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1984-09-12 Deposition of Peter Skelskey - GROSS v ECKANKAR
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Peetee Aitchei
Sep 30, 2014, 11:56:45 PM9/30/14
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1984-09-12 Deposition of Peter Skelskey
Background information
1983-08-07 FALSE ACCUSATIONS MADE AGAINST DARWIN GROSS
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/ihCJto3V_Mc/XE5p6-n3lfoJ
KLEMP ~ ECKANKAR versus Sri DARWIN GROSS
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/mPJuV0Up3MI/e7uTfPSxGKAJ
--- ---
US District Court - District of Oregon
GROSS vs ECKANKAR - Civil #84-228
Mr AXELROD questions Peter Skelskey UNDER OATH
Quoting selected extracts - [my comments in brackets]
[page 17]
A. Why would I?
Q. You may Want to find out what contractual relationships
people had.
A. This, the board was not used in this way, David. The board
WAS REALLY BEING EXECUTED, after my viewing of it, as a RUBBER
STAMP of what Darwin Gross wanted to do and had been that way --
Q What personal knowledge do you know of the board's action
and proceedings prior to your first board meeting in January,
1982?
A. Prior to 1982. I know of none of those actions.
Q. Okay. You're talking from a later time before?
A. I'm talking from August, 1983 on, yes.
[note: should have said from January, 1982 on, obviously!]
Q. WHEN did you learn that the defendant was building the
structure in Salishan?
A. I heard about it at one of the board meetings.
Q. Do you know WHEN that was?
A. The best I can recall, it would be the middle of
1982 or late 1982. I'm not -- Darwin, right at the end of one of the
board meetings, brought out the plans and he had already
purchased the land or was going to.
Q. Were these the plans that were prepared by [Trustee] Mr. Engel?
A. I think they were sketches prior to Mr. Engel's involvement,
then I believe Mr. Engel [long term on ECKANKAR Board of Trustees]
became the architect of record.
[ie Hired as Primary Supervisor of the building project in Oregon.]
[...]
[page 28]
Q. Any time.
A. AFTER AUGUST 7th, WE INVESTIGATED IT.
Q. So that was, was that one of the reasons that caused you
to vote for removing Darwin Gross as an officer [Board Trustee]
and employee [President CEO]?
A. Mr. Axelrod, the ONLY reason I voted for removing Darwin
Gross was because the Living ECK Master said it's time to
TERMINATE HIM. He's the leader of our religion.
Q. Okay. So you didn't make ANY determination as to what
conduct or lack of conduct Darwin Gross HAD ENGAGED IN in
coming up with that decision? It was strictly a question of
whether or not [...] Mr. KLEMP WANTED HIM THERE OR NOT?
A. He was terminated because the Living ECK Master WANTED
HIM TERMINATED. Did I, do we, as a board, investigate the
other things that he was doing, of course we did.
Q. Well were those --- but you're saying those were NOT A FACTOR?
A. The ULTIMATE DECISION to terminate Darwin as President and
officer of ECKANKAR was HAROLD KLEMP'S DECISION.
[ Note prior comment/criticism of Darwin Gross by Skelskey pg17:
"The board WAS REALLY BEING EXECUTED, after my viewing of it,
as a RUBBER STAMP of what Darwin Gross wanted to do and had
been that way --" ]
[...]
[page 60]
Q. Did you talk with other trustees about that?
A. About this particular - [Resolutions for the next days Board meeting]
Q. About your reasons in preparing these responses?
A. No, I did not.
Mr. ESLER: He didn't prepare them.
THE WITNESS: I did not prepare them. I did not talk to anybody else about them.
MR. ESLER: Mr Axelrod, you to understand that
the corporation is required to answer interrogatories.
MR AXELROD: I understand.
MR ESLER: That doesn't include polling or having
each one of the directors answer a separate set. On the
other hand, each one of these directors was present at the
same meeting regarding Mr Gross.
MR AXELROD: I understand. That doesn't mean that
everyone had the SAME REASON at that meeting!
MR ESLER: The night before his termination?
MR. AXELROD : Q. Let's talk about the meeting the night before
the termination, then do you recall that meeting?
THE WITNESS: A. What meeting?
