A color symbology
HeyokaBear
The intent is to embrace all who are called to a druidic path - and celebrate
differences.
grey
mystery
elders
"arch" druids
black white
shamanic/experiential priestly/tradition oriented
druidry druidry
------------------------------------------------------------------------
orange(crimson)/green/purple(violet) red(magenta)/yellow/blue(cyan)
(additive colors) (subtractive colors)
light radiated light absorbed
orange cyan
keepers of divination keepers of the law/tradition
green magenta
keepers of healing lore/crafts keepers of ceremony/ritual
purple yellow
keepers of dreams/art/communications keepers of history/stories
------------------------------------------------------------------------
brown
Earth
walkers
I see the colors in triads...so red/white/red will mean something different (but
related) to white/red/white...etc.
What color triad would you be? Choose one of white/black, and then either
color/white or black/color, or white or black/color/white or black. What would
the meaning be? Lets leave grey alone...as something earned by consensus after
years...
peace
bear
==============================================================
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines
to reply remove one "x" from poboxx
==============================================================
Searles O'Dubhain
synchronization with our lore? Tell us the tales that give them meaning in
our histories and our culture. How can we embrace them on a primal level?
How do they get related to the other arts that we already know? What
relevance do they have to the ways of Druids or the Druidic path? How are
they connected to the colors of the winds, the house of the Moon, the Ogham
and the powers?
Searles
"HeyokaBear" <drmn...@poboxx.com> wrote in message
news:drmngbear-6BAAB...@news.ne.mediaone.net...
Baumbuar
"HeyokaBear" <drmn...@poboxx.com> wrote in message
news:drmngbear-6BAAB...@news.ne.mediaone.net...
Searles O'Dubhain
If you don't want to (or can't) answer the questions, just say so. Better a
dead horse remembered than attempting to ride a *made up* horse without an
operator's manual.:-).
We do have beliefs and traditions already. Why do we want to invent other
ones? At least we can build a bridge to the prior belief if we are
introducing new ways (this assumes that the new ways have merit). If I
wanted to practice Newage methods of *make it up* based on anything and
everything, I'd be on alt.newage.druids.
Maybe a better way to go would have been a prior discussion or presentation
of the different things that Druids do. This could have been coupled with a
discussion of what colors mean to us and to our ancestors (pesky word our
but it just seems some appropriate when discussing a matter of ancestry).
Maybe ideas have an ancestry? Perhaps triads are presented within the scope
of cultural traditions and characteristics? Would a student better learn
something that seems relevant or would the student respond better to an
arbitrary choice? There I go again asking questions but I don't know of a
better way to get answers without making them up myself and there'd be
little point in that.
Searles
"HeyokaBear" <drmn...@poboxx.com> wrote in message
news:drmngbear-3194B...@news.ne.mediaone.net...
> In article <EUks5.14054$vc4....@news3.atl>, "Searles O'Dubhain"
> <odub...@mindspring.com> wrote:
<snip>
> Dear Searles
>
> Are these actual questions that you want answers to, or is this your way
to
> express your opinion that this cannot be integrated with your traditional
> knowledge?
>
> I would point out that asking questions that use the word 'our' and 'us'
implies
> that there is a group of fixed people and beliefs, with a fixed and
commonly
> accepted and known set of lore/beliefs/histories/cultures etc. In this
forum I
> can only share my perspective, and do not presume to speak for others
> (especially a group of "others" that do not exist).
>
> In fact, it seems to me that you could do such a job of offering ways of
> integrating - but instead seem inclined to dismiss the effort.
>
> If you are indeed looking for a complete presentation, answering all your
> questions, it seems that would require more information than can be easily
> presented in this forum.
>
> I had hoped to start a dialogue that could include the strengths of a
variety of
> approaches to druidry. Not another black and white back and forth. I find
that
> to be beating the proverbial dead horse.
>
> peace
> bear
HeyokaBear
What a shame that sharing of real experiences and the sense made of them is
discounted due to lack of footnotes. Also a shame that attempts at real dialogue
are interpreted by you as evidence of lack of real experience or integration.
Unlike you, I am not participating in this newsgroup to lecture on my path and
it's associated ways of understanding Life - I am here for *dialogue*.
*Everyone* here has their own beliefs and traditions. If you think dragging out
pieces of fragments of written lore translated from the irish and claiming to be
accurate accounts of oral lore hundreds of years old means you have a
non-fictional tradition, you are mistaken. It is clear to most here that while
there can be things learned from such an attempt, it is as much "made up" as any
so called "historical" novel, and in many ways pales in comparison to
legitimate, lived, here and now, experiences.
So despite the fact that the self-evidently "fictional" aspects of your so
called tradition is embraced and learned from here, and indeed valued as a means
for sharing and communication, your attitude towards the wisdom of others is
dismissive, unless it conforms to your personal mythology.
You (or others) may think this harsh - but it is true that putting down others
never really succeeds in propping yourself up.
You may not appreciate it (clearly) but those who post here for the most part
are directly sharing their paths, in terms of how they treat others, their
thoughts and comments, and by the sharing of personal experiences and aspects of
*their* own sense of tradition/meaning/mythology. That you seem to miss this
entire world of exchanges without footnotes is unfortunate, because to some (me
included) it is more real and alive than a lecture on what people 700 years ago
said people 1500 years ago believed about something.
You mentioned in a recent post about your life that you deliberately chose a
more difficult path, so as to avoid others putting you on a pedastal. I suggest
to you that you have not so chosen, and act as if you not only are a step above,
but with enough instruction, others might possibly step up and stand with you.
As for answering your questions, if you go to deja.com and search for
"HeyokaBear" you will find the answers all in one fell swoop. Otherwise email
me, and perhaps if I ever write it all down in one fell swoop, I will sell you
the book at cost. But from the tone of your responses, I suspect you really have
no interest in anything I have to say, really - or you wouldn't treat me (and
many others here) in the manner you do.
So blessings to you upon your path. Take care about the pedestal, it's a long
way back to earth.
peace
bear
In article <ruws5.246$qL5....@news3.atl>, "Searles O'Dubhain"
HeyokaBear
like to, at drmn...@pobox.com
peace
bear
In article <dErs5.488$5w5.2...@news.pacbell.net>, "Baumbuar"
Searles O'Dubhain
One reason I am here is to learn from others. Another reason I am here is
to seek truth. When I've learned something that serves both purposes,
naturally I attempt to share it. Real experiences are good to share and
even better when placed into a traditional perspective. That way great
amounts of prior knowledge can be useful to all. It is a great traditional
story that the wren was chosen the king of birds because he was able to fly
higher than the eagle. How this was done was by riding on the eagles back
until he had flown higher than all other birds. When the eagle could go no
higher, the wren flew higher still with his own contribution. It is this
ability to stand on the shoulders of giants that allowed Isaac Newton to
accomplish his own great works. When we fly on experience alone we are like
the wren without the eagle. We can fly but not very far or very high. It's
an obvious choice to make: are we the great eagle that can outfly all comers
or are we the wren that can fly just a little higher under the right
circumstances? Is a pursuit of knowledge better served by reinventing the
wheel or is it better served by using what has worked in the past and
learning from there? Unlike you, I am not in this newsgroup to reinvent
Drai/ocht and Druidry. I'm here to discover and recreate only when
necessary. Even then, I will attempt to fly on the backs of eagles before I
flap my own short wings.:-)
I think that studying the ancient lore and common knowledge will benefit
myself and others greatly when it comes to being a Filidh or a Druid. I'm
not so sure that poorly researched and made-up items are as valuable to us
in that quest. I do think everyone has a contribution to make within the
context of our own coimgne (common knowledge). Unlike you, I am unwilling
to scoff at the wisdom of the ancients in my own quest to be wise. I don't
ask that anyone follow my own choices in the matters before us but at least
I ask them to evaluate their own choices relative to what is already known
and researched. Why make something up if it can be guided by accurate and
well researched study? Reinventing from whole cloth is a pit and a trap in
which other groups have become mired and confused. Why should we do the
same based on your need to serve on the God of Experience? There are Three
Gods of Skill: Tradition, Experience and Inquiry, and I attempt to serve
them all wisely. May you also do the same.
I agree that personal attacks and ill-considered criticism are
counter-productive. I wonder if you have considered your own in wisdom? It
appears that emotion is now your guide rather than wisdom. I'm not on a
pedestal but I'll be damned if I will let someone foster what is not true
over what has stood the test of time without a question or two. If you
think that a defense of traditional knowledge and wisdom over invented
information places me on a pedestal then that is your own folly. A stopping
of truth and a bellowing of bulls does not support wisdom. A flapping of
wings does not get a wren to the top of the sky but some forethought and
traditional wisdom can do the job every time. So stop flapping and produce
some traditionally connected wisdom that shows a bit of forethought already.
Searles
"HeyokaBear" <drmn...@poboxx.com> wrote in message
news:drmngbear-89A60...@news.ne.mediaone.net...
> Dear Searles;
>
> What a shame that sharing of real experiences and the sense made of them
is
> discounted due to lack of footnotes. Also a shame that attempts at real
dialogue
> are interpreted by you as evidence of lack of real experience or
integration.
> Unlike you, I am not participating in this newsgroup to lecture on my path
and
> it's associated ways of understanding Life - I am here for *dialogue*.
>
<snip of a bunch of flapping and finger-pointing>
PJS
> Dear Searles;
>
> What a shame that sharing of real experiences and the sense made of them
is
> discounted due to lack of footnotes. Also a shame that attempts at real
dialogue
> are interpreted by you as evidence of lack of real experience or
integration.
> Unlike you, I am not participating in this newsgroup to lecture on my path
and
> it's associated ways of understanding Life - I am here for *dialogue*.
>
> *Everyone* here has their own beliefs and traditions. If you think
dragging out
> pieces of fragments of written lore translated from the irish and claiming
to be
> accurate accounts of oral lore hundreds of years old means you have a
> non-fictional tradition, you are mistaken. It is clear to most here that
while
> there can be things learned from such an attempt, it is as much "made up"
as any
> so called "historical" novel, and in many ways pales in comparison to
> legitimate, lived, here and now, experiences.
