Implications of Contact with the Nine Silent Ones: More Ford Johnson Quotes
FuzyWahz
Implications of Contact with the Nine Silent Ones
Perhaps the most striking and important parts of Graham's journal are
his encounters with the Nine Silent Ones. Without this phase in his
spiritual unfolding, the inner worlds and the masters of Paul's
universe would not have been revealed so dramatically. Chungchok's
revelations about Paul's demise, the fabrication of the Rod of Eck
Power, and Paul's invention of the concept of the Mahanta, strike at
the very heart of Eckankar doctrine.
Equally remarkable in his account of the Nine Silent Ones is the
dramatic elevation in content and tone. I was curious as to whether
the revelations about Eckankar, its diminished power, its mistaken
focus on temple building, and its movement towards a doctrinal
religious organization, reflected what Graham felt about Eckankar or
whether they were independent observations of a highly evolved soul in
the personage of Chungchok. I asked Graham if he had heard about these
issues before and also if he shared these opinions at the time he
transcribed Chungchok's observations. The issue was whether these
inner
experiences merely reflected information and opinions that he already
held, albeit from an ostensibly unimpeachable source.
He responded that he did in fact have questions and doubts. He had
perceived a vast difference between the inner master and the outer
master. This was evidenced most strikingly in the thin content of
Harold's writings, in contrast to the wisdom expressed by Wah Z in the
inner. Yet, Graham stressed that what came through from Chungchok was
new and for the most part outside his knowledge of Eckankar. He was of
the view that Harold would recognize what was being said by the Nine
Silent Ones. Graham had been told that Harold was informed, on the
inner, of the contents of his journal, and that it would be
forthcoming.
The revelations of Chungchok, transcribed by Graham, were monumental
in their implications for Eckankar. For this reason alone, his journal
had to be brought to the Master's attention. As a High Initiate in
Eckankar who had been contacted for assistance to deliver this journal
to Harold, it was my responsibility to see that the Mahanta received
it.
End.
So,
"Chungchok's revelations about Paul's demise, the fabrication of the
Rod of Eck Power, and Paul's invention of the concept of the Mahanta,
strike at the very heart of Eckankar doctrine.....He had perceived a
vast difference between the inner master and the outer master. This
was evidenced most strikingly in the thin content of Harold's
writings, in contrast to the wisdom expressed by Wah Z in the inner."
These statements carry the crux of Ford's & Graham's contentions about
eckankar in its present state. Paul got whacked because he wasn't
doing it right, there is no Rod of Power (so it would be hard for
Graham to make a grab for it, don't you think?), and Paul invented out
of whole cloth the concept of the Mahanta.
Add to that Harold's lack of leadership, charisma, intelligence, or
any other recognizable talent save that as a warmed over greeting card
writer, and you have an organization ripe for total reformation, if
not elimination.
FWWWH?
Garland C. Peck
understand there can only be one. Do they fight for the prize. Will it
be televised
"FuzyWahz" <Fuzy...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:f461a11d.03080...@posting.google.com...
Ken
"FuzyWahz" <Fuzy...@earthlink.net> wrote ...
Funny isn't it, how these are the exact same issues that have been laid
out right here on this n.g. for years. And all of these things are pretty
subjective, except for one.
The Mahanta certainly wasn't created out of "whole cloth" by Paul.
Similar themes have been taught for tens of centuries by other paths,
most notably the Sufis. It looks like Ford got *at least* that one wrong.
>
> Add to that Harold's lack of leadership, charisma, intelligence, or
> any other recognizable talent save that as a warmed over greeting card
> writer, and you have an organization ripe for total reformation, if
> not elimination.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you've been saying forever. But so far, it's only
in your dreams ... <G>.
Siva Ri
not add up here. It may be because I don't have all the facts. But
from what I've seen so far, Ford is being self-contradictory here. On
the one hand, Ford is saying that the Eck Masters are the fictional
creations of Twitchell. On the other hand, he seems to be saying that
the Nine Silent Ones are real, and relying on Graham's inner
experiences with Nine Silent Ones as a key foundation of his problems
with Eckankar. In this case, I'd have to say Ford is choosing what is
real and what isn't to suit his thesis. In any case, if the Eck
Masters are Paul's creation, so are the Nine Silent Ones. So Ford
seems to be saying Paul was honest and correct about the existence of
the Silent Ones, but dishonest and wrong on the existence of the Eck
Masters. What do you think, FuzyWahz? From your reading is Ford trying
to have it both ways?
