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Jim

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Sep 17, 2007, 1:15:13 PM9/17/07

I am only right for me!!!!

When I was initiated into modern Druidry in the mid eighties, my teacher,
one Glen Mc Donaghue
instructed me that the Order that he was a part of called themselves Druids,
while all along admitting to any and all that they just modeled themselves
on what the thought the ancient Druids might have thought and done.

I bought into his teachings hook. line and sinker.

Some reflection on the ethics of calling ourselves Druids is in my opinion
not such a bad idea.

When ol charlie comes on and says a Druid is this and that and goes on about
truth, I just shake my head and smile.

Who is charlie or anyone else including myself to say what real Druids or
real Druidry is all about?

Jim

aine

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Sep 17, 2007, 1:28:17 PM9/17/07

Same goes for anything I suppose. Am I a Witch like my Ancestors.
Little was written.

We farm differently then way back, we still call ourselves Farmers.

Catholics practice differently, They are still Catholics.

I suppose you mean because the Druid Race ended and the was revived? I
am not so sure it ever ended and if Druids taught and initiated people
back then it would generate more Druids into the now.

For me, it came down to realizing that I could never possibly meet
every soul or follow into the Caves and teaching of the Old to say
with 100% certainty..Druidry ever really stopped existing.

If I cannot say the Druid Race was killed off with certainty, I cannot
say none of us are actual Druids with certainty. Law dictates that,
doesn't it?

Jim

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Sep 17, 2007, 1:43:14 PM9/17/07

"aine" <aine_n...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1190050097.8...@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

I think that anyone who is comfortable going out in public and saying "I am
a Druid", should do so.

Few if any on ARD ever stop to think that only a scant handfull of "Druids"
ever post here.

There has to be some sort of message there.

Just a thought.

Jim

Mairtin O'Druachain

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Sep 17, 2007, 4:14:14 PM9/17/07

On Sep 17, 6:43 pm, "Jim" <stonelo...@softcom.net> wrote:
> "aine" <aine_nicne...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

That's the way we do it in Ireland, though we do not "preach
religion". I have no time for churches or religion.

Mairtin O'Druachain

unread,

Sep 18, 2007, 7:22:14 AM9/18/07

On Sep 17, 6:43 pm, "Jim" <stonelo...@softcom.net> wrote:

> "aine" <aine_nicne...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

Don't know about Anericans, but many Irish Druids do not own a
conputer (out of choice) - I know one Druid couple who will not even
allow electricity into their home !

And those Irish Druids who do own a computer will not post.

I know another Druid who will not even read a letter that arrives by
snail mail for him.

Jim

unread,

Sep 18, 2007, 12:40:14 PM9/18/07

"Mairtin O'Druachain" <Drui...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1190114534.8...@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...

He may be the smartest of us all.

:-)

root

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Sep 18, 2007, 2:42:50 PM9/18/07

The logical conclusion is that 'real druidry', if it exists, cannot go
public, not yet.

golwg

Matthew (4/6)

Jim

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Sep 18, 2007, 3:52:39 PM9/18/07

"root" <matthe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1190140970.5...@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...

HaHa!

Mairtin O'Druachain

unread,

Sep 18, 2007, 4:13:29 PM9/18/07

On Sep 18, 8:52 pm, "Jim" <stonelo...@softcom.net> wrote:
> "root" <matthew149...@gmail.com> wrote in message

And why mot ?

root

unread,

Sep 19, 2007, 3:29:50 AM9/19/07

You'll have to ask a 'real druid', again if such a thing exists ;)

golwg

Matthew

Nik

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Sep 19, 2007, 6:25:49 AM9/19/07

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:42:50 -0700, root <matthe...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sep 17, 6:15 pm, "Jim" <stonelo...@softcom.net> wrote:
>> I am only right for me!!!!
>>
>> When I was initiated into modern Druidry in the mid eighties, my teacher,
>> one Glen Mc Donaghue
>> instructed me that the Order that he was a part of called themselves Druids,
>> while all along admitting to any and all that they just modeled themselves
>> on what the thought the ancient Druids might have thought and done.

That sounds a fair position.