Fee fie fo funny! I smell the blood of a Fluffy Bunny!
--
The Ox is like the Bamboo
Floating on the Ocean.
Carman
Searles O'Dubhain <odub...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:ruws5.246$qL5....@news3.atl...
> Dear HeyokaBear,
>
> If you don't want to (or can't) answer the questions, just say so. Better
a
> dead horse remembered than attempting to ride a *made up* horse without an
> operator's manual.:-).
>
> We do have beliefs and traditions already. Why do we want to invent other
> ones? At least we can build a bridge to the prior belief if we are
> introducing new ways (this assumes that the new ways have merit). If I
> wanted to practice Newage methods of *make it up* based on anything and
> everything, I'd be on alt.newage.druids.
awww
now you're just fooling with me !
there is no alt.newage.druids
i just checked, thinking
"ooh that sounds like a fun ng"
but anyway
as i said i don't consider myself to be a druid
so i can think what i like
and anyway i agree with Bear
for some reasons following
> Maybe a better way to go would have been a prior discussion or
presentation
> of the different things that Druids do. This could have been coupled with
a
> discussion of what colors mean to us and to our ancestors (pesky word our
> but it just seems some appropriate when discussing a matter of ancestry).
i think colours are important
and as far as i am aware, without doing a lot of research
i think is proven that colours affect how we think and feel
haven't they painted Jails pink in some places to calm high risk prisoners?
Also as far as i am aware certain colours were important to ancestors
had significant meanings in weavings and artworks
there were certain clays and dies that were quite rare and sought after,
therefor the expression of their colours, significant in many aspects,
especially artworks
The same with precious gems and stone....which still lives on today
(eg ... the desire of modern woman to get that HUGE diamond on ring finger
hehe)
> Maybe ideas have an ancestry?
i think so
can be built on added to in positive ways
can be diffused
etc etc etc
funny you should mention that
it was a topic of conversation last evening in our household
i was talking to a young fella about the value of
sharing his thoughts and ideas with positive people
who will build on them
rather than take them down
> Perhaps triads are presented within the
scope
> of cultural traditions and characteristics? Would a student better learn
> something that seems relevant or would the student respond better to an
> arbitrary choice?
either / or
perhaps sometimes arbitrary choice has a habit of
becoming useful at future time
?
> There I go again asking questions but I don't know of a
> better way to get answers without making them up myself and there'd be
> little point in that.
is making up our own answers more relevant, to our own experience,
knowledge, lifestyle?
questions are good though
gets others thinking
questions can be like seeds
might germinate of their own accord
depends on the cultivation
the tending, the environment
and i liked Bears things about colours
because i think it has relevance
and besides i reckon our All Blacks
look like Babes in Black
i doubt they'd have the same appeal and i doubt the Haka
would look as masculine and virile
in hot pink.....or lavender
however i do hasten to add
on their bad days ,
when they play like a bunch of girls
it makes me wonder
carman
Carman
Searles O'Dubhain <odub...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:1q_s5.1883$%h1.2...@news1.atl...
> That's a mighty fine tale you've told us there Carmen of a preaching
Druid
> and his flock.
hehe
cute
no i wasn't telling a tale about a Druid preaching and his frock
but if you have it inside yourself to take it that way
well... what can i say?
i was merely implying that the shadowy foreboding indicated in the post
was reminiscent of those who might feel inclined to engender
such pending doom in the audience that might hasten them
to seek solace in locating adequate protection
from forces .... unknown
>I was only putting forth a word or two to the wise but you
> can take it or leave it at that.
fair enough,
there are various options as to how one might reply to such a post
i merely took the option of enquiry, as to whether i accurately read it
just call me 'Carman of the enquiring mind'
( enquiry seems a fairly safe option...ng's can contain such pot holes, a
quickstep here and a quickstep there, avoiding little pot holes, quite the
merry little dance )
>Maybe you'll never have need of my
> cautions and it was all perhaps a tempest in a teapot at that?
oh i'm sure everyone has need to be cautious
I'm not sure whether i'd need your cautions
i think i've got by without them thus far
however
i am generally accepting of cautions delivered in _appropriate_ manner from
those whom are discerned as reliable....after reasonable length of time
i note you didn't take up the challenge of replying to any of the
issues i raised
for example this one here
"perhaps part of the certain limitations one accepts when taking on the
aspects of "druidry" ?"
is it not true that when the seeker chooses to firmly dedicate to a
religion, that religion often comes encumbent with certain restrictions?
whether that be self imposed respect, newly found from the discovery of
certain sacredness or other certain restrictions ? that the "stonehead" may
be otherwise unaware of
which relates to your comment:-
"I've sensed that
intention in times of encounter with the power of Nature and in the presence
of deities"
for example a mountain biker unaware of 'deity' may charge thru the
wilderness in blissful abandon
however
once taking up the charge of acting in ways respectful to the deity of say
'forest' ... there might be certain restriction
be it self imposed ot otherwise
that would begin to limit the enthusiasms of the said mountain biker
(not that i am mountain biker...i'm speaking of a general persuit that has
no emotional attachment...unless of course there are mountain bikers in this
ng, which might start an ng war?)
> After all,
> it hasn't happened to you yet has it?
hard to know for sure....it might have....it might not have
depends, perhaps, on perspective
and also depends on what you refer to
your reference is somewhat ambiguous
are we still reflecting on rapid rivers and rafts?
>Nor might it be likely or so it
> seems.
depends what you are speaking of,
there is little clarity among here Searles
carman
> Searles
>
> "Carman" <ca...@wave.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:8p1m32$k1h$1...@news.wave.co.nz...
> > Ahem
> > Pardon me for being so bold as to suggest
> > that, to a person just reading this thread in passing, it appears
> > that the whole of life is dangling in the balance and
> > perhaps *we* the Non-Druid, should all be quaking in our boots lest we
> > are taken over by devils..... or tossed about in the strengthy whim of
the
> > great Earth Mother
> > is that perhaps part of Druidry?
> <snip>
>
>
>
>
Teacup
"Searles O'Dubhain" <odub...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:16ys5.293$qL5....@news3.atl...
[....]
> It is a great traditional
> story that the wren was chosen the king of birds because he was able to
fly
> higher than the eagle. How this was done was by riding on the eagles back
> until he had flown higher than all other birds. When the eagle could go
no
> higher, the wren flew higher still with his own contribution.
I like wrens. A wren once liked me enough to trust me with the location of
her nest. But I've always thought the wren in the story was a dishonest
little fraud....
> It is this
> ability to stand on the shoulders of giants that allowed Isaac Newton to
> accomplish his own great works.
Perhaps so.....but from what I know of Sir Isaac the person--difficult and
driven and self-absorbed--he would hardly have viewed it so.
> [.....]Is a pursuit of knowledge better served by reinventing the
> wheel or is it better served by using what has worked in the past and
> learning from there?
Personally, I would vote for balance.....constantly reinventing the wheel is
an unproductive waste of effort.....but only ever traveling the known roads
is stagnation and spiritual death.
I still think that wren was a little fraud.......
Teacup
Teacup
"Searles O'Dubhain" <odub...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:UPTs5.2472$qL5....@news3.atl...
> Dear Stacey,
>
> I'm sorry all of this inquiry and contention is hurting your brain. [...]
> I hate
> being a hardass or even being perceived that way, but I'd mourn the loss
of
> truth and wisdom even more.
>
> Searles
This begins to vaguely remind me of the quote on another thread about how
fundies seem to think that God can't accomplish anything without their help.
Truth would still be Truth....whether anyone here subscribed to it or
not......
Teacup
Teacup
"Searles O'Dubhain" <odub...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:1q_s5.1883$%h1.2...@news1.atl...
> That's a mighty fine tale you've told us there Carmen of a preaching
Druid
> can take it or leave it at that. Maybe you'll never have need of my
> cautions and it was all perhaps a tempest in a teapot at that? After all,
> it hasn't happened to you yet has it? Nor might it be likely or so it
> seems.
>
> Searles
Ya know, I've read through this several times, Searles, and I *still* don't
see why there was a need for you to be so condescending. But then....I
rarely see a need for condescension, so maybe it's just me.....
Teacup
IBpixie
Elaine Stutt wrote:
>
> Yes, but in a mixed group, a certain amount of weeds are the price
> of free expression among differant factions.
one man's weds are another's flowers :)
pix (just hoping that golden rod is NOT someone's favorite
ACHOOOOOOOOOOO)
Searles O'Dubhain
heard without an attentive ear and an open mind? Who is the judge and who
are the judged?
Searles
"Teacup" <yo...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:6pkt5.23794$p5.8...@newsread03.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Searles O'Dubhain
reference for you if it'd help clarify my meaning or my veracity for you.
The lesson of the wren's story was not in admiration for its truth but for
the way that it so cleverly manipulated its surrounding to gain an unfair
advantage. This is a less that many of us learn almost daily on the internet
from watching the wrens around us. It's lesson seems to rank almost as high
as that of the cuckoo who accepts hospitality and leaves behind it an egg.
Searles
"Teacup" <yo...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:cHjt5.23715$p5.8...@newsread03.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
<snip>
> > It is this
> > ability to stand on the shoulders of giants that allowed Isaac Newton to
> > accomplish his own great works.
>
> Perhaps so.....but from what I know of Sir Isaac the person--difficult and
> driven and self-absorbed--he would hardly have viewed it so.
>
<snip>
Searles O'Dubhain
would be too grim? Maybe I didn't think they were condescending at all but a
short word to say that I didn't agree at all with the way things were being
characterized? But that's only in one eye and yours is another.
Searles
"Teacup" <yo...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:axkt5.23810$p5.8...@newsread03.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Elaine Stutt
I love Golden Rod but usually at the side of the road. I am known
for nurturing pretty weeds in my garden. I will admit, however,
that I usually pull them before they can spread all those seeds.