Q. The meeting that took place at Ricky's Hyatt?
A. Oh, the caucus?
Q. Yes
A. I remember it.
Q. How was that organized?
A. We had arrived for the board meeting and we were, had
[page 61]
agreed on the phone that we would get together and caucus
concerning the issues at hand of what the management was doing
unbeknownst to the Board of Trustees. With our authorization,
Harold had consulted an attorney at our specific request and
the attorney was going to give us his overall view plus
Harold was going to make a decision and he wanted our input,
so I believe we met around 4:30 or 5:00 for a caucus. We
met there and Harold Klemp and CHRIS MORRIS went over
the items of the meeting and the resolutions, which you had
mentioned before that. I was asked at that meeting if I
would step in as Chairman of the Board by Mr . Klemp, by the
Living ECK Master, that he asked "Peter, would you step in and
stand up and pass these resolutions out and execute them at
the meeting?" I said yes. I said "Harold, is this the only
way it can be done? Is that what YOU WANT to do?" He said
"Peter, this is what I Want to do. This is how it HAS TO BE
DONE" and I said I accept that, that conclusion, and all of the
other Trustees [only those present] agreed.
[ NOTE: Chris Morris had recently resigned/terminated as the
Office Business Manager as part of D.G. ongoing restructure of
and improvements needed by the office Staff. Morris then
officially resigned as Trustee, and Treasurer of ECKANKAR on
1983-06-12 - only two months before Aug 83 coup.
Chris Morris was a key informer/gossip to Joan Cross & Klemp,
where upon DG's termination Morris secured a special 45 day
x $2,500 Consultant Contract from Klemp, which continued
much longer. Morris, therefore, directly benefited from
Darwin's removal. ]
Q. See, you didn't review all these various things that have
been listed in the interrogatory answers, is that correct?
A. These specific?
Q, Yeah. The whole laundry list? I understand you may have
reviewed some of them, but --
A. We knew about most of them. We were INFORMED [told]
what [others CLAIMED had ] happened, if I can go back to
Holland, the meeting in Holland, which Darwin wanted to
participate and Harold wanted to participate. We met in
Holland on Saturday night about 11:00 the two of them came
together, the meeting went this way,
[...]
[page 70]
A. [...] meeting, that had occurred, between myself and Harold
and he.
[where "he" is not Gross]
MR. AXELROD: Q. Who would have knowledge of that?
THE WITNESS: A. The people that were with him.
Q. Yeah. That's what I want to know.
MR. ESLER: Were those penitent communications or were
those just gossip --
MR. HARDIMAN: Or facts?
MR. ESLER: -- or facts?
THE WITNESS: They were FACTS. I BELIEVE [?] what the
people told me.
MR. AXELROD: Q. As far as you KNOW, they were
hearsay, but they may be true, they may NOT. I just want
to know who they were because I understand this is an issue.
THE WITNESS: A. It's not an issue with me or the board
or Harold Klemp why he was terminated. He was termi-
ated for SPIRITUAL REASONS by, Harold Klemp.
Q. But there's also ---
MR. ESLER: Physical evidence, spiritual reasons.
MR. AXELROD: Q. Technical in the litigation was that the
CONTENTION that there were these problems, and I am
trying to find out what THE FACTS ARE that relate to that
contention.
THE WITNESS: A. There have been people who are in clergy,
clergy of ECKANKAR, who have come up to me and have
told me on occasions where he has been out drinking
with them. I do not --
Q. Is alcohol a prohibited substance under the teachings of
ECK?
[ end of extracts from Skelskey deposition text ]
COMMENTS:
Twitchell drank Champagne didn't he?
Drinking a beer does NOT align with CONTENTIONS of being a
Black magician OR false claims Gross HAD STOLEN $2.6 Million,
stole Real Estate, stole other property and more from ECKANKAR!
Regarding the RUBBER STAMP contentions.
From January 1982 to July 1983 Mr Peter Skelskey was present at
ALL ECKANKAR Board Meetings and Voted YES on every Motion.
No one held a gun at his head, nor forced him to Vote in any
particular way. He could ask any question he wished to ask.
From October 1981 to July 1983 Mr Harold Klemp was present at
ALL ECKANKAR Board Meetings and Voted YES on every Motion,
except one! Klemp freely and willingly RESIGNED his position as
President and CEO of ECKANKAR in April 1982.
No one held a gun at his head, nor forced him to Vote in any
particular way. He could ask any question he wished to ask.
At the CAUCUS meeting of invitation only Trustees, plus ESLER,
plus Chris Morris, it was clear that Klemp demanded the full
agreement of all present. The Lawyer drew up the Resolutions
to be passed the next day at the Board Meeting.
