing.... he assigned a bridge jumping wimp to take over some of
> the workload who turned out to be a wolf in sheeps clothing.... and to
> this day pretends like he God and
> threatens all who disagree with him.
>
> Lurk
Do you enjoy disparaging people who you've never even met?
Bee
You do come across as a female .. A bitchy one at that however if this helps
you get out of your own problems then by al means ....
Love
B
"Jadoo941" <jado...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040730011519...@mb-m23.aol.com...
cher
Yep... or people he thinks will never know who he is! Interesting case
of cowardice, hey? <smile>
Jadoo941
No. Aren't you and Phluffy Phuck Knuckle fuck and dictionary buddies?
>You do come across as a female
Takes a bitch to know one?
.. A bitchy one at that however if this helps
>you get out of your own problems then by al means ....
Who's Al?
>Love
>Aunt B.
Jadoo941
Liar again. Darwin was always referred to in the eckankra literature of his day
as MAHANTA.
Why are you such a liar Chernobyl?
Do you think Paul will come back from the grave to annoint you next Lying Eck
Master?
simon
did. You can check the post if you dont believe me. Ok, so he was
not the Mahanta right? Of course thats what you just said.
Michael Wallace
vendettas, Bee... As you know.
I find it easier and simpler to slip them into the world of "Blocked Sender"
Love
Michael
"Bee" <waf...@rubarb.com> wrote in message
news:410a...@news1.veridas.net...
Jadoo941
Pussy.
Bee
When people keep leaping out impulsively to only get dissapointed .. when
real people do come along and support them, they don't start a fresh .. they
often stop the unity flow of comletion in emotional areas that actualy stunt
them ...
So they leave room silent sadness for those that are willing to come to the
party.
Asd case of not seeing what is front of them.. Too busy in that area
silently feeling their own "scorn of events" to see the welcomed obvious.
Love
bee
"Michael Wallace" <ph...@phurphy.com> wrote in message
news:410b26b7$1...@news1.veridas.net...
Bee
to be nice on bad days and understanding where I don't want to be on days ..
What makes these people so special ...:-)
l---
b--
"Bee" <waf...@rubarb.com> wrote in message
news:410b559d$1...@news1.veridas.net...
Ken
"cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote ...
He reminds me of the man who chopped down all of his neighbors trees,
just so he would have the biggest one.
Ken
"Jadoo941" <jado...@aol.com> wrote ...
>
> >I find it easier and simpler to slip them into the world of "Blocked Sender"
>
> Pussy.
Ah yes, Jadoooooo the intellectual.
cher
LOL.... yeah, and then sold wood to his neighbors at an inflated price!
<wink>
bluestar
met. Do you think of Mr. Klemp at night and go huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu I love
you? Mr. Klemp thinks of people like you Mr. Ken. He thinks what a stupid
sucker :)
_______________________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
<><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>
bluestar
Mr. Twitchell a coward shortie who chopped down all his neighbors beliefs
sho His would be the biggest one. You and Mr. Cher just can't win Mr. Ken.
Everything you whine about points back at your weakness for eckankar. :)
Skardicus
"cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:410A616E...@worldnet.att.net...
> He was the LEM. He got dizzy from the heights. He fell. End of story. A
> cautionary tale.
Since he was my first "Master", I seem to recall eckankar claimed he was a
Mahanta as well. If that's your story, Cher, does that mean eckankar lied
to those eckists (me included) for over 10 years?
So the tail grows a little longer - He was the LEM, eckankar claimed he was
a Mahanta, eckankar lied for over 10 years, he got dizzy and fell. End of
story?
That sucks to think that I was misled by my own (then) religion the entire
time I was in it.
Skardicus
bluestar
cher <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>He was the LEM. He got dizzy from the heights. He fell. End of story. A
>cautionary tale.
LOL! Mr. Klemp jumps off a bridge into icy water
Gets arrested at airport for disturing peace
Sent to mental ward! Lies to get out of there
Writes many books of nuttisms and is afraid of public
Tells eckists he will be mahanta for 1000 years!
Mr. mahanta Klemp hasn't fallen but Mr. mahanta Gross did? yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
uhhhhhhhhhh huuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhh lol!
Silly silly silly Silly silly silly people!
>
>simon wrote:
>>
>> Hey T, I have posted at least 3 questions on Darwin. Was he the
>> Mahanta the Living Eck Master or not?
Michael Wallace
I looked through a few of the posts this morning, and I wondered, "Haven't
people got anything better to do?"
Then I realised I did... And got to it...
Smooch
Michael
"Bee" <waf...@rubarb.com> wrote in message
news:410b...@news1.veridas.net...
Bee
Jadoo is really showing that she has a beaf with me:-) ..
I guess she is not happy with her home front so all imposed on someone >..
She is looking to upset us and then maybe she can get some sleep.
My guess all her dirty little kisses she sends to those she is infactuated
with are not replyiong anymore. They got real women in their lives<G> ..
This would indicate connections "cut" ... Even the dirty little stories she
used to hook those sesuous boys with are driven to an emty well <G>
Sad for those lust munger types.
Anyways .. I'd better check out the rest and conect with something more
useful ..
Doug seems to have it moving easily on here ..
Smooches and hugs to u my dear one ..
Love
Bee
P.S Did you hear the bomb drop??
"Michael Wallace" <ph...@phurphy.com> wrote in message
news:410c...@news1.veridas.net...
Al Radzik
insecure crybaby asskicked little fuckwit.