>
I have shown in my postings on The Eck-Vidya Plagiarisms where Paul
may well have gotten his seed idea about the Nine Silent Ones, but the
terminology and specific role they play in Eckankar seems to be Paul's
invention. If Ford is saying the Nine Silent Ones are real, and the
Eck Masters are fictional, I think he's caught in a major
self-contradiction. Inner experiences with either are subject to
Ford's explanation that they are creations of the Higher Self.
FuzyWahz
I don't know if he's trying to have it both ways. I do think his
motive is to give eckists and others a viable alternative to eckankar
shorn of all the mythomania. With himself at the helm, of course! So,
no mythomania but the megolamania stays intact. <G> As an aside, I
didn't even bother reading his thoughts about how spiritual life
should be done. You see dear Eckists, I for one could care less what
people believe in as long as there is no premeditated strategy for
deceiving sincere spiritual seekers. Ford goes into this in the
following quote.
For the most part Ford simply reports Graham's experiences, but then
again he uses the statements of what he calls fictional masters as
evidence against Paul and Harold. I think he is trying to take his
readers through the same revelatory process that happened to him. So,
you could say in the beginning of the book he was a True Believer
until Harold's almost violent reaction to him and Graham starts him
down the path of Disbeliever. Part of his journey is discovering the
falsity of Vairagi Masters and Silent ones.
Here is an extensive quote that explains Ford's motivation and basis:
Page 86, Confessions of a God Seeker
CONFESSIONS OF A GOD SEEKER
Sacabi explained further that Sri Harold would be informed that the
time had come for him to step down. He then instructed Graham to send
his journal, with all its revelatory content, to Harold, who had
already been informed on the inner that the materials were coming.
When Graham inquired about Eckankar as a religion, he was told:
ECKANKAR is not, was not, and never will be a religion. ECKANKAR is a
Spiritual philosophy in the way of the Eternal Light and Sound of
GOD.3
Yaubl Sacabi's statement is consistent with but falls short of the
even more restrictive standards that Paul had proposed for Eckankar,
which was to be run as a for-profit business.4 Indeed, Paul was quite
insistent that Eckankar should not be a religion or even a tax-exempt
group.5 Yet, he later established Eckankar's legal status as a
non-profit, tax-exempt church. This status has been continued by
Darwin and Harold, in spite of Paul's earlier warnings about the
dangers of organizing spiritual works as churches, orders, or
institutions. .
In the afternoon of September 15, 2001 Graham was told:
Because of the falling power of Sri Harold, He cannot hand over the
Rod of ECK Power to you, it has been taken from Him. 6
Later, Graham was informed that the ceremonial transfer of the Rod of
Eck Power might not take place on the outer. Seeking additional
insight on this point, Graham was told that the Rod of Eck Power had
been removed from Harold and that, in response, Harold turned Eckankar
into a full-fledged religious institution to ensure its surviva1 and
his own. Graham also learned that, if the succession of the new
Mahanta were acknowledged, Eckankar could be returned to its original
purpose, that of a spiritual path not a doctrinaire religion.
In addition to these significant revelations, Graham had many
spiritual encounters with Chungchok, the spokesman for the Nine Silent
Ones. Paul wrote extensively on these beings and their spiritual
roles:
"These strange beings are responsible for the running of the planes of
God on a mechanical basis. They come and go like the wind to carry
out the will and wishes of the Lord of the universes. The Silent Ones
are in command of the great Sound wave, in the worlds of the
universes. They have immense powers and great wisdom to carry out the
assignments of the SUGMAD and, of course, unlimited freedom. Outside
the SUGMAD, these Silent Ones are the most powerful beings in all the
worlds…."
Given the importance of the Nine Silent Ones in Eckankar's hierarchy,
Chungchok's statements take on immense importance. Indeed, they go to
the very validity of Eckankar. Chungchok explained to Graham that both
the Temples of Golden Wisdom and the Rod of Eck power existed only in
Paul's writings. Graham was deeply troubled by this. How did it fit
with his other experiences? Sensing this, Chungchok elaborated:
Before you ask me, I know what your next question is going to be, and
I have my answer here for you: you were given the experiences with the
so-called Rod of ECK Power, because it was written into the teachings.