Mr Skelskey herewith, under OATH, states unequivocally that at
both the Caucus and the Board Meeting of the August 7th, 1983,
that that was essentially in fact nothing more than a RUBBER
STAMP to fulfill the demands made by Klemp.
No full or fair investigation was carried in regards to the gossip,
or claims made, or the "Priest penitent communications"
claimed to have been made against Darwin Gross PRIOR to
his Termination as an Officer and Employee of ECKANKAR's
Board of Trustees.
Before his Termination, no opportunity was EVER afforded to
Mr Gross that would enable him to defend himself against these
accusations by UNKNOWN UNIDENTIFIED PEOPLE. Neither was
Mr Gross afforded the opportunity to address the whole Board
of Trustees and put his side of the story, or to correct and prove
ANY claims made against him were in fact in error, completely
misunderstood, or totally false and just idle gossip and lies.
This was an assault on his Human Rights, on his Rights under
US Law, the US Constitution, and was then and now morally and
ethically an unsustainable and unconscionable act of the most
egregious kind imaginable by a so-called Spiritual Master. One
supposedly the leader of a teaching based on Truth, Freedom,
Charity/Love, and Wisdom.
Even Post-Aug 1983 no full and fair investigation was done
regarding claims made against Gross, and no opportunity was
ever afforded him to respond to such allegations to Klemp
directly nor to the full Board of Trustees, nor to the High
Initiates who were told of all manner of falsehoods and
claimed illegalities carried out by Gross in Oct 1983 WW
seminar.
No Police Report or Complaint of criminal behavior by Gross,
and no Corporation Authority complaint was ever filed by
anyone connected with ECKANKAR that claimed ANY illegality
by Mr Gross at any time he was an Official and Employee of
ECKANKAR.
Not once. Not ever.
In fact the complete opposite occurred where every possible
legal step was taken to STOP Mr Gross from being to speak
with or contact anyone connected with the Board and the
Management in the ECK Office post-Aug 1983 ongoing.
Active steps including legal means were also taken to block
any attempt by Mr Gross to present his side of this story to
the entire Eckankar Membership from August 1983 until he
died in 2008.
This is the facts. The facts come from verifiable evidence.
This is 100% non-fiction and is not an Agatha Christie
novel, not an Eckankar publication, not a talk by Klemp,
nor is it a book by Brad Steiger or DOUG MARMAN.
More later ... much more to come.
Background information
1983-08-07 FALSE ACCUSATIONS MADE AGAINST DARWIN GROSS
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/ihCJto3V_Mc/XE5p6-n3lfoJ
KLEMP ~ ECKANKAR versus Sri DARWIN GROSS
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/mPJuV0Up3MI/e7uTfPSxGKAJ
--- ---
US District Court - District of Oregon
GROSS vs ECKANKAR - Civil #84-228
Mr AXELROD questions Peter Skelskey UNDER OATH
Quoting selected extracts - [my comments in brackets]
[page 17]
A. Why would I?
Q. You may Want to find out what contractual relationships
people had.
A. This, the board was not used in this way, David. The board
WAS REALLY BEING EXECUTED, after my viewing of it, as a RUBBER
STAMP of what Darwin Gross wanted to do and had been that way --
Q What personal knowledge do you know of the board's action
and proceedings prior to your first board meeting in January,
1982?
A. Prior to 1982. I know of none of those actions.
Q. Okay. You're talking from a later time before?
A. I'm talking from August, 1983 on, yes.
[note: should have said from January, 1982 on, obviously!]
Q. WHEN did you learn that the defendant was building the
structure in Salishan?
A. I heard about it at one of the board meetings.
Q. Do you know WHEN that was?
A. The best I can recall, it would be the middle of
1982 or late 1982. I'm not -- Darwin, right at the end of one of the
board meetings, brought out the plans and he had already
purchased the land or was going to.
Q. Were these the plans that were prepared by [Trustee] Mr. Engel?
A. I think they were sketches prior to Mr. Engel's involvement,
then I believe Mr. Engel [long term on ECKANKAR Board of Trustees]
became the architect of record.
[ie Hired as Primary Supervisor of the building project in Oregon.]
[...]
[page 28]
Q. Any time.
A. AFTER AUGUST 7th, WE INVESTIGATED IT.
Q. So that was, was that one of the reasons that caused you
to vote for removing Darwin Gross as an officer [Board Trustee]
and employee [President CEO]?