Alf
Michael Wallace
Testing new server
Why do Servers so often fail to serve?
As I just demonstrated to you dear Bee, the real technique of dealing with
Jadoo and Alf, et al is called the Magic of BLOCK SENDER.
That way it is all made soooo easy. So simple, far less complication, and no
fear of having to read through the pixel equivalent of sewerage.
Love
Michael
"Bee" <waf...@rubarb.com> wrote in message
news:410c...@news1.veridas.net...
cher
>
> "cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:410A616E...@worldnet.att.net...
> > He was the LEM. He got dizzy from the heights. He fell. End of story. A
> > cautionary tale.
>
> Since he was my first "Master", I seem to recall eckankar claimed he was a
> Mahanta as well. If that's your story, Cher, does that mean eckankar lied
> to those eckists (me included) for over 10 years?
Check the archives... it's been covered. He was introduced as the
Mahanta, and suddenly it spread like wildfire. I know long time ECKists
that still today wonder if BB was behind that fopah. Did it make it
true? You tell me.... What is the difference in your mind between the
LEM and the Mahanta? The ECKists I asked are still members of Eckankar,
so I doubt that your bias would factor their answers as acceptable.
> So the tail grows a little longer - He was the LEM, eckankar claimed he was
> a Mahanta, eckankar lied for over 10 years, he got dizzy and fell. End of
> story?
Eckankar claimed? Have you ever seen Eckankar walk and talk? What's it
look it? And if you feel this was a sham, how do you feel about the
board and Sri Harold straightening out this matter?
> That sucks to think that I was misled by my own (then) religion the entire
> time I was in it.
Well... they have a saying in the Navy..... life is hard and then you
die. It's sort of like the idea of "sucks to be you, hey?".
arelurker
Only those who claim they are God.
Lurk
arelurker
bluestar wrote:
>
> "Ken" <kah...@att.not> wrote:
> >
> >"cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote ...
> >>
> >> Ken wrote:
> >> >
> >> > "arelurker" <arel...@charter.net> wrote ...
> >> > >
> >> > > He got to be LEM because Gail was beefing him, he drank had a good
> time,
> >> > > the work of traveling got into the way of his partying and
> >> > > womanizing.... he assigned a bridge jumping wimp to take over some
> of
> >> > > the workload who turned out to be a wolf in sheeps clothing.... and
> to
> >> > > this day pretends like he God and
> >> > > threatens all who disagree with him.
> >> > >
> >> > > Lurk
> >> >
> >> > Do you enjoy disparaging people who you've never even met?
> >>
> >> Yep... or people he thinks will never know who he is! Interesting case
> >> of cowardice, hey? <smile>
> >
> >
> >He reminds me of the man who chopped down all of his neighbors trees,
> >just so he would have the biggest one.
>
> Mr. Twitchell a coward shortie who chopped down all his neighbors beliefs
> sho His would be the biggest one. You and Mr. Cher just can't win Mr. Ken.
> Everything you whine about points back at your weakness for eckankar. :)
Ain't that the truth.
Lurk
arelurker
cher wrote:
>
> Skardicus wrote:
> >
> > "cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:410A616E...@worldnet.att.net...
> > > He was the LEM. He got dizzy from the heights. He fell. End of story. A
> > > cautionary tale.
> >
> > Since he was my first "Master", I seem to recall eckankar claimed he was a
> > Mahanta as well. If that's your story, Cher, does that mean eckankar lied
> > to those eckists (me included) for over 10 years?
>
> Check the archives... it's been covered. He was introduced as the
> Mahanta, and suddenly it spread like wildfire. I know long time ECKists
> that still today wonder if BB was behind that fopah.
This is like arguing over the powers of comic book heros.
Paul made up this mahanta position and cultheads like Cher and Doug
believe it is something real. <lol>
Lurk
Michael Wallace
"Ken" <kah...@att.not> wrote in message
news:z2SOc.361269$Gx4.2...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Thanks to your resilience, Sri Ken... I get to read the informed comment <G>
Me go Ow... Not...
Love
Michael
>
>
>
>
Ken
"Michael Wallace" <yoyoe...@waffle.com.au> wrote ...
LOL You are welcome! This place is a wonder . . . Lord of the Flys
attitudes and 7th grade level debate tactics <G>
Skardicus
Skardicus
"Bee" <waf...@rubarb.com> wrote in message
news:410c...@news1.veridas.net...
Skardicus
Skardicus
"Michael Wallace" <yoyoe...@waffle.com.au> wrote in message
news:410cc20e$0$13085$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Michael Wallace
"Ken" <kah...@att.not> wrote in message
7th Grade?
Wow, I never realized the level of communication was so sophisticated!!
Reminds me of Lurk calling everyone a "Pussy" for a few months. And of
course, Anne Walton responding to questions with "Beep Beep" ... and so on.
Oh well
Love
Michael
>
Al Radzik
hosebeast girlfriend who writes shitty songs like "Nazi Girl".
Your whole aura is busted wide open and the yellow stinking fluid of
your existence is poisoning the atmosphere.
You aren't cute, smart, clever or poignant. You are a knuckle fucking
loosely woven birdbrained dipshit pile of kanga waste sniffing the butt
of an imaginary Eck master and trying desperately to not tip over lest
your putrid atrophied brain matter falls out of the hole in your head.