If we had laid all this on you from the start, your balance would have
gone, hence, as true to spirituality under a true teacher, it was
given a step at a time to unfold your ability to accept it all, for
there is a lot to have to accept. 8
These revelations and Harold's reaction to the journal led to my
investigation into Eckankar. Were there untruths and deceptions that
somehow I had failed to see? If so, had I unwittingly become part of
an ongoing deception that had mixed the seeker's sincere quest for
spiritual enlightenment with a competing, though unrevealed, plan for
spiritual control and power? I had to know for myself and for the many
Eckists whom I have known. I owed it to them to uncover the truth
about the path to God that we had chosen and faithfully served with
both love and steadfastness.
I began with in-depth research. I read the books that were the basis
for Paul's many writings. I examined the texts discovered by David
Lane to have been plagiarized by Paul. I explored the Ruhani Satsang,
founded by Kirpal Singh, which Paul had followed for almost ten years
before founding Eckankar. I researched the works of his spiritual
master during these years and those of the Radhasoami Beas line of
masters. I searched other spiritual paths that claimed to be a direct
path to God. I hunted down every resource possible to learn the true
sources of the Eckankar teaching.
My research also led me to investigate the legal framework of Eckankar
and the litigation in which it had been involved. I puzzled over the
comments of Paul's wife, Gail, to understand why she rejected Eckankar
and wanted no more association with it. Reading an explosive
correspondence between Harold and Darwin, I tried to understand how
one Living Eck Master could legally,. financially, and spiritually
destroy his predecessor. I talked to high initiates, some who had
reached the Seventh and Eighth Initiations, to understand why they
left the teaching. I visited Paul's hometown (Paducah, Kentucky) and
pored over the Twitchell Collection, which Paul had aided in
establishing by assiduously sending news clipping, pictures, and other
papers to his hometown library. I interviewed friends and
acquaintances who had known Paul prior to his creation of Eckankar. I
even sought Paul's military record and requested other official
documents to determine the truth of his background.
At times, the research was painful. I often felt deceived, even
gullible. If you are a member of Eckankar, you might also feel that
way. If you are not an Eckist, I hope these revelations will cause you
to look into whatever path or religion you are following, for what
this research has found in Eckankar was also found to exist in other
religions and spiritual teachings. The only difference was that the
dust of history had "covered the latter's origins and evolution more
completely than the mere decades that protected Eckankar from its
historical record.
Exploration of this more recent trail leading to the truth behind
Eckankar will be challenging at times. This is how we grow
Spiritually. This is the only way that a loving, vulnerable, and
beautiful soul can see and know Eckankar for what it really is. Only
then, can the God-seeker decide how he may wish to continue his
journey to God-Realization.
Standards of Religious and Spiritual Scrutiny....
While writing this book, several friends asked me why I would risk my
standing as a well-known speaker and Seventh Initiate in Eckankar. The
answer was quite simple. Standing is unimportant if it is not of the
truth. The God-seeker looks to truth as the infallible guide to high
states of spiritual awareness. But truth is often difficult to discern
above the cacophony of prattle posing as true spiritual teachings. In
examining the words and actions of Eckankar leaders, we are apt to
judge them by ordinary standards. In Eckankar, the spiritual leader
considers his position to represent the highest state of spiritual
consciousness that can be expressed in the physical world. Indeed,
Paul said:
Each Living ECK Master has served as the Mahanta, which is God made
flesh on earth. Therefore, we look to the Mahanta, for he is the
representative of SUGMAD [God] in our midst today.9
This description is the official definition for the spiritual leader
of Eckankar. It is reinforced throughout the Eck works, especially the
Shariyaf-Ki-Sugmad, the Bible of the Eckists. It has never been
modified or reduced by Paul Twitchell, Darwin Gross, or Harold Klemp
--- Eckankar's line of spiritual masters.
