MARMAN - The World Champion at Getting Things WRONG - Exhibit #135 ECKANKAR not like RS/RUHANI

[Peetee Aitchei]

MARMAN - The World Champion at Getting Things WRONG - Exhibit #135 Eckankar is nothing like RS/RUHANI

Since 1983 Doug Marman has publicly minimized and discounted the direct
influence of Kirpal Singh, Ruhani Satsang, and Radhasoami upon Twitchell
and his ideas and Philosophy of Bilocation or *Eckankar*.

Marman is Twitchell's #1 Apologist who has made all manner of claims as if
he knew what was correct and what was not. In matters Ruhani Satsang and
Kirpal Singh Marman presented himself as having researched their history
and studied their teachings. His conclusion was that the similarities were
minimal. That Twitchell had presented something altogether different, far
and above larger in scope than anything Ruhani Satsang or Radhasoami offered.

Most Eckists believed that Twitchell 'coined' the phrase "Co-Worker with God".
Klemp down believed that the word Eckankar means: "Co-Worker with God".
Klemp has since modified that into: "Co-Worker with the Mahanta", instead.

What Sant Kirpal Singh said repeatedly to his Satsangi's, including Twitchell,
from the late 1940s is: "become a conscious co-worker of the Divine Plan" and
"be a co-worker for the divine"

Kirpal put it in sentences like this: "You must be reborn. When you rise
above the body and become a conscious co-worker of the Divine plan--then,
there is something."

This can be found over 75 times in his writings on the Ruhani USA website alone.

Kirpal also used the phrase "above body consciousness" repeatedly.

Twitchell used the terms Bilocation, and exteriorization, out of body
experience, inner travel, spiritual travelers did it, and finally settled
on "Soul Travel" and then Trademarked that term for Eckankar.

Despite the FACT that Twitchell never 'coined' the term Soul Travel either.
It had been in use in writings and paths, in books he had read published
long before the 1940s. But that's Twitchell. Kirpal Singh was teaching the
exact same thing using his own temrinology of "above body consciousness".

The content in this older thread from a.r.e. may help the reader understand
the extent of the similarties between how Eckankar and Ruhani were presented
to the public and strudents the 1960s and 1970s:
The Music of the Spheres - Sound Current Shabd EK
Transcript: The Music of the Spheres by Sant Kirpal Singh
- Naam Sound Current Word Shabd EK Bani Nada Bindu and more -
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/BY3sybHy3e4/ve2E_xh9sTUJ

In those posts one will likely find multiple examples of the exact same
things spoken of by Kirpal and in Twitchell's writings. Kirpal gave proper
credit. Placed ideas into their time and place and yet drew strong links
between them all.

Twitchell gave no one credit, making up a slew of cartoon figures instead,
who taught him on the inner. Then he and his followers proceeded to TRASH
Kirpal Singhs name and Ruhani as an alsoran teaching far below that of
Eckankar. There was nothing greater or higher than Eckankar. Twitchell states
that uneqivocally in The Far Country book and in many other places.

Others followed this claim, such as Klemp himself, quoting him in 1984:
" But Kirpal Singh never mentioned that he, too, had picked them up from
someone before him. In a way, he was trying to possess truth.
But truth builds upon itself. Kirpal Singh had gathered it from other
groups, Paul had taken it and built upon it from many different
areas, and he then moved it more than a step further. More than just
identifying the mysterious force--which he later called the ECK -- that
works through all the God worlds, Paul said, "I also know how to begin
working with It." "
http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

NO, sorry that is not correct. It's 100% WRONG! This is disinformation out
there this since 1984, and it's about time the TRUTH was known to all.

Kirpal DID mention where and from whom he had picked up his knowledge,
every day of his life. Twitchell is the one who never mentioned it!!!

Instead he intentionally LIED about it, and DENIED his prior teachers
and his ACTUAL SOURCES by redacting names, copying verbatim from other
books, and the re-writing that material in a way to INTENTIONALLY COVER
UP his real sources. He lied, repeatedly, until the day he died.

Klemp has this back to front. It's not about whose master is the better
master, it all about the actual truth of this history. The people who are
Guilty of trying to possess Truth actually include Twitchell, Klemp,
Marman, Patti Simpson, Gail Twitchell-etc, and many others connected to
Eckankar. NOT Kirpal Singh. His background was open and obvious.