Love Alf
Jadoo941
>From: Al Radzik al_r...@yahoo.com
>Date: 8/3/2004 5:11 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <54529$411029c0$18e1a310$59...@allthenewsgroups.com>
>
>Cut the shit and lick the knife, Mikey. You are a loser with a psycho
>hosebeast girlfriend who writes shitty songs like "Nazi Girl".
>Your whole aura is busted wide open and the yellow stinking fluid of
>your existence is poisoning the atmosphere.
>You aren't cute, smart, clever or poignant. You are a knuckle fucking
>loosely woven birdbrained dipshit pile of kanga waste sniffing the butt
>of an imaginary Eck master and trying desperately to not tip over lest
>your putrid atrophied brain matter falls out of the hole in your head.
>
>Love Alf
Bravisimo! Maestro!
Jadoo941
>Hiya Mickle ..
>
>Jadoo is really showing that she has a beaf with me:-) ..
In like Beafeaters? Have one on me, you need one.
>I guess she is not happy with her home front so all imposed on someone >..
>
>She is looking to upset us and then maybe she can get some sleep.
Snap you got of it, you mean.
>My guess all her dirty little kisses she sends to those she is infactuated
>with are not replyiong anymore. They got real women in their lives<G> ..
>This would indicate connections "cut" ... Even the dirty little stories she
>used to hook those sesuous boys with are driven to an emty well <G>
??? Could somebody who speaks pidgin Australian interpet this for me?
>Sad for those lust munger types.
>
>Anyways .. I'd better check out the rest and conect with something more
>useful ..
>
>Doug seems to have it moving easily on here ..
>
>Smooches and hugs to u my dear one ..
>
>Love
>
>Bee
>P.S Did you hear the bomb drop??
That was the sound of your mind slamming shut.
Michael Wallace
No...
(More complex answers require more detailed requests <G>)
Love
Michael
"Skardicus" <neome...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:6KPPc.30654$Gk4....@fe1.texas.rr.com...
Michael Wallace
Now I got to laugh Scard ....
I seem to remember myself simply writing comments and some relevant info to
you in the earlier picture and it stood out like dogs's balls that you were
going out of your way to "not respond" to my posts :_)
I do recall I pointed it out that this was the case .. For some funny reason
you got " pufed" and a "puffed" in your response you eventually got around
to and was semingly asking me in not so many words was I in NEED for you to
respond ...<g>
Do I hear an echo of this ringing reversed??
Need some attention off Michael??/
Oh! I'll ask him to be nicer and give you some special attention<G>
I thought you were doing quite well with your unique way of display of which
you use as a technique in distracting what you want out of certain gals as
such <G>
Lost interest in that call??
Boys are on??? :-) Just kidding .... well .. sort of .. half and hALF ...
LOVE
BEE
"Skardicus" <neome...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:6KPPc.30654$Gk4....@fe1.texas.rr.com...
Skardicus
Australia?
And what the hell are you doing sharing your dog-balls experiences with the
group? That's just plain nasty.
To answer your question - you know how we detractors are - I was thinking of
new ways to "attack!" muhahahahah. There's no right answer. If you answer
right I shock you, if you answer wrong, I shock you.
In modern psychology it's called learned helplessness. I learned it - so
should you! ;)
Skardicus
"Michael Wallace" <yoyoe...@waffle.com.au> wrote in message
news:41117b77$0$30773$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Skardicus
conspiracies being.
Skardicus
"Michael Wallace" <yoyoe...@waffle.com.au> wrote in message
news:41117b77$0$30773$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Michael Wallace
am changing servers and have not yet configured separate Email Addresses.
Easier to set up different screen addy's when you have different addresses
to work through. I even tried a new newsgroup program, but it is a bit of a
pig to get to know...
But please... Take on the conspiracy as you see fit... i am going to have a
coffee.
Love
michael
"Skardicus" <neome...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:fyBQc.1885$rb2....@fe2.texas.rr.com...
Michael Wallace
Work on it and you can get to true alfesque standards...
Love
Michael
"Skardicus" <neome...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:JvBQc.1867$rb2...@fe2.texas.rr.com...
Al Radzik
Michael Wallace wrote:
> Bee and Michael live in the same house, Scardicus ..
Mow that's a scary thought. The Australian version a Dysfunctional Lucy
and Ricky.
"Wahhhhhh, I burnt your toast, Mikey"!
Michael replies
"Oh that's bad my little Bee. Now you have to stay home all day and read
the dictionary."
Waaahhhh!!!
Alf
cher
manifest one after they left? LOL..... the chicken or the egg? <grin>
sean
> Begs the question: did former members belong to a cult or did they
> manifest one after they left? LOL..... the chicken or the egg? <grin>
>
If it's the egg, then it's definitely lightly scrambled Cher!
LOL
Ken
"sean" <som...@microsoft.com> wrote ...
>
> "cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:41139559...@worldnet.att.net...
> > Begs the question: did former members belong to a cult or did they
> > manifest one after they left? LOL..... the chicken or the egg? <grin>
> >
>
> If it's the egg, then it's definitely lightly scrambled Cher!
>
> LOL
Over "uneasy"?
cher
sean
"Ken" <kah...@att.not> wrote in message
>
> "sean" <som...@microsoft.com> wrote ...
> >
> > "cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:41139559...@worldnet.att.net...
> > > Begs the question: did former members belong to a cult or did they
> > > manifest one after they left? LOL..... the chicken or the egg? <grin>
> > >
> >
> > If it's the egg, then it's definitely lightly scrambled Cher!
> >
> > LOL
>
>
> Over "uneasy"?
