Life after ECKANKAR for former ECKists
signon77
former ECKists. But I am curious. Have they collectively grasped
atheism, returned to Christianity or what? If spiritual unfoldment in
this incarnation holds any attraction for them at all, by what means
are they now "ascending the stairway to heaven"?
Rob
Kinpa
a good question, i also wonder why former members hang on so tightly
to a path they dont like, or even despise...what's the point in that?
anyone?
wernertrp
The former members of Eckankar make a mistake in here thinking
procedure.
The think any actual activ long time member of Eckankar is very happy
with Eckankar.
This must not be true.
The only things what these Eckankar members have done correctly is to
end
the endless-search-procedure.
Kinpa
oh c'mon, just answer the question lol...
Rich?
It's a good question Rob. Outside this forum I personally know some HI's
that left to study with Kirpal Singh, some went to the Gurdjieff path but
later reverted to their original Christian roots, and some that are content
and quite happy with the awareness they've gained via the Eckankar
teachings. I know a few that left and returned after some years in limbo.
As to those that have come through A.R.E., most all I have interacted with
are in a limbo of following no other path. I've asked and found that it's
because there isn't a better path to be found. Of course some throw the baby
out with the bathwater and become atheists. A large portion stay in the
stage where they were, never able to break free from the morass of mental
machinations. Paul talked and wrote a lot about the traps of the mind. These
are the most difficult attachments to shift the consciousness away from and
default to Soul. When the mind becomes illuminated by the Light, it becomes
a window and not a door. IME the former Eckists on this forum keep growing
spiritually, albeit in lateral directions. They no longer are focused on
Self or God-Realization.
Rich~~~~~~~~Sailing the Cosmic Sea~~~~~
Rich?
http://bit.ly/a63dbT More to learn about the 2nd, 4th, and/or 5th?
Rich~~~~~~~~Sailing the Cosmic Sea~~~~~
Rich?
> On 28 Sep., 18:49, Kinpa <tsharp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Sep 28, 10:45 am, signon77 <signo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Regularly we read the uncomplimentary views on this forum expressed
>>> by former ECKists. But I am curious. Have they collectively grasped
>>> atheism, returned to Christianity or what? If spiritual unfoldment
>>> in this incarnation holds any attraction for them at all, by what
>>> means are they now "ascending the stairway to heaven"?
>>
>>> Rob
>>
>> a good question, i also wonder why former members hang on so tightly
>> to a path they dont like, or even despise...what's the point in that?
>> anyone?
>
> The former members of Eckankar make a mistake in here thinking
> procedure.
> The think any actual activ long time member of Eckankar is very happy
> with Eckankar.
> This must not be true.
I agree. It's clear to me there is a bell curve.
> The only things what these Eckankar members have done correctly is to
> end
> the endless-search-procedure.
Again, there is a bell curve and I'd say few have ended it. IME the shift
from human seeker to Self-Realization is wavering, gradual, and not a static
state of consciousness.
But why, after so many years, are _you_ still here Werner?
Rich~~~~~~~~Sailing the Cosmic Sea~~~~~
Etznab
".... They no longer are focused on Self or
God-Realization."
It was too strong a language to generalize about
other people and their spiritual paths outside of
Eckankar Inc. (IMO).
Surely you don't mean that anybody on a path,
(or belonging to a religion) other than Eckankar
is something less? Or that people who leave
Eckankar are separated from Self & God-Real-
ization?
Patti Simpson is a good example. She might
have left for reasons not mentioned here. And
I wouldn't necessarily put her in the category
that some Eckists posting here have put non-
eckists.
Etznab
Rich?
Certainly, but that was not what I said. The discussion was referring to
former ECKists who express uncomplimentary views on this forum, the
detractors "that have come through A.R.E.". I can't think of one. How about
you? Do you know any ex-Eckists that post here, or even on ET, ESA or Ford's
group that have said they still do? Have there been any threads discussing
it? See why I generalized it? It's generally true.
> Surely you don't mean that anybody on a path,
> (or belonging to a religion) other than Eckankar
> is something less? Or that people who leave
> Eckankar are separated from Self & God-Real-
> ization?
I wonder what it is about you that you seem to so often default to the
wrong(usually negative) interpretation of what I write? Now that I reflect
on it though, it's what you do with some of the Eckankar writings too, so I
guess I do know.
> Patti Simpson is a good example. She might
> have left for reasons not mentioned here. And
> I wouldn't necessarily put her in the category
> that some Eckists posting here have put non-
> eckists.
Neither would I. It's interesting that you don't recognize the difference in
what we were talking about. Patti is one of those I mentioned in my first
paragraph. "content and quite happy with the awareness they've gained via
the Eckankar teachings." To my knowledge she has never voiced
"uncomplimentary views", has never posted here, because she want to stay
under the radar. I do know that she and Gail have been shocked and dismayed
at some of the lies that are spread around the internet.