>> I bought into his teachings hook. line and sinker.
>>
>> Some reflection on the ethics of calling ourselves Druids is in my opinion
>> not such a bad idea.
>>
>> When ol charlie comes on and says a Druid is this and that and goes on about
>> truth, I just shake my head and smile.
>>
>> Who is charlie or anyone else including myself to say what real Druids or
>> real Druidry is all about?

I must say though, that I have found 'Charlie' to be quite reliable.

Nik

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Jim

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Sep 19, 2007, 7:02:56 PM9/19/07

"Mairtin O'Druachain" <Drui...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1190146409.7...@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...

So your curiosity would make you ask "why mot"

Jim

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Sep 19, 2007, 7:04:48 PM9/19/07

"root" <matthe...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1190186990.0...@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

Ayeeeee! Your too good Matthew.

no no no no no no no no no no yes!

Jim

1X2Willows

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Sep 19, 2007, 7:46:04 PM9/19/07

"Jim" <stone...@softcom.net> wrote in message
news:wq6dnXwRZ8pcN2zb...@softcom.net...

Have pity.
There are bats around.

root

unread,

Sep 20, 2007, 3:00:39 AM9/20/07

On Sep 20, 12:46 am, "1X2Willows" <spambuc...@euro-celts.dot.com>
wrote:
> "Jim" <stonelo...@softcom.net> wrote in message
>
> news:wq6dnXwRZ8pcN2zb...@softcom.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Mairtin O'Druachain" <DruidE...@gmail.com> wrote in message

Yeah, like the opening credits of a Scooby-Doo cartoon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-HOyx_FH4E

hehehehe

golwg

Matthew

Mairtin O'Druachain

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Sep 20, 2007, 7:16:35 AM9/20/07

That position suits you as you don't seem to know much.

root

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Sep 20, 2007, 7:28:55 AM9/20/07

On Sep 20, 12:16 pm, Mairtin O'Druachain <DruidE...@cablenet.ie>
wrote:

I know almost nothing.

golwg

Matthew

Mairtin O'Druachain

unread,

Sep 20, 2007, 9:01:38 AM9/20/07

And it shows. You prefer to be "a hurler on a ditch".

root

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Sep 20, 2007, 9:09:14 AM9/20/07

At last, someone finally believes me!

> You prefer to be "a hurler on a ditch".

Sorry, I don't understand the reference.

golwg

Matthew

Jim

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Sep 20, 2007, 9:27:00 AM9/20/07

"root" <matthe...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1190287735.2...@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...

Can we agree that "Druidry" is not quite ready for prime time????

root

unread,

Sep 20, 2007, 9:30:24 AM9/20/07

On Sep 20, 2:27 pm, "Jim" <stonelo...@softcom.net> wrote:
> "root" <matthew149...@gmail.com> wrote in message

How should I know?

golwg

Matthew (4/6)

Jim

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Sep 20, 2007, 9:37:27 AM9/20/07

"root" <matthe...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1190295024.1...@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

Reading ARD should give you a clue!

root

unread,

Sep 20, 2007, 9:44:45 AM9/20/07

OK, "Druidry" is not ready for primetime, and the primetime audience
is not ready for "Druidry".

golwg

Matthew

Mairtin O'Druachain

unread,

Sep 20, 2007, 10:05:56 AM9/20/07

The ancient Irish game of hurling, the national sport. A "hurler on
the ditch" is a Know-All watching a game, full of his own opinions,
but reluctant to play, to take part in the action, himself.

root

unread,

Sep 20, 2007, 10:18:21 AM9/20/07

Like all English soccer fans that think they can do the manager's job,
and Welsh rugby fans that know how to make it all work better on the
pitch?

I see what you're getting at, but I'm not quite like that.

I am happy for those involved to get on with it as they see fit.
I am not a know-all, but I do have my own opinions, but I understand
that they are just that, just opinions.
I voice my opinions occasionally, but I do not set out to convince
anyone that my thinking is the right way for them. I rarely argue.

golwg

Matthew

Kevin

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Sep 20, 2007, 10:59:29 AM9/20/07

> Matthew- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

It needs more sex and violence. :-D Reality TV plus sacrificing
virgins at the crossroads? That do it? :-D

Kevin

Jim

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Sep 20, 2007, 11:16:06 AM9/20/07

"root" <matthe...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1190295885....@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...