>
>
and pleasantly plucked?
sean
> <G> Enjoying unleashing the twisty side of things Scardicus??
>
> Work on it and you can get to true alfesque standards...
>
> Love
>
> Michael
>
I didn't really read the above few posts did I?
Obviously, I must be at a.r.e. <VBG>
Jadoo941
Sean's one of those schnooks who'll wake up from his nap to discover he died
three years ago.
sean
Part of me did. And I'm still working at unbinding all the left over mummy
cloth. ;-))
It's all good.
mahav...@yahoo.com
> What is Darwin now? You Eckist stay away from this question like it
> is Evil in and of itself.
The bottom-line selling point of Eckankar has always been: "Eckankar
works."
This fail-safe is always trotted out when talk turns to Paul's
plagiarism, lies, incredible prophecies that never came true, threats
of Eck Master literature, Rebezar Tarzs, and everything else in the
wild bin of Eckankar. "Eckakar works" they say. "I just know it
does. I have Knowingness of Soul."
But how can Eckankar "work" when the last Mahanta Living Eck Master,
for whatever reason, loses all his Eckankar initiations? That's just
what happened to Darwin Gross.
How can Eckankar be said to really "work" in the longterm, in a
meaningful, lasting way, when Darwin Gross, the guy who was The
Eckankar Success Story, loses ALL his Eckankar Initiations and even
gets kicked out of Eckankar?
How can anyone have any real faith that Eckankar "works" for them,
when they KNOW that, for whatever reason, the last guy to get Eckankar
Mastership lost it all in just a few years?
Darwin fell from Eckankar, it's a fact, so really, all we KNOW about
Eckankar is that
Eckankar DOESN'T really work.
And not only did Eckankar not work for the higher exponent and Master
of Eckankar. Hundreds of Higher Initiates of Eckankar have left the
Eck path. These folks were, according to Eckankar, self-realized Soul
Plane attainees who had really made it past the realms of mind and
matter. Yet they left Eckankar! Why would they leave?
If any Eckankar Higher Initiate leaves Eckankar -- for WHATEVER reason
-- what does that say about Eckankar "working"?
And again, the guy who according to Eckankar really really really made
it spiritually -- Sri Darwin Gross -- he left Eckankar too! Lost all
his initiations. Said "Eckankar treated me like shit." Has no
picture on Eck center walls.
You have to wonder why any Eckist still feels that "Eckankar works."
Are they just very naive? Have they shut themselves off so completely
from the history of Eckankar that they are in denial?
It seems clear that Eckankar is just another "stepping stone" in life,
like High School or aerobics. But it's even more clear that Eckankar
is not the highest path to God or any of the other grand claims made
in Eckankar literature. Darwin Gross is the proof of that.
I'm sure there will be Eckists out there who have no trouble at all
picking apart Darwin, the former 14th initiate. I'm betting these
will be the same Eckists who never dare to offer any criticism of Sri
Harold Klemp.
cher
<smile> If a master can fall from grace, then this means that the
spiritual live must rewon each day.
mahav...@yahoo.com
of, back into mind and matter, and lose all his Eck initiations, it
means his initiations never counted for anything. It means Eckankar
doesn't work.
What hope does any Eck chela have if the so-called Master can fall so
far, so fast?
cher <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:<4115315E...@worldnet.att.net>...
cher
mental acuity. I'd rather have a path that keeps me on my toes then one
that gives you something for nothing. If you snooze you lose, maha......
sean
> of, back into mind and matter, and does not lose all his Eck initiations,
it
> means his initiations counted for something. It means Eckankar works.
If another 100 fall from grace, the above still holds true. Or does it?
maybe the premise was what is wrong?
If a man goes to a accupuncturist for treatment, and is healed, then
accupuncture works. If another man seeks helpo from an accupuncturist and is
not healed, then obviously accupunture does not work.
The problem is obviously accupuncture, right?
LogicLesson 101
<mahav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9d5f56f7.04080...@posting.google.com...
Skardicus
came first the cult or the cultic follower?" The cult. Someone had to lead
before you can follow.
And you do have a valid point - while doing the eck-dance the mind does not
know the body is in a cult. It's only after the exodus that you can see the
building more clearly - the one marked KULT in giant red neon letters on the
outside that isn't visible from the inside.
Thus giving new meaning to "Take it on the inner" <grin>.
Skardicus Outside
P.S. Does anyone like the group Staind? "Outside" is one of my favorite
songs by them.
"cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:41139559...@worldnet.att.net...
Skardicus
though you might qualify for a thang.
Skardicus
"cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:4113B384...@worldnet.att.net...
Skardicus
outlook reader today because the narcissisist I am wanted her to at least
have the ability to read my wonderful posts if she so chose and I used my
same email address though I gave her a different nick (I doubt she'll post).
Skardicus
"Michael Wallace" <yoyoe...@waffle.com.au> wrote in message
news:4112eea2$0$25458$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Skardicus
philosophy so that you can reconcile the crash and burn Mahanta.
Skardicus
"cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:4115315E...@worldnet.att.net...
Skardicus
spiritual leader and a path I can trust.
Skardicus
"cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:411598C3...@worldnet.att.net...
cher
>
> Only desperate people beg, Cher. So lets get your question straight "What
> came first the cult or the cultic follower?" The cult. Someone had to lead
> before you can follow.