Rich~~~~~~~~Sailing the Cosmic Sea~~~~~
wernertrp
>
> - Zitierten Text anzeigen -
Live after Eckankar is the same as before Eckankar except his/her
esoteric bookcase is 6 foots longer.
TianYue
You've missed a very important point to leaving eckankar, and
essentially have erected a strawman. People leave eckankar because
it's proven to be a sham. What they do after leaving is beside the
point, because whatever former members do after leaving, eckankar
remains a sham.
TianYue
TianYue
Additionally...
If all the former members learn from the eckankar experience is to use
more critical thinking and be less gullible, and to view spirituality
with a more mature and eyes-wide-open approach, they will usually be
better off in their lives no matter what teachings they follow after
leaving.
WarriorSoul
How has ECKANKAR been proven to be a sham! I think I read somewhere
where you had said that you became a member of ECKANKAR when you were
16. I was introduced to ECKANKAR when I was 15 and only became a
member in 2007 after finding out what happened to Darwin Gross years
later, David lane Ford Johnson B.S ect. So if I understand you right
I should discount my experiences before and after I became a member
because you and a few other's say that ECKANKAR is a sham. Let's see
some REAL proof!
signon77
Tianyue,
Once upon a time I was a member of the Christian faith. But the whole
issue of Jesus dying for my sins remained a sticking point. It made no
sense at all. Furthermore, having been introduced to Buddhism, Islam
and Hinduism during Religious Education at school, how could I be
right and all other religions wrong? Aged 14, this was my first
spiritual crisis.
Fast forward to Nigeria years later and finding ECKANKAR. Now able to
Soul Travel, thanks to the ECK teachings, I was able to prove 2
things:
a) Death is an illusion
b) Jesus could not possibly have died for my sins.
Tianyue, having left Christianity behind, I am not spending the years
prior to my death bashing it. Jesus Christ is no longer for me but he
represents an excellent next step to God for legions of followers
around the globe. Contrast this attitude with former ECKists who
continually knock ECKANKAR without :
a) Pointing out the "true way ahead".
b) Informing us what heights of spirituality they have attained since
departing ECKANKAR.
Surely, if they really have moved forward spiritually, they would be
grateful whatever enlightenment that had received before moving
forward to their next higher step. Very peculiar.
May the blessings be.
Rob
signon77
The penultimate paragraph above is a bit garbled and should have read:
"Surely, if they really have moved forward spiritually, they would be
grateful for whatever enlightenment that had received in ECKANKAR
TianYue
You've ignored my comment completely, and you're repeating, using
different words, the circular logic. You're just restating what you
said before. Whatever road a person follows after leaving eckankar is
not relevant to the issue of whether or not Paul Twitchell created a
counterfeit religion. These are two separate issues. You're
essentially stating that it matters more to you what path the ex-
members follow than whether eckankar is authentic.
As to your remarks about critiques of Christianity and their validity
and justification, and using that as a comparison to those who
critique eckankar, I think people who doubt what they've been told
about Christianity, and who want an objective, well researched
examination of that teaching, do appreciate the expositions on the
subject. Of course, this applies to any teaching. Would you remove
from the library shelves all books which investigate religions
objectively and which tell the real truth about the histories of
various religions?
You don't speak for all eckists, nor for all people in the world who
want to hear all sides of the story about groups like eckanakar.
Tianyue
TianYue
The case against eckankar has been repeated over and over again in
various internet forums, such as this one, and in two books, so I
recommend you read those sources. I won't repeat the volumes of
information here, again, and again.
But as to what you believe, that's not my concern.
TianYue
Kinpa
then just let it go~!
TianYue
Strawman: that I need to let "it" go, as if I am holding on to
something I shouldn't. Nonsense. Gibberish. Something you made up.
TianYue
Kinpa
you ARE holding on to something...
TianYue
Irrelevant to the subject. Whether or not I am holding on to
"something" doesn't make my assertion wrong. Stating that is just
another diversion you created to have some sort of rebuttal. It's ad
hominem, a personal insult you made up because you lack anything
substantial to say.
TianYue
Kinpa
its amazing to me how wrongly a person can perceive things, as you
have here...i didnt insult you, but obviously you choose to perceive
it as an insult, and that is very telling in itself...your reply is a
mirror that reflects your image back upon itself...your own words are
an example of exactly what you accuse me of, if you cant come up with
a rebuttal, thats fine, this isnt a contest, there will be no points
awarded, but the intensity of your response shows very clearly that i
hit a chord within you somehow, perhaps your attachment is pointing
itself out to you...