Well said!!!!

Your words illustrate my feelings regarding not wanting to be seen as " one
of those people".

This is not to say that all modern Druids are shameful, anything but!!!

However there sure are some crossthreaded wingnuts out there.

I do have a gut feeling however. I feel things are about to turn positive.

Jim

:-)

Kevin

unread,

Sep 20, 2007, 11:21:44 AM9/20/07

> Matthew- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

OK, I'd go with that. Mind you, I've never been happy with the idea of
a primetime audience anyway. :-/

Kevin

Jim

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Sep 20, 2007, 11:59:42 AM9/20/07

"Kevin" <laig...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1190301704.4...@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...

I watched the movie "Chocolat" again last evening. Just this morning I was
thinking how the Pop or prime time audience would not really relate to it.

I see Druidry similarly, in that there is a very popular version and then
there
are the less attractive to the common consciousness manifestations.

Jim

Kevin

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Sep 20, 2007, 12:12:43 PM9/20/07

On 20 Sep, 16:59, "Jim" <stonelo...@softcom.net> wrote:
> "Kevin" <laighl...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message

> Jim- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Sounds about right. It would be pretty impossible to make my tradition
into a mass consumption article without causing it serious damage, and
thus making it into something very different. It's not even worth
consideration.

I rather liked Amelie. :-)

Kevin

root

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Sep 20, 2007, 1:19:02 PM9/20/07

I dunno, but I think something cheesy along the lines of suckering to
popular environmental concerns would work really well.

golwg

Matthew

Jim

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Sep 20, 2007, 1:18:32 PM9/20/07

"Kevin" <laig...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message

news:1190304763.1...@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...

Interesting how a town can change. Did you pickup on the town priest and the
Gypsy tinker both being Irish?

Unless I have it all wrong, pop modern Druidry is simply a paraphrasing of
Christianity.

Kevin

unread,

Sep 20, 2007, 3:16:57 PM9/20/07

In Chocolat? Haven't seen it yet.

> Unless I have it all wrong, pop modern Druidry is simply a paraphrasing of

> Christianity.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Most of what I've seen offering itself as druidry or druidism - in
orders or out of them - leaves me cold. The oldest seems to be a New
Age working of what started out as Freemasonry with a Celtic tinge,
whilst the worst is so fluffy and New Age that it will never fill your
stomach, but the sugar content will rot your teeth. Was reading
something the other day where the argument revolved around whether or
not one should wear a sword for rituals case one frightened the
fairies away. versus it looking impressive for the Press. Trust me,
there are much much worse out there, and in some cases the collective
IQ can drop to the smallest individual size in shoes. On occasions,
they've imported the Rede - I have actually told someone before now
that a Rede is what a dyslexic druid uses to thatch his roof, and they
got all upset at my nastiness. ]:-) Then there's the "Well, the druids
all got wiped out, so nobody knows what they taught or believed, so I
can do whatever I want, you can't prove that it's not druidism, and
it's my right to call it what I like!" Cue waving a 'Celtic'
dreamcatcher around, and Isis rubbing shoulders with the Dagda in a
very odd construction. <boggle!>

However, this is out on the fluffy bunny extremes of wiccans deciding
that they're druids and telling you that you're doing it all wrong.
There's rather a lot of them about. :-/ I suspect that someone should
call Rentokil. ]:-D The Orders that I've run across casually don't
seem to quite as bad - though some boggle me by saying that you can be
a Christian and a druid. Well, sure I take the point about it being a
philosophy, but from my POV even the philosophy is antithetical to
Christianity. At the very least, you're going to be an heretic in the
Pelagian mould. About the only way the philosophy could be compatible
is if you violently hammered Christianity out of shape, or you adopted
a philosophy compatible with Christianity, in which case it is just
Christianity with funny gods.

Anyway, from what little I've seen of Orders, I still wouldn't join
them. Not even if you paid me. They can go one way, and I'll go the
other.