Kirpal Singh acknowledged his teachers, the spiritual sources he quoted
and taught others, and his own personal Master in Sawan Singh. People knew
or could find out about Radhasoami Beas and the Sawan Singh connection,
because Kirpal spoke openly about that and his time with RSSB. Each was
free to choose as they had the basic information of the interconnectedness
of those 'groups' and their shared history and philosophies.

The teachings all drew on Soamiji and Saligram from the 1800s, from Sufism,
the Sikh Gurus, Hinduism, Islam, from Sant Mat and Kabir, and even Christianity.

Klemp in his public comments about twitchell's history blatantly distorts the
truth of events when he claims: "Secondly, when Kirpal Singh found out about
Paul doing these Soul Travel workshops, he wrote a letter to the Parapsychology
Foundation and informed them that Paul's works were a lot like his own."

FACT: The WHOLE TRUTH is that the woman at the CPF in San Diego FIRST WROTE
to Kirpal Singh. And given what a polite gentleman Singh was he replied to
that woman's letter with courtesy, and answered the questions she asked of
him OPENLY and HONESTLY. Kirpal did NOT go chasing her or Twitchell down.

At that time Kirpal Singh did not care one bit what Twitchell was doing
in the USA. But it is well known fact how seriously Kirpal Singh and all
the RS Gurus took matters such as responding to letters. What Kirpal really
did is a far cry from what Harold Klemp does when people write him a letter.

Initiations are stripped, responsibilities taken away, or typically ZERO
Response is ever received from him. Manifold evidence for this abounds,
it's a FACT. Quoc Quy Hoang 2005/01/03 is still awaiting his urgent response
from Harold!
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.religion.eckankar/EzdqX--SU5E

And they were NOT "Soul Travel workshops" they were in fact "BILOCATION
PHILOSOPHY workshops"! Doh! At that point the term Soul Travel hadn't been
used, so again this 'image' presented by Klmep is very misleading and
inaccurate. The public and Eckists were only being told a tiny slice of
the whole truth and thus distorting reality and the history in the process.

To this day it has not been corrected, and depsite the claimed "research"
skills of Marman and co his contribution has not helped clarify much at all.
The Whole Truth certainly does not present an honest reporting of the facts
or the truth. David Lane did some initial basic rrsearch but made some mistakes
in his conclousions along the way. It was however very hard to get accurate
data back in the 70s to 90s about Twitchell's life and Ruhani.

But at least Lane's mistakes were HONEST ones. Eckankar certainly never
co-operated with him, Doug marman never co-operated with lane and instead
chose to publicly and repeated criticise Lane and argue with him for decades
instead. Simultaneously Marman was withholding True facts he did know about
or believed to be correct. Marman refused to make public nor share privately
with Lane or anyone else. For years on a.r.e. Marman was playing a double-game
keeping his cards very close to his chest.

This endless disinformation, withholding, and falsehoods put out by Marman and
Klemp were intentional distortions. Or it's a mater of severe cognitive
impairment and rank incompetence on their part. Who could reallly tell? I can't.

One alternative is as bad as the other. In their 'authoritive' postions it is
inexcuseable, dishonest, inept, unethical and ultimately manipulative of others
across decades to today. This is not the sign of spiritual integrity.

So Klemp did go on to claim in his talk referecned above:
Paul said, "I also know how to begin working with It."

Well whoopie poop! So what? Both Twitchell and Gail confirmed in their Ruhani
Initiation reports and subsequent letters that Kirpal Singh was quite
effective in "working with IT" ... Many others have confirmed Kirpal's
positive attributes seen over decades. He by all accounts very much knew "how
to work with IT" too!

Who is Klemp to accuse Kirpal Singh of "trying to possess truth" or falsely
claiming Kirpla didn;t tell others where he had got his knowledge and
expereicne for the job from? False loyalty and apologetics is no excuse for
falsely charging another fully deserving of Respect with things they never did.

Doesn't sound very "masterly" to me in any way.