Elaine
HeyokaBear
(Elaine Stutt) wrote:
(cringing as a man, weed, and bear)
HeyokaBear
(Elaine Stutt) wrote:
> HeyokaBear (drmn...@poboxx.com) writes:
> > In article <8p6q0t$2tp$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca>, cu...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
> > (Elaine Stutt) wrote:
> >>
> >> I love Golden Rod but usually at the side of the road. I am known
> >> for nurturing pretty weeds in my garden. I will admit, however,
> >> that I usually pull them before they can spread all those seeds.
> >>
> >> Elaine
> >
> > (cringing as a man, weed, and bear)
>
> Heyoka Bear, you wuss. It's lucky we were only taking gardening and
> not farming. Now ( Christian referance warning - beep beep - )
> I remember, at Easter the ladies on the altar guild would take
> scissors and carefully snip the stamens off the white Easter Lilies.
> It was to keep the yellow pollen from staining the pure white but
> I thought it was terrible symbolism if Christ was supposed to be all
> man. Oh well. It's probably a habit common to flower arrangers of
> all sorts.
>
> Elaine
Ok, fine...if you want to snip buds here. Next thing you know you'll be talking
about making the land fertile, and waving a sickle, and pointing us guys at
cornrows or something. And then... :::snick::::
bear
(eyes all gone big and round)
IBpixie
Elaine Stutt wrote:
>
>scissors and carefully snip the stamens off the white Easter Lilies.
> It was to keep the yellow pollen from staining the pure white
perhaps that was the symbology they used to explain it.. but i'll bet a
few jelly beans that even they knew that those stamen can cause horrible
wheezing etc in humans LOL.. bet more than a few were pixies.. hehehe
pix (who is growing achooos all over the place this season FARKLE)
heali...@my-deja.com
Please let us also not forget, as Elaine pointed out, that said charter
does Not exclude participation of non-Druids in druidic discussions. I
personally have enjoyed the input of fx, jjb the English scholarly
fellow who quotes Reginald Perrin. Searles does sometimes come off as
Druider-than-thou, which is unfortunate and not very inviting to those
of lesser conviction. Niall-cloghan sometimes forgets which ng he's in
and what reception he's likely to engender, it appears. OK, so droves
of Druids "piss off", and are pissed off, and need to cool off, as does
the northern hemisphere at the moment. Original charter is a good thing
to repost at this time. If you feel like thumping a Bible, let's thump
that one.
healingline (indelible RDNA)
In article <20000904193811...@ng-fi1.aol.com>,
pra...@aol.com (Praeses) wrote:
> << Subject: Re: A color symbology
> From: "Searles O'Dubhain" odub...@mindspring.com
> Date: Mon, Sep 4, 2000 1:19 PM
> Message-id: <GtRs5.2227$qL5....@news3.atl>
>
> **snip**
>
> Here's what the original charter said as written by Anthony Thompson
> (as found at http://www.uoguelph.ca/~bmyers/druid.html):
>
> "Alt.religion.druid exists as a forum for discussion of the mysticism,
> history, archeology, and literature of druids (often related to the
Celtic
> peoples of northern European history: the Britons or Gauls, and their
> religious or shamanic social elite). While there is some debate as to
the
> historical survival of druids or information concerning them, the
newsgroup
> will include all manner of speculation regarding the practice and
theory
> surrounding druids of ancient and modern times. " >>
>
> **snip**
>
> Thank you! I was wondering when someone would finally get around to
this!
>
> How long would anyone last on a Hindu NG claiming that eating meat is
an option
> validated by individual experience?
>
> Why do you think the Native Americans are so pissed off at wannabees
that they
> keep their ritual doors closed to outsiders?
>
> These things are worth defending. The spirit of the Celtic peoples,
past,
> present, and future, demands it.
>
> Let these wannabees call themselves something else. Maybe they'll opt
for
> "Anasazi" and disappear.
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
heali...@my-deja.com
the forest and nobody is there to hear it but a bunch of other trees,
with a few birds and suirrels and a few hundred thousand invertebrates,
did it really fall? What IS your answer??
healingline (taking a break from seminary)
In article <2Rmt5.2455$Xm.1...@news1.atl>,
Searles O'Dubhain
falls. Otherwise there is not enough known about the tree or the forest
from your statement to say for sure. One can always say that it is probable
that a tree will eventually fall in the forest.
Searles
<heali...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8pbdj8$d3b$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Kevin Jones
> > Why do you think the Native Americans are so pissed off at wannabees
> that they
> > keep their ritual doors closed to outsiders?
Well, that's only part of the answer. There's two other bits to it. Firstly
native American religion was, I gather, illegal to practise until about 20
years ago. Of course, if you said you spoke to the Ancestors, then you could
also be put in a loony bin - speaking to invisible people was obviously a
sign of schizophrenia. I know of definite cases where that happened.
Then there's a fairly strong attitude amongst some that the white people
have appropriated everything else, and they don't feel like having them
appropriate what they feel is most valuable to them - their culture and
especially their religion. It's basically intensely private - in any case,
some of the cultural attitudes might give the average westerner mental
hiccups.
In fact, having had a few chats on the subject, it is not possible to follow
it and understand it as a native American would do unless you have the
cultural attitudes, and you won't have those unless you are brought up in
the culture. That also includes the language. Shouldn't come as a surprise
that - religion is an aspect of culture and it will change if it is
transplanted into a different culture and language. The way of thinking
about things changes.
Kevin
Carman
C. Leigh Nic Fhionghaile <topa...@dreamscape.com> wrote in message
news:sr5ojm...@corp.supernews.com...
> Dear Searles:
>
> I think you're wasting your time trying to breathe traditional
Druidism
> into NewAgers who call themselves Druids but are actually something else.
>
> I went whitewater rafting today. I did not think I knew more than the
> guide, though I had some idea of how the rapids should be travelled. But,
> having never been whitewater rafting before, I did everything he told me
to
> do to the best of my ability, and I survived, with only one near-drowning
> mishap. :-) I did not experiment or try to tell the guide what to do; that
> would have been the ultimate in foolishness when my life (and the life of
> six others) was at stake over every rocky rapid. I tried to hold with the
> experience of the one who knew what he was doing, the one who had gone
> before many times and knew the river.
>
> Just as I would not trust my life to my own inexperience on a raft in
> the middle of a swift and treacherous river, I won't trust my life as a
> Druid to anyone but the guide of ancestral knowledge to keep me on course
> and safe from being towed under the deceptive whitewater.
>
> TopazOwl
> She Who Is Thankful to Still Be Alive Tonight
>
>
> --
> **********************************************
> I understand the unicorn's song,
> And my own is made of owls and flowers,
> I have made my voice of night and time,
> My shadow goes before me like a spear.
> -- from "Taliesin and the Dark"
> ***********************************************
this seems to be a thread that is evolving in an interesting way
like many threads i have seen in a myriad of ng's
what starts out to be reasonable and innoccuous can erode to seeming
conflict of beliefs
generally i run and hide from the unwanted / un-needed complications of
those threads
however
it appeared from the outset to be a reasonably innoccuous post regarding
perceptions of colour,
because colour is so crucial and interesting, without it life would be dull
the thread could evolve an
enriching dialogue
and yet
has connotations of a potentially deceptive situation involving rapids &
white water (big smile)
ng's are such interesting places to observe
having seen all sorts of potential 'life threatening', and over exaggerated
situations evolve out of various ng topics, i'm not saying your post is
either of those, just drawing on various observations
and that is what makes this thread so interesting
almost like one needs to be guided (by a competent mentor) through the rocky
rapids of historic beliefs concerning colour
lest the situation .... involving the colours.... become deceptive
(still smiling) i love it !
almost like you are suggesting that all comers to the conversation need to
be aligned with a particular traditional mentor concerning "Druidic" beliefs
about colour, before proceeding to converse
lest one be labelled a (gasp, dare i say it ) 'New Ager'
i don't know i might have misinterpretted the dialogue but it seems to
include overtones that are somewhat more serious than need be
and doubtful whether there will be inspired commentary under wieght of the
serious nature that is possibly implied (or perhaps misread by me)
althought the vision of rushing waters splashing over rocks
with echos of the probable sound
and surge of exhiliration imbibed in the spray and cool air rushing past was
rather inspirational .. and ahhhh refreshing
really i think we should all just relax, retain the situation in earthy
proportion
and i think we should paint this ng a lovely shade of sunshine & buttercup
yellow
just to brighten it up when the going gets tough
carman
heali...@my-deja.com
Kevin Jones <1006...@compuserve.com> wrote:
> heali...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
Ooops there Kevin, Praeses said this, not moi.
healingline
heali...@my-deja.com
Searles, you left out the question you previously didn't answer in your
reply, above.
so: How is it that truth is heard, without an attentive ear and an
open mind? That is, the truth of a falling tree?
My answer would be, it doesn't have to be my ear, Or yours, or an
earthworm's whatever it senses with. The center of your universe may
be between your two feet, but between my two feet is a whole other
center. Thank goodness I'm not more central than thou. I am agreeing
with Teacup, okay?
healingline (right down the middle)
Searles O'Dubhain
truth that Druids can find by putting away mine or yours and living it.
That's down the center *AND* around the edges. The mystery is that all
these centers are connected and it takes an imbas experience to really know
that.
Searles
<heali...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8pc5jd$99g$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
<snip>
heali...@my-deja.com
I rephrased it with another metaphor, you chose to answer literally in
order to dodge my rephrasing. So then, slippery Searles, I am required
to restore your original query, which you had snipped away, and now you
take exception to my answering for you,that we philosophers are not
needed for Truth to exist quite well without us; you take refuge in
Imbas the great Equalizer.
Let's try this once again:
"How is it that the gods do accomplish their works? How is it
Who is the judger and who is the judged?"
What the heck are you trying to say, o Searles, and what is
your own answer?
hlglnrdna
lu...@pacifica.edu
didn't wanna lose my nitial train of thought. So if someone else has
already said this -- especially if s/he said it better -- I apologize for
being redundant.