A. Mr. Axelrod, the ONLY reason I voted for removing Darwin
Gross was because the Living ECK Master said it's time to
TERMINATE HIM. He's the leader of our religion.
Q. Okay. So you didn't make ANY determination as to what
conduct or lack of conduct Darwin Gross HAD ENGAGED IN in
coming up with that decision? It was strictly a question of
whether or not [...] Mr. KLEMP WANTED HIM THERE OR NOT?
A. He was terminated because the Living ECK Master WANTED
HIM TERMINATED. Did I, do we, as a board, investigate the
other things that he was doing, of course we did.
Q. Well were those --- but you're saying those were NOT A FACTOR?
A. The ULTIMATE DECISION to terminate Darwin as President and
officer of ECKANKAR was HAROLD KLEMP'S DECISION.
[ Note prior comment/criticism of Darwin Gross by Skelskey pg17:
"The board WAS REALLY BEING EXECUTED, after my viewing of it,
as a RUBBER STAMP of what Darwin Gross wanted to do and had
been that way --" ]
[...]
[page 60]
Q. Did you talk with other trustees about that?
A. About this particular - [Resolutions for the next days Board meeting]
Q. About your reasons in preparing these responses?
A. No, I did not.
Mr. ESLER: He didn't prepare them.
THE WITNESS: I did not prepare them. I did not talk to anybody else about them.
MR. ESLER: Mr Axelrod, you to understand that
the corporation is required to answer interrogatories.
MR AXELROD: I understand.
MR ESLER: That doesn't include polling or having
each one of the directors answer a separate set. On the
other hand, each one of these directors was present at the
same meeting regarding Mr Gross.
MR AXELROD: I understand. That doesn't mean that
everyone had the SAME REASON at that meeting!
MR ESLER: The night before his termination?
MR. AXELROD : Q. Let's talk about the meeting the night before
the termination, then do you recall that meeting?
THE WITNESS: A. What meeting?
Q. The meeting that took place at Ricky's Hyatt?
A. Oh, the caucus?
Q. Yes
A. I remember it.
Q. How was that organized?
A. We had arrived for the board meeting and we were, had
[page 61]
agreed on the phone that we would get together and caucus
concerning the issues at hand of what the management was doing
unbeknownst to the Board of Trustees. With our authorization,
Harold had consulted an attorney at our specific request and
the attorney was going to give us his overall view plus
Harold was going to make a decision and he wanted our input,
so I believe we met around 4:30 or 5:00 for a caucus. We
met there and Harold Klemp and CHRIS MORRIS went over
the items of the meeting and the resolutions, which you had
mentioned before that. I was asked at that meeting if I
would step in as Chairman of the Board by Mr . Klemp, by the
Living ECK Master, that he asked "Peter, would you step in and
stand up and pass these resolutions out and execute them at
the meeting?" I said yes. I said "Harold, is this the only
way it can be done? Is that what YOU WANT to do?" He said
"Peter, this is what I Want to do. This is how it HAS TO BE
DONE" and I said I accept that, that conclusion, and all of the
other Trustees [only those present] agreed.
[ NOTE: Chris Morris had recently resigned/terminated as the
Office Business Manager as part of D.G. ongoing restructure of
and improvements needed by the office Staff. Morris then
officially resigned as Trustee, and Treasurer of ECKANKAR on
1983-06-12 - only two months before Aug 83 coup.
Chris Morris was a key informer/gossip to Joan Cross & Klemp,
where upon DG's termination Morris secured a special 45 day
x $2,500 Consultant Contract from Klemp, which continued
much longer. Morris, therefore, directly benefited from
Darwin's removal. ]
Q. See, you didn't review all these various things that have
been listed in the interrogatory answers, is that correct?
A. These specific?
Q, Yeah. The whole laundry list? I understand you may have
reviewed some of them, but --
A. We knew about most of them. We were INFORMED [told]
what [others CLAIMED had ] happened, if I can go back to
Holland, the meeting in Holland, which Darwin wanted to
participate and Harold wanted to participate. We met in
Holland on Saturday night about 11:00 the two of them came
together, the meeting went this way,
[...]
[page 70]
A. [...] meeting, that had occurred, between myself and Harold
and he.
[where "he" is not Gross]
MR. AXELROD: Q. Who would have knowledge of that?
THE WITNESS: A. The people that were with him.
Q. Yeah. That's what I want to know.
MR. ESLER: Were those penitent communications or were
those just gossip --
MR. HARDIMAN: Or facts?
MR. ESLER: -- or facts?