As for the loopy end, it seems to me to be Christianity Lite without
any of that patriarchal nonsense, without ten commandments telling you
what to do, and some bossy old geezer sitting on a cloud watching you.
Just put on a nightdress, apply a little knotwork, invent yourself a
faux-Irish or faux-Welsh name [preferably one that translates as
"blithering idiot" :-) for other folks' amusement], blather on
witlessly about Lugh, write very bad poetry, and there you go -
instant druid! :-)

Actually the not-so-loopy end tends to be like that as well - just not
quite as obviously potty.

Odd thing - many pagans I've run across seem to be running from
Christianity, rather than running to something. Of course, they want
something familiar but different to fetch up with.

Kevin

Mairtin O'Druachain

unread,

Sep 20, 2007, 3:28:40 PM9/20/07

I am Druid. I am none of the things you jest about, there are many
more that I know of my brother and sister Druids like me. And,
funnily, out in circle in the grove, in practice Druidry works.

It will never work out on your keyboard, in your armchair, or even in
your head.

Druidry works in out everyday lives. Druid works out on the Land too,
when sometimes the sunset becomes the face of God.

Mairtin O'Druachain

unread,

Sep 20, 2007, 3:39:16 PM9/20/07

On Sep 20, 8:16 pm, Kevin <laighl...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Bury the differences and work on the similarities, Christianity is
doing that all the time.

It did so on the Conversion of Ireland, for instance, and the borders,
the edges of Christianity are becomong more and more blurred.

Get out there and talk to Bishops, Priests and Ministers, I have
found, surprisingly, that some of them listen.

But, Get out there, preferably together with a Circle of Friends.

Jim

unread,

Sep 20, 2007, 5:16:04 PM9/20/07

"Kevin" <laig...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message

news:1190315817.5...@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

Geeze I thought my take on it all was rough!!! :-)

>
> However, this is out on the fluffy bunny extremes of wiccans deciding
> that they're druids and telling you that you're doing it all wrong.
> There's rather a lot of them about. :-/ I suspect that someone should
> call Rentokil. ]:-D The Orders that I've run across casually don't
> seem to quite as bad - though some boggle me by saying that you can be
> a Christian and a druid. Well, sure I take the point about it being a
> philosophy, but from my POV even the philosophy is antithetical to
> Christianity. At the very least, you're going to be an heretic in the
> Pelagian mould. About the only way the philosophy could be compatible
> is if you violently hammered Christianity out of shape, or you adopted
> a philosophy compatible with Christianity, in which case it is just
> Christianity with funny gods.

EXACTLY

>
> Anyway, from what little I've seen of Orders, I still wouldn't join
> them. Not even if you paid me. They can go one way, and I'll go the
> other.

I wish things could get to where it was otherwise. I don't see Masonry as
one bit better however.

>
> As for the loopy end, it seems to me to be Christianity Lite without
> any of that patriarchal nonsense, without ten commandments telling you
> what to do, and some bossy old geezer sitting on a cloud watching you.
> Just put on a nightdress, apply a little knotwork, invent yourself a
> faux-Irish or faux-Welsh name [preferably one that translates as
> "blithering idiot" :-) for other folks' amusement], blather on
> witlessly about Lugh, write very bad poetry, and there you go -
> instant druid! :-)

There around!!!!

>
> Actually the not-so-loopy end tends to be like that as well - just not
> quite as obviously potty.
>
> Odd thing - many pagans I've run across seem to be running from
> Christianity, rather than running to something. Of course, they want
> something familiar but different to fetch up with.

Many on this side of the pond call Druid-ism something for recovering
Christians
or folks rebelling against their parents. More of a sociopathic expression
than anything else.

As I have always said, I do not know any answers or the truth.

>
> Kevin
>

Jim

unread,

Sep 20, 2007, 5:17:40 PM9/20/07

"Mairtin O'Druachain" <Drui...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1190316520.1...@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...

Aw come on your a hard core Culdee and you know it.

Jim

Kevin

unread,

Sep 20, 2007, 5:19:29 PM9/20/07

"root" <matthe...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1190308742.8...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

Already been done. :-)

Kevin

unread,

Sep 20, 2007, 5:39:40 PM9/20/07

"Jim" <stone...@softcom.net> wrote in message

news:-OCdnYcwbearfm_b...@softcom.net...