Searles: I believe that research, respect for the lessons learned in the
past, and a scientific approach are tools to a complete and functional
Druidism. They are absolutely essential and cannot be done without.
However, the same is to be said of new ideas and interesting new
perspectives on druidry. They. can. not. be. done. without.! How on earth
are we going to build for ourselves a living faith if we have no faith in
those who are living it?
Think about it for a minute, Searles. You're so obviously, rabidly,
intensely *thoughtful* --it's one of the things I think is totally neato
about you-- that I know you won't just pass this over: Druidry is a
*reconstructed* path. That means we have a responsibility to make the
fullest use possible of history, archaeology, the recorded wisdoms of our
ancestors, and above all a responsible, thoughtful approach to our review,
evaluation, collection and use of all these things. Only these can give
would-be druids a good, solid place to stand and begin walking the druid
path.
But they won't build a living faith, Searles. For one thing, all the
evidences of the past are dead. Mute. Not subject to dialogic
interpretation, not with themselves, not with their authors. (Among
*living* scholars, sure, but none of these has the kind of everyday
connection to the evidences and wisdoms of the past that you and I do with
the material and spiritual things of the present.)
What's more, everything evolves. Everything changes. The ancient druid
faith changed while it was alive -- so not even our dead evidences and
wisdoms are a completely static platform to stand on -- and our
reconstructed faith must allow new ideas and new inspirations. I think
that is not an unreasonable view.
So it pains me to see Bear bring up a new idea, founded upon his own
experience of living the druid way, and watch you treat it like trash.
That's not druidry, Searles. I am very new to paganism, to druidry, and to
this newsgroup, but I know that this isn't druidry. You didn't respond at
all to Bear. You reacted to your own prejudices, and I can say that with
some faith in my own correctness because, Searles, your prejudices are
quite visible on this newsgroup thanks to the very depth and volume of
your contributions to it.
Now what I think you ought to have done, sir, is that you ought to have
either asked a few SINCERE questions -- when Bear bridled and questioned
your sincerity, your response proved his trepidation well-founded -- or
offered a few SINCERE comments either linking or disproving any link
between Bear's color scheme and the ancient wisdoms -- or, as my beloved
mother says, "You should have kept your damn trap shut if you didn't have
anything nice or worthwhile to say."
Personally (and this is not addressed any longer to Searles, but is a
response to this controversy between himself and Bear) I think that we
need the evidence and the history and the traditional wisdom of Druidry to
be Druids -- but we can't really walk the druid path with the corpse of
ancient Druidry nailed to our backs, with its dead arms dragging up the
dust to choke our voices, with its dead hair hanging in our eyes, with the
clatter of its bones deafening us... so that we can neither see nor hear
nor speak the truth of what is going on in our lives as, living, we walk
the druid path. That's my $0.02 and I stand by it.
--Luis
In article <alBs5.517$qL5....@news3.atl>, "Searles O'Dubhain"
<odub...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> I completely agree that colors are an important part of any perceptual
> activity. Indo-European and Celtic works are full of color usage, reference
> and symbolism. My only beef with this particular posting was that it took
> absolutely no account of what Druidic tradition had to say about colors. It
> also did not explain itself very well in terms of why one should choose
> these particular colors that have hip with tradition and very little to do
> with current discussions within the newsgroup. As colors go, these came out
> of the blue.:-)
>
> Is making things up better? Depends on whether its a group, and individual
> or a cultural expression I suppose. What works for you and I might not work
> for our ancestors, our culture or our partners in this enterprise of ours.
>
> Searles
>
> "Carman" <ca...@wave.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:8oug4b$q46$1...@news.wave.co.nz...
> >
> <snip>
> >
> > awww
> > now you're just fooling with me !
> > there is no alt.newage.druids
> > i just checked, thinking
> > "ooh that sounds like a fun ng"
> > but anyway
> > as i said i don't consider myself to be a druid
> > so i can think what i like
> > and anyway i agree with Bear
> > for some reasons following
> >
> > > Maybe a better way to go would have been a prior discussion or
> > presentation
> > > of the different things that Druids do. This could have been coupled
> with
> > a
> > > discussion of what colors mean to us and to our ancestors (pesky word
> our
> > > but it just seems some appropriate when discussing a matter of
> ancestry).
> >
> > i think colours are important
> > and as far as i am aware, without doing a lot of research
> > i think is proven that colours affect how we think and feel
> <snip>
Searles O'Dubhain
answers, I suggest you work on it. I can't figure it out for you. You have
to do that for yourself or not. Insults and being snide are obviously not
even close.
I will however, make one last attempt.
The gods accomplish their works through clarity of will and spirit within
the place of creation that can be obtained by those who seek truth within
imbas.
Truth can be heard with an attentive ear and an open mind or not at all.
We are each the judge and the judged for we must travel beyond illusion and
delusion to truth itself.
This is the third time that I've answered you. You'll have to go it alone
on these questions from here on out. The real answers are up to you and not
for me to supply to you.
Searles
<heali...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8pcb4i$fdr$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
<snip>
Searles O'Dubhain
sought. What I have said and asked is that these new ideas and
perspectives be related and connected to what we already do and our
traditions. You must not have read that part of my messages.
What I've always said and maintained is that a Druid find knowledge through
tradition, EXPERIENCE and INQUIRY. This quest for knowledge and truth,
eventually leads one to IMBAS. It's not found or maintained by any single
one of these forms of knowledge and wisdom but by ALL OF THEM.
Searles
<lu...@pacifica.edu> wrote in message
news:luis-08090...@192.168.1.197...
<snip>
>
> However, the same is to be said of new ideas and interesting new
> perspectives on druidry. They. can. not. be. done. without.! How on earth
> are we going to build for ourselves a living faith if we have no faith in
> those who are living it?
>
> Think about it for a minute, Searles. You're so obviously, rabidly,
> intensely *thoughtful* --it's one of the things I think is totally neato
> about you-- that I know you won't just pass this over: Druidry is a
> *reconstructed* path. That means we have a responsibility to make the
> fullest use possible of history, archaeology, the recorded wisdoms of our
> ancestors, and above all a responsible, thoughtful approach to our review,
> evaluation, collection and use of all these things. Only these can give
> would-be druids a good, solid place to stand and begin walking the druid
> path.
>
<snip>
Carman
Kevin Jones <1006...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:39B96ECA...@compuserve.com...
Well i can see your point
and i'm wondering some parallel things
if the homeland of Druid is in the Celtic Isles
how can one be Druid in the US....?
or anywhere else for that matter?
There is a person here who says he is kiwi-druid
i guess that is possible because i know in Dunedin there is high population
of scots descent...so it could be feasible when relatively close to heavily
Scots populated area one could possibly be supported in following a
druid-like path
I am thinking that if my husband and i migrated to say czechoslovakia
we'd still be of Maori origin
we could still keep the culture alive to a point, between ourselves
but to physically survive in Czech. republic we'd have to adopt what was
needed to live in that social organisation...ie language, lifestyle etc
But it would be very hard to retain a lot of cultural mores in a sea of
nationalities that have nothing to do with our own.
with no Maori community for support and contact,
it would be exceedingly hard to retain that sense of identity and even
harder to keep the offspring constant to the culture.
Do people who claim to be follow a Druid path, in foreign lands stay close
to original Celtics or something?
because that is the only way I can imagine it truly working.
I also find it difficult to get used to the idea of learning Celtic-Druid
culture on internet.
It seems to me it would take more like 40 years than 20 years to capture the
same amount of knowledge.
oh i don't know
it's all too confussing to contemplate
carman
Daibhi and Lyn
>
> Well i can see your point
> and i'm wondering some parallel things
> if the homeland of Druid is in the Celtic Isles
> how can one be Druid in the US....?
> or anywhere else for that matter?
IF that argument is to hold true may I post a corrollary?
IF Jerusalem is the home of the Jew, how can there be a Jew in the US? or
anywhere else for that matter?
To answer, it is called evolution and disaporanism. When the variants of
the damned armies of Rome came in and wanted to 'civilize' Britain, then
Padraig came through with his cross and wafers (sorry but I'm not agree
at you, I'm pissed at them), Draoi had to fold to their conversion
(though some are said to have went gladly, I've no doubt, there's always
a few) or die, pretty strong argument I'd say. Thus many, I contend, fled
into the dense surrounding forrests of Ireland, England, and Wales to
escape the depredations that were being performed by sod-busters from
Rome as well as abandon villages to the wood to get away from Padraig's
folk as well. I further contend that a great many of these folk were
draoi and as a result the religion may have thinned, and spread. It also
multiplied as it became a family taught tradition in many ways. Thus the
Druid role of judge was given over to the Brehon, like it ever left :^),
and the role of the Filidh (and the Brehon) remained(s) and to this day
in both the Irish, Welsh, Scots, and Brit countrysides. It would
therefore be natural that when the Great Potato Famine of Ireland struck
and such a great exodus took place from the island, there would have been
some there that were of the heritage and blood. However, how closely they
had followed their forebears remained to be seen.
> There is a person here who says he is kiwi-druid
> i guess that is possible because i know in Dunedin there is high population
> of scots descent...so it could be feasible when relatively close to heavily
> Scots populated area one could possibly be supported in following a
> druid-like path
>
> I am thinking that if my husband and i migrated to say czechoslovakia
> we'd still be of Maori origin
> we could still keep the culture alive to a point, between ourselves
> but to physically survive in Czech. republic we'd have to adopt what was
> needed to live in that social organisation...ie language, lifestyle etc
> But it would be very hard to retain a lot of cultural mores in a sea of
> nationalities that have nothing to do with our own.
> with no Maori community for support and contact,
> it would be exceedingly hard to retain that sense of identity and even
> harder to keep the offspring constant to the culture.
>
> Do people who claim to be follow a Druid path, in foreign lands stay close
> to original Celtics or something?
That would be for the individual, for myself, I follow as a matter of
choice, not as a matter to keep my Celticness close. That's a given. :^)
> because that is the only way I can imagine it truly working.
> I also find it difficult to get used to the idea of learning Celtic-Druid
> culture on internet.