Well now that we have established your trait of attack.... if people
aren't seeking something to follow, then why would they join when one
comes along? It's a major question in sociology and psychology right
now. What are they following, why, who, how... you get the gist. <wink>
> And you do have a valid point - while doing the eck-dance the mind does not
> know the body is in a cult. It's only after the exodus that you can see the
> building more clearly - the one marked KULT in giant red neon letters on the
> outside that isn't visible from the inside.
Ah... so you're traversing the initiations of detractor quickly I see.
<smile> Didn't take you long to buy into the holy order of anticult
dogma. So which came first? The anticult propoganda or the disgruntled
former members seeking weapons?
In case you hadn't noticed... the word cult as a shock factor has become
passe of late. You'll need a new cattle prod to get that doctrine across
the street.
> Thus giving new meaning to "Take it on the inner" <grin>.
Seems to work for those of the vanity ilk. Just look at ford if you need
a good example of that. <smile>
cher
laughing. <smiling>
cher
LOL......
Skardicus
"sean" <som...@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:9bCdneF9XIp...@inspired.net.au...
> If an Eckankar Master doesn't fall from the grace he's supposedly a master
>> of, back into mind and matter, and does not lose all his Eck
>> initiations,
> it
>> means his initiations counted for something. It means Eckankar works.
>
> If another 100 fall from grace, the above still holds true. Or does it?
> maybe the premise was what is wrong?
>
> If a man goes to a accupuncturist for treatment, and is healed, then
> accupuncture works.
If an eckist follows Darwin for 10 years loyally and eckankar works for
them, then Darwin and Eckankar work. If Darwin then gets demoted, stripped
of initiations and cast out, then the order to burn his books is given - did
Darwin and eckankar really work for 10 years or did I just pretend that it
did and now that I've turned my back on my spiritual master, my dream
master, my inner initiator - now it's working? All the love and light and
life I enjoyed so much for that 10 years wasn't real? It seemed real to
me - but why are all those eckists glaring at me when I talk about it?
So, lets get this straight please. Darwin - a human who embodied the
Mahanta consciousness, who led eckankar from it's originator, Paul to it's
Terminator, Harry decided that he'd rather be an egotistical, money grubbing
xylophone player on tour than to manifest any desire he ever had through
spirit, tuzashottoma energy and the most powerful consciousness revealed to
humans besides (perhaps) the silent ones?
This fallen angel passed the Rod of Power to Harry. If he is so fallen then
the uniterrupted line of Living eck masters just got interrupted didn't it.
Was he fallen before he passed the rod on? If so, you follow a super
delusional kook. Or, if Darji's falling occur before the Rod was passed,
then you may follow the dreaded Black Magician.
The problem is belief is reality. If Harry introduced his dog at the next
World Wide and told you he passed the Rod on to Scruffy - some of you would
follow Scruffy because you believed that Harry a) could do this and b) did
do it.
Darwin is a glaring glitch in the eckankar logic.
Skardicus
cher
won't be thinking for yourself at all anymore. Just log on to
yahoogroups and rediscover the way the world works. When you regurgitate
it here they'll give you adulation. Is that the kick? That thing you
missed from the path? Accolades? <smile> You've got the rhetoric
memorized so quickly. Now if only you had the courage to check out some
of the anti cult sites that sharon has listed in her links section. Ask
her about her favorites. AFF comes to mind. ReFocus is the one that
colleen is professionally associated with. Take a look at the source
code to the information you're parroting. You're a smart guy.... you can
figure it out for yourself. Or maybe the social group is just too
tempting... <smile> Who knows.... :-D
cher
perfection. The files of the anticult sites are filled with data on
every group available to mankind. Have fun! Oh... and a hint... you
won't find any mainstream christian groups listed. Not because they
don't fit the profile but because they paid to put these sites up in the
first place. <wink>
Now as to your affiliation with one who blames the path for the failing
of an individual? Well.. I'll leave that up to you to figure out. You'll
find the exact details right next to the data on Jesus' missing years.
<wink>
cher
>
> Good that you grasp the basics of logic, so lets apply your construct...
>
> "sean" <som...@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:9bCdneF9XIp...@inspired.net.au...
> > If an Eckankar Master doesn't fall from the grace he's supposedly a master
> >> of, back into mind and matter, and does not lose all his Eck
> >> initiations,
> > it
> >> means his initiations counted for something. It means Eckankar works.
> >
> > If another 100 fall from grace, the above still holds true. Or does it?
> > maybe the premise was what is wrong?
> >
> > If a man goes to a accupuncturist for treatment, and is healed, then
> > accupuncture works.
>
> If an eckist follows Darwin for 10 years loyally and eckankar works for
> them, then Darwin and Eckankar work. If Darwin then gets demoted, stripped
> of initiations and cast out, then the order to burn his books is given - did
> Darwin and eckankar really work for 10 years or did I just pretend that it
> did and now that I've turned my back on my spiritual master, my dream
> master, my inner initiator - now it's working? All the love and light and
> life I enjoyed so much for that 10 years wasn't real? It seemed real to
> me - but why are all those eckists glaring at me when I talk about it?
So youj're telling us here that Darwin was the only master you had
experiences with? You didn't meet Harji in the inner worlds at all?
Odd.... Okay, so what about other Masters then? Cause a great many
people saw what was happening long before it all hit the fan.
> So, lets get this straight please. Darwin - a human who embodied the
> Mahanta consciousness, who led eckankar from it's originator, Paul to it's
> Terminator, Harry decided that he'd rather be an egotistical, money grubbing
> xylophone player on tour than to manifest any desire he ever had through
> spirit, tuzashottoma energy and the most powerful consciousness revealed to
> humans besides (perhaps) the silent ones?