>
> "Kevin" <laig...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1190315817.5...@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

>> Most of what I've seen offering itself as druidry or druidism - in

>> orders or out of them - leaves me cold. The oldest seems to be a New
>> Age working of what started out as Freemasonry with a Celtic tinge,
>> whilst the worst is so fluffy and New Age that it will never fill your
>> stomach, but the sugar content will rot your teeth. Was reading
>> something the other day where the argument revolved around whether or
>> not one should wear a sword for rituals case one frightened the
>> fairies away. versus it looking impressive for the Press. Trust me,
>> there are much much worse out there, and in some cases the collective
>> IQ can drop to the smallest individual size in shoes. On occasions,
>> they've imported the Rede - I have actually told someone before now
>> that a Rede is what a dyslexic druid uses to thatch his roof, and they
>> got all upset at my nastiness. ]:-) Then there's the "Well, the druids
>> all got wiped out, so nobody knows what they taught or believed, so I
>> can do whatever I want, you can't prove that it's not druidism, and
>> it's my right to call it what I like!" Cue waving a 'Celtic'
>> dreamcatcher around, and Isis rubbing shoulders with the Dagda in a
>> very odd construction. <boggle!>
>
> Geeze I thought my take on it all was rough!!! :-)

The loonies started coming out of the woodwork here some time in the late
80s-early 90s. Since then - well, the above is a good description of what
I've run into. Most of it fuelled by folks reading a Llewellyn book and/or
swallowing the line that wicca is simply the female side of druidism. Yup!
I've heard that argued. :-/

Actually if you want to wade through piles of crap, just enter the terms
"Celtic pagain", "druid", "druidism", or any related terms into Google. :-(

>> However, this is out on the fluffy bunny extremes of wiccans deciding
>> that they're druids and telling you that you're doing it all wrong.
>> There's rather a lot of them about. :-/ I suspect that someone should
>> call Rentokil. ]:-D The Orders that I've run across casually don't
>> seem to quite as bad - though some boggle me by saying that you can be
>> a Christian and a druid. Well, sure I take the point about it being a
>> philosophy, but from my POV even the philosophy is antithetical to
>> Christianity. At the very least, you're going to be an heretic in the
>> Pelagian mould. About the only way the philosophy could be compatible
>> is if you violently hammered Christianity out of shape, or you adopted
>> a philosophy compatible with Christianity, in which case it is just
>> Christianity with funny gods.
>
> EXACTLY

:-)

>> Anyway, from what little I've seen of Orders, I still wouldn't join
>> them. Not even if you paid me. They can go one way, and I'll go the
>> other.
>
> I wish things could get to where it was otherwise. I don't see Masonry as
> one bit better however.

Nope - nothing against the Masons, and masonic or masonic-style
organisations were behind the development of ritual magic and esoteric
thought, but these days they largely have nothing to do with anything
esoteric, and in any case, it was a sort of esoteric Christianity.

Personally I don't think I'm missing out by not joining an order. I'm quite
happy developing the trad I learnt. I could spend my whole life doing that -
or several lifetimes - and still not be done. It's not just philosophising -
I'm not gone on philosophising in a vacuum. There's a very pragmatic,
practical side to it as well. You might say that the philosophising is about
how to go about things, and the practical results yield more to think on.
:-)

>> As for the loopy end, it seems to me to be Christianity Lite without
>> any of that patriarchal nonsense, without ten commandments telling you
>> what to do, and some bossy old geezer sitting on a cloud watching you.
>> Just put on a nightdress, apply a little knotwork, invent yourself a
>> faux-Irish or faux-Welsh name [preferably one that translates as
>> "blithering idiot" :-) for other folks' amusement], blather on
>> witlessly about Lugh, write very bad poetry, and there you go -
>> instant druid! :-)
>
> There around!!!!

I know - and one guy did actually manage to chose as his "magical druidic
name" something along the lines of "blithering idiot" in Welsh. :-D

> Many on this side of the pond call Druid-ism something for recovering
> Christians
> or folks rebelling against their parents. More of a sociopathic expression
> than anything else.

I think that's often true over here.