A spiritual master of this stature should be held to standards that
transcend those of average people. For if he were allowed their
foibles, then what would there be to recommend the higher spiritual
life to a God-seeker? What would be the point, if the "representative
of God on earth" could not overcome the simple temptations and faults
that mortals grapple with and often conquer? Certainly honesty,
morality, and ethics are to be expected of such a spiritual master. As
a parent, corporate president, and teacher of spiritual subjects,
ethical standards for the good of the whole are essential to me. Lying
and distortion are simply unacceptable when a seeker is looking to you
for truth. Thus, every Eckist is justified in expecting the Mahanta,
the Living Eck Master, "the representative of Sugmad [God] in our
midst today," to live by these simple standards, if not substantially
higher ones.
When a person comes to a spiritual teaching, listens to the words of
its spiritual leader, and reads its sacred texts, he is in a
vulnerable state: he might well be too trusting. Many who come to
Eckankar do not question it. They believe that they are being told the
truth and that a highly developed spiritual leader would not deceive
them. All teachers carry great responsibility. A relationship of trust
exists akin to that of parent to child: How much more sacrosanct,
then, is the relationship between a spiritual leader and a student,
especially if the former purports to be the manifestation of God? The
student is apt to believe what he is told, especially if facile
answers are readily available to assuage his concerns.
End Quote.
Hey, I think I may have wrote that! I'll have to check my Astral
notes...
Fuzy Wahz Wasn't, Was He?
cher
I'm inclined to believe that any of the detractors could've written his
book! Perhaps it is just an astral project afterall? Hmmmm? Sounds about
right, from where I'm sitting!!!!
Ken
Cher wrote...
>
> You know gary... after the various quotes of Ford's book on this group
> I'm inclined to believe that any of the detractors could've written his
> book! Perhaps it is just an astral project afterall? Hmmmm? Sounds about
> right, from where I'm sitting!!!!
I'm starting to believe that Ford simply took the rantings and ideas of
the detractors from this ng and re-wrote them. What Fuzzy shared below
sounds almost word-for-word.
Maybe if Ford gets popular, someone will have to write a book detailing
how everything he wrote is derived from a.r.e.
cher
>
> Cher wrote...
> >
> > You know gary... after the various quotes of Ford's book on this group
> > I'm inclined to believe that any of the detractors could've written his
> > book! Perhaps it is just an astral project afterall? Hmmmm? Sounds about
> > right, from where I'm sitting!!!!
>
> I'm starting to believe that Ford simply took the rantings and ideas of
> the detractors from this ng and re-wrote them. What Fuzzy shared below
> sounds almost word-for-word.
>
> Maybe if Ford gets popular, someone will have to write a book detailing
> how everything he wrote is derived from a.r.e.
LOL..... the birth place of the bitch and moan sect! I love it! <wink>
Michael
waffle machine this fellow is. I loved this bit:
> > In addition to these significant revelations, Graham had many
> > spiritual encounters with Chungchok, the spokesman for the Nine Silent
> > Ones. Paul wrote extensively on these beings and their spiritual
> > roles:
Hey... Even the Silent Ones now have a SPOKESPERSON! Chungchok... Obviously,
this is because these folk can't speak for themselves <VBG>
Is anyone actually taking this crap seriously? Amazing waffle... "My
research showed... " yadda yadda yadda... His research really showed he had
read David Lane, read the detractors view, and NOT read Doug's book.
Maybe he married Colleen? <G>
Love
Michael
"Ken" <kah...@attachments.att.net> wrote in message
news:6MVXa.86170$3o3.5...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > worlds.."
neuralsurfer
> I just flicked through a little of Ford has written... Man oh man... What a
> waffle machine this fellow is. I loved this bit:
>
> > > In addition to these significant revelations, Graham had many
> > > spiritual encounters with Chungchok, the spokesman for the Nine Silent
> > > Ones. Paul wrote extensively on these beings and their spiritual
> > > roles:
>
> Hey... Even the Silent Ones now have a SPOKESPERSON! Chungchok... Obviously,
> this is because these folk can't speak for themselves <VBG>
>
> Is anyone actually taking this crap seriously? Amazing waffle... "My
> research showed... " yadda yadda yadda... His research really showed he had
> read David Lane, read the detractors view, and NOT read Doug's book.