You do realize of course that there's a human element involved here? How
much do you know about Darwin and his story anyway? Because I noticed
that you're talking about logic here but you've factored out the human
being involved in this whole drama. Is there some magical thinking
available that cleanses this whole story from the dirty details of one
who beings to take a header down that slippery slope? Did you miss
Paul's messages about this very thing happening? Or his messages to
those who thought they should be the next LEM? Where were you all that
time?
> This fallen angel passed the Rod of Power to Harry. If he is so fallen then
> the uniterrupted line of Living eck masters just got interrupted didn't it.
> Was he fallen before he passed the rod on? If so, you follow a super
> delusional kook. Or, if Darji's falling occur before the Rod was passed,
> then you may follow the dreaded Black Magician.
Check the time line here. Paul stated clearly that the next LEM would be
temporary. And he stated that the one following would take the rod of
power. (Illuminated Way Letters Jan '71, pg 230) He made that very
clear, but it's been whitewashed for a long time. <sigh> Now.... check
and see where Darwins' end of LEM and the passing of the rod of power to
Harold shows us any true break in the teachings or between these two
men? It wasn't until after Darwin stepped aside, that the majority of
the problems began. Why? I couldn't venture to answer for either of
these men, but take a look in human nature... what happens when people
have to relinquish power. It's a gut wrenching test of Soul. And here we
are today. <smile>
> The problem is belief is reality. If Harry introduced his dog at the next
> World Wide and told you he passed the Rod on to Scruffy - some of you would
> follow Scruffy because you believed that Harry a) could do this and b) did
> do it.
Wow... that's just rude and ugly. <sigh> Is that what logic looks like
in your new little world? <shudder>
> Darwin is a glaring glitch in the eckankar logic.
Only if you need him to be. It's your rhetoric... but that doesn't mean
it's about what truly happened. Enjoy the wonderful world of opinionated
gossips! Just keep in mind that you do't get brownie points on this
group for regurgitating dogma. Sharon has a role of foil stars that
might interest you though.
mahav...@yahoo.com
initiations and get kicked out of the very religion he was chief
exponent and expert....how can anyone -- particularly those of a lower
initiation level, that is, everyone -- say that Eckankar really works
in the longterm?
Did the last LEM really transcend mind and matter to become a "master"
of the eck force? If he did, how did he lose everything to fall from
grace?
What did Darwin Gross actually do to make Harold remove ALL of
Darwin's initiations? What did Darwin do, exactly, that other Eckists
did not do? Did he have a bad attitude? About what, or about who,
exactly? What was "bad" about Darwin's attitude?
Did Darwin steal money from Eckankar? Let's say for the sake of
argument that he did. Why would that action cause Darwin to lose ALL
his Eck initiations? Does money have something to do with keeping in
contact with the Eck force?
Was Darwin acting out sexually with women, and was that the cause of
his losing ALL his initiations? Someone here just wrote that, in
Eckankar, "there is nothing wrong with sex." So that can't be the
reason Darwin lost all his eck initiations, can it?
Did Darwin not show "respect" to Harold? That's what Harold's letter
says. Was this demonstrable lack of respect to Harold the chief
reason Darwin had ALL his initiations removed by Harold? Is not
showing "respect" to Harold somehow linked to keeping all one's
spiritual initiations to God?
There are all pertinent questions to ask, all in tandem with the chief
question every Eckist should ask about Eckankar:
If the last Mahanta Living Eck Master lost ALL his Eck initiations,
can anyone say that Eckankar really works?
What good is getting Master status in Eckankar if your successor takes
it, and ALL your initiations, away from you?
cher <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:<411598C3...@worldnet.att.net>...
mahav...@yahoo.com
Freedom from the bonds of the lower worlds, mind and matter, karma,
rebirth -- getting to the Soul plane beyond duality, and beyond that
ultimately to MASTER status in Eckankar -- this is the fundamental
purpose of Eckankar. Real Mastery and security beyond the beguiling
attractions and traps of mind and matter.
Yet,
The last Living Eck Master DID fall from grace, to lose ALL his Eck
initiations.
Darwin's fall shows us that Eckankar, in the long term, just doesn't
work.
"sean" <som...@microsoft.com> wrote in message news:<9bCdneF9XIp...@inspired.net.au>...
sean
Not true scardi, you are the glaring glitch in the logic dept. Logic is
logic. There isn't an eckankar variation you know.
For a start you missed the import of my comments and have rattled off a post
that is basically silly and illogical.
Have a another go mate. Maybe read my comments again to see what I was
saying. Look for the word "premise" btw.
Also let's a have a go at overcoming the girly exaggerations. For a start,
no one has or will front up with a dog. DOH!
Without going thru every falsely based assumption you seem to have lept to,
from my experience with people over the years, when Darwin was in the death
throes, many folks ALREADY felt that a) eckankar was working for them and b)
that darwin wasn't working for them. Later when Darwin was removed and
people publically notified, it came as no surprise to some. Sort of shoots
your first line premise down in flames.
Contrary to your generally expressed feelings about the intelligence level,
awareness and resourcefulness of ECKists past and present, quite a lot of
people knew something was going on there before any public info was released
about darwin's falling from grace.
AS is so common here on a.r.e., you basically do not know, but that does not
stop you from projecting the ideas you come up with onto others, when
actually there is a far greater variation and possibilities than you have
imagined.