Kevin

Jim

unread,

Sep 20, 2007, 5:53:35 PM9/20/07

"Kevin" <laig...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message

news:fcupc8$umf$2...@aioe.org...

Again, right on.

>
> Actually if you want to wade through piles of crap, just enter the terms
> "Celtic pagain", "druid", "druidism", or any related terms into Google.
> :-(

My take on it all as well. Wish it were different.

As I have said so many times before, the Order I belong to call themselves
Druids
but are in fact not Druids at all, but more of an antiquerian folklorist
bunch who
still do the Bonfire Days/Nights. More of a lifestyle than anything else.

>
>>> As for the loopy end, it seems to me to be Christianity Lite without
>>> any of that patriarchal nonsense, without ten commandments telling you
>>> what to do, and some bossy old geezer sitting on a cloud watching you.
>>> Just put on a nightdress, apply a little knotwork, invent yourself a
>>> faux-Irish or faux-Welsh name [preferably one that translates as
>>> "blithering idiot" :-) for other folks' amusement], blather on
>>> witlessly about Lugh, write very bad poetry, and there you go -
>>> instant druid! :-)
>>
>> There around!!!!
>
> I know - and one guy did actually manage to chose as his "magical druidic
> name" something along the lines of "blithering idiot" in Welsh. :-D
>
>> Many on this side of the pond call Druid-ism something for recovering
>> Christians
>> or folks rebelling against their parents. More of a sociopathic
>> expression than anything else.
>
> I think that's often true over here.

Except for here on ARD, I keep a real low profile.

>
> Kevin
>

Kevin

unread,

Sep 20, 2007, 6:03:57 PM9/20/07

"Jim" <stone...@softcom.net> wrote in message

news:Re2dnX5tMb-ccW_b...@softcom.net...

>
> "Kevin" <laig...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:fcupc8$umf$2...@aioe.org...

>> Actually if you want to wade through piles of crap, just enter the terms

>> "Celtic pagain", "druid", "druidism", or any related terms into Google.
>> :-(
>
> My take on it all as well. Wish it were different.

Ah, I'd guess that it's a fashion for some, maybe many.

>>> Many on this side of the pond call Druid-ism something for recovering
>>> Christians
>>> or folks rebelling against their parents. More of a sociopathic
>>> expression than anything else.
>>
>> I think that's often true over here.
>
> Except for here on ARD, I keep a real low profile.

I'm not exactly high profile myself, though that's more the case that as far
as most folk are concerned, it's not relevant to the job in hand.

Kevin
>> Kevin
>>
>
>

Jim

unread,

Sep 20, 2007, 6:15:11 PM9/20/07

"Kevin" <laig...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message

news:fcuqpo$2h1$1...@aioe.org...

Same here plus the Calvinistic mind set that is everywhere these days.

>
> Kevin
>>> Kevin
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Kevin

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Sep 20, 2007, 6:22:00 PM9/20/07

"Jim" <stone...@softcom.net> wrote in message

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Can't say that I run into too many Calvinists. :-) Last cleric I ran into
was C of E - though he told me I'd burn in Hell. :-) And a very good day to
him as well. :-)

Kevin

Jim

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Sep 20, 2007, 6:42:17 PM9/20/07

"Kevin" <laig...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message

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The idiots they threw out of old England have thrived here as hard core
fundamentalist protestants.

I have a neighbor who just thought the world of me till the day I told him I
was not a Christian.

He is a Pentecostal and an out and out criminal.

But once I said I was not a Christian he has avoided me like the plague.

:-) Jim
.

Mairtin O'Druachain

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Sep 20, 2007, 11:45:05 PM9/20/07

I accept what you say. I do feel that your remarks, especially about
white robes, are inaccurate. You are not the only one. I think I know
almost every Irish Druid, met most of them on one occasion or another,
saw them wear everything from suits to feathers, mostly earth-coloured
robes that some of them have changed to recently. Only one I know
wears white. At the foundation of the ODI - I was a Founder -
Archdruid McGrath publicly critised in writing in our founding article
in "Common Ground" magazine, Oct/Nov issue 1995, "the wearing of
bedsheets" which drew a response from The Hon. Olivia Durdin Robinson,
Huntingdon Cadtle, Clonegal, Ireland of the F.O.I. amongst others. Our
founders Sandy Leigh and Anrai O'Raghallaigh were equally critical of
white robes.