DAVID LANE REPLIES:
In one of my very first conversations with Ford Johnson (his assistant
invariably called to contact me and we then eventually hooked up on
the phone), I mentioned that he should read Doug Marman's book.
Ford was already aware of it.
I told him that it was important to see how Doug and others had a
different view on such subjects as the 1922 birthdate, Kirpal Singh,
and other matters.
I think that is one of the reasons he tracked down Gail and Paul's
marriage certificate.
At least the "typo" defense of Steve seems to have been buried.
cher
You scent is all over this book, david. No big surprises here!
Michael
"cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3F314B92...@worldnet.att.net...
I know a lot of ECKists who regrad David Lane as "The Enemy" but the fact
is, he is writing for the fun of it... He takes a little part of it
seriously, and the rest is like watching the ripples spread as the rock is
thrown into the pond.
Fact is (as I see it) ... If people are unsettled by the ripple, and if it
tips their apple cart, then the wheels were never on right in the first
place.
Doug has offered the alternative view in a clear and well informed book... I
would have been more impressed if Ford had directed people to read his
"free" book on line... At least David Lane does not obscur the alternatives
in this regard.
In this he is being quite fair.
One thing I have learned... Everyone is right in accordance with their
belief structures. The most miserable and bitter people tend to view
themselves as quite OK, yet often the kindest and most courteous people tend
to view themselves as less than worthy ... Why? It is all perspective.
The ones who regard themselves as "less than" need an ogre to beat the
worthlessness out of them. They need a battle to allow themselves to feel
worthy... It is all part of the Hero/heroine Journey of Joseph Campbell, and
without the struggle, the person never develops the strength to be truly
free.
In this regard, David Lane is helping people grow stronger. Not that I agree
with what he writes, and the indirection and non-response to so many issues
can seem frustrating... But it is all part of the ripples in the pond
technique he seems to enjoy.
It is a power trip, of course, but that too is valid if it leads one to a
greater love. Next Life he may be the LEM <G>
Maybe we should start a "David Lane foir LEM" movement? He is a bit of a
LEM-ming with some of his argument after all!!
Love
Michael
Michael
"neuralsurfer" <neural...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d975b1d5.03080...@posting.google.com...
Thank you for that David...
At least we know he had the option to read it or otherwise.
I would never accept a "typo" as an issue when someone is writing down their
birthdate. However, for the record, I know many people who write down
misinformation when it comes to Government departments. I have done it
myself... Typically, when I am asked my religion, I write "Ecclectic"
It has never been questioned. <G>
Part of what I find interesting with what I have read so far is how Ford
seems not to see the humour in all of this... I know it all gives you a
chuckle as you look at stuff, but did you get the notion Ford took it all
too seriously? Just curious, as always.
Love
Michael
PS: Spokesman for the Silent Ones? Surely Ford had to be laughing... Surely?
neuralsurfer
Huh?
That wasn't the point.
I was mentioning how Ford was aware of (and informed of) Doug's book.
cher
Oh david! Your point was understood. Now try for a moment to see if you
can comprehend mine for a change. <sigh>
cher
I was simply pointing out that david had his hand in the book, that's
all. As to his worth, I think I'll leave that judgement up to his former
wife and her family who are out so much money after all those law suits.
<wink> I have a feeling the lords of karma will take their feelings into
account. <grin> Beyond that.... he's just a burned out beach boy trying
to prove that his prostate is healthy. A big yawn. Sorry. But at least
we can have different viewpoints on the subject without having to
demonize each other about it!!! And isn't that refreshing for a
change??? <boldly grinning>
Siva Ri
postings titled The Eck Vidya Plagiarism by Catlist.
>
"An interesting detail arises when Paul gets to the place in the
source book where the number nine is being discussed. The source book
discusses the Nine Muses or Nine Wisdoms of Grecian mythology who were
the supposed inspiration behind all the ancient teachings on the arts,
music, etc. The source book also mentions the Elect of the Nine in
Masonic tradition, a group of mystical elder founders of the Masonic
order.
"But Paul mentions neither the Muses nor the Elect of the Nine.