------

OK so from this one transcript about the "Music of the Spheres" from Kirpal
Singh are a few names and words that should sound very familiar to all Eckists
past and present. Even Marman might recognise some and reconsider his prior
distortions, false accusations, and blindingly obvious Bias.

the Music of the Spheres
Baba Sawan Singh (Intro to Eckankar 1966 pg 5 Index)
Plato
Sant Kirpal Singh (DWTM TTF TFC TFOG books)
Naam or Shabd or Word
Sound Current
Cause
Logos or the Holy Spirit
Divine Sound
Sach Khand
the Source of all is Sound.
Kabir
Hafiz
Guru Nanak
Shamas Tabrez
Rumi
Socrates,
John the Baptist
Madam Blavatsky,
"Voice of God."
Masonic Order
the Rishis
Zoroaster
Logos of the Greeks
Tao of the Chinese
Enlightenment of Buddha
Sound-essence of the philosophers.
the Upanishads
Vedas
Buddha
Lord Krishna
Jacob Boehme,
Divine Music,
Hazrat Inayat Khan,
Sufi mystics
All space is filled with the Abstract Sound.
Traveling through the tunnel
Edgar Cayce
Guru Arjan
Tulsi Sahib
Bell is ringing wildly
violin and cello, flute, harp and trumpet, cymbal, bell and drum - all within me!
Creative Current
"tuned in" in order to receive the Music.
higher vibrations.
Julian Johnson, The Path of the Masters
The human soul and Holy Shabd are of the same Divine Essence
Holy Shabd Dhun
Living Master is love personified
Audible Life Stream.
grace of the Master
I hear the sound of crickets
Sounds of the Big Bells and Conch, Thunder and Drum beat are higher Sounds.
Master-Power
holy Sound Current becomes audible
Bhajan
the seat of the soul

May your soul be happy;
journey joyfully.
(Rumi)

Yep, all the above is from the LIPS of Kirpal Singh, Master of Ruhani Satsang.
He spent his whole life giving credit! Please READ the whole document on a.r.e.
using the link provided above.

Kirpal Singh spent his whole life sitting with his Initiates in retreats, and at
talks, and taking questions from the floor and answering them FACE TO FACE.

He did this until he died when he was in his 80s.

So on what rational and evidential basis did Marman claim Twitchell's teaching
was TOTALLY DIFFERENT?

Marman claims that Twitchell hardly spent any time with Kirpal Singh, that Ruhani
and RS were NOT a Major part of the ECK teachings .... care to repeat that again
publicly Marman?

Twitchell may have not received Initiation until 1955 but Marman has NO IDEA or
even an inkling of a thought for how long twitchell was studying Radhasoami or
Ruhani and Kirpal BEFORE 1955. How many books by RS Twitchell had already typed
out extracts from on his trusty RT, his Royal Typewriter waiting for Kirpal to
come on a second tour.

Marman instead falsely claims that Eckankar is different because of Twitchell's
references to Rumi, Shams, Guru Ganak, Guru Arjan, Sufis, Sihks, the Aryan Rama,
Zoroaster et al and of course RT, or Rebazar Tarszu and Yaubl Socabi and the
God-Eaters who also met Blavatsky and all that Jazz???

Sorry Doug Marman, what did you say again - I can't hear you properly?

Was that .... "Oh, really sorry everyone, I got it wrong. I didn't research this
enough nor professionally, I didn't put my own BIAS on the shelf. I just
believed what I was told without checking anything, unless it fitted my
preconceived BELIEFS and whatever Patti and Gail told me was true. I have been
both a gullible fool and an incompetent Historical Researcher and Biographer.
Worst than that I have accused others such as Kirpal Singh of thinking things
and doing that they never did, and there is no evidecne to support ANY of my
knee-jerk assumptions. I am very sorry for that, and I will write to those
people I have falsely accused, and blamed for things that I myself have done
without even realising I was doing it. I got a whole lot of things seriously
wrong!!! For that I humbly apologise to anyone I have inadvertantly harmed
along the way by my own stupidity, and beg your forgiveness."

There ya go Doug, now that didn't kill you!

Did it?

[Peetee Aitchei]

Part Two: MARMAN

For years Marman has pushed the FALSEHOOD that Twitchell:
"only studied with Kirpal Singh for a year or so"

The Fact of the matter is this: HE WOULDN'T DAMNED WELL KNOW !!!