I remember a "fashion" established itself whereby Druid Diviners of
the ODI wote their short pendulum around their necks like a necklace,
even while in Civvies.

OBOD brought the wearing of white robes to a fine art with the wearing
of beautifully cut silk robes, and, even white shoes, and most,
through not all, British Druid Orders copies this. Together with some
sort of an egyptian patriarchal head-dress. And if you join the Army
you wore the uniform in the case of British Druid Orders who are very
regimented.

OBOD even has their Ovates in green tabards and their Bard Grade in
blue, still the case I believe. And any decorations are allowed to be
worn according to grade or rank.

No such thing exists or ever existed in Irish Druidry. From time to
time Archdruid Michael McGrath wore gold, wine andd green-blue robes,
encouraged every one of us to be Individual, and a cloth capped crown
which was not a kingly thing as it has been made out to be for
propaganda purposes. And he did always wear, as most of us do, a suit,
collar and tie under his robes so as to discourage the ubiquitous
denim jeans crew at ceremony, feeling that a special effort should be
made in personal appearance for the High Days and the High Times, and
this has proved in practice to be successful and good.

Seamus MacCraith another ODI Founder, came out with the statement that
every Druid should display the magnificence of his/her calling as
Druid to the world in the excellence of his outer appearance Another
Druid wore and wears his doctoral robes which is quite acceptable.

Even those few the ODI is critical of, and vice-versa, never wore
white robes, which is almost unknown in Ireland, in ancient or modern
times.

These remarks are meant to be helpful to those Druids deciding upon
founding their own Groves or Orders.

"Solitaries" are usually known as, or usually declare themselves as
"Druids of Locality" and then do actually turn up for ceremonial at
Tara etc to join in for the day. And Druids turn up from all over the
world, especially from the U.S.A., Australia, Canada, M.Z.,, U.K.,
France, Belgium, Brittany, Switzerland etc. All in their own costumes,
reflecting usually something of their nationality, their country,
their origins, their roots !

We have even had Princess Mariam Askala and her five children,
descendants of the Ethiopian Royal Family, actually lead Ceremonial on
Tara on a Midsummer Day. We've had Wiccans, Buddhists, and Asatru too,
come and join in.

And this lasted at Tara until the last couple of years when
difficulties developed and people, including the ODI, decided to stay
away en masse.

But a lot has been achieved in Ireland since the Foundation of the
ODI, actually back in 1992, and we estimate that about 5,000 people
have been introduced to Druidry over those years.

If we had to stay at home and agonize over what Druidry is or is not,
none of this would have happened.

And Philip Carr-Gomm it was who finally formulated what Druidry
consists of, his books are really helpful towards this whatever about
the OBOD course.

"The Tree of Druidry has many branches", he declared. That statement
enables us all to get together no matter what Druidry may mean to each
of us personally.

And enjoy the Day.

Mairtin O'Druachain

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Sep 20, 2007, 11:49:21 PM9/20/07

Common Ground magazine, edition October/November 1993 for ODI Founding
Article.

Mairtin O'Druachain

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Sep 21, 2007, 1:02:28 AM9/21/07

I accept that the situation in California is different to the
situation in Ireland, where we have our own problems which are not
primarily about what Druidry is about, rather one of personalities,
and an ongoing plot now much more subtle by wiccan Druids to control
Irish Druidry.

Many of us stay with the ODI that revived Druidry in Ireland, "The
Traditionals", others going with a new Wiccan-based Druidry that
manifested itself in Ireland over the past five years as you've seen
here. Among the Wiccan Druids of "The Brigidine Order" I include Gina
McGarry and Melvyn Lloyd.

The Traditionals are still led by Archdruid Michael McGrath the
Reviver. And we are Headquartered in and around Kilkenny and the South
of Ireland, Dublin too, rather than Tara, and do not consist solely of
the ODI.