It seems to be the quickest and best way to disperse information, however
I would agree that at least once a year whatever group you are working
with should hold a Dáil to permit folk to gather and meet, talk, get
drunk, dance, cry, and feast. We of the Summerlands may be a disperse
group in that some of us live in the North, some out on the West Coast,
some here in the East and South. But we do manage to get together at
least annually for a Crinniú le na Clann, or Gathering of the Clans. We
have met the past two years in East TN in the Roan Mountain area and
enjoyed ourselves immensly. Last year for the first, there were around 40
of us there, may not sound like a great deal in a community of 200+ but
when you account that that is folk who made a committment for the FIRST
such meet. This year the meet dropped to about half due mostly to timing,
at least some think. That may be the situation, still we had a great
time, a wonderful feast, and a piper to entertain. So it can happen, and
it all started here on the (hiss) internet. :^)
> It seems to me it would take more like 40 years than 20 years to capture the
> same amount of knowledge.
> oh i don't know
> it's all too confussing to contemplate
> carman
We're a disperse bunch, but we try to accomplish what our fathers did by
similar means, I am the elected leader of our grove, however, part of
that grove has moved to mid-FL, the another part is getting ready to move
there, we are preparing to move to Alabama. So I will start over and work
on building another garrán there.
Knowledge is like a flowering tree,
with roots, deep, drinking of the waters,
with leaves, green and reaching for the sun,
But unless we have the sun in its time,
the water in its time,
then knowledge becomes folly.
Daibhaid
Kevin Jones
> The center of your universe may
> be between your two feet, but between my two feet is a whole other
> center.
Exactly - and a whole different world.
Kevin
Luis Felipe Morales
<odub...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Luis, I have never said that new ideas and new perspectives should not be
> sought. What I have said and asked is that these new ideas and
> perspectives be related and connected to what we already do and our
> traditions. You must not have read that part of my messages.
>
So, elder brother, you restate your position and your desires for druid
practice in general and thread-submissions to the NG in specific. Well
enough. But now I must ask YOU whether you read MY post through or not.
What I'd like to know --what I hoped I was asking-- is, how do you defend
the ethics of responding to a post that is counter to your position and
your desires in such a haughty(-seeming), dismissive, and in some parts
actually rude manner? I am sure that you are very clear on what you
believe druidry should be, but you weren't too good, this time around, at
being respectful of someone else's point of view.
Here, I'll quote the bit you seem to've missed:
<<Now what I think you ought to have done, sir, is that you ought to have
either asked a few SINCERE questions -- when Bear bridled and questioned
your sincerity, your response proved his trepidation well-founded -- or
offered a few SINCERE comments either linking or disproving any link
between Bear's color scheme and the ancient wisdoms -- or, as my beloved
mother says, "You should have kept your damn trap shut if you didn't have
anything nice or worthwhile to say.">>
So? It's not as if I think you need to apologize, necessarily, or say
anything else, really, but I did hope you would read that part.
My personal bottom line: Whatever you've said or asked or maintained, you
can't MAKE people agree with you. And even when they don't, as long as
they're not being rude to you, you've got no call being nasty to them.
(Telling me that I didn't read your post has a certain chutzpah behind it,
too, elder brother.)
--Luis
Carman
Searles O'Dubhain <odub...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:65ku5.14191$qL5....@news3.atl...
> Luis, I have never said that new ideas and new perspectives should not be
> sought. What I have said and asked is that these new ideas and
> perspectives be related and connected to what we already do and our
> traditions. You must not have read that part of my messages.
>
> What I've always said and maintained is that a Druid find knowledge
through
> tradition, EXPERIENCE and INQUIRY. This quest for knowledge and truth,
> eventually leads one to IMBAS. It's not found or maintained by any single
> one of these forms of knowledge and wisdom but by ALL OF THEM.
>
> Searles
and yet you reject the inquiry of those who approach this ng who do not
classify themselves as "Druid"
I made several inquirys which were quite clearly rebuffed.
and so I tend to wonder if indeed 'Druids' do not at least proselytise, it
seems apparent that you may even be going as far as the other extreme, of
rebuffal. almost like elitists perhaps?
however rebuffal can be quite the learning curve
often cause for further inquiry
often cause for one to seek their own answers
yes can be rather the motivator...for some
can also check the participants ability to stay on a certain path
although i don't know quite what this propenisyt for peoples to be seeking a
'path'
(i would think peoples to be clear and happy with the path they already
walk)
It would appear, with you at least, from surface appearance there may be no
*cross* dialogue.....only 'cross' dialogue
oh well you get that everywhere i suppose, happens in all walks of life.
carman
Carman
<heali...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8pbdj8$d3b$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> That certainly is an interesting question Searles. If the tree falls in
> the forest and nobody is there to hear it but a bunch of other trees,
> with a few birds and suirrels and a few hundred thousand invertebrates,
> did it really fall? What IS your answer??
> healingline (taking a break from seminary)
>
well i like that question
and i don't have a 'druid' answer
but the question is being posed in a way that is human-centric
you say there is nobody there to hear it
there are lots of bodies to hear it
there are
"a bunch of other trees,
with a few birds and squirrels and a few hundred thousand invertebrates,"
yes it fell
yes the *loss* would be felt
and also the *gain* would be felt
the tree participated and contributed a great deal to the forest while it
was standing
offered shelter, protection, nourishment sustained life and participated in
the union with other trees during that life
when it falls it still does the same
offers shelter, protection, nourishment sustains life and participates in
the union with other trees during that decay.
most everyone i know also know that certain trees enjoy to grow together
and so when the tree falls there will be loss...the root and canopy space
inhabited by that tree will no longer be there to support the others
standing tall beside it
but that root space becomes available to new seedlings who stand in the
shadow of that tree
as the tree becomes part of the forest floor in a new way, it will help to
nourish the new seedlings, until they can stand straight and tall among the
tall forest ones.
and there's lots more
but i have some things to do which take precedence
Now i will apologise to Searles in advance
because i see Searles that you have said in an alternative post
" What I have said and asked is that these new ideas and
perspectives be related and connected to what we already do and our
traditions. "
i have no idea what you do in your traditions
and i am not seeking to add my perspective _to_ *your* tradition
I am merely putting my perspective forward
and i like to talk about trees birds forest floor
and all that stuff
carman
Searles O'Dubhain
that people who post on this newsgroup do more or less than is stated in its
charter. The charter is the reason why the newsgroup is here and also why
most of us are here as well (at least that's my assumption).
I certainly hope that you are here for "discussion of the mysticism,
history, archeology, and literature of druids." If you're not here for
those reasons, why are you here? Doing so is not proselytizing. It is acting
in accordance with the charter. No one is looking for converts here but I
certainly hope there are still a view minds left that can see clearly.
Searles
"Carman" <ca...@wave.co.nz> wrote in message
news:8pe9tl$477$1...@news.wave.co.nz...
<snip>
Searles O'Dubhain
see how questioning a post is viewed as being haughty? I see it as being
inquiry. If I already know the answers to the questions that I've asked
makes no difference to the answers that could have been given by Bear (or
anyone else) but were not actually given until days later in an entirely
different thread. If I have caused even one person to better understand the
connection between experience and tradition by using the art of inquiry I am
satisfied. I'm not here to run for office or even to be popular (though
that'd also be a good feeling). I'm hear to teach and to learn.
As to respect, I've always returned what was offered in the manner of its
giving. If I've misinterpreted the intentions or actions of some, then I've
made some very human mistakes but generally my track record is pretty good.
The main thing that I know will happen is that in the long run, I'll still
be here and perhaps a little wiser. It'll be interesting to see who else is
here and who else is also wiser. Respect is a two-way street and my own view
of it is that everyone has my respect as a fellow human being if respect is
also given by them. Gods help those who lose respect (especially their
own).
Maybe I should have told you to read my messages more objectively? That'd
probably have been more effective in conveying my impression that you seem
to have a biased outlook. I'd be interested in knowing more about the parts
of my messages that seem haughty, dismissive or rude without also being a
response to the same sort of behavior.
Also, I know a lot that can be said and discussed about color traditions
among Druids and Celts but I have not yet offered it due primarily to a
desire to see others researching and presenting this same information. It
doesn't have to hinge on me as the sole source of information here. There
are others who could produce the info. Far be it from me to stifle honest
discussion about tradition or experience that can be related to tradition.
It'd be a welcome and refreshing change to see what others have discovered
or learned from or through tradition.
I'm not going to apologize for asking questions, nor will I ask forgiveness
for being rude in return to rude people. I do think much more can be
accomplished by being respectful of our time-honored and documented Druidic
traditions and what we can connect to those traditions.
Searles
"Luis Felipe Morales" <lu...@pacifica.edu> wrote in message
news:luis-09090...@192.168.1.10...
> In article <65ku5.14191$qL5....@news3.atl>, "Searles O'Dubhain"
> <odub...@mindspring.com> wrote:
<snip>
Carman
here
" I certainly hope that you are here for "discussion of the mysticism,
history, archeology, and literature of druids."
i doubt one can actively discuss those items, if one know nothing about them
i only ever heard the word 'druid' a cuppla times in my life
also is that all Druids are about all that old history stuff
or is it also about how that old history stuff relates to one living as
modern druid...in a world completely different from its origins and roots?
and given that therefore i (theoretically) know zilch about those topics
this might indeed be the incorrect ng for me to be in.
or
does one arrive and ask questions?
eeny meeny miney mo
oh i think I'll just go and read some websites and library books instead
although Daibhi and Lyn seem to be reasonable and knowledgable folk
thanks for your time
carman
Searles O'Dubhain <odub...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:p0Bu5.16227$qL5.1...@news3.atl...