Marman put a blindfold on his eyes, self-declared himself an EXPERT,
reached out to grab the Elephants Tail and declared it was a feather duster!

The man is totally incompetent in the search for evidence, for facts,
for the truth and with TRULY HONEST Dialogue.

Twitchell was living in Maryland from 1950, and he was barely several
minutes drive to the Ruhani USA headquarters where they held meetings.

They sold Ruhani and RS Books there, and lent them out. Radhasoami
and Ruhani books and lectures by and about Kirpal Singh were in the
DC Library for years before Kirpal was on his second world tour in 1955.

Twitchell and another new Initiate accompanied Kirpal Singh on his flight
from DC to Boston. It's noted in a record of that tour. Now who in their
RIGHT MIND would allow someone who just appeared out of nowhere for an
Initiation into Ruhani Satsang, to personally accompany the Master on a
airplane flight to Boston to take care of him and support the Master on
that trip?

Only an idiot would, and my take is that Mr Khanna the head of USA Ruhani
was NOT an abject fool.

And only a gullible idiot, incapable of logical thought and insight would
believe that is what happened. No one with any common sense would believe
that no one knew of Twitchell before he was Initiated in Sept 1955 and
then given such close and responsible contact with the revered Master from
New Delhi.

And anyone who had any basic knowledge of Ruhani Satsang and RSSB would have already known that Initiation was NEVER automatic just because someone asked for it. Some people had to wait years for such a Blessing, others asked repeatedly and the answer was always NO, sorry!

Which brings me to another egregious distortion about RS Beas, Sawan Singh,
and Ruhani and Kirpal found within the mythology of Eckankar.

Twitchell (and Marman) claims in several places that the edict from Sawan
Singh was to initiate all comers, and that Kirpal Singh continued that
through Ruhani. That claim by Twitchell and BELIEF it was true is totally
FALSE, and provably so!

But this the LOW Standard of Marman's historical research in his fanatical
crusade to be the hero for Twitchell and Eckankar Apologetics - bar none.

Fact is Marman was not up to the task at hand. Such is the power of false beliefs and entrenched self-delusions.

Grandiosity absent Reality or Truth to back it up.

Just another big EGO and Vanity couched in polite smarmy niceness!

But the gullible and naive just love to eat this up.

Makes them feel better about their own foolish choices.

Therein lays the rub.

What do you really want?

The Truth or all this never ending Bullshit to eat from Marman and Eckankar?

It's always your own choice and God, Goddess, all that is, the universal
creator and spirit, whatever you want to label it gave YOU all the tools
you needed to work it out for yourself.

Laziness, is a FREE CHOICE too!

[Peetee Aitchei]

After someone was accepted into the Ruhani Initiation process for them to
actually obtain their Initiation in required several months of preparation,
attending classes, and showing proof of one's genuine COMMITMENT to the
Precepts.

One didn't just show up at a talk, put their name down and the next Kirpal
Singh would Initiate you. These are matters Marman, Simpson, Lane, Klemp et al
were and still are ignorant of. Gail Twitchell needed to follow the same
process in 1963.

It is Gail who knows more than most, but I consider anything she may say
now as utterly unreliable and untrustworthy. (absent a polygraph or hard evidence to back up her statements)

So what you have here is two people Twitchell and Gail with NO genuine
Committment to the Vows they were taking. Only later to USE Kirpal Singh,
Ruhani and all of Radhasoami to their own personal ends when it suited them.

Twitchell blatantly lied to Kirpal Singh in his letters (later to make up the
DWTM & TTF books) for those letters claiming Kirpal appeared to Twitchell were
in fact PLAGIARIZED at times verbatim for books... some RS some New thought,
some christian science and more.

And yet ECKists for 50 years have wondered why Kirpal found some things amiss
in Twitchell's letters, his claims, and the Tiger's Fang Manuscript Twitchell desperately wanted Kirpal to publish and get printed for him.

Why couldn't Kirpal Singh recognise Paul Twitchell as this new GREAT MASTER
taking the holy teachings of Kabir and Nanak and Soamiji to the west?

It was Kirpal Singh who was the Master who smelt a rat from the get go, but he
couldn't quite figure it out for a while. He was in India so how could he know
what Twitchell was actually doing form one day to the next?