Instead, he introduces at this point in his ECK-VIDYA chapter the
famous Nine Silent Ones of ECKANKAR! And what does he call them in his
manuscript? The nine wisdoms! And the attributes he assigns to the
Nine Silent Ones are essentially a blend of the Greek Muses and the
Masonic Elect of Nine. Like the Muses, they are in charge of all the
teachings, sciences, and religions of the lower worlds. And like the
Masonic Elect of the Nine, they are the original heads and directors
of the ECKANKAR hierarchy. Hmmm. Does this tell us where Paul got his
notion of the Nine Silent Ones?"
Sean
Of course you were David. But learned folk have learnt, [read the discussion
archives on law case with b-i-l as lawyer in 2001], that it is the very
things you FAIL to mention where the story gets far more interesting as far
as the truth is concerned at least.
I wait here patiently as the wheel slowly turns.
<G>
Love Sean
Sean
He'll take the 5th for sure!
<VBG>
Michael
Oh/... Please do not doubt that I personally think David is missing a large
portion of the boat when it comes to seeing the obvious. We all saw how he
ducked and dived and refused to answer the obvious when Doug and other
repeatedly pointed it out to him... It is just that he too has his place.
Mind you... when that karma button gets hit and the flush starts to happen,
you soon discover the floaties were all once peach melbas <G>
Love
Michael
cher
And then mix himself a Manhattan! <sigh>
cher
LOL...... how poetic! <smile>
Michael
"Sean" <lifes...@earth.org> wrote in message
news:3f32142e$1...@news.comindico.com.au...
Ah yes... the Brother-in-Law scenario...
David still failed to account for the fact that he would not talk about HIS
brother-in-Law because it was an intrusion of privacy, but somehow it was
all very much different when he writes about Paul Twitchell's
Brother-in-Law.
And the HOOPS everyone had to jump through as slowly the actual truth got
extricated from Dear David!
I can only expect that given past experience, David will slowly emerge with
some vague facts about the real history of Ford Johnson and himself over the
next decade or two <G>
He must love it, you know... Getting a "high ranking convert" on side... But
what most people fail to recognise, that if someone wants to go, and if
someone wants to criticise, and if someone wants to believe Eckankar is all
wrong... they are allowed to believe this. In fact, no one really is
concerned either way, other than the details of correcting the patently
false "facts"
It is a big "whatever" ... Anyway, it is as far as I am concerned.
Love
Michael
>
>
Sean
I'm with you whatever! ;-))
> >
> >
>
>
Iron Man
> >
> > In one of my very first conversations with Ford Johnson (his assistant
> > invariably called to contact me and we then eventually hooked up on
> > the phone), I mentioned that he should read Doug Marman's book.
> >
> > Ford was already aware of it.
> >
> > I told him that it was important to see how Doug and others had a
> > different view on such subjects as the 1922 birthdate, Kirpal Singh,
> > and other matters.
> >
> > I think that is one of the reasons he tracked down Gail and Paul's
> > marriage certificate.
> >
> > At least the "typo" defense of Steve seems to have been buried.
> >
> > You scent is all over this book, david. No big surprises here!
>
>
>
> Huh?
>
> That wasn't the point.
>
> I was mentioning how Ford was aware of (and informed of) Doug's book.
It isn't listed anywhere in the bibliography of 'Confessions of a God
Seeker', pp. 523-538.
Michael
"Iron Man" <Iron_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e7d42fda.03080...@posting.google.com...
Really?
That seems a rather large oversight... Does Ford have something to fear with
Doug's book?
Perhaps a little common sense is the enemy of bias?
Maybe someone can write this in to Ford, to see what he answers??
Why oh why do I suspect his choice of questions to answer is not quite an
open book <VBG>
<G>
Love
Michael
Sean
Somewhere on his site though i did see a link to Doug's website. Not sure
where.
Michael
That is something... But one would have thought that as he knew of Doug's
book being a DIRECT challenge to the Lane Meme's then an attitude of
fairness should has seen it listed as a CLEAR alternative view.
I suspect the view was too clear, thus a challenge that was unwelcome.
Love
Michael
>
>
Mike
The implications of the contact with the Nine Silent Ones
are enormous to me. I must mull over this further but so far
it has been to conclude that the Nine Silent Ones have become
in the 21st century the Nine Noisy Ones. Am looking forward
to their appearance on Oprah.
Mike