That Darwin did what he did, and that Harold and the Board did what they
did, is simply not an issue for me. Why? Because it all makes perfect sense,
at least to me, given the circumstances as it was then.
Now, please don't forget that if anyone here disagrees and draws other
conclusions, well you are welcome. I am not bothered by that at all.
Obviously it's a problem for you, otherwise you wouldn't be here so many
years after the event. ;-))
Cheers Sean
sean
still basing their judgements on little rumour items like Darwin was only a
2nd Initiate when Paulji ntranslated. Which is simply NOT accurate. But the
false information fits their judgements and level of understanding better,
so therefore it must be true.
oh well. Not my problem. LOL
"Skardicus" <neome...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:RfsRc.7778$KZ2....@fe2.texas.rr.com...
sean
>
Hi Joe,
It was a reflective analogy in logic. Not a perfect one, but one offered as
a tool to assist your thinking processes regarding the argument you were
making which is logically flawed imho.
So ok, I'll take another approach.
Let's say person A joins and does not do the practices or read the
discourses as recommended and does not find success. Person B joins does do
the practices and doesn't find success. and person C joins and does the
practices and does find success.
During this time, Darwin leaves the teaching. What has darwin got to do with
the ECKists, some who found success with the teachings and some who didn't?
> Freedom from the bonds of the lower worlds, mind and matter, karma,
> rebirth -- getting to the Soul plane beyond duality, and beyond that
> ultimately to MASTER status in Eckankar -- this is the fundamental
> purpose of Eckankar. Real Mastery and security beyond the beguiling
> attractions and traps of mind and matter.
>
The fundamental purpose of ECKANKAR, is to present the teachings of ECK to
the public. What people do with that is a personal choice and journey.
> Yet,
>
> The last Living Eck Master DID fall from grace, to lose ALL his Eck
> initiations.
>
Not so. Again your facts/assumptions are inaccurate. Darwin was an ECK
master on a slippery slope at the time, not the Living ECK master who was in
fact Sri Harold.
> Darwin's fall shows us that Eckankar, in the long term, just doesn't
> work.
>
Not so, Darwins fall shows us that that Darwin didn't work it out. What
happened to darwin, what happened to you, what happened to skardicus, what
happened to Lurk has absolutely nothing to do with me or the ECK teachings,
and everything to do with you and your own choices.
But I don't expect you to see that or accept it. Which is fine by me.
btw does accupunture work? If it does, and Leaf seems to think it does, why
doesn't everyone in the USA go to an accupuncturist instead of a MD?
Think logically if you can in answering the questions above for yourself. If
I joined up as a Buddhist and left 10 years later, does that mean the Dalai
Lama is a fake and the teachings are crap? ;-))
Cheers Sean
sean
> If I needed religion or something to follow today, I'd rather have a
> spiritual leader and a path I can trust.
>
> Skardicus
>
Truth be known, your personal inability to trust both people and life in
general is the real issue and not the good/bad/indifferent of religion.
Seeking out the flaws in other people and religion feeds your need to be
right and to justify your choice of not being able to trust. Which is
understandable and not uncommon.
The first thing to break this little muhdra is relearning to trust yourself
Skardi DESPITE the obvious mistakes/innappropriate choices of the past and
the obvious and serious flaws in the world and people around you/us. imho.
At least that appoach worked for me, and I have seen it work in others too.
We always have a choice, to be cause or to be effect. Simply looking for and
judging a religion you can trust is being effect. [not that you are looking,
i understand you have no interest there]
Cheers Sean
sean
> initiations and get kicked out of the very religion he was chief
> exponent and expert....how can anyone -- particularly those of a lower
> initiation level, that is, everyone -- say that Eckankar really works
> in the longterm?
>
Easy it goes like this ...... The teachings of Eckankar really work in the
longterm, but it's up to you to discover how to apply them in your own life.
> Did the last LEM really transcend mind and matter to become a "master"
> of the eck force? If he did, how did he lose everything to fall from
> grace?
>
Poor choices, and probably a dose of Vanity.
> What did Darwin Gross actually do to make Harold remove ALL of
> Darwin's initiations? What did Darwin do, exactly, that other Eckists
> did not do? Did he have a bad attitude? About what, or about who,
> exactly? What was "bad" about Darwin's attitude?
>
> Did Darwin steal money from Eckankar? Let's say for the sake of
> argument that he did. Why would that action cause Darwin to lose ALL
> his Eck initiations? Does money have something to do with keeping in
> contact with the Eck force?
>
> Was Darwin acting out sexually with women, and was that the cause of
> his losing ALL his initiations? Someone here just wrote that, in
> Eckankar, "there is nothing wrong with sex." So that can't be the
> reason Darwin lost all his eck initiations, can it?
>
> Did Darwin not show "respect" to Harold? That's what Harold's letter
> says. Was this demonstrable lack of respect to Harold the chief
> reason Darwin had ALL his initiations removed by Harold? Is not
> showing "respect" to Harold somehow linked to keeping all one's
> spiritual initiations to God?
>
> There are all pertinent questions to ask, all in tandem with the chief
> question every Eckist should ask about Eckankar:
>
Only waffle and spin Joe. You do not want to hear reasonabl;e answers. Been
there and done that.
> If the last Mahanta Living Eck Master lost ALL his Eck initiations,
> can anyone say that Eckankar really works?