That's what happens when one is dealing with a compulsive liar, a manipulator
or with self-deluded people who are convinced of their own rightness and self-
righteousness. They are good at it, thus it takes time to work out which way
is up.

So please do not be too hard on yourself. It really isn't about being
"gullible" at all, it's about trusting someone who is very very smooth
with the word plays and the play on words. It's those that Lied to you
who carry the karma, not yourself.

Let it go! The guilt and self-blame, let that go, and hand it back to
the perpetrators you trusted where it truly belongs.

To people like Marman!

btw it should always be remembered that when Twitchell died on his death
certificate under the Occupation section he was listed as

"Author and Lecturer"

It does not say The Mahanta, the Living ECK Master.

[Kinpa]

oh DO stop whining! lol who honestly cares??? NO ONE! deal with it man! who cares what so and so called it then and what so and so calls it now? the most hilarious thing is that none of the people you are criticizing will ever see your words nor ever care to waste the time responding, you will still be left to get over it, or under it, but either way, there is only YOU worrying about it. the fact of the matter is, that people like to put things into their own words, and that will always happen. so what? Kirpal called it this, and Paul Twitchell called it that, and Harold Klemp now calls it this other thing...so what? the basic concept is the very same, and only changes as the interpretations change, but this does not necessarily mean that there is really any difference...its simply not that hard to understand! have a great day buddy boy!

[Peetee Aitchei]

Oh do get over it yourself Kinpa aka Matt Sharpe.

If it is "simply not that hard to understand" how come it's taken you so many decades now and yet you still do not understand even the simplest of matters?

Anyway, you hold to some very interesting thoughts and ideas and assumptions and opinions and beliefs. They are all your own to deal with. I do not care one bit. Have at it!

[Peetee Aitchei]

In the 1940s prior to Kirpal Singh creating Ruhani Satsang when he was
still working with his Master Sawan Singh, Kirpal Singh recorded his inner
experiences and talks with many prior masters who taught him 'things'
about Life and Shabd and 'god'.

A very short list from the RECORDED EVIDENCE he left behind for others
to know about include the following known Gurus and spiritual Masters:

Jesus Christ (Essenes/Christianity and claimed Initiate of the Mahanta, Living ECK Master called Zadok)
Soamiji Maharaj aka Shiv Dayal Singh the founder of Radhasoami Faith
Guru Nanak (1st Sikh Guru)
Saint Kabir (Hindu-Sant Mat)
Buddha aka Gautama Buddha, Siddhārtha Gautama, Shakyamuni (Indian Buddhism)
Zoroaster aka Zarathustra (Zoroastrianism of ancient Persia)
Guru Gobind Singh aka Gobind Rai(10th Sikh Guru)
Baba Jaimal Singh aka Baba Ji (Radhasoami Satsang Beas)
Rumi aka Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Balkhī and Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rūmī (Islamic Sufism)
Baba Sawan Singh (Satguru of Radha Soami Satsang Beas aka RSSB)
Jetsun Milarepa (Tibetan Buddhism)

Oddly Twitchell blatantly CRITICIZED Sant Kirpal Singh directly and
personally in a May 1971 letter with Twitchell categorically denying
Kirpal was ever his Master, and that his work was not in the interest
of spirituality.

That fact is confirmed by Gail Twitchell, Bernadette Burlin, and Kirpal
Singh himself a month before Twitchell suddenly died of a heart attack
when Kirpal said in a talk that "he hasn't got much rope left" (sic).

Klemp on the other hand claims that Kirpal Singh was a Master, and that
Twitchell was his Chela ie student, and that they travelled the inner worlds together, and that Kirpal would appear in Twitchell's room in his radiant form.

Twitchell himself on multiple occasions confirmed this publicly in print.

So the question for people like Kinpa might be: "When was the last time an
Eck Master appeared in your bedroom and gave you dictation to write down?"

or "Was Kirpal Singh an ECK master given that over 20 years before Eckankar
was formed by Twitchell that Kirpal was having direct personal talks with
Rumi, Kabir, Buddha, Nanak, Shiv Dayal Singh author of Sar Barchan which
Twitchell considered was HIS BIBLE, Zoroaster, and Milarepa given that
every single one are considered prior ECK Masters?