THE WITNESS: They were FACTS. I BELIEVE [?] what the
people told me.
MR. AXELROD: Q. As far as you KNOW, they were
hearsay, but they may be true, they may NOT. I just want
to know who they were because I understand this is an issue.
THE WITNESS: A. It's not an issue with me or the board
or Harold Klemp why he was terminated. He was termi-
ated for SPIRITUAL REASONS by, Harold Klemp.
Q. But there's also ---
MR. ESLER: Physical evidence, spiritual reasons.
MR. AXELROD: Q. Technical in the litigation was that the
CONTENTION that there were these problems, and I am
trying to find out what THE FACTS ARE that relate to that
contention.
THE WITNESS: A. There have been people who are in clergy,
clergy of ECKANKAR, who have come up to me and have
told me on occasions where he has been out drinking
with them. I do not --
Q. Is alcohol a prohibited substance under the teachings of
ECK?
[ end of extracts from Skelskey deposition text ]
COMMENTS:
Twitchell drank Champagne didn't he?
Drinking a beer does NOT align with CONTENTIONS of being a
Black magician OR false claims Gross HAD STOLEN $2.6 Million,
stole Real Estate, stole other property and more from ECKANKAR!
Regarding the RUBBER STAMP contentions.
From January 1982 to July 1983 Mr Peter Skelskey was present at
ALL ECKANKAR Board Meetings and Voted YES on every Motion.
No one held a gun at his head, nor forced him to Vote in any
particular way. He could ask any question he wished to ask.
From October 1981 to July 1983 Mr Harold Klemp was present at
ALL ECKANKAR Board Meetings and Voted YES on every Motion,
except one! Klemp freely and willingly RESIGNED his position as
President and CEO of ECKANKAR in April 1982.
No one held a gun at his head, nor forced him to Vote in any
particular way. He could ask any question he wished to ask.
At the CAUCUS meeting of invitation only Trustees, plus ESLER,
plus Chris Morris, it was clear that Klemp demanded the full
agreement of all present. The Lawyer drew up the Resolutions
to be passed the next day at the Board Meeting.
Mr Skelskey herewith, under OATH, states unequivocally that at
both the Caucus and the Board Meeting of the August 7th, 1983,
that that was essentially in fact nothing more than a RUBBER
STAMP to fulfill the demands made by Klemp.
No full or fair investigation was carried in regards to the gossip,
or claims made, or the "Priest penitent communications"
claimed to have been made against Darwin Gross PRIOR to
his Termination as an Officer and Employee of ECKANKAR's
Board of Trustees.
Before his Termination, no opportunity was EVER afforded to
Mr Gross that would enable him to defend himself against these
accusations by UNKNOWN UNIDENTIFIED PEOPLE. Neither was
Mr Gross afforded the opportunity to address the whole Board
of Trustees and put his side of the story, or to correct and prove
ANY claims made against him were in fact in error, completely
misunderstood, or totally false and just idle gossip and lies.
This was an assault on his Human Rights, on his Rights under
US Law, the US Constitution, and was then and now morally and
ethically an unsustainable and unconscionable act of the most
egregious kind imaginable by a so-called Spiritual Master. One
supposedly the leader of a teaching based on Truth, Freedom,
Charity/Love, and Wisdom.
Even Post-Aug 1983 no full and fair investigation was done
regarding claims made against Gross, and no opportunity was
ever afforded him to respond to such allegations to Klemp
directly nor to the full Board of Trustees, nor to the High
Initiates who were told of all manner of falsehoods and
claimed illegalities carried out by Gross in Oct 1983 WW
seminar.
No Police Report or Complaint of criminal behavior by Gross,
and no Corporation Authority complaint was ever filed by
anyone connected with ECKANKAR that claimed ANY illegality
by Mr Gross at any time he was an Official and Employee of
ECKANKAR.
Not once. Not ever.
In fact the complete opposite occurred where every possible
legal step was taken to STOP Mr Gross from being to speak
with or contact anyone connected with the Board and the
Management in the ECK Office post-Aug 1983 ongoing.
Active steps including legal means were also taken to block
any attempt by Mr Gross to present his side of this story to
the entire Eckankar Membership from August 1983 until he
died in 2008.
This is the facts. The facts come from verifiable evidence.
This is 100% non-fiction and is not an Agatha Christie
novel, not an Eckankar publication, not a talk by Klemp,
nor is it a book by Brad Steiger or DOUG MARMAN.
More later ... much more to come.
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