Searles O'Dubhain
a Druid is can read the archives threads at http://www.deja.com/usenet and
then search on alt.religion.druid. By reading these threads a person can at
least know what has been said about Druids here on this list. To learn more
about Druids I recommend reading many, many books from book lists that are
provided by the established Druid groups such as O.B.O.D, A.D.F. and
Keltria. A person would also do well to go to a few of the Druids' home
URLs that post or posted on this list. TopazOwl's site is a great resource
for a beginning Druid or student of what Druids do. It's located at
http://www.dreamscape.com/topazowl/goldhors.htm. You can also ask questions
here and I expect they'll get a lot of answers. Mysticism is not an
exclusively ancient topic even if it is timeless and universal (at least
concerned with the secrets of the universe). Literature is also a very
modern as well as ancient art for, about, or by Druids. I don't see that
the "old history stuff" precludes discussing how things have changed in
today's world so long as we can associated and relate old and new. Isn't
that how we learn in any school?
Whether this newsgroup is right for you will ultimately be determined by
yourself and hopefully that determination will be based on a thorough,
objective and earnest investigation of its past and present as well as its
potential for the future.
Daibhaid and Lynn are excellent sources of knowledge and friendship. We'll
be sharing a brew and a story or two with them next weekend when they come
to visit Deborah and I (here in the Rocket City). I'm looking forward to
their visit very much. I hope you learn a lot from sharing with them.
Searles
"Carman" <ca...@wave.co.nz> wrote in message
news:8pess7$8pc$1...@news.wave.co.nz...
<snip>
Carman
thanks
in that case i shall be away from here for a few weeks
see you when i get back
carman
Searles O'Dubhain <odub...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:AvDu5.16507$qL5.1...@news3.atl...
Daibhi and Lyn
says...
> Luis, I read you message and your questions and even your comments. I don't
> see how questioning a post is viewed as being haughty? I see it as being
> inquiry. If I already know the answers to the questions that I've asked
> makes no difference to the answers that could have been given by Bear (or
> anyone else) but were not actually given until days later in an entirely
> different thread. If I have caused even one person to better understand the
> connection between experience and tradition by using the art of inquiry I am
> satisfied. I'm not here to run for office or even to be popular (though
> that'd also be a good feeling). I'm hear to teach and to learn.
The only serious problem wrong with this group is part is that there are
some, a few, who are jealous of any intelligensia, some who are negative
towards someone just because others are, and some that just are a bit
dense. To have to have an answer explained as many times as you have had
to....::Sigh:: Good work though. Keep teaching maybe then some of the
kiddies'll get the stones outta their ears.
Daibh
Daibhi and Lyn
> yes you are quite correct although i hasten to add, concerning this line
> here
> " I certainly hope that you are here for "discussion of the mysticism,
> history, archeology, and literature of druids."
>
> i doubt one can actively discuss those items, if one know nothing about them
> i only ever heard the word 'druid' a cuppla times in my life
> also is that all Druids are about all that old history stuff
> or is it also about how that old history stuff relates to one living as
> modern druid...in a world completely different from its origins and roots?
>
> and given that therefore i (theoretically) know zilch about those topics
> this might indeed be the incorrect ng for me to be in.
> or
> does one arrive and ask questions?
> eeny meeny miney mo
> oh i think I'll just go and read some websites and library books instead
> although Daibhi and Lyn seem to be reasonable and knowledgable folk
> thanks for your time
> carman
First thanks for the endorsement, second do leave, but do read a bit,
even if it is to look up a topic to get some base information on before
commenting. That would help a lot of folk and would also help formulate
your questions even better. To quote my father, "Ignorance is cureable."
:^) The cure can be put in your hands at a bookstore or libary.
Slan
Daibhaid
Daibhi and Lyn
> Daibhaid and Lynn are excellent sources of knowledge and friendship. We'll
> be sharing a brew and a story or two with them next weekend when they come
> to visit Deborah and I (here in the Rocket City). I'm looking forward to
> their visit very much. I hope you learn a lot from sharing with them.
>
> Searles
>
Daibhaid
heali...@my-deja.com
For those of you who wonder about this triad of questions, "real"
Druids do't try more than three times to get something accross to
someone who is acting obtusely. It keeps us from wasting our energy on
ire, from throttling each other, etc. Searles thinks I'm the dunce,
and I think he is, but we stand down. Hope you all learned something.
It's a neural processing difference between us ,I surmise, as we both
supposedly speak English and should get past the words at some point.
healingline
heali...@my-deja.com
I thought you were a guy with a car?)
this is a religion newsgroup and not an ethnicity newsgroup. We do a
"druid" way of worship but our genetics is from all over. Plus we are
located on each our own patches of soil all over the planet, which
necessarily colors our experiences of being "druid". I like very much
to hear you describing what is happening to you in NZ on your farm. A
farmer connects with the land in a way that many of us Druid types feel
is sacred.
Carman
> Yes carman, (BTW did you know that when I first say your screen name,
> I thought you were a guy with a car?)
yes i keep having that same problem
sometimes been hard to convince people otherwise
> this is a religion newsgroup and not an ethnicity newsgroup.
maybe I've been involved in too many ng's that are entrenched in ethnicity
debates
hard to break free i guess
Also, we live in a soc where various ethnicity issues are prominent, just
take a look at nz.politics, you'll get the picture.
It is quite pleasant to arrive in an ng where the celtic tradition is
apparently a shared experience.
I don't know much about the history of Europe, i'll read some Druid sites
over the next few weeks. Unlike the majority of kiwis, I have never felt a
'pull' to journey to England, although certainly Scotland, Isle of Mann and
Ireland are certainly of interest.
>We do a
> "druid" way of worship but our genetics is from all over. Plus we are
> located on each our own patches of soil all over the planet, which
> necessarily colors our experiences of being "druid".
hhhm ...?
i think i must be having a hangover from other ng's where people are clearly
rebuffed, ridiculed, ostracized and made the fool for asking questions or
taking even slightest interest in any form of 'worship' that is not their's
by 'birthright', or if one is from 'foreign' land.
Once i have read some necessary ng's and shaken of historic flack, it is
likely i'll have a clearer picture.
> I like very much
> to hear you describing what is happening to you in NZ on your farm.
well it's not exactly a farm, i think too small to be called a farm, more a
lifestyle block
>A
> farmer connects with the land in a way that many of us Druid types feel
> is sacred.
Thanks perhaps over time I'll sprinkle posts with the happenings.
carman
Carman
Daibhi and Lyn <dobr...@wherever.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.142403085...@news.earthlink.net...
> (snippers)
>
> >
> > Well i can see your point
> > and i'm wondering some parallel things
> > if the homeland of Druid is in the Celtic Isles
> > how can one be Druid in the US....?
> > or anywhere else for that matter?
>
> IF that argument is to hold true may I post a corrollary?
>
> IF Jerusalem is the home of the Jew, how can there be a Jew in the US? or
> anywhere else for that matter?
ae, agreed
but I would think it must surely be easier to be Jewish in Jerusalem, at the
root and homeland, where language and networks are strong.
I know it's easier for Maori to retain aspects of culture and community if
one lives close to Marae / tribal homeland meeting places.
Thanks for all the rest, I don't think we have groves and networks where I
am. Although we do have Scottish clan groups but i doubt they affiliate to
Druids. I think we have a lot of Dungeons and Dragons people
Maybe there's more of it in the Sth Island.
My father who is almost pure scots, welsh, isle of mann blend was saying
that as far as he is aware there aren't people here who speak any of those
languages and the Welsh language is especially at threat ...even in Wales.
It would indeed take firm resolve to learn a language such as those in
solitary fashion.
thanks, i'll think about this some more
carman
Daibhi and Lyn
> Druids do't try more than three times to get something accross to
> someone who is acting obtusely. It keeps us from wasting our energy on
> ire, from throttling each other, etc. Searles thinks I'm the dunce,
> and I think he is, but we stand down. Hope you all learned something.
>
> It's a neural processing difference between us ,I surmise, as we both
> supposedly speak English and should get past the words at some point.
>
> healingline
Excuse me healingline, but please do me the favour of not presuming of
what I may or may not do in regards to trying to explain to someone
anything.
Thanks,
Daibhaid (considered by some in these parts as trying to live up to the
practice of a "real" Druid. :^) )
Carman
This ng is the diabolically opposed opposite of most other ng's i have been
in and most belief i have been associated with.
Many people make fun of "bookreaders" saying that to learn true culture one
needs to be on site at the heart of the origin, especially where the culture
is based on oral tradition.
I agree with that notion, for example if one is to learn a language from a
book that is ok to some degree but for correct pronounciation and intonation
one needs to be near the native speakers, otherwise one just sounds stoopid.
Also in many oral traditions some of the most intimate knowledge has never
been set down in books. Therefore, to get a full understanding, it is
essential to have contact with the old people....well that's how it is where
i live.
But on the other hand, there is also lots of valuable and useful information
in books that have recorded some ideas that are not otherwise accessible
thru absence of immediate contact, or knowledge which perhaps has been
otherwise lost, especially when those books are written by the authentic,
original people.
So! if you think i am ignorant ( and thank you for pointing that out,
always helpful to know _exactly_ where one stands)
then perhaps it is because i have been raised in an entirely different
society/culture and with an entirely different world view.....which indeed
may not be as *cultured* as yours.
However in my own place of standing, i think I'm not considered to be
*ignorant* ....perhaps a bit 'nuts' and perhaps a bit eccentric...but then
most people i know and with whom i associate, would be considered that
way... by the masses and the perhaps even the *cultured*.
perhaps we're just a tad too primitive over here ?
For those having trouble connecting and "formulating" my questions....you
have my permission to consider me a challenge
and i shall do likewise.
thank you
carman
Daibhi and Lyn
>
> ae, agreed
> but I would think it must surely be easier to be Jewish in Jerusalem, at the
> root and homeland, where language and networks are strong.
> I know it's easier for Maori to retain aspects of culture and community if
> one lives close to Marae / tribal homeland meeting places.
This is a debate that has caused some of the hottest formentations of
fireworks to be hurled in a flame war on another email list. The "what or
who is Celt?" is a debate that is likened to politics. Should only be
discussed at ones own risk. :^)
Ok we risk some of this. ;^)
> Thanks for all the rest, I don't think we have groves and networks where I
> am. Although we do have Scottish clan groups but i doubt they affiliate to
> Druids. I think we have a lot of Dungeons and Dragons people
> Maybe there's more of it in the Sth Island.