"The Brigidines" made an attempt to subsume the ODI, when they failed
to defeat it, to love it to death, which backlashed on them. They just
might be able to call more numbers together, if they stopped bickering
amongst themselves (there are 4000 Wiccan followers in Ireland) - BUT
it is through the Person of Archdruid Michael McGrath that the massive
majority of the Irish People actually recognise Irish Druids and
Druidry, as does the entirety of British Druidry too (outside of OBOD
that has its alliances with The Brigidines).

The Brigidines are, in fact, slowly evolving into Druids, having cast
off and cast away their Wiccan origins and founders, and the ODI
actively encourages this.

The Brigidines actually go back to, and have a common origin in
Wiccans who claimed to be part of some invented "Druidic Order of St.
Brigid" that was founded by leading Wiccans in a hurry to take on
Archdruid McGrath and the ODI ten years ago back in 1997.

The entire leadership of the Brigidines are English ex-pats in
Ireland, some of them here for 20 and even 30 years - these have
retired from the field and gone back to Wicca.

We the Traditionals remain unbowed. And while the ODI and CoBDO remain
committed to Save Tara, and do all we can in every way we can to this
end, we refuse to commit even one Druid of our vast reserves, and our
veterans of Newbury Bypass and Stonehenge Battles, to the frontline of
the M3 protest - because we have not been invited by the Leaders of
the Lay Campaigns , such as Vincent Salafia and Dr. Muireann ni
Bhrolchain to do so.

We do not go in anywhere uninvited, and, in any case, the Keepers of
the Sacred Fire at the Vigil Tepee on Tara, who are not answerable to
any of the Canpaign lay leaderships, who are not beholden to anybody,
say it all for the Traditional Druids of Ireland.

And the ODI has a policy of non-confrontation with the Forces of Law
and Order, feeling in particular that the Garda tied down there in the
Tara - Scryne Valley are desperately needed to combat violent crime
in the cities and towns of Ireland.

The ODI has taken up the Cause of Tara in the media and with the
politicians right from the start, and will continue to press the
desirability for am M3 route change, by peaceful and spiritual
means.

Mairtin O'Druachain
Leas Ard Drui Eireann.

root

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Sep 21, 2007, 2:01:16 AM9/21/07

You are most probably spot on. I know nothing about Irish druidry at
all.
When I made the 'white robes' comment, I had in mind all the stuff I
have actually seen on the pagan scene in the UK down in Wiltshire.
They are a motley crue.

> You are not the only one.

Maybe I'm a dreamer.

I think it's a good thing for folks who share some common interest to
get together, have a bit of fun, and share ideas and stories.
Nothing wrong with that IMO ;)

golwg

Matthew

Mairtin O'Druachain

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Sep 21, 2007, 2:11:50 AM9/21/07

On Sep 20, 10:17 pm, "Jim" <stonelo...@softcom.net> wrote:
> "Mairtin O'Druachain" <DruidE...@gmail.com> wrote in message

It WORKS ! Found your NRDO, go out in the Land with them and you'll
find out. Work on the pieces that fit together in practice, in the
Working, and forget the rest - you can come back on them later.

Druidry does not consist in being anti-Roman, anti-Church, anti-Islam,
anti-Establishment, anti-Bush, or anti-Anything Else: that's what
limits so many good people who decide to set up their own Druidry.

Do your own thing, well-founded, well thought-out, and it should work
out better than anything - but DO take the Good Bits from Everybody
Else.

The Catholic Church in Ireland, its greatest stronghold , is finished,
hardly anybody under fifty goes to Sunday Mass anymore.

Paganism never got off the ground here, a few dozen adherents, that's
all, it's too primitive, the Myth of the Noble Savage etc does not
wash anymore. So they're turning Leftist Militant.

Druidry was never Primitive. It was ever much more.

Younger People are, foolishly, more interested on having Heaven on
Earth in the Here and Now.

They're having a good stab at it, though.....

Message has been deleted

syncCininandy

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Aug 3, 2008, 10:23:01 PM8/3/08

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syncCininandy

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Aug 18, 2008, 2:18:15 PM8/18/08

Archdruid Michael McGrath of Ireland

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Aug 18, 2008, 2:18:45 PM8/18/08

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syncCininandy

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