TianYue
Oh my....please, if one more eckist™ employs the sappy repetition of
the overused "mirror" analogy I'll join eckankar™ again just to prove
you all wrong!
Spare me your indignation. Of course you aren't insulting me. You're
just trying to "teach" me, or some such drivel.
Kinpa
dont flatter yourself silly boy,you mirrored your accusation just as
i said, simple, dont blame it on Eckankar, it's your own fault, no one
else's...again, the intensity of your reply THIS time speaks volumes
about you, especially the part about "proving us all wrong", do you
feel the need to prove something to someone? personally, i dont care,
so i cant imagine who you need to prove this to to make your ego feel
better, but it isnt i...
TianYue
Not going to play. Enjoy. My point is this thread to the first
commenter, which was originally about life after eckankar, was this:
"You've missed a very important point to leaving eckankar, and
essentially have erected a strawman. People leave eckankar because
it's proven to be a sham. What they do after leaving is beside the
point, because whatever former members do after leaving, eckankar
remains a sham."
Since you lack a viable, intelligent answer to my comment, apparently
insults are all you can fall back on as a retort, and now you're
pretending that I insulted you, rather than the other way around. This
has devolved into a pissing contest of insults, as usual, and as far
as such contests go, I''l concede that you have won. I'm not good at
insults. Your insults are far better than mine.
TianYue
TianYue
Jumbled my second sentence, which should have been, "My point IN this
thread to the first commenter, which was originally about life after
eckankar, was this:"
Tianyue
Kinpa
do what you need to go, again, i simply dont care...
Henosis Sage
Kinpa 29/09/2010
- show quoted text -
REPLY TO WERNER: "oh c'mon, just answer the question lol..."
Hey stupid, he did answer the "question" - it's 100% your problem Matthew Sharpe if you do not like his answers, nor understand WTF he said and meant.
For others this is a classic Werner reply back in 2010 ... he shoots straight.
I will "edit" what his reply was, to overcome typos and grammar issues
(if i get it wrong werner please correct me. )
KINPA's question was:
"i also wonder why former members hang on so tightly to a path
they dont like, or even despise...what's the point in that?
anyone?"
have psychological sphincter issues on his plate 24/7 - iow Matthew Sharpe's
INTERPRETATIONS are not necessary true and correct - in fact evidence shows
they are predominantly very wrong indeed, but that's another story ]
WERNER's edited answer was:
The former members of Eckankar make a mistake in their thinking procedure.
They think any actual still active long time member of Eckankar is very happy
with Eckankar.
This is not automatically true by default. For many current Eckankar members
are not "very happy" with Eckankar and their co-workers either.
In my view and experience here at a.r.e. the ONLY things that these long term
Eckankar members have done "correctly" is that they stopped their endless
searching procress and activities. They stopped LOOKING for truth having
assumed they had found it in Eckankar.
I say this is "correct" from the pov of being a proper acceptable ECKist
member.
The flip side is that ex-Eckists continued again on their search for "truth"
and they found much truth they did not know existed when they were INSIDE
the Eckankar "bubble".
As such some (only a VERY small minority of) the hundreds of thousands, up to
a million plus of EX-Eckists now have bothered to turn up and share what they
learnt post-Eckankar with their formerly "friendly" still current Eckist co-workers.
And people are human, be they ex-eckist or current eckists or never an eckist shall be.
HS "duly plagiarised" from Werner for purposes of clarity and a greater
wisdom for all people's of the world.
Kinpa
Actually you have no such proof to support your own interpretation, but hey why allow a thing like reality interfere with your delusions?? My interpretations are in fact correct and accurate, and also have a large number of individuals who are able to have experience that confirms this...funny the way you stated just today that you have had conscious OBE's and yet anytime anyone else says that they are insane....just that same ever present symptom of Muchausen's Syndrome, much like your constant need to diagnose the mental states of others constantly....whatever gets you through the night!
Enjoy your delusions! And thank you SO much for the humor each of those presents, and also for the great many threads dedicated to me and proclaiming my importance....funny that you refuse to accept the part you have played in creating a "God-in-the-body" but we know that wouldn't be very convenient for you...
Henosis Sage
Kinpa to Leaf
16/10/2010
- show quoted text -
i said, simple, dont blame it on Eckankar, it's your own fault, no one
else's...again, the intensity of your reply THIS time speaks volumes
about you, especially the part about "proving us all wrong", do you
feel the need to prove something to someone? personally, i dont care,
so i cant imagine who you need to prove this to to make your ego feel
better, but it isnt i...
Nuffin' changed there .... LOL
There's many more than that .. groups search isn't that good anymore.
Muchausen's Syndrome ... look needle dick go research what that disorder
actually is, idiot incompetent that you are.
Yes Twitchell was an incompetent, but next to you Matthew Sharpe he was a like Perfect GOD.