Understood, we unfortunately have a lot of that here in the states,
though hard to tell isn't it. :^)
>
> My father who is almost pure scots, welsh, isle of mann blend was saying
> that as far as he is aware there aren't people here who speak any of those
> languages and the Welsh language is especially at threat ...even in Wales.
> It would indeed take firm resolve to learn a language such as those in
> solitary fashion.
I understand as well, I remember the "Welsh Not" as far inland as in
Donegal, don't know why. Possibly because of some of the industry nearby
was drawing some Welse folk up for employment. Anyway, even in Ireland
proper there was a movement for a while to try and wipe out the Irish
Gaedhlig from speech, now it's back to the opposite where it is being
taught in grades 1 > . At least it was when I last checked. I'm sure I'll
be corrected if I'm mistaken.
>
> thanks, i'll think about this some more
No problems, glad I could give you a bit to chew on and think over. :^)
Daibhaid
> carman
(snippers)
Daibhi and Lyn
the cited author.]
(snipped)
SH*TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH*TSH*T
I must remember to drink MORE tea before I write at that hour! I can't
believe the faux paux I made in the opening sentence and I was not
intending to. "Second do leave," should have read "second do NOT leave",
Oh god! I am so sorry about that one, I just managed to catch that and as
the saying goes once written cannot be smitten. But well can be
apologized for. And that's mine. As to the read, I support the oral trad
coupled with serious nature work as well. I've no problem with folk who
desire to go into the forest to commune, I do myself on many occasions,
however, I am diametrically opposed to those who think that this is the
only way to become a Draoi. While there are many paths, taking a path in
which one is leaving out the basic tenets of what makes up Draoicht and
the Draoi, is like leaving flour out when trying to make scones. It just
won't work. But then that's my opinion and not the rule. Though I guess
it comes off as well, it is. I apologize if I offend, it's not my style
and it is not my intent. As to being called ignorance, I was using that
as a definition not an insult and at least in my dictionary, ignorance is
basically just not knowing something regarding the subject matter. And
before you take too great offence, please take a moment and know that I'm
ignorant as there are many here the same on a great many subjects. There
are areas within Draoicht on which I will profess ignorance on,
therefore, I'm an suggesting that your level of ignorance/not knowing
would be within the area professed. It's no shame nor a crime. Again I
was not being insulting, if it came off that was, my sincere apologies. I
was trying only to help. And will try to help as I can.
Is mise le meas.
Daibhaid
heali...@my-deja.com
Sorry. But if you consult the available histories, you will find that
the practice has ancient precedents! I was trying to be "authentic"
for a change!!
peacepeacepeace healingline
Searles O'Dubhain
There's probably three levels of understanding to them as well. A rabbi
friend of mine who studies and practices Cabala tells me that the Torah has
these three levels of meaning in it as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see
such a phenomena be characteristic of many Indo-European influenced
traditions.
Searles
<heali...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8ph8ih$m9h$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
<snip>
Stacey
Jerusalem. Culturally it is too different from the U.S., I don't speak the
language though had to take classes while growing up, and have given up
practicing the religion as well. It just didn't "click." I guess there's
the bad seed in every group!
What do you do if you feel more akin to a culture and religious practice you
weren't born in to?
Stacey
Carman wrote in message <8pgthh$on1$1...@news.wave.co.nz>...
Steve
"Searles O'Dubhain" <odub...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:EUVu5.1427$XS1....@news2.atl...
> I think every good story should have three explanations, even a triad.
> There's probably three levels of understanding to them as well. A rabbi
> friend of mine who studies and practices Cabala tells me that the Torah
has
> these three levels of meaning in it as well. I wouldn't be surprised to
see
> such a phenomena be characteristic of many Indo-European influenced
> traditions.
>
> Searles
Searles, I'm not sure, but are you suggesting that Semites were
Indo-European?
Steve
Searles O'Dubhain
Middle East being a crossroads for civilizations. Abraham did come out of Ur
didn't he?
Searles
"Steve" <sed...@home.com> wrote in message
news:sH3v5.284437$8u4.2...@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com...
Kevin Jones
> Anyway, even in Ireland
> proper there was a movement for a while to try and wipe out the Irish
> Gaedhlig from speech, now it's back to the opposite where it is being
> taught in grades 1 > . At least it was when I last checked. I'm sure I'll
> be corrected if I'm mistaken.
Oh, there was a tussle over Gaelic going back to the early years of the Church
with the more Roman party wanting to get rid of Gaelic in favour of Latin. Mind
you, there was far more a drive to do that in Scotland after Protestantism was
established there. The elders and the 'good ministers' did there level best to
stamp out singing, dancing, story-telling and anything else that belonged to
traditional culture. If people didn't want to burn their instruments, the elders
and ministers did it or them.
Kevin
Carman
I think my response to the original remarks was likely overly sensitive,
due to my prominent lack of knowledge on the subject matter.
Also not knowing your nature and unsure of the intention behind the
comments.
However, comforting to know I'm not the only one who lacks knowledge on the
subject matter, although i am sure it is true to say I'm likely the least
knowledgable.
I think Searle's impressive book list might help to address matters,
although it's likely winter time would be the best time for serious
booklearning... after beekeeping season.
Blessings
carman
Daibhi and Lyn <dobr...@wherever.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1425da647...@news.earthlink.net...
Carman
Stacey <popp...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:eZYu5.2280$zC.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Though having been born a Jew I don't think I would feel at all at home in
> Jerusalem. Culturally it is too different from the U.S., I don't speak
the
> language though had to take classes while growing up, and have given up
> practicing the religion as well. It just didn't "click." I guess there's
> the bad seed in every group!
>
> What do you do if you feel more akin to a culture and religious practice
you
> weren't born in to?
>
> Stacey
I don't know..?
I'm trying to imagine it
I'll make up a scenario...based on actual fact
hehe
like in the movies
chinese might be a good example
because I'm not descended from that nationality
my best friend as a child was chinese (fact)
I wasn't drawn to her family's culture or religious practices...mainly we
just played (fact)
but we spent a lot of time with each others families.
if i was drawn to adopt their ways for my own, i guess i would have learnt
the language first....in fact i did ask her to teach me but we just never
got around to it. (fact).
If i was really really serious and the desire prevailed, into adulthood, to
participate in the Chinese culture, then i daresay i would have stayed very
close to their community.... and the language would most certainly have
taken a priority.
However, life gets busy .... and I didn't feel drawn to adopt that culture
as my own.
But i guess some of my time with them might have had some positive
influence.
Mostly the children of that family preferred to adopt European ways, but
that doesn't make them European, they were quite firm in their chinese
identity, even tho' they took on a lot of European ways.
So, if i take that example
then the answer is simple
hang close to the community....if accepted that is.
But even if i were to live in China and do everything the chinese way, i
still would not be Chinese, no matter how hard i tried, it's just a genetic
fact...... isn't it?
Surely it is not accurate to say one is an ethnicity when one isn't, or
doesn't have at least some ancestral connection.
what do you think?
carman
Carman
that i never thought of in original post
better get used to it
i have a bad habit of doing this
ps
i guess in this scenario one can adopt the Bhuddist ways and the Bhuddist
peoples are ok about that.....i think?
as far as i am aware Bhuddist beliefs are world wide
but one would still not be Chinese or Indian.
So maybe *there's* the connection.
one could maybe follow celtic *religions*...without being celtic?
I'm wandering 'round in circles here....just digging myself in deeper.
help ! (she squeals)
carman
HeyokaBear
> Surely it is not accurate to say one is an ethnicity when one isn't, or
> doesn't have at least some ancestral connection.
> what do you think?
> carman
>
> ps
> i guess in this scenario one can adopt the Bhuddist ways and the Bhuddist
> peoples are ok about that.....i think?
> as far as i am aware Bhuddist beliefs are world wide
> but one would still not be Chinese or Indian.
> So maybe *there's* the connection.
> one could maybe follow celtic *religions*...without being celtic?
> I'm wandering 'round in circles here....just digging myself in deeper.
> help ! (she squeals)
> carman
for me it's sufficient to say modern druidry is a spiritual path of celtic
heritage or origin. Although I do happen to be celtic by blood, many teachers
and teachings I have had were of other cultural origins. What brings them all
together, for me, is both my appreciation of the celtic world view and the
values of druidry as a spiritual path. To me, it's a universal path, defined by
it's values, that happens to be of celtic origin. I suspect I am in the
minority here. :)
peace
bear
--
==============================================================
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines
to reply remove one "x" from poboxx
==============================================================
Searles O'Dubhain
Australian Celts, Nova Scotia Celts and even Oriental Celts. If you embrace
the culture then you can be Celtic. Celts were generally European in terms
of genetics, but even this is not a hard and fast requirement. For
instance, the wife of The MacNeill is Chinese. This does not prevent her
from being a Celt and a Gael (and Chinese). Typically, Celtic culture is
defined by family relationships, spirituality, language, custom, art, craft,
codes of honor, and laws. In the Celtic cultures of the past, a person had a
variety of ways to establish an identity within society. These were
through:
1. Birth
2. Marriage
3. Fosterage
3. Adoption
5. Clientship
6. Alliance
7. Achievement
I see no reason why a person in modern times can't join a Celtic/Druidic
group through one of the above methods. It was also considered that where
blood was important to any matter, a blood oath would be sufficient to
sealing the bond. This means that a person can become a blood member
through a sharing of blood. This is the basis for forming alliances and
sealing marriages by drinking and swearing oaths through blood. I don't
think that it's absolutely necessary to hold to such an ancient way of
forming bonds in modern society, though my preference is so to do. A word of
caution should be given here that any sharing of bodily fluids (such as
blood) in modern society also has a greater risk of transmitted viruses,
SIDS and even HIV.
Searles
"Carman" <ca...@wave.co.nz> wrote in message
news:8pl47v$qiv$1...@news.wave.co.nz...
<snip>
>
> I don't know..?