Or is all of these Truths simply too hard to understand?

Each to their own, hey, Buddy Boy!

On Wednesday, 24 September 2014 09:15:52 UTC+10, Kinpa wrote:

[Peetee Aitchei]

Some other ideas, experiences and insights to consider and reflect upon seriously.

"Aside from the fact that a little hashish and a few acid trips made this type
of analytical game seem somewhat empty (!), I happened onto the writings of
Paul Brunton (PB), in particular, A Search in Secret India and the Wisdom of
the Overself. This was like a nuclear bomb in my thinking. India, oh India!

Even the subjective idealism of Bishop Berkeley, which I had tediously studied,
was given new life by Paul Brunton's doctrine of mentalism. The world was
in our minds, an idea, and a projection of God or Mind itself, which could be
realized. What amazing thoughts! There was a philosophy that was real, and
rooted in truth, and more than just the endeavor of some pipe smoking arm-chair
intellectuals!

Second, after dozing off one day in an easy chair in the student lounge, I
awoke to find a copy of The Crown of Life: A Study in Yoga by Sant Kirpal Singh
in my lap, along with information on public "satsangs" being held nearby on the
path of Sant Mat, or the "Path of the Masters". The picture on the
frontspiece of this book struck me as a numinous image of what a man of God
would look like. My world did a 180 degree turn. I coasted in my last year
and a half at Cornell taking painting and drawing, music, and "Independent
Research in Mathematics 590", which was really astrology at the downtown
American Brahman spiritual bookstore, courtesy of a very liberal mathematics
professor associated with Wisdom's Goldenrod Center for Philosophic
Studies,"

"I and many others also noted the smell of the archtypal rose, especially
later when in Kirpal Singh's presence. There was also one spontaneous
experience of partial withdrawal from the body in meditation during the day
where I felt, not that I was going anywhere, but just that I was resolving into
myself. Most meditations were not of this quality where the ego was so
quiescent, but this time I had a glimpse that inner experience would not truly
be happening to "me" , just a dropping away of vehicles or koshas (the various
bodies or coverings of the soul) while the real Self remained unchanged. That
insight was remembered as unique, and planted a seed of inquiry in my mind
regarding the concept of "soul travel" as sometimes understood in such
mystic paths as Sant Mat. My current understanding is that the value of such an
exerience lies not in the experience in itself, in its repeatability, but in
the wisdom gained thereby in terms of the transformation of one's sense of
identity. I realize that in a real sense there is nowhere to go and no one to
go anywhere. But that is now, not then."

read the rest here and let it rest:
http://www.mountainrunnerdoc.com/articles/article/2291157/105807.htm

Report on Jacob Paul Twitchell 23-10-1909

You have some preferred inclinations: you love life on the water, your home,
your family and prefer good food. And you are attached to your parents.

You have emotional difficulties with your parents and you are dissatisfied.

You're a bit anxious in self-expression. Sometimes you hurt others by your
ill-considered choice of your words. There is some tension due to an inhibition
which has developed with you as a child by your FATHER constricting in your
self-expression.

You are quick-witted, but sometimes you're talking before you think.

You are distracted, sometimes confused and incomprehensible for others.
But you are looking for clarity in thought and in the expression.
The problems in the communication with your fellow man weigh on you.
To what you are doing you have not a good relationship and you have
relationship problems.
With a rich imagination, you bring your skills creatively expressed.

You use your energy to manipulate and to determine.
You do not know what a successful togetherness means.

In your consciousness, there are fears, neuroses and phobias.
You want to escape from your responsibility because you feel inferior.
You need probably some psychiatric help.
The confusion and lack of imagination of your parents block you long.

Your first life theme is:
»You sacrifice yourself for others, but you should work on YOUR OWN.»

It is a fact that thou hast come with a karma that due to your family is in this life.
In previous incarnations, you have ignored the people who fed you.
Now, the lesson is you imposed on yourself to be the breadwinners.
In this life you will find out that your partner and your children know just
not appreciating it, what you all for them try to do.

Nevertheless you must do even more, to ever grow out of your karma.
Sometimes, the loads are so heavy that you have to fight with yourself
to let arise no INNER ANGER.