>
Darwin was not the Mahanta, and had already relinguished his title of the
Living ECK master 2 years before he left. Your information is not accurate.
bte Eckankar rreally works.
> What good is getting Master status in Eckankar if your successor takes
> it, and ALL your initiations, away from you?
>
I see you don't have a good grasp of the teachings and the initiations.
That's ok, that's probably why you left in the first place? Did you expect
to reach master status yourself joe? ;-))
Cheers Sean
sean
> And this shows what an idiot looks like in public. Those who know me are
> laughing. <smiling>
>
I wonder if Skardi realises that not all french people live in France all
their lives?
But I love it when I see my children are self-confident, even when they are
wrong.
smile
sean
> Only desperate people beg, Cher. So lets get your question straight "What
> came first the cult or the cultic follower?" The cult. Someone had to
lead
> before you can follow.
>
ru serious skardi?
Do you really believe that?
If what you say is true, then if for example Scientology never ever existed,
that all those people who have been scientoligists and who have had bad
expereinces with them would have lived their lives and NOT gone thru the
same experiences in some other context where they were still abused, got
into litigation, or were harrassed/threatened on the phone.
Is this how you think it all works? Remove the bad guys and all the victims
live a life of bliss or something?
I'm unsure of your thinking here, and how you see your statement above
extrapolating into the real world over time, which is why i am asking these
questions. I f i am wrong in my example by all means explain it to me.
> And you do have a valid point - while doing the eck-dance the mind does
not
> know the body is in a cult. It's only after the exodus that you can see
the
> building more clearly - the one marked KULT in giant red neon letters on
the
> outside that isn't visible from the inside.
>
There is no ONLY skardi. Comments like "it must only be this or that" limits
life, or rather our perception of it. But if one's awareness of the
possibilities is limited then it follows that one's life and view of life is
also limited to the same degree.
That's why Paul used terms like the expansion of consciousness. If the
picture of Eckankar, of the world, that one saw when they joined is fuller
larger more accurate more real when they leave, then it follows that the
teaching has worked to some degree doesn't it?
If Sharon left Eckankar with a passion to serve others significantly greater
than how she lived her life B.E. has not the experience of the teaching
worked to some degree?
Sometimes we can find perfection even in the imperfections. It depends what
you are looking for I think.
btw if you were to go downstairs and get your wrench, then remove your SUV
sterring wheel, then you could say my car only goes forwards and backwards.
You've mislaid your sterring wheel mate. ;-)
Cheers Sean
cher
is available at these groups and sites. <smile> Any rumor will do....
any little rumor at all. LOL....
cher
> > And this shows what an idiot looks like in public. Those who know me are
> > laughing. <smiling>
> >
>
> I wonder if Skardi realises that not all french people live in France all
> their lives?
Apparently not! LOL..... guess he found the right group to hang out
with... ;-)
> But I love it when I see my children are self-confident, even when they are
> wrong.
Hey! It works for me most days. LOL......
cher
LOL.... beautiful! Just beautiful!
sean
Thanks glad you enjoyed. It took me ages to do, but the last bit just fell
into place out of the blue. ;-))
sean
> Well that does it.... proof that the wealth of information on Eckankar
> is available at these groups and sites. <smile> Any rumor will do....
> any little rumor at all. LOL....
>
Elementary my dear cher, it's elementary!
Sherlockius :)
cher
That's the best kind. Not much in the way of spontaneity around here
lately.
cher
>
> "cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:411782BF...@worldnet.att.net...
> > Well that does it.... proof that the wealth of information on Eckankar
> > is available at these groups and sites. <smile> Any rumor will do....
> > any little rumor at all. LOL....
> >
>
> Elementary my dear cher, it's elementary!
>
> Sherlockius :)
Cool! You even know the correct form! <smiling>
sean
> sean wrote:
> >
> > "cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:411782BF...@worldnet.att.net...
> > > Well that does it.... proof that the wealth of information on Eckankar
> > > is available at these groups and sites. <smile> Any rumor will do....
> > > any little rumor at all. LOL....
> > >
> >
> > Elementary my dear cher, it's elementary!
> >
> > Sherlockius :)
>
> Cool! You even know the correct form! <smiling>
>
I'm not dilly!! :)
Oogie
> leroyj...@hotmail.com (simon) wrote in message news:<7f347f96.04072...@posting.google.com>...
>
>>What is Darwin now? You Eckist stay away from this question like it
>>is Evil in and of itself.
>
>
> The bottom-line selling point of Eckankar has always been: "Eckankar
> works."
>
Yeah, like "Microsoft Works"
Oogie
alea...@gmail.com
you RE CAUGHT IN BELIEF BINDERS. WAKE UP LITTLE DOGGIE!!e was the LEM. He got dizzy from the heights. He fell. End of story. A
> cautionary tale.
>
> simon wrote:
> >
> > Hey T, I have posted at least 3 questions on Darwin. Was he the
> > Mahanta the Living Eck Master or not?
sign...@gmail.com
If my poor driving wrecks my brand new BMW, does this impugn a 100 years of German mechanical engineering?
Henosis Sage
Comes from having a head full to the brim with false beliefs and an inabilit to "drive your own mind" without wrecking it and your body eventually along with it.
Fact is BMW is far more popular than Eckankar will ever be.
Fact is BMW makes products that are *fit for purpose*.
Eckankar does not provide anything that is *fit for purpose*.
Every time someone like you Rob opens your mouth on the subject you prove beyond all doubt how useless Eckankar is to anyone and everyone.