You should change your name to *Mr. Incompetent* using deed poll.
At least it would be true.
Henosis Sage
RE: Matthew Sharpe says:
"...funny the way you stated just today that you have had conscious OBE's and
yet anytime anyone else says that they are insane..."
Matthew Sharpe is either a LYING WHORE or a DELUSIONAL PSYCHOPATHIC NUTCASE
I go for both depending on how screwed up he is from one day to the next.
I've mentioned my OBEs and NDEs on this site for ~20 years, not do FCUK OFF
you low life lying manipulative narcissistic psychopathic piece of SHIT~!!!
Henosis Sage
> On Wednesday, 15 June 2016 14:07:29 UTC+10, Kinpa wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 15, 2016 at 3:24:44 AM UTC, Henosis Sage wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, 29 September 2010 06:50:40 UTC+10, Kinpa wrote:
A complete Idiot and utterly incompetent. As dumb as dirt.
The raving lunatic says:
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Actually you have no such proof to support your own interpretation, but hey why allow a thing like reality interfere with your delusions?? My interpretations are in fact correct and accurate, and also have a large number of individuals who are able to have experience that confirms this...funny the way you stated just today that you have had conscious OBE's and yet anytime anyone else says that they are insane....just that same ever present symptom of Muchausen's Syndrome, much like your constant need to diagnose the mental states of others constantly....whatever gets you through the night!
> >
> >
> > Enjoy your delusions! And thank you SO much for the humor each of those presents, and also for the great many threads dedicated to me and proclaiming my importance....funny that you refuse to accept the part you have played in creating a "God-in-the-body" but we know that wouldn't be very convenient for you...
>
> ----
>
> RE: Matthew Sharpe says:
>
> "...funny the way you stated just today that you have had conscious OBE's and
> yet anytime anyone else says that they are insane..."
>
> Never happened!
>
> Matthew Sharpe is either a LYING WHORE or a DELUSIONAL PSYCHOPATHIC NUTCASE
>
> I go for both depending on how screwed up he is from one day to the next.
>
> I've mentioned my OBEs and NDEs on this site for ~20 years, not do FCUK OFF
> you low life lying manipulative narcissistic psychopathic piece of SHIT~!!!
all the way back in DEC 2014 -- AN IDIOT~!!!
Why?
Garbage and shit pours endlessly out of his mouth.
He is either seriously dyslexic or he never bothers, across decades, to read
what it that people actually say.
The bits he does read he connot compute accurately and twists almost everything he reads into something else entirely.
No, not with my but with EVERYONE ... EVERYWHERE.
He's aggressive and he's argumentative.
He's arrogant and narcissistic and suffers serious personality disorders.
He is incapable of proper human relations and communication.
He Lies about himself, about others, about everything.
He is so utterly delusional with bipolar/schizophrenic symptoms he fails to
separate his dubious and wild "fantasies/delusions" from reality.
He imagines he really "smart" and "spiritually" and "ethically" advanced - advanced above almost all others in society.
That's mainly the Narcissistic Pathology at work -- excessive egotism and hubris.
At the end of day it ends up here:
Powerless - adjective
1.
unable to produce an effect:
"a disease against which modern medicine is virtually powerless."
2.
lacking power to act; helpless:
"His legs crumpled, and he was powerless to rise."
Powerlessness - noun
Synonyms
1. ineffective. 2. feeble, impotent, prostrate, infirm.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/powerlessness
--- --- ---
The Definition of Powerlessness From an Addict
The Meaning of Powerlessness
From that point on, I was powerless over my addiction. I experienced powerlessness in a way I didn’t know existed. I was completely without power, without strength, without any ability to control how much I used.
I also lacked power over my obsessive thoughts about drugs. Pills and powder were constantly on my mind. Wherever I went, I thought about them. Once I began using, I had no control over the amount I’d take that day. Sometimes, I’d only use a little. Mostly, I’d use however much I could get my hands on.
Learn how the obsession to use drugs/alcohol can be removed
Powerlessness implies a lack of control. Looking back, it’s as if from the moment I took that first drug, I had no control over my addiction. Now, as I grow in my recovery, I realize how little control I have over most situations.
I can’t control my roommate’s perception of something when we’re trying to compromise. I can’t control whether or not I get that awesome job. It’s easy to wonder what the point of recovery is at all. Of course, the answer is glaringly obvious if you work a twelve-step program!
More here: http://lighthouserecoveryinstitute.com/powerlessness/
Simply replace the word "drugs" with "shit, attention seeking, hubris, self-
obsessions, verbal diarrhea, bullying, stalking, narcissistic supply, craving
for power, manipulating others, issuing threats, OCD......" and one gets to
see how utterly "powerless" Matt Sharpe truly is.