In any case, you will have problems with a child that demands a lot of time,
effort, energy and grant you, because you have to learn the responsibility of
PARENTHOOD at a very deep level.

To further make your karma, the spouse is either not presents or she has so
LITTLE STRENGTH that you have to be at the same time FATHER and MOTHER for
the CHILD.

Whether in the positive or negative sense your feelings have to do with your family.
You constantly feel the need to break out and be free, but your past memories
of the imposed restraints never fully admit this.

You need almost your WHOLE ENERGY in order to unravel the network of
relationships, which you take out around you.

Perhaps you'll learn great conflicts with other family members in relation
to real estate. (comment OH YES INDEED !!!)

You have to LEARN TO LEAVE, (Twitchell lived at home until 1942 when he was
a 33 year old adult and still a single unmarried bachelor) that you will be
hopeless, of circumstances not to charge you for the needs of your family
are increasing constantly by itself, sometimes up to the point where they
are significantly larger than you actually have awaited.

(note Twitchell's other *family* and *child* was Eckankar .... the year
before he died he TRIED TO LEAVE (ala Spain) and then to LEAVE by trying to
Relinquish his self-created RESPONSIBILITY to Patti Simpson, and to also to
others -- see PS: A Post Script and Parting Shot for Patti Simpson Rivinus
by Doug Marman Tue Jul 12, 2011
http://spiritualdialogues.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=123&t=420&sid=c556b3320e47964d193f23297d46300c#p1368 )

Often, the actions of the members of your family surprise you because although
you can develop a strong outer world setting, you remain but ALMOST CHILDLIKE NAIVE when it comes to the feelings for the people standing near you.

Your soul has come with a rest of ferocity and exuberance in this life. Therefore you are NOT accustomed to appreciate the position of THE OTHER.
(eg Kirpal Singh, Cammille Ballowe, Drs Bluth, Mother, and on it goes )

This self-righteous setting also makes you to judge on your own actions. Therefore, your life is excessive.
You will very much attracted by the natural existence without any FORMALITIES,
(like filling out forms properly with a DOB and correct name and SSN)
and you STRIVE TO AVOID that which you conceive as being IMPOSED restrictions
UPON YOU. (when in truth it is all quite NORMAL and NATURAL impositions)

You're used to a free spirit and are desperately trying to get your sense of
freedom in all circumstances.
Whether you are married or not, the soul memory of your Bachelor existence
makes it IMPOSSIBLE to get you CLOSE to others.

You think that actions speak more than words, and you make your current life
to a kaleidoscope of rush activities.

You are always trying to do too many things, so that you no longer can see
the main topics of your life after all at once.

In previous lives, your actions were based on a large reservoir of nervous
and restless energy.

And yet you have NOT YET LEARNED your activities at all, to FOCUS YOUR ATTENTION on ONE area.

In this life, you are still looking for convenience (The Easy Way Out) and
you will find it as A VICTIM OF SHORT CIRCUITS that must be REPEATED.
(.... in relationships, in work, in business, in money, in health, and especially with Eckankar the greatest example of an "imaginatively created"
a SHORT CUT of your life )
Because you're not used to all the demands of society, trying to EVADE
YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES.

Did you mean that you, if you take all the Affairs and obligations as soon
as possible, already have the freedom is, which wants to take away the
society you. And therefore you spend the most time to free yourself.

What you DO NOT REALIZE is that every action entails an equal opposite reaction. Therefore YOU PRISON YOU actually more than previously.

Always, your nature is somehow originally.
If you are self-serving, so you do it in an innocent way.
If you come to social honor, you are so inexperienced that you ACT LIKE AN
» elephant in a porcelain shop « !!!

http://www.volker-doormann.org/ptwitchell.htm

Enjoy peeling this Onion and try not to cry too much. :-)

[Peetee Aitchei]

On Wednesday, 24 September 2014 09:15:52 UTC+10, Kinpa wrote:

Quoting: "the basic concept is the very same" and "its simply not that hard to understand"

If it is simple to understand then it is simple to explain.

So Kinpa, explain this same basic concept of which you speak in your own words.

If you honestly care about it, and can deal with it like a man.

Speak now or forever hold your peace! :-)