> I'm trying to imagine it
> I'll make up a scenario...based on actual fact
> hehe
> like in the movies
> chinese might be a good example
> because I'm not descended from that nationality
<snip>
lu...@pacifica.edu
know you by your postings here and at your Summerlands home, so (even
considering the volume and depth of what I've read of yours) it's not much
to go on, in trying to understand a personality.
I've been trying to communicate something -- now, two things -- to you:
first, that I thought your response to Bear's initial post on colors had
the look, to me, of the work of a man who's just been poked in his
prejudices and doesn't feel like considering those prejudices too closely
-- instead, he employs satiric wit, like a rapier (or sgian if you will)
to cut back at the one who poked him, unnecessarily, I thought.
Second, I'd like you to know that I see that subtle satiric blade just
under the surface of several things you've written -- you often don't seem
satisfied with making a point without it has a cutting edge, too. I saw it
at least once in this last post-- I've marked it below--
> As to respect, I've always returned what was offered in the manner of its
> giving. If I've misinterpreted the intentions or actions of some, then I've
> made some very human mistakes but generally my track record is pretty good.
> The main thing that I know will happen is that in the long run, I'll still
> be here and perhaps a little wiser. It'll be interesting to see who else is
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> here and who else is also wiser. Respect is a two-way street and my own view
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> of it is that everyone has my respect as a fellow human being if respect is
> also given by them. Gods help those who lose respect (especially their
> own).
Well, anyway, this my second point has to do with comments like that one
-- these that look to me to be little backhand smacks at your detractors,
or maybe at the NG at large.
I do appreciate your interest in being notified of rude comments that are
not also self-defensive. My newsreader deletes messages that have been
read but I guess if I'm going to find any such, I'll have a good chance
during tonight's reading. If not, then I'll just let the matter drop.
To end this post, I guess I'll tender my apology to you, elder brother,
for that you saw my posts as biased, and, earlier, that you saw them as
indicative of my not having read your posts thoroughly. May it not be so
in the future.
--Luis
lu...@pacifica.edu
others are? Or a bit dense? Stones in my ears? Never! Wax, certainly, but
only in the mornings.
Funny though, this post looks like a baby duck walking in lockstep with
its mother, to me ...
hmph.
--Luis
Searles O'Dubhain
Thank you for your comments and for expressing your impressions of my style
of communication. It is true that I do not enjoy being attacked or harshly
criticized. I'm certain that I no more enjoy the stubbornness of others
than they enjoy my own stubbornness. I do however believe very strongly in
the rightness of my views and the research and reasoning behind them. I try
very hard not to let the negative emotions that some of the messages bring
to me get amplified and returned. In this effort I am not always perfect
and for that I do humbly apologize. Lately, I've found that reading the
words of Druids and Seers has been a great calming comfort in my efforts to
be civil to some who I really don't think want to be civil at all. I could
be judging their words and the intent behind them too harshly. If time
shows this to be true, then I will also apologize to each individual
personally.
My comments to Bear on his colors were supposed to communicate to him how
far removed from tradition (and anything we know about Druids from history)
that his attempts at assigning their correlations to Druid rankings and
categories seemed to me. I believe that at the end of that discussion he
also realized this. If my questions to him seemed like I was poked in my
own prejudices then I apologize for my lack of skill in suggesting that his
attempt at assigning colors seemed way of base and completely without
meaning with respect to existing Celtic and Druidic traditions. I'm not
really certain how treasuring what has been left behind about colors from
the insular Celtic writings is a prejudice but I'm certain from your email
that my attempts at expressing myself must have missed their mark as well.
Searles
<lu...@pacifica.edu> wrote in message
news:luis-12090...@192.168.1.232...
IBpixie
Daibhi and Lyn wrote:
>
I'd rather be following someone with the brains to
> function and wit to critique, and temperment to reply as the mother duck
> does than someone who doen't do any of the following.
> Daibh
hmm.. i do understand what you are saying in this BUT ..
as a matter of personal choice, i do not follow anyone but place my
steps on the path before me as i am called to do.. learning lessons from
all i meet.. the good, the bad, and the ugly (if i could do music in
this format i would.. )
May you stand in the Grove under sweet light
pix
Daibhi and Lyn
> > As to respect, I've always returned what was offered in the manner of its
> > giving. If I've misinterpreted the intentions or actions of some, then I've
> > made some very human mistakes but generally my track record is pretty good.
> > The main thing that I know will happen is that in the long run, I'll still
> > be here and perhaps a little wiser. It'll be interesting to see who else is
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > here and who else is also wiser. Respect is a two-way street and my own view
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > of it is that everyone has my respect as a fellow human being if respect is
> > also given by them. Gods help those who lose respect (especially their
> > own).
Maybe it's too early for me to be reading such however, all I see is that
he was pointing out that he would be interested to see who is here and
has learned something. With all the flame flying recently, that's not an
untoward request.
>
> Well, anyway, this my second point has to do with comments like that one
> -- these that look to me to be little backhand smacks at your detractors,
> or maybe at the NG at large.
You DO have the right to disagree and pointed if that be the case as this
is not a moderated group.
> I do appreciate your interest in being notified of rude comments that are
> not also self-defensive. My newsreader deletes messages that have been
> read but I guess if I'm going to find any such, I'll have a good chance
> during tonight's reading. If not, then I'll just let the matter drop.
Try www.deja.com to track messages you've lost.
Daibhaid
Daibhi and Lyn
says...
> Ah now Daibh, which am I? Jealous of intelligentsia? Negative because
> others are? Or a bit dense? Stones in my ears? Never! Wax, certainly, but
> only in the mornings.
>
> Funny though, this post looks like a baby duck walking in lockstep with
> its mother, to me ...
>
> hmph.
>
> --Luis
Good question, which do you consider yourself or do you consider yourself
in any of the above? Considering a percentage of posts here have served
in trying to draw someone to the firing line, and we know whom that
someone, and while I know he is perfectly capable if not moreso of
defending himself, I get pissed off at the sight of someone, ANYONE, who
is so taunted. Any who basically cannot debate a persons post without
attacking the person, are only discredit and dishonour themselves. If
this sounds like a baby duck in lockstep, then I will accept your insult
as a compliment. I'd rather be following someone with the brains to
function and wit to critique, and temperment to reply as the mother duck
does than someone who doen't do any of the following.
Quack!
Daibh
heali...@my-deja.com
Just a little interjection: Searles has indeed a bias! but let us
call it a choice, to try for orthodoxy, to find the way of the
ancestors and follow it. Bear and many others have their bias too, to
find the way of the spirit as led by the land with which one connects,
and faithfully portray it. If you look at Bear's website, at his
artworks, you will gain the better understanding of the approach of
Bear. If you look at Summerlands, you will better understand the
approach of Searles. (If you go to the nearest tree and engage it in
earnest dialog, you will better understand the approach of healingline
to my local trees)
heali...@my-deja.com
Blood!! Yecch!!
healingline, MA CTFT etc
Daibhi and Lyn
says...
>
>
> Daibhi and Lyn wrote:
> >
> I'd rather be following someone with the brains to
> > function and wit to critique, and temperment to reply as the mother duck
> > does than someone who doen't do any of the following.
>
> hmm.. i do understand what you are saying in this BUT ..
> as a matter of personal choice, i do not follow anyone but place my
> steps on the path before me as i am called to do.. learning lessons from
> all i meet.. the good, the bad, and the ugly (if i could do music in
> this format i would.. )
>
> May you stand in the Grove under sweet light
>
> pix
>
I understand your preference, I just believe that we should look for
imbas fornosai (sp?) wherever I may find it. Of course I recall a well
worn service motto: "Lead, Follow, or get the Hell outta my way!" :^)
May the light you see and the light your seek provide you with the imbas
and An Soilsiú.
Daibh
Steve
> I'm suggesting that their mythology is Indo-European *influenced* due to
the
> Middle East being a crossroads for civilizations. Abraham did come out of
Ur
> didn't he?
>
> Searles
>
Let's reverse it and say that the mythology of the IE's are influenced by
Semetic cultures and civilizations? What do you think?
Steve
Searles O'Dubhain
influences on one another.
Searles
"Steve" <sed...@home.com> wrote in message
news:De3w5.299066$8u4.3...@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com...
>
> "Searles O'Dubhain" <odub...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:HA4v5.3623$%p.1...@news1.atl...
> > I'm suggesting that their mythology is Indo-European *influenced* due to
> the
> > Middle East being a crossroads for civilizations. Abraham did come out
of
> Ur
> > didn't he?
> >
> > Searles
> >
>
IBpixie
it isnt a preference so much as a need i feel deep in my soul... so "get
the hell out of my way" seems to be the best of it i guess.. i do not
choose to lead or to follow.. merely to walk my path, in accompaniment
with others at times and at others solitary from other walkers.. if in
that shared path one takes lead in something according to talents
gifted, then so much the better for we all have different gifts and
expressions of them.. and all share and learn in some capacity always
there is a precept burned deep into me.. though i do not remember the
source or exact quote and cannot find the book it is listed in at this
time (it's in a "safe place" grin)
Listen carefully to all people
Even the dull and ignorant
For they too have their story.
and another from the Rubyait (copy of which is also in a safe place so
the lines are not direct quote )
I sent my soul into the infinite,some measure of the afterlife to spell,
and by and by my soul returned to me saying
I myself am heaven and hell.
pix
Carman
Funny you should mention that....it relates in a way to my original story
about our association with our chinese friends.
I'd forgotten completely about this until having read your story of the
sharing of blood....thanks.
I recall when i was about 10, my brother decided he and my chinese
friend's brother should become 'blood brothers'.
I don't know where they got the idea from, they'd seen it on tv or read it
in a book or something, they were both about 8 years old.
So they held a wee ritual and i don't recall all the details but i recall it
involved pricking the thumbs and then tying their thumbs together.
It was all very serious....but i think back it was ever so cute.
I am thus blessed with the memory.
So, i guess there is some chinese in our family after all and some celtic
in the family of our friends.
carman